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1 • poll option (by Paul W on 2022-05-09 00:48:37 GMT from Austria)
I think an option "use with an old phone after upgrading to a new one" would be a good choice.
2 • Tablets have the screen (by Ed on 2022-05-09 08:25:59 GMT from South Africa)
Thie UserLand app should be more fun on a beefy tablet like SAMSUNG 7 or 8 series where you get between 10" and 14" screen size.
3 • Old Phones (by John on 2022-05-09 10:28:26 GMT from United States)
I use an old Android with no Cell connection to do Zoom VIA wifi.
Works great. Running right now.
I have Termux on my Samsung Cell Phone. I use command line to ping and connect to my static IP boxes to be sure they are on-line.
GUI interface of UserLand would be nice.
John
4 • Linux on Android Phone (by penguinx86 on 2022-05-09 10:40:00 GMT from United States)
Linux on an Android phone might be cool. But I don't think it would be very useful on a screen smaller than 7 inches without a keyboard and mouse. I've installed Linux Beta on my Chromebook with an 11.6 inch screen. It's basically a stripped down version of Debian from the command line. It's kind of cool to run Debian on a Chromebook, but the Chromebook's 32 gb of storage and 4gb of RAM are barely enough. It was virtually impossible to run an entire Linux desktop like Xfce on the Chromebook, due to the limited resources. I was able to install individual Debian apps, like Stellarium, but startup was very slow. Sure it 'ran' but not as fast as it could on native Linux and it seemed a little buggy. I don't think Linux on Android or ChromeOS is ready for prime time.
5 • OpenSSH & X11Forwarding option (by DaveB on 2022-05-09 12:20:16 GMT from Australia)
Something I recently tried as an experiment. While I successfully did this on my ChromeBook, I suspect it may also work with UserLAnd (and friends)
On a desktop (I will call this the 'server'), install OpenSSH server. set up public key authentication, and enable X11Fowarding. I recommend NOT doing this on a box that can be connected to via the Internet.
On the Chromebook, install the official Linux Beta, install OpenSSH client, enable X11Forwarding there
What X11 Forwarding does is run the app on the 'server', using it's CPU & RAM, but shows the display on the Chromebook.
To start any app, SSH into the server, and start any GUI app by entering in the command to start it, following by an ampersand (&). For example, to play KDE's Solitaire, I type
kpat &
Your distro's doco should give enough info on how to do the above - if all else fails try the OpenSSH website.
Good luck :0)
6 • Stellarium (by cor on 2022-05-09 13:27:12 GMT from United States)
It is available for download on google play store. Works great.
7 • Nice UserLand Review (by ShoehornSlim on 2022-05-09 14:07:19 GMT from United States)
I'd tried Userland a few times but the sparse documentation held me back. Distrowatch has filled in the gaps with VNC port 5901 and the mutual folder sharing. Thank you. Ready to try again!
8 • Nice UserLand Review (by ShoehornSlim on 2022-05-09 14:10:16 GMT from United States)
Oops. Should have been VNC port 5951.
9 • Doesn't do it for me (by CS on 2022-05-09 14:23:32 GMT from United States)
Phone as a laptop replacement? Not interested, never have been.
Phone as a terminal server for a laptop? Not interested in that either, the laptop is likely to be far more capable.
I just can't imagine myself using something like this as a serious daily driver.
The only real laptop/phone communication need I have these days is file syncing, and I use rclone + WiFi FTP Server for that, which gets the job done.
10 • Making the best of UserLand (by Evon Smith on 2022-05-09 16:36:04 GMT from Canada)
I think that if one uses UserLand on a Samsung phone a long with a product like Nexdock, you would have a true phone powered useful laptop. I think this is especially the case with Samsung Dex functionality.
11 • Poll (by Steve on 2022-05-09 18:01:11 GMT from United States)
I don't have a smart phone (just a flip phone that's usually turned off).
Either that's the wrong question on the poll or they need a few more answers for the rest of us....
12 • Linux without rooting for older Android devices (by K.U. on 2022-05-09 18:57:50 GMT from Finland)
Anotherterm (https://green-green-avk.github.io/AnotherTerm-docs/) provides another possibility to get Linux system on one's Android device.
This option has at least these two advantages:
1. It supports even older Android devices starting from Aindroid 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwitch)
2. It supports Linux distros available at linuxcontainers.org, therefore this solution isn't dependent on somebody's willingness to modify Linux distributions specifically for Anotherterm.
In addition, Anotherterm is a nice light weigth open source terminal application even wihout a Linux distribution installed on it.
I found Anotherterm by using the search term "proot" in Google Play store (proot is the toy which makes it possible to run Linux on Android without rooting the device).
13 • proot (by Trihexagonal on 2022-05-10 01:17:54 GMT from United States)
I've used Userland to install Kali on my Android and thought it was nice.
My tablet is a low-end model T-Mobile was giving away so I uninstalled it and use Termux instead. It's a command line utility that you can run things like nmap on without it being rooted.
The version on GooglePlay is outdated though and it will direct you to download a new versiuon off GitHub. I did it without the F-Droid app.
Termux utilizes the proot download that you can install from the command line, then use a command to get a root shell by the way it shifts Directory paths around:
proot --root-id
That will give you a root command line. When you're done just exit back to the user account.
Facebook is full of people who want some Termux commands so they can haxor jooo...
14 • Feature story---general amplification, applicable to all smartphones. (by R. Cain on 2022-05-10 01:45:13 GMT from United States)
There was an interesting comment in the feature story which leads to a question; and I'm not certain that most people who consider themselves smartphone "experts" know the answer. Here's the comment, followed by the question---
"......The second issue is the performance of most phones and tablets. A low-end phone just isn't going to have a lot of computing power (or memory) left over once it's already running Android and this reduces the desktop performance. The command line experience is excellent, even on my phone's limited hardware, but the desktop lags and will make more complex tasks cumbersome..."
Question: all Galaxy S9 specs I could find show a 4G/64G memory complement.
HOW MUCH OF THIS MEMORY IS CONSUMED by the fact that the device is "...already running Android and this reduces the desktop performance."? How much memory is given over to the running of the Android operating system?
...and, of course, the logical extension to our "Really-Not-A-Dilemma"---the answer to increasing desktop performance---would be as simple as increasing the amount of memory provided in the smartphone.
15 • Android memory consumption (by Jesse on 2022-05-10 01:54:29 GMT from Canada)
@14: > "Question: all Galaxy S9 specs I could find show a 4G/64G memory complement. HOW MUCH OF THIS MEMORY IS CONSUMED by the fact that the device is "...already running Android and this reduces the desktop performance."? How much memory is given over to the running of the Android operating system?"
I imagine different configurations will vary, but with just Android running with a terminal app open and nothing else on my Galaxy S9 my memory stats are as follows:
Total memory: 3,645MB (about 3.5GB)
Used memory: 2,885MB (just over 2.5GB)
Granted, it's been running for around two months, so maybe it's consumed extra RAM for one thing or another over time. But it leaves around 1GB of space to run the add-on operating system in UserLAnd.
> "-the answer to increasing desktop performance---would be as simple as increasing the amount of memory provided in the smartphone."
Adding memory will certainly help. 1GB of RAM (with nothing else running) is not a lot of room to run a desktop OS, even a relatively light one like Debian running Xfce. That'll leave you about 500MB of space for applications. More RAM will help.
The other bottleneck will be CPU. Smart phones usually have CPUs aimed at low power consumption, not performance. My Galaxy S9 has a similar feel to an early Raspberry Pi in terms of performance. Having more RAM and more/faster CPU cores would be required to get really good performance out of the experience.
16 • Termux (by Trihexagonal on 2022-05-10 02:19:07 GMT from United States)
I neglected to mention Termux uses apt to install and update programs from the command line so it's user friendly and will be familiar from the start:
apt update
apt upgrade
apt autoremove
pkg update
pkg upgrade
pkg search keyword
I wanted to run nmap on my router today and it wouldn't let me run a Xmas-scan without being prooted:
nmap -sX 192.168.1.1
That was a no-go from the user shell. This works:
proot --root-id
nmap -sX 192.168.1.1
exit
17 • XSDL, VNC (by K.U. on 2022-05-10 06:19:25 GMT from Finland)
The claim that "XSDL is apparently not supported on versions of Android newer than 9" seems incorrect to me as
one commenter in Google Play Store Ratings and reviews section says
that XServer XSDL "seems to work OK on Android 12".
It is my impression that VNC causes lagging in graphics.
It would be interesting to see if XDSL could provide better performance.
The XServer XSDL application has homepage here:
https://github.com/pelya/xserver-xsdl
18 • @9 (by Simon on 2022-05-10 08:30:08 GMT from New Zealand)
"The laptop is likely to be far more capable".
Depends on the phone. My ROG 5s has 16GB of RAM, 512GB of storage, roughly the equivalent processor to an i5, and roughly the equivalent GPU to an Nvidia 1050. Plenty of recent laptops are far less capable. With a good phone, the PC-in-your-pocket possibilities have real potential: in fact if solutions like Userland can enable their Linux desktops to output video via USB-C and accept input from bluetooth keyboards and mice, it's literally a fully functional Linux desktop computer in your pocket (and it's a phone too, of course). I hope they keep developing and refining this tech: it's not something I'm likely to use anytime soon, but as it improves and phones continue to get more and more powerful, I can see the potential for it to be really useful in the near future.
19 • GUIs & Screensize (by AmG on 2022-05-10 08:53:10 GMT from France)
Default android launchers of android are optimized for those small size. Hence no point in running GUI Linux on android phones.
If android phone is connected to a monitor, then we already have Samsung Dex.
Also, whats the battery consumption of running Linux on phone?
20 • Desktops on a phone (by Dave on 2022-05-10 13:27:28 GMT from United States)
The actual usefulness of “convergence” seems useful only for someone whose only computing device is a phone or regularly goes places where there’s always a monitor, keyboard, and mouse available to connect to. Otherwise, a desktop DE or WM seems too cumbersome to use on a phone—I always wonder how many people actually use Samsung Dex on a regular basis.
Mobile operating systems and UIs were developed because the ones created for desktop use work poorly on small touchscreen devices.
21 • @20 Desktop on phone (by tonny on 2022-05-10 16:51:06 GMT from Indonesia)
1. usefulness: For me who like to have one storage-gadget for all my works, it's very interesting.
2. convergence: hence, you can use it as a phone, a pc, a laptop. Depends on what you connect it to. And
3. convergence: so, desktop DE or WM will show as phone DE or WM. Don't forget: convergence.
4. Samsung DeX is still quite far from 'convergence'. If I could use full linux DE on it, and the phone price is acceptable, then I'll use it for my daily driver for phone, server, desktop, etc.
22 • @18 ROG5 gpu (by tonny on 2022-05-10 16:59:53 GMT from Indonesia)
True that some i5 has lesser performance than, say, cortex A-76. For example, some benchmarks shows that i3-6100T (superior than say, i5-6300u and i5-7300u) trade blows with corex A-76. Then we can safely say that cortex A-78 is superior than those i3 and i5. But not for, i5-8260U short burst.
As for gpu, the adreno's far below 1030, let alone 1050.
23 • UserLAnd & iOS (by Justin on 2022-05-10 21:08:56 GMT from United States)
I was really excited to see the note that this might run on iOS. Then I finally found some details, and it looks like it won't be the same at all: https://github.com/CypherpunkArmory/UserLAnd/issues/558. *sigh*
Maybe I'll try to get a really cheap Android device just for this. I like Jesse's point about convergence. This sounds like it achieves the "cloud" computing experience while being "local" to your device. I remember Motorola's laptop conversion kit, which was basically plug your phone into a screen and keyboard. It's a similar idea, but they overpriced it and made it a non-starter. I'm glad there may be a more elegant solution.
I'd really love it if this set up its own wifi AP so that you didn't need to be connected to any wifi network for the convergence a la something like Pirate Box. Still, though, I'm intrigued.
24 • phones (by No, thanks on 2022-05-11 16:25:09 GMT from Portugal)
Linux was named a cancer many years ago, and also long ago the slogan "we are not devils" captured extensive sympathy. Nowadays Google and Android are devil cancers for the sake of money. Microsoft too. Phones are not computers Apps? No thanks.
25 • Each to his own (by Friar Tux on 2022-05-11 18:58:59 GMT from Canada)
@24 (No, thanks) I beg to differ. I would actually welcome a device that has the power of a computer in the body of a phone. Especially if it's pocket sized. I saw one at a trade show once, I would have love to own. The tablet-sized device sat on the table and projected a keyboard onto the table. It also projected a square of light that acted like a touchpad. It was cool to see, but that was years ago and I haven't seen any on the market, yet. They DO need to be pocket-sized, though. And, if I can be really picky, they need to be able to do voice command and/or understand natural speech. That would be above awesome.
26 • phones (by No, thanks on 2022-05-11 19:42:27 GMT from Portugal)
I can't accept that an app to watch what the weather will be next day requires access to my contacts and much more. Alphabet is complicit, and first beneficiary of those privacy intrusion. There's excellent applications made for Linux. Hope that'll be forever.
27 • I hear you... (by Friar Tux on 2022-05-12 13:53:52 GMT from Canada)
@26 (N0, thanks) Now, here, I would agree. I prefer all my apps and programs to be autonomous - not connected to any thing else. And NO app or program needs or gets access to anything outside of its immediate use. If it can't work unless it has "access to my contacts" and such, I move on to something that WILL work. On my laptop even my email client doesn't get access it my address book. "Copy and Paste" will have to do if it wants to remain in my tool bin. (The only addresses in my email client's address book are email addresses from email transactions I've had. My actual Address Book can't be accessed unless I, manually, copy and paste the addresses I need. And my Address Book is quite extensive - listing each person, their spouse, theirs children, their children's children, along with addresses, and notes on health, allergies, etc., almost like an extended family tree.
(On a side note, all private information is treated similarly on my machine.)
28 • I hear you... (by Friar Tux on 2022-05-12 13:53:52 GMT from Canada)
@26 (N0, thanks) Now, here, I would agree. I prefer all my apps and programs to be autonomous - not connected to any thing else. And NO app or program needs or gets access to anything outside of its immediate use. If it can't work unless it has "access to my contacts" and such, I move on to something that WILL work. On my laptop even my email client doesn't get access it my address book. "Copy and Paste" will have to do if it wants to remain in my tool bin. (The only addresses in my email client's address book are email addresses from email transactions I've had. My actual Address Book can't be accessed unless I, manually, copy and paste the addresses I need. And my Address Book is quite extensive - listing each person, their spouse, theirs children, their children's children, along with addresses, and notes on health, allergies, etc., almost like an extended family tree.
(On a side note, all private information is treated similarly on my machine.)
29 • PRoot (by Justin on 2022-05-12 19:38:52 GMT from United States)
I'd never heard of proot before. It looks pretty cool! I've used qemu-static with chroot to do Raspberry Pi updates to SD card images. Now I wonder if I should do all of this with proot instead.
Maybe this would be an interesting DW article or Q&A. When would I want to use chroot, etc., over proot? I see why I'd use proot over chroot because I don't have root permissions and maybe qemu-static isn't installed, but maybe there are more reasons? The Arch wiki is surprisingly quiet: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/PRoot. The date on the "talk" improvement is 2014, so I'm not sure how I've never heard of this tool until now.
30 • How, exactly, *SHOULD* smartphones be used? (by R. Cain on 2022-05-13 02:53:13 GMT from United States)
If one condenses 'The Poll' down to its two major categories, one gets
1) "I would certainly run desktop Linux on my Android phone": 43%.
2) "I would never run desktop Linux on my Android phone": 57%.
To me, this says that there exists what we've all known for a very long time; that there exists two distinctly separate classes of smartphone users: (a) the 'techies' ( us "nerds") who realize all the untapped potential in that computer in the pocket, and who want to shout it from the rooftops and PUT THAT COMPUTER TO WORK; and (b) the majority, **who simply don't care, and want to use their phones for entertainment only** (I remember reading, a very long time ago, that fully 90-95% of all smartphone users did not understand--or care about--how to use the full capabilities of their phones; this fact is borne out admirably by my own family members).
That's just fine; there's really no problem here. People DO have a choice as to how they choose to use technology. 'Entertainment' and 'work' both are very valid and necessary accomplishments for us to pursue.
31 • @30 R,Cain: (by dragonmouth on 2022-05-13 13:21:39 GMT from United States)
"all the untapped potential in that computer in the pocket"
What IS that "Untapped potential"?
Can you compile applications on a smartphone?
Can you run a multi-million record database on a smartphone?
Can you run ANY even semi-serious application on a smartphone?
Let's face it, no matter what the marketing weenies tell us, a smartphone is a compromise and as such, it may be do a bunch of things but is not particularly good at doing any of them. For all intents and purposes, a smartphone is a shotgun marriage between a cell phone and the Original Mac. Even a low-end PC or laptop today has more "untapped potential" than the most powerful smartphone.
The sound quality on a smartphone sucks. The security on a smartphone sucks. You share the ownership of a smartphone with the manufacturer. You may own the hardware but the maker has control over the software and probably has a copy of all your data. BUT you can carry that kludge in your pocket and tweet till your fingers fall off.
32 • Smartphone potential (by Jesse on 2022-05-13 13:36:12 GMT from Canada)
@31 > "What IS that "Untapped potential"?"
A lot of cell phones now have the memory and computing power of workstations from about ten years ago. So just about anything you wanted to do on a computer then you can probably do on your phone now.
"Can you compile applications on a smartphone?"
Yes, of course. In fact, this kind of background software building is ideal for a smart phone.
"Can you run a multi-million record database on a smartphone?"
Yes, definitely.
"Can you run ANY even semi-serious application on a smartphone?"
Yes, certainly. As I mentioned above, cell phones are lagging behind in power a bit, but if you could do it on a workstation or laptop ten years ago your phone's resources will likely handle it now.
"The security on a smartphone sucks."
This depends on which OS you run, not on the fact it's a cell phone.
"You may own the hardware but the maker has control over the software and probably has a copy of all your data."
This isn't true. There are lots of open source operating systems for smartphone, some which are privacy focused.
33 • @31; on the comments of Mr. Dragonmouth (by R. Cain on 2022-05-13 18:39:25 GMT from United States)
To his credit, Mr. Dragonmouth made made one very good point in his post:
"...a smartphone is a compromise and as such, it may be do a bunch of things but is not particularly good at doing any of them...".
The first part of that statement---the fact that the [design and implementation of a] smartphone is a compromise---is an inescapable fact regarding the design of anything, from the lowliest fastener, a leaf-rake, to the most complex integrated circuit, to any automobile, and extending even to the sofa in your living room.
The second part is problematic--- "...not particularly good at doing any of them..." is one of those statements which is self-referentially wrong; who gets to decide, AND DEFINE, if something is "...not particularly good...", or even what that means?
"It doesn't matter whether you think you can or you think you can't...you are correct"--Henry Ford.
34 • Mobile CPUs (by Justin on 2022-05-13 20:00:30 GMT from United States)
I agree with @30. There is work that that processor can use. Until the last 10 years, I ran my whole life on a single-core processor. XP could boot with 128MB of RAM and was considered "heavy" in its day. My low-end laptop is twice as powerful as my previous daily driver yet my mindset that it's "low end" has me use it for consumption rather than productivity. I think it can't, so it doesn't.
The main problem I see with using all those smart phone cycles is wear on the battery, but even that can be mitigated. I would love to have more mobile processors in desktop or SBC form factors just for the power savings (passive cooling). I don't think the technology is there yet. The Pi 4 is billed as a "desktop" computer but it requires a fan because it runs pretty hot (anything over 4-5W requires attention).
At the same time, I can see the argument that mobile CPUs are barely suitable for stuff as it is, and that it is wasteful to use something below a certain efficiency for the job. All that crypto mining happening in browsers costs more money than it generates, but since it's _your_ power, not the thief's, they don't care wasting it.
I'd love to see a return to more technology efficiency fundamentals. People went to the moon with less processing power and memory than my first desktop 20 years ago, but now like 1/3 of all desktops are going to be replaced just because they "can't run" some overblown OS (*cough* 11 *cough*).
Number of Comments: 34
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| • Issue 1048 (2023-12-04): openSUSE MicroOS, the transition from X11 to Wayland, Red Hat phasing out X11 packages, UBports making mobile development easier |
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| • Issue 1016 (2023-04-24): Qubes OS 4.1.2, tracking bandwidth usage, Solus resuming development, FreeBSD publishes status report, KaOS offers preview of Plasma 6 |
| • Issue 1015 (2023-04-17): Manjaro Linux 22.0, Trisquel GNU/Linux 11.0, Arch Linux powering PINE64 tablets, Ubuntu offering live patching on HWE kernels, gaining compression on ex4 |
| • Issue 1014 (2023-04-10): Quick looks at carbonOS, LibreELEC, and Kodi, Mint polishes themes, Fedora rolls out more encryption plans, elementary OS improves sideloading experience |
| • Issue 1013 (2023-04-03): Alpine Linux 3.17.2, printing manual pages, Ubuntu Cinnamon becomes official flavour, Endeavour OS plans for new installer, HardenedBSD plans for outage |
| • Issue 1012 (2023-03-27): siduction 22.1.1, protecting privacy from proprietary applications, GNOME team shares new features, Canonical updates Ubuntu 20.04, politics and the Linux kernel |
| • Issue 1011 (2023-03-20): Serpent OS, Security Onion 2.3, Gentoo Live, replacing the scp utility, openSUSE sees surge in downloads, Debian runs elction with one candidate |
| • Issue 1010 (2023-03-13): blendOS 2023.01.26, keeping track of which files a package installs, improved network widget coming to elementary OS, Vanilla OS changes its base distro |
| • Issue 1009 (2023-03-06): Nemo Mobile and the PinePhone, matching the performance of one distro on another, Linux Mint adds performance boosts and security, custom Ubuntu and Debian builds through Cubic |
| • Issue 1008 (2023-02-27): elementary OS 7.0, the benefits of boot environments, Purism offers lapdock for Librem 5, Ubuntu community flavours directed to drop Flatpak support for Snap |
| • Issue 1007 (2023-02-20): helloSystem 0.8.0, underrated distributions, Solus team working to repair their website, SUSE testing Micro edition, Canonical publishes real-time edition of Ubuntu 22.04 |
| • Issue 1006 (2023-02-13): Playing music with UBports on a PinePhone, quick command line and shell scripting questions, Fedora expands third-party software support, Vanilla OS adds Nix package support |
| • Issue 1005 (2023-02-06): NuTyX 22.12.0 running CDE, user identification numbers, Pop!_OS shares COSMIC progress, Mint makes keyboard and mouse options more accessible |
| • Issue 1004 (2023-01-30): OpenMandriva ROME, checking the health of a disk, Debian adopting OpenSnitch, FreeBSD publishes status report |
| • Issue 1003 (2023-01-23): risiOS 37, mixing package types, Fedora seeks installer feedback, Sparky offers easier persistence with USB writer |
| • Issue 1002 (2023-01-16): Vanilla OS 22.10, Nobara Project 37, verifying torrent downloads, Haiku improvements, HAMMER2 being ports to NetBSD |
| • Issue 1001 (2023-01-09): Arch Linux, Ubuntu tests new system installer, porting KDE software to OpenBSD, verifying files copied properly |
| • Issue 1000 (2023-01-02): Our favourite projects of all time, Fedora trying out unified kernel images and trying to speed up shutdowns, Slackware tests new kernel, detecting what is taking up disk space |
| • Issue 999 (2022-12-19): Favourite distributions of 2022, Fedora plans Budgie spin, UBports releasing security patches for 16.04, Haiku working on new ports |
| • Issue 998 (2022-12-12): OpenBSD 7.2, Asahi Linux enages video hardware acceleration on Apple ARM computers, Manjaro drops proprietary codecs from Mesa package |
| • Issue 997 (2022-12-05): CachyOS 221023 and AgarimOS, working with filenames which contain special characters, elementary OS team fixes delta updates, new features coming to Xfce |
| • Issue 996 (2022-11-28): Void 20221001, remotely shutting down a machine, complex aliases, Fedora tests new web-based installer, Refox OS running on real hardware |
| • Issue 995 (2022-11-21): Fedora 37, swap files vs swap partitions, Unity running on Arch, UBports seeks testers, Murena adds support for more devices |
| • Issue 994 (2022-11-14): Redcore Linux 2201, changing the terminal font size, Fedora plans Phosh spin, openSUSE publishes on-line manual pages, disabling Snap auto-updates |
| • Full list of all issues |
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Parslinux GNU/Linux
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Status: Discontinued
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View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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