 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 1040, 9 October 2023 |
Welcome to this year's 41st issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
There are hundreds of Linux distributions in the world. One thing they all have in common, whether the distribution is independent or a grandchild of another project, is they share at least some components. It might just be the Linux kernel and a few command line components, or it might be a compiler and desktop environment, but all members of the Linux family share and build on some common elements. Sharing pieces of software means less work for the developers as modules can be snapped into place, but it also means issues in one distribution are often shared across others. This week, in our News section, we talk about a flaw in the commonly used glibc software which affected most Linux distributions. We also talk about Linux Mint addressing limitations in new versions of GTK-based applications while the team publishes new install media. Plus we discuss Debian publishing updated install media while Murena begins crowdfunding a new, privacy-focused smart phone. Do you like the idea of having a phone with privacy-focused hardware switches? Let us know in the Opinion Poll below. First though, we begin with a look at CROWZ, a Devuan-based distribution which offers a minimal, efficient approach. Jeff Siegel took CROWZ for a test drive and reports on his experiences in our Feature Story. In our Questions and Answers column we discuss changing the locations of default directories. Plus we are pleased to share the releases of the past week and list the torrents we are seeding. We wish you all a terrific week and happy reading!
This week's DistroWatch Weekly is presented by TUXEDO Computers.
Content:
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| Feature Story (By Jeff Siegel) |
CROWZ 5.0
Is CROWZ, a distro with a 1.0GB ISO and based on Devuan, one of the best minimal distros available today?
It sure seems that way, and running it for a week didn't change my mind in the least. CROWZ isn't perfect, but it leverages a selection of light-weight window managers and the PCManFM file manager to produce a user experience that isn't overly intimidating for first-timers nor too dumbed down for those who think GUIs are a waste of coding.
CROWZ isn't quite as polished as MX Linux, but it's more useful than Puppy Linux or EasyOS, two quality minimal distros with their share of eccentricities. CROWZ has those certainly, starting with a surprising lack of documentation, a sometimes troublesome installation process, and what is either a bug or design flaw surrounding Network Manager.
But none of that really gets in the way - which may be the most surprising thing about CROWZ. Most of these kinds of distros, which are put together by small groups of volunteers, seem to have difficulty getting past the hobbyist stage. But CROWZ can function as a daily driver, especially for older hardware. Believe it not, there's even a word processor (sort of) in the installation ISO.
Getting started
CROWZ comes in three 64-bit versions, featuring the Fluxbox, JWM, and Openbox windows managers. There are 32-bit versions, but they date from 2020 and there's no indication on the download site if they're still supported. There also aren't any system requirements listed, save for a line that says CROWZ is based on Devuan GNU+Linux 5.0. The latter is based on Debian 12 Bookworm, and Bookworm's documentation suggests at least a Pentium 4, 1GHz system to run a desktop, plus 2GB of RAM and a 10GB hard drive.
CROWZ 5.0 -- Running the Openbox window manager
(full image size: 45kB, resolution: 1368x768 pixels)
I worked with the 64-bit Openbox spin of the latest CROWZ release, version 5.0, which uses the 6.1.0-1 kernel and, according to the release notes, includes mostly minor changes from 4.0 (which was released about 14 months ago). The notes highlight its dark theme, its Calamares installer, and that it's systemd-free, though it doesn't say what it does use. SysV init was the answer, after a little command line hunting and pecking. There are a couple of pages of documentation covering the last few releases and a link to a forum with ten posts, none less than a year old; otherwise, we're on our own.
All of this makes CROWZ sound less than appealing. And CROWZ in VirtualBox doesn't inspire much confidence, either. The CROWZ display doesn't resize to match the VirtualBox window, and trying to change the resolution offers four screens. Trying to load the current Firefox ESR (version 102.15), the default web browser, uses all the available memory and almost two-thirds of the CPU, and never does load.
CROWZ 5.0 -- Running CROWZ in VirtualBox
(full image size: 90kB, resolution: 1145x840 pixels)
The initial impressions on my 11-year-old Asus test laptop (older hardware, yes?) weren't much better. This seems to be a combination of a design flaw and how the Calamares installer works. The installer needs an Internet connection to complete successfully (though this is never really mentioned anywhere). But the theme is so dark that it's almost impossible to see the network manager icon in the upper-right corner of the panel, next to the audio icon. Plus, WiFi is turned off by default on the live session, so if the installation tries to connect (which it sometimes did), it won't find the network and fail.
Meanwhile, setting the display resolution is an adventure in trial and error; some of the listed screen resolutions don't exist. You need to right click the desktop and go to Settings/Display to find the display manager settings, which use the ARandR Screen Layout Editor. ARandR is not only less than intuitive, but it doesn't use the saved settings in a new session. That means the saved setting needs to be applied after boot, every time.
Still, lean and quick
So, given all of this, why is CROWZ so impressive? Because once you navigate these obstacles, it's lean and quick, with nary a wasted motion. Even Firefox loads in about a second. The entire installation took up 10GB of disk space on the Asus; by comparison, a fresh install of Xubuntu 22.04 recommends we have about 20GB.
Openbox (version 3.6.1-10), which sometimes gets lost in the shuffle when it's used elsewhere, is the star here. Everything is literally a desktop right-click away, whether it's adding software with Synaptic, running the Google Docs web app, configuring Conky, or using the PCManFM file manager (version 1.3.2).
CROWZ 5.0 -- Exploring directories with the file manager
(full image size: 118kB, resolution: 1368x768 pixels)
Given that the trend in desktop design today is to become more complicated (yes, that means you, GNOME), Openbox is - despite its long tenure among Linux distros - almost a revelation. Its use here is an example how to build a quality, 21st-century Linux desktop without a bit of bloat. And it does so without sacrificing functionality. As long as I remembered to right-click instead of Ctrl+Space to launch something like Albert or Kupfer, I was as comfortable working with CROWZ as my usual Xubuntu.
CROWZ 5.0 -- The welcome window
(full image size: 50kB, resolution: 1368x768 pixels)
Among the CROWZ features
- CROWZ-welcome, a GUI/command line hybrid that pops up on after booting (or that can be run from the command line) that allows you to check updates, add LibreOffice, install Chrome or Chromium, and to add a couple of command line apps, including the Poor Man's Radio Player. Plus, there is the ability to add development tools such as version control software.
- CROWZ-welcome provides access to CUPS and printing, which doesn't come with the installation. The option adds the basic printer GUI, as well as offering access to CUPS via localhost. This is the only other annoyance; sometimes it detected the Canon MX920 on my home network, and sometimes I had to go through the entire, brain crushing, adding a printer process.
- An Applications folder within PCManFM, with sub-folders for Accessories, Games, and so forth for those who want a more traditional menu. Know that, for the live version, the installation icon is in the System Tools sub-folder under Applications (and the password to launch it is "live" (one of the few bits of necessary information in the documentation).
- Laptop support. CROWZ-welcome says the distro doesn't support laptops, though I didn't notice any particular difference. But it does offer the option of adding ACPI support, as well as the Xfce power manager.
CROWZ 5.0 -- A chance to view the release notes
(full image size: 21kB, resolution: 1368x768 pixels)
Lots of choices
The software assortment is more than thorough, which shouldn't be surprising given the distro's intentions. They include FileZilla (version 3.63), which doesn't crop up much on the distros I work with; GParted; the Mousepad text editor; the Mirage image viewer; Atri document viewer; and DeaDBeeF for music, Parole for videos, and MPV for good measure. I especially liked the addition of a LXTerminal launcher which opens the terminal as root, and (of course) there are two other terminals.
If you want an e-mail app, you'll have to add one via Synaptic, though I imagine the typical CROWZ user doesn't much care (or runs Mutt). The only other thing lacking are icons, themes, and wallpapers. The handful that are included are mostly various shades of dark, and adding anything lighter from Synaptic and then substituting for what's there messes with the screen equilibrium. It sort of looks OK, but that's about it. But again, I don't think theming is the point of what the distro's developers are trying to do.
Finally, a word about Devuan and how it works here. I'm neutral on the init controversy. Yes, systemd seems like an attempt to solve a problem that doesn't exist, but as long as it does what it's supposed to do, I'd rather worry about other Linux and FOSS issues. Having said that, I didn't notice any difference between how the Devuan base ran in the background here and the Debian-based systemd distros I normally use.
In the end, CROWZ does what so many try to accomplish but don't quite deliver - a quality effort from what seems to be just a handful of developers. Would that this happened more often.
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Hardware used for this review
My physical test equipment for this review was an Asus UX31A laptop with the following specifications:
- Processor: Intel Core i5-3317U, 1.7GHz
- Storage: 128GB SSD
- Memory: 4GB of RAM
- Networking: Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6235 802.11 a/b/g/n wireless
- Display: Integrated Intel HD Graphics 4000
When he is not testing out new versions of Linux distributions, Jeff Siegel can be found writing about all things related to wine at WineCurmudgeon.com.
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Visitor supplied rating
CROWZ has a visitor supplied average rating of: 8.1/10 from 17 review(s).
Have you used CROWZ? You can leave your own review of the project on our ratings page.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
Linux Mint updates Edge media and addresses theme issues with some GTK apps, Murena begins crowdfunding a privacy-focused phone, Linux distributions patch glibc vulnerability
The Linux Mint team have published new "Edge" ISO files for the Linux Mint 21.2 series. The Edge media provides updated software, in particularly a newer kernel is offered for improved hardware support. "This is a quick announcement to let you know an Edge ISO image is now available for Linux Mint 21.2. This image is made for people whose hardware is too new to boot the 5.15 LTS kernel included in Linux Mint 21.x. It ships with kernel 6.2 instead. For information on Edge ISO images visit https://linuxmint-user-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/edge.html. Note: This ISO also brings back support for Secure Boot."
The Mint team also published their monthly newsletter which provides an overview of changes to the distribution. One of the items mentioned is dealing with breaking updates in a few GTK applications. "While working on LMDE 6 we came across applications written with GTK4/libAdwaita. These applications are designed for GNOME only and do not support themes. This makes them look different than all other apps and out of place within the desktop. We solved this issue in LMDE 6 by removing one of them and downgrading the other apps back to their GTK3 versions. Going forward we'll need to come up with a decision on how to handle this long-term. This is something that will need to be done in preparation for Linux Mint 22."
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Murena, an organization which develops a de-Googled branch of Android called /e/OS, has announced the development of a new device with enhanced privacy features. The new device, called the Murena 2 (or Murena Two), ships with the usual collection of privacy features other Murena phones provide. These include privacy ratings for applications, widgets to hide the user's location and IP address, and the ability to block commonly used trackers in apps.
The new device's key feature is a set of physical privacy switches - one which will turn off the camera and microphone, and another which will disable networking, audio, and GPS. "Privacy shouldn't be a complication. It needs to be accessible for everyone. The Privacy switch allows you to control your microphones and cameras directly, with only an action from your finger! Move it down and your cameras and microphones are switched off and move it up to turn them back on. Not only is this a convenient and swift way to increase your privacy, but also a solid guarantee that your life is not being snooped around anymore." The Murena Two can be pre-ordered on Kickstarter.
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The Debian team have announced the availability of new install media for Debian version 11 and version 12. The new media includes bug fixes for packages which have been discovered and patched since the original release. "The Debian project is pleased to announce the second update of its stable distribution Debian 12 (codename bookworm). This point release mainly adds corrections for security issues, along with a few adjustments for serious problems. Security advisories have already been published separately and are referenced where available. Please note that the point release does not constitute a new version of Debian 12 but only updates some of the packages included."
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This past week a number of news sites covered an overview of a severe security issue in the glibc software. This library is a common component across most Linux distributions and the discovered flaw could result in an attacker being able to run programs as the root user. Cyber Kendra reports: "The vulnerability was introduced in glibc version 2.34 released in April 2021. The Qualys researchers discovered that by overwriting a specific function pointer in memory, they could control the ld.so loader's library search path and force it to load a malicious shared library under their control. This library can then execute arbitrary code with the privileges of any setuid or setgid binary on the system." The vulnerability worked on Debian, Fedora, and Ubuntu and is expected to work on most mainstream distributions. Projects such as Alpine Linux, which run alternative C libraries, like musl, are not affected. Most projects have patched glibc and recommend users update their systems with the new fix using their distribution's package manager.
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Changing default directory locations
Finding-a-new-place-for-everything asks: How do I go about changing the default location for where things are saved? All my applications default to opening Downloads or Documents, but I want to organize stuff in a different folder.
DistroWatch answers: Depending on whether you want to use the Documents and Downloads directories for other things or not, there are at least two fairly easy approaches you can take.
Let's say that you want to keep the Documents and Downloads directories (and their contents), but just do not want them to be the default location for opening and saving files. You can change the default locations most applications use by opening the file ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs in a text editor. Here you will see a list of variable names and corresponding locations. It looks like this:
XDG_DESKTOP_DIR="$HOME/Desktop"
XDG_DOWNLOAD_DIR="$HOME/Downloads"
XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR="$HOME/Documents"
Here we see the default locations for the desktop, download directory, and documents. Changing the path name on the right side of the equals sign (=) will change the default location for files and applications. Let's say I want to store new items I downloaded through my web browser in a directory called WebStuff, I could change the above entries as follows:
XDG_DESKTOP_DIR="$HOME/Desktop"
XDG_DOWNLOAD_DIR="$HOME/WebStuff"
XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR="$HOME/Documents"
Then I would save the ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs text file and, in the future, applications would treat "WebStuff" as my default place for saving downloaded files.
Earlier I mentioned another approach we can use. If you do not want to keep the default directories, we can delete them and replace them with symbolic links to new locations. For example, here I create the "WebStuff" directory and move my downloads to it. Then I delete the Downloads directory and replace it with a link to the new location. This makes applications treat Downloads and WebStuff as if they were the same location.
mkdir ~/WebStuff
mv ~/Downloads/* ~/WebStuff/
rmdir ~/Downloads
ln -s ~/WebStuff ~/Downloads
The first approach is probably the more proper, clean way to do things. However, either should work equally well from the point of view of your desktop applications and where they store files.
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Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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| Released Last Week |
SpiralLinux 12.231001
SpiralLinux is a selection of desktop spins built from Debian, with a focus on simplicity and out-of-the-box usability across all the major desktop environments. The project's latest release focuses on audio output, touchpad input, and placing reasonable limits on Btrfs snapshots. "For this release all editions of SpiralLinux are now using PipeWire with a proper out-of-the-box configuration for low-latency (5.3ms by default) JACK-compatible live audio applications, even on standard consumer hardware. The default configuration is unique to SpiralLinux and includes overrides to the default PipeWire configuration as well as a number of low-level system tweaks as recommended by rtcqs. This makes SpiralLinux an excellent base system for professional live audio production JACK workflows while simultaneously offering compatibility with normal PulseAudio consumer applications. To take full advantage of the low-latency JACK compatibility simply run 'sudo systemctl enable cpupower' to enable the optimal performance CPU governor." Additional details can be found in the release notes.
SpiralLinux 12.231001 -- Running the KDE Plasma desktop
(full image size: 1.9MB, resolution: 1920x1200 pixels)
elementary OS 7.1
elementary OS is an Ubuntu-based distribution which features the Pantheon desktop environment. The project has updated its 7.x series, code name "Horus", with a number of new features and improvements. One focus of the new 7.1 release is privacy: "Today, we're proud to announce that OS 7.1 is available to download now and shipping on several high-quality computers. This release represents the sum of our work over the last several months as a single major update to the OS 7 series and includes all of the monthly OS updates we've detailed since the OS 7 release. One of the most prevalent problems we face in our current digital lives is the violation of our privacy and the lack of consent when interacting with our devices each day. Portals seek to provide a safe and consensual way for apps to interact with the operating system and ensure that they only get access to the data and features that you want them to. One of the ways that apps may become intrusive is by automatically starting themselves or running in the background without your permission. In OS 7.1, we now provide the Background & Autostart Portal which alerts you when apps are running in the background and makes sure that apps ask your permission before they can automatically start up when you turn on your device." Additional details are provided in the project's release announcement.
Slax 15.0.3, 12.1.0
Tomáš Matějíček has released two updated builds of Slax, the project's minimalist, Slackware- and Debian-based live distributions: "I am thrilled to introduce the newest version of Slax, your only pocket operating system. This update is available for both of its bases: one that's built on Debian (version 12.1) and the other one on Slackware (version 15.0.2-current). One of the most notable enhancements of this release is the improved session handling, especially when running Slax from writable devices, like USB drives or hard disks. In the past, Slax didn't offer an easy method to manage multiple sessions. All modifications were simply stored in the /slax/changes directory, providing just one session in general. However, with this update, you can now maintain multiple sessions. Each session is neatly saved in its own subdirectory within /slax/changes/. At boot time, you are presented with options: you can either start a new session, resume a previous one, or select a session of your choice from a menu." The release announcement offers a full list of new features and enhancements.
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 2,911
- Total data uploaded: 43.6TB
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) |
Do you like the idea of using a smart phone with hardware privacy switches?
In our News section we talked about Murena's upcoming privacy-focused phone which features two hardware switches. These switches will block audio/video listening and electronic emissions, respectively. What do you think about using a phone with privacy switches? Let us know if you've used a phone with privacy switches in the comments.
You can see the results of our previous poll on using the Reiser filesystem (ReiserFS) in last week's edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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When it comes to using a phone with hardware privacy switches...
| I have used one and liked it: | 66 (5%) |
| I have used one and did not like it: | 8 (1%) |
| I would like to use one: | 822 (66%) |
| I would not like to use one: | 112 (9%) |
| Undecided: | 229 (19%) |
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| Website News |
Wednesday's network disruption
A few people wrote to us on Wednesday of this past week indicating they were unable to access the DistroWatch website and wondering if there was a problem or if we were blocking ranges of IP addresses. What had happened was a problem occurred with some of our DNS records for DistroWatch.com (DistroWatch.org, which points to this same website, was unaffected).
This was an unusual situation in that everything on our web server was running fine, but traffic was getting directed to the wrong place for a little while and not reaching us. We quickly contacted the proper people and got our DNS records restored to working order. However, these things take time to propagate throughout the Internet and get around to all the ISPs. So, for some people, the fix was almost immediate while for the others the fix took several hours.
We'd like to thank the people who reported the issue and appreciate everyone's patience while we waited for the various service providers to update their records. Your assistance and understanding were very helpful.
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DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 16 October 2023. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Weekly Archive and Article Search pages. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Devuan and compatibles (by mnrv-ovrf-year-c on 2023-10-09 01:18:26 GMT from Puerto Rico)
I've really tried to get along. First tried CROWZ shortly after it was first announced on this site. Its Calamares had to be hunted down somewhere inside "home" directory. It refused to install the bootloader for me. I didn't know what I was going to get from it anyway, not even Wine. I chose the ISO with Fluxbox.
Sometime later I noticed Gnuinos updating their ISO's. Picked the Openbox version but hesitated to install it. I had successfully installed it last year with XFCE but it upgraded that D.E. to v4.18 which I have a small problem with, and it was a bit messy starting up but otherwise OK. No such luck trying it with KDE. It installed successfully but went into a loop trying to find non-free firmware, instead of log-in prompt. Once I managed to get in as "root" user but it couldn't come up with ALSA. I installed again with "runit" instead of "sysvinit" and was able to go into the desktop for the first time installed, but no ALSA. At next log-in attempt, again the fruitless non-free firmware search which required power button hold-down. Too bad because for some strange reason, I was able to get Wine out of it. Next I installed Devuan, everything was as if it were Debian but they didn't have Wine in their repositories. Without Wine I don't dance with the penguin.
Note that I purposely chose "Chimaera" release. I don't like the next one because I don't like Wine v8, it's starting to break things compatible with 32-bit WindowsXP. Debian "Bullseye" has Wine v5.0.3 which is outdated but works well for me.
I had to put off Spiral Linux "Bookworm" with KDE eventually because it couldn't detect my touchpad upon log-in. Wound up replicating an installation which was "Bullseye" compatible and raising it to "Bookworm" status. Nevertheless I recommend Spiral Linux instead of Debian for people who don't like being hassled by rolling-release distros and have "heard" and "seen" too many things. Sorry for this O.T.
2 • Phone with hardware privacy switches (by Vinfall on 2023-10-09 01:43:04 GMT from Hong Kong)
I love physical killswitch (and physical keys in general) so much that I'm willing to pay extra $50 for it. But sadly nowadays phones are ALL ugly in terms of cameras. You can only get a minimum aesthetic in those "budget phones" whose camera specs are shrinked and thus ironically better, or, pay extra money like $200-300 for a pocket sized "small phones" that are semi-flagship and already have hefty price tag on its own.
3 • GTK4/libAdwaita ... (by nsp0323 on 2023-10-09 04:57:44 GMT from Sweden)
... or, how Gnome broke the toolkit.
4 • Phone with hardware privacy switches (by eee on 2023-10-09 05:32:12 GMT from Poland)
I don't like smartphones at all. But if I had to use one, I would want it to have hardware privacy switches.
5 • Phone & Privacy (by Borgio3 on 2023-10-09 07:04:22 GMT from Italy)
I no longer use the smartphone and my privacy is safe without other gadgets. I went back to the GSM mobile phone.
6 • identity fiefs (by Juvenal on 2023-10-09 09:22:18 GMT from United Kingdom)
By default, camera processing should not be permitted to capture location EXIF data.
Even where the capture of gps coordinates can be faked or disabled
- triangulation and leaking of location data by other means (nfc bluetooth and wifi proximity) is used to betray the privacy of netizens.
Any app or browser or intermediary using compromised libraries / servers will circumvent privacy protections
consider
cve's pertaining to webp webm
firewall circumventing rtc / https tls tunnels.
The degree of privacy murena is advocating
- would necessitate abandonning mobile communications entirely.
Every service has been nobbled by insecure dependencies and untrustworthy third parties.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
we're looking right back at you apple cloudfare amazon google meta...
7 • Smartphones and privacy (by Allways-curious-about-Foos on 2023-10-09 09:47:57 GMT from Germany)
They are force you more and more to use a smartphone. You want to get your parcel at the parcel delivery machine? No chance without Smartphone! Ticket for bus? You need a Smartphone! More and more issues of daily life only with smartphone!
I don't have a smartphone. Its a cinema for mouses with a ugly usabillity concept!
What about using a smartphone with a free OS like Murena ?
The apps for getting a parcel, a busticket and more issues of daily life are closed source and proprietary software and only for Android and iOS.
So they forcing you twice times: a smartphone and a OS you don't want.
8 • Dead man talking (by To the world wide asleep on 2023-10-09 10:28:38 GMT from United Kingdom)
Never forget the sacrifice of Jamal Khashoggi
Nor how mobile spyware (Pegasus) played a role in targeting him
(+5 years + 1 week)
AI, Deep Fakes, Surveillance Telemetry, Big Data, floc, & echo chambers
- weapons of mass distraction
9 • Murena's not so wide horizon (by pass on 2023-10-09 11:11:24 GMT from Italy)
Murena should first grant every smartphone is entitled to receive its OS, instead of selling its own ones. If I have to buy their HW to use their SW, what's the difference from Apple, Microsoft and so on?
10 • Murena (by Jesse on 2023-10-09 13:21:12 GMT from Canada)
@9: "Murena should first grant every smartphone is entitled to receive its OS, instead of selling its own ones. If I have to buy their HW to use their SW, what's the difference from Apple, Microsoft and so on?"
You've never had to buy Murena hardware to use their software. Their operating system runs on dozens of Android phones. It's just Android with the Google bits removed so you can run it on most smart phones.
11 • Privacy Switches (by sephiroth7818 on 2023-10-09 14:05:57 GMT from United States)
Should already be a software option IMO. But G**** and A**** focus too much on user input. Also IMO, I'd still like to be using a phone with a physical keyboard. *shrug*
12 • Linux Phones (by Mike on 2023-10-09 14:21:52 GMT from Netherlands)
Linux as an OS for a smartphone is very interesting.
Problem continues to be that "big apps" like Whatsapp are not available.
That makes these phones not ready for every day use.
13 • @11 Physical Keyboard (by sephiroth7818 from United States) (by 12345 on 2023-10-09 14:59:49 GMT from Switzerland)
@11: "Also IMO, I'd still like to be using a phone with a physical keyboard. *shrug* "
So who or what is stopping you?
It's been working on Android and iOS for years already.
Maybe try asking Google for some "how to's" instead of some DuckIsNoGo's.
14 • hardware switches (by MikeOh Shark on 2023-10-09 15:16:16 GMT from United States)
I don't know about Murena but years ago I had an Averatec laptop with a physical switch on the side for WiFi. The salesperson said you could turn off WiFi for airplane mode.
After switching to Linux, I found that I could turn on and use the WiFi with the physical switch in either position. Apparently some physical switches are software controls. Be careful out there!
15 • @13 (by sephiroth7818 on 2023-10-09 15:27:53 GMT from United States)
@13 "So who or what is stopping you?
It's been working on Android and iOS for years already.
Maybe try asking Google for some "how to's" instead of some DuckIsNoGo's."
What are you on about???
There are no current smartphones with physical keyboards sold in the US that the US carriers support. I'm not talking about a bluetooth keyboard. I'm talking about a phone like a Blackberry. Or like the Samsung Epic.
DuckDuckGo isn't helpful for anything.
Thanks for the assumptions.
16 • @15 (by sephiroth7818 from United States) (by 12345 on 2023-10-09 15:47:54 GMT from Switzerland)
@15: "There are no current smartphones with physical keyboards sold in the US that the US carriers support. I'm not talking about a bluetooth keyboard. I'm talking about a phone like a Blackberry. Or like the Samsung Epic... Thanks for the assumptions."
And I say ask Google...
(Wellcome.)
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Unihertz-Titan-Pocket-Small-QWERTY-Smartphone-Android-11-Unlocked-NFC-Phone/521518469
17 • CROWZ (by zephyr on 2023-10-09 16:22:55 GMT from United States)
I would like to thank Jeff Siegel for a fair and good review of CROWZ in the DistroWatch Featured Story.
There have been new isos uploads in the last few days before the review. All iso's which are no longer supported with archived releases have been removed. The i686 32-bit Beowulf isos can be used and upgraded to the Daedalus release.
Thanks again
zephyr
18 • Android is Open Source, and built on the Linux kernel... (by Sitwon on 2023-10-10 03:05:53 GMT from United States)
Android is an Open Source operating system built on the Linux kernel. See also: AOSP and GrapheneOS.
In theory, it wouldn't be all that difficult to run Android apps on a Linux OS. I believe there are several projects that do exactly that. Notably, Waydroid.
Sure, many of the apps themselves are still closed source, but GrapheneOS or Waydroid allow you to implement more fine-grained permissions on how those apps are allowed to interact with your device/data than the stock Android OS. (Also, let's be real, Android apps are basically Java bytecode which is trivial to disassemble.)
19 • @16 - phone with qwerty keyboard (by Andy Prough on 2023-10-10 03:16:09 GMT from United States)
>"Unihertz-Titan-Pocket-Small-QWERTY-Smartphone"
Unihertz also makes the newer, more powerful, and all-around nicer Titan Slim, with a larger screen and a full qwerty keyboard. I found it with a DuckDuckGo search by the way.
20 • privacy switches (by phonesy on 2023-10-10 06:24:50 GMT from France)
Have used numerous privacy switches on laptops (not phones yet) - both soft and hardware types. They're OK for an average user, but as with anything in computing there's so many communication pathways, that a malware infection will usualy find a way to get your data.
Our best hope is for breakthroughs in AI combined with soft / hardware to plug security holes & reduce malware effectiveness.
21 • Privacy Switches (by Geo on 2023-10-10 12:11:55 GMT from Canada)
I have secured an /e/ os phone for privacy.
22 • @19 (by Andy Prough from United States) (by 12345 on 2023-10-10 12:44:41 GMT from Switzerland)
@19: "Unihertz also makes the newer, more powerful, and all-around nicer Titan Slim, with a larger screen and a full qwerty keyboard."
It may be nicer, but more powerful? Both use the ancient Helio P70 octa-core, both come with Android 11, and both have unusable screens and cameras, but at least Pocket makes a better MP3 player and "the night in the woods" device because it's ruggedized and has the headphone jack.
@19: "I found it with a DuckDuckGo search by the way."
You don't even need a search engine to find a keypad phone, and you don't need it to find the "newer, more powerful" model. You can compare them on the manufacturer's website, and if you want to buy one, just check out the Amazon and few biggest stores in your country.
But if you basically hate smartphones and still have to buy one, and all you want is cheap device with long support, then you need a search engine to tell you that the Xiaomi Realmi 12 for $135 is a better buy than the cheapest iPhone, because the latter will only get updates for 6 years, and the former for 4 -- at less than 1/3 of the price.
If DuckDuckGo was any good, everyone would be using it, but they are not. DuckIsNoGo because it doesn't track your user profile to prioritize search results that are relevant to your search history, online activity and preferences, it doesn't collect and analyze user data to tailor ads, it doesn't personalize search results, it doesn't offer many extra tools and integrated services, etc. Basically, it all boils down to this: "Have you found it yet, or are you still looking?"
23 • Murena's not so wide horizon - take two (by pass on 2023-10-10 14:22:03 GMT from Italy)
@10
"You've never had to buy Murena hardware to use their software. Their operating system runs on dozens of Android phones."
Dozens, not any kind of. I've been looking for Murena on my smartphones, none of them was covered. I could set up Linux on _every_ PC I got, why Murena can't let users do the same for any Android phone? And it's not Murena only, any Linux for smartphones I could find had heavy restrictions on which devices were supported, some producers had hardly a couple of them.
Those projects should really focus on being widespread available, not only on Pixels and some Samsung/Xiaomi high-level phones. Most Linux users heavily think over money, why should one buy one for a thousand dollar or more and risk bricking that shortly after with a non-official OS?
If you want to have them highly appreciated, have them easily available.
24 • @22, phones (by Mr. Moto on 2023-10-10 14:24:35 GMT from Japan)
Redmi is a sub-brand of Xiaomi. Realme is it's own brand, owned by BBK Electronics along with Oppo, Vivo and OnePlus. All make good, competent phones at decent prices. (I have a Vivo.) For those to whom it matters, all these phones, along with Unihertz, are Chinese.
25 • Murena on Phones (by Jesse on 2023-10-10 14:27:41 GMT from Canada)
@23: > "Dozens, not any kind of. I've been looking for Murena on my smartphones, none of them was covered."
There are 245 supported phones Murena is known to run on.https://doc.e.foundation/devices
> "I could set up Linux on _every_ PC I got, why Murena can't let users do the same for any Android phone?"
Almost all smart phones are locked down by design and use proprietary drivers. It's a lot of work to port an OS to a locked device. Since virtually every smart phone on the market is unique in some way this means you can't just write one OS port for mobile ARM devices, you need to do all the porting work for each device. PCs are open by design, which means if you port to one x86 PC you can basically run on all of them. Phones are intentionally designed to make this impossible.
> "Those projects should really focus on being widespread available, not only on Pixels and some Samsung/Xiaomi high-level phones. "
As I explained above, they can't. Phone OEMs make sure they can't. If you want wider support then you need to buy open hardware, like the PinePhone.
26 • Removing Unthemeable GTK4/libAdwaita Apps Is Not a Viable Path Forward (by joncr on 2023-10-10 14:33:48 GMT from United States)
Mint's decision to remove some unthemeable GTK4/libAdwaita apps from LMDE makes sense but it isn't a practical approach in the long term. There are many users out there, like me, who want/need to use Gnome apps on non-Gnome desktops but also expect those desktops to provide a uniform and consistent UI. Gnome's capture of GTK combined with its own take on the walled garden means that's impossible.
27 • Murena on phones? (by pass on 2023-10-10 14:43:44 GMT from Italy)
@10
"Phones are intentionally designed to make this impossible."
So why bother to try and hack them?
Maybe that's why those projects seldom live enough.
Maybe better buy a PinePhone... if I could get one at a reasonable configuration and support.
28 • @23, Murena, et al. (by Mr. Moto on 2023-10-10 14:45:16 GMT from Japan)
Android phones are not like PCs. They are dependent on the manufacturers, or in some cases the ISPs you buy from, for compatibility with third party custom ROMs. Some makers, like Samsung, make it particularly difficult. Even when a ROM is listed as working on a particular model, the chances of bricking are fairly high. A ROM that works on Model 9 of brand X may not work on Model 10 of Brand X. I have an old Samsung tablet that can't be updated and can't accept any customs. Also have an old phone that' is bricked, albeit temporarily, I hope, until I get the energy to try again. Most Android customs are made by independent developers and hackers for no monetary gain. Murena is a small outfit. They make no money from distributing an OS, and there is no way they would have the capacity, manpower, or time to try every one of the myriad phones on the market.
29 • @27, Android hacking (by Mr. Moto on 2023-10-10 15:10:02 GMT from Japan)
"So why bother to try and hack them?" Because of planned obsolescence. There are many millions of people out there with phones that work fine but can't be updated. My neighbor has an iPad, and she asked me to load a popular shopping app. Can't do it. Too old. Gotta buy a new one. I appreciate the effort made by developers, like those who publish on xda-developers.com which allow the life of many devices to be extended past the official expiration date, even if they don't always work.
30 • Phones (by Jesse on 2023-10-10 15:22:37 GMT from Canada)
@27: "So why bother to try and hack them?"
Because it means we get to use our phones the way we want to use them. Phones which run ported open operating systems (like UBports and Murena's /e/OS) are user-centric. My phones don't nag me to enable features, they don't display ads, they don't report home with telemetry, they don't ship with a bunch of extra vendor-specific apps I can't remove.
My phone works for me, not a company, and works the way I want it to work. It's a computing device which is intended to be my tool, not a glorified ad platform for Google or Apple.
If that means taking an extra minute to pick which phone I buy or buy one with an OS I like pre-installed, that's a pretty small effort on my part to get a much better experience.
31 • @24 (by Mr. Moto from Japan) (by 12345 on 2023-10-10 15:25:59 GMT from Switzerland)
@24: Yes, you are right. That was a typo, Xiaomi REDMI 12 vs Realme.
32 • Debian new releases don't address CVE-2023-4911 (by checker on 2023-10-10 18:20:55 GMT from United States)
I checked their contents file and found that the glibc version was /pool-udeb/main/g/glibc/libc6-udeb_2.36-9+deb12u2_amd64.udeb, a vulnerable version, behind the fixed version of bookworm (security) 2.36-9+deb12u3 .
Sources:
https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2023-4911
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/12.2.0-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/debian-live-12.2.0-amd64-gnome.iso.contents
33 • Planned obsolescence (by Friar Tux on 2023-10-10 19:20:18 GMT from Canada)
@29 & @30 "Planned obsolescence" Along with price, this folks, is one reason why some of us don't ever plan on getting "smartphones". Planned obsolescence is a big deal breaker for me - pretty well in any product. (I still have my first laptop and still use it. I still use the speakers to my very first computer.) A friend of mine gets a new cellphone every 5 years. He also gets a new car every 5 years. I, on the other hand, am an avid fan of the modular format. Being able to easily change out parts. But all this, built to last. Sure, I get it, if your product doesn't age, you don't get the sales, but, really, I also think we've taken this way too far.
As for price, one of the things I do to see if something is over priced is to find out the cost of materials and labour of the object (cost of mass production included), plus the cost of the various mark ups. Using this, cellphones are 400 to 500 percent over-priced (some a lot more). Too much for my blood.
34 • CROWZ: rough around the edges (by eco2geek on 2023-10-11 00:56:44 GMT from United States)
When I downloaded and booted from the CROWZ JWM live media, it wouldn't boot to a graphical GUI and dumped me at a login prompt. I suspect it didn't boot to a graphical GUI due to the "nouveau.modeset=0" preset boot parameter, because it did after I changed the "0" to a "1" and retried.
Also, the default username was nowhere to be found on their website, and the default password was only hinted at when it said to use "live" if the installation asked for a password. This made it impossible to log in.
The default username is "crowzlive" and the default password is "live". Most live distros I've seen list that information prominently, usually in their README files, but not CROWZ.
35 • Phones (by Otis on 2023-10-11 01:37:37 GMT from United States)
@30 "Because it means we get to use our phones the way we want to use them. Phones which run ported open operating systems (like UBports and Murena's /e/OS) are user-centric. My phones don't nag me to enable features, they don't display ads, they don't report home with telemetry, they don't ship with a bunch of extra vendor-specific apps I can't remove."
"My phone works for me, not a company, and works the way I want it to work. It's a computing device which is intended to be my tool, not a glorified ad platform for Google or Apple."
I have never seen ads or nags to enable features. There is a reminder in my iPhone workout/activities app about the expiring Something Or Other + I could get if I wanted to go on a special guided workout regimen. That and the Apple + or whatever it is not needed support extender or whatever that is. I just let them expire.
That's it, and my phone does exactly what I want it to after doing all the available tweaking to get it personalized for my usages. I do not jailbreak, no need. It's not important enough in my life to super tweak a freaking phone. It's just a phone. A very informative and useful phone (weather on a trip or bike ride, mileage and guidance to places I'm not familiar with, etc). But still just a damned phone.
I have several computers to be strict about, if in the mood (Linux, Windows, Mac). But the phone... is just a phone. :o)
36 • @30, @33 phones (by Mr. Moto on 2023-10-11 02:23:55 GMT from Japan)
@30- "don't nag me to enable features, they don't display ads" My phones don't do that either. Like a good Linux user, I set up my phone to my liking after purchase. Nags can be disabled and ads are displayed by apps the user installs, not by the phone. Granted about telemetry and extra apps. Telemetry can be minimized but not killed. I don't care about telemetry and useless apps just take up a little space.
@33- Price: As @22 Andy Prough noted, cheaper usable phones are readily available on Amazon or Walmart in the US. Here in Asia you risk tripping over the shops and kiosks offering them. To each his own, I guess, but the benefits I derive from a smartphone are too many to list here. I transfer dollars often by logging in with my fingerprint. Done in a couple of minutes. I have apps for my banks in at home and abroad, accessible the same way. I can get step by step directions wherever I'm going, and reserve transportation to and fro should I need. I have a phone number in the US which will ring on my smartphone wherever I am. I'm in my late years, so I wear a smartwatch which monitors my heartbeat for arrhythmia, my blood pressure and even will do a quick ECG, among other things. I take notes on the phone from groceries to meds, and take pictures of things I want to remember. And if I'm out for coffee and want to read the news, there it is. Both phone and watch set me back less than $500, and cost around $2 a month to keep connected outside my home. Your mileage may differ.
37 • CROWZ (by zephyr on 2023-10-11 03:45:08 GMT from United States)
Thank you for your constructive criticism and you are right, these are an area that needs attention. I have yet to experience the boot issues with the older isos with the Debian installer, nor Calamares and new machines, either AMD or Intel. They are tested on both.
Thank you
zephyr
38 • distros come and go but DEBIAN is always there (by Duke on 2023-10-11 04:04:45 GMT from Poland)
@1:
"Nevertheless I recommend Spiral Linux instead of Debian for people who don't like being hassled by rolling-release distros and have "heard" and "seen" too many things. "
I searched for Spiral Linux because I knew someone would be pimping it.
What do you mean "heard" and "seen" too many things regarding Debian? I don't get it. Are there aliens in UFOs developers or something?
I'll pass on Spiral Linux and stick with the source: DEBIAN. Because it's the best and ALWAYS THERE. And I don't like anonymous developers.
39 • @38 (by Duke from Poland) (by Why-oh-why on 2023-10-12 08:11:44 GMT from Netherlands)
@38: "I will pass on Spiral Linux and stick with the source: DEBIAN. Because it's the best and ALWAYS there. And I don't like anonymous developers".
While Debian has been around forever, and may be the best or at least second best choice for a server, it is a pretty suboptimal choice for a desktop PC.
I'm not even sure Debian is a real distribution. It seems more like an archive for abandonware, and its repositories are full of outdated and half-functional software.
Since you dislike products made by anonymous developers, you may want to reconsider using anything Linux-related, because basically everything is made by anonymous developers.
Debian is essentially a Linux kernel and software developed (or at least largely controlled) by RedHat, plus the world's largest software archive, repackaged on a stack of DVDs for every platform imaginable.
Debian is not a developer, it's just a collector and repackager. When we talk about the "best" desktop Linux, only Fedora might partially deserve that title.
40 • Devuan (by rhtoras on 2023-10-12 13:57:21 GMT from Greece)
I like how you mention Crowz which is based on Devuan. If people have no luck with various Devuan Derivatives they can go with Refracta. The most complete experience for those don't like for some weird reason Vanilla Devuan.
I wish Distrowatch is going to add Miyo Linux too or even better FluXuan which is a very nice experience for those prefer fluxbox.
Last but not least... Please add VX linux based on Void linux. It's a shame not to mention this. People like how to learn new distros.
41 • @9 • Murena's not so wide horizon (by Christian on 2023-10-13 14:32:24 GMT from Luxembourg)
@9 • Murena's not so wide horizon (by pass on 2023-10-09 11:11:24 GMT from Italy)
Murena should first grant every smartphone is entitled to receive its OS, instead of selling its own ones.
/e/OS is currently available for more than
245 Smartphones Models
I tried murena / e.os on a bunch of Samsungs and Xiaomis, since then I'm quite happy with them ...
https://e.foundation/get-started/
Number of Comments: 41
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| • Issue 1099 (2024-12-02): AnduinOS 1.0.1, measuring RAM usage, SUSE continues rebranding efforts, UBports prepares for next major version, Murena offering non-NFC phone |
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| • Issue 1078 (2024-07-08): Changing init software, server machines running desktop environments, OpenSSH vulnerability patched, Peppermint launches new edition, HardenedBSD updates ports |
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| • Issue 1072 (2024-05-27): Manjaro 24.0, comparing init software, OpenBSD ports Plasma 6, Arch community debates mirror requirements, ThinOS to upgrade its FreeBSD core |
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| • Issue 1069 (2024-05-06): Ubuntu 24.04, installing packages in alternative locations, systemd creates sudo alternative, Mint encourages XApps collaboration, FreeBSD publishes quarterly update |
| • Issue 1068 (2024-04-29): Fedora 40, transforming one distro into another, Debian elects new Project Leader, Red Hat extends support cycle, Emmabuntus adds accessibility features, Canonical's new security features |
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| • Issue 1066 (2024-04-15): Fun projects to do with the Raspberry Pi and PinePhone, installing new software on fixed-release distributions, improving GNOME Terminal performance, Mint testing new repository mirrors, Gentoo becomes a Software In the Public Interest project |
| • Issue 1065 (2024-04-08): Dr.Parted Live 24.03, answering questions about the xz exploit, Linux Mint to ship HWE kernel, AlmaLinux patches flaw ahead of upstream Red Hat, Calculate changes release model |
| • Issue 1064 (2024-04-01): NixOS 23.11, the status of Hurd, liblzma compromised upstream, FreeBSD Foundation focuses on improving wireless networking, Ubuntu Pro offers 12 years of support |
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| • Issue 1062 (2024-03-18): KDE neon 20240304, changing file permissions, Canonical turns 20, Pop!_OS creates new software centre, openSUSE packages Plasma 6 |
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| • Issue 1060 (2024-03-04): AV Linux MX-23.1, bootstrapping a network connection, key OpenBSD features, Qubes certifies new hardware, LXQt and Plasma migrate to Qt 6 |
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| • Issue 1058 (2024-02-19): Drauger OS 7.6, how much disk space to allocate, System76 prepares to launch COSMIC desktop, UBports changes its version scheme, TrueNAS to offer faster deduplication |
| • Issue 1057 (2024-02-12): Adelie Linux 1.0 Beta, rolling release vs fixed for a smoother experience, Debian working on 2038 bug, elementary OS to split applications from base system updates, Fedora announces Atomic Desktops |
| • Issue 1056 (2024-02-05): wattOS R13, the various write speeds of ISO writing tools, DSL returns, Mint faces Wayland challenges, HardenedBSD blocks foreign USB devices, Gentoo publishes new repository, Linux distros patch glibc flaw |
| • Issue 1055 (2024-01-29): CNIX OS 231204, distributions patching packages the most, Gentoo team presents ongoing work, UBports introduces connectivity and battery improvements, interview with Haiku developer |
| • Issue 1054 (2024-01-22): Solus 4.5, comparing dd and cp when writing ISO files, openSUSE plans new major Leap version, XeroLinux shutting down, HardenedBSD changes its build schedule |
| • Issue 1053 (2024-01-15): Linux AI voice assistants, some distributions running hotter than others, UBports talks about coming changes, Qubes certifies StarBook laptops, Asahi Linux improves energy savings |
| • Issue 1052 (2024-01-08): OpenMandriva Lx 5.0, keeping shell commands running when theterminal closes, Mint upgrades Edge kernel, Vanilla OS plans big changes, Canonical working to make Snap more cross-platform |
| • Issue 1051 (2024-01-01): Favourite distros of 2023, reloading shell settings, Asahi Linux releases Fedora remix, Gentoo offers binary packages, openSUSE provides full disk encryption |
| • Issue 1050 (2023-12-18): rlxos 2023.11, renaming files and opening terminal windows in specific directories, TrueNAS publishes ZFS fixes, Debian publishes delayed install media, Haiku polishes desktop experience |
| • Issue 1049 (2023-12-11): Lernstick 12, alternatives to WINE, openSUSE updates its branding, Mint unveils new features, Lubuntu team plans for 24.04 |
| • Issue 1048 (2023-12-04): openSUSE MicroOS, the transition from X11 to Wayland, Red Hat phasing out X11 packages, UBports making mobile development easier |
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| • Issue 1045 (2023-11-13): Fedora 39, how to trust software packages, ReactOS booting with UEFI, elementary OS plans to default to Wayland, Mir gaining ability to split work across video cards |
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LliureX
LliureX is a project of the Council of Culture, Education and Sport at the Municipality of Valencia, Spain. The LliureX distribution is an Edubuntu-based live and installation DVD with support for the Valencian and Spanish languages. It is intended as an operating system for educational institutions in the Valencia region. LliureX uses exclusively free software and is distributed free of charge.
Status: Active
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| TUXEDO |
TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite
Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
Learn more about our full service package and all benefits from buying at TUXEDO.
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| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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