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1 • UbuntuCE (by Onyx on 2021-08-02 03:20:02 GMT from New Zealand)
As a committed believer, I say "Thou shalt filter UbuntuCE out."
Unless of course they see the light and re-base onto Arch. :D
2 • opinion poll and beyond (by Blues T. Cha on 2021-08-02 03:23:49 GMT from Japan)
"These rules include filtering out projects that violate trademark and which represent a specific political, artistic, or religious groups"
First of all, I wonder if the AND is actually an OR. Do you need to violate a trademark AND meet another criteria to be rejected?
Second, couldn't "free software" in the Stallmanian sense be a "political" formation? Not to mention every country (and linguistic division aspiring to independence) that has a nationally-oriented distribution. Would a Catalonian-language distro be banned? The NLD in Burma, if they had a security-focused Burmese language distro = no? Maybe it is important to not attract the attention of Saudi assassins, Israeli snipers, US drones...?
Third, for completeness, since we are on the topic, why are artistic groups banned? Aren't tiling window managers an artistic choice? Are Cubists a danger to free software? I suppose you are trying to block distros that are dedicated to Korean boy bands or something like that?
"These rules include" -> So what other rules are there?
If the goal is to set aside groups that are exclusive, e.g. Christians only, or Muslims only, I suppose that might make sense to say they are not of general interest -- or they could have a special corner or sidebar for fringe distros. Aren't distros that require you to pay also exclusionary to the poor, though?
I say include everything, like a dictionary includes the latest offensive words. Create new categories as needed.
3 • Reporting on a formerly dormant distribution (by pengxuin on 2021-08-02 04:09:23 GMT from New Zealand)
well, this is a dilemma!
perhaps one of them pesky "other"s!
evolve your criteria, as you have in the past.
originally, all and sundry were acceptable, then rules were put in place;
(These rules include filtering out projects that violate trademark and which represent a specific political, artistic, or religious groups).
as an aside, perhaps the authors of UCE could be persuaded to change their branding (for obvious reasons: trademark violation) and resubmit under a new name.
4 • Ubuntu CE: Two ways of looking at it (by eco2geek on 2021-08-02 04:09:59 GMT from United States)
If you have rules in place that apply to the inclusion of Ubuntu spins, then Ubuntu CE, having gone away before the rules were in place, and now come back, ought to be subject to those rules.
There's another way to look at it, though. If you remember, there was also an Ubuntu spin named "Ubuntu Satanic Edition", which included its own wallpaper, themes, and a collection of free heavy metal music. (You can get a copy of v666.9 at archiveos.org/ubuntu-satanic .) If Ubuntu Christian Edition will agree to also maintain Ubuntu Satanic Edition, then I say, bend your rules and add 'em both to your database.
5 • UbuntuCE (by Heinz on 2021-08-02 05:54:29 GMT from Switzerland)
Once you have your rules and criteria you have to follow them. (Which does not mean your rules and criteria are right)
6 • SUSE (by Any on 2021-08-02 06:06:30 GMT from Spain)
The only feature/service of SUSE I liked was SuseStudio but they shut it down. Now this.
Besides the codecs question...
7 • UbuntuCE (by ybolu on 2021-08-02 06:16:34 GMT from Turkey)
#5 by Heinz. I think exactly the same.
In this case, you either revise and update the rules and criteria, or follow them without exception.
8 • Is Pacstall integrated with Ubuntu's package manager (by Integrated on 2021-08-02 06:20:40 GMT from United States)
The Pacstall scripts look quite similar to AUR's PKGBUILD scripts. This is nice: it should be easy to port packages from AUR to Pacstall. That explains also why Pacstall, like AUR, is source based and needs to compile the software.
I'm curious though, is Pacstall is in any way integrated with Ubuntu's regular package managers, synaptic, apt? If not then will these package managers bite each other at some time? Do you need to keep track which package was installed with which package manager? How about conflict resolution when apt and Pacstall want to install or remove the same files in say /usr/bin?
9 • UbuntuCE (by papapito on 2021-08-02 06:27:43 GMT from Australia)
So UbuntuCE came back from the dead?
They are really committed to the theatrics.
I see no reason for an old and abandoned spin to warrant updates in anyway. Maybe instead of DORMANT change it's status to UNTRACKED?
10 • trademark violation = ban (by Blues T. Cha on 2021-08-02 06:54:15 GMT from Japan)
OK, I see that the main issue is that UCE is violating the trademark of Ubuntu. In that case I think you have to ban that. I can't legally start a distro called openSUSEe or FedoraN, either, I suppose, without living under a cloud of impending legal action.
The political, artistic, or religious prohibition doesn't apply -- but seems wrong and difficult to enforce. What about Red Flag Linux (discontinued)? At least the branding was political. I suppose what your guidelines mean in practice is "We reserve the right to not list any Linux distributions (for any reason, including) political, artistic(?), and religious groups (which may be illegal or banned in certain countries where DistroWatch is accessible)"...?
11 • previously dormant distribution (by Romane on 2021-08-02 07:18:01 GMT from Australia)
Simple - it became dormant (read "dead in the water") and now wants to be "revived. So far as this mind is concerned, "things" don't simply come back to life. It was dormant, it want to again be alive, it should be treated as a new distribution and be treated under current rules, not the rules of its dead predecessor.
I say this as a "religious" person, and though a member of a Faith other than Christianity (though all come from the same Source and are absolutely identical in their essential aspects), can see, from said religious viewpoint, value in such a distribution focused in a religious manner.
But this is not a revival, whatever might be said, of a defunct distribution, but the beginning of a new distribution, albeit based on the same base and drawing their inspiration, it is assumed, from its predecessor.
So let it be treated as what it is - a new distribution - nothing dead comes back to life - whatever claims it may make about being a supposed continuation.
My argument applies to _all_ dormant distributions which claim to be a revival, irrespective of their background, religious or not - treat them all as new distributions under whatever criteria is current at the time.
Romane
12 • Opinion Poll (by yetanothergeek on 2021-08-02 07:50:18 GMT from United States)
Another option might be to drop these criteria altogether (other than the legal/copyright issues). The question to me is, where do you draw the line? Is Bodhi Linux a Buddhist distribution? Does TAILS have an anarchistic political agenda? If my last name is Smith and I create "Smith Linux" it's okay, but what if my last name is Christian?
(Just playing devil's advocate here - really, I think the rules are fine.)
13 • criteria (by Ada on 2021-08-02 08:25:48 GMT from United States)
I think we've reached the era where it's time for a rethink on the rules regarding political, artistic, or religious groups. In 2020 a lot more of the world realized how privileged a position it is to be apolitical, and was reminded how much neutrality supports the side of the oppressor in questions of politics, religion, and other subjects. Why not just exclude the groups whose fundamental philosophies include harming others?
14 • tetchy tech groups (by parochius on 2021-08-02 08:51:19 GMT from Canada)
The criteria are well explained: "We are interested in distributions which fill a technological purpose.", whereas UCE wants to "bring Linux to Christians." Parochial distros like UCE, USE, Red Star, etc., should read the criteria and self-exclude their distros accordingly. They can promote their distros on related religious / political / artist websites instead.
However, if they persist with a request, be courteous and gentle with your rejection. You wouldn't want to get them offside, and end up with an army of hackers harassing you 24/7.
15 • Religious editions? (by Akoya on 2021-08-02 08:57:40 GMT from Canada)
Religion is is old-fashioned, usually brought in problems, rather than solutions.
16 • Ubuntu CE (by kc1di on 2021-08-02 09:37:35 GMT from United States)
I believe that all Distros should be allowed but maybe put them under a tag or section called specialty Distros. Which would include all religious and Secular Distros that fill a specific groups needs. For instance not only Ubuntu CE but there was a few years back a ham radio distro or spin There have been others that specifically target certain users and groups.
17 • Opinion poll (by oily on 2021-08-02 10:03:12 GMT from United States)
Unless including a distro would put Distrowatch in legal hot water then I don't think there's a good reason to exclude distros. If they are related to a political, religious or other kind of group, that's just part of the diversity of people and FOSS. There are of course limits, but common sense should handle that.
18 • pacstall (Arch) vs. brew.sh (MacOS) (by Matt E on 2021-08-02 10:05:57 GMT from United States)
Between the already huge section of the Ubuntu repository and "brew.sh", I have no need for pacstall. I have no need for Arch fanboy fanaticism on my Ubuntu machine. As far as I'm concerned, the macOS religion is more hip and cool. It is interesting to have a bit of a macOS connection on my Ubuntu and Debian machines.
I'll admit Arch and its community is truly awesome.
19 • religion, pacinstall, fwul (by jay on 2021-08-02 11:00:53 GMT from United States)
Sorry I simply dont see religions as diversity. Is there/Should there be a Snowball Linux for um...certain "diverse" LGBTQQIAA activities? I don't think so.
Linux has nothing to do with pointing out diversity, except for blind inclusion. Everyone is welcome, nobody is singled out. That has been working and keeps things simple.
As for latest FWUL distro...on Manjaro
it looks like preaching. Which makes no sense.
People will use, with what they find comfort, style, ease, capacity.
If something in the equation is missing, then no amount of preaching is going to change the anxious into die hard fans.
Meet the customer, don't dump on customers. :/
That said,
for linux power uses, manjaro clones are amazing.
I'm still new to whole arch environment, so bear with me, but seems like manjaro
has a lot of interesting clones of late, I foresee it will remain a contender with debian derivatives. but i a bit torn because mx does a fine job, and debian is so habituated.
Speaking of which, pacinstall sounds interesting, but perhaps strange given that there are now so many options to choose from: containers flatpak and snap, wine, anbox, ubuntu ecosystem, rpms, debs, mint ecosystem are more.
I do like how arch AUR tools feel almost transactional and step by step.
but again, I probably using them differently than Arch power users.
20 • cont'd. (by jay on 2021-08-02 11:09:18 GMT from United States)
As for theme mods, they may cater to a certain diverse group. Why not? But to me these mods are third party "look and feel dressing" rather than under the hood differences.
21 • UbuntuCE (by penguinx86 on 2021-08-02 11:27:18 GMT from United States)
UbuntuCE? Sure, why not? I don't have a problem with religious distros for Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hindu or other religions. What I have a problem with is distros that seem to be abandoned by developers and haven't been updated in over 5 years. It seems like there are way too many Ubuntu Me Too distros that are a flash in the pan. They're announced with lots of hype for a couple of months, then forgotten a few years later. It's not that hard to use synaptic to install a bible package. I don't see a need for a whole separate distro just to read the Bible, Quran, or other religious texts.
22 • Religion not acceptable but humanism and Marxism yes? (by Gerard Lally on 2021-08-02 11:30:31 GMT from Ireland)
The word ubuntu itself has a philosophical, some would say spiritual connotation. Why not ban Ubuntu the distro then? Or antix, whose dev team are unambiguous and unashamed in their political bias?
23 • "Handling formerly dormant projects..." (by R. Cain on 2021-08-02 12:26:15 GMT from United States)
It's YOUR website.
Most all decisions you make regarding how you run it are unilateral.
YOU make the decision, and just move on.
24 • Covert distros (by Brother Ben on 2021-08-02 12:33:43 GMT from United States)
"These rules include filtering out projects that violate trademark and which represent a specific political, artistic, or religious groups"
What about covert distros such as Antix! Just install and see the anti theme.
If you include THAT distro, then allow other openly defined distros, such as Ubuntu CU.
Antix has always bothered me on their convert message. I say allow other messages as well.
25 • Reporting on a formerly dormant distribution (by Vince on 2021-08-02 12:52:17 GMT from Canada)
I think the database should purge distributions that don't meet the standards, except where a distribution did meet a technological need and is now discontinued or dormant. It is good to be able to check the status of a project. I wouldn't use Vector Linux or Zenwalk when they were dormant, for example, but they were very helpful when the projects were developed.
The reason I say this is for example, currently the page of UbuntuCE is out of date. Maintaining and updating it doesn't really offer value except for those in one religion. Leaving the page outdated does a disservice to the community as it could mislead people with wrong information. Just favoring this distribution is unfair. Grandfathering them under old rules just makes all religious branding of distributions needed inclusion to be fair. These rebrandings don''t advance technology.
26 • FWIW (by Tad Strange on 2021-08-02 12:56:34 GMT from Canada)
FWUL could be classed as political, since it seems to exist to present a viewpoint. Else what is it other than a badge engineered Manjaro?
It seems like your criteria are meant to exclude distributions that do little to nothing to advance the technology, being little more than a custom theme and software selection. If that's the case then CE should be left behind, and several other active ones ought to be pruned as well.
Which brings up another point - why is DW acting as a museum for dead software? CE has gone without update since 2012. If a project becomes abandoned and unsupported, why not simply remove it?
Then issues such as this would not come up in the first place.
27 • Ubuntu CE (by Stefan on 2021-08-02 13:04:15 GMT from Germany)
If you care to make rules, you should follow them. Purge Ubuntu CE from your database and, optionally, move it into some kind of archive of formerly included distributions.
28 • UCE and inclusivity (by A different Jay on 2021-08-02 13:59:14 GMT from Poland)
I've no objection to including any distributions with religious, cultural, or national themes (specifically including Christianity, but not limited to it) in the database.
I *do* have a problem with propagating nation-state attempts at surveillance malware like Red Star Linux, though.
Rejecting 'religious' distros would have denied me an excellent Zen-themed Linux project I'd still be using were it under active development and blocking 'retread releases' would have cost me Finnix (which recently reactivated after a lengthy hiatus).
Perhaps defining dormancy (from here on in) as "inactive for more than two and less than five years" is the best compromise position.
After five years, a distro could be labeled "historical" in the database and future 'late to the party' releases (with the same name) should be considered entirely new database entries.
29 • Each to his own (by Friar Tux on 2021-08-02 13:59:42 GMT from Canada)
To me, there's really no question/poll here. This is DW's site, they can admin it as they see fit. I don't really see Ubuntu CE as an actual, separate distro so much as a theme mod. I use Linux Mint/Cinnamon. I have reworked a theme to my liking. (For example in place of the cautionary exclamation triangle I have replaced that with DR. Zook™ from Hagar The Horrible™ comics. (Just one small example.)) That doesn't make my distro "new", or a specialty distro.
As for distros that are dead or discontinued, if you want to try any just go to archiveos.org. You'll find just about any distro that ever existed.
30 • Feeling-the-need-for-speed's question about laptop speed difference (by Mike Simms on 2021-08-02 14:03:58 GMT from United Kingdom)
You've covered most of the main points but it's worth mentioning that the AMD processors are very low TDP models and it very much depends how Dell integrated them into the laptops as to how much speed you'll actually get from them. While power delivery shouldn't be an issue if the cooling is not sufficient it will be throttled and never 'boost'.
There's also a much lower level of cache on the AMD chip compared to the older Intel. That has a greater impact than people tend to think.
Drivers - The kernel will automatically choose either the radeon or amdgpu driver depending on the age of an AMD APU and what graphics component is detected. There are no longer any additional drivers available for AMD APU based laptops.
31 • Re: Slow Dell/AMD system on Linux (by Jakester on 2021-08-02 14:04:49 GMT from United States)
I have a Dell Inspiron 5575 with Ryzen 7 + Vega 10 graphics. The big issue is that most Linux distros will not boot unless you edit default kernel args to include "iommu=soft" and "radeon.modeset=0". My understanding is that it is a limitation / restriction of Dell BIOS in particular on certain models, being setup for Windows but not specifically to be Linux-boot-compatible. So it may not be probing / using AMD-specific drivers, hence possibly impacting performance esp. accelerated graphics. FWIW.
32 • Revive Ubuntu CE (by duskull on 2021-08-02 14:07:20 GMT from Bulgaria)
I say make an exception here and post just the releases about it, not the release announcements. CE was a nice distro and at least it needs to be to be listed as "active" again.
33 • Ubuntu CE (by Luke on 2021-08-02 14:11:52 GMT from United States)
I suspect most people don't particularly care how you handle it, as dormant projects aren't likely to have many fans anyway. Even the more vehement commenters above probably wouldn't have even noticed if you made a decision already. And, let's face it, it's unlikely to attract permanent attention anyway.
I think to be a useful resource to newcomers is to focus on and direct them toward the major distros with lots of activity, support, and longevity. If anything, for completeness sake, you might include distros like this in an "untracked" list, maybe attached to the pages of major distros. Like for Ubuntu you'd highlight the official Canonical derivatives like Kubuntu, other tracked derivatives like Mint, and finally a list of untracked respins like this, maybe in a sortable, paginated table with the most recently updated up top by default. That way you don't have to think too hard about the status of distros that haven't been updated in a while, as they'll be buried by the pagination.
34 • @24 AntiX (and MX) (by mchlbk on 2021-08-02 14:18:03 GMT from Denmark)
AntiX has a developer with certain political opinons - the distro isn't for people who share those opinions. Just like most distros, the community behind AntiX is made up of people with different opinions. You leave your political opinion at the door, so to speak. Ubuntu CE is different. It's made for people with a certain religious view and it seeks to promote that view.
Also, AntiX isn't just Debian with a different theme. It's actually developed to run on 'outdated' computers. Ubuntu CE, on the other hand, offers nothing new. It's just Ubuntu with another theme.
There's no compaing the two.
Btw. I notice you called it 'Anti'. I could be wrong but I think you misunderstand the name. I've always read 'AntiX' as 'Antiques'. A distro for old hardware, in other words. Not 'anti' anything.
35 • Religious editions (by Pat Menendez on 2021-08-02 14:48:14 GMT from Canada)
Isn't there enough "community standards" censorship in the media already? Does the Linux Kernel care what the belief system or to which political system the user adheres? Does Distrowatch believe that a believer or political activist is incapable of adding value to or enhancing the Linux landscape? Unless someone is overtly using a distro for subversive purposes, who gives a damn what they believe or what their political leaning is? Brilliant creative coders come in all stripes and colors! By rights, the name means absolutely nothing. Technically, any NON Western based distros are made by people who likely don't share your beliefs or political views. To say that Rosa, an incredibly stable and reliable distro from Russia is pure communism is rubbish! To say that all distros originating from Muslim countries should be banned is absurd! Enough of thought police. If a distro offends the community, it will die on it's own. Ultimately, being listed on Distrowatch does not indicate that the distro is of interest to anyone or will succeed. "Distrowatch Database Summary" shows that 925 distros have been listed on Distrowatch and only 275 are still active. I would suggest that time is the arbiter of success for a distro, whether it has anything to contribute to the Linux landscape, rather than meeting Distrowatch "Community Standards". Live and let live.
36 • Poll (by dragonmouth on 2021-08-02 14:50:51 GMT from United States)
OH, NO! Wokism is coming to the Linux near you!
As R.Cain says "it's YOUR website" therefore you can set up any kind rules you desire. But since you asked for opinions, IMNSHO, you either allow all distros that may be trying to deliver some kind of message or you allow none. However, you then run into the problem yetanothergeek brings up and that is WHO decides what is or is not a "message"? What may be a "message" to one person or group, may be totally innocuous to others.
I seem to remember the vehement calls for banning of Linux Mint and for Clement Lefebvre's head over his political views. To DW's credit, Mint was not ostracized.
I disagree with anticapitalista's political views but he puts out a useful and serviceable distro in antiX. As far as I can tell, he does not insinuate his views into the distro.
IF I oppose any developers "message" strongly enough, I always have the choice of not using his distro. However, I DO NOT have the right, nor does anybody else, to force their opinion on everybody by demanding that the distro be banned or removed from the DW database.
Distros should be excluded only for legal reasons such as copyright violations.
37 • Ubuntu CE (by Moe on 2021-08-02 15:17:15 GMT from United States)
I say give them the same respect you'd give any other serious distro but try to convince them to use pure Debian as it is pure and not adulterated. (grin)
38 • I think theres room (by Kingneutron on 2021-08-02 15:25:02 GMT from United States)
...for a revived distro to be "grandfathered in" - JMHO
39 • Arch repository size (by Ista on 2021-08-02 15:28:28 GMT from United States)
The feature story claims that Arch repositories are small, suggesting that this increases the need for the AUR. There may be some truth to that, but the size of the Arch repositories cannot be compared apples-to-apples with say the Debian or Ubuntu repositories. Arch tends not so split packages into e.g., *-doc *.dev etc., and instead follows KISS and includes everything in one package. This means that the number of packages in the Arch repositories may be smaller yet contain the same functionality. At the least it is misleading to imply that the size of different distributions' repositories can be directly compared.
40 • Poll (by Ken harbit on 2021-08-02 15:31:12 GMT from United States)
Why do you include Red Hat Linux? You have to purchase it, unless you are a Red Hat Engineer, or own a subscription you can not download it. Also, if I purchase a Red Hat subscription for my company could I make programing changes to a file created and developed by Red Hat Engineers and put it in my (3rd-party) repository (open to the world) without any problems from Red Hat? ... Would I be able to make those changes and include them in my repository if I downloaded the Red Hat Linux source code? Keep in mind, in the first case, a subscription to Red hat IS Red Hat Linux, in the second case I could call it anything as long as it is not Red Hat or infer that it is Red hat. ... Just LOTS of work.
41 • Ubuntu CE (by David on 2021-08-02 16:01:48 GMT from United Kingdom)
The name Ubuntu is a registered trademark of Canonical. If the company could be bothered, they could take action against the producer of Ubuntu CE — imagine what IBM's response would have been if Rocky had been called "Red Hat Free Edition"! Certainly Distrowatch should not be condoning a trade-mark violation.
42 • dormant distribution returning (by Bobbie Sellers on 2021-08-02 16:17:07 GMT from United States)
If the distribution can do useful work I see no reason to bar it from notice and hopefully adequate review. As for keeping the CE out of sight, well sometime Christians do good
work. I experienced their good work in the app from SOGWAP aka Sons Of God With All Power back in my Commodore 64 and Amiga days, They used the empty space on the
distribution floppy disk to publish a good deal of Christian Biblical Text but the Conversion
Utility they supplied worked real well.
bliss - boots & runs a Pretty Cool Linux Operating System aka pclinuxos.
43 • Poll (by Sam on 2021-08-02 16:42:20 GMT from United States)
I voted to not accept the new version of Ubuntu CE. While I disagree with the criteria that bar religious spins or religious distros from Distrowatch (as these spins obviously serve a purpose for a particular audience), I think that if a distro died years ago and only now is being resurrected (forgive the obvious and bad pun), it should be considered a "new" distro with the new criteria applied. This probably points to a question: how long can a distro go dormant before it is considered dead and any future efforts to resurrect it qualify as a "new" distro? We could raise the same question for recent resurrected distros like Pardus or Linspire.
44 • Note from UbuntuCE Creator (by Jereme Hancock on 2021-08-02 16:56:39 GMT from United States)
Hi,
I am the original creator and developer of UbuntuCE. I created it in 2004 and it has always created a stir. I created it with the best intent. I wanted to bring Linux to a group that I felt could benefit from it. When I originally created it I contacted Canonical and they gave their blessing. They even let me create a sub-forum on the official Ubuntu forums.
This new version is cleaner and more polished than any in the past. It also serves to provide a technological solution for a group of users. This is one of the criteria mentioned.
I feel that UbuntuCE meets all the old and new criteria established by DistroWatch.
I hope that voters will look past their own feelings about the group that this distro is geared and vote based on its merits.
Thanks in advance, Jereme
45 • A compromise solution (by Any on 2021-08-02 16:59:10 GMT from Spain)
A solution would be to make rUbuntu - religious Ubuntu with different profiles for various or many religions - cristian, muslim, budhist, judaism, daoism etc.
During the netinstall process the user can chose the religious focus he/she wants. Also there could be a remastering tool in the distro that would let the user make an ISO file with the religious profile of his/her choice.
This is not an easy task and much time and good will will be needed but what an example would it be for peaceful cooperation between different religions.
There is Sun for everyone on the Earth.
46 • UbuntuCE -- why not? (by nooneatall on 2021-08-02 17:23:49 GMT from United States)
You seem to imply that resources / time are limited and you're burdened to include it. If so, then don't bother.
You shouldn't raise the topic because looks like an attack and Linux doesn't need any more dividing / reducing uptake.
Having raised the topic and invited comment, though, this is definitely not an absolute:
"As R.Cain says "it's YOUR website" therefore you can set up any kind rules you desire."
NO: if were to exclude, say, homosexuals, then you doubtless run afoul of some law.
Then there's the general principle that by inviting comment, the site is subject to "public accommodation" principles.
That's not very important for Distrowatch, but this constant repeating that sites are free to "set up any kind of rules" is just foolish disadvantaging yourself with mega-corporations.
47 • AntiX (by John on 2021-08-02 17:59:29 GMT from United States)
Hi all,
I am writing this on an old version of AntiX. Boots and reboots quickly.
I run it on a plug in SD card. Perfect for me. Easy to really back up.
Newer versions have problems?? Not sure why?? Who cares, this one works.
John
48 • reviving dormant distros (by albinard on 2021-08-02 19:01:04 GMT from United States)
You might save yourself some hassles by a minor rephrasing of your criteria:
Instead of
"These rules include filtering out projects that violate trademark and which represent a specific political, artistic, or religious groups"
You might try
These rules include filtering out projects that violate trademark and those which represent specific political, artistic, or religious groups
This would be especially useful now, at a time when a large segment of the population has chosen to associate their own extreme political prejudices with certain specific religions.
49 • Ubuntu CE (by Believing Agnostic on 2021-08-02 19:26:24 GMT from Poland)
I think such decisions shouldn't be based on voting results. If someone asked Windows' users if Linux should be abandoned what would be the end result?
What's really important: what arguments (and their type) are for including it, and what for excluding it?
For example argument against: Having Christian software on distro with SystemD, this devil's spawn init system, would be an abomination, and the only thing worse would be FreeBSD Christian Edition ;)
Another: Christians are extremely intolerant, so we should burn them and their software at the stake!
These are purely "political" arguments*. Should we base decisions on any such arguments? I think not, at least if we want to be politically neutral.
On the other hand non-political arguments: Is there any technical difference between, say, Lubuntu and Ubuntu CE? I think not. They are basically just Ubuntu with some packages pre-installed. So are there some packages more equal than others? If not, we should either remove all Ubuntu derivatives, or include UCE.
Another: Would it harm any other distribution/diversity if it would be included? No.
Would it add value to the site for some group of users? Yes.
Can only Christians use it and benefit from it? Of course no.
I hope you get the idea. Cheers
* They're not necessarily representing author's point of view. In every religion there are more tolerant, and more intolerant believers. Of course there are some religions intended to be/spread evil from the beginning, but in most cases they're just trying to be/find good. The real problem is ignorance, people not always know what is really good, what they religion really says, etc. Ignorance leads to fear, and fear leads people to do many stupid things. Does it mean we should ban all faith? Without concept of God there would be no concept of Man, everyone will become just a bunch of atoms accidentally groupped together for a short period of time. And for atoms we don't have concepts of suffering, of morality, all law is based on belief that we have identity. Can you imagine the world without it?
50 • religious linux distros (by Otis on 2021-08-02 20:41:51 GMT from United States)
No. Please. Stick with the meaning of your rule and don't change the rule. If you do, and allow for church/temple/mosque/etc based distros then the wisdom of DW's use for the linux community becomes polluted with dogma.
If dogma is here, it should only be about pro or con on linux issues such as systemd or various other little belief subsystems inherent in linux/bsd.
IMO.
51 • rules rules rules (by Ghiunhan on 2021-08-02 22:07:33 GMT from United Kingdom)
I'll give an example to make my point.
Crossing the street walking backwards and blindfolded is not against the law. You do it many times, and the police says nothing to you. Years later a law is passed to ban such a behaviour, so nobody can do it. However, police starts to target anybody who ever did it, even those who did it when it wasn't against the law. Does that sound fair?
52 • Keep Ubuntu CE (by Saul of Tarsus on 2021-08-02 23:11:19 GMT from Japan)
My old PC died. Tied different distros with no joy. Install Ubuntu CE. No difference, but three days later it came back to life. Problem is, I'm always drinking coffee while I do PC stuff, and it keeps turning into wine.
53 • ArchiveOS (by Cheker on 2021-08-02 23:23:59 GMT from Portugal)
@29 thanks for mentioning this, Friar. I think I found an image of what was technically the first Linux I ever interacted with, some 10 years ago.
54 • Please, no more online controversy (by Dave on 2021-08-02 23:37:32 GMT from Australia)
Years ago, people just wanted to provide a service, or explore a hobby, or maintain a list of Linux distributions.
People never would have dreamed years ago that in the future, everyone takes your interest and from it spawns sociopolitical issues where there are none.
Because of that, now you have to spend time generating an image to be perceived as good and fair - all you will suffer a torrent of online abuse from all sides. While doing that you have to also become a censor, an umpire, have an official policy on fairness and free speech and what constitutes abuse, and how we use your data blah blah blah etc etc.
And you think, "I just want to write a list and keep it up to date. I didn't want to worry about all that other stuff."
Just keep doing what you've been doing, provide the best list you can and stick to rules that make a bit of sense. No-one has a reason to grumble, it's just a list. Any distros not on it can always advertise themselves on their own websites or social media. It really isn't a big deal.
55 • Ubuntu CE and controversy (by Friar Tuck on 2021-08-02 23:55:45 GMT from United States)
Well, religion and politics always have divided people. Many don't even realize that there is a separation of church and state. People just don't follow this simple rule.
Should we really need a CE of any distro? For your consideration: In the entire history of the world, nothing has killed more people than those holy wars. People just cant' agree on whose God is better, more important or the most righteous.
Years ago, when Ubuntu SE was trying to get listed here, they received a very firm "No" - and this was for all intends and purposes also a faith based distro.
Do we need to have any of this in DW? Probably not. Leave those faith based editions out.
56 • Poll (by Simon on 2021-08-03 00:18:42 GMT from New Zealand)
I selected "other". Revise the Distrowatch criteria so they're fairer and more inclusive, as it seems they used to be. Refusing to list a distro because it represents "a specific political, artistic, or religious group" makes no sense: if the distro is breaking laws (around hate speech or whatever) then you're simply following the law by refusing to promote it...but if it's not breaking any laws, who are you to censor the activities of others just because they celebrate the beliefs of a particular community? Christian distros, Muslim distros, rainbow distros, environmentalist distros, pacifist distros...if they exist, document them...why are you afraid of documenting what's actually out there, if you're not breaking any laws by doing so? Just do what you do so well, watching the distros and documenting what they're doing: leave the censorship to the lawmakers.
57 • Please, no more online controversy (by Dave on 2021-08-03 00:20:32 GMT from Australia)
Years ago, people just wanted to provide a service, or explore a hobby, or maintain a list of Linux distributions.
People never would have dreamed years ago that in the future, everyone takes your interest and from it spawns sociopolitical issues where there are none.
Because of that, now you have to spend time generating an image to be perceived as good and fair - all you will suffer a torrent of online abuse from all sides. While doing that you have to also become a censor, an umpire, have an official policy on fairness and free speech and what constitutes abuse, and how we use your data blah blah blah etc etc.
And you think, "I just want to write a list and keep it up to date. I didn't want to worry about all that other stuff."
Just keep doing what you've been doing, provide the best list you can and stick to rules that make a bit of sense. No-one has a reason to grumble, it's just a list. Any distros not on it can always advertise themselves on their own websites or social media. It really isn't a big deal.
58 • Ubuntu CE and controversy (by Friar Tuck on 2021-08-03 00:22:45 GMT from United States)
Well, religion and politics always have divided people. Many don't even realize that there is a separation of church and state. People just don't follow this simple rule.
Should we really need a CE of any distro? For your consideration: In the entire history of the world, nothing has killed more people than those holy wars. People just cant' agree on whose God is better, more important or the most righteous.
Years ago, when Ubuntu SE was trying to get listed here, they received a very firm "No" - and this was for all intends and purposes also a faith based distro.
Do we need to have any of this in DW? Probably not. Leave those faith based editions out.
59 • fewer "distros" please... (by Taros on 2021-08-03 00:31:59 GMT from Morocco)
All derivatives of an upstream distro should uphold higher standards to qualify as "active".
Most notably, keeping up with their upstream base, and having a timely update policy for packages theyre either mirroring or building themselves (can be laxer if theyre using flatpak or snap as a substitute).
There's too many distros already, and custom respins mislead users into assuming theyre as secure and timely updated as the upstream OS theyre derivatives of. They cant just ship once then go inactive for months or years like most users are browsing offline so updates and minimizing divergence with upstream dont matter. Every security issue resolved upstream that hasnt been in the derivatives is a disaster waiting to strike parties unprepared to prevent or reverse it.
Update policies and divergence minimization can be checked using vms running reference updates on a schedule.
60 • Ubuntu CE and "revived" distros *names* (by Deleatur on 2021-08-03 00:53:24 GMT from Argentina)
Real problem is, ANYONE now could search for discontinued "distros" (dormant, if you want), pick a name among those and title his OWN (unrelated) distro that way and that's it. An amazing hack to get a 'new distro' covered in DW, skipping "olympic-style" both criteria and the waiting list.
Regarding Ubuntu CE (and just out of courtesy THIS time) 2nd option *might* be the factible action. Although, if any distro was actually *discontinued/dormant* for long time and now a *different* developer states he wants to revive it, then it cannot be considered as a continuation (remember previous paragraph). It's in fact a "NEW" distro, so actual criteria should be followed (just asking "Why not?" is not a reason whatsoever to choose 1st option).
Just my two cents.
61 • "We are interested in distributions which fill a technological purpose" (by Call him Chuck on 2021-08-03 03:21:48 GMT from United States)
Ooh, tough edge case here. I assume Ubuntu CE serves a niche purpose of historical study, analysis, and devotion, much like Ubuntu Studio serves a niche production purpose. I would /really/ like to see Distrowatch link to every distro with a niche ... but I'm not sure that is the same as meeting a technological need, and therefore I'm not sure it qualifies for a full listing.
62 • rules are (maybe) meant to be borken (by fonz on 2021-08-03 08:41:53 GMT from Indonesia)
let them rise back up and hope everything goes over smoothly. @44 (maybe real?) did leave a comment nicely. i honestly dont mind since it isnt my cup of coffee, but was surprised to see many here do. ah well, your site your rules i guess. life would be much more fun if zombies came back up from the dead.
pacstall (and DUR, durp LOL) sounds nice, but are they compatible with distro upgrades? my oldest debian install was 8, went smoothly to 10 and im guessing will be fine once 11 rolls out since its pretty vanilla IMHO. aside from the official repos, most are pretty generic/portable/compiled binary/appimages which caused no issues when upping the distro over the years. cant say the same with ubuntu, 18.04 > 20.04 was a big miss, even after waiting a few weeks.
glad to see it wasnt the opensuse forums that shutdown. a bunch of them actually go through hell and back to help us out (even though i havent used them for years).
63 • New Rules (by Mike on 2021-08-03 10:57:34 GMT from United States)
This is how it begins; put the frogs in the pot of water and slowly turn up the heat.
64 • Ubuntu CE and rules (by crayola-eater on 2021-08-03 10:58:02 GMT from United States)
While I voted the second option, I don't feel that you should waste any time or effort tracking the project (this one or similar ones in the future)(nor go so far as to re-add it to the 'active' list). If the project in question currently has an information page, and you receive a notice of new activity/update and the project does not meet current standards, then it would still be polite to update the existing page with the updated info. You need go no further than that.
65 • @44 (by Tad Strange on 2021-08-03 14:51:05 GMT from Canada)
"It also serves to provide a technological solution for a group of users"
Could you elaborate how your spin solves a technical issue in the upstream distribution that would otherwise be a problem or barrier to entry for a group of users?
There were and are so many distributions that are little more than badge-engineered derivatives of upstream, that I'm curious and so locked on to that sentence.
66 • @ 44 Security for Christians? (by akoya on 2021-08-03 14:55:38 GMT from Canada)
"The goal of UbuntuCE is to bring the power and security of Ubuntu to Christians."
Really?
Doesn't the church bring "security" to Christians?
67 • Replying to Tad Strange (by Jereme Hancock on 2021-08-03 15:13:42 GMT from United States)
Does UbuntuCE provide a technological solution that couldn't be solved in Ubuntu itself?
No
However, the same could be said about every distro that is based on Ubuntu. We could even go as far as to say there are only a handful of Linux distros that are truly "needed"
What UbuntuCE does and what the concept has always been is to be a pre-packaged distro for a specific audience.
It solves a few things.
1. It provides new users to Linux who are looking for Christian software a simple way to get started.
2. It comes pre-configured with web content filtering. There are many users who are not tech savvy and just want this to work. UbuntuCE strives to make that simple for the user. In the early versions I used Dansguardian. The latest is using CleanBrowsing DNS and a tool that wraps a consolidated hosts file service.
Those are both legitimate technological solutions geared towards the intended user base. This is no different than what distros like Ubuntu Studio try to do.
UbuntuCE has never wanted to be divisive. It is simply trying to provide a product to an audience.
Also I acknowledge that there are many out there that have weaponized Christianity. That is sad and disheartening, but has nothing to do with the efforts being put into UbuntuCE.
68 • Suse Portal (by prolux on 2021-08-03 17:49:10 GMT from Portugal)
Good to know Suse forums are up and running and that the enterprise behind it will never let us down.
69 • UbuntuCE isn't the best name (by PerpetuaLinux on 2021-08-03 18:30:05 GMT from United States)
@mchlbk
antiX quite clearly states on its homepage, "Proudly anti-fascist 'antiX Magic' in an environment suitable for old and new computers." I stopped using it due to its political ideology, as "anti-fascist" always boils down to anarchist and/or Bolshevik leanings.
@Jereme Hancock "there are many out there that have weaponized Christianity"
Bias much?
I do not like UbuntuCE's name, as it uses Canonical's trademark. I wish they'd rename it to PerpetuaLinux (Perpetua was an early Christian who died for her faith) or something like that. But Jesus came back from the dead, so why not UbuntuCE?
70 • Ubuntu CE poll (by Boruch on 2021-08-03 21:05:03 GMT from United States)
I favor eliminating the criteria "political, artistic, or religious
groups", but with the condition that each be clearly labeled and
categorizd in a searchable manner. Doing that would make the
distrowatch search features more widely used and more useful to a
wider audience and doesn't constitute an endorsement. If your
government forbids you from posting information about a certain
distribution, I would like to see that mentioned; If your government
forbids you (ala FISA warrant) or intimidates you from mentioning
that, I'd like some form of warrant canary available.
Slightly off-topic but related, I'd like to see further data for ALL
distributions:
A] Number of developers (eg. 1, 2-5, 6+) and support personel
B] Business model (eg. non-business, non-profit, profit[search fees],
profit[support contracts])
71 • Ubuntu CE (by João Rainha on 2021-08-03 21:28:41 GMT from Portugal)
The only editions I can agree, it's about technology, when mixing religion, there's gonna be some rocking, stay a way, all religions, and go were the sun can find you.
Peaple don't needed, I'm not comunist
72 • A light bulb moment... (by Friar Tux on 2021-08-04 00:52:10 GMT from Canada)
Having read Jereme Hancock's comment (@67) and his explanation for UCE, I find that it also explains dozens of other "new" recent distros. (Feren OS, Garuda OS, Rocky OS, to name only three of many.) So "specific audience" could means any ideological, political, artistic, or technical group. But isn't this what Linux is all about? Any "specific audience" can have their own version/brand of Linux? So long as someone is willing to take up the hammer and anvil and smith up an iteration of Linux for that audience, who are we to banter and bother? I say kudos to Jereme. Go for it. Here's hoping UCE lives long and prospers.
73 • Ubuntu CE (by John on 2021-08-04 01:24:14 GMT from Canada)
Hard Question, I do not know what you should do, but maybe review the reason for the Rule and see if this updated disto would or could violate its original intent.
74 • Ubuntu CE and the rules (by Andy Figueroa on 2021-08-04 04:33:23 GMT from United States)
Wow, that's generating a lot of postings. The truth is, one can't really resurrect an ancient distribution. Too much has changed. One can create a new Ubutu spin with the same underlying flavor an old Ubuntu spin, and like every other new Ubuntu spin, the new spin should meet the underlying standards for being listed here. My underlying assumption is that the standards are not arbirarily prejudicial to the special interests of legitimate affinity group of users. In other words, DW should not automatically black-list Christian, Islamic, Jewish, Education, Astrology, Scientific, or other special interest groups. I also think it's fair to draw the line on any spin that pushes well-accepted harmful ideologies like National Socialism. DW walks a fine line. If DW makes terrible choices, the readers will become non-readers.
75 • Ubuntu CE (by uz64 on 2021-08-04 04:48:40 GMT from United States)
I say keep that religious garbage out of our news feed. I don't think it should be tracked at all, honestly, but as long as I don't see that crap on the front page when I'm trying to find news on legitimate distros then I have no real problem. Maybe as a compromise allow its page to exist for people searching for a Christian "distro," but please... spare the rest of us computer users the religion.
76 • UbuntuCE (by Sammy on 2021-08-04 06:08:22 GMT from United States)
Ultimately your house, your rules
Personally, I come here to read about progress in the Linux distro community and enjoy discovering new things. The assumption I have is reporting on open source software (almost exclusively) implies a lack of censorship and an increase in the reliability of the information provided. I understand having a criteria for maturity but feel that anything more would go against that.
I feel a resurrected project should be labeled as such, if only to allow for a clearer understanding and help manage users experiences (kinda like you already do with your reviews).
Besides, if it's about the name, what about Neptune, Kali or Bodhi just to name a few. If you want pure unadulterated Linux then you can use an "independent" distribution like LFS or Guix.
Besides (part 2), the only things that's ever made me cringe on here are posts about distributions that hide behind paywalls or registrations.
I enjoy visiting your website week after week for these update.
77 • When they can't agree with each other... (by akoya on 2021-08-04 07:47:10 GMT from Canada)
There are more than 200 Christian denominations (distributions) in the US and more than 380 thousand churches there, so do we need a "Christian" Linux distro, when those "Christians" can't even agree with each other?
78 • Opionion poll (by Mike Simms on 2021-08-04 08:49:55 GMT from United Kingdom)
Why make this a poll? It's up to you how you run the site. Anyway, since you went there I believe you should drop all of these amateur distributions regardless of any ideology they may wish to push.
There are so many poor quality spins of Ubuntu, Fedora, Arch and OpenSUSE cluttering the site already that are badly maintained or abandoned.
It's about time you trimmed the crud and focussed on the top 25 distributions only.
If someone wants to submit a new one, how about enforcing a minimum active time of 24 months before allowing it on site and if they don't stay active for at least 12 months after that they get booted off again.
I know you have a large waiting list of submissions but be honest most of them are simple logo and theme changed clones with one or two different packages to the main distribution they are cloning.
79 • Just report the release, let people make up their own minds (by James on 2021-08-04 09:00:07 GMT from Canada)
People should be able to make up their own minds. I won't touch a religious distro such as UbuntuCE or a political one such as antiX, but they should be reported on when a new release happens then people can choose if it's something that appeals to them.
80 • Discontinued Distros (by penguinx86 on 2021-08-04 12:34:30 GMT from United States)
I was a big fan of Commodoer OS Vision, an Ubuntu based distro with a Commodore 64 theme. They did a great job emulating the old school Commodore look and feel. But sadly it was discontinued. The last update was in 2019. I think there is a place for discontinued distros like this, the same as UbuntuCE. But I agree these distros are no longer mainstream and should be put on archive status. Maybe some new developer will try to revive them someday?
81 • @74 Andy Figueroa: (by dragonmouth on 2021-08-04 12:58:08 GMT from United States)
" I also think it's fair to draw the line on any spin that pushes well-accepted harmful ideologies like National Socialism."
While I may agree with you on National Socialism, ANY ideology can be weaponized and/or vilified. Just look at what is happening in the U.S. (not that I am trying to start a political brouhaha). A day does not go by that something else is not declared to be "racist". Who is to be the final arbiter on what is "harmful" and to whom? When humans are making judgements, even they try to be objective, their inherent biases get in the way.
If looked at from the "proper" point of view, ANY distro in the DW database, nay, ANY distro at all, can be found to be objectionable in some way to somebody. Were DW to strictly adhere to its stated rules and policies, no distro could be listed.
82 • Distro reporting criteria and Ubuntu Christian Edition (by Sadi Yumuşak on 2021-08-04 13:03:01 GMT from Turkey)
It might actually be a better idea to reconsider your current criteria, and treat Ubuntu Christian Edition as a legitimate distro, of course without discriminating similar distros representing other faith groups (including atheists, agnostics, etc. as well as other religions) as long as they meet other criteria, where some additional filters may be introduced to maintain a positive climate. Why not adopt an "inclusive" instead of "exclusive" approach in that sense? ;-)
83 • Kali, Goddess of Death, bring me liberation... (by Trihexagonal on 2021-08-04 19:12:48 GMT from United States)
The Hindu Goddess Kali who my Kali Linux desktop is dedicated to and features prominently in screenshots. Is there another Kali?
I guess you haven't heard... Word is the FreeBSD Daemon mascot Beastie, of who I am but one of many Sons, makes us all Devil Worshipers, Son of Satan! Well now, isn't that Special... Though I can't remember the last time we sacrificed a virgin to Evil Incarnate.
I used to use Tao Linux. That was the Way and still is today. The distro itself having transcended to a higher plane.
If a disto makes no reference a Religion doesn't that infer it is Agnostic in belief? A microaggression, I called it. A strict ban on it would be Atheism. Their religion is no religion, and zealots exceedingly noxious t to
II know you're trying to find a comfortable compromise so as not be singled out, publicly shamed and personally discredited by the Enlightened Ones. But as you can see from posts you'll never make everyone happy no matter what you do.
I would include them all, have that information in the description and not make any distinction in grouping beyond those that whined about it and those that did not.
It's your site, you do the work and pay the bills. If money isn't coming in it comes out of your pocket. Choose the path you feel leads to righteousness in your message sent, keeping in mind I'm not nearly as well liked as you.
84 • @83 Trihexagonal, while we're on the subject... (by Friar Tux on 2021-08-04 20:02:29 GMT from Canada)
Garuda in the eagle-like mount of the Hindu god Vishnu on which Vishnu rides through the heavens, while Bodhi is a Buddhist monk that live in around the 5th or 6th century. Distro naming... go figure.
85 • Distro names and purposes (by Notme on 2021-08-05 02:07:48 GMT from Canada)
"Judge not!" Bah! Hogwash. Given a brain and the ability to reason and judge, to tell a person not to do so is like telling him/her not to eat or drink, or breathe. So, on to judgment:
Yes, antiX styles itself as anti-fascist. Now given the nature of fascism, I'm definitely against it, so call me an anti-fascist if you must. Does that lead me to communism, ans someone stated? Not really. I'm just as staunchly anti-communist. Both ideologies see humans as part of a collective rather than as individuals. But say DW wants to avoid distros that espouse causes, ideologies or other belief systems, no matter whether they judge them to be worthwhile or not.
What is the difference between antiX and Ubuntu Christian Edition? Well, I don't use antiX, but I've tried it some years ago. Never went to their website, so I was ignorant about their political stance. The distro did not try to convert me or lead me to information or to any preaching on anti-fascism. It just did it's work. Not for me, but certainly for those who find it useful. On the other hand, Ubuntu CE is for Christians and espouses Christianity (or a version thereof) in its content. DW may judge and do as they want, it's their site, but there are differences.
And how about MX? It's a collaboration with antiX, with anticapitalista being one of its core devs. I must add that anticapitalista has posted many times in this comments section, always on the merits of the distro, and never political talk.
In effect, this weeks survey seems an attempt by DW to avoid judgment and pass it on to users. But in the ends, it DW's choice and they must judge, and after reading the variety of opinions here, DW will also be judged.
@84, Bodhi was a Sanskrit term for final enlightenment. Given Bodhi's choice of desktop, that's probably a better reason for the name than some obscure monk. Garuda is in the state insignia of India, Thailand ans Indonesia, so the name choice may have more to do with natinality than religion. (See Garuda Airlines.)
86 • Opinion Poll (by Daniel on 2021-08-05 07:01:49 GMT from United States)
I'm not religious. Whatever the DistroWatch rules are, apply them evenly.
What happens with regard to distributions that meet the current criteria at the time of their addition to the DistroWatch database, but which later no longer meet that criteria? If they aren't removed, then Ubuntu CE probably shouldn't be, but if they are, then Ubuntu CE should be. Also, do DistroWatch contributors actively monitor when distributions no longer meet the criteria, or just respond when it is brought to their attention?
If RebeccaBlackOS, Swift Linux, Ojuba, Sabily, and a few others remain in DistroWatch's database, Ubuntu CE probably should as well. That being said, I have to admit, sometimes DistroWatch resembles an app skins website, because the barrier for inclusion is so low.
87 • antiX DOES try to "convert" you (by James on 2021-08-05 08:09:58 GMT from Canada)
@Notme actually antiX does (or use) to include bookmarks in the default browser related to their political views, which is their way to trying to "convert" you.
88 • @87 James: (by dragonmouth on 2021-08-05 13:05:00 GMT from United States)
You are stretching the meaning of "convert". ANY bookmarks you don't like can be easily deleted and ones more to your liking can be added. So much for "trying to convert".
89 • UbuntuCE (by lunal on 2021-08-05 16:32:36 GMT from United States)
I think the discussion needs to be rephrased a little bit. The tagline for the opinion poll asks about a "dormant" distro, and a quick ctrl+f finds "dormant" 21 times and "discontinued" 12 (at the time of writing this, obviously). The FAQ draws a clear distinction between the two, and states that a "dormant" distro will automatically change to "active" when a new stable release is published.
While a discussion regarding this policy regarding "dormant" distros may be warrented, it is irrelevant with respect to the status of UbuntuCE. UbuntuCE has been listed as discontinued. It seems to me the matter at hand here is how DistroWatch defines "discontinued." I can't seem to find it defined any more explicitly than the FAQ ("What is the difference between the Dormant and Discontinued status?").
The way that I understand the description of "discontinued" status is analogous to cancelling a subscription (discontinuing a subscription?). If I later decide that I would like to resubscribe, but find that the prices have increased, I am not given the option to resubscribe at my previous rate (I know, sometimes there are promotional offers. That doesn't seem to apply here). Granted each service is able to set their own policy for this, and I would imagine that some services do allow me to select my previous terms; however, it is not the norm.
I would say that in this situation, UbuntuCE is essentially 'resubscribing' to DistroWatch. The most equitable way to handle such situations (both in fairness/transparency, as well as ease on the admins), is to treat such situations as a new application, at the current terms (criteria).
90 • @88 dragonmouth (by James on 2021-08-05 16:46:22 GMT from Canada)
Then neither would a religious distro, unless they make bookmarks, software, wallpaper etc you cannot remove.
91 • Ubuntu Spins (by A-Style on 2021-08-05 17:02:36 GMT from United States)
Everybody is finally discovering just how much work it is to maintain a whole infrastructure that had to be spun up to what end exactly? Supporting a few non-default options in the base system? Just install a few tools, streamline the installation, and make sure it's easy to update. Running an update server just for that is plenty taxing, let alone keeping the whole enchilada up to date.
92 • Vote Counts Changed (by Jereme Hancock on 2021-08-05 18:56:29 GMT from United States)
I am curious. I have been watching the vote counts very closely and I just noticed that options 1 and 3 have been suddenly reduced by a lot. Would like an explanation of what happened since the future of UbuntuCE on DistroWatch hangs in the balance over this "vote".
Thank you
93 • UCE and DW (by Thisjustinagain on 2021-08-05 20:53:28 GMT from United States)
DW is in an interesting position. Do we list a version which we used to list, even though our self-imposed guidelines have changed and it would no longer qualify? At first thought, YES. NO. WHAT? By that I mean I could argue it both ways. But what do you do if new versions come along with the same political/social/religious "baggage"? Is the larger question for DW "should we even bother with the restrictions anymore?" It's not like DW is espousing any position/philosophy by listing a distro, so does it matter? I think not, so DW should update UCE's status and any links, and welcome them back to the party.
94 • likes & changes (by multi-distro-being on 2021-08-06 04:47:22 GMT from France)
@83 "It's your site...Choose the path you feel leads to righteousness...I'm not nearly as well liked as you."
This could be the new-look multi-cultural, multi-party, multi-faith distrowatch - so if you're going to be liked anywhere it's going to be here.
@92 "Vote Counts Changed...options 1 and 3 have been suddenly reduced by a lot"
That's weird, options 1 & 3 were both in the 400s the other day, now 1 is in the 300s and 3 is in the 500s. Is this the work of a higher being? A lower being? Or a hacker being?
95 • Ubuntu CE (by PalomarJack on 2021-08-06 06:22:12 GMT from United States)
I am not a hard core Christian, or whatever, I can't even remember the last time I was in church beyond wedding ceremonies. I don't even use Ubuntu CE, I primarily use Mint/Mate. But, is the Christian religion that bad? Really? There are distributions, right here in DistroWatch that are politically and/or religiously oriented, being updated right now. But they are not Christian or US conservative focused, are they? The distributions from the PRC, North Korea and Antix come to mind. Antix says right on their web site they are anticapitalista, which means anti-free market, also known as marxism/communism/fascism, really all the same. Big centralized governments that stomp on liberty and freedom. Clearly a political position.
How about Sabily, Ubuntu Muslim Edition? It even has prayer times built into it. You will never see that delisted, the admins of DistroWatch no doubt are terrified some Taliban loser will have a temper tantrum and set off a bomb somewhere. Trust me, they don't care.
What should really be cleared up in the rules for inclusion is, "Any distribution than promotes Christian, Free World Patriotism, US conservative or Republican focused ideals in any combination need not apply." Which is fine, just be truthful about it and don't bury it in doublespeak. Own it, be proud of it, but don't lie about it. Let ME decide if I want to use DistroWatch on its merits alone.
96 • Objectivity (by Mattingsley on 2021-08-06 18:23:43 GMT from United States)
With today's vitriol and violence against the "other" humans (people that do not subscribe to the same belief system as you do), I think that this week's poll will have a tendency to be skewed because of people's heartfelt emotional reactions to anything related to religion or politics.
After all, the comments section is neither a wise nor productive place to have a debate about which religious system is best/worse.
The guidelines Jesse has in place are good: they focus efforts on explaining the uniqueness of different distros. When I distrohopped much more frequently in my earlier linux years, I would run across so many Distros that were just polished versions of their parents (no unique tech, exclusive programs, or repositories with updated software). Too many of these "clone" Distros can muddy the water for someone looking for a good distro "home"
My advice would be as follows: If UbuntuCE (or antiX, or Sabily, or WhateverLinux) has benefits to its userbase over the parent distro, include it, but but do not post announcements.
Even going through current Distros and determining which distros fail to align with the new critera and notifying the maintainers might be helpful.
Treat everyone with respect. Especially when you disagree with them!
97 • Time to pare down DistroWatch listings? (by Daniel on 2021-08-06 20:48:00 GMT from United States)
While the majority of Ubuntu's source comes unmodified from Debian, Ubuntu developers do modify some of that source, the Ubuntu project does its own packaging and testing, and it provides some software of its own, as well as other flourishes. Linux Mint and elementary OS heavily rely on many Ubuntu packages, but also provide software of their own and other flourishes.
However, there are many Ubuntu remixes that simply change the default software selection from software already present in the Ubuntu repos, third-party Launchpad PPAs (e.g. Oibaf), and third-party repos (e.g. Google Chrome), and grab artwork off the Internet. They don't actually create (or even tweak) any of the software they use, they just collate package sources and change the default software selection. I wish these existed as online guides instead of distributions, and I wish DistroWatch didn't include these distros, or at least didn't promote them in equal standing. They may save time, but they don't add anything new. This is isn't limited to Ubuntu remixes, but that is an easy example.
98 • Religious Distros (by Otis on 2021-08-06 21:31:59 GMT from United States)
@95 the remarks about this or that religion being good or not good or fair or not fair to be included in DW's pages seem interesting. I'm against any linux/bsd distro being listed here that has any benefit of religion as a portion of its reasoning for being propagated.
But also interesting is that Atea Ataroa Limited is located in a Muslim country. I think their tolerance for the way DW is being run, with choices being made by the DW hands on operators as to the distros included here is very good and points to freedom. Freedom is a good thing, but that's the conundrum: DW is free to show distros that promote religion (if the DW operators want to) and religion in general is not about freedom at all; it's about control and the cessation of free thought past each religion's precepts and dogma.
Kudos for Jesse et al for putting this out here for us to give input.
Number of Comments: 98
Display mode: DWW Only • Comments Only • Both DWW and Comments
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Feather Linux
Feather Linux was a Linux distribution which runs completely off a CD or a USB pendrive and takes up under 128MB of space. It was a Knoppix remaster (based on Debian), and tries to include software which most people would use every day on their desktop.
Status: Discontinued
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