 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 947, 13 December 2021 |
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Welcome to this year's 49th issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
The Linux ecosystem is a diverse place with lots of competing designs and approaches. Sometimes we want to be able to run one distribution while also wishing we could borrow elements from another. There are a number of solutions geared toward solving this problem, including virtual machines and meta-distributions like Bedrock Linux. This week we take a look at a different approach, called JuNest, which allows the user to run a private copy of Arch Linux on another distribution. This allows the user to effectively run Arch and be the root user of the Arch system while being a regular user on the host distribution. Our Feature Story offers details on setting up and running JuNest. In our News section we talk about Wayland being adopted as the default display server for Fedora, even when the system is using NVIDIA video cards. We also talk about Zorin OS launching an updated Lite edition for older computers and Haiku updating filesystem drivers and remote access tools. As Linux continues to advance and take on new capabilities it expands its audience and market share. In this week's Questions and Answers column we address the question of whether we've reached the fabled "year of the Linux desktop". Do you think we've reached this milestone? Let us know what you believe in our Opinion Poll. Finally, we are pleased to share the releases of the past week and list the torrents we are seeding. We wish you all a wonderful week and happy reading!
Content:
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (14MB) and MP3 (10MB) formats.
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
JuNest
One interesting project that has been sitting on the DistroWatch waiting list for a few years is Jailed User NEST (JuNest). The project's documentation describes itself as follows:
JuNest (Jailed User NEST) is a lightweight Arch Linux based distribution that allows [users] to have disposable and partial isolated GNU/Linux environments within any generic GNU/Linux host OS and without the need to have root privileges for installing packages.
JuNest contains mainly the package manager (called pacman) that allows access to a wide range of packages from the Arch Linux repositories.
The main advantages of using JuNest are:
- Install packages without root privileges.
- Partial isolated environment in which you can install packages without affecting a production system.
- Access to a wide range of packages, in particular on GNU/Linux distros that may contain limited repositories (such as CentOS and Red Hat).
- Available for x86_64 and ARM architectures, but you can build your own image from scratch too!
- Run on a different architecture from the host OS via QEMU.
- All Arch Linux lovers can have their favourite distro everywhere!
The purpose of JuNest is not to build a complete isolated environment but, conversely, is the ability to run programs as [if] they were running natively from the host OS. Almost everything is shared between host OS and the JuNest sandbox (kernel, process subtree, network, mounting, etc) and only the root filesystem gets isolated (since the programs installed in JuNest need to reside elsewhere).
While JuNest refers to itself as a distribution, it's not a Linux distribution in the usual sense. In fact, I'd hesitate to refer to it as a distribution at all. The project does not provide a stand-alone operating system you can install from scratch the way you could Debian, Fedora, or Ubuntu. To run JuNest we first need to have a host Linux distribution installed and running. JuNest also doesn't provide its own kernel (ie. it does not distribute Linux), JuNest relies on the host operating system's kernel. In this way, JuNest is more akin to a type of container or virtual environment which is added onto an existing distribution rather than its own Linux-based distribution. It might be better considered a meta-distribution in a similar vein to Bedrock Linux.
I decided to try installing JuNest on a copy of openSUSE Leap. This, I figured, would provide me with a stable, openSUSE base while testing JuNest's ability to run cutting-edge software from Arch Linux. Setting up JuNest requires the host system to have bash, GNU Coreutils, and git installed. The first two are usually pre-installed on almost every Linux distribution while git is present in most distributions' repositories.
Installing
Installing JuNest is fairly straight forward. We can accomplish the set up with four commands. First, we grab a copy of the JuNest GitHub repository:
git clone git://github.com/fsquillace/junest
Then we set up local path information. This allows JuNest to find its tools (from the GitHub repository) and its isolated environment which is, by default, stored under ~/.junest.
export PATH=~/junest/bin:$PATH
export PATH="$PATH:~/.junest/usr/bin_wrappers"
The two above lines should be added to your shell's start-up configuration in order to make sure we can use JuNest the next time we sign into our account. Finally, we run a command to pull in some Arch Linux files and set up the environment:
junest setup
At this point we have a minimal Arch Linux environment installed on our system under our home directory. We can use this core collection of Arch tools in a few different ways.
First impressions of JuNest
The first thing I noticed about running JuNest was that I could access the Arch-based environment by simply running "junest". This would give me an Arch bash prompt and seemed to effectively log me in as a regular user to the JuNest/Arch environment. I could run commands that were installed in the JuNest directory. I still had access to the files on my openSUSE host system, but could also run commands as though I were running a minimal Arch system.
In a small variation of this experience, if I had run "junest -f" I would be logged into the JuNest/Arch environment, but with a fakeroot account. This basically meant that, as far as the Arch environment was concerned, I was the root user and could perform administrative tasks, such as installing new software. Usually this does not seem to be necessary as I'll talk about later, but it's nice to know the "fake root" experience is available.
At this point, from my virtual terminal on openSUSE, I could run commands from either environment. For instance, I could run "sudo zypper update" to bring my openSUSE host up to date with new software packages. I could also run "pacman -Syu" to update my JuNest environment. Both commands could be run from the comfort of the same terminal window. I could also install new packages in the JuNest environment from Arch's repositories.
As an example, my copy of openSUSE did not ship with the Nano text editor, nor did the JuNest minimal environment. I corrected this by running "pacman -S nano", which installed the Arch Nano package into JuNest. I could then run "nano text-file" to create a new text file in my home directory. I could access and edit this file using native openSUSE applications or tools in the JuNest jailed environment.
This approach to seamlessly running programs from two separate environments feels similar to running Bedrock Linux which I talked about in a previous article. The main difference is Bedrock works with multiple different distributions, not just Arch. Bedrock is more flexible, but also requires more effort to set up and maintain. JuNest is specific to Arch (at the moment) and requires minimal effort to set up and maintain.
What about GUI applications?
At this point you might be thinking that having a jailed, Arch-based environment for testing software might sound cool, but does it only work for command line programs? Usually, if we want to run cutting edge software, we're more interested in desktop applications than command line tools. At least this was my main focus.
Running KWrite from the JuNest environment
(full image size: 614kB, resolution: 1,125x863 pixels)
I installed a couple of desktop applications using the pacman package manager and tried out a few. For the most part, desktop applications installed inside JuNest ran seamlessly. Installing and running programs like KWrite or other simple graphical applications worked just as if they were running natively.
I did run into an issue when I tried a heavier application. Specifically, trying to run the Falkon web browser from the openSUSE command line did not work and reported an error saying the browser could not be run without the "--no-sandbox" flag set. This issue could be worked around by first running "junest" to launch the jailed environment and then launching Falkon from the JuNest shell. This is a minor workaround and functioned quite well, allowing Falkon to see and save files in my openSUSE user's home directory.
Running the Falkon browser from JuNest
(full image size: 525kB, resolution: 1,125x863 pixels)
Conclusions
I found the JuNest software to be one of those rare gems that does exactly what it sets out to do, no more or less. The JuNest project gives us the ability to set up a semi-isolated Arch Linux environment in a jail. The software allows us to install and run software from the Arch repositories without contaminating our host operating system. This essentially gives us access to an Arch Linux environment without the overhead of a virtual machine. It also means we can use Arch applications on our desktop and share files between our host system and the JuNest jail seamlessly.
I did run into some errors with more complex applications, but those were easy enough to work around by simply running the junest command to access the jail's namespace.
All in all, I like JuNest. It may not be a full Linux distribution, like those we usual cover here, but it does provide a helpful way to run cutting edge Arch software from within an existing Linux distribution with minimal overhead or maintenance. The fact we can manage the JuNest environment and install additional software from Arch's repositories without administrative access also makes this a very handy tool for situations where we are working in a restrictive environment.
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I'd like to thank Shells.com for donating the openSUSE test environment I was running this week. It allowed me to perform longer computing operations while travelling without interrupting what I was doing.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
Fedora to adopt Wayland as default display server for NVIDIA cards, Zorin OS releases Lite edition, Haiku improves filesystem drivers
The Fedora project uses Wayland as its default display software for its Workstation edition, except when the operating system is running on an NVIDIA video card. There is a plan to adopt Wayland as the default display server for all situations, including when using NVIDIA drivers in Fedora 36. Ben Cotton offered a summary of the situation: "Recent updates in NVIDIA proprietary driver allow Xwayland to benefit from hardware acceleration and X11 applications can have their rendering hardware accelerated. That allowed to enable Wayland sessions even when the NVIDIA proprietary driver is used, but keeping Xorg the default in that case. This proposal is to make Wayland by default with newer versions of the NVIDIA proprietary driver to remain consistent with other drivers."
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The Zorin OS distribution is an Ubuntu-based project which provides a beginner-friendly desktop operating system. Zorin OS is intended to feel familiar to people coming from a Windows environment. The developers have released a new set of Lite editions for version 16 of the distribution. "Today, we're excited to announce the release of Zorin OS 16 Lite. It condenses the full Zorin OS 16 experience into a streamlined operating system, designed to run on low-spec computers as old as 15 years. We believe this is more important than ever, after the obsolescence of older PCs in Windows 11 during a global chip shortage. By pairing the most advanced and efficient software with a user-friendly experience, we've made it possible for anyone to extend the lifespan of their computers for years to come." Additional information can be found in the project's announcement and ISO files can be found on the project's download page.
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The Haiku team have been at work improving their operating system's tools. In particularly, Haiku is becoming more capable of interacting with Windows technology. Updated NTFS and FAT filesystem drivers have been merged into the Haiku code and a remote desktop client has been fixed to work with modern versions of Windows. "I saw a commenter on a forum lamenting that they could not connect to some Windows machines via RDP from Haiku; none of the tools they installed seemed to work. I remembered we had a FreeRDP port, but indeed it was a few years out of date, so I spent about half a day cleaning up the port and bringing it in line with the latest version. (The port is 'Haiku-native', and unfortunately not upstreamed, so things had diverged somewhat in the newer version.)" Additional information can be found in the project's blog post.
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
When is the year of the Linux desktop?
Any-day-now asks: After 30 years, and millions of Linux deployments, do you think that 2021 is finally the year of the Linux desktop?
DistroWatch answers: I suppose whether we've reached the "year of the Linux desktop" depends on how you define the term. Perhaps even more importantly, it depends on who is answering the question.
If you define the "year of the Linux desktop" as the point where a Linux distribution can handle all of the tasks a person needs from their desktop or laptop machine, then the answer will depend on who you ask. Linux has handled all my computing needs (and done so better than the alternatives) since about 2003. Some of my more technologically minded friends transitioned around 2005. Several of my family and friends who are better described as "average computer users" were able to make the transition to Linux for their computing needs about a decade ago. For each of us the point when Linux became the best option for home computing happened at a different time, but it did happen for each of us.
However, if you asked someone who is heavily into modern gaming or who needs a specific, Windows-only application for office work, then the "year of the Linux desktop" hasn't happened yet.
Personally, I define the "year of the Linux desktop" differently. To me it means a point in time when it's possible to walk into any local personal computer retailer and see Linux offered pre-installed on computers alongside (or in place of) commercial operating systems like Windows. Where I live that day hasn't come yet. Every local retailer I checked with sells computers with Windows exclusively. Some shops I questioned said they would be willing to sell me a computer without an operating system pre-installed, but though they had heard of Linux, they didn't have any experience with installing it or fixing Linux-relating issues.
People who live in other parts of the world may have better retail access to computers running Linux or live in areas where Linux is supported by local tech shops. In which case the "year of the Linux desktop" has arrived for them, but sadly not for me.
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Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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| Released Last Week |
Freespire 8.0
Roberto Dohnert has announced the release of Freespire 8.0, the latest update of the project's Ubuntu-based distribution featuring the Xfce desktop. The new version continues to be based on Ubuntu's latest long-term support release, version 20.04: "Today, the PC/OpenSystems LLC FOSS development team has released Freespire 8.0, an update which delivers much needed system enhancements and security fixes. Once again we have let users decide; they have spoken and we have included all the most-requested Google services - Calendar, Docs and Gmail. For more traditional use cases, Freespire core has not changed at all - it's still a full-featured desktop OS, with all of the applications and resources of the Ubuntu repositories available as always. Freespire does not incorporate any proprietary media codecs and aside from Google Chrome, there are no other vendor-specific software applications pre-installed at all. Freespire 8.0 features a new stable kernel which fixes bugs and broadens hardware support. Google Chrome 96 includes security patches and other general browser improvements. We have upgraded Xfce 4.16, X11, Samba and other system fundamentals, including non-UEFI and secure boot systems." Here is the full release announcement with screenshots.
Freespire 8.0 -- Running the Xfce desktop
(full image size: 3.4MB, resolution: 2560x1600 pixels)
Tails 4.25
The Amnesic Incognito Live System (Tails) is a Debian-based live DVD/USB with the goal of providing complete Internet anonymity for the user. The project's latest release is Tails 4.25 introduces a number of package updates for key components. It also features a backup utility to copy important files in persistent storage to a thumb drive. "We added a utility to make a backup of the Persistent Storage to another Tails USB stick. This utility automates the process described until now in our documentation on making a backup of your Persistent Storage, which used the command line. It's pretty basic and we still want to do something better in #7049, but we didn't want to wait more because we know that backups are a big issue for our users. External Hard Disk - we added a new entry called Tails (External Hard Disk) to the GRUB boot loader. Changes and updates: update Tor Browser to 11.0.2; update Tor to 0.4.6.8; add a shortcut to restart Tails when the Unsafe Browser was not enabled in the Welcome Screen; add a link from the error screen of the Tor Connection assistant to our documentation on troubleshooting connecting to Tor." Additional details can be found in the release announcement.
FreeBSD 12.3
The FreeBSD team has announced the availability of the third update to the operating system's 12.x branch. FreeBSD 12.3 includes several bug fixes to the kernel, userland updates, and improvements to network drivers. The project's release announcement reports: "The FreeBSD Release Engineering team is pleased to announce the availability of FreeBSD 12.3-RELEASE. This is the fourth release of the stable/12 branch. Some of the highlights: updates to various networking drivers; several updates to upstream contributed software; several userland application improvements and kernel bug fixes. For a complete list of new features and known problems, please see the online release notes and errata list. The FreeBSD Project dedicates the FreeBSD 12.3-RELEASE to the memory of Ian Lepore. FreeBSD 12.3-RELEASE is now available for the amd64, i386, powerpc, powerpc64, sparc64, armv6, armv7 and aarch64 architectures. FreeBSD 12.3-RELEASE can be installed from bootable ISO images or over the network. Some architectures also support installing from a USB memory stick." The release notes provide a list of fixes in this release along with their security advisories.
Calculate Linux 22
Calculate Linux is a Gentoo-based distribution with several desktop editions, a cloud edition, and server edition. The project has published a new version, Calculate 22: "We are pleased to announce the release of Calculate Linux 22. With this new version, you will be able to smoothly update your system after a long period of time. We also ported the Calculate Utilities to Python 3, and set PipeWire as the default sound server. Calculate Linux Desktop featuring the KDE (CLD), Cinnamon (CLDC), LXQt (CLDL), Mate (CLDM) or Xfce (CLDX and CLDXS) desktop, Calculate Directory Server (CDS), Calculate Linux Scratch (CLS) and Calculate Scratch Server (CSS) are now available for download. Changes: Added support for long intervals between systems updates. Now you can upgrade whenever you want, even if you have not updated your system for a long time. The latest Calculate Utils 3.7 were fully transitioned to Python 3, and Python 2.7 removed from the distribution image. PulseAudio audio was replaced by PipeWire. You can also still select ALSA if this is what you prefer. Added Bluetooth support for ALSA." Additional information and screenshots can be found in the project's release announcement.
Kali Linux 2021.4
Kali Linux is a Debian-based distribution with a collection of security and forensics tools. The project has published a new release, Kali Linux 2021.4, which improves support for ARM-powered devices, including Apple M1 machines and the Raspberry Pi Zero 2. "With the end of 2021 just around the corner, we are pushing out the last release of the year with Kali Linux 2021.4, which is ready for immediate download or updating. The summary of the changelog since the 2021.3 release from September 2021 is: Improved Apple M1 support. Wide compatibility for Samba. Switching package manager mirrors. Kaboxer theming. Updates to Xfce, GNOME and KDE. Raspberry Pi Zero 2 W + USBArmory MkII ARM images. More tools. Kali on the Apple M1: As we announced in Kali 2021.1 we supported installing Kali Linux on Parallels on Apple Silicon Macs, well with 2021.4, we now also support it on the VMware Fusion Public Tech Preview thanks to the 5.14 kernel having the modules needed for the virtual GPU used." Additional information is provided in the project's release announcement.
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 2,661
- Total data uploaded: 41.2TB
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) |
Have we reached the year of the Linux desktop?
In this week's Questions and Answers column we explored the concept of "the year of the Linux desktop", a nebulous idea which means different things to different people. Do you feel Linux distribution have reached a level where they meet your criteria for "the year of the Linux desktop", or do you believe we're not there yet? Let us know what your criteria is for reaching this milestone in the comments.
You can see the results of our previous poll on running a local firewall in last week's edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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Have we reached the year of the Linux desktop?
| Yes: | 565 (33%) |
| No: | 1148 (67%) |
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| Website News |
New distributions added to waiting list
- XeroLinux. XeroLinux is an Arch-based distribution featuring the KDE Plasma desktop.
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DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 20 December 2021. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Article Search page. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Year of Linux Desktop (by Dave on 2021-12-13 01:32:40 GMT from United States)
I really like Linux and ran it as my main desktop computing environment for several years, but Linux is now secondary to MacOS as a daily driver. There are just too many applications need or want to use that aren’t available on Linux. One of the reasons I use a Mac is because after those years of Linux, I realized how awful Windows is and couldn’t bring myself to go back to it.
I keep watching Linux though. As much as people complain about Electron, it’s bringing more and more software to Linux because it makes cross-platform so easy. And there appear to be others on the way.
2 • Poll: Year of Linux Desktop (by Otis on 2021-12-13 01:40:35 GMT from United States)
Of course we have not reached such a point, and will not as long as Microsoft's war lords continue to use scorched earth marketing tactics. They simply will not allow competition in the retail market place. Think back to when for a few short years we saw linux distro CD boxed sets alongside Windows boxed sets. That was in the 90s and then it went away when Gates and company began his shelf space hoarding and other methods.
Linux computers? A few here and there.. but nothing like Windows as the OEM on nearly everything not Mac.
3 • my linux desktop year was... (by tom joad on 2021-12-13 01:46:30 GMT from Germany)
My Linux desktop year was...2006 and Ubuntu. And I haven't looked back. Here and staying here.
4 • Linux desktop (by cor on 2021-12-13 02:23:03 GMT from United States)
It's on all PC/Laptops in my home. No Windows anywhere around here. Linux has been my desktop for 20 years.
5 • Year of Linux Desktop (by Sam Crawford on 2021-12-13 03:16:07 GMT from United States)
Debian stable with VMWare and Windows 11 for Quickbooks and Quicken.
Debian is stable, takes little maintenance when set up properly and just works. Windows still has a few programs that don't run anywhere else.
However, I don't think my dad would be able to make this work. He uses a Mac and it works great for him.
6 • Windows exclusivity (by Wedge009 on 2021-12-13 03:19:48 GMT from Australia)
'Every local retailer I checked with sells computers with Windows exclusively.'
It is much the same for me. Ever since I've assembled my own PCs, of course I have the freedom to choose what OS I will use. But for laptops I've had to make do with pre-built systems and unless I'm buying second-hand, they have always come with Windows. Until that monopoly is removed there won't be any real competition in the already-dwindling PC market (as most average users move from laptops to 'smart' phones).
7 • Year of Desktop Linux (by Bobbie Sellers on 2021-12-13 03:30:46 GMT from United States)
Well Linux is what I have been using for over 15 years.
Windows should offer plenty of reasons for personal users to switch to Linux but the office
workers who must use Windows because the IT dept. demands that will never be able
to switch even though they can run Windows at home in a VirtualBox because not being
true users they find it difficult to live with a system that offers them choices in in when they will update, as well as all the other Linux choices.
Linux does take some learning and that is what people seem to hate to do. I came to Mandriva after managing my Amiga for about 10 years & before that I had 8 bit Commodore computers. I had a brief interlude with XP which was nearly usable and as a matter of fact
let me burn Linux iso files onto CDs for the switchover.
bliss - brought to you by the power and ease of PCLinuxOS
and a minor case of hypergraphia
8 • Year of Desktop Linux (by marty on 2021-12-13 04:05:52 GMT from United States)
Been using Linux since Mint 18.3 and haven't had problems with crashes or regressions when updating. Now on Mint 20 there is really not a lot of learning curve when moving to newer releases, it doesn't have the shock value when making the change and learning the system like there was when moving from Win7 to Win10. After digging around a bit on the new Mint releases I find there is still the former release still living inside the new offering, but embellished more; basically though the OS still mostly works the same, so Linux remains rather consistent.
9 • 2006 (by uz64 on 2021-12-13 04:15:05 GMT from United States)
That was the year of Linux on the desktop. After about two years of dual booting, distro hopping and learning, 2006 was the year I wiped my hard drive, re-partioned and installed Zenwalk exclusively in a single-boot setup.
I have a Windows partition that's never really used on my laptop, for those very few, rare things that you do need Windows for. Specifically, updating the firmware for game controllers and running certain two-way radio programming software. I will probably get a gaming PC at some point which will run Windows for obvious reasons and may remove Windows from my laptop as it would be unnecessary, but for me... Linux everywhere else. I am not in a hurry to go all-out on a souped-up gaming PC though, as I reserved a Steam Deck and I'm excited to give it a try with its new version of Steam OS.
10 • Year of Desktop Linux (by Sinul on 2021-12-13 04:24:28 GMT from United States)
I've been using Linux, together with Windows for 25+ years, added macOS to the list 3 years ago and I still don't feel Linux is ready for real world non tech people desktop use.
11 • Year of Desktop Linux (by Jyrki on 2021-12-13 04:41:42 GMT from Czechia)
Yes, we did. I've been running Linux on desktop for almost 2 decades. However, I am not a BFU. But years ago I started to install linux on desktop of my family members friends, colleagues. And they keep on using it. So yes, we have reached the point.
12 • Year of Linux desktop (by Дмитрий on 2021-12-13 05:28:53 GMT from Russia)
This year could be at least the year of Linux for my mom and her new laptop. Alas, Linux still has bugs dated back to 2010, which no one fixes because no one cares. People at home rarely pay for Linux, so there's no motivation to fix and do real stuff. Instead, a couple weeks back we've got a new desktop environment, yay. I closely watch Linux since 2011 and I only see things not necessarily getting worse but more apathetic, as well as the rest of the IT industry. Of course, if you are an active user, always new version of this, new feature in that, than yes, your year of Linux has come already, but from my point of view it's never going to happen until big companies will be interested in delivering users high quality Linux experience, preferably for free.
13 • 2001 was my year of the Linux desktop (by Microlinux on 2021-12-13 06:13:44 GMT from France)
Back in early 2001 I setup a dual boot Windows 98 / Slackware Linux 7.1. Windows' antivirus software identified my LILO bootloader as a virus and wiped it, effectively nuking my whole system. I was so angry I decided to get rid of Windows for good. So I decided to go 100 % GNU/Linux and learning everything I needed for my everyday tasks. Twenty years later, I have my own IT consulting firm with a focus on Linux and free software.
14 • Year of Linux (by Alexandru on 2021-12-13 06:43:42 GMT from Romania)
I define the Year of Linux to include:
- Applications for almost every task are available on Linux,
- Drivers for almost all hardware are available in Linux,
- Every new IT technology appears, it is available in Linux.
For me, the Year of Linux happened in 2005.
15 • waiting list Xerol Linux (by always curious about FOSS on 2021-12-13 07:51:55 GMT from Germany)
Xerol Linux describes itself as an "eyecandy lover's wet dream". Well I like desktop eyecandy. Those screenshoots glued my eyes. So I tried the ISO. The settings of the Latte dock were not intuitive. The Latte dock on the top covered the opened windows.
The saving of the paraphase for wpa2 wireless conection doesn't work. So the system asked after every reboot for the wpa2 paraphase again.
Thus, the desktop application made a rather unsteady impression on me.
As a plus point I can name the lot of installed programs, especially the preinstalled brave browser was a positive surprise.
And there is a small masterpiece: the configuration of the console terminal and and very good list of aliases in the .bashrc file.
Just looking at the really well-designed .bashrc file is worth testing the ISO.
16 • Linux Desktop (by Marc on 2021-12-13 07:52:49 GMT from United Kingdom)
We haven't reached the year of the Linux Desktop, and I don't think that we will.
I'm happy with it, but corporate inertia will stop those few vital programs being made available.
On the other hand, the year of the Android was some time ago.
17 • YotLD (by trilobyte on 2021-12-13 07:58:31 GMT from Sweden)
The mythical Year of the Linux Desktop (YotLD) will never happen. Mass computing has long since moved away from the 'kitchen appliance model', where you go to the computer to use it. That market has long since gone mobile.
On the desktop, Microsoft and Windows is so entrenched and ubiquitous that punters must go seriously out of their way to acquire a non-Windows computer. In the corporate world, Windows IS to all intents and purposes the basic IT-infrastructure. Given Microsoft's dominance in the market and its ruthless exploitation of this position, this situation is unlikely to change any time soon.
Evangelizing Linux to the average user is a losing battle (believe me, I've tried), as 98% of private users are either gamers or people who care more about convenience than privacy. Whether game publishers moving to on-line platforms will change anything remains to be seen.
The idea of Linux wrestling the desktop from Microsoft is unrealistic in the current circumstances. Get over it (i.e. forget YotLD) and enjoy that Linux won the mobile market - although Google's stewardship of Android is only slightly less worrying than a Microsoft dominance would be.
18 • Year of Linux desktop (by Tumbo on 2021-12-13 08:09:04 GMT from Bulgaria)
Linux desktop user since year 2000. Honestly, over the past years, Linux had more chances to have its year of the desktop. Nowadays I get more pessimistic, for this chance is fading, as the gap in desktop oriented technologies between Windows and Linux rapidly widens in favor of Windows - there is much more in quantity sophisticated desktop software & games, VR/AR, collaboration platforms, WSL - the Linux DE nullifier, forthcoming Meta... But if Microsoft miraculously disappears overnight, well, certainly Linux will reach a point in future to celebrate its first year on desktop.
19 • Year of the Linux Desktop (by Trevor on 2021-12-13 08:10:55 GMT from Canada)
I have heard this term since I came over from Windows almost 20 years ago. Every time I hear that phrase I think, "Does it really matter?" This form of OS isn't for everyone - let's face it. It's not 'set it and forget it' - and that's what most of the general public want (regretfully). This OS will always have its quirks - and that's why I use Linux (it has a human quality to it). I don't mind dealing with problems - so long as I can get the needed help - whether that be from Forums, online/offline documentation, etc. I prefer to think when using an OS - rather than 'having my mind cruise lazily along' using it.
20 • Year of Linux Desktop (by always curious about FOSS on 2021-12-13 08:30:28 GMT from Germany)
For myself every year is a great year of the linux Desktop. Its still common that practically all computers sold have windows installed. The search criterion without operating system or also Freedos is the search for the needle in the haystack. To buy a computer with Linux preinstalled you must have won the lottery before.
So the Linux Desktop is still for the intrepid fighters who never give up.
I guess The real issue is the question if this decade is the end of the desktop itself. Young people today doing everything with their cinema for mouses aka smartphone.
So if there is a shrinking market for desktops i could imagine that microsoft changes to make their money with the cloud and let linux the tool to get to their cloud.
21 • Year of Linux Desktop (by Wim Herremans on 2021-12-13 08:50:35 GMT from Belgium)
I voted "yes" to the question "Have we reached the year of the Linux desktop?".
Of course, the Linux desktop has still much less users than the commercial alternatives.
For me personally, the year of the Linux desktop already arrived as early as 1998.
22 • Year of Linux Desktop (by borgio3 on 2021-12-13 09:10:44 GMT from Italy)
The Year of Linux is hopelessly loss. 2011 was the year of Linux desktop, but wrong choices regarding the Desktop Environment (Gnome 3, Unity, KDE 4) have sanctioned the end of any possibility of breaking into the desktop world.
If a computer retailer wanted to offer Linux computers, which distro would be most useful to a general public? Many say Ubuntu, others Mint, others Fedora, others Arch, not to mention Debian and derivatives. We all know what the difficulties are in giving support to those who know nothing about it, then? Linux is a puzzle without limits and boundaries and that's the good and bad of Linux itself.
23 • Year of the Linux Desktop (by OneHue on 2021-12-13 09:32:54 GMT from Mali)
Linux was born on a desktop. Its intendent purpose was to run on a desktop. And it nearly achieved that for me in 2016 with Linux Mint in a beefy laptop with VirtualBox giving access to Windows and Office. Since then, Linux is in decline. People going Mac and software like LibreOffice being more and more irrelevant compared to Microsoft Office. Now Linux desktop is marketed toward backend programmers (services development and orchestration and AI/ML on servers).
What we need to do is to push Microsoft to port Office on Linux, like exactly what it did for Apple in the past. Or develop a killer app for personal computing like mobile money and a payment system with virtual generated on payment VISA cards, or auto crypted messenger / mailing (calendar, todo and contact) app based on an strong infrastructure. And put all of this on a hybrid laptop (the screen is a tablet) with long battery life that can run the distribution smoothly and perfectly with no glitches or stuttering or tearing, or Bluetooth and audio sorcery. I’m sure, people will pay for that.
Mark Shuttleworth, if you are reading DW, you already have the infrastructure (Ubuntu One) and the experience (Thawte), just pivot and we are all set again !
24 • Year of Linux Desktop (by Mike S on 2021-12-13 10:16:35 GMT from United Kingdom)
I fear that will never happen because the freedom of choice we all love here leads to fragmentation of DE development. There's also the elitism of certain user groups (some snarky developers and package maintainers too) and the prevailing geeky image of Linux.
A lot of Linux distributions are not for profit community orientated and started as personal pet projects or hobbies because the originator didn't like the way X or Y were doing something. As such they do not have the professional paid (as in properly qualified and wage) support infrastructure most corporations and a lot of end users expect coming from Windows or Mac.
The ones that do offer and charge for professional support are often seen as toxic by the Linux community and as not truly contributing anything constructive or corrupting it with controversial code among older users who don't like change (systemd, snapd)
Then there's the obvious marketing and product placement clout of Microsoft and Apple that Linux distributions can never match or enjoy.
A few Lenovo, HP or Dell machines shipping with Ubuntu is a token gesture at best. The specialists who sell Linux only laptops and desktops that they assemble themselves charge way over the odds because they have to and then risk going out of business by going too niche (StarLab...)
The volumes of units sold are too low for them to be able to bulk order parts to get the discounts needed to keep them competitively priced for end users.
25 • In the year 2525... (by Torsten on 2021-12-13 10:23:02 GMT from Germany)
The year of the Linux desktop is in the year 2525....;-)
26 • Year of the Linux desktop (by Woodstock69 on 2021-12-13 10:37:16 GMT from Australia)
We have not reached the YLD, and probably never will. And I'm fine with that. Linux is too disjointed and it's difficult for a store owner to provide support for pre-built systems, in general. And again I'm fine with that. I can roll my own. And my family and friends have me to support them if need be.
I've been a Linux nut since the early days of Mandrake Linux and MEPIS Linux, spun through seemingly endless re-installs of Kubuntu, openSuSE, PCLinuxOS and have finally (?) settled on Manjaro to enter the world of rolling releases.
All my gaming is satisfied by WINE and for everything else that doesn't work, there's VirtualBox (extremely rare I use it now-a-days).
If you need stability, reliability, or an excuse to tear your hair out, you'll find a way and version of Linux to install. So, Year of the Linux desktop? Who cares. :-)
27 • YoLD (by Quazatron on 2021-12-13 11:00:40 GMT from Portugal)
I used to care about that, but not anymore. You'll never see Linux Desktop pre-installed on common store sold computers unless some fictional company decides to take on Microsoft. But where is the financial incentive in owning the desktop market? It is simply not there.
Maybe Google manages to push Android to the average desktop (doubt it), maybe Valve manages to make Linux gaming good enough or better than Windows (nearly there!), but I don't think any of this will change the global status quo.
Just ignore it, enjoy your own experience.
28 • YotLD (by Mark B on 2021-12-13 11:32:35 GMT from United Kingdom)
@24 - Your description of the state of the Linux desktop is absolutely spot-on and eloquently put. My daily workhorse is Mint 20.2 MATE which I love and use for ALMOST everything. However, I sometimes have to switch to Windows (10 or 7) to be able to do something that I can't do on Mint. I am careful to use applications that serve me well on both platforms e.g LibreOffice, Audacity, Filezilla, Firefox, darktable, Rawtherapee, Skype, Thunderbird etc. That said, masses & masses of software applications are written for only Windows and MacOS. I take my hat off to companies making stuff like Bitwig Studio (DAW) which IS available for Linux.
My guess is that most visitors to Distrowatch could describe their ideal Linux distro but nobody is ever going to create it.
29 • First let's define what we mean (by carugma on 2021-12-13 11:44:24 GMT from Argentina)
What the Year of Linux Desktop mean ?
If it means the year that Linux Desktop is good or better than other desktops, that was achieved already some time ago.
If it mean the year that the masses adopt Linux Desktop, I think perhaps that never will happen, because commercial desktops have money to make people think their products are better.
Besides, Linux is so fragmented that people simply will not enter that world of complexity.
Anyway, why is it important at all ?
At least nowadays many of the important desktop applications runs in all operating systems, including Linux desktop.
30 • Have we reached the year of the Linux desktop? (by James on 2021-12-13 11:49:16 GMT from United States)
No, and we probably never will.
One is there is no way Linux can compete with Apple or Microsoft in advertising. The average Windows user doesn't even know Linux exists. Windows is to "built in" to our society, and most people eschew change. Linux needs a universal package manager, and appimage, flatpaks and snaps are only muddying the water.
Now I am a causal user, have no trouble using Linux and will use Linux as long as both I and Linux exists. I bought a Linux laptop preinstalled with Gnome, and wiped it and install a Mate LTS version. So I want a computer made for Linux (core boot) but I also want the freedom to chose the OS I want, so unless the manufacturer is willing to do that for me, it is not a deciding factor.
31 • Yes, no, maybe, it's up to your point of view (by YoLD? on 2021-12-13 12:04:31 GMT from Italy)
I agree with article's approach. Are you fine with Linux right now? Good. Aren't you? Never mind. I don't think we might grant an official statement for eveybody, because everybody's different. There are surely many people not being able to stick to Windows, too...
I can say for sure it's never going to be YoLD until you're entitled to say "this thing is working with either Windows or macOS as easy and good as it's doing with Linux, no matter what the thing is", a target we're way too far from. But I don't cry for that, MS-free since 2003 out of my company's equipments. I'm not able again to do "very" everything I want with Linux the straight way, but I kept finding some shortcuts.
32 • Year of Linux (by Romane on 2021-12-13 12:32:06 GMT from Australia)
I voted no.
Have been running Linux as my (only) and primary operating system for about a dozen years, and quite content and happy with it. The system is developing and moving forward quite well - but that is merely my personal opinion.
But no, not the year of Linux. That, I feel, has some way to go. I'm with Jesse when he says:
"To me it means a point in time when it's possible to walk into any local personal computer retailer and see Linux offered pre-installed on computers alongside (or in place of) commercial operating systems like Windows."
Almost everyone I know runs Windows. Any suggestion to even try Linux is always rebuffed, sometimes gently, sometimes not. So far as they are concerned, it is Windows or Apple (which likewise has its solid and unshakeable following). Linux, to them, is something "shady and uncouth", and not be be touched.
A thing called brand loyalty. Or, if one prefers, if it ain't broke, why fix it?
33 • Year of the Linux Desktop (by DachshundMan on 2021-12-13 12:54:37 GMT from United Kingdom)
The year of the Linux Desktop would arrive when Linux installations match or exceed Windows installations which in my view will be never.
It used to be said "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" and corporately Windows is like that, the no risk choice for the decision makers. For a user the integration of all the tools that are needed for day to day work in Windows, EG Office, Teams, Outlook, OneDrive, Sharepoint etc, is too convenient compared with the Linux situation. Finally, Windows support is easily available commercially instead of having to ask for help on forums etc.
If you work all day with Windows and need a laptop for home would you buy a Linux machine ? I have, but try to persuade my partner to do the same and you would have no chance despite the fact she can see my Linux machine can do all she does on her Windows machine and at a lower capital cost. Also, as many have said, try going to the local computer store here in the UK and buying a Linux machine and they will laugh at you or say what is Linux ?
When I recommend Linux to people I do not want to have to go through their needs to decide what distro would be best for them, I want to say "get Linux, it is better", probably for each question you have to ask the potential to get a new user reduces by 50%. In many ways Google have this right with Chrome; you get a Chromebox with a set of software that does most of what you need, no options, no multiplicity of choices, the main choices being yes or no to ChromeOS and how much do I want to pay.
As I see it, if we are ever to have a YoTLD then the number of distros needs to be drastically reduced and the developers need to coalesce on 1 or 2 projects. Then we need a wide ranging set of applications without too much duplication, IE only 1 or 2 of each class of SW. The 1 or 2 projects would then need availability of professional level support. As many the developers are doing it in their spare time and the above seems like doing their day job as a volunteer I do not ever see it happening....but we can dream.
34 • @7 Bobbie Sellers: (by dragonmouth on 2021-12-13 13:17:02 GMT from United States)
"Linux does take some learning"
So does Windows except the vast majority of Windows users don't remember the pain of learning it. Or choose not to remember.
I used Windows (3.11-XP) as a cube dweller. Since early 2000's, I've been full-time Linux. My family are Windows users. They've quit asking me for help long time ago because I no longer know Windows. I've tried to get back into Windows but find it as hard as originally learning Linux.
During my time in the cube jungle I had to learn around 10 different O/Ss. They all were equally easy/hard to learn. The difficulty comes in "unlearning" the way things are done in one O/S while trying to learn another one. The reason most people say that Linux is hard to learn is because they expect it to look, feel and work like Windows and it doesn't.
35 • Year of the Linux Desktop? (by rich52 on 2021-12-13 13:25:41 GMT from United States)
Every year I use Linux it becomes the 'year of the Linux Desktop'. I stopped using windows with 'ME'. Glad I did and I'll never turn back. Anyone who thinks Microsoft's monopoly is here to stay is dreaming. Already they're pushing Windows 11 probably at some hefty price tag. They can keep their bloatware, spy software and their crappy business model to themselves. In a capitalist run state I prefer the 'socialist' model when it comes to software and operating systems. The Linux community is far better than the Microsoft alternative IMHO. Linux is a 'socialist' model that keeps getting better with the world-wide community it encompasses.
36 • Year of the Linux Desktop (by dragonmouth on 2021-12-13 13:30:24 GMT from United States)
I agree with Jesse. It depends on who you ask.
For me, the Year of Linux Desktop was about 20 years ago when I went 100% Linux. For the many who switch from Windows to Linux, only to find that Linux is not Windows, the Year of the Linux Desktop will never come. Unless Linux is completely Window-ized.
As some poster have said, I don't care if Year of Linux Desktop ever arrives as long as I have a distro or two I can use. I also don't think that the vast majority of the Linux community cares either. Only companies that depend on Linux for their existence (Canonical, Red Hat, SUSE, etc) give a damn.
37 • Linux desktops (by Jay on 2021-12-13 13:37:12 GMT from Czechia)
Why do so many otherwise sane people need to feel validated by proprietary market choices? If you can buy a computer without Microsoft (or Apple) on it today (and you can), why isn't that enough?
Why does this 'Year of the Linux Desktop' nonsense even exist? Is it 'think like a corporate-owned lemming day' again already?
"Care about what other people think and you will always be their prisoner." - Lao Tzu
38 • Year of the Linux Desktop? (by rich52 on 2021-12-13 13:45:46 GMT from United States)
Every year I use Linux it becomes the year of the Linux Desktop. This all started after I scrapped Windows 'ME'. As a socialist community experiment it is far better than the 'Capitalist' alternative of Windows and their greedy 'monopoly'. Bloatware, spyware, viruses, you name it Windows just sucks. It's a capitalist 'wet-dream' to control and dominate computers, hardware vendors and the public in general for money. Bill and his greedy cohorts can all take a walk as far as I'm concerned. It seems to me 'greed' has encompassed all walks of daily life but my computer is still mine and is 'free' from his kind of overbearing crap. I dared to be different and I'm glad I did and so has my computer. Looking back it was all 'worth' the effort.
39 • @24, Year of The Linux Desktop (by OneHue on 2021-12-13 13:53:25 GMT from Mali)
@24, very good analysis and well said. That is the main reason apps linked to secure services people are willing to pay is the way to go. Corporations can leverage the strong reputation of security and privacy of GNU\Linux distributions for that. But I don't agree with the fragmentation of DE development :-) I really like XFCE and Unity and these are not the major ones... I will stop here :-D (don't feed!)
40 • year of Linux (by wally on 2021-12-13 14:26:31 GMT from United States)
I voted yes because Linux has been capable for a long time. I have been relying on Linux for decades. I have set up friends on it who love it.
That being said, the politics and entrenched systems make it a 'no' vote in reality.
41 • JuNest (by Ankleface Wroughlandmire on 2021-12-13 14:45:02 GMT from Ecuador)
Thanks Jesse for the interesting review of JuNest. So, did I understand correctly that outside of the case of heavy apps like Falkon, you can normally install a package with JuNest and have it available in the host OS shell's search path without first launching into the JuNest environment? Does this persist between login sessions if JuNest is properly set up for the shell? Is there any kind of .desktop file integration with the host OS application menu?
42 • Year of The Linux Desktop (by lincoln on 2021-12-13 14:45:48 GMT from Brazil)
For me, the year of Linux Desktop was 2010 when I started using Linux and all my desktop demands were efficiently met.
But Jesse Smith's warning about selling hardware and supporting Linux is a good point for reflection. In Brazil, local companies, in a restricted way, even sell computers with Linux but with loss of warranty if the consumer changes the distribution, a pity.
43 • JuNest (by Jesse on 2021-12-13 14:49:12 GMT from Canada)
@41: "So, did I understand correctly that outside of the case of heavy apps like Falkon, you can normally install a package with JuNest and have it available in the host OS shell's search path without first launching into the JuNest environment?"
Yes, that is correct.
"Does this persist between login sessions if JuNest is properly set up for the shell?"
Yes, it does.
"Is there any kind of .desktop file integration with the host OS application menu?"
No, the packages installed in juNest are contained inside their own Arch environment. I suppose you could create your own desktop file (or copy one from the JuNest environment), but the contents of JuNest don't integrate with the host's desktop.
44 • The Year of the Linux Desktop? (by Jeff on 2021-12-13 15:13:20 GMT from United States)
Sorry to need to tell you but we missed out on it.
When the GNOME devs got bored and threw away the most popular, most functional desktop in Linux GNOME 2 so they could start all over and create something that does not function as computer users expect they ruined the chance of it ever coming.
Ubuntu built their popularity on the GNOME 2 desktop, and they have struggled ever since. People who have no idea what Linux is have heard of Ubuntu.
45 • Year of the Linux Desktop (by lincoln on 2021-12-13 15:40:26 GMT from Brazil)
Intrigued by the numerous comments citing the lack of manufacturers that deliver laptops with Linux from the factory, I looked for a shopping site here in Brazil and found, in addition to local companies, several brands selling these machines. Namely: Lenovo, Samsung, Dell, Acer, Asus, Compaq and Vaio. And, to my surprise, some were even sold as Notebook Gamers.
I think Linux Desktop is not such a restricted niche anymore.
46 • One unique Linux application: Live CD/DVD (by Jan on 2021-12-13 15:47:12 GMT from Netherlands)
Linux on desktop is a lost matter.
Linux gives at least as much technical and continuity problems as any other OS, however has not so much problem-solving/prevention software.
However there is one Linux application which is superior compared to Windows: live-cd/DVD.
In case of OS-failure there are a few Linux-live-CD/DVD 's with which you can attack the problem or run a functioning OS to do your thing.
I have never found a Windows-live-CD/DVD with this emergency-OS application.
47 • The year of Linux? (by Mitch on 2021-12-13 15:52:55 GMT from United States)
This is an interesting, even some what of an outdated, question, given the changes in relevant technologies: phones, apps, computing. web, media, etc., which shape consumer trends/needs and never ending consumable information.
But before I digress, I'll answer the question: The year of 2009 was the year of Linux for me.
Most stuff can be done simply from a browser, so how much of a "system" does someone "really" need? We're not downplaying likes, or preferences here...just trying to keep it literal and real, not emotional. Chrome OS is based upon Gentoo, and easily the most recognized "Linux distro" of the laptop/tablet marketplace, and hacked often. How many web servers are running Linux? This is what makes running any OS which can access those files (from those same Linux servers) practical. These days, there is not one OS which is worth anything if it cannot do the web. Android...is this mainstream enough to be considered...without splitting hairs over what makes a Linux distro?
Dare I say, most users want access to what they want when they want it, now. Does a majority think about the route in getting there? Privacy awareness, scamming, stolen data are all bringing such concerns into the light...and the same companies mentioned above are dragging their feet to press hard and stay in the dark. For these companies, knowledge isn't power...it's profit. And the more they know about you from their free OSes and software the more money they make off of you by shaping your view of what you think you need. The cycle favors these same companies because it was designed by them to make a profit off of you - their consumer.
If we want knowledge to really be power, perhaps, we withhold it from these same companies until their streams of wealth dry up. Nearly everything free which makes huge profits does so by serving up their knowledge of you in order to make said profit. Even the open source service industry has managed to sell out for even larger profits; who owns who now?
Service and security will continue to become mainstream as data continues to get leaked. And there will be Linux distros every year securing and servicing those same needs. Wasn't the year of Linux the year Linus wrote the first seed of code. My how the the tree has grown!
Is this tired question supposed to be an attempt at good journalism? Just wondered!
48 • Year of Linux (by Ulisses on 2021-12-13 16:03:05 GMT from Brazil)
My Year of Linux happened in 2012. It's on all 4 of my PC/Laptops. My new laptop (Asus Vivobook) came with Windows and the first thing was format and put Linux Mint (Edge Edition). Just perfect!
And I'm installed in all my family and friends who wants to try and they always like it.
49 • YLD (by Tad Strange on 2021-12-13 16:15:44 GMT from Canada)
I go into a place like Costco and I see
Windows
Mac
*Chrome*
IOS
*Android*
It arrived a number of years ago. Just not in the way that the FOSS evangelists wanted it to - ie: as curated corporate assets rather than as Cerveza Libre.
We are in the age of tech appliances, and that's the role of Linux.
50 • Year of Linux (by Hank on 2021-12-13 16:23:10 GMT from Germany)
My personal year of linux was about Years ago.
My daughter is forced to use Windows, her teachers get free devices from MS, politicians much more,
I see no devices freely available in local stores.
Within the EU Billions of dollars going to MS for a bug ridden expensive spying mess which declares good hardware to be unusable.
Long Past time for Laws, EU Tax payers Money should be used for OPEN SOURCE and efficiency not pumping more money in US company's. Not pushing users to replace hardware like my
12 year old i5 quad core device which runs like Bolt on Debian based antiX with ICEWM.
51 • Year of Linux on Desktop (by Pawan on 2021-12-13 17:01:25 GMT from India)
Year of Linux on Desktop for me arrived in 2008 when I completely switched from Windows to Linux using Debian. I have everything I need and have never looked back or felt a need of any thing which I don't get on Linux. I am not in gaming or have never got a need to any proprietary Windows software which does not have alternative on Linux. Have always recommended, installed and supported others to move to Linux.
Also, in my country many prominent laptop brands have choice of Linux.
So YLD had arrived many years ago for me.
52 • YeotLinDes (by Blues on 2021-12-13 17:34:01 GMT from Japan)
For me, the year/s were 2008-2010 to transition fully to Linux.
Linux has conquered the high ground of supercomputing and the low ground of embedded devices. It's strong on servers, and in its Android and Chrome forms it has beaten MS on phones and is competitive on tablets. What is this "desktop" of which you speak? = a shrinking part of computing and networking. Isn't "desktop" the last--and shrinking--frontier for Linux's global domination?
A more reasonable definition of YoLD for the world would be the milestone of it appearing as the cover on Time magazine or some such wide, nearly universal recognition. Or it could be Linux or its derivatives reaching a percentage of the desktop market near that of the current #2, (cr)AAPL.
I wouldn't be too pessimistic about it. It seems probably that, in the near future, one or a growing set of nations, such as China, Russia, India, Turkey, Indonesia, Brazil, maybe the EU, could decide in the name of national security and whatnot that they don't like depending on American software monopolies and either ban their use (at least in government and schools) and have one or more national flagship Linux distros to put out there as alternatives. More will follow. Eventually Windows will live on only on a shrinking US desktop market.
53 • Year of Linux (by Wolfâ„¢ on 2021-12-13 17:55:22 GMT from United States)
I would say yes. Despite what others may say. I'm a gamer and with Epic and Easy Anti-cheat partnering, I can even play some of my multi-player titles. So, all-in-all, it's a win-win. At least for gamers. Valve/Steam already made the plunge and has been very enthusiastic over it for years.
Most people refuse to switch fully due to a few apps. I understand their view though and I still say that people need to use what works for them.
Just my 2¢.
54 • The year of the Linux desktop? (by kaczor on 2021-12-13 18:52:48 GMT from Canada)
The year of the Android happened few years ago, and dethroned Apple and Windows. But, the year of the Linux desktop? No idea, when would it ever happen. The migrating is the other way around these days, toward Windows. Windows 11 would take way some more users. It doesn't take 10 minutes to install it, not like those days 2-3 hours, and if it crashes, you can always go back, and even if you reinstall it, you get the desktop you had. The Linux desktops can't do that.
Too many DEs, too many distros, too many file managers and so on, makes Linux world fragmentised. So, no idea, if the year of the Linux desktop would ever come.
55 • Linux Desktop (by penguinx86 on 2021-12-13 18:56:24 GMT from United States)
How about the year of the Linux laptop? Nope. That won't happen with $1k+ price tags on new models. Then most Linux distros lack hardware driver support for older laptops. Laptop wifi drivers are always problematic. But everything works just fine with my $200 Chromebook, plus the Chromebook can run Android apps. I won't be spending $1k+ on a Linux laptop any time soon.
56 • YoLD and Battery Life (by Dave on 2021-12-13 19:38:53 GMT from United States)
In addition to the high cost of new laptops with Linux preinstalled, there’s also the issue of battery life. Whether you buy a new Linux laptop or install a distro on an old one, battery life is often inferior to what you get on a MacOS, Windows, or Chromebook laptop. That’s also a factor slowing Linux adoption, though secondary to the availability of popular mainstream and niche software.
57 • linux desktop (by alexandru on 2021-12-13 19:46:44 GMT from United Kingdom)
2022 will definitely be linux desktop year, cause:
- browsers will evolve futher and it means better web standards, more powerful javascript & webassembly. And it will mean that a lot more things will gonna run in a browser: like photoshop or autocad, and it will mean that more users will switch to linux
- valve will launch new device, for which people will write games, and overall more games will appear for linux and people will switch to linux
- external factors like some people hesitant to switch to M1 macs from Intel Macs will gonna switch to linux
-another external factor like people hesitant to switch from win 10 to win 11 will gonna choose linux.
- and FINALLY 2022 is the year of wayland desktop, ubuntu 2022 will nail it, it will gonna be a perfect wayland distro.
Both GNOME & KDE will be in perfect shape on wayland, as will Sway...
- other projects like MATE will gonna work on wayland too....
58 • Year of Desktop Linux (by bittermann on 2021-12-13 19:49:08 GMT from United States)
Nope not yet. But I tell you Steam and Proton make it come closer for a gaming desktop. The huge diversity in Linux distros is also its Achilles heel with what works and what doesn't from each version.
59 • @57 • linux desktop (by silva on 2021-12-13 20:24:54 GMT from Germany)
"another external factor like people hesitant to switch from win 10 to win 11 will gonna choose linux."
Win 10 to Win 11 is not much of a change. Those hesitant would stay that way until 2025, but they usually change before. People will buy new laptops/PCs and stay with Windows. If they want Linux, they can have it with WSL and for free. There's no real reason to move to Linux fully. Most probably, the migration would be the other way, from Linux to Windows.
60 • Log4j vulnerability (by security questioner on 2021-12-13 21:11:01 GMT from United States)
Which distros have an updated release to deal with this?
61 • Linux desktop (by Roger on 2021-12-13 21:14:41 GMT from Belgium)
For me personally the Linux desktop is here for years already, the same for most of the members of our work-group. Daily use is normal for us and that is the way we promote GNU/Linux use to other people. There is no need to make it like it's only for specialist. Young people jump from one OS to another by using computers, laptops, Chromebooks, tablets and smartphones. The future is not for OS but for the easy of use and integration and will be for GNU/Linux based ones and not for MS.
62 • Log4j (by Jesse on 2021-12-13 21:44:11 GMT from Canada)
@60: "Which distros have an updated release to deal with this?"
At this point, probably almost all of them. Debian and Mageia are two I know for certain have published advisories. These sorts of vulnerabilities usually don't get publicly published until after everyone has had a chance to update the packages.
63 • Log4j @62 (by security questioner on 2021-12-13 22:03:37 GMT from United States)
Sorry, I was asking for an updated iso image release.
According to
https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/apache-log4j2
Bookworm (currently in debian testing) is still vulnerable. Does that mean that
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/amd64/iso-dvd/
(released today, 2021-12-13), does not have a fix in the iso file?
64 • Year of Desktop Linux (by bittermann on 2021-12-13 22:12:17 GMT from United States)
@61
The current Linux desktop market share is between 1.74 – 2.18% so that is simply not true. You have a better chance of Mac, Chrome OS or Windows becoming future proof on desktops. You said it yourself, lots of OS choices out there that aren't fragmented in its userbase.
65 • Log4j (by Jesse on 2021-12-13 22:13:06 GMT from Canada)
@63: "Sorry, I was asking for an updated iso image release."
Distributions usually don't publish updated ISO files for security fixes, unless it's a super severe one in a base package, one that's in the install media itself. Since log4j is never (or almost never) enabled by default on a distribution or even included in the install media, publishing new ISO files wouldn't have any effect.
66 • my linux home.. (by Jerry on 2021-12-13 22:35:46 GMT from United States)
I have used linux in one version or another from the 1990s.....
I now have 6 desktops and 1 laptop all running linux. I was a windows user up to win 7 & after that nothing but linux. I have 3 more machines in the building stage to receive linux as will. One might ask why so many machines... they each have a different distro and each has a different use.
server -2 desktop -6.... so I guess one could say we are a family of linux users.
Jake
67 • Linux enthusiats never target real desktop users (by Arnaud on 2021-12-13 23:38:55 GMT from France)
Despites i use Linux as my home desktop, i voted no.
The year Linux will be ready for the desktop will be the year there will be one single Linux desktop solution, that is never. Linux is just a kernel. No one askes whether the NTKernel or XNU are ready for the desktop.
Ubuntu is ready for the desktop. Manjaro is ready for the desktop.
But Debian is not. And lots of distros are only ready for nerds. There are dozens of Linux distros out there. And the best of them compete about things desktop user just don't care about.
Frankly, i adopted Linux on my desktop with Ubuntu 6.10. Since then, i tried several other distros but at best some are on par and don't bring better (simpler) end user experience. At worst, they require more technical skills to circumvent their unreadiness for end users.
Linux is a barbarical world where every distro strives to survive on worthless byzantines debates and futile stenses.
I hate Snap or Flatpack, but they have nothing to do with what a user cares about. Yet thousands of Linux guys fight religious zealots wars on software packaging.
SystemD has spread because no community has devised a better alternative to automate the management of Linux as a desktop OS. Yet thousands of Linux guys fight religious zealots wars against it and between them on the pretense SystemD forbid them to know which script begins exactly when and exactly after which other script. Stupid war : the user just wants the system working and does not care at all how the system services are run as long as it is automated, efficient and they have not to manage them by hand (only some very specific systems really need system services to be managed by hand - so do bad sysadmin that cannot evolve their professional skills beyond the 1970s Unix way of doing things - that was half a century ago, guys!).
Seriously, what really differentiates most distros, apart their package management system, is their default desktop environment and their graphical themes. Other differences are just stuff the average end user doesnot even want or need to know about.
There are indeed only two real desktop environments on Linux : KDE (a Windows follower) and GNOME (designed tio be simple to use). Yet dozens of things proliferate, that are often not really more than window managers, because some geeks just wanted to create something different but with neither the ability nor the ressources to match KDE or GNOME (e.g. the FreeBSD recently gave birth to a bad sinister crappy joke called Lumina - why?).
There are just too many package management systems too. The Debian family of distros have a rocksolid package management system. RPMS gave me headaches, mostly because Redhat and CentOS repositories are too limited and you never know if the alien RPMS package you need will integrate into your distro or break it. But then came lost of others like Arch (a tiny-bit more fragile than Debian/Ubuntu/... in my experience), rPath (dead in the fray), Void XBPMS (indeed void of any tangible improvement compared to others)... And some distros even survived without dependency management! (Slackware should have died off attrition for a quarter of a century now.)
And you now, you multiply that number of package management systems with the number of dektop environment, and again by the number of distros that derive from others with nothing new but different colour themes, and you begin to understand there are just too many Linux distros out there, all of them supposed to be a desktop Linux. A sane-minded user will then make only one resonable decision : go and see for easier choices somewhere else.
So much energies spend to endlessly reinvent the same wheels.
And worse: if the newbie user looks for information on the Web, it even get worse. How to install a package ? Decent user-oriented answer should be : go to your distro's application store and click on the wanted package because this works on the best distros. But most answers you'll find are sysadmin oriented without signalling so, like : "You really have to open terminal and type "sudo apt get package" (adapt command to your distro). How can a smartphone user accept that such documentation apply to a desktop system 3 decades after 1990? No single bit of improvement for 2 decades here - except maybe you now find less arrogant nerdly stupid answers like "if you don't know a shell, you have nothing to do with computers".
Trouble is most desktop Linux evangelists and distro builders are just Linux sysadmin or developpers. They know nothing of endusers that need computers to help them in their real life do anything but system administration and software development. Endusers, mind you, are your grandmother, journalists, music composers, literature students, salespersons, lawyers, archeologists, craftmen, doctors, or game-playing nephew, anything you can imagine but computer techs. They don't care about whatever differs between Ubuntu, Manjaro and OpenSUSE. They do not care that they can tweak KDE in hundred ways they can't with GNOME, because they won't tweak them any more than choosing a familiy or friend picture as their desktop background by the way. What they need is a system that boots, keeps their files in folders, allows them to browse the Internet and manage their mail, has a decent office suit for generic needs and have applications that is useful to them (be it account management, music composition and mixing, graphical design, 3D modelling, video editing, or just playing games), is decently reliable and secure, updates itself seemlessly against malware, without having to care about how the system reaches those goals under the hood.
They say that Linux compares to a bazaar. In French, aside its original meaning, this word has developped 2 derived colloquial meanings : a mess as "a mixture or confusion of things o the point it is disagreeable"; hence a mess as "a situation resulting from blundering or from misunderstanding."
As a desktop OS, the average computer user does not want a bazaar. He/she wants something that just works as easlily as your kitchen, without having to care how, and especially without knowing what a shell is.
The day when Linux will be *designed* like macOS, Linux will be ready for the desktop and lots of people will use it.
Actually this already exists. With a BSD kernel, it is indeed called macOS and is proprietary. With a Linux kernel and much less desktop abilities, it is called ChomeOS, it is in great parts also proprietary and helps the oger-like greedy giant business called Google ensnare much more users each day than all hundreds of Linux desktop distros together will attract in a decade.
68 • YotLD... (by Friar Tux on 2021-12-14 01:19:45 GMT from Canada)
@67 (Arnaud) While I agree 100% with what was said here, I do believe the the year of the Linux desktop has been with us since the first Linux desktop environment was openly available. Just because Linux is not as widely used as the two well known proprietary OSes doesn't make it less of a desktop OS. Yes, it's highly fragmented; yes, we waste time and manpower reinventing the wheel over and over again. True, not all forums are friendly to newcomers or the inquisitive. That is, however, what community is all about - not all folks are the same; not all folks can deal with others; not all folks can accept what others have made and will remake things on their own. (People still build their own houses, cars, boats, planes, etc., even though those are readily available, already built.)
My take on Linux, with all it's polish and smudges, is that it is there for people to use, in hundreds of flavours, with thousands of options. I, myself, picked a flavour that I found trouble-free and of general use. I do play with other flavours but those are for pleasure. (I used to keep one all-purpose vehicle for general use, but kept a motorcycle, and sportscar for fun times.)
One thing I see in all the bickering over int systems, D.E.'s, etc., is PASSION. And as long as there is passion, however divided, Linux will continue to thrive. It may not be number one, but it will thrive.
69 • Microsoft, Apple, and Google desktop cartel (by Matt on 2021-12-14 03:28:33 GMT from United States)
I've used Linux for 20 years and eliminated Windows from my life completely about 15 years ago. Linux has matured tremendously and is 100% ready for general desktop use today. Distributions like Linux Mint are extremely polished and have OEM install options. The problem is getting the OEM to actually install it. Until you have OEMs that install Linux from the factory and sell the product on Amazon, Walmart, or some other major electronics retailer, desktop Linux has not truly arrived. The Microsoft, Apple, and Google cartel will fight to the death to prevent that from ever happening. We just have to hope for the death of Microsoft, Apple, and Google corporations I guess.
70 • linux market share (by dave on 2021-12-14 06:49:55 GMT from United States)
Let's be realistic though. If Linux ever managed to become the dominant OS for x86 systems, it would be a terrible development. A good portion of the problems that plague Windows and to a lesser extent, MacOS, are due to their prominence / dominance. They are virus magnets-- literally and figuratively. Whether or not people like it, security thru obscurity is a real thing and it's one of Linux's best selling points.
The idea that Linux needs things like "Triple A" games, Photoshop and MS Office, to be 'successful' has clearly been proven false, for years. Just because 'average' computer users want these things, doesn't make them necessary.
The Linux experience is a microcosm of the internet experience. It was a purer experience in the early days, when it took a lot of effort just to get online. The easier it became, the more riff-raff showed up. Now, everybody has the internet in their pocket and the experience has basically become Television 3.11 For Workgroups.
This is what would happen if Linux ever managed to become the #1 desktop OS. It would bring along all the riff-raff, with all their problems. You can call this 'elitist' if you want, but it's the truth. The cons far outweigh the pros. The "Year of the Linux Desktop" would be an absolute nightmare and we should thank our lucky stars that it has not come to pass.
71 • XeroLinux (by Danny on 2021-12-14 07:05:09 GMT from United States)
Not to cast shade on this work, but it's more of a themed spin. It might be a bit of a stretch to call it a distro (just my opinion of course).
Note, I'm quite pleased and using this spin as my primary daily driver, but is it a distribution?
72 • Year of the Linux desktop (by Seanus Maximus on 2021-12-14 08:39:23 GMT from Australia)
I think we have reached the year of the Linux desktop. Maybe even last year... My reasoning is that, you can do everything that you can do on Windows and Mac, on Linux.
I wrote a .txt file of different tasks that I wanted to be able to do on my PC. Graphic design, gaming, online banking, watch movies etc. Then I opened that .txt file up on Linux and tested to see if I could complete all those tasks, and the answer was yes. So many web browsers are supported now too.
Now I know, some of you will say... Oh, but we don't have Adobe and MS Word. But, if you think about it, since when have you ever been able to play Nintendo games on a SEGA? I think, the Nvidia drivers included in the Ubuntu iso and Steam up and running well, was the moment it became cemented for me.
I haven't had a wifi card issue for years and my latest laptop, is 10th generation Intel cpu, and Linux recognised everything perfectly. No complaints at all. Yeah, maybe Linux doesn't lead the market, nor do we have some of the same access to software. But there is alternatives to nearly everything and you can get by.
73 • Linux Desktop (by eganonoa on 2021-12-14 09:20:50 GMT from Netherlands)
Walking into a store is, I think, in this day and age, not the right metric. For me, the question is: are there hardware providers selling new computers with linux pre-installed with support and warranty. Dell, Lenovo, System76, Purism, StarLabs, Tuxedo, Slimbook and a variety of others. You can buy a new computer from any of those with linux pre-installed and have it under warranty and supported. Clearly, Linux on the Desktop is now a real thing. It may not be a BIG thing. But it has arrived.
74 • The Year of the Linux Desktop (by Simon Plaistowe on 2021-12-14 10:47:27 GMT from New Zealand)
Not so much any particular year I think, but a gathering of momentum through the years. I've been using Linux for about 20 years now and for the past decade have had no need of any other desktop OS as my daily driver. But still there's the WinXP VM that runs my ancient QuickBooks 5 (still works fine with Y2K patch and a distinct lack of the "sunsetting" BS which plagues the more modern QB versions). And the original Win10 from my main laptop is now a VM for occasional testing & reference.
75 • @69 (by kaczor on 2021-12-14 12:38:33 GMT from Canada)
"I've used Linux for 20 years and eliminated Windows from my life completely about 15 years ago."
Which means you've no idea what Windows 10 or 11 is. Windows 7 was released in 2009, that is 12 years ago. Windows Vista was released in 2007, that is 14 years ago. So you are talking about the last days of Windows XP. But, it was one of the most successful Windows releases those days.
Linux may have matured, but not the users, or the developers. They fight against each other around DEs, packaging systems and whatnot. So, how come there'd be a year of the Linux desktop? Ask any random person, what computer OS he/she is using, and you'd get the answer. Rarely, you'd find someone, who uses Linux,... even after MS id advertising Linux as WSL.
76 • Landscape of Linux (by Mark B on 2021-12-14 12:51:54 GMT from United Kingdom)
Reading the comments so far, it strikes me that Linux users have a much better idea of how Linux should be compared to its various distro creators.
77 • The Year of the Linux Desktop (by Syntax Error on 2021-12-14 15:00:32 GMT from Canada)
I have been using Linux for years now, but the "Year of the Linux Desktop" will never happen. There are just too many choices when it comes to Linux and each of these choices comes with a learning curve that some people are just not willing to take on.
I love using Linux because of the choice but it will never be an OS for everyone and therefore the "Year of the Linux Desktop" will never happen and depending on how you look at it, that might be a good thing.
78 • @75 (by matt on 2021-12-14 16:49:18 GMT from United States)
"Which means you've no idea what Windows 10 or 11 is."
Not true. Every time I purchase a new laptop, I have the opportunity to be reminded why I don't use Windows before I wipe the hard drive and install Linux. I'm also the family tech support person, and my wife requires Windows for her job. My most common tech support suggestion to her: "Try rebooting." The catalyst for me switching to Linux was the crash prone Windows Millennium edition. I know that no subsequent Windows version has ever been that bad, but they all stink.
79 • Linux desktop (by Roger on 2021-12-14 18:19:28 GMT from Belgium)
@64
What I mean is that the Linux desktop is very usable and that you don't need to be a IT specialist to run it. My brother who dose not care for computers uses when he is at my place one of my Linux Mint 20.2 Mate PC's and for him as long as he can go online it's OK. When I loan a PC to friends when they have a problem it's always a Linux Mint 20.2 Mate one, I put their files on it and so on and they can go on, nobody ever complains that they could not do their work. Of course when they run some specialist program like bookkeeping and so than they have some problems, but they always are surprised how easy the switch is. For daily use by most people GNU/Linux desktop is good and when we explain that there is nothing to pay the surprise is even bigger. I tell them than that I support by donations and explain why I do that. It is in that way that we help people to get writ of the shackles of MS and the dreaded updates that takes their computer hostage.
80 • No way (by Dr.j on 2021-12-14 18:33:31 GMT from Germany)
The year of the Linux desktop? No way. There are so many problems that prevent that, I don't even know where to start. I love Linux and there is nothing else in our household and it will stay that way forever. But Linux is not suitable for the masses. Because Linux demands something from users that 90% of all users don't want to do: to deal intensively with their operating system - possibly on the level of the 80s (like editing configuration files with vi).And a Linux, which can be accepted by all, must be like Android: home directory is shared, everything else is hidden, the company (like google) takes care of it. But that is no longer Linux!
81 • YotLD? Windows 11? (by Jeff on 2021-12-14 19:14:26 GMT from United States)
Some here and elsewhere have said Windows 11 will drive greater Linux adoption.
I doubt that, more likely the markets and recyclers will be flooded with rather recent and capable computers as those who must use Windows due to software needs or company policy and those who resist using anything but Windows are forced to dump their current hardware to meet the W11 requirements.
Linux and BSD users should seize many opportunities to buy these inexpensively, as they will run our OSes beautifully.
82 • @ 78 (by silva on 2021-12-14 19:19:35 GMT from Germany)
Oh, you have already agreed that you don't know much about Windows for a long time. And, because you don't know much about Windows, you just cannot say anything against it, and most importantly, you can't compare Linux distros to Windows, don't know how to either.
Linux DEs and distros are pretty good, but they are fragmented, and because of that, lot of wasted energy. Not only wasted energy, but the distro makers, DE makers practically go against each other. The distro makers, who leech from a mother distro, go against the mother distro, never contributing upstream. But at least Ubuntu is contributing upstream to Debian, had been like that from 2004. Can't say the same about clones of Ubuntu.
GNU-Linux is a very good OS, very good for a few of us, who like to tinker with it, but those, who come Linux, just for the sake of coming, would eventually go back. They won't find out-of-the-box OS for them to keep on working, or playing in the Linux world. Gnome DE is an example.
83 • @82 (by dave on 2021-12-14 20:41:47 GMT from United States)
Whether you're talking about distributions or desktop environments, the 'fragmentation' of Linux projects is not a significant source of repulsion for potential 'average' users. The main problem for them is that they want very specific third-party software that is not available for Linux.
I agree with the general idea that Linux may not be suitable for everyone, however the specific reasons you have stated are a bit exaggerated.
It's not fair to compare the process of choosing and installing a Linux distribution with the act of buying a computer with Windows preinstalled. Given the 'moving target' of Windows hardware requirements, the average computer user would have a significantly harder time installing Windows than, say, Linux Mint. On the other hand, if a person were to buy a laptop with Linux Mint professionaly preinstalled, they will not need to 'tinker' with anything to make the OS usable. There have been plenty of distributions that are 'usable out of the box' and these selections become more refined every year. Linux Mint is just one example.
Sure, there are plenty of distributions that require the user to have more advanced degrees of competency, but the most modern desktop linux users are using the 'user friendly' / 'out of the box' solutions-- no 'tinkering' involved.
The reality is that the average computer user is just as stumped by Windows problems as they would be by Linux problems. It doesn't matter how complicated the fix might be-- they are generally dependent upon a computer repair tech or helpful family member in the event of any trouble. So one might list the lack of availability of competent repair techs as another reason for poor Linux adoption.
When one of these people wants to switch to Linux, they generally don't even make the decision of which distribution to use-- that decision is made for them by whoever installs it or recommends it.
Also, your depiction of upstream/downstream relations is a bit inaccurate. Ubuntu is able to contribute to Debian, because Debian is receptive to contributions. The same can not be said for Canonical, who is notoriously picky about what they will accept from downstream projects. Unity was a direct manifestation of that attitude, however it does fit with your narrative regarding distributions shooting themselves in the foot by deploying a goofy DE.
tl;dr what keeps people away from Linux-- and what makes people switch back to Windows after trying Linux, is not the array of distribution or DE choices or some antiquated notion of endless 'tinkering'; it's their reliance on specific third-party software.
84 • Windows vs Linux (by Otis on 2021-12-14 21:03:55 GMT from United States)
@78 and others in the convo... I've got several Linux distros on one drive and Windows 11 (upgraded from 10) on another drive (both SSDs) on the same machine. Honestly I cannot anymore tell the difference between Windows and Linux in a few areas now: Speed of the OS from app to app, boot up time, efficiency as to function, etc.
The differences are more "political" or whatever other ways we an put it having to do with those so-and-sos at Microsoft and their unfair ways of going about dominating the home desktop market, as well as workplace market for PCs over the years. When we use Windows we are supporting a despotic regime in the computing world, and that is quite far-reaching if you think about it. Thus my love for Linux/BSD.
But, again, Windows has been crafted over the decades to be far closer in functionality to Linux/BSD as you use your computer as a desktop/home work station.
85 • Year of the Linux Desktop (by Andy Figueroa on 2021-12-14 21:11:19 GMT from United States)
Good and abundant comments this week. I was an early adopter, running Unix before Linux, and only run Linux, but I had to vote no.
Unfortunately, most users do NOT want to learn how to use a computer, even for the sake of freedom.
86 • .. (by Tad Strange on 2021-12-14 21:24:35 GMT from Canada)
If I had to "deal intensively" with my computer I would not run Linux either, and that was certainly what kept me away until the last couple of years.
It's not like the days when WPA wifi and USB mass storage devices were a hair pulling affair to get working. And if you stay away from the bloody fingers stuff like Fedora, you're less likely to be unknowingly testing alpha and beta grade software.
The question becomes one of support. "Just google it" forum searching is, face it, an utterly miserable experience to subject the uninitiated to (and that is NOT a jab at the forum community, but one against staying in the 1990's).
As for the old "M$ made my computer obsolete". The sunset on 10 is 2025: that is WELL outside of the typical turnover rate of IT equipment in business. More and more businesses are and have been leasing equipment for years: it's called evergreening. Microsoft isn't driving that. One may as just as glibly blame consumer attitudes against paying the premium for durable goods.
It will mostly be the home users, and even then only if by 2025 they are running what is by then 6-7 year old hardware (and care about security patches). I know people still running 7 who don't care, and who have refused a move to anything else.
On that note it's funny how no one kvetches hard about Apple dropping support for old hardware in new releases of OSx. They obviously cater to a different demographic; one that eschews dumpster diving.
87 • linux desktop (by hotdiggettydog on 2021-12-14 23:55:59 GMT from Canada)
I started my linux journey in the late 90s with Mandrake. Bought it at Futureshop. I had used Windows long enough to know there had to be something better.
Linux was pretty rough for this newbie in the early days. Nvidia, wireless, and printers could be challenging. Even installs could be complicated. It was around 2005 when I finally abandoned Windows for good.
Linux today is freaking awesome with all kinds of bells and whistles. Easy to install and maintain. Most everything works out of the box but I'm careful choosing hardware. I'm passed all the bells and whistles - I like a clean functional desktop that just works period.
My last purchase came with windows 10. What a piece of shite that is. I've kept it for updating my gps but I detest firing it up. I don't see how windows is easier than linux today. And don't get me going about Apple crap.
88 • 1997 was the year of the Linux desktop (by Eirian Humphries on 2021-12-15 01:38:54 GMT from United Kingdom)
As someone then working in environments where Microsoft Office dominated 1997 was my personal Year of the Linux Desktop, because Star Office made their Linux version free. From that point Linux was my operating system at home. I downloaded SLS Linux in 1992 but did not persevere as I had just paid a small fortune for Microsoft Office. Back in the 1990s the meme of the Year of the Linux Desktop meant when Linux would be taken seriously as a credible desktop system. That point was reached as far as I am concerned in the late 1990s when we had GIMP and PostgreSQL (neither initially available on Windows) plus Star Office. Linux was briefly sold on the high street in the UK when the Acer Aspire One came out in 2008 as either Linux or Windows XP. Microsoft had officially remaindered XP, but brought it back from the dead to stop the netbook revolution making Linux a popular high street operating system. Linux is widespread on the desktop for non-technical users as they ask technical friends to install Linux on their system that can no longer cope with Windows. 2022 may prove the Year of the Linux Desktop for many as the unnecessarily high requirements of Windows 11 make owners of recent relatively expensive devices choose between staying with a stagnating Windows 10 install or switching to a Linux system that will never make your hardware redundant.
89 • YoLD (by pengxuin on 2021-12-15 02:06:53 GMT from New Zealand)
hmm.
try to get any average computer user to install windows and then to install Linux, or vice versa. assume Linux friendly hardware!
Install:
Windows: installer is quite picky, and only after multiple reboots can Windows really be used.
expect to have wasted half a day if everything goes well. (personal Win10 experience)
Linux: most popular distros installers are pretty intuitive, but I guess even an idiot can screw it up.
From start of installer to finish/reboot, my preferred distro takes less than 10 minutes, even faster if usb3 port/usb3 stick.
Drivers:
windows: comes with generic only. they will likely need hardware vendor driver media. no media - oh dear!(or some other phrase).
Linux, built into kernel. additional specific hardware drivers usually available from repos. (but I did specify Linux Friendly Hardware!)
software:
windows: very limited generic applications, browser.
troll the internet for really useful applications, or buy them.
Linux: a s***tload of applications installed and ready to go. will you use them ALL? probably not, but most areas (office / video / audio / pictures) covered.
something extra : look in the repos, it is likely there.
I didnt vote, but for probably about 2005 for me, everything at home is Linux based
90 • Year of the what now? (by CS on 2021-12-15 03:46:20 GMT from United States)
As a Linux laptop user, I wouldn't recommend it to myself, only fit for hardware too old to run anything else.
91 • your average college student (by matt on 2021-12-15 04:58:27 GMT from United States)
I teach an undergraduate engineering course on the use of Python for applications in numerical methods and statistics. I was shocked to find out how little the students know about their computers, and most do not have any interest in learning about the technical aspects of computers. Most just want a point and click desktop environment. It is even better if they don't need to install any application, much less a new operating system.
If you want a wake up call on how likely Linux adoption on the desktop will be, just ask a few twenty-something year olds a few questions:
-Can you open up your file manger to search for a file on your hard drive?
-Do you know what directory (or folder) your file is stored in?
-Can you enter a command at a terminal prompt (or powershell window)?
-Do you know what the filename extension is, or the format of the file?
I'm dealing with engineering students, and most would not be able to answer the above questions. I imagine the situation is worse for students studying humanities and social sciences. There is zero chance most of them would ever want to switch operating systems. The only way to get Linux in their hands is if it was pre-installed on the computer they bought.
92 • re: your average college student (by Titus_Groan on 2021-12-15 09:03:16 GMT from New Zealand)
@91
this is not a new thing, and it does not just apply to your field.
when I first started work as a consumer electronics repairer, clients fell into 3 basic groups.
for example:
over 45yo client brings in a stereo speaker box for repair and requests failing tweeter be replaced. confirm failure and replace tweeter.
25-45yo brings in stereo + speaker boxes for repair and says something wrong with the sound on the left side. some relatively easy diagnostics point to the failing tweeter in left channel speaker box, and faulty tweeter is replaced.
under 25yo brings in stereo + speaker boxes for repair and says : doesnt go.
after an interrogation of client, determine issue is likely an audio fault, and that it is only apparent sometimes. much more extensive diagnostics point to a failing tweeter in the left speaker box, and the faulty tweeter is replaced.
maybe the client needs hearing checked too.
sadly, as years have progressed, the under 25yo "doesnt go" group has expanded and is now the under 45yo "doesnt go" group.
it is now rare to meet a younger person that has the interest / ability / nous to perform the basic diagnostics as shown by the 45yo and older of years ago.
That rare younger person is also likely one of the 2%ers who would be willingly to try to install Linux, as, as many above have mentioned, "it isnt available off the shelf"
93 • @83 fragmentation... (by silva on 2021-12-15 10:31:21 GMT from Germany)
Have a look at the just released Pop OS 21.10. It is running the so-called Cosmic desktop, which is collection of other people's extensions forked into one (or few) "system" extensions to create a feeling that it is sort of unique and better than Ubuntu. The thing is, the PopOS developers is not doing what FOSS states, you fork anyone's work, but mention it somewhere, and give them credit. Pop OS is "creating" this Cosmic Desktop to go against the Ubuntu's development. They say, they can't keep maintaining Ubuntu's fast development in Pop OS. System76 is a hardware seller, and those days, it simply used Ubuntu to sell their products, using Ubuntu's success. Ubuntu is not a hardware seller, and it can freely go forward with its development. Anyway, for some time, System76 can sell their "Cosmic" DE to gullible buyers, but for too long...until they find out that PopOS doesn't run Wayland.
94 • YoLD (by martian brain on 2021-12-15 10:57:06 GMT from Canada)
Win \ MAC / Android are more consumer OS's, for ppl who need hand-holding to have it pre-installed, and can call support when things go wrong. Linux is more of a developer's / tweaker's OS. You need to install it yourself, and know more about fixing problems.
So, logically, the Year of the Linux Desktop will be when humans colonize Mars. Why? Because there are no Martians to sell consumer OS's to. No Martians to provide support for your problems. On Mars you need to be able to fix things yourself. So the first Martian colinizers will have Linux on their desktops, laptops, phones, and quantum computers (which will be all the rage by then). And battery life for mobile devices will be phenomenal. And on Mars, no one can hear you stream!
95 • People don't wanna learn stuff... (by Friar Tux on 2021-12-15 15:11:46 GMT from Canada)
I read a lot of "people don't wanna learn Linux or computers", here. And, yes, that's quite true. It's because of this that a LOT of companies have succeeded. Most people drive a car, but know nothing about the internal working of that car. Most folks have various small appliances at home, but don't actually know how to fix them if things go wrong. All of us live in houses, but few know how to repair them or what to expect over the years. This relates to computers as well. I want to get stuff done but not be bothered with the inner working of the machine the same as I want to drive from point A to point B but don't want to be bothered by what makes the vehicle work.
General Electric, Ford, Microsoft, and all the others, have succeeded because they realized that people just want a product that works and helps people to get on with life.
Now Linux - some distros - have started to realize that, too. My distro of choice hasn't had an issue in five years of use. I like that. My car hasn't given me any grief in ten years. I like that. My phone (landline) is still going strong after 20 years. I LOVE that. While I believe the year of the Linux desktop has been with us since the late 90s, I also believe that IF you want LInux/BSD to be used more, you'll need to make it so anyone can pick it up and go with it intuitively. Keep it invisible, behind the scene, out of the way. Oh, and have a friendly, WORKING, infrastructure in place in case someone has issues.
It's simple human nature.
96 • @ 76 Mark B re on users have a better idea on using an OS than the developers do (by Ted H in Minnesota on 2021-12-15 17:23:57 GMT from United States)
"Reading the comments so far, it strikes me that Linux users have a much better idea of how Linux should be compared to its various distro creators."
- Nr 76 Mark B on DW on 12-14-21 from United Kingdom
It would be helpful to contact developers with suggestions, etc. if they would post an email address to reach them at. Yes, I know they are wary/fearful that they would be overwhelmed with email responses, but if they would have a "switchboard operator" to sort through them to weed out the non-productive ones, then they would get input for actual end users.
I have mentioned this here several times; it would be nice/helpful if the developers would pick up on this. Until they do, here is where one of the few places one can drop some hints...
Yes, you may say, "Well, use the forums!" Well, I have tried wading thru forums with little to no success, so I don't do that anymore.
- TH in Minnesota
97 • Linux in the desktop world (by Ben Myers on 2021-12-16 05:13:20 GMT from United States)
What sells an operating system are the applications available that a person needs. We are now over 20 years into the "better" Windows, starting with NT, and ignoring the god-awful Windows running on top of DOS. In those 20 years, and even prior, people have gotten used to certain programs, so they use them regularly. You or I can set up a Linux environment that looks a lot like Windows, but the familiar programs are simply not there. There may be similar programs, but they are not the same, and, worse yet, they may require significant work to move and maybe convert data used by a Windows program so that a corresponding Linux program can pick up where Windows left off.
I do not think that Windows running in a virtual environment on Linux is a practical answer, because it forces people to switch back and forth between Windows and Linux menus and commands. This is beyond the comprehension of at least 99% of all computer users. My wife was forced to run a Windows app virtually on a Mac OS box, and it was absolutely hateful and counterproductive, all because the company owner was too clueless and too enamored of Macs to realize that a simple hardware with Windows would suffice.
All of this says that it is fantasy to expect people to leave the world of Windows behind for Linux. Yes, people may do it, but will Linux ever build critical mass in the desktop world, with more than a fraction of a percent of the total population of all desktop computers? No, the time for Linux to emerge as factor in the desktop world is long past. People criticize Gates for selling Windows so well, but the Linux community has to look inwardly at itself and ask if anybody really got out there and sold Linux against Gates. Oh, and which of the myriad of distros, another factor to confuse people contemplating a move to Linux.
On a historical note, Microsoft has found out more than once that the lack of applications is a death knell of the combo of hardware and operating system. Microsoft had a joint venture with DEC to offer Windows NT in DEC Alpha hardware. More recently, Microsoft sold ARM-power Surfaces with Windows RT, for which there was only one release.
98 • @97 (by silva on 2021-12-16 12:12:19 GMT from Germany)
You are talking mostly about Windows than Linux. It is not about the Year of the Windows Desktop, by the way. You just can't put Mercedes parts in a Fiat...
99 • Wayland (by Will on 2021-12-16 17:31:27 GMT from United States)
It's still barely 2021, odds that Wayland will replace X? I just don't see it happening anytime soon (call it this decade). Everywhere it's tried, it seems to fail. A lot of tech literature seems to take it on faith that it's inevitable - that X is past its prime, its archaic, fatally flawed, and so on. Yet, there it is. I'll take the long odds for now. X will be here in 2030 and we'll either still be talking about Wayland soon to eclipse it's grandparent, or not, as the case may be. Similar to the discussion in 2009: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=87281
100 • Linux in the desktop world (by lincoln on 2021-12-17 01:17:55 GMT from Brazil)
The biggest reason why Linux isn't present on most desktops is covered in this article: "Microsoft Eliminates Competition Through Coercive OEM Contracts". https://web.archive.org/web/20090713194826/http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/10/23/13219/110
If Linux were installed side-by-side with Windows, most users would choose to use Linux for most of their tasks.
101 • @99 @67 about wayland (by always curious about FOSS on 2021-12-17 08:31:38 GMT from Germany)
That is a very releationship:
wayland will replace X when XFCE is runing on wayland.
And wayland is going to fail as long wayland is equated with the gnome desktop and
guys like post 67 who are telling, that xfce is no desktop.
102 • @101 (by kaczor on 2021-12-17 09:18:29 GMT from Canada)
Actually, post #67 is right,
>> Endusers, mind you, are your grandmother, journalists, music composers, literature students, salespersons, lawyers, archeologists, craftmen, doctors, or game-playing nephew, anything you can imagine but computer techs. They don't care about whatever differs between Ubuntu, Manjaro and OpenSUSE. They do not care that they can tweak KDE in hundred ways they can't with GNOME, because they won't tweak them any more than choosing a familiy or friend picture as their desktop background by the way. What they need is a system that boots, keeps their files in folders, allows them to browse the Internet and manage their mail, has a decent office suit for generic needs and have applications that is useful to them (be it account management, music composition and mixing, graphical design, 3D modelling, video editing, or just playing games), is decently reliable and secure, updates itself seemlessly against malware, without having to care about how the system reaches those goals under the hood. <<
Until then, we can forget about year of the Linux desktop.
103 • year of linux (by mark on 2021-12-17 18:54:22 GMT from United States)
I think in a few more years when folks start to realize that can get the work done on the various computers thrown at them. Then they realize they a linux system can get it done (just like chrome and android), They why pay the amount for a Windows machine. Or they can salvage an older computer, be just as productive and save a couple bucks , Then they will say that linux system works just fine. just like we like our cars just a bit better "when it's paid for"
104 • YotLD... (by Friar Tux on 2021-12-17 21:51:43 GMT from Canada)
Coincidentally, It's FOSS has this article... https://news.itsfoss.com/what-desktop-linux-needs-to-succeed-in-the-mainstream/
Seems to agree with most comments, here.
Number of Comments: 104
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