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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Bedrock (by Bob on 2021-07-05 00:48:08 GMT from United States)
The poll is missing one more option: I have not tried Bedrock, but plan to in the near future.
Great review, Jesse.
2 • Bedrock (by vern on 2021-07-05 01:04:13 GMT from United States)
Bedrock sounds like a "Rube Goldberg machine". No thanks. But the review was excellent.
NuTyX shutting down is a reason to choose your distro carefully.
3 • bedrock (by pappito on 2021-07-05 01:49:31 GMT from Singapore)
I thought for a moment Rocky went retro and it took a while for both names to register in my head. I can't say I am too keen on a frankendistro that I will likely make a bigger mess of than I already do with a single distro.
quite a shame about nutyx as it's one less option. but then again, it's one less dilution.
4 • NuTyX (by Stan on 2021-07-05 02:13:01 GMT from United States)
Shutting down? They just released a new version. And their website has removed references to their demise. A change of heart?
5 • Isolation from bad programs; BSD & Linux (by Greg Zeng on 2021-07-05 02:16:36 GMT from Australia)
> " ... Individual programs may misbehave so there needs to be a layer the operating system can wrap around them to isolate poorly functioning code from causing damage. This approach is well suited to an environment with little coordination or control over the individual pieces. ... "
The Q&A section this week is the start of a much bigger puzzle.The more popular operating systems (Windows, Apple, Android) have these problems also. Their "application packages" are more used, but how do they differ from each other? In Linux, we have a very confusing set of "application packages". Traditional Linux forced users to compile from source code; a tedious & highly skilled technique (including AUR).
So then RPM, DEB, "puppy", snap, flatpak, appimage, etc. All these applications have shared problems: dependent libraries, update of parts of whole applications, sensitivity to hardware, user & usage, error recovery, etc.Then Linux has "containers" & many forms of complex virtualizations, emulators, etc.
Thank you for trying to decipher some confusion. The next step might be to translate this Linux mess, so that more people; like myself can also understand.
6 • bedrock etc. (by Adina on 2021-07-05 03:59:12 GMT from United States)
Yet another misguided solution born from the misconception that Arch has weaknesses that all other community distros don't also have.
7 • Bedrock (by Ali on 2021-07-05 04:51:32 GMT from Iran)
@Jesse
In addition to not integrating to application menu, did packages from secondary distributions follow the theme of primary desktop? I found this an issue during my test of earlier versions of Bedrock. This is also the the problem of some cross-distro package managers like Nix. Application looks ugly and there is no clear method to make them use desktop theme. I think, with spreading usage of flatpak and snap,technologies like Bedrock and Nix package manager are loosing their niche.
8 • Bedrock Linux sounds cool but... (by Bobbie Sellers on 2021-07-05 06:32:06 GMT from United States)
It is interesting I but is it ready for casual use? I rather doubt it.
If it was easy to find as a download I might even try the beta in VirtualBox
but I did not spot the .iso file or .img file in much too long an exploration
of its site reading introductory material but finding no image.
By the way I have tried Qubes but I found it confusing as I lose the
ability to multitask a bit more every day.
Better news is the fresh release of PCLinuxOS 64 2021 iso files.
But will get back to you on that.
bliss- - “Nearly any fool can use a Linux computer. Many do.” After all here I am...
9 • Flatpack, snap etc vs distro's package manager (by far2fish on 2021-07-05 07:08:33 GMT from Denmark)
Have anyone seen any poll (either on DW) or elsewhere that gauge the usage of how popular installing software as snap or flakpack are versus installing builds targeting the distro's native package manager (like apt or yum) ?
10 • Bedrock (by Jesse on 2021-07-05 10:25:13 GMT from Canada)
@7: "In addition to not integrating to application menu, did packages from secondary distributions follow the theme of primary desktop?"
Yes, if I remember correctly regular packages (those pulled from repositories) did. But I don't think Flatpaks followed the host distro's theme.
@8: "If it was easy to find as a download I might even try the beta in VirtualBox
but I did not spot the .iso file or .img file in much too long an exploration
of its site reading introductory material but finding no image."
There is no ISO or IMG file for Bedrock. As I mentioned in the review, Bedrock is set up by running a script on an existing distribution. It's not an operating system which is installed. It's a meta-distro which uses a script to "take over" an existing distro.
@9: Yes, we ran a poll on that topic. https://distrowatch.com/polls.php?poll=116
11 • Flatpack, snap etc vs distro's package manager (by Tim on 2021-07-05 12:26:54 GMT from United States)
@far2fish, that is an excellent recommendation for a poll.
As for myself, one of my hosts runs Fedora 34. Fedora seems to be moving more decidedly toward Flatpak. I prefer traditional package management and shared libraries. I think they are going to force me to choose another distro.
12 • @11 Tim: (by dragonmouth on 2021-07-05 13:15:03 GMT from United States)
What is the difference, as far as you are concerned, between Flatpack and ,rpm's? Why prefer the latter to the former? They were both developed by Red Hat, with Flatpaks having a more universal usage.
13 • Bedrock... (by Cheker on 2021-07-05 13:26:45 GMT from Portugal)
...sounds like an interesting experiment. The way you describe it makes me think of containers, except that the different strats don't sound like they're isolated per se
14 • rocking on beds (by fonz on 2021-07-05 17:31:26 GMT from Indonesia)
@1 yep, shouldve had another option to try bedrock in the near future. the review was awesome, the 3rd paragraph starting on debian > something > AUR really hit me, itd be amazing to try out all the new possibilities. modding games has been my hobby for +10 years (nowadays my kids are my hobby :D), modding systems with bedrock might be my new itch to scratch. of course playing it safe in a VM before real usage. huge kudos to the review, it disproves 'you cant teach an old dog new tricks' like a few weeks ago with magic sysrq keys...
nutyx sounds like an awesome project. after reading the release 20 review on here, allowing init diversity (or fragmentation LOL) should be held. if nutyx can do it, why cant the big boys amirite? i havent tried it personally, but i have tried LFS and failed big time. hopefully bedrock might pick it up as a starting grounds, maybe...
15 • pledge/unveil (by John on 2021-07-05 21:43:10 GMT from Canada)
I did read in LWN about something called "Landlock". That seems similar to Pledge/Unveil, but as mentioned it will probably be hard to use that everywhere. This is the article from June 17:
https://lwn.net/Articles/859908/
16 • @12 regarding flatpack etc (by far2fish on 2021-07-05 21:51:27 GMT from Denmark)
I know you asked Tim, but I will reply too on the same question.
I have admittedly never tried flatpack. My main distro is Fedora. A few months back I installed Ubuntu on another laptop and tried some software installed through snap and then the same software from apt. I don’t recall all apps I tried, but Firefox and vs code was probably among them. For the apps I tried the startup time in snap was horrible compared to the same apps when I installed using apt on the same laptop. It was not a good experience. My selection of applications might not have been representative for snap in general, but it left me a bit baffled why performance was that bad. Laptop specs i5 cpu and 16gb ram, Ubuntu desktop default install.
17 • Won't use Bedrock (by penguinx86 on 2021-07-05 22:30:34 GMT from United States)
Bedrock is a nice idea, but seems too complicated and difficult to troubleshoot if something goes wrong. I'll stick with VirtualBox and virtual machines running on my primary OS Linux Mint Xfce. If something goes wrong with a virtual machine, I can simply delete it and reinstall it without affecting my main OS.
18 • Bedrock works (by Andy Prough on 2021-07-06 03:24:40 GMT from United States)
Thanks for the detailed instructions, Jesse. I installed Devuan, then installed the hijack script for Bedrock, then installed the Void strata on top of it with "brl fetch void". That whole process of installing everything from scratch took about 15 minutes.
Then I used "sudo xbps-install okular" and "sudo xbps-install galculator" to install okular and galculator with the void strata. Both installed quickly and worked great. Void's repo has the most recent version of okular, version 21.04.2, whereas Devuan packages the much older 17.12.2 version, so when I opened it and saw that it was the Void 21.04.2 version I thought that was very cool! I'm going to need to keep trying this out, it's really quite interesting. CPU and memory usage looks the same as with native Devuan packages, so this could be incredibly useful.
19 • Missing application menu entries (by Andre on 2021-07-06 05:04:29 GMT from Canada)
I don't use Bedrock Linux, but you might be able to get your desktop environment to find all of the applications you have installed, regardless of strata, by explicitly setting the XDG_DATA_DIRS environment variable. For example:
export XDG_DATA_DIRS=/bedrock/strata/arch/usr/share:/bedrock/strata/ubuntu/usr/share:/usr/share
I think most desktop environments support this env var nowadays; or, at least, the ones I've tried do.
20 • More about Bedrock (by Andy Prough on 2021-07-06 13:13:40 GMT from United States)
After experimenting with it a bit, I think the killer feature is the ability to have a regular Devuan Beowulf installation with all of its stable, older software as the base, and then using "brl fetch -n myceres -r ceres devuan" to add ceres (similar to Debian unstable Sid) as a strata. Then you can install any of the newer software from the unstable ceres repo as root with "strat myceres apt install [packagename]". This way you get the stable Devuan base and the newer, unstable programs you need co-existing very nicely together.
21 • Bedrock (by Ankleface Wroughlandmire on 2021-07-06 14:14:47 GMT from Ecuador)
Thanks for the review Jesse. I've been intrigued every time you review Bedrock. For me, the fact that it doesn't automatically integrate the .desktop files for programs added from the add-on distro is a major limitation, hopefully they'll address that at some point.
22 • I might try Bedrock (by mmphosis on 2021-07-06 17:22:35 GMT from Canada)
@17 I also like the idea of Bedrock. My method is not as simple as using a VM. I multi-boot from a grub menu of OSes (and ISOs) that I can install and delete. If I had a "primary" OS it would probably be Linux Mint. If too many things go wrong with an OS, I delete it.
23 • Maybe this spagetti would be better with ice cream on top, and a pickle (by Trihexagonal on 2021-07-07 09:32:42 GMT from United States)
In all seriousness, the Bedrock idea sounds like a disaster to me. In regard to Jesse's statement:
"Bedrock Linux seeks to reverse, or at least offer an alternative, to fragmentation."
Piling different distros that have gone their own way together and adding some "glue" like the Bedrock script to bring things back together does not seem the path to making Linux whole. It sounds like the above. To me.
Like you're hungry for something but you just don't know what you're hungry for, To coin commercial. Tried vanilla lately? As a PC-BSD user I switched to "vanilla" FreeBSD, and that's what we referred to it as.
Sixteen years and 31 flavors later, BaskenRobbinsOS is no more. Vanilla is still around and so am I.
Vanilla being the same thing as what @5 referred to:
"Traditional Linux" forced users to compile from source code; a tedious & highly skilled technique (including AUR).
It's not for everybody and neither is compiling 3rd party programs from source. It is time consuming, can be tedious when the build of one program conflicts with the another and a learned skill in problem solving that only comes from experience.
A skill I struggled with to learn and taught myself while a PC-BSD user of great value looking back on how little I knew about FreeBSD at the time. To have given up and stayed with what was supposed to be easier, failure worthy of seppuku.
I used Linux years before I started using FreeBSD and with 8 laptops find a place for one based on Debian that is running right beside me as I type on my FreeBSD 12.2 box. I'm perfectly comfortable with apt-get and SystemD is not the bugbear for me it is for some. I don't want to make it something it's not and if I didn't like it the way it was I wouldn't use it.
But you are not me and your preference does not have to be mine or make you wrong because it is not. I'd rather have vanilla Yoplait yogurt to be honest.
I liked the article about Porting OpenBSD security features to Linux. I haven't used OpenBSD in 2-3 years or heard of pledge and unveil. It was informative in the comparison of the different paradigm in security and a good work in writing overall.
You are a workhorse.
24 • @10 The Snap and Flatpak Poll quoted by Jesse... (by Ghost 67 on 2021-07-07 12:55:02 GMT from United Kingdom)
Jesse, the poll you quote is from way back in DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 727 (28 August 2017). I would argue that the results would be wildly different if the same poll was taken today. Is it possible that it can be re-run so we may gauge if the uptake of Snaps and Flatpaks has improved?
25 • Bedrock for Embedded Development (by Kyle on 2021-07-07 13:10:42 GMT from United States)
I don't think I would find Bedrock Linux very useful for my personal systems, but I wonder if it could be helpful in the context of developing embedded software? Some of the software I work on for my job is built on Linux host systems. Embedded software takes the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy to an extreme, so some of the tools haven't been updated in years, sometimes over a decade. This leaves my team in an awkward position where our development software only officially supports versions of Linux distributions that have long ago lost their own official support.
If we can find (or make) Bedrock strata for some of those old distributions, we might be able to install the bare minimum libraries and utilities to run our compilers on top of modern distributions. That could reduce or even eliminate our need for different virtual machines, in addition to simply gaining access to the features in the latest releases of IDEs and other such software available in the base OS. It looks like Bedrock has some extensive documentation on adding new distributions, so it might be feasible with a bit of effort.
26 • bedrock linux opinion poll (by george on 2021-07-09 01:25:24 GMT from United States)
Wish there had been an option for "Have not used, but will try soon".
Number of Comments: 26
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| • Issue 1155 (2026-01-12): MenuetOS, CDE on Sparky, iDeal OS 2025.12.07, recommended flavour of BSD, Debian seeks new Data Protection Team, Ubuntu 25.04 nears its end of life, Google limits Android source code releases, Fedora plans to replace SDDM, Budgie migrates to Wayland |
| • Issue 1154 (2026-01-05): postmarketOS 25.06/25.12, switching to Linux and educational resources, FreeBSD improving laptop support, Unix v4 available for download, new X11 server in development, CachyOS team plans server edtion |
| • Issue 1153 (2025-12-22): Best projects of 2025, is software ever truly finished?, Firefox to adopt AI components, Asahi works on improving the install experience, Mageia presents plans for version 10 |
| • Issue 1152 (2025-12-15): OpenBSD 7.8, filtering websites, Jolla working on a Linux phone, Germany saves money with Linux, Ubuntu to package AMD tools, Fedora demonstrates AI troubleshooting, Haiku packages Go language |
| • Issue 1151 (2025-12-08): FreeBSD 15.0, fun command line tricks, Canonical presents plans for Ubutnu 26.04, SparkyLinux updates CDE packages, Redox OS gets modesetting driver |
| • Issue 1150 (2025-12-01): Gnoppix 25_10, exploring if distributions matter, openSUSE updates tumbleweed's boot loader, Fedora plans better handling of broken packages, Plasma to become Wayland-only, FreeBSD publishes status report |
| • Issue 1149 (2025-11-24): MX Linux 25, why are video drivers special, systemd experiments with musl, Debian Libre Live publishes new media, Xubuntu reviews website hack |
| • Issue 1148 (2025-11-17): Zorin OS 18, deleting a file with an unusual name, NetBSD experiments with sandboxing, postmarketOS unifies its documentation, OpenBSD refines upgrades, Canonical offers 15 years of support for Ubuntu |
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| • Issue 1136 (2025-08-25): CalyxOS 6.8.20, distros for running containers, Arch Linux website under attack,illumos Cafe launched, CachyOS creates web dashboard for repositories |
| • Issue 1135 (2025-08-18): Debian 13, Proton, WINE, Wayland, and Wayback, Debian GNU/Hurd 2025, KDE gets advanced Liquid Glass, Haiku improves authentication tools |
| • Issue 1134 (2025-08-11): Rhino Linux 2025.3, thoughts on malware in the AUR, Fedora brings hammered websites back on-line, NetBSD reveals features for version 11, Ubuntu swaps some command line tools for 25.10, AlmaLinux improves NVIDIA support |
| • Issue 1133 (2025-08-04): Expirion Linux 6.0, running Plasma on Linux Mint, finding distros which support X11, Debian addresses 22 year old bug, FreeBSD discusses potential issues with pkgbase, CDE ported to OpenBSD, Btrfs corruption bug hitting Fedora users, more malware found in Arch User Repository |
| • Issue 1132 (2025-07-28): deepin 25, wars in the open source community, proposal to have Fedora enable Flathub repository, FreeBSD plans desktop install option, Wayback gets its first release |
| • Issue 1131 (2025-07-21): HeliumOS 10.0, settling on one distro, Mint plans new releases, Arch discovers malware in AUR, Plasma Bigscreen returns, Clear Linux discontinued |
| • Issue 1130 (2025-07-14): openSUSE MicroOS and RefreshOS, sharing aliases between computers, Bazzite makes Bazaar its default Flatpak store, Alpine plans Wayback release, Wayland and X11 benchmarked, Red Hat offers additional developer licenses, openSUSE seeks feedback from ARM users, Ubuntu 24.10 reaches the end of its life |
| • Issue 1129 (2025-07-07): GLF OS Omnislash, the worst Linux distro, Alpine introduces Wayback, Fedora drops plans to stop i686 support, AlmaLinux builds EPEL repository for older CPUs, Ubuntu dropping existing RISC-V device support, Rhino partners with UBports, PCLinuxOS recovering from website outage |
| • Issue 1128 (2025-06-30): AxOS 25.06, AlmaLinux OS 10.0, transferring Flaptak bundles to off-line computers, Ubuntu to boost Intel graphics performance, Fedora considers dropping i686 packages, SDesk switches from SELinux to AppArmor |
| • Issue 1127 (2025-06-23): LastOSLinux 2025-05-25, most unique Linux distro, Haiku stabilises, KDE publishes Plasma 6.4, Arch splits Plasma packages, Slackware infrastructure migrating |
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| • Issue 1125 (2025-06-09): RHEL 10, distributions likely to survive a decade, Murena partners with more hardware makers, GNOME tests its own distro on real hardware, Redox ports GTK and X11, Mint provides fingerprint authentication |
| • Issue 1124 (2025-06-02): Picking up a Pico, tips for protecting privacy, Rhino tests Plasma desktop, Arch installer supports snapshots, new features from UBports, Ubuntu tests monthly snapshots |
| • Issue 1123 (2025-05-26): CRUX 3.8, preventing a laptop from sleeping, FreeBSD improves laptop support, Fedora confirms GNOME X11 session being dropped, HardenedBSD introduces Rust in userland build, KDE developing a virtual machine manager |
| • Issue 1122 (2025-05-19): GoboLinux 017.01, RHEL 10.0 and Debian 12 updates, openSUSE retires YaST, running X11 apps on Wayland |
| • Issue 1121 (2025-05-12): Bluefin 41, custom file manager actions, openSUSE joins End of 10 while dropping Deepin desktop, Fedora offers tips for building atomic distros, Ubuntu considers replacing sudo with sudo-rs |
| • Issue 1120 (2025-05-05): CachyOS 250330, what it means when a distro breaks, Kali updates repository key, Trinity receives an update, UBports tests directory encryption, Gentoo faces losing key infrastructure |
| • Issue 1119 (2025-04-28): Ubuntu MATE 25.04, what is missing from Linux, CachyOS ships OCCT, Debian enters soft freeze, Fedora discusses removing X11 session from GNOME, Murena plans business services, NetBSD on a Wii |
| • Issue 1118 (2025-04-21): Fedora 42, strange characters in Vim, Nitrux introduces new package tools, Fedora extends reproducibility efforts, PINE64 updates multiple devices running Debian |
| • Issue 1117 (2025-04-14): Shebang 25.0, EndeavourOS 2025.03.19, running applications from other distros on the desktop, Debian gets APT upgrade, Mint introduces OEM options for LMDE, postmarketOS packages GNOME 48 and COSMIC, Redox testing USB support |
| • Issue 1116 (2025-04-07): The Sense HAT, Android and mobile operating systems, FreeBSD improves on laptops, openSUSE publishes many new updates, Fedora appoints new Project Leader, UBports testing VoLTE |
| • Issue 1115 (2025-03-31): GrapheneOS 2025, the rise of portable package formats, MidnightBSD and openSUSE experiment with new package management features, Plank dock reborn, key infrastructure projects lose funding, postmarketOS to focus on reliability |
| • Issue 1114 (2025-03-24): Bazzite 41, checking which processes are writing to disk, Rocky unveils new Hardened branch, GNOME 48 released, generating images for the Raspberry Pi |
| • Issue 1113 (2025-03-17): MocaccinoOS 1.8.1, how to contribute to open source, Murena extends on-line installer, Garuda tests COSMIC edition, Ubuntu to replace coreutils with Rust alternatives, Chimera Linux drops RISC-V builds |
| • Issue 1112 (2025-03-10): Solus 4.7, distros which work with Secure Boot, UBports publishes bug fix, postmarketOS considers a new name, Debian running on Android |
| • Issue 1111 (2025-03-03): Orbitiny 0.01, the effect of Ubuntu Core Desktop, Gentoo offers disk images, elementary OS invites feature ideas, FreeBSD starts PinePhone Pro port, Mint warns of upcoming Firefox issue |
| • Issue 1110 (2025-02-24): iodeOS 6.0, learning to program, Arch retiring old repositories, openSUSE makes progress on reproducible builds, Fedora is getting more serious about open hardware, Tails changes its install instructions to offer better privacy, Murena's de-Googled tablet goes on sale |
| • Issue 1109 (2025-02-17): Rhino Linux 2025.1, MX Linux 23.5 with Xfce 4.20, replacing X.Org tools with Wayland tools, GhostBSD moving its base to FreeBSD -RELEASE, Redox stabilizes its ABI, UBports testing 24.04, Asahi changing its leadership, OBS in dispute with Fedora |
| • Issue 1108 (2025-02-10): Serpent OS 0.24.6, Aurora, sharing swap between distros, Peppermint tries Void base, GTK removinglegacy technologies, Red Hat plans more AI tools for Fedora, TrueNAS merges its editions |
| • Issue 1107 (2025-02-03): siduction 2024.1.0, timing tasks, Lomiri ported to postmarketOS, Alpine joins Open Collective, a new desktop for Linux called Orbitiny |
| • Issue 1106 (2025-01-27): Adelie Linux 1.0 Beta 6, Pop!_OS 24.04 Alpha 5, detecting whether a process is inside a virtual machine, drawing graphics to NetBSD terminal, Nix ported to FreeBSD, GhostBSD hosting desktop conference |
| • Issue 1105 (2025-01-20): CentOS 10 Stream, old Flatpak bundles in software centres, Haiku ports Iceweasel, Oracle shows off debugging tools, rsync vulnerability patched |
| • Issue 1104 (2025-01-13): DAT Linux 2.0, Silly things to do with a minimal computer, Budgie prepares Wayland only releases, SteamOS coming to third-party devices, Murena upgrades its base |
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VyOS
VyOS is a community fork of Vyatta, a Linux distribution discontinued in 2013. It is a network operating system that provides software-based network routing, firewall and VPN functionality. VyOS is based on Debian; its features include the ability to run on both physical and virtual platforms, and support for para-virtual drivers and integration packages for virtual platforms. VyOS was completely free to download and use until the release of version 1.2.0 in January 2019 when the project turned commercial, providing the operating system with various levels of support subscriptions. Daily "rolling" images are still available for free download though.
Status: Active
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