 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 993, 7 November 2022 |
Welcome to this year's 45th issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
Some Linux distributions take an unusually minimal approach, providing the bare necessities in order to accomplish a task. One such streamlines distribution is Static Linux, a project which is not only small, but takes an unusual approach to installation. This week we begin with a look at Static Linux and how this curious project performs. In our News section we report on changes coming to Linux Mint which will simplify package management, especially when dealing with Flatpak packages. Plus, in this week's Questions and Answers column we explore what a distribution could do if it included just a kernel with no other utilities. All Linux distributions include some userland tools, software beyond the kernel, and in this week's Opinion Poll we'd like to hear from you. How many packages are included in your distribution? Plus we are pleased to share the torrents we are seeding along with the releases of the past week and details of the new versions below. We wish you all a wonderful week and happy reading!
Content:
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
Static Linux
One unusual project that was recently added to the DistroWatch waiting list is Static Linux. The project's website doesn't offer much information or documentation, but it does share the following description of what Static Linux is:
[A] Linux distribution based on Alpine Linux, musl libc, and Busybox. It comes with JWM, Firefox, Transmission, data recovery tools ddrescue, testdisk, [and] photorec. Kernel and the root filesystem are assembled in a single file to boot on systems with UEFI (Secure Boot is not supported).
Static Linux is available in two editions, X.Org and Wayland, which are sometimes referred to by the project as simply X and W. The download images for these editions are 222MB for the X.Org edition and 66MB for the Wayland edition. The difference in sizes, I feel it worth mentioning, are not just due to the display server software. The lists of included applications in the two editions vary too, which accounts for the bulk of the size difference.
Along with the available media, the distribution provides 206 packages (at the time of writing) which have been compiled for Static Linux. These packages cover a number of utilities and development tools, most of them intended for command line use. I'll talk more about the packages and working with them later.
Installing
Static Linux doesn't use a normal install method, such as running an installer from a live desktop or unpacking an archive. The downloads we're offered are designed to be booted directly from the hard drive. To set up Static Linux, we format a disk (either a hard drive or USB thumb drive) and place a partition on the disk formatted with the FAT32 filesystem. We then copy the Static Linux archive we downloaded, saving it on the formatted partition as /efi/boot/bootx64.efi. When our computer boots, it automatically locates this file and expands it into memory. The archive contains the Linux kernel, Busybox utilities, and other basic items required to launch the operating system.
I feel it's important to note Static Linux can be booted on machines running in UEFI mode only. The distribution will not be found and launched on computers running in Legacy BIOS mode.
Early impressions
I tested both editions of the Static Linux distribution. I started with the X.Org (X) edition which boots to a text console at first and then attempts to launch X.Org and Joe's Window Manager (JWM). The graphical environment failed to load, apparently due to either a permission or a missing driver issue. (Possibly both, based on a quick glance at the error log). Since JWM didn't successfully load I was left with a command line prompt. The system logged me in as a regular user, appropriately called "user". The sudo utility isn't included, but we can switch to the root account by using su and the password "root".
The distribution has around a gigabyte of utilities packed into its single-file archive and we can use remaining free space to download files and install packages. The distribution is quite light, requiring less than 100MB of RAM.
Static Linux's X.Org edition ships with version 5.15 of the Linux kernel. Version 5.18 of the kernel is included in the Wayland edition. The Busybox utilities are included too, though not much else. There are a few rescue utilities, such as photorec and ddrescue. There are no manual pages, meaning any help we receive will need to be found on-line. Though I didn't get to use it due to the lack of graphical interface, the project's website points out the X.Org edition of Static Linux ships with the Firefox web browser.
One interesting quirk of the distribution is exiting the command line shell will halt the system and power off the computer.
Wayland edition
When I switched to the Wayland (W) edition of Static Linux, the experience started out much the same way. The distribution's image file was placed on my drive, the system booted successfully to a text console, but then the system successfully and automatically launched the Lab Wayland Compositor (labwc). The labwc environment is basically a very minimal desktop environment with a panel at the bottom of the display with a few quick launch buttons and an open desktop space where we can right-click to open a terminal or exit the session. Like the X.Org edition, the Wayland edition (even when running labwc) consumes less than 100MB of RAM.
Static Linux 2022 -- Using Static Linux to download itself
(full image size: 25kB, resolution: 1024x768 pixels)
Unlike the X.Org edition of Static Linux, the Wayland edition does not ship with the Firefox web browser or bittorrent software, which probably makes up the bulk of the difference between the sizes of the two editions. The Wayland edition offers us a virtual terminal, the testdisk, photorec, and ddrescue software along with the Busybox utilities. That is about all that is available by default. If we want more software we need to turn to the Static Linux repository.
Software management
Earlier I mentioned the Static Linux project provides 206 packages in an archive on their website. These packages are simply listed, one per line, with their name and version, but no description. We're left to figure out for ourselves what atk, bison, and pcre are and whether we need these items. Each package is an APK file which is basically a tar archive.
I had thought, since Static Linux is reportedly based on Alpine Linux, the distribution might include the Alpine Linux package manager, but this does not appear to be the case. I could not find a package manager, documentation for installing packages, or a web browser (graphical or text-based) included with the distribution.
Since the APK packages are tar archives, I was able to download an index of the available software using wget, fetch specific files, and then unpack them with the tar program. The archives, when unpacked from the root directory, will install software into the /usr directory and other appropriate locations. Some programs are set with permissions which only allow them to be run as the root user and may need to have their permissions (or ownership) changed in order for them to be executable.
The base operating system resets when it is restarted. Which just means any changes we make to the system are lost when we reboot. We can get around this by setting up another partition, either on the USB thumb drive or on a local disk drive, and mounting it. For instance, I set up a persistent partition and mounted it under my home directory. This partition could then include hand written scripts to perform some basic actions, such as installing a package. The persistent partition can also hold programs which can be installed there to survive reboots. For instance, I set up a partition called disk in my Static Linux home directory. At each boot I could mount disk and add ~/disk/usr/bin to my user's path to run any programs I'd installed in past sessions.
Conclusions
While it is possible to work with this manual approach to persistence, I feel it worth noting Static Linux does not appear to be intended to be used across reboots. It's not an operating system which we install or on which we set up users. Static Linux is specifically geared toward accessing and rescuing data from local disks. Typically without many tools or conveniences. It's super light, highly portable, and (despite a weird setup process) is pretty easy to get started using.
The distribution offers virtually no documentation, no package manager, and on the Wayland edition there is no web browser. This makes the distribution quite limited. However, its small size and performance are appealing and I'm intrigued by the idea of the entire operating system booting from a single file. This is an unusual approach, but it seems to be working. While I had a few issues with the X.Org session, the Wayland edition worked well and, if the project would add a web browser (even a text-based one) to the Wayland session I could see it being a handy rescue tool that can be dropped on any thumb drive.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
Mint streamlines package management, elementary OS provides upgrades through Flatpak
The Linux Mint team has published their monthly newsletter which includes information on component updates and a streamlining of package management, especially when Flatpaks are used. "The code which lets you remove applications from the main menu was reviewed and password prompts were removed in situations where administrative permissions weren't required. Removing a Flatpak will no longer require a password to be entered. Same goes for simple shortcuts and local applications (i.e. applications which aren't installed system-wide). Synaptic and the Update Manager will now also ask pkexec to remember your password so you won't have to enter it every single time if you perform multiple operations. Flatpak support was added to the Update Manager. This allows Flatpak applications and runtimes to be updated like any other supported types of software."
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The elementary OS team has pushed their monthly newsletter which provides insights into changes coming to the distribution. Some of these changes include upgrades to Flatpak and, through Flatpak, GNOME packages. These upgrades will be available for elementary 6.1 users as well as people installing the upcoming 7.0 release. "Also to be expected soon is the latest Flatpak platform. Platform 7.1 is based on the GNOME 43 platform and brings a number of improvements for GTK 4. We're excited to get it published and available for use in your apps right away as well as updating the GNOME apps we ship to their latest releases. Thanks to the magic of Flatpak, OS 6.1 users can expect to receive this update as well."
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
What can you do with a kernel on its own?
Trying-understanding-the-kernel asks: Let's imagine that a computer has only the kernel installed and nothing else. What would work on the computer and what would not? To what extent could you use this computer? Would it be possible to communicate with the kernel? Would it be possible to install other programs?
DistroWatch answers: When an operating system is booting, the kernel is typically the first program that gets loaded into memory (with a few key exceptions like the computer's boot loader). The kernel has a special status. It typically gets locked into memory and is able to act as a controller for the entire operating system. The kernel in a modern operating system typically handles memory allocation, scheduling which programs run, passing information between processes, low level networking tasks, and talking to the computer's hardware.
The kernel acts as a middle layer between the hardware and the applications we run. It handles allocating resources, passing information between components, and talking to devices such as video cards.
The kernel, at least on modern operating systems, doesn't interact directly with the user. It doesn't prompt us for input, interpret commands, display a desktop, manage windows or any of the other things you actively interact with when you're using your computer.
If you had a computer with nothing but the kernel installed (for example, the Linux kernel) the computer would likely boot and its hardware would technically be initialized. But then the system would likely "panic", or lock up. The reason being the kernel needs to launch services in order for the operating system to be able to do anything useful. The kernel expects there to be programs - such as init, likely a service manager, and a command line shell - in order to accomplish anything. When no programs are installed, in particular the init software or a suitable substitute, then the kernel will bail out and bring the system to stop.
In short, a system with just a modern kernel installed on it can start-up, but then won't do anything. You wouldn't be able to interact with it, load programs, or install new software. There would be no software you could use or run and therefore you couldn't accomplish anything with the system. To do anything you'd need to add other programs to the hard drive. At the very least you would need a command line shell that would allow you to type commands. For a really minimal system you might want to set up something like Busybox which would give you a small core set of commands that would help you actually do some basic things on your system.
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Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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| Released Last Week |
Linux Lite 6.2
Linux Lite is an Ubuntu-based distribution intended to be easy for Linux beginners to use. The latest version of the distribution, Linux Lite 6.2, features an improved upgrade manager, new Papirus icons, and Openshot has been replaced by Shotcut in the Lite Software utility. Other changes include: "Fixed dialogue lengths of many Linux Lite applications. Fixed hostname bug in Lite Tweaks. Many updates to the Help Manual. The Hardware Database now has over 75,000 submissions. 100k here we come! Fixed bug in Lite Sources not populating the codename. Purging even more logs in Lite Tweaks, freeing up space. Latest stable versions of Chrome, LibreOffice, Lite applications, etc. New wallpapers. Task Manager (System Monitoring Center) right click now works everywhere, updated icon. Microsoft Teams removed from Lite Software, no longer maintained by Microsoft, instead, they will offer a PWA version only for Linux. Fixed Kernel Removal in Lite Tweaks...." Additional information and screenshots can be found in the project's release announcement.
Linux Lite 6.2 -- The welcome screen and application menu
(full image size: 231kB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
Nitrux 20221101
The Nitrux developers have published a new release which features updates to KDE Plasma, the Firefox browser and includes NVIDIA's proprietary video driver. "We've updated the following components of the distribution. For other information, see Notes. KDE Plasma to version 5.26.2, KDE Frameworks to version 5.99.0, and KDE Gear to version 22.08.2. Firefox to version 106.0.2. We've decided to add the NVIDIA Proprietary driver to the default installation, currently version 520.56.06, along with NVIDIA Prime, but not our X11 configuration. We've decided to change our policy about including this particular piece of proprietary software to make this distribution more accessible to users and to avoid creating a separate ISO file. The minimal ISO does not include the NVIDIA Proprietary driver, as we want to keep the size of the ISO image small. We're aware that NVIDIA had released an open-source driver, too; however, it only supports a handful of professional graphics cards and almost none of their consumer graphics cards." Additional information is provided in the distribution's release announcement. The announcement refers to the new version of Nitrux as 2.5.0 while the provided media is labelled using the date of the release: 20221101.
TrueNAS 13.0-U3 "CORE"
Will Soteros has announced the availability of a third update of TrueNAS CORE 13, version 13.0-U3. Formerly known as FreeNAS, TrueNAS CORE is a FreeBSD-based, open-source and community-supported software designed for NAS (Network-Attached Storage) computers. It uses the self-healing OpenZFS filesystem and is extensible by a variety of free plugins: "Building on the Enterprise quality of prior versions, the third update of TrueNAS 13 was released today. In addition to greater maturity and test coverage, Globally Distributed Storage provided by iX-Storj is also now included in this release. Compared to TrueNAS 12, TrueNAS 13 includes significant new components and has improved performance, scalability, and reliability in subsequent releases. In the two months since TrueNAS 13.0-U2 was released, it has already become the 2nd most deployed version of TrueNAS. TrueNAS 13.0-U3 builds on the maturity of the prior version with 30 bug fixes and security updates. It also includes enclosure management updates for the TrueNAS R50 Gen3, which was announced two weeks ago." See the release announcement and the release notes for detailed information about the product.
GParted Live 1.4.0-6
Curtis Gedak has announced the release of GParted Live 1.4.0-6, an updated build of the project's Debian-based specialist live CD designed for disk partitioning and data rescue tasks. This release updates the Linux kernel to version 6.0.6 and expands the included software with various useful items, such as Nmap or Samba client: "The GParted team is happy to announce a new stable release of GParted Live. This release includes GParted 1.4.0, updated packages and other improvements. Items of note include: based on the Debian 'Sid' repository as of 2022-11-03; Linux kernel image updated to 6.0.6; more packages added - this includes vim, pv, htop, bmon, nmon, zutils, pigz, xz-utils, zstd, zip, unzip, colordiff, xxd, vbindiff, cifs-utils, smbclient, nmap, xrdp, rdesktop, usbutils, vlan, parallel. This release of GParted Live has been successfully tested on VirtualBox, VMware, BIOS, UEFI and physical computers with AMD/ATI, NVIDIA and Intel graphics." Visit the project's news page to read the release announcement.
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 2,788
- Total data uploaded: 42.5TB
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) |
How many packages are installed on your distribution?
In this week's review of Static Linux we talked about a remarkably minimal distribution. Static includes very few packages, but there are smaller Linux distributions in the world. There are also many larger distributions, full of packages and features. This week we'd like to find out how many packages are currently installed on your distribution. Is it more than 1,000? More than 5,000? Let us know which distribution you are running and how many software packages are installed in the comments.
If you're unsure how to find out how many packages are installed on your system, please refer to our package management cheatsheet page to learn how to get a listing of packages on your distribution. Then run the result through the wc command. For example, you'll get a rough idea of how many packages are installed on Debian-based systems by running "dpkg -l | wc -l". The equivalent in the Arch Linux family is "pacman -Q | wc -l" and on RPM-based systems like Fedora you can use "rpm -qa | wc -l".
You can see the results of our previous poll on home directory permissions in last week's edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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How many packages are installed on your distro?
| 0-500: | 77 (5%) |
| 501-1000: | 134 (9%) |
| 1001-2500: | 575 (38%) |
| 2501-5000: | 300 (20%) |
| 5001-10000: | 47 (3%) |
| More than 10000: | 25 (2%) |
| I do not know: | 312 (21%) |
| I am not running a Linux distro: | 23 (2%) |
| I am not running a distro with traditional packages: | 11 (1%) |
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| Website News |
DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 14 November 2022. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Article Search page. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
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| Linux Foundation Training |
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • package count (by JeffC on 2022-11-07 01:17:14 GMT from United States)
When comparing different distros package count is very misleading.
Arch does not break up packages so one package will be quite large and contain many parts that the average user will never need.
Debian breaks up packages, so if you do not need debugging symbols you do not need to install them.
But Arch users will point to their neofetch and brag about how few packages they have installed, claiming how small Arch is compared to Debian.
2 • Pkgs installed (by Myst on 2022-11-07 01:29:18 GMT from Austria)
According to my package wrapper "sisyphus-gui", Redcore Linux (a Gentoo Flavour) 1804 pkgs,installed, that includes both binary & Src pkg's.
3 • Australia (by Richard on 2022-11-07 02:33:34 GMT from Australia)
Debian Plasma and BSPWM - 2238 packages
4 • Flatpak, Appimage and Snap: Linux's universal package managers. (by Greg Zeng on 2022-11-07 02:46:50 GMT from Australia)
Thank you for the link: https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=package-management
It might need updating.
> "However, experimental versions of Ubuntu use the new snap package manager."
Twenty "package managers" are listed for Linux (239 Linux brands), plus that for BSD (14 distributions in total, not just FreeBSD in the link).
The RPM confusion is disguised as usual. PCLOS is my preferred RPM based system. It uses the Synaptic Package manager, but it is probably one of the three RPM systems (urpmi).
Debian is the preferred Package manager (115 or 116), preferred by about half of the Linux system creators.
https://distrowatch.com/search.php?ostype=Linux&category=All&origin=All&basedon=Debian¬basedon=None&desktop=All&architecture=All&package=All&rolling=All&isosize=All&netinstall=All&language=All&defaultinit=All&status=Active#simple
https://distrowatch.com/search.php?ostype=Linux&category=All&origin=All&basedon=All¬basedon=None&desktop=All&architecture=All&package=DEB&rolling=All&isosize=All&netinstall=All&language=All&defaultinit=All&status=Active#simple
The three RPM systems are Red Hat (12, 5%) and others disguised in the Distrowatch listings as "Independent" (44, 18%), Total other RPM is about 28, 12%.
Flatpak initiated from Red Hat fans show 40 brands (17%) using this, by default, perhaps.
https://distrowatch.com/search.php?ostype=Linux&category=All&origin=All&basedon=All¬basedon=None&desktop=All&architecture=All&package=Flatpak&rolling=All&isosize=All&netinstall=All&language=All&defaultinit=All&status=Active#simple
Snap initiated by Canonical fans has 30 brands (13%).
Several other systems seem unknown to Distrowatch: AppImage & "compiling from source code". The most famous system of compiling is the Arch AUR system. Some Arch based systems do not completely trust this AUR system, so prefer to have their own independent repositories.
Distrowatch lists only three "Puppy" based systems are "alive". My private listings show as many as eleven, but not all are still alive.
Most Linux operating systems can be forced to use Flatpak, Appimage and Snap. Snap is limited because only "authorized" applications are allowed, similar to the locked jails offered by Apple. Most of the nine package managers recognized by Distrowatch, plus those ignored, are "open" for independent application publishers.
My research into computer applications which are published in the open market shows that creators are very confused about Linux operating systems. Linux is experimenting with three "universal" package managers. Only Flatpak might appeal. The other two have poor choice of selections.
Linux has yet to decide how-to organize many "updates": applications, kernels, dependent packages, choices of display managers, and complying with the user's preferred settings on update frequency and display interfaces.
The computer industry leader remains as Microsoft Windows. Notification, settings etc. are varied and optional. Installing and removal is so easy & quick, however, that computer malware can so easily be introduced. Application creators however like the bigger market place, and avoid the minority users on the "also-ran" operating system called Linux. Instead, application creators prefer (in numerical order): Windows, Apple, Android, and then perhaps the Debian compilation of Linux.
Other than the three preferred Linux containers, Linux has the problem of dependent packages, with their complex incompatibilities. The Debian package, the most preferred by the independent creators, is not perfect. This might explain the slowly increasing popularity of Flatpak.
5 • Just a kernel? (by uz64 on 2022-11-07 03:15:13 GMT from United States)
Not to mention, if you mean that TRULY *just* a kernel is installed... the kernel won't even boot if you don't have a bootloader installed and properly set up!
6 • package count (by Neil on 2022-11-07 03:41:20 GMT from United States)
Computer I'm using tonight is running Debian with KDE desktop, 3285 packages reported.
7 • packages Installed. (by Bobbie Sellers on 2022-11-07 03:49:50 GMT from United States)
On PCLinuxOS Forum the question was recently asked by the Packager with directions as
to using our update tool Synaptic to determine the matter. A simple matter of clicking the Status Button in the lower left side of the interface. Then answer is printed out in the border
under that set of buttons. I had 2134 packages installed. The packager and some of the testers and coders had over 4000 packages installed. It proved by the way to be a very popular topic and may be so for some time to come as quieter members of the forum
get to the site and review the older posts.
bliss
8 • Re: package count (by Dennis on 2022-11-07 04:25:22 GMT from Hong Kong)
That's exactly how I feel (after steadily rebuilding WSL distros on multiple machines for the last few months)!i
In my case, Manjaro & Devuan (Debian sans SystemD) shares almost the same set of packages (331 pacman v.s. 378 dpkg according to neofetch) as I hand-pick the packages and maintain an initial setup script, and Devuan even has a few more packages (exclusive to Debian-like like apt-listbugs, apt-listchanges, command-not-found, needrestart etc), yet the VHDX volume of Devuan is always (say, 0.4GiB) smaller than the Manjaro one.
The package count is even more misleading by slightly indicating the (wrong) fact that a smaller number means a smaller disk usage of installed packages. The most clutter-free distro among my GNU/Linux collection is... a Linux from Scratch (LFS) I built backed in September, and its size is over 3GiB (almost double of Devuan!). But I assure it is the fastest one as everything including building toolchain has maximum optimization... yet it actually only includes less than 100 packages.
9 • PKG counts VS distro type (by rb on 2022-11-07 05:06:45 GMT from United States)
I have used Linux for over 20 years. Debian/apt based mostly. I currently use ARCH as it meets my needs right now. I have 1296. That is not because ARCH lumps multiple packages into one huge package and Debian breaks them apart. That comment is just not true. You can easily have a leaner system on Arch than Debian based:
With Ubuntu, I have no choice but to keep most of KDE Plasma installed by default. Try to remove Elisa or Dragon Player for example to just use VLC, and apt tries to remove the whole Plasma desktop and then some because of dependencies.
On Arch, I simply install the packages I need for Plasma, nothing else. No bloat. Lean and hand selected. Nothing is installed by default.
Try removing Discover if you don't use it for updates on Ubuntu.
I found on Debian that hand picking which Plasma packages you want installed is not easy nor well documented. You have to literally go thru each Plasma meta package & make note of which packages that encompasses, then make a list.
10 • No. of pkgs (by 0323pin on 2022-11-07 06:07:08 GMT from Sweden)
On my Distro, Void with musllibc, 600 pkgs.
On my main machine, NetBSD current, 180 pkgs.
11 • packages (by Chris on 2022-11-07 06:12:06 GMT from South Africa)
Ubuntu MATE 22.10 (desktop, dual booting W10) 2565 packages (cw snap)
Linux Mint 21 (Lenovo Ideapad 300, dual booting W10) 2162 packages
Openmediavault (Thinkpad T520) 533 packages
12 • Lean, bloated or just right, Goldilocks? (by Trihexagonal on 2022-11-07 07:27:26 GMT from United States)
I only install the minimum ports/packages on my FreeBSD boxen that I deem necessary for general desktop purposes and one box varies little from the next. Occasionally installing something on one I don't need on them all or to try something else out.
On Kali GNU/Linux I install the full set of tools they have available and do not consider that bloat since they're programs I chose to install.
Of the three running right now, according to screenfetch, this Thinkpad W520 running FreeBSD 13.1 has 528 pkg installed. The W520 running FreeBSD 13.0 I use offline as my multimedia machine has 543 pkg,
The Thinkpad T400 running Kali 2022.3 has 4201 packages installed, according to screenfetch. The majority of them I've never used, and may even never look at, but are there at my convenience should I decide to.
On FreeBSD I mix ports and pkg as I see fit to install programs and never have an insurmountable problem doing so. On Kali I use apt and apt-get and have never had a problem I couldn't work through with them either.
All 3 have 8GB RAM. The T400 shows 6784M RAM free according to top. This W520 shows 3407M Free with YouTube video running in another tab. The offline W520 at idle shows 3853M RAM free.
However, the two different OS allocate free RAM differently. FreeBSD seeing free RAM as wasted RAM.
13 • package count (by speedytux on 2022-11-07 08:26:07 GMT from France)
1831 with Arch+KDE and 6 Flatpak's apps
14 • Number of Packages (by Dr.J on 2022-11-07 09:47:18 GMT from Germany)
Counting packages makes sense on the one hand, but on the other hand it doesn't. Why? I always try to keep the system lean, avoiding any unnecessary packages, because that reduces dependencies and potential bugs, so the number of packages is an end in itself. The other side is illustrated by just one example: Arch with systemd contains only three systemd packages. But I use runit instead of systemd and currently have 22 packages installed there. The reason is that runit separates individual services; they have to be downloaded, installed and enabled individually. In this respect, the sheer number of packages is not a good indicator of the simplicity of a system, because of course the bottom line is that runit is much simpler than systemd.
15 • how many packages (by eb on 2022-11-07 10:16:16 GMT from France)
on Slackware : cd /var/log/packages/ && ls | wc -l
(1182 for me). Thanks to Distrowatch.
16 • Package count (by DachshundMan on 2022-11-07 10:25:11 GMT from United Kingdom)
Mint 21 Mate: 2594, so rather more than @11 found on his Mint but he did not specify the desktop installed.
17 • Boot loader (by Jesse on 2022-11-07 12:24:17 GMT from Canada)
@5: "Not to mention, if you mean that TRULY *just* a kernel is installed... the kernel won't even boot if you don't have a bootloader installed and properly set up!"
This is true in a lot of situations, but not all. In fact, take a look at this week's review of Static Linux to see a distro that loads without a typical boot loader package installed.
18 • Package count (by Tim on 2022-11-07 13:04:51 GMT from United States)
I'm on Arch Linux and my package count is 726. This installation is a little over two years old and I have installed many extra packages for this or that.
19 • pkgcount (by brad on 2022-11-07 13:30:18 GMT from United States)
1398 - Manjaro
20 • 757 packages (by MInuxLintEbianDedition on 2022-11-07 14:57:32 GMT from United Kingdom)
757 is the number on my perfect model slimmed down lmde 5 for the asus eee pc 2G surf.
Anything up to 1300 packages on the lmde 5 asus eee pc 4G.
1554 on my main machine, because this one plays music AND movies.
21 • @#4 (by TexasJoe on 2022-11-07 15:48:12 GMT from United States)
Flatpak, Appimage and Snap
22 • No edit button (by TexasJor on 2022-11-07 15:53:08 GMT from United States)
Name three things I will never use.
Flatpak, Appimage and Snap
Some distros try to force these. But there are lots of distros.
23 • Package count (by David on 2022-11-07 17:14:15 GMT from United Kingdom)
On my PCLinucOS desktop I have 1912 packages; on my Debian laptop, 2233; both run Xfce. The Debian install has had default packages remove, while the PCLinuxOS has had extras installed — I don't know whether it would be reasonable to draw conclusions, though.
24 • package count (by Dennis on 2022-11-07 18:00:36 GMT from Sweden)
Currently 939 packages on my Gentoo install
25 • Arch Openbox (by Leo on 2022-11-07 20:18:22 GMT from Greece)
A mere 813 count. And I feel it's bloated
26 • Does package count really matter? (by Moat on 2022-11-07 20:50:12 GMT from United States)
Personally, I don't care too much re; "package count" - it's really only data taking up space on the hard drive. What matters more IMHO are the number of services/processes installed along with "packages" and enabled during boot-time to run in the background, as those are the things that will ultimately effect the computer's performance (CPU cycles, RAM, etc)... correct?
IOW; I'd rather have an application installed and not need it, rather than need it and not have it installed. Consequently, my installed systems end up pretty "bloated" in that regard, with lots of stuff added after the initial install. After all, it's my desktop computer, and I want to actually "do things" with it!!
What I'd *really* like to see, tho, is a universal GUI app to control (turn "on/off") said processes - for systemd as well as other inits. (Puppy had such an app included, IIRC). Yes - I'm terrible with the CLI and don't have the time/energy to learn it much (i.e.; typical desktop user).
Maybe an interesting poll would be the number of services/processes running after boot on user's systems...
Also, @12 re; free RAM as wasted RAM - I've always thought that makes sense. So a system showing relatively high RAM usage is not necessarily a bad thing. Maybe... One thing I *have* noticed over the years is how well Android handles (allocates, releases) RAM. I spend quite a bit of time doing general browsing/email/texts/etc on a cheap Android tablet with only 2 Gb RAM and am constantly impressed with how well it runs with such limited RAM and how quickly and completely it releases RAM when things fill up. I believe Linux in general may be able to learn a thing or two from Android in that respect.
27 • Service/process GUI app... (by Moat on 2022-11-07 21:04:01 GMT from United States)
What I mean above ^^^ re; a GUI app for controlling services/processes would be something roughly equivalent to the native services.msc in Windows (or optionally, the powerful Autoruns tool).
28 • Another example (by wdt on 2022-11-08 03:58:59 GMT from Canada)
I wonder if StaticLinux is a offshoot of OneFileLinux.efi, the latter is about 30M, cli only
29 • package count (by grapejuice on 2022-11-08 03:46:09 GMT from New Zealand)
Running RebornOS on an HP dv7, and neofetch reports 1745 packages installed.
30 • @24 nice number (by MInuxLintEbianDedition on 2022-11-08 05:12:56 GMT from United Kingdom)
any palindromic odd number with an odd number of digits is good :)
31 • Minimul Linux Distros (by penguinx86 on 2022-11-08 07:36:42 GMT from United States)
My main Linux distro is Linux Mint Xfce. I usually install a doxen packages after installing Mint. I have no idea how many packages are instralled by default. There are many packages that I never use, like Thunderbird email. I'd love a minimal distro where I can pick and choose what gets installed. But I choose Linux Mint because it's the ONLY distro that is compatible with the Wifi adapter in my laptop out of the box. Just give me a minimal distro with Gparted, Xfce, Wifi, sound, video, touchpad support and Synaptic and I can install everything else myself. But no Wifi is a dealbreaker. I tried installing many distros, only to find they are incompatible with my laptops Wifi adapter. That's why I always come back to Linux Mint
32 • Package count (by kc1di on 2022-11-08 14:16:53 GMT from United States)
My PCLinuxOS XFCE 1924 installed
My Kubuntu 22.04 KDE 2492
33 • # of Packages (by CSRoad on 2022-11-08 15:50:18 GMT from Canada)
Devuan Ceres, 2051 packages installed.
34 • how many packages (by thym on 2022-11-08 17:30:22 GMT from Greece)
In my Slackware box, 1602 packages installed.
But comparing number of packages between very different distros and very different individual setups does not add any great information. Any single user may add a ton of packages he supposedly needs for his special workflow.
"Bloat" has very little (or nothing) to do with the number of installed packages. What is installed matters and what it runs.
As long as there is enough free disk space.
35 • Pakidge (by Cheker on 2022-11-08 18:25:51 GMT from Portugal)
Manjaro - 1553 (pacman)
Artix - 1283 (pacman)
Q4OS - 2256 (dpkg), 8 (flatpak)
These installs aren't the same 1:1 but I do try to use the same programs as much as possible across everything. Interesting to see that disparity between the Archs and the Debian.
36 • Pakidge 2 Electric Boogaloo (by Cheker on 2022-11-08 18:27:34 GMT from Portugal)
Forgot the DEs, might also help paint the picture... Manjaro and Artix XFCE, Q4OS Trinity.
37 • Peter Piper picked a peck of Packages (by Harry the Lizard on 2022-11-09 09:47:11 GMT from United States)
How many packages in my distro? Enough.
38 • #37right on (by Jimmy Blake on 2022-11-09 16:59:54 GMT from United States)
I'm with you. I have enough packages to run my system the way I need to.
Don't understand everyone giving the exact numbers. What's the point. I have more than you or look how few packages I have installed.
39 • agree (by enough on 2022-11-10 00:37:46 GMT from Australia)
@38 agree with you and the comments made by @12 @26 and @37 as well - seems to be another measuring competition because 'bloat' and 'minimalism', whatever the latest definitions of those are (those definitions seem to be in the eye of the beholder).
I have everything I need on my system, and probably a few things I don't use but who knows, maybe one day I will and they'll be there (and if I need anything else on top of all that I'll just install it).
I couldn't care less, the computer runs well and I can use it for whatever I need. Even with my old low-spec machine, I'm not worried about a gigabyte or three - the distro itself takes up a small enough part of what I have on here (a couple of movies take up more space by themselves).
Likewise with RAM as @12 and @26 suggested - if it's there to be used, then I'm happy it is. @26 makes a good point about Android and how good a job it does in releasing RAM if you need it.
40 • Gentoo Packages Installed (by Andy Figueroa on 2022-11-10 04:35:27 GMT from United States)
My primary desktop. Command should not require root.
$ emerge -cp | grep -i installed
Packages installed: 1296
41 • Microsoft/Intel Roadblocks... (by Jim Mulkey on 2022-11-10 21:33:04 GMT from United States)
I recently bought a Dell 7060 with an i5-8500 and an HP 800 with an i7-8700. Both were refurbished Windows machines. I ran into more trouble than I expected when I tried to install Linux. I used Ubuntu 22.10 but it took 15 or 20 tries to get it installed, then it wouldn't boot! It all seemed to relate to Microsoft and Intel roadblocks to prevent installing Linux. I tried again with Ubuntu 20.04 and finally got the Dell working. I haven't tried 20.04 on the HP, but I may get it working, too. I've done this hundreds of times, and it keeps getting harder with each new generation of Microsoft and Intel.
42 • @41, Microsoft/Intel Roadblocks... (by Harry the Lizard on 2022-11-11 08:55:47 GMT from United States)
Have no idea what roadblocks you are talking about. I run 7th, 8th and 10th generation Intel machines without issues either installing or running. I am writing in an Intel NUC with Debian and Windows 11 running happily side by side. It's run Ubuntu, Manjaro and EndeavourOS previously.
Number of Comments: 42
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