 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 1073, 3 June 2024 |
Welcome to this year's 23rd issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
Graphical desktop environments are the method by which most people interact with their computers. The concept of placing applications inside rectangles (windows) which can be moved around the screen has been around for decades and there are many styles and approaches which build on this idea. This week we focus on desktop environments, beginning with a look at LXQt 2.0.0, a lightweight desktop which uses the same Qt development library as the more commonly used KDE Plasma desktop. How do you feel about light desktops such as LXQt and Enlightenment? Do they provide enough feature for you or do you need more capabilities like those found in Plasma and Cinnamon? Let us know in the Opinion Poll. This week we also respond to a request to compare the main Linux desktops. Our Questions and Answers section provides an overview of the more commonly used Linux desktops and what makes them special. In our News section this week we report on Wayland adding OpenBSD support and progress happening in openSUSE's atomic Aeon Desktop edition. The Aeon Desktop branch provides an immutable base with filesystem snapshots and a focus on portable packages providing applications. We also share an article about a spike in traffic to Fedora's repository mirrors and report that Canonical is partnering with Milk-V to get Ubuntu running on the Milk-V Mars single-board computer which features a RISC-V processor. Plus we are pleased to welcome the NethSecurity firewall distribution to our database. NethSecurity grew out of the NethServer distribution and attempts to make managing firewalls and networks as easy as possible. Plus we share a summary of last week's distribution releases and list the torrents we are seeding. We wish you all a terrific week and happy reading!
This week's DistroWatch Weekly is presented by TUXEDO Computers.
Content:
- Review: LXQt 2.0.0 running on EndeavourOS
- News: Canonical partners with Milk-V, openSUSE rolls out new features for Aeon Desktop branch, Fedora mirrors see unexpected traffic spike, Wayland gains OpenBSD support
- Questions and answers: An overview of Linux desktop environments
- Released last week: Red Hat Enterprise Linux 8.10, Armbian 24.5.1, KaOS 2024.05, Rhino Linux 2024.1, NethSecurity 8.0
- Torrent corner: AlmaLinux OS, Armbian, KaOS, KDE neon, Linux Lite
- Upcoming releases: FreeBSD 14.1
- Opinion poll: Do lightweight desktops offer enough features for you?
- New additions: NethSecurity
- Reader comments
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| Feature Story (By Jesse Smith) |
LXQt 2.0.0 running on EndeavourOS
On April 15th, the LXQt project announced the launch of LXQt 2.0.0. What is LXQt? The project's website describes itself as follows:
LXQt is a lightweight Qt desktop environment. It will not get in your way. It will not hang or slow down your system. It is focused on being a classic desktop with a modern look and feel.
While LXQt is capable of working with multiple window managers, it is most commonly paired with Openbox or KWin.
The 2.0.0 release places a strong focus on the migration from the Qt5 development libraries to Qt version 6. This upgrade also paves the way for most LXQt components to be Wayland compatible, though there are a few modules remaining that are not compatible with Wayland. For people interested in running LXQt under Wayland now instead of an X11 session, the LXQt documentation has some tips for running under Wayland. The project's release announcement mentions version 2.1.0 of the desktop should be 100% compatible with Wayland. Here are the highlights from the LXQt release announcement:
- Wayland will be the main target for LXQt 2.1.0, as Qt6 was for LXQt 2.0.0. The components which are not ready for Wayland yet include ScreenGrab, LXQt Global Shortcuts, LXQt Panel's task-bar and keyboard indicator (but LXQt Panel can be used under Wayland without those plugins), some input settings, and settings of monitor, power button, and screen locker. However, most Wayland compositors have tools that can be used instead of them, such that an LXQt-Wayland session is already possible for advanced users.
- LXQt Panel has a new default application menu called Fancy Menu, featuring "Favourites", "All Applications", and an improved search.
- Now, PCManFM-Qt [the file manager] can give you a real desktop not only with desktop-agnostic X11 windows managers, but also with Wayland compositors which implement "layer shell protocol", like those based on wlroots or KWin.
Getting started
I have a growing appreciation for light- and medium-weight desktop environments. My daily requirements are fairly minimal (and static) while the features and flash of larger desktops keep raising the bar in terms of CPU, memory, and disk consumption. I wanted to try out LXQt and - since the Arch Linux family quickly packaged LXQt 2.0.0, got it through testing, and into the stable repositories in a few weeks - I decided to use an Arch-based system as my testing ground. Specifically, I used EndeavourOS which is an Arch-based distribution that allows the user to pick their desktop environment at install time and sets it up with a minimal amount of customization. This gave me quick access to LXQt without a lot of distro-specific changes and without another desktop installed and cluttering up the system.
LXQt 2.0.0 -- The new Fancy application menu
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Once I'd installed LXQt and signed in the first thing I noticed was a notification which popped up in the lower-right corner of the screen. This notification indicated this was the first time the power manager had run. I was shown a button I could click to configure the system's power-related features. When I clicked the button I was shown a window where I could adjust what happens when the system is idle, when the battery is running low, and when the laptop's lid is closed.
Apart from the power manager notification, LXQt was silent. No welcome window, first-run wizard, or configuration window was displayed when I first signed in. (EndeavourOS does display a distro-specific welcome window, but it's for underlying EndeavourOS features only.)
LXQt was set up with a light theme by default. A medium sized panel was placed across the bottom of the display. This panel was packed with widgets. There was a button for the application menu, a virtual desktop switcher, a few quick-launch buttons, a task switcher, and a system tray.
The rest of the desktop was empty, by default, though we can add icons to it for opening files or accessing parts of the filesystem.
Application windows were displayed with thin title bars and small control buttons. As with most desktops and window managers, the window control buttons were placed to the right side of the windows.
Performance
LXQt running on the Openbox window manager was light and snappy. The interface is unusually responsive. Applications open quickly, windows respond immediately, and menus render instantly. It's refreshing to navigate a desktop that responds right away without lag or visual effects slowing the experience.
LXQt fits into the light-to-medium category in terms of memory consumption. The desktop took up just 470MB of RAM on EndeavourOS. This places it at about two-thirds the size of Plasma 5 on most distributions and a little less than Xfce on most distributions I've run recently.
Improved application menu
The LXQt release announcement mentioned a few key features. While some of them are not visible to users, a few are. The default application menu, which was a minimal, tree-style menu in version 1.4.0, has been replaced in version 2.0.0. The new menu, which is called Fancy, introduces a dual-pane style with a search bar. The left pane displays application launchers while the right pane shows us available categories of software. The default category is Favourites, which is empty. When it is empty, the Favourites category displays a message letting us know we can right-click on launchers to add them to our Favourites group.
At the top of the Fancy menu we find a search box where we can type the name or description of an application. For example, typing "web" locates Firefox while typing "text" finds the FeatherPad text editor. Regardless of which category we have selected in the right-side pane, search results are immediately displayed in the left pane when we begin typing.
At the bottom of the menu are three buttons. One is decorated with the LXQt logo and it opens the About LXQt window. This window provides version and copyright information. The second second button is for settings and opens the LXQt control panel. The third button opens a window with logout and shutdown options.
For people who prefer the old, simple menu with the tree layout, it is still available. We can right-click on the desktop panel to bring up a menu which gives us options for adjusting the widget under the mouse pointer or the panel itself. Selecting Manage Widgets brings up a window where we can remove unwanted widgets and add new ones. The earlier version of the application menu widget is called Application Menu (mainmenu). The new one is called Fancy Application Menu (fancymenu).
Control panel
LXQt features a classic control panel with launchers for configuration modules laid out in a grid. There are just a handful of launchers for managing the desktop appearance, power settings, file type associations, notifications, shortcut keys, and keyboard & mouse settings. While LXQt might not be as flexible as Plasma or have as many features as Xfce, we have a good deal of flexibility at our fingertips. I like that the modules are consistent and easy to navigate. As with many aspects of LXQt, we're given "enough" options without being given "too much" or anything extra.
LXQt 2.0.0 -- The control panel
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I ran into very few issues during my trial with LXQt, and no serious problems. One quirk I ran into was with the Appearance configuration module. This isn't a bug, just an inconsistency. When browsing the theme and icon options in the Appearance module we are shown previews next to the names of the themes and icon sets. When visiting the tab for adjusting the look of the mouse pointer, no preview is shown. I thought this was a bug at first, until I clicked on a pointer theme's name to test it and the preview appeared.
LXQt 2.0.0 -- Changing the mouse pointer theme
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PCManFM-Qt
I usually don't use graphical file managers, but I wanted to poke around PCManFM-Qt, the LXQt file manager, a bit. It's a fast and simple file manager with a locations pane down the left side and icons for files and folders displayed to the right. PCManFM-Qt is, like the rest of the desktop, small and snappy. It works as expected and I encountered no problems with it. I quite like the breadcrumb style toolbar the file manager uses, making it easy to jump back up layers of directories. I also like that right-clicking on the breadcrumb bar gives us two options: copy the current path or edit the path manually.
LXQt 2.0.0 -- The PCManFM-Qt file manager
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Other observations
I experimented with swapping out LXQt's default, light theme for a dark theme. Here we can run into a complication because LXQt's Appearance utility handles desktop panels, window contents, and icons separately. This can lead to some situations where changing the theme causes icons to be invisible or adjusting the colours used in application windows can make it hard to see the mouse pointer. In short, I ended up doing a little bit of switching back and forth between the various Appearance tabs as I tried to find the desired combination.
LXQt 2.0.0 -- Trying out a dark theme
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One issue I ran into and didn't find a fix for was tool tips. Tool tips always seem to use the same background colour and using a theme that requires light fonts resulted in tool tips which were unreadable. There is probably a setting buried in LXQt or Openbox to adjust the background colour of tooltips, but it was not included in the various control panel tools and Openbox window customization tools I checked.
At one point I decided to try to customize the LXQt desktop the way I'd probably set it up if I were to use the environment for a long time. This involved moving the desktop panel to the left and making it vertical, moving window control buttons to the left, and using a dark theme. I also like a bold font.
This experiment eventually worked, but it was not a smooth process. Switching the panel from a horizontal to vertical orientation breaks a few things. Most notably the clock and task switcher show text sideways, and the quick launch buttons shrink to the point of being almost invisible. These things can be fixed. We can expand the panel and refresh it to restore the quick launch buttons. We can change a setting in the task switcher to use icons only instead of icons and text. The clock was a bigger problem. I did eventually find a way to switch its orientation (by disabling auto-rotate) and expanded the panel so the clock's numbers were not truncated. When I switched to a dark theme, the clock's text remained black and thus became invisible. This required a dive into LXQt's panel text and background settings.
LXQt 2.0.0 -- Exploring a custom layout
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Changing the position of window buttons is possible, but a bit cryptic. In the window options there is a text box where we can type letters, each letter representing a button. The string of lettings determines the position of buttons. For example, typing "TIMC" would cause a window's title bar to display the application's name (title), minimize, maximize, and close buttons - in that order. This isn't as straight forward as having a visual representation where we can drag buttons into place, but it does work.
All of this leads me to say that LXQt can be reshaped, even into unusual configurations. However, doing so is not as simple as clicking a few buttons to adjust the theme and locations of items. Elements can't just be dragged around the way I did when I used Plasma 6 on Fedora 40 earlier this year. Moving things around on LXQt and adjusting the colours is a multi-step process. We can't just re-orient the panel, we also need to adjust the widgets on the panel. We can't just change a theme, we also need to address window colours and font colours separately. The configuration tools work, there is just more manual work involved with LXQt than when using more feature-rich desktop environments.
Conclusions
LXQt is a special type of project that accomplishes what it sets out to do. The desktop's website makes no wild or bold claims and it doesn't use flowery language. The LXQt website describes the desktop environment as being lightweight and modular. It says LXQt won't bog down the system, and will stay out of the way. All of this is entirely accurate. When running LXQt all of its components and Openbox combined used less than 1% of my CPU cycles. The desktop, even with EndeavourOS's background services, used less than 500MB of RAM.
The desktop itself, like the website, is attractive without being flashy, useful without getting in the way, and fast without lacking anything important. I'm not saying it is perfect, as I mentioned above, there are some quirks and some manual work we must do to customize the experience. However, I will say that I didn't encounter anything I would say is a serious bug, there were no stability issues, and no glaring problems.
LXQt is a no nonsense, no frills, no distractions style of desktop which has just gone through an evolutionary improvement. There is nothing wildly new, no features that will make a big splash, just some incremental improvements to the application menu and Wayland support. Everything included is minimal and functional; there is nothing extra, nothing exciting. This is a desktop for people who want to work and for users running low-spec machines.
* * * * *
Hardware used in this review
My physical test equipment for this review was an HP DY2048CA laptop with the following
specifications:
- Processor: 11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-1135G7 @ 2.40GHz
- Display: Intel integrated video
- Storage: Western Digital 512GB solid state drive
- Memory: 8GB of RAM
- Wireless network device: Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX201 + BT Wireless network card
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
Canonical partners with Milk-V, openSUSE rolls out new features for Aeon Desktop branch, Fedora mirrors see unexpected traffic spike, Wayland gains OpenBSD support
Canonical has announced a new build of Ubuntu for the Milk-V Mars single board computer. The Milk-V Mars features a RISC-V processor and up to 8GB of memory. "Milk-V and Canonical have reached a strategic cooperation agreement with the intention of bringing Ubuntu to novel RISC-V devices. Milk-V will provide hardware sponsorship to Canonical, including for future products, and offer an Ubuntu operating system as its main supported and maintained system to users across form factors and use cases, with a specific emphasis on accelerated computing and AI. With the support of Milk-V's hardware and engineering teams, Canonical will leverage the latest and greatest RISC-V designs to continuously improve Ubuntu and the broader open source ecosystem for the RISC-V ISA." The new Ubuntu build can be downloaded from the Ubuntu RISC-V page.
* * * * *
openSUSE's Aeon Desktop edition is taking form and gaining new features. The Aeon Desktop branch of openSUSE offers atomic updates, automated snapshots, and makes use of containers and Flatpak bundles to provide access to additional applications. The project is enabling compressed swap (zRAM) by default and using a new system installer to make sure new copies of the distribution start with predictable configurations. "One of the standout features of Aeon Desktop RC2 is the inclusion of Linux Kernel module zRAM by default. This feature significantly improves system performance by avoiding the need to swap data to slow hard disk drives (HDDs) or wear-limited solid-state drives (SSDs); this provides users with faster and more efficient memory management. Another feature introduced in Aeon is a revolutionary image-based installation process powered by the new installer tik. This ensures every user receives an identical configuration out-of-the-box." More information about Aeon Desktop can be found in the project's news post.
* * * * *
Stephen Smoogen has shared an interesting blog post which talks about an unexpected spike in network traffic to Fedora's repository mirrors. "Basically the load is an additional 5 million systems starting to query both the Fedora webproxies for mirror data, and then mirrors around the world to get further information. Going through the logs, there seems to be a 'gradual' shift of additional servers starting to ask for content when they had not before. In looking at the logs, it is hard to see what the systems asking for this data are. EL-7 uses yum which doesn't report any user data beyond: "urlgrabber/3.10 yum/3.4." That could mean the system is Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7, CentOS Linux 7, or even Amazon Linux 2 (which is sort of based on CentOS 7, but with various changes that using EPEL is probably not advised)." The extra five million addresses querying Fedora's mirrors seem to be coming from Amazon, though neither the Fedora project or Amazon know why at the time of writing. Downloading packages from Fedora and EPEL servers may be impacted until the issue is resolved.
* * * * *
The Wayland project has announced the release of Wayland 1.23.0 which introduces a number of bug fixes and improvements to the Wayland protocol. Included in the short list of changes and new features is an entry which simply says "OpenBSD support". It's likely this will open the door for desktop environments on OpenBSD to offer Wayland sessions in the future.
* * * * *
These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
An overview of Linux desktop environments
Picking-a-desktop asks: Do you guys have any interest in writing a comparison of or guide to Linux desktop environments? DistroWatch's Search page lists over 50 DEs in the Desktop Interface category and Debian alone lists 22 DEs. With that many desktop environments, it can be overwhelming for beginners to choose among them, so a guide might be very useful.
DistroWatch answers: There are indeed a lot of open source desktops and window managers available. As the question above points out, we have about 50 listed on our Search page, and there are some we don't list, simply because they are not used as the default desktop anywhere, or are only used by one project. It's a lot of options, especially for beginners, to evaluate.
On the subject of beginners, I'd recommend newcomers to Linux not focus on selecting a specific desktop environment - at least not at first. I suggest newcomers should pick one of the more user friendly, mainstream distributions and use whichever technologies, including the default desktop environment, they offer. It's hard to go wrong by selecting "Beginners" from the Distribution Category of our Search page and taking one of the top three distributions which appear. Alternatively, check out our Major Distributions page and pick one of the three beginner options listed.
In other words, for any beginners reading this, I recommend picking a newcomer friendly project and just sticking with its defaults. Don't worry too much about what desktop environment, package manager, or release frequency the project uses. For most beginners, most of the time, picking a project like Linux Mint, Ubuntu, or Zorin OS will be a comfortable experience and give you a chance to get familiar with the Linux landscape. After that, you'll have lots of time to explore, try out different applications, different desktops, and various customizations.
With that said, let's talk about some of the big, key desktop environments.
KDE Plasma
I'd like to start with KDE Plasma as it is one of the older surviving open source desktops for Linux as well as one of the more popular. The KDE project was started in the mid 1990s and was one of the early attempts to make a Linux desktop with a suite of applications that had a unified look and feel.
Kubuntu 24.04 -- The KDE Plasma desktop
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KDE's desktop is based on the portable Qt toolkit and these days it is known as one of the more customizable desktop environments. Virtually every aspect and element of KDE Plasma can be customized, swapped out, or adjusted to suit the user. This leads some people to suggest KDE is overly complex as it offers users so many options and features, while fans of the desktop enjoy its unusual level of flexibility.
The KDE Plasma desktop tends to be one of the more heavy desktops, in terms of memory consumption, and it is either the default or one of the main desktop editions in many Linux distributions.
GNOME
The GNOME desktop was started in the late 1990s and, originally, got its start as an alternative to KDE. During most of the 1990s the Qt toolkit KDE used was offered under a restrictive license and free software advocates wanted a pure, free and open source solution. Qt was moved to a fully open source license in 1999, but by then GNOME was picking up steam and its GTK development library was gaining popularity.
These days GNOME is well known for its minimal design. GNOME tends to tuck away menus, remove extra buttons, and streamline options - favouring a design that removes clutter and customization. At the same time, GNOME is one of the (if not the) heaviest desktop in terms of memory usage. Some people note that GNOME seems to follow a touch-focused design with large buttons and widely spaced controls.
Fedora 40 -- The GNOME desktop
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GNOME is one of the more widely used Linux desktop environments. It is especially favoured by commercially backed distributions with Ubuntu, SUSE Linux Enterprise, and Red Hat/Fedora all using it as their default desktop.
Xfce
The Xfce desktop was launched around the same time as GNOME and might be considered, in some ways, the little sibling to GNOME. Like GNOME, Xfce uses the GTK library for development. However, Xfce places a stronger focus on being lightweight, avoids visual effects by default, and takes a more conservative approach to adopting new features.
For many people, Xfce finds a comfortable middle ground in the field of desktop environments. Xfce offers a medium level of customizations, a small yet capable suite of applications, and a high level of performance. It isn't as powerful, flexible, or feature rich as GNOME or KDE. However, it is more feature complete and easier to use than many of its super lightweight cousins.
Xubuntu 24.04 -- The Xfce desktop
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The middle ground approach and its relative portability have caused Xfce to be especially well received by smaller community projects (such as MX Linux) and by the rolling release distributions in the Arch Linux community. It is also often presented as a "Lite desktop edition" alternative by distributions which use KDE or GNOME in their primary edition.
LXQt
While Xfce might be considered the small sibling of GNOME, LXQt could be regarded as the small sibling of KDE Plasma. LXQt, which was originally a merger of the LXDE and Razor-qt desktops, is a lightweight desktop built using the Qt library. LXQt strives for a minimal approach and often is presented with a classic 1990s style layout. LXQt doesn't ship with a large collection of applications and, unlike the earlier three desktops mentioned, does not develop its own window manager.
Lubuntu 24.04 -- The LXQt desktop
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While some people may view LXQt as overly minimal in its design and scope, fans of the desktop appreciate its high level of performance, lack of clutter, and clean design. LXQt is highly responsive and light in memory.
Cinnamon
About 15 years ago the GNOME team decided to take a new approach and abandoned the popular GNOME version 2 desktop, replacing it with a completely new design in the form of GNOME version 3 (also known as GNOME Shell). There were a lot of varied opinions about GNOME 3 early on and concern about the new direction GNOME was taking. As a result, a number of new desktop environments were started, often forking away from either the classic GNOME 2 technology or branching from the new GNOME 3 code. Cinnamon was one of the latter, growing out of the technology offered by GNOME 3 to take on its own design, suite of applications, and theming.
Linux Mint 21 -- The Cinnamon desktop
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Cinnamon is primarily developed by the Linux Mint project and serves as its default desktop, though Cinnamon is occasionally offered by other distributions as an optional edition.
Cinnamon provides most of the modern features and feel GNOME does while taking a more classic desktop approach and workstation oriented style that newcomers to Linux will hopefully find familiar. Cinnamon tends to be on the heavier end of the scale in terms of resource usage while also providing a great deal of features, customizations, and extensions.
MATE
Earlier I mentioned some people forked the GNOME 2 code when GNOME 3 was launched. The MATE project became the spiritual continuation of GNOME 2, maintaining its style, applications, and flexibility. MATE, like Xfce, tends to find a middle ground in terms of included applications, performance, and memory usage. Like Xfce, MATE tends to be conservative in its adoption of new technologies.
MATE is appreciated by people who liked the power and performance of GNOME 2 and who prefer tried and true technologies over the last features and visual effects. While MATE is not often used as a default desktop these days, it is frequently offered as a middle-weight alternative to the bigger desktops by many distributions.
Ubuntu MATE 24.04 -- The MATE desktop
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While these are, in my opinion, the main desktop options people will run into - ones offered by many Linux distributions - there are several others. A lot of alternative desktops are typically only used by one or two distributions or have found a small niche in network-install distributions. A few honourable mentions I'd like to add to my above list are:
- Budgie - the attractive and streamlined default desktop of Solus.
- Enlightenment - a super light desktop used by Bodhi Linux and a few other distributions.
- Trinity - a fork of KDE 3 that has found a home in Q4OS.
- Deepin - a full featured and attractive desktop used primarily by the deepin distribution.
- Unity7 - yet another fork of GNOME 3 which was used by Ubuntu for several years, but has mostly been abandoned, with the exception of the Ubuntu Unity project.
- Unity8/Lomiri - a mobile-oriented desktop used primary by UBports.
There are about 40 other desktops and window managers from which to choose, but these are the ones I feel people are most likely to encounter. These are the desktops most often offered as available editions on Linux distributions' download pages. Let us know which one is your favourite, or which one you felt deserved a mention, in the comments.
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Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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| Released Last Week |
EuroLinux 8.10
EuroLinux is a distribution built from the source code of Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL). This RHEL clone has just received an upgrade to its 8.x branch. The latest release, version 8.10, mostly provides security fixes and minor updates to services and development languages: "The EuroLinux 8.10 release is codenamed 'Bucharest' - the capital of Romania. EuroLinux 8.10 is available for x86_64 and aarch64 (ARM64) architectures. Among the most significant new features are the new modules: MariaDB version 10.11; Nginx version 1.24; PHP version 8.2; PostgreSQL version 16; Python 3.12. Furthermore, the most crucial system components and developer tools have been upgraded to newer versions: GCC toolset version 13; GO language stack version 1.21; Rust language stack version 1.75; LLVM stack version 17." Aditional details can be found in the project's release announcement and in the release notes.
Red Hat Enterprise Linux 8.10
Red Hat has published a new update in the company's Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) product line, this one of the 8.x series. The new release, version 8.10, mostly introduces bug fixes and minor updates to the 8.x line. One interesting feature is a change to the behaviour of OpenSSH: "OpenSSH's response after login failure is artificially delayed to prevent user enumeration attacks. This update introduces an upper limit so that such artificial delays do not become excessively long when remote authentication takes too long, for example in privilege access management (PAM) processing." Additional changes and important details can be found in the company's release notes for Red Hat Enterprise Linux 8.10.
Armbian 24.5.1
Armbian is a Linux distribution designed for ARM development boards. It is usually based on one of the stable or development versions of Debian or Ubuntu and it supports a wide variety of popular ARM-based devices, including Banana Pi, Cubieboard, Olimex, Orange Pi, Odroid, Pine64 and others. The project has announced an updated build which carries the version number 24.5.1: "Reproducible Armbian OS and Armbian build framework are tightly connected. Framework can build custom Debian or custom Ubuntu. Armbian Ubuntu is made from LTS or latest packages and is cleaned from all Canonical packaging including snapd. By default, we provide the latest critical packages also in the LTS package base. Armbian Jammy and Noble comes with highly optimized, specially built for each hardware platform, on top of mainline kernel 6.6.y or from SoC vendors, ZFS 2.2.4 and always the latest deb packaged Chromium, packed as .deb, comes with 3D and video acceleration where possible, VS Code, Thunderbird, Firefox, preinstalled Linux Userspace x86 and x86_64 Emulator on aarch64 hardware and several others. Armbian provides cleaned, improved, but stays close to the standard Debian and Ubuntu experience. To keep 100% compatibility, we tend to keep things that work well as they are. We stick to a minimalistic approach - less is more." The release announcement offers additional details.
KaOS 2024.05
Version 2024.05 of KaOS, an independently-developed Linux distribution focused on Qt/KDE toolkit and desktop, has been released. This release removes modsetting for all graphic cards and completes the removal of GTK2 from the project's repositories: "Four years after being end of life, GTK2 is finally removed from the KaOS repositories. The one major application left that still required GTK2 was Ardour, but with 8.4.0, an internal YTK is used, thus GTK2 is now gone. Updates to the base of the system included a move to Python 3.11, Glib2 2.80 stack, kernel moved to Linux 6.8.10, Systemd 253.19, ZFS 2.2.4, KMod 32, OpenSSL 3.3, FFMPEG 6.1, OpenJDK 17 and Mesa 24.0.7. Among the new packages included is Marknote, a nicely in Plasma 6 integrated note management application." Further information is provided in the project's release notes for KaOS 2024.05.
AlmaLinux OS 8.10
The AlmaLinux OS distribution is a clone of Red Hat Enterprise Linux which maintains binary compatibility with upstream while offering a few additional features and bug fixes. The project has released AlmaLinux OS 8.10 which brings small improvements and fixes to the 8.x series. The release announcement touches on the highlights: "AlmaLinux 8.10 brings updates to security and data protection, and improvements in web-console and system roles to automate operations and ensure consistency in intricate IT settings. The release continues to enhance system availability, reliability, and recovery processes, alongside improving virtual machine snapshot functions in hybrid cloud scenarios. New system roles have been introduced to streamline the creation and administration of logical volume manager (LVM) snapshots for better data backup and recovery processes. Performance, scalability, and reliability continue to be the focus of updates in the 8.10 version to aid developers in application development and management." Additional information can be found in the project's release notes.
Rhino Linux 2024.1
Rhino Linux is an Ubuntu-based distribution which offers a rolling-release upgrade approach. The distribution uses a customised Xfce desktop environment. The project has published its first release of 2024 which focuses on an update to the Pacstall repository: "Our main highlights for 2024.1 are Pacstall's 5.0.0+ releases, so please be sure to check out the provided release notes and updated wiki down below. Joint members of the Rhino Linux and Pacstall teams have been working hard over the last several months on these releases, and we are very excited about the development potential that they hold. Known issues: In the live boot of our ISOs, desktop icons are not appearing at the start (these issues do not persist after installation). To launch Calamares installer for Rhino Linux, you can simply select 'Install Rhino Linux' from the App Grid." Additional details, including changes incorporated from upstream, are covered in the project's release announcement.
Rhino Linux 2024.1 -- Running the Unicorn/Xfce desktop
(full image size: 176kB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
NethSecurity 8.0
NethSecurity is an open sourcem Linux-based firewall which is a spin-off of the NethServer project. NethSecurity's first release is labelled version 8.0 and the release announcement highlights key features: "Threat Shield Panel: It keeps you safe by blocking attacks from known malicious IP addresses. These addresses are compiled into blocklists, each with a clear name that tells you its purpose and who maintains it. The confidence score is a value from 1 to 10 that indicates the quality of the list. Modernized login experience: Enjoy a redesigned login screen. Certificate and reverse proxy management: Navigate a dedicated page for easy management of certificates and reverse proxy settings. The import process for both configurations has been significantly improved. Now, you can also use DNS verification to request Let's Encrypt certificates, supporting wildcard certificates. Firewall rules configuration: Added a new page for configuring firewall rules, offering enhanced control. Users are encouraged to use this page for compatibility and optimal performance."
Linux Lite 7.0
Jerry Bezencon has announced the release of Linux Lite 7.0, a major new version of the project's Ubuntu-based Linux distribution featuring a customised Xfce desktop. This is the first Linux Lite version built from the long-term supported Ubuntu 24.04. "Introducing Linux Lite 7.0 final, code name 'Galena'. The theme of this Series is maturity. We've been offering Linux Lite for 12 years and, in that time, have integrated many features as suggested by the community as well as building upon a solid and secure foundation. Changes: Thunar 4.18.8 split view; minor changes to Lite Welcome; new install slides; plus many other tweaks and changes. Details: Xfce 4.18, Linux kernel 6.8 (custom kernels also available via our Repository for versions 3.13 - 6.8), Chrome 125.0, Thunderbird 115.11.0, LibreOffice 7.6.7, VLC 3.0.20, Gimp 2.10.36, base 24.04. There is no upgrade path from RC to final or from series to series. Login is automatic, no credentials are required. The image can be written to a 4GB or larger USB stick, or a writable DVD. If the screen locks during live mode, type 'linux' into the user box and click on the Login button (no password required)." Here is the full release announcement with screenshots.
Linux Lite 7.0 -- Running the Xfce desktop
(full image size: 293kB, resolution: 2560x1600 pixels)
* * * * *
Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 3,009
- Total data uploaded: 44.5TB
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) |
Do lightweight desktops offer enough features for you?
At the start of this Weekly we shared an LXQt, a lightweight desktop built with the same Qt development libraries as KDE Plasma. While LXQt is relatively minimal compared to the big desktops, such as Plasma, Cinnamon, and GNOME it does provide the basics needed to run and manage multiple applications. This week we would like to hear from you about whether lightweight desktop environments such as LXQt and Enlightenment provide you with enough features, or do you desire full featured desktops?
You can see the results of our previous poll on KDE's Plasma 6 desktop in our previous edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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Do lightweight desktops provide enough features for you?
| Yes - I prefer light desktops: | 760 (35%) |
| Yes - I can use light desktops comfortably: | 633 (29%) |
| No - I prefer more features: | 568 (26%) |
| I prefer something even lighter (window manager or console): | 212 (10%) |
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| Website News |
New projects added to database
NethSecurity
NethSecurity is a fully-featured open source Linux firewall that streamlines network security deployment in just a few clicks. NethSecurity is a spin-off of the NethServer project. It combines multiple security features into a single platform including firewalling, intrusion detection/prevention, antivirus, multi-WAN, DNS and content filtering.
NethSecurity 8.0 -- The overview dashboard
(full image size: 381kB, resolution: 3011x1735 pixels)
* * * * *
DistroWatch database summary
* * * * *
This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 10 June 2024. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Weekly Archive and Article Search pages. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • LXQT (by ThomasAnderson on 2024-06-03 00:45:15 GMT from Australia)
Good comparison of desktops in this edition.
The only thing lacking for LXQT are some decent themes. Get that sorted and it's brilliant, low mem, fast and responsive, does everything you need it to.
2 • LXQt (by John on 2024-06-03 00:58:39 GMT from United States)
One of the things that people might not realize with LXQt is that it will run just about any window manager you want, even if it ships with OpenBox. So if you're looking to theme and are used to GTK-based desktops like Gnome, XFCE, you can use the XFWM from XFCE and easily use what you're used to with Gsettings or lxappearance. If you're looking to do the same with a QT-based setup, Kwin is Plasma's basic window manager, and you can use Kvantum to tweak it to whatever Plasma theme you want: most Plasma 5 and 6 themes have kvantum settings.
LXQt as a desktop environment is pretty flexible. There are already good experiments run by the team testing LabWC (an openbox clone for Wayland) as the compositor for a full Wayland environment. With the same minor tweaking, you can also use LXQt 2.0 with Kwin to try out a lightweight Wayland experience.
3 • Lightweight Desktops (by dude on 2024-06-03 01:00:02 GMT from United States)
I use Xfce, because it's lighter weight that Cinnamon, MATE or Gnome. I don't need a bunch of unnecessary desktop features to hog my system resources. Right now, I'm running a minimal Debian VM with Xfce using UTM virtualization software on a Macbook Air with an M1 aarch processor. It's very fast. Much faster than any WinTel PC.
4 • preferred desktop (by denflen on 2024-06-03 01:12:01 GMT from United States)
While I'm not sure it is even supported anymore, I still enjoy LXDE desktop. It is available to install through the Lubuntu distro. Someday I will probably be forced use LXQT, but not yet
5 • looking forward to cosmic (by J.D. Laub on 2024-06-03 01:32:10 GMT from United States)
I've been enjoying the GNOME-based COSMIC DE of pop22.04 and am looking forward to the Rust-based release due late 2024.
6 • LXQt (by Brad on 2024-06-03 01:36:25 GMT from United States)
I tried it back in the "0." days and found it lacking, compared to Plasma which was my default.
I might consider trying it, if I can add a few things to it to make it a bit more "heavyweight". It seems to be available for Manjaro, so I might try it on an older laptop that I can use for distro-hopping.
7 • light DE (by SM on 2024-06-03 02:37:29 GMT from United States)
I am with denflen on using LXDE. Even if it is not supported anymore I still install LXDE on all my computers. LXQT is heaver and slower on older computers than LXDE and LXDE does everything I need and feel very comfortable using it. If it ain't broke.... and LXDE is the perfect DE with openbox at least for me. Been using it since 2012 and will continue to do so for as long as possible.
8 • LXQT (by vern on 2024-06-03 02:55:00 GMT from United States)
I have a laptop that I use very little. Mostly use watching dvd videos that I have converted to mkv files. Its only a i3 upc. Xubuntu works well with it. Actually Ubuntu worked good too. But after reading Jesse's review of LXQT and ArchLinux, I might install that since VLC uses the QT library anyway.
The one item I don't like about LZQT is PCManFM-Qt. The icons are too far apart. Its looks strange. I prefer Nautilus actually. That aside, I'll stall install LXQT to see its performance, etc.
9 • LXDE & Openbox (by grindstone on 2024-06-03 03:00:47 GMT from United States)
Yeah, also love for LXDE+Openbox -- pcmanfm is a must for the (rare!) sane "Find" file method alone.
There are times, though, when Thunar comes through (gvfs etc) w/o thinking where it's work in something leaner. Still, what XFCE has become (for whatever reason) is not particularly what can be called "light". It's just that everything got even intolerably & unusably heavier. I just can't even imagine what people are thinking, but I am glad for what we still have.
If you look at the tiny stuff--something like Slitaz, it'll put up something pretty (but bare) in about 50MB of ram. Antix maybe 85, depending. It's always more work to make things lean, and it seems a truism that very few seem to be able to care about it.
The world remains interesting.
10 • No scaling in XFCE (by Pumpino on 2024-06-03 03:12:05 GMT from Australia)
I used to use XFCE but switched to Cinnamon due to display scaling. I can set the display to 125% in Cinnamon, whereas XFCE doesn't have a straightforward fix.
11 • Sway on Wayland (by Udo on 2024-06-03 05:06:02 GMT from Germany)
Moving rectangular and possibly overlapping areas (windows) around by using that pointing device is much too uncomfortable, too difficult and too slow. One key-press must be enough to switch applications or to readjust the window layout :-)
(Yes, I do use a mouse - but usually /inside/ of an application window.)
12 • LXQt (by user on 2024-06-03 06:15:06 GMT from Bulgaria)
LXQt is the perfect desktop middle ground for me. I use it with the full KDE Application Framework added thus resulting in a powerful, yet snappy, reliable, unbreakable QT desktop experience - regardless of the init system, regardless of *nix OS, the same exact experience on both Linux and BSD.
13 • Desktop Environments (by 0323pin on 2024-06-03 06:32:47 GMT from Sweden)
I've used Xfce, Enlightenment and LXQt at some point.
Also tested KDE, cinnamon and MATE but, none of these are for me.
All DEs feel dirty, with a lot of crap I don't need or, even want running on my systems. A tiling window manager is all I need and that's what I use.
14 • Desktop Environment (by dr.J on 2024-06-03 07:00:49 GMT from The Netherlands)
To date, desktop environments have not convinced me - neither in Linux nor in other systems, such as Android. They are just software and utility compilations from someone who thinks they know what you need. Very funny.
In this respect, Openbox (or other window managers such as Awesome or Fluxbox) is still my first choice. I can then design the rest, for example with a panel (instead of the build-in menus of Openbox), with Conky, a double-pane file manager and the βusualβ utilities such as Screenshooter etc. and of course the theme und icons of my choice.
The result has been for decades: The desktop perfectly tailored to my needs. All this runs on an βendless systemβ, an Arch Rolling Release, no system changes (Plasma 4 to 5 to 6 etc.), no new installations. It works.It runs.
15 • Desktop Environment (by NULL on 2024-06-03 08:51:02 GMT from Germany)
In the past I loved DIY style minimal setups for desktop environments.
At the moment I need Wayland support and further, I enjoy having apps which have a similar look and feel and work good together.
I ended up using a modified/customized Gnome with a few plugins. Funnily enough, Gnomes killer applications for me are Evolution and the Online-Accounts plugins for Google and Microsoft accounts.
Everything is stable, no annoying paper cuts (looking at Xfce/Mate), runs fast enough even on my underpowered Netbook and thanks to dconf I can automatically provision all my machines with my prefered setup.
Still, waiting for KDE to get a usable E-Mail client (for years now) and once LXQT has full Wayland support, I might be tempted.
16 • DE (by XfceLover on 2024-06-03 09:37:24 GMT from Spain)
I think I've been using Xfce since I started using Linux at least 15 years ago. I've tried other DEs (heavy and light) several times over several days and I always come back to Xfce. Partly because I'm used to it, partly because it's a perfect balance between simplicity, convenience and features.
17 • DEs (by Otis on 2024-06-03 09:48:11 GMT from United States)
No matter the DE or even the distro I end up with pretty much the same look and feel and functionality on my machines:
- Transparent taskbar
- Taskbar on bottom
- No desktop icons
- Dark theme
- One workspace
- No effects
- App menu on left
- 12 hour clock, sound, network, battery on right
- Etc
If the DE can't do that, I'm back to XFCE, Gnome, or KDE. I dislike Mate, Cinnamon, IceWM, etc.
I'm boring and so is my home computing. Am I one of a kind or in the majority? Who cares?
18 • @10 β’ No scaling in XFCE (by Jan on 2024-06-03 09:59:19 GMT from The Netherlands)
You could set the monitor display resolution to a lower value, at which you reach a display magnification of circa 25%.
19 • @18 β’ @10 β’ No scaling in XFCE (by Jan on 2024-06-03 10:02:03 GMT from The Netherlands)
Sorry, not 25% but magnification of 125%
20 • Scaling in Xfce (by Jesse on 2024-06-03 10:34:47 GMT from Canada)
@10: "I used to use XFCE but switched to Cinnamon due to display scaling. I can set the display to 125% in Cinnamon, whereas XFCE doesn't have a straightforward fix."
Xfce has had fractional display scaling since the 4.16 days. You can adjust the scale to any percentage in the Display module.
21 • light desktops (by James on 2024-06-03 11:19:52 GMT from United States)
there are only two kinds of desktops, usable and bloated. I prefer usable.
22 • Scaling in Xfce (by Pumpino on 2024-06-03 11:51:06 GMT from Australia)
@20: Yes, but have you tried it? After doing hours of research online, the best solution I discovered was adding "xrandr --output eDP-1 --auto --scale 1.6x1.6" to Session and Startup-> Application Autostart, and setting windows scaling to 2 in Appearance-> Settings-> Windows Scaling.
This works fine for most things, but I found that gFTP and VLC weren't displayed correctly.
23 • poll (by grindstone on 2024-06-03 12:08:53 GMT from United States)
So far, probably as we might've guessed among self-selected DW weekly respondents
Do lightweight desktops provide enough features for you?
Yes - I prefer light desktops: 210 (29%)
Yes - I can use light desktops comfortably: 208 (29%)
No - I prefer more features: 204 (28%)
I prefer something even lighter (window manager or console): 106 (15%)
When starting-out, more features might be comforting/useful to explore. Maybe this split is just how things work (at least for this cohort).
24 • Desktops (by RetiredIT on 2024-06-03 12:19:12 GMT from United States)
I have been using the Gnome2/MATE desktop since 2006, beginning with Ubuntu 5.10. Thought it is not a light desktop I know it well and it offers efficiency and speed on a daily basis. I have tried many other desktops but for me nothing beats Gnome2/MATE for getting work done.
25 • Xfce scaling (by Jesse on 2024-06-03 12:34:02 GMT from Canada)
@22: "Yes, but have you tried it?"
Yes, I've been happily using it for years with no problems.
26 • Desktop environments (by Vinfall on 2024-06-03 02:45:21 GMT from Hong Kong)
For newcomers, it's better to start with a live CD and simplify *feel* it. Some DEs are awesome but certain distros may ship notoriously awful defaults. My recommedation would be Debian testing/KDE neon for KDE Plasma, any mainstream distro for GNOME (maybe Tails if I have to name one) and Kali for Xfce. Things like MATE or Deepin are usually tied (but not limited) to a few specific distros so no need for recommendation. If you are interested in WM, try Manjaro-sway.
One thing that makes choosing difficult is the protocol/implementation. With more distros shipping Wayland support and many by default, many people may find the transition from Xorg a bit confusing. Similarly, PulseAudio -> PipeWire/ALSA, not to mention WM only enviroments like i3 or Sway.
27 • Another vote for good old XFCE (by Quazatron on 2024-06-03 13:51:11 GMT from Portugal)
During the GNOME 3 wars I switched to XFCE and have been with it ever since.
I've tried MATE, Cinnamon LXQT and Plasma. All have nice qualites but XFCE is where I call home. It does what it does and gets out of your way. Simple, effective and elegant.
As for my opinions on GNOME: sorry, I'm not about to turn my workstation into a Fischer-Price tablet.
28 • Distro's Default DE (by Otis on 2024-06-03 14:03:42 GMT from United States)
@26 etc... I'm currently running Alma Linux with its default Gnome. The usual tweaks (involving its "tweaks" tool) and of course the extensions ("just perfection" being the most important extension for me on Gnome) which have to be installed, result in exactly what I want (as mentioned in previous post: transparent bottom bar etc).
Fast, responsive instantly, as good looking as you make it. I'm glad I checked this out, the Alma distro and Gnome. Things have changed nicely. I can say that this set up would be just fine for a newcomer, simple to install and tweak to your liking.
Also, Alma is basically Red Hat Enterprise; there is a lot here. And it's free.
I didn't like Gnome at first, years ago. It seems okay now. But, I'll still soon be abandoning this for my good ole XFCE on very good ole MX Linux (which I always do no matter how impressed I am with the distro I'm checking out).
29 • Desktop environments / WMs (by Robert on 2024-06-03 14:35:34 GMT from United States)
I can probably be comfortable using most anything at this point.
I have the most experience with KDE Plasma and that's still my preferred interface today.
I spend a year or two with Wayfire, but have since moved on to Sway. I like these a lot too.
Xfce is fine too, as are MATE and Lxqt.
Basically any environment from lightweight to full featured I will just add the applications I want/need and be happy. The only environment I'm not happy in is GNOME. I can function, but it makes me hate my life.
30 • Xfce & MATE Still Matter! (by TonyVanDam on 2024-06-03 14:42:55 GMT from United States)
I do not consider Xfce "lightweight" as much as I consider it just as "middleweight" as MATE is. But nonetheless, both DEs still matter for someone like myself that do not want to be bother with too much bloat &/or too many dependencies. For my desktop & laptop, using apps to do work [and some play!] are more important than having special effects & pretty colorful graphic designs.
31 • XFCE for me (by John on 2024-06-03 15:47:50 GMT from Canada)
I find that XFCE has the best overall mix of features and performance. Like others here have said, it works great for me with HIDPI screen using a single xrandr command to scale appropriately.
Only thing I miss is Wobbly Windows effect :-( KDE has it, Cinnamon has it, Zorin desktop uses "Jelly mode"... Come on XFCE! :-)
32 • Do lightweight desktops offer enough features for you? No, they do not. (by Giorgio on 2024-06-03 16:27:57 GMT from Italy)
"There are indeed a lot of open source desktops and window managers available." But only two are complete and powerful: GNOME (easy to set up, but heavy) and KDE Plasma (difficult to set up, but lighter). The rest IMHO are technologically outdated niche projects.
33 • Developing for Gnome vs. Developing for KDE (by Flaviano Matos on 2024-06-03 16:45:37 GMT from Brazil)
This is my version of joke that I read years ago. Some parts of it I will not repeat because I don't know if they are still true.
Developing for Gnome:
- use GTK;
- give any name for your project. It doesn't matter. It will be hided behind a generic name;
- think of the basic features that may be needed. Don't think of any more;
- make some configurations available, but not many. Hide them;
- put your menus on the title bar.
Developing for KDE:
- use Qt and KDElibs. Don't worry about your program depending on 20 packages to run;
- think of a creative name for your project. If it has a "K" or a "Q" in it, it's a plus;
- think of all the features that you user may need. Then add some more;
- give as many options as possible, think of some more for the next versions;
- include a menu bar and a hamburger menu as an option.
- leave the title bar clean.
34 • Do ligfhtweight desktops offer... (by zephyr on 2024-06-03 16:47:31 GMT from United States)
What constitutes a lightweight distro? Often enough a 2 or 3 gigabyte and above are described as lightweight. Personally, any distro over1gb would be heavy. So many disro's are compiled with so much unused and unneeded applications, I would imagine why a lot of Linux users shy away from very large volume distributions.
35 • Clipboard actions are the killer feature in Trinity (by K.U. on 2024-06-03 16:59:44 GMT from Finland)
I am running a minimal install of an older version of Q4OS with Trinity desktop environment. It is very light, it takes just 80 MB RAM at startup. Still, Trinity has all the bells and whistles including Klipper clipboard manager with clipboard actions!
With clipboard actions I can open dictionaries, translatiors, searches or any application or command very quickly using the clipboard selection as an argument.
I feel so dependent on clipboard actions that I feel hard to switch over to something that doesn't support them.
36 • @34 lightweight distros (by anticapitalista on 2024-06-03 17:14:02 GMT from Greece)
IMO lightweight isn't to do with the size of the iso file, but how much RAM/CPU is used when running it.
37 • Do lightweight desktops offer... (by zephyr on 2024-06-03 18:19:54 GMT from United States)
@36: Not all distro's are created equal. Totally agree with you.
38 • Lightweight desktops (by Tim on 2024-06-03 19:02:56 GMT from United States)
I prefer lightweight desktops. I used Openbox for years, then I hunted around a little and now I've used Awesome for several more years.
Of course, I still use X and I am becoming concerned that everything is pushing torwasd Wayland.
39 • There IS and Xfce with compiz (by Bob on 2024-06-03 19:12:10 GMT from United States)
@31 "Only thing I miss is Wobbly Windows effect :-( KDE has it, Cinnamon has it, Zorin desktop uses "Jelly mode"... Come on XFCE! :-)"
...and it boots with wobbly windows already running. It's a Manjaro spin, and runs great. The builder has been creating this spin for years.
SbK Xfce-Compiz 24.0.0
https://forum.manjaro.org/t/sbk-xfce-compiz-24-0-0/162211
40 • Xfce scaling (by Pumpino on 2024-06-03 20:53:45 GMT from Australia)
@25. Can you please tell me exactly which settings you change and to what values? I would like to have XFCE as a viable option once again. Thanks.
41 • LXQt 2 (by myself on 2024-06-03 21:10:23 GMT from New Zealand)
Thanks for the review! I have been glued to Cinnamon since it began, but keep looking at other desktops to see what they are doing (right, new, interesting and wrong). When the new LXQt 2.0 arrived, it was just too late for Lubuntu 24.04, so I've been waiting to see who makes it available first. The review makes me want to install it and run my own testing.
42 • WM / DE tables (by grindstone on 2024-06-03 22:01:52 GMT from United States)
WM & DE comparison tables on wikipedia, FWIW:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_X_Window_System_desktop_environments
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_X_window_managers
43 • How to use xrandr for scaling XFCE desktop: (by John on 2024-06-03 22:34:41 GMT from Canada)
How to use xrandr for scaling XFCE desktop:
Create this file: 45custom_xrandr-settings
in this folder: /etc/X11/Xsession.d/
put this one line in the file:
xrandr --output eDP-1 --scale 0.8x0.8
Note - the values used here (0.8x0.8) work for me on my 3000x2000 screen. Adjust as necessary for your screen
44 • How to use xrandr for scaling XFCE desktop (by Pumpino on 2024-06-03 23:18:32 GMT from Australia)
@43. Thanks. Do you have windows scaling set to 1 or 2 in Appearance-> Settings-> Windows Scaling?
45 • Larger DEs are not necessarily slower (by session on 2024-06-03 23:28:05 GMT from United States)
On modernβeven low-endβdesktops, performance with light vs heavy DEs is effectively indistinguishable. But on really old systems, like my old P4 Celeron desktop that I used for decades, DEs that use more RAM are not necessarily slower, and a lot of UI performance comes down to things like compile optimizations, window manager redraw rate, etc.
46 • Do lightweight desktops offer enough features for you? No, they do not. (by Alvaro on 2024-06-04 02:26:53 GMT from Italy)
I prefer MATE: a middle-weight and complete alternative to the bigger desktops (GNOME & KDE). I like it especially in the "vanilla" version, without the customizations that some distributions include.
47 • KDE (by rb on 2024-06-04 03:47:33 GMT from United States)
I have used KDE since the 3.0 days when it was the alternative to Win98. Except for the horrible bumpy switch to KDE 4.0 i have always enjoyed it. Gnome has gone in a crazy direction for my use case and I just don't understand the forced workflow. LXQt is nice, but too simple. Nate Graham is a strong force on the KDE team and the team has really brought it into the present day. I really enjoy being able to customize things to what works best for me.
I will probably keep with KDE for many years to come.
48 • Lightweight environments (by Martin on 2024-06-04 05:14:56 GMT from Czechia)
DEs being lightweight is a great bonus but modularity is the most important for me so I can mix and match window managers and applications across DEs that most fit my needs.
49 • Lightweight or not? (by De Schatberg on 2024-06-04 05:39:57 GMT from The Netherlands)
I don't really understand why people spend so much energy discussing resource usage and spreading some urban legends like KDE is lighter than Gnome, Xfce is more responsive than Gnome and KDE...
That's just not true.
LxQt is an outdated and ugly WM that lacks features and uses as much resources as KDE. Mate wasn't good when it came out, and it gets worse with every new iteration - just look at Ayatana. It's outdated, ugly, lacks features, and yet it's no lighter than Gnome 46.
Xfce is the worst of all. Not only is it outdated, ugly, featureless, and memory hungry, but it is also technically flawed, which makes it obsolete.
The only good thing about it is that it is easily customizable, which is basically irrelevant. The vast majority of average users expect the system to come with a decent appearance, properly preconfigured and ready to use, and they don't want to be forced to customize and fiddle with it to make it usable before they can start working.
It seems that most people (commenters and reviewers) do not really understand how RAM management works, what all is responsible for memory consumption, and why some systems feel faster and more responsive than others.
The worst part is when people start comparing apples and oranges. Yes, I know, they are all fruits, just like coffee, but...
If I take Gnome 46 and type "80 x 1.024", it'll show me the result. If I type "wri", it'll offer me to start Writer. If I type "(insert text)", it'll show me the installed application (if there is one), the application available for installation (if there is one), a local document, music, video, etc. (if there is one), a web browser search link... Weather, world clocks, calendar, and notifications are all nicely organized in a single panel, and it looks damn good. In terms of usability, it beats the hell out of all other GUIs, especially on laptops. Move three fingers up and it opens Activities. Move the icon on a virtual desktop and the application opens on that desktop. Swipe left or right with two fingers, and you can browse desktops. Swipe down with three fingers, and you're back on the selected desktop.
But what about Xfce? If I want similar functionality, I have to add Cerebro and half a dozen extra applications, and I still don't get fully comparable usability, but just a horribly ugly, technically flawed environment whose RAM usage will exceed that of Gnome - every single widget, extension, and applet will add 30, 50, or 80 MB to your memory consumption. Everything affects RAM, not just running services and RAM configuration, but even your file system. Something that people usually forget to take into the account.
Xfce (Xfvm) can't even scale. It still uses XPM/PNG graphics to draw window borders. Every rounded corner will have jagged corners ("staircase"). Taskbar icons do not scale properly. Thunar can't keep the correct spacing on the grid...
And why discuss RAM usage at all, when even the cheapest junk for 250 ~ 300 bucks comes with 4 GB RAM nowadays, and for a handful of bucks more you can get 8 GB RAM? Hack, when I think back to 2007 and my old Lenovo T61p, I already had 4 GB RAM in it. Nobody would or should use some ancient museum piece of hardware in 2024. You can't really use a Pentium 2 for productive work, not even for surfing.
https://ibb.co/nmD0Znm
https://ibb.co/kqvGvcq
https://ibb.co/rt75kgB
https://ibb.co/SXPTk7B
https://ibb.co/yV3rM72
50 • @ 49--update. (by R. Cain on 2024-06-04 10:17:00 GMT from United States)
"...The worst part is when people start comparing apples and oranges. Yes, I know, they are all fruits, just like coffee, but..."
...and tomatoes; don't forget the tomatoes...
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.β
--Miles Kington
51 • Economical DE (by Gary W on 2024-06-04 12:15:57 GMT from Australia)
@35 Thanks for mentioning Trinity. I find it fits very well on my eeepc 701, by way of EXE GNU/Linux, based on devuan. Only 50Mb when started, and 90Mb when logged in to the GUI.
However, the eeepc is not my everyday computer, on which I run XFCE. Like many here, I find it the best compromise between features, configurability, and performance. It's also a 'traditional' or 'old school' desktop, unlike the 18-wheeler KDE or the clown car GNOME.
52 • Tik Installer (by Pomme de Terre nouvelle on 2024-06-04 17:32:15 GMT from Germany)
I like the concept of the "immutable" distros, such as Aeon, Silverblue or Vanilla OS, and therefore try them once in a while. I'm looking forward to trying Aeon RC2 because I'm curious of the new tik installer. All of the mentioned distros, but also Fedora or the "Calamares" crowd, have terrible installers, esp. with regards to partitioning.
Debian's old school installer (around since Woody!) still takes the cake. Concerning the partitioner it takes the whole bakery. So sad.
53 • Different desktops for different penguins (by Sith hobbit on 2024-06-04 21:15:11 GMT from Chile)
@49 I'm glad you enjoy using gnome that much. I don't. The thing is that gnome is very opinionated about how you use it, and for folks like me who grew up with those old pentiums, those opinions don't make a lot of sense. Why type names or swipe with a variable number of fingers when just clicking, clicking, double clicking does it? Gnome, with it's extremely rounded corners, fat buttons and lack of options looks as ridiculous to me as other DE's do to you.
So, when you say that people want a nice looking and efficient desktop from the get-go I agree. We just differ on what that means. And that's good.
54 • DE's and systemd (by ThomasAnderson on 2024-06-04 21:57:22 GMT from Australia)
It's funny how systemd keeps coming up in these areas. Normally nobody would think about systemd and a desktop environment, however, it is relevant especially for Gnome, which is dependant upon systemd to function, since Gnome 3.34.
You can still install Gnome on non-systemd setups however they will pull in systemd related files. There is a good article on the Gentoo wiki on this, however it requires patching.
Making your entire desktop dependant upon systemd feels like it is contrary to the spirit of Linux and OSS.
Meanwhile, other DE's like KDE, XFCE, Mate can all function on non-systemd systems without issue.
Of course, if you just run a bare bones install with a windows manager then there is also no issue.
It is unclear to me why Gnome has decided on this course of action, to make their DE dependant on systemd, but it means for me at least, I will never be using Gnome.
55 • Gnome (by Otis on 2024-06-04 21:57:42 GMT from United States)
@53 I do not understand why there are posts about Gnome being non-configurable to one's liking. I wish they allowed screen shots here, as I'd show you my Gnome desktop on Alma Linux; for all purposes it has the appearance and functionality of XFCE. That's the way I like it. As posted previously, all one has to do is acquire Gnome Extensions ("Just Perfection" is a main driver for many Gnome users) and tweak away. You're not stuck with the top bar, or "extremely rounded corners" (?) or "fat buttons," etc. Are you joking? Being hyperbolic? Because it's silly what you're saying.
56 • Great Review of LXQT 2.0 on EndeavourOS (by Tom Darais on 2024-06-04 23:07:54 GMT from United States)
Hi Jesse, great review on LXQT 2.0 on EndeavourOS, it was very validating to read thoughts expressed that are similar to my own. After considering many options I've decided that LXQT 2.0 on EndeavourOS makes good strategic sense as I wean systems off Windows: 1) the UI is just right, 2) the DE is fast and consumes minimal resources, 3) the next version will be Wayland ready "out of the box," 4) the LXTQ team seems to have the needed resources to move the DE forward in a timely fashion, and 5) an LXQT 2.0 EndeavourOS combination rocks because it's Arch and easy at the same time. I've had success with the EndeavourOS with LXQT 2.0 on a few installs now an it has worked great. An interesting article can be found here on there being much to like about LXQT updating to QT6 and soon to be Wayland ready: https://www.theregister.com/2024/04/20/lxqt2_updates_to_qt6/ .
57 • 54 β’ DE's and systemd (by ThomasAnderson... (by R. Cain on 2024-06-04 23:49:41 GMT from United States)
"...It is unclear to me why Gnome has decided on this course of action, to make their DE dependant on systemd..."
Is it also unclear to you as to why the developers of entire, MAJOR, distributions make their complete and total π
πππππππππππ dependent on systemd?
Perhaps some (If not a majority of) the pushback against systemd is that most users of Linux are more sophisticated than given credit for, and find it not only indefensible, but totally unconscionable, that the systemd initialization system should require 1.3 MILLION lines of code while SysV (sysvinit) has 11,600, and runit requires a grand total of 1000.
Please see "Comment #44: init comparison (by Jesse on 2024-05-28...") in last week's DistroWatch Comment section.
This is the reason why I refused to upgrade / update one of the tightest, best, most well-written OSs, ever (Mint 13, Maya, excepted)--Linux Mint 17.3--to Mint 18, when C. Lefabvre decided to follow Ubuntu, blindly, and base, totally and completely, his new Mint 18 on Ubuntu's new systemd-based offering. This, without his hallmark: the superlative, almost Herculean effort of re-writing and FIXING what was wrong with the Ubuntu upon which he based his Mint offering. All this was ended with Clement Lefebvre's unquestioning adoption of Ubuntu's newest LTS version.
Offered without comment--
This is also the exact moment at which Mint was toppled from its unprecedented years-long run as DistroWatch's number-one distribution...and replaced by MX-Linux, which has, to this day, occupied that number-one position (no further comment on systemd, or lack thereof).
---------------------------------
cf. ...
Systemd β Progress Through Complexity
https://www.ocsmag.com/systemd-progress-through-complexity/
"...System V and init are probably not ready to be relayed [sic] [relegated? ] to history, especially not when Systemd is the current proposed alternative. It simply does not have what it takes to be the superior functional and evolutionary replacement..."
"...As far as Systemd is concerned, I am concerned, because it is a technology that does not correlate to knowledge or experience, and it poses a great risk to the prosperity of Linux. Evolution has its ways of telling us when weβve done something wrong, so it will be interesting to judge what is happening today15-20 years from now. I do not foresee bright times. And you might as well practice Linux installations, since they may be the answer to when Systemd goes bad, as I cannot foresee any easy, helpful way out of trouble...
58 • Gnome, and the init leper (by Mr. Moto on 2024-06-05 01:33:32 GMT from Philippines)
@55, "I do not understand why there are posts about Gnome being non-configurable to one's liking." Probably because it's much easier to repeat like an echo (or a parrot) than to experiment and do things. When Gnome 3 was first released, I thought it might be Gnu/Linux's own Windows 8. (Remember that fiasco?) But this is open-source after all, and then came the tweaks from inside and out. Zorin uses Gnome to look like Windows. I'm still a fan of Plasma, but I removed my last install of it this year and replaced it with Gnome. Gnome is just as if not more configurable than Plasma. In my case, after the abandonment of Plasma's Latte Dock, Gnome works much better for me. My wife's laptop has Ubuntu Jammy configured as she likes it. I have Ubuntu Noble and Debian testing configured as I like them. Screenshots? I wouldn't bother. I've posted links to Flicker showing Gnome and Plasma side by side looking like twin desktops. Still, the "Gnome forced workflow" myth persists. For a somewhat dyslexic old fart like me there are also other benefits to Gnome (or Plasma), which I won't go into here.
@ "15-20 years from now. I do not foresee bright times. And you might as well practice Linux installations, since they may be the answer to when Systemd goes bad" In 2014 a movement was born to boycott Systemd. They even tried to hook Linus Torvalds, and he wasn't interested. Ten years gone, and eight years since your quoted article was written. I've installed Ubuntu 24.04, and I can keep it without reinstalling for 10 or more years, unless I wish to. Linux Mint is doing quite well. Ask Clem Lefebvre. The page hit rankings here are not a mirror of the universe. MX Linux offers things besides init to DW users, hence its popularity. It's fine, just not my cup-of tea. You want to see how popular non-systemd distros are? Look it up, here or on a search engine, and see how many derivatives of Devuan there are compared to Debian. It's just like Debian. I've installed it. I even tried different inits for fun, with Gnome in some cases no less, to be evil. The latest wunderkind is Void. It's not bad. I've tried it. Yet it sits in the mid-nineties in H.P.D. here. I'm 78, so I expect Gnu/Linux and Systemd to be around long after I'm gone and the sky won't have fallen. I may be wrong, but I doubt it. I'm not for or against Systemd. I'm just against baseless fear-mongering.
59 • S6 Init With 66 Management (by Tom Darais on 2024-06-05 02:25:37 GMT from United States)
I wish that S6 with 66 management got more attention. It would be so cool if they were adopted by more Arch distributions. You can learn more at https://web.obarun.org, and more about S6 and 66 at https://www.skarnet.org/software/s6/ . It is supposed to be a next generation init system.
60 • Lightweight and init redux (by Mr. Moto on 2024-06-05 03:02:41 GMT from Philippines)
Just adding: I said I expect Gnu/Linux and Systemd to be around long after I'm gone. I expect the same for OpenRC, runit, Sysvinit and others, as long as someone competent is willing to maintain them. (A shout-out to Jesse here. As they say in the US: Thank you for your service.)
I am, however, irked by the useless teeth-gnashing over things like init, RAM use and ISO size. There was a distro called Star, based on Devuan, available with Openbox, JWM and XFCE. Live-disk with XFCE used around 240 MB RAM. ISO was around 600 MB. Came with the basics and everything else could be added from the repos. I mentioned it here around 2 or 3 years ago. It got no love, here or anywhere else. Still available from Sourceforge, but it's 2 years old. One would think that if there is such a pressing need, or at least a desire for these attributes, something like Star would have been a big hit. But no! It withered on the vine. Open-source is supposed to be about choice, but when choice is available, most people would rather complain and call for boycotts. Devuan and Star are good examples of the real indifference among most of the loud ones.
61 • Lightweight environments (by Angelico on 2024-06-05 03:48:11 GMT from Brazil)
I use #!++ (Debian + Openbox)
X60s (backpack machine)
T430 (main machine)
My wife uses Linux Mint Xfce (X301).
At work (a public school in Brazil) I use Linux Mint Cinnamon.
62 • Lightweight Desktop (by zephyr on 2024-06-05 07:24:01 GMT from United States)
@60 Mr. Moto: Star is no longer maintained, the maintainer is most likely deceased. Ozi Traveler lived in Australia. We both built and collaborated Star, Zephyr, and Crowz Linux. Zephyr being discontinued to allow Crowz to be the only distro. I haven't heard from Ozi Traveller for a couple years, we once communicated daily.
63 • Different desktops for different penguins, by Sith hobbit from Chile (by De Schatberg on 2024-06-05 10:54:56 GMT from The Netherlands)
@53:
(1) The thing is that gnome is very opinionated about how you use it ...
(2) Why type names or swipe ... when just clicking ... does it?
(3) Gnome, with it's ... fat buttons and lack of options ...
1. You could say the same thing about any other GUI, including the one you prefer, but the fact is that the user has to learn how to use the product and relearn it over time. Think about shifting gears in a car. Long or short levers, on the floor or on the steering column, levers or buttons on the steering wheel, with or without an extra differential lever ...
2. Because it's more efficient. Every (new) laptop has a (large) touchpad. Most of the new computers sold are laptops. There are also touchpads for desktop computers. GUIs are not designed for historical devices. It's simple logic. All you have to do is adapt and change the way you work. Make it work for you instead of fighting it.
3. Lack of options is an advantage for the vast majority of people who use computers for work. Lack of options is a disadvantage for a tiny minority of users who work on their GUIs, who like to tinker and customize, and who are inflexible and unable or unwilling to learn and adapt. "Big buttons are coming because of their advantages.
As for "opinionated" ... well, that is simply a matter of (your) perspective, but the "right way" is not about your personal preferences, but about objective observation and facts, and so certain things can only be done one way, but not any other way, because that would be a "wrong way". You can't build an amphibious 6-seater off-road racing car with 2 seats that flies and carries 750 tons of rocks out of the pit while transporting 50 people in comfortable seats from city to city. Jeep or Ferrari? Truck or bus?
Desktop themes as an example:
A theme must be light, must have dark panels, and the dark theme must have all windows dark, but the light theme must have some light and some dark windows.
Must - for optimal usability (do not confuse this with your personal preferences!).
Transparency is a no-go from a usability perspective, unless it's done the "Apple way" - an opaque, bluish image where you can't see through to what's behind the surface.
Dark themes should never be the default, they should always be optional. They are wrong in most situations, but necessary in some other (rare) cases. Film editing or professional image manipulation is usually done in dark rooms.
Light themes should always be the default, since most people work in well-lit workspaces, and most users do office-type work. Creating or reading documents. However, all imaging and some multimedia applications need to use dark theme windows (on a light theme). For example, image viewers, image manipulation programs, and video players. Again, this is not a matter of personal taste, but usability, and we are talking about "optimal default settings in most cases", not not being able to change them. The idea behind "optimal defaults" is that the system is set up so that no one has to change the defaults because they are already working as well as they can, but they are allowed ("forced") to make them worse because of personal preference.No more "opinionated".
Not following these rules would result in a "zebra look": dark screen border, light panel, dark background, light window frame, dark movie.
https://ibb.co/vj043kD
https://ibb.co/N93K9Pq
https://ibb.co/KF6W3SN
In other words, it is pointless to argue about "right" or "wrong" and call "right" "opinionated" just because you do not like it. The point is that you are not "forced" to use it if you don't like it, that you can use whatever you prefer even if your choice is "wrong", and the point is to tell you that something is not right or wrong just because you think it is.
I do agree on "different desktops for different penguins" though.
64 • Just a couple of screenshots (by De Schatberg on 2024-06-05 11:45:52 GMT from The Netherlands)
"Zebra look" Themenig done wrong (Tuxedo OS 3, KDE Plasma 6)
https://ibb.co/3pkRDkS
"Fat buttons" done wrong (KDE Plasma 6)
https://ibb.co/GWBCz3B
"Fat buttons" done right (Gnome 43)
https://ibb.co/LkSSwy6
Gnome Classic is included in every Fedora Workstation installation by default. You can select it on the login screen.
Menu and taskbar extensions can also be manually enabled and used with standard Gnome.
https://ibb.co/g98zmqT
https://ibb.co/LgfFJCX
Light theme done right (only in Gnome)
https://ibb.co/0BkP9zh
65 • DE vs WM (by eb on 2024-06-05 14:56:32 GMT from France)
You like Linux ? so you like freedom !
Convince yourself a DE is useless, and try a simple slim WM, picking only the soft you need. Your computer will continue running fast, and you will keep it for a very long time ; it is ecological. I tried : Blackbox, Ratpoison, Openbox, and now I stick with Fluxbox, light & comfortable, that I recommend.
Thanks to Jesse.
66 • Gnome 46 vs other GUIs (by Sergio on 2024-06-05 15:02:40 GMT from Italy)
@49
"If I take Gnome 46... In terms of usability, it beats the hell out of all other GUIs, especially on laptops." Only on laptops! That is the problem!
67 • DE -Enlightenment vs. lightDE (by White_Wolf on 2024-06-05 15:21:35 GMT from Poland)
"This week we would like to hear from you about whether lightweight desktop environments such as LXQt and Enlightenment provide you with enough features, or do you desire full featured desktops?"
Putting Enlightenment as not enough featured is ridiculous. It has more features than Gnome...
68 • XFCE, wobbly windows and more... (by ric on 2024-06-05 15:51:02 GMT from United States)
@31, @39: Xfce can have wobbly windows and more.
as @39 mentioned, use compiz as the wm. one gets not only wobbly windows, but many other cool effects (eg, 3d cube, exploding windows, etc). if installing compiz, suggest installing - emerald; then, change compiz window decorations to use it. this will allow modifying the window decorations (eg buttons on left instead of default right, and more). these will add a bit of "bloat" over xfwm4 obviously, and may be tempermental.
another option, similar but without all the glitz as compiz and a bit more stable (on my systems) is to use kwin as the wm. 3 effects (and more) i particularly like are: wobbly windows, magic lamp, and exploding windows. it takes about 1/2 less ram as compiz. a suggested kwin minimal install is to use "--no-install-recommends" if on a debian base system; a bit different if on rpm or arch systems. also, need to get a few extra packages (eg. systemsettings (kwin), etc). dan, of miyolinux, has a few nice tutorials on youtube.
i used to use xfce4/kwin or xfce4/compiz but now on lxqt/kwin. it's a bit lighter on my system with mind/eye pleasing effects :-)
best of luck
cheers ~ peace
69 • Gnome 46 (by De Schatberg on 2024-06-05 17:00:00 GMT from The Netherlands)
@66: "Only on laptops! That is the problem!"
No, not really. It's just a little different. It takes a few minutes to get used to. Maybe a couple of days for the slow thinkers.
Pressing the Windows key opens and closes activities, and turning the mouse wheel changes workspaces.
70 • Gnome vs. not-Gnome (by Some Rando on 2024-06-05 20:32:47 GMT from United States)
You will never convince me that the objections people have to Gnome are not rooted in the fact that it doesn't look like Windows.
People, by and large, just want the familiar. Even after switching to a completely different OS, they still want their Windows 95-era taskbar on the bottom, Start menu at the left corner, and system tray at the right corner. Deviate from that at your peril.
But Gnome is the cleanest and most usable DE out there. It's designed from the ground up to provide a *better* workflow, not just one that you're already used to.
Of course you can use extensions to give it the traditional DE layout. But it works best in its intended form, with few extensions, if any. My advice is to learn the keybindings, use workspaces, use the super key. And it's 2024, the search prompt is your friend.
Gnome is the default desktop of nearly every *major* Linux distribution. (The only exceptions I can think of are Arch--which AFAIK doesn't have a default DE--and Slackware.), There's a reason for that.
71 • Faces of the evil DE, and counting Crowz (by Mr. Moto on 2024-06-06 02:54:24 GMT from Philippines)
@67, "Putting Enlightenment as not enough featured is ridiculous. It has more features than Gnome..". If I were to use a "light" desktop it may be Enlightenment, but to say it has more features than Gnome is downright silly.
@66, "Only on laptops! That is the problem!" I don't use a laptop unless necessary. I use Gnome and it works great.
Here are some screenshots. They are all Gnome on Ubuntu, Ultramarine and Armbian. They speak for themselves.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/164785504@N08/
@62, zephir, Sorry to hear about your collaborator. Star was a nice little distro for those wanting "light" and a full DE. Good luck with Crowz.
72 • Gnome/Computing in the future etc (by Otis on 2024-06-06 12:57:20 GMT from United States)
@58 ah Mr. Moto (may aunt had a parrot by that name, btw).. years ago Gnome was seen by XFCE and KDE users as some strange, short-lived anomaly that was just not going to be taken seriously in the Linux world. I felt similarly until recently, to be honest, up until just last week when I kept it as the default on my new install of Alma Linux.
It's one of the most configurable, inovative DEs out there now; maybe it always has been, I don't know because I was turned off by how different it was when I first gave it a try a few years ago.
But the differences are about the steps a user takes to customize Gnome, as opposed to Plasma and the others. You can do the very same things to all of those DEs, is my point.
73 • Portable software in Linux, how to? (by Jan on 2024-06-06 21:26:15 GMT from The Netherlands)
In the near future in the Chrome/Chromium browsers ad-blocking (and other) extensions are restricted.
I have always had 2 different browsers, so FF and Chrome, to anticipate on a crash of one (at an update).
Now I have to find 2 different FF-browsers.
In Windows my solution is to have FF installed, and FF-ESR-portable, if one crashes the other probably does not. All other forks of FF follow the update of Mozilla later, but as fast as possible, so do not qualify my 2-different browsers-solution.
Does anybody know how to install in Linux both FF and FF-ESR, both from the Mozilla-source (so not Flatpack or snap or whatever)?
I assume in Linux portable applications, within a Linux-installation, do not exist.
74 • Do You Prefer Lightweight Desktops (by TheAmnesiacPhilosopher on 2024-06-06 23:36:34 GMT from United States)
Yes. Yes I do.
75 • #73 - Portable software in Linux, how to? (by TheAmnesiacPhilosopher on 2024-06-06 23:41:33 GMT from United States)
@73 regarding installing Firefox or Firefox-ESR. Here are instructions for a Debian-based system if it helps...
https://sourceforge.net/projects/miyolinux/files/Files/mozilla-firefox/
76 • xrandr only (by John on 2024-06-07 00:26:18 GMT from Canada)
@44 - didn't change windows scaling in the Settings. Just left at 1, and let xrandr in the file adjust everything
77 • @73 Jan, Firefox double, @72 Otis, Gnome (by Mr. Moto on 2024-06-07 01:52:57 GMT from Philippines)
@ 73, "both FF and FF-ESR" Not so simple. They can be installed, (or the tarball can be downloaded and run as is) but only one will run without complex steps. Firefox creates a ".mozilla" folder for configuration. You'd need to add separate profiles and use separate commands for each install. I don't know what you mean by "follow the update of Mozilla later" or why it matters. Waterfox or Librewolf should work, and If you want the same profiles, just sign in to a Firefox account on each and sync your data.
https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=318597
@72, Glad you're enjoying Gnome. A lot of independent developers adding goodies (extensions) on an ongoing basis. (Mr. Moto was a movie detective played by Peter Lorre back in the old days. Supposedly Japanese, would be considered offensive today. Funny, but when I read "Otis" I think "Mayberry".)
78 • DE - enlightenment (by SSmith on 2024-06-07 03:27:31 GMT from Australia)
I thought Bohdi uses a fork of E and not E itself? i've been looking for a dist with Enlightenment as default, but can only fnd elive.
79 • gnome (by gnome on 2024-06-07 10:55:28 GMT from Germany)
@70 "You will never convince me that the objections people have to Gnome are not rooted in the fact that it doesn't look like Windows. People, by and large, just want the familiar. Even after switching to a completely different OS, they still want their Windows 95-era taskbar on the bottom, Start menu at the left corner, and system tray at the right corner"
Not even the fact that what people want (and MATE realised) was GNOME 2 (apps/places/system menu on the top left, systray on the top right) instead of XP/Vista/7 will?
80 • Gnome 2 (by De Schatberg on 2024-06-07 11:30:43 GMT from The Netherlands)
Some Rando: You will never convince me that the objections people have to Gnome are not rooted in the fact that it doesn't look like Windows. People, by and large, just want the familiar. Even after switching to a completely different OS, they still want their Windows 95-era taskbar on the bottom, Start menu at the left corner, and system tray at the right corner.
gnome: Not even the fact that what people want (and MATE realised) was GNOME 2 (apps/places/system menu on the top left, systray on the top right) instead of XP/Vista/7 will?Β
Gnome 2 (MATE)... that's also something that most people don't want, so he's right. ;) :)
81 • @73. Firefox + Firefox-ESR installed in Linux (by Jan on 2024-06-07 11:57:19 GMT from The Netherlands)
@75+@77 Thank for your comments.
It is now clear to me that in Linux, both installed Firefox-regular + Firefox-esr (one of them portable) can not be easy to realize.
A solution is then to install one of them as a fork (which i dislike) and the other as original. So for instance Waterfox + Firefox-esr.
The problem i see with forks in general is that it is maintained by a small management, so sensitive for bad continuity/security-upgrades. But it is as it is.
82 • Firefox + Firefox-ESR installed in Linux (by De Schatberg on 2024-06-07 12:14:24 GMT from The Netherlands)
"It is now clear to me that in Linux, both installed Firefox-regular + Firefox-esr (one of them portable) can not be easy to realize.
The problem i see with forks in general is that it is maintained by a small management, so sensitive for bad continuity/security-upgrades."
You can install a regular Firefox first and then install the Firefox ESR fork, which is maintained by the company and has security in mind.
https://mullvad.net/en/help/install-mullvad-browser
83 • some rando, I am (by some rando on 2024-06-07 14:00:19 GMT from Germany)
@80 So do most people on Linux want LXDE or KDE instead...which in turn have never been dominant in these parts, unlike those two versions of GNOME?
Maybe I should have said "people *wanted*". The uproar and change started when GNOME 2 disappeared from the repos, after all not when LXDE came to the scene after all, but has since also subsided?
84 • Firefox fear, @81 (by Wally on 2024-06-07 14:03:06 GMT from Australia)
@81- Good grief, man! If you're gonna fret, worry big, like Mozilla packing it in since they ain't doing so well, and then the world would belong to Google and the fruit company. Waterfox and Firewolf have been around a while, and they are fine. So what if the updates might be a few days behind! Are you protecting nuclear secrets? @82 suggests Mullvad, which is newer, and also probably fine. Any of them will do. If you must have the genuine brand, create a second user, download and extract the Firefox tarball to this user's home folder. Google for available instructions. (It's easy.) If by some strange occurrence your own precious Firefox should die (doubtful!), you can switch users and go from there.
85 • Statistics vs. Surveys (by De Schatberg on 2024-06-07 14:50:39 GMT from The Netherlands)
@83: You misunderstood my writing, Some Rando/some rando (@70, @83). You were right, but the gnome (@79; user: gnome!) was wrong. There are not many statistics on the topic, and only one where I can share the link.
https://eylenburg.github.io/de_comparison.htm
https://www.zdnet.com/article/gnome-vs-kde-this-means-war/
https://www.developer.com/guides/gnome-vs-kde-in-open-source-desktops/
86 • Firefox + Firefox-ESR installed in Linux (by Jan on 2024-06-07 19:41:59 GMT from The Netherlands)
@82
That advice seems to me exactly according my preferences (maintained by organizations in stead of individuals).
@84
My utter paranoia w.r.t. distro/software security and continuity grew on very bad experiences with Linux distros, software and browser extensions. A common at those was that they were made by brilliant high motivated individuals, who after some time got into a dispute or lost interest or got other priorities.
87 • Stolen Identity :-P (by real Some Rando on 2024-06-07 23:19:19 GMT from United States)
#85 (De Schatberg): I am the one true Some Rando (#70). The German at #83 is an imposter. Maybe they want to benefit from my good looks and excellent reputation (or maybe there is just some unintended confusion).
I think most people who've used Gnome like Gnome. I was only addressing those that have objections to it. It's a matter of choice, and it's okay if someone prefers a Windows-95 design for their desktop. I just think people are missing out if they don't bother to examine the workflow that Gnome encourages.
Everything you (De Schatberg) have posted on the subject is well-reasoned, IMO.
88 • This week's poll. (by R. Cain on 2024-06-07 23:57:20 GMT from United States)
Only _28%_ of the respondents to this week's poll want more features in their distros!
There are two ways to interpret these results: (1) jubilation; (2) despair.
(1)--Look how many people are wise to (or have gotten wise to) the false logic and siren-song of the "bigger, faster, more feature-filled, has-to-be-better" crowd (developers AND their peers).
(2)--Look at how many haven't.
Number of Comments: 88
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Gnoppix Linux
Gnoppix is a Debian and Kali Linux-based distribution which can be run from a DVD, USB thumb drive or from a local drive. It can resume previous sessions while running in a live mode. The distribution attempts to clean up after itself, removing all traces of its use from the computer or used media. Prior to version 22, Gnoppix was a Knoppix-based distribution and live medium featuring the GNOME desktop.
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