 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 981, 15 August 2022 |
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Welcome to this year's 33rd issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
Constructing a good computing experience involves balancing a lot of elements. Developers need to make choices between convenience and security, accessibility and clutter, performance and features. Finding the right balance between these aspects for a wide range of people is a challenge and one which is especially critical in desktop operating systems. This week we begin with a look at one distribution which attempts to find the right mixture of all these variables: Linux Lite. Ivan Sanders takes the latest version of Linux Lite for a test drive and reports on how this Ubuntu-based, desktop distribution performs. In our Questions and Answers column we continue to talk about performance versus features as we discuss the various components of a desktop and what the difference is between a desktop environment and a window manager. Do you run a plain window manager? Let us know about your setup in this week's Opinion Poll. In our News section we discuss Linux Mint providing an upgrade process for existing users who want to run the new Linux Mint 21 release. We also share updates and reports of ongoing work happening the FreeBSD project. Plus we are pleased to share the releases of the past week along with the torrents we are seeding. We wish you all a wonderful week and happy reading!
Content:
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| Feature Story (by Ivan Sanders) |
Linux Lite 6.0
It has been two years since a DistroWatch review of Linux Lite. There are at least 93 distros on DistroWatch that support the Xfce desktop environment, but the out-of-the-box configuration of Linux Lite is pleasing, simple to use, and straightforward to most computer users. Linux Lite describes itself as, "... a 'gateway operating system'. Your first simple, fast and free stop in the world of Linux." Does it meet the muster? Can it truly be a strong first stop in the world of Linux?
Installation
Linux Lite 6.0, code name Fluorite, was released on 31 May 2022 at 16:23 (it's unclear if that was local time for me or for the server). The installation process is very simple, and it uses one of the most straightforward installation wizards. Even a completely new Linux user could likely click their way through a Linux Lite install. The live environment boots to a Lite Welcome splash screen with such options as Install Updates, Install Drivers, Set a Restore Point, etc. While some of these features may be useful, the most obvious choice is Install Now, thus beginning the installation process. WiFi worked out of the box, which is always good news. The installer then gives the user the option to download updates while installing and we can opt to install third-party software for WiFi and graphics drivers.
Linux Lite 6.0 -- Partitioning the disk from the system installer
(full image size: 164kB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
For the purpose of this review, I've installed Linux Lite on my main machine and agreed to follow the simplest option of erasing my disk and allowing the installer to take over. I did, however, want this to be a fair and impartial review, so I selected advanced features. I was impressed and surprised with the option to erase the disk and use ZFS, complete with full disk encryption for security. As disk encryption is my preferred method of installing Linux (however usually LUKS with ext4 or Btrfs) I decided to try out ZFS which is an advanced and very well developed file system. During my usage of Linux Lite I had no issues with ZFS.
Daily usage
I have used Linux Lite almost daily for more than a month. It is an extremely fine distro. The branding is one of the most outstanding features of the distro. The Linux Lite feather logo, background, the website, everything is very well designed. It may prove useful to compare Linux Lite to Xubuntu. The two distros are, after all, 99% identical. Both distros use Xfce as the default desktop environment, and both are based on Ubuntu. Xubuntu is the official Xfce version of Ubuntu, but out of the box I find Xubuntu lacks any cohesive theme (which may well be the point). Linux Lite fills the void left by Xubuntu by providing a well themed Xfce version of Ubuntu out of the box.
Linux Lite 6.0 -- The welcome window
(full image size: 209kB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
The Linux Lite website boasts, "Just 2 clicks to update your system. An update system that will save you hours versus Windows updates." It was true, it was just two clicks to update my system (plus my password and then a reboot, technically a third click). For a while it appeared the updates were hanging, but eventually the downloads and updates went through and the system prompts offering a reboot arrived. Unlike with other operating systems, my update and reboot were not forced and I could continue working before I chose to reboot.
Included in the software is a powerful, albeit complicated, firewall, some other useful utilities such as backup tools and system restore tools, and (most importantly) LibreOffice.
Linux Lite 6.0 -- Accessing common applications
(full image size: 220kB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
Checking out the GUI software installer, it allows the user to install my favorite browser: Firefox. But this comes with a cost - that this will require installing Snap and using Firefox as a Snap package. I have many issues with this, but this is not an article about Canonical's Snap packages or the APT package manager. Linux Lite comes pre-installed with Google's Chrome web browser, easily the most popular browser in the world. The Linux Lite team has decided this is the best course of action because they want people to be comfortable using Linux straight away. If Chrome is not pre-installed, many brand new Linux users may become confused as to how to install their favorite browser. Unfortunately I consider Chrome to be spyware created by one of the largest companies on the planet. Ubuntu provides the user with a method to remove Snap and add the Firefox PPA, or Personal Package Archive. So I removed the ability for the operating system to install Snap packages and enabled the proper PPAs I wanted. It's not an ideal setup, and I am frustrated that Ubuntu is pushing their Snap packages so hard, but I'm glad there is still a work-around. (The Linux Lite 6.0 announcement web page actually provides the instructions for installing Firefox through a PPA!)
I am not a programmer or a fancy black hat, I use Linux because I love using it. I primarily use my computer for web browsing, e-mail, gaming, and streaming content. As a regular Linux user, I have had no trouble using Linux Lite to stream popular services such as Netflix and other streaming services.
The NVIDIA drivers installed without any issue and were useful upon rebooting. NVIDIA support was very good, as can be expected from an Ubuntu based operating system. Even on an Optimus setup (two graphics cards, one integrated and one heavy duty card usually used for gaming), I had no issues utilizing my NVIDIA video card to play games through Steam. In fact, with Linux Lite, I enjoyed the same NVIDIA support and Steam gameplay experience as through Ubuntu or any of Ubuntu's derivative operating systems. Even with my four year old graphics card, I could actually still play some very demanding games through Linux Lite.
Linux Lite 6.0 -- Gaming with the NVIDIA card
(full image size: 2.1MB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
The System Monitor application is incredible. From their announcement, "We've forked the new System Monitoring Centre to provide more specific information regarding Linux Lite... With System Monitoring Centre, you get information about your CPU, RAM, Disk, Network and GPU. You also get Performance, Processes, Startup, Services and System tools and information in one easy to use, highly configurable application. This is one of the nicest, most sensible applications I have seen in the free software world for a long time, and we are lucky to have it." I agree. It is such a breath of fresh air. It is a very useful tool.
Linux Lite 6.0 -- Monitoring resource usage
(full image size: 193kB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
Some small issues: I found the default mouse acceleration to be very aggressive, but this is an easy fix in the mouse / touchpad settings. When I right-clicked to remove a launcher from the panel, this action caused the entire panel to crash. After bringing back up the Xfce panel, I was able to right-click, go through panel preferences, and then to the items tab to remove and add launchers.
Conclusions
Out of the box, Linux Lite is an easy step into the world of Linux computing. It has useful features, it is not overly bloated with unnecessary software, it has great defaults that a user coming from another operating system could learn to love. With the help of Internet searching, any specific issues with Linux Lite can be easily solved. Would I recommend Linux Lite to a user coming from a different operating system? Yes, I might. If the user was coming from Windows and was very apprehensive about using unfamiliar interfaces, Linux Lite has a great theme and a very solid base.
Additional details
After unlocking the LUKS ZFS file system, it took 23 seconds to boot to the login page. This is a little long but definitely faster than other operating systems.
The system used 1,621 MB of RAM upon booting up, with NVIDIA drivers installed. Minimum recommended RAM is 768 MB, but I don't think you would get much Chrome browsing done with that small amount of RAM.
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Hardware used for this review
Laptop - Lenovo Legion Y530
- Processor: Intel Core i7-8750H CPU @ 2.20GHz x 6
- Storage: 256GB NVMe SSD Samsung and 1TB HDD
- Memory: 16GB
- Networking: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411
- Display: 1920x1080 @ 60Hz
- Graphics: Intel Corporation UHD Graphics 630, NVIDIA Corporation GP106M [GeForce GTX 1060 Mobile w/6GB VRAM]
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Visitor supplied rating
Linux Lite has a visitor supplied average rating of: 7.9/10 from 134 review(s).
Have you used Linux Lite? You can leave your own review of the project on our ratings page.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
Mint releases upgrade tool, FreeBSD publishes quarterly status report
Last week we shared a review of Linux Mint 21, the latest release of the popular, desktop distribution. The Mint team has since published upgrade instructions for people running older versions of the Mint distribution. The instructions make use of a tool called Mint Upgrade which automates most of the process. The team also suggests taking one's time with the upgrade: "Read all the instructions and take the time to understand them, ask for help if you're stuck. The instructions will ask you to be up to date and to prepare system snapshots. Don't rush into upgrading and do not take shortcuts."
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The FreeBSD project has published its quarterly status report in which details on work going into the project's operating system, third-party ports, and infrastructure are summarized. The newsletter talks about efforts to allow the makefs utility to create ZFS volumes, improvements to the pf firewall service, and an upgrade to OpenSSH: "OpenSSH, a suite of remote login and file transfer tools, was updated from version 8.8p1 to 9.0p1 in the FreeBSD base system. It has not yet been merged to the stable/13 and stable/12 branches. I anticipate doing so in July. Note: OpenSSH 9.0p1 switches scp(1) from using the legacy scp/rcp protocol to using the SFTP protocol by default. The -O flag is available to use the previous protocol instead." Additional information is provided in the status report.
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Defining parts of the user interface
Picking-up-the-pieces asks: What is the difference between a window manager and desktop environment?
DistroWatch answers: A window manager, as the name suggests, is a piece of software which manages application windows in a graphical environment. In particular, a window manager handles the movement, placement, and behaviour of an application window. If you're placing one window in front of another one or minimizing a window then you're making use of a window manager.
A desktop environment is less strictly defined. Typically a desktop environment includes several pieces of what we consider a graphical user interface. A desktop environment usually includes a window manager, an application menu, and either a panel or a dock. Most desktops have a small collection of applications which will adjust settings, along with a terminal, file manager, and a text editor.
You may have heard some people say that they don't run a full desktop environment, such as KDE Plasma, GNOME, Cinnamon, or Xfce. Instead they just run a window manager in an effort to use a minimal amount of system resources. This can be useful, especially on low resource machines or in situations where performance is key.
What people who take the "just running a window manager" approach often end up doing is adding more components along with the window manager. These may include a dock or panel and some convenience tools and a status monitor. Most people who are running minimal window managers basically end up creating an unofficial desktop environment from various parts.
A simple way to think about it is a window manager is what handles placing and moving applications windows. A desktop environment is a window manager plus the common tools most people use in their graphical environment to make the experience of configuring and exploring the interface more convenient.
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Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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| Released Last Week |
Rescuezilla 2.4
Rescuezilla is a specialist Ubuntu-based distribution designed for system rescue tasks, including backups and system restoration. The project's latest release updates its Ubuntu base, improves support for Btrfs, and sidesteps the Firefox Snap package by using a personal package archive (PPA). "Replaces Ubuntu 21.10 (Impish) build with build based on Ubuntu 22.04 (Jammy) for best support of new hardware. Builds latest version of partclone from source code v0.3.20, instead of OS package. This fixes 'unsupported feature' error for users of compressed BTRFS filesystems (such as Fedora Workstation 33 and newer). Removed old partclone v0.2.43 used to maximize legacy Redo Backup compatibility (modern partclone still provides good backwards compatibility). Fixed execution of Clonezilla EFI NVRAM script to better correctly handle reboot on EFI systems. Switched Firefox to using the Mozilla Team PPA repository, because new Snap packaging is incompatible with Rescuezilla's build scripts. Added ability to compress images using bzip2 algorithm." The project's release notes offer further details.
Rescuezilla 2.4 -- Guided backup and restore options
(full image size: 150kB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
Kali Linux 2022.3
Kali Linux is a Debian-based distribution with a collection of security and forensics tools. The project's latest release is Kali Linux 2022.3 which includes a number of new tools. "In light of 'Hacker Summer Camp 2022' (BlackHat USA, BSides LV and DEFCON) occurring right now, we wanted to push out Kali Linux 2022.3 as a nice surprise for everyone to enjoy. With the publishing of this blog post, we have the download links ready for immediate access, or you can update any existing installation. It would not be a Kali release if there were not any new tools added. A quick rundown of what has been added (to the network repositories): BruteShark - network analysis tool; DefectDojo - open-source application vulnerability correlation and security orchestration tool; phpsploit - stealth post-exploitation framework; shellfire - exploiting LFI/RFI and command injection vulnerabilities; SprayingToolkit - password spraying attacks against Lync/S4B, OWA and O365. There have been numerous packages updates as well." Additional information, including infrastructure changes and documentation updates, can be found in the project's release announcement.
YunoHost 11.0.9
YunoHost, a lightweight, Debian-based distribution for servers and featuring a web-based system administration tool, has been upgraded to version 11.0.9: "Following these last months of alpha and beta testing, we are glad to announce the release of YunoHost 11.0, running on Debian 11 'Bullseye'. This comes along with the latest version of the 4.4 series which includes a Buster-to-Bullseye migration tool to upgrade as simply as possible. Versions 4.x are not expected to receive any upgrades any more (except for important security fixes or migration fixes). Changelog: various tweaks for Python 3.9, PHP 7.4, PostgreSQL 13 and other changes related to Buster-to-Bullseye ecosystem; moved MySQL, PHP and Metronome from 'Depends' to 'Recommends'; apt - add sury by default; MySQL - drop super old MySQL configuration, it now relies on Debian's default; regenconf/helpers - better integration for PostgreSQL; rework repository code architecture; rework where YunoHost files are deployed; try to implement a smarter self-upgrade mechanism to prevent/limit API downtime and related UX issues...." Read the rest of the release announcement for more information.
Ubuntu 22.04.1
Canonical has announced the release of an update to their Ubuntu 22.04 series along with updated official community editions. The new version, 22.04.1, include minor updates, fixes, and improved RISC-V support. "The Ubuntu team is pleased to announce the release of Ubuntu 22.04.1 LTS (Long-Term Support) for its Desktop, Server, and Cloud products, as well as other flavours of Ubuntu with long-term support. As usual, this point release includes many updates, and updated installation media has been provided so that fewer updates will need to be downloaded after installation. These include security updates and corrections for other high-impact bugs, with a focus on maintaining stability and compatibility with Ubuntu 22.04 LTS. 22.04.1 also brings new RISC-V platform support, providing fresh images for the Allwinner Nezha and VisionFive StarFive boards." The release announcement and release notes offer additional information.
SparkyLinux 6.4
SparkyLinux is a lightweight, Debian-based distribution which provides a wide range of editions and development branches. The project's latest release is SparkyLinux 6.4 which is based on Debian 11 "Bullseye". "It is a quarterly updated point release of Sparky 6 'Po Tolo' of the stable line. Sparky 6 is based on and fully compatible with Debian 11 'Bullseye'. Changes: system upgraded from Debian and Sparky stable repos as of August 11, 2022; PC: Linux kernel 5.10.127 (5.19.1 and 5.15.60-ESR can be installed from Sparky unstable repos); ARM: Linux kernel 5.15.32-v7+; Firefox 91.11.0.0esr (103.0.2 and 102.1.0esr Mozilla builds can be installed from Sparky repos as the 'firefox-sparky' and 'firefox-esr-sparky' packages, but they use a new user profile, so your bookmarks, passwords, settings have to be synchronized from the Mozilla account); Thunderbird 91.10.0; VLC 3.0.17; LibreOffice 7.0.4; LXQt 0.16.0; Xfce 4.16; Openbox 3.6.1; KDE Plasma 5.20.5; small improvements." The release announcement offers further details and upgrade instructions.
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 2,757
- Total data uploaded: 42.4TB
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) |
Reasons to run a plain window manager
In this week's Questions and Answers column we talked about window managers. A window manager is a key component of any desktop environment, but window mangers (such as Openbox, Fluxbox, and i3) can be run on their own. Running a plain window manager, without the extra components which come with a full featured desktop environment, provides a lighter and simpler graphical environment. We would like to hear from our readers who run plain window managers what their reasons are for preferring a plain window manager over more feature rich desktop environments.
You can see the results of our previous poll on using sandboxing software in last week's edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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Why do you run a plain window manager?
| Avoiding clutter: | 69 (3%) |
| Customization: | 51 (2%) |
| Educational purposes: | 15 (1%) |
| Performance/Resource usage: | 243 (11%) |
| Other: | 23 (1%) |
| All of the above: | 134 (6%) |
| A combination of the above: | 240 (11%) |
| I do not run a plain window manager: | 1439 (65%) |
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| Website News |
DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 22 August 2022. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Article Search page. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • poll (by Brad on 2022-08-15 01:23:09 GMT from United States)
I'll add one more option to the poll (although I voted for do not...) - I run Sparky Linux and MX-21 Wildflower as rescue distros on a stick, so that I have the option of fixing my (or others') systems when things get botched up.
For me,running a lightweight distro like the above is the only sane option for running "Linux on a stick".
2 • Poll (by dnacif on 2022-08-15 01:41:13 GMT from Chile)
I would add "because it's preinstalled".
3 • Poll, and Linux "Lite" (by Andy Prough on 2022-08-15 01:58:46 GMT from United States)
>"The system used 1,621 MB of RAM upon booting up"
Yowza. I'd hate to think how much memory it would use if its name was "Linux Heavy". That's over 8x what antiX uses on my quite modern laptop. And why a "Lite" distro would use Chrome is a very puzzling question.
Poll - I use DWM because it's super light and fast and because I like the default tiling. Same for Herbstluftwm.
4 • @2 Poll (by Heinrich on 2022-08-15 02:01:20 GMT from United States)
> Because it’s preinstalled
But if you’re choosing a distro with a plain window manager, it’s likely to be for one of the reasons listed. Then again, it’s arguable that even “window-manager distros” like antiX and Bunsen Labs don’t quite use “plain” window managers because they include desktop components and tools that take them partway toward being DEs.
5 • Linux Lite (by Heinrich on 2022-08-15 02:13:03 GMT from United States)
> The system used 1,621 MB of RAM upon booting up, with NVIDIA drivers installed. Minimum recommended RAM is 768 MB
So Linux Lite used more than twice the minimum recommended RAM? With that much usage on first boot, I’d say the minimum is more like 4 GB. It’s hard to see the point of this distro—you might as well be running a more bloated DE like Gnome.
6 • Linux Lite (by David on 2022-08-15 03:21:59 GMT from Serbia)
I used to use Linux Lite 3 (on my old 32bit Acer Asprie One) until the end of support. It was a great experience and I had no serious problems with it. One of my favorites. I don't know how it is these days, but it sounds to me, based on the review, that it's still a great recommendation for the beginners. About RAM memory usage, I am not an expert, but maybe it has something to do withe ZFS?
7 • Memory usage (by anon on 2022-08-15 03:32:06 GMT from Venezuela)
"The system used 1,621 MB of RAM upon booting up"
I'm sure this is a typo or maybe a misunderstood "used" memory value, this is probably including buffers/cache. There's no way XFCE would use that much ram at boot. I run Debian 32 bits with XFCE and after boot it uses 280 MB.
8 • sway (by mahoney on 2022-08-15 04:52:31 GMT from Germany)
I run sway to optimize my workflow.
9 • XFCE, Linux Lite, CLI, WM & DE (by Greg Zeng on 2022-08-15 04:53:39 GMT from Australia)
Linux Lite is reviewed this week. During the last week, Voyager & Xubuntu (both XFCE-based) have been released.
According to today's Distrowatch, there are 265 "Live" Operating Systems detailed. Linux brand names detailed are "only" 242, and others number 23 systems.
All systems can operate without any any desktop being used. If human interaction is needed, then most can use CLI if a terminal emulator is installed.
Humans generally need better than plain terminal emulators. Xerox invented the WIMP protocol: Windows, Icons, Mouse, Pointer). Otherwise, humans had CLI assistants called "Window Managers", to assist keyboard use. WIMP often used more hardware resources, so in primitive computer systems, these resources were very limited and expensive.
@3: ">"The system used 1,621 MB of RAM upon booting up ... over 8x what antiX uses"
@7: "Debian 32 bits with XFCE and after boot it uses 280 MB".
Both comments ignore the human factors: WIMP, cache, speed, history, undo, logging, safety, etc.
Unused resources, such as memory, are wasted if not used. As demand & priority is required, this quantity of resources are auto-modified by good operating systems. Not all systems are "good".
Generally "lite" operating systems can be expanded into "medium" and "heavy" operating systems.
The XFCE interface is The most popular one chosen by the creators of operating systems, both open and closed source.
Voyager differs from Linux Lite, in that it has the AWN dock. Most good Desktop Environments, including XFCE, allow the inbuilt creation of these additional "docks". These "docks" vary in degrees of visibility and adjustments.
My profession (Cognitive Science) is monitoring all operating systems, which are used by many machines, biochemical or not. CLI, WM & DE are human adjusted interfaces, needed by humans. Distrowatch is one of the tools used by Cognitive Science, to track these interfaces: creation, modification, decay and accuracy of predictions of the changes.
XFCE is the most chosen interface, whether any interface is used or not. The current usage of interfaces as documented by the Distrowatch "Search" engine:
BSD 14
LINUX 242
SOLARIS 5
OTHER 4
NO DESKTOP 38
XFCE 91 (6 based on BSD)
KDE 81(57)
LXQT-DE 36+30 (1 not Linux)
GNOME 64
MATE 50 (4 not Linux)
CINNAMON 29 (2 Not Linux)
BUDGIE 12
10 • Linux Lite RAM (by Dr. Hu on 2022-08-15 06:12:29 GMT from Philippines)
My install shows around 540 MB using top, htop or free. The system monitor, however, shows 1.2 GB.
11 • Why do you run a plain window manager? (by 0323pin on 2022-08-15 06:28:29 GMT from Sweden)
Voted other since, I run a plain WM because I don't need a login manager, a seat manager, a system-tray, a file manager, etc.
But most of all, all DE's come with a stacking WM by default and I can't stand stacking windows.
Used WM's in order (from the first to current in use): Awesome -> spectrwm -> frankenwm (over one year without a panel) -> leftwm (currently with lemonbar-xft for tracking of used tags.
12 • WMs (by Dabbler on 2022-08-15 07:19:20 GMT from South Africa)
What type of WM used is determined by what you use the software for. My grandson cannot watch Youtube Kids without a WM.
13 • Desktop Environment (by Dr.J on 2022-08-15 07:21:13 GMT from Germany)
The basic question was and is, why should I use a DE? Even simple DEs like XFCE come with many things that I simply don't need. Not to mention the XFCE goodies. Or KDE, which offer all sorts of things instead of doing one thing well (such as a mail program, which is a real competitor to Outlook). Then there are the many bugs. I kept having problems with XFCE with the panels or autostart/starters etc. Since I use Openbox there is none of that anymore. No superfluous "goodies" that no one needs and no bugs with anything. Also: I don't like the idea of a DE as such. Linux offers us a universe of great programs and I don't understand why I should use the programs that others like and put into a basket (DE is nothing else), a basket that in addition mostly comes with basics that I don't need either (display manager, systemd etc).
These are ways of thinking that fit to the guys from Redmond, but not to Linux. And the constant squinting at Windows only confuses and ultimately doesn't serve its purpose, because Linux will never compete with Windows for the desktop, and if it does, then only in a form like Android has done (and who wants that?).
14 • WMs (by DE-Man on 2022-08-15 09:00:47 GMT from Spain)
I always find window managers frustrating and over-complicated (text settings, etc) if you want a confortable desktop. The use of a desktop environment like Xfce is simpler, and you don't have to install with it any addon or program (or all the 'goodies', etc) if you don't need them: Just select what you want.
15 • Linux lite (by Hank on 2022-08-15 09:04:33 GMT from Netherlands)
Er Lite at 1,621 MB of RAM upon booting up.
I am writing this and using 712M on a highly dressed up
antiX SysV installation with Latest NVidia Drivers installed and fox based tor browser to avoid some nastys..
Snap and buntu, trying to emulate apple and kill deb. No way I will use either the bloated buntu or crap
super bloat proprietry packaging they promote...
16 • WMs (by Devlin7 on 2022-08-15 09:09:43 GMT from New Zealand)
I like tinkering with Linux. I went through a phase of Windows managers, Ram usage was low but when I started adding items like start menus, notification areas etc the ram usage crept up and up to a point where there wasn;t a great deal of difference between WMs and a full DE. I settled on Enlightenment. 200Mb of RAM for a mighty fine looking, highly configurable desktop. The one side is the tiling is nowhere near as good. I have lots of keyboard shotcuts and two sets of configuration files where I can change my entire desktop instantly to suit my task. Enlightenment on Arch, just love it.
17 • window managers (by wonko the sane on 2022-08-15 09:22:40 GMT from Netherlands)
Having used ICEWM for the last 2 years plus I will not go back to others.
Ice is a stacking WM but can tile with simple keyboard commands or auto if set to do so, Looks are very much user preference, ICE is highly customizable. Lightweight, lightning fast, stable and under active
development, mainly adding functions to further improve the already outstanding user experience.
After using this setup XFCE feels laggy and offers nothing in the way of more comfort. Edit text files once, transfer to any other system is no pain, and I understand where my settings are and how to change them. Nothing hidden behind a flashy GUI.
18 • DEs (by krell on 2022-08-15 09:47:47 GMT from Thailand)
Why DE. Mate works super well, and NOTFIES ME if my plug is pulled out , or if I have a lack
of Disk Space. These are things for DEs not WMs. Shees any modern comp with 4GB or more
RAM wont notice any improvement with a plain X session running fvwm for example,
19 • I like QT and GTK apps but not GNOME and KDE (by lukve on 2022-08-15 12:45:54 GMT from Slovakia)
Hi to all linuxers, i love distrowatch i going here for inspiration :D
Look ! With each version of QT we have new rewrited KDE, devs allways rewrite GNome and so and so... question is why not use Fluxbox with QT aplications or some people like me love WindoeMaker witch is is still active developed https://repo.or.cz/w/wmaker-crm.git
i think its my subjective viewpoint but why not use windows manager with QT or GTK ecostytme, i am from this people who like QT aplications and from GNOME world i like GTK3 and i like CSD (client side decorations), too but i dont like GNOME, i think GNOME apps are super good but GNOME is horrible designed
20 • I run a window manager (by Tim on 2022-08-15 12:55:40 GMT from United States)
I've been using Awesome for the past two years and Openbox for several years prior to that. My main reason used to be performance, but now I have a very beefy system (12 CPU, 24 thread, 32 GB RAM), and I now simply prefer the Window Manager way of working.
21 • Poll (by Otis on 2022-08-15 13:28:51 GMT from United States)
I did the WM thing for a while back when hard drives were dinky and so was RAM and so was CPU
speeds. IceWM was tops then, but I still messed with Fluxbox etc.
I always found myself attempting to mimic the Windows interface, with a taskbar and menu and all
the responsive stuff we saw in Windows 95 as I tweaked the WM as best I could.
Then it appeared that developers were doing the same thing and we began to seem KDE and all the rest as time went by. Like it or not that's what they were doing; trying to draw Windows users in
with look alike WMs and DEs. I mean, the very idea of a "window." Think about it.
22 • Linux Lite memory (by Jesse on 2022-08-15 13:45:25 GMT from Canada)
@7 (and others): "I'm sure this is a typo or maybe a misunderstood "used" memory value"
I haven't confirmed this with Ivan, but looking at the notes and screenshots he submitted, I think 1.6GB is accurate. Keep in mind, Ivan wasn't just running Linux Lite with the Xfce desktop, he's also running it on ZFS with encryption and arc enabled. This would easily put the total memory usage over 1,000MB.
Without ZFS, arc, etc the system would probably use in the range of 500-600MB (based on my tests), but with them in use (as the review details) 1.6GB is within expected levels.
23 • Memory (by Ivan on 2022-08-15 14:07:38 GMT from Germany)
@Jesse and others
I've noticed that with fill disk encryption, adding a call to auto load another encrypted disk, and with the NVIDIA drivers, it does use more RAM than normal. However, this is how I set up my machine, so your mileage my vary.
24 • Reasons to run a plain window manager (by Livio on 2022-08-15 14:10:13 GMT from Italy)
I now use KDE Plasma. In the past, I used LXDE because it is fast, intuitive and not resource-hungry. I abandoned it out of laziness, to have everything already installed; even though, under LXDE, 'alien software' like Gparted, Okular, Evolution, Libreoffice, Marble, Gimp, K3b, Xfburn... ran faster than on the original desktops. Only problem was 'monitor tearing' on Youtube videos.
25 • Window Manager (by pat on 2022-08-15 14:10:16 GMT from United States)
I recently found a great Debian distro with a window manager named "Lilidog". I have it on a very old laptop and I like it better than the other comparable distros. It has some innovative features and comes in 32 and 64 bit. A very nice offering and it might be landing here on DW hopefully. You sold me on LinuxLite so I will give it a spin soon on another old machine. Have a great day...
26 • Fluxbox, Baby... (by Trihexagonal on 2022-08-15 17:45:35 GMT from United States)
I started using Fluxbox 10-12 years ago to conserve resources on a low end machine. I've continued to use it because of the bare-bones simplicity and customization of my desktop.
I liked the way Jessie put it and had never thought of it that way, but by the time I'm done I have my own custom DE to suit my work style and flow.
To supplement Fluxbox I install rxvt-unicode for a terminal emulator, Xfe for a File Manager, gKrellm2 for meters and Leafpad for a text editor.
Those programs alone would be enough for the work I do. and constitute a DE for me I have rxvt and Xfe open on boot in place where I leave the from boot to reboot and shaded when not in use for easy access. gKllm2 opens at boot with them and I size my windows to always keep it in view.
After that I install a set number of programs I've found over time to suit my taste and meet my needs in a general purpose desktop. Audacious, Audacity,Asunder, tkdvd, VLC, Gimp, Firefox-ESR, etc.
While my desktops aren't everyone's cup of tea, I my screenshots are easy to spot due the the configuration. I make all my own wallpapers, use the same configuration on FreeBSD and Kali Linux and if I didn't have something showing which OS it was you would have a hard time telling one from another
27 • Rescuezilla 2.4 is buggy (by Mozzi on 2022-08-15 17:53:47 GMT from France)
If -like me - you've wanted to try Rescuezilla 2.4 you may have noticed it has issues or was not operational.
28 • Rescuezilla 2.4 is buggy (by Mozzi on 2022-08-15 17:55:06 GMT from France)
So you must wait for the coming 2.4.1 version
29 • Encryption (by Morgan on 2022-08-15 18:29:06 GMT from United States)
Using encryption for system or boot partitions (or the only partition) is a silly way to slow down the boot process.
30 • #26 Xfe & gkrellm (by tomaso on 2022-08-16 00:29:32 GMT from United States)
"...Xfe for a File Manager, gKrellm2 for meters..."
I use MATE, mostly. However in experiments with light weight releases, I have found that XFE adds back features I like but without all the dependencies of Caja.
I also liked gkrellm (with gkrelltop plugin) so much that it has become part of every installation on every PC in the house.
-
Linux Lite has been around for many years. I think it offers 5 years of support while Xubuntu offers only 3 years. (or something like that) Makes sense to offer Windows escapees something that they prefer - long support life.
31 • @29 (by MeSparkleWonder on 2022-08-16 00:55:42 GMT from Mexico)
Nobody deliberately wants to slow down their system, but encryption is important for privacy, so the rrade off is worth it.
32 • @29 Encrypt (by Private First Class on 2022-08-16 15:40:07 GMT from United States)
Good point!
@31 Privacy is a myth. As soon as you open the front door, you have given up on privacy.
33 • Poll (by Robert on 2022-08-16 16:16:49 GMT from United States)
I run Wayfire with a few bits to make a minimal desktop. Reasoning:
1 - I want Wayland
2- KDE is too buggy
3 - I really don't like Gnome or Sway.
Not much else to choose from that I'm aware of.
34 • @31 (by Morgan on 2022-08-16 17:48:09 GMT from Austria)
The encryption of user data is important for privacy, of course, but encryption of application and OS files is almost pointless because they usually don't contain sensitive information. Verification of digital signatures is needed for system binaries but I don't see it common GNU/Linux distributions (but it's now standard on Android).
35 • poll (by Jay on 2022-08-16 20:28:27 GMT from Slovenia)
I've run WMs-only since Blackbox and would never consider a desktop environment (especially a non-tiling one) for a primary machine. I spend 95-98% of my time in i3 and the remainder in Fluxbox (for weekend maintenance tasks).
Unlike most DEs, WMs (especially tilers) make everything fast and simple. I start with Arch, Parrot Architect, or a server distro and add a dozen or so apps rather than waste time deleting everything I don't need.
My needs are a file manager, several terminals, text editor, several web browsers, RPN calculator, and a document viewer. Anything else (like a custom Conky for Fluxbox) is nice but optional.
36 • Poll (by linuxgeex on 2022-08-17 08:04:04 GMT from Canada)
I use a plain window manager because it's way more responsive when I need to access my system remotely, esp over high-latency foreign wireless networks.
All that animated garbage just slows things down, same with icons on the desktop. And it doesn't just slow down the remote access. You're waiting for it regardless. It's just training you to "like" waiting. Blech.
However I do run Compton, again because it reduces the number of screen draws, which makes remote access more responsive. It also reduces flicker in some circumstances. Needless to say I don't have transparency, shadows, or animation enabled.
37 • PekWM (by DarrenG on 2022-08-17 12:13:19 GMT from Australia)
I confess I use a wm when a desktop -- usually MATE -- proves too sluggish on some bit of older/smaller/cheaper hardware. My preferred lighter option these days is PekWM because it's very easy to config and control (and use), but still quite light. for me it's the 80:20 point.
38 • @32 Privacy (by MrSparkleWonder on 2022-08-17 15:23:52 GMT from Mexico)
It's fine, if you don't want to encrypt, don't, have all your data open and accessible to everyone, but to say that "privacy is a myth" just shows your astonishing level of ignorance and stupidity on the matter.
I won't even bother replying further as there is not point in wasting my time.
39 • Encryption - Security/Privacy (by Otis on 2022-08-17 16:42:49 GMT from United States)
@29 @32 @38 etc ... how many here using Linux or BSD have had their Linux or BSD machine(s)
exploited in any way because there was no drive or boot encryption?
40 • Privacy (by Friar Tux on 2022-08-17 16:55:44 GMT from Canada)
@38 MrSparkleWonder, actually @32 is correct. Privacy IS a myth. While passwords, codes, and encryption will keep out, maybe, 90% of folks, it is still hackable. I do not keep anything on my laptop that is personal and/or private. (Had a few close calls.) I also keep a flashdrive with disc tools to totally/securely wipe and reinstall my stuff - just in case. With Linux, it is far easier/quicker to just redo the drive if anything goes bad than to try and find the issue/malware/hack. (Not even curiosity will get me to poke around a hacked/sacked computer.)
41 • PekWM, remote access (by Jay on 2022-08-17 17:16:14 GMT from Slovenia)
@37 I use Pek on my guest account. PekWM is a 'Goldilocks zone' UI choice; even OpenBox can be an obstacle for young children.
Were you a microWattOS user too, Darren?
@36 Consider using the NX protocol (rather than VNC, etc) if remote desktop access speed is an important factor. It only works on Unix-ish systems, but I've found it significantly faster than anything else.
42 • Privacy (by Morgan on 2022-08-17 18:26:02 GMT from Luxembourg)
Why 90%? Maybe 99,9999%? Do you avoid keeping anything personal/private at home because your house is not a NSA HQ level fortress? Disk encryption is essentially bulletproof until quantum computing is practical. Free Software and following the usual recommended security practices are sufficient for protection of data on networked computers for almost everyone. Threat models should be realistic, privacy is NOT a myth.
43 • @40 (by Morgan on 2022-08-17 18:28:12 GMT from Luxembourg)
My previous post is an answer to @40.
44 • Spyware in Linux distributions (by Goetz on 2022-08-18 08:22:36 GMT from Germany)
On August 16th there was news (https://distrowatch.com/?newsid=11614) on Deepin, a distribution from China.
I don't think that an average user looks for spyware in distributions. So I am reluctant to use a chinese distribution. Am I too paranoiac? There can be spyware in any distribution from any place.
45 • RAM consumption (by Leon on 2022-08-18 09:22:48 GMT from France)
As of RAM, resources usage, WM vs. DE's ... it's safe to say that, if you need WM, then you need a new PC. ;)
Either you use a PC for work, or you are just toying around. The times of WMs are long gone. And also, most people talking about RAM, either doesn't understand much about it and can't do the math, or they deliberately ignore the facts.
First, the use case.
If you need a computer for work, you can't really do much without 8 ~ 16 GB RAM. It doesn't help much if you can start that Pentium 3 with 128 MB RAM, as it will be swapping even if you try to open the text editor and write "Yeah! It works!".
I have a 1.3 MB PNG, which, when open in Gimp, consumes 3.1 GB. If I open the original file with all layers, it consumes around 15.5 GB. That's of course application memory consumption, which is swapping, proxifying and such, and that's why the actual PC RAM consumption in such case is approx. the half of those 3.1 / 15.5. However, it's also easy to see, that one won't come far with some ancient machine and 256 / 512 MB, or 1 / 2 GB RAM. And that was only one open image, not a dozen, and it was only one single application, and not a half dozen plus a web browser with few dozens of open tabs.
Second, the myth of "heavy Gnome4" and "light" Mate, BrokenFaceX (=== Xfce) and such ...
Example Mate:
Classic session: gnome-shell uses 272 MB RAM, Xwayland 53 and the gnome-session 37 MB. Panel, indicators etc. all-inclusive. Now, how about Mate? Xorg needs 118 MB RAM, caja 84, mate-panel 67, mate-terminal 64, nm-applet 59, marco 57, mate-volume-control 56, mate-power-manager 53, mate-settings-daemon 52, mate-screensaver 40, matte-session 32 MB RAM. Now, even if you kill half of those processes, it's still hardly any lighter, as each and every panel and indicator is a separate process and adds up, and that's what most people don't take into account when discussing the "lighter". The same goes for Xfce.
Yes, in total, Mate might consume less RAM, but because of it's lack of sophisticated features. What do you get when you type "gedit" on the desktop, in your Fedora 36 Workstation, and in your Fedora 36 Mate? The first will show you that you can install gedit through Software, and the second one? Doesn't even have a search. ;)
Third, the look and feel.
Mate looks inferior compared to Classic session and is less functional. Xfce not only looks inferior, but is even utterly broken. Just look out there and try to find only one good-looking Xfce distri, and you'll find out that there is (to my knowledge) exactly one -- Zorin Lite -- and even that one looks good only as long, as you don't try to resize the panel / taskbar for a couple of pixels. One pixel, and Xfce falls apart.
Forth, the reason why people have computers ...
Install it and start working -- without a need for pimping and customizing -- replace the wallpaper and start working with that beautiful, shiny, new GUI is possible only without KDE, Mate, Xfce, or some ancient WM's. Install Fedora 36 Workstation or Ubuntu 22.04, and you can start working instantly. No reconfiguring or adding or removing of some extensions is necessary -- it just works. If it doesn't, then it's you, not your GUI.
So yeah, if all you do is trying to revive that ole Pentium 2, then installing some server with TWM might help, but if you need something to work with, then TWM won't save your day.
46 • Encrypting (by Sato on 2022-08-18 10:08:17 GMT from Japan)
While encryption might be helpful on few very rare occasions, it's useless in most of the cases, and if encryption, then data partition and USB encryption, but never full disk. BIOS password will protect someone from starting the machine in most cases. Full hard disk encryption just slows down the machine, but still doesn't give any additional protection during the work - good malware (e.g., "state trojan") will record your keyboard strokes and make screenshots of the unencrypted files you read (as example) -- you can't read encrypted docs without decryption.
Generally, encryption makes sense only on smartphones or on a laptop, and on laptops, only in some very rare cases, like, if you are a scientist working on some top secret project, or a journalist working on an article of the century, but it is completely pointless for most of the people, especially if they do it on their own, home desktop PCs. What's there to encrypt at home? MP3's, filled tax bill forms or letters to your doctor or a lawyer?
Maybe worth encrypting if you make some plans for the next LA/NY attack, but even then, only maybe, as if some secret service or some really nasty guys already know about you and your computer, they will have their ways to persuade you to happily encrypt all of your data for them - all on your own. ;)
47 • @46 (re the alleged uselessness of encryption) (by Simon on 2022-08-18 10:42:26 GMT from New Zealand)
A laptop is more likely to be lost or stolen than hacked, and a home desktop also can be stolen... and, if the user has been foolish enough not to encrypt its contents, the thieves now have everything on the disk... personal documents, email, photos... it's all theirs to explore and exploit. To claim that BIOS passwords offer protection is nonsense: it's trivially easy to remove the disks and attach them to another machine, giving full access.
This is particularly true for the many who use email clients (Thunderbird, Outlook on Windows, and so on) rather than web mail portals. Even if you don't have the good sense to protect your own privacy, it shows contempt for the privacy of others to allow all the emails and photos they've sent to you, in the belief that only you would see them, now to be enjoyed by thieves, and potentially published on the Internet and so on. Unless you do everything in the cloud, you should (of course, as everyone knows) encrypt your data.
48 • Who can read ... (by Sato on 2022-08-18 11:19:28 GMT from Japan)
@47 (by Simon)
Maybe you should go back and carefully read my post again.
"A laptop is more likely to be lost or stolen than hacked, and a home desktop also can be stolen... and, if the user has been foolish enough not to encrypt its contents ..."
"... it's useless in most of the cases, and if encryption, then data partition and USB encryption ... Generally, encryption makes sense only on smartphones or on a laptop ..."
Smartphones and laptops exactly because of "more likely to be lost or stolen", but laptops rarely, as most people I know off, never really carry them around, but use laptop basically at home, as a desktop replacement.
Data partition encryption because it protects the data, but doesn't slow the computer as much.
Close the lid and put it back in the drawer when you don't need it. The most part is done on the Smartphone anyway.
49 • Chinese distribution (by Parandroid on 2022-08-18 11:25:46 GMT from Netherlands)
@44 (by Goetz from Germany)
You seem to be a bit of 'confused', for sure.
I don't know which 'secrets' do you have to hide, but there are some facts.
If we carefully follow the news and the proven facts, then it is US and Europe which are greater danger.
It is "Five Eyes" and EU which a building in spyware in your software and OS, and it's US HW companies building in spyware in their HW. It's US CPU companies (with some Swiss help), who manipulate the 'random number generator', so they already know the first half of the keys, without a need to crack it.
On the other side, there is no proof that China or Russia etc. also do it. Not that it would surprise me if they did it, but there is no proof yet. Just like in politics. It is US and their allies constantly causing the wars one after another; it isn't China, Iran or North Korea ...
Speaking about Astra, Deepin and Co., the source code is in Debian repositories.
Depending on your 'secret', much bigger danger poises if your own country is spying on you (which they do), then if someone somewhere in China or North Korea knows 'your secrets'. Probably all places where you won't go ever even as a tourist, neither will they share the data with friendly countries: "Five Eyes" and the EU.
For the end, one shouldn't forget the difference between spying and 'spying' on you. The first one you can't avoid, but you can be 101 % sure that nobody will ever even try -- you're not worth it. The second one is 'spying' in a sense of collecting all data that can be collected and feed some DB, to help earning more on advertising. That's what makes 99.999+ % of 'spying on you', and it's basically irrelevant part.
Bigger concern for you should probably be the fact that you are using Linux at all, as Linux is unsecure by its concept. If there is a web browser update, I have the latest Chrome or Firefox update in a matter of minutes, but in Linux, it can take days or weeks, or sometimes even months before you get one -- if you get it at all (Astra Linux, I'm talking about you).
50 • Privacy (by dragonmouth on 2022-08-18 12:37:51 GMT from United States)
@38 MrSparkleWonder:
Privacy is an illusion.
Have ever done an Internet search on your name/handle? The Internet knows more about you than you know about yourself. There are literally thousands of entities that have and collect your personal data and you gave that data to them willingly.
Just a couple of examples:
In spite of HIPAA, your medical records are easily available from hospital databases and there is absolutely NOTHING you can do to prevent those records from being accessed and disseminated.
Credit agencies, such as Equifax, have a record of all your financial transactions which they collect from banks, credit companies, stores, your employers, the government. You, and the rest of us, don't know exactly what data is collected and/or when. Even if we did, again, there is absolutely NOTHING we can do to prevent the harvesting.
Phone companies track you through your smartphone. Municipalities track you with their traffic cameras. etc. etc. etc.
Encrypting your disk makes you feel warm and fuzzy and secure but it doesn't really matter because most, if not all, all that data is already out on the 'Net.
51 • Privacy (by Otis on 2022-08-18 13:07:24 GMT from United States)
@50 Nonsense. Hyperbolic nonsense. Search all you want to search. Your medical records are
not "on the internet." They can be hacked en masse as to deny of access and the gateways to
them can be blocked for ransom, but no, your medical records are not "on the internet." And no,
the internet does not "know more about you than you do."
52 • ZFS, Encryption, Privacy... (by Vukota on 2022-08-18 16:40:21 GMT from Serbia)
@38 is correct. Take a simple case of storing SSN, bank account, CC numbers and other data on your laptop and that is enough if someone steals your computer for you to have huge financial consequences if your hard drive is not encrypted.
But everyone here is missing few important things about ZFS on latest Ubuntu based distros.
1) ZFS's encryption is extremely fast and cheap on modern hardware that it is hard you'll notice it with normal workloads.
2) With ZFS you don't have to have two separate layers (file system and encryption layer)
3) ZFS offers fast compression with encryption which can save you from upgrading your hard drive
Related to the memory usage (Jessie noticed in the comment), it is true that ZFS is consuming more RAM, but that consumption is useful to speed up disk access by using more intelligent disk caching strategy (than other FSs). So in a way, if you have computer with low amount of RAM (less than 12GB), I advise you to stay away from ZFS. If you have low disk space (for storing snapshots), I advise you to stay away from ZFS (or BTRFS) as well.
53 • @36 (by Justin on 2022-08-18 17:40:55 GMT from United States)
@36 I never considered this scenario. I was swinging the other way that maybe it's no longer worth the effort to maintain my Openbox/JWM setups over something like KDE if I have the required CPU and RAM. Remote access or VNC seems like a legitimate use case. If that is ever my case, I'll keep this all in mind.
54 • @49 "Proven facts" (by Morgan on 2022-08-18 20:27:54 GMT from Switzerland)
Do you have a proof that Intel or AMD HW RNG (rdrand?) is backdoored? And if it is, Linux uses it safely, so it just adds 0 bits of _additional_ entropy. "They" don't "know the first half of the keys".
China and Russia spy on their citizens a lot, and I wouldn't trust a distribution from these countries unless it provides reproducible builds for all packages, and the amount of their own packages and patches is small enough to be auditable, AND there is an independent entity actually DOING the audit. Of course, the same lack of trust somewhat applies to Western distributions too, but because they are more popular there are more eyes looking at their source code.
55 • spythreats (by elearner on 2022-08-18 23:57:31 GMT from Canada)
Spying by Govs, agencies like NSA, 5 eyes, military, police, etc is likely to be done on ppl who are a threat to national security - like terrorists.
Other gov sections and companies are unlikely to spy on ppl, like municipalities, public transport, hospitals, telecoms, etc. but instead have digital processes, facilities, and records that can be hacked and tracked.
That leaves - the insider threat. The biggest danger of being spied on comes from someone who works in or has friends in, the tech industry. Because they are the ones who do work for the above gov agencies and companies. So they know all the default passwords of security cameras, computers, and other equipment, all the backdoor entries, all the zero day faults, etc. Look at Edward Snowden; he was a tech consultant for the NSA who knew all their secrets. He could have used that info to become an evil hacker - as some undoubtedly do, but instead he went public with the info. So beware the sensitive neighborhood hoody-wearing nerd who lives in their basement - if you get on their wrong side they can make your life hell. And you won't be able to patch things up, because they'll be having too much fun hacking, spying, and making money from selling your data.
56 • @55, spythreats (by Dr. Hu on 2022-08-19 01:09:16 GMT from Philippines)
"So beware the sensitive neighborhood hoody-wearing nerd who lives in their basement - if you get on their wrong side they can make your life hell." You do know "Mr. Robot is fiction?"
57 • Privacy or Security? (by Dr. Hu on 2022-08-19 01:42:00 GMT from Philippines)
Since Edward Snowden has been mentioned (@55) it may be good to remember that he got most of his access by simply asking people for their passwords under some pretext. Don't know how competent a hacker he is. Entry to systems is most often gained by phishing or its newer variations, where access is granted by clueless people who believe they are dealing with someone with authority. Then the hacking begins.
For security, the first line of defense is common sense. If your computer is at risk to be stolen and you keep information that might compromise your finances, that you would not want to see published on the net, or that might land you in jail or hot water, by all means encrypt your home and any other partitions where the info exists. If all you have is harmless, then a simple a[password at boot might do.
If you are a common home user, the likelihood of there being people trying to access your system is close to nil. If your actions might raise a government's attention, what you are lacking is anonymity. Maybe time to get a lawyer or get out of Dodge.
For online, hundred-character-long passwords are not needed for systems which resist brute force, such as most banks. After a few tries, you are locked out. Your bank password would most probably be obtained with an email to a bored, careless employee. Nothing you can do about that.
58 • arguments about privacy etc (by dave on 2022-08-19 05:49:21 GMT from United States)
@51 Based on the mainstream narrative of how the internet works, the truth is somewhere in the middle.. the internet in general might not 'know more about you than you know about yourself' but there are definitely systems that know certain things about us that we don't realize about ourselves. Behavior patterns are funny that way. Most of us are not conscious of those patterns, but predictive systems used by something such as YouTube definitely 'know' things about our thought & life patterns / behavior, beliefs, strengths, weaknesses, insecurities, etc.. Of course, this is hopefully limited to how much information we feed to the Beast. Stay off the internet completely and all you'll find are public records information. Use the internet extensively and your 'footprint' reflects that and with it comes all the juicy analytics, etc. Some people are open books and share way too much personal info, so it depends on the person.
@55 the broad scope of Nat'l Security has placed everyone in to the list of possible threats. Canada admitted to spying on something like 1/3 of the cellular devices in the entire country. And that's just what they admitted to doing. Just imagine what the post-9/11 fearmongering US gov't is probably legally capable of doing. Nowadays, the definition of 'terrorism' has been distorted so far that virtually anyone can be accused of being a potential terrorist. With all the back doors and other BS built in to modern devices, it's reasonable to assume that everyone is 'prehacked' and actively under some form of surveillance. After all, the internet is basically a giant military spy/killgrid.
59 • Proven facts (by Parandroid on 2022-08-19 08:15:21 GMT from Netherlands)
@54 (by Morgan from Switzerland)
On one side, we have 'it's proven', and on the other, we have your "I wouldn't trust" (dis) belief.
It's proven that US processors have backdoors, that the US OS have backdoors, that the US HW has backdoors, and it's proven that Linux / BSD are generally not more secure.
I don't have every link on security issues, because I'm more concerned about how the random number generator affects my game, but here are some links on the topic:
https://gofile.io/d/tCl0Xr
Simply regularly read Bruce Schneier website, Kuketz IT-Security Blog, Heise ... all that was already mentioned there.
However, the most relevant can be said in a couple of sentences:
"Every modern processor made by Intel contains a backdoor known as the Intel Management Engine (IME). ... All post-2013 AMD chips contain a Platform Security Processor (PSP). Implementation of this is very different from that of Intel’s IME, but it does a very similar thing."
"Dual Elliptic Curve, or Dual_EC_DRBG, came under criticism after it became known that the algorithm developed by the NSA secret service contained a back door. This can be exploited to significantly affect the resulting numbers. This makes it possible to attack software that uses these random numbers – which are not as random as expected – as the basis for its crypto processes."
"Not enough randomness in OpenBSD's random number generator; Twenty-year-old leak in Lempel-Ziv compression puts Linux users at risk; 10-year-old critical vulnerability discovered in Linux kernel crypto function; etc."
"While it is quite possible that the Chinese build surveillance mechanisms into their network technology, the USA certainly does ..."
Proven facts.
60 • @59 facts (by Morgan on 2022-08-19 19:49:15 GMT from Austria)
Dual_EC_DRBG is irrelevant, it is not used nowadays and was not widely used in the past.
IME is not in the processor but in Intel chipsets. IME and PSP are generally not exploitable remotely unless AMT or DMTF have been provisioned.
So you don't have a proof that currently used hardware random generators are backdoored and you don't have a proof that unprovisioned or disabled IME on current chipsets can be acessed remotely.
Chinese CPUs are mostly ARM with TrustZone enabled, and TrustZone "secure world" OS is similar in function to IME and PSP, i.e. it is a privileged "platform security" blob.
61 • Talking of Conky @35 (by MXgogo on 2022-08-20 07:58:16 GMT from South Africa)
Although firmly based on MXLinux I've recently started using AVLinux which is currently based on MX. However it offers a (pretty standard) Conky., and a few other distroes that I use from time to time (eg BunsenLabs,) do too.
Which is fine, but on none of them does the Conky clock show the time in 24-hour format. And I can't figure out what needs to be changed in the Conky configuration file.
Any helpful comments?
Number of Comments: 61
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TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite
Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
Learn more about our full service package and all benefits from buying at TUXEDO.
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| Archives |
| • Issue 1168 (2026-04-13): pearOS 2026.03, EndeavourOS 2026.03.06, which distros are adopting age verification, Arch adjusts its firewall packages, Linux dropping i486 support, Red Hat extends its release cycle, Debian's APT introduces rollbacks, Redox improves its scheduler |
| • Issue 1167 (2026-04-06): Origami Linux 2026.03, answering questions for Linux newcomers, Ubuntu MATE seeking new contributors, Ubuntu software centre is expanding Deb support, FreeBSD fixes forum exploit, openSUSE 15 Leap nears its end of life |
| • Issue 1166 (2026-03-30): NetBSD jails, publishing software for Linux, Ubuntu joins Rust Foundation, Canonical plans to trim GRUB features, Peppermint works on new utilities, PINE64 shows off open hardware capabilities |
| • Issue 1165 (2026-03-23): Argent Linux 1.5.3, disk space required by Linux, Manjaro team goes on strike, AlmaLinux improves NVIDIA driver support and builds RISC-V packages, systemd introduces age tracking |
| • Issue 1164 (2026-03-16): d77void, age verification laws and Linux, SUSE may be for sale, TrueNAS takes its build system private, Debian publishes updated Trixie media, MidnightBSD and System76 respond to age verification laws |
| • Issue 1163 (2026-03-09): KaOS 2026.02, TinyCore 17.0, NuTyX 26.02.2, Would one big collection of packages help?, Guix offers 64-bit Hurd options, Linux communities discuss age delcaration laws, Mint unveils new screensaver for Cinnamon, Redox ports new COSMIC features |
| • Issue 1162 (2026-03-02): AerynOS 2026.01, anti-virus and firewall tools, Manjaro fixes website certificate, Ubuntu splits firmware package, jails for NetBSD, extended support for some Linux kernel releases, Murena creating a map app |
| • Issue 1161 (2026-02-23): The Guix package manager, quick Q&As, Gentoo migrating its mirrors, Fedora considers more informative kernel panic screens, GhostBSD testing alternative X11 implementation, Asahi makes progress with Apple M3, NetBSD userland ported, FreeBSD improves web-based system management |
| • Issue 1160 (2026-02-16): Noid and AgarimOS, command line tips, KDE Linux introduces delta updates, Redox OS hits development milestone, Linux Mint develops a desktop-neutral account manager, sudo developer seeks sponsorship |
| • Issue 1159 (2026-02-09): Sharing files on a network, isolating processes on Linux, LFS to focus on systemd, openSUSE polishes atomic updates, NetBSD not likely to adopt Rust code, COSMIC roadmap |
| • Issue 1158 (2026-02-02): Manjaro 26.0, fastest filesystem, postmarketOS progress report, Xfce begins developing its own Wayland window manager, Bazzite founder interviewed |
| • Issue 1157 (2026-01-26): Setting up a home server, what happened to convergence, malicious software entering the Snap store, postmarketOS automates hardware tests, KDE's login manager works with systemd only |
| • Issue 1156 (2026-01-19): Chimera Linux's new installer, using the DistroWatch Torrent Corner, new package tools for Arch, Haiku improves EFI support, Redcore streamlines branches, Synex introduces install-time ZFS options |
| • Issue 1155 (2026-01-12): MenuetOS, CDE on Sparky, iDeal OS 2025.12.07, recommended flavour of BSD, Debian seeks new Data Protection Team, Ubuntu 25.04 nears its end of life, Google limits Android source code releases, Fedora plans to replace SDDM, Budgie migrates to Wayland |
| • Issue 1154 (2026-01-05): postmarketOS 25.06/25.12, switching to Linux and educational resources, FreeBSD improving laptop support, Unix v4 available for download, new X11 server in development, CachyOS team plans server edtion |
| • Issue 1153 (2025-12-22): Best projects of 2025, is software ever truly finished?, Firefox to adopt AI components, Asahi works on improving the install experience, Mageia presents plans for version 10 |
| • Issue 1152 (2025-12-15): OpenBSD 7.8, filtering websites, Jolla working on a Linux phone, Germany saves money with Linux, Ubuntu to package AMD tools, Fedora demonstrates AI troubleshooting, Haiku packages Go language |
| • Issue 1151 (2025-12-08): FreeBSD 15.0, fun command line tricks, Canonical presents plans for Ubutnu 26.04, SparkyLinux updates CDE packages, Redox OS gets modesetting driver |
| • Issue 1150 (2025-12-01): Gnoppix 25_10, exploring if distributions matter, openSUSE updates tumbleweed's boot loader, Fedora plans better handling of broken packages, Plasma to become Wayland-only, FreeBSD publishes status report |
| • Issue 1149 (2025-11-24): MX Linux 25, why are video drivers special, systemd experiments with musl, Debian Libre Live publishes new media, Xubuntu reviews website hack |
| • Issue 1148 (2025-11-17): Zorin OS 18, deleting a file with an unusual name, NetBSD experiments with sandboxing, postmarketOS unifies its documentation, OpenBSD refines upgrades, Canonical offers 15 years of support for Ubuntu |
| • Issue 1147 (2025-11-10): Fedora 43, the size and stability of the Linux kernel, Debian introducing Rust to APT, Redox ports web engine, Kubuntu website off-line, Mint creates new troubleshooting tools, FreeBSD improves reproducible builds, Flatpak development resumes |
| • Issue 1146 (2025-11-03): StartOS 0.4.0, testing piped commands, Ubuntu Unity seeks help, Canonical offers Ubuntu credentials, Red Hat partners with NVIDIA, SUSE to bundle AI agent with SLE 16 |
| • Issue 1145 (2025-10-27): Linux Mint 7 "LMDE", advice for new Linux users, AlmaLinux to offer Btrfs, KDE launches Plasma 6.5, Fedora accepts contributions written by AI, Ubuntu 25.10 fails to install automatic updates |
| • Issue 1144 (2025-10-20): Kubuntu 25.10, creating and restoring encrypted backups, Fedora team debates AI, FSF plans free software for phones, ReactOS addresses newer drivers, Xubuntu reacts to website attack |
| • Issue 1143 (2025-10-13): openSUSE 16.0 Leap, safest source for new applications, Redox introduces performance improvements, TrueNAS Connect available for testing, Flatpaks do not work on Ubuntu 25.10, Kamarada plans to switch its base, Solus enters new epoch, Frugalware discontinued |
| • Issue 1142 (2025-10-06): Linux Kamarada 15.6, managing ZIP files with SQLite, F-Droid warns of impact of Android lockdown, Alpine moves ahead with merged /usr, Cinnamon gets a redesigned application menu |
| • Issue 1141 (2025-09-29): KDE Linux and GNOME OS, finding mobile flavours of Linux, Murena to offer phones with kill switches, Redox OS running on a smartphone, Artix drops GNOME |
| • Issue 1140 (2025-09-22): NetBSD 10.1, avoiding AI services, AlmaLinux enables CRB repository, Haiku improves disk access performance, Mageia addresses service outage, GNOME 49 released, Linux introduces multikernel support |
| • Issue 1139 (2025-09-15): EasyOS 7.0, Linux and central authority, FreeBSD running Plasma 6 on Wayland, GNOME restores X11 support temporarily, openSUSE dropping BCacheFS in new kernels |
| • Issue 1138 (2025-09-08): Shebang 25.8, LibreELEC 12.2.0, Debian GNU/Hurd 2025, the importance of software updates, AerynOS introduces package sets, postmarketOS encourages patching upstream, openSUSE extends Leap support, Debian refreshes Trixie media |
| • Issue 1137 (2025-09-01): Tribblix 0m37, malware scanners flagging Linux ISO files, KDE introduces first-run setup wizard, CalyxOS plans update prior to infrastructure overhaul, FreeBSD publishes status report |
| • Issue 1136 (2025-08-25): CalyxOS 6.8.20, distros for running containers, Arch Linux website under attack,illumos Cafe launched, CachyOS creates web dashboard for repositories |
| • Issue 1135 (2025-08-18): Debian 13, Proton, WINE, Wayland, and Wayback, Debian GNU/Hurd 2025, KDE gets advanced Liquid Glass, Haiku improves authentication tools |
| • Issue 1134 (2025-08-11): Rhino Linux 2025.3, thoughts on malware in the AUR, Fedora brings hammered websites back on-line, NetBSD reveals features for version 11, Ubuntu swaps some command line tools for 25.10, AlmaLinux improves NVIDIA support |
| • Issue 1133 (2025-08-04): Expirion Linux 6.0, running Plasma on Linux Mint, finding distros which support X11, Debian addresses 22 year old bug, FreeBSD discusses potential issues with pkgbase, CDE ported to OpenBSD, Btrfs corruption bug hitting Fedora users, more malware found in Arch User Repository |
| • Issue 1132 (2025-07-28): deepin 25, wars in the open source community, proposal to have Fedora enable Flathub repository, FreeBSD plans desktop install option, Wayback gets its first release |
| • Issue 1131 (2025-07-21): HeliumOS 10.0, settling on one distro, Mint plans new releases, Arch discovers malware in AUR, Plasma Bigscreen returns, Clear Linux discontinued |
| • Issue 1130 (2025-07-14): openSUSE MicroOS and RefreshOS, sharing aliases between computers, Bazzite makes Bazaar its default Flatpak store, Alpine plans Wayback release, Wayland and X11 benchmarked, Red Hat offers additional developer licenses, openSUSE seeks feedback from ARM users, Ubuntu 24.10 reaches the end of its life |
| • Issue 1129 (2025-07-07): GLF OS Omnislash, the worst Linux distro, Alpine introduces Wayback, Fedora drops plans to stop i686 support, AlmaLinux builds EPEL repository for older CPUs, Ubuntu dropping existing RISC-V device support, Rhino partners with UBports, PCLinuxOS recovering from website outage |
| • Issue 1128 (2025-06-30): AxOS 25.06, AlmaLinux OS 10.0, transferring Flaptak bundles to off-line computers, Ubuntu to boost Intel graphics performance, Fedora considers dropping i686 packages, SDesk switches from SELinux to AppArmor |
| • Issue 1127 (2025-06-23): LastOSLinux 2025-05-25, most unique Linux distro, Haiku stabilises, KDE publishes Plasma 6.4, Arch splits Plasma packages, Slackware infrastructure migrating |
| • Issue 1126 (2025-06-16): SDesk 2025.05.06, renewed interest in Ubuntu Touch, a BASIC device running NetBSD, Ubuntu dropping X11 GNOME session, GNOME increases dependency on systemd, Google holding back Pixel source code, Nitrux changing its desktop, EFF turns 35 |
| • Issue 1125 (2025-06-09): RHEL 10, distributions likely to survive a decade, Murena partners with more hardware makers, GNOME tests its own distro on real hardware, Redox ports GTK and X11, Mint provides fingerprint authentication |
| • Issue 1124 (2025-06-02): Picking up a Pico, tips for protecting privacy, Rhino tests Plasma desktop, Arch installer supports snapshots, new features from UBports, Ubuntu tests monthly snapshots |
| • Issue 1123 (2025-05-26): CRUX 3.8, preventing a laptop from sleeping, FreeBSD improves laptop support, Fedora confirms GNOME X11 session being dropped, HardenedBSD introduces Rust in userland build, KDE developing a virtual machine manager |
| • Issue 1122 (2025-05-19): GoboLinux 017.01, RHEL 10.0 and Debian 12 updates, openSUSE retires YaST, running X11 apps on Wayland |
| • Issue 1121 (2025-05-12): Bluefin 41, custom file manager actions, openSUSE joins End of 10 while dropping Deepin desktop, Fedora offers tips for building atomic distros, Ubuntu considers replacing sudo with sudo-rs |
| • Issue 1120 (2025-05-05): CachyOS 250330, what it means when a distro breaks, Kali updates repository key, Trinity receives an update, UBports tests directory encryption, Gentoo faces losing key infrastructure |
| • Issue 1119 (2025-04-28): Ubuntu MATE 25.04, what is missing from Linux, CachyOS ships OCCT, Debian enters soft freeze, Fedora discusses removing X11 session from GNOME, Murena plans business services, NetBSD on a Wii |
| • Issue 1118 (2025-04-21): Fedora 42, strange characters in Vim, Nitrux introduces new package tools, Fedora extends reproducibility efforts, PINE64 updates multiple devices running Debian |
| • Issue 1117 (2025-04-14): Shebang 25.0, EndeavourOS 2025.03.19, running applications from other distros on the desktop, Debian gets APT upgrade, Mint introduces OEM options for LMDE, postmarketOS packages GNOME 48 and COSMIC, Redox testing USB support |
| • Full list of all issues |
| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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| Random Distribution | 
Chakra GNU/Linux
Chakra GNU/Linux was a user-friendly and powerful distribution and live CD originally forked from Arch Linux. It features a graphical installer, automatic hardware detection and configuration, the latest KDE desktop, and a variety of tools and extras.
Status: Discontinued
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| TUXEDO |
TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite
Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
Learn more about our full service package and all benefits from buying at TUXEDO.
|
| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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