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1 • pipewire (by dave on 2022-08-22 01:45:46 GMT from United States)
Even though it feels really good to see another project ditching Polypaudio, I'm not going to pretend that Pipewire is without its share of problems. I will withhold my glee until we know whether Pipewire will simply become another Pulseaudio or if it will exceed expectations. I have not tried it myself but have seen some mixed results from others.
I still occasionally go rawdawg ALSA/JACK-only, on some systems. I have a couple of old machines that are set up purely for virtual instruments and those have always worked a zillion times better by just totally ripping out pulse (or in one of those examples, never installing it to begin with) I will try to remain optimistic about Pipewire for the time being and pray that its developer(s) have agreeable attitudes and good practices, though I'm assuming there is going to be some overlap with the Pulse devs.
2 • Updates... (by Friar Tux on 2022-08-22 02:00:05 GMT from Canada)
I voted "To manually handle checks and upates myself". Since day one, I have always set Fridays aside to manually update and backup my stuff. For me, because of habit, notifications mean nothing.
3 • Command Line Only! (by schhibba on 2022-08-22 02:47:45 GMT from United States)
I have been using rarspios on pi's for the past 6-7 years in command line mode only -- use it to run python programmes ... and control embedded hw .. runs git etc. the regular software management toolchain -- so this is Preopesis -- is not such a novely -- that's how we were using Unix 40 years back .. with a terminal running over a modem @1200 (oh yes even 300 bauds)!
4 • Updates and peros (by Dr. Hu on 2022-08-22 03:22:26 GMT from Philippines)
Updating: I dislike nagging popups and such. Notifications as done by Linux Mint and MX are fine. Otherwise, I do it manually and disable any nags.
Peropesis: Whoever came up with the name should be fired, or at least spanked. Sounds like a disease. Google agrees, I googled peropesis, and it asked: Did you mean proptosis? Don't have a use for either one, but whatever floats someone's boat. . . However, it would have been nice to see a comparison to TIny Core.
5 • software updates (by Trihexagonal on 2022-08-22 03:32:21 GMT from United States)
When using FreeBSD I manually check for software vulnerabilities using pkg audit -F.
Depending on the situation I may update using ports, which are quickest to update a vulnerable port, or wait till an updated pkg is issued if it's going to be less work. Mixing port and pkg routine for me.
When using Kali GNU/Linux, a rolling-release, I update every 2-3 days using apt or apt-get.
6 • Notified of updates? Not for the general public! (by Greg Zeng on 2022-08-22 03:49:57 GMT from Australia)
The readers of Distrowatch are not at all normal. Most computer users have other "real life" concerns, other than the hidden infrastructures of living.
Distrowatch interests seem so focussed on minority, small & perhaps petty uses, rather than normal "real life" issues.
Most humans are wanting our autonomic systems to be silently autonomic. Babies & oldies like myself experience badly functioning autonomic systems. We need the autonomic doctors, the Distrowatch specialists, to try to diagnose our autonomic breakdowns, our "dysautonomia", to use the correct medical term.
The mainstream is Microsoft & Apple. With Android sometimes being noticed by the general public. Updates and infrastructure stuff? Leave that to the Distrowatch geeks and the politicians, like Xi, Trump, Putin or whoever.
Meantime Microsoft (Github, "The Linux Foundation", as documented under "Microsoft & open source", Wikipedia), Alphabet (Google, Android, etc), Meta (ex-Facebook), Apple & other Big-Money lobbyists are trying (.Net, Direct-X, Java, etc) to mold minorities like Linux and open source into the mainstream systems.
Distrowatch & Linux are trying to stay relevant with evolving update systems, in "Snap" & "Flatpak" for some larger applications. On the side of these minority idealists are a few non-commercial interests: the European Union, the International Standards Organization, and a few other vaguely effective lobbyists.
7 • Conky: 12/24 hour format (by Leon on 2022-08-22 05:10:18 GMT from France)
@61 (by MXgogo from South Africa)
"... but on none of them does the Conky clock show the time in 24-hour format. And I can't figure out what needs to be changed in the Conky configuration file."
Swap %H for %I (inside .conkyrc file in your home directory) or vice versa to swap between 12/24 hour format.
8 • Updates (by Bin on 2022-08-22 05:59:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
Unattended upgrades - been using it for years
Computers are supposed to make life easier by automating things, and no I'm not going the scan the source code for every update, so just do it!
Once UA is configured (which can take a little while) all it takes is a single crontab entry and 3 minutes after every boot, updates are applied.
9 • Updates (by Operius on 2022-08-22 06:44:33 GMT from Netherlands)
@8 (Bin)
Would it not be better to update your system at shutdown or reboot? When updating silently 3 minitues after boot there is a good chance that you'll end up using out of date software mixed with software that depends on the newer versions that got silently installed. For example, you could run firefox after boot. 3 Minutes later it gets an security update, but you will still be using the old version until firefox gets restarted. Then even if you restart firefox it might not work because the newer version depends on newer software that is not in use yet because of the same reason. Maybe this is a bad example, but I hope you'll get what I'm trying to say.
10 • .Net on Canonical Ubuntu (by borgio3 on 2022-08-22 07:15:08 GMT from Italy)
Another piece is added to Microsoft's plan to conquer and buy Linux. Canonical + Microsoft .Net is a disgrace to the whole open-source world. Yet another small step to the destruction of the Linux ideal.
11 • Debian unattended-upgrades (by Alexandru on 2022-08-22 07:25:30 GMT from Romania)
It is worth mentioning that Debian by default notifies users about new software availability but does not install it. However, this behavior can be changed by installing unattended-upgrades package. After that, Debian will silently install new software as soon as it becomes available. Of course, as usual with Debian, almost any aspect of such updates can be configured.
I use this package on my wife's computer. I myself prefer to install software manually.
12 • .NET on Ubuntu.... (by Marc Visscher on 2022-08-22 09:42:52 GMT from Netherlands)
Ubuntu is becoming Microsoft's b*tch by adding even more Microsoft bloat into their system. Microsoft got Canonical under their influence entirely, and that's a very bad thing (my opinion!)
I used to be an Ubuntu fan a couple of years ago, but Canonical stooped so low I can't even consider (and see) Ubuntu as "Linux" anymore. I stay away from it as far as I can, and I'm really starting to dislike the distro, and therefore Canonical also.
Linux Mint is still using Ubuntu as a base, but for how long? The LM boys and girls already made some prediction by maintaining LMDE next to the "normal" version. They already knew that if Ubuntu was drifting away from everything it used to stand for way back in the days, they still can rely on Debian as a base. A very wise decision, and well thought of Clement.
I think the time has come very soon that Linux Mint is going to leave "the parent" and go a seperate way. Mark my words (no pun intended)...
I still have one Ubuntu installation on a laptop. This afternoon that distro is gone! Because that is what I need to do to remove unwanted software. Bye Bye Ubuntu! Enjoy your master from Redmond. And never call yourself "Linux" anymore please!
13 • @10, .net and buying Linux (by Justme on 2022-08-22 09:49:52 GMT from United States)
Funny how lovers of free and open source software complain whenever anyone uses that same software in ways that these freedom lovers don't approve of. I have no idea how Linux can be "conquered and bought" since its free for the taking by Microsoft or anyone who want to use it in any manner they see fit as long as they comply with the terms of the license.
14 • update notifications (by 0323pin on 2022-08-22 10:26:21 GMT from Sweden)
IMO, notifications are the most annoying and disruptive invention.
I switch them off on all devices including my android phone. So, thanks but, no thanks when comes to notifications.
15 • Updates (by fenglengshun on 2022-08-22 10:26:48 GMT from Indonesia)
I prefer to be informed when there's an update. It's part of why I'm somewhat okay with Manjaro - I don't want to think about it, but if I have to update, then I want it in a predictable time, where I can monitor it for issues. I left Windows because of Windows Updates, so I think I have a weird paranoia against them even if I do want them. Auto-update sounds nice, but I don't trust them, and I still remember the days of having limited internet quota that I prefer not having any surprise big data use.
16 • Updates (by Sidney Skinner on 2022-08-22 11:00:33 GMT from Barbados)
I do updates manually when notified. Notice Deepin is Chinese, mainly used in the Peoples Republic of China and gets automatic updates.Very suspicious Under normal situations automatic updates are fine.
17 • updates (by wally on 2022-08-22 11:36:34 GMT from United States)
One of my first tasks each day is to check the status of my main system, then run a small script to check, optionally update, and remove packages.
For my many other systems which are only booted as needed, the same script is manually run right after boot.
18 • Updates (by Otis on 2022-08-22 13:26:29 GMT from United States)
I don't have a rule about it across all distros I use. Some auto and some I check using the shell.
19 • Microsoft (by Semiarticulate on 2022-08-22 14:04:29 GMT from United States)
@13 Microsoft has been caught red-handed in the past making use of open source software in their operating system while not complying with the terms of the license. Coming as a surprise to literally no one, Microsoft hasn't exactly been a champion of free and open software. They are a corporation in the business of making money. Perhaps a healthy dose of skepticism is warranted.
@3 You gave me terrible flashbacks of networking over a 300 baud modem! Ouch.
20 • @19, MS and open source (by Justme on 2022-08-22 14:31:07 GMT from United States)
"Perhaps a healthy dose of skepticism is warranted." Count me as a healthy skeptic, so when you make accusations, I expect evidence.
If you are referring to things like this:
https://www.itprotoday.com/windows-78/inside-story-how-microsofts-open-source-code-theft-was-discovered
Then you better read past the headline. This was back in 2009, BTW. MS has been contributing to open source for some years.
https://opensource.microsoft.com/
There is in some cultures something referred to as "the crab mentality." It is rampant in the Linux world. When crabs destined for the kitchen are placed in a container, some try to climb and escape. But when a crab is near reaching the top, the lower crabs pull it down. If anyone reaches any financial success with Linux, such as Red Hat and Canonical, they get demonized by the have-nots. There is nothing wrong with making money, or even getting very rich from open source. It's just very difficult to achieve due to the licenses.
21 • @13 hostile takeover of an OS (by Cynic on 2022-08-22 15:01:04 GMT from Ghana)
It really isn’t that complicated..
Get your closed source development tools and accompanying utilities like Teams running on the target OS.. then encourage and hire developers to expand the platform till major programs run on it that industries make a required standard.
Once you’ve taken over the 3rd party app market because you have thousands of developers churning things out, you flip the switch and make the use of .net on the OS a paid service OR force the company (Canonical) to charge money for its “compliant” system.. you’ll then end up with something so close to Windows that the difference won’t matter. Consider Ubuntu “Linux” killed for all intents and purposes at that point..
22 • @21, hostile takeover (by Justme on 2022-08-22 15:27:58 GMT from United States)
Delusions of grandeur. Say Ubuntu takes up 10% of Linux desktop share. That's 10% of maybe 2%, or .2%. Do you really think that Satya Nadella is staying up nights trying to figure out how to get that slice of the pie? Back in the Ballmer days, he and MS were really worried that Linux was going to take over the desktop. Obviously, that hasn't happened, nor is it likely to. The world has moved on. MS, Google, Oracle, et al. get loads of benefits from open sourced with little or no cost or effort because the licenses say it must be freely shared. Why in the world would they want to upset the apple cart?
Here's something different: MS is trying to protect the developers of paid open source software on it's store from having their apps "stolen," cloned, etc. it's a thankless task, for obvious reasons.
https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/15/dissecting-microsofts-delayed-policy-to-ban-commercial-open-source-apps/
23 • Open Source, the Windows/Canonical "takeover" (by Otis on 2022-08-22 15:33:57 GMT from United States)
My goodness we do have extremists in the Linux world, just as in the rest of the world and political world these days. I hope I'm not one of those extremists by opining that open source licensing and just about every other aspect of computing was predicted long ago to be exploited to the hilt by any entity that had the resources to do so.
It does not mean a "takeover" unless the majority or a large minority of users need and deploy the
elements exploited by the big companies. Then all you have is the (predictable.. predicted) market
speaking back to us. Read 'em and weep, as they say in the smoke filled rooms.
24 • Capitalism in all it's manifestations (by Someguy on 2022-08-22 15:52:23 GMT from United Kingdom)
"...nothing wrong with making money, or even getting very rich..." - classic attitude from across the water, and can't entirely dismiss where they learnt such misplaced delusions, cf Boris et al.
We were taught that it is better to give than to receive. There is genuine pleasure in helping fol-ks for nil reward. Not a classics scholar like aforementioned gent's bogus claim, but didn't the Greek philosophers outline the principles for equity, stability and happiness. Be sure covetous-ness and greed will destroy us all.
25 • Updates (by Pogi Americano on 2022-08-22 16:22:24 GMT from United States)
I must be blessed by the Great Linux God and Linus Torvalds because I've never had an update problem. I've been using Linux since you could purchase a book with Red Hat CDs attached to the covers. My first distribution was Slackware. After a lot of "on the job learning" I figured things out and haven't had a problem since...Well, nothing that I couldn't figure out anyway. I use the "automatic" stuff wherever I can get it. If something does go wrong I look at it with an attitude of learning and not one of "this update sucks". ... Yeah, I realize that not everyone has the time to learn their particular system, but I also realize that those who are working to improve Linux are mostly doing so without pay (except Red Hat and a few others) just because they like the idea of Open Source software. ... I also use automatic stuff because I'm basically lazy.
26 • Update notifications (by JeffC on 2022-08-22 16:25:37 GMT from United States)
I voted to be notified of available updates so I can apply them myself.
A small icon on the panel changing color is not an obnoxious nuisance.
My favored web browser needs to be restarted right after updated or it becomes unusable, so updating needs to be at my convenience not silently done in the background.
I have done manual checking for updates in the past and could go back to it, but computers like other machines are intended to make our lives easier, not for us to serve them.
27 • @4 Peropesis disease (by corona on 2022-08-22 16:42:52 GMT from United States)
"Peropesis: Whoever came up with the name should be fired, or at least spanked. Sounds like a disease. Google agrees..."
Very funny comment. They need to have a more catchy name:
"personal operating system". POS wouldn't work;we know what that means already.
28 • got crabs?? (by dave on 2022-08-22 17:18:24 GMT from United States)
@20 How does the 'top crab' reach the point of escape? By climbing on the backs of the
other crabs. If only a few crabs are able to do this before there are not enough crabs to climb on, then what happens to the crabs that are unable to escape? They get cooked and eaten.
As usual, you portray an unrealistic situation in which everyone who criticizes Red Hat,
Google, etc (the 'have-nots', as you callously put it) is simply driven by envy and jealousy;
that there is no legitimate reason to criticize their passive-aggressive 'My Way Or The
Highway' business model and how they leverage their increasingly consolidated power to
steer the entire Linux sphere in to a position that solely benefits them-- keeping them on top..
or again, to refer to your hyperbolic crabs, positions them to 'escape the container' at the
expense of everyone else.
Much like @6 you seem to consistently imply that the only way for Linux to exist is for it to
emulate Windows or OSX, or to be totally absorbed by Microsoft, Google, etc; that the
megacorps are the only stewards capable of guiding Linux development. Greg Zeng also
implies that older people can't be bothered with system updates, despite the fact that
Friar Tux (who, no offense, I think has previously mentioned being an older fellow) just said
that he prefers to do them manually. Also, Greg.. what the heck does Xi, Putin and Trump
have anything to do with system updates? You sound a bit preoccupied and maybe next
time you could do us all a favor and check your political hatchet at the door.
I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong (lol) but I don't believe Ballmer ever once expressed
concern that Linux would take over the desktop. In those days, Ballmer was heavily
advocating for Windows to be used in the server market and he knew that he was fighting an
uphill battle because Linux was gobbling up the marketshare from the failing Sun
Microsystems. Ballmer's animosity toward Linux had little or nothing to do with the desktop
market and I would expect that a person like you who is always pointing out Linux's
insignificant desktop marketshare, would grasp that fact.
Funny how in virtually every sociopolitical setting, the average person screeches about the
rights of minorities, but when it comes to technology, suddenly the average person demands
that the minority should bow in absolute, unquestioning subservience to the majority; that
the minority should conform or be extinguished.
Linux, BSD, etc have existed for a long time without kowtowing to the majority of computer
users and they will continue to do so, despite the repeated cries of those who demand that
they be 100% assimilated in to the corporate collective. Even if some brand of Linux
achieved widespread, mainstream adoption, there would remain a 'fringe' userbase who
would continue to do things their own way. You should get used to that and stop trying to
portray it as a problem.
It's also 'funny' how there seems to be a small handful of regular commentators on DW that
seem to hate the site, hate its readers and hate Linux. We don't need to be bludgeoned over
our heads with your weekly diatribes extolling the corporate behemoths and insisting that we
all should worship at the same altar.
29 • @24, @28 Utopia and crabby ones (by Justme on 2022-08-22 18:03:36 GMT from United States)
@24, "Be sure covetous-ness and greed will destroy us all." Ah, yes! Utopia. I think the last of those dreamers, small but idealistic, were the kibbutzim. Where are they now? Doesn't a little light bulb back of your thinking wonder why all the movements based on mutual sharing, all the ones that succeed end up as oppressive dictatorships? Every single one. How many people does MS employ? How many did Mother Teresa?
@28, "you seem to consistently imply that the only way for Linux to exist is for it to emulate Windows or OSX" I'm lost. You may want to point me to where I imply such a thing. Maybe you think of Linux as this smallish limited thing. but it is much more. My phones and tablets use the Linux kernel, so does my router and some other gadgets. Linux is massive server farms and state of the art supercomputers. It is tiny things like watches and single board computers like Pi. Desktop Linux is only a small part, and also a small part of the desktop PC universe.
I have no stake in Canonical or Red Hat, but if they succeed, more power to them. And they don't do it on my back, or yours. Don't want to use them? Fine. There's Arch, Debian/Devuan, Void, Slackware, et al., or roll your own with LFS or some other. That's what freedom is.
30 • Auto updates (by Hank on 2022-08-22 19:00:52 GMT from Netherlands)
all it takes is a single crontab entry and 3 minutes after every boot, updates are applied.
Great about three days ago, uatomagically wrecked my install when Nvidia driver update came along.
Never ever again. It is one thing being reckless and just updating, no control anymore is nuts...
31 • deepin goes proprietary (by dipin on 2022-08-22 19:14:32 GMT from Moldova)
seems to me that deepin is going to be a proprietary distro path, cause no source code of package manager was presented. it is not available on their https://linglong.dev site, and neither in their github.
p.s:
Still, I am glad that they are doing well, if can afford to throw away all the work Debian project is doing in creating a great distro, and Ubuntu with patching some rough edges left in Debian.
32 • .NET and GNU/Linux (by Edward on 2022-08-22 19:17:09 GMT from Austria)
.NET was in vogue in 2008-2009 for Linux application development.
Do you remember Banshee, Beagle, F-Spot and Tomboy? Back then Novell embraced Mono, now Canonical adopts MS .NET.
Let's see what the next iteration will bring to us.
33 • nagging updates (by Rincewind III on 2022-08-22 19:18:48 GMT from New Zealand)
as a user of a mainstream distro, the system is, by default, set to check for updates 5 minutes after login and then every 3 hours after.
Both these update time checks are adjustable by a GUI slider to a maximum of 30min or 24hrs respectively.
if an update is available, there is a popup for a few seconds and an icon appears in the system tray. it is not a "nagging" notification. just an icon, same as the wifi, bluetooth and speaker. If that is "nagging", I guess your system tray has no icons.
I choose to proceed or not with any update, either by clicking the icon or via virtual terminal
34 • also deepin new store ignores IP rights and has piracy (by dipin on 2022-08-22 19:26:44 GMT from Moldova)
Seems to me that deepin new store is all about piracy.
cause it has some proprietary apps packaged by them.
and there is no info at all about who packaged them, when etc.
https://store.linglong.dev/
If you scroll to page 6 in the store: you can find Adobe Photoshop CS 6 packaged as a linux app.
+ IntelliJ Ultimate
+ Onenote
+ Sublime Text
So something is spooky here...
35 • Updates (by bittermann on 2022-08-22 20:14:52 GMT from United States)
Mint system tray icon lets me know when there are updates. Nothing in your face, just click and look what updates there are. Easy peasy!
By the way I voted notify and let me choose when to update. Prefer that method over others.
36 • Manual updates. (by Friar Tux on 2022-08-22 20:33:33 GMT from Canada)
@30 (Hank) I have an ongoing similar issue which would create problems at every update (so far), By manually updating I solve the issue before it loads the new files. (I use Orage Calendar on my laptop but every new update wants to load on the latest version of “xfce4-panel”. This, however, holds a file, of files, that break Orage Calendar to the point that the system thinks I've uninstalled the calendar. By manually dropping the last version of xfce4-panel from the update list and leaving the old version I save a lot of work each update trying to reinstall Orage. As I mentioned above, I update weekly.
@28 (dave) No offence taken I'm 70 for those that are interested.
37 • Updates (by Ken on 2022-08-23 03:03:46 GMT from United States)
When I used a distro using a standard release model and updates only came every few days, I appreciated having a notification that new updates were available.
Now that I use distros using a rolling release model and there are multiple package updates a day, I don't need a notification. The first thing I do when I log in for the day is update the system.
38 • Updates (by Dr.J on 2022-08-23 06:28:56 GMT from Germany)
my Arch system has been running for over ten years now and is updated every day. But manually. I
have automated many processes via cronjobs, but no updates. These are the reasons: 1) Critical
updates (kernel, xorg, runit etc). If an update is pending here, I always take a snapshot of the (virtual) system beforehand, because who knows.... 2) Minor updates: I don't always go with them. 3) Blocked
updates. I have blocked quite a few updates via pacman.conf, such as virtualbox. Experience shows
that new updates often make problems here and to x.x-2 versions. I don't have to go along with
that.
39 • Deepin, @31, @34 (by Dr. Hu on 2022-08-23 12:13:02 GMT from Philippines)
Deepin already has a commercial OS it's called UOS, deepin is the community release. Past versions used to come with a license that applied to both,and one was supposed to ignore the parts that applied to those in mainland China. They are not just a little distro trying to make it big, they are already big in China. Wuhan Deepin Technologies is a subsidiary of Union Tech, and they partner with Huawei.
Linglong looks like a work in progress. (Deepin v23 is still a preview.) Since they are making it available to other distros I expect it is open source and the code should be available. Their forums might be the best place to ask. Everything else is on GitHub.
The store is just a place you download from. Maybe they need to improve oversight of the store, Since i had deepin running in a VM, I downloaded Photoshop. It is not 'packaged' by anyone. It a download of a Windows installer. Takes very long to download. What Linglong is bring up Wine for installation. It is in Chinese, and as soon as it opens an Adobe popup tells you that the license is expired. So if it's piracy, it's really quite sloppy. In this part of the world, piracy is pretty efficient. If I want Photoshop, I can go down to the nearest PC shop and get one which will show as licensed, or I can download a copy.
For now, to use Windows apps it's simpler just to install Wine and PlayOnLinux and download from the proper website.
40 • updates (by James on 2022-08-23 17:23:39 GMT from United States)
I generally run sudo apt-get update and sudo apt-get upgrade every morning when I boot my laptop.
Only takes a few seconds, and I can see what needs updating and do it right away or wait until it is
convenient. No forced updates.
41 • Update policies vary with distro (by AdamB on 2022-08-23 22:41:39 GMT from Australia)
I am currently dependent on Devuan, Arch and Void.
I have a couple of older laptops running Mint and Ubuntu MATE.
I was quite quite happy with Mint showing a notification icon in the system tray.
I was less happy when Ubuntu MATE went to popping up an update utility.
A system tray notification icon would work for Devuan, but, as #37 points out, doesn't make sense for a rolling-release distro.
I am quite happy to manually update my Devuan, Arch and Void machines - not that I need to do it very often on Devuan.
Doing updates manually gives me the most information about what is happening.
42 • Update notifier (by Brezel on 2022-08-24 07:23:30 GMT from Germany)
Update notifiers and update tools are useful. I also can't imagine anyone in a serious professional environment who has the time or inclination to open the Linux terminal to perform syntax acrobatics. If you are interested in Linux becoming a serious alternative for everyone, you really welcome every step towards work economization. I also don't see it critically when software developers cooperate.
43 • Tightwire Typist (by Trihexagonal on 2022-08-24 09:11:52 GMT from United States)
@42 " I also can't imagine anyone in a serious professional environment who has the time or inclination to open the Linux terminal to perform syntax acrobatics."
The Syntax Acrobats are the people in IT you would be calling when your Linux workstation shut down.
44 • Software updates (by Kazlu on 2022-08-24 09:39:49 GMT from France)
I am used to and appreciate the "be notified of updates so I can apply them" behaviour. Whenever I am very busy for several days I can forget about updates, so it's good that I am discretely reminded (the MX Linux popup is just fine). And at the same time, I don't want updates to disrupt my workflow, so I want to be able to finish whatever I was doing and then process updates before doing something else (critical with Firefox if you are shopping online or logged in your banking website or whatever needs time to be done).
However, I also take care of the computer of a relative, who never thinks of software updates, even with notifications on, no matter how many times I explained the necessity to do them. They just won't remember it, and whenever they do there are so many updates to process that applying them is seen as a nuisance (just like Windows updates...). But since I got them Linux Mint and set up Timeshift along with automatic updates, things have completely changed. It is very easy to do since you are guided through the set up process from the welcome window. And since then, their computer is always up-to-date. Over a handful of years, there was a critical problem maybe once that justified the use of Timeshift to rollback, identify and solve the problem that was, in this case, not very complicated to my enthusiast-but-far-from-professional knowledge. The Linux Mint way of guiding you through a very robust and efficient set up is remarkable. Only now can I start thinking about doing auto updates for myself. I am not there yet, but at least it has become viable in my opinion.
45 • Updates and .NET (by Miki on 2022-08-24 10:39:05 GMT from Serbia)
I voted "I like to be notified". Truth to be told, I prefer it the way Linux Mint does it... There are no intrusive notifications and you have an option to make updates automatic on the computers where that is the only sane option (mostly due to the users using them).
Related to the .NET and Ubuntu I don't see reasons for hate, though I agree with Linux Mint's (Clem's) reasoning to stick with pure deb packages. Microsoft is not an evil corporation it used to be 10-15 years ago and they are very vested in open source these days (especially server side). If we look at JAVA and Linux "open source" implementations, .NET is a first class open source citizen on Linux and if Microsoft ever decides to discontinue support for it, it can be forked on a good starting base.
46 • ravynOS (by Miki on 2022-08-24 11:05:13 GMT from Serbia)
Interesting project... It seems that ravinOS is trying to become not just "FreeBSD-based project which strives to recreate a macOS-style user interface" but as in their own words "ravynOS is explicitly trying to be compatible with Mac software at a source and eventually a binary level, without losing support for FreeBSD/X11 software, and to implement a very similar experience on the desktop and at the command line". Idea might be more feasible than ReactOS is, but we'll see how much progress and traction project gets.
47 • Topics (by Cheker on 2022-08-24 19:44:56 GMT from Portugal)
Everything manually. I genuinely like to do it and look at what's going on and see if anything went wrong afterwards.
@28 Good post. As long as there's someone out there that doesn't like the big boys' OS, there will be Linux and BSD.
48 • offline software updates/upgrades (by MS does it better on 2022-08-24 21:17:24 GMT from United States)
Recently, Ubuntu released with a caveat that no offline upgrade is possible (or something similar).
MS (enterprise, I think) has had the option of offline upgrades/updates for a long time, why can't we have that?
The internet is an unfortunate evil, and it would be best to abolish it as soon as possible, however, in the short-term, minimizing our connection to it as much as possible is the best policy. MS gets this.
Maybe it's a bandwidth thing. Debian (for example) should ask Cloudflare for help, if they have bandwidth issues.
49 • ravynOS (by linux hater on 2022-08-24 21:54:00 GMT from United States)
Props for using BSD instead of Linux.
(RedHat has almost completely destroyed Linux, and along with Ubuntu trying to become not-debian as much as possible (and turning into a broken mess much of the time), Linux is really a wasteland nowadays.)
That said, as much as I don't like Linux nowadays, I really, REALLY don't like Apple.
I haven't tried the Solaris clones, but it might be nice to have a different GUI, that isn't praise to a price-gouging, harmful monopoly. On a finer, hair-splitting note, some of the earlier GUI ideas of macOS, before Tim Cook's destruction of Apple (virtual textures instead of simple traffic lights on grey), were pretty cool (I think this might've also been a Windows Me thing).
Also, Wayland? Really?
Please, no.
Wayland hardly works on Linux and is the source of many showstopping bugs.
(After reading up on it, I can see some slight improvements to X, but, really, still not ready, IMHO.)
50 • Ravyn/Airyx/OS (by fickle facts on 2022-08-24 22:14:56 GMT from France)
@46, @49: "RavynSoft, The home of RavynOS (formerly airyxOS) open desktop operating system and related projects"
AiryxOS was covered on distrowatch some weeks ago? They've changed the name already - not a great sign. Apparently some ppl were complaining that the name "AiryxOS" was difficult to read or understand. By trying to emulate Apple's OS, they could have named it something more appropriate, like maybe "StrudelOS".
51 • @45, @48 Evil (by Sebastian on 2022-08-24 22:59:19 GMT from Iceland)
@45: "Microsoft is not an evil corporation it used to be 10-15 years ago"
Its evilness just increased in this time period. It got good PR by being "open source friendly" but their adoption of open source is purely pragmatic.
@48: "The internet is an unfortunate evil ..."
No, it is not. It is an evolved pile of mess but it's useful and it can be tolerated
"... Ask Cloudflare for help" - I wouldn't touch it with a kilometer-long pole. That's real evil.
52 • Offline upgrades, evil internet, pragmatism (by Justme on 2022-08-25 04:29:44 GMT from United States)
@48, "MS (enterprise, I think) has had the option of offline upgrades/updates for a long time, why can't we have that?" And how do you get the package, by courier? There's apt-offline, and of course you can download the ISOs, or have them delivered if you choose.
"The internet is an unfortunate evil" The internet is just the internet. Only people and their actions can be good or evil. Every human invention and advance can be used for evil purposes: fire, the wheel, explosives, gun powder, knives, straight razors, the printing press, and on ad nauseam. Abolish the internet, and whatever you replace it with will have just the same or more potential to be used for evil purposes.
@51, "but their (MS) adoption of open source is purely pragmatic." My use of open source is purely pragmatic. If a proprietary system or app will do a superior job and is affordable, I will use that. I'm typing on Debian testing, but I do keep a (nameless) proprietary system at the ready for those times when open source just won't do.
All this talk about 'evil" corporations. Maybe some people think Linux and open source rain down like manna from heaven. But it is these evil corporations that provide paying jobs. How do you think free software developers live? Donations? Gimme a break! DW publishes a list of donations sometimes. Take a look at the fortunes they gather. Charge for their apps? How, if they can be redistributed at will, and anyone with a modicum of knowledge can clone and rename them?
I started using Linux Mint in 2006, and I remember Clem having to move for a new job, because he had to work someplace so he could have the time and money for his project. I certainly hope that with the success of Linux Mint these days, he not only makes enough from it, but a lot more than enough. He deserves it.
Some people see companies like Red Hat and Canonical as growing monsters trying to spoil their toys. I see them as places where people work and get paid, where they can earn enough to sustain themselves and their families and maybe also have the leisure time and wherewithal to follow pursuits they enjoy, such as open source software. The more success they have, the more jobs they create. Starving is for artists.
53 • Linux funding (by Justme on 2022-08-25 07:28:31 GMT from United States)
In case anyone wonders how Linux is funded, these are the members of The Linux Foundation:
https://www.linuxfoundation.org/our-members-are-our-superpower-2/
From this funding, Linus Torvald, as benevolent dictator for life gets around 1.5 million USD per year. His net worth is about $50 million. No complaints from this corner. He has earned it, and more. His moral fiber does not suffer because he does not live on donations and in some roach infested tenement.
So it's no secret. Development of the Linux kernel is funded by a bunch of corporations, some or all of them will be considered "evil" by some.
54 • Linux Kernel Funding (by Otis on 2022-08-25 11:58:24 GMT from United States)
I want to understand. We can all read the list of donors/enablers of the Linux Foundation, but with what do we walk away from that list? Thoughts of infiltration of a once rebellious alternative to Microsoft and Apple? Benevolent exploitation for a good cause that just needs money? Etc.
For 2% of the desktop market?
55 • @54, Linux Kernel Funding (by Justme on 2022-08-25 14:07:18 GMT from United States)
"Benevolence or infiltration." It doesn't have to be either. @51 used the proper word: "pragmatic." They do it because they benefit. Google is a prime example. They took the kernel, put an OS on top, and gave it away. Because of their business model which thrives on ad revenue, it became a goldmine. Funny that people complain about Linux desktops imitating Windows, but don't see how much the Windows desktop has learned from Linux: multiple workspaces, the new control center, for examples.
Years ago, MS was mostly Windows and Office, and they saw Linux as an existential threat. How were they going to charge for their OS when PC manufacturers could get something for free? As it turns out, it didn't happen and it's not likely to, due to the nature of the GPL. And MS is now a different company with other revenue streams. In the end, even Windows may go open source, not because they have become altruists, but because they may see a benefit in doing so.
Corporate culture is top-down, and all work to achieve as set goal. This can result in more polished products, but it can stifle creativity. Open source is a free-for-all, and while it can be incoherent and patchy, it is a more fertile ground for new ideas. Since these can't be patented, they are free to corporations to learn and adapt to their use. Some corporations use Linux directly because it may be of advantage to them.
The moral interaction between men/women, is not to give with no reward expected, nor to take without expecting payment. It is to trade value for value.
Number of Comments: 55
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