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Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • poll (by Brad on 2022-08-15 01:23:09 GMT from United States)
I'll add one more option to the poll (although I voted for do not...) - I run Sparky Linux and MX-21 Wildflower as rescue distros on a stick, so that I have the option of fixing my (or others') systems when things get botched up.
For me,running a lightweight distro like the above is the only sane option for running "Linux on a stick".
2 • Poll (by dnacif on 2022-08-15 01:41:13 GMT from Chile)
I would add "because it's preinstalled".
3 • Poll, and Linux "Lite" (by Andy Prough on 2022-08-15 01:58:46 GMT from United States)
>"The system used 1,621 MB of RAM upon booting up"
Yowza. I'd hate to think how much memory it would use if its name was "Linux Heavy". That's over 8x what antiX uses on my quite modern laptop. And why a "Lite" distro would use Chrome is a very puzzling question.
Poll - I use DWM because it's super light and fast and because I like the default tiling. Same for Herbstluftwm.
4 • @2 Poll (by Heinrich on 2022-08-15 02:01:20 GMT from United States)
> Because it’s preinstalled
But if you’re choosing a distro with a plain window manager, it’s likely to be for one of the reasons listed. Then again, it’s arguable that even “window-manager distros” like antiX and Bunsen Labs don’t quite use “plain” window managers because they include desktop components and tools that take them partway toward being DEs.
5 • Linux Lite (by Heinrich on 2022-08-15 02:13:03 GMT from United States)
> The system used 1,621 MB of RAM upon booting up, with NVIDIA drivers installed. Minimum recommended RAM is 768 MB
So Linux Lite used more than twice the minimum recommended RAM? With that much usage on first boot, I’d say the minimum is more like 4 GB. It’s hard to see the point of this distro—you might as well be running a more bloated DE like Gnome.
6 • Linux Lite (by David on 2022-08-15 03:21:59 GMT from Serbia)
I used to use Linux Lite 3 (on my old 32bit Acer Asprie One) until the end of support. It was a great experience and I had no serious problems with it. One of my favorites. I don't know how it is these days, but it sounds to me, based on the review, that it's still a great recommendation for the beginners. About RAM memory usage, I am not an expert, but maybe it has something to do withe ZFS?
7 • Memory usage (by anon on 2022-08-15 03:32:06 GMT from Venezuela)
"The system used 1,621 MB of RAM upon booting up"
I'm sure this is a typo or maybe a misunderstood "used" memory value, this is probably including buffers/cache. There's no way XFCE would use that much ram at boot. I run Debian 32 bits with XFCE and after boot it uses 280 MB.
8 • sway (by mahoney on 2022-08-15 04:52:31 GMT from Germany)
I run sway to optimize my workflow.
9 • XFCE, Linux Lite, CLI, WM & DE (by Greg Zeng on 2022-08-15 04:53:39 GMT from Australia)
Linux Lite is reviewed this week. During the last week, Voyager & Xubuntu (both XFCE-based) have been released.
According to today's Distrowatch, there are 265 "Live" Operating Systems detailed. Linux brand names detailed are "only" 242, and others number 23 systems.
All systems can operate without any any desktop being used. If human interaction is needed, then most can use CLI if a terminal emulator is installed. Humans generally need better than plain terminal emulators. Xerox invented the WIMP protocol: Windows, Icons, Mouse, Pointer). Otherwise, humans had CLI assistants called "Window Managers", to assist keyboard use. WIMP often used more hardware resources, so in primitive computer systems, these resources were very limited and expensive.
@3: ">"The system used 1,621 MB of RAM upon booting up ... over 8x what antiX uses"
@7: "Debian 32 bits with XFCE and after boot it uses 280 MB".
Both comments ignore the human factors: WIMP, cache, speed, history, undo, logging, safety, etc.
Unused resources, such as memory, are wasted if not used. As demand & priority is required, this quantity of resources are auto-modified by good operating systems. Not all systems are "good".
Generally "lite" operating systems can be expanded into "medium" and "heavy" operating systems.
The XFCE interface is The most popular one chosen by the creators of operating systems, both open and closed source.
Voyager differs from Linux Lite, in that it has the AWN dock. Most good Desktop Environments, including XFCE, allow the inbuilt creation of these additional "docks". These "docks" vary in degrees of visibility and adjustments.
My profession (Cognitive Science) is monitoring all operating systems, which are used by many machines, biochemical or not. CLI, WM & DE are human adjusted interfaces, needed by humans. Distrowatch is one of the tools used by Cognitive Science, to track these interfaces: creation, modification, decay and accuracy of predictions of the changes.
XFCE is the most chosen interface, whether any interface is used or not. The current usage of interfaces as documented by the Distrowatch "Search" engine: BSD 14 LINUX 242 SOLARIS 5 OTHER 4
NO DESKTOP 38 XFCE 91 (6 based on BSD) KDE 81(57) LXQT-DE 36+30 (1 not Linux) GNOME 64 MATE 50 (4 not Linux) CINNAMON 29 (2 Not Linux) BUDGIE 12
10 • Linux Lite RAM (by Dr. Hu on 2022-08-15 06:12:29 GMT from Philippines)
My install shows around 540 MB using top, htop or free. The system monitor, however, shows 1.2 GB.
11 • Why do you run a plain window manager? (by 0323pin on 2022-08-15 06:28:29 GMT from Sweden)
Voted other since, I run a plain WM because I don't need a login manager, a seat manager, a system-tray, a file manager, etc.
But most of all, all DE's come with a stacking WM by default and I can't stand stacking windows.
Used WM's in order (from the first to current in use): Awesome -> spectrwm -> frankenwm (over one year without a panel) -> leftwm (currently with lemonbar-xft for tracking of used tags.
12 • WMs (by Dabbler on 2022-08-15 07:19:20 GMT from South Africa)
What type of WM used is determined by what you use the software for. My grandson cannot watch Youtube Kids without a WM.
13 • Desktop Environment (by Dr.J on 2022-08-15 07:21:13 GMT from Germany)
The basic question was and is, why should I use a DE? Even simple DEs like XFCE come with many things that I simply don't need. Not to mention the XFCE goodies. Or KDE, which offer all sorts of things instead of doing one thing well (such as a mail program, which is a real competitor to Outlook). Then there are the many bugs. I kept having problems with XFCE with the panels or autostart/starters etc. Since I use Openbox there is none of that anymore. No superfluous "goodies" that no one needs and no bugs with anything. Also: I don't like the idea of a DE as such. Linux offers us a universe of great programs and I don't understand why I should use the programs that others like and put into a basket (DE is nothing else), a basket that in addition mostly comes with basics that I don't need either (display manager, systemd etc). These are ways of thinking that fit to the guys from Redmond, but not to Linux. And the constant squinting at Windows only confuses and ultimately doesn't serve its purpose, because Linux will never compete with Windows for the desktop, and if it does, then only in a form like Android has done (and who wants that?).
14 • WMs (by DE-Man on 2022-08-15 09:00:47 GMT from Spain)
I always find window managers frustrating and over-complicated (text settings, etc) if you want a confortable desktop. The use of a desktop environment like Xfce is simpler, and you don't have to install with it any addon or program (or all the 'goodies', etc) if you don't need them: Just select what you want.
15 • Linux lite (by Hank on 2022-08-15 09:04:33 GMT from Netherlands)
Er Lite at 1,621 MB of RAM upon booting up.
I am writing this and using 712M on a highly dressed up antiX SysV installation with Latest NVidia Drivers installed and fox based tor browser to avoid some nastys..
Snap and buntu, trying to emulate apple and kill deb. No way I will use either the bloated buntu or crap super bloat proprietry packaging they promote...
16 • WMs (by Devlin7 on 2022-08-15 09:09:43 GMT from New Zealand)
I like tinkering with Linux. I went through a phase of Windows managers, Ram usage was low but when I started adding items like start menus, notification areas etc the ram usage crept up and up to a point where there wasn;t a great deal of difference between WMs and a full DE. I settled on Enlightenment. 200Mb of RAM for a mighty fine looking, highly configurable desktop. The one side is the tiling is nowhere near as good. I have lots of keyboard shotcuts and two sets of configuration files where I can change my entire desktop instantly to suit my task. Enlightenment on Arch, just love it.
17 • window managers (by wonko the sane on 2022-08-15 09:22:40 GMT from Netherlands)
Having used ICEWM for the last 2 years plus I will not go back to others. Ice is a stacking WM but can tile with simple keyboard commands or auto if set to do so, Looks are very much user preference, ICE is highly customizable. Lightweight, lightning fast, stable and under active development, mainly adding functions to further improve the already outstanding user experience.
After using this setup XFCE feels laggy and offers nothing in the way of more comfort. Edit text files once, transfer to any other system is no pain, and I understand where my settings are and how to change them. Nothing hidden behind a flashy GUI.
18 • DEs (by krell on 2022-08-15 09:47:47 GMT from Thailand)
Why DE. Mate works super well, and NOTFIES ME if my plug is pulled out , or if I have a lack of Disk Space. These are things for DEs not WMs. Shees any modern comp with 4GB or more RAM wont notice any improvement with a plain X session running fvwm for example,
19 • I like QT and GTK apps but not GNOME and KDE (by lukve on 2022-08-15 12:45:54 GMT from Slovakia)
Hi to all linuxers, i love distrowatch i going here for inspiration :D
Look ! With each version of QT we have new rewrited KDE, devs allways rewrite GNome and so and so... question is why not use Fluxbox with QT aplications or some people like me love WindoeMaker witch is is still active developed https://repo.or.cz/w/wmaker-crm.git
i think its my subjective viewpoint but why not use windows manager with QT or GTK ecostytme, i am from this people who like QT aplications and from GNOME world i like GTK3 and i like CSD (client side decorations), too but i dont like GNOME, i think GNOME apps are super good but GNOME is horrible designed
20 • I run a window manager (by Tim on 2022-08-15 12:55:40 GMT from United States)
I've been using Awesome for the past two years and Openbox for several years prior to that. My main reason used to be performance, but now I have a very beefy system (12 CPU, 24 thread, 32 GB RAM), and I now simply prefer the Window Manager way of working.
21 • Poll (by Otis on 2022-08-15 13:28:51 GMT from United States)
I did the WM thing for a while back when hard drives were dinky and so was RAM and so was CPU speeds. IceWM was tops then, but I still messed with Fluxbox etc.
I always found myself attempting to mimic the Windows interface, with a taskbar and menu and all the responsive stuff we saw in Windows 95 as I tweaked the WM as best I could.
Then it appeared that developers were doing the same thing and we began to seem KDE and all the rest as time went by. Like it or not that's what they were doing; trying to draw Windows users in with look alike WMs and DEs. I mean, the very idea of a "window." Think about it.
22 • Linux Lite memory (by Jesse on 2022-08-15 13:45:25 GMT from Canada)
@7 (and others): "I'm sure this is a typo or maybe a misunderstood "used" memory value"
I haven't confirmed this with Ivan, but looking at the notes and screenshots he submitted, I think 1.6GB is accurate. Keep in mind, Ivan wasn't just running Linux Lite with the Xfce desktop, he's also running it on ZFS with encryption and arc enabled. This would easily put the total memory usage over 1,000MB.
Without ZFS, arc, etc the system would probably use in the range of 500-600MB (based on my tests), but with them in use (as the review details) 1.6GB is within expected levels.
23 • Memory (by Ivan on 2022-08-15 14:07:38 GMT from Germany)
@Jesse and others
I've noticed that with fill disk encryption, adding a call to auto load another encrypted disk, and with the NVIDIA drivers, it does use more RAM than normal. However, this is how I set up my machine, so your mileage my vary.
24 • Reasons to run a plain window manager (by Livio on 2022-08-15 14:10:13 GMT from Italy)
I now use KDE Plasma. In the past, I used LXDE because it is fast, intuitive and not resource-hungry. I abandoned it out of laziness, to have everything already installed; even though, under LXDE, 'alien software' like Gparted, Okular, Evolution, Libreoffice, Marble, Gimp, K3b, Xfburn... ran faster than on the original desktops. Only problem was 'monitor tearing' on Youtube videos.
25 • Window Manager (by pat on 2022-08-15 14:10:16 GMT from United States)
I recently found a great Debian distro with a window manager named "Lilidog". I have it on a very old laptop and I like it better than the other comparable distros. It has some innovative features and comes in 32 and 64 bit. A very nice offering and it might be landing here on DW hopefully. You sold me on LinuxLite so I will give it a spin soon on another old machine. Have a great day...
26 • Fluxbox, Baby... (by Trihexagonal on 2022-08-15 17:45:35 GMT from United States)
I started using Fluxbox 10-12 years ago to conserve resources on a low end machine. I've continued to use it because of the bare-bones simplicity and customization of my desktop.
I liked the way Jessie put it and had never thought of it that way, but by the time I'm done I have my own custom DE to suit my work style and flow.
To supplement Fluxbox I install rxvt-unicode for a terminal emulator, Xfe for a File Manager, gKrellm2 for meters and Leafpad for a text editor.
Those programs alone would be enough for the work I do. and constitute a DE for me I have rxvt and Xfe open on boot in place where I leave the from boot to reboot and shaded when not in use for easy access. gKllm2 opens at boot with them and I size my windows to always keep it in view.
After that I install a set number of programs I've found over time to suit my taste and meet my needs in a general purpose desktop. Audacious, Audacity,Asunder, tkdvd, VLC, Gimp, Firefox-ESR, etc.
While my desktops aren't everyone's cup of tea, I my screenshots are easy to spot due the the configuration. I make all my own wallpapers, use the same configuration on FreeBSD and Kali Linux and if I didn't have something showing which OS it was you would have a hard time telling one from another
27 • Rescuezilla 2.4 is buggy (by Mozzi on 2022-08-15 17:53:47 GMT from France)
If -like me - you've wanted to try Rescuezilla 2.4 you may have noticed it has issues or was not operational.
28 • Rescuezilla 2.4 is buggy (by Mozzi on 2022-08-15 17:55:06 GMT from France)
So you must wait for the coming 2.4.1 version
29 • Encryption (by Morgan on 2022-08-15 18:29:06 GMT from United States)
Using encryption for system or boot partitions (or the only partition) is a silly way to slow down the boot process.
30 • #26 Xfe & gkrellm (by tomaso on 2022-08-16 00:29:32 GMT from United States)
"...Xfe for a File Manager, gKrellm2 for meters..."
I use MATE, mostly. However in experiments with light weight releases, I have found that XFE adds back features I like but without all the dependencies of Caja.
I also liked gkrellm (with gkrelltop plugin) so much that it has become part of every installation on every PC in the house.
-
Linux Lite has been around for many years. I think it offers 5 years of support while Xubuntu offers only 3 years. (or something like that) Makes sense to offer Windows escapees something that they prefer - long support life.
31 • @29 (by MeSparkleWonder on 2022-08-16 00:55:42 GMT from Mexico)
Nobody deliberately wants to slow down their system, but encryption is important for privacy, so the rrade off is worth it.
32 • @29 Encrypt (by Private First Class on 2022-08-16 15:40:07 GMT from United States)
Good point! @31 Privacy is a myth. As soon as you open the front door, you have given up on privacy.
33 • Poll (by Robert on 2022-08-16 16:16:49 GMT from United States)
I run Wayfire with a few bits to make a minimal desktop. Reasoning: 1 - I want Wayland 2- KDE is too buggy 3 - I really don't like Gnome or Sway.
Not much else to choose from that I'm aware of.
34 • @31 (by Morgan on 2022-08-16 17:48:09 GMT from Austria)
The encryption of user data is important for privacy, of course, but encryption of application and OS files is almost pointless because they usually don't contain sensitive information. Verification of digital signatures is needed for system binaries but I don't see it common GNU/Linux distributions (but it's now standard on Android).
35 • poll (by Jay on 2022-08-16 20:28:27 GMT from Slovenia)
I've run WMs-only since Blackbox and would never consider a desktop environment (especially a non-tiling one) for a primary machine. I spend 95-98% of my time in i3 and the remainder in Fluxbox (for weekend maintenance tasks).
Unlike most DEs, WMs (especially tilers) make everything fast and simple. I start with Arch, Parrot Architect, or a server distro and add a dozen or so apps rather than waste time deleting everything I don't need.
My needs are a file manager, several terminals, text editor, several web browsers, RPN calculator, and a document viewer. Anything else (like a custom Conky for Fluxbox) is nice but optional.
36 • Poll (by linuxgeex on 2022-08-17 08:04:04 GMT from Canada)
I use a plain window manager because it's way more responsive when I need to access my system remotely, esp over high-latency foreign wireless networks.
All that animated garbage just slows things down, same with icons on the desktop. And it doesn't just slow down the remote access. You're waiting for it regardless. It's just training you to "like" waiting. Blech.
However I do run Compton, again because it reduces the number of screen draws, which makes remote access more responsive. It also reduces flicker in some circumstances. Needless to say I don't have transparency, shadows, or animation enabled.
37 • PekWM (by DarrenG on 2022-08-17 12:13:19 GMT from Australia)
I confess I use a wm when a desktop -- usually MATE -- proves too sluggish on some bit of older/smaller/cheaper hardware. My preferred lighter option these days is PekWM because it's very easy to config and control (and use), but still quite light. for me it's the 80:20 point.
38 • @32 Privacy (by MrSparkleWonder on 2022-08-17 15:23:52 GMT from Mexico)
It's fine, if you don't want to encrypt, don't, have all your data open and accessible to everyone, but to say that "privacy is a myth" just shows your astonishing level of ignorance and stupidity on the matter.
I won't even bother replying further as there is not point in wasting my time.
39 • Encryption - Security/Privacy (by Otis on 2022-08-17 16:42:49 GMT from United States)
@29 @32 @38 etc ... how many here using Linux or BSD have had their Linux or BSD machine(s) exploited in any way because there was no drive or boot encryption?
40 • Privacy (by Friar Tux on 2022-08-17 16:55:44 GMT from Canada)
@38 MrSparkleWonder, actually @32 is correct. Privacy IS a myth. While passwords, codes, and encryption will keep out, maybe, 90% of folks, it is still hackable. I do not keep anything on my laptop that is personal and/or private. (Had a few close calls.) I also keep a flashdrive with disc tools to totally/securely wipe and reinstall my stuff - just in case. With Linux, it is far easier/quicker to just redo the drive if anything goes bad than to try and find the issue/malware/hack. (Not even curiosity will get me to poke around a hacked/sacked computer.)
41 • PekWM, remote access (by Jay on 2022-08-17 17:16:14 GMT from Slovenia)
@37 I use Pek on my guest account. PekWM is a 'Goldilocks zone' UI choice; even OpenBox can be an obstacle for young children.
Were you a microWattOS user too, Darren?
@36 Consider using the NX protocol (rather than VNC, etc) if remote desktop access speed is an important factor. It only works on Unix-ish systems, but I've found it significantly faster than anything else.
42 • Privacy (by Morgan on 2022-08-17 18:26:02 GMT from Luxembourg)
Why 90%? Maybe 99,9999%? Do you avoid keeping anything personal/private at home because your house is not a NSA HQ level fortress? Disk encryption is essentially bulletproof until quantum computing is practical. Free Software and following the usual recommended security practices are sufficient for protection of data on networked computers for almost everyone. Threat models should be realistic, privacy is NOT a myth.
43 • @40 (by Morgan on 2022-08-17 18:28:12 GMT from Luxembourg)
My previous post is an answer to @40.
44 • Spyware in Linux distributions (by Goetz on 2022-08-18 08:22:36 GMT from Germany)
On August 16th there was news (https://distrowatch.com/?newsid=11614) on Deepin, a distribution from China.
I don't think that an average user looks for spyware in distributions. So I am reluctant to use a chinese distribution. Am I too paranoiac? There can be spyware in any distribution from any place.
45 • RAM consumption (by Leon on 2022-08-18 09:22:48 GMT from France)
As of RAM, resources usage, WM vs. DE's ... it's safe to say that, if you need WM, then you need a new PC. ;)
Either you use a PC for work, or you are just toying around. The times of WMs are long gone. And also, most people talking about RAM, either doesn't understand much about it and can't do the math, or they deliberately ignore the facts.
First, the use case.
If you need a computer for work, you can't really do much without 8 ~ 16 GB RAM. It doesn't help much if you can start that Pentium 3 with 128 MB RAM, as it will be swapping even if you try to open the text editor and write "Yeah! It works!".
I have a 1.3 MB PNG, which, when open in Gimp, consumes 3.1 GB. If I open the original file with all layers, it consumes around 15.5 GB. That's of course application memory consumption, which is swapping, proxifying and such, and that's why the actual PC RAM consumption in such case is approx. the half of those 3.1 / 15.5. However, it's also easy to see, that one won't come far with some ancient machine and 256 / 512 MB, or 1 / 2 GB RAM. And that was only one open image, not a dozen, and it was only one single application, and not a half dozen plus a web browser with few dozens of open tabs.
Second, the myth of "heavy Gnome4" and "light" Mate, BrokenFaceX (=== Xfce) and such ...
Example Mate:
Classic session: gnome-shell uses 272 MB RAM, Xwayland 53 and the gnome-session 37 MB. Panel, indicators etc. all-inclusive. Now, how about Mate? Xorg needs 118 MB RAM, caja 84, mate-panel 67, mate-terminal 64, nm-applet 59, marco 57, mate-volume-control 56, mate-power-manager 53, mate-settings-daemon 52, mate-screensaver 40, matte-session 32 MB RAM. Now, even if you kill half of those processes, it's still hardly any lighter, as each and every panel and indicator is a separate process and adds up, and that's what most people don't take into account when discussing the "lighter". The same goes for Xfce.
Yes, in total, Mate might consume less RAM, but because of it's lack of sophisticated features. What do you get when you type "gedit" on the desktop, in your Fedora 36 Workstation, and in your Fedora 36 Mate? The first will show you that you can install gedit through Software, and the second one? Doesn't even have a search. ;)
Third, the look and feel.
Mate looks inferior compared to Classic session and is less functional. Xfce not only looks inferior, but is even utterly broken. Just look out there and try to find only one good-looking Xfce distri, and you'll find out that there is (to my knowledge) exactly one -- Zorin Lite -- and even that one looks good only as long, as you don't try to resize the panel / taskbar for a couple of pixels. One pixel, and Xfce falls apart.
Forth, the reason why people have computers ...
Install it and start working -- without a need for pimping and customizing -- replace the wallpaper and start working with that beautiful, shiny, new GUI is possible only without KDE, Mate, Xfce, or some ancient WM's. Install Fedora 36 Workstation or Ubuntu 22.04, and you can start working instantly. No reconfiguring or adding or removing of some extensions is necessary -- it just works. If it doesn't, then it's you, not your GUI.
So yeah, if all you do is trying to revive that ole Pentium 2, then installing some server with TWM might help, but if you need something to work with, then TWM won't save your day.
46 • Encrypting (by Sato on 2022-08-18 10:08:17 GMT from Japan)
While encryption might be helpful on few very rare occasions, it's useless in most of the cases, and if encryption, then data partition and USB encryption, but never full disk. BIOS password will protect someone from starting the machine in most cases. Full hard disk encryption just slows down the machine, but still doesn't give any additional protection during the work - good malware (e.g., "state trojan") will record your keyboard strokes and make screenshots of the unencrypted files you read (as example) -- you can't read encrypted docs without decryption.
Generally, encryption makes sense only on smartphones or on a laptop, and on laptops, only in some very rare cases, like, if you are a scientist working on some top secret project, or a journalist working on an article of the century, but it is completely pointless for most of the people, especially if they do it on their own, home desktop PCs. What's there to encrypt at home? MP3's, filled tax bill forms or letters to your doctor or a lawyer?
Maybe worth encrypting if you make some plans for the next LA/NY attack, but even then, only maybe, as if some secret service or some really nasty guys already know about you and your computer, they will have their ways to persuade you to happily encrypt all of your data for them - all on your own. ;)
47 • @46 (re the alleged uselessness of encryption) (by Simon on 2022-08-18 10:42:26 GMT from New Zealand)
A laptop is more likely to be lost or stolen than hacked, and a home desktop also can be stolen... and, if the user has been foolish enough not to encrypt its contents, the thieves now have everything on the disk... personal documents, email, photos... it's all theirs to explore and exploit. To claim that BIOS passwords offer protection is nonsense: it's trivially easy to remove the disks and attach them to another machine, giving full access.
This is particularly true for the many who use email clients (Thunderbird, Outlook on Windows, and so on) rather than web mail portals. Even if you don't have the good sense to protect your own privacy, it shows contempt for the privacy of others to allow all the emails and photos they've sent to you, in the belief that only you would see them, now to be enjoyed by thieves, and potentially published on the Internet and so on. Unless you do everything in the cloud, you should (of course, as everyone knows) encrypt your data.
48 • Who can read ... (by Sato on 2022-08-18 11:19:28 GMT from Japan)
@47 (by Simon)
Maybe you should go back and carefully read my post again.
"A laptop is more likely to be lost or stolen than hacked, and a home desktop also can be stolen... and, if the user has been foolish enough not to encrypt its contents ..."
"... it's useless in most of the cases, and if encryption, then data partition and USB encryption ... Generally, encryption makes sense only on smartphones or on a laptop ..."
Smartphones and laptops exactly because of "more likely to be lost or stolen", but laptops rarely, as most people I know off, never really carry them around, but use laptop basically at home, as a desktop replacement.
Data partition encryption because it protects the data, but doesn't slow the computer as much.
Close the lid and put it back in the drawer when you don't need it. The most part is done on the Smartphone anyway.
49 • Chinese distribution (by Parandroid on 2022-08-18 11:25:46 GMT from Netherlands)
@44 (by Goetz from Germany)
You seem to be a bit of 'confused', for sure.
I don't know which 'secrets' do you have to hide, but there are some facts.
If we carefully follow the news and the proven facts, then it is US and Europe which are greater danger.
It is "Five Eyes" and EU which a building in spyware in your software and OS, and it's US HW companies building in spyware in their HW. It's US CPU companies (with some Swiss help), who manipulate the 'random number generator', so they already know the first half of the keys, without a need to crack it.
On the other side, there is no proof that China or Russia etc. also do it. Not that it would surprise me if they did it, but there is no proof yet. Just like in politics. It is US and their allies constantly causing the wars one after another; it isn't China, Iran or North Korea ...
Speaking about Astra, Deepin and Co., the source code is in Debian repositories.
Depending on your 'secret', much bigger danger poises if your own country is spying on you (which they do), then if someone somewhere in China or North Korea knows 'your secrets'. Probably all places where you won't go ever even as a tourist, neither will they share the data with friendly countries: "Five Eyes" and the EU.
For the end, one shouldn't forget the difference between spying and 'spying' on you. The first one you can't avoid, but you can be 101 % sure that nobody will ever even try -- you're not worth it. The second one is 'spying' in a sense of collecting all data that can be collected and feed some DB, to help earning more on advertising. That's what makes 99.999+ % of 'spying on you', and it's basically irrelevant part.
Bigger concern for you should probably be the fact that you are using Linux at all, as Linux is unsecure by its concept. If there is a web browser update, I have the latest Chrome or Firefox update in a matter of minutes, but in Linux, it can take days or weeks, or sometimes even months before you get one -- if you get it at all (Astra Linux, I'm talking about you).
50 • Privacy (by dragonmouth on 2022-08-18 12:37:51 GMT from United States)
@38 MrSparkleWonder: Privacy is an illusion.
Have ever done an Internet search on your name/handle? The Internet knows more about you than you know about yourself. There are literally thousands of entities that have and collect your personal data and you gave that data to them willingly.
Just a couple of examples: In spite of HIPAA, your medical records are easily available from hospital databases and there is absolutely NOTHING you can do to prevent those records from being accessed and disseminated.
Credit agencies, such as Equifax, have a record of all your financial transactions which they collect from banks, credit companies, stores, your employers, the government. You, and the rest of us, don't know exactly what data is collected and/or when. Even if we did, again, there is absolutely NOTHING we can do to prevent the harvesting.
Phone companies track you through your smartphone. Municipalities track you with their traffic cameras. etc. etc. etc.
Encrypting your disk makes you feel warm and fuzzy and secure but it doesn't really matter because most, if not all, all that data is already out on the 'Net.
51 • Privacy (by Otis on 2022-08-18 13:07:24 GMT from United States)
@50 Nonsense. Hyperbolic nonsense. Search all you want to search. Your medical records are not "on the internet." They can be hacked en masse as to deny of access and the gateways to them can be blocked for ransom, but no, your medical records are not "on the internet." And no, the internet does not "know more about you than you do."
52 • ZFS, Encryption, Privacy... (by Vukota on 2022-08-18 16:40:21 GMT from Serbia)
@38 is correct. Take a simple case of storing SSN, bank account, CC numbers and other data on your laptop and that is enough if someone steals your computer for you to have huge financial consequences if your hard drive is not encrypted.
But everyone here is missing few important things about ZFS on latest Ubuntu based distros. 1) ZFS's encryption is extremely fast and cheap on modern hardware that it is hard you'll notice it with normal workloads. 2) With ZFS you don't have to have two separate layers (file system and encryption layer) 3) ZFS offers fast compression with encryption which can save you from upgrading your hard drive
Related to the memory usage (Jessie noticed in the comment), it is true that ZFS is consuming more RAM, but that consumption is useful to speed up disk access by using more intelligent disk caching strategy (than other FSs). So in a way, if you have computer with low amount of RAM (less than 12GB), I advise you to stay away from ZFS. If you have low disk space (for storing snapshots), I advise you to stay away from ZFS (or BTRFS) as well.
53 • @36 (by Justin on 2022-08-18 17:40:55 GMT from United States)
@36 I never considered this scenario. I was swinging the other way that maybe it's no longer worth the effort to maintain my Openbox/JWM setups over something like KDE if I have the required CPU and RAM. Remote access or VNC seems like a legitimate use case. If that is ever my case, I'll keep this all in mind.
54 • @49 "Proven facts" (by Morgan on 2022-08-18 20:27:54 GMT from Switzerland)
Do you have a proof that Intel or AMD HW RNG (rdrand?) is backdoored? And if it is, Linux uses it safely, so it just adds 0 bits of _additional_ entropy. "They" don't "know the first half of the keys". China and Russia spy on their citizens a lot, and I wouldn't trust a distribution from these countries unless it provides reproducible builds for all packages, and the amount of their own packages and patches is small enough to be auditable, AND there is an independent entity actually DOING the audit. Of course, the same lack of trust somewhat applies to Western distributions too, but because they are more popular there are more eyes looking at their source code.
55 • spythreats (by elearner on 2022-08-18 23:57:31 GMT from Canada)
Spying by Govs, agencies like NSA, 5 eyes, military, police, etc is likely to be done on ppl who are a threat to national security - like terrorists.
Other gov sections and companies are unlikely to spy on ppl, like municipalities, public transport, hospitals, telecoms, etc. but instead have digital processes, facilities, and records that can be hacked and tracked.
That leaves - the insider threat. The biggest danger of being spied on comes from someone who works in or has friends in, the tech industry. Because they are the ones who do work for the above gov agencies and companies. So they know all the default passwords of security cameras, computers, and other equipment, all the backdoor entries, all the zero day faults, etc. Look at Edward Snowden; he was a tech consultant for the NSA who knew all their secrets. He could have used that info to become an evil hacker - as some undoubtedly do, but instead he went public with the info. So beware the sensitive neighborhood hoody-wearing nerd who lives in their basement - if you get on their wrong side they can make your life hell. And you won't be able to patch things up, because they'll be having too much fun hacking, spying, and making money from selling your data.
56 • @55, spythreats (by Dr. Hu on 2022-08-19 01:09:16 GMT from Philippines)
"So beware the sensitive neighborhood hoody-wearing nerd who lives in their basement - if you get on their wrong side they can make your life hell." You do know "Mr. Robot is fiction?"
57 • Privacy or Security? (by Dr. Hu on 2022-08-19 01:42:00 GMT from Philippines)
Since Edward Snowden has been mentioned (@55) it may be good to remember that he got most of his access by simply asking people for their passwords under some pretext. Don't know how competent a hacker he is. Entry to systems is most often gained by phishing or its newer variations, where access is granted by clueless people who believe they are dealing with someone with authority. Then the hacking begins.
For security, the first line of defense is common sense. If your computer is at risk to be stolen and you keep information that might compromise your finances, that you would not want to see published on the net, or that might land you in jail or hot water, by all means encrypt your home and any other partitions where the info exists. If all you have is harmless, then a simple a[password at boot might do.
If you are a common home user, the likelihood of there being people trying to access your system is close to nil. If your actions might raise a government's attention, what you are lacking is anonymity. Maybe time to get a lawyer or get out of Dodge.
For online, hundred-character-long passwords are not needed for systems which resist brute force, such as most banks. After a few tries, you are locked out. Your bank password would most probably be obtained with an email to a bored, careless employee. Nothing you can do about that.
58 • arguments about privacy etc (by dave on 2022-08-19 05:49:21 GMT from United States)
@51 Based on the mainstream narrative of how the internet works, the truth is somewhere in the middle.. the internet in general might not 'know more about you than you know about yourself' but there are definitely systems that know certain things about us that we don't realize about ourselves. Behavior patterns are funny that way. Most of us are not conscious of those patterns, but predictive systems used by something such as YouTube definitely 'know' things about our thought & life patterns / behavior, beliefs, strengths, weaknesses, insecurities, etc.. Of course, this is hopefully limited to how much information we feed to the Beast. Stay off the internet completely and all you'll find are public records information. Use the internet extensively and your 'footprint' reflects that and with it comes all the juicy analytics, etc. Some people are open books and share way too much personal info, so it depends on the person.
@55 the broad scope of Nat'l Security has placed everyone in to the list of possible threats. Canada admitted to spying on something like 1/3 of the cellular devices in the entire country. And that's just what they admitted to doing. Just imagine what the post-9/11 fearmongering US gov't is probably legally capable of doing. Nowadays, the definition of 'terrorism' has been distorted so far that virtually anyone can be accused of being a potential terrorist. With all the back doors and other BS built in to modern devices, it's reasonable to assume that everyone is 'prehacked' and actively under some form of surveillance. After all, the internet is basically a giant military spy/killgrid.
59 • Proven facts (by Parandroid on 2022-08-19 08:15:21 GMT from Netherlands)
@54 (by Morgan from Switzerland)
On one side, we have 'it's proven', and on the other, we have your "I wouldn't trust" (dis) belief.
It's proven that US processors have backdoors, that the US OS have backdoors, that the US HW has backdoors, and it's proven that Linux / BSD are generally not more secure.
I don't have every link on security issues, because I'm more concerned about how the random number generator affects my game, but here are some links on the topic:
https://gofile.io/d/tCl0Xr
Simply regularly read Bruce Schneier website, Kuketz IT-Security Blog, Heise ... all that was already mentioned there.
However, the most relevant can be said in a couple of sentences:
"Every modern processor made by Intel contains a backdoor known as the Intel Management Engine (IME). ... All post-2013 AMD chips contain a Platform Security Processor (PSP). Implementation of this is very different from that of Intel’s IME, but it does a very similar thing."
"Dual Elliptic Curve, or Dual_EC_DRBG, came under criticism after it became known that the algorithm developed by the NSA secret service contained a back door. This can be exploited to significantly affect the resulting numbers. This makes it possible to attack software that uses these random numbers – which are not as random as expected – as the basis for its crypto processes."
"Not enough randomness in OpenBSD's random number generator; Twenty-year-old leak in Lempel-Ziv compression puts Linux users at risk; 10-year-old critical vulnerability discovered in Linux kernel crypto function; etc."
"While it is quite possible that the Chinese build surveillance mechanisms into their network technology, the USA certainly does ..."
Proven facts.
60 • @59 facts (by Morgan on 2022-08-19 19:49:15 GMT from Austria)
Dual_EC_DRBG is irrelevant, it is not used nowadays and was not widely used in the past. IME is not in the processor but in Intel chipsets. IME and PSP are generally not exploitable remotely unless AMT or DMTF have been provisioned. So you don't have a proof that currently used hardware random generators are backdoored and you don't have a proof that unprovisioned or disabled IME on current chipsets can be acessed remotely. Chinese CPUs are mostly ARM with TrustZone enabled, and TrustZone "secure world" OS is similar in function to IME and PSP, i.e. it is a privileged "platform security" blob.
61 • Talking of Conky @35 (by MXgogo on 2022-08-20 07:58:16 GMT from South Africa)
Although firmly based on MXLinux I've recently started using AVLinux which is currently based on MX. However it offers a (pretty standard) Conky., and a few other distroes that I use from time to time (eg BunsenLabs,) do too.
Which is fine, but on none of them does the Conky clock show the time in 24-hour format. And I can't figure out what needs to be changed in the Conky configuration file.
Any helpful comments?
Number of Comments: 61
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