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1 • alternative package manager distro (by fenglengshun on 2023-03-13 04:14:34 GMT from Indonesia)
Currently running Vanilla OS myself, I'm waiting for the 2.0 to test the migration process (if there's one, if not then I'll just proceed to use something else). Overall, it's pretty easy to adapt to how they want to do things, especially as apx makes it easy to run stuff from AUR and Nix, making me not need to install host that much.
Was thinking about trying out blendOS as well, but it seems like a scuff Vanilla OS, led by rudra who is young and busy enough that I'm not entirely sure if everything is well maintained (I didn't see any commit for many of blendOS projects on github which doesn't inspire confidence in a WIP distro), and they're planning to do major changes according to their blog post, so I might as well wait for that.
I'm also keeping an eye on Crystal Linux's Project Shard, which apparently aims to do a macOS style multi-volume immutability that apparently would allow users to still use pacman as normal. Seems to be the more sensible approach to immutability on Arch-based.
And of course, there's whatever is going on with PopOS with their immutable core with overlays for user packages, which probably has something to do with Linus and something something "Yes, Break My System."
Overall, it's pretty interesting. So far, only Vanilla feels worth running to me, due to having Nix well-integrated and having the most active development. I'm not going to daily drive immutable distro any time soon but I'm keeping an eye on the space in general. I really hope using Nix to supplement the usual immutable package managers becomes standard, because it makes it much more convenient and I have less need to do what I'm "not supposed to".
2 • Package Manager (by Dr.J on 2023-03-13 08:17:48 GMT from Germany)
To date, there has been no need for the desire for alternative package managers. Because Arch has with the AUR a huge fund of software away from the official repositories. And should a package from a third party actually be necessary, this is often available as a deb.package. With debtap there is a tool for this in the AUR.
3 • blendOS et al: Complexity, Component-Count, Attack-Surface? (by Benjamin on 2023-03-13 09:12:55 GMT from United Kingdom)
Whilst the conceptual goals around distro-agnostic package-support (unifying and simplifying) may be laudable (and probably fashionable), I do have to wonder and worry about the implications for security and robustness. Especially when it's small teams (or worse, a lone individual) "maintaining" a whole distro.
How much attention is being given to the well-established principles: simple small components doing one thing and doing it well, and simple small codebase in which it's easier to spot problems?
We're in a cat-and-mouse world of increasingly hostile and innovative digital actors (e.g., go read about Pegasus spyware by Israeli NSO).
As a refugee fleeing Canonical's Ubuntu I'm looking for a distro where there's a good community of developers (not one-man-band projects) with security-experts who are looking to reduce the complexity and component-count and reduce the attack-surface, actively plugging holes. I want better clarity/transparency and fewer potential points-of-failure.
Proof-of-Concept multi-flavour package-support might be nice in theory, but how high are security and long-term maintainable robustness on the list of priorities?
Actually, @Jesse, question/suggestion, it would be helpful to have knowledgeable reviews of the state of play here in 2023 of distros actively prioritising Security. I keep reading references to kernel-tweaks and immutable filesystems and various forms of compartmentalisation and jails, so it would be good to have others expertise and opinions on these developments (and on the distros implementing them), gathered and shared here.
4 • Alternative package maned distros (by Hank on 2023-03-13 09:41:09 GMT from Germany)
A solution creating a problem. Massive Bloat.
Like using Flatpack except even more overloaded and bloated. Thanks, will stick with DEB.
If a package is unavailable self compiling is usually a solution.
5 • Packaging (by Friar Tux on 2023-03-13 16:13:53 GMT from Canada)
Not really sure what all the fuss (FOSS) is about. For me, Flatpaks and Snaps are out. They are way too new, with way too many issues, to even bother with. My preference is AppImages - one file - that is easily storable and transferable to anywhere and, so far, has worked with no glitches. Mostly, though, I find the default software quite adequate. If I need something that isn't in the default repository, I use DEB, and if that doesn't have it, I go for AppImage. So far, I haven't had any issues.
I AM curious why the AppImage folks haven't gained more popularity as their product seems to be the crowning glory of this whole "universal software" push. It requires no "installer", just download the app (a single file), make it executable, and go to work. Easy peasy. So, to me Flatpak and Snaps appears to be a "my way or the highway" type of thing - not the Linux one job, done well. (I wish all apps/programs were in the AppImage format)
6 • @3 (by Justin on 2023-03-13 16:15:24 GMT from United States)
OS security and patching is one major reason I moved to Linux. I like a centralized archive (repository) of software being watched in my (relatively) best interest. All the portable packages, containers, etc., in Linux have the very problem you describe: who maintains them? It is the fragmentation of maintainers. I understand the historical reasons why, but still, it boils down to "we don't collaborate, we fork" with OSS (this approach is both positive and negative for the ecosystem, I'm not making a judgement here).
I've seen this problem before. Windows had it decades ago (and still does). You used to download random zip files from the internet. They would come prepackaged with libraries you needed because you never knew what was on someone's system. You end up with 20 DLLs for the same component, but they would be at different versions, all with different bugs and flaws. They are great for malware and system penetration because they are a nightmare for security. Linux offered single packages for shared libraries, so when one gets fixed, all apps get fixed. If some app breaks because of incompatibility, either that also gets fixed (hopefully by the author) or some other alternative existed that wasn't too hard to find (look in the repo rather than scour the internet, or if you were technical enough, make the fix yourself because you can read the script or source).
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of portable packages. I have a couple AppImages I've made so that I can run that software anywhere. However, for security and maintenance, we're going in the wrong direction. Users put convenience over security because they feel convenience every day. It's only after security affects them (like someone robs their house because they've left it unlocked for years with "no problems") that they suddenly care, only to forget a few weeks/months later because it's become inconvenient again.
In my mind the solution is better collaboration between projects. I don't think having one unified project is the solution because there are a lot of benefits from a community working on different but similar things to find better overall solutions (in biology you want to have diversity so that a single defect doesn't wipe out your species). However, the how is always harder, so I appreciate the people and groups that work toward this goal.
7 • HTTP access (by David on 2023-03-13 16:29:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
One answer is not to use a browser that insists on HTTPS. I've just checked the avidemux site with both Firefox and Pale Moon — no problems. Who needs anything else?
8 • immutable (by Toran on 2023-03-13 17:06:23 GMT from Belgium)
I think the concept of Vanilla OS is the future, but only when we have the same possibiliies as f.e. ubuntu. And I am talking about hplip and hp-plugin. Okay, we have ScanVue, but that one is commercial.
9 • Tracking all the files installed with a package (by Tuxworx on 2023-03-13 17:26:05 GMT from United States)
If you are running a system that supports the apt package manager and might want to check everything that is installed along with a package, it seems a lot easier to me to install packages with Synaptic. It has a built-in History function that will list (by date and time) everything that was installed, removed, or updated each time you used it to perform any of those functions. An added bonus is that you can configure it to differentiate between installing only dependencies or installing dependencies plus recommended packages. You can check what a packages depends on and what it only recommends before running the installation; so if, for instance, you only want to install some of the recommended packages, you can initially run the install with only dependencies and then separately install just the recommended things that you want.
10 • Package files - portage (by MC on 2023-03-13 20:40:08 GMT from United States)
On Portage-based systems (eg. Gentoo) the equery utility, found in the gentoolkit package, can fetch this information
11 • Packaging (by joncr on 2023-03-14 11:55:30 GMT from United States)
I am inclined to think Flathub enthusiasm among big-name Linux distributions is motivated, in part, by the possibility Flatpaks can get them out of the packaging business. However, if/when everyone is running the same Flatpaks, what's left to distinguish between distributions beyond kernels, etc.?
My only grievance with Canonical's Snap is the performance of Firefox on Wayland. I do not care how software I do no interact with is packaged.
12 • @5 Packaging (by StephenC on 2023-03-14 19:19:22 GMT from United States)
I agree that the push for Flatpak does seem to be so that maintainers can reduce their time. I can understand that. But, for the couple of apps that I want to be portable, I just run them as AppImages in a sandbox on Linux. This allows me to carry the same Mac, Windows, and Linux portable app on a USB stick. No need to install anything, anywhere.
As a end-user, I'm not interested in portable "distribution", just portable "usage".
13 • How to find inotifywait (by Bruce F. on 2023-03-14 23:05:12 GMT from United States)
In case you are having trouble finding it, "inotifywait" is part of the "inotify-tools" package. At least on Manjaro.
14 • What's left... is still right. (by Friar Tux on 2023-03-15 00:40:02 GMT from Canada)
@11 (joncr) "... what's left to distinguish between distributions beyond kernels, etc.?" I see the distros similar to cars/trucks/buses etc.. They basically all do the same thing, BUT, there are hundreds (thousands even) of different models (some even within the same company). Most can be repaired with the same, or similar tools. Some folks will swear by a certain model while disparaging all others. Some don't really care one way or the other so long as they get to where they're going. Some have more than one - one for work and another for play. And some folks like to pull their's apart to see what makes it tick, while others just send their's to a shop for repairs.
Distros are quite like cars and we treat the two very similarly.
15 • Packages (by penguinx86 on 2023-03-15 07:01:25 GMT from United States)
I prefer traditional Linux packages like .DEB or .RPM. I really don't like Snap packages showing up when I type the 'df' command to check disk space. I don't want to be forced to use more and more abstraction layers on my home laptop. Keep it simple!
16 • blendOS and the like (by Simon on 2023-03-15 08:47:12 GMT from New Zealand)
I just don't understand the point of this mess. Why complicate a system with so many different package managers? Even if your distro doesn't have the package you want in its repositories, it's trivially easy to create your own package from upstream source: surely much easier, and a better investment of your time (and also more helpful to the community, if you share your packages) to learn how to build your own packages for your preferred distro, than to learn how to manage one of these cobbled together pastiche distros. I suppose I can appreciate that people do stuff like this just for the fun of doing something different... but I would hate to be running one of these hybrid things as my daily desktop.
17 • Old Software (by John on 2023-03-15 11:51:50 GMT from Canada)
As a Slackware user, the Slackware team worries about these issues for me :)
18 • Snap no more (by verndog on 2023-03-15 12:39:01 GMT from United States)
@15 I don't use Snap at all. I follow this removal process:
https://onlinux.systems/guides/20220524_how-to-disable-and-remove-snap-on-ubuntu-2204
Then I add Firefox as per these instructions:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/install-firefox-linux#w_install-firefox-from-mozilla-builds-for-advanced-users
19 • @16: (by dragonmouth on 2023-03-15 13:11:13 GMT from United States)
You have to look no further than the Linux philosophy for the answer. Any Tom, Dick or Harry can create their own version of an application or a distro. It does not have to be revolutionary or evolutionary. It doesn't even have to be practical or useful. It just has to a LITTLE bit different. And the vast majority of the Linux community encourages it.
When it comes to corporate Linux developers, it is about control. Each company wants and expects their product(s) to be THE ONES to dominate the rest of the Linux universe. As Mark Shuttleworth said about Canonical's development of Unity, Mir, Snap, etc - "We want products WE can control."
Number of Comments: 19
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| Archives |
| • Issue 1091 (2024-10-07): Redox OS 0.9.0, Unified package management vs universal package formats, Redox begins RISC-V port, Mint polishes interface, Qubes certifies new laptop |
| • Issue 1090 (2024-09-30): Rhino Linux 2024.2, commercial distros with alternative desktops, Valve seeks to improve Wayland performance, HardenedBSD parterns with Protectli, Tails merges with Tor Project, Quantum Leap partners with the FreeBSD Foundation |
| • Issue 1089 (2024-09-23): Expirion 6.0, openKylin 2.0, managing configuration files, the future of Linux development, fixing bugs in Haiku, Slackware packages dracut |
| • Issue 1088 (2024-09-16): PorteuX 1.6, migrating from Windows 10 to which Linux distro, making NetBSD immutable, AlmaLinux offers hardware certification, Mint updates old APT tools |
| • Issue 1087 (2024-09-09): COSMIC desktop, running cron jobs at variable times, UBports highlights new apps, HardenedBSD offers work around for FreeBSD change, Debian considers how to cull old packages, systemd ported to musl |
| • Issue 1086 (2024-09-02): Vanilla OS 2, command line tips for simple tasks, FreeBSD receives investment from STF, openSUSE Tumbleweed update can break network connections, Debian refreshes media |
| • Issue 1085 (2024-08-26): Nobara 40, OpenMandriva 24.07 "ROME", distros which include source code, FreeBSD publishes quarterly report, Microsoft updates breaks Linux in dual-boot environments |
| • Issue 1084 (2024-08-19): Liya 2.0, dual boot with encryption, Haiku introduces performance improvements, Gentoo dropping IA-64, Redcore merges major upgrade |
| • Issue 1083 (2024-08-12): TrueNAS 24.04.2 "SCALE", Linux distros for smartphones, Redox OS introduces web server, PipeWire exposes battery drain on Linux, Canonical updates kernel version policy |
| • Issue 1082 (2024-08-05): Linux Mint 22, taking snapshots of UFS on FreeBSD, openSUSE updates Tumbleweed and Aeon, Debian creates Tiny QA Tasks, Manjaro testing immutable images |
| • Issue 1081 (2024-07-29): SysLinuxOS 12.4, OpenBSD gain hardware acceleration, Slackware changes kernel naming, Mint publishes upgrade instructions |
| • Issue 1080 (2024-07-22): Running GNU/Linux on Android with Andronix, protecting network services, Solus dropping AppArmor and Snap, openSUSE Aeon Desktop gaining full disk encryption, SUSE asks openSUSE to change its branding |
| • Issue 1079 (2024-07-15): Ubuntu Core 24, hiding files on Linux, Fedora dropping X11 packages on Workstation, Red Hat phasing out GRUB, new OpenSSH vulnerability, FreeBSD speeds up release cycle, UBports testing new first-run wizard |
| • Issue 1078 (2024-07-08): Changing init software, server machines running desktop environments, OpenSSH vulnerability patched, Peppermint launches new edition, HardenedBSD updates ports |
| • Issue 1077 (2024-07-01): The Unity and Lomiri interfaces, different distros for different tasks, Ubuntu plans to run Wayland on NVIDIA cards, openSUSE updates Leap Micro, Debian releases refreshed media, UBports gaining contact synchronisation, FreeDOS celebrates its 30th anniversary |
| • Issue 1076 (2024-06-24): openSUSE 15.6, what makes Linux unique, SUSE Liberty Linux to support CentOS Linux 7, SLE receives 19 years of support, openSUSE testing Leap Micro edition |
| • Issue 1075 (2024-06-17): Redox OS, X11 and Wayland on the BSDs, AlmaLinux releases Pi build, Canonical announces RISC-V laptop with Ubuntu, key changes in systemd |
| • Issue 1074 (2024-06-10): Endless OS 6.0.0, distros with init diversity, Mint to filter unverified Flatpaks, Debian adds systemd-boot options, Redox adopts COSMIC desktop, OpenSSH gains new security features |
| • Issue 1073 (2024-06-03): LXQt 2.0.0, an overview of Linux desktop environments, Canonical partners with Milk-V, openSUSE introduces new features in Aeon Desktop, Fedora mirrors see rise in traffic, Wayland adds OpenBSD support |
| • Issue 1072 (2024-05-27): Manjaro 24.0, comparing init software, OpenBSD ports Plasma 6, Arch community debates mirror requirements, ThinOS to upgrade its FreeBSD core |
| • Issue 1071 (2024-05-20): Archcraft 2024.04.06, common command line mistakes, ReactOS imports WINE improvements, Haiku makes adjusting themes easier, NetBSD takes a stand against code generated by chatbots |
| • Issue 1070 (2024-05-13): Damn Small Linux 2024, hiding kernel messages during boot, Red Hat offers AI edition, new web browser for UBports, Fedora Asahi Remix 40 released, Qubes extends support for version 4.1 |
| • Issue 1069 (2024-05-06): Ubuntu 24.04, installing packages in alternative locations, systemd creates sudo alternative, Mint encourages XApps collaboration, FreeBSD publishes quarterly update |
| • Issue 1068 (2024-04-29): Fedora 40, transforming one distro into another, Debian elects new Project Leader, Red Hat extends support cycle, Emmabuntus adds accessibility features, Canonical's new security features |
| • Issue 1067 (2024-04-22): LocalSend for transferring files, detecting supported CPU architecure levels, new visual design for APT, Fedora and openSUSE working on reproducible builds, LXQt released, AlmaLinux re-adds hardware support |
| • Issue 1066 (2024-04-15): Fun projects to do with the Raspberry Pi and PinePhone, installing new software on fixed-release distributions, improving GNOME Terminal performance, Mint testing new repository mirrors, Gentoo becomes a Software In the Public Interest project |
| • Issue 1065 (2024-04-08): Dr.Parted Live 24.03, answering questions about the xz exploit, Linux Mint to ship HWE kernel, AlmaLinux patches flaw ahead of upstream Red Hat, Calculate changes release model |
| • Issue 1064 (2024-04-01): NixOS 23.11, the status of Hurd, liblzma compromised upstream, FreeBSD Foundation focuses on improving wireless networking, Ubuntu Pro offers 12 years of support |
| • Issue 1063 (2024-03-25): Redcore Linux 2401, how slowly can a rolling release update, Debian starts new Project Leader election, Red Hat creating new NVIDIA driver, Snap store hit with more malware |
| • Issue 1062 (2024-03-18): KDE neon 20240304, changing file permissions, Canonical turns 20, Pop!_OS creates new software centre, openSUSE packages Plasma 6 |
| • Issue 1061 (2024-03-11): Using a PinePhone as a workstation, restarting background services on a schedule, NixBSD ports Nix to FreeBSD, Fedora packaging COSMIC, postmarketOS to adopt systemd, Linux Mint replacing HexChat |
| • Issue 1060 (2024-03-04): AV Linux MX-23.1, bootstrapping a network connection, key OpenBSD features, Qubes certifies new hardware, LXQt and Plasma migrate to Qt 6 |
| • Issue 1059 (2024-02-26): Warp Terminal, navigating manual pages, malware found in the Snap store, Red Hat considering CPU requirement update, UBports organizes ongoing work |
| • Issue 1058 (2024-02-19): Drauger OS 7.6, how much disk space to allocate, System76 prepares to launch COSMIC desktop, UBports changes its version scheme, TrueNAS to offer faster deduplication |
| • Issue 1057 (2024-02-12): Adelie Linux 1.0 Beta, rolling release vs fixed for a smoother experience, Debian working on 2038 bug, elementary OS to split applications from base system updates, Fedora announces Atomic Desktops |
| • Issue 1056 (2024-02-05): wattOS R13, the various write speeds of ISO writing tools, DSL returns, Mint faces Wayland challenges, HardenedBSD blocks foreign USB devices, Gentoo publishes new repository, Linux distros patch glibc flaw |
| • Issue 1055 (2024-01-29): CNIX OS 231204, distributions patching packages the most, Gentoo team presents ongoing work, UBports introduces connectivity and battery improvements, interview with Haiku developer |
| • Issue 1054 (2024-01-22): Solus 4.5, comparing dd and cp when writing ISO files, openSUSE plans new major Leap version, XeroLinux shutting down, HardenedBSD changes its build schedule |
| • Issue 1053 (2024-01-15): Linux AI voice assistants, some distributions running hotter than others, UBports talks about coming changes, Qubes certifies StarBook laptops, Asahi Linux improves energy savings |
| • Issue 1052 (2024-01-08): OpenMandriva Lx 5.0, keeping shell commands running when theterminal closes, Mint upgrades Edge kernel, Vanilla OS plans big changes, Canonical working to make Snap more cross-platform |
| • Issue 1051 (2024-01-01): Favourite distros of 2023, reloading shell settings, Asahi Linux releases Fedora remix, Gentoo offers binary packages, openSUSE provides full disk encryption |
| • Issue 1050 (2023-12-18): rlxos 2023.11, renaming files and opening terminal windows in specific directories, TrueNAS publishes ZFS fixes, Debian publishes delayed install media, Haiku polishes desktop experience |
| • Issue 1049 (2023-12-11): Lernstick 12, alternatives to WINE, openSUSE updates its branding, Mint unveils new features, Lubuntu team plans for 24.04 |
| • Issue 1048 (2023-12-04): openSUSE MicroOS, the transition from X11 to Wayland, Red Hat phasing out X11 packages, UBports making mobile development easier |
| • Issue 1047 (2023-11-27): GhostBSD 23.10.1, Why Linux uses swap when memory is free, Ubuntu Budgie may benefit from Wayland work in Xfce, early issues with FreeBSD 14.0 |
| • Issue 1046 (2023-11-20): Slackel 7.7 "Openbox", restricting CPU usage, Haiku improves font handling and software centre performance, Canonical launches MicroCloud |
| • Issue 1045 (2023-11-13): Fedora 39, how to trust software packages, ReactOS booting with UEFI, elementary OS plans to default to Wayland, Mir gaining ability to split work across video cards |
| • Issue 1044 (2023-11-06): Porteus 5.01, disabling IPv6, applications unique to a Linux distro, Linux merges bcachefs, OpenELA makes source packages available |
| • Issue 1043 (2023-10-30): Murena Two with privacy switches, where old files go when packages are updated, UBports on Volla phones, Mint testing Cinnamon on Wayland, Peppermint releases ARM build |
| • Issue 1042 (2023-10-23): Ubuntu Cinnamon compared with Linux Mint, extending battery life on Linux, Debian resumes /usr merge, Canonical publishes fixed install media |
| • Issue 1041 (2023-10-16): FydeOS 17.0, Dr.Parted 23.09, changing UIDs, Fedora partners with Slimbook, GNOME phasing out X11 sessions, Ubuntu revokes 23.10 install media |
| • Issue 1040 (2023-10-09): CROWZ 5.0, changing the location of default directories, Linux Mint updates its Edge edition, Murena crowdfunding new privacy phone, Debian publishes new install media |
| • Issue 1039 (2023-10-02): Zenwalk Current, finding the duration of media files, Peppermint OS tries out new edition, COSMIC gains new features, Canonical reports on security incident in Snap store |
| • Issue 1038 (2023-09-25): Mageia 9, trouble-shooting launchers, running desktop Linux in the cloud, New documentation for Nix, Linux phasing out ReiserFS, GNU celebrates 40 years |
| • Issue 1037 (2023-09-18): Bodhi Linux 7.0.0, finding specific distros and unified package managemnt, Zevenet replaced by two new forks, openSUSE introduces Slowroll branch, Fedora considering dropping Plasma X11 session |
| • Full list of all issues |
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Q4OS is a Debian-based desktop Linux distribution designed to offer classic-style user interface (Trinity) and simple accessories, and to serve stable APIs for complex third-party applications, such as Google Chrome, VirtualBox and development tools. The system is also very useful for virtual cloud environments due to its very low hardware requirements.
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