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Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • alternative package manager distro (by fenglengshun on 2023-03-13 04:14:34 GMT from Indonesia)
Currently running Vanilla OS myself, I'm waiting for the 2.0 to test the migration process (if there's one, if not then I'll just proceed to use something else). Overall, it's pretty easy to adapt to how they want to do things, especially as apx makes it easy to run stuff from AUR and Nix, making me not need to install host that much.
Was thinking about trying out blendOS as well, but it seems like a scuff Vanilla OS, led by rudra who is young and busy enough that I'm not entirely sure if everything is well maintained (I didn't see any commit for many of blendOS projects on github which doesn't inspire confidence in a WIP distro), and they're planning to do major changes according to their blog post, so I might as well wait for that.
I'm also keeping an eye on Crystal Linux's Project Shard, which apparently aims to do a macOS style multi-volume immutability that apparently would allow users to still use pacman as normal. Seems to be the more sensible approach to immutability on Arch-based.
And of course, there's whatever is going on with PopOS with their immutable core with overlays for user packages, which probably has something to do with Linus and something something "Yes, Break My System."
Overall, it's pretty interesting. So far, only Vanilla feels worth running to me, due to having Nix well-integrated and having the most active development. I'm not going to daily drive immutable distro any time soon but I'm keeping an eye on the space in general. I really hope using Nix to supplement the usual immutable package managers becomes standard, because it makes it much more convenient and I have less need to do what I'm "not supposed to".
2 • Package Manager (by Dr.J on 2023-03-13 08:17:48 GMT from Germany)
To date, there has been no need for the desire for alternative package managers. Because Arch has with the AUR a huge fund of software away from the official repositories. And should a package from a third party actually be necessary, this is often available as a deb.package. With debtap there is a tool for this in the AUR.
3 • blendOS et al: Complexity, Component-Count, Attack-Surface? (by Benjamin on 2023-03-13 09:12:55 GMT from United Kingdom)
Whilst the conceptual goals around distro-agnostic package-support (unifying and simplifying) may be laudable (and probably fashionable), I do have to wonder and worry about the implications for security and robustness. Especially when it's small teams (or worse, a lone individual) "maintaining" a whole distro.
How much attention is being given to the well-established principles: simple small components doing one thing and doing it well, and simple small codebase in which it's easier to spot problems?
We're in a cat-and-mouse world of increasingly hostile and innovative digital actors (e.g., go read about Pegasus spyware by Israeli NSO).
As a refugee fleeing Canonical's Ubuntu I'm looking for a distro where there's a good community of developers (not one-man-band projects) with security-experts who are looking to reduce the complexity and component-count and reduce the attack-surface, actively plugging holes. I want better clarity/transparency and fewer potential points-of-failure.
Proof-of-Concept multi-flavour package-support might be nice in theory, but how high are security and long-term maintainable robustness on the list of priorities?
Actually, @Jesse, question/suggestion, it would be helpful to have knowledgeable reviews of the state of play here in 2023 of distros actively prioritising Security. I keep reading references to kernel-tweaks and immutable filesystems and various forms of compartmentalisation and jails, so it would be good to have others expertise and opinions on these developments (and on the distros implementing them), gathered and shared here.
4 • Alternative package maned distros (by Hank on 2023-03-13 09:41:09 GMT from Germany)
A solution creating a problem. Massive Bloat.
Like using Flatpack except even more overloaded and bloated. Thanks, will stick with DEB.
If a package is unavailable self compiling is usually a solution.
5 • Packaging (by Friar Tux on 2023-03-13 16:13:53 GMT from Canada)
Not really sure what all the fuss (FOSS) is about. For me, Flatpaks and Snaps are out. They are way too new, with way too many issues, to even bother with. My preference is AppImages - one file - that is easily storable and transferable to anywhere and, so far, has worked with no glitches. Mostly, though, I find the default software quite adequate. If I need something that isn't in the default repository, I use DEB, and if that doesn't have it, I go for AppImage. So far, I haven't had any issues. I AM curious why the AppImage folks haven't gained more popularity as their product seems to be the crowning glory of this whole "universal software" push. It requires no "installer", just download the app (a single file), make it executable, and go to work. Easy peasy. So, to me Flatpak and Snaps appears to be a "my way or the highway" type of thing - not the Linux one job, done well. (I wish all apps/programs were in the AppImage format)
6 • @3 (by Justin on 2023-03-13 16:15:24 GMT from United States)
OS security and patching is one major reason I moved to Linux. I like a centralized archive (repository) of software being watched in my (relatively) best interest. All the portable packages, containers, etc., in Linux have the very problem you describe: who maintains them? It is the fragmentation of maintainers. I understand the historical reasons why, but still, it boils down to "we don't collaborate, we fork" with OSS (this approach is both positive and negative for the ecosystem, I'm not making a judgement here).
I've seen this problem before. Windows had it decades ago (and still does). You used to download random zip files from the internet. They would come prepackaged with libraries you needed because you never knew what was on someone's system. You end up with 20 DLLs for the same component, but they would be at different versions, all with different bugs and flaws. They are great for malware and system penetration because they are a nightmare for security. Linux offered single packages for shared libraries, so when one gets fixed, all apps get fixed. If some app breaks because of incompatibility, either that also gets fixed (hopefully by the author) or some other alternative existed that wasn't too hard to find (look in the repo rather than scour the internet, or if you were technical enough, make the fix yourself because you can read the script or source).
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of portable packages. I have a couple AppImages I've made so that I can run that software anywhere. However, for security and maintenance, we're going in the wrong direction. Users put convenience over security because they feel convenience every day. It's only after security affects them (like someone robs their house because they've left it unlocked for years with "no problems") that they suddenly care, only to forget a few weeks/months later because it's become inconvenient again.
In my mind the solution is better collaboration between projects. I don't think having one unified project is the solution because there are a lot of benefits from a community working on different but similar things to find better overall solutions (in biology you want to have diversity so that a single defect doesn't wipe out your species). However, the how is always harder, so I appreciate the people and groups that work toward this goal.
7 • HTTP access (by David on 2023-03-13 16:29:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
One answer is not to use a browser that insists on HTTPS. I've just checked the avidemux site with both Firefox and Pale Moon — no problems. Who needs anything else?
8 • immutable (by Toran on 2023-03-13 17:06:23 GMT from Belgium)
I think the concept of Vanilla OS is the future, but only when we have the same possibiliies as f.e. ubuntu. And I am talking about hplip and hp-plugin. Okay, we have ScanVue, but that one is commercial.
9 • Tracking all the files installed with a package (by Tuxworx on 2023-03-13 17:26:05 GMT from United States)
If you are running a system that supports the apt package manager and might want to check everything that is installed along with a package, it seems a lot easier to me to install packages with Synaptic. It has a built-in History function that will list (by date and time) everything that was installed, removed, or updated each time you used it to perform any of those functions. An added bonus is that you can configure it to differentiate between installing only dependencies or installing dependencies plus recommended packages. You can check what a packages depends on and what it only recommends before running the installation; so if, for instance, you only want to install some of the recommended packages, you can initially run the install with only dependencies and then separately install just the recommended things that you want.
10 • Package files - portage (by MC on 2023-03-13 20:40:08 GMT from United States)
On Portage-based systems (eg. Gentoo) the equery utility, found in the gentoolkit package, can fetch this information
11 • Packaging (by joncr on 2023-03-14 11:55:30 GMT from United States)
I am inclined to think Flathub enthusiasm among big-name Linux distributions is motivated, in part, by the possibility Flatpaks can get them out of the packaging business. However, if/when everyone is running the same Flatpaks, what's left to distinguish between distributions beyond kernels, etc.?
My only grievance with Canonical's Snap is the performance of Firefox on Wayland. I do not care how software I do no interact with is packaged.
12 • @5 Packaging (by StephenC on 2023-03-14 19:19:22 GMT from United States)
I agree that the push for Flatpak does seem to be so that maintainers can reduce their time. I can understand that. But, for the couple of apps that I want to be portable, I just run them as AppImages in a sandbox on Linux. This allows me to carry the same Mac, Windows, and Linux portable app on a USB stick. No need to install anything, anywhere.
As a end-user, I'm not interested in portable "distribution", just portable "usage".
13 • How to find inotifywait (by Bruce F. on 2023-03-14 23:05:12 GMT from United States)
In case you are having trouble finding it, "inotifywait" is part of the "inotify-tools" package. At least on Manjaro.
14 • What's left... is still right. (by Friar Tux on 2023-03-15 00:40:02 GMT from Canada)
@11 (joncr) "... what's left to distinguish between distributions beyond kernels, etc.?" I see the distros similar to cars/trucks/buses etc.. They basically all do the same thing, BUT, there are hundreds (thousands even) of different models (some even within the same company). Most can be repaired with the same, or similar tools. Some folks will swear by a certain model while disparaging all others. Some don't really care one way or the other so long as they get to where they're going. Some have more than one - one for work and another for play. And some folks like to pull their's apart to see what makes it tick, while others just send their's to a shop for repairs. Distros are quite like cars and we treat the two very similarly.
15 • Packages (by penguinx86 on 2023-03-15 07:01:25 GMT from United States)
I prefer traditional Linux packages like .DEB or .RPM. I really don't like Snap packages showing up when I type the 'df' command to check disk space. I don't want to be forced to use more and more abstraction layers on my home laptop. Keep it simple!
16 • blendOS and the like (by Simon on 2023-03-15 08:47:12 GMT from New Zealand)
I just don't understand the point of this mess. Why complicate a system with so many different package managers? Even if your distro doesn't have the package you want in its repositories, it's trivially easy to create your own package from upstream source: surely much easier, and a better investment of your time (and also more helpful to the community, if you share your packages) to learn how to build your own packages for your preferred distro, than to learn how to manage one of these cobbled together pastiche distros. I suppose I can appreciate that people do stuff like this just for the fun of doing something different... but I would hate to be running one of these hybrid things as my daily desktop.
17 • Old Software (by John on 2023-03-15 11:51:50 GMT from Canada)
As a Slackware user, the Slackware team worries about these issues for me :)
18 • Snap no more (by verndog on 2023-03-15 12:39:01 GMT from United States)
@15 I don't use Snap at all. I follow this removal process: https://onlinux.systems/guides/20220524_how-to-disable-and-remove-snap-on-ubuntu-2204 Then I add Firefox as per these instructions: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/install-firefox-linux#w_install-firefox-from-mozilla-builds-for-advanced-users
19 • @16: (by dragonmouth on 2023-03-15 13:11:13 GMT from United States)
You have to look no further than the Linux philosophy for the answer. Any Tom, Dick or Harry can create their own version of an application or a distro. It does not have to be revolutionary or evolutionary. It doesn't even have to be practical or useful. It just has to a LITTLE bit different. And the vast majority of the Linux community encourages it.
When it comes to corporate Linux developers, it is about control. Each company wants and expects their product(s) to be THE ONES to dominate the rest of the Linux universe. As Mark Shuttleworth said about Canonical's development of Unity, Mir, Snap, etc - "We want products WE can control."
Number of Comments: 19
Display mode: DWW Only • Comments Only • Both DWW and Comments
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Archives |
• Ussye 1118 (2025-04-21): Fedora 42, strange characters in Vim, Nitrux introduces new package tools, Fedora extends reproducibility efforts, PINE64 updates multiple devices running Debian |
• Issue 1117 (2025-04-14): Shebang 25.0, EndeavourOS 2025.03.19, running applications from other distros on the desktop, Debian gets APT upgrade, Mint introduces OEM options for LMDE, postmarketOS packages GNOME 48 and COSMIC, Redox testing USB support |
• Issue 1116 (2025-04-07): The Sense HAT, Android and mobile operating systems, FreeBSD improves on laptops, openSUSE publishes many new updates, Fedora appoints new Project Leader, UBports testing VoLTE |
• Issue 1115 (2025-03-31): GrapheneOS 2025, the rise of portable package formats, MidnightBSD and openSUSE experiment with new package management features, Plank dock reborn, key infrastructure projects lose funding, postmarketOS to focus on reliability |
• Issue 1114 (2025-03-24): Bazzite 41, checking which processes are writing to disk, Rocky unveils new Hardened branch, GNOME 48 released, generating images for the Raspberry Pi |
• Issue 1113 (2025-03-17): MocaccinoOS 1.8.1, how to contribute to open source, Murena extends on-line installer, Garuda tests COSMIC edition, Ubuntu to replace coreutils with Rust alternatives, Chimera Linux drops RISC-V builds |
• Issue 1112 (2025-03-10): Solus 4.7, distros which work with Secure Boot, UBports publishes bug fix, postmarketOS considers a new name, Debian running on Android |
• Issue 1111 (2025-03-03): Orbitiny 0.01, the effect of Ubuntu Core Desktop, Gentoo offers disk images, elementary OS invites feature ideas, FreeBSD starts PinePhone Pro port, Mint warns of upcoming Firefox issue |
• Issue 1110 (2025-02-24): iodeOS 6.0, learning to program, Arch retiring old repositories, openSUSE makes progress on reproducible builds, Fedora is getting more serious about open hardware, Tails changes its install instructions to offer better privacy, Murena's de-Googled tablet goes on sale |
• Issue 1109 (2025-02-17): Rhino Linux 2025.1, MX Linux 23.5 with Xfce 4.20, replacing X.Org tools with Wayland tools, GhostBSD moving its base to FreeBSD -RELEASE, Redox stabilizes its ABI, UBports testing 24.04, Asahi changing its leadership, OBS in dispute with Fedora |
• Issue 1108 (2025-02-10): Serpent OS 0.24.6, Aurora, sharing swap between distros, Peppermint tries Void base, GTK removinglegacy technologies, Red Hat plans more AI tools for Fedora, TrueNAS merges its editions |
• Issue 1107 (2025-02-03): siduction 2024.1.0, timing tasks, Lomiri ported to postmarketOS, Alpine joins Open Collective, a new desktop for Linux called Orbitiny |
• Issue 1106 (2025-01-27): Adelie Linux 1.0 Beta 6, Pop!_OS 24.04 Alpha 5, detecting whether a process is inside a virtual machine, drawing graphics to NetBSD terminal, Nix ported to FreeBSD, GhostBSD hosting desktop conference |
• Issue 1105 (2025-01-20): CentOS 10 Stream, old Flatpak bundles in software centres, Haiku ports Iceweasel, Oracle shows off debugging tools, rsync vulnerability patched |
• Issue 1104 (2025-01-13): DAT Linux 2.0, Silly things to do with a minimal computer, Budgie prepares Wayland only releases, SteamOS coming to third-party devices, Murena upgrades its base |
• Issue 1103 (2025-01-06): elementary OS 8.0, filtering ads with Pi-hole, Debian testing its installer, Pop!_OS faces delays, Ubuntu Studio upgrades not working, Absolute discontinued |
• Issue 1102 (2024-12-23): Best distros of 2024, changing a process name, Fedora to expand Btrfs support and releases Asahi Remix 41, openSUSE patches out security sandbox and donations from Bottles while ending support for Leap 15.5 |
• Issue 1101 (2024-12-16): GhostBSD 24.10.1, sending attachments from the command line, openSUSE shows off GPU assignment tool, UBports publishes security update, Murena launches its first tablet, Xfce 4.20 released |
• Issue 1100 (2024-12-09): Oreon 9.3, differences in speed, IPFire's new appliance, Fedora Asahi Remix gets new video drivers, openSUSE Leap Micro updated, Redox OS running Redox OS |
• Issue 1099 (2024-12-02): AnduinOS 1.0.1, measuring RAM usage, SUSE continues rebranding efforts, UBports prepares for next major version, Murena offering non-NFC phone |
• Issue 1098 (2024-11-25): Linux Lite 7.2, backing up specific folders, Murena and Fairphone partner in fair trade deal, Arch installer gets new text interface, Ubuntu security tool patched |
• Issue 1097 (2024-11-18): Chimera Linux vs Chimera OS, choosing between AlmaLinux and Debian, Fedora elevates KDE spin to an edition, Fedora previews new installer, KDE testing its own distro, Qubes-style isolation coming to FreeBSD |
• Issue 1096 (2024-11-11): Bazzite 40, Playtron OS Alpha 1, Tucana Linux 3.1, detecting Screen sessions, Redox imports COSMIC software centre, FreeBSD booting on the PinePhone Pro, LXQt supports Wayland window managers |
• Issue 1095 (2024-11-04): Fedora 41 Kinoite, transferring applications between computers, openSUSE Tumbleweed receives multiple upgrades, Ubuntu testing compiler optimizations, Mint partners with Framework |
• Issue 1094 (2024-10-28): DebLight OS 1, backing up crontab, AlmaLinux introduces Litten branch, openSUSE unveils refreshed look, Ubuntu turns 20 |
• Issue 1093 (2024-10-21): Kubuntu 24.10, atomic vs immutable distributions, Debian upgrading Perl packages, UBports adding VoLTE support, Android to gain native GNU/Linux application support |
• Issue 1092 (2024-10-14): FunOS 24.04.1, a home directory inside a file, work starts of openSUSE Leap 16.0, improvements in Haiku, KDE neon upgrades its base |
• Issue 1091 (2024-10-07): Redox OS 0.9.0, Unified package management vs universal package formats, Redox begins RISC-V port, Mint polishes interface, Qubes certifies new laptop |
• Issue 1090 (2024-09-30): Rhino Linux 2024.2, commercial distros with alternative desktops, Valve seeks to improve Wayland performance, HardenedBSD parterns with Protectli, Tails merges with Tor Project, Quantum Leap partners with the FreeBSD Foundation |
• Issue 1089 (2024-09-23): Expirion 6.0, openKylin 2.0, managing configuration files, the future of Linux development, fixing bugs in Haiku, Slackware packages dracut |
• Issue 1088 (2024-09-16): PorteuX 1.6, migrating from Windows 10 to which Linux distro, making NetBSD immutable, AlmaLinux offers hardware certification, Mint updates old APT tools |
• Issue 1087 (2024-09-09): COSMIC desktop, running cron jobs at variable times, UBports highlights new apps, HardenedBSD offers work around for FreeBSD change, Debian considers how to cull old packages, systemd ported to musl |
• Issue 1086 (2024-09-02): Vanilla OS 2, command line tips for simple tasks, FreeBSD receives investment from STF, openSUSE Tumbleweed update can break network connections, Debian refreshes media |
• Issue 1085 (2024-08-26): Nobara 40, OpenMandriva 24.07 "ROME", distros which include source code, FreeBSD publishes quarterly report, Microsoft updates breaks Linux in dual-boot environments |
• Issue 1084 (2024-08-19): Liya 2.0, dual boot with encryption, Haiku introduces performance improvements, Gentoo dropping IA-64, Redcore merges major upgrade |
• Issue 1083 (2024-08-12): TrueNAS 24.04.2 "SCALE", Linux distros for smartphones, Redox OS introduces web server, PipeWire exposes battery drain on Linux, Canonical updates kernel version policy |
• Issue 1082 (2024-08-05): Linux Mint 22, taking snapshots of UFS on FreeBSD, openSUSE updates Tumbleweed and Aeon, Debian creates Tiny QA Tasks, Manjaro testing immutable images |
• Issue 1081 (2024-07-29): SysLinuxOS 12.4, OpenBSD gain hardware acceleration, Slackware changes kernel naming, Mint publishes upgrade instructions |
• Issue 1080 (2024-07-22): Running GNU/Linux on Android with Andronix, protecting network services, Solus dropping AppArmor and Snap, openSUSE Aeon Desktop gaining full disk encryption, SUSE asks openSUSE to change its branding |
• Issue 1079 (2024-07-15): Ubuntu Core 24, hiding files on Linux, Fedora dropping X11 packages on Workstation, Red Hat phasing out GRUB, new OpenSSH vulnerability, FreeBSD speeds up release cycle, UBports testing new first-run wizard |
• Issue 1078 (2024-07-08): Changing init software, server machines running desktop environments, OpenSSH vulnerability patched, Peppermint launches new edition, HardenedBSD updates ports |
• Issue 1077 (2024-07-01): The Unity and Lomiri interfaces, different distros for different tasks, Ubuntu plans to run Wayland on NVIDIA cards, openSUSE updates Leap Micro, Debian releases refreshed media, UBports gaining contact synchronisation, FreeDOS celebrates its 30th anniversary |
• Issue 1076 (2024-06-24): openSUSE 15.6, what makes Linux unique, SUSE Liberty Linux to support CentOS Linux 7, SLE receives 19 years of support, openSUSE testing Leap Micro edition |
• Issue 1075 (2024-06-17): Redox OS, X11 and Wayland on the BSDs, AlmaLinux releases Pi build, Canonical announces RISC-V laptop with Ubuntu, key changes in systemd |
• Issue 1074 (2024-06-10): Endless OS 6.0.0, distros with init diversity, Mint to filter unverified Flatpaks, Debian adds systemd-boot options, Redox adopts COSMIC desktop, OpenSSH gains new security features |
• Issue 1073 (2024-06-03): LXQt 2.0.0, an overview of Linux desktop environments, Canonical partners with Milk-V, openSUSE introduces new features in Aeon Desktop, Fedora mirrors see rise in traffic, Wayland adds OpenBSD support |
• Issue 1072 (2024-05-27): Manjaro 24.0, comparing init software, OpenBSD ports Plasma 6, Arch community debates mirror requirements, ThinOS to upgrade its FreeBSD core |
• Issue 1071 (2024-05-20): Archcraft 2024.04.06, common command line mistakes, ReactOS imports WINE improvements, Haiku makes adjusting themes easier, NetBSD takes a stand against code generated by chatbots |
• Issue 1070 (2024-05-13): Damn Small Linux 2024, hiding kernel messages during boot, Red Hat offers AI edition, new web browser for UBports, Fedora Asahi Remix 40 released, Qubes extends support for version 4.1 |
• Issue 1069 (2024-05-06): Ubuntu 24.04, installing packages in alternative locations, systemd creates sudo alternative, Mint encourages XApps collaboration, FreeBSD publishes quarterly update |
• Issue 1068 (2024-04-29): Fedora 40, transforming one distro into another, Debian elects new Project Leader, Red Hat extends support cycle, Emmabuntus adds accessibility features, Canonical's new security features |
• Issue 1067 (2024-04-22): LocalSend for transferring files, detecting supported CPU architecure levels, new visual design for APT, Fedora and openSUSE working on reproducible builds, LXQt released, AlmaLinux re-adds hardware support |
• Full list of all issues |
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Random Distribution | 
ERPOSS
During LinuxTag 2004 the German Federal Office for Information Security (BSI) and the company credativ unveiled the Linux Government Desktop. The Linux Goverment Desktop has been developed within the scope of the project ERPOSS which evaluates Open Source Software in government environments. Composed entirely of free software the distribution was available as a live CD as well as an install CD. One of the highlights brought by the Government Desktop was the fact that it saves the whole data on encrypted filesystems. Furthermore KMail was preconfigured to send and receive encrypted e-mail (GnuPG and S/MIME) and to make use of all kinds of authority certificates. The package was completed by integrated spam and virus protection and a preconfigured personal firewall.
Status: Discontinued
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