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1 • Re: Plasma 6 (by eco2geek on 2024-04-29 01:00:22 GMT from United States)
Fedora's KDE Spin isn't the only one where, if you update the system using Discover, it'll download the updates and then tell you to reboot the system, then install the updates while it's rebooting. KDE neon does the same thing. So it looks like this is a feature, not a bug. It is annoying, so I usually use "pkcon" from the command line (which KDE neon recommends over the "apt" command. pkcon evidently uses the PackageKit back end that Discover uses only via the CLI.)
As to that floating bottom panel, it should settle to the bottom of the screen when you maximize an application window, then float up again once the application's no longer maximized.
When I updated KDE neon to Plasma 6, there were lots of graphical glitches, most involving the bottom panel displaying black text on a black background. For example, the calendar widget's normally white text was black so it was unreadable. I don't know if this is the "real" solution or not, but I went into Synaptic and saw a lot of Plasma 5 apps and libraries that were no longer installed, but still had residual configuration files on the disk. Once I removed all of those that I could find, the graphical glitches mostly disappeared. (Don't quote me on that as a solution. Maybe it was an updated package, as updates were coming in thick and fast -- and still are.)
2 • Fedora desktop default and stuff (by ThomasAnderson on 2024-04-29 01:05:59 GMT from Australia)
The ideal solution would be to give the user the choice during installation just like EndeavourOS and OpenSuse. The install image would have all the necessary desktop packages available which would negate downloading during installation.
Fedora Memory Hog
This is surprising too considering that KDE distros are always lean usually hovering around the 700mb mark for memory utilization on boot.
KDE PIM is a package that contains personal information management tools. One user wrote "The problem is when I install packages from the kdepim group, for example Kmail, Korganizer, Kaddressbook, which I need in order to synchronize my CalDAV and CardDAV services: they pull the mariadb dependency and start a lot of processes from the akonadi group. While this is not a problem on my main laptop, it is on the low end one: 900MB-1GB ram usage on startup"
Perhaps this is the reason for the high memory usage in the KDE spin. Would need to see what apps are installed by default.
3 • Kubuntu Minimal (by tuxuntu on 2024-04-29 01:26:01 GMT from United States)
Kubuntu Minimal doesn't have web browser or snapd either. Xubuntu Minimal does, haven't tested the others.
4 • KDE Plasma as a choice of desktop. (by Bobbie Sellers on 2024-04-29 05:21:05 GMT from United States)
I have been using KDE in its updated versions for about 18 years.
I think it must be a problem with the way the DE is setup for Fedora
that it takes 2 GB of memory.
One thing that few non-users of KDE understand and even some
users is that it can be configured in a number of different ways
resembling nearly all the listed Desktop Environments I have
seen so far. Before Covid restrictions went into place I used
to download and try out most new versions released so I
have some experience with non-KDE systems. When our
packager is satisfied as to the reliability of Plasma 6 we
will get it on PCLinuxOS.
bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2024.04- Linux 6.6.28-pclos1- KDE Plasma 5.27.11
5 • Fedora VBox, boot and resolution (by Mr. Moto on 2024-04-29 05:37:07 GMT from Philippines)
I downloaded Fedora KDE using the DW provided torrent. Installing on VBox, the Live ISO would not boot properly, but rather than change to safe graphics, I changed the VBox graphics settings to VBoxSVGA. Then it booted with no problem. The resolution was set at 800x600, but could be changed using the desktop context menu. Changed to 1920x1080, which is my normal desktop screen resolution. Installed with no glitches and adjusted resolution automatically once rebooted.
In fairness to Fedora, this has been a problem for me with VBox with quite a few distros. Either the resolution won't adjust, will revert if changed or will fail to boot with the default VMSVGA graphics settings. This, along with other glitches has led me to use KVM with Virt-Manager for my virtual machines.
6 • Fedora (by borgio3 on 2024-04-29 06:57:51 GMT from Italy)
The only to use Fedora is don't use it.
7 • Fedora (by borgio3 on 2024-04-29 06:59:04 GMT from Italy)
The only way to use Fedora is don't use it.
Sorry
8 • Fedora (by Mr B on 2024-04-29 08:03:50 GMT from United Kingdom)
@6/7
I've never understood the appeal or point of Fedora at all, although I have tried it once or twice. Since Red Hat 're-positioned' CentOS to be on the development side of the distro lifecycle, Fedora seems to be fairly redundant. Added to that, a 6-month life for each release seems nuts to me. Nobody in their right mind would want a server you have to upgrade every 6 months.
9 • Fedora (by Patrick on 2024-04-29 08:05:17 GMT from Luxembourg)
I have been wanting to like Fedora, given it many tries, especially the KDE and XFCE version. It has always given me these "half-backed" vibes. It may be OK for developers, for the technically inclined, but hailing Fedora as the "best desktop distro" is just wrong. I've always gone back to Linux Mint, or plain Debian on arm64.
10 • Best security ever [- not] (by dob on 2024-04-29 08:22:41 GMT from United Kingdom)
Is this just Ubuntu’s latest ‘Vista’ ?
security theatre masking protection racketeering.
Until there is a security-focussed approach towards system design, build and use: expect to see more ‘Jenga’ software stacks, and ‘responsible disclosures’ of system vulnerabilities.
11 • install updates during boot (by peer on 2024-04-29 08:57:09 GMT from The Netherlands)
#1: I use discover for updates in debian. The updates are installed directly. I do not have to reboot most of the time. And updates are not installed during boot.
I do not know why discove in fedora works this way
12 • The only good thing about fedora ... (by myname on 2024-04-29 11:19:24 GMT from Germany)
... is that they ironically named their package manager DNF ("did not finish")!
13 • @9 & Fedroa (by kc1di on 2024-04-29 11:58:32 GMT from United States)
I with @9 I've been trying hard to like Fedora. But in the end always install a different Distro. Most of the time it's Mint. Fedora leaves me feeling like it's undone , not finished.
And I have a dislike for dnf also. As far as which Desktop should be default I picked Plasma/kde But I'm with others who say the choice should be at the time of install like SuSE or Debian.
14 • Fedora 40 (by Richard Palmer on 2024-04-29 13:04:40 GMT from France)
I have to agree with Borgio3. I was momentarily seduced by the shiny new Fedora, but very disappointed, the final nail in the coffin being ...reboot to update, "please don't shut down your computer..."
It's going the way of Windows!
15 • New Fedora and other Gnomes (by John on 2024-04-29 14:27:05 GMT from Canada)
First - @12 - hahahahahaha, I always thought the same thing :-)
However, I have noticed a big problem with the latest round of releases and Gnome 46. Trying various distros on my laptop (i7, 16GB RAM, 1TB NVME SSD and optimus graphics - Intel+Nvidia MX150)
- Fedora won't even boot! Hangs on GDM every time.
- Endeavour OS had huge resource usage (CPU threads very busy - never settled down)
- Ubuntu - I got it to boot and be useful, but again high CPU usage, and a very silly bug - every time I tried to change mouse cursor to Redglass (I like that one) - the whole desktop would crash. Even after reboot - as soon as I'd log in, crash.
16 • Fedora 40 KDE Spin (by Alvaro on 2024-04-29 15:37:26 GMT from Italy)
Between the 'final freeze' on April 2nd and the final release on April 23rd there are only 21 days of testing. Few to guarantee sufficient stability (especially with Plasma 6 on board). The problem is to lengthen the testing time: 4 months of development, 1 month of Alpha, 1 month of Beta and - at the end of the Beta month - there should be the final release. With 2 months of 'bug testing' things would improve a lot.
17 • Fedora (by David on 2024-04-29 15:39:15 GMT from United Kingdom)
The first distro I used was Red Hat. The first I installed by myself was Fedora 1. I abandoned Fedora in 2010 for exactly the lack of stability and polish mentioned in the review, although the last straw was Gnome 3, and I sought refuge with CentOS until Red Hat wrecked that One can understand RH prioritising their paying customers, but that can't excuse the way that they expect other users to act as guinea pigs.
18 • RAM at idle / Restart for software updates. (by Antony on 2024-04-29 15:42:02 GMT from United Kingdom)
My idle RAM usage (via htop):
fedora 40 / Gnome approx 1GB
Ubuntu 24.04 / Gnome approx 900 Mb
MX Linux / Kde approx 800Mb
I am using nvidia drivers, which from memory always seem to contribute a couple of hundred Mb.
MX Linux uses Discover, but does not require restart for software updates.
I think Gnome looks nice, but I think KDE/Plasma is easier to just get on and get things done.
I normally use either opensuse (Tumbleweed) or Mageia (with both running KDE), but have lately been trying out MX Linux which seems quite nice (I liked Mepis when it first came out btw). Not having to have systemd is also good.
19 • Fedora KDE Plasma (by KnowHow on 2024-04-29 15:43:38 GMT from United States)
The best way to install Fedora KDE Plasma: use the Fedora-Everything Iso, then pick your DE! Not only can you select the DE, but you also can cherry-pick your preinstalled software packages - just like in the OpenSuse installer.
I wish the Fedora Everything installer would be the default. That way, everyone could be happy.
20 • DNF and Dnfdragora (by Alvaro on 2024-04-29 15:53:48 GMT from Italy)
@12
DNF/Dnfdragora is slow, but it is actually better and more secure than APT/Synaptic: when you try to uninstall a program with Synaptic you risk making the system unstable due to cross-dependency problems, while the same operation with Dnfdragora is painless. DNF/Dnfdragora is always preferable to Discover which I don't trust much.
21 • @19 (by Antony on 2024-04-29 15:55:20 GMT from United Kingdom)
Yes, as per opensuse (and Mageia) installers - choice of DE and even package groups is a nice option.
22 • Fedora (by Alvaro on 2024-04-29 16:02:31 GMT from Italy)
@14
For servers I wouldn't use Fedora, however for a desktop PC it is still a valid option today: the restart request after a system update is not a problem on the desktop and serves to guarantee the stability of the operating system.
23 • Fedora 40 KDE spin and RAM usage (by Alovaro on 2024-04-29 16:10:42 GMT from Italy)
@4
With a single active process (lxtask) 1153 Megabytes of RAM used does not seem excessive to me for a desktop like KDE Plasma. A consumption similar to that of Kubuntu for example.
24 • Fedora is supported for over 12 months (by Alvaro on 2024-04-29 16:21:00 GMT from Italy)
@8
"A 6-month life for each release seems nuts to me."
The supported life of every Fedora version is over 12 months, you are not obliged to upgrade every 6 months.
"Nobody in their right mind would want a server you have to upgrade every 6 months."
For server you should use RHEL or Rocky.
25 • Fedora (by Otis on 2024-04-29 16:28:57 GMT from United States)
@13 and others. With apologies I respectfully submit that Nobara has resolved those and many more issues with Fedora. https://nobaraproject.org/
That'll be my last post promoting Nobara, as the antiquated term, "fanboi" has emerged in my sensibilities.
26 • Fedora manual partitioning (by Alvaro on 2024-04-29 16:36:52 GMT from Italy)
@Jesse
"Manual partitioning with Fedora is a bit of a mess of options and unclear screens compared to using the Ubiquity or Calamares installers."
I have always used custom partitioning (manual partitioning) with EXT4. I don't notice any major complications: a "/boot/efi" partition of 600 megabytes, a "/boot" of 1024 megabytes, a "/" of 70 GB and a "/home" in the remaining space (all automatically preset). A click on the button at the top left and you're done.
27 • Re: Floating panel (by Flavianoep on 2024-04-29 17:28:56 GMT from Brazil)
The main reason for the floating panel on Plasma 6 is to distinguish Plasma from Windows 10 or 11. That and the round corners on windows. Some people come to Plasma after having contact with Windows 10 and think that Plasma copied the look of it, and not the other way around. Windows 10 came a year after Plasma 5 with its Breeze theme, and it is more likely that Microsoft copied the look, but not the feel, of Plasma.
28 • Discover software updates (by eco2geek on 2024-04-29 17:43:02 GMT from United States)
@11: It turns out that there's a System Settings option (in System > Software Update) to set Discover to "apply system updates" either "after rebooting, recommended to maximize system stability" (the default) or "immediately" (text is from System Settings). This is for Discover 6.0.4. (I didn't know that!)
@12: "DNF" is actually a warning that stands for "Do Not Fedora". :-) :-)
Seriously, I downloaded and ran their KDE spin from live media and it felt pretty solid.
I don't use Fedora but thought they had a way to upgrade from one version to the next (that they actually refer to as "FedUp"). Googling it brings up their documentation. Has anybody tried it?
29 • Fedora: dnf system upgrade (by Jeff on 2024-04-29 18:40:32 GMT from Italy)
@28
FedUp (FEDora UPgrader) was the official upgrade tool between Fedora releases, now abandoned with the introduction of the 'DNF System Upgrade' plugin.
docs . fedoraproject . org / en-US / quick-docs / upgrading-fedora-offline /
30 • Fedora 39: dist-upgrade via Discover (by Alessio on 2024-04-29 18:50:00 GMT from Italy)
In Fedora 39 there is the possibility to do a "dist-upgrade" to F40 via Discover. Slow procedure that requires a reboot at the end.
31 • Official Workstation(s) (by Novid on 2024-04-29 20:28:30 GMT from Iran)
Why not both GNOME and KDE?
32 • Default DE (by 2³bit on 2024-04-29 22:46:09 GMT from United States)
An unofficial DE popularity survey. Xfce for me.
33 • it is raining distros (by concrete umbrella on 2024-04-29 20:32:19 GMT from New Zealand)
April showers? Distros, and more distros. Ubuntu LTS 24.04, new KDE, new LXQt, new Gnome, a new Fedora and a mini horde of Ubuntu clones and downstreams. This is an exciting time, but a point to also take a hard look at where priorities are going.
Just some Yes/No situations, no wrangling about this complex workaround, or.. blah, blah.
KDE - can you set your clock to 24-hr if your locale (surrounding idiots, I mean society/govt) are on the 12-hr am/pm thing.
Also noted, the problem when you add K-anything, it drags half the KDE system backend toolset in. I only wanted Kid for editing mp3 data, where did mariadb and Kwallet... - what?
Gnome - Two panel mode in File? I use this all the time. Thunar which did not have this for many years, has this feature now - why... because people USE it.
Otherwise Gnome 46 looks polished and all round and round corners, lots of whitespace - like a 12yo on my screen. The jury is still out for me regarding Gnome, I prefer the 'traditional' desktop. MS and Apple spent millions (way back when money still had value) on labs to refine the UI.
Those two are the tip of a massive usability iceberg.
All distros - please localize not only language 'support' but the fonts. Especially please, pretty please with candy, please dump that Noto monstrosity. Some of us work with text and documents and fonts (design & layout) and want 20 relevant fonts, not 200 useless ones. A handful of distros get it right, but fail in other areas to be a daily production driver.
My 2c has unloaded, thank you.
34 • Fedora (by ThomasAnderson on 2024-04-30 01:33:50 GMT from Australia)
Fedora receives a lot of warranted criticism, however rather than taking this oboard constructively and fixing usability problems, from their installer to repositories to xyz... they seem to double down, in the same way that Gnome dev team doubles down and completely disregards the users complaints about their horrible UI workflow.
Fedora better wiseup. Thanks to the massive choice of distros, just because Fedora was popular and relevant doesn't mean it will stay that way.
35 • @20 Syanptic: (by dragonmouth on 2024-04-30 11:22:06 GMT from United States)
"Synaptic you risk making the system unstable due to cross-dependency problems"
Only if you do not read the messages Synaptic displays.
That is why I like Synaptic over any other software manager. If there are any possible cross-dependency, Synaptic will display all the packages affected and ask you if you want to proceed. If you do not wish to uninstall the cross-dependencies, you can CANCEL the action.
In close to 20 years of using it, Synaptic has not hiccuped even once.
36 • Attack surface reduction (by dob on 2024-04-30 12:23:49 GMT from United Kingdom)
Anybody out there know…
Which processor-architectures, operating system distributions / kernels configuration types afford the best defence against side channel attacks on RAM (rowhammer / leaking cache).
Suspect it will be a containerised, minimalist desktop less, systemd-free rolling release with reputation for rapidly patching Speculative execution processing vulnerabilities.
Any thoughts…
OpenBSD? RancherOS? VoidLinux?
37 • Fedora (by Robert on 2024-04-30 16:09:14 GMT from United States)
Fedora should have went with Plasma instead of Gnome from the start. Just a better fit from stated mission objectives.
But that's been years, the ship has sailed. So Fedora should probably just stick with Gnome. Or like others said, just have a proper desktop selection in the installer, best of all worlds.
@34 - I don't use Fedora, but aren't they working on a new system installer?
38 • plasma rules (by plasmapenguin on 2024-04-30 18:12:12 GMT from Croatia)
kde plasma in clear lead, gnomes on life support
39 • Fedora 40 KDE (by Commodore Pet on 2024-04-30 19:02:46 GMT from Canada)
I am not sure why there is so much dislike of Fedora. I used to just distro hop, but after trying Fedora, I have been using it as my main driver now for several years. It was easy to setup (other than the partition manager) and any issues I had were easily resolved with a quick search. I decided to perform a clean install of version 40 and also switched from gnome to KDE and am quite enjoying it. I have not encountered any issues and Fedora does everything I want and need from an OS. I still distro hop using a dual boot setup just for fun but I always find Fedora is the easiest and most reliable OS I have tried and it has never let me down. If I need something done right, I use Fedora.
40 • Fedora and RAM (by MattE on 2024-04-30 20:44:41 GMT from United States)
Linux users obsess too much about RAM consumption. It’s almost like the T-shirt I really love and don’t want to wear it out. If you got it, let the OS use it. My Fedora 40 Gnome is snappy and polished. What is one way a distro can be snappy? It makes use of the RAM available.
BTW: The installer was logical and made sense (other than Btrfs being default).
41 • Attack surface reduction (by ThomasAnderson on 2024-04-30 22:25:03 GMT from Australia)
@36
- Which processor-architectures
Arm Cortex-A55
A55 is not the only CPU immune to Spectre and Meltdown however it probably is the fasted with a clock speed of 2Ghz. You can find this on a board like the ROCK 3B from Raxda. 8Gb ram model available.
- Which operating system distributions / kernels configuration types afford the best defence against side channel attacks on RAM (rowhammer / leaking cache).
FreeBSD/OpenBSD is probably your best choise.
It has hardening options available during the install process which you can enable for extra security, such as hidding processes, randomize PID etc
Gentoo is a good choice for Linux
Customize the kernel on installation and hardened kernel available and no systemd
All Linux kernels have software patches in place to mitigate Spectre and Meltdown
As for containers, not sure that would help for memory attacks. In terms of privacy yes, as this is what Whonix and Cubes implement.
42 • @39 (by Ed on 2024-04-30 22:34:13 GMT from Sweden)
I agree.
Fedora Xrce is very reliable.
43 • Secure RAM from ‘bit flipping’ : is Optical RAM the solution? (by dob on 2024-05-01 08:15:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
If O-RAM can mitigate rowhammer ‘bit-flipping’ could it still be susceptible to targeted wear (similar to ‘dead pixel’ / ‘image rentention’)?
As with NVRAM, I’d expect some degree of over-provisioning / wear-levelling triple-channel ECC design may be necessary to monitor/maintain O-RAM integrity.
An equivalent optical replacement may be needed for cache
(used in cpu, gpu, mainboard, & devices / physical keyboard buffer).
44 • 24 H setting and Kwallet (by artytux on 2024-05-01 10:43:11 GMT from Australia)
@33 concrete umbrella
24 hour clock setting , I use that always (decades) goto the clock right click on configure digital clock setting.
Kwallet is part of KDE by default removing it not recommended, that is a huge No-No , that will brick your KDE, just turn it to off in sys settings.
45 • 43 memory attacks bit flipping (by ThomasAnderson on 2024-05-01 20:57:28 GMT from Australia)
Optical RAM? This is pure research at the moment and completely irrelevant as it doesn't exist.
Real world mitigations are available; modern DDR4 memory chips equipped with ECC. However even memory with ECC and TRR protections are vulnerable to Rowpress attacks.
Best mitigation strategy; physically secure your computer so that nobody else can tamper with it and use encryption so that only you can access the contents of your drive.
46 • Fedora40, monitor scaling (by Jan on 2024-05-01 21:44:46 GMT from The Netherlands)
I tried Fedora40 using a old notebook (P8400+8GB+SSD) with a defect screen, connected to a 24"WS monitor. This notebook has no video card, the video-work is handled by the processor.
The problem is that on the external monitor the icons and fonts are dispayed too small for me. In Windows I handle this by setting the monitor to 125%, and setting the browsers to 110% or 125%, and using the extension Zoom Page WE.
However in (Linux) Fedora only 100% and 200% are available, so too small or ridiculous big.
And in Firefox for Linux, increasing the zoom does nothing.
I found a nice solution by setting the monitor resolution from the standard highest, to 2 lower resolution fugures.
I reached by this way in Linux a more or less 125% icon/font size, faily perfect.
A supprize was that with the old notebook/CPU, Linux/browser behaved snappier. Which is of course logical because the CPU has less video-pixel-work to do.
And the text seemed to show less flimsy (for my eyes).
I tried this also with Windows. With an old desktop with a video card, I did not really see a snappier behaviour. I did see less flimsy text fonts.
Has anyone more experience (pro or con) w.r.t. this monitor-resolution-decrease-trick (Linux/Win behaviour-speed, thicker fonts, unsharp fonts) ?
47 • @39 (by Rock solid on 2024-05-01 21:48:06 GMT from United States)
You have to take all this with a grain of salt. Distrowatch very much pushes Ubuntu or at least .deb distros or perhaps rolling releases. They do not generally cover the various Fedora Spins for example. Most of the testers who write reviews, including Jessis's current review, are not familiar with installing, running, configuring, or testing fedora. Testing Fedora in VirtualBox, really? That is akin to trying to install Fedora on a toaster, Fedora is not designed to run on Virtualbox.
Any testing really should be done on bare metal with compatible hardware.
A lot of hate for Fedora comes from outright misinformation, anti-corporation, anti systemd, etc
There is also a ton of outright disrespect for decisions made by developers from people who know nothing about coding, do not contribute code or testing, and demand their pet features.
And then there is the outright misinformation posted here about Fedora (such as each release is supported for at least 13 months, not 6). Can't even begin to address all the misinformation on this site.
I emailed Jessie about these issues years ago, and suggested he post the fedora spins same as he does with Ubuntu and you can clearly see not only does he not post the fedora spins, I am guessing he does not know what options are available.
If you are interested in Fedora, I suggest you obtain your information from more reliable sources.
The advantages of fedora are:
1. You are on the cutting edge of the future of Linux. Fedora is the defacto test bed for new features (as opposed to Arch where they dump the newest package from upstream with little or no testing). Fedora was the first distro to use Wayland by default, systemd, pipewire, etc as opposed to a long list of failed projects ubuntu pushes or the complete lack of looking to the future by some distributions and desktop environments. The fact of the matter is Ubuntu, mint, debian, all these distros are years behind Fedora.
2. The Fedora project does not simply package new features, the fedora developers make significant contributions to upstream from the kernel to wayland (and xorg), etc.
3. Security - Funny how they never mention selinux, see my main point, most people here on distrowatch could care less about security and they do not understand selinux.
4. DNF has many advanced features and options simply not available on other package managers. Everyone complains it is slow, but they do not use or understand what dnf will do. For example, you can relable all your system files (ownership, permissions, and selinux) without a complete system reinstallation.
I personally have been running Fedora for many many years and have never had any problems with upgrades, they go very smooth.
Personally I do not see any appeal to installing RHEL or Ubuntu stable or Debian Stable for 10+ years, yuck, just yuck. If you do not like the current fedora release because of bugs or unpolished features, wait 6 months for Fedora +1, lol.
48 • Fedora (by Jesse on 2024-05-01 21:59:43 GMT from Canada)
@47: " Distrowatch very much pushes Ubuntu or at least .deb distros or perhaps rolling releases."
We don't. In fact, if you read my reviews, you'll note that I'm generally not a fan of rolling releases.
"They do not generally cover the various Fedora Spins for example. Most of the testers who write reviews, including Jessis's current review, are not familiar with installing, running, configuring, or testing fedora. "
I've installed and used almost every version of Fedora since it got started 20 years ago. We used to run Fedora and RHEL in our office. Suggestion I'm not familiar with it is pure foolishness.
"Any testing really should be done on bare metal with compatible hardware."
It was. Did you read the review. I tested Fedora in both bare metal and virtual environments. Both the GNOME/Workstation and the KDE Plasma spin.
"There is also a ton of outright disrespect for decisions made by developers from people who know nothing about coding, do not contribute code or testing, and demand their pet features."
Are you talking about me or other reviews here? I'm a software developer.
"And then there is the outright misinformation posted here about Fedora (such as each release is supported for at least 13 months, not 6). Can't even begin to address all the misinformation on this site."
I assume you're talking about people referring to the release cycle, which is six months? No one here is claiming Fedora's support cycle is six months, just its release cycle.
"suggested he post the fedora spins same as he does with Ubuntu and you can clearly see not only does he not post the fedora spins, I am guessing he does not know what options are available."
Please see our FAQ page on why Fedora spins are not published to the front page. https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=faq
As for not knowing what options are available, do you realize I reviewed the KDE Plasma spin? How would I do that if I wasn't aware Fedora spins exist? This makes no sense.
""Funny how they never mention selinux, see my main point, most people here on distrowatch could care less about security and they do not understand selinux."
We care a lot about security. And I'm well aware of SELinux. I think it's a bad implementation of a good idea and much prefer AppArmor and sandboxing tools.
49 • Mistaken post# reference link / Dislike of Fedora (by Otis on 2024-05-01 22:36:01 GMT from United States)
@48 the link is to post # 37 but the reference is to @47 where "Distrowatch very much pushes Ubuntu or at least .deb distros or perhaps rolling releases," and other quotes etc..
@39 I dislike what is wrecked, even though popular because of its position (earned) in the Linux Universe. Those guys/gals are serious distro devs and continue to get huge page hits here at DW and elsewhere. I call it "wrecked" because of many things, not the least of which are outlined very clearly in Jesse's review of 40 this week; Fedora honestly does behave as if it's a great set of features etc but not as one nice cohesive unit/distro. It's like 50 people producing input but not talking much to one another.
Nobara on the other hand... oh, I said that earlier.
50 • Fedora, Nobara, love and hate (by Mr. Moto on 2024-05-02 03:55:19 GMT from Philippines)
@47, "Fedora is not designed to run on Virtualbox." It runs fine on VBox for me. See my post @5. I have little or no interest in most of the distros reviewed here, but that's a lot of distros, and I'm only interested in a few. Their website, their choices, but still an excellent source for information, including Fedora.
@49 "wrecked" I have both Gnome and KDE versions installed on VMs and I don't see what is "wrecked". Some of Jesse's problems were caused by VBox, not Fedora. I did install Fedora KDE on VBox to try after reading the review, but normally I use KVM with Virt-Manager.
"Nobara on the other hand" Ok, you got me to try it. I prefer Calamares to Anaconda. After that: Sorry, but I don't see it. I'm on an Intel NUC, i3, 16 GB RAM. Never, ever hear the fan. Nobara Gnome was the exception. Noisy and hot during installation, using most of the CPU and lots of RAM. After install it was slow and still using a high % of CPU, RAM around 2.5 GB. Fedora was a much better experience, and I get nothing extra from Nobara that I need or want. Perhaps for your use there are advantages, but I'll pass.
Full disclosure: On bare metal I usually rung Debian or Ubuntu. Right now I have Ubuntu 24.04 and KDE neon 22.04. Both satisfy all my needs. Will be adding KALI in a few days for other purposes..
51 • O-RAM R&D progress (by dob on 2024-05-02 08:41:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
See 2023 publications
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Christos-Vagionas
(just one of many University of Aristotle researchers working in the optical ICT field.)
52 • O-RAM Potential pitfall (stealth side channel use) (by dob on 2024-05-02 08:56:09 GMT from United Kingdom)
Risk posed by
Out of ‘band’ use for covert (possibly multiplexed) signalling /altered timing attacks.
53 • Fedora/Nobara (by Otis on 2024-05-02 11:03:05 GMT from United States)
@50 Mr. Moto, I admit to shying away from Gnome long since, so I can't comment about it on any distro these days. The fan issue was not my problem with it, but it seems to be yours. As to no fan issue for you running Fedora, enjoy! As to any such thing on Nobara on my Acer Nitro 5 AN 517-55 with basic gaming hardware, cool as a cucumber running Nobara but not at all cool running Windows 11 which I happily removed.
Fedora, in my experience, is a patchwork of cutting edge tech in the Linux world. Patchwork. Not honed for my needs, and there are many many such distros out there which are ready to go out of the box and I've had them all over the years. Nobara wins when it comes to "ready," in my opinion/experience.
54 • Fedora and other nonsense (by Don't make me laugh on 2024-05-02 11:23:13 GMT from Australia)
@47 It's hard to know where to start with the nonsense you have spouted but before you comment maybe you should read Jesse's last review of Ubuntu - "It's a platform I would recommend avoiding".
Doesn't sound like pushing Ubuntu to me...
I personally can't stand Fedora, the philosophy behind it or Gnome and wouldn't touch either with a barge pole. Nothing to do with corporations just software I can't use.
The one time I did try Fedora on bare metal it was mind-bogglingly slow, both to boot and to run (and DNF was even slower).
I don't use Ubuntu either but when I have tried it I found it ran rings around Fedora on my equipment.
However you seem to like Fedora so good for you.
Jesse rebutted the rest of your nonsense pretty well, so nothing further for me to add.
55 • Desktop (by James on 2024-05-02 11:39:27 GMT from United States)
If you add up the traditional desktops, the traditional desktops still rule.
56 • Fedora/Nobara (by Mr. Moto on 2024-05-02 12:15:51 GMT from Philippines)
@53, "As to no fan issue for you running Fedora, enjoy!" Try reading again. I use Ubuntu and Debian. I test Fedora, along with quite a few others, on VMs. I stopped testing on bare metal a few years ago. I use Gnome and KDE as desktops, lately with a preference for Gnome since Latte Dock was abandoned. I like docks, and Gnome can be run on Wayland with a dock with some light configuration.
I'm glad you get such great performance from your Nobara install. Enjoy! However here is what the Nobara developers themselves have to say: "The Nobara Project, to put it simply, is a modified version of Fedora Linux with user-friendly fixes added to it. Fedora is a very good workstation OS, however, anything involving any kind of 3rd party or proprietary packages is usually absent from a fresh install." It's still Fedora, only with a few things added. I had some issues with the one I downloaded, and I did not find their additions useful for me, and didn't see a need to download the KDE version.
57 • Fedora’s role is valuable (by dob on 2024-05-02 12:47:13 GMT from United Kingdom)
Love it or hate it, we’d all do better to focus on the positives.
Rapid application development requires a willing and able community of bug testers for experimental features
- the kernel is not much different.
We all benefit from reports early adopters raise when testing bleeding edge stuff (they suffer, so the rest don’t have to).
Without the feedback, far more distros would be forced to be of ‘beta’ quality i.e. testing/unstable.
We should thank the Fedora’s sharks:
- our legacy and alternative system components learn to swim faster (or drown) each time they rock the boat ;-)
58 • Fedora (by ThomasAnderson on 2024-05-02 23:16:47 GMT from Australia)
@57
>> Love it or hate it, we’d all do better to focus on the positives
That was the issue in the 2007-2008 financial crisis; nobody wanted to deal with reality of the situation, instead positivism in the industry was encouraged and valid criticisms or the irresponsible lending practices and dangers ignored and everyone hoped it would just go away.
We shouldn't stick our heads in the sand and ignore the glaring issues with a distribution and just stay positive; how will shortcomings and problems ever be rectified if a community is too scared of facing reality?
The reality is that Fedora has problems and being positive won't magically make those problems go away. Thoughtful constructive feedback about technical issues and concerns need to be addressed, not swept under the carpet.
Issues with Fedora (not complete by any means):
-----------------------------------------------
Hardware Compatibility: Fedora may not always have the same level of hardware compatibility as more mainstream distributions like Ubuntu. Users might encounter difficulties getting certain hardware components to work properly without additional configuration.
Software Availability: While Fedora provides a wide range of software through its repositories, some proprietary software or niche applications may not be readily available. Users may need to resort to third-party repositories or manual installation methods to access certain software.
Updates and Stability: Fedora follows a rapid release cycle, with new versions released approximately every six months. While this provides users with access to the latest features and improvements, it can also lead to occasional stability issues or incompatibilities, especially with third-party software. Also for users who want the latest experience with the latest Gnome desktop, upgrading their system or reinstalling from scratch every 6 months is a stressful experience. There is always a possibility of the upgrade failing.
Enterprise Support: Fedora is primarily focused on providing bleeding-edge features and technologies, making it less suitable for enterprise environments that prioritize stability and long-term support. Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL), which is based on Fedora, is better suited for such use cases.
Systemd issues: The first Linux distribution to implement Systemd as its default init system was Fedora. Fedora made Systemd the default init system starting with Fedora 15, which was released in May 2011. It was not an option, it was forced on users, nor was there an alternative to switch back to SysVinit. Other distributions quickly followed however the Linux community criticized Systemd for its perceived complexity and departure from the Unix philosophy of simplicity and modularity as well as the fact that systemd tightly integrates with other parts of the Linux system, such as udev, dbus, and the kernel which make it harder to replace or modify individual components, potentially leading to vendor lock-in and reduced interoperability. We can see this in the fact that Gnome is dependent of systemd as well and more applications require systemd to function.
UEFI support: Fedora dropping BIOS support means that the users who still rely on older hardware that only supports BIOS cannot use Fedora. By dropping BIOS support, Fedora may alienate users with older systems who are unable or unwilling to upgrade to newer hardware that supports UEFI. Fedora has a history of forcing change on users which users did not ask for; Systemd and now UEFI only boot.
59 • Fedora /UEFI (by Titus Groan on 2024-05-03 04:44:05 GMT from New Zealand)
Given that UEFI has been available since approx 2006, that older hardware that Fedora has dropped legacy support for is unlikely to run Gnome their "flagship" desktop environment.
It may run KDE Plasma at a pinch. XFCE, MATE and the others are better contenders.
In saying that, it takes developer time and resources to maintain any package, so it appears that the Fedora project is making decisions to benefit from their developers time / energy.
If a developer does not wish to maintain a package, would you want to force them to?
60 • @58 you’ve no quarrel with me (by dob on 2024-05-03 13:06:40 GMT from United Kingdom)
tin foil hat time…
systemd weaknesses are partially deliberate
(Easy command control access for state-surveillance)
But I have no illusions, pretty much all core. hardware and software has been similarly knobbled (minix et al.)
We have come to expect (/ have no option but to accept) built-in capability for state surveillance.
What is unacceptable to me, is how the snoop capability has been so badly implemented to be exploitable by organised criminals / unfriendly states.
Think about it, if the CIA can’t effectively secure their own systems - what hope is there for the rest of us?
61 • Fedora (by ThomasAnderson on 2024-05-03 23:37:11 GMT from Australia)
>>tin foil hat time…
There is an inherent weakness in creating an "init" replacement for SysVinit, that aims to be more of an operating system than an init, with millions of lines of code, dozens of modules taking over system services, managing resources, logging, network, replacing home directory with systemd-homed and now a sudo replacement(run0) ... doing too many things which are not the job of an init system, introduces attack surfaces and bugs.
1.3 million lines of code, a huge number of libraries and utilities.
This goes against the Unix philosophy of, "Small is beautiful. Make each program do one thing well." Lennart cares not for these old fashioned ways of thinking, nor for POSIX.
When was the last time the entire code base of systemd was audited? Has it ever been audited?
Is there now existing a conflict of interest that Lennart now works for the behemouth Microsoft?
Just a side note for tin foil trivia night; Microsoft was working with the NSA Prism surveillance network. Microsoft created a special way for the NSA to get around the encryption in Microsoft’s latest version of Outlook.
If systemd is not faster than SysVinit, and non-systemd distros such as Devuan, Artix, Gentoo etc can all run Linux without problems, why then do we need systemd?
Number of Comments: 61
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Funtoo Linux was a Gentoo-based distribution developed by Daniel Robbins (the founder and former project leader of Gentoo Linux) and a core team of developers, built around a basic vision of improving the core technologies in Gentoo Linux. Funtoo Linux features native UTF-8 support enabled by default, a git-based, distributed Portage tree and Funtoo overlay, an enhanced Portage with more compact mini-manifest tree, automated imports of new Gentoo changes every 12 hours, GPT/GUID boot support and streamlined boot configuration, enhanced network configuration, up-to-date stable and current Funtoo stages - all built using Funtoo's Metro build tool.
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