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1 • Pinephone (by papapito on 2021-10-25 00:22:47 GMT from Australia)
I will order one for sure, just when they get more stock and I can afford one for the Australian market
2 • Ubuntu and Gnome 40 (by Sam Crawford on 2021-10-25 00:42:24 GMT from United States)
It's interesting you reviewed Ubuntu 21.10 with Gnome 40. Today I installed Gnome 41 on Debian Bookworm and all I can say is it's terrible. It seems like every version of Gnome is more difficult to use than the last.
That said I installed the Cinnamon desktop, ver 5. I think, and am surprised how easy it is to use. I'm coming from using the Mate desktop.
I really like Windows 11 as it seems snappier than Windows 10 but would rather be in Linux so I think I'll stay with Cinnamon for awhile.
3 • "Will you buy the PinePhone Pro?" (by R. Cain on 2021-10-25 02:03:01 GMT from United States)
The "standard" Pinephone (simply, 'PinePhone') is in stock NOW, and Pine Micro says
"“Due to the ongoing severe component shortages, estimating availability of devices such as the Pinebook Pro or the PineTab is difficult. Estimated availability dates are only approximations. The one exception to this rule is the PinePhone, which we expect to be available all-year-round.”
The PinePhone, with "convergence package" is $199.00; well worth the additional $50 over the regular PinePhone.
****************************************************************************************
Here is what Pine has to say about The PinePhone Pro (at $399.00)...
"...We have also secured the necessary components and factory floor-time to produce a large production run of the PinePhone Pro in November; we’re calling it the Explorer Edition. If everything goes according to plan, early adopters will have their Explorer Edition units delivered in early 2022."
Oh, and you must fill out a questionnaire, and---based on your answers---be approved by Pine, in order to even be allowed to purchase a "developer edition" of the PinePhone Pro---at $399. To be delivered in 2022.
...or you could buy a PinePhone. For $149.00. Or $199.00. In stock now. Manjaro with Plasma Mobile OS build.
Same privacy and security features; replaceable battery; headphone jack; same keyboard option (as well as all the rest of the PinePhone options)...
...just not as powerful, or as much memory, nor the bragging rights.
https://www.pine64.org
4 • Ubuntu 21.10 (by FMM-1992 on 2021-10-25 03:12:10 GMT from Iran)
"Ubuntu 21.10 comes with a customized version of GNOME 40 as its desktop environment."
They are the reasons why I don't use or even test Ubuntu!
customized and outdated !!
5 • Gnome (by Bobbie Sellers on 2021-10-25 03:45:22 GMT from United States)
Gnome since 2.4 has been totally repulsive but nearly as bad as Unity and the rest of Ubuntu.
Maybe it is worse.
Switching from .deb to snap is a step backward even if confined to Firefox.
Just my opinion but it seems to be that Canonical publicity apparatus convinced
lots of people to come to the dark side and they stayed there not having fun
with Linux but just using Ubuntu, People are resisting upgrading to later releases
(who can blame them)and having problems as a result.
It looks like I will be giving up my position as LUG distribution librarian so will only download
Ubuntu for friends who ask for it. But I could not even justify download the 9 months support
version of Lubuntu.
B.Sellers
6 • Firewall (by Andy Figueroa on 2021-10-25 04:42:07 GMT from United States)
Seems strange to just assume that ufw is already installed.
7 • @6 Andy F (by SpecSaver on 2021-10-25 05:51:41 GMT from Australia)
ufw was explicitly mentioned/asked in the question...
"Shut-it-all-down asks: Since I only use my computer for web browsing and some desktop applications I don't need to allow any remote access. How can I close all unused ports using ufw?"
8 • Chimera Linux (by Alexandru on 2021-10-25 06:13:03 GMT from Austria)
Interesting to see FreeBSD userland on top of Linux kernel. it is opposed to Debian kFreeBSD where Linux userland is put on top of FreeBSD kernel.
9 • PinePhone (by PoorGuy on 2021-10-25 06:25:43 GMT from Spain)
400$ (plus taxes plus shipping plus whatever) is too much for me: My limit is around 150€. That's life.
10 • No Pine for NZ (by keewee on 2021-10-25 07:15:20 GMT from New Zealand)
Let's see - PinePhone US $399, plus about $100 in shipping at this time, US $500. Then add the Spanish Inquisition (Customs) who will ask 30% or more of that $500. Well over $1000 in local NZ dollars, and NO guarantee it would play with the local provider's networks. And on top, zero tech support as we are on the outer limb of civilization. Nope, will give this a miss.
11 • Firewall (by nobody on 2021-10-25 07:25:00 GMT from Finland)
For regular users recommending tools like gufw seems kind of counterproductive. These traditional firewalls require active maintenance and level of understanding that a regular user might not have and frankly should not need.
Something like opensnitch which contextualizes the connection requests and actively queries makes much more sense. I don't think it currently supports managing incoming, unfortunately. This would also have the added benefit of possibly alerting user of strange behavior on their system which won't be the case with ufw unless you know to increase the log verbosity and actually monitor it somehow.
12 • The absolute state of Gnome (by Cheker on 2021-10-25 13:31:58 GMT from Portugal)
Gnome sounds like an experiment these days, to serve as an example of everything you shouldn't do. "Guys, wanna develop a DE? Look at the sheer stupidity of ours first, and then do the complete opposite."
13 • pinephone pro (by pierre on 2021-10-25 15:17:51 GMT from France)
After my comment from last week, I'm glad to see the Pinephone Pro got a mention, although it doesn't seem to have as much traction amongst followers of this site as I might have expected.
In my own case, I'll be looking to get one when the consumer edition goes on sale in the next couple of months. I've managed to completely avoid both iOS and Android until now, spending the last few years with an obscure esoteric phone from the past that has done everything I need, but now that it's just developed a charging problem the timing of the Pinephone Pro announcement is perfect as I'll need to change soon.
I don't really want to use any kind of app, for privacy reasons, I just want basic phone functionality, email, a few document viewers and editors and a web browser. If there is a possibility to load Android apps I suppose it's probable I'll be obliged at some point by my employer or some ignorant organisation or official administration to use an app for something, so it may be necessary and hence useful. Otherwise, having the optional full physical keyboard and full integration with my Plasma desktop PCs will be brilliant.
14 • Gnome ease of use (by Simplicity on 2021-10-25 15:40:49 GMT from United States)
Gnome seems to me the best example of how you can make an environment sooo easy to use that it constantly gets in your way.
15 • PinePhone Pro (by Jesse on 2021-10-25 15:45:25 GMT from Canada)
@13: "I'm glad to see the Pinephone Pro got a mention, although it doesn't seem to have as much traction amongst followers of this site as I might have expected."
There probably isn't much enthusiasm over the Pro model because it doesn't exist yet. It's not available for order, it's only just becoming available for pre-order now. And it's only targeting developers. Not many people are going to line up for a (relatively) expensive, developer-focused device that can only be pre-ordered.
Maybe, in six months, if the PP Pro becomes available and usable for consumers then we'll see more enthusiasm.
16 • Gnome (by Nathan on 2021-10-25 15:59:05 GMT from United States)
I've always kind of liked Gnome 3.x (I know, I'm weird). It was the first time that multiple desktops made sense to me; stacking vertically just clicked. But now they're horizontal, so I've become a convert to i3 (another DE that doesn't encourage/force you to minimize windows).
17 • buntu (by Tad Strange on 2021-10-25 17:04:37 GMT from Canada)
I can understand the reason for Gnome to exist.
I just cannot fathom why Canonical chooses to use it as their premiere desktop environment.
Or did I misunderstand that their focus is on the Desktop and Server space?
With the PC world divided by Windows and Mac, who have spent decades refining the desktop experience, Ubuntu goes with the being different to be different approach.
I was going to switch to MX21 from Kubuntu, but for whatever reason the wifi on my laptop will not auto-reconnect. Maybe that's not a show stopper, but it's irritating all the same. It's use of an older version of Plasma is a minor niggle otherwise. Kubuntu upgraded smoother than I expected, so I'll stick with that for now.
I was going to be the usual polite Canadian and pick "undecided" in the poll but, face it, I'm not going to buy a hobbyist cellular. Hell, I hate the you-will-do-it-our-way approach of Apple, along with their 15-years-ago flash memory pricing, but the thing just works. I even bought an Android tablet this past year and it's clunky compared to IOS.
18 • going numb (by fonz on 2021-10-25 17:27:44 GMT from Indonesia)
the only 'good' way to install buntu is to install the server edition and build up from there. who knows how long thatll last until they start aliasing 'apt install' as 'snap install' whatnot (like said last weekish). its understandable how current tech trends tend to focus on touch screens (my 2 lapys are fancy 'transformers'), but still all these 'fisher price'ing everything is just 'modern' philosophy. take a look at android 12 and wandows 11.
@12 and @14 have awesome quotes for numb 40, hopefully othersll join in too
why did numb jump from 3.x to 40? because numb 3.x ate 4-39 *crickets*
welp, could be worse...
yeah im evil, im defs not buying any phone +$200. my current (and only) phone i bought mid '19 is having a new surge in life with lots of devs working on custom roms, with a few a12 roms in beta. there is an ubports port, but still in its gsi phase and not ready to fully install yet, and mobian still far off in the horizon...
19 • Pinephone and Ubuntu (by hotdiggettydog on 2021-10-25 20:46:41 GMT from Canada)
A few years ago I would have loved a linux phone. Nowadays I've come to rely on my android phone and apps. I can control most everything in my home via the phone; security, smart plugs, sensors for water leaks, and even my toothbrush. I don't see a pure linux phone getting there anytime soon if at all.
I have to agree with most about Ubuntu and gnome. Gnome and the now defunct Unity are horrible. Occasionally I'll flash up a new version of Ubuntu in hopes of something more user friendly but it seems to be getting worse.
Thank gawd for Mint, Mxlinux, and Manjaro. Xfce and Cinnamin have become very polished desktop environments.
I have to give Mx credit for their new fluxbox edition. Very, very fast and crisp even in VBox.
20 • PinePhone & Snaps (by AdrienM on 2021-10-26 01:36:43 GMT from United States)
I detest cell phones. Never had one, never will, but if this were an alternate universe, I'd very likely give the PinePhone Pro a try.
As for the Canonical/Mozilla move to a snap-only Firefox, I guess that means my own and several computers I maintain for others will ride out 20.04 till the last breath, and then jump to another distro when 20.04 finally dies. It isn't just the running or app-startup sluggishness of Snaps, even Firefox in particular, but rather the screeching molasses halt the Snap Framework inflicts on any hardware older than 2 years missing top-of-the-line specs. Having to wait 5-10 minutes for an OS to boot due to Snap is beyond patently absurd and why everything 'snap' is the first thing I remove from a fresh/upgraded Ubuntu system. (there are other absurd slowdowns Canonical is guilty of on boot, but Snap is by far the biggest offender)
Flatpak and AppImage don't have this problem. (and .deb packages sure don't either!)
Another problem with Snap Firefox are the auto-updates. Their present UI is abhorrent and unusable. They've destroyed the very notion of 'tabs' they practically pioneered. (so has Safari for that matter) I don't want to have to keep 'fixing' their UI changes and I don't want to have to be surprised by a new UI from an auto-update. Not being jerks with their UI is a tall order for Mozilla, but if Canonical could allow me to disable the thing from updating without my prior consent, that could help.
Not fixing the boot issues though is a deal breaker.
21 • PinePhone & Gnome (by Simon Plaistowe on 2021-10-26 01:54:31 GMT from New Zealand)
Here in New Zealand I reckon I'll be stuck with an Android phone for the foreseeable future, same reasons as @10 mostly. Ubuntu server is OK but for desktop I avoid Gnome and stick with Linux Mint, either Cinnamon or XFCE edition depending on the hardware. Better then plain Ubuntu IMHO. Each to their own I guess, Linux is about choice.
22 • Phony (by Tech in San Diego on 2021-10-26 02:10:36 GMT from United States)
Been using my Motorola "flip" phone for 20 years. It does just what I need it to do make calls and send an occasional text message. The battery life is just over a week and my plan costs just $10 bucks a month.
I installed Ubuntu 21.10 just to see what if anything had changed over the past 10 years. I was not impressed. Keep on Trucking Canonical, you're bound to get it right one day.
23 • Phony (by Tech in San Diego on 2021-10-26 02:10:36 GMT from United States)
Been using my Motorola "flip" phone for 20 years. It does just what I need it to do make calls and send an occasional text message. The battery life is just over a week and my plan costs just $10 bucks a month.
I installed Ubuntu 21.10 just to see what if anything had changed over the past 10 years. I was not impressed. Keep on Trucking Canonical, you're bound to get it right one day.
24 • from freedom to protection (by pining for a secure phone on 2021-10-26 05:57:55 GMT from Canada)
most ppl just need an ordinary phone. but some have the misfortune of stepping on the wrong ppl's toes. then they are met with a barrage of attacks: spam phone calls; computer hacking; internet trolling; intercepted emails; stolen deliveries (including pinephones); home and car bugged; tracked via CCTV; followed by strangers; etc. there's no explanation; no desire to communicate - they just get off on attacking you.
this is why some ppl need something like the pinebook & pinephone, because the kill switches ensure that attackers can't get access to parts of your devices, and a range of Linux OS's is also helpful for added security.
technology started off as creating more freedom for people, but it's turning around so that some are using technology to stifle the freedom of others. that's why several of the phone OS makers are now creating more security features. it won't be long before everyone using tech devices & on the net will need to be identifiable in order to reduce the amount of harassment & crime. and in courts there will be prosecutions based on face, voice, or net-use recognition.
25 • Ubuntu (by udev on 2021-10-26 06:02:28 GMT from Australia)
It is sad to see you all bashing Ubuntu, it's gets a bad rap whatever it does. Its still the best distro by a long shot and just works for most people that want to use a stable consistent OS and get there work done.
The new flavor of users seem to think there cool because they run some A distro with community repository's that undoubtedly would contain malware... good luck with that.lol
26 • Ubuntu (by whoKnows on 2021-10-26 06:37:30 GMT from Switzerland)
Operating system is not a religious matter -- beliefs won't change the facts. The operating system is an application starter, that should provide the basic set of tools and functionalities, and stay out of the way.
Ubuntu is the only Linux based OS that is reliable and stays out of the way, it has more applications in its repositories than most of the others, and it has the easiest way to add more if needed.
And -- it has Snap's, which are the best of all currently available crutches in Linux world -- because Linux is "broken by the concept" and without Snap's or Flatpak's, basically useless.
Ubuntu needs only little resources, and Snap's offer the latest Software and simple control over the basic permissions. Without Ubuntu, no "Linux" (on the desktop).
https://ibb.co/MgCH1tp
https://ibb.co/D1dS4Nm
27 • @20 • PinePhone & Snaps (by AdrienM) (by whoKnows on 2021-10-26 07:10:51 GMT from Switzerland)
"As for the Canonical/Mozilla move to a snap-only Firefox, I guess that means my own and several computers I maintain for others will ride out 20.04 till the last breath, and then jump to another distro when 20.04 finally dies. It isn't just the running or app-startup sluggishness of Snaps, even Firefox in particular, but rather the screeching molasses halt the Snap Framework inflicts on any hardware older than 2 years missing top-of-the-line specs. Having to wait 5-10 minutes for an OS to boot due to Snap is beyond patently absurd and why everything 'snap' is the first thing I remove from a fresh/upgraded Ubuntu system. (there are other absurd slowdowns Canonical is guilty of on boot, but Snap is by far the biggest offender)
Flatpak and AppImage don't have this problem. (and .deb packages sure don't either!)
Another problem with Snap Firefox are the auto-updates. Their present UI is abhorrent and unusable. They've destroyed the very notion of 'tabs' they practically pioneered. (so has Safari for that matter) I don't want to have to keep 'fixing' their UI changes and I don't want to have to be surprised by a new UI from an auto-update. Not being jerks with their UI is a tall order for Mozilla, but if Canonical could allow me to disable the thing from updating without my prior consent, that could help."
Snap's do not affect the boot times in any way. The only drawback / weakness of Snap's is that the first start of some application takes a couple of additional seconds. Thanks to Snap's, you can and should stay on 20.04 until it doesn't get any more support. It'll be supported until 30.04, and thanks to Snap's, you'll still have the latest applications, get the latest OS security updates and will never ever have to reinstall. In 2030, it'll be the latest time to finally get yourself some new PC. Flatpak would be a worse alternative, but AppImage ... never really worked, and .deb's ... would still be at 20.04 in 30.04. And the best of all -- you don't even have to bother about your applications -- all Snap's auto-update and -- IT All JUST WORKS magic lets you concentrate on your work instead of fixing the OS.
And ... if you have a problem with tabs -- then YOU have it.
https://ibb.co/NTrChGc
Just as with your boot-times and what not other non-existing issues you might have.
28 • @22 • Phony (by Tech in San Diego from United States) (by whoKnows on 2021-10-26 07:26:36 GMT from Switzerland)
You're kinda lucky to be living in a (technologically) "third world" (or fourth?) country.
I recently had to dispose the last "old joy", because of, either the networks get shut down or because of SIM incompatibility.
29 • 20 • PinePhone & Snaps (by AdrienM) (by Henry on 2021-10-26 07:45:47 GMT from Belgium)
The same here. I am currently on Ubuntu 20.04, with the snaps services and applications removed.
removal of snaps means faster boot times. Plus I would only use portable apps for the exceptions where there is no other choice, due to the default versions of libs on the system not being compatible with the software you want to use. And for that I use AppImage.
Defaulting to Snap for regular applications just adds unnecessary disadvantages for the user ( performance/safety/etc). I also see the advantages of Snap, however the cons outweigh the pro, in my case.
Luckily Ubuntu 20.04 is still supported till 2025, and after that I will have to find something different, which will probably debian.
30 • @29 • PinePhone & Snaps (by Henry Belgium) (by whoKnows on 2021-10-26 09:18:29 GMT from Switzerland)
"removal of snaps means faster boot times. Plus I would only use portable apps for the exceptions where there is no other choice, due to the default versions of libs on the system not being compatible with the software you want to use. And for that I use AppImage.
Defaulting to Snap for regular applications just adds unnecessary disadvantages for the user ( performance/safety/etc)."
I don't mind your opinion, as long as you don't start spreading "fake news". ;)
You don't really understand how your OS and Snap's work, right?
Cold-boot duration approx. 25 sec, from pressing the power button to log-in screen. The first half of those 25 seconds, is the BIOS/UEFI hardware check and initialization sequence. Log-in to desktop adds a few more seconds. Ubuntu 20.04 (with Gnome, systemd and Snap's), on approx. 10-year-old Lenovo T-420.
How's that slow? Removing Snap's, doesn't make those approx. 12 sec boot time any shorther.
And Snap's ... they aren't slow-starters nor less secure. They are more secure, as they run inside a sandbox in user-space. Snap's are installed in your home folder and basically never touch the system. One installs them without sudo. They are starting slower only on a first start upon reboot, because, before some application can start, its "runtime" has to be started first. After closing the application, "runtime" will keep running. The next start will be almost just as quick, as the native application(s).
If you have some issues with Snap's, then it's that specific Snap package(s), and if you have some issues with long boot, then it's not because of Snap's.
31 • @26 (by Simon on 2021-10-26 09:35:21 GMT from New Zealand)
Without Ubuntu, no Linux on the desktop? There were plenty of great Linux desktops before Ubuntu existed, and there are plenty of great alternatives now. Ubuntu is undoubtedly one of the best for beginners, and it's one of the few I'd recommend to businesses wanting to deploy widely...but that has more to do with paid support and market share (e.g. the fact that companies release their software as Ubuntu packages) than anything inherently great about the OS. It is a great distro, certainly one of the best...but you're overstating its greatness to claim there's no Linux desktop without it. Without it, businesses would simply be running one of the many other Debian or Red Hat derivatives (or Debian or Red Hat themselves) on their desktops, and individual users would be running...well, any of the many distros listed on this site that aren't based on Ubuntu.
32 • Ubuntu and Gnome 40 (by penguinx86 on 2021-10-26 10:52:17 GMT from United States)
It's nice that Ubuntu is upgrading to Gnome 40. But I'll have to pass, because it "continues to use a permanent dock on the left side of the screen."
33 • @17 MX21 KDE (by kc1di on 2021-10-26 12:19:08 GMT from United States)
@17 wrote:
"I was going to switch to MX21 from Kubuntu, but for whatever reason the wifi on my laptop will not auto-reconnect."
If you right click on the Network Icon in the panel select configure networks the select your wirleless connection and click on general tab. Check the box labeled All users are allowed to use this network. It will reconnect automatically. Give it a try.
34 • @32 • Ubuntu and Gnome 40 (by penguinx86) (by whoKnows on 2021-10-26 12:43:57 GMT from Switzerland)
It's nice that Ubuntu is upgrading to Gnome 40. But I'll have to pass, because it "continues to use a permanent dock on the left side of the screen."
I somehow can't really understand the "dock issue".
https://ibb.co/nzTV42g
Plus ... Ubuntu customizations are completely removable, if one desires so.
35 • @31 • @26 (by Simon from New Zealand) (by whoKnows on 2021-10-26 13:25:15 GMT from Switzerland)
Yes, Simon, I did exaggerate slightly, but ...
Before the first Ubuntu come out, most people didn't even know that Linux exists, even if there were some Mandriva's, Red Hat's and SuSe's collecting dust on the shelves of local stores.
Fast-forward, there's still no real alternative to Ubuntu, as long as we are talking about the Desktop and the "Linux for the human beings".
There is one or the other alternative, but they are all having some serious drawbacks, which make them less than optimal for the majority of people.
Rosa functions pretty well ... as long as you don't have some issue. Then "good night" if you're an average. And that old-fashioned "DNF-Store" is also not what people expect in 2021. Upgrading it is a challenge for most ...
Mint functions pretty well ... Upgrading it, will be a challenge for most, and it looks pretty "dusty". Can be changed though ...
Fedora functions pretty well ... missing many popular applications in the own repositories, has a ton of updates almost every single day, asks for the restart even if one only needs to install the new web browser version and the things relatively often go wrong ...
Rad Hat clones function pretty well ... if there is someone to set it up. OOTB doesn't play anything (except maybe mp3) and it doesn't even recognize the NTFS. Printer setup will work, after one installed CUPS and set it up on autostart first. The original repositories are empty, except for some K-disaster, that'll pull the GB's of junk. No Flatpak, no fun ...
Much more there isn't left ... some "Hobbystributions" and exotic "nice that it exists" stuff. Gentoo is absolutely great -- if Google takes it and make Chrome OS out of it, otherwise, thanks, but no, thanks.
Most Distrohopers are Distrohopping because nothing really worked. If it was about distro-trying ... well, why are those dozen of PC's lying around and many dozens of VM's?
I fully agree that there might be the one or the other alternative, for the one or the other user that knows what he or she is doing, but in that case, we don't really talk about "Linux on desktop" in general terms anymore.
The businesses can run anything -- that's why there is a support, which will take care of anything and everything.
36 • Snaps Gnome Kubuntu (by Zac on 2021-10-26 14:59:02 GMT from Australia)
In Kubuntu I have installed snap versions of Visual Studio Code and PyCharm, and start up time for these are fine. In fact Visual Studio Code is very quick, even after reboot. However I do not like auto updating.. I'll be fine with just a notification. As a size comparision, the Flatpack version of PyCharm is double the size of the Snap version.
Gnome DE is the worst, and that's my opinion after 16 years of it. I have moved to KDE with Kubuntu, and its light years ahead. KDE does have issues but maybe if Ubuntu would make KDE is default DE, it may be better. I think they should go with Ubuntu with KDE and Gubuntu with Gnome. :)
37 • @36 • Snaps Gnome Kubuntu (by Zac from Australia) (by whoKnows on 2021-10-26 16:02:18 GMT from Switzerland)
There might be no straight way, but only a way around ... or workaround? ;)
Please check "Option 1: --devmode" and "Option 2: refresh.hold".
38 • Snap's --devmode & refresh.hold (by whoKnows on 2021-10-26 16:04:32 GMT from Switzerland)
I forgot to add the link. :( :( :(
Missing link:
https://askubuntu.com/questions/1131182/how-can-i-disable-automatic-update-for-a-single-snap-in-ubuntu
39 • Gnome 4 / Ub (by grindstone on 2021-10-26 16:47:08 GMT from United States)
The Gnome experience has been off the rails for ages. Experimentation is to be encouraged if the use-cases and testing can support the changes, but it seems any remaining hope for sanity would be misplaced. Gratitude is due the *buntu-verse for the work, however poorly-directed. It was a good idea at the time and changed a lot of lives. They have my gratitude for all the sweat and work and long hours, but it's not for me anymore nor leaning any way that looks redeemable.
40 • @22 • Phony (by Tech in San Diego on 2021-10-26 02:10:36 GMT from United States) (by R. Cain on 2021-10-26 17:13:45 GMT from United States)
@22---
"Been using my Motorola "flip" phone for 20 years. It does just what I need it to do make calls and send an occasional text message. The battery life is just over a week and my plan costs just $10 bucks a month."
You must be really lucky to have gotten a 3G flip-phone just as 3G was being introduced. Yours can NOT be 2G, as that has not been supported in quite a while. And it certainly can't be a '1G'---analog---telephone. (One can always pick out the "brand-new 2G phones" on Amazon: they're the ones with the very lowest prices---because they simply do not work any more. Period.)
And by the way, I was just informed by my carrier that my 3G flip-phone will have to be upgraded, as that carrier is discontinuing 3G in February of 2022, and going solely to 4G.
Seems as though your Motorola flip-phone "...for 20 years..." is getting ready to not do what you need it to do any more.-phone
41 • @33 (by Tad Strange on 2021-10-26 17:23:00 GMT from Canada)
Thank you for the assist.
I did do some poking in the network configuration, but do not recall whether or not I saw that option. I put the XFCE version on it last night, and it works, but it's just not doing it for me, so I'll give Plasma another go.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Snap is the new SystemD I guess.
My own experience is with Opera, and I'm not impressed with load times, or window redraw times after it has been minimised for awhile. It makes me think I'm on a 10 year old computer with a slow mechanical hard drive.
Maybe that's on Opera, and I should try a few other snaps for giggles, but it still doesn't give a glowing commendation of "just works".
42 • Snap's and the "first run" issue (by whoKnows on 2021-10-26 18:04:11 GMT from Switzerland)
"We are aware that snap applications usually take longer to open than their conventional counterparts on FIRST RUN."
https://snapcraft.io/blog/i-have-a-need-a-need-for-snap
Neglible, if you think of all the advantages.
43 • well.. (by Tad Strange on 2021-10-26 19:49:51 GMT from Canada)
You're quite the persistent evangelist, but you missed the second part about the ongoing performance issues when toggling between the snap app and other workloads
And that's not negligible
The rest amounts to excuses for poor performance
I can only imagine if all of my applications behaved the same way
44 • @30 Snaps (by AdrienM on 2021-10-26 20:23:04 GMT from United States)
Maybe you glossed over the part of my comment where I indicated with the Snap Framework installed, boot time on a 5 year old PC was nearly 10 minutes. After removing Snap entirely, boot is now about 90 seconds, That's still too slow, but tolerable until I can do more tweaking. If you boot in 25sec, consider yourself lucky. Not everyone is so fortunate.
SystemD provides commands to show you the boot process and what items hold it up. When I ran those commands on this particular machine (among others in the past), Snap was the biggest offender each and every time. Yes, the Snap Framework can and does affect boot times. You can disagree all you want, but SystemD and my personal experience say otherwise. I didn't just 'guess' and 'anecdotally' presume Snap was to blame.
And for the record, I really like browser tabs. I wish Mozilla would return to using them instead of floating buttons disconnected from the content. (especially when you can't tell what the active 'button' is without staring intently for a few seconds each time - this is a reported bug by the way, one which Mozilla can't comprehend and/or simply refuses to fix.)
45 • Pinephone (by penguinx86 on 2021-10-26 21:33:19 GMT from United States)
I like the idea of the Pinephone, but what about the apps? Without an app stores like Google or Apple, mainstream apps probably won't run on a Pinephone. Apps are the whole point of a Smartphone. I had a Firefox Phone for a while. Sure it was a good 'phone' but I was limited to a small handful of pre-installed apps. I could not install Facebook, Skype, Angry Birds, my banks app or other popular apps that all my friends use. Windows Phone had the same problem. Now I have a Kindle Fire tablet, which lacks the Google or Apple app stores. At least the Amazon app store has 'some' of the apps available to Android and iPhone users. But many mainstream apps are still missing. Maybe that's why Amazon's Fire Phone flopped? Without access to mainstream apps, I just don't see using a Pinephone as a daily driver.
46 • Startup time without snaps (by Ostro on 2021-10-26 22:14:54 GMT from Poland)
Startup time without snaps and Plymouth on Ubuntu 21.10.
$ systemd-analyze time
Startup finished in 2.892s (kernel) + 7.629s (userspace) = 10.521s
graphical.target reached after 7.614s in userspace
47 • @35 (by Simon on 2021-10-26 22:30:31 GMT from New Zealand)
Again you're claiming that "there's still no real alternative to Ubuntu, as long as we are talking about the Desktop and the 'Linux for the human beings'". This is just not true. I've used Linux for decades, and have introduced many friends and family members to it...and to my knowledge none of us are currently choosing to run Ubuntu on any of our systems (and only two people are running Ubuntu-based distros, Mint and Elementary), despite its free availability...and we're all human beings. What is it about Ubuntu that makes you think it's so much better than other distros? Maybe it happens to configure things the way you like them: that's great, but not everyone is you. Even if we define "human beings" as "people who are incompetent with Linux" (and so exclude the many people who reject Ubuntu for reasons like systemd that don't register in new users' awareness), it's simply false that Ubuntu is the only (or even "best") beginner distro. Have you tried MX, the one that's been sitting at the very top of the Distrowatch list for so long? It's an outstandingly good OS "out of the box", fully configured and easy to use...and it's based on Debian, so would continue to provide a great, easy desktop for new Linux users if Ubuntu didn't exist.
Debian itself is a pleasure to run on the desktop, dependable and easy...and most of the closed source vendors who provide packages for Linux distributions (for Skype, Zoom and so on) provide Debian packages (sometimes it's the same package for Debian or Ubuntu, bearing in mind that Ubuntu is based on Debian). Beginner distros like MX and Ubuntu make these things a little quicker and easier to set up, but anyone with minimal GNU/Linux competence can configure a great Debian desktop, and if people aren't willing to develop even the minimal competence necessary for that, what are they doing on a Linux-based OS in the first place? Windows and MacOS already exist for people who want their decisions made for them by others: Ubuntu (and e.g. the GNOME project) aims for that kind of thing on Linux, but it's not what serves everyone best. Linux is an alternative OS to the mainstream Windows and MacOS communities: you acknowledge the value in that, but deny the value in alternative distros to Ubuntu (which has become a roughly analogous "mainsteam" distro, along with Red Hat in government deployments etc.).
You mention Gentoo: yes, definitely not a beginner distro...but a much better desktop than Ubuntu for many experienced Linux users, because it makes it so much easier to set up exactly the desktop that you want, customised to your preferences in every conceivable way, and then maintain that unique setup over time, without having to do it all over again whenever there's an OS version update. I get the feeling that Ubuntu was probably the first distro you loved and felt comfortable using, and since then everything done the Ubuntu way just feels right to you, and everything done differently feels wrong...but if your claims were true, we'd all be running Ubuntu on our desktops. We aren't. Millions of Linux users choose to run other distros on our desktops.
48 • @44 • @30 Snaps (by AdrienM from United States) (by whoKnows on 2021-10-27 03:46:29 GMT from Switzerland)
I'd prefer to put it the other way round: not I was lucky, but you weren't.
I have dozens of real, physical machines (school), and none of them had slow boot issue due to Snap.
I did read what you wrote, and I know the systemd 'blame', and I'm sure that you didn't bring your claim out of the blue, but I still claim, it is not Snap that is responsible for your slow booting. Namely, we don't really talk about the same ...
Of course, it can be some borked installation somewhere, where the Snap will be the culprit, just as it can be some other borked installation somewhere, where the networking stack will be the reason, or video, or ... but those are borked installations. I am talking about a correctly installed OS, where nothing is / was broken.
As of Mozilla tabs ... well, it's Mozilla. A couple of years so, then something else, and then the next "improvement" that makes everything even worse ... Has little to do with Ubuntu / Gnome / Snap.
49 • @46 • Startup time without snaps (by Ostro from Poland) (by whoKnows on 2021-10-27 04:27:51 GMT from Switzerland)
I am not really sure, what are you trying to tell me here.
That your result is perfectly in line with my previous: Cold-boot duration approx. 25 sec, from pressing the power button to log-in screen. The first half of those 25 seconds, is the BIOS/UEFI hardware check and initialization sequence. Yes, it is.
Or, are you trying to tell me how an ugly OS is booting quicker? Beside Snap, you could also remove the networking stack -- it would boot even quicker. ;)
Even a MB type / brand can alone make more than a couple of seconds difference in boot times (according to c't, heise.de). A few seconds more or less, doesn't make it really "slow", nor "quick".
Or are you trying to tell me, how 10.521 sec is "quick", and 12.452 is "slow"? I don't really consider that any real (practical) difference at all, except technically, on the paper, the pure (irrelevant) number(s). Can't make a coffee in those 2 sec, neither in 25, and so, the computer is always ready, before I am.
--
systemd-analyze time
Startup finished in 2.828s (kernel) + 9.624s (userspace) = 12.452s
graphical.target reached after 9.213s in userspace
--
systemd-analyze blame
4.567s plymouth-quit-wait.service
2.034s snapd.service
1.969s plymouth-read-write.service
1.714s snap-gnome\x2d3\x2d28\x2d1804-161.mount
1.696s snap-snapd-13640.mount
1.668s snap-snap\x2dstore-542.mount
1.601s snap-qt513-23.mount
1.596s snap-snap\x2dstore-547.mount
1.490s dev-sda5.device
1.465s snap-gtk\x2dcommon\x2dthemes-1519.mount
1.416s snap-gnome\x2d3\x2d34\x2d1804-66.mount
1.284s snap-gnome\x2d3\x2d38\x2d2004-70.mount
1.218s dev-loop8.device
1.209s snap-inkscape-9090.mount
1.148s apport.service
1.133s snap-gnome\x2d3\x2d38\x2d2004-76.mount
1.057s snap-qt513-24.mount
1.038s dev-loop4.device
1.002s dev-loop9.device
951ms dev-loop12.device
949ms man-db.service
914ms dev-loop5.device
882ms snap-kde\x2dframeworks\x2d5\x2dqt\x2d5\x2d15\x2dcore20-14.mount
879ms fwupd.service
868ms dev-loop11.device
867ms dev-loop10.device
864ms snapd.seeded.service
847ms dev-loop3.device
843ms dev-loop14.device
842ms snap-inkscape-9256.mount
841ms dev-loop2.device
838ms dev-loop0.device
827ms dev-loop7.device
825ms dev-loop6.device
771ms dev-loop13.device
750ms dev-loop15.device
689ms snap-ksnip-386.mount
684ms dev-loop1.device
631ms snap-ksnip-340.mount
621ms udisks2.service
618ms snap-snapd-13270.mount
592ms snap-kde\x2dframeworks\x2d5\x2dcore18-32.mount
562ms networkd-dispatcher.service
515ms dev-loop16.device
479ms logrotate.service
455ms accounts-daemon.service
440ms snap-core18-2128.mount
440ms dev-loop17.device
412ms ua-messaging.service
404ms systemd-logind.service
388ms tlp.service
380ms dev-loop18.device
380ms snap-core18-2246.mount
368ms upower.service
358ms snap-gtk\x2dcommon\x2dthemes-1515.mount
354ms ModemManager.service
343ms snap-bare-5.mount
332ms snap-core20-1081.mount
328ms snap-gimp-372.mount
300ms NetworkManager.service
300ms dev-loop19.device
290ms dev-loop20.device
283ms avahi-daemon.service
278ms bluetooth.service
247ms polkit.service
238ms switcheroo-control.service
229ms dev-loop21.device
213ms systemd-journald.service
205ms systemd-udev-trigger.service
201ms e2scrub_reap.service
186ms thermald.service
175ms swapfile.swap
171ms user@1000.service
168ms wpa_supplicant.service
166ms grub-common.service
166ms systemd-resolved.service
163ms colord.service
144ms keyboard-setup.service
143ms dev-loop22.device
141ms kerneloops.service
137ms systemd-timesyncd.service
135ms systemd-udevd.service
130ms snap-gnome\x2d3\x2d34\x2d1804-72.mount
126ms snapd.apparmor.service
124ms apparmor.service
116ms snap-core20-1169.mount
112ms snap-gnome\x2d3\x2d28\x2d1804-145.mount
106ms gpu-manager.service
101ms rsyslog.service
97ms systemd-modules-load.service
89ms gdm.service
84ms pppd-dns.service
71ms sysstat.service
68ms packagekit.service
62ms dev-loop23.device
58ms alsa-restore.service
49ms modprobe@drm.service
45ms user-runtime-dir@1000.service
40ms usb_modeswitch@2-1.4.service
39ms systemd-fsck@dev-disk-by\x2duuid-5625\x2d8F5B.service
39ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
32ms systemd-sysctl.service
30ms systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service
25ms dev-loop24.device
24ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup-dev.service
22ms setvtrgb.service
22ms dev-hugepages.mount
21ms plymouth-start.service
21ms systemd-user-sessions.service
21ms dev-mqueue.mount
20ms sys-kernel-debug.mount
19ms systemd-remount-fs.service
19ms sys-kernel-tracing.mount
17ms ufw.service
16ms openvpn.service
16ms systemd-update-utmp.service
16ms boot-efi.mount
15ms console-setup.service
15ms systemd-backlight@backlight:acpi_video0.service
15ms kmod-static-nodes.service
14ms systemd-sysusers.service
13ms systemd-random-seed.service
13ms sys-fs-fuse-connections.mount
12ms grub-initrd-fallback.service
12ms sys-kernel-config.mount
9ms rtkit-daemon.service
7ms systemd-backlight@backlight:intel_backlight.service
6ms dev-loop25.device
6ms systemd-journal-flush.service
1ms snapd.socket
50 • @47 • @35 (by Simon from New Zealand) (by whoKnows on 2021-10-27 05:43:09 GMT from Switzerland)
Most (and average) people / users are what matters, and not the 2 % of 2 %.
If you (re) read my previous writings carefully, you'll find out, that all was already answered, incl.: I fully agree that there might be the one or the other alternative, for the one or the other user that knows what he or she is doing, but in that case, we don't really talk about "Linux on desktop" in general terms anymore.
If you read what other OS's can't, you'll also find out, why the Ubuntu is better (== more suitable for the most users). Already the only usable updater, the biggest software choice, AND SNAP's are the reasons enough.
https://ibb.co/sy1H1Jv
MX is "Hobbystribution", badly preconfigured and comes with a bunch of crap called "Tools". Debian is great ... as a server. Or a basis to start building something useful. Gentoo is for ... "freaks"? To put it very mildly ...
Nobody I ever knew, and through my (previous) support role, that's many thousands of people, nobody ever worked with their OS -- all those people worked with applications. The OS has to be "invisible", stay out of the way. That's what makes Ubuntu better. The very moment when one becomes aware of the OS, it is a bad OS.
51 • @43 • well.. (by Tad Strange from Canada) (by whoKnows on 2021-10-27 08:00:19 GMT from Switzerland)
"You're quite the persistent evangelist, but you missed the second part about the ongoing performance issues when toggling between the snap app and other workloads
And that's not negligible ..."
No, not really, it's probably just the fact that I'm not misinterpreting the importance of all those numbers for the "real life scenario".
All those numbers are important ... if you need them for the product improvement. But, they are also completely irrelevant in the day-to-day computer use (in most cases).
Namely, I'm not all day starting and shutting down some applications. I'll start the half-dozen or a dozen applications which I need, and they'll stay open. Why ever closing them? It's not so that I have 2 GB RAM and have to close the applications all the time -- if that's the case for someone, then it's time for a new PC. The applications stay open, at the end of the day, I'll close the lid, and open it on the next day. The PC was in standby and everything is still open, just as I left on the previous day. No need to restart, except for the application updates or on reboot, because of the system update.
Some "it takes one more click" to start ... or a couple of seconds more to start some application from time, won't make my day. There are many other "small distractions", that'll eat up more time.
Like with the boot times ... 25 sec or 2 1/2 min, doesn't really make any difference. Go and make a coffee or tea, go pick up a can of beer or pour a glass of whiskey, check the weather outside, or whatever ... It very rarely really matters ...
52 • @48 AdrianM (by dragonmouth on 2021-10-27 12:10:42 GMT from United States)
"I am talking about a correctly installed OS, where nothing is / was broken."
Maybe the difference is not whether the OS is installed correctly or incorrectly. Maybe the difference is the hardware SNAPS and systemd are run on. It wouldn't be the first time that some Linux users complain that some piece of software does not run or misbehaves on their PCs while many other users have no problems with the same software. With the myriads of possible hardware combinations, it is almost certain that some combinations do not take kindly to SNAPS and/or systemd. To put it another way - it is impossible to write software that will account for all the quirks of all the hardware.
53 • 52 • @48 AdrianM (by dragonmouth from United States) (by whoKnows on 2021-10-27 14:45:19 GMT from Switzerland)
IN MOST CASES, if there is some long delay during the boot sequence, one can find it with only one command.
sudo systemd-analyze plot >> boot-chart.svg
54 • Ubuntu 21.10 (by Wolf™² on 2021-10-27 16:22:06 GMT from United States)
Not sure how the reviewer came to the conclusion that it's "...another solid Ubuntu release". It's not. They didn't even take the time to to customize the Gnome file manager to undo the neutering of it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a hater of Gnome, never have been. I even liked Unity. However, the developers of Gnome are butchering the DE more and more with each release.
Yes, we all have our opinions. Most of the reviews that have been put out are not positive towards it. I personally am still running it on a test machine. I've given it enough time to hang itself in my opinion. So to speak. I will be wiping it soon.
Just my 2cents.
55 • PinePhone, MakuluLinux, ChimeraLinux (by somebody on 2021-10-27 17:23:36 GMT from Hungary)
1.) PinePhone
Don't know why official Pine video wasn't linked, but here it is:
https://www.youtu be.com/watch?v=RwtKpQBIDqw
Looks good. I wish them the best.
ShortCircuit 's video: This $200 phone can do ANYTHING!!! - Pine64 Pinephone - is not fresh but still a video to watch. Really.
2.) Makulu Shift Ubuntu Variant is out.
3.) Chimera looks interesting. Will there be here a review?
56 • Each to his own (by Friar Tux on 2021-10-27 20:29:16 GMT from Canada)
Wow, these past few weeks DW has really sparked the passion in us Linux users. This week even more so. Snaps... yup, I don't use them because in MY opinion it makes MY machine ssslllooowww as molasses in a Canadian January. (Stock HP Pavilion laptop.) I don't use Flatpaks because on MY machine they don't pick up the system theme. I do use AppImages as they seem to work EXACTLY as I want them to. (That is, IF I need an app/program that is not in the distro repository on are occasion.) Also, I don't know about Snaps and Flatpak, but I keep my AppImages backed up with my normal data backups which allows me to simply restore them when and where I need to - and the still work wonderfully. (No, I don't need the latest and greatest to get my work done.
@47 (Simon) "... and if people aren't willing to develop even the minimal competence necessary for that, what are they doing on a Linux-based OS in the first place?"
I can answer that, Simon. Some of us do NOT want to spend our time keeping our distro working. I, for instance, want a distro that will work every time I hit the "Go" button. I want it to work after each update/upgrade. Debian/Ubuntu based distros seem to be the only ones I can trust not to glitch on me while I'm in the middle of something. And of those, Linux Mint, in particular, is the absolute best - as in, I have installed it on many machines, many times, and have NEVER had even one issue, ever, in the last five years. (Or is it, maybe, that SystemD actually is really good?) So, it has nothing to do with "minimal competence" so much as getting stuff done without having to mess with the OS to do so. If I HAVE to mess with my OS, I might as well use MSWindows.
Anyway, keep up the passion, people.
57 • Ubuntu 21.10 (by fumble on 2021-10-27 21:22:01 GMT from United Kingdom)
Say what you like about this release, BUT it was the first distro of several I tried that handled a HiDPI display properly, rendering even the Grub stuff readable. The Ub screens were handled perfectly!
58 • Ubuntu 21.10 (by whoKnows on 2021-10-28 09:28:05 GMT from Switzerland)
I don't mind anybody using whatever they prefer -- just as Friar Tux said: Each to his/her own, but I mind all those "alternate facts" by some.
So, if anyone is interested to find out some facts, I prepared some small set of files for download.
Inside you get Ubuntu 21.10 related files, preinstalled and "after" state -- with some additional software installed. Snap's list and a couple of screenshots will help you to see the difference.
There are also one Linux Mint 20 and few Fedora 34 installations for comparison -- Gnome, LXDE, Mate & Xfce.
All of them are virtual machines (VM) and slower than on physical hardware, but all of them are on the same host, and have the same amount of resources assigned -- that makes them easily comparable.
The only exception is Springdale 8.4 (Red Hat 8.4), which comes as a physical (AMD) and as a virtual machine (VM).
Knowing this and reading the titles, it shouldn't be hard to say which is which or what is what.
Download: https://gofile.io/d/rBBi7g
File name: analyze.zip
File type: ZIP
File size: 2.71 MB (2838818 bytes)
MD5 808f17c2aed740224eab1720c8b5200f
SHA-1 23848b7a5baa48daeafd05b8fce06ae8a18fdf9b
SHA-256 1add6c09927dceda3f0a8798a69286fe27af8c3f75342fd9adca5dd191173b6d
59 • Snap or no Snap boot times (Ubuntu 21.10) (by whoKnows on 2021-10-28 09:44:05 GMT from Switzerland)
Basically, Snap's / no Snap's difference comes down to:
Ubuntu 21.10 default preinstall (VM):
snap list
Name Version Revision Tracking Herausgeber Hinweise
bare 1.0 5 latest/stable canonical* base
core 16-2.51.7 11743 latest/stable canonical* core
core20 20210928 1169 latest/stable canonical* base
firefox 93.0-1 631 latest/stable/… mozilla* -
gnome-3-38-2004 0+git.6ba6040 76 latest/stable/… canonical* -
gtk-common-themes 0.1-59-g7bca6ae 1519 latest/stable/… canonical* -
snap-store 3.38.0-66-gbd5b8f7 557 latest/stable/… canonical* -
systemd-analyze time
Startup finished in 2.678s (kernel) + 19.593s (userspace) = 22.272s
graphical.target reached after 19.560s in userspace
Ubuntu 21.10 "ready for basic tasks" (VM):
snap list
Name Version Revision Tracking Herausgeber Hinweise
bare 1.0 5 latest/stable canonical* base
brave 1.31.87 134 latest/stable brave -
code 6cba118a 78 latest/stable vscode* classic
core 16-2.52.1 11993 latest/stable canonical* core
core18 20211015 2246 latest/stable canonical* base
core20 20210928 1169 latest/stable canonical* base
firefox 93.0-1 631 latest/stable/… mozilla* -
gimp 2.10.24 372 latest/stable snapcrafters -
gnome-3-28-1804 3.28.0-19-g98f9e67.98f9e67 161 latest/stable canonical* -
gnome-3-38-2004 0+git.6ba6040 76 latest/stable/… canonical* -
gtk-common-themes 0.1-59-g7bca6ae 1519 latest/stable/… canonical* -
inkscape 1.1.1-eb90963e84-2021-10-02 9256 latest/stable inkscape* -
snap-store 3.38.0-66-gbd5b8f7 557 latest/stable/… canonical* -
systemd-analyze time
Startup finished in 2.674s (kernel) + 20.568s (userspace) = 23.243s
graphical.target reached after 20.546s in userspace
Installing two dozen Snaps would probably add a couple more seconds, which is, in MY eyes, no real difference or of great importance in some "real life scenario".
60 • @45 Kindle Fire (by just another droid on 2021-10-28 13:01:23 GMT from United Kingdom)
The OS on Kindle Fire is just a heavily tweaked android. I have a Fire 7 tablet - I installed the Google Play store app on it and from there you have access to all the apps from that store. Or you could use the apps from F-Droid.
61 • MX (by Tad Strange on 2021-10-28 13:49:47 GMT from Canada)
Quick thanks to the fine individual who gave me the network manager tip for MX Plasma edition - it's all working fine now.
DWW comment section has helped me more than once
And I concur with Friar Tux
The closer that a general purpose computer gets to being akin to an appliance, in the way that the automobile has become akin to an appliance, the better. You still need maintenance and mechanics, but it's a far cry from the Model T (or prior) days.
Most people just want to turn the key and go. Some accept a little wrenching, and some want to build off of a bare chassis. All philosophies coexist.
62 • Never change DW (by CS on 2021-10-29 03:13:09 GMT from United States)
Looks like there was a good old fashioned flame war this week. Wonder what all the fuss was about. Something important, no doubt.
What I can't figure about these phones is whether they're any good as phones. Seems like the first thing is you have to decide which of the 20 operating systems you want to install. Would any of them let me use google maps on the go? Order an Uber? No clue. Phones are at least as much about the apps as the hardware. These things seem to be bricks for hobbyists.
63 • @62 • Never change DW (by CS from United States) (by whoKnows on 2021-10-29 07:45:03 GMT from Switzerland)
"What I can't figure about these phones is whether they're any good as phones. Seems like the first thing is you have to decide which of the 20 operating systems you want to install. Would any of them let me use google maps on the go? Order an Uber? No clue. Phones are at least as much about the apps as the hardware. These things seem to be bricks for hobbyists."
I'll try to explain ...
You could probably try to describe them as the "Toys 4 Geeks" (2%, of 2% of 2%).
If you were watching their ShortCircuit 's YouTube video, the first thing upon boot is -- no boot -- and you gotta figure it out on how to fix it on your own. And ... figure out which of those 300 distributions (and only 1 kinda half-working) to install. Nothing for the average "human beings".
* Before someone again misunderstands that "human beings" part:
https://mockup-api.teespring.com/v3/image/J5POgB7DJbeZGDWpPKxvE2T9Vuc/960/1120.jpg
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/77gcn4/does_ubuntu_still_use_linux_for_human_beings_as/
These phones are useless for 98+ % of smartphone users, as there is and will never be an app for anything and everything.
These phones are useless for the people who just need a phone to make a call, as there are smaller and cheaper phones, with longer battery life, that'll do the better job on that.
Those phones are useless for the "real geeks", because ...
It would actually be a very nice toy, having a smartphone with 12 GB of RAM, 256 GB of storage and some Snapdragon 855+ (e.g. Realme X3 SuperZoom; 400 $ class!), or 865+, or 888 ..., with Ubuntu as operating system, where one could run full-fledged desktop apps, and have a possibility to hook up the ext. monitor, keyboard and mouse to it. That way, one would get some so-so phone (because of missing mobile apps), that can cover the very basic mobile phone requirements, but one would also get a full-fledged desktop environment in the pocket.
Just how great that would be, if a student could go to the faculty, hook up the smartphone and present the Impressive or LO presentation, instead of carrying the notebook / laptop.
Just how great that would be, if one could go to the customer, hook up the smartphone and start discussing already prepared and ready materials straight away.
There are many other scenarios I could think of, and I think, that the direction is pretty self-explanatory.
But, if you take a look what you get when you buy such Fair-, Pine- or WhatNo(t)Phones is usually quadruple price for a phone that struggles to open some simple application, because of no ... processing power, no memory, no storage ... you name it.
I'd like those kill-switches on the latest Apple, Samsung or some other High-End phone, that would also be able to run full-fledged desktop OS, and that would last for a couple of years, because of those HW specs, and because I exchange the battery, screen, cameras ... if they get broken, or if there is a better quality module, or ...
And as of those kill-switches ... What kill-switches do you actually need? Camera? Put the sticker over it, and there's no more Face-ID. Microphone? Wish you luck making a phone call. Networking? Why not carry a real brick? It's cheaper and just as useful ... if not more. If you hit someone with a brick, it'll make more damage than the plastic phone. ;)
So, yeah ... one can always try to sell something to someone. ;)
All that said, Google Maps should work in a web browser ... if there is enough RAM ... ;)
64 • Ubuntu.....try Debian instead! (by Anis on 2021-10-29 16:59:31 GMT from Germany)
I started my linux journey with Ubuntu back in 2008. I loved ubuntu back then however the distro was using Gnome 2, which is was awesome.Now with the combination a bad desktop envirmont i.e. Gnome 3 / 40, and a highly customized desktop leads only to issues. Gnome has manged to make me steer away for the desktop envirment completely, I would rather prefer to use KDE or XFCE or any other desktop. Maybe its time for ubuntu to switch their main desktop over to KDE?
Anyways I dont really care much for ubuntu, I've switch over to Debian for server and desktop and will most likely never switch back. Debian is stable, small in size, uses less resoures, documentation can be found all over the internet and I trust the distro.
So like the title say give debian a try instead..... in my opinion even the horrible gnome runs better on debian ;)
Lots of Love for Debian From Germany,
Anis
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TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite
Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
Learn more about our full service package and all benefits from buying at TUXEDO.
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| Archives |
| • Issue 1104 (2025-01-13): DAT Linux 2.0, Silly things to do with a minimal computer, Budgie prepares Wayland only releases, SteamOS coming to third-party devices, Murena upgrades its base |
| • Issue 1103 (2025-01-06): elementary OS 8.0, filtering ads with Pi-hole, Debian testing its installer, Pop!_OS faces delays, Ubuntu Studio upgrades not working, Absolute discontinued |
| • Issue 1102 (2024-12-23): Best distros of 2024, changing a process name, Fedora to expand Btrfs support and releases Asahi Remix 41, openSUSE patches out security sandbox and donations from Bottles while ending support for Leap 15.5 |
| • Issue 1101 (2024-12-16): GhostBSD 24.10.1, sending attachments from the command line, openSUSE shows off GPU assignment tool, UBports publishes security update, Murena launches its first tablet, Xfce 4.20 released |
| • Issue 1100 (2024-12-09): Oreon 9.3, differences in speed, IPFire's new appliance, Fedora Asahi Remix gets new video drivers, openSUSE Leap Micro updated, Redox OS running Redox OS |
| • Issue 1099 (2024-12-02): AnduinOS 1.0.1, measuring RAM usage, SUSE continues rebranding efforts, UBports prepares for next major version, Murena offering non-NFC phone |
| • Issue 1098 (2024-11-25): Linux Lite 7.2, backing up specific folders, Murena and Fairphone partner in fair trade deal, Arch installer gets new text interface, Ubuntu security tool patched |
| • Issue 1097 (2024-11-18): Chimera Linux vs Chimera OS, choosing between AlmaLinux and Debian, Fedora elevates KDE spin to an edition, Fedora previews new installer, KDE testing its own distro, Qubes-style isolation coming to FreeBSD |
| • Issue 1096 (2024-11-11): Bazzite 40, Playtron OS Alpha 1, Tucana Linux 3.1, detecting Screen sessions, Redox imports COSMIC software centre, FreeBSD booting on the PinePhone Pro, LXQt supports Wayland window managers |
| • Issue 1095 (2024-11-04): Fedora 41 Kinoite, transferring applications between computers, openSUSE Tumbleweed receives multiple upgrades, Ubuntu testing compiler optimizations, Mint partners with Framework |
| • Issue 1094 (2024-10-28): DebLight OS 1, backing up crontab, AlmaLinux introduces Litten branch, openSUSE unveils refreshed look, Ubuntu turns 20
| | • Issue 1093 (2024-10-21): Kubuntu 24.10, atomic vs immutable distributions, Debian upgrading Perl packages, UBports adding VoLTE support, Android to gain native GNU/Linux application support |
| • Issue 1092 (2024-10-14): FunOS 24.04.1, a home directory inside a file, work starts of openSUSE Leap 16.0, improvements in Haiku, KDE neon upgrades its base |
| • Issue 1091 (2024-10-07): Redox OS 0.9.0, Unified package management vs universal package formats, Redox begins RISC-V port, Mint polishes interface, Qubes certifies new laptop |
| • Issue 1090 (2024-09-30): Rhino Linux 2024.2, commercial distros with alternative desktops, Valve seeks to improve Wayland performance, HardenedBSD parterns with Protectli, Tails merges with Tor Project, Quantum Leap partners with the FreeBSD Foundation |
| • Issue 1089 (2024-09-23): Expirion 6.0, openKylin 2.0, managing configuration files, the future of Linux development, fixing bugs in Haiku, Slackware packages dracut |
| • Issue 1088 (2024-09-16): PorteuX 1.6, migrating from Windows 10 to which Linux distro, making NetBSD immutable, AlmaLinux offers hardware certification, Mint updates old APT tools |
| • Issue 1087 (2024-09-09): COSMIC desktop, running cron jobs at variable times, UBports highlights new apps, HardenedBSD offers work around for FreeBSD change, Debian considers how to cull old packages, systemd ported to musl |
| • Issue 1086 (2024-09-02): Vanilla OS 2, command line tips for simple tasks, FreeBSD receives investment from STF, openSUSE Tumbleweed update can break network connections, Debian refreshes media |
| • Issue 1085 (2024-08-26): Nobara 40, OpenMandriva 24.07 "ROME", distros which include source code, FreeBSD publishes quarterly report, Microsoft updates breaks Linux in dual-boot environments |
| • Issue 1084 (2024-08-19): Liya 2.0, dual boot with encryption, Haiku introduces performance improvements, Gentoo dropping IA-64, Redcore merges major upgrade |
| • Issue 1083 (2024-08-12): TrueNAS 24.04.2 "SCALE", Linux distros for smartphones, Redox OS introduces web server, PipeWire exposes battery drain on Linux, Canonical updates kernel version policy |
| • Issue 1082 (2024-08-05): Linux Mint 22, taking snapshots of UFS on FreeBSD, openSUSE updates Tumbleweed and Aeon, Debian creates Tiny QA Tasks, Manjaro testing immutable images |
| • Issue 1081 (2024-07-29): SysLinuxOS 12.4, OpenBSD gain hardware acceleration, Slackware changes kernel naming, Mint publishes upgrade instructions |
| • Issue 1080 (2024-07-22): Running GNU/Linux on Android with Andronix, protecting network services, Solus dropping AppArmor and Snap, openSUSE Aeon Desktop gaining full disk encryption, SUSE asks openSUSE to change its branding |
| • Issue 1079 (2024-07-15): Ubuntu Core 24, hiding files on Linux, Fedora dropping X11 packages on Workstation, Red Hat phasing out GRUB, new OpenSSH vulnerability, FreeBSD speeds up release cycle, UBports testing new first-run wizard |
| • Issue 1078 (2024-07-08): Changing init software, server machines running desktop environments, OpenSSH vulnerability patched, Peppermint launches new edition, HardenedBSD updates ports |
| • Issue 1077 (2024-07-01): The Unity and Lomiri interfaces, different distros for different tasks, Ubuntu plans to run Wayland on NVIDIA cards, openSUSE updates Leap Micro, Debian releases refreshed media, UBports gaining contact synchronisation, FreeDOS celebrates its 30th anniversary |
| • Issue 1076 (2024-06-24): openSUSE 15.6, what makes Linux unique, SUSE Liberty Linux to support CentOS Linux 7, SLE receives 19 years of support, openSUSE testing Leap Micro edition |
| • Issue 1075 (2024-06-17): Redox OS, X11 and Wayland on the BSDs, AlmaLinux releases Pi build, Canonical announces RISC-V laptop with Ubuntu, key changes in systemd |
| • Issue 1074 (2024-06-10): Endless OS 6.0.0, distros with init diversity, Mint to filter unverified Flatpaks, Debian adds systemd-boot options, Redox adopts COSMIC desktop, OpenSSH gains new security features |
| • Issue 1073 (2024-06-03): LXQt 2.0.0, an overview of Linux desktop environments, Canonical partners with Milk-V, openSUSE introduces new features in Aeon Desktop, Fedora mirrors see rise in traffic, Wayland adds OpenBSD support |
| • Issue 1072 (2024-05-27): Manjaro 24.0, comparing init software, OpenBSD ports Plasma 6, Arch community debates mirror requirements, ThinOS to upgrade its FreeBSD core |
| • Issue 1071 (2024-05-20): Archcraft 2024.04.06, common command line mistakes, ReactOS imports WINE improvements, Haiku makes adjusting themes easier, NetBSD takes a stand against code generated by chatbots |
| • Issue 1070 (2024-05-13): Damn Small Linux 2024, hiding kernel messages during boot, Red Hat offers AI edition, new web browser for UBports, Fedora Asahi Remix 40 released, Qubes extends support for version 4.1 |
| • Issue 1069 (2024-05-06): Ubuntu 24.04, installing packages in alternative locations, systemd creates sudo alternative, Mint encourages XApps collaboration, FreeBSD publishes quarterly update |
| • Issue 1068 (2024-04-29): Fedora 40, transforming one distro into another, Debian elects new Project Leader, Red Hat extends support cycle, Emmabuntus adds accessibility features, Canonical's new security features |
| • Issue 1067 (2024-04-22): LocalSend for transferring files, detecting supported CPU architecure levels, new visual design for APT, Fedora and openSUSE working on reproducible builds, LXQt released, AlmaLinux re-adds hardware support |
| • Issue 1066 (2024-04-15): Fun projects to do with the Raspberry Pi and PinePhone, installing new software on fixed-release distributions, improving GNOME Terminal performance, Mint testing new repository mirrors, Gentoo becomes a Software In the Public Interest project |
| • Issue 1065 (2024-04-08): Dr.Parted Live 24.03, answering questions about the xz exploit, Linux Mint to ship HWE kernel, AlmaLinux patches flaw ahead of upstream Red Hat, Calculate changes release model |
| • Issue 1064 (2024-04-01): NixOS 23.11, the status of Hurd, liblzma compromised upstream, FreeBSD Foundation focuses on improving wireless networking, Ubuntu Pro offers 12 years of support |
| • Issue 1063 (2024-03-25): Redcore Linux 2401, how slowly can a rolling release update, Debian starts new Project Leader election, Red Hat creating new NVIDIA driver, Snap store hit with more malware |
| • Issue 1062 (2024-03-18): KDE neon 20240304, changing file permissions, Canonical turns 20, Pop!_OS creates new software centre, openSUSE packages Plasma 6 |
| • Issue 1061 (2024-03-11): Using a PinePhone as a workstation, restarting background services on a schedule, NixBSD ports Nix to FreeBSD, Fedora packaging COSMIC, postmarketOS to adopt systemd, Linux Mint replacing HexChat |
| • Issue 1060 (2024-03-04): AV Linux MX-23.1, bootstrapping a network connection, key OpenBSD features, Qubes certifies new hardware, LXQt and Plasma migrate to Qt 6 |
| • Issue 1059 (2024-02-26): Warp Terminal, navigating manual pages, malware found in the Snap store, Red Hat considering CPU requirement update, UBports organizes ongoing work |
| • Issue 1058 (2024-02-19): Drauger OS 7.6, how much disk space to allocate, System76 prepares to launch COSMIC desktop, UBports changes its version scheme, TrueNAS to offer faster deduplication |
| • Issue 1057 (2024-02-12): Adelie Linux 1.0 Beta, rolling release vs fixed for a smoother experience, Debian working on 2038 bug, elementary OS to split applications from base system updates, Fedora announces Atomic Desktops |
| • Issue 1056 (2024-02-05): wattOS R13, the various write speeds of ISO writing tools, DSL returns, Mint faces Wayland challenges, HardenedBSD blocks foreign USB devices, Gentoo publishes new repository, Linux distros patch glibc flaw |
| • Issue 1055 (2024-01-29): CNIX OS 231204, distributions patching packages the most, Gentoo team presents ongoing work, UBports introduces connectivity and battery improvements, interview with Haiku developer |
| • Issue 1054 (2024-01-22): Solus 4.5, comparing dd and cp when writing ISO files, openSUSE plans new major Leap version, XeroLinux shutting down, HardenedBSD changes its build schedule |
| • Issue 1053 (2024-01-15): Linux AI voice assistants, some distributions running hotter than others, UBports talks about coming changes, Qubes certifies StarBook laptops, Asahi Linux improves energy savings |
| • Issue 1052 (2024-01-08): OpenMandriva Lx 5.0, keeping shell commands running when theterminal closes, Mint upgrades Edge kernel, Vanilla OS plans big changes, Canonical working to make Snap more cross-platform |
| • Full list of all issues |
| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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| Random Distribution | 
Featherweight Linux
Featherweight Linux was an installable live CD based on Feather Linux. It was a full featured distribution with a small foot print that was light and fast, even on older machines, but still carries a knockout punch. It comes with a minimal KDE desktop and several favourite applications.
Status: Discontinued
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| TUXEDO |
TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite
Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
Learn more about our full service package and all benefits from buying at TUXEDO.
|
| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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