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1 • UEFI/Bios (by Brad on 2022-04-18 00:39:29 GMT from United States)
I have one older laptop which is a "Hybrid" BIOS/UEFI, back when UEFI was in it's infancy.
It's a challenge to dual-boot this laptop between Windows and Linux.
I have another even older laptop which is BIOS-only (Linux-only, since it was designed to use Windows XP).
All other laptops are UEFI.
2 • Poll (by Otis on 2022-04-18 00:58:01 GMT from United States)
There's a choice on both this machine and the other one I use at home which is older. I run legacy on the older one, even though I could run it on UEFI, because I fool around with distros on that one which brag about being for older hardware. That one also has a spinning HDD and this one has an SDD/NVME.
3 • Mac software availability and quality (by Dave on 2022-04-18 01:17:01 GMT from United States)
> The macOS…platform has many fewer exclusive applications.
I’ve actually found the opposite to be true, at least in terms of the applications I care to run. I’ve also found the quality and polish of Mac programs to be superior to those available for Windows.
Linux software developers and their users would benefit from spending time running macOS and the best software available for that platform. Too many who have never actually spent substantive time using it and mastering its intricacies write it off as simplistic and dumbed down for the masses, but there are reasons so many developers and other power users use the platform and prefer it to Windows and to Linux in its current iterations. Its Unix base I makes it more pleasant to use than Windows, especially on the command line, for anyone who’s already familiar with Linux.
4 • Follow up to comment @3 (by Dave on 2022-04-18 01:31:40 GMT from United States)
Follow up on my comment @3:
I’m completely aware of the critiques of the Mac, Apple, and proprietary operating systems and software from open-source and free-software perspectives, and I’m sympathetic to them.
But A) there’s something to be said for knowing your “enemy,” and B) L Desktop Linux and free software can’t win though extensive user share appeals to ideology or claims of technical superiority under the hood. It also has to win on the quality of its user experience and its available software applications.
5 • @3 (by Andy Prough on 2022-04-18 01:38:36 GMT from United States)
>"Linux software developers and their users would benefit from spending time running macOS and the best software available for that platform. "
They would also benefit from not spending thousands of dollars to run a proprietary hardware and software that they aren't going to be using longterm.
6 • postmarketOS (by Jeff on 2022-04-18 01:45:51 GMT from United States)
postmarketOS certainly will protect your mobile privacy.
They will make it so inconvenient to use that you will power it down and leave it at home in a drawer; voila total privacy.
...
There does seem to be a trend with Android phones to require more security as well, my current phone would not let me set it up without a password or fingerprint to unlock it, my old phone would just nag me about it every few weeks.
7 • UEFI (by V on 2022-04-18 01:45:55 GMT from United States)
I use UEFI to boot. It (right now) is the current standard for firmware. Legacy BIOS is likely going to be deprecated eventually, probably within 10-15 years. Fedora is removing legacy support, which will likely spread through all distros except ones that haven't been updated in a while or that are intended to run on old machines.
I don't think the Linux kernel is going to ditch BIOS support ever, considering that some almost 35 year old machines use that firmware and some of them can run modern Linux.
8 • UEFI (by falcon1952 on 2022-04-18 02:10:55 GMT from United States)
@7 above is right on! Even on my machines that are capable of UEFI, I still choose to run in BIOS mode. I don't have any technical reason for avoiding UEFI, I just feel more comfortable with the BIOS.
9 • WINE (CROSSOVER) answer (by Greg Zeng on 2022-04-18 03:11:57 GMT from Australia)
From Wikipedia: "CrossOver is a Microsoft Windows compatibility layer available for Linux, macOS, and Chrome OS. This compatibility layer enables many Windows-based applications to run on Linux operating systems, macOS, or Chrome OS."
If you need to change the above entry, have a Wikipedia editor, such as myself, to make the necessary changes.
Crossover is the commercial version, which also has administration of the "free" version called "WINE". This has been since the two independent products were soon created. Both emulators generally are imperfect, but the attempts to work are noted in the several possible cases.
10 • Legacy BIOS or UEFI, but both also, (by Greg Zeng on 2022-04-18 03:27:57 GMT from Australia)
On all our laptops, we run both booting systems. The "F12" or similar key will expose these choices. This enables different operating system menus, running any combination and numbers of Windows, Windows-11, Linux & BSD operating systems. "Grub Customizer" and its kind however only recognize either NTFS and the EXT4 partitions.
There may sometimes be complications, with the numbers and types of partitions labelled "boot" and "Esp", for each computer. The last installed operating system generally determines the availability of the menu choices offered in each booting system. This last installed operating system can be used to correct or modify the menu repairs as needed. General purpose Linux systems seem best for this, such as Mint, instead of KDE Neon.
11 • (U)EFI (by Romane on 2022-04-18 04:56:20 GMT from Australia)
Fairly recent in booting through the EFI interface. Mainly because my BIOS is dated from 2015. Though there is an entry in the BIOS to boot in both BIOS and EFI mode, if I set it for that it appears _only_ compatible with booting via BIOS, while utilising the setting for EFI seems only compatible with EFI - which is perfectly fine now that that is my choice of means.
The implementation has a few small kinks around the edges (because older implementation, I assume) but nothing for the nonce which is causing me any concerns or issues in practice.
12 • BIOS vs UEFI (by Tux_Raider on 2022-04-18 08:27:46 GMT from United States)
I seen UEFI break too many times requiring a reinstall of tbe OS so i prefer legacy BIOS
13 • BIOS or UEFI (by Someguy on 2022-04-18 08:42:01 GMT from United Kingdom)
Prefer to avoid UEFI except on gifted (needfull of repairs!) HW without the BIOS options.
In the bad old days of using the devil's OS, there used to be utilities to access and alter hidden BIOS functions. Was a lot of fun if occasionally dangerous! Haven't found anything compatible for Linux (please let me know if there is such). Frankly, not troubled if one of the hidden features kills the BIOS or other parts of the machine as they're all replaceable!
14 • Apple (by Dave Fogg Postles on 2022-04-18 10:12:57 GMT from United Kingdom)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2019/12/17/apple-and-tesla-among-tech-giants-being-sued-over-the-deaths-and-injuries-of-child-cobalt-miners-in-drc/?sh=6e5a38273107
https://actions.sumofus.org/pages/apple-stop-using-forced-labor/?akid=101412.1615051.4tT1pk&rd=1&source=fwd&t=1006
(Uyghurs)
Possibly affects other producers too, but one of the many reasons why I avoid Apple (others are its tax avoiding strategies and the markup, the latter as noted above too).
15 • Re: Using BIOS or UEFI (by Lost in Documentation on 2022-04-18 10:32:31 GMT from Canada)
For anyone interested in learning more about the subject, 2 books:
Harnessing the UEFI Shell: Moving the Platform Beyond DOS
By Michael Rothman, Vincent Zimmer, Tim Lewis
Beyond Bios: Developing with the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface
By Michael Rothman, Vincent Zimmer, Suresh Marisetty
Don't recall if purchased from Amazon, or Barnes & Noble
Probably more information than most will want to know.
For a basic intro, checkout:
https://gparted.org/documentation.php
At the bottom, the 2 items:
The EFI System Partition and the Default Boot Behavior
UEFI boot: how does that actually work, then?
Most laptops nowadays seem to only support UEFI boot.
And then there's the fun of booting Linux on a Chromebook.....
16 • BIOS vs UEFI (by MichaelH on 2022-04-18 11:02:01 GMT from United Kingdom)
The majority, probably the vast majority of people who use Linux, are only doing so because their hardware is not good enough to run the latest version of Windows. Nothing wrong with getting a bit of extra life out of old hardware, but it does mean the BIOS will be more familiar or the only choice for most.
I personally think if people are restricted to a BIOS and 32 bit, they're flogging a dead horse and should just admit defeat - you can't save or re-purpose them all.
I like to change with the times, so I use UEFI where possible, but the U which stands for Unified (pause for derisive laugh) is anything but in appearance. Even with the advantage of mouse control, it can be a pain navigating and finding the exact option you want whereas the old BIOS was familiar and a pretty standard layout across different brands of motherboard.
Like it or not UEFI is the future, at least until something better comes along.
17 • EFI (by Tad Strange on 2022-04-18 12:00:46 GMT from Canada)
I generally prefer EFI, though in my one test machine where I had used several SD cards to test distros, the EFI menu contains many defunct entries that I do not know how to purge (though I've not really looked up on it, since it doesn't bother me).
On my main work laptop I left the Windows drive alone and installed Linux, with it's own EFI partition, on the second drive (It has an NVME and SATA). Keeps things nice and simple, and I'm not concerned about some Windows update breaking things.
18 • BIOS or UEFI... (by Friar Tux on 2022-04-18 14:00:10 GMT from Canada)
To be honest... I really don't care. It's the OS I'm interested in. How my computer boots to that OS doesn't matter to me so long as it boots. I have several laptops of varying ages, so both BIOS and UEFI are present, but again, so long as I get to the OS to do what I need to do, I'd use the old crank to start the engine.
@16 (MichaelH) As for flogging a dead horse... the horse actually ain't dead, yet. I have a couple of laptops that are both BIOS and 32 bit. It says a lot about a company when their products don't age and die on you. All my laptops (by the same company) have out lasted those of most of my kith and kin. And yes, one of the reason I switched from Windows 10 to Linux IS because Windows was not compatible with my ancient hardware. That ancient machine is still working beautifully - and doing the same stuff I would do on Windows quite nicely, and using less resources. (It's no wonder companies with hundreds of computers were reluctant to switch. Buying hundreds of new machines just isn't in the budget.) Don't tell I need new hardware to run your OS when the hardware I've been using still works quite well. If your OS won't run on it I will find an OS that will. (Kind of an elitist view, I would think.)
We have the resources and technology to build products that don't die, yet we build them to deteriorate in a few years. No wonder our landfill sites are overflowing and consumer confidence is at an all time low. I still have and use a fridge built in the sixties. It still works flawlessly. I wish I could say that of a lot of other products. *End of rant.*
19 • BIOS or UEFI (by Didier Spaier on 2022-04-18 14:54:45 GMT from France)
If a machine can boot in EFI mode I have no reason to use the BIOS (or legacy) mode.
I only boot in Legacy mode for testing as I intend that the Slint distribution that I maintain stays able to boot in both mode if the user's machine allows it, or is just not UEFI-ready.
20 • Looking across the fence (by CS on 2022-04-18 16:20:05 GMT from United States)
@3
>> Linux software developers and their users would benefit from spending time running macOS and the best software available for that platform
iTerm2 makes running a terminal on Linux feel like a trip to the stone age. I wish half of the energy spent creating, rewriting and reimagining desktop environments went into making a great terminal emulator.
21 • UEFI or Legacy BIOS (by Roger on 2022-04-18 17:39:27 GMT from Belgium)
I use both across multiple machines was my answer, that is because we run a lot of computers from 2005 to 2010.
As long as those work they will be used and that can be another 10 years.
22 • About Endeavour (by linex on 2022-04-18 20:44:53 GMT from Portugal)
Antergos to Endeavour worth a case study. Arch based desktop is complex, not easy to set up to common users. Wish they keep up working and progress further from "smartass" Arch's.
23 • BIOS forever (by David Walser on 2022-04-18 20:46:06 GMT from United States)
UEFI is a braindead, broken design. Forcing the use of a VFAT filesystem rather than a reliable journaled Linux/UNIX filesystem, so it can get corrupted, making your system unbootable? No thanks. There's also the extra unnecessary added complication of the EFI menu (which can be managed manually with efibootmgr) which I've seen get corrupted before at work. I don't ever choose UEFI as long as I have a choice.
24 • BIOS (by dave on 2022-04-18 22:38:25 GMT from United States)
I still have yet to own a machine that has UEFI. Never owned a laptop either.
25 • BIOS forever (by Didier Spaier on 2022-04-18 22:50:19 GMT from France)
@23 David Walser: quite the opposite, the choice a VFAT file system was very wise: every OS on earth has a support for it, it is simple (thus not costly) to implement, robust enough for this use case: you need to write to the ESP only to install a new OS loader, shim or other stuff, so chances of halting the system while writing on the ESP are very slim. And bear in mind that EFI is for all kinds of OS, not only Linux. Not only the choice of a journalised file system would have been an overkill in this case, it would have needed more time to develop compliant firmware. All this being said I am fine with you not choosing UEFI as long as you have a choice, of course.
26 • Guy (by UEFI on 2022-04-18 23:37:18 GMT from United States)
Gotta go with UEFI. It's just so nice to be able to boot up with EFI stubs. Nothing to install, no dependencies, no bloated GRUB, nothing sitting between the firmware and the Kernel to screw things up. Wouldn't ever want to go back to the old way.
27 • BIOS (by kz4 on 2022-04-19 01:08:34 GMT from Turkey)
Many of us cannot even buy a new computer. The old computers we use are only legacy BIOS.
Remember the Linux based mainstream OS's. One of them was Ubuntu with its icon resembling that OS will be for everyone. So, I hope that at least some of them will keep supporting legacy BIOS systems.
28 • BIOS (by penguinx86 on 2022-04-19 01:58:21 GMT from United States)
My preference is to use BIOS. It helps me get the system up and running quickly, plus its easier to troubleshoot if things go wrong. I will continue to avoid UEFI and use BIOS as long as I have a choice. Taking away BIOS is almost as bad as uppity IAU scientists like Niel de Grasse saying Pluto is no longer a planet.
29 • BIOS vs UEFI (by Andy Figueroa on 2022-04-19 03:34:21 GMT from United States)
In my experience, UEFI has been a buggy, convoluted, and inconsistent mess. When I set up my new desktop five years ago, I purposefully disabled UEFI and chose to use BIOS/Legacy mode with MBR partitioned disks.
I could have also answered that use both across multiple machines, but those machines at the school where I am the system admin that are booting with UEFI are doing so only because the BIOS firmware was so buggy that legacy mode would not work. All my computers at home boot with the BIOS..
Those who wrote that those who use Linux only do so because their computers are old are rude and naive. Virtually every supercomputer in the word runs Linux.
30 • Zephix (by Andy Figueroa on 2022-04-19 03:39:48 GMT from United States)
Exactly what is the excuse for bringing something like Zephix into the database. Here we have another small hobby project masquerading as a Linux distribution that brings nothing to the table, and less. BTW, their web site is asleep.
31 • uefi and bios (by Huan louis on 2022-04-19 07:45:35 GMT from France)
i use both,
becouse i have a pc from 2004 , and a few modern machines.
my 2004 pc has still ribbon data cables , the bios is from American Megatrends,
32 • UEFI and BIOS (by DachshundMan on 2022-04-19 09:52:20 GMT from United Kingdom)
I am writing on a Lenovo i5 7th gen that uses UEFI as it needs to be able to dual boot with Win10 in case the machine my wife uses for her voluntary work fails as they only support Microsoft SW. I inherited this machine when it needed a minor repair that I was able to make and when I installed Win10 it set the boot to UEFI so I left it like that.
I also use a Samsung 3rd gen i5 that was fine with BIOS boot but when I changed the disk to SSD I stupidly switched it to UEFI boot and triggered a bios bug so now I need to boot to a live USB and then select the "boot from internal disk option". I have tried everything I can think of to reset the bios to no avail so probably I will need to ditch the machine........shame as it is much more solidly made than the Lenovo. Obviously I should have left well alone and used legacy boot.
33 • Horses for Courses (by AdamB on 2022-04-19 10:44:20 GMT from Australia)
I use UEFI on machines which support it, and am happy to use BIOS on older machines (of which I have quite a few).
I use UEFI, when available, partly to get experience with the system, some aspects of which are still a mystery to me - multi-boot setups are particularly problematic.
When creating a VirtualBox virtual machine, the default format is a BIOS/MBR setup, which keeps things delightfully simple. I assume that the same would apply to a QEMU virtual machine.
I like GPT partitioning, and on one of my BIOS desktops I have managed to get it working by using a BIOS Boot Partition; but on another, even older, desktop, I couldn't get that setup to work.
One advantage of BIOS/MBR systems is that GRUB can use chainloading, so that the correct kernel command line switches are applied - but I haven't been able to get chainloading working on a UEFI system - maybe I need to learn more about EFI boot management.
In my experience, both BIOS and UEFI firmware can be buggy. The UEFI user interface is poorly laid out on some motherboards.
34 • Recent UEFI switch (by uz64 on 2022-04-19 10:47:49 GMT from United States)
I have a 2013/2014-era Lenovo laptop that, for most of my time owning it, I ran in either "Both, Legacy First/Preferred" or "Legacy Only" mode. I just didn't trust UEFI.
However, it's 2022 now. Linux's support of UEFI should be much improved by now, to the point of being just as reliable as the BIOS. It might even offer some improvents somehow. So at some point recently, I believe it may have been last year, I switched to "UEFI Only" mode once and for all, and reinstalled/updated the system using the GPT with dedicated UEFI partition in the setup.
It's been working fine ever since, although there's something about there being a special "UEFI" partition with kernels instead of them being in the / partition that I don't like. It lost some simplicity and elegance in my opinion, and even worse, it doesn't give you much freedom in how you set up that partition. For example, I think it has to be FAT--even on a system that Windows is never going to be on. You know... for supposed "compatibility" reasons...
35 • My Mac experience (by AdamB on 2022-04-19 13:10:42 GMT from Australia)
Back in the day, although already a Linux person, I was attracted to the Macintosh hardware, and joined a Mac user group to find out more about Macs. I eventually became the Treasurer of the group, and remained in that position for quite a few years. I purchased a MacBook Air (mid-2013) to take to meetings, and so as to gain experience in running applications on Macs, I gradually moved all my work related to the group (including its website) onto the MBA.
I love this machine; it is still the machine on which I do a lot of my work. It is highly portable, the screen is excellent, and printing works! Having a good screen is important for photo work, and I have become dependent on iPhoto - though I also load all my photos into Shotwell on one of my Linux desktops. I have more recently acquired a second-hand 2011 MacBook Pro, upgraded to 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD.
Mac OS integates well with my Linux machines, and I use rsync heavily to move files to and from my Linux machines, and my hosting service.
That said, I have become disillusioned with Apple's direction - everything now is a non-upgradeable sealed unit, and priced out of my reach. So I have been looking for alternatives, and have recently found a second-hand Lenovo ThinkPad with 1920x1080 IPS screen, which was affordable, and is looking quite promising.
36 • Pine Microcomputer (by R. Cain on 2022-04-19 13:47:00 GMT from United States)
We all need to 'dial back' our expectations of projects from Pine Microcomputer, including Pine itself.
History has shown that Pine can put together very impressivehardware, and then it focuses its attention on the 'next, great hardware idea', leaving "the community" to get along, on its own, as best it can.
We all absolutely need to recognize, and admit to ourselves---no matter how painful it may be---that Pine makes great projects (not 'products', but 'projects') for hacking purposes, but not much else.
Quotes from Pine regarding the introduction of the PinePhone Pro, and PinePhone:
"...Now that software has reached a higher degree of maturity, introducing a fast smartphone with premium features makes sense..."
"...We cannot wait to see what the community comes up with..."
"...The PinePhone Software Releases page has a complete list of CURRENTLY SUPPORTED phone-optimized Operating System images THAT WORK WITH THE PINEPHONE as well as other related software information. As soon as more patches get mainlined and distributions ship with the updated kernel, they will also be able to run unmodified on the device..."
Perhaps the best indication that "the community" has awakened to reality of Pine's modus operandi is contained in the poll results of Distrowatch's own poll---"Will you buy the PinePhone Pro?", where only three percent of the respondents indicated a positive acceptance of the device---"will order later", and "undecided" are NOT open to be interpreted as positive answers..
37 • No UEFI allowed (by Bob McConnell on 2022-04-19 14:12:45 GMT from United States)
As long as the UEFI code and keys are controlled by Microsoft, there is no way I am going to trust it. First of all, I gave up fighting their bug ridden garbage three decades ago when I found Linux (SLS). Secondly, the only thing I can see that it was actually designed to protect is Microsoft's cash flow. Finally, It appears to be just another lock-in tool enabling them to control what OS can run on every PC. Even if they released the code under the GPL and turned the key management over to a neutral third party, it would be a long time before I could accept it, but not at all under the current conditions.
38 • UEFI (by vmc on 2022-04-19 16:10:01 GMT from United States)
@37 "The UEFI standard was created by the UEFI consortium which consists of over 140 technology companies. UEFI was developed to allow support for new technologies during the booting process before the operating system loads It is based on the EFI 1.10 specification that was originally published by Intel®."
Microsoft does not control UEFI.
39 • Do I use BIOS or EFI/UEFI? (by Ted H in Minnesota on 2022-04-19 16:25:17 GMT from United States)
I have 10+ notebook computers. Most of them have BIOS, not EFI/UEFI on them.
I prefer to use BIOS computers, because in most cases they are adjustable to how I want them to boot, boot order etc, and it is straight-forward on how to do so!
EFI/UEFI, on the other hand, is a total mystery to me. Don't know how to set anything (if it's possible?) and have no idea what does what.
Ted H
40 • UEFI (by Bobbie Sellers on 2022-04-19 16:54:47 GMT from United States)
I have been using this for some time. I had problems understanding it at first of course.
You object to using FAT 32 but have no problem using the Microsoft Boot Record?
I fail to understand why you balk at FAT 32 but swallow the MBR..
As for Secure Boot turn it off. It is only a marketing device.
The new system of locking the Windows installed disk is easily defeated by using
either a proprietary partition manager or the partition manager on the Windows install.
The main problem is that when Windows receives Kernel updates, it will re-write the startup data. An easy way to avoid this is to avoid connecting Windows to the Internet and if you must run it install Windows to Virtual Box without internet access. If you must have updates maybe use a cheap machine to run nothing but Windows
There are plenty of documents both textual and video on the 'net to help you with using
UEFI.
You may have trouble with multiple Linux distributions on the same disk and again the answer
is to try them out in Virtual Box or other emulation machine.
bliss - brought to you by the power and ease of PCLinuxOS
and a minor case of hypergraphia
41 • Basic I/O System (by Justin on 2022-04-19 20:16:28 GMT from United States)
I use BIOS wherever I can. I have UEFI on one laptop because it's not possible to boot non-UEFI from the internal storage. Everything is easier with BIOS booting, especially multiboot. It's grub1/grub4dos, syslinux, isolinux, etc. were made for humans to work with. I never could get grub2 "configured" with the setup I wanted. I switched to rEFInd because the autodiscovery was able to overcome whatever grub2 couldn't for me. It's still not ideal, and I'd edit a menu.cfg file over the voodoo I had to do with UEFI.
I agree with @37: I think the only problem UEFI was really made to solve was Microsoft's loss of control on PC hardware. I have always found UEFI booting to be more complicated than is necessary, and at best I've only seen parity with BIOS. Whatever features and advantages there are, I have yet to need them.
42 • MBR is Master boot record (by Adam on 2022-04-19 22:14:00 GMT from Canada)
@40 just a fact-check, via quote from wiki "The concept of MBRs was publicly introduced in 1983 with [IBM] PC DOS 2.0. "
43 • BIOS (by Trihexagonal on 2022-04-19 23:53:23 GMT from United States)
All my computers are laptops from the Vista/Win7 era and have BIOS. Two of which are 32bit machines, one runs i386 FreeBSD and the other i386 Kali Linux, and both do so nicely.
I don't plan on ever upgrading to newer hardware.
44 • Legacy (by Debian- Manjaro user on 2022-04-20 09:17:15 GMT from United States)
Love my Legacy Bios
45 • MBR (by mdisaster on 2022-04-20 10:14:16 GMT from Italy)
A person can be perfectly able to carry sacks of gravel under the sun, and still not feel inclined to do so. Same logic applies to UEFI - next time I feel the urge to install Linux on a UEFI PC I'll make sure to allocate an inordinate amount of time to googling around for all the required tricks and hacks. In the mean time I'll be distro hopping on my legacy Linux-friendly machines.
46 • rEFInd (by AdamB on 2022-04-20 13:22:07 GMT from Australia)
Thanks to poster @15 for the link; the site "UEFI boot: how does that actually work, then?
" greatly improved my knowledge of how UEFI works, and led me to rEFInd, which, so far, looks like solving all my problems with multi-booting on UEFI machines.
No need to configure chainloading, as on BIOS/MBR machines.
rEFInd seems to honour the original kernel command line switches.
47 • @18 (Friar Tux) (by Stefan on 2022-04-20 20:11:03 GMT from Brazil)
>> We have the resources and technology to build products that don't die, yet we build them to deteriorate in a few years. No wonder our landfill sites are overflowing and consumer confidence is at an all time low. <<
Industrial trash piles are growing insanely higher in my country, too. Then I try to Reduce/Reuse/Recycle in a very conscious way. Regarding to computers, my attitude is doing a substantial UNDERCLOCK in both the CPU and RAM. It not only extends the lifetime of the hardware, but also saves energy.
Any computer will last too much when UNDERCLOCKED. BTW, nobody needs a superpowerful Ryzen 7 just to do trivial tasks like surfing the Web, managing e-mails, or editing texts/photos/videos. Only gamers should be "forgiven" for such a waste of resources.
Believe me: Overclocking is an ecological crime! It kills CPUs and RAMs by overheating them to death...
48 • waste/clocking etc (by Otis on 2022-04-20 23:07:05 GMT from United States)
@47 Sometimes I feel like we're sparrows pecking at the Rock of Gibralter with our efforts as individuals to recycle and use sustainable things, let alone underclocking to make computer hardware last longer. Heck I heard a lecture several years ago on the futility of individuals trying to make a difference in the face of corporate waste world wide (it used to just be the Americans, now corporate and government generated waste is on every continent).
In short, we'd have to have a HUGE cooperative effort at boycotting all corporations that pollute the environment and waste resources. Never going to happen. Look at us.
So... now we're watching as new tech is coming around to deal with the waste itself (rather than cause it to not happen in the first place).
49 • Zephix (by Chris on 2022-04-21 08:26:06 GMT from Luxembourg)
I saw that zephix has moved to
https://sourceforge.net/projects/zephix-linux/
Interesting project, will monitor. Thx for having shared here.
50 • Wasted (by Friar Tux on 2022-04-21 13:57:26 GMT from Canada)
@47 & @48... Corporate, and other waste will keep piling up, until someone figures out a way to seriously monetise the removal of it. It's the human way. Most people want quick convenience and don't think past the immediate NOW. This is why Microsoft and Apple are so profitable.
As for making your machine last longer, underclocking is great, especially, as @47 said, " just to do trivial tasks like surfing the Web, managing e-mails, or editing texts/photos/videos..." which is what 90% of us do. My laptop is on about 16 hours a day - it goes on at 6:30 am and goes down at 10:30 pm. It is my library (books, newspapers, magazines, technical journals), recipe box, encyclopedia, writer's tool (stories, poems, articles, etc.), graphic artist's tool (painting, drawing), communications device (talking to/messaging kith and kin), and much, much more. Yet, I still have and use my original laptop I got in, about, 2007. And it still works beautifully running an older version of Lubuntu/LXDE. You can tell, on it, which keys are most used and where my wrists rest which I type by the wear marks on the keyboard. The battery doesn't hold a charge anymore but who cares, it never leaves the house so it can stay plugged in. (When we had a desktop unit IT had to stay always plugged in. When we discovered laptops that desktop unit was donated to a university Computer Science student - NOT the landfill - with the promise to pass it on to another student when they were done with it. Hopefully, it's still making the rounds - maybe as an antique.)
51 • BIOS vs UEFI? (by penguinx86 on 2022-04-21 15:06:53 GMT from United States)
Many devices don't seem to have BIOS or UEFI: my Chromebook, my son's M1 MacBook, my daughter's iPad, my Android phone, my wife's iPhone and my Kindle Fire Tablet to name a few. All of these devices just boot to the GUI with no need to configure anything on a command line level. In fact, it's difficult to even get to a command line these devices. Is this the future of computing? Maybe the WinTel x86/64 architecture with BIOS/UEFI is going extinct?
52 • BIOS vs UEFI (by pengxuin on 2022-04-22 20:38:22 GMT from New Zealand)
@51 "Many devices don't seem to have BIOS or UEFI... In fact, it's difficult to even get to a command line these devices."
They have a BIOS, just not the same. It is just DNI to access after the system has been installed.
Number of Comments: 52
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| • Issue 1163 (2026-03-09): KaOS 2026.02, TinyCore 17.0, NuTyX 26.02.2, Would one big collection of packages help?, Guix offers 64-bit Hurd options, Linux communities discuss age delcaration laws, Mint unveils new screensaver for Cinnamon, Redox ports new COSMIC features |
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| • Issue 1127 (2025-06-23): LastOSLinux 2025-05-25, most unique Linux distro, Haiku stabilises, KDE publishes Plasma 6.4, Arch splits Plasma packages, Slackware infrastructure migrating |
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| • Issue 1125 (2025-06-09): RHEL 10, distributions likely to survive a decade, Murena partners with more hardware makers, GNOME tests its own distro on real hardware, Redox ports GTK and X11, Mint provides fingerprint authentication |
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| • Issue 1122 (2025-05-19): GoboLinux 017.01, RHEL 10.0 and Debian 12 updates, openSUSE retires YaST, running X11 apps on Wayland |
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| • Issue 1119 (2025-04-28): Ubuntu MATE 25.04, what is missing from Linux, CachyOS ships OCCT, Debian enters soft freeze, Fedora discusses removing X11 session from GNOME, Murena plans business services, NetBSD on a Wii |
| • Issue 1118 (2025-04-21): Fedora 42, strange characters in Vim, Nitrux introduces new package tools, Fedora extends reproducibility efforts, PINE64 updates multiple devices running Debian |
| • Issue 1117 (2025-04-14): Shebang 25.0, EndeavourOS 2025.03.19, running applications from other distros on the desktop, Debian gets APT upgrade, Mint introduces OEM options for LMDE, postmarketOS packages GNOME 48 and COSMIC, Redox testing USB support |
| • Issue 1116 (2025-04-07): The Sense HAT, Android and mobile operating systems, FreeBSD improves on laptops, openSUSE publishes many new updates, Fedora appoints new Project Leader, UBports testing VoLTE |
| • Issue 1115 (2025-03-31): GrapheneOS 2025, the rise of portable package formats, MidnightBSD and openSUSE experiment with new package management features, Plank dock reborn, key infrastructure projects lose funding, postmarketOS to focus on reliability |
| • Issue 1114 (2025-03-24): Bazzite 41, checking which processes are writing to disk, Rocky unveils new Hardened branch, GNOME 48 released, generating images for the Raspberry Pi |
| • Issue 1113 (2025-03-17): MocaccinoOS 1.8.1, how to contribute to open source, Murena extends on-line installer, Garuda tests COSMIC edition, Ubuntu to replace coreutils with Rust alternatives, Chimera Linux drops RISC-V builds |
| • Issue 1112 (2025-03-10): Solus 4.7, distros which work with Secure Boot, UBports publishes bug fix, postmarketOS considers a new name, Debian running on Android |
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