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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • LXQT (by ThomasAnderson on 2024-06-03 00:45:15 GMT from Australia)
Good comparison of desktops in this edition.
The only thing lacking for LXQT are some decent themes. Get that sorted and it's brilliant, low mem, fast and responsive, does everything you need it to.
2 • LXQt (by John on 2024-06-03 00:58:39 GMT from United States)
One of the things that people might not realize with LXQt is that it will run just about any window manager you want, even if it ships with OpenBox. So if you're looking to theme and are used to GTK-based desktops like Gnome, XFCE, you can use the XFWM from XFCE and easily use what you're used to with Gsettings or lxappearance. If you're looking to do the same with a QT-based setup, Kwin is Plasma's basic window manager, and you can use Kvantum to tweak it to whatever Plasma theme you want: most Plasma 5 and 6 themes have kvantum settings.
LXQt as a desktop environment is pretty flexible. There are already good experiments run by the team testing LabWC (an openbox clone for Wayland) as the compositor for a full Wayland environment. With the same minor tweaking, you can also use LXQt 2.0 with Kwin to try out a lightweight Wayland experience.
3 • Lightweight Desktops (by dude on 2024-06-03 01:00:02 GMT from United States)
I use Xfce, because it's lighter weight that Cinnamon, MATE or Gnome. I don't need a bunch of unnecessary desktop features to hog my system resources. Right now, I'm running a minimal Debian VM with Xfce using UTM virtualization software on a Macbook Air with an M1 aarch processor. It's very fast. Much faster than any WinTel PC.
4 • preferred desktop (by denflen on 2024-06-03 01:12:01 GMT from United States)
While I'm not sure it is even supported anymore, I still enjoy LXDE desktop. It is available to install through the Lubuntu distro. Someday I will probably be forced use LXQT, but not yet
5 • looking forward to cosmic (by J.D. Laub on 2024-06-03 01:32:10 GMT from United States)
I've been enjoying the GNOME-based COSMIC DE of pop22.04 and am looking forward to the Rust-based release due late 2024.
6 • LXQt (by Brad on 2024-06-03 01:36:25 GMT from United States)
I tried it back in the "0." days and found it lacking, compared to Plasma which was my default.
I might consider trying it, if I can add a few things to it to make it a bit more "heavyweight". It seems to be available for Manjaro, so I might try it on an older laptop that I can use for distro-hopping.
7 • light DE (by SM on 2024-06-03 02:37:29 GMT from United States)
I am with denflen on using LXDE. Even if it is not supported anymore I still install LXDE on all my computers. LXQT is heaver and slower on older computers than LXDE and LXDE does everything I need and feel very comfortable using it. If it ain't broke.... and LXDE is the perfect DE with openbox at least for me. Been using it since 2012 and will continue to do so for as long as possible.
8 • LXQT (by vern on 2024-06-03 02:55:00 GMT from United States)
I have a laptop that I use very little. Mostly use watching dvd videos that I have converted to mkv files. Its only a i3 upc. Xubuntu works well with it. Actually Ubuntu worked good too. But after reading Jesse's review of LXQT and ArchLinux, I might install that since VLC uses the QT library anyway.
The one item I don't like about LZQT is PCManFM-Qt. The icons are too far apart. Its looks strange. I prefer Nautilus actually. That aside, I'll stall install LXQT to see its performance, etc.
9 • LXDE & Openbox (by grindstone on 2024-06-03 03:00:47 GMT from United States)
Yeah, also love for LXDE+Openbox -- pcmanfm is a must for the (rare!) sane "Find" file method alone.
There are times, though, when Thunar comes through (gvfs etc) w/o thinking where it's work in something leaner. Still, what XFCE has become (for whatever reason) is not particularly what can be called "light". It's just that everything got even intolerably & unusably heavier. I just can't even imagine what people are thinking, but I am glad for what we still have.
If you look at the tiny stuff--something like Slitaz, it'll put up something pretty (but bare) in about 50MB of ram. Antix maybe 85, depending. It's always more work to make things lean, and it seems a truism that very few seem to be able to care about it.
The world remains interesting.
10 • No scaling in XFCE (by Pumpino on 2024-06-03 03:12:05 GMT from Australia)
I used to use XFCE but switched to Cinnamon due to display scaling. I can set the display to 125% in Cinnamon, whereas XFCE doesn't have a straightforward fix.
11 • Sway on Wayland (by Udo on 2024-06-03 05:06:02 GMT from Germany)
Moving rectangular and possibly overlapping areas (windows) around by using that pointing device is much too uncomfortable, too difficult and too slow. One key-press must be enough to switch applications or to readjust the window layout :-)
(Yes, I do use a mouse - but usually /inside/ of an application window.)
12 • LXQt (by user on 2024-06-03 06:15:06 GMT from Bulgaria)
LXQt is the perfect desktop middle ground for me. I use it with the full KDE Application Framework added thus resulting in a powerful, yet snappy, reliable, unbreakable QT desktop experience - regardless of the init system, regardless of *nix OS, the same exact experience on both Linux and BSD.
13 • Desktop Environments (by 0323pin on 2024-06-03 06:32:47 GMT from Sweden)
I've used Xfce, Enlightenment and LXQt at some point.
Also tested KDE, cinnamon and MATE but, none of these are for me.
All DEs feel dirty, with a lot of crap I don't need or, even want running on my systems. A tiling window manager is all I need and that's what I use.
14 • Desktop Environment (by dr.J on 2024-06-03 07:00:49 GMT from The Netherlands)
To date, desktop environments have not convinced me - neither in Linux nor in other systems, such as Android. They are just software and utility compilations from someone who thinks they know what you need. Very funny.
In this respect, Openbox (or other window managers such as Awesome or Fluxbox) is still my first choice. I can then design the rest, for example with a panel (instead of the build-in menus of Openbox), with Conky, a double-pane file manager and the “usual” utilities such as Screenshooter etc. and of course the theme und icons of my choice.
The result has been for decades: The desktop perfectly tailored to my needs. All this runs on an “endless system”, an Arch Rolling Release, no system changes (Plasma 4 to 5 to 6 etc.), no new installations. It works.It runs.
15 • Desktop Environment (by NULL on 2024-06-03 08:51:02 GMT from Germany)
In the past I loved DIY style minimal setups for desktop environments.
At the moment I need Wayland support and further, I enjoy having apps which have a similar look and feel and work good together.
I ended up using a modified/customized Gnome with a few plugins. Funnily enough, Gnomes killer applications for me are Evolution and the Online-Accounts plugins for Google and Microsoft accounts.
Everything is stable, no annoying paper cuts (looking at Xfce/Mate), runs fast enough even on my underpowered Netbook and thanks to dconf I can automatically provision all my machines with my prefered setup.
Still, waiting for KDE to get a usable E-Mail client (for years now) and once LXQT has full Wayland support, I might be tempted.
16 • DE (by XfceLover on 2024-06-03 09:37:24 GMT from Spain)
I think I've been using Xfce since I started using Linux at least 15 years ago. I've tried other DEs (heavy and light) several times over several days and I always come back to Xfce. Partly because I'm used to it, partly because it's a perfect balance between simplicity, convenience and features.
17 • DEs (by Otis on 2024-06-03 09:48:11 GMT from United States)
No matter the DE or even the distro I end up with pretty much the same look and feel and functionality on my machines:
- Transparent taskbar
- Taskbar on bottom
- No desktop icons
- Dark theme
- One workspace
- No effects
- App menu on left
- 12 hour clock, sound, network, battery on right
- Etc
If the DE can't do that, I'm back to XFCE, Gnome, or KDE. I dislike Mate, Cinnamon, IceWM, etc.
I'm boring and so is my home computing. Am I one of a kind or in the majority? Who cares?
18 • @10 • No scaling in XFCE (by Jan on 2024-06-03 09:59:19 GMT from The Netherlands)
You could set the monitor display resolution to a lower value, at which you reach a display magnification of circa 25%.
19 • @18 • @10 • No scaling in XFCE (by Jan on 2024-06-03 10:02:03 GMT from The Netherlands)
Sorry, not 25% but magnification of 125%
20 • Scaling in Xfce (by Jesse on 2024-06-03 10:34:47 GMT from Canada)
@10: "I used to use XFCE but switched to Cinnamon due to display scaling. I can set the display to 125% in Cinnamon, whereas XFCE doesn't have a straightforward fix."
Xfce has had fractional display scaling since the 4.16 days. You can adjust the scale to any percentage in the Display module.
21 • light desktops (by James on 2024-06-03 11:19:52 GMT from United States)
there are only two kinds of desktops, usable and bloated. I prefer usable.
22 • Scaling in Xfce (by Pumpino on 2024-06-03 11:51:06 GMT from Australia)
@20: Yes, but have you tried it? After doing hours of research online, the best solution I discovered was adding "xrandr --output eDP-1 --auto --scale 1.6x1.6" to Session and Startup-> Application Autostart, and setting windows scaling to 2 in Appearance-> Settings-> Windows Scaling.
This works fine for most things, but I found that gFTP and VLC weren't displayed correctly.
23 • poll (by grindstone on 2024-06-03 12:08:53 GMT from United States)
So far, probably as we might've guessed among self-selected DW weekly respondents
Do lightweight desktops provide enough features for you?
Yes - I prefer light desktops: 210 (29%)
Yes - I can use light desktops comfortably: 208 (29%)
No - I prefer more features: 204 (28%)
I prefer something even lighter (window manager or console): 106 (15%)
When starting-out, more features might be comforting/useful to explore. Maybe this split is just how things work (at least for this cohort).
24 • Desktops (by RetiredIT on 2024-06-03 12:19:12 GMT from United States)
I have been using the Gnome2/MATE desktop since 2006, beginning with Ubuntu 5.10. Thought it is not a light desktop I know it well and it offers efficiency and speed on a daily basis. I have tried many other desktops but for me nothing beats Gnome2/MATE for getting work done.
25 • Xfce scaling (by Jesse on 2024-06-03 12:34:02 GMT from Canada)
@22: "Yes, but have you tried it?"
Yes, I've been happily using it for years with no problems.
26 • Desktop environments (by Vinfall on 2024-06-03 02:45:21 GMT from Hong Kong)
For newcomers, it's better to start with a live CD and simplify *feel* it. Some DEs are awesome but certain distros may ship notoriously awful defaults. My recommedation would be Debian testing/KDE neon for KDE Plasma, any mainstream distro for GNOME (maybe Tails if I have to name one) and Kali for Xfce. Things like MATE or Deepin are usually tied (but not limited) to a few specific distros so no need for recommendation. If you are interested in WM, try Manjaro-sway.
One thing that makes choosing difficult is the protocol/implementation. With more distros shipping Wayland support and many by default, many people may find the transition from Xorg a bit confusing. Similarly, PulseAudio -> PipeWire/ALSA, not to mention WM only enviroments like i3 or Sway.
27 • Another vote for good old XFCE (by Quazatron on 2024-06-03 13:51:11 GMT from Portugal)
During the GNOME 3 wars I switched to XFCE and have been with it ever since.
I've tried MATE, Cinnamon LXQT and Plasma. All have nice qualites but XFCE is where I call home. It does what it does and gets out of your way. Simple, effective and elegant.
As for my opinions on GNOME: sorry, I'm not about to turn my workstation into a Fischer-Price tablet.
28 • Distro's Default DE (by Otis on 2024-06-03 14:03:42 GMT from United States)
@26 etc... I'm currently running Alma Linux with its default Gnome. The usual tweaks (involving its "tweaks" tool) and of course the extensions ("just perfection" being the most important extension for me on Gnome) which have to be installed, result in exactly what I want (as mentioned in previous post: transparent bottom bar etc).
Fast, responsive instantly, as good looking as you make it. I'm glad I checked this out, the Alma distro and Gnome. Things have changed nicely. I can say that this set up would be just fine for a newcomer, simple to install and tweak to your liking.
Also, Alma is basically Red Hat Enterprise; there is a lot here. And it's free.
I didn't like Gnome at first, years ago. It seems okay now. But, I'll still soon be abandoning this for my good ole XFCE on very good ole MX Linux (which I always do no matter how impressed I am with the distro I'm checking out).
29 • Desktop environments / WMs (by Robert on 2024-06-03 14:35:34 GMT from United States)
I can probably be comfortable using most anything at this point.
I have the most experience with KDE Plasma and that's still my preferred interface today.
I spend a year or two with Wayfire, but have since moved on to Sway. I like these a lot too.
Xfce is fine too, as are MATE and Lxqt.
Basically any environment from lightweight to full featured I will just add the applications I want/need and be happy. The only environment I'm not happy in is GNOME. I can function, but it makes me hate my life.
30 • Xfce & MATE Still Matter! (by TonyVanDam on 2024-06-03 14:42:55 GMT from United States)
I do not consider Xfce "lightweight" as much as I consider it just as "middleweight" as MATE is. But nonetheless, both DEs still matter for someone like myself that do not want to be bother with too much bloat &/or too many dependencies. For my desktop & laptop, using apps to do work [and some play!] are more important than having special effects & pretty colorful graphic designs.
31 • XFCE for me (by John on 2024-06-03 15:47:50 GMT from Canada)
I find that XFCE has the best overall mix of features and performance. Like others here have said, it works great for me with HIDPI screen using a single xrandr command to scale appropriately.
Only thing I miss is Wobbly Windows effect :-( KDE has it, Cinnamon has it, Zorin desktop uses "Jelly mode"... Come on XFCE! :-)
32 • Do lightweight desktops offer enough features for you? No, they do not. (by Giorgio on 2024-06-03 16:27:57 GMT from Italy)
"There are indeed a lot of open source desktops and window managers available." But only two are complete and powerful: GNOME (easy to set up, but heavy) and KDE Plasma (difficult to set up, but lighter). The rest IMHO are technologically outdated niche projects.
33 • Developing for Gnome vs. Developing for KDE (by Flaviano Matos on 2024-06-03 16:45:37 GMT from Brazil)
This is my version of joke that I read years ago. Some parts of it I will not repeat because I don't know if they are still true.
Developing for Gnome:
- use GTK;
- give any name for your project. It doesn't matter. It will be hided behind a generic name;
- think of the basic features that may be needed. Don't think of any more;
- make some configurations available, but not many. Hide them;
- put your menus on the title bar.
Developing for KDE:
- use Qt and KDElibs. Don't worry about your program depending on 20 packages to run;
- think of a creative name for your project. If it has a "K" or a "Q" in it, it's a plus;
- think of all the features that you user may need. Then add some more;
- give as many options as possible, think of some more for the next versions;
- include a menu bar and a hamburger menu as an option.
- leave the title bar clean.
34 • Do ligfhtweight desktops offer... (by zephyr on 2024-06-03 16:47:31 GMT from United States)
What constitutes a lightweight distro? Often enough a 2 or 3 gigabyte and above are described as lightweight. Personally, any distro over1gb would be heavy. So many disro's are compiled with so much unused and unneeded applications, I would imagine why a lot of Linux users shy away from very large volume distributions.
35 • Clipboard actions are the killer feature in Trinity (by K.U. on 2024-06-03 16:59:44 GMT from Finland)
I am running a minimal install of an older version of Q4OS with Trinity desktop environment. It is very light, it takes just 80 MB RAM at startup. Still, Trinity has all the bells and whistles including Klipper clipboard manager with clipboard actions!
With clipboard actions I can open dictionaries, translatiors, searches or any application or command very quickly using the clipboard selection as an argument.
I feel so dependent on clipboard actions that I feel hard to switch over to something that doesn't support them.
36 • @34 lightweight distros (by anticapitalista on 2024-06-03 17:14:02 GMT from Greece)
IMO lightweight isn't to do with the size of the iso file, but how much RAM/CPU is used when running it.
37 • Do lightweight desktops offer... (by zephyr on 2024-06-03 18:19:54 GMT from United States)
@36: Not all distro's are created equal. Totally agree with you.
38 • Lightweight desktops (by Tim on 2024-06-03 19:02:56 GMT from United States)
I prefer lightweight desktops. I used Openbox for years, then I hunted around a little and now I've used Awesome for several more years.
Of course, I still use X and I am becoming concerned that everything is pushing torwasd Wayland.
39 • There IS and Xfce with compiz (by Bob on 2024-06-03 19:12:10 GMT from United States)
@31 "Only thing I miss is Wobbly Windows effect :-( KDE has it, Cinnamon has it, Zorin desktop uses "Jelly mode"... Come on XFCE! :-)"
...and it boots with wobbly windows already running. It's a Manjaro spin, and runs great. The builder has been creating this spin for years.
SbK Xfce-Compiz 24.0.0
https://forum.manjaro.org/t/sbk-xfce-compiz-24-0-0/162211
40 • Xfce scaling (by Pumpino on 2024-06-03 20:53:45 GMT from Australia)
@25. Can you please tell me exactly which settings you change and to what values? I would like to have XFCE as a viable option once again. Thanks.
41 • LXQt 2 (by myself on 2024-06-03 21:10:23 GMT from New Zealand)
Thanks for the review! I have been glued to Cinnamon since it began, but keep looking at other desktops to see what they are doing (right, new, interesting and wrong). When the new LXQt 2.0 arrived, it was just too late for Lubuntu 24.04, so I've been waiting to see who makes it available first. The review makes me want to install it and run my own testing.
42 • WM / DE tables (by grindstone on 2024-06-03 22:01:52 GMT from United States)
WM & DE comparison tables on wikipedia, FWIW:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_X_Window_System_desktop_environments
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_X_window_managers
43 • How to use xrandr for scaling XFCE desktop: (by John on 2024-06-03 22:34:41 GMT from Canada)
How to use xrandr for scaling XFCE desktop:
Create this file: 45custom_xrandr-settings
in this folder: /etc/X11/Xsession.d/
put this one line in the file:
xrandr --output eDP-1 --scale 0.8x0.8
Note - the values used here (0.8x0.8) work for me on my 3000x2000 screen. Adjust as necessary for your screen
44 • How to use xrandr for scaling XFCE desktop (by Pumpino on 2024-06-03 23:18:32 GMT from Australia)
@43. Thanks. Do you have windows scaling set to 1 or 2 in Appearance-> Settings-> Windows Scaling?
45 • Larger DEs are not necessarily slower (by session on 2024-06-03 23:28:05 GMT from United States)
On modern—even low-end—desktops, performance with light vs heavy DEs is effectively indistinguishable. But on really old systems, like my old P4 Celeron desktop that I used for decades, DEs that use more RAM are not necessarily slower, and a lot of UI performance comes down to things like compile optimizations, window manager redraw rate, etc.
46 • Do lightweight desktops offer enough features for you? No, they do not. (by Alvaro on 2024-06-04 02:26:53 GMT from Italy)
I prefer MATE: a middle-weight and complete alternative to the bigger desktops (GNOME & KDE). I like it especially in the "vanilla" version, without the customizations that some distributions include.
47 • KDE (by rb on 2024-06-04 03:47:33 GMT from United States)
I have used KDE since the 3.0 days when it was the alternative to Win98. Except for the horrible bumpy switch to KDE 4.0 i have always enjoyed it. Gnome has gone in a crazy direction for my use case and I just don't understand the forced workflow. LXQt is nice, but too simple. Nate Graham is a strong force on the KDE team and the team has really brought it into the present day. I really enjoy being able to customize things to what works best for me.
I will probably keep with KDE for many years to come.
48 • Lightweight environments (by Martin on 2024-06-04 05:14:56 GMT from Czechia)
DEs being lightweight is a great bonus but modularity is the most important for me so I can mix and match window managers and applications across DEs that most fit my needs.
49 • Lightweight or not? (by De Schatberg on 2024-06-04 05:39:57 GMT from The Netherlands)
I don't really understand why people spend so much energy discussing resource usage and spreading some urban legends like KDE is lighter than Gnome, Xfce is more responsive than Gnome and KDE...
That's just not true.
LxQt is an outdated and ugly WM that lacks features and uses as much resources as KDE. Mate wasn't good when it came out, and it gets worse with every new iteration - just look at Ayatana. It's outdated, ugly, lacks features, and yet it's no lighter than Gnome 46.
Xfce is the worst of all. Not only is it outdated, ugly, featureless, and memory hungry, but it is also technically flawed, which makes it obsolete.
The only good thing about it is that it is easily customizable, which is basically irrelevant. The vast majority of average users expect the system to come with a decent appearance, properly preconfigured and ready to use, and they don't want to be forced to customize and fiddle with it to make it usable before they can start working.
It seems that most people (commenters and reviewers) do not really understand how RAM management works, what all is responsible for memory consumption, and why some systems feel faster and more responsive than others.
The worst part is when people start comparing apples and oranges. Yes, I know, they are all fruits, just like coffee, but...
If I take Gnome 46 and type "80 x 1.024", it'll show me the result. If I type "wri", it'll offer me to start Writer. If I type "(insert text)", it'll show me the installed application (if there is one), the application available for installation (if there is one), a local document, music, video, etc. (if there is one), a web browser search link... Weather, world clocks, calendar, and notifications are all nicely organized in a single panel, and it looks damn good. In terms of usability, it beats the hell out of all other GUIs, especially on laptops. Move three fingers up and it opens Activities. Move the icon on a virtual desktop and the application opens on that desktop. Swipe left or right with two fingers, and you can browse desktops. Swipe down with three fingers, and you're back on the selected desktop.
But what about Xfce? If I want similar functionality, I have to add Cerebro and half a dozen extra applications, and I still don't get fully comparable usability, but just a horribly ugly, technically flawed environment whose RAM usage will exceed that of Gnome - every single widget, extension, and applet will add 30, 50, or 80 MB to your memory consumption. Everything affects RAM, not just running services and RAM configuration, but even your file system. Something that people usually forget to take into the account.
Xfce (Xfvm) can't even scale. It still uses XPM/PNG graphics to draw window borders. Every rounded corner will have jagged corners ("staircase"). Taskbar icons do not scale properly. Thunar can't keep the correct spacing on the grid...
And why discuss RAM usage at all, when even the cheapest junk for 250 ~ 300 bucks comes with 4 GB RAM nowadays, and for a handful of bucks more you can get 8 GB RAM? Hack, when I think back to 2007 and my old Lenovo T61p, I already had 4 GB RAM in it. Nobody would or should use some ancient museum piece of hardware in 2024. You can't really use a Pentium 2 for productive work, not even for surfing.
https://ibb.co/nmD0Znm
https://ibb.co/kqvGvcq
https://ibb.co/rt75kgB
https://ibb.co/SXPTk7B
https://ibb.co/yV3rM72
50 • @ 49--update. (by R. Cain on 2024-06-04 10:17:00 GMT from United States)
"...The worst part is when people start comparing apples and oranges. Yes, I know, they are all fruits, just like coffee, but..."
...and tomatoes; don't forget the tomatoes...
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.”
--Miles Kington
51 • Economical DE (by Gary W on 2024-06-04 12:15:57 GMT from Australia)
@35 Thanks for mentioning Trinity. I find it fits very well on my eeepc 701, by way of EXE GNU/Linux, based on devuan. Only 50Mb when started, and 90Mb when logged in to the GUI.
However, the eeepc is not my everyday computer, on which I run XFCE. Like many here, I find it the best compromise between features, configurability, and performance. It's also a 'traditional' or 'old school' desktop, unlike the 18-wheeler KDE or the clown car GNOME.
52 • Tik Installer (by Pomme de Terre nouvelle on 2024-06-04 17:32:15 GMT from Germany)
I like the concept of the "immutable" distros, such as Aeon, Silverblue or Vanilla OS, and therefore try them once in a while. I'm looking forward to trying Aeon RC2 because I'm curious of the new tik installer. All of the mentioned distros, but also Fedora or the "Calamares" crowd, have terrible installers, esp. with regards to partitioning.
Debian's old school installer (around since Woody!) still takes the cake. Concerning the partitioner it takes the whole bakery. So sad.
53 • Different desktops for different penguins (by Sith hobbit on 2024-06-04 21:15:11 GMT from Chile)
@49 I'm glad you enjoy using gnome that much. I don't. The thing is that gnome is very opinionated about how you use it, and for folks like me who grew up with those old pentiums, those opinions don't make a lot of sense. Why type names or swipe with a variable number of fingers when just clicking, clicking, double clicking does it? Gnome, with it's extremely rounded corners, fat buttons and lack of options looks as ridiculous to me as other DE's do to you.
So, when you say that people want a nice looking and efficient desktop from the get-go I agree. We just differ on what that means. And that's good.
54 • DE's and systemd (by ThomasAnderson on 2024-06-04 21:57:22 GMT from Australia)
It's funny how systemd keeps coming up in these areas. Normally nobody would think about systemd and a desktop environment, however, it is relevant especially for Gnome, which is dependant upon systemd to function, since Gnome 3.34.
You can still install Gnome on non-systemd setups however they will pull in systemd related files. There is a good article on the Gentoo wiki on this, however it requires patching.
Making your entire desktop dependant upon systemd feels like it is contrary to the spirit of Linux and OSS.
Meanwhile, other DE's like KDE, XFCE, Mate can all function on non-systemd systems without issue.
Of course, if you just run a bare bones install with a windows manager then there is also no issue.
It is unclear to me why Gnome has decided on this course of action, to make their DE dependant on systemd, but it means for me at least, I will never be using Gnome.
55 • Gnome (by Otis on 2024-06-04 21:57:42 GMT from United States)
@53 I do not understand why there are posts about Gnome being non-configurable to one's liking. I wish they allowed screen shots here, as I'd show you my Gnome desktop on Alma Linux; for all purposes it has the appearance and functionality of XFCE. That's the way I like it. As posted previously, all one has to do is acquire Gnome Extensions ("Just Perfection" is a main driver for many Gnome users) and tweak away. You're not stuck with the top bar, or "extremely rounded corners" (?) or "fat buttons," etc. Are you joking? Being hyperbolic? Because it's silly what you're saying.
56 • Great Review of LXQT 2.0 on EndeavourOS (by Tom Darais on 2024-06-04 23:07:54 GMT from United States)
Hi Jesse, great review on LXQT 2.0 on EndeavourOS, it was very validating to read thoughts expressed that are similar to my own. After considering many options I've decided that LXQT 2.0 on EndeavourOS makes good strategic sense as I wean systems off Windows: 1) the UI is just right, 2) the DE is fast and consumes minimal resources, 3) the next version will be Wayland ready "out of the box," 4) the LXTQ team seems to have the needed resources to move the DE forward in a timely fashion, and 5) an LXQT 2.0 EndeavourOS combination rocks because it's Arch and easy at the same time. I've had success with the EndeavourOS with LXQT 2.0 on a few installs now an it has worked great. An interesting article can be found here on there being much to like about LXQT updating to QT6 and soon to be Wayland ready: https://www.theregister.com/2024/04/20/lxqt2_updates_to_qt6/ .
57 • 54 • DE's and systemd (by ThomasAnderson... (by R. Cain on 2024-06-04 23:49:41 GMT from United States)
"...It is unclear to me why Gnome has decided on this course of action, to make their DE dependant on systemd..."
Is it also unclear to you as to why the developers of entire, MAJOR, distributions make their complete and total 𝒅𝒊𝒔𝒕𝒓𝒊𝒃𝒖𝒕𝒊𝒐𝒏 dependent on systemd?
Perhaps some (If not a majority of) the pushback against systemd is that most users of Linux are more sophisticated than given credit for, and find it not only indefensible, but totally unconscionable, that the systemd initialization system should require 1.3 MILLION lines of code while SysV (sysvinit) has 11,600, and runit requires a grand total of 1000.
Please see "Comment #44: init comparison (by Jesse on 2024-05-28...") in last week's DistroWatch Comment section.
This is the reason why I refused to upgrade / update one of the tightest, best, most well-written OSs, ever (Mint 13, Maya, excepted)--Linux Mint 17.3--to Mint 18, when C. Lefabvre decided to follow Ubuntu, blindly, and base, totally and completely, his new Mint 18 on Ubuntu's new systemd-based offering. This, without his hallmark: the superlative, almost Herculean effort of re-writing and FIXING what was wrong with the Ubuntu upon which he based his Mint offering. All this was ended with Clement Lefebvre's unquestioning adoption of Ubuntu's newest LTS version.
Offered without comment--
This is also the exact moment at which Mint was toppled from its unprecedented years-long run as DistroWatch's number-one distribution...and replaced by MX-Linux, which has, to this day, occupied that number-one position (no further comment on systemd, or lack thereof).
---------------------------------
cf. ...
Systemd – Progress Through Complexity
https://www.ocsmag.com/systemd-progress-through-complexity/
"...System V and init are probably not ready to be relayed [sic] [relegated? ] to history, especially not when Systemd is the current proposed alternative. It simply does not have what it takes to be the superior functional and evolutionary replacement..."
"...As far as Systemd is concerned, I am concerned, because it is a technology that does not correlate to knowledge or experience, and it poses a great risk to the prosperity of Linux. Evolution has its ways of telling us when we’ve done something wrong, so it will be interesting to judge what is happening today15-20 years from now. I do not foresee bright times. And you might as well practice Linux installations, since they may be the answer to when Systemd goes bad, as I cannot foresee any easy, helpful way out of trouble...
58 • Gnome, and the init leper (by Mr. Moto on 2024-06-05 01:33:32 GMT from Philippines)
@55, "I do not understand why there are posts about Gnome being non-configurable to one's liking." Probably because it's much easier to repeat like an echo (or a parrot) than to experiment and do things. When Gnome 3 was first released, I thought it might be Gnu/Linux's own Windows 8. (Remember that fiasco?) But this is open-source after all, and then came the tweaks from inside and out. Zorin uses Gnome to look like Windows. I'm still a fan of Plasma, but I removed my last install of it this year and replaced it with Gnome. Gnome is just as if not more configurable than Plasma. In my case, after the abandonment of Plasma's Latte Dock, Gnome works much better for me. My wife's laptop has Ubuntu Jammy configured as she likes it. I have Ubuntu Noble and Debian testing configured as I like them. Screenshots? I wouldn't bother. I've posted links to Flicker showing Gnome and Plasma side by side looking like twin desktops. Still, the "Gnome forced workflow" myth persists. For a somewhat dyslexic old fart like me there are also other benefits to Gnome (or Plasma), which I won't go into here.
@ "15-20 years from now. I do not foresee bright times. And you might as well practice Linux installations, since they may be the answer to when Systemd goes bad" In 2014 a movement was born to boycott Systemd. They even tried to hook Linus Torvalds, and he wasn't interested. Ten years gone, and eight years since your quoted article was written. I've installed Ubuntu 24.04, and I can keep it without reinstalling for 10 or more years, unless I wish to. Linux Mint is doing quite well. Ask Clem Lefebvre. The page hit rankings here are not a mirror of the universe. MX Linux offers things besides init to DW users, hence its popularity. It's fine, just not my cup-of tea. You want to see how popular non-systemd distros are? Look it up, here or on a search engine, and see how many derivatives of Devuan there are compared to Debian. It's just like Debian. I've installed it. I even tried different inits for fun, with Gnome in some cases no less, to be evil. The latest wunderkind is Void. It's not bad. I've tried it. Yet it sits in the mid-nineties in H.P.D. here. I'm 78, so I expect Gnu/Linux and Systemd to be around long after I'm gone and the sky won't have fallen. I may be wrong, but I doubt it. I'm not for or against Systemd. I'm just against baseless fear-mongering.
59 • S6 Init With 66 Management (by Tom Darais on 2024-06-05 02:25:37 GMT from United States)
I wish that S6 with 66 management got more attention. It would be so cool if they were adopted by more Arch distributions. You can learn more at https://web.obarun.org, and more about S6 and 66 at https://www.skarnet.org/software/s6/ . It is supposed to be a next generation init system.
60 • Lightweight and init redux (by Mr. Moto on 2024-06-05 03:02:41 GMT from Philippines)
Just adding: I said I expect Gnu/Linux and Systemd to be around long after I'm gone. I expect the same for OpenRC, runit, Sysvinit and others, as long as someone competent is willing to maintain them. (A shout-out to Jesse here. As they say in the US: Thank you for your service.)
I am, however, irked by the useless teeth-gnashing over things like init, RAM use and ISO size. There was a distro called Star, based on Devuan, available with Openbox, JWM and XFCE. Live-disk with XFCE used around 240 MB RAM. ISO was around 600 MB. Came with the basics and everything else could be added from the repos. I mentioned it here around 2 or 3 years ago. It got no love, here or anywhere else. Still available from Sourceforge, but it's 2 years old. One would think that if there is such a pressing need, or at least a desire for these attributes, something like Star would have been a big hit. But no! It withered on the vine. Open-source is supposed to be about choice, but when choice is available, most people would rather complain and call for boycotts. Devuan and Star are good examples of the real indifference among most of the loud ones.
61 • Lightweight environments (by Angelico on 2024-06-05 03:48:11 GMT from Brazil)
I use #!++ (Debian + Openbox)
X60s (backpack machine)
T430 (main machine)
My wife uses Linux Mint Xfce (X301).
At work (a public school in Brazil) I use Linux Mint Cinnamon.
62 • Lightweight Desktop (by zephyr on 2024-06-05 07:24:01 GMT from United States)
@60 Mr. Moto: Star is no longer maintained, the maintainer is most likely deceased. Ozi Traveler lived in Australia. We both built and collaborated Star, Zephyr, and Crowz Linux. Zephyr being discontinued to allow Crowz to be the only distro. I haven't heard from Ozi Traveller for a couple years, we once communicated daily.
63 • Different desktops for different penguins, by Sith hobbit from Chile (by De Schatberg on 2024-06-05 10:54:56 GMT from The Netherlands)
@53:
(1) The thing is that gnome is very opinionated about how you use it ...
(2) Why type names or swipe ... when just clicking ... does it?
(3) Gnome, with it's ... fat buttons and lack of options ...
1. You could say the same thing about any other GUI, including the one you prefer, but the fact is that the user has to learn how to use the product and relearn it over time. Think about shifting gears in a car. Long or short levers, on the floor or on the steering column, levers or buttons on the steering wheel, with or without an extra differential lever ...
2. Because it's more efficient. Every (new) laptop has a (large) touchpad. Most of the new computers sold are laptops. There are also touchpads for desktop computers. GUIs are not designed for historical devices. It's simple logic. All you have to do is adapt and change the way you work. Make it work for you instead of fighting it.
3. Lack of options is an advantage for the vast majority of people who use computers for work. Lack of options is a disadvantage for a tiny minority of users who work on their GUIs, who like to tinker and customize, and who are inflexible and unable or unwilling to learn and adapt. "Big buttons are coming because of their advantages.
As for "opinionated" ... well, that is simply a matter of (your) perspective, but the "right way" is not about your personal preferences, but about objective observation and facts, and so certain things can only be done one way, but not any other way, because that would be a "wrong way". You can't build an amphibious 6-seater off-road racing car with 2 seats that flies and carries 750 tons of rocks out of the pit while transporting 50 people in comfortable seats from city to city. Jeep or Ferrari? Truck or bus?
Desktop themes as an example:
A theme must be light, must have dark panels, and the dark theme must have all windows dark, but the light theme must have some light and some dark windows.
Must - for optimal usability (do not confuse this with your personal preferences!).
Transparency is a no-go from a usability perspective, unless it's done the "Apple way" - an opaque, bluish image where you can't see through to what's behind the surface.
Dark themes should never be the default, they should always be optional. They are wrong in most situations, but necessary in some other (rare) cases. Film editing or professional image manipulation is usually done in dark rooms.
Light themes should always be the default, since most people work in well-lit workspaces, and most users do office-type work. Creating or reading documents. However, all imaging and some multimedia applications need to use dark theme windows (on a light theme). For example, image viewers, image manipulation programs, and video players. Again, this is not a matter of personal taste, but usability, and we are talking about "optimal default settings in most cases", not not being able to change them. The idea behind "optimal defaults" is that the system is set up so that no one has to change the defaults because they are already working as well as they can, but they are allowed ("forced") to make them worse because of personal preference.No more "opinionated".
Not following these rules would result in a "zebra look": dark screen border, light panel, dark background, light window frame, dark movie.
https://ibb.co/vj043kD
https://ibb.co/N93K9Pq
https://ibb.co/KF6W3SN
In other words, it is pointless to argue about "right" or "wrong" and call "right" "opinionated" just because you do not like it. The point is that you are not "forced" to use it if you don't like it, that you can use whatever you prefer even if your choice is "wrong", and the point is to tell you that something is not right or wrong just because you think it is.
I do agree on "different desktops for different penguins" though.
64 • Just a couple of screenshots (by De Schatberg on 2024-06-05 11:45:52 GMT from The Netherlands)
"Zebra look" Themenig done wrong (Tuxedo OS 3, KDE Plasma 6)
https://ibb.co/3pkRDkS
"Fat buttons" done wrong (KDE Plasma 6)
https://ibb.co/GWBCz3B
"Fat buttons" done right (Gnome 43)
https://ibb.co/LkSSwy6
Gnome Classic is included in every Fedora Workstation installation by default. You can select it on the login screen.
Menu and taskbar extensions can also be manually enabled and used with standard Gnome.
https://ibb.co/g98zmqT
https://ibb.co/LgfFJCX
Light theme done right (only in Gnome)
https://ibb.co/0BkP9zh
65 • DE vs WM (by eb on 2024-06-05 14:56:32 GMT from France)
You like Linux ? so you like freedom !
Convince yourself a DE is useless, and try a simple slim WM, picking only the soft you need. Your computer will continue running fast, and you will keep it for a very long time ; it is ecological. I tried : Blackbox, Ratpoison, Openbox, and now I stick with Fluxbox, light & comfortable, that I recommend.
Thanks to Jesse.
66 • Gnome 46 vs other GUIs (by Sergio on 2024-06-05 15:02:40 GMT from Italy)
@49
"If I take Gnome 46... In terms of usability, it beats the hell out of all other GUIs, especially on laptops." Only on laptops! That is the problem!
67 • DE -Enlightenment vs. lightDE (by White_Wolf on 2024-06-05 15:21:35 GMT from Poland)
"This week we would like to hear from you about whether lightweight desktop environments such as LXQt and Enlightenment provide you with enough features, or do you desire full featured desktops?"
Putting Enlightenment as not enough featured is ridiculous. It has more features than Gnome...
68 • XFCE, wobbly windows and more... (by ric on 2024-06-05 15:51:02 GMT from United States)
@31, @39: Xfce can have wobbly windows and more.
as @39 mentioned, use compiz as the wm. one gets not only wobbly windows, but many other cool effects (eg, 3d cube, exploding windows, etc). if installing compiz, suggest installing - emerald; then, change compiz window decorations to use it. this will allow modifying the window decorations (eg buttons on left instead of default right, and more). these will add a bit of "bloat" over xfwm4 obviously, and may be tempermental.
another option, similar but without all the glitz as compiz and a bit more stable (on my systems) is to use kwin as the wm. 3 effects (and more) i particularly like are: wobbly windows, magic lamp, and exploding windows. it takes about 1/2 less ram as compiz. a suggested kwin minimal install is to use "--no-install-recommends" if on a debian base system; a bit different if on rpm or arch systems. also, need to get a few extra packages (eg. systemsettings (kwin), etc). dan, of miyolinux, has a few nice tutorials on youtube.
i used to use xfce4/kwin or xfce4/compiz but now on lxqt/kwin. it's a bit lighter on my system with mind/eye pleasing effects :-)
best of luck
cheers ~ peace
69 • Gnome 46 (by De Schatberg on 2024-06-05 17:00:00 GMT from The Netherlands)
@66: "Only on laptops! That is the problem!"
No, not really. It's just a little different. It takes a few minutes to get used to. Maybe a couple of days for the slow thinkers.
Pressing the Windows key opens and closes activities, and turning the mouse wheel changes workspaces.
70 • Gnome vs. not-Gnome (by Some Rando on 2024-06-05 20:32:47 GMT from United States)
You will never convince me that the objections people have to Gnome are not rooted in the fact that it doesn't look like Windows.
People, by and large, just want the familiar. Even after switching to a completely different OS, they still want their Windows 95-era taskbar on the bottom, Start menu at the left corner, and system tray at the right corner. Deviate from that at your peril.
But Gnome is the cleanest and most usable DE out there. It's designed from the ground up to provide a *better* workflow, not just one that you're already used to.
Of course you can use extensions to give it the traditional DE layout. But it works best in its intended form, with few extensions, if any. My advice is to learn the keybindings, use workspaces, use the super key. And it's 2024, the search prompt is your friend.
Gnome is the default desktop of nearly every *major* Linux distribution. (The only exceptions I can think of are Arch--which AFAIK doesn't have a default DE--and Slackware.), There's a reason for that.
71 • Faces of the evil DE, and counting Crowz (by Mr. Moto on 2024-06-06 02:54:24 GMT from Philippines)
@67, "Putting Enlightenment as not enough featured is ridiculous. It has more features than Gnome..". If I were to use a "light" desktop it may be Enlightenment, but to say it has more features than Gnome is downright silly.
@66, "Only on laptops! That is the problem!" I don't use a laptop unless necessary. I use Gnome and it works great.
Here are some screenshots. They are all Gnome on Ubuntu, Ultramarine and Armbian. They speak for themselves.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/164785504@N08/
@62, zephir, Sorry to hear about your collaborator. Star was a nice little distro for those wanting "light" and a full DE. Good luck with Crowz.
72 • Gnome/Computing in the future etc (by Otis on 2024-06-06 12:57:20 GMT from United States)
@58 ah Mr. Moto (may aunt had a parrot by that name, btw).. years ago Gnome was seen by XFCE and KDE users as some strange, short-lived anomaly that was just not going to be taken seriously in the Linux world. I felt similarly until recently, to be honest, up until just last week when I kept it as the default on my new install of Alma Linux.
It's one of the most configurable, inovative DEs out there now; maybe it always has been, I don't know because I was turned off by how different it was when I first gave it a try a few years ago.
But the differences are about the steps a user takes to customize Gnome, as opposed to Plasma and the others. You can do the very same things to all of those DEs, is my point.
73 • Portable software in Linux, how to? (by Jan on 2024-06-06 21:26:15 GMT from The Netherlands)
In the near future in the Chrome/Chromium browsers ad-blocking (and other) extensions are restricted.
I have always had 2 different browsers, so FF and Chrome, to anticipate on a crash of one (at an update).
Now I have to find 2 different FF-browsers.
In Windows my solution is to have FF installed, and FF-ESR-portable, if one crashes the other probably does not. All other forks of FF follow the update of Mozilla later, but as fast as possible, so do not qualify my 2-different browsers-solution.
Does anybody know how to install in Linux both FF and FF-ESR, both from the Mozilla-source (so not Flatpack or snap or whatever)?
I assume in Linux portable applications, within a Linux-installation, do not exist.
74 • Do You Prefer Lightweight Desktops (by TheAmnesiacPhilosopher on 2024-06-06 23:36:34 GMT from United States)
Yes. Yes I do.
75 • #73 - Portable software in Linux, how to? (by TheAmnesiacPhilosopher on 2024-06-06 23:41:33 GMT from United States)
@73 regarding installing Firefox or Firefox-ESR. Here are instructions for a Debian-based system if it helps...
https://sourceforge.net/projects/miyolinux/files/Files/mozilla-firefox/
76 • xrandr only (by John on 2024-06-07 00:26:18 GMT from Canada)
@44 - didn't change windows scaling in the Settings. Just left at 1, and let xrandr in the file adjust everything
77 • @73 Jan, Firefox double, @72 Otis, Gnome (by Mr. Moto on 2024-06-07 01:52:57 GMT from Philippines)
@ 73, "both FF and FF-ESR" Not so simple. They can be installed, (or the tarball can be downloaded and run as is) but only one will run without complex steps. Firefox creates a ".mozilla" folder for configuration. You'd need to add separate profiles and use separate commands for each install. I don't know what you mean by "follow the update of Mozilla later" or why it matters. Waterfox or Librewolf should work, and If you want the same profiles, just sign in to a Firefox account on each and sync your data.
https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=318597
@72, Glad you're enjoying Gnome. A lot of independent developers adding goodies (extensions) on an ongoing basis. (Mr. Moto was a movie detective played by Peter Lorre back in the old days. Supposedly Japanese, would be considered offensive today. Funny, but when I read "Otis" I think "Mayberry".)
78 • DE - enlightenment (by SSmith on 2024-06-07 03:27:31 GMT from Australia)
I thought Bohdi uses a fork of E and not E itself? i've been looking for a dist with Enlightenment as default, but can only fnd elive.
79 • gnome (by gnome on 2024-06-07 10:55:28 GMT from Germany)
@70 "You will never convince me that the objections people have to Gnome are not rooted in the fact that it doesn't look like Windows. People, by and large, just want the familiar. Even after switching to a completely different OS, they still want their Windows 95-era taskbar on the bottom, Start menu at the left corner, and system tray at the right corner"
Not even the fact that what people want (and MATE realised) was GNOME 2 (apps/places/system menu on the top left, systray on the top right) instead of XP/Vista/7 will?
80 • Gnome 2 (by De Schatberg on 2024-06-07 11:30:43 GMT from The Netherlands)
Some Rando: You will never convince me that the objections people have to Gnome are not rooted in the fact that it doesn't look like Windows. People, by and large, just want the familiar. Even after switching to a completely different OS, they still want their Windows 95-era taskbar on the bottom, Start menu at the left corner, and system tray at the right corner.
gnome: Not even the fact that what people want (and MATE realised) was GNOME 2 (apps/places/system menu on the top left, systray on the top right) instead of XP/Vista/7 will?
Gnome 2 (MATE)... that's also something that most people don't want, so he's right. ;) :)
81 • @73. Firefox + Firefox-ESR installed in Linux (by Jan on 2024-06-07 11:57:19 GMT from The Netherlands)
@75+@77 Thank for your comments.
It is now clear to me that in Linux, both installed Firefox-regular + Firefox-esr (one of them portable) can not be easy to realize.
A solution is then to install one of them as a fork (which i dislike) and the other as original. So for instance Waterfox + Firefox-esr.
The problem i see with forks in general is that it is maintained by a small management, so sensitive for bad continuity/security-upgrades. But it is as it is.
82 • Firefox + Firefox-ESR installed in Linux (by De Schatberg on 2024-06-07 12:14:24 GMT from The Netherlands)
"It is now clear to me that in Linux, both installed Firefox-regular + Firefox-esr (one of them portable) can not be easy to realize.
The problem i see with forks in general is that it is maintained by a small management, so sensitive for bad continuity/security-upgrades."
You can install a regular Firefox first and then install the Firefox ESR fork, which is maintained by the company and has security in mind.
https://mullvad.net/en/help/install-mullvad-browser
83 • some rando, I am (by some rando on 2024-06-07 14:00:19 GMT from Germany)
@80 So do most people on Linux want LXDE or KDE instead...which in turn have never been dominant in these parts, unlike those two versions of GNOME?
Maybe I should have said "people *wanted*". The uproar and change started when GNOME 2 disappeared from the repos, after all not when LXDE came to the scene after all, but has since also subsided?
84 • Firefox fear, @81 (by Wally on 2024-06-07 14:03:06 GMT from Australia)
@81- Good grief, man! If you're gonna fret, worry big, like Mozilla packing it in since they ain't doing so well, and then the world would belong to Google and the fruit company. Waterfox and Firewolf have been around a while, and they are fine. So what if the updates might be a few days behind! Are you protecting nuclear secrets? @82 suggests Mullvad, which is newer, and also probably fine. Any of them will do. If you must have the genuine brand, create a second user, download and extract the Firefox tarball to this user's home folder. Google for available instructions. (It's easy.) If by some strange occurrence your own precious Firefox should die (doubtful!), you can switch users and go from there.
85 • Statistics vs. Surveys (by De Schatberg on 2024-06-07 14:50:39 GMT from The Netherlands)
@83: You misunderstood my writing, Some Rando/some rando (@70, @83). You were right, but the gnome (@79; user: gnome!) was wrong. There are not many statistics on the topic, and only one where I can share the link.
https://eylenburg.github.io/de_comparison.htm
https://www.zdnet.com/article/gnome-vs-kde-this-means-war/
https://www.developer.com/guides/gnome-vs-kde-in-open-source-desktops/
86 • Firefox + Firefox-ESR installed in Linux (by Jan on 2024-06-07 19:41:59 GMT from The Netherlands)
@82
That advice seems to me exactly according my preferences (maintained by organizations in stead of individuals).
@84
My utter paranoia w.r.t. distro/software security and continuity grew on very bad experiences with Linux distros, software and browser extensions. A common at those was that they were made by brilliant high motivated individuals, who after some time got into a dispute or lost interest or got other priorities.
87 • Stolen Identity :-P (by real Some Rando on 2024-06-07 23:19:19 GMT from United States)
#85 (De Schatberg): I am the one true Some Rando (#70). The German at #83 is an imposter. Maybe they want to benefit from my good looks and excellent reputation (or maybe there is just some unintended confusion).
I think most people who've used Gnome like Gnome. I was only addressing those that have objections to it. It's a matter of choice, and it's okay if someone prefers a Windows-95 design for their desktop. I just think people are missing out if they don't bother to examine the workflow that Gnome encourages.
Everything you (De Schatberg) have posted on the subject is well-reasoned, IMO.
88 • This week's poll. (by R. Cain on 2024-06-07 23:57:20 GMT from United States)
Only _28%_ of the respondents to this week's poll want more features in their distros!
There are two ways to interpret these results: (1) jubilation; (2) despair.
(1)--Look how many people are wise to (or have gotten wise to) the false logic and siren-song of the "bigger, faster, more feature-filled, has-to-be-better" crowd (developers AND their peers).
(2)--Look at how many haven't.
Number of Comments: 88
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| • Issue 1175 (2026-06-01): PineTab2 with various distros, less common words of wisdom, Canonical shutting down Ubuntu's Pastebin, Murena nears 100k users, DistroWatch turns 25 |
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| • Issue 1173 (2026-05-18): Sylve on FreeBSD, the benefit of BleachBit, Debian commits to reproducible builds, Debian publishes updated install media, Haiku introduces SMP support on ARM64 processors, Rocky Linux creates opt-in security repository, Fedora reconsiders AI tools, KDE receives generous donation |
| • Issue 1172 (2026-05-11): Fedora 44, dealing with extra fonts, Fedora plans to provide AI tools, problems with Ubuntu's new coreutils, TrueNAS extends its development cycle, postmarktetOS improves the boot splash screen, Redox ports tmux |
| • Issue 1171 (2026-05-04): Xubuntu 26.04, extending memory with VRAM, Ubuntu plans AI features, Devuan developer forks GTK2, Mint introduces hardware enablement builds, Linux running on a PlayStation 5, local kernel exploit found in Linux |
| • Issue 1170 (2026-04-27): ENux 5.2.1, picking a second distro, AlmaLinux expands CPU support, FreeBSD publishes Status Report, Ubuntu MATE skips 26.04 release |
| • Issue 1169 (2026-04-20): Lakka 6.1, free software and source-based distributions, FreeBSD Foundation publishes compatible laptop list, Debian holds Project Leader election, Haiku progresses ARM64 port, Mint to extend development cycle, Linux 7.0 released |
| • Issue 1168 (2026-04-13): pearOS 2026.03, EndeavourOS 2026.03.06, which distros are adopting age verification, Arch adjusts its firewall packages, Linux dropping i486 support, Red Hat extends its release cycle, Debian's APT introduces rollbacks, Redox improves its scheduler |
| • Issue 1167 (2026-04-06): Origami Linux 2026.03, answering questions for Linux newcomers, Ubuntu MATE seeking new contributors, Ubuntu software centre is expanding Deb support, FreeBSD fixes forum exploit, openSUSE 15 Leap nears its end of life |
| • Issue 1166 (2026-03-30): NetBSD jails, publishing software for Linux, Ubuntu joins Rust Foundation, Canonical plans to trim GRUB features, Peppermint works on new utilities, PINE64 shows off open hardware capabilities |
| • Issue 1165 (2026-03-23): Argent Linux 1.5.3, disk space required by Linux, Manjaro team goes on strike, AlmaLinux improves NVIDIA driver support and builds RISC-V packages, systemd introduces age tracking |
| • Issue 1164 (2026-03-16): d77void, age verification laws and Linux, SUSE may be for sale, TrueNAS takes its build system private, Debian publishes updated Trixie media, MidnightBSD and System76 respond to age verification laws |
| • Issue 1163 (2026-03-09): KaOS 2026.02, TinyCore 17.0, NuTyX 26.02.2, Would one big collection of packages help?, Guix offers 64-bit Hurd options, Linux communities discuss age delcaration laws, Mint unveils new screensaver for Cinnamon, Redox ports new COSMIC features |
| • Issue 1162 (2026-03-02): AerynOS 2026.01, anti-virus and firewall tools, Manjaro fixes website certificate, Ubuntu splits firmware package, jails for NetBSD, extended support for some Linux kernel releases, Murena creating a map app |
| • Issue 1161 (2026-02-23): The Guix package manager, quick Q&As, Gentoo migrating its mirrors, Fedora considers more informative kernel panic screens, GhostBSD testing alternative X11 implementation, Asahi makes progress with Apple M3, NetBSD userland ported, FreeBSD improves web-based system management |
| • Issue 1160 (2026-02-16): Noid and AgarimOS, command line tips, KDE Linux introduces delta updates, Redox OS hits development milestone, Linux Mint develops a desktop-neutral account manager, sudo developer seeks sponsorship |
| • Issue 1159 (2026-02-09): Sharing files on a network, isolating processes on Linux, LFS to focus on systemd, openSUSE polishes atomic updates, NetBSD not likely to adopt Rust code, COSMIC roadmap |
| • Issue 1158 (2026-02-02): Manjaro 26.0, fastest filesystem, postmarketOS progress report, Xfce begins developing its own Wayland window manager, Bazzite founder interviewed |
| • Issue 1157 (2026-01-26): Setting up a home server, what happened to convergence, malicious software entering the Snap store, postmarketOS automates hardware tests, KDE's login manager works with systemd only |
| • Issue 1156 (2026-01-19): Chimera Linux's new installer, using the DistroWatch Torrent Corner, new package tools for Arch, Haiku improves EFI support, Redcore streamlines branches, Synex introduces install-time ZFS options |
| • Issue 1155 (2026-01-12): MenuetOS, CDE on Sparky, iDeal OS 2025.12.07, recommended flavour of BSD, Debian seeks new Data Protection Team, Ubuntu 25.04 nears its end of life, Google limits Android source code releases, Fedora plans to replace SDDM, Budgie migrates to Wayland |
| • Issue 1154 (2026-01-05): postmarketOS 25.06/25.12, switching to Linux and educational resources, FreeBSD improving laptop support, Unix v4 available for download, new X11 server in development, CachyOS team plans server edtion |
| • Issue 1153 (2025-12-22): Best projects of 2025, is software ever truly finished?, Firefox to adopt AI components, Asahi works on improving the install experience, Mageia presents plans for version 10 |
| • Issue 1152 (2025-12-15): OpenBSD 7.8, filtering websites, Jolla working on a Linux phone, Germany saves money with Linux, Ubuntu to package AMD tools, Fedora demonstrates AI troubleshooting, Haiku packages Go language |
| • Issue 1151 (2025-12-08): FreeBSD 15.0, fun command line tricks, Canonical presents plans for Ubutnu 26.04, SparkyLinux updates CDE packages, Redox OS gets modesetting driver |
| • Issue 1150 (2025-12-01): Gnoppix 25_10, exploring if distributions matter, openSUSE updates tumbleweed's boot loader, Fedora plans better handling of broken packages, Plasma to become Wayland-only, FreeBSD publishes status report |
| • Issue 1149 (2025-11-24): MX Linux 25, why are video drivers special, systemd experiments with musl, Debian Libre Live publishes new media, Xubuntu reviews website hack |
| • Issue 1148 (2025-11-17): Zorin OS 18, deleting a file with an unusual name, NetBSD experiments with sandboxing, postmarketOS unifies its documentation, OpenBSD refines upgrades, Canonical offers 15 years of support for Ubuntu |
| • Issue 1147 (2025-11-10): Fedora 43, the size and stability of the Linux kernel, Debian introducing Rust to APT, Redox ports web engine, Kubuntu website off-line, Mint creates new troubleshooting tools, FreeBSD improves reproducible builds, Flatpak development resumes |
| • Issue 1146 (2025-11-03): StartOS 0.4.0, testing piped commands, Ubuntu Unity seeks help, Canonical offers Ubuntu credentials, Red Hat partners with NVIDIA, SUSE to bundle AI agent with SLE 16 |
| • Issue 1145 (2025-10-27): Linux Mint 7 "LMDE", advice for new Linux users, AlmaLinux to offer Btrfs, KDE launches Plasma 6.5, Fedora accepts contributions written by AI, Ubuntu 25.10 fails to install automatic updates |
| • Issue 1144 (2025-10-20): Kubuntu 25.10, creating and restoring encrypted backups, Fedora team debates AI, FSF plans free software for phones, ReactOS addresses newer drivers, Xubuntu reacts to website attack |
| • Issue 1143 (2025-10-13): openSUSE 16.0 Leap, safest source for new applications, Redox introduces performance improvements, TrueNAS Connect available for testing, Flatpaks do not work on Ubuntu 25.10, Kamarada plans to switch its base, Solus enters new epoch, Frugalware discontinued |
| • Issue 1142 (2025-10-06): Linux Kamarada 15.6, managing ZIP files with SQLite, F-Droid warns of impact of Android lockdown, Alpine moves ahead with merged /usr, Cinnamon gets a redesigned application menu |
| • Issue 1141 (2025-09-29): KDE Linux and GNOME OS, finding mobile flavours of Linux, Murena to offer phones with kill switches, Redox OS running on a smartphone, Artix drops GNOME |
| • Issue 1140 (2025-09-22): NetBSD 10.1, avoiding AI services, AlmaLinux enables CRB repository, Haiku improves disk access performance, Mageia addresses service outage, GNOME 49 released, Linux introduces multikernel support |
| • Issue 1139 (2025-09-15): EasyOS 7.0, Linux and central authority, FreeBSD running Plasma 6 on Wayland, GNOME restores X11 support temporarily, openSUSE dropping BCacheFS in new kernels |
| • Issue 1138 (2025-09-08): Shebang 25.8, LibreELEC 12.2.0, Debian GNU/Hurd 2025, the importance of software updates, AerynOS introduces package sets, postmarketOS encourages patching upstream, openSUSE extends Leap support, Debian refreshes Trixie media |
| • Issue 1137 (2025-09-01): Tribblix 0m37, malware scanners flagging Linux ISO files, KDE introduces first-run setup wizard, CalyxOS plans update prior to infrastructure overhaul, FreeBSD publishes status report |
| • Issue 1136 (2025-08-25): CalyxOS 6.8.20, distros for running containers, Arch Linux website under attack,illumos Cafe launched, CachyOS creates web dashboard for repositories |
| • Issue 1135 (2025-08-18): Debian 13, Proton, WINE, Wayland, and Wayback, Debian GNU/Hurd 2025, KDE gets advanced Liquid Glass, Haiku improves authentication tools |
| • Issue 1134 (2025-08-11): Rhino Linux 2025.3, thoughts on malware in the AUR, Fedora brings hammered websites back on-line, NetBSD reveals features for version 11, Ubuntu swaps some command line tools for 25.10, AlmaLinux improves NVIDIA support |
| • Issue 1133 (2025-08-04): Expirion Linux 6.0, running Plasma on Linux Mint, finding distros which support X11, Debian addresses 22 year old bug, FreeBSD discusses potential issues with pkgbase, CDE ported to OpenBSD, Btrfs corruption bug hitting Fedora users, more malware found in Arch User Repository |
| • Issue 1132 (2025-07-28): deepin 25, wars in the open source community, proposal to have Fedora enable Flathub repository, FreeBSD plans desktop install option, Wayback gets its first release |
| • Issue 1131 (2025-07-21): HeliumOS 10.0, settling on one distro, Mint plans new releases, Arch discovers malware in AUR, Plasma Bigscreen returns, Clear Linux discontinued |
| • Issue 1130 (2025-07-14): openSUSE MicroOS and RefreshOS, sharing aliases between computers, Bazzite makes Bazaar its default Flatpak store, Alpine plans Wayback release, Wayland and X11 benchmarked, Red Hat offers additional developer licenses, openSUSE seeks feedback from ARM users, Ubuntu 24.10 reaches the end of its life |
| • Full list of all issues |
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Featherweight Linux
Featherweight Linux was an installable live CD based on Feather Linux. It was a full featured distribution with a small foot print that was light and fast, even on older machines, but still carries a knockout punch. It comes with a minimal KDE desktop and several favourite applications.
Status: Discontinued
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View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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