DistroWatch Weekly |
DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 1068, 29 April 2024 |
Welcome to this year's 18th issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
This was an exciting week in the open source world, with new developments and releases coming from nearly every quarter. Fedora kicked off the week with a new release that features the latest GNOME and Plasma desktops and we talk about the new Fedora 40 release in our Feature Story. The Fedora project recently held a discussion about which desktop environment, GNOME or Plasma, should be the default in Fedora's Workstation edition in the future. Which desktop would you like to see as the default for Fedora? Let us know in this week's Opinion Poll. This week we saw new versions from such specialized projects as OSMC, TrueNAS, and Tails - providing new media appliances, privacy, and storage solutions. We also saw updates from EndeavourOS in the Arch community, the highly portable NetBSD published an update, and Debian-based Proxmox provided an update too. We have details on all of these below. The big splash at the end of the week came from Ubuntu and its many community spins and we share highlights of these releases as well. In our News section we specifically talk about security improvements in Ubuntu, plus report on Debian's election for the position of Project Leader. We also share information about Red Hat extending the life cycle of Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7 to a span of up to 14 years and Emmabuntus adding accessibility features. With all of these new releases becoming available, distro hoppers might be wondering if there are quicker ways to install and test new versions. We talk about two unusual approaches to testing Linux distributions - one of which involves using Bedrock Linux, a project that also published a new version this past week! Plus we are pleased to share the torrents we are seeding. We wrap up the week by thanking our generous donors and adding a new, media-focused distribution to our waiting list. We wish you all a wonderful week and happy reading!
This week's DistroWatch Weekly is presented by TUXEDO Computers.
Content:
- Review: Fedora 40 "KDE"
- News: Debian elects new Project Leader, Ubuntu's security enhancements, Red Hat extends support for RHEL 7, Emmabuntus adds accessibility features
- Questions and answers: Transform one distribution into another
- Released last week: Fedora 40, Ubuntu 24.04, NetBSD 9.4, EndeavourOS 2024.04.20, TrueNAS 24.04.0 "SCALE"
- Torrent corner: Fedora, NetBSD, Tails, Ubuntu
- Upcoming releases: FreeBSD 14.1-BETA1
- Opinion poll: Fedora Workstation's default desktop
- Site news: Donations and sponsors
- New distributions: LibraZiK
- Reader comments
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Feature Story (By Jesse Smith) |
Fedora 40 "KDE"
The Fedora distribution is a community project sponsored by Red Hat/IBM which provides a cutting-edge yet fixed-release platform. Fedora often acts as a testing grounds for young technologies, particularly development tools.
Fedora 40 is no exception to this trend and includes desktop technologies such as GNOME 46 and KDE Plasma 6. Fedora's latest release also includes Podman 5, version 14 of the GNU Compiler Collection, and Clang/LLVM 18. Fedora is pushing for the shift away from X11 sessions to Wayland only and this release removes the X11 session from Plasma 6 by default, though X11 session options can be enabled later by the user.
Earlier this year we mentioned there was a proposal to switch Fedora's Workstation edition from using GNOME to the KDE Plasma spin. Red Hat has always been a GNOME-focused company and, despite some good points raised in the KDE spin's favour, the proposal has been rejected, with Project Leader (and Red Hat employee) Matthew Miller closing the discussion.
Still, the idea of using the new Plasma 6 desktop for just the second time, and the first time since its stable release, appealed to me. I decided to take Fedora 40's KDE Plasma spin for a test run to see how it would work. The KDE spin is about 2.5GB in size and was accompanied by a handy checksum file to help verify the media's integrity. Fedora's ISO files also contain self-check options which run by default when we boot from the live media, adding a further layer of confirmation that we downloaded the distribution without issues.
When I tried running Fedora in a VirtualBox environment the distribution ran into a number of issues. The first of which was the distribution would lock up while booting and display a blank screen in the virtual machine. After over five minutes of nothing happening and the system not responding to keyboard input, I stopped the VirtualBox instance. I kept trying and found when I took the Troubleshooting option in the boot menu and selected booting Fedora in basic graphics mode the system would run successfully. This worked and enabled me to boot Fedora into the Plasma desktop. When running Fedora on my desktop computer the live media booted with the default settings without any issues and brought me to the Plasma environment on the first try. I later tried the Fedora Workstation edition briefly, featuring GNOME, and ran into the same experience. Fedora Workstation failed to boot in VirtualBox unless run in basic graphics mode. However, the Workstation edition could boot on physical hardware without issues.
The Plasma session is arranged with a single desktop icon for launching the system installer placed in the upper-left corner. A thick panel is placed across the bottom of the screen. This panel holds the application menu, quick-launch icons, task switcher, and system tray. A welcome window runs when the Plasma session starts and offers to show us some key features. The welcome window tells us about accessing the Plasma settings panel, provides an overview of key features such as KDE Connect, Vaults, and the Discover software manager. The welcome window wraps up its presentation by encouraging users to get involved and donate to KDE.

Fedora 40 -- The Plasma 6 desktop with classic application menu
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When I first started using Fedora in the VirtualBox environment I found my screen resolution was limited to 1024x768 with no way to change it. I thought this was a side-effect of running the distribution in a safe boot mode, but that turned out not to be the case, as I'll discuss later. When running the distribution on my workstation the distribution was able to make use of my full screen resolution.
Installer
Fedora uses a graphical system installer called Anaconda. The installer uses a hub-style central screen where we can launch configuration modules. These hubs guide us through disk partitioning, selecting our keyboard layout, picking a username and password, connecting to a network, and enabling/disabling the root account. Most of these screens worked well and have a nice, simple layout. There were two exceptions to this general ease of use though. The first was the networking screen which gives us the option of setting our hostname. Whatever I typed into the hostname field disappeared when I hit the Apply button and the hostname for the machine displayed to the side of the screen did not change. However, after I finished installing Fedora the new copy of the distribution did use the hostname I had selected. In other words, the screen works, but acts as though it has not applied the new name successfully.
The other problem is the partitioning screen which is unusually complicated. Manual partitioning with Fedora is a bit of a mess of options and unclear screens compared to using the Ubiquity or Calamares installers. There is a guided partitioning option, but it is fully automated and doesn't tell the user what choices it will make or offer any options to help us direct it. This means the user gets no input into filesystem type, layout, or swap space when taking the guided option and received no information on what the installer will do on our behalf. This is a bit unsettling, especially if we're interested in setting up a dual-boot situation. For what it's worth, Fedora defaults to using Btrfs for the root filesystem if we use the guided approach. No swap partition or swap file is created.
Once the configuration steps have been completed the installer displays some simple progress information while it sets up the distribution on the local computer. While packages were being copied to my hard drive the Plasma panel flickered constantly like it was crashing or restarting. It settled down when disk activity eased off and the installer finished. Anaconda then reported it was finished and returned me to the live desktop.
Early impressions
Fedora, once installed, boots to a graphical login screen with a single session option (Plasma on Wayland). The first time a user signs in the Plasma welcome window appears to tell us about the available features, settings, and Discover software centre. We are also asked how much information we are willing to send to the Plasma developers. A sliding scale is presented we can drag. At one end of the scale no information is sent while at the other end lots of details about our system and application usage is sent. To the credit of the developers the default is not to send any information.

Fedora 40 -- Selecting the level of information we want to share
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When I first started using Fedora the system was running heavily, producing a lot of disk activity. This stopped when a notification popped up on the desktop letting me know PIM was finished its task. PIM, in this case, I think is referring to the Personal Information Management software for KDE. However, the notice didn't say what PIM was doing or why it had tasks when I was just getting started.
On and off during my time with Fedora I'd see crash alerts appear in the pop-up area when I signed in. This did not always happen, but frequently occurred. These alerts didn't say specifically what had gone wrong and there wasn't an obvious option to silence them.
When I first started using Plasma 6 I thought there was something wrong with the desktop panel as it didn't quite touch the bottom of the screen, leaving an empty, wasted space under the panel. Then I remembered this is a feature of Plasma 6, one of the new defaults which was not featured when I tested the desktop's beta on KaOS last year. I looked for an option to change this behaviour in the System Settings panel, but couldn't find a toggle for it. With some exploration I found I could put the desktop panel into Edit Mode and then there was a toggle to disable the "floating" behaviour. This worked on my desktop computer, but the panel remained firmly "floaty" in the virtual machine until I had also resized the panel once to force it to move and redraw.
On the subject of the desktop panel, I've always found Plasma's approach to editing the layout of the panel awkward and it has not, in my opinion, improved. There are a lot of options, some really cool and powerful options available. I love being able to switch out widgets, like the clock and application menu for similar "alternatives" which provide similar widget functionality in a different style. However, it's really easy to accidentally drag a widget to a new location when trying to move another widget or icon it contains. For example, once during my trial I meant to move the panel (I had toggled the control to change the panel's location) and instead ended up moving the task switcher off the panel and into the middle of the desktop. The widget then refused to move from that location until I'd turned off Edit Mode, re-entered Edit Mode, and dragged the task switcher back down to the panel. It was moments like these, with directional arrows on each edge of the screen, a floating task switcher, a pop-up panel for desktop settings, and a pop-up for the desktop panel all cluttering my screen that made me think Plasma 6 could be a bit overwhelming. Not because it doesn't work, but because it's just so cluttered and all over the place in terms of its design.
Apologizes, I digress. On to more mundane elements.
The Plasma desktop locks after five minutes of being idle, which I find far too short a period. This can be changed easily in the System Settings panel. The default look of the desktop uses a light window theme with a dark panel and dark application menu. I tried switching to the dark theme for a while and mostly liked it. However, not all applications follow the desktop's theme (Firefox was a clear rebel in this case) and I felt the light theme provided the more consistent experience.

Fedora 40 -- Testing the dark theme
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Hardware
When running Fedora on my workstation the distribution detected all of my hardware. The distribution ran fairly smoothly (apart from the occasional crash alert which didn't affect my experience apart from distracting me with pop-ups). Performance was average while running and the overall system was stable. Booting Fedora, which worked in UEFI and Legacy BIOS modes, was a little slower than normal, but not by a significant amount.
When running in VirtualBox Fedora did not do as well. Performance was still in the average range and the system was usually stable. However, even when installed and run in normal graphics mode the Plasma session was locked at 1024x768 pixels. When run on my workstation I could scale the desktop to any supported resolution, but in VirtualBox I couldn't raise or decrease the resolution. This was a first for me, and not an experience I'd encountered with either Wayland or X11 sessions in the past.
Again, while most of my trial was with the Plasma spin of Fedora 40, I also tried the Workstation edition and ran into the same issue with GNOME. The GNOME desktop was stuck at 1024x768 pixels when run in a virtual machine, unable to resize up or down.
At various points during my trial I attempted some ways to unlock my screen resolution in VirtualBox. I switched VirtualBox video drivers, I confirmed VirtualBox guest additions were installed (Fedora had set up the additions package automatically). I tried switching to the X11 session (by installing the plasma-workspace-x11 package and signing into the Plasma on X11 session. This approach not only didn't change my screen resolution options, but it revealed additional problems. For example, the entire left pane of the System Settings panel is painted black (when using the Light theme) and none of the controls are visible in the panel when in an X11 session. We can still click the controls, they just aren't visible to the user. I also tried installing additional X11 video drivers, but having these on the system caused the X11 Plasma session to no longer load, kicking me back to the login page whenever I tried to sign in.

Fedora 40 -- The System Settings panel in the X11 session
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These problems are not, I'd like to point out, an issue strictly with Plasma 6 or the test environment. I ran the Plasma 6 beta with Wayland and X11 sessions using the KaOS distribution in these same test environments and did not have these stability or resolution issues.
A fresh install of Fedora uses about 5.5GB of disk space, which is fairly typical of mainstream Linux distributions these days. What was a surprise was the memory usage. Fedora, in both test environments, used just over 2.0GB of RAM when signed into the Plasma desktop with no applications running. I have never encountered a Linux distribution, even one running ZFS with a heavy desktop environment, come close to this level of memory usage. It's about twice the RAM usage of Ubuntu-based distributions running GNOME, three times larger than most popular Linux distributions running Plasma 5, and around four times heavier than most distributions running Xfce. I'm going to be curious, as I get to test other distributions running Plasma 6 over the coming months, if this extra memory usage is a case of Plasma 6 being three times heavier than Plasma 5 or if this is an issue with Fedora.
Earlier I mentioned the Fedora installer does not set up a swap file or swap partition. Instead it creates a compressed zRAM device which resides in memory. This causes unused memory to be compressed while still in RAM rather than shuffled out to the slower disk. The zRAM device is set up to be equal in size to our machine's RAM.
Some people might read the above two paragraphs about excessive memory usage and the compressed swap device in RAM and wonder if the latter causes the former. The answer is: no. Even with the zRAM device disabled and removed entirely, Fedora still uses 2.0GB of RAM when signed into the desktop.
Applications
The Plasma edition of Fedora ships with a mostly KDE-centric collection of software, outside of a few popular exceptions. We're given the Firefox web browser, the LibreOffice suite, and a complex firewall utility. Beyond this, most applications are in the KDE family. For example, the KDE Connect software, KMail, the KRDC remote desktop client, and NeoChat Matrix client are provided. The Elisa music player and Dragon video player are included along with the Kamoso webcam utility. I was able to play audio files, but not video files with the default players. I later installed VLC from Flathub and achieved the ability to watch video files.
The Okular document viewer is included along with a small painting program. The System Settings panel allows us to adjust most aspects of the desktop, and a few small games are included. The Dolphin file manager is installed for us along with the KDE Help application which provides an overview of the desktop and its capabilities.
In the background we find OpenJDK is installed and provides Java capabilities. GNU command line tools are installed along with manual pages. The systemd init software manages services for us and Fedora ships with version 6.8 of the Linux kernel.
When we type the name of a command in a terminal and that command is not installed on the system, the distribution will pause and look up the name of the package we need to fetch to have access to the missing program. This is a nice idea, but in practice it becomes annoying after a few days. The delays while the system looks up possible package matches, especially in the case of a typo, ends up adding delays between commands. I prefer openSUSE's approach which will simply advise us to run a command if we wish to look up the package associated with a command, skipping the awkward delay while providing the same functionality.
Software management
The KDE edition of Fedora uses the Discover software centre. Discover displays a pane of tabs offering software categories, update options, and settings down the left side of the window. On the right we see recommended applications, search results, and options in the selected settings modules. Discover makes it fairly easy to browse through categories and sub-categories of applications. It also makes it possible to search for items. Clicking on an application opens a full page description and screenshot for us to view.
Something I appreciate about Discover is it makes it possible to manage repositories, both classic RPM repositories and portable package formats. There is, for instance, a single button we can press in the Settings section to enable the Flathub repository. Then, when we are looking at a specific application, a button at the top of the screen allows us to select the source of the selected package, enabling us to pick whether to install a Flatpak or RPM package.

Fedora 40 -- The Discover software centre
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Discover handles updates and, when new updates are available, an icon in the system tray notifies us of the new packages. Clicking the system tray icon launches Discover and displays the software centre's Updates page. Discover can handle both Flatpak and RPM updates, with low-level system packages grouped together in one bundle called "system upgrade".
One thing I didn't like about using Discover, at least as it runs on Fedora, is that the software centre offers to "restart automatically" when performing upgrades and, if we decline, will then prompt us to reboot once the update is finished. Once we do reboot the computer, the second stage of the update kicks in, locking the system while new packages are installed. This can take a few seconds for small updates, but large updates can take several minutes. (I ran one large update that added nearly ten minutes to my boot time.) This is terribly slow and awkward compared to the update process of virtually every other Linux distribution and BSD flavour.
What adds frustration to this update experience is that it only happens when using Discover. When I chose to fetch updates through the command line tools, DNF and Flatpak, no reboot was suggested and there was no delay to apply changes when I next booted the distribution. This needlessly punishes users of the graphical tools with a much more awkward and slower experience with no benefit to the person sitting at the computer.
On the subject of DNF, it's a capable command line package manager. I like the way DNF structures output and it has a nice, easy to remember syntax (at least for English speakers). DNF is still painfully slow compared to APT, pacman, and apk, but it's otherwise a solid and user friendly way to manage RPM packages. One thing I found odd about using DNF this time around is it no longer uses delta updates to speed up the upgrade process. In the past delta updates were used to improve download speeds when upgrading larger packages like Firefox or LibreOffice, but this feature is no longer available.
Conclusions
Fedora has always been a bit of a testing ground. Rightly or wrongly it is often viewed as a beta snapshot for upcoming releases of Red Hat Enterprise Linux and, even if we dismiss that viewpoint, it is certainly a proving ground for various third-party projects like GNOME, KDE, systemd, and various developer tools. This means each release of Fedora tends to feel like a beta test rather than a stable release and Fedora 40 very much fits this description.
Some of this choppy behaviour and lack of polish was due to the young Plasma 6 desktop environment. While the KDE team have done a decent job at putting out a new release that is an evolutionary step rather forward than a dramatic fall down the stairs (as we saw with KDE4), there are some issues. There are a few rough edges, some instability, and some nagging problems, particularly with the desktop panel and the System Settings panel. The overall experience isn't bad, but with new desktop releases there are always a few surprises. In my case most of these happened in the virtual machine rather than on my workstation.
Other elements of this unpolished experience were more central to Fedora. The huge amount of memory consumption, making Fedora the heaviest Linux distribution I have used by nearly 50%, was a shock. The system installer is still awkward in places and has a weird layout, especially when it comes to disk partitioning. It feels odd to see Fedora continue to struggle with this when projects like Ubiquity, Calamares, and Pop!_OS have solved these problems years ago. Likewise, Fedora is one of the only distributions, apart from immutable projects, which insists on rebooting to a special update process for every little update. This feels like such a waste of time and a weird regression after spending the past 25 years in the Linux ecosystem where updating has generally been quick and transparent in the background, requiring no pause and (for the userland packages) no reboot.
There were other issues which were less of a serious concern, but odd. Mostly things that were missing from Fedora that are available in other distributions. For example, not being able to adjust Plasma's screen resolution in VirtualBox. This worked with Plasma 6 running on KaOS in VirtualBox (and with GNOME on every other distribution I've used), but not when running either of these desktops on Fedora.
Also on the subject of things missing or half-there, something else I find odd is Fedora's insistence of using Flatpak bundles and enabling a repository by default, but not the Flathub repository. We get some Flatpak bundles, but are cut off from others. I suppose this comes down to a licensing issue, but it can't be a terrible concern because we can enable both Flathub and RPMFusion's non-free repositories with single clicks in Discover, so it's not as though the Fedora project objects to providing us with access to these sources. No longer having delta RPM packages to speed up updates was a disappointment.
I feel there are some positives in Fedora 40 too. Hardware support was good, performance was decent. While Plasma 6 does seem to have some stability issues, the underlying operating system was rock solid. Fedora may be a testing ground for unfinished software, but it's providing a solid foundation of its core.
My main disappointment this time around was that Fedora, while the project has made the jump to using Btrfs as the default filesystem, still hasn't done anything with Btrfs and its advanced features. openSUSE, FreeBSD, and Linux Mint have filesystem snapshots integrated with their update processes, they have graphical tools for browsing snapshots, and they can revert changes or switch boot environments on the fly. Fedora has yet to make any strides in this area and it feels like a waste. They've introduced the complexity of an advanced filesystem while skipping most of the benefits.
I believe my last observation sums up the current state of Fedora. It feels like a collection of separate packages, with developers all trying out the latest technologies, but without coordination. We do get access to the latest upstream software, we can test out compilers, Python, containers, and the latest desktop environments as our hearts may desire. We can test run Btrfs, Plasma 6, systemd, and the latest stable kernel releases. Fedora is a cutting-edge testing arena, a playground of nearly unparalleled goodies for cutting-edge enthusiasts to enjoy. If test driving new technologies, or developing new technologies, is your thing then Fedora has you covered. However, outside of being a beta testing ground, Fedora tends to feel like it is missing things - in terms of user friendliness, in terms of consistency, in terms of half-finished solutions, and resource usage.
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Hardware used in this review
My physical test equipment for this review was a Lenovo desktop with the following specifications:
- Processor: Hex-core Intel i5-10400 CPU @ 2.90GHz
- Storage: Western Digital 1TB hard drive
- Memory: 8GB of RAM
- Networking: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 wired network card, Realtek RTL8822CE 802.11ac PCIe wireless adapter
- Display: Intel CometLake-S GT2
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Visitor supplied rating
Fedora has a visitor supplied average rating of: 8.3/10 from 362 review(s).
Have you used Fedora? You can leave your own review of the project on our ratings page.
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Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
Debian elects new Project Leader, Ubuntu's security enhancements, Red Hat extends support for RHEL 7, Emmabuntus adds accessibility features
This month the Debian team held the project's annual election for the position of Project Leader. The results of the vote have been published with Andreas Tille winning the position of Debian Project Leader after just over one-third of the Debian Developers voted. Congratulations, Tille, and best of luck over the coming year!
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The Ubuntu distribution and its community editions were front-and-centre in the news in the second half of the week. While most eyes turned to new features and updated desktop environments, Mondoo placed a spotlight on Ubuntu's new security features and improvements since Ubuntu 22.04. "In the mere two years since the previous LTS release of Ubuntu shipped, the technology landscape has changed in profound ways. Because we've seen an explosion of ransomware attacks and critical Linux CVEs, it's more important than ever to secure Linux systems. Thankfully, the industry has responded with a focus on security in Linux core components. That emphasis makes Ubuntu 24.04 perhaps the most important Ubuntu release ever for those concerned with securing their systems. We've combed through various Linux project changelogs, Debian package maintainer mailing lists, and piles of pages on Canonical's Launchpad system to bring you a definitive list of everything new in security in Ubuntu 24.04." The blog post goes on to list improvements to security in networking, the kernel, access control, and migrations against CPU attacks.
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Following on the heels of Canonical announcing 12 years of extended support for Ubuntu long-term support (LTS) releases, Red Hat has decided to offer up to 14 years of support for Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) version 7. "As we near the end of the standard 10-year life cycle of RHEL 7, some IT organizations are finding that they cannot complete their planned migrations before June 30, 2024. To support IT teams while they catch up on their migration schedules, Red Hat is announcing a one-time, 4 year ELS maintenance period for RHEL 7 ELS. While Red Hat is providing more time, we strongly recommend customers migrate to a newer version of RHEL to take advantage of new features and enhancements." Red Hat also plans to extend support for versions 8 and 9 of RHEL by three additional years. Details can be found in the company's blog post.
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The Emmabuntus project is working to add accessibility features which will assist visually impaired users. "To add accessibility features to Emmabuntüs for the visually impaired, we are going to include in our Linux distribution two new features: the screen reader Orca associated with the Svox Pico voice synthesizer to help the blind, and the Compiz window manager with its accessibility module (full-screen zoom, screen brightness change, etc.) for the visually impaired. These software will be added: eBook-reader/Calibre for reading digital books in ePub format, Elograf for voice dictation, and the voice version of Tux Typing for the keyboard training, as well as NatBraille [Fr] software for generating books in Braille." The project is currently seeking English speaking users who can help test the new accessibility features and provide feedback. Volunteers can be in touch through the distribution's contact page.
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Transform one distribution into another
Wanting-a-change asks: Someone told me it's possible to use a script to change one distro into another one, like taking a running Linux Mint and running a script to turn it into Ubuntu. Is this really possible and, if it is, then why don't more distro-hoppers do this?
DistroWatch answers: Before I talk about the general idea of altering one Linux distribution to turn it into another distribution, I want to discuss the specific example of turning Mint into Ubuntu.
The Linux Mint distribution is based on Ubuntu's long-term support (LTS) releases. The Mint team basically takes Ubuntu, adds a handful of their own utilities (like an update manager and X-Apps), and applies their own theme. I don't mean to belittle the hard work of the Mint team, in my opinion they do amazing work. However, at the core of Linux Mint, it is Ubuntu.
To transform Mint into Ubuntu you could probably just remove Mint's custom tools and themes, and instruct the package manager to pull in new packages from Ubuntu's repositories instead of Mint's. Then your work would be mostly complete. This would be fairly easy to test and script and likely wouldn't take long. The process is relatively straight forward because Ubuntu and Mint are closely related in the Linux family tree.
What happens though if we want to transform one distribution into another distribution from an entirely different family? This can still be accomplished, but it won't be a matter of removing a few packages, switching over the repositories, and installing a few new packages. Distributions from different families typically use different package managers, maybe even different system libraries, and might use different init software. It's less straight forward to make the change, though it can still be accomplished.
Really, when you get down to it, a Linux distribution is just a collection of files, usually sitting on the same partition. As long as we can wrangle the core files for a distribution into a filesystem and boot from that new filesystem, our task will be successfully. Turning one Linux distribution into another is pretty close to what a system installer does. We typically run system installers from live media running the same distribution we want to install, but a similar approach can be used to transform a distribution. Or, more accurately, we can use just about any distribution to set up a new filesystem, install a new distribution into that filesystem, likely using a chroot environment, and then overwrite the old distribution with the new one.
Anyone who has followed the Arch Linux install guide has performed a similar feat, setting up a new distribution on a filesystem. A script that would change one distribution into another would basically perform these same steps, plus remove the original distribution.
In short: yes, it is possible to turn one distribution into another. You could probably script the process, though you'd need a new script for every distro combination. For example, you'd need one script to replace Alpine Linux with Debian and another script entirely to replace Fedora with Slackware.
As to why people don't do this more often, it's simply because replacing one distribution with another while the first one is running is possibly the most awkward, error-prone, and complicated way to end up with a new distribution. As I mentioned above, transforming one distribution into another would require a different script for every distribution combination and if anything went wrong then you'd be left with quite a mess to clean up, likely a broken merger of two dissimilar environments.
As I pointed out above, transforming one distribution into another is similar to what a system installer does, but with more steps. Since it is less complicated and cleaner (not to mention faster) to simply wipe an operating system's partition and replace it with a fresh, new distribution, this is the approach typically used.
With all of that said, there is another approach you can take. Bedrock Linux is a meta Linux distribution which allows multiple distributions to be installed on the same partition and grants the user the ability to run programs from each distro. Bedrock also makes it possible to install new distributions or remove old ones, all from the same shared environment. If you're really interested in distro-hopping and don't want to perform fresh installs from live media, then Bedrock is probably the best way to accomplish this.
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Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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Released Last Week |
NetBSD 9.4
The developers of the highly portable NetBSD operating system have announced the release of an update to their NetBSD 9.x branch. The new NetBSD 9.4 release mostly contains bug fixes and minor upgrades. The project has also issued a warning about the 9.4 release containing an out of date version of OpenSSL for compatibility purposes: "NetBSD 9.4 contains various improvements pulled up from the current branch to the netbsd-9 stable branch since NetBSD 9.3 was cut on August 4, 2022. NetBSD 9.4 is primarily a bug and security fix release, however, there are some new features, such as support for more MegaRAID controllers, ZTE MF112 and D-Link DWM222 USB 3G modems, and improved CPU feature detection for newer AMD/Intel devices. All users of netbsd-9 should upgrade if they are not following the stable branch. Important: the version of OpenSSL included with NetBSD 9.x is now unsupported unless a support contract is purchased from OpenSSL, and cannot be upgraded without breaking the ABI compatibility we've promised for the netbsd-9 branch. Users are recommended to update to NetBSD 10 or use OpenSSL from pkgsrc." The release announcement offers additional information.
Fedora 40
Matthew Miller has announced the release of Fedora 40. The new release features GNOME 46, KDE Plasma 6, and PyTorch for deep learning tasks. The release announcement shares the highlights: "Fedora Workstation Edition features the GNOME desktop environment, now updated to version 46. Check out What's New in Fedora Workstation 40? for the highlights! The KDE Spin now includes KDE Plasma 6, and runs with Wayland out of the box. Read more about that and other KDE Spin updates at What's New in Fedora KDE 40? We're also officially reviving the 'Fedora Atomic Desktop' brand for all of our variants which use ostree or image-based provisioning. Our technology isn't really 'immutable', so this provides a better grouping. Read more about this at Introducing Fedora Atomic Desktops - but in short, Fedora Silverblue and Fedora Kinoite will remain, while the other desktop variants will become Fedora Sway Atomic and Fedora Budgie Atomic."

Fedora 40 -- Running the GNOME desktop
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EndeavourOS 2024.04.20
Bryan Poerwo has announced the release of EndeavourOS 2024.04.20, code-named "Gemini", a major update of the project's desktop Linux distribution based on Arch Linux. This release features KDE Plasma 6, a choice of X11 or Wayland display servers and a Calamares installer ported to the Qt 6 toolkit: "With the arrival of Plasma 6 and Qt 6, it was high time to celebrate them with a new major release. Gemini ships with: Calamares 3.3.5, Firefox 125.0.1, Linux kernel 6.8.7, Mesa 24.0.5, NVIDIA 550.76-1, X.Org Server 21.1.13. New features and fixes: Plasma 6 on both the Live environment and the offline installation option - the Live environment runs X11 to ensure support for all hardware and when Plasma is chosen as the installed DE, both offline and online options, Wayland will be the default, but X11 can be chosen as an option in SDDM; we switched from NVIDIA-dkms to NVIDIA packages - NVIDIA-dkms was causing issues, like freezing the Live environment when NVIDIA boot was chosen on the ISO image; ARM installation option is removed; EFI partiton is created correctly when 'replace partition' option is chosen...." Read the rest of the release announcement for further details.
TrueNAS 24.04.0 "SCALE"
Pee Jay Latombo has announced the availability of TrueNAS SCALE 24.04, a major new update of iXsystems's specialist, Debian-based distribution designed for NAS (network-attached storage) computers. This release adds new SMB and NFS status pages for active session monitoring and administration: "After a successful beta release and the fastest adoption of release candidate software in TrueNAS history, TrueNAS SCALE 24.04 'Dragonfish' roars onto the scene in its official release today. As the fourth major version of TrueNAS SCALE, 24.04 brings forward major performance improvements, new features and expanded hardware support. SMB Client Auditing has been added to the TrueNAS web UI. This audit trail provides TrueNAS administrators the ability to monitor client activity graphically through Web-Driven queries, as well as exporting of reports for offline auditing compliance. Live client sessions for both the SMB and NFS file-sharing protocols can also be viewed and managed from the TrueNAS web UI, allowing you to identify which files are open and in use by connected users. Use the new Sessions icon on the Sharing screen to explore this new functionality." See the release announcement and the release notes for further details.
Proxmox 8.2 "Virtual Environment"
Proxmox is a commercial company offering specialised products based on Debian GNU/Linux. The distribution's latest release is Proxmox 8.2 "Virtual Envionment" which is based on Debian 12.5 and includes built-in support for ZFS. "We are excited to announce that our latest software version 8.2 for Proxmox Virtual Environment is now available for download. This release is based on Debian 12.5 'Bookworm' but uses a newer Linux kernel 6.8, QEMU 8.1, LXC 6.0, Ceph 18.2 and ZFS 2.2. We have an import wizard to migrate VMware ESXi guests to Proxmox VE. The integrated VM importer is presented as storage plugin for native integration into the API and web-based user interface. You can use this to import the VM as a whole, with most of the original configuration settings mapped to Proxmox VE's configuration model. With the new proxmox-auto-install-assistant tool you can fully automate the setup process on bare-metal, rapidly deploying Proxmox VE hosts without the need for manual access to the systems." Additional details can be found in the project's release announcement and in the release notes.
OSMC 2024.04-1
Sam Nazarko has announced the release of OSMC 2024.04-1, an open-source media center distribution based on Debian's stable branch and featuring the popular Kodi home theatre software. This release updates Kodi to version 20.5. "We've been working hard to improve OSMC for all platforms and keep things running smoothly. We've also finalised our support for Kodi 21 and this will be the final release of Kodi 20, with test builds for Kodi 21 being made available on the forums in the coming days before an anticipated release in May. The end of 2023 was also busy for us, with the announcement of Vero V, our fifth iteration of our flagship device. We're happy to announce significant playback improvements to the device in this update. Vero 4K/4K+ and V users will now experience perfect AV sync playback after several months of hard work. Vero V users can now enjoy Dolby Vision compatible Profile 5 tonemapping with output to HDR and SDR. If you've ever played content that looks magenta and green, this is because it doesn't have a fallback layer. Vero V will now tonemap this and output it in the best possible format for your display." Read the full release announcement for a complete list of changes and improvements.
Ubuntu 24.04
Utkarsh Gupta has announced the release of Ubuntu 24.04, a long-term support (LTS) release. The latest version of Ubuntu carries the code name "Noble Numbat" and introduces the Subiquity system installer along with ZFS support and GNOME 46. "Our 10th Long Term Supported release sets a new standard in performance engineering, enterprise security and developer experience. Ubuntu Desktop brings the Subiquity installer to an LTS for the first time. In addition to a refreshed user experience and a minimal install by default, the installer now includes experimental support for ZFS and TPM-based full disk encryption and the ability to import auto-install configurations. Post install, users will be greeted with the latest GNOME 46 alongside a new App Center and firmware-updater. Netplan is now the default for networking configuration and supports bidirectionality with NetworkManager." Additional information can be found in the distribution's release announcement and in the release notes.

Ubuntu 24.04 -- Exploring the GNOME desktop
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Lubuntu 24.04
Lubuntu is an Ubuntu-based distribution which features the LXQt desktop environment. The project's latest release re-introduces an OEM install option, features a new installer prompt, and provides three install modes: Full, Normal, and Minimal. Minimal provides just a desktop environment with bare essentials, no web browser, and no Snap software. "Traditionally, installing Lubuntu only provides a regular installation mode (a single option for installs). This changes with Lubuntu 24.04, where you can now pick between Normal, Full, and Minimal. A Normal installation gives you a traditional Lubuntu experience. The Minimal mode ships with just the desktop environment and essential components (no web browser or snapd). A Full installation is the same as Normal, but comes with several recommended third-party apps: Virtual Machine Manager, Element, Thunderbird, Krita. In addition, you can choose to download and install updates during the installation procedure rather than having to install them afterwards. This can help speed up the installation process and get you up-and-running quicker." Additional details can be found in the project's release announcement.
Xubuntu 24.04
The Xubuntu project develops a community edition of Ubuntu featuring the Xfce desktop. The project's latest release introduces a Minimal edition option, swaps out GNOME Software for the Snap Store, and uses Pipewire for handling audio. "Xfce 4.18 is included and well-polished since it's initial release in December 2022. Xubuntu Minimal is included as an officially supported sub-project. GNOME Software has been replaced by Snap Store and GDebi. Snap Desktop Integration is now included for improved snap package support. Firmware Updater has been added to enable firmware updates in Xubuntu is included to support firmware updates from the Linux Vendor Firmware Service (LVFS). Thunderbird is now distributed as a Snap package. Ubiquity has been replaced by the Flutter-based Ubuntu Installer to provide fast and user-friendly installation. Pipewire (and wireplumber) are now included in Xubuntu. Improved hardware support for bluetooth headphones and touchpads. Color emoji is now included and supported in Firefox, Thunderbird, and newer GTK-based apps. Significantly improved screensaver integration and stability." Additional information is provided in the project's release announcement.
Ubuntu MATE 24.04
The Ubuntu MATE distribution provides the classic MATE desktop environment on top of an Ubuntu base. The project's latest release, version 24.04, ships with MATE 1.26.2 and a new system installer. The release announcement shares the following key changes: "What changed since the Ubuntu MATE 23.10? Here are the highlights of what's changed since the release of Ubuntu MATE 23.10: Ships stable MATE Desktop 1.26.2 with a selection of bug fixes and minor improvements to associated components. Integrated the new Ubuntu Desktop Bootstrap installer. Added GNOME Firmware, that replaces Firmware Updater. Added App Center, that replaces Software Boutique. Retired Ubuntu MATE Welcome; although it is still available for Ubuntu MATE 23.10 and earlier. Major applications: Accompanying MATE Desktop 1.26.2 and Linux 6.8 are Firefox 125, Celluloid 0.26, Evolution 3.52, LibreOffice 24.2.2. See the Ubuntu 24.04 Release Notes for details of all the changes and improvements that Ubuntu MATE benefits from."

Ubuntu MATE 24.04 -- Running the MATE desktop
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Ubuntu Cinnamon 24.04
The Ubuntu Cinnamon project has announced the release of Ubuntu Cinnamon 24.04, a long-term support (LTS) release. The new version includes Cinnamon 6.0, offers Nemo Actions (along with other Cinnamon spices), and experimental support for Wayland. "I'm proud to present the latest version of Ubuntu Cinnamon - 24.04 'Noble Numbat'. As this is an LTS release, it will be supported for 3 years. This release features Cinnamon 6.0 and the new flutter-based installer in the live image. Here are the changes specifically to Ubuntu Cinnamon for the release, only containing the main important parts and excluding the bug fixes behind the scenes: Cinnamon 6.0.4 desktop - the sound applet now rounds labels for the artist song names; the menu editor window can now be resized; desktop backgrounds can now accept the AVIF file format; ability to download Nemo Actions with other spices; experimental support for Wayland; minor fixes; the screensaver is disabled in Wayland sessions; stability fixes; Muffin window manager has experimental support for Wayland." The release announcement and release notes offer additional details.
Ubuntu Budgie 24.04
Nikola Stojic has announced the release of Ubuntu Budgie 24.04. The new release updates the Budgie desktop to version 10.9.1, which brings a broad range of improvements to the desktop, the Budgie control centre. It also introduces various new applets and mini-apps for an enhanced desktop experience. "We are pleased to announce the release of 24.04 LTS. The new release rolls up various fixes and optimizations that the Ubuntu Budgie team have been developing since the 22.04 release in April 2022: a brand-new installer; new and updated applets; hot corner and window shuffler; the very latest Budgie desktop and Budgie control center; lots of theme and icon updates to customise your experience; re-worked Budgie Welcome for installing all things Budgie, gaming and lot more; revamp of our default application line-up. We also inherit hundreds of stability and bug fixes as well as optimizations made to the underlying Ubuntu repositories." See the release announcement and the detailed release notes for more information, upgrade instructions and screenshots.
Ubuntu Studio 24.04
Erich Eickmeyer has announced the release of Ubuntu Studio 24.04, a new version of this specialist Ubuntu variant preinstalled with a selection of the most common free multimedia applications available. The new release introduces Pipewire 1.0 as the default multimedia server. "The Ubuntu Studio team is pleased to announce the release of Ubuntu Studio 24.04 LTS, code-named 'Noble Numbat'. This marks Ubuntu Studio's 34th release. This release is a long-term support release and as such, it is supported for 3 years (36 months, until April 2027). In cooperation with the Ubuntu Desktop team, we have an all-new desktop installer. This installer uses the underlying code of the Ubuntu Server installer ('Subiquity') which has been in use for years, with a frontend coded in 'Flutter'. Be on the lookout for a special easter egg when the graphical environment for the installer first starts. For those of you who have been long-time users of Ubuntu Studio since our early days (even before Xfce), you will notice exactly what it is. Now for the big one: PipeWire is now mature and this release contains PipeWire 1.0. With PipeWire 1.0 comes the stability and compatibility you would expect from multimedia audio." Additional information is offered in the release announcement and in the release notes.
Kubuntu 24.04
Aaron Honeycutt has announced that Kubuntu 24.04, a popular member of the Ubuntu family of distribution featuring the KDE Plasma desktop, has been released. Despite the KDE project's recent release of Plasma 6, the new Kubuntu continues with a tried-and-tested Plasma 5.27 as the default desktop: "The Kubuntu team is happy to announce that Kubuntu 24.04 has been released, featuring the 'beautiful' KDE Plasma 5.27, simple by default, powerful when needed. Code-named 'Noble Numbat', Kubuntu 24.04 continues our tradition of giving you friendly computing by integrating the latest and greatest open source technologies into a high-quality, easy-to-use Linux distribution. Under the hood, there have been updates to many core packages, including a new 6.8-based kernel, KDE Frameworks 5.115, KDE Plasma 5.27 and KDE Gear 23.08. Kubuntu has seen many updates for other applications, both in our default install and installable from the Ubuntu archive. Haruna, Krita, Kdevelop, Yakuake and many many more applications are updated. Applications for core day-to-day usage, such as Firefox and LibreOffice, are included and updated." Here are the release announcement (with a screenshot of the default desktop) and the release notes with a few more details.

Kubuntu 24.04 -- Running the Plasma desktop
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Ubuntu Unity 24.04
Ubuntu Unity is a flavour of Ubuntu featuring the Unity7 desktop environment, the former default desktop of Ubuntu. The project has published Ubuntu Unity 24.04, "Noble Numbat" which has swapped out the Ubiquity system installer for Calamares. "We've moved over to Calamares as the installer included in the ISO (similar to the Lubuntu and Ubuntu Studio installers on previous releases, if you've ever tried them, which for that matter, you definitely should!). We would like to thank Simon Quigley and Aaron Rainbolt for integrating Calamares with our existing Ubuntu Unity live session, and last-minute fixes for bugs reported prior to the final release. Now speaking of Lomiri, we're aware that for the past few years, a lot of you have been eagerly awaiting Lomiri desktop images. And well, for those of you, we have some thrilling news: the first 24.04 Lomiri testing ISO is now publicly available!" Additional information is provided in the project's release announcement. Links to the experimental Lomiri branch of the project can be found on the project's home page.
Edubuntu 24.04
Erich Eickmeyer has announced the release of Edubuntu 24.04, a special edition of Ubuntu with focus on education. The new release brings a new minimal install option and support for the Raspberry Pi 5 boards, among many other improvements: "We are pleased to announce the release of Edubuntu 24.04 LTS, code-named 'Noble Numbat'. This is the first long-term support in ten years and we are excited to have it available to everyone. Our vision is to allow Edubuntu to reach people that otherwise wouldn't be able to afford quality education software. Whether it's to supplement what you already have or to replace completely your education needs, we hope you enjoy it as much as we did working on it. This is a long-term support release and as such, it is supported for 3 years, until April 2027. Features: due to popular demand, we have released images for the Raspberry Pi 5; we have introduced a new metapackage, installable from Edubuntu Installer, for teaching tools; we have developed a metapackage for music education, installable from Edubuntu installer; Edubuntu now includes a minimal install option...." Here is the complete release announcement.
Ubuntu Kylin 24.04
Ubuntu Kylin is an official Ubuntu flavour whose primary goal is to create a variant of Ubuntu optimised for Chinese users (using the Simplified Chinese writing system), although it also supports other languages. The project's 24.04 release includes a number of improvements in the kernel to improve performance and hardware support, s well as visual changes to the desktop. "Ubuntu Kylin 24.04 is equipped with UKUI 4.0 desktop environment, which focuses on aesthetics and ease of use, and provides a wide range of personalized settings options. User can easily create a fitted desktop layout according to their preferences, making their work more convenient. The newly in-house developed file manager, Peony, boasts a visually appealing UI interface alongside convenient features, including file search, module view control, file sorting, disk mounting and formatting capabilities. The ukui-control-center not only has changed in UI style, but also has enriched many convenient system settings, such as user settings, display settings, sound settings, power settings, theme settings, language settings, application settings, etc." Additional details can be found in the distribution's release announcement.
Voyager Live 24.04
Voyager Live is an Ubuntu-based distribution featuring the Xfce and GNOME desktop environments. The project's latest release is version 24.04 which is supported through until April of 2029. "This version is based on the Linux 6.8 kernel and Ubuntu 'Noble Numbat' distribution. 24.04 is a five year LTS - long-term support - version with updates until April 2029, featuring GNOME and Xfce. With integrated options offered out of the box, like the new dark orange style theme, Night Mode, Conky Control, GNOME Shell Effects, Repair, Switch Ubuntu, Backup, WINE, gaming and GNOME extensions selected for all PC needs. A special Gaming profile of type has been created in Xfce. With a number of themes and wallpapers and essential software. This version contains Software - GNOME Software, which was preferred to that of Ubuntu's app centre, to manage Deb, Snap, and Flatpack packages together. Firefox was installed as a Deb for better compatibility with GNOME extensions and there are many other new features to discover. An upgrade script is also available, to go from version 23.10 to 24.04." The release announcement has additional details.
RISC OS 5.30
Steve Revill has announced the release of RISC OS 5.30, the latest stable version of the independently-developed computer operating system originally designed by Acorn Computers Ltd in 1987. It is available for some of the popular ARM computer boards, such as Beagleboard, IOMD, Iyonix, OMAP5, Pandaboard, Raspberry Pi and Titanium. "We are proud to announce RISC OS 5.30 is now available for the seven platforms that met or exceeded benchmark. The gestation time has allowed a bumper crop of 347 improvements to the 'HardDisc4' image and applications, and for the main operating system 'ROM' image around 329 improvements, the exact figure depends on which hardware you have. For the first time, the OMAP5, most commonly used with the IGEPv5 hardware design, has switched to a stable release after resolving a previously blocking issue with its video driver. For many new users the low-cost Raspberry Pi computer is their first inroad into using RISC OS. The ready made SD card image has been refreshed to include: Ovation Pro desktop publishing application; out-of-the-box WiFi support for those models which have the chip on board; the full read/write edition of SparkFS, now integrated into the standard distribution across all platforms...." Continue to the release announcement for further details.
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 2,991
- Total data uploaded: 44.3TB
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Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
Summary of expected upcoming releases
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Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) |
Fedora Workstation's default desktop
This week we talked about the latest release of Fedora and, a few weeks ago, we reported on a proposal to change Fedora Workstation's default desktop from GNOME to Plasma. Since Fedora 40 shipped with the experimental new Plasma 6 desktop this might have been a poor time to attempt a switch. However, the proposal did get people talking about whether an alternative to GNOME might be a better default, especially for new Linux users. What do you think? Did Fedora make the right choice sticking with GNOME or would you like to see another desktop get the spotlight in Fedora Workstation?
The choices presented here are taken from Fedora's current collection of desktop spins.
You can see the results of our previous poll on CPU architecture levels in our previous edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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Fedora Workstation should default to this desktop:
Budgie: | 20 (1%) |
Cinnamon: | 113 (7%) |
GNOME: | 352 (21%) |
i3: | 21 (1%) |
LXDE: | 16 (1%) |
LXQt: | 25 (1%) |
MATE: | 100 (6%) |
Plasma: | 482 (29%) |
SOAS: | 4 (0%) |
Sway: | 12 (1%) |
Xfce: | 500 (30%) |
Other: | 24 (1%) |
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Website News |
Donations and Sponsors
Each month we receive support and kindness from our readers in the form of donations. These donations help us keep the web server running, pay contributors, and keep infrastructure like our torrent seed box running. We'd like to thank our generous readers and acknowledge how much their contributions mean to us.
This month we're grateful for the $165 in contributions from the following kind souls:
Donor |
Amount |
J S | $50 |
Hernandez P.B. | $36 |
Steven C | $14 |
Christoph B | $10 |
Jonathon B | $10 |
Sam C | $10 |
Brian59 | $5 |
Chung T | $5 |
Darkeugene7896 | $5 |
DuCakedHare | $5 |
Surf3r57 | $5 |
J.D. L | $2 |
PB C | $2 |
Peter M | $2 |
c6WWldo9 | $1 |
Stephen M | $1 |
Shasheen E | $1 |
William E | $1 |
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New distributions added to waiting list
- LibraZiK. LibraZiK is a Debian-based distribution for digital audio-software studio and related documentation. It is designed for music production that allows you to install and use all the software tools you need to work with sound.
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DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 6 May 2024. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Weekly Archive and Article Search pages. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
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Tip Jar |
If you've enjoyed this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly, please consider sending us a tip. (Tips this week: 0, value: US$0.00) |
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Extended Lifecycle Support by TuxCare |
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Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Re: Plasma 6 (by eco2geek on 2024-04-29 01:00:22 GMT from United States)
Fedora's KDE Spin isn't the only one where, if you update the system using Discover, it'll download the updates and then tell you to reboot the system, then install the updates while it's rebooting. KDE neon does the same thing. So it looks like this is a feature, not a bug. It is annoying, so I usually use "pkcon" from the command line (which KDE neon recommends over the "apt" command. pkcon evidently uses the PackageKit back end that Discover uses only via the CLI.)
As to that floating bottom panel, it should settle to the bottom of the screen when you maximize an application window, then float up again once the application's no longer maximized.
When I updated KDE neon to Plasma 6, there were lots of graphical glitches, most involving the bottom panel displaying black text on a black background. For example, the calendar widget's normally white text was black so it was unreadable. I don't know if this is the "real" solution or not, but I went into Synaptic and saw a lot of Plasma 5 apps and libraries that were no longer installed, but still had residual configuration files on the disk. Once I removed all of those that I could find, the graphical glitches mostly disappeared. (Don't quote me on that as a solution. Maybe it was an updated package, as updates were coming in thick and fast -- and still are.)
2 • Fedora desktop default and stuff (by ThomasAnderson on 2024-04-29 01:05:59 GMT from Australia)
The ideal solution would be to give the user the choice during installation just like EndeavourOS and OpenSuse. The install image would have all the necessary desktop packages available which would negate downloading during installation.
Fedora Memory Hog This is surprising too considering that KDE distros are always lean usually hovering around the 700mb mark for memory utilization on boot.
KDE PIM is a package that contains personal information management tools. One user wrote "The problem is when I install packages from the kdepim group, for example Kmail, Korganizer, Kaddressbook, which I need in order to synchronize my CalDAV and CardDAV services: they pull the mariadb dependency and start a lot of processes from the akonadi group. While this is not a problem on my main laptop, it is on the low end one: 900MB-1GB ram usage on startup"
Perhaps this is the reason for the high memory usage in the KDE spin. Would need to see what apps are installed by default.
3 • Kubuntu Minimal (by tuxuntu on 2024-04-29 01:26:01 GMT from United States)
Kubuntu Minimal doesn't have web browser or snapd either. Xubuntu Minimal does, haven't tested the others.
4 • KDE Plasma as a choice of desktop. (by Bobbie Sellers on 2024-04-29 05:21:05 GMT from United States)
I have been using KDE in its updated versions for about 18 years. I think it must be a problem with the way the DE is setup for Fedora that it takes 2 GB of memory.
One thing that few non-users of KDE understand and even some users is that it can be configured in a number of different ways resembling nearly all the listed Desktop Environments I have seen so far. Before Covid restrictions went into place I used to download and try out most new versions released so I have some experience with non-KDE systems. When our packager is satisfied as to the reliability of Plasma 6 we will get it on PCLinuxOS.
bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2024.04- Linux 6.6.28-pclos1- KDE Plasma 5.27.11
5 • Fedora VBox, boot and resolution (by Mr. Moto on 2024-04-29 05:37:07 GMT from Philippines)
I downloaded Fedora KDE using the DW provided torrent. Installing on VBox, the Live ISO would not boot properly, but rather than change to safe graphics, I changed the VBox graphics settings to VBoxSVGA. Then it booted with no problem. The resolution was set at 800x600, but could be changed using the desktop context menu. Changed to 1920x1080, which is my normal desktop screen resolution. Installed with no glitches and adjusted resolution automatically once rebooted.
In fairness to Fedora, this has been a problem for me with VBox with quite a few distros. Either the resolution won't adjust, will revert if changed or will fail to boot with the default VMSVGA graphics settings. This, along with other glitches has led me to use KVM with Virt-Manager for my virtual machines.
6 • Fedora (by borgio3 on 2024-04-29 06:57:51 GMT from Italy)
The only to use Fedora is don't use it.
7 • Fedora (by borgio3 on 2024-04-29 06:59:04 GMT from Italy)
The only way to use Fedora is don't use it. Sorry
8 • Fedora (by Mr B on 2024-04-29 08:03:50 GMT from United Kingdom)
@6/7 I've never understood the appeal or point of Fedora at all, although I have tried it once or twice. Since Red Hat 're-positioned' CentOS to be on the development side of the distro lifecycle, Fedora seems to be fairly redundant. Added to that, a 6-month life for each release seems nuts to me. Nobody in their right mind would want a server you have to upgrade every 6 months.
9 • Fedora (by Patrick on 2024-04-29 08:05:17 GMT from Luxembourg)
I have been wanting to like Fedora, given it many tries, especially the KDE and XFCE version. It has always given me these "half-backed" vibes. It may be OK for developers, for the technically inclined, but hailing Fedora as the "best desktop distro" is just wrong. I've always gone back to Linux Mint, or plain Debian on arm64.
10 • Best security ever [- not] (by dob on 2024-04-29 08:22:41 GMT from United Kingdom)
Is this just Ubuntu’s latest ‘Vista’ ? security theatre masking protection racketeering.
Until there is a security-focussed approach towards system design, build and use: expect to see more ‘Jenga’ software stacks, and ‘responsible disclosures’ of system vulnerabilities.
11 • install updates during boot (by peer on 2024-04-29 08:57:09 GMT from The Netherlands)
#1: I use discover for updates in debian. The updates are installed directly. I do not have to reboot most of the time. And updates are not installed during boot. I do not know why discove in fedora works this way
12 • The only good thing about fedora ... (by myname on 2024-04-29 11:19:24 GMT from Germany)
... is that they ironically named their package manager DNF ("did not finish")!
13 • @9 & Fedroa (by kc1di on 2024-04-29 11:58:32 GMT from United States)
I with @9 I've been trying hard to like Fedora. But in the end always install a different Distro. Most of the time it's Mint. Fedora leaves me feeling like it's undone , not finished. And I have a dislike for dnf also. As far as which Desktop should be default I picked Plasma/kde But I'm with others who say the choice should be at the time of install like SuSE or Debian.
14 • Fedora 40 (by Richard Palmer on 2024-04-29 13:04:40 GMT from France)
I have to agree with Borgio3. I was momentarily seduced by the shiny new Fedora, but very disappointed, the final nail in the coffin being ...reboot to update, "please don't shut down your computer..." It's going the way of Windows!
15 • New Fedora and other Gnomes (by John on 2024-04-29 14:27:05 GMT from Canada)
First - @12 - hahahahahaha, I always thought the same thing :-)
However, I have noticed a big problem with the latest round of releases and Gnome 46. Trying various distros on my laptop (i7, 16GB RAM, 1TB NVME SSD and optimus graphics - Intel+Nvidia MX150)
- Fedora won't even boot! Hangs on GDM every time.
- Endeavour OS had huge resource usage (CPU threads very busy - never settled down)
- Ubuntu - I got it to boot and be useful, but again high CPU usage, and a very silly bug - every time I tried to change mouse cursor to Redglass (I like that one) - the whole desktop would crash. Even after reboot - as soon as I'd log in, crash.
16 • Fedora 40 KDE Spin (by Alvaro on 2024-04-29 15:37:26 GMT from Italy)
Between the 'final freeze' on April 2nd and the final release on April 23rd there are only 21 days of testing. Few to guarantee sufficient stability (especially with Plasma 6 on board). The problem is to lengthen the testing time: 4 months of development, 1 month of Alpha, 1 month of Beta and - at the end of the Beta month - there should be the final release. With 2 months of 'bug testing' things would improve a lot.
17 • Fedora (by David on 2024-04-29 15:39:15 GMT from United Kingdom)
The first distro I used was Red Hat. The first I installed by myself was Fedora 1. I abandoned Fedora in 2010 for exactly the lack of stability and polish mentioned in the review, although the last straw was Gnome 3, and I sought refuge with CentOS until Red Hat wrecked that One can understand RH prioritising their paying customers, but that can't excuse the way that they expect other users to act as guinea pigs.
18 • RAM at idle / Restart for software updates. (by Antony on 2024-04-29 15:42:02 GMT from United Kingdom)
My idle RAM usage (via htop): fedora 40 / Gnome approx 1GB Ubuntu 24.04 / Gnome approx 900 Mb MX Linux / Kde approx 800Mb
I am using nvidia drivers, which from memory always seem to contribute a couple of hundred Mb.
MX Linux uses Discover, but does not require restart for software updates.
I think Gnome looks nice, but I think KDE/Plasma is easier to just get on and get things done.
I normally use either opensuse (Tumbleweed) or Mageia (with both running KDE), but have lately been trying out MX Linux which seems quite nice (I liked Mepis when it first came out btw). Not having to have systemd is also good.
19 • Fedora KDE Plasma (by KnowHow on 2024-04-29 15:43:38 GMT from United States)
The best way to install Fedora KDE Plasma: use the Fedora-Everything Iso, then pick your DE! Not only can you select the DE, but you also can cherry-pick your preinstalled software packages - just like in the OpenSuse installer.
I wish the Fedora Everything installer would be the default. That way, everyone could be happy.
20 • DNF and Dnfdragora (by Alvaro on 2024-04-29 15:53:48 GMT from Italy)
@12 DNF/Dnfdragora is slow, but it is actually better and more secure than APT/Synaptic: when you try to uninstall a program with Synaptic you risk making the system unstable due to cross-dependency problems, while the same operation with Dnfdragora is painless. DNF/Dnfdragora is always preferable to Discover which I don't trust much.
21 • @19 (by Antony on 2024-04-29 15:55:20 GMT from United Kingdom)
Yes, as per opensuse (and Mageia) installers - choice of DE and even package groups is a nice option.
22 • Fedora (by Alvaro on 2024-04-29 16:02:31 GMT from Italy)
@14 For servers I wouldn't use Fedora, however for a desktop PC it is still a valid option today: the restart request after a system update is not a problem on the desktop and serves to guarantee the stability of the operating system.
23 • Fedora 40 KDE spin and RAM usage (by Alovaro on 2024-04-29 16:10:42 GMT from Italy)
@4 With a single active process (lxtask) 1153 Megabytes of RAM used does not seem excessive to me for a desktop like KDE Plasma. A consumption similar to that of Kubuntu for example.
24 • Fedora is supported for over 12 months (by Alvaro on 2024-04-29 16:21:00 GMT from Italy)
@8 "A 6-month life for each release seems nuts to me." The supported life of every Fedora version is over 12 months, you are not obliged to upgrade every 6 months.
"Nobody in their right mind would want a server you have to upgrade every 6 months." For server you should use RHEL or Rocky.
25 • Fedora (by Otis on 2024-04-29 16:28:57 GMT from United States)
@13 and others. With apologies I respectfully submit that Nobara has resolved those and many more issues with Fedora. https://nobaraproject.org/
That'll be my last post promoting Nobara, as the antiquated term, "fanboi" has emerged in my sensibilities.
26 • Fedora manual partitioning (by Alvaro on 2024-04-29 16:36:52 GMT from Italy)
@Jesse "Manual partitioning with Fedora is a bit of a mess of options and unclear screens compared to using the Ubiquity or Calamares installers."
I have always used custom partitioning (manual partitioning) with EXT4. I don't notice any major complications: a "/boot/efi" partition of 600 megabytes, a "/boot" of 1024 megabytes, a "/" of 70 GB and a "/home" in the remaining space (all automatically preset). A click on the button at the top left and you're done.
27 • Re: Floating panel (by Flavianoep on 2024-04-29 17:28:56 GMT from Brazil)
The main reason for the floating panel on Plasma 6 is to distinguish Plasma from Windows 10 or 11. That and the round corners on windows. Some people come to Plasma after having contact with Windows 10 and think that Plasma copied the look of it, and not the other way around. Windows 10 came a year after Plasma 5 with its Breeze theme, and it is more likely that Microsoft copied the look, but not the feel, of Plasma.
28 • Discover software updates (by eco2geek on 2024-04-29 17:43:02 GMT from United States)
@11: It turns out that there's a System Settings option (in System > Software Update) to set Discover to "apply system updates" either "after rebooting, recommended to maximize system stability" (the default) or "immediately" (text is from System Settings). This is for Discover 6.0.4. (I didn't know that!)
@12: "DNF" is actually a warning that stands for "Do Not Fedora". :-) :-)
Seriously, I downloaded and ran their KDE spin from live media and it felt pretty solid.
I don't use Fedora but thought they had a way to upgrade from one version to the next (that they actually refer to as "FedUp"). Googling it brings up their documentation. Has anybody tried it?
29 • Fedora: dnf system upgrade (by Jeff on 2024-04-29 18:40:32 GMT from Italy)
@28 FedUp (FEDora UPgrader) was the official upgrade tool between Fedora releases, now abandoned with the introduction of the 'DNF System Upgrade' plugin.
docs . fedoraproject . org / en-US / quick-docs / upgrading-fedora-offline /
30 • Fedora 39: dist-upgrade via Discover (by Alessio on 2024-04-29 18:50:00 GMT from Italy)
In Fedora 39 there is the possibility to do a "dist-upgrade" to F40 via Discover. Slow procedure that requires a reboot at the end.
31 • Official Workstation(s) (by Novid on 2024-04-29 20:28:30 GMT from Iran)
Why not both GNOME and KDE?
32 • Default DE (by 2³bit on 2024-04-29 22:46:09 GMT from United States)
An unofficial DE popularity survey. Xfce for me.
33 • it is raining distros (by concrete umbrella on 2024-04-29 20:32:19 GMT from New Zealand)
April showers? Distros, and more distros. Ubuntu LTS 24.04, new KDE, new LXQt, new Gnome, a new Fedora and a mini horde of Ubuntu clones and downstreams. This is an exciting time, but a point to also take a hard look at where priorities are going.
Just some Yes/No situations, no wrangling about this complex workaround, or.. blah, blah.
KDE - can you set your clock to 24-hr if your locale (surrounding idiots, I mean society/govt) are on the 12-hr am/pm thing.
Also noted, the problem when you add K-anything, it drags half the KDE system backend toolset in. I only wanted Kid for editing mp3 data, where did mariadb and Kwallet... - what?
Gnome - Two panel mode in File? I use this all the time. Thunar which did not have this for many years, has this feature now - why... because people USE it.
Otherwise Gnome 46 looks polished and all round and round corners, lots of whitespace - like a 12yo on my screen. The jury is still out for me regarding Gnome, I prefer the 'traditional' desktop. MS and Apple spent millions (way back when money still had value) on labs to refine the UI.
Those two are the tip of a massive usability iceberg.
All distros - please localize not only language 'support' but the fonts. Especially please, pretty please with candy, please dump that Noto monstrosity. Some of us work with text and documents and fonts (design & layout) and want 20 relevant fonts, not 200 useless ones. A handful of distros get it right, but fail in other areas to be a daily production driver.
My 2c has unloaded, thank you.
34 • Fedora (by ThomasAnderson on 2024-04-30 01:33:50 GMT from Australia)
Fedora receives a lot of warranted criticism, however rather than taking this oboard constructively and fixing usability problems, from their installer to repositories to xyz... they seem to double down, in the same way that Gnome dev team doubles down and completely disregards the users complaints about their horrible UI workflow.
Fedora better wiseup. Thanks to the massive choice of distros, just because Fedora was popular and relevant doesn't mean it will stay that way.
35 • @20 Syanptic: (by dragonmouth on 2024-04-30 11:22:06 GMT from United States)
"Synaptic you risk making the system unstable due to cross-dependency problems" Only if you do not read the messages Synaptic displays.
That is why I like Synaptic over any other software manager. If there are any possible cross-dependency, Synaptic will display all the packages affected and ask you if you want to proceed. If you do not wish to uninstall the cross-dependencies, you can CANCEL the action.
In close to 20 years of using it, Synaptic has not hiccuped even once.
36 • Attack surface reduction (by dob on 2024-04-30 12:23:49 GMT from United Kingdom)
Anybody out there know…
Which processor-architectures, operating system distributions / kernels configuration types afford the best defence against side channel attacks on RAM (rowhammer / leaking cache).
Suspect it will be a containerised, minimalist desktop less, systemd-free rolling release with reputation for rapidly patching Speculative execution processing vulnerabilities.
Any thoughts… OpenBSD? RancherOS? VoidLinux?
37 • Fedora (by Robert on 2024-04-30 16:09:14 GMT from United States)
Fedora should have went with Plasma instead of Gnome from the start. Just a better fit from stated mission objectives.
But that's been years, the ship has sailed. So Fedora should probably just stick with Gnome. Or like others said, just have a proper desktop selection in the installer, best of all worlds.
@34 - I don't use Fedora, but aren't they working on a new system installer?
38 • plasma rules (by plasmapenguin on 2024-04-30 18:12:12 GMT from Croatia)
kde plasma in clear lead, gnomes on life support
39 • Fedora 40 KDE (by Commodore Pet on 2024-04-30 19:02:46 GMT from Canada)
I am not sure why there is so much dislike of Fedora. I used to just distro hop, but after trying Fedora, I have been using it as my main driver now for several years. It was easy to setup (other than the partition manager) and any issues I had were easily resolved with a quick search. I decided to perform a clean install of version 40 and also switched from gnome to KDE and am quite enjoying it. I have not encountered any issues and Fedora does everything I want and need from an OS. I still distro hop using a dual boot setup just for fun but I always find Fedora is the easiest and most reliable OS I have tried and it has never let me down. If I need something done right, I use Fedora.
40 • Fedora and RAM (by MattE on 2024-04-30 20:44:41 GMT from United States)
Linux users obsess too much about RAM consumption. It’s almost like the T-shirt I really love and don’t want to wear it out. If you got it, let the OS use it. My Fedora 40 Gnome is snappy and polished. What is one way a distro can be snappy? It makes use of the RAM available.
BTW: The installer was logical and made sense (other than Btrfs being default).
41 • Attack surface reduction (by ThomasAnderson on 2024-04-30 22:25:03 GMT from Australia)
@36 - Which processor-architectures
Arm Cortex-A55 A55 is not the only CPU immune to Spectre and Meltdown however it probably is the fasted with a clock speed of 2Ghz. You can find this on a board like the ROCK 3B from Raxda. 8Gb ram model available.
- Which operating system distributions / kernels configuration types afford the best defence against side channel attacks on RAM (rowhammer / leaking cache).
FreeBSD/OpenBSD is probably your best choise. It has hardening options available during the install process which you can enable for extra security, such as hidding processes, randomize PID etc
Gentoo is a good choice for Linux Customize the kernel on installation and hardened kernel available and no systemd
All Linux kernels have software patches in place to mitigate Spectre and Meltdown
As for containers, not sure that would help for memory attacks. In terms of privacy yes, as this is what Whonix and Cubes implement.
42 • @39 (by Ed on 2024-04-30 22:34:13 GMT from Sweden)
I agree. Fedora Xrce is very reliable.
43 • Secure RAM from ‘bit flipping’ : is Optical RAM the solution? (by dob on 2024-05-01 08:15:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
If O-RAM can mitigate rowhammer ‘bit-flipping’ could it still be susceptible to targeted wear (similar to ‘dead pixel’ / ‘image rentention’)? As with NVRAM, I’d expect some degree of over-provisioning / wear-levelling triple-channel ECC design may be necessary to monitor/maintain O-RAM integrity.
An equivalent optical replacement may be needed for cache (used in cpu, gpu, mainboard, & devices / physical keyboard buffer).
44 • 24 H setting and Kwallet (by artytux on 2024-05-01 10:43:11 GMT from Australia)
@33 concrete umbrella
24 hour clock setting , I use that always (decades) goto the clock right click on configure digital clock setting.
Kwallet is part of KDE by default removing it not recommended, that is a huge No-No , that will brick your KDE, just turn it to off in sys settings.
45 • 43 memory attacks bit flipping (by ThomasAnderson on 2024-05-01 20:57:28 GMT from Australia)
Optical RAM? This is pure research at the moment and completely irrelevant as it doesn't exist.
Real world mitigations are available; modern DDR4 memory chips equipped with ECC. However even memory with ECC and TRR protections are vulnerable to Rowpress attacks.
Best mitigation strategy; physically secure your computer so that nobody else can tamper with it and use encryption so that only you can access the contents of your drive.
46 • Fedora40, monitor scaling (by Jan on 2024-05-01 21:44:46 GMT from The Netherlands)
I tried Fedora40 using a old notebook (P8400+8GB+SSD) with a defect screen, connected to a 24"WS monitor. This notebook has no video card, the video-work is handled by the processor.
The problem is that on the external monitor the icons and fonts are dispayed too small for me. In Windows I handle this by setting the monitor to 125%, and setting the browsers to 110% or 125%, and using the extension Zoom Page WE. However in (Linux) Fedora only 100% and 200% are available, so too small or ridiculous big. And in Firefox for Linux, increasing the zoom does nothing.
I found a nice solution by setting the monitor resolution from the standard highest, to 2 lower resolution fugures. I reached by this way in Linux a more or less 125% icon/font size, faily perfect. A supprize was that with the old notebook/CPU, Linux/browser behaved snappier. Which is of course logical because the CPU has less video-pixel-work to do. And the text seemed to show less flimsy (for my eyes).
I tried this also with Windows. With an old desktop with a video card, I did not really see a snappier behaviour. I did see less flimsy text fonts.
Has anyone more experience (pro or con) w.r.t. this monitor-resolution-decrease-trick (Linux/Win behaviour-speed, thicker fonts, unsharp fonts) ?
47 • @39 (by Rock solid on 2024-05-01 21:48:06 GMT from United States)
You have to take all this with a grain of salt. Distrowatch very much pushes Ubuntu or at least .deb distros or perhaps rolling releases. They do not generally cover the various Fedora Spins for example. Most of the testers who write reviews, including Jessis's current review, are not familiar with installing, running, configuring, or testing fedora. Testing Fedora in VirtualBox, really? That is akin to trying to install Fedora on a toaster, Fedora is not designed to run on Virtualbox.
Any testing really should be done on bare metal with compatible hardware.
A lot of hate for Fedora comes from outright misinformation, anti-corporation, anti systemd, etc
There is also a ton of outright disrespect for decisions made by developers from people who know nothing about coding, do not contribute code or testing, and demand their pet features.
And then there is the outright misinformation posted here about Fedora (such as each release is supported for at least 13 months, not 6). Can't even begin to address all the misinformation on this site.
I emailed Jessie about these issues years ago, and suggested he post the fedora spins same as he does with Ubuntu and you can clearly see not only does he not post the fedora spins, I am guessing he does not know what options are available.
If you are interested in Fedora, I suggest you obtain your information from more reliable sources.
The advantages of fedora are:
1. You are on the cutting edge of the future of Linux. Fedora is the defacto test bed for new features (as opposed to Arch where they dump the newest package from upstream with little or no testing). Fedora was the first distro to use Wayland by default, systemd, pipewire, etc as opposed to a long list of failed projects ubuntu pushes or the complete lack of looking to the future by some distributions and desktop environments. The fact of the matter is Ubuntu, mint, debian, all these distros are years behind Fedora.
2. The Fedora project does not simply package new features, the fedora developers make significant contributions to upstream from the kernel to wayland (and xorg), etc.
3. Security - Funny how they never mention selinux, see my main point, most people here on distrowatch could care less about security and they do not understand selinux.
4. DNF has many advanced features and options simply not available on other package managers. Everyone complains it is slow, but they do not use or understand what dnf will do. For example, you can relable all your system files (ownership, permissions, and selinux) without a complete system reinstallation.
I personally have been running Fedora for many many years and have never had any problems with upgrades, they go very smooth.
Personally I do not see any appeal to installing RHEL or Ubuntu stable or Debian Stable for 10+ years, yuck, just yuck. If you do not like the current fedora release because of bugs or unpolished features, wait 6 months for Fedora +1, lol.
48 • Fedora (by Jesse on 2024-05-01 21:59:43 GMT from Canada)
@47: " Distrowatch very much pushes Ubuntu or at least .deb distros or perhaps rolling releases."
We don't. In fact, if you read my reviews, you'll note that I'm generally not a fan of rolling releases.
"They do not generally cover the various Fedora Spins for example. Most of the testers who write reviews, including Jessis's current review, are not familiar with installing, running, configuring, or testing fedora. "
I've installed and used almost every version of Fedora since it got started 20 years ago. We used to run Fedora and RHEL in our office. Suggestion I'm not familiar with it is pure foolishness.
"Any testing really should be done on bare metal with compatible hardware."
It was. Did you read the review. I tested Fedora in both bare metal and virtual environments. Both the GNOME/Workstation and the KDE Plasma spin.
"There is also a ton of outright disrespect for decisions made by developers from people who know nothing about coding, do not contribute code or testing, and demand their pet features."
Are you talking about me or other reviews here? I'm a software developer.
"And then there is the outright misinformation posted here about Fedora (such as each release is supported for at least 13 months, not 6). Can't even begin to address all the misinformation on this site."
I assume you're talking about people referring to the release cycle, which is six months? No one here is claiming Fedora's support cycle is six months, just its release cycle.
"suggested he post the fedora spins same as he does with Ubuntu and you can clearly see not only does he not post the fedora spins, I am guessing he does not know what options are available."
Please see our FAQ page on why Fedora spins are not published to the front page. https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=faq
As for not knowing what options are available, do you realize I reviewed the KDE Plasma spin? How would I do that if I wasn't aware Fedora spins exist? This makes no sense.
""Funny how they never mention selinux, see my main point, most people here on distrowatch could care less about security and they do not understand selinux."
We care a lot about security. And I'm well aware of SELinux. I think it's a bad implementation of a good idea and much prefer AppArmor and sandboxing tools.
49 • Mistaken post# reference link / Dislike of Fedora (by Otis on 2024-05-01 22:36:01 GMT from United States)
@48 the link is to post # 37 but the reference is to @47 where "Distrowatch very much pushes Ubuntu or at least .deb distros or perhaps rolling releases," and other quotes etc..
@39 I dislike what is wrecked, even though popular because of its position (earned) in the Linux Universe. Those guys/gals are serious distro devs and continue to get huge page hits here at DW and elsewhere. I call it "wrecked" because of many things, not the least of which are outlined very clearly in Jesse's review of 40 this week; Fedora honestly does behave as if it's a great set of features etc but not as one nice cohesive unit/distro. It's like 50 people producing input but not talking much to one another.
Nobara on the other hand... oh, I said that earlier.
50 • Fedora, Nobara, love and hate (by Mr. Moto on 2024-05-02 03:55:19 GMT from Philippines)
@47, "Fedora is not designed to run on Virtualbox." It runs fine on VBox for me. See my post @5. I have little or no interest in most of the distros reviewed here, but that's a lot of distros, and I'm only interested in a few. Their website, their choices, but still an excellent source for information, including Fedora.
@49 "wrecked" I have both Gnome and KDE versions installed on VMs and I don't see what is "wrecked". Some of Jesse's problems were caused by VBox, not Fedora. I did install Fedora KDE on VBox to try after reading the review, but normally I use KVM with Virt-Manager.
"Nobara on the other hand" Ok, you got me to try it. I prefer Calamares to Anaconda. After that: Sorry, but I don't see it. I'm on an Intel NUC, i3, 16 GB RAM. Never, ever hear the fan. Nobara Gnome was the exception. Noisy and hot during installation, using most of the CPU and lots of RAM. After install it was slow and still using a high % of CPU, RAM around 2.5 GB. Fedora was a much better experience, and I get nothing extra from Nobara that I need or want. Perhaps for your use there are advantages, but I'll pass.
Full disclosure: On bare metal I usually rung Debian or Ubuntu. Right now I have Ubuntu 24.04 and KDE neon 22.04. Both satisfy all my needs. Will be adding KALI in a few days for other purposes..
51 • O-RAM R&D progress (by dob on 2024-05-02 08:41:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
See 2023 publications https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Christos-Vagionas
(just one of many University of Aristotle researchers working in the optical ICT field.)
52 • O-RAM Potential pitfall (stealth side channel use) (by dob on 2024-05-02 08:56:09 GMT from United Kingdom)
Risk posed by Out of ‘band’ use for covert (possibly multiplexed) signalling /altered timing attacks.
53 • Fedora/Nobara (by Otis on 2024-05-02 11:03:05 GMT from United States)
@50 Mr. Moto, I admit to shying away from Gnome long since, so I can't comment about it on any distro these days. The fan issue was not my problem with it, but it seems to be yours. As to no fan issue for you running Fedora, enjoy! As to any such thing on Nobara on my Acer Nitro 5 AN 517-55 with basic gaming hardware, cool as a cucumber running Nobara but not at all cool running Windows 11 which I happily removed.
Fedora, in my experience, is a patchwork of cutting edge tech in the Linux world. Patchwork. Not honed for my needs, and there are many many such distros out there which are ready to go out of the box and I've had them all over the years. Nobara wins when it comes to "ready," in my opinion/experience.
54 • Fedora and other nonsense (by Don't make me laugh on 2024-05-02 11:23:13 GMT from Australia)
@47 It's hard to know where to start with the nonsense you have spouted but before you comment maybe you should read Jesse's last review of Ubuntu - "It's a platform I would recommend avoiding". Doesn't sound like pushing Ubuntu to me... I personally can't stand Fedora, the philosophy behind it or Gnome and wouldn't touch either with a barge pole. Nothing to do with corporations just software I can't use. The one time I did try Fedora on bare metal it was mind-bogglingly slow, both to boot and to run (and DNF was even slower). I don't use Ubuntu either but when I have tried it I found it ran rings around Fedora on my equipment. However you seem to like Fedora so good for you. Jesse rebutted the rest of your nonsense pretty well, so nothing further for me to add.
55 • Desktop (by James on 2024-05-02 11:39:27 GMT from United States)
If you add up the traditional desktops, the traditional desktops still rule.
56 • Fedora/Nobara (by Mr. Moto on 2024-05-02 12:15:51 GMT from Philippines)
@53, "As to no fan issue for you running Fedora, enjoy!" Try reading again. I use Ubuntu and Debian. I test Fedora, along with quite a few others, on VMs. I stopped testing on bare metal a few years ago. I use Gnome and KDE as desktops, lately with a preference for Gnome since Latte Dock was abandoned. I like docks, and Gnome can be run on Wayland with a dock with some light configuration.
I'm glad you get such great performance from your Nobara install. Enjoy! However here is what the Nobara developers themselves have to say: "The Nobara Project, to put it simply, is a modified version of Fedora Linux with user-friendly fixes added to it. Fedora is a very good workstation OS, however, anything involving any kind of 3rd party or proprietary packages is usually absent from a fresh install." It's still Fedora, only with a few things added. I had some issues with the one I downloaded, and I did not find their additions useful for me, and didn't see a need to download the KDE version.
57 • Fedora’s role is valuable (by dob on 2024-05-02 12:47:13 GMT from United Kingdom)
Love it or hate it, we’d all do better to focus on the positives.
Rapid application development requires a willing and able community of bug testers for experimental features
- the kernel is not much different.
We all benefit from reports early adopters raise when testing bleeding edge stuff (they suffer, so the rest don’t have to).
Without the feedback, far more distros would be forced to be of ‘beta’ quality i.e. testing/unstable.
We should thank the Fedora’s sharks:
- our legacy and alternative system components learn to swim faster (or drown) each time they rock the boat ;-)
58 • Fedora (by ThomasAnderson on 2024-05-02 23:16:47 GMT from Australia)
@57 >> Love it or hate it, we’d all do better to focus on the positives
That was the issue in the 2007-2008 financial crisis; nobody wanted to deal with reality of the situation, instead positivism in the industry was encouraged and valid criticisms or the irresponsible lending practices and dangers ignored and everyone hoped it would just go away.
We shouldn't stick our heads in the sand and ignore the glaring issues with a distribution and just stay positive; how will shortcomings and problems ever be rectified if a community is too scared of facing reality?
The reality is that Fedora has problems and being positive won't magically make those problems go away. Thoughtful constructive feedback about technical issues and concerns need to be addressed, not swept under the carpet.
Issues with Fedora (not complete by any means): ----------------------------------------------- Hardware Compatibility: Fedora may not always have the same level of hardware compatibility as more mainstream distributions like Ubuntu. Users might encounter difficulties getting certain hardware components to work properly without additional configuration.
Software Availability: While Fedora provides a wide range of software through its repositories, some proprietary software or niche applications may not be readily available. Users may need to resort to third-party repositories or manual installation methods to access certain software.
Updates and Stability: Fedora follows a rapid release cycle, with new versions released approximately every six months. While this provides users with access to the latest features and improvements, it can also lead to occasional stability issues or incompatibilities, especially with third-party software. Also for users who want the latest experience with the latest Gnome desktop, upgrading their system or reinstalling from scratch every 6 months is a stressful experience. There is always a possibility of the upgrade failing.
Enterprise Support: Fedora is primarily focused on providing bleeding-edge features and technologies, making it less suitable for enterprise environments that prioritize stability and long-term support. Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL), which is based on Fedora, is better suited for such use cases.
Systemd issues: The first Linux distribution to implement Systemd as its default init system was Fedora. Fedora made Systemd the default init system starting with Fedora 15, which was released in May 2011. It was not an option, it was forced on users, nor was there an alternative to switch back to SysVinit. Other distributions quickly followed however the Linux community criticized Systemd for its perceived complexity and departure from the Unix philosophy of simplicity and modularity as well as the fact that systemd tightly integrates with other parts of the Linux system, such as udev, dbus, and the kernel which make it harder to replace or modify individual components, potentially leading to vendor lock-in and reduced interoperability. We can see this in the fact that Gnome is dependent of systemd as well and more applications require systemd to function.
UEFI support: Fedora dropping BIOS support means that the users who still rely on older hardware that only supports BIOS cannot use Fedora. By dropping BIOS support, Fedora may alienate users with older systems who are unable or unwilling to upgrade to newer hardware that supports UEFI. Fedora has a history of forcing change on users which users did not ask for; Systemd and now UEFI only boot.
59 • Fedora /UEFI (by Titus Groan on 2024-05-03 04:44:05 GMT from New Zealand)
Given that UEFI has been available since approx 2006, that older hardware that Fedora has dropped legacy support for is unlikely to run Gnome their "flagship" desktop environment. It may run KDE Plasma at a pinch. XFCE, MATE and the others are better contenders. In saying that, it takes developer time and resources to maintain any package, so it appears that the Fedora project is making decisions to benefit from their developers time / energy.
If a developer does not wish to maintain a package, would you want to force them to?
60 • @58 you’ve no quarrel with me (by dob on 2024-05-03 13:06:40 GMT from United Kingdom)
tin foil hat time…
systemd weaknesses are partially deliberate (Easy command control access for state-surveillance)
But I have no illusions, pretty much all core. hardware and software has been similarly knobbled (minix et al.)
We have come to expect (/ have no option but to accept) built-in capability for state surveillance.
What is unacceptable to me, is how the snoop capability has been so badly implemented to be exploitable by organised criminals / unfriendly states.
Think about it, if the CIA can’t effectively secure their own systems - what hope is there for the rest of us?
61 • Fedora (by ThomasAnderson on 2024-05-03 23:37:11 GMT from Australia)
>>tin foil hat time…
There is an inherent weakness in creating an "init" replacement for SysVinit, that aims to be more of an operating system than an init, with millions of lines of code, dozens of modules taking over system services, managing resources, logging, network, replacing home directory with systemd-homed and now a sudo replacement(run0) ... doing too many things which are not the job of an init system, introduces attack surfaces and bugs.
1.3 million lines of code, a huge number of libraries and utilities.
This goes against the Unix philosophy of, "Small is beautiful. Make each program do one thing well." Lennart cares not for these old fashioned ways of thinking, nor for POSIX.
When was the last time the entire code base of systemd was audited? Has it ever been audited?
Is there now existing a conflict of interest that Lennart now works for the behemouth Microsoft?
Just a side note for tin foil trivia night; Microsoft was working with the NSA Prism surveillance network. Microsoft created a special way for the NSA to get around the encryption in Microsoft’s latest version of Outlook.
If systemd is not faster than SysVinit, and non-systemd distros such as Devuan, Artix, Gentoo etc can all run Linux without problems, why then do we need systemd?
Number of Comments: 61
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