 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 929, 9 August 2021 |
Welcome to this year's 31st issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
Maintaining an operating system takes a certain amount of work. A lot of that effort can be automated since that is what computers excel at doing. However, sometimes it pays to stop and consider what aspects of an operating system's upkeep should be automated and which parts should be left under manual control. This week, in our Questions and Answers column, we talk about defragmenting Linux filesystems and whether it is a good idea to automatically defragment Btrfs. Do you use any defragment options with Btrfs? Let us know in this week's Opinion Poll. First through we take a look at SME Server, a member of the CentOS family which is dedicated to providing a small, easy to use server platform. Learn more about SME Server in this week's Feature Story. Then we are pleased to discuss Linux Mint developing a new website, developers trying out a fork of systemd on OpenBSD, and DragonFly BSD changing the way filesystem snapshots are handled when the disk becomes full. Plus we are pleased to share the releases of the past week and list the torrents we are seeding. We wish you all a terrific week and happy reading!
Content:
- Review: SME Server 10.0
- News: Mint developing a new website, OpenBSD running systemd fork, DragonFly BSD changes how snapshots work with limited disk space
- Questions and answers: Defragmenting Linux filesystems
- Released last week
- Torrent corner: Alpine, Arch, Bluestar, Kaisen, KDE neon, Nitrux, PClinuxOS, Snal
- Upcoming releases: Tails 4.21, Debian 11
- Opinion poll: Do you defrag Btrfs?
- New additions: Navy Linux
- New distributions: Airyx
- Reader comments
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (13MB) and MP3 (10MB) formats.
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
SME Server 10.0
SME Server is a member of the Fedora and CentOS family. The project's latest release, SME Server 10.0, is based on CentOS 7 which will receive support through June 2024. The newest release fixes some issues with RAID setups and allows installation on machines running in UEFI mode. There are two editions of SME Server, both built for the x86_64 architecture. The regular install media is 1.5GB while the smaller, network install media is 635MB. I decided to try the larger, full install media.
The project's documentation lists various uses for SME Server including backups, web hosting, e-mail, and firewall. The documentation also mentions SME Server can be managed from a web-based interface which may be more convenient than using the distribution's command line.
Booting from the install media brings up a menu offering to install the distribution, install the server in text mode, or check the media's integrity and then launch the installer. I like having the integrity check built right into the media as an extra layer of protection. I took this latter option which confirmed the media was good and then launched the Anaconda system installer.
Installing
The Anaconda installer begins by asking us to select a language from a list. We are then shown a hub screen where we can access configuration modules in the order of our choosing. These modules give us the opportunity to select our time zone, change our preferred language, alter the keyboard layout, and pick the location of the install media. There are also modules for partitioning the hard drive and selecting which packages to install. The package selection screen only has one option: the minimal install set which will create a command line environment and web-based portal.
When I checked the partitioning screen I discovered SME Server sets up partitions automatically. This gives us an XFS boot partition and a LVM volume which is also formatted with XFS. A swap partition is created for us unless we change these default settings.
The installer took longer than usual to set up SME Server, but it did complete successfully and then offer to restart the computer. The first time we boot the new copy of the distribution a text-based wizard is run. We are asked if we want to restore a backup of the operating system. Then, assuming we do not perform a restore, we are asked to make up a new password for the root account. The wizard then walks us through making up a hostname and assigning an IP address to a network device. We are asked if this server will be a plain server or a gateway for other devices connecting to the Internet. In my case I was using a stand alone server and was asked to provide the IP address for my router. The wizard's last question is whether we wish to enable DHCP services for other devices on the network. When the wizard is done it turns us over to a text console where we can login as the root user.
Early impressions
One of the first things I noticed about my new SME Server was that it was very slow to respond and perform tasks. Logging into the local console took around five seconds. Running any program, whether it was cat, top, or a text editor took around ten seconds. It didn't take long to identify the problem. The Clam anti-virus software and ssl-aparms were running in the background and consuming all available CPU resources. Once these processes were killed, the system was still sluggish and RAM was full, causing the system to swap heavily. I found the clamd process was still running, even with clamav shut down, and it was consuming all the memory it could get.
I found that killing these runaway processes didn't work as systemd would simply restart them. I also found that running "systemctl disable" to prevent the processes from restarting would fail due to a timeout since running commands took too long. I had to use systemctl to stop the aggressive processes and then disable them to prevent them from starting up when the operating system was rebooted.
In short, my trial got off to a very slow and frustrating start. Once the problematic processes were stopped, I found SME Server runs a fairly standard command line environment. The usual GNU shell utilities are included along with systemd and version 3.10 of the Linux kernel. The MySQL database software and a web server are running in the background. There are packages from seven versions of PHP installed by default, including PHP modules from versions 8.0, 7.4, 7.3, 7.2, 7.1, 7.0, and 5.6.
The web portal
Visiting the new server's IP address in a web browser brings up a page which says this website is under construction. I wasn't sure which port or directory on the server I would need to visit to access the administrator portal. Reading through the documentation revealed the information I wanted in Chapter 6: we can access the portal by visiting https://server-ip/server-manager/
SME Server 10.0 -- The login page for the web portal
(full image size: 117kB, resolution: 1326x768 pixels)
Once we connect we're prompted for a username and password. The username "root" is blocked, but the user "admin" can sign in using the same password as the root account. The web interface has groups of settings arrayed down the left side of the browser window. Available settings and actions in a group are shown to the right.
The available settings modules are divided into five sections: users and groups; backup and restore as well as viewing log files; remote access and port forwarding; configuration of services and installing software; and support with the option of reporting bugs. One of the first things I noticed while browsing the web portal was the interface provided little to no feedback to indicate when something had been clicked or a setting saved. For example, when I went into the user accounts screen I made up a username for a regular user account and clicked the "Add" button to create the user. Nothing happened on the web page; no confirmation or error was shown. However, when I left that page and went back into the user account manager page my new account was listed as available.
SME Server 10.0 -- The user manager after my account has been unlocked and the password reset
(full image size: 192kB, resolution: 1326x768 pixels)
I ran into this same lack of visual feedback when performing other tasks, such as enabling the OpenSSH daemon. Nothing on the screen indicated the service had been enabled (or that a problem had occurred) though the service started to respond to connection attempts.
While the OpenSSH service was running and responding, my attempts to login as a regular user were blocked. Looking at the user manager in the web portal showed that my account was locked and, presumably needed its password to be set up. I tried to make up a password through the web portal, but even with a password of the required length (at least eight characters), with upper-case and lower-case letters included, and both a number and a symbol used I still received an error saying the password was not complex enough. Though not the reason why. I also couldn't see a clear way to unlock the account from the web portal. I switched to a local console, unlocked the new user account and set its password with the passwd command. I still couldn't sign into the account and the web portal continued to show the account as being locked.
Returning, for a moment, to the topic of background services, apart from dealing with printing, OpenSSH, and FTP services, there doesn't appear to be any way to manage background services through the web portal. I could not, for example, find a way to manage the anti-virus software, database, or mail service.
Managing software
The section of the web portal set aside for managing software has two key areas. One offers to install additional software on the operating system while the other provides access to updates from the distribution's repositories. Clicking the button to access additional software did nothing.
SME Server 10.0 -- Module for managing software
(full image size: 174kB, resolution: 1326x768 pixels)
Selecting the option to install available updates brings up a list of new packages present in the SME Server repositories. I accepted the listed updates and waited a few minutes while the packages were downloaded and installed. Once the process completed successfully a message is displayed which says the system needs to be reconfigured and restarted. We are warned that not performing these steps may cause problems with the system. I clicked on the presented reconfigure option which returned me to the install/update page and where I was shown another warning indicating the system needed to be reconfigured and restarted.
I was curious about how I could reconfigure the system and, for that matter, what it would entail. At first I thought perhaps the first-run wizard would run again if I restarted so I rebooted the computer. However, when the system came back on-line I was still shown the warning letting me know I needed to reconfigure the system and restart again to avoid problems.
SME Server 10.0 -- Warning displayed after rebooting
(full image size: 223kB, resolution: 1326x768 pixels)
With a little looking around I found a Reconfigure option in the web portal on the screen that controls shutting down and rebooting the system. I selected the Reconfigure item and, at first nothing appeared to happen. However, a short time later the system halted. When I powered on the server again the system failed to load, dropping me to a GRUB prompt. Whatever the Reconfigure step had done prevented the system from ever booting again.
Conclusions
In hindsight it's difficult for me to imagine how my trial with SME Server could have gone worse. One might point out that at least the system installer worked, but even then the installer is unusually slow and a bit awkward to navigate compared to other dedicated server and NAS solutions currently available.
Things got off to a poor start with anti-virus processes consuming all available CPU and memory resources and got worse when it became apparent that the systemctl command would timeout while trying to shutdown the runaway services while systemd would restart the processes I terminated by other means.
The user account manager rejected passwords I tried to apply to new accounts and incorrectly reported accounts were locked, even after I had unlocked them from the command line. The web interface does not show feedback or show confirmation when action buttons are clicked. Most services cannot be managed through the web portal and new software could not be added to the system without turning to the command line.
To make matters worse, updating the system and taking the Reconfigure option the system keeps insisting is necessary corrupts the system and prevents it from booting.
SME Server 10.0 -- Setting up network workgroup
(full image size: 191kB, resolution: 1326x768 pixels)
Looking through the web interface prior to the system becoming unusable, there do not appear to be many tools for managing services or setting up tasks. It looks like most significant options need to be managed from the command line and there are very few tasks we can perform through the web portal that are not easier and faster from the console.
One aspect of SME Server that puzzles me a bit is its short support cycle. SME Server 10.0 is new (it came out earlier this year), but it's based on CentOS 7 which is about seven years into its ten year support cycle. Which means SME Server 10.0 only receives three years of support. As a result we are stuck running seven year old software packages, but will only benefit from three years of updates. It seems we'd be better off running a Red Hat Enterprise Linux 8 clone with something like Webmin installed.
I encountered a lot of frustration from trying to use SME Server with virtually nothing to show from my efforts, but a lot of bugs. I think most other members of the Fedora/CentOS family would provide a smoother experience.
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Visitor supplied rating
SME Server has a visitor supplied average rating of: 8/10 from 7 review(s).
Have you used SME Server? You can leave your own review of the project on our ratings page.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith and Ladislav Bodnar) |
Mint developing a new website, OpenBSD running systemd fork, DragonFly BSD changes how snapshots work with limited disk space
The Linux Mint team is busy backporting new features to Linux Mint Debian Edition 4 as well as earlier releases of the Linux Mint 20.x series. The team is also designing a new website. "The new website will have a new look but it will also feature an adaptive layout, work well on any device, present information in a modern way and focus on what most visitors expect to find when they first browse it: What is Linux Mint? Why use Linux Mint? How to install it? With the stable release just behind us the timing is right and this project is given more focus. If you're talented in graphics design, UI/UX design, web design or even artwork in general get in touch with us." Contact information for the team along with additional information on recent changes to the distribution can be found in the project's July newsletter.
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The systemd software suite, which provides the init process and service manager for most Linux distributions, is not something most people would associate with OpenBSD, an operating system known for its minimalism. However, a project called InitWare has been working on porting code elements of systemd to other operating systems via a fork. In particular, InitWare aims to run on the major flavours of BSD, and some success has been gained getting it to run on OpenBSD. Screenshots of InitWare running on OpenBSD have been posted to reddit.
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The DragonFly BSD team is introducing a new approach to handling HAMMER2 filesystem snapshots when the storage device is running low on available space. In the past snapshots would fail if not enough room was available, but now snapshots take on a rolling approach, discarding old data when the drive runs out of space. Justin Sherrill explains: "It used to be that if you had a HAMMER2 volume and ran low on space, snapshotting would stop so that you didn't completely fill the disk. Now, thanks to Francis GUDIN, snapshots continue to roll forward and discard older ones to keep disk usage constant. It won't fix the low disk space issue, but snapshots will stay up to date."
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Defragmenting Linux filesystems
Getting-the-pieces-jumbled-together asks: I was wondering if you could do a quick recap of the status of defrag in different filesystems, for SSDs. More specifically, I cannot figure out if it makes any sense to mount Btrfs root and home subvolumes with "-o autodefrag".
DistroWatch answers: For people who may not be familiar with the concept of defragmenting a filesystem, first I'd like to provide a little background information. Typically filesystems try to save new files as one long string of data, keeping the pieces of the file all in one place. However, over time files can change in size or the drive can fill up, reducing the amount of free contiguous space. When this happens pieces of files may end up written to different parts of the disk. On a modern SSD storage devices this fragmentation usually doesn't have a big impact, but on spinning hard drives, where the disk needs to physically adjust to scan the area they read from, fragmented files can slow down the process of reading data from the hard drive.
Basically, a fragmented filesystem means the pieces of multiple files are scattered around the hard drive instead of being neatly organized into contiguous chunks. This disorganization can slow down file access.
Defragmenting a filesystem (also known as defragging) means gathering up the pieces of scattered files and reorganizing them. A defragmented filesystem has neatly ordered blocks of files and reading them no longer requires reading from lots of different parts of the disk.
Most modern Linux filesystems do a good job of organizing their data so that fragmentation rarely happens to the point where it becomes a problem. Typically, assuming 20% or more of your hard drive space is free, Linux filesystems will shift data around to make sure the disk organization does not become too fragmented. This is further helped by using SSDs, as the storage devices handle reads from random locations on the drive easier than classic spinning disks.
Now, let's talk specifically about Btrfs, an advanced filesystem with copy-on-write (CoW) data, snapshots, and an option which allows for automatic defragmentation (autodefrag). The Btrfs section of the Linux kernel wiki mentions fragmentation as a possible problem, particularly when using databases and virtual machines:
Files with a lot of random writes can become heavily fragmented (10,000+ extents) causing thrashing on HDDs and excessive multi-second spikes of CPU load on systems with an SSD or large amount a RAM. On servers and workstations this affects databases and virtual machine images.
The wiki goes on to mention fragmentation may happen when running applications which heavily make use of databases, such as web browsers and e-mail clients. The result can be heavier CPU usage and poorer performance. The recommended solution, according to the wiki, is to periodically run the defragmentation command manually or enable the autodefrag option: "Workarounds include manually defragmenting your home directory using 'btrfs fi defragment'. Auto-defragment (mount option autodefrag) should solve this problem in 3.0."
At this point it sounds as though enabling autodefrag on your Btrfs volumes makes sense. If there is no fragmentation then there is no harm done, but if your filesystem is processing a lot of random writes the autodefrag flag should fix the problem. Before you rush ahead to turn on the automatic defragmentation option, consider Oracle's Btrfs documentation which offers this advice:
You can set up automatic defragmentation by specifying the autodefrag option when you mount the file system. However, automatic defragmentation is not recommended for large databases or for images of virtual machines.
Defragmenting a file or a subvolume that has a copy-on-write copy results breaks [sic] the link between the file and its copy. For example, if you defragment a subvolume that has a snapshot, the disk usage by the subvolume and its snapshot will increase because the snapshot is no longer a copy-on-write image of the subvolume.
In other words, there is a price to pay for less fragmentation and that is larger amounts of disk space being consumed. The Btrfs manual page echoes this concern: "This may cause considerable increase of space usage depending on the broken up reflinks"
My suggestion would be to leave autodefrag turned off by default. Chances are that, in most situations, you won't need it. However, if you do find your filesystem access slowing down you can perform a one-time defrag from the command line by running "btrfs filesystem defragment". The btrfs-filesysetm manual page has a section dedicated to defragmenting Btrfs and its subvolumes. I recommend looking at the various options, particularly those related to recursively defragmenting a directory.
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Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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| Released Last Week |
Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 2,541
- Total data uploaded: 39.1TB
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) |
Do you defrag Btrfs?
In this week's Questions and Answers column we talked about defragmenting Linux filesystems, with a particular focus on Btrfs. We would like to hear whether you defrag your Btrfs volume. Did you notice any side-effects from performing the defrag action? Let us know about your experiences in the comments.
You can see the results of our previous poll on reviving coverage of dormant distributions in last week's edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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Do you defrag your Btrfs volume?
| Yes - using autodefrag: | 43 (3%) |
| Yes - manually: | 28 (2%) |
| No: | 353 (23%) |
| I do not use Btrfs: | 1103 (72%) |
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| Website News |
New distributions added to database
Navy Linux
Navy Linux is an open source community project founded by UnixLab (Unix/Linux developers community). The project aims to provide a free-of-cost clone of Red Hat Enterprise Linux with minimal install media.
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New distributions added to waiting list
- Airyx. Airyx is an open source desktop operating system that aims to provide a similar experience and compatibility with macOS on x86-64 systems. It builds on the foundation of FreeBSD, existing open source packages in the same space, and new code to fill the gaps.
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DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 16 August 2021. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Article Search page. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
- Bruce Patterson (podcast)
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • SSD and Defrag (by Mike Simms on 2021-08-09 00:48:05 GMT from United Kingdom)
SSD and nvme do not need defrag because of the way their controllers access the array of memory chips. defrag will just wear those chips out far sooner than is necessary. The chips have a finite number of writes before they will fail. That is referred to as mean writes to failure in the specifications,
in the last few years the manufacturers have managed to make chips more robust and increase this value (and the length of warranties to 5 years).
All they really require is TRIM. Most of the Ubuntu flavours and derivatives have a systemd service enabled by default when an SSD is detected during install. That service is a timer to run fstrim once a week.
you can check whether it's working or not in terminal with the following code:
systemctl status fstrim
example output from that command:
● fstrim.service - Discard unused blocks on filesystems from /etc/fstab
Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/fstrim.service; static; vendor preset: enabled)
Active: inactive (dead) since Mon 2021-08-09 01:15:48 BST; 31min ago
TriggeredBy: ● fstrim.timer
Docs: man:fstrim(8)
Process: 710 ExecStart=/sbin/fstrim --fstab --verbose --quiet (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)
Main PID: 710 (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)
Aug 09 01:15:19 Aures systemd[1]: Starting Discard unused blocks on filesystems from /etc/fstab...
Aug 09 01:15:48 Aures fstrim[710]: /boot/efi: 505.8 MiB (530321408 bytes) trimmed on /dev/sda1
Aug 09 01:15:48 Aures fstrim[710]: /: 382.1 GiB (410314940416 bytes) trimmed on /dev/sda2
Aug 09 01:15:48 Aures systemd[1]: fstrim.service: Succeeded.
Aug 09 01:15:48 Aures systemd[1]: Finished Discard unused blocks on filesystems from /etc/fstab.
2 • BigOS => OS clone (by fatherclone on 2021-08-09 03:14:18 GMT from Canada)
WinOS => ReactOS
BeOS => Haiku OS
MacOS => Airyx OS
It's good to see such efforts - although a little masochistic - but, unfortunately, it will be a long time before these open source clones mature to be allround desktop ecosystems, like their proprietary forefathers.
3 • SSD, defrag & BTRFS (by Greg Zeng on 2021-08-09 06:19:49 GMT from Australia)
Normally SSD seem to not need defragmenting. However sometimes making any partition smaller than currently set is not possible. The operating system has settings that make some files not movable; System, Read-Only, etc. To change these partition sizes, turn off the file attributes, or delete these difficult files. Then defrag, and the partition sizes can then be made smaller.
BTRFS has the other "features" in many independent bench tests of being slower than other partition formats. Perhaps using too many attributes unique to BTRFS might slow it further, and add possible fragility & stability. Only a few operating system designers currently use BTRFS by default. The integration into the Linux kernel & further updates are slowly progressing. In my personal testing, it seems hard to integrate into the many versions of "grub customizer", with multiple operating systems.
4 • Defrag Btrfs (by James on 2021-08-09 10:14:32 GMT from United States)
I have one laptop with Parrot OS that now uses Btrfs as the default file system I have never had the need to defrag the hard drive.
5 • InitWare (by dragonmouth on 2021-08-09 12:13:56 GMT from United States)
And so the cancer (systemd) is about to spread to the BSDs.
6 • defrag and init (by cor on 2021-08-09 13:21:39 GMT from United States)
This is something I have not had to concern myself with since switching to Linux 20 years ago.
As for the Systemd whiners, please get over it. What is the reason for this illogical hatred? It is sad a small minority makes so many waves. Don't use it if you don't like Systemd. It's literally that simple.
7 • systemd (by J. Klotz on 2021-08-09 13:52:36 GMT from United States)
@5 Yes, it's sad. The BSDs were part of my exit strategy in case the shim no longer works or my favorite distro goes to systemd.
@6 As for the Systemd fanbois, please get over it. What is the reason for this illogical love? It is sad a controlling (LP and RedHat) thinks they need more control. Don't use it if you don't like Systemd. It's literally that simple. FTFY
Except that installers don't have an option to purge and proceed without systemd or any of it's crap. Perhaps you weren't using it when it's addition of systemd-resolve proceeded to change your DNS settings without asking and select Google for it's resolvers without asking the user. Then the documentation for it did not allow proper shutdown of systemd-resolve. Wait until they take over something harder to fix like your home directory.
8 • SME Server review (by Ankleface Wroughlandmire on 2021-08-09 14:03:43 GMT from Ecuador)
Yikes. Thanks Jesse for the review. I like the idea behind that sort of turnkey server project, but it sounds like an extremely poor implementation. I strongly recommend OpenMediaVault, which runs on top of Debian Stable. It can either be installed from a standalone image, or its repo can be simply added on top of a vanilla Debian install, which allows for running it on all sorts of eclectic non-x86 hardware. I run it with great success to keep alive an old NAS with an armel processor that LaCiE stopped supporting eons ago.
9 • Fragging drives (by Tad Strange on 2021-08-09 15:35:27 GMT from Canada)
I thought that defragging an SSD was just a means towards quickening their death.
I've never bothered, personally. The SSD on my principal computer has just started developing a few bad blocks, though I don't know the age of it. I cloned it to a new drive and will just use it for testing on the pi, or something transient.
I'm in the 3rd, DGAF, group regarding systemd.
I want my OS to work for me, rather than the other way around. If it's functional in the way that I expect, I don't care what runs it. I'll leave the holy war to others.
10 • SME Server (by Mark B on 2021-08-09 15:39:28 GMT from United Kingdom)
Jesse's honest review of SME Server came as a bit of a shock to me. I have used older versions in the past and have downloaded v10 to try out at some point. It seems like I needn't bother if it's going to be that slow. Shame!
11 • To SystemD or not to SystemD??? (by tom joad on 2021-08-09 16:09:31 GMT from Seychelles)
First, I don't use btrfs so i don't defrag much of anything. I use linux Mint Cinnamon.
However, just the other day I was standing in a grocery store line, idling, when I thought about SystemD. I said to myself, I said self there hasn't been a nice SystemD blow up in a while. And whaddya think?
Boy and girls, we have the makings of another one.
So I went over to the Search feature on this page to search for distros withOUT SystemD. Shazam! I found 28 in the first 100 distros! That is nearly a third of them. Leading the pack is MX linux at number one withOUT SystemD and I don't think it ever had SystemD. High on the list is PCLinuxOS, Puppy and FreeBSD, all in the first 20 listed distros. I didn't add Anti-X because it pretty much MXLinux. That said Anti-X is SystemD free too. All of them are steady 'eddie distros' too.
So........
If you want to SystemD, fine. If you don't, fine. You have plenty of good options.
Just please let the argument die.
P.S. If one goes looking for boogie-men one will find a lot of them. Just an observation.
12 • BSD/Linux and SystemD (by Otis on 2021-08-09 16:10:05 GMT from United States)
I, like many, have perused the documentation about the wonders of systemd init vs others. But I'd still like to at some point see an anecdotal account of experiences with/without systemd that points to systemd's superiority (for users, not devs).
13 • Not using systemd (by Bobbie Sellers on 2021-08-09 16:54:40 GMT from United States)
I believe that 4MLinux also is Not using systemd but Devuan might be the better choice
if you have been using Debian.
Well I use PCLinuxOS which is one of the best systems avoiding the use of systemd.
It is a rolling release which means that you should do updates (via synaptic) more
often, and as soon as I get off this I have to reboot so that I can try 5.13.9.
Several other distributions avoid the use of systemd and we could always if desperate
enough recompile source code without mention of systemd, for good reasons of
security. Then of course install scripts would have to be modified.
PCLinusOS for me to avoid all that.
bliss - 'Nearly any fool can use a Linux computer. Many do.' After all here I am...
14 • MX Linux - SystemD (by Nodrog on 2021-08-09 17:30:04 GMT from United Kingdom)
I've always been a bit confused by the statement MX-Linux is free from Systemd. When I look at the list of packages on Distrowatch it says Systemd is and always has been installed.
15 • SystemD Free (by Hank on 2021-08-09 17:57:26 GMT from Germany)
MX linux at number one withOUT SystemD and I don't think it ever had SystemD:
Wrong Mx has System D or SysV Init
AntiX is the system D part of the family. Which is why I use and support it.
System D on BSD are the devs nuts ???
16 • SME Server (by Paul on 2021-08-09 18:02:51 GMT from United Kingdom)
I read the review with a great deal of surprise. I've used and supported a number of small businesses using it as an internet gateway and in some cases, file server. Its reliability has been outstanding, and its performance excellent.
I'm currently looking at migrating 7 SME 9 servers to the new version. As a result, I've installed a number of test systems, none with the problems described in the review. First start after install does seem very slow, but subsequent restarts are fine. The web interface (both text mode from an SSH login) and from a graphical web browser has always shown me confirmation or failure messages. I've also not seen repeated demands for reconfiguration.
One of SME's great strengths is the number of "contribs" that are available to expand its services and capabilities. Along with very extensive documentation, it makes a very good server which is normally simple to install and maintain.
I've run SME on all sorts of different hardware, a good deal of which is obsolete. I would love to know what could have caused such a poor experience with what I continue to regard as an excellent software product.
17 • Initware (by Jyrki on 2021-08-09 18:22:39 GMT from Czechia)
I had to quickly check if it's 1st April. And it's not. Open source is often abused for splitting ways and waste resources. And this project is the biggest waste ever seen
18 • Init war or how to waste time instead of working on end user apps. (by Frederic Bezies on 2021-08-09 19:23:09 GMT from France)
I've been using systemd since 2012 on my archlinux installations. I've used upstart (back in my Ubuntu days) and sysVinit back in my Mandrake Linux days.
I will say something simple: it is USELESS to continue this init war. It lead Linux world NOWHERE.
Where are the killer apps for Linux? Besides LibreOffice, there is none. GIMP is light years behind Photoshop for ease of use.
I've been running linux only on my PCs since Ubuntu 6.06... 15 years, and I saw lot of distributions dying. I saw "wars" between Unity and Gnome users and for something like a decade this endless and wasting wars on init.
We have to be grown up. And let's work on the end user application level.
I don't care which init is used. I just want it to work, to manage my services, to help me getting a more friendly Linux distributions.
I'm just a 15 years long linux-only users on my home computers and I'm fed up with this init war.
19 • Unite for what? (by uselessmore999 on 2021-08-09 20:36:34 GMT from Germany)
Calls to stop those "useless" "wars" about some stuff that's under the hood and instead unite to focus on the development of "killer" end-user "apps" (usually meaning drop-in replacements for expensive, well-established Windows or Mac "productivity" software) in order to take Linux further always strike me as rather funny.
It's a bit like saying: I'm frustrated with the debate because it basically works for me and, apart from that, I don't give a shit. Just gimme (free) "killer apps" so I don't have to go back to using Windows or macOS.
That's not the way to ever have sane IT.
You can't just unite people over fundamental disagreements on how to do basic stuff. Those disagreements often have very valid reasons and thus should not and simply cannot be shoved aside on a whim. That's also because they're not merely technical, but to a considerable extent cultural, or questions of attitude.
The only valid ground on which to call the "init" "war" futile is that Linux, like apparently most software, is way beyond sanity in the first place. BSD might provide a good, or even just bearable, interim solution to that problem, as far as operating systems go, and as long as it's not FreeBSD.
Suit yourself.
20 • @19 How many years will be lost? (by Frederic Bezies on 2021-08-09 20:53:18 GMT from France)
I saw your comment, and I want to ask you: how many more years are we going to lose because of war on init systems?
"Calls to stop those "useless" "wars" about some stuff that's under the hood and instead unite to focus on the development of "killer" end-user "apps" (usually meaning drop-in replacements for expensive, well-established Windows or Mac "productivity" software) in order to take Linux further always strike me as rather funny."
Is there any professional quality end user software on Linux besides LibreOffice?
"It's a bit like saying: I'm frustrated with the debate because it basically works for me and, apart from that, I don't give a shit. Just gimme (free) "killer apps" so I don't have to go back to using Windows or macOS."
I stopped using MS-Windows as my daily OS back in 2006. I wrote back in 2006 on my french speaking blog an article on my thoughts after 3 weeks using ubuntu 6.06 : https://blog.fredericbezies-ep.fr/2006/06/18/un-peu-plus-de-3-semaines-sous-la-ubuntu-dapper-drake-bilan/
Sorry, it is in french. But I think you can find a translation tool that works.
I saw a lot of progress be done: user friendly installers, more and more polished versions of main desktop environment. I remember using Gnome 2.something on Ubuntu 6.06 LTS. I remember KDE 3.5 and its plastik theme. Things were going the right way.
"That's not the way to ever have sane IT."
Ah...
"The only valid ground on which to call the "init" "war" futile is that Linux, like apparently most software, is way beyond sanity in the first place. BSD might provide a good, or even just bearable, interim solution to that problem, as far as operating systems go, and as long as it's not FreeBSD. "
What is sanity? You make me think of somebody searching for some kind of software purity...
BSD the way to go? And going back to 2010 for hardware support? The longer you will search for software purity, the longer you'll see your computer as a gadget. Not as a working tool.
I was like you until 2017... Then I saw that Linux kernel was ready from prime time, desktop environment too. Only missing part are professional quality end-user software.
Sorry to be mainly a desktop oriented linux, and archlinux user.
So, a bottom hole for some purists linux users :)
Have a good day.
21 • systemD (by dragonmouth on 2021-08-09 21:27:18 GMT from United States)
@5: systemD is like a command economy. ALL decisions are made by one central entity.
@18:
"it is USELESS to continue this init war."
No, it isn't. It is interesting that when it comes to pointless duplicate apps and distros, the more the better according to most Linux users because Linux is about choice. Yet, when it comes to systemD, the same pro-choicers see it as the wave of the future and an application (because it is way more than init by now) to be used by as many distros as possible. The heck with choice. All other inits must die.
"We have to be grown up."
I agree. However, part of being grown up is giving up the "my way or the highway" attitude and allowing everyone their freedom of choice though you disagree with that choice.
"let's work on the end user application level"
Tell that to all those churning out endless "me too" copies of apps and distros instead of helping on the already existing projects. (Again we run into the Linux "choice" mantra)
BTW - the first distro I installed was Red Hat and it came on six 3.5" diskettes.
22 • Init and others (by Nathan on 2021-08-09 21:29:07 GMT from United States)
Init wars are lovely, and I love reading them almost as much as editor wars! So here's my 2 cents. Some of us have PTSD from losing control over something we thought we were in charge of. For me it's planned obsolescence in cellphones: a perfectly good phone is no longer supported and just dies a strange death of not being able to install anything from the app store. Now I see myself corralled into using SystemD just like I was corralled into choosing between iOS and Android, and the parallel is too striking for my fragile brain. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but kind of like a cat who sees the closet door closing and scoots in, I see the options in alternative init systems drying up and I think, "gotta get in that closet!"
I'm probably way off base. The cat analogy hits close to home... But all the same, I'm loving the openrc closet, and I also love getting upset about software that isn't init-agnostic when it should be.
23 • init (by dave on 2021-08-10 04:11:12 GMT from United States)
@7 same.. we'll end up using TempleOS to avoid all the glowies
systemd pushers basically speak like the borg from star trek-- instead of "resistance is futile" it's "debate is useless". When they're not speaking like the borg, they talk like someone from the proverbial marketing department "b-but muh killer appz!" Please take your bloat addiction and mission creep back to wandows.
24 • init (by M.Z. on 2021-08-10 04:56:01 GMT from United States)
There remains plenty of choices based on init alone if that's your thing. There really is no rational reason to complain when you have plenty of decent options, unless of course you just like complaining. There are always complaints of a shadowy cabal taking freedom; however, the option to choose whatever distro with whatever init you want remains & the real cabals of the world have a lot bigger fish to fry than how you boot your OS. Also there is the option to fork any distro you want if you can get enough technically minded people & other resources behind the effort.
I ran PCLinuxOS for about five years straight, mostly before the holy init war crap began. It was a very solid OS for the most part. I think it's cousin Mageia is in the same ballpark, regardless of init. I'm not really sure about Devuan, but it's cousin Mint is excellent. Chose what you will & support you preferred project how you see fit & chances are your preference or something like it will be around for a long time to come.
25 • SystemD on OpenBSD (by DaveT on 2021-08-10 06:42:31 GMT from United Kingdom)
That report about InitWare working on porting systemd to OpenBSD made me laugh out loud. They will never get that past Theo de Raadt!
My laptop and servers run OpenBSD. I have a Devuan linux box for applications such as csound and what have you that never got ported to the BSDs.
26 • Systems without systemd (by Sa on 2021-08-10 07:14:18 GMT from France)
There is still Android, AOSP and later Fuchsia.
27 • @21 @22 @23 choice dictatorship and others subjects... (by Frederic Bezies on 2021-08-10 09:18:58 GMT from France)
Ah, choice dictatorship...
Linux is about choice. There is about 10 init system or so. How many are rock solid? We have 10 desktop environment or so. How many are complete and really user friendly?
Too many choices are killing choices. I'm not the first one telling this. Just look at this TED conference: https://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_the_paradox_of_choice
"Psychologist Barry Schwartz takes aim at a central tenet of western societies: freedom of choice. In Schwartz's estimation, choice has made us not freer but more paralyzed, not happier but more dissatisfied."
Once again, I DON'T CARE about which init system my OS is using. It works, I keep it. It doesn't work? I remove it.
There is about 280 alive distributions listed here. How many are used only by their developers? How many are simple copycat of each others?
Well, I have nothing more to add. I know this discussion will run into an endless circle. I'm no more a geeky linux user. My computer is my working tool, not an experiment one.
Have a good day.
28 • RunOpenSysD (by Cheker on 2021-08-10 13:07:55 GMT from Portugal)
The open nature of UNIX-likes prevents a single init, or for that matter, any other system component, to monopolize its entire space. The very same fragmentation that people complain about, an inevitable consequence of freedom of choice, guarantees that long as there is one developer that doesn't like systemd (and this will always be the case), there will always be a non-systemd UNIX. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Having said this, that headline did make me question if I hadn't slipped into a parallel universe. Systemd and OpenBSD in the same sentence is not something I was expecting in the most feverish of dreams. Note that InitWare is not pure systemd though - Theo will never entertain it otherwise.
29 • Politics Religion Systemd (by John Brown on 2021-08-10 14:05:47 GMT from United States)
All my friends are Republicans , Christians, SystemDoers.
I tried all the non systemd distros in the past. They worked. Now I run distros with systemd, and guess what they work.
I don't see any difference. Surely no bloat. If I can get a fully installed debian down to 3.6GB. Where's the bloat. If your referring to the million+ lines of code. Its just the coding, NOT the compiled program.
How many lines of code is linux: 27.8 million lines!!! No one is complaining about its bloat.
30 • fire in the whole (by fonz on 2021-08-10 14:35:16 GMT from Indonesia)
nice set of reviews nowadays showing light on lesser used distros. id still prefer a mainstream distro and install server stuff. i find it as an easier starting ground overall. also tried installing ubuntu server and adding lxde for a slightly cleaner start. id still prefer the former.
like swap, i prefer setting defrag as a last resort. a 'byte saved is a byte earned' mentality and tmpfsing nearly everything saves me a bunch of time (IMHO). i usually only check the defrag status on both lin and win, both suggest none required. my externals are a different story tho, but id still prefer not to ;P
not too picky on init (swaying against systemd tho), most people would still prefer choosing what we want. take mx for example, you can use sysv (default) or switch to sysd. i hope more distros can let us 'choose your destiny' and stuff. IIRC there are other distros that offer a bunch of choices, but wouldnt it be awesome (and easier) if they were ALL preinstalled, can choose to install more, and switch between them freely like mx..?
31 • SystemD query re-worded (by Otis on 2021-08-10 15:54:45 GMT from United States)
In @12 I may not have made my question clear. I'll pose it differently:
What is good/superior for users, FOR USERS, about systemD over other init systems? We see a lot about how it's easier, more useful for developers to make necessary changes to their products. But the conversation in here is (mostly) users complaining about or praising systemD.
Why do USERS need systemD as the init system? It's taking over.. so devs are doing that at the behest of users? Or with disregard for users?
32 • April's Fool Day (by Oko on 2021-08-10 17:26:15 GMT from United States)
It looks like the latest DistroWatch weekly was seriously affected by clock drifting. I didn't expect April's fool day joke in the form InitWare aka. systemd for OpenBSD in August. A quick look reveals license incompatibility
"InitWare is licensed under the GNU Library GPL, version 2.1 or later, except for the following files:"
which means that has zero provability to become the part of OpenBSD proper. There is also some blurb about D-Bus nonsense which no OpenBSD user uses. For a serious talk on init system for OpenBSD by no other than its core developer
https://www.bsdfrog.org/pub/events/openbsd-rcd-EuroBSDcon2016.pdf
and mandatory video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjHDvO_haQY
I am not sure if the purpose of the news was to generate Internet traffic (which could mean more advertisement revenue for DWW) but it certainly does contribute to diminishing quality of articles on this web site.
33 • To D or not to D... (by Friar Tux on 2021-08-10 20:48:46 GMT from Canada)
I guess, when it comes to systemd, I'm in that 3rd group, too. The "I don't really care" group. My OS uses systemd and I've not had any issues in the five years I've used it. I HAVE had issues with some of the other init systems that I've tested.
I don't really care what init system my OS uses so long as it stays out of the way and let's me get my work done. Plus, if it makes the devs' job easier, all the better. Maybe that's why it was adopted so quickly by so many. (Though you are perfectly in you right to beef and complain about it if you wish. Just don't be upset if the rest of us ignore you. That is OUR right.)
As for systemd being ported over to BSD, well, it appears, if that is really the case, that it may make things easier for the BSD devs. Again, why was/is it adopted so quickly if it isn't that good. (The arguement that it was "forced" on us is incorrect as this is Linux and we can cobble together any franken-distro we wish, even without systemd, if we wish.)
34 • This weeks Opinion Poll... (by Tech in San Diego on 2021-08-10 21:08:05 GMT from United States)
Diverting a bit from the init controversy. I have used "spinners" for over 35 years, that is until I purchased a new laptop earlier this year that came with a 256GB SSD and a 1TB HDD @7200RPM. Can someone point me to where I can find performance and MTFB numbers? In my particular environment I don't notice the benefits of an SSD vs an HDD. The only real improvement that I can quantify is that the system appears to boot slightly faster with an SSD vs an HDD. I use a RAID array when "crunching the numbers". The other benefit that improves my environment is the throughput when I encode video/audio content or when I'm programming. Adding a faster processor and faster memory helps resolve this. The noticeable difference, and one that I can absolutely quantify, is in the area of performance, reliability and price. I'm already seeing a "premature SSD failure is imminent" notice upon boot. If and when it dies, I'm going to replace it with a tried and true 1TB HDD @10K RPM.
And now a word from our sponsor. If last weeks topic wasn't controversial enough, the init system raised it's ugly head... again. In the words of Rodney King "Why cant we all learn to get along?".
All the Best!
Tech in San Diego
PS: I use openSUSE Tumbleweed with the BTRFS filesystem and a Rasp Pi for my NAS. I have never defragged my file systems and differ to BTRFS and openSUSE to do it's own "cleanup" upon boot.
35 • OpenBSD and systemd (by Keith S on 2021-08-11 03:22:57 GMT from United States)
I've been using OpenBSD as my daily driver for over 10 years. I'd put the odds of Theo allowing systemd to replace the current init system at zero.
I wish the systemd people would do something useful with their time, like porting Android SDK Platform Tools to OpenBSD. But no, political agitprop is more their style.
36 • SME10 Review (by Terry Fage on 2021-08-11 05:33:19 GMT from Australia)
Can you please provide the hardware specs you used when doing your review..it looks to have been a VM, what flavour and what were the VM specs..
Your comments re speed is very dependent on amount of RAM, particulary for ClamAV..
Terry Fage
37 • SME Server review (by Dan on 2021-08-11 05:34:28 GMT from Romania)
I'm curios, are there (free) alternatives to SME Server that offer the same features out of the box for small businesses? Features like admin interface for user/groups management, samba file sharing and domain controller, full email services including IMAP, SMTP, spam/antivirus filtering and optionally gateway/firewall/vpn services. The ones I know of are ClearOS, Nethserver, Univention, Zentyal. Could you do a full lineup?
38 • defragging btrfs (by Simon Plaistowe on 2021-08-11 11:07:48 GMT from New Zealand)
My only drive using btrfs is the storage drive in my UrBackup server, where my household's data backups are kept. No need yet for any defragmentation. In fact I think it'd bugger up the efficient deduplication, upon which the backup system relies heavily. As for workstations, they're all ext4 ...and I've never ever had to defrag any of 'em! On the odd occasion when I remember to run it, e4defrag invariably tells me it's not needed. Score is always 0 or 1 (and 56 is the recommended threshold above which you ought to defrag).
39 • Elementary OS 6 Inter font hint for KDE users (by Mike Simms on 2021-08-11 14:08:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
I'll look forward to your review of this version of Elementary even though I'm not a massive fan of Mac OS clones. In the meantime, any KDE users who wish to try out the new version of the Inter font linked to in the release announcement on their blog will need to use the hinted TTF variant.
I'm currently using Inter hinted font with Kubuntu 20.04 and it does vastly improve the look and legibility over the standard Noto Sans
40 • Killer app? (by Tad Strange on 2021-08-11 18:42:19 GMT from Canada)
*cough* That would be the web browser. More and more vendors are moving their software to cloud-based subscription models every year.
The browser is the killer app that frees folk from the Wintel and PC world.
I think Google even wrapped a laptop around a web browser....
LibreOffice represents the quaint old way of working - there's nothing "killer" about it, other than it being as free as beer isn't.
Living offline is rapidly becoming niche.
41 • On & Off Line (by Friar Tux on 2021-08-11 23:50:18 GMT from Canada)
@40 (Tad Strange) "Living offline is rapidly becoming niche." No, I don't think so. There are way too many of us that want OUR stuff to stay on OUR devices. I have been burnt twice with "cloud tech" so I, for one, have sworn it off. And I know of plenty of others in the same boat. Maybe, in 50 years or so, but not any time soon. Cloud tech is still way too young and way too sketchy to be stable and secure. (Plus the fact that your stuff is being curated by someone else at a location you have no control over... no thanks.)
That goes for having a full fledged OS on my device, also. No "browser OS" for me. To me, the cons far out way the pros.
42 • I'm a hypocryt - w/ systemd (by crayola-eater on 2021-08-12 00:49:22 GMT from United States)
Someone earlier asked for feedback from a usr on systemd. Well I have to admit that I have what I know is an irrational distrust of it, so I don't use it (running antiX with runit init). But I so use religiously the dreaded precursor to systemd - pulseaudio. Fortunately I can run it without actually running systemd, as it handles my audio needs much better (read easier) than I can get with alsa. When I sample a distro running systemd, I have never encountered any issue that I can track back to it. But I still don't want it as my daily driver - yep, irrational distrust. And I'll live with that.
43 • Cloud based OS (by Mike Simms on 2021-08-12 06:20:07 GMT from United Kingdom)
I'm with Friar Tux on this one. There isn't the infrastructure here to allow reliance on the cloud even if I wanted to go down that route anyway.
But more importantly cloud data centres are vulnerable to attack, fire, flooding, the host business folding. Only recently cloud servers I do access through an online game (they host the game servers) went down due to a fire at the cloud data farm and were offline for 2 weeks while the data centre had the climate control for the building they were in checked for the same fault that caused a fire in the adjacent building also containing cloud servers.
What this highlighted is that despite the data host stating they had redundancy in case of such an occurrence, there was none. The people responsible for those servers in the game have since cancelled their contract and gone elsewhere.
44 • @40 Tad Strange: (by dragonmouth on 2021-08-12 12:13:17 GMT from United States)
Whenever you store your data on third-party servers (cloud) you give up control of that data. In addition to the dangers already mentioned by others, your data is subject to the whims of corporate policy. Your data can be held hostage to corporate demands. Once you put your data out in the cloud, it will be there forever and you can never retrieve it. The cloud provider will always have a copy of your data. So much for data security.
45 • "Do You Defrag Your Btrfs Volume?"...Why would one explicitly do that? (by R. Cain on 2021-08-12 14:13:16 GMT from United States)
Btrfs contains, among the many of its convenient features, 'autodefrag' (it also happens to be much more kind and gentle with/to SSDs than other file systems. But that's going "....off topic...").
46 • systemd and BSDs (by Basilio on 2021-08-12 15:09:44 GMT from Italy)
BSDs have no need for systemd. In the Linux world systemd, pulseaudio, D-Bus and GNOME were introduced to create a single standard that would hinder the excessive fragmentation among the different Linux distributions. In the BSD field, distributions do not exist and the only reason to introduce "something like systemd" may be the willingness to fully support the GNOME desktop environment. But looking at the good level reached by other desktop environments (first of all KDE Plasma) ... do BSDs really need GNOME?
47 • Don't worry, I'm a Doctor (by Trihexagonal on 2021-08-12 16:58:21 GMT from United States)
@5 "And so the cancer (systemd) is about to spread to the BSDs."
Just because a program, or library, makes it into the FreeBSD ports tree does not mean it is going to be included in the Base System installation.
From the FreeBSD About Ports page for libinotify:
"This library provides inotify-compatible interface for applications,
that need to monitor changes happening in a filesystem. It can be useful
when porting Linux applications, which often use inotify interface."
From the freebsd.org site:
"With over 33,000 ported libraries and applications, FreeBSD supports applications for desktop, server, appliance, and embedded environments."
They are optional programs you choose to install or dependencies of other programs you choose to install, but 33,000 of the are not included in the Base System installation.
Xorg isn't included in the Bases System because people who use it as a server don't need it. A DE or WM aren't included because nobody who uses FreeBSD wants one included and have someone else make that choice for them.
We like it that way and no matter how many people complain about "Why can't FreeBSD be more like that other OS" it's going to stay that way. I try to make it easier for people to learn how, but I'm only a Doctor. Not a miracle worker.
"ive always wondered how people can say 'unused RAM is wasted RAM.' wonder if theyve tried doing something like gaming, browsing ETC."
I can't cure ignorance, only provide you with assistance to overcome it. Now stand up and walk.
48 • @47: (by dragonmouth on 2021-08-13 12:32:41 GMT from United States)
"Just because a program, or library, makes it into the FreeBSD ports tree does not mean it is going to be included in the Base System installation. "
We shall see in the coming months/years. :-)
The quotes and commentary you provided does not preclude systemd from spreading to BSDs.
"I'm only a Doctor. Not a miracle worker"
Whatever you say, Bones.
49 • So what has changed *NOW*? ((38 • defragging btrfs (by Simon Plaistowe...}} (by R. Cain on 2021-08-13 13:37:31 GMT from United States)
"My only drive using btrfs is the storage drive... No need yet for any defragmentation..."
"...workstations, they're all ext4 ...and I've never ever had to defrag any of 'em!... when I remember to run it, e4d
efrag INVARIABLY TELLS ME IT'S NOT NEEDED. Score is always 0 or 1 (and 56 is the recommended threshold above which you ought to defrag)."
************************************************************************************************
I seem to remember, from back in the Pleistocene Era (when everyone was running some variant of Windows--3.1; 3.11, 95; 98...), that a VERY standard--requisite--drill was the defragmentation of the hard drive; performed almost religiously by serious users. The 'defrag' option was a built-in "menu option" on Windows
Some people would run "defrag" once a week; the more slovenly would wait a month. It was a common response to a "newb's" complaint of a slowing-down computer, to start the attack of the problem by running "defrag", and that this most certainly would probably solve all the user's problems.
I also seem to remember that when we serious users discovered Linux, and brought along our "...you need to defrag the hard drive all the time..." 'muscle memory' from Windows, being advised by Linux Cognicenti that Linux, unlike Windows, did NOT require hard-drive defragmentation; and, furthermore--"LEAVE IT ALONE!"
All I can say is that, in the more than twenty years I've been running various flavors of Linux on a lot of different machines, I have taken "The Cognicenti"s advice. I have *never* "de-fragged" a Linux hard drive. I have *never* had a problem.
What is different now? What has changed?
50 • defrag (by Trihexagonal on 2021-08-13 17:16:31 GMT from United States)
I thought defrag was a Windows thing and this the first time I've heard it mentioned while using Linux or FreeBSD.
When using FreeBSD if the power goes out and you don't shutdown cleanly the System will run fsck during the boot process to check for and fix any file system errors.
If it's serious enough you may have to boot into Single-user mode and run it from there. I've never had to in 16 years, starting as a beta tester for PC-BSD in 2005 before moving to FreeBSD.
If during the normal boot process if you haven't made a keystroke in 60 seconds after hitting the CLI it will start fsck in the background automatically to check the file system.
@47 No more than your comment qualifies as a diagnosis of cancer, or indicates Chemo, Radiology or Surgery is required.
You'll do fine with FreeBSD I'm sure. I, or one of my associates, will be waiting patiently for your arrival to make you comfortable and assist you as needed.
We discussed the possibility of SystemD metastasis last night in conference. It is our prognosis it will not spread further than the ports tree.
51 • To the 72% of you who checked the "I No Not Use Btrfs" box-- (by R. Cain on 2021-08-13 23:16:18 GMT from United States)
...perhaps you need to learn something new; to discover a really good, well-supported distribution by a major player, i.e., from a source which is NOT driven by the "Move Fast and Break Things'" syndrome: Fedora 34.
You might find it liberating--to say nothing of almost magical--to discover a distribution which does not fill you with the dread of wondering what, exactly, is going to break, and is NOT going to work when you upgrade to the newest version.
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| • Issue 1096 (2024-11-11): Bazzite 40, Playtron OS Alpha 1, Tucana Linux 3.1, detecting Screen sessions, Redox imports COSMIC software centre, FreeBSD booting on the PinePhone Pro, LXQt supports Wayland window managers |
| • Issue 1095 (2024-11-04): Fedora 41 Kinoite, transferring applications between computers, openSUSE Tumbleweed receives multiple upgrades, Ubuntu testing compiler optimizations, Mint partners with Framework |
| • Issue 1094 (2024-10-28): DebLight OS 1, backing up crontab, AlmaLinux introduces Litten branch, openSUSE unveils refreshed look, Ubuntu turns 20
| | • Issue 1093 (2024-10-21): Kubuntu 24.10, atomic vs immutable distributions, Debian upgrading Perl packages, UBports adding VoLTE support, Android to gain native GNU/Linux application support |
| • Issue 1092 (2024-10-14): FunOS 24.04.1, a home directory inside a file, work starts of openSUSE Leap 16.0, improvements in Haiku, KDE neon upgrades its base |
| • Issue 1091 (2024-10-07): Redox OS 0.9.0, Unified package management vs universal package formats, Redox begins RISC-V port, Mint polishes interface, Qubes certifies new laptop |
| • Issue 1090 (2024-09-30): Rhino Linux 2024.2, commercial distros with alternative desktops, Valve seeks to improve Wayland performance, HardenedBSD parterns with Protectli, Tails merges with Tor Project, Quantum Leap partners with the FreeBSD Foundation |
| • Issue 1089 (2024-09-23): Expirion 6.0, openKylin 2.0, managing configuration files, the future of Linux development, fixing bugs in Haiku, Slackware packages dracut |
| • Issue 1088 (2024-09-16): PorteuX 1.6, migrating from Windows 10 to which Linux distro, making NetBSD immutable, AlmaLinux offers hardware certification, Mint updates old APT tools |
| • Issue 1087 (2024-09-09): COSMIC desktop, running cron jobs at variable times, UBports highlights new apps, HardenedBSD offers work around for FreeBSD change, Debian considers how to cull old packages, systemd ported to musl |
| • Issue 1086 (2024-09-02): Vanilla OS 2, command line tips for simple tasks, FreeBSD receives investment from STF, openSUSE Tumbleweed update can break network connections, Debian refreshes media |
| • Issue 1085 (2024-08-26): Nobara 40, OpenMandriva 24.07 "ROME", distros which include source code, FreeBSD publishes quarterly report, Microsoft updates breaks Linux in dual-boot environments |
| • Issue 1084 (2024-08-19): Liya 2.0, dual boot with encryption, Haiku introduces performance improvements, Gentoo dropping IA-64, Redcore merges major upgrade |
| • Issue 1083 (2024-08-12): TrueNAS 24.04.2 "SCALE", Linux distros for smartphones, Redox OS introduces web server, PipeWire exposes battery drain on Linux, Canonical updates kernel version policy |
| • Issue 1082 (2024-08-05): Linux Mint 22, taking snapshots of UFS on FreeBSD, openSUSE updates Tumbleweed and Aeon, Debian creates Tiny QA Tasks, Manjaro testing immutable images |
| • Issue 1081 (2024-07-29): SysLinuxOS 12.4, OpenBSD gain hardware acceleration, Slackware changes kernel naming, Mint publishes upgrade instructions |
| • Issue 1080 (2024-07-22): Running GNU/Linux on Android with Andronix, protecting network services, Solus dropping AppArmor and Snap, openSUSE Aeon Desktop gaining full disk encryption, SUSE asks openSUSE to change its branding |
| • Issue 1079 (2024-07-15): Ubuntu Core 24, hiding files on Linux, Fedora dropping X11 packages on Workstation, Red Hat phasing out GRUB, new OpenSSH vulnerability, FreeBSD speeds up release cycle, UBports testing new first-run wizard |
| • Issue 1078 (2024-07-08): Changing init software, server machines running desktop environments, OpenSSH vulnerability patched, Peppermint launches new edition, HardenedBSD updates ports |
| • Issue 1077 (2024-07-01): The Unity and Lomiri interfaces, different distros for different tasks, Ubuntu plans to run Wayland on NVIDIA cards, openSUSE updates Leap Micro, Debian releases refreshed media, UBports gaining contact synchronisation, FreeDOS celebrates its 30th anniversary |
| • Issue 1076 (2024-06-24): openSUSE 15.6, what makes Linux unique, SUSE Liberty Linux to support CentOS Linux 7, SLE receives 19 years of support, openSUSE testing Leap Micro edition |
| • Issue 1075 (2024-06-17): Redox OS, X11 and Wayland on the BSDs, AlmaLinux releases Pi build, Canonical announces RISC-V laptop with Ubuntu, key changes in systemd |
| • Issue 1074 (2024-06-10): Endless OS 6.0.0, distros with init diversity, Mint to filter unverified Flatpaks, Debian adds systemd-boot options, Redox adopts COSMIC desktop, OpenSSH gains new security features |
| • Issue 1073 (2024-06-03): LXQt 2.0.0, an overview of Linux desktop environments, Canonical partners with Milk-V, openSUSE introduces new features in Aeon Desktop, Fedora mirrors see rise in traffic, Wayland adds OpenBSD support |
| • Issue 1072 (2024-05-27): Manjaro 24.0, comparing init software, OpenBSD ports Plasma 6, Arch community debates mirror requirements, ThinOS to upgrade its FreeBSD core |
| • Issue 1071 (2024-05-20): Archcraft 2024.04.06, common command line mistakes, ReactOS imports WINE improvements, Haiku makes adjusting themes easier, NetBSD takes a stand against code generated by chatbots |
| • Issue 1070 (2024-05-13): Damn Small Linux 2024, hiding kernel messages during boot, Red Hat offers AI edition, new web browser for UBports, Fedora Asahi Remix 40 released, Qubes extends support for version 4.1 |
| • Issue 1069 (2024-05-06): Ubuntu 24.04, installing packages in alternative locations, systemd creates sudo alternative, Mint encourages XApps collaboration, FreeBSD publishes quarterly update |
| • Issue 1068 (2024-04-29): Fedora 40, transforming one distro into another, Debian elects new Project Leader, Red Hat extends support cycle, Emmabuntus adds accessibility features, Canonical's new security features |
| • Issue 1067 (2024-04-22): LocalSend for transferring files, detecting supported CPU architecure levels, new visual design for APT, Fedora and openSUSE working on reproducible builds, LXQt released, AlmaLinux re-adds hardware support |
| • Issue 1066 (2024-04-15): Fun projects to do with the Raspberry Pi and PinePhone, installing new software on fixed-release distributions, improving GNOME Terminal performance, Mint testing new repository mirrors, Gentoo becomes a Software In the Public Interest project |
| • Issue 1065 (2024-04-08): Dr.Parted Live 24.03, answering questions about the xz exploit, Linux Mint to ship HWE kernel, AlmaLinux patches flaw ahead of upstream Red Hat, Calculate changes release model |
| • Issue 1064 (2024-04-01): NixOS 23.11, the status of Hurd, liblzma compromised upstream, FreeBSD Foundation focuses on improving wireless networking, Ubuntu Pro offers 12 years of support |
| • Issue 1063 (2024-03-25): Redcore Linux 2401, how slowly can a rolling release update, Debian starts new Project Leader election, Red Hat creating new NVIDIA driver, Snap store hit with more malware |
| • Issue 1062 (2024-03-18): KDE neon 20240304, changing file permissions, Canonical turns 20, Pop!_OS creates new software centre, openSUSE packages Plasma 6 |
| • Issue 1061 (2024-03-11): Using a PinePhone as a workstation, restarting background services on a schedule, NixBSD ports Nix to FreeBSD, Fedora packaging COSMIC, postmarketOS to adopt systemd, Linux Mint replacing HexChat |
| • Issue 1060 (2024-03-04): AV Linux MX-23.1, bootstrapping a network connection, key OpenBSD features, Qubes certifies new hardware, LXQt and Plasma migrate to Qt 6 |
| • Issue 1059 (2024-02-26): Warp Terminal, navigating manual pages, malware found in the Snap store, Red Hat considering CPU requirement update, UBports organizes ongoing work |
| • Issue 1058 (2024-02-19): Drauger OS 7.6, how much disk space to allocate, System76 prepares to launch COSMIC desktop, UBports changes its version scheme, TrueNAS to offer faster deduplication |
| • Issue 1057 (2024-02-12): Adelie Linux 1.0 Beta, rolling release vs fixed for a smoother experience, Debian working on 2038 bug, elementary OS to split applications from base system updates, Fedora announces Atomic Desktops |
| • Issue 1056 (2024-02-05): wattOS R13, the various write speeds of ISO writing tools, DSL returns, Mint faces Wayland challenges, HardenedBSD blocks foreign USB devices, Gentoo publishes new repository, Linux distros patch glibc flaw |
| • Issue 1055 (2024-01-29): CNIX OS 231204, distributions patching packages the most, Gentoo team presents ongoing work, UBports introduces connectivity and battery improvements, interview with Haiku developer |
| • Issue 1054 (2024-01-22): Solus 4.5, comparing dd and cp when writing ISO files, openSUSE plans new major Leap version, XeroLinux shutting down, HardenedBSD changes its build schedule |
| • Issue 1053 (2024-01-15): Linux AI voice assistants, some distributions running hotter than others, UBports talks about coming changes, Qubes certifies StarBook laptops, Asahi Linux improves energy savings |
| • Issue 1052 (2024-01-08): OpenMandriva Lx 5.0, keeping shell commands running when theterminal closes, Mint upgrades Edge kernel, Vanilla OS plans big changes, Canonical working to make Snap more cross-platform |
| • Issue 1051 (2024-01-01): Favourite distros of 2023, reloading shell settings, Asahi Linux releases Fedora remix, Gentoo offers binary packages, openSUSE provides full disk encryption |
| • Issue 1050 (2023-12-18): rlxos 2023.11, renaming files and opening terminal windows in specific directories, TrueNAS publishes ZFS fixes, Debian publishes delayed install media, Haiku polishes desktop experience |
| • Issue 1049 (2023-12-11): Lernstick 12, alternatives to WINE, openSUSE updates its branding, Mint unveils new features, Lubuntu team plans for 24.04 |
| • Issue 1048 (2023-12-04): openSUSE MicroOS, the transition from X11 to Wayland, Red Hat phasing out X11 packages, UBports making mobile development easier |
| • Issue 1047 (2023-11-27): GhostBSD 23.10.1, Why Linux uses swap when memory is free, Ubuntu Budgie may benefit from Wayland work in Xfce, early issues with FreeBSD 14.0 |
| • Issue 1046 (2023-11-20): Slackel 7.7 "Openbox", restricting CPU usage, Haiku improves font handling and software centre performance, Canonical launches MicroCloud |
| • Full list of all issues |
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ATmission
ATmission was a Fedora-based Linux live CD that enables you to experiment with the Linux operating system and other open source software, without the requirement to install Linux on your PC. The ATmission Live CD contains the KDE desktop, OpenOffice.org, and many other application programs.
Status: Discontinued
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| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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