 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 1108, 10 February 2025 |
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Welcome to this year's 6th issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
Different Linux distributions often run many of the same applications and use the same technologies, but how well do they co-exist on the same hard drive? Can they share the same storage devices, such as swap space? In this week's Questions and Answers column we talk about whether Linux distributions can share swap space and whether there are any risks to using one swap partition across multiple operating systems. In our News section we talk about Peppermint OS trying out a new base using the Void distribution. We also share news that GTK is removing support for legacy technologies while Alpine Linux is seeking a new host for the project's infrastructure. TrueNAS is merging its CORE and SCALE branches into one Linux-based edition and we share details below. We also talk about Red Hat's plans to include more AI tools in the Fedora distribution. What do you think about AI image generators, chat bots, and coding assistants being included in Fedora? Let us know your opinions in this week's Opinion Poll. Before we get into that, we take quick looks at two young projects, the innovative Serpent OS project and an atomic distribution in the Fedora family called Aurora. Read on to learn what these projects offer. Then we're pleased to share the releases of the past week and list the torrents we are seeding. We wish you all a wonderful week and happy reading!
This week's DistroWatch Weekly is presented by TUXEDO Computers.
Content:
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| Feature Story (By Jesse Smith) |
Serpent OS 0.24.6
A few weeks ago a colleague messaged me and asked about my opinion on Serpent OS, an independent distribution with its own package manager, atomic updates, and a series of optimizations. Unfortunately, it had been two years since my last experiment with Serpent, so I wasn't in a good position to offer insights into the distribution. As a coincidence, the project's creator messaged me that same week and said they'd recently published a new alpha snapshot and the project was coming along well. Maybe it was time to take another look at the project and take Serpent off our waiting list?
Serpent OS is an independent distribution and the project's website offers highlights of its design:
- Built from the ground up with performance in mind, featuring optimized compilation settings and efficient system architecture.
- Atomic updates and stateless design. Atomic updates without reboots.
- Our atomic package manager [moss] swaps the entire /usr directory during system updates, ensuring a stateless, bulletproof upgrade process. Updates either succeed completely or not at all.
- Modern desktop experience with sane defaults and thoughtful integration, making Linux accessible without compromising on power.
Serpent offers a GNOME edition only, though the documentation reports we can install the COSMIC desktop as an alternative. On the subject of documentation, there isn't much. There are some instructions for downloading and writing Serpent OS to removable media, but that's about it. I didn't find anything about installing the distribution or using the project's new package manager.
Serpent runs on x86_64 only and requires the host machine boots with UEFI enabled. I downloaded the project's ISO file which is 1.6GB in size.
I tried several times to get Serpent OS to boot on my laptop. However, the distribution didn't start up, didn't show any error messages, or any status messages at all. After the UEFI boot screen the display would go blank and nothing would happen. This is virtually identical to my experience from two years ago. The distribution also didn't boot in VirtualBox, which I tried in order to rule out hardware incompatibilities.
The project may have made progress in the past two years on its custom package manager and atomic approach, but the basics - such as booting and providing documentation - remain missing. To be fair to Serpent OS, the project is still labelled as being in its alpha development phase. Hopefully the missing pieces are put into place as the distribution progresses toward its beta and stable releases.
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Aurora
Let's move on from an independent project in its alpha stage to a young project which is based on Fedora and is declaring itself "stable". I'm talking about Aurora, which is based on Fedora's Kinoite. It's an immutable distribution featuring cutting edge software in its base and using a combination of containers and Flatpak bundles to provide desktop applications. So what is the difference between Aurora and its parent?
Vanilla Kinoite is a very stock experience. Aurora includes many enhancements and tweaks, like included drivers for various printers, network adapters, game controllers and more as well as included codecs. Aurora also features tweaks to enhance your battery life on a laptop.
The project's website also goes on to say Aurora features a "lightly customized KDE Plasma" and that the distribution only needs to be installed once: "The system only has to be installed once. Updates of your apps and the system [are] handled in the background for you."
Aurora 2025 -- The application menu
(full image size: 1.6MB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
The distribution's website also makes brief mention of a few additional technologies, Warehouse for Flatpak management and something called Starship which runs in the terminal. An application called BoxBuddy for managing containers is also referenced. None of these technologies are discussed at length or explained on the website, but it got me interested enough to have a look around.
Aurora's download page is interactive and asks us for the model of our laptop or desktop computer, which GPU our system runs, and whether we want to install the regular or Developer edition. I really don't like this approach of having different ISO files for different hardware (of the same architecture). It means if someone either doesn't know which graphics card they use, or they have multiple computers with different cards, they will need to download multiple ISO files. This is just awkward. Most distributions simply include multiple GPU drivers in one ISO file. One might assume the Aurora project is trying to save space in the ISO archive, but this seems unlikely since the download (with just one set of GPU drivers) is a massive 6.5GB in size. This is about double what other mainstream Linux distributions require when they ship all possible driver combinations.
I'd also like to note the ISO doesn't have a version number in its filename, or a GPU tag. The filename is simply aurora-stable.iso. This further inconveniences users who are downloading multiple copies as they need to rename each one to something like aurora-stable-nvidia.iso and aurora-stable-intel.iso to keep track of which is which.
It probably feels like I'm harping on small issues with Aurora at the start of this review rather than summarizing important issues at the end, but one more thing which bothered me at the beginning of my trial was a lack of documentation. There is a site set up for Aurora's documentation, but it's very minimal. It would have been nice to at least learn a little bit about the project's main features, the bits which set it apart from Fedora's Kinoite edition. These are all minor complaints, but first impressions are important and Aurora was not off to a good start.
Installing
Booting from the Aurora media jumps us straight into the Anaconda system installer. There is no live desktop session to help us test the distribution with our hardware. Anaconda sometimes identifies the distribution as being Fedora, other times the system is referred to as Aurora. Anaconda offers us a hub screen where we can click on modules which help us configure the operating system. There is a hub for picking our timezone, another for setting up a user account, and another for choosing the keyboard layout. There are also modules for connecting to a network and partitioning the disk. I've mentioned before that I'm not a fan of Anaconda's awkward disk partition manager, but for people who just want to dive into the distribution there is a guided approach which will take over the whole disk and set up a Btrfs volume for us.
Anaconda completed its configuration steps, successfully copied the operating system to my hard drive, and offered to restart the computer.
Early impressions
My new copy of Aurora booted to a graphical login screen. We have one session option: KDE Plasma 6 which is running on Wayland. There is no X11 session as a fallback.
The desktop presents us with a dark theme by default. A thick panel is placed across the bottom of the screen. This panel holds our application menu, task switcher, and system tray. It also floats slightly above the bottom of the screen in a questionable use of screen real estate. There are no welcome windows or first-run configuration wizards in Aurora. We are given the Plasma desktop and the system gets out of the way so we can explore or get to work.
Plasma offers average performance, it's neither snappy or laggy. The desktop has a minimal amount of visual effects and mostly stays out of the way. The exception being the lock screen which kicks in after five minutes of inactivity. This can be changed in the desktop's System Settings panel.
Hardware
When running Aurora in a VirtualBox environment the distribution ran well. Performance was average, the system was stable, and the desktop dynamically adjusted its resolution to match the virtual machine window.
When I was testing Aurora on my laptop the experience was mostly good. My wireless network card was detected, audio worked out of the box, and the system was fairly responsive. My touchpad detected taps as clicks.
I ran into one issue with the installer when setting up Aurora on my laptop. When I clicked the button to connect to a local wireless network, Anaconda popped up a window which listed networks close to me. I tried double-clicking network names and then tried selecting a network followed by pressing Enter. Nothing happened in either care. There were no buttons or other controls in the window along with the network names. After a minute I realized what had happened was the list of network names was quite long and the window listing the networks had expanded downward - extending off the bottom of the screen rather than introducing a scrollbar. It's not possible for the user to resize the window which lists available networks and I couldn't get it to rise far enough up the screen to reveal the Ok or Connect button at the bottom of the window. Eventually, I managed to get Anaconda to connect by selecting my network and then typing Alt+O (for Ok or Connect) and proceeded.
Aurora 2025 -- The Dolphin file manager
(full image size: 2.2MB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
Once installed, Aurora took up about 12GB of disk space, which is unusually large, about 50% bigger than most mainstream Linux distributions. The project also used a lot of RAM, about 1.5GB (1,500MB) which is quite large by Linux standards. A lot of this is due to Plasma 6 which requires about twice as much RAM as its predecessor, Plasma 5.
Included software
The Aurora distribution does not ship with many desktop applications and several of the ones it does offer are installed as Flatpak bundles. Looking through the application menu we find the Firefox web browser, Thunderbird, KDE Connect, and the Haruna media player. Aurora includes codecs for playing audio and video files, though sometimes video elements would not show up in the Haruna player. I could hear the audio tracks from videos, but about half the time there would be no images from the video. During the other half the videos played well. What made this more unusual was the same video would sometimes fail to work and other times would play perfectly. When I switched from using Haruna to VLC all videos played properly.
Exploring the application menu further, we're given a document viewer and an image viewer along with a contact manager. There is a utility for managing the firewall and the Dolphin file manager. The KDE System Settings panel is included to configure the desktop environment and the KDE Help documentation is provided.
There are some less common applications too such as the ptyxis virtual terminal, BoxBuddy for managing containers, and Flatseal for tweaking the sandbox settings of Flatpak bundles. There are a few text editors and the Pika Backup utility.
In the background we find the GNU command line utilities, the GNU Compiler Collection, and manual pages. The distribution uses the systemd init software and runs version 6.11 of the Linux kernel.
As I mentioned above, several of the included applications are offered through Flatpak bundles. The image viewer, clock, contact manager, document viewer, e-mail client, and Firefox are all installed as Flatpak packages.
Software management
There are a lot of different approaches to managing software packages on Aurora and there is a bit of overlap across some of the tools. Let's start with Discover, the KDE software centre. Discover is a modern software centre which provides a list of categories down the left side of the window along with buttons for accessing updates and settings. Over on the right we find applications in the selected category or search results. We can click on an application icon to bring up a description of the software and install new items with a single click. Discover does not ask us for a password when installing packages. Discover pulls in software from firmware repositories and Flathub only, it does not handle RPM packages on Aurora.
Aurora 2025 -- The Discover software centre
(full image size: 1.3MB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
Aurora includes a second software centre, called Warehouse, which is geared toward managing Flatpak bundles and Flatpak repositories. The application begins by showing us a list of installed Flatpaks and it provides buttons to either launch a selected application or remove the highlighted bundle. I found by clicking on a small box icon in the upper-left corner I could see options for exploring other options. For example, one screen would allow me to add new Flatpak repositories. Another screen would let me select a Flatpak repository and then perform searches for items in that repository.
Warehouse works, but its interface is slower and it takes more steps to burrow down through the options to find and install software. For example, to fetch VLC, I'd need to click the box icon, select the install option, select the Flathub repository, search for "vlc", click the application I wanted, then click install. When using Discover I could just type "vlc" into the search box and then click the Install button next to the VLC entry which appeared.
Aurora 2025 -- Fetching packages with Warehouse
(full image size: 2.0MB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
I found Warehouse processed actions in batches. We can select multiple items to install, but while Warehouse is fetching new bundles it locks its interface. This is in contrast to Discover where we can continue to browse and install items while Discover is fetching new packages.
Aurora ships with Brew, a command line utility for working with Homebrew. Homebrew is mostly used on macOS in order to expand its software offerings, but it can work on Linux too. I didn't use Brew during my trial as it seemed redundant with all the other, more commonly used Linux software sources.
When new Flatpak updates are available an icon appears in the Plasma system tray. Clicking this icon opens the Discover software centre and selects the Update tab. This screen displays a list of available Flatpak updates we can select and install.
Aurora 2025 -- Running the System Update tool
(full image size: 2.7MB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
Next there is a System Update launcher in the application menu. Clicking this icon opens a terminal window where we are asked for our sudo password. Then a bunch of text scrolls by and we are asked if we want to quit, open a shell, or reboot the system. It's hard to tell exactly what is going on in this window. It looks as though the System Update tool is checking for Flatpak, Brew, and system image updates and fetching them. However, the text doesn't explicitly say what steps are being performed. The output seems to indicate all updates are then installed, but I also sometimes saw warnings about out of date Flatpak bundles persisting on the system. It's hard to tell from the output if these are abandoned Flatpaks no longer receiving updates or items which are not being handled by the System Update utility.
While not exactly a software management tool, I feel BoxBuddy is somewhat related to the various package managers. BoxBuddy is a friendly, desktop application which makes it easy to set up and access Linux containers. When we launch BoxBuddy we can click a Plus (+) icon to make a new container which will contain a minimal installation of a Linux distribution. We can then select which distro we want to fetch from a long list. There are dozens of entries with options ranging from Arch Linux to Void with lots of options in between such as Fedora and AlmaLinux OS. In most cases there are multiple versions of each distribution. Once we select a distribution the container is created and the new distribution fetched. When the process completes we are given a terminal window which is running a shell inside the container. BoxBuddy also creates a launcher in the application menu which will open a terminal inside the container for us.
Aurora 2025 -- Setting up a new container with BoxBuddy
(full image size: 2.1MB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
Once a BoxBuddy container has been created we can use it to run tasks, install traditional Linux packages, and run desktop applications. Any desktop programs run from the container show up on the host's desktop. The containers share our home directory so that any files we create on the host or need to access from inside the container are present.
I really like BoxBuddy. There are a lot of container managers out there, but most of them are offered as command line tools. There are not a lot of great point-and-click container solutions and I liked how simple BoxBuddy is to use.
Other observations
I think that's all of the software managers available to us. Next, I'd like to share some other observations about Aurora. The distribution uses an immutable filesystem for the root and /usr directories. Files under /etc can be altered in order to adjust configuration information and /var is writable as it is where logs, cache, and home directories are kept. (Home directories are stored under /var/home.)
The Aurora website mentions something called Starship which runs in the terminal. I was curious about this and I think what the website is talking about is a combination of a minimal shell prompt and a greeting message which appears when we open a terminal. The welcome message tells us we can use the brew command to manage command line packages (from the Homebrew repository). We're also told we can run a program called ujust to perform some common actions.
I had not used ujust previously. This tool is a sort of convenience tool or system manager which seems to be geared toward developers. Some of the actions ujust can help us perform include setting up containers, enabling the Cockpit admin panel, and installing system updates. There are more actions and most of them seem to be simple (if lengthy) commands that ujust can trigger using short commands, similar to using shell aliases.
Conclusions
At the start of this review I mentioned a number of issues I have with Aurora. Things like a lack of documentation, multiple ISO files, unusually large ISO files, a lack of a live desktop environment for testing, and not a lot of descriptive writing about the distribution's special features. I also ran into a few minor issues with the Anaconda installer.
With all of this said, once Aurora was installed and running, the experience was mostly good. The distribution appears to be trying to make it easier for Linux enthusiasts, experienced desktop users, and developers to access more tools faster. These goals are, in my opinion, accomplished. While Aurora is a bit of a pain to set up (much like its parent), once it is running it offers some nice conveniences, such as enabling Flathub inside Discover, BoxBuddy, Brew and shortcuts like ujust.
I wouldn't say there is a big difference (yet) between running Fedora Kinoite and using Aurora, but there are some little improvements, some nice shortcuts, and quicker access to more software.
Aurora is still a young distribution and I feel it hasn't really come all the way into its distinct form at this time. However, it is introducing some nice tools for developers and I especially appreciate the BoxBuddy container manager which facilitates setting up test environments.
* * * * *
Hardware used in this review
My physical test equipment for this review was an HP DY2048CA laptop with the following
specifications:
- Processor: 11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-1135G7 @ 2.40GHz
- Display: Intel integrated video
- Storage: Western Digital 512GB solid state drive
- Memory: 8GB of RAM
- Wireless network device: Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX201 + BT Wireless network card
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
Peppermint tries Void base, GTK removing legacy technologies, Red Hat plans to put more AI tools in Fedora, TrueNAS merging CORE and SCALE, Alpine seeks new host
The Peppermint OS project has published a blog post in which the team unveils plans for the 2025 calendar year. Two of the key elements are preparing for Debian 13 "Trixie" as an updated base and experimenting with Void as an alternative core: "A few months ago, we started to incorporate a Void base into our build pipelines. While testing has generally yielded positive results, we're working on the challenges that come with a true rolling release. Rest assured, all our builds, regardless of the base, maintain the consistent look and feel of our main releases, featuring the Xfce desktop environment. Although we don't have a PepVoid release yet, it's a project we're actively developing. With Debian Trixie on the horizon, we've been conducting thorough tests to prepare for its stable release. We're excited about the possibilities this new version brings and are working to ensure a smooth transition."
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The GTK software is used to build desktop application and, even complete desktop environments. GTK is the basis of the GNOME desktop as well as many desktop applications built for Linux (along with some other platforms).There are plans to streamline GTK and drop support for older platforms and technologies in GTK version 5: "The old GL renderer has been removed. This may be unwelcome news for people stuck on very old drivers and hardware. But we will continue to make the new renderers work as well as possible on the hardware that they can support. The X11 and Broadway backends have been deprecated, as a clear signal that we intend to remove them in the GTK 5. In the meantime, they continue to be available. We have also deprecated GtkShortcutsWindow, since it needs a new design. The replacement will appear in libadwaita, hopefully next cycle." The What's News in GTK report goes on to mention support for older versions of Windows (prior to Windows 10) will also be dropped.
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Christian Schaller has published a blog post in which he talks about new changes coming to the Fedora distribution and related technologies. The post highlights work going into a wide range of projects, including Flatpak, Wayland, GNOME Software, and Firefox. Schaller also touches on hopes for getting more AI-related tools into Fedora. "One big item on our list for the year is looking at ways Fedora Workstation can make use of artificial intelligence. Thanks to IBM's Granite effort we now have an AI engine that is available under proper open source licensing terms and which can be extended for many different usecases. Also the IBM Granite team has an aggressive plan for releasing updated versions of Granite, incorporating new features of special interest to developers, like making Granite a great engine to power IDEs and similar tools. We been brainstorming various ideas in the team for how we can make use of AI to provide improved or new features to users of GNOME and Fedora Workstation. This includes making sure Fedora Workstation users have access to great tools like RamaLama, that we make sure setting up accelerated AI inside Toolbx is simple, that we offer a good Code Assistant based on Granite and that we come up with other cool integration points."
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The TrueNAS team have announced plans to merge two of the project's branches - CORE, the original FreeBSD-based platform; and SCALE, the Debian-based platform. Going forward TrueNAS will offer a Community Edition branch which will replace both of the previous editions. "The Fangtooth is a deep sea fish with two outsized teeth, the largest of any ocean fish in proportion to their body. It's also the code name for the next version of TrueNAS, the successor to the very successful TrueNAS Electric Eel. For TrueNAS, the two teeth of the Fangtooth fish represent CORE and SCALE, combining together with the goal of unifying both CORE and SCALE versions into the common TrueNAS Community Edition (CE). TrueNAS Fangtooth will be an upgrade for both SCALE 24.10 and CORE 13.x users, introducing new features for both Community and Enterprise users." The Community Edition will be based on Linux. Details on the new edition and a list of new features can be found in the project's blog post.
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Some of our readers may be familiar with Equinix, a company which provides digital infrastructure and hosting. Even if you are not familiar with the company, you've probably heard of a few of the open source projects which are hosted on their infrastructure: Alpine Linux and freedesktop.org. The latter maintains many projects such as X.Org, Wayland, PulseAudio, and PipeWire. Unfortunately, for these projects, Equinix is ending their hosting agreement. A post on the Alpine website explains: "We are deeply grateful to Equinix Metal (formerly Packet.net) for their longstanding support, which has been essential to Alpine Linux's ecosystem. However, with Equinix sunsetting their bare-metal hosting service, this critical support will soon end. Their contributions have been invaluable, and we thank them for helping keep Alpine Linux reliable and efficient. This change poses a significant challenge, as it impacts key infrastructure hosted with Equinix. To ensure continuity, we must now find alternative hosting solutions." The freedesktop.org website shares a similar statement.
Both projects require many terabytes (TB) of disk space and hundreds of terabytes of bandwidth per month and are putting together migration plans while asking for donations from their respective communities. It's a common scenario in the open source world, where projects used on millions of computers struggle to raise enough funds to keep their servers running.
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Sharing swap space between distributions
Sharing-is-caring asks: Is it possible to share swap space between multiple distros? Is it safe?
DistroWatch answers: Yes, it is possible to share the same swap partition across Linux distributions. Whichever distribution is running will keep track of where it writes data to the swap partition and ignore anything else in the swap space. Assuming each distribution is only running one at a time and you're not sharing a swap partition between two operating systems running in parallel, perhaps on virtual machines, there will be no problems with two distributions sharing the same swap space.
The question asked if sharing a swap partition is safe and I'm guessing the concern is with information leaking out from one operating system to another. This could happen, but it can happen whether the operating systems are sharing the same swap partition or if they're using separate swap partitions. Whichever operating system is running has full access to your hardware, meaning data written to one distro's swap partition can be read by another distro.
Let's say you have one trusted distribution (called Distro A) and one distribution with untrusted software running on it (Distro B). When Distro A is running it might write sensitive information, such as a password, to swap space. When Distro B runs, a malicious program could scan the swap partition and find the password. This is true whether the two distributions share the same swap space or not. Any partition connected to the computer will be visible to both distributions and therefore still vulnerable to malicious programs running on Distro B.
If you're concerned about one distribution reading and compromising security by reading data left in your swap space, you can detach the swap partition and wipe it clean just before you shutdown your computer. Let's look at an example.
First, we need to determine on which partition our swap space is located. We can do this with the swapon command:
$ swapon -s
| Filename | Type | Size | Used | Priority |
| /dev/sda2 |
partition | 2047996 | 2816 | -2 |
In this example we discover the swap partition is located at /dev/sda2. We will detach this swap partition with the swapoff command:
$ sudo swapoff /dev/sda2
Finally, we overwrite the swap partition (sda2 in this example) with random data. We can do this with the dd command:
$ sudo dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sda2
At this point, if we restart the computer, whichever distribution we boot will not be able to see what was previously written to the swap partition.
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Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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| Released Last Week |
PorteuX 1.9
PorteuX is a Linux distribution based on Slackware Linux, inspired by Slax and Porteus. The project's latest snapshot is PorteuX 1.9 which fixes a number of issues, adds CUPS supports to GTK3, and updates the kernel to version 6.13.1. The release announcement offers the details: "Fixed x265 encoding not working; fixed procps applications not displaying their own versions; fixed minor Xfce 4.20 issues that haven't been released upstream; improved support to some network devices; improved 0050-multilib-lite stripping; improved GCC build flags to include additional optimizations; added GPT compatibility to the Linux installer; added Docker support; added CUPS support to GTK+ 3; moved expat package from 002-gui to 001-core to fix network when booting only with 001-core; removed from 002-gui: fuse; removed from 002-xtra: mp4v2; updated Linux kernel to 6.13.1; updated NVIDIA driver to 570.86.16; updated Cinnamon to 6.4.6 (current only); updated GNOME to 47.3 (current only)...."
Univention Corporate Server 5.2-0
Univention Corporate Server is an enterprise-class distribution based on Debian GNU/Linux. The company's latest release is Univention Corproate Server (UCS) 5.2-0. Some of the highlights of the new version focus on single sign-on and block list filters: "The central interface to the local system configuration Univention Config Registry (UCR) checks and validates input values now according to the type stored. This avoids errors before they occur. The validation can also be deactivated if necessary. Single sign-on & Single logout now enable conditional authentication flows (e.g. B. by network areas) and secure on-boarding and offboarding processes through OpenID Connect & SAML. Massive time savings for IT administrators in the configuration of the Active Directory Connection with new ones Allow and Deny filters for tailor-made synchronization. Block lists for attributes in the Univention Directory Manager (UDM) prevent the entry of incorrect data such as the use of already assigned mail addresses." Additional information can be found in the release announcement and in the release notes.
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 3,154
- Total data uploaded: 46.5TB
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) |
Distributions with AI tools included
In our News section this week we talked about Red Hat looking for more ways to integrate AI functions into GNOME and the Fedora distribution. The focus appears to be on coding, but also presenting users with more ways to interact with AI models.
What do you think of this move? Would you welcome AI chat bots, coding assistants, and similar tools into your distribution?
You can see the results of our previous poll on trying the Orbitiny desktop in our previous edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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Would you welcome new AI tools into your distribution?
| Yes - install assistants by default: | 81 (3%) |
| Yes - but only as an add-on: | 505 (17%) |
| No - I do not want AI models in my OS: | 2429 (81%) |
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| Website News |
New projects added to database
iodéOS
iodéOS is an Android-based operating system (in the LineageOS family) which ships without Google trackers or proprietary applications. iodéOS monitors, in real-time, connection attempts from your apps and allows you to see the identities of all recipients and the quantity of data they wish to collect, block (if you want) malicious recipients (advertisements, malwares, spams, statistics & trackers), and measure how privacy-respectful your apps are.
iodeOS 6.0 -- The home screen running Trebuchet
(full image size: 620kB, resolution: 1080x2400 pixels)
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New distributions added to waiting list
- Shebang. Shebang is an Artix GNU/Linux-based distribution offering. Shebang uses the Openbox window manager and ships with a wide range of media playing packages.
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DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 17 February 2025. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Weekly Archive and Article Search pages. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • No AI-based OS (by Tixouney on 2025-02-10 01:34:56 GMT from France)
Beyond the pro/con AI debate, I object that AI (as any other heavy tool) should ever be integrated at OS level.
I don't use AI at all, I'm not against it (mostly because the AI domain is very broad), it can surely be useful for many application (like video and photo editing, and development) but it should be implemented per application, using an optional package, as much as possible.
On course, I'm talking about *nix, because some big OSes have already plagued users with beta tools (aka AI), and it's much too late to hope anything good from them again ;)
2 • Would you welcome new AI tools into your distribution? (by WYSIWYG on 2025-02-10 01:51:40 GMT from United States)
If I wanted AI in my OS, then I'd just use Windows 11, because, in addition to all the spyware, it actually just werks OOTB as advertized, and has saner users and devs.
3 • AI tools (by grraf on 2025-02-10 02:10:48 GMT from Romania)
No thanks, if I wanted spyware and autonomous decision making done behind my back i would have been on W11.
The moment I see AI integrated into my daily driver distro is the moment i'm switching to another one...
4 • Did you mean Learning Module? (by Tim on 2025-02-10 02:16:53 GMT from Australia)
There's currently no such thing as AI (unless you mean artificial insemination) they are learning modules?
I might consider installing such a tool on my server at some point but as an application not something intrinsic to the OS.
As it is I've seen Copilot foisted on some Windows 10 PC's I look after and have promptly removed it.
LMs have their place. I use kagi.com for search and it provides it but doesn't force me to when all I want is to do a search.
5 • AI BS! (by oldfart on 2025-02-10 02:58:10 GMT from United States)
I'm right there with @3... Want nothing to do with AI. Half the fun is figuring things out for yourself. Thanks anyway.
6 • AI is a solution looking for a problem (by An invisible friend on 2025-02-10 03:49:38 GMT from Chile)
AI is a tool. For a new tool to be valuable it should do a designated task better, more efficiently or in a simpler way than previous tools. Most ai implementations I've seen so far are way more resource hungry, produce worse results, are more complicated or don't have a designated purpose.
7 • Eh Aye? (by Friar Tux on 2025-02-10 04:18:25 GMT from Canada)
Sorry, folks. I'm actually on the other side of this discussion. I have been waiting for A.I. to be integrated into an OS. Not as a personal assistant - like Siri or Alexa - though that might be nice as the user facing UI, maybe. What I'm waiting for is for an A.I. that will write letters to Gramma for me, in MY style. One that can do up my shopping list and order it to be delivered. One that I can tell/ask/command verbally, similar to Siri or Alexa, but one with the ability to ask intelligent questions if it needs details - "Friar, you wanted to order lintels. Did you want the tiny orange ones or the bigger brown ones? Oh, and do you want sparkling water, or mineral water?" I want an A.I. that I can ask something like, "Did Jesse, on DW, ever review Gentoo OS, and what did he think about it?"
I have always dreamt of a scenario where I pick an avatar from a host of options and can mix and match any possible voice. This avatar would be the UI to interact with me. Over time the avatar learns how I do things/how I like things. It can anticipate those. It can make suggestions. It can have my tax return prepared beforehand and remind me that it filed them at the proper time. This and much more. I know we're still have a long way to go, but hey, I can dream.
I have even, already picked out a name and personality if I even run across a web browser with an intelligent A.I. incorporated right in. I would call it Nettie, and "she" would look and sound like the young heroine from the cartoon movie "Brave".
8 • AI Tools in OS (by user on 2025-02-10 04:43:45 GMT from Bulgaria)
Yes, I would like them to be integrared into the distro. I played with the new UOS AI 2.0 Deepin 2025 preview two weeks ago and I'm impressed. Definately will install Deepin 25 in parallel to my other OSes upon release.
9 • Dual boot and swap (by Penguinx86 on 2025-02-10 04:49:09 GMT from United States)
I have dual booted and shared the swap partition lots of times. It worked just fine. The only time I had problems dual booting was with Fedora. I couldn’t get Fedora to dual boot with anything.
10 • swapoff before shutdown (by Much Derper on 2025-02-10 05:34:58 GMT from United States)
Fun fact I've discovered myself not too long ago - apparently, swapoff can be quite slow, even on a very fast device. The reason for that is kernel has to traverse all page tables for all processes for each page from swap device that it discards, apparently. So if the trusted/untrusted OS dualboot situation is permanent, perhaps a better solution would be to simply set up a LUKS container for the trusted OS. Or at least not swap on disk, but use something like zram instead.
11 • A.I. aka LLMs (by Vè on 2025-02-10 06:00:01 GMT from United States)
I don't think it should be there by default. But who am I to tell you how or what you can use your computer for. If A.I. is available in the package manager I'm ok with that. Shoot, I might even try it out of curiosity. Just please don't integrate it by default.
12 • dumb devices, clever people (by arfiticient immulator on 2025-02-10 06:20:02 GMT from New Zealand)
I like my devices dumb, and my people clever, NOT the other way around.
The big danger at the moment, is Windows, Apple and Google have already integrated Ai, so some "intelmigent" under-25 "devs" at certain core points in the Linux world may be tempted with "I want to play too."
Two that immediately come to mind are Canonical's Ubuntu folks - they slept with Amazon and other "deals of the day" in the past. The major one is the infamous anti-talents at Gnome.
And you folks still fight over systemd ... wait till you fight over Ai in the Linux distros.
13 • @12 (by user on 2025-02-10 06:58:50 GMT from Bulgaria)
"And you folks still fight over systemd ... wait till you fight over Ai in the Linux distros."
Don't you see it as I am? AI is the only possible intelligent FIX and MANAGEMENT for the manual systemd and ever growing MESS. Just wait and see, you'll be begging for an integrated AI soon. :D
14 • @7, @12, (by Limpid Lizard on 2025-02-10 07:05:04 GMT from United States)
@7, "I want an A.I. that I can ask something like, "Did Jesse, on DW, ever review Gentoo OS, and what did he think about it?" Some of what you wish is available. I have Edge browser with Copilot on my daily use distros. I asked: 'when did distrowatch review gentoo?' Answer: 'Distrowatch reviewed Gentoo Linux on August 22, 2016. They reviewed the "Choice Edition" of Gentoo Linux live DVD1. Are you a fan of Gentoo, or just curious about its history?' 'Just curious. Can you access the review?' 'I can't provide the full review verbatim due to copyright restrictions, but I can give you a brief summary! They highlighted Gentoo's flexibility and customization options, noting that it's ideal for users who want complete control over their Linux systems2. The review mentioned that while the installation process can be complex, the rewards of customization and optimization are worth it for experienced user' The conversation can proceed from there.
@12, "Windows, Apple and Google have already integrated Ai" Can't speak for Apple, but on my Windows and Android devices, use of the available AI is optional, thus not "integrated."
15 • AI (by picamanic on 2025-02-10 07:19:47 GMT from United Kingdom)
The only use of AI that I have made is the experimental AI Chat option in the duckduckgo.com search engine, for specific hard questions. Even then, getting to an answer can be like extractiing teeth! Incomplete or wrong answers are easily spotted, and get "apologies" from the AI Chat prgrams. The crunch will come when the monetise AI search.
16 • AI (by Essetee on 2025-02-10 07:55:21 GMT from Belgium)
I use LM-Studio for my AI. Don't need an AI tool in my distro. If you want AI, it's not difficult to get one.
17 • @4 Did you mean Learning Module? (by DaveT on 2025-02-10 08:27:21 GMT from United Kingdom)
What he said.
In my day they were called "Expert Systems". There might be something you could call AI hiding in various labs, I don't think what we can use is anywhere close to what they are working on.
18 • AI (by PeteB on 2025-02-10 09:14:47 GMT from United Kingdom)
AI NO thanks.
Aurora No thanks. 6.5Gb for a distro wow.
I thought that 3.1Gb for my Lubuntu ( totally de- snapped) was big enough
19 • encrypted swap made easy (by Freddy on 2025-02-10 09:16:04 GMT from Denmark)
For encrypted swap space I recommend making a labeled file system as anchor point and use a random password at every boot. The boot process will not demand entering a password, and shut down does not demand swapoff.
run as root:
SWAPDEV=the partition yu want to use as swap, e.g. /dev/sda2
cp --archive --update=none /etc/fstab /etc/fstab.ORIG
swapoff $SWAPDEV
# FORCE Create a 1 MiB filesystem with label for encrypted swap
mkfs.ext2 -F -L cryptswap $SWAPDEV 1M
# remove old swap and put encrypted swap in /etc/fstab
sed -e 's/.* swap .*/#&/' /etc/fstab > /etc/fstab.NY
echo "
/dev/mapper/swap none swap defaults 0 0
" >> /etc/fstab.NY
echo "
#
swap LABEL=cryptswap /dev/urandom swap,offset=2048,cipher=aes-xts-plain64,size=512
# The offset is 2048 sectors of 512 bytes, thus 1 MiB.
# The encrypted swap will not affect the filesystem LABEL/UUID, and data alignment works out as well.
" >> /etc/crypttab
cp /etc/fstab.NY /etc/fstab
20 • Gentoo (by Jesse on 2025-02-10 11:17:48 GMT from Canada)
@14: "Some of what you wish is available. I have Edge browser with Copilot on my daily use distros. I asked: 'when did distrowatch review gentoo?' Answer: 'Distrowatch reviewed Gentoo Linux on August 22, 2016. They reviewed the "Choice Edition" of Gentoo Linux live DVD1"
I think "Some" is the key word here. The Copilot bot gave you an answer, but it wasn't really complete. It found a review of Gentoo from 2016, but skipped over two others published here, one from 2023.
That isn't bad, but it isn't great. A quick web search or visiting our Gentoo page would have been just as fast and given more complete results.
21 • I do not want AI models in my OS (by Zed on 2025-02-10 11:58:45 GMT from Italy)
I don't even think AI can exist.
22 • AI integration in a distro, (by Hank on 2025-02-10 12:08:04 GMT from Germany)
No thanks to AI integration in a system.
Presently I use an older Desktop system with an unlocked I5 and 8GB RAM, it is more than powerful enough for my OS, antiX, a system installed configured and managed using my near 75 year old non AI brain. No fatpacks no lumbering gloomy gnome, no pottering madness. I want to keep thinks understandable dependable and lightweight.
Minimum for reasonably integrated AI integration is 32GB RAM and at least a newer gen I7.
A secondary reason for all the hype seems to be not only including spyware but selling new computers too. A further negative effect, huge increase in power consumption.
23 • 20 • Gentoo (by Limpid Lizard on 2025-02-10 12:13:28 GMT from United States)
@20, "It found a review of Gentoo from 2016, but skipped over two others published here, one from 2023. A quick web search or visiting our Gentoo page would have been just as fast . . ." A not-so-quick web search with DuckDuckGo, Google and Yahoo trying different queries did not yield any DW reviews, only user reviews and the Gentoo DW page. The Gentoo page lists the 2016 review by Joshua Allen Holm, and a quick take in 2023 below Serpent OS and Security Onion. Nothing else. So yes, Copilot does not contain the whole web. Nor do the search engines for that matter. ChatGPT does better: "what was the last distrowatch review of gentoo"
"The most recent review of Gentoo Linux on DistroWatch was published on November 25, 2023. This review provides an in-depth analysis of Gentoo's features, performance, and suitability for various user needs.Gentoo is a source-based distribution known for its flexibility and performance optimization. It allows users to compile software specifically for their hardware, offering a high degree of customization. However, this approach can be time-consuming and may not be ideal for users seeking a quick setup.
The DistroWatch review highlights Gentoo's extensive documentation and active community support, which are valuable resources for both new and experienced users. The review also discusses the distribution's rolling release model, ensuring users have access to the latest software versions. For a comprehensive understanding of Gentoo's current state and its suitability for your needs, you can read the full review on DistroWatch.
24 • AI is privacy nightmare most of the time (by Explorer09 on 2025-02-10 12:35:59 GMT from Taiwan)
I was expecting that a good Linux distro should come with privacy by default, and no unwanted apps or bloat. As my title says, AI is privacy nightmare most of the time. That's the first concern. The waste of disk and memory resources would the the second one.
I know there are companies pushing AI for "faster work" or something, but the bottom line is, it should be OPTIONAL. People who don't want it should be able to remove it.
25 • @20, @24, Gentoo review and ChatGPT (by Limpid Lizard on 2025-02-10 12:38:13 GMT from United States)
"The most recent review of Gentoo Linux on Distrowatch was published on November 25, 2023" Noting that there was no November 25 2023 review as far as I know. The DW weekly was on November 27. So, as the saying goes: Don't believe everything you read on the internet, including ChatGPT.
26 • DW reviews (by anticapitalista on 2025-02-10 12:39:07 GMT from Greece)
On the topic of DW reviews or lack of.
Ask your favourite AI - 'when did distrowatch review antiX?'
27 • Gentoo reviews (by Jesse on 2025-02-10 13:15:17 GMT from Canada)
@23: "ChatGPT does better: "what was the last distrowatch review of gentoo? The most recent review of Gentoo Linux on DistroWatch was published on November 25, 2023. This review provides an in-depth analysis of Gentoo's...."
How is that better? It's a complete lie. There was no issue of DistroWatch on Nov 25, 2023. There was one on the 20th of Nov that year and one on the 27th. Neither contained a review of Gentoo. ChatGPT completely made that up, lying to you. How is misinformation and making up a fake review better?
28 • @27, Gentoo fake reviews (by Limpid Lizard on 2025-02-10 13:22:41 GMT from United States)
See my post @25
29 • AI (by dragonmouth on 2025-02-10 13:40:05 GMT from United States)
IF I want AI crammed down my throat, I can go back to using W11 (hell is going to freeze over first).
For those who insist that they cannot live without AI, it should be available in the distro repositories to be installed like any other package (by choice!). It should not be forced on the users like Snaps or systemd.
The problem with AI is that, like any other intelligence, it is always "learning". To learn, it has to hoover up any and all data it can get its "hands" on. I, for one. am not willing to surrender that data.
30 • about AI tools (by AIman on 2025-02-10 13:46:49 GMT from Moldova)
There is a nice distro focused on AI:
MakuluLinux
it is pretty interesting tools and it is useful because it has all the tools under a single roof, I know that there are things like chatgpt & google
but the ability to do AI automation with a single click is cool:
- for example if you want to write an audio translation for some one from your language to let's say Italian(or any other language) it has a tool for that.
- If you wanna do some illustration for some project, it has a tool for that too
- also the developers are AI fanatics, so that besides it's own AI tools, they package some oss llms into a nice app, depending on your needs (coding, writing, journalism, marketing)
- and they package 1-click apps for 10+ commerciall llms like chatgpt, mistral, google, ms, and that new chinese distro
you can think about makulu is that it is new rebekablackOS demo OS but which focuses on AI instead of wayland.
I voted yes, cause using apps instead of tabs in firefox is faster
31 • AI tools (by Tuxedoar on 2025-02-10 15:47:59 GMT from Argentina)
Hi. As long as any AI tool is published under a GPL compatible license and is offered in a distro as an opt-in conponent, I wouldn't have a problem with such an offering. I'm far from being a fan of AI, but I'm always in favor of any new tool that enlarges the FOSS ecosystem offering and its usage not being enforced in any way on you. I mean, you should always be able to decide whether to have that component installed on your system or not.
Have a nice week.
Cheers.
32 • AI (by Trinidad Cruz on 2025-02-10 16:13:55 GMT from United States)
Coding assistance can be handy, especially after hours of working at night. No other purpose appeals to me.
TC
33 • That AI stuff. (by because, reasons on 2025-02-10 18:23:21 GMT from New Zealand)
as Jessie (@27) mentioned, they can and do LIE .
If using for coding, and I have used ChatGPT, it really pays to check the output, sometimes its "perfect", other times it's crap.
It does need to be fact checked.
34 • Serpent OS (by Mr. Plaid on 2025-02-10 18:44:46 GMT from United States)
Serpent OS booted just fine for me off of a usb stick on a jailbroken HP Chromebook. It's a pretty simple Gnome desktop with a minimal set of basic apps installed including Firefox 133.0.3. The software center only connects to Flathub, but that's fine with me. I've been using it for 20 minutes now but not really putting it through the paces. So far there's nothing about the Alpha release that seems different from other operating systems, nor is there anything special about it popping out right away but this is running on a live boot. Right now it's a simple and clean OS but that's all. I'd still like to see what they do with it down the line.
35 • AI (by Good Lung on 2025-02-10 21:25:23 GMT from Germany)
AI as it is today is not resource efficient enough, Deepseek is an advancement.
Well you can absolutely run the low resource models, yet they are not so "smart" to be truly helpful they usually need to be trained to specific tasks. To be able to run a good general model locally you need a GPU with +- 16GB of VRAM.
Using online based AI is a vulnerability in itself since the prompt can be reviewed by a human. This isn't a problem for people who use it for business though, but a limitation nonetheless since AI really show the value with personalized personal information to help the user specifically.
In my amateur opinion, in the future this will not be a problem and AI probably will be so optional as the internet is today, since it already solving problems that we don't know the answer to. The question is of it has a limit or it is exponential as it is seen with tech advancements.
About Serpent OS and privacy oriented systems, would be nice if they would make or integrate a application based firewall that is more user friendly like opensnitch, I've briefly read about one called Subgraph OS that has something alike.
36 • AI distros do cometh (by Kruger on 2025-02-10 23:24:24 GMT from Australia)
Redhat may be thinking about AI integration.
Meanwhile Gnoppix has already done it in their latest release....
"Does Gnoppix Linux already integrate AI features? As one of the world's first Linux distributions to do so, we proudly integrated ChatGPT into Gnoppix Linux at launch on November 30th, 2022."
"We've transitioned to open-source AI, which is generally more privacy-friendly than commercial AI because it offers greater control over how your data is used.
Unleash your full potential with Copilot, your innovative AI companion that seamlessly integrates into your daily workflow. Streamline your work and unlock new possibilities by leveraging the power of AI."
Who asked for this monstrosity out of the box? Why not have it as an opt-in option during install or at least as a separate download option?
37 • 33 • That AI stuff. (by Limpid Lizard on 2025-02-11 00:54:35 GMT from United States)
"they can and do LIE" Lying is a human trait, and it involves purposeful deception. Those things aren't intelligent enough, if at all. They do give wrong information, as do regular searches and well-meaning people. For example, Jesse (@20) said there were two other reviews of Gentoo. I could find only one. He was not lying, just mistaken (or maybe I am). I believe the word they use when chat AIs invent things is 'hallucinating".
38 • Information (by Jesse on 2025-02-11 01:50:49 GMT from Canada)
@37: ""they can and do LIE" Lying is a human trait"
You've never had animals as pets, have you? Animals lie too, it's not just humans. Computers may be programmed by humans, but they definitely lie.
"Jesse said there were two other reviews of Gentoo. I could find only one. He was not lying, just mistaken (or maybe I am)."
They're linked on the Gentoo information page here on DistroWatch. https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gentoo
39 • @38 • Information (by Limpid Lizard on 2025-02-11 03:07:18 GMT from United States)
@38, "You've never had animals as pets, have you?" I have had and have pets. There's a cat sitting next to me at the moment and a dog with my wife in another room. No pets have ever lied to me. Anthropomorphism is ascribing human characteristics to nonhuman things. @20, "It found a review of Gentoo from 2016, but skipped over two others published here, one from 2023." There is only one review of Gentoo other than the one picked up by Copilot, not two others as you said. You were mistaken.
https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gentoo
40 • AI (by Kruger on 2025-02-11 05:09:59 GMT from Australia)
Gentoo review or not by chatgpt.....
You are missing the point Jesse was making which is ChatGPT fabricates details and lies about everything makinmg up complete nonsense.
If you want to believe ChatGPT that's your choice.
It's also your choice to jump off a cliff. Nobody will stop you.
41 • systemd-less Fedora (by illumos on 2025-02-11 10:09:13 GMT from Japan)
Debian without systemd has MX, Devuan, antiX, etc.
Arch without systemd has Artix, Obarun, etc.
Why is there no project to develop Fedora without systemd?
42 • MAKULU LINDOZ (by Muthu Kathiravan on 2025-02-11 11:33:54 GMT from India)
I appreciate Makulu Linux which is based on DEBIAN also integrates a lot of AI Tools in its Latest Feb Month Version,. Please Check Makulu Linux If you have time
43 • systemd-free Fedora [guess] (by picamanic on 2025-02-11 12:12:38 GMT from United Kingdom)
Fedora is weird because it was presented as a testing ground for the commercial Redhat Linux. However, the former uses the DNF package manager, where as the latter uses RPMs. The closest match that distrowatch search could come up with was PC Linux OS, which lists "RPM (APT)" as package manager, but it is confusing [Jesse?].
44 • Gentoo reviews (by Jesse on 2025-02-11 12:31:04 GMT from Canada)
@39: "There is only one review of Gentoo other than the one picked up by Copilot, not two others as you said. You were mistaken."
I think you must be trolling at this point since there are very clearly three reviews of Gentoo linked on our Gentoo page. One from 2023, one from 2016, and one from 2005. Something anyone here can verify just by glancing at the Gentoo information page.
https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20050509#1
https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20160822#gentoo
https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20230320#gentoolive
45 • Fedora (by Jesse on 2025-02-11 12:40:59 GMT from Canada)
@43: "Fedora is weird because it was presented as a testing ground for the commercial Redhat Linux. However, the former uses the DNF package manager, where as the latter uses RPMs."
RPM is the package format. DNF is the package manager. Both Fedora and RHEL use the same package format (rpm) and package manager (dnf).
As for PCLinuxOS, it is not based on Fedora. They just use the same packaging format.
Going back to @41 and their question: "Why is there no project to develop Fedora without systemd?"
There isn't a lot of benefit to making a Fedora based distro:
https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20210329#qa
46 • @8 Best Troll Award 2025 (by Linux Revolution on 2025-02-11 15:02:23 GMT from United States)
You have my vote. LMAO!
47 • Ai or not-AI? This is the problem. (by Pietro on 2025-02-11 16:27:05 GMT from Italy)
Einstein: "Computers are incredibly fast, accurate and stupid. Humans are incredibly slow, inaccurate and intelligent. The two together constitute an incalculable force."
48 • AI (by Name (mandatory) on 2025-02-11 17:29:23 GMT from United States)
No AI!
49 • AI in the wider world (by Mr B on 2025-02-11 17:33:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
Aside from the discussions here about AI being part of Linux distros, check out YouTube videos featuring Prof Geoffrey Hinton, the so-called "Godfather of AI." If you are not worried about AI in general, in the long-term, you probably haven't been paying enough attention. Shades of Oppenheimer all over again I reckon. And today I read that the UK and US are not going to sign up to an international agreement on AI. Not good!
50 • Peppermint and Fedora (by rhtoras on 2025-02-12 01:12:56 GMT from Greece)
There are at least two projects based on rpm that use proper init systems. One is of course PClinuxOS the other being a version of alt linux. This version however is a mess because nosystemD is not well implemented and only pid1 is replaced with sysV init not whole init is different. It uses libsystemD and other critical systemD components.
On the other hand it is just awesome to see a peppermint version based on void linux. There are some Void linux respins like vxlinux, agarimOS or forks like voidpup. It is nice to see peppermint to be based on the best (according to reviews) linux distro on Distrowatch.
I am excited as a void user.
51 • neversystemD (by picamanic on 2025-02-12 05:07:05 GMT from United Kingdom)
I would make the distinction between distros like Artix and Devuan which have had systemD removed from Arch and Debian respectively, and distros like Void and PCLinuxOS, which are independent of any other distro. The former would seem to require ongoing work to ensure that bits of systemD don't creap in [correct me if I am wrong]. I understand that this is because of the scale of work that would be involved in a complete "divorce" from the parent distros, but does leave them vulnerable to undesirable developments of those parents.
52 • neversystemD (by rhtoras on 2025-02-12 10:38:18 GMT from Greece)
@52 there is Devuan and there is Antix. Both based on Debian and both without systemD. However Devuan is a different project with its own way of doing things. They use elogind but you can use it without. They use the official repos. Antix does not use elogind but instead uses a plain seatd and has it's own repos called nosystemD. You can use elogind if you want to use a desktop environment such as xfce. Although antix is the "hardcore" of the two i prefer Devuan as the experience is better here and there. In the end of the day Bruce Perens #2 of Debian said Devuan is better, so who am i to judge him.
Independent projects are another story. However in some cases you have to sacrifice things. For example if you try to install a package on PClinuxOS in rpm format it may or may not work. At least this was my experience.
53 • neversystemD (by picamanic on 2025-02-12 12:36:01 GMT from United Kingdom)
@53 Thanks, I had to perform a fresh Void install on a new computer recently when the old one died, so I restarted with the default XFCE4 desktop environment, along with other packages that I don't want. I will eventually use Openbox as my DE, starting Void from the console; using Seatd as an alternative to Elogind, Consolekit2, etc. This should allow me to return to a "frugal" machine.
AntiX and Devuan are viable alternatives to the above, making for a different look-and-feel, but suffer from the "catch up" game.
I have not used PClinuxOS, but can see it is a very different "beast" from other distros.
54 • Fedora based distros (by Otis on 2025-02-12 14:30:29 GMT from United States)
@45 "There isn't a lot of benefit to making a Fedora based distro:"
https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20210329#qa
That made me wonder about my Nobara. I could not use Fedora for certain reasons that Nobara has resolved. Seems major to me at times, and at other times seems nit-picky minor, in comparison. But I did settle on a while back as it just seems more polished and worry free than its Fedora parent.
55 • neversystemD (by anticapitalista on 2025-02-12 22:35:41 GMT from Greece)
You are behind with the times - antiX-23 is now able to provide the following desktop-environments without any trace of systemd/elogind
Xfce, LXDE, LXQT, MATE and Cinnamon
56 • Wayland without elogind (by illumos on 2025-02-13 05:55:24 GMT from Japan)
@55
Can I run Wayland without elogind?
In theory, you could use seatd to run Wayland.
57 • Adding AI on the OS level (by Scott R (LXer E-i-C) on 2025-02-14 07:16:56 GMT from United States)
I absolutely do not want AI added to my OS for ANY reason. I personally think AI is a bad idea but I know it's here to stay. At the very least it should be controlled and managed by humans very carefully. Having AI in your operating system is just another pair of eyes looking over you shoulder that you didn't ask for and don't want.
58 • @56 (by Kruger on 2025-02-14 07:41:37 GMT from Australia)
Wayland without systemD is realistically not possible
BSD's like FreeBSD, NomadBSD, and systemD-free linux distros like Devuan, Void etc, will have to stay with Xorg unless some workaround is made possible.
If you thought there was a philosophical divide in Linux about systemD, wait until the divide grows due to Wayland
59 • They are not hardcore systemd-less distro (by illumos on 2025-02-14 10:55:50 GMT from Japan)
@58
Devuan and Void use elogind and are not a hardcore systemd-less distro.
So both Devuan and Void should be able to implement Wayland.
For example, Alpine uses OpenRC, but uses elogind to implement Wayland.
The question is whether true systemd-less distros that do not use elogind, antiX, PCLOS, Obarun, etc. can implement Wayland.
And besides Linux and *BSD, there are also options called illumos.
Please also consider illumos distro, OpenIndiana, Tribblix, OmniOS, etc!
60 • Immutable OS’s (by Flavianoep on 2025-02-14 12:50:28 GMT from Brazil)
I have a doubt about immutable OS’s. There is a bank security package which I depend on, which is only available as an RPM or Deb, and which installs in /usr/bin. Would there be a way for me to install a package like that in a immutable OS?
61 • Immutable (by Jesse on 2025-02-14 13:14:46 GMT from Canada)
@60: "There is a bank security package which I depend on, which is only available as an RPM or Deb, and which installs in /usr/bin. Would there be a way for me to install a package like that in a immutable OS?"
Yes, in a container. Usually set up using a tool like Toolbx or Distrobox.
62 • Operational system (by Emiliano soares de Almeida on 2025-02-14 23:06:20 GMT from Brazil)
Software
Number of Comments: 62
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SharkLinux
SharkLinux was an Ubuntu-based distribution featuring the MATE desktop. The distribution automatically upgrades packages on the system to apply security patches. The distribution also enables sudo access by default without requiring a password for user convenience. SharkLinux features the Ubuntu Hardware Enablement (HWE) kernel by default.
Status: Discontinued
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