 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 987, 26 September 2022 |
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Welcome to this year's 39th issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
A concept that has become increasingly popular over the years, particularly in the realm of commercially backed distributions, is the idea of an immutable operating system. Such an operating system has a read-only filesystem and is intended to have a fixed, low-level layer which is common across all installs. This week we begin with a look at one such immutable operating system: openSUSE's MicroOS. The system provides a read-only filesystem and uses Btrfs snapshots to provide software updates. Jesse Smith shares some practical observations about running openSUSE MicroOS in this week's Feature Story. Have you tried running MicroOS? Let us know what you thought of this special edition of openSUSE in our Opinion Poll. In our News section we talk about upgrades coming to pfSense, including a new version of PHP to run the project's utilities. While pfSense is upgrading PHP, the Arch Linux team is purging the legacy version of Python and we provide details below. We also share a link to a great guide to help people navigate the Linux command line, manage packages, and monitor processes. In this week's Questions and Answers column we discuss inviting people to try Linux and other forms of open source software. We hope you'll find these tips useful when introducing potential Linux users to a new operating system. Plus we are pleased to share a list of the torrents we are seeding and talk about the distribution releases of the past week. This week we're also able to welcome the XeroLinux distribution to our database and we share an overview on this Arch Linux-based project below. We wish you all a fantastic week and happy reading!
Content:
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
openSUSE's MicroOS
The openSUSE project is probably best known for its two main branches: Leap and Tumbleweed. Leap is a fixed release distribution which shares code with SUSE Linux Enterprise while Tumbleweed is a rolling release platform. Apart from this difference in update policy (fixed versus rolling), the two editions are mostly similar. They use the same system administration tools, support the same desktops, and use the same package manager.
Were you to just glance at the openSUSE website you might believe there are just these two editions of the distribution. However, if you poke around in the project's wiki enough you'll find another edition called MicroOS. What is MicroOS? It is an immutable operating system which, as the wiki explains, means:
Read-only root filesystem to avoid accidental modifications of the OS. The Transactional Updates technology leverages Btrfs snapshots to apply package updates without interfering with the running system.
It also mentions there is a tool to check the integrity of the operating system after each update and MicroOS is based on openSUSE Tumbleweed, making it a rolling release platform. The MicroOS edition is available for x86_64, aarach64, ppc64le, and armv7 processors. The x86_64 build is shipped as a 3.7GB ISO file.
According to the wiki, there is a new branch of MicroOS based on openSUSE Leap, but it is considered experimental at this time.
I decided to try out MicroOS's main edition. I hadn't used it before and, given there are rumours SUSE Linux Enterprise will be based on something like MicroOS for its next major release, I thought this would be a good time to become familiar with the technology. For the purposes of this review I decided to focus just on aspects of MicroOS which make it different from Leap as I reviewed openSUSE 15.4 Leap a few months ago.
Before diving into MicroOS I believe it's important to keep in mind this platform is still considered experimental, especially for desktop use. The project's documentation says:
MicroOS Desktop provides only a minimal base system with a desktop environment and basic configuration tools only. All applications, browsers, etc are provided by Flatpaks from Flathub. Warning! openSUSE MicroOS for desktop usage is still in RC (GNOME) or Alpha (KDE Plasma) stage, please keep that in mind!
Just to clarify the above quote, there isn't a separate "Desktop" edition of MicroOS. There is one edition, but during install time we can select a role, such as Desktop or Server, and I'll talk about that in a moment.
Getting started
Booting from the MicroOS media brings up a menu which allows us to either jump straight into the system installer or run a self-check on the media to confirm it has not been tampered with or corrupted. Once the self-check passes it launches the graphical system installer.
On my machine the installer launched and then immediately reported there was an incorrect checksum in its repository data. We are warned the data has been changed (by accident or compromised by an attacker). We can ignore this warning or abort the installer. We can also opt to reload repository data from the local ISO. I took this last option and the installer proceeded without further warning. I'm not sure if this means it ignored the issue or managed to correct the problem by reloading information.
The installer asks us to select a role for MicroOS. The available roles include plain MicroOS, which I believe is intended for server systems. We can also set up the distribution as a Container Host or install either the GNOME or KDE Plasma desktop. We're told that the GNOME role uses the GNOME Software utility to manage packages while the KDE Plasma role uses the Discover package manager.
At the end of the configuration screens we are shown a summary of actions the distribution's installer will take. We can browse these actions and make adjustments. For instance, MicroOS defaults to running the OpenSSH service for remote access and doesn't enable the firewall. It also defaults to the UTC timezone. We can click links next to these options to change them.
Once we accept the actions the installer starts copying its packages to the hard drive. Here things took a sharp turn into trouble. It started when the installer popped up a warning to say the RPM package for libmp3lame0 had the wrong checksum and warned against using it. We can abort the install, ignore the warning, or retry fetching the package. I chose to retry and the installer proceeded, apparently with the issue resolved.
A few seconds later the perl-base package triggered the same warning. Then the mozilla-nss package. Then another package, and another, and another. What made this increasingly frustrating was the pop-up which displayed the warning had an option to "do not show this message again", but clicking it does nothing to block future warnings. We need to click through each one and provide the solution every time. During the install process I was prompted at least 15 times about how to handle packages with bad checksums.
When the installer finally finished, it restarted the computer and booted the system to a graphical login screen. Which quickly turned black and failed to respond to keyboard or mouse input. I forced a restart and, once again, after displaying the login screen for a few moments, the system blanked the display and refused to respond. The third time, I quickly typed my credentials and the system logged me into the KDE Plasma desktop. It seems there is a timeout which will lock the system if we do not login immediately.
Early impressions
The first time I signed into the KDE Plasma desktop I was greeted by a crash report window which told me the kslashqml process had crashed. I was asked if I'd like to ignore this or restart the process. Restarting the process results in the KDE splash screen being shown again, followed by the process crashing, and a new report pop-up. After I installed waiting updates, this crash report stopped appearing at login.
openSUSE MicroOS -- Exploring the bare application menu
(full image size: 671kB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
The Plasma desktop is arranged with a panel at the bottom of the screen. The panel holds our application menu, task switcher, and system tray. On the desktop we find two icons for opening the Dolphin file manager.
The application menu holds a small number of application launchers. We can launch the Discover software manager, the Dolphin file manager, the Kate text editor, a virtual terminal, and the System Settings panel. That's about it. There is no web browser or other heavy applications. Looking further I found MicroOS does ship with the same command line tools as other openSUSE editions, but it doesn't ship with manual pages.
It appears as though YaST isn't included in MicroOS. I suspect the administrative panel isn't compatible with a read-only filesystem. This is unfortunate as YaST is one of the great gems of the typical openSUSE experience and I missed having it included by default.
Despite not including much software and not enabling any swap space with the default guided partitioning setup, a fresh install of MicroOS takes up 2.8GB of disk space. Logging into KDE Plasma requires about 640MB of RAM, which is slightly on the heavy side.
Software management
People who have used other editions of openSUSE are probably familiar with the Zypper package manager. Zypper is included in MicroOS, but cannot be used as the distribution uses a read-only filesystem. Instead we need to use the Discover graphical package manager which we can launch from the application menu.
The first time I launched Discover it reported there were 46 updates waiting. I chose to install these and Discover downloaded the waiting packages. It then crashed while finishing up the transaction. I re-opened Discover and it reported there were no new packages to fetch.
openSUSE MicroOS -- Installing software with Discover
(full image size: 143kB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
Discover displays categories and sub-categories of software we can browse to the left of the window. Entries for specific applications are shown on the right. Each application is listed with its name, a short description, icon, and a rating. I decided to download two applications to start: FileZilla and Firefox. Discover reported no issues during the download, but the new items didn't show up in my application menu. After Firefox finished downloading, Discover crashed again.
I re-launched Discover and tried to install VLC which quickly caused Discover to crash once more. I began to wonder if I might need to restart the computer in order to complete the earlier update. I rebooted and, when I logged in, I found FileZilla had been added to my application menu, but Firefox and VLC had not. FileZilla launched and worked which seemed promising.
I returned to Discover and tried to install the Falkon browser. This appeared to be successful, but the application was not added to my menu and clicking its Launch button from within Discover accomplished nothing. I tried logging out and back in, but this didn't refresh the application menu. In order to make Falkon show up in the menu I had to reboot the computer again.
This pattern continued with Discover regularly crashing and the system insisting I restart the computer in order to see newly installed programs in my application menu.
Conclusions
I want to acknowledge the MicroOS documentation does warn that the desktop roles of the distribution are still in development. We shouldn't expect an entirely polished experience. Still, despite this warning, I was surprised at how poorly the MicroOS system functioned. I could understand some things not working smoothly, such as Discover not adding application launchers to the menu automatically. However, getting pestered with checksum errors (15 or more of them) during the initial install seems excessive. It was all the more frustrating that the installer doesn't respect the "don't ask me again" option after it shows the checksum errors.
openSUSE MicroOS -- Exploring the System Settings panel
(full image size: 153kB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
The login screen blanks and causes the system to stop responding if we don't login fast enough, the first window that greets the user upon logging in isn't a welcome window, but a crash report. There is very little software on the system and the Discover software centre crashes after almost every transaction.
With all of these things going wrong, the only theoretical benefit appears to be that we can install (and rollback) software updates, making for a more stable rolling release experience. Which is a good idea and I'm not knocking it, but we can already enjoy this with openSUSE Tumbleweed and its automatic Btrfs snapshots without any of the hassles which come from running MicroOS. The Tumbleweed edition will even let us use Zypper and includes more desktop software out of the box.
MicroOS has some appealing ideas, like snapshots, a read-only root filesystem, and roles we can select at install time. However, it's a lot less polished than openSUSE's other editions and, from a practical point of view, doesn't offer much benefit over the Btrfs snapshots of the other editions.
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Visitor supplied rating
openSUSE has a visitor supplied average rating of: 8.7/10 from 439 review(s).
Have you used openSUSE? You can leave your own review of the project on our ratings page.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
pfSense updates base system and PHP, Arch drops Python 2 packages, a guide for navigating the Linux command line
pfSense is a FreeBSD-based operating system for firewalls and routers. The project is going to be updating some key components as the developers prepare for the next major release of pfSense. Jim Thompson posted: "We are moving the version of PHP used by pfSense software to PHP 8.1. We have also taken a decision to move the base operating system version of FreeBSD used by pfSense software from 12-STABLE to the current development 'top of tree' version also known as 'main', or 'HEAD', and, at the time of writing, '14-CURRENT'. In order to minimize potential disruption to the community and customer base, public development snapshots and repository synchronization have been temporarily paused while we work on these major shifts, including internal testing of builds.
Recent releases of pfSense software have been based on PHP 7.4, which is now approaching its EOL date in late November. We are migrating the version of PHP used by pfSense software to PHP 8.1, skipping over the interim 8.0 release. This means we will be on the latest available release of PHP. PHP 8.1 is supported upstream until late 2024." Details on these moves can be found in Thompson's blog post.
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Version 2 of the Python development language is no longer receiving security updates, having been discontinued two years ago. However, because of the vast collection of software written in Python 2 (which is not compatible with Python 3), the language has continued to exist in the software repositories of many Linux distributions. The Arch Linux team has decided to remove Python 2 entirely from the distribution, purging its packages from the repositories: "Python 2 went end of life January 2020. Since then we have been actively cutting down the number of projects depending on python2 in our repositories, and we have finally been able to drop it from our distribution. If you still have python2 installed on your system consider removing it and any python2 package. If you still require the python2 package you can keep it around, but please be aware that there will be no security updates."
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People often contact us, looking for ways to learn Linux basics. People want to know how to get started with the command line, manage services, or learn what an "init" is. The answers to these questions, and several more, are available in a quick, practical guide to the Linux command line called Linux command line for you and me. The guide includes many practical tips and tricks, ways to find information, process monitoring, accessing log files, and package management. These topics and more are quickly and clearly covered in the on-line guide.
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Converting other people to using Linux
New-recruit asks: I slapped Linux on my laptop to see if I could extend its life three months ago and it's been going great! It's breathed new life into my machine and it feels like my computer is working for me now. Any tips on converting friends and family members to running Linux?
DistroWatch answers: Welcome to the Linux club. I'm glad you're finding that it's working well for you and that you're enjoying the benefits. I also think it is nice you want to share the positive experience with others.
Before you rush out to hand copies of Linux to the people in your social circle there are a few things I believe are worth considering. The first, in my mind, is people mostly see their computers as tools or entertainment systems. They are things to be used to accomplish something. Most folks don't regard computers as something they are emotionally invested in. If you approach most people with words like "open philosophy" or "converting", it's likely to make them regard the Linux community as a political group or a cult. It's unlikely to encourage them to check it out.
I find the best way to convince someone to try something new is to find out what they don't like about their current situation. Is their computer old and slow (like yours was before you switched)? Then show them how much faster yours is now. Are they upset about pop-ups and a dozen different update programs annoying them? Show them how clean and simple the update programs on most Linux distributions are. Are they regularly getting viruses or running into unpredictable behaviour? Explain to them that your system isn't targeting by most malware. In short, listen to their problem and offer a specific solution.
If someone is entirely happy with their computing system and doesn't seem interested in yours, then they might not be the right person to try to coax into the Linux community.
On a related note, sometimes a person's issues might be better fixed with changing applications rather than a full switch to an entirely new operating system. For instance, my family was having trouble with their e-mail client on Windows. Everything else was working fine for them at the time. Rather than try to sell them on the idea of making the big leap to Linux, I introduced them to the open source Thunderbird e-mail client. At another point they were having trouble with their ageing version of Microsoft Office not being compatible with new document formats and I installed LibreOffice for them, which covered all their needs. When their old movie player proved to be too slow, I introduced them to VLC.
After a few years, virtually all their desktop software was open source and cross platform. Which meant when it came time to upgrade their computer, installing a beginner-friendly Linux distribution and their now-familiar desktop software was a less jarring experience than making the leap to the latest version of Windows and its many interface changes.
My point is essentially that sometimes it's better to swap out one component to help a person solve a specific problem. Assuming it works well, they may be open to swapping out other programs in the future as they run into problems, gradually shifting them toward a more open source and user-focused experience. Sometimes a person just needs one improved screwdriver, not a whole new toolbox.
Finally, if you do plan to encourage people to switch operating systems, be prepared to be their tech support person, at least for the first few months of the transition. It can be hard to switch from one application or operating system to another. Switching to a platform with a low desktop market share means it'll be hard for the people migrating to get support. Not only with little things like learning how to use the file manager or installing new software, but they may find they run into errors using on-line services, or cannot install applications their employer uses for business. A lot of support people won't be able to help them navigate Linux, so make sure you're available to be on call if they need help.
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Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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| Released Last Week |
ExTiX 22.9
The ExTiX distribution is an Ubuntu-based project which features alternative desktop environments. The latest version of ExTiX uses the KDE Plasma desktop and ships with the Anbox software for running Android applications. The release announcement shares details: "News about ExTiX 22.9 Build 220922 with the KDE Plasma Desktop environment together with Anbox (Android in a Box), Refracta Installer and Refracta Snapshot: 1. ExTiX KDE Plasma is based on Ubuntu 22.04.1 LTS Jammy Jellyfish. KDE Plasma is used as the desktop environment together with Anbox (Android in a Box). All packages have been updated to the latest version by 220922. 2. I have pre-installed Anbox (Android in a Box) with Google Play Store. So GAPPS (Google Play Services and Google Play Store) are pre-installed in this version of ExTiX. Anbox won't run live (from a DVD or a USB stick) or in VirtualBox. You will get an error message. That's because VirtualBox as of yet does not support nested virtualization. In this version of ExTiX KDE/Anbox you can run the YouTube app with good video and sound quality. Not with the very best quality."
ExTiX 22.9 -- Running the KDE Plasma desktop
(full image size: 118kB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 2,773
- Total data uploaded: 42.4TB
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) |
Running openSUSE's MicroOS
This week we began with a review of openSUSE's MicroOS, an immutable operating system combined with an openSUSE base. Have you tried MicroOS? What did you think about it? Let us know what worked for you and what did not in the comments.
You can see the results of our previous poll on remotely accessing a laptop in last week's edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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Running MicroOS
| I have tried MicroOS and liked it: | 32 (3%) |
| I have tried MicroOS and did not like it: | 50 (4%) |
| I am trying MicroOS now: | 16 (1%) |
| I have not tried MicroOS: | 1034 (91%) |
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| Website News |
Donations and Sponsors
Each month we receive support and kindness from our readers in the forms of donations. These donations help us keep the web server running, pay contributors, and keep infrastructure like our torrent seed box running. We'd like to thank our generous readers and acknowledge how much their contributions mean to us.
This month we're grateful for the $75 in contributions from the following kind souls:
| Donor |
Amount |
|---|
| Mitchel V | $20 |
| Peter R | $15 |
| Daniel A | $10 |
| Adiel A | $5 |
| Brian H | $5 |
| Computer Farm Sarl | $5 |
| Iamchop | $5 |
| Jonas B | $5 |
| Vory | $3 |
| tibfulv | $1 |
| Wm L | $1 |
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New distributions added to database
XeroLinux
XeroLinux is an Arch Linux-based distribution with KDE Plasma as the preferred desktop. Some of the features of the distribution include the Calamares installer, various under-the-hood tweaks and optimisations, built-in support for community-built AUR packages as well as Flatpak packages, and the availability of various desktop and bootloader themes developed in-house.
XeroLinux 2022.09 -- The KDE Plasma desktop
(full image size: 4.2MB, resolution: 2560x1600 pixels)
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DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 3 October 2022. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Article Search page. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
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| Extended Lifecycle Support by TuxCare |
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • openSUSE MicroOS (by Sam Crawford on 2022-09-26 01:01:34 GMT from United States)
Today I tried to reinstall Tumbleweed onto a box that normally has it installed. I had the same issues as Jessie did with programs I installed, such as Edge, Skype, Zoom, Insync and Vuescan not showing up on the KDE menu.
I'm not sure if it is a problem with the current version of the openSUSE installer as I've never experienced this before. This was with Tumbleweed, not MicroOS.
I'm going to wait a few days and try again with a newer installer. Maybe Jessie is dealing with the same issue?
2 • MicroOS (by gekxxx on 2022-09-26 01:06:01 GMT from Belgium)
Distros like MicroOS and Fedora Silverblue are nice and safe, but a pain in the ass once it comes to installing drivers like hplip. Even if hplip would be possible, then hp-plugin is not. Hp-plugin install inside the OS, and as this OS is not writable...No, immutable linux distros are a good idea, but not on the desktop yet.
3 • Migrating to Linux (by Wedge009 on 2022-09-26 01:09:14 GMT from Australia)
The introductory process described by Jesse in this week's Q&A happened to be exactly the approach I took with myself over the course of several years. Long before I adopted Linux as my primary OS, I had already made a concerted effort to find and use FOSS replacements for proprietary, Windows-specific applications I was previously using - including the Thunderbird, VLC and LibreOffice projects mentioned. So when I decided to take the step to running Linux as my main OS most of the hard work was already done.
Perhaps a similar approach will make it easier for others to encourage their family/friends to take that step too, someday.
4 • ChromeOS (by Pumpino on 2022-09-26 01:32:41 GMT from Australia)
Would ChromeOS be considered immutable, given linux is in a container? It would be interesting to see a review of ChromeOS on DW, given it's Linux at its core.
5 • MicroOS (by Charlie on 2022-09-26 02:14:10 GMT from Hong Kong)
MicroOS is a total different concept than a traditional Linux system, you need to adopt to it but saw many people in Reddit complaining about it doesn't perform like the traditional OS but it's supposed not to.
For installing software, I doubt if Jesse didn't install the Flatpak version but instead the package (zypper/rpm) version, coz Flatpak software doesn't need a reboot to show up in the desktop menu, and only packages installed on an immutable OS need a reboot to show changes. Make sure Discover has enabled Flathub as a source of software. That's also why KDE is in Alpha stage on MicroOS whgile GNOME is RC, coz GNOME software enables Flathub automatically.
@2 You can actually install packages like the old way but it's encouraged only to do so on drivers and system software. sudo transactional-update is what you are looking for, it can add packages to system like zypper. I did so in order to install Chinese and Japanese input in my use case.
All in all, I found MicroOS is actually more out-of-box than Silverblue actually, but you should understand the quirks and workarounds before using it as a daily OS.
6 • Linux migration (by DaveW on 2022-09-26 02:25:59 GMT from United States)
The gradual conversion to linux is pretty much what I did. I had been running WinXP for a few years, and didn't want to buy a new copy of Microsoft Office, found OpenOffice and started using that. Then I installed Thunderbird and VLC. XP got kind of old and slow, so I installed Ubuntu; used both dual-booting for a while. Now I'm 100% Linux Mint and loving it.
7 • micro os (by jay coeli on 2022-09-26 02:26:24 GMT from United States)
sorry all...
but don't believe "micro" should be measured in multiple gb, especially when cf product like dsl, matrix, slitax, or even puppy...
jc
8 • micro os (by jay coeli on 2022-09-26 02:30:38 GMT from United States)
another sorry...
damn awtoe korrekt: last should read mitrax!
jc
9 • @7 (by Charlie on 2022-09-26 02:43:00 GMT from Hong Kong)
@7
The term "micro" doesn't mean small in disk space usage, just as the term "free" usually doesn't mean free in charge in the FOSS world ;)
10 • microOS & wrong checksums (by pengxuin on 2022-09-26 05:29:07 GMT from New Zealand)
yep, $#!+ happens.
as you had so many initial errors, and that each cleared after a retry, a possible cause is the update mirror updating the packages while you were downloading them to update your system.
given that microOS KDE version is in alpha likely means that the packages are in a state of rapid rebuild /update
11 • @1 (by Jan on 2022-09-26 08:05:28 GMT from Germany)
@1 maybe you need to install xdg-desktop-portal-kde
12 • Telling other people about Linux (by omar on 2022-09-26 09:02:39 GMT from Indonesia)
Lesson i learned.
This doesn't work : Pick people i love, tell them about Linux, hope they migrate soon.
This worked: Just let friends know that i'm Linux user. Friends who interested in Linux came to me eventually.
13 • Converting to Linux (by luvr on 2022-09-26 10:10:47 GMT from Belgium)
I'm not evangelizing Linux in any way, but every now and then, people come to me and tell me they have this old laptop running a no longer supported Windows version.
If they ask me if they really need to buy a new computer, then I tell them that if they want to continue to run Windows, then, yes, it's time for a new computer. Otherwise, they can try out Linux on their laptop and see if it works for them; then, if it doesn't, they can still look for a new computer.
Some will eventually get a new laptop anyway, but with the current economic situation, more and more people are prepared to take a proper look at Linux and to keep using it.
14 • MicroOS (by Zauser on 2022-09-26 11:30:11 GMT from Germany)
If the energy of many good programmers goes into systems like MicroOS, then it will probably work very well. Currently, that's just not the case yet. For people who depend on reliability, a system like Leap, Debian or Ubuntu LTS is the measure of all things; maybe Timeshift for good measure.
15 • MicroOS GNOME (by traveler on 2022-09-26 11:32:02 GMT from United States)
Since MicroOS KDE is an alpha state, and MicroOS GNOME is at RC state, I would think using GNOME would give a better experience.
16 • Suse MicroOS (by Otis on 2022-09-26 13:15:14 GMT from United States)
After the many times over the years I've tried Tumbleweed and Leap (and SuSe in the old days) I confess to never having heard of MicroOs. I also confess to thinking I was about to read a review of a phone OS done by openSuse when I saw the name. Great to see it's a rather refined version in some ways of openSuse, and that they're serious enough about it to plan on deploying it as enterprise at some point in the future.
This whole thing speaks well of the evolution of Suse in general. I'm only hoping for prolific driver development to broaden the range of the target user base.
17 • Praise be to Linux! (by Friar Tux on 2022-09-26 14:28:42 GMT from Canada)
@13 (luvr) My sentiments exactly. While the toughest customer I had was The Wife, she quickly ASKED to be switched when, in the middle of a job she was doing, Window decided to do an hour long, unauthorized upgrade from Windows 7 to 10. She waited patiently for the hour and, when it was done, her machine froze. She got a lot of "[Program] Not Responding". At that point, she asked me to "DO something". I scrubbed the hard drive, loaded on Linux Mint/Cinnamon and made it look as close to Win 7 as possible. This was about 7 years ago and she hasn't had an issue since.
@14 (Zauser) Regarding Timeshift... that is the first thing I remove when I install a distro. I find it a waste of time and resources as it does not work as well as advertised - at least not for me. When things go south, access to the Timeshift backups isn't always available for various reasons. It is much quicker to just re-install the OS and restore my files from my external backups. I DO think there is a possibility to really make Timeshift shine. If it could be put on a USB key, with a small OS, to be bootable on startup, and THEN have the option of over-writing the damaged OS (but leaving to "Home" directory intact), that would be great. It would need a sub-directory to store the Timeshift backups, but also have the ability to update to the latest backup.
18 • From Windows to Linux (by Otis on 2022-09-26 15:19:30 GMT from United States)
Within the first year of my computer journey back in the mid 90s I came to realize I was going to have to try alternatives. Windows 95 did not always work and play well. So, off I went into the Linux journey, which I'm still on.
But, even though like many others I've said something like "..and I never looked back..," I did in fact go back to Windows and still have Windows on a machine, not Windows 95 of course, as well as a Mac.
The Linux journey is about Linux distros (and the occasional BSD in a very similar computing category). And computing itself is a big world, no need (for me) to narrow it to only a Linux distro or three that I like. The concerns and cares one has going on the internet are just as true for Linux/BSD as they are for Windows or Mac.
19 • wandered into linux... (by tom joad on 2022-09-26 15:23:14 GMT from Germany)
I was using XP when I first dipped my toe into Linux.
Now days, like then, Linux doesn't come up much. When someone asks me a question about 'that other major OS' I shrug and say I use Linux. Either they walk away, change the subject or ask 'What?' If they ask what I raise the learning curve a bit. I tell them it is an OS that is free, secure and pretty stable. If they are still curious I tell them Linux is free to give to anyone. That generally gets them because that is a big no-no with the other OS. But I am honest with them; there is a learning curve and it takes time to learn. And there is both of those. We all know that. Nope, that is just too much work for them and they are gone. If they hang around I keep raising the bar.
But Jesse nailed with the line ..."Most folks don't regard computers as something they are emotionally invested in." That is not me and I suspect most of us here. We pop the hood. We swap out this and that. We want to know how 'it' works, what makes it go. We are into the 'car' but we are into ALL of it. We are not the 'get in, turn the key and drive off folks.' We are the 'jacked up in the drive and underneath the car' most days folks.
We are Linux. They will likely never be. And that is fine.
Linux is like religion. Folks who want it will find it. Mean time the world keeps spinning.
Lastly, I suspect that other "OS" drives more folks to Linux than we ever convert.
20 • BuzzwordOS (by Trihexagonal on 2022-09-26 15:54:27 GMT from United States)
I have never used MicroOS and have no intention of doing so.
I like using FreeBSD and Kali Linux, and they like using me, too.
How many package managers come bundled with MicroOS? 5? 6?
How many does one person need? 2 each will do for me.
apt and apt-get, ports and pkg.
Making something incapable of change does not make me want to change either.
21 • Converting People to Linux (by bittermann on 2022-09-26 16:25:05 GMT from United States)
I have a hard enough time convincing People that LibreOffice is perfectly fine for what they need. You know the ones that have the "deer in the headlights look" when you ask them for the Office Key and have no clue..."you mean I have to pay for MS office now"!
22 • Converting other people to using Linux (by Carlos Moreira on 2022-09-26 17:53:53 GMT from Brazil)
Nice tips on this subject, I always struggled to find a good reason to make a person start using Linux, and now I know how to approach this matter.
23 • Timeshift... that is the first thing I remove (by rb on 2022-09-26 18:03:26 GMT from United States)
I have no issues with Timeshift. It has worked great for me on Kubuntu, Arch and Gentoo. As a cron job, It backs up system files and hidden files in home once per day like clockwork. I use it with EXT4 not btrfs. I back up to a separate drive. I keep 5 daily rotating backups available. I have had to restore a few times when I clucked something up in configs. I think it is the best thing to happen to the distros in a long time. Most often, I just copy the config file over from the backup and things are back to the way they were. Restore takes less than 3 or 4 minutes tops and the system reboots back to the way it was. Never has it failed me or let me down. It gives me great peace of mind knowing I can get my stuff back if I have issues.
The best part is I have tried installing other distros for a few days, and then restored my previous install of the first distro in a few minutes as if it never happened.
24 • converting people to Linux is hard (by Matt on 2022-09-26 18:44:52 GMT from United States)
Converting a computer to Linux is easy, but convincing a person to convert to Linux is almost impossible.
25 • Converting people to Linux (by dragonmouth on 2022-09-26 21:15:41 GMT from United States)
You can't force people to be happy against their wishes. If they cling to Windows like a drunk clings to a lamp post, ain't no way you're going to get them to try Linux, let alone switch.
26 • Converting to Linux (by Bryan on 2022-09-26 22:26:42 GMT from United States)
I am not a developer, just a regular user. I prefer Windows because it comes with far fewer issues than any version of Linux I have tried. All those horror stories about Windows updates borking the system and BSODs? They never happen to me. The last BSOD I came across was while running Windows 98. All versions since: no issues. Arch has failed to boot on three different occasions after a system update, but Windows has never given me problems. I enjoying tinkering with Linux and have a few programs that my tinkering centers around, but all the bugs are just too frustrating for a daily driver when Windows runs way smoother (a version of Xubuntu I am currently running sometimes has no start menu icon upon boot up and asks for a keyring password whenever I open the browser, for example). The only time I recommend Linux is when the machine is old and can no longer run Windows. I have installed distros on those machines for friends to make the hardware last a bit longer, but no one for whom I did this has expressed being impressed with the result and fairly quickly just bought a new computer. I know Windows-bashing is a steadfast part of the Linux ecosystem, but it is hard for me to take seriously when I have been using both OSes for 15 years (Windows longer than that), and when it comes to user experience, there is no comparison which OS comes with less fiddling, bugs, and headaches. I do like Linux very much and appreciate its existence, but I cannot recommend it to someone who has used Windows for the last 10 years and won't be equipped to deal with all the inevitable and frustrating quirks they are going to encounter.
27 • Converting to Linux (by Pogi Americano on 2022-09-27 00:11:54 GMT from United States)
To be honest, I started using Linux because it was free, as in dollars and cents. My first distro was Slackware. It was about '94 I think. It took me a while to download it and even longer to get it working to the point I could use it for my daily work. A few years later I got a Red Hat CD with a book and tried that. Things were and are still constantly evolving. Even though it was hard to get working on a daily basis in the early days, I stuck with it, mainly because I didn't have to pay for it. Now in the last few years I found a new reason to like Linux. I can not only look at but also change source code (it took a while for me to learn). Try that with Microsoft or Apple! I don't try to push Linux on anyone, my wife still uses Windows. When Windows locks up or doesn't work in some other way, I just tell her to give me what she has to do and I'll get it done on my 10 year old PC running the latest Kubuntu. If I leave it alone it never stops. I have a 15 year old that I try all kinds of stuff on. I end up re-installing that one a lot...But I learn a lot too.
28 • Converting to ... (by zcatav on 2022-09-27 11:18:05 GMT from Turkey)
The best OS is the one you know well and enjoy using. But doesn't hurt to try new OSes, may be make you wiser.
The best OS for me is Debian.
29 • Since I don't like being the Free IT Guy... (by Tad Strange on 2022-09-27 19:45:08 GMT from Canada)
I tell people to just buy a chromebook.
Unless they have a proprietary app tied to Windows.
I'm not about to evangelise software like a Jehovah at the door or that one vegan cousin at a family dinner.
30 • Alternatives (by Thomas on 2022-09-27 20:12:17 GMT from Luxembourg)
@29: sometimes it is better to just do nothing. Staying with Windows is better than buying a Chromebook garbage. If you are unwilling to help people please don't mislead them to one of the worst possible alternatives.
31 • Converting uther people to use Linux (by penguinx86 on 2022-09-28 04:33:13 GMT from United States)
I made an effort to switch io Linux about 12 years ago. It took me about 2 months to stop using mainstream products that start with M or W. Free apps like LibreOffice made the transition easier. But I'm an IT professional, and my job is to make stuff work. I even passed the LPIC-1 certification exam last year. Sure, I made the switch to Linux work for myself. But from a customer support point of view, other users might not have the patients or desire to go through the same learning curve. My mom and dad are good examples. They can barely figure out the M and W stuff that they've used for uver a decade. Heck, they can barely figure out how to call me using a Smartphone. While I really like usung Linux, it may not be for everybody. You can't teach an old dog new tricks?
32 • teaching new tricks (by zcatav on 2022-09-28 07:49:56 GMT from Turkey)
@31
Learning something new protects older people against Alzheimer's. In your example this might be GNU/Linux.
And it's all about habits.
33 • Converting (by Friar Tux on 2022-09-28 14:15:41 GMT from Canada)
@31 (penquinx86) I think it depends on the distro you use to introduce them. When I switch someone over to Linux from a MS product, I pick a distro that quite closely resembles, and works, like the MS product they are leaving. I try to take muscle memory into account. (By the way, this can also be done with folks leave an Apple OS.)
Muscle memory is really quite important in work productivity so I try to accommodate the user by setting up their computer as close to what they're used to as possible. I've even set up one person to Linux Mint/Cinnamon with a Window 3.11 style theme and icons. Boy were they happy. ("I started with Windows 3.11, and it was nice. I don't know why they had to go and change it.")
I realize the old "but Windows isn't Linux, so if you're going to use Linux, learn to do it the Linux way" argument. Yes, I get it. But HUMANS don't work that way, and we're trying to help HUMANS.
34 • @33 Friar Tux: (by dragonmouth on 2022-09-28 16:44:31 GMT from United States)
If the distro mimics Windows too much, it will take the user much longer to learn. IMO, a distro like PCLinuxOS or MX is much better than Zorin to start learning Linux.
35 • Newbies & Chromebook (#30) (by Tomposter on 2022-09-28 17:34:07 GMT from United States)
Providing assistance to a newbie can be like pouring your time down the drain.
M$ has given Linux opportunities to compete in the desktop arena. The non-commercial Linux community has failed to provide a fully competitive option.
Criticism of Chromebook often fails to acknowledge that tens of millions of users with limited needs, granddaughters to grandmothers, are satisfied with Chromebook. Users with a need for a more powerful PC often choose to spend more money on a Mac, which is more secure and user-friendly than Windows.
My granddaughter and 2 of her friends recently worked on a school project together at my house, using their Chromebooks. They were totally unaware of that they were using "garbage". Chromebooks have been satisfying their needs. For years.
Windows of course has its place. Lots of people are satisfied with it. But it isn't necessarily the best system for someone who has been happy with a Chromebook. Of course, any comparison would be misleading without at least mentioning the total cost of ownership, including hardware capable of providing a responsive experience, malware protection, and the software that Windows users need to purchase/rent to be productive, as well as the future requirement to buy a more powerful replacement system to upgrade to the next version of Windows which may or may not be capable of using existing software and peripherals (these are the software and peripherals which are the reason all computer users supposedly "need" Windows).
Chromebooks show how user-friendly a computer experience based upon Linux can be. Movement of Linux desktop development in that user-friendly direction might be a good thing.
36 • Other repositories/software not installing openSUSE (by Sam Crawford on 2022-09-28 18:00:06 GMT from United States)
Regarding my comment in post #1, I tried to install openSUSE Tumbleweed, KDE again and still have the same issue not being to add external, non-suse, repositories and install software from them.
Upon further experimenting I was able to install the Cinnamon Desktop in openSUSE and external repositories could be added and programs installed and run.
Jessie, I'm thinking your inability to install software might be a KDE issue?
37 • MS, GNU/Linux and Chromebooks (by Thomas on 2022-09-28 19:25:12 GMT from Austria)
Of course, one can be satisfied and even get the job done using a conceptually crippled product. Regarding the "opportunities to compete": MS has used various anti-competitive tactics against alternative desktop OSes, it has been proven in courts. GNU/Linux is user-friendly. What is not user-friendly in Mint, for example?
38 • @3 Tomposter: (by dragonmouth on 2022-09-28 20:40:43 GMT from United States)
"Providing assistance to a newbie can be like pouring your time down the drain."
Weren't you a "newbie" at one time? Apparently someone "poured their time down the drain" to assist you.
39 • Newbies and OSes (by Justme on 2022-09-29 03:20:11 GMT from United States)
@35, I'll agree that Chromebooks are not garbage. My wife could probably get along with one and never need anything else. However, the online software used with Chromebooks can be used with Windows or Linux. All you need is the browser. The reverse is not true. If you need apps that reside in your computer, Chromebooks are useless. It's also not true that using Windows is so much more costly. Aside from being able to do much more on Linux/Windows than you can't do on Chrome OS, cheap Chromebooks are just that: cheap. It's not just the power of the CPU, it's things such as hinges, keyboards, durability of the case, and a bunch of other things. They also tend to have small screens. Not all Chromebooks are equal. Some can be as expensive as Windows laptops, but they still lack the functionality of Windows or Linux.
"Providing assistance to a newbie can be like pouring your time down the drain." It can be in some cases. I no longer install Linux for anyone, except on my wife's laptop. It grated when people whose PCs I had installed Linux on, years later were still pronouncing it like the kid in Peanuts, and they still had made no effort to get familiar with the OS. There was a guy I hadn't seen in a few years, came to ask me if I would install Linux on his new laptop. Years of use, and he still couldn't install the OS. I said 'no!' Jesse is right. You have to be prepared to be the eternal support person.
But not all newbies are equal either. There are those who find and want to use Linux, and need a helping hand. I spent years on various forums, sometimes staying with new people with problems over days or weeks. I don't do forums anymore. These days, more information is available with a query on Google than in most forums, many times including detailed videos. That's what I do when I run into a problem myself: I google.
40 • Converting to Linux (by Mac on 2022-09-29 12:15:24 GMT from Portugal)
I would start by preparing checklists for hardware and software, organized by magnitude of importance. If Linux thick most of your top items, there's a good chance it may be for you.
For this and for next steps there's a learning curve. So, as mentioned @39 new users will need an helping hand to install and set up. But that's the same with Windows, Mac, Android, aso.
41 • the success of chromebooks (by dave on 2022-09-29 23:33:37 GMT from United States)
ChromeOS achieving wide mainstream acceptance is due mainly to the same reason as Windows; it is preinstalled on the system and these products are often purchased in bulk, for institutional use. Probably the majority of Chromebooks in use today are supplied by schools and employers. I'm not suggesting that people don't buy them for personal use, nor that the OS is inadequate for basic tasks, but it's not really fair to compare this with the landscape of more traditional Linux distributions. If Chromebooks used Ubuntu all these years, it'd have the same level of acceptance among the 'uninitiated'.
There have been Linux distributions that provide similar functionality to ChromeOS for many years, but they aren't marketed to schools and businesses by a billion dollar corporation. That's the main difference.
42 • @41, Chromebook non-success (by Justme on 2022-09-30 02:52:41 GMT from United States)
While pre-installation may be an advantage, there's no wide or even narrow mainstream acceptance for Chromebooks. They are mostly bought by education entities to give to students. High usage in schools, but nowhere else. Very few buy it for personal use. Per Net Applications, which follows internet usage: for desktop OSes Chrome OS has only .4%. Linux has 2.87%. Mac has 9.75%. The rest is Windows.
43 • Chromebooks would be more useful with a better choice of apps (by Ted H in Minnesota on 2022-09-30 14:08:48 GMT from United States)
Chromebooks would be better with a better choice of apps.
Chromebooks are fine as far as they go: small and light, inexpensive, good for email and cruising the internet. - I have several of them, and am keying in this comment on one.
But, for me, their main limitation is poor choice of apps to include (their Google Docs that cannot save a file in Word format (Abiword would have been a better choice, I think), and an overly complicated spreadsheet instead of a small, simple yet powerful one like SpreadCE, which runs on my chromebook)... and also what they don't include (a simple effective text editor, like Caret).
Ted H in Minnesota
44 • @43, Chrome OS apps (by Justme on 2022-09-30 15:59:02 GMT from United States)
"Google Docs that cannot save a file in Word format" You can use Word online, also Excel, Powerpoint and OneNote. Can be done on Linux too.
Number of Comments: 44
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