 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 967, 9 May 2022 |
Welcome to this year's 19th issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
Getting one operating system to run applications crafted to work on other platforms is a difficult challenge, but one which many people want to see working. People running Linux desktop systems often want to run Android applications or Windows programs. Meanwhile people using an Android phone often wish they could run full featured GNU/Linux software on their mobile devices. This week we begin with a look at UserLAnd, a utility for running Linux command line and desktop software on mobile Android devices. UserLAnd will even run complete Linux distributions in an isolated environment on your phone and we share examples of this in action below. Is running GNU/Linux software on your phone something you find to be useful? Let us know your thoughts in this week's Opinion Poll. In our Questions and Answers section we discuss how to set up files and links automatically in the home directories of new users. Plus we talk about improvements coming to elementary OS as the project prepares for version 7 and we report on the Fedora team choosing to maintain Legacy BIOS support. We also share a link to a repository of useful Bash commands and shortcuts, ideal for command line veterans and beginners alike. Then we're pleased to share the releases of the past week and list the torrents we are seeding. We wish you all a terrific week and happy reading!
Content:
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
Running desktop Linux software on Android
In the past we have spent some time talking about various ways to run Android applications on GNU/Linux distributions, typically by using sandboxing tools such as Anbox and Waydroid. This week we would like to explore the reverse and talk about running GNU/Linux software on a device which is already running Android.
There are a number of chroot environments and containers which can be installed on Android in order to run a minimal desktop Linux distribution on a phone or tablet. This week I want to focus on one project in particular: UserLAnd. According to the UserLAnd website, the project provides an easy way to set up and run desktop Linux distributions on a phone or tablet (Android is currently supported, but it looks like there are plans to work with iOS in the future). This is accomplished without requiring the user to root their phone. In fact, all we should need to do is install the UserLAnd app from the Play store and launch it.
Installing
I grabbed a copy of UserLAnd 2.8.3 which is a 16MB download and installed it on my Galaxy S9. UserLAnd claims to run on Android 5.0 (and newer) and I was running a de-Googled (/e/ OS) version of Android 10.
The UserLAnd application begins by asking if we would like to send bug reports to the developers to support their efforts in making the software more stable. We're then shown a screen with three tabs.
UserLAnd 2.8.3 -- Available applications we can install
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The first tab is called Apps and it lists software, presumably items we can install. These options include five Linux distributions (Alpine, Arch, Debian, Kali, and Ubuntu). We are also shown two desktop environments (LXDE and Xfce). There are also eleven applications, including Firefox, Git, Zork, Gnuplot, R, GIMP, and LibreOffice. I'll come back to these options in a moment.
The second tab is called Sessions and begins with a blank page. There is a plus (+) sign in the upper-right corner which we can use to create new sessions, though I was lacking context for this option. It looks like a session is a combination of a remote control protocol (OpenSSH, VNC, or XSDL) and a filesystem. The filesystem brings me to the third tab.
The third tab is called Filesystems and is also blank, apart from a plus sign. Tapping the + gives us the chance to create a new filesystem which is protected by a username and password. We can then associate the filesystem with one of the five distributions from the first page.
To be honest, at this stage I was pretty sure the first tab would let me install a distribution and the second tab would probably sign me into a distribution, but I wasn't sure where the filesystem options fit in. I decided the best way to work this out was to dive in and try it.
Running a minimal distribution
Alpine Linux is the first option on the list and probably the lightest of the five distributions offered so I decided to begin with it. I tapped Alpine and was warned UserLAnd wanted to access my storage device. I was then told I'd need to set up a filesystem. I was asked to make up a username, password, and VNC password for Alpine. I was then asked to choose SSH or VNC as my connection method (XSDL is apparently not supported on versions of Android newer than 9 and I'm running 10 at the time of writing). I chose SSH and was told the system was downloading two new assets.
UserLAnd 2.8.3 -- Creating a new distribution session
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About ten seconds later a console window opened and asked me to sign into my Alpine system. I entered my password and was presented with an Alpine text console and a welcome message.
I explored a little and found I seemed to have a completely functional Alpine installation, equipped with userland tools, network access, and APK package manager. I could exit the session and rejoin the running Alpine session through the UserLAnd Sessions tab. I could also stop the running session by tapping and holding the session listed in the Session tab.
I then found my Alpine installation showed up in the Filesystems tab and it seems here we can change our username, password and delete the installation.
The whole system was starting to make sense. I could install a distribution from the first tab, login to the distribution in the second tab and remove the software in the third tab. So far so good.
UserLAnd 2.8.3 -- Running Alpine on my phone
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Running a desktop distribution session
I next tried to install the Xfce session. This follows the same process as installing Alpine, except this time the only connection option was VNC (SSH was not available because we'd be accessing a graphical session). On my phone I did not have a VNC client installed and UserLAnd opens the application centre to install one, specifically one called bVNC.
At first I was unable to get signed into the desktop session using the VNC client. The connection was refused. With a little experimenting and searching I found that I had to change the VNC client's network port from the default 5900 value to 5951. This was not mentioned in the UserLAnd documentation, but it was shared in a review of the software in the Play store.
The first time I got signed into the VNC session there was no desktop, just a minimal window manager and a terminal window. The terminal window had a string of error messages which reported the session needed to be restarted. I followed this advice, stopping and restarting my Xfce session in the UserLAnd application, then tried connecting again using VNC. This time the session connected and displayed the Xfce desktop.
UserLAnd 2.8.3 -- Trying to start the Xfce session
(full image size: 421kB, resolution: 1440x1422 pixels)
The Xfce desktop looks very small on my phone's screen, of course, but I was able to bring up menus and tap launch icons. The Xfce session is running on a Debian Stable platform and we are able to install and run new software from the Debian repositories.
Trying to use the Xfce desktop on my phone was not practical, but I was able to sign into the desktop session using a VNC client on my workstation. This provided me with a minimal Debian system running Xfce which I could access at will.
Sharing files
The UserLAnd documentation mentions that it's possible to share files between the Android host operating system and the Linux distribution sessions we are running. On the Android side of things, a new storage location appears in the file manager called UserLAnd. We can copy files into this folder in the Android file manager to make them available to our GNU/Linux session. When we are running a UserLAnd session files in this location are made available through the /storage/internal and /storage/sdcard directories. We can also copy files we are using in the session to the /storage directories to "pass them back" to Android.
Having this set of directories set aside for sharing files between the two operating systems means transferring files back and forth nearly transparent.
Practical uses
On the surface it may not seem all that unusual to be able to run a standard Linux distribution in its own isolated environment on an Android device. This sort of technology has been around for a while in one form or another. However, I think what UserLAnd brings to the table which makes it attractive isn't its individual features, but how they all fit together.
UserLAnd 2.8.3 -- Running a terminal, text editor, and file manager on my phone through VNC
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Unlike some of the alternatives available, UserLAnd doesn't require we root our phone or tablet before using it. The UserLAnd software doesn't require we use the command line (either on the host Android system or in the guest Linux distributions), and it will help us automatically set up OpenSSH and VNC clients if one isn't already installed. This, along with the guest distributions having remote access features enabled, makes getting started working with the guest systems convenient. UserLAnd also makes five different distributions immediately available to us which we can install (and then remove) with a few taps and minimal technical experience.
When you combine the above features with the shared storage directory we can easily access from both the guest and host file managers, we end up with a very convenient platform. One which allows us to share files between Android applications and Linux desktop applications with a few clicks.
What really appeals to me about UserLAnd is that I feel it is quickly approaching a better form of convergence so many companies have failed to deliver for the past decade. Organizations such as Microsoft and Canonical have tried pushing the idea of one user interface (Metro or Unity 8) which could adapt to any screen size and seamlessly act as either a touchscreen device or a full desktop system. These approaches generally haven't worked well because the applications either end up being cripplingly simplistic, and therefore not much use on desktop machines, or the interface becomes overly crowded and hard to use on mobile devices. Typically both. It is really hard to develop one desktop or one application which will work well across screen sizes and be useful when using touch screens and keyboard input.
UserLAnd offers a better solution. Rather than try to shoehorn everything into one user interface and one set of applications, UserLAnd makes it easy to set up the two separate interfaces and sets of applications side-by-side, allowing us to run one or both on the same device at the same time.
As an example, I can use my Android phone to take a photo and save the image in the shared directory. I can then instantly launch my Debian session running Xfce and connect to it through my workstation's VNC client. I can edit the image in the GNU Image Manipulation Program, save the result in the shared folder, pick up my phone and text the image to someone. The whole experience might take a minute and doesn't require transferring the file between computers, I just need a VNC client on my workstation.
This also means my phone can act as a super portable laptop. Using the VNC session I can be writing a document or downloading a torrent on my phone in a UserLAnd session at home. When it's time to go into work I can pause the session, drop the phone in my pocket, drive to the office, and then fire up a VNC session on my work computer to pick up where I left off. There's no need to synchronize files or use cloud storage, everything lives on the phone and goes with me wherever I am.
The only drawback at the moment is the limited performance of my mobile device. The Galaxy S9 is not a particularly fast device and it has just 3GB of RAM. It's fine for some minor image editing, writing documents, downloading torrents, and converting media files in the background. It's not a device on which I'd perform video editing or play games. Basically, with UserLAnd running, it's a really low-end laptop computer.
Conclusions
Working with UserLAnd was a pretty smooth experience. It takes less than a minute to set up new Linux distributions as guest sessions and we can connect to new sessions almost instantly using either OpenSSH or VNC clients. I particularly like how easy it is to share files between the host operating system and the guest distributions, which effectively allows us to use two sets of applications to manage one shared set of files.
The performance is pretty good, considering my limited hardware, and I like that UserLAnd basically turns my phone into a laptop that fits in my pocket. As I mentioned before, finding a way to bridge the gap between desktop computers and mobile devices is something several companies have tried without good results. UserLAnd seems to have found a better solution which, with a little polishing, could be useful for a wide audience.
I encountered just two drawbacks during my trial. The first is there isn't much documentation. Finding bits of information such as which network port to use with VNC required some searching and I didn't find any explanation as to how to use the various tabs in the UserLAnd app. We can work out most of the details through quick trial and error, but I'd like to see the documentation fleshed out more.
The second issue is the performance of most phones and tablets. A low-end phone just isn't going to have a lot of computing power (or memory) left over once it's already running Android and this reduces the desktop performance. The command line experience is excellent, even on my phone's limited hardware, but the desktop lags and will make more complex tasks cumbersome.
On the whole, this project is off to a good start and I hope to see it expanded and made increasingly convenient to set up over time.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
Improvements coming to elementary OS, Fedora decides to keep Legacy BIOS support, a repository of Bash tips
The elementary OS developers have published a status update which provides an overview of recent changes to the distribution, along with short-term plans for the next release. "System Settings received quite a bit of attention last month. Thanks to a first-time contributor, you can now choose to use the super key to open Multitasking View in Keyboard settings. You can now also set the refresh rate for IMAP in Online Accounts settings. Offline firmware updates are now supported on the System page. In Sound settings, we now have more helpful placeholder text when no input devices are found. And the Language & Region page now has better support for locales with 3-letter language codes.
Our window manager also saw several fixes including more accurately using your chosen accent colour in the window switcher, and better handling window selections beneath the window switcher. We also do a better job of resizing the Multitasking View when display configurations change, and prevent a number of potential crashes." elementary OS 7 is expected to be launched later this year and will be based on Ubuntu 22.04.
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Last month we shared a proposal being considered in the Fedora project to phase out Legacy BIOS support in favour of using UEFI exclusively. After some discussion this plan has been dropped as most developers feel it is too soon to drop support for Legacy BIOS machines. One contributor summed up the situation as follows: "Removing support for doing something immediately is not a 'deprecation'. Better ways to handle transitioning away from BIOS boot support have been proposed on the list. It seems it's still too early to drop BIOS boot support for both desktop (weird or broken UEFI implementations by vendors) and server (no support for booting with UEFI on many cloud providers)."
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People who frequently use the command line often find themselves looking for shortcuts or more effective ways to perform tasks. Using simplified manual pages with examples of common program usage is one approach to finding better ways to use the command line. Another resource many people will probably find helpful is the Bash Oneliner collection. This repository holds a wide range of simple commands and shortcuts to make navigating the Bash command line interface more quick and effective. The collection also shows how to perform advanced filename matches, work with shell variables, and perform mathematical operations on the command line. It's an excellent resource for people learning Bash for the first time and for people who want a quick reference.
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Setting up home directory templates
Sharing-is-caring asks: I've got a shared computer and I want to place documentation and some links to forums and stuff on everyone's desktop. I can easily do that for users that already exist, but what about for new users? Is there a way when a new user logs in for the first time and their home folder is created that this file gets placed on their desktop?
DistroWatch answers: When new user accounts are created their home directory is set up right away. This happens before the user tries to login for the first time. When a new account is created most Linux account management tools, such as adduser, will make the user's directory and then copy the contents of the skeletal directory template into the new home directory.
This is a fancy way of saying there is a directory on your Linux distribution which has its contents copied into the home directory of each new user. Typically this template directory is stored in /etc/skel. If you look inside that directory now you'll probably find a collection of hidden files such as .bashrc for custom shell settings and maybe a directory called .config which will hold default desktop settings.
Any file or directory you create in this location (usually /etc/skel) will get copied into new users' home directories when they are created. In your case you will probably want to add a directory called Desktop inside /etc/skel and then place any documentation, links, or launchers you want to share inside the Desktop directory.
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Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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| Released Last Week |
Tails 5.0
The Amnesic Incognito Live System (Tails) is a Debian-based live DVD/USB with the goal of providing complete Internet anonymity for the user. The project's latest release, Tails 5.0, is the first version of the distribution to be based on Debian 11. "We are especially proud to present you Tails 5.0, the first version of Tails based on Debian 11 (Bullseye). It brings new versions of a lot of the software included in Tails and new OpenPGP tools. We added Kleopatra to replace the OpenPGP Applet and the Password and Keys utility, also known as Seahorse. The OpenPGP Applet was not actively developped anymore and was complicated for us to keep in Tails. The Password and Keys utility was also poorly maintained and Tails users suffered from too many of its issues until now. Kleopatra provides equivalent features in a single tool and is more actively developed." Additional information is provided in the project's release announcement. Tails is provided via two separate downloads for DVD and thumb drives.
Tails 5.0 -- Running the GNOME desktop
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Proxmox 7.2 "Virtual Environment"
Proxmox is a commercial company offering specialised products based on Debian GNU/Linux, notably Proxmox Virtual Environment and Proxmox Mail Gateway. The company has published a new release, Proxmox 7.2 "Virtual Environment" which includes an updated kernel, ZFS support, and Ceph Pacific upgrades. "Proxmox VE 7.2 (released on May 4, 2022) includes multiple enhancements: Debian 11.3 (Bullseye), but using a newer Linux kernel 5.15.30; QEMU 6.2.0, LXC 4.0.12, and ZFS 2.1.4; Ceph Pacific 16.2.7 and continued support for Ceph Octopus 15.2.16 (until mid 2022); support for the accelerated virtio-gl (VirGL) display driver; notes templates for backup/restore; VMID range in clusters: configuration of a desired range of VMIDs with upper and the lower boundaries is possible; pass the keyring secret to external Ceph clusters via GUI; enhanced backup restore dialog - override basic settings; and much more...." The release announcement also includes a video with an overview of the changes. Further details can be found in the distribution's roadmap.
OpenMediaVault 6.0.24
OpenMediaVault is a Network-Attached Storage (NAS) solution based on Debian GNU/Linux. The distribution's latest release is the start of the 6.x series which is based on Debian 11. "After a long development phase I am happy to announce the release of OpenMediaVault 6 (Shaitan). A big thank you goes to all translators, forum moderators and bug reporters for their contributions and support. The main new features of OpenMediaVault 6: based on Debian 11 'Bullseye'; completely new user interface written from scratch; added some new plugins that are based on containers - these are S3, OwnTone, PhotoPrism, WeTTY, FileBrowser, Onedrive (please note that not all platforms are supported because the upstream base containers are only available for specific CPU architectures); enhanced ISO installer; ensure that /media is unmounted to allow installation to USB devices - this will allow the installation from USB to USB device; /dev/disk/by-label filesystem device files are not supported any more because they are not unique and predictable." Additional details are provided in the release announcement.
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 2,719
- Total data uploaded: 41.9TB
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) |
Running a full desktop Linux distribution on your Android phone
In this week's Feature Story we talked about UserLAnd, a tool which allows the user to run a full Linux distribution in an isolate environment on their Android while also being able to run desktop software and share files between the two operating systems. Is this approach to running two operating systems on one device something you would find useful? Does the idea of using your phone as your primary desktop computer appeal to you? Let us know what you think of UserLAnd in the comments.
You can see the results of our previous poll on Ubuntu adopting more Snap packages in last week's edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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Running desktop Linux on my Android phone is something I would do...
| Occasionally for rare tasks: | 351 (26%) |
| Frequently for common tasks: | 154 (12%) |
| Constantly as a primary workstation: | 78 (6%) |
| Never: | 753 (56%) |
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| Website News |
New distributions added to waiting list
- Txikilinux. Txikilinux is a lightweight distribution designed to run on older computers, including 32-bit machines. The distribution is intended to be run by young students (ages 5-9) in an educational environment with the option of working entirely off-line.
- AOS Security Operating System. AOS is a Chinese distribution which focuses on stability and reliability, especially under heavy work loads.
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DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 16 May 2022. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Article Search page. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
- Bruce Patterson (podcast)
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| Extended Lifecycle Support by TuxCare |
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • poll option (by Paul W on 2022-05-09 00:48:37 GMT from Austria)
I think an option "use with an old phone after upgrading to a new one" would be a good choice.
2 • Tablets have the screen (by Ed on 2022-05-09 08:25:59 GMT from South Africa)
Thie UserLand app should be more fun on a beefy tablet like SAMSUNG 7 or 8 series where you get between 10" and 14" screen size.
3 • Old Phones (by John on 2022-05-09 10:28:26 GMT from United States)
I use an old Android with no Cell connection to do Zoom VIA wifi.
Works great. Running right now.
I have Termux on my Samsung Cell Phone. I use command line to ping and connect to my static IP boxes to be sure they are on-line.
GUI interface of UserLand would be nice.
John
4 • Linux on Android Phone (by penguinx86 on 2022-05-09 10:40:00 GMT from United States)
Linux on an Android phone might be cool. But I don't think it would be very useful on a screen smaller than 7 inches without a keyboard and mouse. I've installed Linux Beta on my Chromebook with an 11.6 inch screen. It's basically a stripped down version of Debian from the command line. It's kind of cool to run Debian on a Chromebook, but the Chromebook's 32 gb of storage and 4gb of RAM are barely enough. It was virtually impossible to run an entire Linux desktop like Xfce on the Chromebook, due to the limited resources. I was able to install individual Debian apps, like Stellarium, but startup was very slow. Sure it 'ran' but not as fast as it could on native Linux and it seemed a little buggy. I don't think Linux on Android or ChromeOS is ready for prime time.
5 • OpenSSH & X11Forwarding option (by DaveB on 2022-05-09 12:20:16 GMT from Australia)
Something I recently tried as an experiment. While I successfully did this on my ChromeBook, I suspect it may also work with UserLAnd (and friends)
On a desktop (I will call this the 'server'), install OpenSSH server. set up public key authentication, and enable X11Fowarding. I recommend NOT doing this on a box that can be connected to via the Internet.
On the Chromebook, install the official Linux Beta, install OpenSSH client, enable X11Forwarding there
What X11 Forwarding does is run the app on the 'server', using it's CPU & RAM, but shows the display on the Chromebook.
To start any app, SSH into the server, and start any GUI app by entering in the command to start it, following by an ampersand (&). For example, to play KDE's Solitaire, I type
kpat &
Your distro's doco should give enough info on how to do the above - if all else fails try the OpenSSH website.
Good luck :0)
6 • Stellarium (by cor on 2022-05-09 13:27:12 GMT from United States)
It is available for download on google play store. Works great.
7 • Nice UserLand Review (by ShoehornSlim on 2022-05-09 14:07:19 GMT from United States)
I'd tried Userland a few times but the sparse documentation held me back. Distrowatch has filled in the gaps with VNC port 5901 and the mutual folder sharing. Thank you. Ready to try again!
8 • Nice UserLand Review (by ShoehornSlim on 2022-05-09 14:10:16 GMT from United States)
Oops. Should have been VNC port 5951.
9 • Doesn't do it for me (by CS on 2022-05-09 14:23:32 GMT from United States)
Phone as a laptop replacement? Not interested, never have been.
Phone as a terminal server for a laptop? Not interested in that either, the laptop is likely to be far more capable.
I just can't imagine myself using something like this as a serious daily driver.
The only real laptop/phone communication need I have these days is file syncing, and I use rclone + WiFi FTP Server for that, which gets the job done.
10 • Making the best of UserLand (by Evon Smith on 2022-05-09 16:36:04 GMT from Canada)
I think that if one uses UserLand on a Samsung phone a long with a product like Nexdock, you would have a true phone powered useful laptop. I think this is especially the case with Samsung Dex functionality.
11 • Poll (by Steve on 2022-05-09 18:01:11 GMT from United States)
I don't have a smart phone (just a flip phone that's usually turned off).
Either that's the wrong question on the poll or they need a few more answers for the rest of us....
12 • Linux without rooting for older Android devices (by K.U. on 2022-05-09 18:57:50 GMT from Finland)
Anotherterm (https://green-green-avk.github.io/AnotherTerm-docs/) provides another possibility to get Linux system on one's Android device.
This option has at least these two advantages:
1. It supports even older Android devices starting from Aindroid 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwitch)
2. It supports Linux distros available at linuxcontainers.org, therefore this solution isn't dependent on somebody's willingness to modify Linux distributions specifically for Anotherterm.
In addition, Anotherterm is a nice light weigth open source terminal application even wihout a Linux distribution installed on it.
I found Anotherterm by using the search term "proot" in Google Play store (proot is the toy which makes it possible to run Linux on Android without rooting the device).
13 • proot (by Trihexagonal on 2022-05-10 01:17:54 GMT from United States)
I've used Userland to install Kali on my Android and thought it was nice.
My tablet is a low-end model T-Mobile was giving away so I uninstalled it and use Termux instead. It's a command line utility that you can run things like nmap on without it being rooted.
The version on GooglePlay is outdated though and it will direct you to download a new versiuon off GitHub. I did it without the F-Droid app.
Termux utilizes the proot download that you can install from the command line, then use a command to get a root shell by the way it shifts Directory paths around:
proot --root-id
That will give you a root command line. When you're done just exit back to the user account.
Facebook is full of people who want some Termux commands so they can haxor jooo...
14 • Feature story---general amplification, applicable to all smartphones. (by R. Cain on 2022-05-10 01:45:13 GMT from United States)
There was an interesting comment in the feature story which leads to a question; and I'm not certain that most people who consider themselves smartphone "experts" know the answer. Here's the comment, followed by the question---
"......The second issue is the performance of most phones and tablets. A low-end phone just isn't going to have a lot of computing power (or memory) left over once it's already running Android and this reduces the desktop performance. The command line experience is excellent, even on my phone's limited hardware, but the desktop lags and will make more complex tasks cumbersome..."
Question: all Galaxy S9 specs I could find show a 4G/64G memory complement.
HOW MUCH OF THIS MEMORY IS CONSUMED by the fact that the device is "...already running Android and this reduces the desktop performance."? How much memory is given over to the running of the Android operating system?
...and, of course, the logical extension to our "Really-Not-A-Dilemma"---the answer to increasing desktop performance---would be as simple as increasing the amount of memory provided in the smartphone.
15 • Android memory consumption (by Jesse on 2022-05-10 01:54:29 GMT from Canada)
@14: > "Question: all Galaxy S9 specs I could find show a 4G/64G memory complement. HOW MUCH OF THIS MEMORY IS CONSUMED by the fact that the device is "...already running Android and this reduces the desktop performance."? How much memory is given over to the running of the Android operating system?"
I imagine different configurations will vary, but with just Android running with a terminal app open and nothing else on my Galaxy S9 my memory stats are as follows:
Total memory: 3,645MB (about 3.5GB)
Used memory: 2,885MB (just over 2.5GB)
Granted, it's been running for around two months, so maybe it's consumed extra RAM for one thing or another over time. But it leaves around 1GB of space to run the add-on operating system in UserLAnd.
> "-the answer to increasing desktop performance---would be as simple as increasing the amount of memory provided in the smartphone."
Adding memory will certainly help. 1GB of RAM (with nothing else running) is not a lot of room to run a desktop OS, even a relatively light one like Debian running Xfce. That'll leave you about 500MB of space for applications. More RAM will help.
The other bottleneck will be CPU. Smart phones usually have CPUs aimed at low power consumption, not performance. My Galaxy S9 has a similar feel to an early Raspberry Pi in terms of performance. Having more RAM and more/faster CPU cores would be required to get really good performance out of the experience.
16 • Termux (by Trihexagonal on 2022-05-10 02:19:07 GMT from United States)
I neglected to mention Termux uses apt to install and update programs from the command line so it's user friendly and will be familiar from the start:
apt update
apt upgrade
apt autoremove
pkg update
pkg upgrade
pkg search keyword
I wanted to run nmap on my router today and it wouldn't let me run a Xmas-scan without being prooted:
nmap -sX 192.168.1.1
That was a no-go from the user shell. This works:
proot --root-id
nmap -sX 192.168.1.1
exit
17 • XSDL, VNC (by K.U. on 2022-05-10 06:19:25 GMT from Finland)
The claim that "XSDL is apparently not supported on versions of Android newer than 9" seems incorrect to me as
one commenter in Google Play Store Ratings and reviews section says
that XServer XSDL "seems to work OK on Android 12".
It is my impression that VNC causes lagging in graphics.
It would be interesting to see if XDSL could provide better performance.
The XServer XSDL application has homepage here:
https://github.com/pelya/xserver-xsdl
18 • @9 (by Simon on 2022-05-10 08:30:08 GMT from New Zealand)
"The laptop is likely to be far more capable".
Depends on the phone. My ROG 5s has 16GB of RAM, 512GB of storage, roughly the equivalent processor to an i5, and roughly the equivalent GPU to an Nvidia 1050. Plenty of recent laptops are far less capable. With a good phone, the PC-in-your-pocket possibilities have real potential: in fact if solutions like Userland can enable their Linux desktops to output video via USB-C and accept input from bluetooth keyboards and mice, it's literally a fully functional Linux desktop computer in your pocket (and it's a phone too, of course). I hope they keep developing and refining this tech: it's not something I'm likely to use anytime soon, but as it improves and phones continue to get more and more powerful, I can see the potential for it to be really useful in the near future.
19 • GUIs & Screensize (by AmG on 2022-05-10 08:53:10 GMT from France)
Default android launchers of android are optimized for those small size. Hence no point in running GUI Linux on android phones.
If android phone is connected to a monitor, then we already have Samsung Dex.
Also, whats the battery consumption of running Linux on phone?
20 • Desktops on a phone (by Dave on 2022-05-10 13:27:28 GMT from United States)
The actual usefulness of “convergence” seems useful only for someone whose only computing device is a phone or regularly goes places where there’s always a monitor, keyboard, and mouse available to connect to. Otherwise, a desktop DE or WM seems too cumbersome to use on a phone—I always wonder how many people actually use Samsung Dex on a regular basis.
Mobile operating systems and UIs were developed because the ones created for desktop use work poorly on small touchscreen devices.
21 • @20 Desktop on phone (by tonny on 2022-05-10 16:51:06 GMT from Indonesia)
1. usefulness: For me who like to have one storage-gadget for all my works, it's very interesting.
2. convergence: hence, you can use it as a phone, a pc, a laptop. Depends on what you connect it to. And
3. convergence: so, desktop DE or WM will show as phone DE or WM. Don't forget: convergence.
4. Samsung DeX is still quite far from 'convergence'. If I could use full linux DE on it, and the phone price is acceptable, then I'll use it for my daily driver for phone, server, desktop, etc.
22 • @18 ROG5 gpu (by tonny on 2022-05-10 16:59:53 GMT from Indonesia)
True that some i5 has lesser performance than, say, cortex A-76. For example, some benchmarks shows that i3-6100T (superior than say, i5-6300u and i5-7300u) trade blows with corex A-76. Then we can safely say that cortex A-78 is superior than those i3 and i5. But not for, i5-8260U short burst.
As for gpu, the adreno's far below 1030, let alone 1050.
23 • UserLAnd & iOS (by Justin on 2022-05-10 21:08:56 GMT from United States)
I was really excited to see the note that this might run on iOS. Then I finally found some details, and it looks like it won't be the same at all: https://github.com/CypherpunkArmory/UserLAnd/issues/558. *sigh*
Maybe I'll try to get a really cheap Android device just for this. I like Jesse's point about convergence. This sounds like it achieves the "cloud" computing experience while being "local" to your device. I remember Motorola's laptop conversion kit, which was basically plug your phone into a screen and keyboard. It's a similar idea, but they overpriced it and made it a non-starter. I'm glad there may be a more elegant solution.
I'd really love it if this set up its own wifi AP so that you didn't need to be connected to any wifi network for the convergence a la something like Pirate Box. Still, though, I'm intrigued.
24 • phones (by No, thanks on 2022-05-11 16:25:09 GMT from Portugal)
Linux was named a cancer many years ago, and also long ago the slogan "we are not devils" captured extensive sympathy. Nowadays Google and Android are devil cancers for the sake of money. Microsoft too. Phones are not computers Apps? No thanks.
25 • Each to his own (by Friar Tux on 2022-05-11 18:58:59 GMT from Canada)
@24 (No, thanks) I beg to differ. I would actually welcome a device that has the power of a computer in the body of a phone. Especially if it's pocket sized. I saw one at a trade show once, I would have love to own. The tablet-sized device sat on the table and projected a keyboard onto the table. It also projected a square of light that acted like a touchpad. It was cool to see, but that was years ago and I haven't seen any on the market, yet. They DO need to be pocket-sized, though. And, if I can be really picky, they need to be able to do voice command and/or understand natural speech. That would be above awesome.
26 • phones (by No, thanks on 2022-05-11 19:42:27 GMT from Portugal)
I can't accept that an app to watch what the weather will be next day requires access to my contacts and much more. Alphabet is complicit, and first beneficiary of those privacy intrusion. There's excellent applications made for Linux. Hope that'll be forever.
27 • I hear you... (by Friar Tux on 2022-05-12 13:53:52 GMT from Canada)
@26 (N0, thanks) Now, here, I would agree. I prefer all my apps and programs to be autonomous - not connected to any thing else. And NO app or program needs or gets access to anything outside of its immediate use. If it can't work unless it has "access to my contacts" and such, I move on to something that WILL work. On my laptop even my email client doesn't get access it my address book. "Copy and Paste" will have to do if it wants to remain in my tool bin. (The only addresses in my email client's address book are email addresses from email transactions I've had. My actual Address Book can't be accessed unless I, manually, copy and paste the addresses I need. And my Address Book is quite extensive - listing each person, their spouse, theirs children, their children's children, along with addresses, and notes on health, allergies, etc., almost like an extended family tree.
(On a side note, all private information is treated similarly on my machine.)
28 • I hear you... (by Friar Tux on 2022-05-12 13:53:52 GMT from Canada)
@26 (N0, thanks) Now, here, I would agree. I prefer all my apps and programs to be autonomous - not connected to any thing else. And NO app or program needs or gets access to anything outside of its immediate use. If it can't work unless it has "access to my contacts" and such, I move on to something that WILL work. On my laptop even my email client doesn't get access it my address book. "Copy and Paste" will have to do if it wants to remain in my tool bin. (The only addresses in my email client's address book are email addresses from email transactions I've had. My actual Address Book can't be accessed unless I, manually, copy and paste the addresses I need. And my Address Book is quite extensive - listing each person, their spouse, theirs children, their children's children, along with addresses, and notes on health, allergies, etc., almost like an extended family tree.
(On a side note, all private information is treated similarly on my machine.)
29 • PRoot (by Justin on 2022-05-12 19:38:52 GMT from United States)
I'd never heard of proot before. It looks pretty cool! I've used qemu-static with chroot to do Raspberry Pi updates to SD card images. Now I wonder if I should do all of this with proot instead.
Maybe this would be an interesting DW article or Q&A. When would I want to use chroot, etc., over proot? I see why I'd use proot over chroot because I don't have root permissions and maybe qemu-static isn't installed, but maybe there are more reasons? The Arch wiki is surprisingly quiet: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/PRoot. The date on the "talk" improvement is 2014, so I'm not sure how I've never heard of this tool until now.
30 • How, exactly, *SHOULD* smartphones be used? (by R. Cain on 2022-05-13 02:53:13 GMT from United States)
If one condenses 'The Poll' down to its two major categories, one gets
1) "I would certainly run desktop Linux on my Android phone": 43%.
2) "I would never run desktop Linux on my Android phone": 57%.
To me, this says that there exists what we've all known for a very long time; that there exists two distinctly separate classes of smartphone users: (a) the 'techies' ( us "nerds") who realize all the untapped potential in that computer in the pocket, and who want to shout it from the rooftops and PUT THAT COMPUTER TO WORK; and (b) the majority, **who simply don't care, and want to use their phones for entertainment only** (I remember reading, a very long time ago, that fully 90-95% of all smartphone users did not understand--or care about--how to use the full capabilities of their phones; this fact is borne out admirably by my own family members).
That's just fine; there's really no problem here. People DO have a choice as to how they choose to use technology. 'Entertainment' and 'work' both are very valid and necessary accomplishments for us to pursue.
31 • @30 R,Cain: (by dragonmouth on 2022-05-13 13:21:39 GMT from United States)
"all the untapped potential in that computer in the pocket"
What IS that "Untapped potential"?
Can you compile applications on a smartphone?
Can you run a multi-million record database on a smartphone?
Can you run ANY even semi-serious application on a smartphone?
Let's face it, no matter what the marketing weenies tell us, a smartphone is a compromise and as such, it may be do a bunch of things but is not particularly good at doing any of them. For all intents and purposes, a smartphone is a shotgun marriage between a cell phone and the Original Mac. Even a low-end PC or laptop today has more "untapped potential" than the most powerful smartphone.
The sound quality on a smartphone sucks. The security on a smartphone sucks. You share the ownership of a smartphone with the manufacturer. You may own the hardware but the maker has control over the software and probably has a copy of all your data. BUT you can carry that kludge in your pocket and tweet till your fingers fall off.
32 • Smartphone potential (by Jesse on 2022-05-13 13:36:12 GMT from Canada)
@31 > "What IS that "Untapped potential"?"
A lot of cell phones now have the memory and computing power of workstations from about ten years ago. So just about anything you wanted to do on a computer then you can probably do on your phone now.
"Can you compile applications on a smartphone?"
Yes, of course. In fact, this kind of background software building is ideal for a smart phone.
"Can you run a multi-million record database on a smartphone?"
Yes, definitely.
"Can you run ANY even semi-serious application on a smartphone?"
Yes, certainly. As I mentioned above, cell phones are lagging behind in power a bit, but if you could do it on a workstation or laptop ten years ago your phone's resources will likely handle it now.
"The security on a smartphone sucks."
This depends on which OS you run, not on the fact it's a cell phone.
"You may own the hardware but the maker has control over the software and probably has a copy of all your data."
This isn't true. There are lots of open source operating systems for smartphone, some which are privacy focused.
33 • @31; on the comments of Mr. Dragonmouth (by R. Cain on 2022-05-13 18:39:25 GMT from United States)
To his credit, Mr. Dragonmouth made made one very good point in his post:
"...a smartphone is a compromise and as such, it may be do a bunch of things but is not particularly good at doing any of them...".
The first part of that statement---the fact that the [design and implementation of a] smartphone is a compromise---is an inescapable fact regarding the design of anything, from the lowliest fastener, a leaf-rake, to the most complex integrated circuit, to any automobile, and extending even to the sofa in your living room.
The second part is problematic--- "...not particularly good at doing any of them..." is one of those statements which is self-referentially wrong; who gets to decide, AND DEFINE, if something is "...not particularly good...", or even what that means?
"It doesn't matter whether you think you can or you think you can't...you are correct"--Henry Ford.
34 • Mobile CPUs (by Justin on 2022-05-13 20:00:30 GMT from United States)
I agree with @30. There is work that that processor can use. Until the last 10 years, I ran my whole life on a single-core processor. XP could boot with 128MB of RAM and was considered "heavy" in its day. My low-end laptop is twice as powerful as my previous daily driver yet my mindset that it's "low end" has me use it for consumption rather than productivity. I think it can't, so it doesn't.
The main problem I see with using all those smart phone cycles is wear on the battery, but even that can be mitigated. I would love to have more mobile processors in desktop or SBC form factors just for the power savings (passive cooling). I don't think the technology is there yet. The Pi 4 is billed as a "desktop" computer but it requires a fan because it runs pretty hot (anything over 4-5W requires attention).
At the same time, I can see the argument that mobile CPUs are barely suitable for stuff as it is, and that it is wasteful to use something below a certain efficiency for the job. All that crypto mining happening in browsers costs more money than it generates, but since it's _your_ power, not the thief's, they don't care wasting it.
I'd love to see a return to more technology efficiency fundamentals. People went to the moon with less processing power and memory than my first desktop 20 years ago, but now like 1/3 of all desktops are going to be replaced just because they "can't run" some overblown OS (*cough* 11 *cough*).
Number of Comments: 34
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