 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 1031, 7 August 2023 |
Welcome to this year's 32nd issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
A lot of Linux distributions grow from of the vision of one developer, one person who wants to try something different and whose approach is appealing enough to attract the attention of other developers and users. Over a long enough time line, most distributions lose their original creator - sometimes due to retirement, the siren song of another project, or death. When this happens most Linux distributions fade away into digital history while others change hands, outliving the contributions of their creator. This week we begin with a look at Peppermint OS, a distribution which lives on despite the untimely passing of its founder. Peppermint has changed under its new management and Jeff Siegel explores how the distribution is working these days. Then, in our News section, we talk about one of the most active Alpine Linux package maintainers leaving the project. We also talk about XFS, a popular filesystem, losing its current maintainer and discuss plans for the next release of Linux Mint Debian Edition. Plus we share news that Asahi Linux is partnering with Fedora to run Linux on Apple hardware. Our Questions and Answers column this week talks about protecting files from being changed or overwritten, even when they are set to be read-only. Do you do anything to protect your files from change and destruction? Let us know in the Opinion Poll. Plus we are pleased to share the releases of the past week and list the torrents we are seeding. We wish you all a fantastic week and happy reading!
Content:
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| Feature Story (By Jeff Siegel) |
Peppermint OS 2023-07-01
Peppermint OS has a long and storied history; it was one of the first low-resource distros that was innovative, looked good, and just worked, and many of us who prefer that style have fond memories of seeing its peppermint candy logo pop up on the screen.
But, as so often happens with small distros, something derailed the project. In this case, Peppermint leader Mark Greaves died, and the distro went nearly three years between releases.
It returned in 2022, with a couple of significant changes - based on Debian and not the Ubuntu family it used before; the Calamares installer; and an Xfce desktop instead of the previous Xfce-LXDE hybrid. The current release, Peppermint OS 2023-07-01, is the second under the new regime.
As such, it wants to continue Greaves' minimalist approach: "Everything you need and nothing you don't." Unfortunately, though the new release tries to do just that, it still has a long way to go after a week or so of testing. This is a buggy, flawed effort, good intentions notwithstanding. Yes, it's still focused on low-resource systems, but it's more like an advanced proof of concept for the new approach than something to use as a daily driver. For instance, why highlight the Snap store if snapd isn't installed by default?
This is not a criticism of the approach. I much prefer minimalist distros; I don't even like using Qt-based music players. But low-resource isn't an excuse for bad execution, and that's the case here. It offers a variety of features that I'd love to see other distros adopt. But if the features are flawed, what's the point?
Getting started
Peppermint offers ARM, 32- and 64-bit installations for both Debian and Devuan. I tested the Debian 64-bit instance, based on Debian 12 and which includes the 6.1 kernel and Xfce 4.18. System requirements remain minimal. Recommended is 4GB of RAM and 32GB of disk space, but minimal is just 1GB of RAM and 10GB of disk. In other words, it might even run on an old 32-bit Asus EEE. The ISO file is only 1.5GB, which compares to 3.4GB for Ubuntu 22.04 and 2.8GB for Mint 21.2 "Cinnamon".
Peppermint OS 2023-07-01 -- The welcome window
(full image size: 683kB, resolution: 1146x879 pixels)
There weren't any problems with a virtual instance on VirtualBox. It loaded and worked as expected, swiftly and nimbly, for the couple of things I tested, and the screen re-sized more or less as it should have. The problems started with installation on my Asus UX31A, which has never balked at any of the other distros I've loaded on it to review here. Installation took more than 30 minutes, when most Linux installations take a few minutes, 10 at the most. This is not only weird -- I'm no fan of Calamares, but it's never that laggy -- but hardly inviting. If it takes that long to install, what else must be wrong?
My guess is that it's a Peppermint repository problem, since I was using the same home WiFi network that I always use and nothing else in the house was having problems. In addition, I saw several other instances of slow or dropped connections during software installation and updates.
Peppermint OS 2023-07-01 -- Setting up site specific browsing with Kumo
(full image size: 669kB, resolution: 1600x900 pixels)
The install typified my testing. Again, Peppermint looked good, was usually quick and easy to use, and its innovations remain impressive. Peppermint's legendary ICE tool, which turned web sites into apps, returns as something called Kumo. Meanwhile, the Peppermint Hub - call it a one-stop shop for settings and essential software, like browsers and media players -- has been expanded and updated.
But, sadly, it's buggy, buggy, buggy.
What's included
Not much, actually, save for basic Xfce apps like Mousepad and Clipman, GNOME Disks, and (oddly) the Plank dock. All is arranged in a basic Xfce layout, with the panel on the bottom, the menu in the lower-left hand corner, and various panel icons - notify, clock, and so forth - on the right side.
So no office suite, no e-mail program, no music player, no photo or imaging app, and no browser. Which, again, is not necessarily a bad idea. If minimal is the goal, then this makes perfect sense. It's much easier to add what you want than to go through a lot of command line this and that deleting what you don't.
Peppermint OS 2023-07-01 -- Browsing suggested packages
(full image size: 999kB, resolution: 1600x900 pixels)
The catch is that it needs to be straightforward to add the necessary software, perform updates, and all the rest. That's what happens when adding "suggested software," like the Parole Media Player (though there is no suggestion for a word processor or office suite). Otherwise, that's not the case:
- Snap. Click on the Snap store in the Peppermint Hub, which seems like the logical thing to do, and an error message says snapd isn't installed. What actually has to be done is to add snapd through the Snap link on Suggested Software in the Hub. The same holds true for Flatpaks and the GNOME Web Store; click on the respective link in Suggested Software to activate the Web Store to use it in the Hub (and know that the GNOME Web Store is just as slow and fussy as always). Minimalism is one thing, but if you're going to offer these options, then include the code to make them work.
- Using AppImageHub is problematical, since some of the entries are dead, some are no longer updated, and some just don't work. So why include it then?
- The xDaily update tool borked the system. The process threw several error messages and then said it had failed with some of the updates. I double-checked using Synaptic, and all seemed to be OK. However, when I tried rebooting - just to be on the safe side - and used the GUI controls, there was another error message and rebooting failed. When I tried each of the three terminals to reboot using the command line, each hung and I had to close them using Task Manager. Finally, I did a hard shutdown, and when I restarted, all seemed to be well.
- Also disappointing was the Kumo web app manager, which seemed to be a step back from the old ICE manager or Mint's current version. It crashed once, and the couple of other times I used it, it didn't show the URL in the box that said URL. There was a blank space, though it did load the site. For some reason, one of its components managed the Nextcloud desktop app. So the first couple of times, it asked me to confirm that I wanted to launch Nextcloud. Then, it just stopped loading the app, and I had to log in to start Nextcloud each time I turned on the computer.
Peppermint OS 2023-07-01 -- The Peppermint Hub
(full image size: 1.1MB, resolution: 1600x900 pixels)
The rest of the distro
The good news is that Xfce 4.18 did what it was supposed to do. It's still the same sturdy, low-resource desktop that many of us appreciate, and seemed a good fit for what Peppermint was trying to do. I was also impressed with the browser feature in the Peppermint Hub, though I was surprised to see Vivaldi excluded when it had GNOME Web/Epiphany and a couple of Qt browsers. Firefox ESR (version 102.13.0) installed without a hitch and ran like the Firefox of blessed memory.
The documentation is also first-rate, both on the Peppermint website and via the Peppermint Hub. It's detailed, covers lots and lots of subjects, and offers more transparency than I'm used to. It not only explains how to do something, but why that choice was made.
Which may be a clue as to what the developers are trying to do here, and that Peppermint is not so much a daily driver as it is an adventure in distro building, the "let's put on a play in the barn" approach. We're all along for the ride, and if there are some rough spots, so be it. We'll have fun fixing them together.
The problem with this, though, is that MX Linux does many of the same things Peppermint is trying to do and also focuses on low-resource hardware. But it's a polished, daily driver effort, and well deserves its spot at the head of the DistroWatch hit parade.
Hopefully, the Peppermint developers will solve many of the problems listed here, and Peppermint can once again take its place among low-resource distros that just work.
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Hardware used for this review
My physical test equipment for this review was an Asus UX31A laptop with the following specifications:
- Processor: Intel Core i5-3317U, 1.7GHz
- Storage: 128GB SSD
- Memory: 4GB of RAM
- Networking: Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6235 802.11 a/b/g/n wireless
- Display: Integrated Intel HD Graphics 4000
When he is not testing out new versions of Linux distributions, Jeff Siegel can be found writing about all things related to wine at Wine Curmudgeon.
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Visitor supplied rating
Peppermint OS has a visitor supplied average rating of: 7.6/10 from 92 review(s).
Have you used Peppermint OS? You can leave your own review of the project on our ratings page.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
Alpine Linux says good-bye to a prolific maintainer, XFS maintainer steps down, Linux Mint plans new releases, Asahi Linux partners with Fedora
The Alpine Linux community may soon face having fewer packages in its repositories or the need to find new package maintainers. Phoronix is reporting one of the more active package maintainers in the Alpine community is stepping down. "Alice 'psykose', who is easily responsible for the highest number of commits per author over the past year, has decided to step down from maintaining her packages. These Alpine aports stats put her at 13,894 commits over the past year. In comparison, the second most prolific packager saw just 2,053 commits... Or put another way, psykose has 6.7x the number of commits as the next packager. The 13.8k commits are also about half of the 26.8k commits seen in total over the past year.
Over the weekend I was alerted to the fact that psykose/nekopsykose has begun dropping maintainership of packages she maintained. All of her recent alpinelinux/aports commits two days ago were removing packages she oversaw. Curious about the situation, I reached out to Alice and she confirmed she has dropped maintenance of anything she maintained and proceeded to lock herself out of the Alpine Linux systems she had access to."
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On the heels of the Alpine Linux news, the Linux kernel currently needs a new maintainer for XFS. Darrick Wong has been maintaining the filesystem kernel code for several years now and has reported feeling burned out from performing too many roles. FOSS Force quotes Wong: "I burned out years ago trying to juggle the roles senior developer, reviewer, tester, triager (crappily), release manager, and (at times) manager liaison. There's enough work here in this one subsystem for a team of 20 FT, but instead we're squeezed to half that. I thought if I could hold on just a bit longer I could help to maintain the focus on long term development to improve the experience for users. I was wrong." Wong has suggested Chandan Babu, a kernel developer with Oracle, as his replacement. Wong has clarified that he will continue to work on XFS, just not as the official kernel maintainer for the filesystem.
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The Linux Mint team maintains two main branches, one based on Ubuntu and a second branch based on Debian. The developers are working on Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE) 6 which will likely be released later this year. The Mint team is also working on a new edition called EDGE which will provide more up to date hardware support via a new kernel. "Work started on LMDE 6. The upcoming version of our Debian-based distribution will be codenamed 'Faye'. It will come with all the features and changes introduced in Linux Mint 21.2. There is no ETA for its release. Once everything is ready we'll take the opportunity to work on additional features and see how much we want to further reduce the gap in functionality between Linux Mint and LMDE. In parallel to LMDE 6 we're also planning to release an EDGE ISO for Linux Mint 21.2. This ISO will feature a kernel 6.2 and make it easier to boot Mint on brand new hardware." The project's newsletter has additional information on the upcoming LMDE release.
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The Asahi Linux project has announced it is partnering with Fedora in an attempt to bring a more complete, polished Linux experience to Apple ARM-powered computers. "The new Asahi Linux flagship distribution will be Fedora Asahi Remix! We're confident that this new flagship will get us much closer to our goal of a polished Linux experience on Apple Silicon, and we hope you will enjoy using it as much as we're enjoying working on it. We're still working out the kinks and making things even better, so we are not quite ready to call this a release yet. We aim to officially release the Fedora Asahi Remix by the end of August 2023. Look forward to many new features, machine support, and more!"
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Preventing a file from being changed
Keeping-things-the-same asks: I have a configuration file that is owned by root that I don't want to be changed. I've set its permissions to be r-------- (400) with chmod, but the file keeps getting overwritten. Is there anything I can do to prevent it from being changed at all?
DistroWatch answers: When a file is set to be read-only it is still possible for the administrator (root) account to edit the file. It may also be possible for other accounts to delete a file and then create a new one with the same name, if they have write access to the directory in which the file is located. In other words, there are ways some accounts and services can get around the read-only nature of a file.
We sometimes see this sort of behaviour where a service is overwriting a read-only file when package updates occur and an old version of a resource or configuration file is overwritten by a new version of the same file. This can be frustrating because it destroys our customizations or, at least, circumvents the intended purpose of having a file set to be read-only.
When read-only permissions (as set by chmod) are not enough to protect your file there are other solutions. One of the more straightforward methods for protecting a file from being removed or changed is to set its filesystem attributes. A filesystem attribute changes key characteristics of the file behind the scenes (at the filesystem level) and can even block root-level attempts to change or delete a file.
File attributes are set with the change attribute (chattr) command. The chattr command accepts a letter representing the attribute we wish to change, followed by the name of the file we want to adjust. For example, to make a file called hello.txt immutable (impossible to edit) we can run the following command:
chattr +i hello.txt
The plus sign indicates we want to add the immutable attribute (i). This prevents us from editing, moving, or removing the file. To later make the file open to changes again we can remove the immutable flag by using the minus sign in front of the "i":
chattr -i hello.txt
Should we wish to see what attributes are currently assigned to a file we can use the list attributes (lsattr) command. For example, here we see a list of all attributes assigned to the file hello.txt:
$ lsattr hello.txt
----i---------e------- hello.txt
In the above example we can see the "i" flag is set, meaning the file is immutable and cannot be changed. The "e" flag indicates extents are used for mapping the file on the disk, a common feature of members of the ext2/3/4 filesystems.
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Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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| Released Last Week |
OPNsense 23.7
OPNsense is a FreeBSD-based specialist operating system designed for firewalls and routers. The project has published version 23.7 which is based on FreeBSD 13.2 and includes OpenVPN group alias support, deferred authentication for OpenVPN, and PHP 8.2. The release announcement offers some insight into changes and tips for migrating: "The Unbound ACL now defaults to accept all traffic and no longer generates automatic entries. This was done to avoid connectivity issues on dynamic address setups -- especially with VPN interfaces. If this is undesirable you can set it to default to block instead and add your manual entries to pass. Dpinger no longer triggers alarms on its own as its mechanism is too simplistic for loss and delay detection as provided by apinger a long time ago. Delay and loss triggers have been fixed and logging was improved. The rc.syshook facility 'monitor' still exists but is only provided for compatibility reasons with existing user scripts. IPsec "tunnel settings" GUI is now deprecated and manual migration to the 'connections' GUI is recommended. An appropriate EoL announcement will be made next year. The new OpenVPN instances pages and API create an independent set of instances more closely following the upstream documentation of OpenVPN."
MX Linux 23
After several beta and release candidate snapshots, the final build of MX Linux 23 has been released. MX Linux 23 is based on Debian 12, uses SysVInit as its default init system and comes with a choice of Xfce, KDE Plasma and Fluxbox desktops: "MX Linux 23 is now available for download. MX Linux 23 is built from Debian 12 'Bookworm' and MX Linux repositories. As in past releases, MX Linux will default to SysVInit but systemd remains an option for installed systems. Updates from RC and beta to final are fully supported. The live boot menus now have a more obvious 'check media' function in the top level menu. The media will be checked and boot will continue if things look good. Major desktop versions: Xfce 4.18, Fluxbox 1.3.7, KDE Plasma 5.27. All releases now include the Orca screen reader and a screen magnifier tool. Fluxbox and Xfce have Magnus screen magnifier and KDE Plasma uses KMag. At this time, due to Debian's Orca packaging, Orca does not appear in the menus, but can be launched manually. In particular, Orca is configurable in KDE's integrated accessibility settings." Continue to the release announcement for further information.
MX Linux 23 - Running the Xfce desktop
(full image size: 1.3MB, resolution: 2560x1600 pixels)
XigmaNAS 13.2.0.5
XigmaNAS, an embedded, open-source NAS (Network-Attached Storage) system based on FreeBSD, has been upgraded to version 13.2.0.5. The new release upgrades the underlying system to FreeBSD 13.2 and discontinues support for the GEOM RAID5 storage module. The major changes include "Upgrade to FreeBSD 13.2-RELEASE-P1; upgrade Netatalk to 3.1.14; upgrade mDNSResponder to 1790.80.10; upgrade devcpu-data-amd to 20230424; upgrade jQuery to 3.7.0; upgrade syncthing to 1.23.5; upgrade lighttpd to 1.4.71; upgrade devcpu-data-intel to 20230613; upgrade msmtp to 1.8.24; upgrade syncthing to 1.23.6; upgrade sudo to 1.9.14p3; upgrade VirtualBox-OSE to 6.1.46; upgrade nut to 2023.07.11; upgrade PHP to 8.2.8. General note: download your configuration file from the backup/restore page and store it in a safe location before upgrading your system. GEOM RAID5: XigmaNAS 13.x releases will no longer support GEOM RAID5, the code was removed from the code base; you will NOT have access to your DATA; migrate your data to ZFS first before upgrade. Post-upgrade tasks: you may need to clear your browser's cache to circumvent display issues; make a backup of your configuration file and store it in a safe location..." Here is the complete readme file with general notes, upgrade instructions and a brief changelog.
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 2,894
- Total data uploaded: 43.5TB
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) |
Protecting a file from being overwritten
In this week's Questions and Answers column we talked about a few ways to protect a file. In particular two easy approaches are to use file permissions and file attributes. There are other approaches to protecting files such as access controls (AppArmor and SELinux being two common examples). What tools do you use to protect files from being changed or overwritten?
You can see the results of our previous poll on Solus removing its MATE edition in favour of Xfce in last week's edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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I protect files from being changed/overwritten using...
| File permissions (chmod): | 299 (31%) |
| File attributes (chattr): | 61 (6%) |
| AppArmor/SELinux: | 31 (3%) |
| Immutable filesystem: | 23 (2%) |
| A combination of the above: | 85 (9%) |
| All of the above: | 8 (1%) |
| Other: | 31 (3%) |
| None: | 414 (43%) |
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| Website News |
DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 14 August 2023. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Weekly Archive and Article Search pages. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • File overwrite protection (by Otis on 2023-08-07 00:56:50 GMT from United States)
In my 25 years of using Linux I've not yet had occasion to fret about files being overwritten. If a file is overwritten it is because I've intentionally done that.
2 • File protection, Peppermint (by Andy Prough on 2023-08-07 02:39:23 GMT from United States)
I protect config files by simply backing them up. I run into this frequently as a DWM user - anytime you patch DWM the config.def.h and dwm.c files will be overwritten, so in the event that an attempted patch fails you may want to revert back to your backup copies of those files. When running the 'make' command, config.def.h overwrites config.h, so once again you may want to backup your version of config.h.
On Peppermint, my experience was better than the reviewer's. I tried Peppermint a few months ago for the first time, and I used the Devuan edition. I'm not sure why you would want to use a Debian version with bloated systemd for a minimal distro, but whatever. I disagree with the reviewer in that on a minimal distro I definitely do NOT want flatpaks and snapd setup by default, as I won't be planning to use them.
And the Appimagehub issue with poorly maintained packages is Appimagehub's fault, not Peppermint's. If that were the criteria for inclusion then no one should ever use flathub or the snap store or even the AUR either, as they all have their fair share of poorly maintained packages. Personally I wouldn't include any of these hubs and stores with their massively bloated package installations on a minimal distro, but that's just me.
3 • PeppermintOS (by Old One on 2023-08-07 05:39:12 GMT from Thailand)
I agree with Andy above
I have been using PeppermintOS , presently >Devuan, for about 11 months, nearly daily, and I had no issues.
It's fast and snappy. I use it mainly for music listening and piano learning and playing.
Besides my 8 year young Acer Desktop, I also have it installed on my two 17 year old Compaq laptops.
Also 3 member in my family have it on their 15-> 20 year old laptop with 1 only 2 Gb memory.
No one has complaints.
And on the forum, your questions are quickly replied to.
4 • Peppermint (by GrumpyGranpa on 2023-08-07 05:53:32 GMT from Australia)
I have run Peppermint Devuan for sometime. My only issues is that I really do not like xfce. I've ripped it out and installed lxde, but, it would be nice if there was a net install option made available whereby we can choose our desktop.
I use Peppermint due to the Calamares installer which is a pleasure to use. Devuan ships with its horrendous archaic installer that usually never works first time, especially partitioning.
I usually remove all the Peppermint branding and take it back to as pure Devuan as possible.
Seems like lot of work, but until Devuan gets its act together and switches to Calamares, what else is a man to do?
5 • Devuan Installer, alternative to painful setup (by Hank on 2023-08-07 06:28:01 GMT from Austria)
I agree on devuan installer, it is a horrible pain to use. Had to pre setup partitions using GParted before being able to install.
Until Devuan gets its act together and switches to Calamares, what else is a man to do?
This greybeard man who is not a fan of the system D built up a customized antiX running from a USB stick, using included remaster and live cloning of running system to a second stick until everything
was working as wanted then installed the custom setup which worked perfectly from day 1.
The usb stick is also my backup as well as a fully customized system with a choice of a recent and a legacy kernel. I carry the stick and have found it can boot and be useful many other devices with same arch. i.e. 64 bit. That included some very recent systems.
6 • Pep/Devu/MX/etc (by Sondar on 2023-08-07 07:32:52 GMT from United Kingdom)
Peppermint review was very helpful; tried it some years back - hadn't realised the passing of author. Echo the sentiments of others - do not want Flatties, sysD, snappies and co. Do like Xfce, though. Have been using Mint for many years but it has become too bloated and enamored with unnecessary tat. Will probably settle for MX despite the prospect of having to swap 20+yrs of files/data/etc and confront major reorganisation of default desktop. EASY on USB serves well for simple/transient tasks.
7 • @4 @5 Devuan Installer (by DaveT on 2023-08-07 08:36:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
Never had any problems with the Devuan installer.
Equally I am now so old I've been installing Debian and now Devuan using 'expert install' for literally decades!
Apple computers sometimes need GParted to make it play nicely before a Devuan install, but again, it never causes any problems, just a few extra steps.
8 • Peppermint (by Hoos on 2023-08-07 09:14:17 GMT from Singapore)
I haven't run Peppermint in ages, but my first thought when reading the featured review about snapd or flatpak not being preinstalled was simply that the developers were giving the user the freedom to choose what portable app format, if at all, they want on their system.
9 • @5 - alternative installers (by Uncle Slacky on 2023-08-07 09:22:09 GMT from France)
There's also the Refracta installer (also an option on EXE GNU/Linux as well):
https://refracta.org/docs/readme.refractainstaller.txt
10 • File overwrite protection (by Anthony on 2023-08-07 10:41:19 GMT from Czechia)
Since I use my own computer with no other (non-system) users, if I need to overwrite-protect a file, then setting its rights to 0600 is sufficient (by the way, my default umask is 0077), and if I do need to change the file, I can temporarily set it back to 0600. I also used chattr and the *i*mmutable option, probably just once or twice, but I don't remember when it was and why I needed it. 0400 is almost always enough for me. (And of course, important files are regularly backed up, in case I manage to erroneously delete or overwrite them.)
11 • Peppermint and others (by Nathan on 2023-08-07 12:21:41 GMT from United States)
i previously used Peppermint on several laptops which were donated to students.
All worked fine and fast.
The only issue I had was when trying to include updates during the install process.
Never worked. Borked the install.
Presently, I am running MX 23 on all three computers.
MX 23-KDE on my laptop.
MX 23-XFCE on my daily desktop.
MX23-Fluxbox on my distro hopping desktop.
As an aside, Arch based Liya linux has been the only Arch or Arch based distro
that made it through more then 4 updates without dying / locking me out / refusing to re-boot etc.
As an Arch based distro, highly recommended.
12 • PeppermintOS is a top 5 minimalist distro (by Alex on 2023-08-07 14:02:12 GMT from United States)
I run PeppermintOS on a bunch of repurposed EOL Chromebooks which come with a miniscule amount of diskspace and ram (16GB eMMC and 4GB memory). I appreciate that it does not install packages by default which IMO should be left up to user preference like office suites, photo viewers, etc.
I happily updated to the new Bookworm version a day after it was released and did not run into any problems. I recommend the distro highly.
13 • @11, including updates during install (by Andy Prough on 2023-08-07 16:12:40 GMT from Switzerland)
>"The only issue I had was when trying to include updates during the install process."
I've had problems with this on several distros. Mainly some of them take a lot of extra time during the installation to "install updates", but when I boot the fresh installation for the first time I find out I have "284 updates waiting for you". I've given up on using that option with any distro - seems like a waste of time for the most part. I think the installers don't sync to current repos, or there's some bug in Calamares or other installers. Whether it's Peppermint or any other distro, I would say the best bet is to do a normal installation and update afterwards.
14 • Preinstalled stuff (by Friar Tux on 2023-08-07 17:38:01 GMT from Canada)
Just a note from the other end of the spectrum. I appreciate preinstalled "bloat". Not too much, mind you, but enough to go right to work. I only have one program that I actually HAVE to install every time. But other than that, I like the fact that most distros preinstall software to go. I DO have my absolute favourite media player, office suite, music player, etc., but I can change those out at my leisure.
When Windows 10 forced itself onto our laptops a few years back, both The Wife and I were in the middle of working on stuff. It was to be an hour long disruption - at least that was the estimated time given - and confirmed by a friend after a phone call. I had been toying with Linux Mint/Cinnamon at the time, so I switched off the laptops and loaded Mint on both. We had a total of 20 minutes downtime due to the preinstalled programs being able to go right to work. Still using Mint 7 years later with not even so much as a hiccup in the system - even with updates and 3 or 4 version changes. Linux is great!!
15 • @14 - Preinstalled stuff (by Andy Prough on 2023-08-07 20:30:33 GMT from Switzerland)
>"Just a note from the other end of the spectrum. I appreciate preinstalled "bloat". Not too much, mind you, but enough to go right to work"
But we're talking about minimal distros, and your example of Linux Mint with Cinnamon desktop is definitely not a minimal distro by any standard. I'm sure we all sometimes use distros like Mint or MX that are full-bodied distros - I use the Trisquel distro that comes pre-loaded with lots of software. But when I'm looking for a minimal distro, especially for older hardware, I want one that lets me make most of the software choices.
16 • Peppermint OS (by Glenn Condrey on 2023-08-08 00:20:30 GMT from Canada)
I used to run Peppermint quite frequently back when it was based on Mint/Ubuntu's family line.
Everything just worked...and I never had any problems with my laptops or netbooks running it.
I installed it recently...for old times sake...and it feels kind of like System76's version of Xandros and Linspire.
Yeah they have the same name...but nothing in common with the OSes they were named after.
This feels just like that.
Whatever made Peppermint special...died with the developer, just my opinion.
17 • Missed out... (by Friar Tux on 2023-08-08 13:32:22 GMT from Canada)
@15 (Andy) I think you missed my point... "Just a note from THE OTHER END of the spectrum." My point being that while minimalism is all well and good for some, there ARE those of us who don't care for minimalism and would simply prefer to have the tools needed to do our work included in the installation, as some distros have done. Sure they may not be my chosen tools in some cases, but they get the job done and, as mentioned, I can switch out to my favourites at my leisure, later.
To add to my point, MOST PCs and laptops, these days have more than enough space for a bloatful of software. While I don't think I would want to fill that space just 'cause it's there, I do like to have my tools handy for when I need them. Just a thought from one of us bloaters floating about in my bloat.
18 • Saving one's rump is important you know.... (by tom joad on 2023-08-08 20:01:14 GMT from United States)
Those are a couple of handy commands to know and tuck away in the old brain. More arrows in the quiver is always good.
My principle method of saving my rump is...BACKUP, BACKUP and well...BACKUP!
I do that multiple ways with Timeshift being my first line of defense. Another thing I do is save my backups FOREVER. I mostly never throw anything away. Big zip drives are relatively cheap these days.
My personal directories in my home folder are the ones I save for me.Timeshift gets the rest of it. And I back up Timeshifts, too, just in case....
BTW...I guess it was just understood in Jesse's 'Tips and Tricks' that one had to be Root to execute those commands.
19 • chattr (by hulondalo on 2023-08-09 07:02:46 GMT from Hong Kong)
i use uget a lot but unfortunately the interface settings are always changed remotely by some schmuks so i just set chattr on ~/.config/uGet and problem solved:)
i think the creator of this little tool should be given a highest medal
ps: can't wait to try mx linux 23. is kernel update bug like the one in debian 12 fixed?
20 • MX 23 - Peppermint (by Albert on 2023-08-09 13:00:38 GMT from Uruguay)
@19 (hulondalo): Yes, it was fixed on MX. As a fact I'm using the Xfce version of MX 23 to write this.
As for Peppermint I share the first sentence of @6 Sondar's comment and almost fully agree with @16 Glenn Condrey to which I would like to add that the current Peppermint release (2023-07-01) was buggy. I had it installed for a month, waiting for a correcting update that didn't come so I deleted it from the disk. Before, when Peppermint was based on Ubuntu, it used to be a great system. Nowadays even Ubuntu has taken a path that doesn't please me at all. Let's see what the result of this is finally.
I don't really care too much about systemd, however I've always installed the MX version using SysVInit, just because it's snappy and it's the default init system.
I also use some five flatpaks, and on systems with systemd I add one snap too. I don't like these 'universal' packages very much; I'd rather have the original .deb applications instead; however they simply don't exist or very frequently have problems with its server (I'm talking here about Skype specifically). As I've mentioned on some other occasion I find that flatpaks and snaps take too much space on disk.
21 • "Low-resource" distribution (by why-oh-why on 2023-08-09 16:34:49 GMT from Netherlands)
Low-resource distribution is relative.
I really am not so sure if 700 MB of RAM use still falls under "low-resource distro."
This would be more on par with "MX-Fluxbox Bloatware."
A full-fledged Gnome runs with less.
https://postimg.cc/vg5DHJhJ
https://postimg.cc/n9Zrs3wC
For comparison:
https://postimg.cc/RqQQgymp
https://postimg.cc/sM4DGPCL
Also, like almost every other Xfce distribution, it comes poorly preconfigured.
The network manager will open the light panel, but all others are dark.
The battery symbol is much bigger than the other symbols, etc.
At the end, there is a too-tiny font used for the clock...
Under a fully usable "low-resource distro," I understand something like Salix 15.
It comes with all the applications that one needs, regardless of purpose.
It comes without some bloat, and it even looks good OOTB.
Or, one can get a bare-bones distribution like Bodhi Linux 7 RC, which will come with only a few applications preinstalled but will look much better and use half as many resources.
22 • The life and death of MX Linux (23-Fluxbox) (by why-oh-why on 2023-08-09 16:56:44 GMT from Netherlands)
Imagine you start the live session of MX Linux 23 Fluxbox in a VirtualBox to show it to someone or to make some screenshots of its horrible presets.
30 screenshots later, or 25 minutes later, whatever you prefer, the "live session" turns into a "dead session."
MX Linux 23 Fluxbox used all 4 GB of RAM assigned to it.
https://postimg.cc/VSLwwk5Z
This is the most peculiar thing I've ever seen in my 20+ years of "Linuxing."
23 • Linux, quo vadis? (by why-oh-why on 2023-08-09 17:12:39 GMT from Netherlands)
Ubuntu 22.04:
https://postimg.cc/tYkyM64n
https://postimg.cc/bSTX4Xpf
Are they trying to tell me that I might have some open security holes, but they won't give me an update unless I register my OS for "ESM Apps"?
Paid software in the Linux Software Store? Why not, but why yes if we talk about applications that are available for free in every other store?
The most peculiar thing about the Elementary 7 Software Center is that there is almost nothing worth downloading—not even LibreOffice.
https://postimg.cc/HjfB1vjf
https://postimg.cc/9r5tn4n2
(We are talking about "Taxi" as an example here.)
24 • Peppermint OS (by James Herkimer on 2023-08-09 20:40:28 GMT from United States)
"----it might even run on an old 32-bit Asus Eee."----
It does.
25 bull; @14, Minimal Linux (by Justin on 2023-08-09 21:30:31 GMT from United States)
I appreciate @14's distro comments. That is my criteria for a good live CD. If I need to use a live system (or VM or whatever), I want it pre-configured so that I can do whatever it is I want to do as quickly as possible.
On the flip side, I appreciate the minimal distro part where I add the pieces because on my daily driver, I'm fine taking that time.
For minimal specs, those creep over time. When I first started with Arch + Openbox, I had a full system running at 98MB. Five years later, that same system is just over 200MB with no new software, configuration, autostart, etc., only kernel and package updates. Windows XP could configured to run with like 68MB of RAM, so while Windows has definitely bloated much faster, I'm disappointed in 5 years to see barebones Linux require twice the memory it used to. It doesn't feel faster at all. In fact, my boot times on that setup have increased by probably 5s in that time (13s to now 18s full desktop).
26 • I protect files from being changed/overwritten using... (by James on 2023-08-10 11:34:18 GMT from United States)
By not being stupid.
27 • Continuing with Peppermint (by Marti on 2023-08-10 11:56:18 GMT from United States)
The first Peppermint I used was the Ice distro from 2010: cooling and blue themed. A UNIX admin friend of mine had always helped me install Linux on my desktop, but that was the first time I installed by myself onto a laptop. So simple! It was glorious enough that the wifi worked right after install.
A laptop or two later, I have the Debian Peppermint which came from a Peppermint 10 update/upgrade. My most simple needs (word processing and Internet/E-mail) are met, but I'm now stuck with 3 broken packages with a dependency that "is not installable". If Broadcom wifi still works, I'm in a sweet spot.
It did seem that the update/upgrade did take "more than a minute". I can't comment on a from-scratch install.
XFCE is fine and consistent, though as an Ancient One I still pine for LXDE.
Number of Comments: 27
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LinuxInstall was a distribution based on Red Hat Linux 8.0 with personal desktop packages (Mozilla, Evolution, OpenOffice); latest Kernel; latest software updates; auto hardware detection; auto root account creation; auto hard drive Partitioning; auto network setup using DHCP; auto package selection; no questions asked during installation; completely automated installation done in 15 minutes and best of all, it's all in ONE CD!
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