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1 • musl (by Guido on 2023-08-28 01:05:20 GMT from Philippines)
I use an Arch derivative. Musl can be installed from the official repositories along with a kernel header. But I don't use it.
2 • Void review question (by Heinrich on 2023-08-28 01:21:34 GMT from United States)
Nice review as always, Jesse. I do have one question. You compared the RAM usage of Xfce *on Void* to typical RAM usage of KDE and Gnome *in general*. I’m curious about how the RAM usage of Xfce *on Void* to typical RAM usage on other distros. That would give me more insight into how lightweight Void is compared to other distributions.
3 • musl (by Jay on 2023-08-28 01:11:31 GMT from Finland)
I'm aware some apps work only with glibc, but I really appreciate that Alpine Linux doesn't. (Ditto for its lack of systemd.)
Alpine is just large enough to be useful (and yes, you can use it with a few WMs) and it strikes a good balance with a lean towards those that prefer CLIs.
Alpine works on most hardware one could use for network appliance projects. Alpine in Docker? It's tiny compared to all the things stuffed into most bloated, 'modern' distros.
"Small. Simple. Secure." works for me.
4 • Memory usage (by Jesse on 2023-08-28 01:59:36 GMT from Canada)
@2: "You compared the RAM usage of Xfce *on Void* to typical RAM usage of KDE and Gnome *in general*. I’m curious about how the RAM usage of Xfce *on Void* to typical RAM usage on other distros. That would give me more insight into how lightweight Void is compared to other distributions."
Fair point. RAM usage with Xfce tends to vary a lot in my experience across different distributions. Usually in the range of 400MB to 650MB. Void is close to the lighter end of the spectrum when it comes to Xfce, just over 400MB. So it's light, but not unusually light in memory when running Xfce.
5 • Void/musl (by Zaphod on 2023-08-28 03:41:54 GMT from United States)
I run Void with Musl on two machines. One is a raspberry pi 4 which runs as a headless server, and the other is a Dell Inspiration having laptop. I've never found Musl limiting in any way. On the contrary, I maintain a couple of applications that target Gnome and I'm perfectly able to run a full Gnome desktop with Wayland Ott of the box. I also use Steam on this machine via flatpak.
Nobody should be afraid to try musl based distos out. Both Void and Alpine provide a great experience and have a surprisingly large amount of software in their repositories, especially considering how people always keep saying that not all software is compatible with Musl. From what I've seen, about 95% of the time software complex and runs with Musl with zero changes to the source code. I can only surprise that people are referring to proprietary software, which I frankly am not interested in anyway.
6 • In the void and Runit, antiX 23 stable Runit init, now available (by Hank on 2023-08-28 05:55:25 GMT from France)
As noted in Void review
Anyone who tries a system which uses runit will have a jaw dropping experience.
Fast booting, near instant shutdown and easily controlled services.
Absolutly trashes system d in all respects and in daily productive usage goes on to prove the supposed sysd advantages only exist in the fantasy of the deluded....
Systems, tested Void, daily driver antiX with runit replacing the traditional Sysv which is also available.
After using several Beta versions I am now totally hooked on antiX23, A stable version is now available for download.
Short announcement and link to ISO in the helpful forum.
7 • xbps graphical package manager (by Miro on 2023-08-28 06:35:31 GMT from Slovakia)
There is a graphical front-end for xbps called octoxbps.
8 • Void Linux (by Microlinux on 2023-08-28 06:55:58 GMT from Austria)
I've been fiddling with Void for the past two months, and as a long-time Linux user (since Slackware 7.1) I must say I'm very (!) impressed. Tools and package repository are clean and fast, documentation is well-written and to the point. I've configured a custom-tailored desktop using a minimal Void, X11 and KDE, and I have yet to see another Linux distribution that's as fast and as clean. Booting is incredibly fast thanks to runit, shutting the thing down happens in a second (no "stop jobs" here).
The only point where Void could improve is online help. There's no mailing list and no forum, so you have to do with the corresponding IRC channel, Subreddit or GitHub discussion thread, which means no searchable archives. On the plus side, questions get answered rather quickly, and most Void users know their stuff.
I can only recommend this nifty little distribution.
9 • Void (by Devlin7 on 2023-08-28 07:29:24 GMT from New Zealand)
I am happy to say I have had 4 battles with Void , I have come back to win 3. It is light, fast and stable but I keep running into little road blocks. My loss has been xdg open of a torrent from Chrome. Works just fine on every other distro I have played with but Void and Chrome won't play nicely regardless of whether I use flatpak Chrome or from the source. Firefox works just fine with Void. Tried all the tips on the forums but haven't found the answer yet. Void is definitely light, an Enlightenment desktop comes in at 190Mb. Same setup on Nutyx is 220Mb and lately 320Mb on Arch. The Installation like Nutyx is super easy even if it is text based, it makes some of the GUI installers look sluggish for all the advancements in looks. The lack of a forum is a little offputting but there are distros with forums and no active people answering question. I have given up again for now but I am sure Void will be back.
10 • Void (by tomas on 2023-08-28 08:38:27 GMT from Czechia)
Thank you for the review of Void.
I will try it again though my previous trials ended by apparently not being one of the "people with a bit of Linux experience".
There is just one thing that I would like to know: Distrowatch displays Cinnamon, Enlightenment, GNOME, LXDE, LXQt, MATE, Xfce as the available Desktops for Void, but only a Xfce live image can be downloaded and on the manual pages I have found only GNOME and KDE (not listed on Distrowatch).
11 • memory usage on Linux (by Liviu on 2023-08-28 09:08:05 GMT from United Kingdom)
Just want to thank you for the clear explanation of memory usage on Linux.
12 • Void (by Hoos on 2023-08-28 09:13:09 GMT from Singapore)
My Void install with Cinnamon has been running for years. It's certainly fast and stable.
That said, I've kept only to what is in the official repos and 1 flatpak. I have never checked out xbps-src.
About the only significant thing missing for me on Void is that I have to use the openvpn files on network manager to operate my VPN, instead of relying on the VPN client (because systemd).
13 • musl (by James on 2023-08-28 10:17:46 GMT from United States)
musl is provided in the repository, but not installed our used.
14 • runit (by Otto on 2023-08-28 12:58:09 GMT from Czechia)
I wonder if runit is actively developed. While I found no release date on its website, the downloadable version is 2.1.2, which, if memory serves, the same that has been offered for many years now. Did I miss something?
15 • Types of memory usage and running Linux on older computers (by Geo on 2023-08-28 13:11:37 GMT from Canada)
I quite baffled that "some Linux distributions" does not include LegacyOS, since old computers are precisely what Legacy is designed for.
16 • Void Linux is absolutely fantastic! (by Void user on 2023-08-28 15:50:58 GMT from Finland)
Void Linux is absolutely fantastic!
Not fork or copy of copy another copy!
It is fast, minimal, configurable rolling release unique distro.
I am using Void Linux since 2016. Not single freeze, hanging, breaking changes, slowing down.
No bloatware or adware s*it. It has small software repository but all needed can be found there. More packages more security risk in my opinion.
sytemd free. Runit is amasing. It works out of the box. It is functional, fast, secure.
My setup is as main distro.
LUKS, DOH with tor, nftables, qtile and dwm.
I highly recommend Void Linux. Thank you to Void developers for their awesome beautiful unique distro!
17 • Void Linux (by void_kde on 2023-08-28 16:02:48 GMT from Brazil)
@14 - The most recent packages in my /var/cache/xbps/ are from April, 13 & 14, this year:
runit-2.1.2_15.x86_64.xbps
runit-void-20230413_1.x86_64.xbps
RAM usage 10 minutes uptime (iddle), according to /proc/meminfo = [ MemTotal - MemAvailable ], all distros with KDE without PIM:
Void 878 MiB
PCLinuxOS 921 MiB
Slackware 940 MiB
MX Linux 940 MiB
Redcore 1,001 MiB
Manjaro 1,031 MiB
Neon 1,049 MiB
Arch 1,059 MiB
Mageia 1,068 MiB
Fedora 1,139 MiB
openSUSE 1,210 MiB
Debian 1,211 MiB
18 • musl (by nsp0323 on 2023-08-28 19:11:33 GMT from Sweden)
Void Linux + musl-libc user since early 2017. "Fresh" install using the October 2017 iso, running until today without an itch. Initially, base install + AwesomeWM, replaced by FrankenWM which, in-turn was replaced by LeftWM. Same install, SSD moved to a newer laptop in 2018 with a minor fstab and wpa-supplicant config change. Soon, 6 years rolling :)
19 • Void : the NetBSD of Linux. (by Gerard Lally on 2023-08-28 22:55:05 GMT from Ireland)
Regarding Void, it doesn't surprise me that it took a NetBSD developer to create it. Intelligence is the difference between BSD and Linux. Linux, of course, has all the hardware support, but the design and ideas clearly show the BSD pedigree.
20 • Octoxbps (by vornan19 on 2023-08-29 01:22:21 GMT from Thailand)
Re: 7
Yes there is Octoxbps but it is not comparable to the Ubuntu Software GUI.
It is buggy, incomplete and unmaintained.
Void is great though.
21 • void-packages (by Vinfall on 2023-08-29 01:52:45 GMT from Hong Kong)
@14: You can check that in void-packages repo on GitHub, i.e. https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/commits/master/srcpkgs/runit-void/template and https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/blob/master/srcpkgs/runit/template.
This is one thing I like personally as it's really easy to get involved. It's yet rather easy to create a PKGBUILD but AUR is unofficial in soul. When your PR to void-packages is merged, it would become available to every Void users after next build & sync.
From void-packages, Void now has 14000+ pkgs in total while running `apt list | wc -l` on Devuan ceres returns 70333. It seems quite small but is larger than Arch/Manjaro for me. I have to use AUR or pip to install many Python packages on Manjaro and in Void there is usually a pkg already.
22 • musl (by Vukota on 2023-08-29 06:44:16 GMT from Serbia)
Good luck to anyone running musl based distro in production environment. I had some very nasty bugs related to it, compared to glibc. I will wait couple years before I try it again.
23 • Void (by Name (mandatory) on 2023-08-29 06:45:08 GMT from Slovenia)
I'm one of the "too noob for Void". I was using it, but when I ran into some problems, I was struggling. I also needed some packages that others were building by themselves and I didn't know how to.
For this reason I switched, but I understand, the reason is lack of my knowledge, not Void's fault. Since I like runit, one of my computers has antiX with runit.
I tried Void when there was a forum and I'm sad, it does not exist any more. I hope this is not a bad sign. I hope Void prosper and become used by more users. Linux need unique and innovative distributions, Linux need variety. This nudge and push into the ways, windows is operating, (systemd), bothers me.
24 • Void mea culpae, @ 23 (by El Gordo on 2023-08-29 12:15:18 GMT from Mexico)
"I was using it, but when I ran into some problems, I was struggling. but I understand, the reason is lack of my knowledge, not Void's fault."
I'm getting some strong cult vibes around this distro.
25 • Cult Vibes around Void (by Hank on 2023-08-29 12:52:01 GMT from Germany)
Void is not a cult, it needs some knowledge and perseverance, or some learning, that's all. Same goes for Arch or BSD Free BSD, building a system from antiX minimal or base install same goes.
26 • Areas for Void to improve (by Matt on 2023-08-29 13:03:41 GMT from United States)
First off, I think Void is incredible and deserves to be recognized by more people. It is outstanding for what it aims to be: a minimalist distro for advanced users. Does that make me a cult member? Maybe so, but...
I used Void for some time, but I ended up switching back to Debian due to commercial packages I needed that were in deb format.
Areas where Void can be improved:
1) Installer that allows encrypted disk partitions. If you use the default Void installer, it is blazing fast and simple. If you want to encrypt your hard drive, however, installation is slow and complicated. It involves manually setting up each partition and mount point, then doing installation in a chroot environment.
The fastest way I found to get an encrypted install is to use to default Void installer to install everything on a smallish root partition with no separated swap and leave a bunch of free disk space. After the fast install, manually set up the free disk space as an encrypted volume group with swap and home volumes inside it. After that, move home to its new home and activate the encrypted swap.
2) Some easier way to use commercial deb or rpm packages. Some of these are available as flatpaks, but those don't always work. Some are available as restricted/non-free packages in xbps-src, but those sometimes have quirks that affect functionality for some reason.
If you want an example of this, try installing Zoom on void. It works until you try to resister with SSO. I found no way to get Zoom SSO login to work on Void.
3) Texlive. This probably doesn't affect very many people, but if you use Texlive with a lot of extras, you have to use Texlive's internal package manager. It is very very slow. It takes hours to set up. Also, my preferred LaTex and BibTex editors (Kile and Kbibtex) are not available in Void, so I had to compile them from source. The whole process can be done in minutes on Debian.
27 • Void, perhaps to try again (by Otis on 2023-08-29 16:17:32 GMT from United States)
I've been in Linuxland for decades, and yet shied away from Void back in '21 when all I read was the title of a review at OSNews: "Excellent distro for advanced Linux Users" or some such wording. I thought for sure it was about compiling and all per Gentoo.
Today's write-up by the venerable Jesse has me getting out my Linux laptop and going at it head on, as my command line skills are fine.
I'm so SO glad we're talking about a great non-systemd distro's great points, along with stated improvement of the project as time goes by.
Great info (as often) right here in this comments area as we see that runit is certainly being developed, and that RAM usage by Void is amazing as compared to several other popular distros.
28 • Void (by debian_rules on 2023-08-29 16:18:41 GMT from United Kingdom)
I agree, Void is an incredible gem, but Debian rules them all.
For all complaining that Void is difficult to install and setup. Well, first do your homework, it's your problem not Void's one. The reword is a great one. Otherwise, eat your usual food and keep calm.
I am in between of what is best for me - the notorious stability of Debian or the shiny things I can get faster by running Void rolling. Cheers.
29 • Alternatives qTox dpkg nix docker (by Debian Arch Refugee on 2023-08-29 18:41:02 GMT from United States)
Run qTox. Zoom is a horror:
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2020/04/security_and_pr_1.html
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2023/08/zoom-can-spy-on-your-calls-and-use-the-conversation-to-train-ai-but-says-that-it-wont.html
Cautions aside, Void can run Zoom with SSO as a Docker image:
https://github.com/mdouchement/docker-zoom-us
Void includes package managers from nix and Debian. I've installed .debs with Void's dpkg. This method needs firm hand-holding. It can involve manual creation of missing folders, logs, and/or user accounts from Debian that the .deb assumes. Nix packages might work better on Void. However VM machinery like Docker or Flatpak is the proper way to go.
Debian always frustrated me with hollow claims of stability excusing stale package versions. I find Void, and musl particularly, vastly more stable. I no longer yell at the ceiling why Debian won't just build the latest versions of everything. It's been many years. I've never looked back. I am so happy to be free of Debian. Upstream software teams are always fixing bugs, but good luck getting Debian to roll their fixes out in a calendar year.
The one place where stable means something is the Linux kernel, because it's so massive with so many devs. Kernel rolling gives Arch 90% of its instability. Debian won't tell you its dirty secret: Debian gets 90% of its alleged stability from kernel caution. Unlike Arch, Void treats Linux kernels with care. Void can run the very latest kernel if you want it, but defaults to a conservative point release, not to say LTS, which you may install too. So Void lies on the sweet spot of kernel maintenance.
Rolling or not, Void has packaging issues. Packages can sit stale/orphaned for months. Void lacks Arch's flagging. Forget forums, what Void needs is a staleness flag on every package that anyone can click without github. So for instance,
mercurylang 22.01.3 ... should be at 22.01.7
pam-mount 2.16 ... should be at 2.20
new homepage ... https://inai.de/projects/pam_mount/
pam_rundir 1.0.0 ... should be forked
upstream is waaaay too slow on officially tagged releases
could use Artix fork now at 1.2.0 ...
https://gitea.artixlinux.org/artix/pam_rundir/commits/tag/v1.2.0
gnome-maps missing dep ... requires libsecret or will not launch
Void also has a firm policy against serious web browser alternatives. If someone would volunteer package maintenance, Void might budge, but I'm not sure. I think several people have tried. What it will probably take is someone to launch an unofficial public repo just for alt browsers. Don't ask permission. Now I run LibreWolf App Image on Void glibc without trouble. I have run Flatpaks on Void too. Brave browser and LibreOffice did OK as Flatpaks, even on musl. (Void has LibreOffice, I just ran the Flatpak for an experiment.)
I recently tried to install Flatpak into nonstandard folder locations, distro-independence being the goal. My many attempts did not fly. It could be Flatpak design flaws or Void issues, or both. I played with all the env vars and followed Flatpak docs to the letter. My advice: let Void use whatever baked-in assumptions Flatpak wants. I had no issues with Flatpak on Void using Flatpak's default setup. I suspect Flatpak just doesn't respect XDG or its own env vars as well as advertised.
If I had to leave Void, I would move to Artix, which has full choice of non-systemd init system for all its packages, as I read it. Void forces runit, but choice is nice. You can install s6 on Void, but then must roll your own service mods. Artix is a bit more attentive to end users as well, e.g., offering regular spins of the major desktops, which Void only does once every few years.
One of the more interesting security distros is Split Linux, based on Void musl, in fact very closely. It's really more of a "spin" than its own distro.
30 • Running PostmarketOS, which uses musl C (by Elcaset on 2023-08-30 01:02:05 GMT from United States)
I'm running PostmarketOS on a Pinephone, & it uses musl C. I put off installing PostmarketOS for a long time, because it looked like a very steep learning curve. But, it turns out that, on some devices, it's quite easy to install. It's so fast, that it makes the Pinephone's slow hardware usable!
31 • @29 Debian (by Vic on 2023-08-30 13:09:13 GMT from Brazil)
Debian is fine when using the "testing" repository, but I agree that Debian stable is a unfixable buggy mess. Software simply won´t get bug fixes because it is a "stable" distro. I would call it "frozen", not "stable".
I think the Debian team should promote "testing" as the standard version, and keep "stable" to specific uses (i.e. servers).
32 • @2 & @4 Void review question (by Heinrich from United States) (by Kato San on 2023-08-30 19:18:05 GMT from Japan)
@2 & @4: "You compared the RAM usage of Xfce *on Void* to typical RAM usage of KDE and Gnome *in general*." I’m curious about how the RAM usage of Xfce *on Void* to typical RAM usage on other distros. That would give me more insight into how lightweight Void is compared to other distributions."
Bodhi Enlightenment ("Moksha") aprox. 230 MB; Fedora 38 LXDE aprox. 340 MB; Salix Xfce, aprox. 330 MB; and Porteus 5.0 Gnome & KDE, aprox. 490 MB.
antiX 23 zzzFM aprox. 400 MB; MiniOS 3.2 Fluxbox aprox. 600 MB; Ubuntu 22.04 Gnome 770 MB; MX-23 Xfce 870 MB.
Ubuntu 22.04 Server with Xorg and DWM, aprox. 200 MB.
33 • @23 (by Name (mandatory) from Slovenia) (by Kato San on 2023-08-30 19:44:08 GMT from Japan)
"Linux need unique and innovative distributions, Linux need variety."
What Linux needs is to get bought by one big company, which could make a usable OS out of it.
As is, we get 300 "crapstributions" and not a single one that works as it should.
And it needs a software cleanup, as 90 % of it is a pile of corpses.
Basically, most of what people need is unmaintained.
Everything is kind of half-functional, if at all.
34 • @33 (by Werewolfc on 2023-08-31 08:04:50 GMT from Germany)
I (partially) agree with Kato. For Linux to be mainstream in "public" space - I mean regular, not tech savvy Joe, it has to have consistence and be "better than windows".
Here's my rant:
1. it has to be fast and stable (booting and also in operating): many don't care if they are using systemD, runinit, blackPandaFur, Xorg, Wyland, MarioLand.... they want they system running as better and fast as possible.
2. the choice is bad: regular users don't need 30 desktops, 100 wallpaper applications... they need only one functional, easy to use, familiar desktop.
3. drivers need to work out of the box.. or offer easy way to fix them: Linux is lagging behind of that.
4. rolling release and also "stable way" seems not to be alternatives: rolling style increases the chance to screw your system, and even "delaying" Manjaro style the update seems not to work. Some are complaining that debian's stable style is not also working (bug fixing). I know that FreeBSD has an update system which allows you to update only the "system space" app... and the "user space" app are left alone, and vice-versa. (could that be the solution?)
5. popular apps need to be available pkg or binary blobs: many regulars don't care about the FreeSoftware and open source ideology : they need a way to do what they want.
6. gaming : a lot of progress has been made... but I see that there is a lot to do.
7. UX + looks and feel tend to get crazy in the Linux desktop: too many (crappy, incomplete) themes, icons, etc many of those created from passion (kudos) but not "ship it in a product" ready. Some DE have to many options to basically change everything possible (I'm looking at you XFCE).
I know, THE CHOICE is at the heart of the FSF and open source community, but sometimes too much is ... just too much.
8. Distro forking can be a good thing... but also means splitting the resources, which can mean lower quality.
9. Official support : like offline help files (in general).
So, if some company wanna do business on Linux desktop, they need money to put into it... and they need to make money out of it. Selling LinuxDesktop retail packages (not subscription) have to be at reasonable prices for the users. And they also have to support the upstream projects that are being used in their distro.
Subscription is no go imo.
Some are trying to bring Linux to mainstream (RH, Canonical, Manjaro...) but the
higher fees for support make LinuxDestop even more repulsive. (+I don't like the direction nor the DE the Ubuntu is heading to)
So, until someone/some company makes Linux more "Windows like", Linux will still be a "labor of love" created and used by the passionate ones period. (I'm not talking about production nor IT developers).
I'm an regular Joe, with medium Linux knowledge, but not a daily Linux user.
35 • yikes the linux landscape problems (by bert on 2023-09-01 04:00:38 GMT from New Zealand)
@33 @34 - in many ways I have to agree. So let the rant season continue...
If you look at just the top 4 or 5 distros on DW and ignore the 1000+ others (where the quality dives off a cliff), you still end up with a confusing set of mismatched features, incomplete package sets, etc.
Take couple of simple examples. Of the top 5, _only_ Mint sets up printers by itself. The others, especially in the Arch family, fight you that you wish to scream, die, or walk away.
Joe Public user wants to make a nice slideshow of their pictures. For many years, Photofilmstrip has the Ken Burns effect and has worked perfectly. Any distro on the Debian side, has it in the repos - easily done. Arch, nope - go build it, which fails, fails, fails.
Debian and downstream are infested with a font for every single village across ALL of Asia. We cannot physically be in all those places, fonts should be installed that are appropriate to the locale. Maybe even an option in Calamares installer? And talking of fonts, _only_ Zorin do the work of providing _and_ configuring metric compatible alternatives to the proprietary stuff.
36 • Strange... (by Friar Tux on 2023-09-01 04:14:27 GMT from Canada)
@32, @33, @34 I find it strange how people can rant and rave about how bad Linux is, while noobies like me, who have switched over from MSWindows find ourselves with a perfect, usable, operating system that functions far, far better than said MSWindows. In the past 7 years, I have never had a single glitch or issue with my Linux. I cannot say the same for MSWindows, which first of all forced a one hour upgrade onto MY laptop in the middle of my work. It then did a half hour update. And as if that wasn't enough it also loaded ads into my start menu, AND tried to force me to sign up for some Microsoft account. How is this better than Linux, which just sits on my laptop, lets me do me work in peace and OFFERS me updates and upgrades, but waits for ME to initiate them? And these said updates and upgrades, at the very most, have taken only about 1 or 2 minutes. (Yes, I time them, just for fun.)
The points @34 makes either vary from user to user, are personal opinions that also vary from user to user, and actually show the diversity of Linux, which I find to be its strength. No, Linux may not have taken over the world to replace MSWindows, BUT, I appreciate that it is there for those of us that need it to get stuff done. I, for one, love it and will never go back to dysfunctional MSWindows.
37 • @36 - Strange... (by Friar Tux from Canada) (by Kato San on 2023-09-01 09:56:42 GMT from Japan)
"@32, @33, @34 I find it strange how people can rant and rave about how bad Linux is, while noobies like me, who have switched over from MSWindows find ourselves with a perfect, usable, operating system that functions far, far better than said MSWindows."
"The points @34 makes either vary from user to user, are personal opinions that also vary from user to user, and actually show the diversity of Linux, which I find to be its strength."
This isn't really correct.
What varies is not the Linux landscape's weaknesses but the users' ability to notice those issues.
Users' demands and experience with other OS and applications play a role only in that someone with low demands, who only uses Firefox and Telegram, won't be able to notice Gimp issues, as it is never using it, and if it has no experience with Affinity Photo or Adobe Photoshop, it has nothing to compare it to—just as an example.
Regular Joe does not care for the OS or ideology, but it cares that the PC (== applications!) does what it needs it for.
I'll give you only a few examples.
A couple of years ago, someone with Linux Mint—I think it was 18 at the time—wanted to use Astro, a horoscope-making program. It installed fine, but a couple of months later, the new Mint version came out, and the "devil's cycle" started. If one upgraded Mint, Astro would quit working; if one wanted a working application, one couldn't upgrade the OS. Currently, it seems to be unmaintained.
https://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2018/217/OpenAstro
Shutter was once the best screenshot-making tool that could not only make screenshots but also add annotations and capture a complete website. It worked well for awhile, until the unmaintained gnome-web-photo library didn't get deprecated—so, no more website capture.
Than Wayland emerged, and all Shutther was able to capture was: https://postimg.cc/SJgX5hcb
https://shutter-project.org/
Recently, a friend of mine installed Ubuntu 22.04 and called me to help him install Gimp. One click in Software, one would think, but in that case, resynthesizer won't get installed, and that IS the killer feature and THE REASON to install it all. Long story short, resynthesizer was a school project of a student, was implemented as a plugin in Gimp, is unmaintained, of course, and relies on Python 2, which is deprecated and was removed from Ubuntu repositories.
There are some workarounds, the easiest being using a "Gimp Launcher with Python2" AppImage. One needs the application to start the application.
https://www.gimp-forum.net/Thread-resynthesizer-gimp-python-Linux-ubuntu-20-04-all-files-to-install
https://github.com/TasMania17/Gimp-Appimages-Made-From-Debs/releases
Recently, I tried to install Fedora 38 on one PC with an MSI mainboard, but it refused to boot. Fedora 36 worked fine on the same motherboard...
https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/install-media-dont-boot-in-uefi-mode-on-certain-motherboards/71376
If I start Bodhi Linux, I find a few issues in the first 3 minutes. Jagged boot logo to start with, cut-off top and bottom of the login screen icons, "the hole" on the taskbar, Thunar that can't keep its layout, faulty and plain ugly icons (distorted, with artifacts, etc.), mixed monochrome and colored icons, etc.
Speaking of that very minimal software selection that I found on Bodhy 7.0 rc, it makes no sense at all. It shipped with Xarchiver (which has been broken for years), Thunar (which has been broken for years, just like the Xfce taskbar), and an unmaintained Leafpad. Enlightenment is not a complete DE, but it has its own file manager (EFL), text editor (Ecrire), and music player (Rage), along with some monitoring tools, and if it has to be an Enlightenment without Enlightenment applications, why not PCManFM, Engrampa, and L3afpad?
The Linux landscape is broken, and generally, it is getting worse instead of better, despite a few bright spots.
38 • still strange. (by Friar Tux on 2023-09-01 13:38:37 GMT from Canada)
@37 (Kato) And yet,again, here I am relatively new to Linux, having used Linux exclusively in the last 7 years and never having an issue. As with any other product, if something doesn't work, I find a product that does. With the amount of apps and programs in the Linux landscape there is always something that does the job quite well. Maybe it's my "newness" to Linux, but I've yet to find any issues. Upgrades and up dated go smoothly and don't break things, Installing and removing software presents no issues. And just to be fair, I have been retired for the past ten years. I start my laptop up every morning at 6:30 and shut it down every evening at 10:30. I do everything on this machine. It is my library, cook book, communication device with my family, I do my writing on it, my artwork, shopping, bill paying, games, and much, much more. It is important, to me, that it works flawlessly. Windows could not do it. Apple products were way too expensive for what you get. Linux was perfect - in every way. All the software I use, for the various things I need to do, works flawlessly. So, for now, this is where I stay.
Number of Comments: 38
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Neat-GNU/Linux
Neat-GNU/Linux was going to be like any other GNU/Linux distribution with a couple of differences, the most notable was the installation procedure, but also by keeping the number of packages at a minimum, hence the name; Neat. The installation was not done by copying precompiled packages but by actually compiling packages from source and then install them to the system. By making the list of software as small as possible we hope to create a system that was easy to maintain, that requires little space on the hard drive(s) but at the same time was fully functional. We will also try to include configuration scripts for some administrative tasks, like setting up the network, to make it easier to administrate. Update: As of December 2002, the Neat GNU/Linux distribution was no longer available.
Status: Discontinued
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