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1 • SpiralLinux (by Tech in San Diego on 2022-10-03 00:53:10 GMT from United States)
I agree with the authors assessment of SpiralLinux in that there is nothing new to see here from other Debian based distributions. The one notable difference that I found useful was that SpiralLinux comes with all the necessary codecs out of the box which saves the user a considerable amount of time with hunting down and installing the required software, unlike Debian or openSUSE.
2 • Spiral Linux (by Reyfer on 2022-10-03 01:11:25 GMT from Venezuela)
To all the people asking for a "rolling release" of Spiral, I don't know if you have actually read the front page on the distro's web site. I have two machines running Spiral right now, one with the provided stable base, the other I just followed the directions given on the web page and in just 4 clicks and a reload and upgrade on Synaptic, that machine is now on Testing, so I don't see how difficult it can be. Let the developer provide a stable, well rounded base and you can turn it into "rolling"
3 • Debian vote (by Pedro on 2022-10-03 01:26:52 GMT from United States)
An uncompromising beacon of freedom has died today. And all over the net all I see is celebration. The same people will probably dance on RMS's grave when his day comes. I knew anti-freedom, pro-authoritarian leanings are rising globally in politics but I'm shocked to see those leanings in the Debian community.
4 • SpiralLinux rolling (by Monroe on 2022-10-03 01:39:13 GMT from United States)
Thanks @2 for the info in making SpiralLinux into rolling Testing. I really lie GeckoLinux and will try Spiral as well. I think I might try Cinnamon since I haven't in a long time.
@3 I'm unsure what died today or what your referring to. A link would have been helpful.
5 • SpiralLinux (by SpiralLinux on 2022-10-03 01:43:11 GMT from United States)
Hi Jesse, creator of SpiralLinux here. Thanks a lot for the coverage, and I'm glad that it behaved itself fairly well in your testing.
So, regarding unique features in SpiralLinux, I'm surprised you didn't test the Btrfs / Snapper / GRUB integration. I think the fact that it offers automatic integration of Btrfs snapshots bootable from the GRUB menu with the possibility of easy rollback is a major feature. To my knowledge, it's the only Debian-based OS to offer this functionality out-of-the-box. This is possible to configure in a vanilla Debian installation too, but it requires a very specific (and non-standard) Btrfs subvolume scheme and in general is extremely non-intuitive and requires a huge amount of tutorials and troubleshooting to set up correctly by hand.
Another unique feature is that, to my knowledge, SpiralLinux is the only Linux spin built from Debian Stable but with the Debian Backports kernel on top of it, which could make the difference between booting and not booting on very new hardware. This makes using Debian Stable much more viable for those users, as the rest of the system apart from the kernel is Debian Stable packages by default, but with a much newer kernel. Regarding the 5.18 vs 5.19 kernel, I'm sure the Debian Backports folks will update it soon. It should be noted that SpiralLinux does not create its own packages or maintain its own repositories to avoid creating a dependence on me as the only maintainer. All packages come directly from official Debian repos. So the security and long term viability of an installed system is entirely dependent on Debian, and I am completely removed from the picture.
On the topic of hardware support, I would appreciate feedback from users with Broadcom and Realtek WiFI hardware, which is normally a royal pain to get working in Linux, and which I have tried to support in SpiralLinux. I just don't have any hardware to test it with.
SpiralLinux also enables the little-known Debian FastTrack repository by default to provide VirtualBox support out-of-the-box for guest installations and for installing VirtualBox on hosts, which as far as I know is the only spin built from Debian to do so. It should be noted that Debian Testing does not offer VirtualBox packages, and the FastTrack repo isn't compatible with Testing. But Debian Unstable does offer VirtualBox in its main repos without FastTrack.
I would also like to bring out SpiralLinux goes to a lot of effort to theme Flatpaks, which is somewhat difficult to get right in the case of GTK apps, and extremely hard to configure for Qt apps. I place a high value on legible fonts and usable widget styles, so that was an important aspect that I spent a lot of effort to get right for SpiralLinux. In other distros Flatpaks stand out like a sore thumb, whereas I can actually enjoy using them in SpiralLinux, and they can help to make the peace and quiet of a reliable and unchanging Debian Stable installation much more viable for users that want a static base system but need some newer applications.
Finally, regarding the poll, I considered adding a Rolling branch, but decided against it for the following reasons: First of all, Debian Testing and Unstable are not really intended for public consumption; they are as their name suggests development branches that lead eventually to a Stable Debian release, unlike other distros that set out to offer an actual rolling *release*. I would say that openSUSE Tumbleweed in the form of GeckoLinux Rolling is still a better rolling release for users that want or need a rolling distro. With that said, Debian Testing and Unstable do work very well for some users, and the SpiralLinux documentation offers a simple GUI procedure thanks to Synaptic and some preinstalled but disabled repository entries to easily upgrade the installed system to Testing or Unstable without using the terminal. A dedicated SpiralLinux branch built from Testing or Unstable would still be out of date within a few weeks after its release and would require a subsequent update after installation with a large download and tons of package upgrades anyway, so it wouldn't be much different from following the procedure in the documentation for upgrading a SpiralLinux installation from Stable.
I would encourage both interested and skeptical readers to review the SpiralLinux website, which explains what its unique features are and why it exists in this crowded field of Debian-based systems. Thanks again for the review and coverage! Best wishes to everyone.
6 • SpiralLinux and Snapper (by Lynx65 on 2022-10-03 01:56:47 GMT from Mexico)
"However, the flip side of my evaluation is I don't feel SpiralLinux is doing anything innovative or different compared to other desktop-oriented members of the Debian family."
I usually enjoy Jesse's reviews and find them quite useful; however, I was disappointed to see he didn't mention or tested SpiralLinux's ability to leverage btrfs with "automatic Snapper snapshots bootable via GRUB for easy rollbacks". IIRC, he has praised openSUSE for similar functionality, and it's not something you can find in other Debian spins or derivatives.
7 • Debian and RMS (or FSF) (by Charlie on 2022-10-03 02:01:18 GMT from Hong Kong)
@3
Debian actually never fulfills the FSF or RMS' guidelines regarding software freedom. It provides a non-free repository and it already has an unofficial iso image with non-free firmware, which is actually also provided by the Debian community but without official state.[1]
So no, Debian is never the "uncompromising beacon".
For a real free distro according to FSF, you may refer to the following:
https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html
[1] https://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html
8 • Rollbacks (by Jesse on 2022-10-03 02:33:42 GMT from Canada)
@6: "I usually enjoy Jesse's reviews and find them quite useful; however, I was disappointed to see he didn't mention or tested SpiralLinux's ability to leverage btrfs with "automatic Snapper snapshots bootable via GRUB for easy rollbacks". IIRC, he has praised openSUSE for similar functionality, and it's not something you can find in other Debian spins or derivatives."
Glad you usually enjoy the reviews. Thanks.
I have praised Btrfs snapshots and rollbacks on openSUSE and a few other projects. (The most recent was Garuda.) The reason I've praised those projects for including snapshots and not Spiral was, basically, Debian's Stable branch - the basis for Spiral - doesn't need it.
openSUSE Tumbleweed and Garuda are both rolling releases and openSUSE Leap upgrades relatively quickly, around once a year. In those situations Btrfs snapshots make a lot of sense and are likely to save you headaches on a regular basis.
SpiralLinux is based on Debian Stable which has a major upgrade every five years and, outside of that time, will almost never introduce feature changes. Having APT automate a snapshot doesn't help you with Debian because Debian only applies security updates for its five year life span. You'll probably never need to rollback.
I think a rear wing makes a lot of sense on a race car, I wouldn't praise putting it on a farm tractor.
9 • SpiralLinux and Snapper (by Lynx65 on 2022-10-03 02:52:14 GMT from Mexico)
@8: Thanks for your response; it makes a lot of sense.
I'm running SL on the Testing branch and, while it's been quite stable so far, I might one day need the safety net that Snapper provides. I get you were reviewing the official, stable release.
@5: Keep up the good work!
10 • Rollbacks (by SpiralLinux on 2022-10-03 03:07:27 GMT from United States)
@8 Thanks Jesse for the reply. It's true that rollbacks will probably not be needed on a Stable system. However, upgrades to Testing or Stable are specifically listed as an easy option for SpiralLinux installations, and those systems will almost surely run into a major Debian bug at some point. Also it should be noted that Snapper is not only active for the root filesystem; it has a separate profile for the /home subvolume, and it's very useful to be able to have an automatic timeline of the users' home directories in the very likely event of user error (deleting files, messing up a dot config file, etc).
11 • @8 Rollbacks (by Andy Prough on 2022-10-03 03:21:16 GMT from Switzerland)
@Jesse - >"SpiralLinux is based on Debian Stable which has a major upgrade every five years and, outside of that time, will almost never introduce feature changes. Having APT automate a snapshot doesn't help you with Debian because Debian only applies security updates for its five year life span. You'll probably never need to rollback."
Unless you know something I don't know (which is quite possible), I'm going to assume that you meant that Debian stable has a major upgrade every ~2 years.
However, I agree with your premise. I never bother with btrfs and snapper on long-term release distros. What I prefer is the antiX ISO Snapshot tool, as it gives me a complete live ISO of my system that I can use on a USB or take to install on any other system. That's actually useful. Rollbacks of an already stable distro? Not so useful. If things go horribly bad just re-install and within a few minutes you are back up and running. And I can't recall the last time things went so horribly bad on any system that wasn't Arch-based.
12 • SpiralLinux (by Paul_y on 2022-10-03 05:50:25 GMT from Romania)
I downloaded SpiralLinux Budgie desktop iso and used balenaEtcher to make a bootable usb thumb drive; trying to boot up SpiralLinux in a BIOS machine failed with error: "Light Display Manager could not start.".
BIOS computer specifications:
Intel Pentium processor e5400
Board Gigabyte g31m-es2l, Award Software International, Inc. BIOS
Intel G33 GMA
Intel HD Audio
13 • Spiral roll (by Nicky-no-nose on 2022-10-03 05:55:37 GMT from United States)
I'm running Spiral testing. Going by the comments, I've put a turbo on my tractor. Since I tend to stumble into things rather than RTFM, I just edited /etc/apt/sources.list. No btrfs or snapshots. I ride bareback. I did have to go back to the 5.10 kernel because Virtualbox isn't playing nice with the latest ones. Browsers and other apps keep crashing on the guests. That served as a prod to start using KVM, which has become easier to use these days.
14 • @7 (by Jabba on 2022-10-03 08:30:32 GMT from Italy)
I checked GNU FSF's list, half of mentioned distros are inactive or abandoned, included recommended gNewSense.
I suppose FSF would have more chances to have users trusting GNU's freedom if there were many more distros to do so.
15 • Spiraled out (by Wonko the sane on 2022-10-03 09:40:12 GMT from Austria)
So we can use BTRFS and have a green background like another well known distro. Have a choice of kernels to boot with, like several other well known distros.
Have a lot of fanbois (influencers) raving so I gave it a test install.
.
Quickly Went back to tried tested and trusted MX because I couldn't see the point and I dislike green screen background. MX also brings a very useful advanced tool set. Why BTRFS Rollback when I can create an ISO from my system in a couple of clicks, put it on a live USB stick and carry and use it pretty much anywhere. And restore my system from it in a couple of minutes. Longer time on slower systems but just as reliable.
16 • @5 (by Rick on 2022-10-03 09:55:29 GMT from United States)
Thank you for all the work you put into making Debian installs better. The extra details and installation flavors are a welcome addition that makes Debian a little quicker and easier to setup and get going.
17 • Debian (by Jesse on 2022-10-03 10:36:36 GMT from Canada)
@11: Unless you know something I don't know (which is quite possible), I'm going to assume that you meant that Debian stable has a major upgrade every ~2 years"
While it is true Debian puts out a new release about once every two years, in my comment I was talking about support cycles. Debian Stable typically gets support for five years.
18 • Spiral Linux (by James on 2022-10-03 10:37:31 GMT from United States)
Should Spiral Linux have a rolling release?
That is up to the developers. A better question might have been:
If Spiral Linux had a rolling release, would you use that release?
That question might actually help the developers decide whether to develop one.
19 • @15 (by Reyfer on 2022-10-03 13:12:08 GMT from Venezuela)
"Quickly Went back to tried tested and trusted MX because I couldn't see the point and I dislike green screen background."
I guess some people still after all these years of Linux have not found a way to change backgroud image
20 • Spiral Linux (by Jim on 2022-10-03 13:26:53 GMT from United States)
Appreciate the review of Spiral Linux. I stumbled on this new distro a few months ago and decided to test it out in a VM. I agree with all your comments regarding the positive characteristics of the distro, and I understand your perspective that it "brings nothing new" to the table, although I disagree.
As a personal preference, I like to stay close to the "source" distro, and Spiral does that. MX is a fine distro, but they include several home-brew scripts and apps. Spiral does not, but as the developer points out, it eliminates reliance on HIM to maintain those tools. That's a strength, IMO.
I have spent MANY man-hours customizing my vanilla Debian installation to my liking. Including software packages, configurations, and proprietary codecs & firmware that makes my system perfect for me. (Isn't that the entire basis for the ethos of Linux?) Spiral Linux does most of that for me OOTB! If setting up a new installation was a 100-yard dash, Spiral shortened my sprint into a 20-yard dash to setup my system. That's a strength, IMO.
About the only thing I need to do is change the aesthetics. Comments about that green wallpaper are fair (also not a fan!), but changing that is so simple that it takes less effort to change it than to complain about it.
Comments about Btrfs rollback on Debian Stable are valid, but the developer's logic for inclusion (anticipating users who switch distro to Testing or Unstable branches) makes perfect sense. And it's not "in the way" of Stable users.
IMO, Spiral is the closest thing to a "perfect" distro in Linux. If there's one thing I would like to see in Spiral, it's a remaster/iso tool. I deploy my customized distro, perfect for me, across a small 6-computer home network, and I like homogeneity, for troubleshooting and maintenance. Ever since Remastersys was abandoned, numerous forks of this tool is hit or miss on various distros. MX does this well, but is maintained by MX devs. I'd like to see that (or something similar) in Spiral, but that wouldn't remain true to Debian repos.
For me, that's the ONLY thing keeping Spiral from being perfect. But with all the time I save setting up my system, I can probably spare a few moments to install Refracta tools or Penguins Eggs in a DEB package to provide that functionality.
I appreciate the niche this distro fills, and I'll be switching to Spiral as my new "base" distro for my own customized personal remix. KUDOS to the developer, and please continue to maintain and polish this fine offering! THANK YOU!
21 • Spiral (by Tad Strange on 2022-10-03 13:30:42 GMT from Canada)
I'd been trying Spiral in a few places since a commentator mentioned it a few months back. I thought it a pretty nice way to get a Debian system running, without much fuss or bother.
I did try to upgrade to Testing, once, but something broke along the way. Other than the minor annoyance of the old version KDE, I'm also of the opinion that there's a lot of value in tracking the stable branch, especially with the mentioned quality of life adjustments to repositories, etc. which means less fuss and bother for me.
Leave the rolling releases and dabbling with the Sid branch to the myriad of other distros that already specialise in this.
22 • Spiral Linux (by Az4x4 on 2022-10-03 13:56:44 GMT from United States)
I agree with Jesse's comments about Spiral Linux. After installing its 'Mate' edition on an older ASUS i7 Zenbook, I found it mostly pleasant to work with, not a lot different from LMDE, but not quite as polished feeling.
Spiral's developer has made his presence known with this release. Depending on where the project goes from here, if it can establish a somewhat unique identity, like Linux Mint and MX-Linux have done, we'll be hearing about it for a long time to come..
23 • Spiral (by Kazlu on 2022-10-03 15:46:52 GMT from France)
Joining @20 here when they point out that "Spiral does not [include home-brew scripts and apps], but as the developer points out, it eliminates reliance on HIM to maintain those tools. That's a strength, IMO." Spiral is technically a Debian respin, not a distro. Surprisingly enough I feel like it has not been that common lately and I definitely see the appeal. Happy MX Linux user here, not going anywhere, but should anything become a problem to me Spiral is probably where I would land.
I did not try it myself but there is a big point I am seeing from Jesse's review: Language setting seems to be a headache. This can be a deal-breaker very early on for the billions of people who do not speak English around there. This is too bad since the distro does in fact have language support, only the setting part may be difficult. But if you need to understand English to set your system to another language, it kind of defeats the purpose. Most live distros I tried offer language choice at boot time through a menu.
24 • Old computers (by David on 2022-10-03 16:12:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
Finding a distro for an older computer is not as simple as just using the search page. I have a computer with the Banias version of the Pentium M. That chip belongs to the i686 family, but needs a kernel compiled for the i586. Actually, it just needs a non-PAE kernel , but you can't search for that. AntiX and Sparky would not be found, as they're listed as 686 although they will run on a 586. Incidentally, Debian is listed as 386, although Wikipedia says they dropped that in 2005.
25 • @20 (by Derek on 2022-10-03 16:24:40 GMT from United States)
Exactly what Spiral is about from what I'm reading. Pure Debian with less tinkering.
26 • @24 - non-PAE distros (by Uncle Slacky on 2022-10-03 16:53:54 GMT from France)
Bodhi Linux still provides a non-PAE "Legacy" distro (based on Ubuntu 18.04):
https://www.bodhilinux.com
27 • Spiral (by Wonko the sane on 2022-10-03 18:09:24 GMT from Romania)
19 • @15 (by Reyfer on 2022-10-03 13:12:08 GMT from Venezuela)
"Quickly Went back to tried tested and trusted MX because I couldn't see the point and I dislike green screen background."
I guess some people still after all these years of Linux have not found a way to change backgroud image
Please start brain.exe. The comment referred to what the tested distro offered over debian/
Mz conclusion a grween background....
28 • non-pae distros (by pengxuin on 2022-10-03 18:12:32 GMT from New Zealand)
@24. I have an Athlon xp2400+ system (circa 2003) *running* on Mageia8, so there is another Linux system to look at. your Pentium M Banias was released in 2009, so several generations later.
ok, *running* might not be correct, walking?
29 • Debian Nonfree (by CorpSouth on 2022-10-03 18:57:57 GMT from United States)
@3 You want to be truly free in the UNIX space? Make your own distribution from scratch and answer to nobody. Right now you're spouting deluded hysteria.
30 • 32bit computers (by 32bit on 2022-10-03 20:15:34 GMT from Isle of Man)
On the topic of operating systems for 32 bit computers, I have a couple of old 32 bit laptops and I tried out a number of Linux OS's finally settling on Ubuntu mate 16.04.6. It's fully featured and runs great. Surprisingly I could find it listed on the search link Jessie provided in the Q&A section above. Just saying.
31 • @29 (by Simon on 2022-10-03 20:23:08 GMT from New Zealand)
You accuse Pedro of "spouting deluded hysteria" and claim that to be "truly free" you can simply "make your own distribution from scratch and answer to nobody". That's the delusion: the naive fantasy that the millions of lines of code in a modern operating system can be maintained by an individual who answers to nobody. The only reason an individual (or huge team like the Ubuntu community, for that matter) can produce a modern GNU/Linux OS is because they start with the work of thousands of other developers... many of them Debian developers... to whom they must answer either by accepting their development choices, persuading them to correct them, or investing the time in coding around them. Your naive understanding of OS development imagines a situation in which you can be "truly free" by either (1) using millions of lines of ancient, insecure, unmaintained FOSS code to attempt single-handedly to keep up with the development of the thousands of components of a modern OS, or (2) spending your life attempting continually to untangle free software from millions of lines of patent-laden proprietary code dumped on you daily by upstream developers. Pedro's concerns are legitimate and important. The reason genius developers like RMS (who not only coded the GCC that was used to build most of our free software, but also coded the GPL that established the social conditions for its spread) advocate for free software, and folk like you hurl insults at them and call them "deluded" and "hysterical", is simply that genius developers like RMS understand the processes of software development really well, while folk like you don't.
32 • SpiralLinux (by neitherfishnorfowl on 2022-10-03 20:54:04 GMT from United States)
I have used GeckoLinux. When I had a question, the developer was quick to answer. Not all distributions can make this claim.
Speaking as someone who has laptops with Broadcom and Realtek wireless, I really like the bit about SpiralLinux using current Debian code with a more recent kernel. I disagree with the inflexible approach of Debian and other distributions.
I'm going to test SpiralLinux MATE with my Broadcom laptop (the Realtek one is a PITA). If I have any concerns, I'll post in the appropriate Github forum.
33 • @3: Debian is not the cause of the freedom issue (by Matt on 2022-10-03 21:38:51 GMT from United States)
Companies exist that build hardware designed to run a free OS and free firmware/BIOS. If people would buy such hardware, you wouldn't need to use the non-free bits Debian decided to include.
If you can't buy free hardware, then avoiding the villains of the tech industry is a good second choice. Google is at the top of my personal list for anti-freedom and anti-privacy. Also on my list is Twitter, Facebook, Microsoft, and a number of other companies.
If someone needs to use non-free firmware to get Debian working on their computer, it seems to me a win overall for privacy and freedom. Debian still allows you to avoid most of the real freedom issues, like Microsoft watching and controlling everything you do on your computer and Google keeping track of everything you do on the internet.
34 • Existence proofs (by CS on 2022-10-03 21:49:52 GMT from United States)
@31 the insults are over the top, especially when there are dozens, probably more than 100, distributions mentioned on this very site maintained by a single developer.
@33 I remember back in 2003 or so when a graybeard yelled at me saying that if I wanted Linux to work easily I should buy compatible hardware. It was the computer the company gave me! We don't always have the luxury of choosing hardware before software.
35 • Do one thing in an exemplarily fashion (by Trihexagonal on 2022-10-03 21:56:43 GMT from United States)
I've never used Spiral Linux and likely never will, but am of the opinion they should stick to one release and get that right.
To give it a reason for existing in a Sunlight starved forest already thick with dead trees.
That said, I really enjoy using the Kali rolling-release system with apt.
36 • Spiral Linux is an out. (by The Linux Revolution on 2022-10-04 00:52:24 GMT from United States)
It seems it has failed to be mentioned that what Spiral Linux has is a true Debian base that is polished with no reliance on Ubuntu deciding to sell out to said larger corporation. Even Linux Mint team will not commit to LMDE as being a defacto distribution. So what we have is Spiral Linux to fill that void. A truly supported polished distribution based on Debian without the fear of being bought out by larger corps.
37 • SpiralLinux (by SpiralLinux on 2022-10-04 01:16:04 GMT from Ecuador)
Hi again, thanks for the many positive comments, I'm really glad to see that SpiralLinux is filling a need.
@23 You're absolutely right about the importance of supporting the billions of non-English speakers out there. SpiralLinux doesn't have perfect language support out-of-the-box yet, but it's not as bad as it sounds. Basically, the user can set the Calamares installer to their language of choice, and the installed system will come up almost completely translated in that language. (There seems to be a small bug in some config files I included with the KDE edition that currently requires the user to manually activate their preferred language after installation in the KDE settings, but fortunately it's just a few easy clicks, and I'll get that fixed in a future release.) What Jesse mentioned about the additional language packs in Synaptic is only for the oddball programs that don't come with additional language support included in their main Debian packages, the most important ones are LibreOffice, Firefox, and Thunderbird, plus non-English spellcheck dictionaries.
@32 Thanks in advance for the tests! Please let me know over on the Github forum how it went, including with the Realtek hardware. It has a moderate chance of success with that too.
38 • SpiralLinux and Ext4 (by flyingalone on 2022-10-04 03:25:01 GMT from Australia)
About week ago 29-09 installed SpiralLinux KDE on Ext4 took the option for have swap.
Realtek WIFI tested and works a OK
Might be bit better than GeckoLinux KDE on Intel CoffeeLake hardware
Definitely a good choice for LTS.
39 • SpiralLinux (by GreginNC on 2022-10-04 03:57:17 GMT from United States)
Having used GeckoLinux and being impressed with it I'll certainly try out SpiralLinux. Since #2 pointed out how simple it is to switch Spiral to a rolling release I guess there's no point in them making a separate release. I will say however that testing is probably the way to go. I've tried several distros based on unstable and while all worked fine for a while all eventually developed major problems, at least major enough I didn't care to deal with them. I've never had any issue with testing.
40 • @34 (by Simon on 2022-10-04 04:31:24 GMT from New Zealand)
Single-developer distros are maintained about 99.99% by the wider community (e.g. Debian); 00.01% by the developer who takes their work and distributes it as a (sometimes) nice coherent OS. If those people doing 99.99% of the work flush software freedom down the toilet, there's no heroic single developer who's going to somehow undo that and make it all free again. As one of the largest FOSS projects, Debian's attitude towards software freedom matters, and every time it takes another step towards a Windows-like OS, the huge community of ex-Windows users on Linux cheers them on. I don't agree entirely with Pedro's position (I don't regard Debian as "an uncompromising beacon of freedom"), but I took issue with CorpSouth's dismissing it as "deluded hysteria" and suggesting that a DIY distro provides some kind of "true freedom" independent of the larger community. It doesn't: small distro maintainers stand on the shoulders of the likes of Debian, so when Debian signals a softening of its stance on software freedom, that matters to single-developer distros too.
41 • SpiralLinux (by SpiralLinux on 2022-10-04 04:56:19 GMT from Czechia)
@38 Very nice! Really glad to hear it's working well. Do you happen to know the exact model of your Realtek WiFI?
@39 Glad to hear you liked GeckoLinux too. I'd say that openSUSE Tumbleweed as configured in GeckoLinux Rolling is probably the best rolling release out there, although I've never used Debian Testing or Unstable for the long term.
42 • @DistroWatch (by BSDER on 2022-10-04 05:59:34 GMT from United States)
I love Distro Watch, I just wish Distro Watch would do more reviews on independently produced operating systems. There is always one after another distro based on another distro, sometimes based on another distro.
I want to see re-reviews on independent distros and bsds. All the classic stuff.
43 • SpiralLinux remaster (by zcatav on 2022-10-04 10:49:44 GMT from Turkey)
@20 Spiral Linux (by Jim
If I remember correctly SpiralLinux-XXXXX.tar.gz script build related XXXXX desktop version of SpiralLinux. You can modify it according to your needs and create your own linux distribution.
@5 SpiralLinux, isn't it?
44 • Linux Kernel 6.0 (by Ulysse on 2022-10-04 11:36:37 GMT from France)
I've installed Linux Kernel in my Dell Precision 7510
= no problem for install with DEB package
Now, for me i will want be help to make a big update for using Linux correctly for becoming a Linux developper
Linus Torvalds is the best and good developper for me since 1991 because I born in 1993
Thank to him and together of Linus Programmer in World
Best Regards
Ulysse
45 • Debian (by Anis on 2022-10-04 11:54:06 GMT from Germany)
Debian is my favorite distro and has been for quite some time. However I remember how hard it was picking the appropriate ISO image 15 years ago due to the lack of experience therefore i think it is positive step towards the right direction. I believe it is best to allow the user to decided for themselves if they would prefer to use non-free software/firmware. By giving the user these options they will be able to have a greater amount of freedom. And for those who dont like the desion there is always Trisquel (https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=trisquel)
And as a side note: I usually download the non-free ISO image anyway. I would be interesting to see the downloads stats, is the non-free ISO downloaded more or less often?
46 • SpiralLinux (by SpiralLinux on 2022-10-04 12:20:31 GMT from Netherlands)
@43 Yes, I do uploaded the Debian live-build configurations for SpiralLinux to Github. They are basically the complete recipe for automatically generating an ISO for each edition of SpiralLinux. But I believe that @20 was referring to a tool to create a live installable ISO from an already installed and customized system, similar to the tool that MX Linux offers. Although that would be an interesting feature, it would go well beyond the scope of the SpiralLinux project, which doesn't create any custom packages or package repositories. If you search for projects similar to the now defunct Remastersys you might be able to find a tool to build a live ISO from an already installed system, but I can't say whether any of the current tools to do that actually work.
47 • SpiralLinux (by neitherfishnorfowl on 2022-10-04 18:49:52 GMT from United States)
@41
Realtek RTL8821CE, but I won't be installing any Linux distributions on it because it is a PITA to open the back. What I do is remove the internal drive on the Broadcom laptop (which is easy to open and work on, because it's old), install Linux on an external drive, and run it on the Realtek laptop after upgrading the kernel, hence why I like your scheme to have a new kernel at the start.
48 • @Simon (by Panther on 2022-10-04 23:05:27 GMT from United States)
Amen brother !!! You really need to buy hardware that is supported by your operating system,if you think Linux is difficulty, try installing Windows or other proprietary software on some random mix of hardware. Last time I tried I was searching for the windows drivers not included on the windows install CD. Linux is much easier.
Windows is simple if you buy hardware specifically built to support windows with windows pre installed. Linux is simple if you buy hardware specifically built to support Linux with Linux pre installed.
If you value freedom, as in Linux, use hardware compatible with Linux and don't forget to tip the bartender. Please pay or contribute to open source.
If on the other side you have hardware for which there is no open source solution or the proprietary software works better- by all means use the proprietary kernel modules. No need to punish those who do so, at least they know what the options are next time they purchase hardware.
49 • @48 Panther, hardware support (by Nicky-no-nose on 2022-10-05 01:11:00 GMT from United States)
"Last time I tried I was searching for the windows drivers not included on the windows install CD. Linux is much easier." You must have just dropped by in a time machine. I've installed Windows hundreds of times on varied machines, but the last time I installed from CD it was XP, circa 2008.
First time I installed Linux from CD (2006) it was Ubuntu. I had no wired access so I couldn't get online since there was no Linux driver. Linux Mint came to the rescue, not because it had a driver, but it had ndiswrapper, which could be used to install the XP driver. So much for early Linux hardware support superiority. Ndiswrapper plus XP driver worked worked like a charm.
Since those times, Linux hardware support has improved a lot. And since Windows 7, Windows will search online and install any missing drivers. Very rare not to find one. Today, along with Linux on two PCs, I have Windows 11 dual-booting, plus 10 and 11 virtual machines on Virtualbox and KVM. Running happily in all instances. Again, so much for Linux hardware superiority or the difficulty of installing Windows.
50 • SpiralLinux (by TK on 2022-10-05 06:02:31 GMT from Canada)
I installed SpiralLinux after reading this review and I must say that I hesitate to even call it a distro. The way I see it, it's basically an alternative installer for plain-old Debian with some user-friendly tweaks built into it. It doesn't have any custom, in-house software, so every package comes from Debian's repositories. SpiralLinux isn't a Debian-based distro, *it is* Debian. As such, the current set of features is enough to justify its existence.
51 • ALP (by moufy on 2022-10-05 08:24:31 GMT from Australia)
forget about spiral, debian, mint, etc - because opensuse's Adaptable Linux Platform prototype is here. and they say that ALP is the "next generation of Linux" - different from all other distros, because it has "Zero-Touch environment, deployment and configuration... and takes advantage of self-healing, self-tuning and self-updating". it has an "application-centric approach, container and virtualization technologies,", and "full disk encryption".
this takes overblown developer claims to a whole new level. can't wait for the distrowatch review to give us the lowdown on it!
52 • ALP (by zcatav on 2022-10-05 10:37:05 GMT from Turkey)
@51 • ALP (by moufy
Where were you last week?
https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20220926
53 • SpiralLinux and language support (by Kazlu on 2022-10-05 14:12:27 GMT from France)
@37 SpiralLinux
Thank you for clearing that up. Would have been a shame to let go the idea that the whole OS language support was poor! I understand it must work roughly just as well as any GNU/Linux distro we're used to, except you actually *added* some utility to try to handle software which use an exotic way to deal with languages. Challenging, I suppose, when you have to deal with Debian repos but Debian doesn't do it itself! I suppose the result must be confusing for beginners, since as Jesse pointed out, what you see is cryptic. But hey, at least it's a step in the right direction.
54 • Old computers (by Kurt on 2022-10-05 18:41:09 GMT from Canada)
@24 David, your Pentium M processor actually supports PAE. It needs an additional option to force the kernel to use it, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PAE. Intel made these processors to not report PAE capabilities either because of unknown rare errata (as far as I know, so far "forcepae" didn't cause problems for anyone) or because they attempted to discourage usage of these chips in server and workstation systems having > 4 GB RAM.
55 • @54 (by Kurt on 2022-10-05 18:43:37 GMT from Canada)
s/didn't cause/hasn't caused/
56 • Spiral (by Alexandre on 2022-10-05 19:34:03 GMT from Brazil)
One of the best Debian distros I could test. Everything works perfectly, it comes with the most used programs by default, it is possible to choose different desktop environments by default, saving time, but above all being purely Debian.
I'm going to use it to change to Unstable, I firmly believe that there should already be a Rolling option (unstable, or at least testing) of this extremely stable creation, I'm sure it will be very successful among lovers of Rolling versions.
As a suggestion, bring "Nala" as an option for package management, it's extremely friendly and intuitive, and even with it, anyone who wants to use APT can do it without any problems.
This great new Distro, as I can call it, deserves a nice customization of Grub and session managers, as well as wallpapers and GTK (optional, of course).
All I can say is thanks for the great work!
57 • microOS vs ALP (by moufy on 2022-10-05 21:11:42 GMT from Australia)
@52 distrowatch reviewed microOS, which is an experimental container-focused OS.
Adaptable Linux Platform is built around microOS, but will have more features, and move further away from traditional Unix-type computing of just using apps on a host OS. It focuses on workflows and containerised stacks and tools, while the underlying host OS is self-maintained. It will have quarterly updates, and is expected to replace Suse Enterprise edition.
Any kind of new approach to computing has got to be good - especially for security. But, as the distrowatch review has found, what sounds good on paper doesn't necessarily work well in the real world.
58 • @56 (by Reyfer on 2022-10-05 22:23:29 GMT from Venezuela)
"Nala" is already available on Debian Sid
59 • @49 Nicky-no-nose (by Panther on 2022-10-05 23:16:42 GMT from United States)
You are correct I have not installed Windows since 2000 or so, glad it has improved. I made no claims any hardware was more or less superior, merely that installing Linux on incompatible hardware is just about as impossible or full of hassles as installing windows on hardware incompatible with windows, although this may be a smaller subset of hardware. When making hardware purchases one needs to pay attention to compatibility issues.
Along those lines, it is trivial to purchase with Linux pre-installed and thus avoid the licensing fees to Microsoft or al a minimum paying such fees to a Linux community.
60 • SpiralLinux (by SpiralLinux on 2022-10-06 02:33:16 GMT from United States)
@53 The vanilla Debian installer actually is good for non-English language support, I assume that it knows which of the installed packages need additional l10n language packages for the specific chosen language and it installs them automatically. SpiralLinux just comes by default with the universal language support that is built into most Debian packages, and then Calamares runs locale-gen on the installed system. It would take a lot of added logic in Calamares to automatically install the additional l10n packages that are specific to a certain language, and also I don't like depending on package downloads from the internet during the installation phase. But like I said, fortunately almost everything gets automatically translated on the initial boot, and so the user only has to install a few additional language packs. The non-English Youtube reviewers I've watched seem to have an easy time of installing them via Synaptic.
@56 Really glad you like it! Thanks a lot for the kind words.
> 'I'm going to use it to change to Unstable, I firmly believe that there should already be a Rolling option
Here's my response in @5 about a rolling option:
>> Finally, regarding the poll, I considered adding a Rolling branch, but decided against it for the following reasons: First of all, Debian Testing and Unstable are not really intended for public consumption; they are as their name suggests development branches that lead eventually to a Stable Debian release, unlike other distros that set out to offer an actual rolling *release*. I would say that openSUSE Tumbleweed in the form of GeckoLinux Rolling is still a better rolling release for users that want or need a rolling distro. With that said, Debian Testing and Unstable do work very well for some users, and the SpiralLinux documentation offers a simple GUI procedure thanks to Synaptic and some preinstalled but disabled repository entries to easily upgrade the installed system to Testing or Unstable without using the terminal. A dedicated SpiralLinux branch built from Testing or Unstable would still be out of date within a few weeks after its release and would require a subsequent update after installation with a large download and tons of package upgrades anyway, so it wouldn't be much different from following the procedure in the documentation for upgrading a SpiralLinux installation from Stable.
Regarding Nala I guess we can consider it if they package it for Bookworm. SpiralLinux only includes official Debian packages and doesn't create any packages of its own (except for the Calamares installer that is only temporarily needed and later gets uninstalled). I really wish there was a more modern alternative to the core APT library itself, which is quite limited compared to something more modern like libzypp in openSUSE.
I don't spend time on adding wallpapers by default, since that's always the first thing the user changes and I assume that most already have their own favorites. Regarding the default Numix GTK theme I'm reasonably happy with its font color contrast, but on my personal system I use a custom one that is better still. But as mentioned I don't like to ship themes that aren't available in the Debian repos because they could break with future GTK updates.
61 • microOS vs ALP (by moufy (by zcatav on 2022-10-06 08:42:19 GMT from Turkey)
@57
This idea was firstly tried with RancherOS (https://rancher.com/docs/os/v1.x/en/). Then transformed to RKE (https://www.rancher.com/products/rke).
Even Qubes OS has same principle that a central isolated minimal OS with corresponding local or cloud containerized apps.
Self healing and/or maintenance comes from k8s infrastructure. It seems to more proper for enterprise than desktop. May be evolving in future.
How many of DW'er use Qubes OS as their main desktop distro?
62 • SpiralLinux & Nala (by zcatav on 2022-10-06 09:05:29 GMT from Turkey)
@60
"Regarding Nala I guess we can consider it if they package it for Bookworm."
Nala already in Bookworm:
nala Package
bookworm (testing) (admin): Commandline frontend for the APT package manager
0.11.1: all
sid (unstable) (admin): Commandline frontend for the APT package manager
0.11.1: all
Number of Comments: 62
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