DistroWatch Weekly |
DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 908, 15 March 2021 |
Welcome to this year's 11th issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
Technology steadily moves forward and software leaps forward faster than most. Sometimes the march of progress leaves older utilities and programs behind, but other times entrenched software sticks around for a surpringingly long time. We talk about older packet filters hanging around after they have been replaced in our Questions and Answers column. Which packet filter do you use on your home computer to manage your firewall? Let us know in this week's Opinion Poll. Before talking about firewalls, we begin this week with a look at Solus, a rolling release desktop distribution. Solus is an independent Linux distribution that can run a number of desktop environments, including its very own Budgie desktop. Read on to find out how the latest version of Solus performs. Solus is not the only distribution making progress, other open source projects are moving forward with their own developments. In our News section we discuss Canonical adopting Flutter for future desktop application development while the Void team warns about performance issues with newer kernels. Meanwhile developers are successfully testing Rust-based core utilities on Debian and the Haiku project is polishing its desktop applications. We wrap up this week's edition with a list of last week's releases along with the torrents we are seeding. We wish you all a wonderful week and happy reading!
Content:
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (14MB) and MP3 (11MB) formats.
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Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
Solus 4.2
Solus is an independently developed, rolling release distribution. The project uses the eopkg package manager, which has its roots in the PiSi package manager. The distribution is available in four editions, one of which runs the Budgie desktop which was created by the Solus team. The other three flavours feature the GNOME, KDE Plasma, and MATE desktops. These four editions all run on 64-bit (x86_64) machines and range from 1.7GB to 2.0GB in size.
I decided to focus on the Budgie edition as it seems to be the flagship of the distribution's efforts. The new Solus 4.2 release included some key changes. For instance, the release notes mention the system tray for Budgie has been completely rewritten. We are also told the volume control now has a mute button. One big change is the way in which desktop icons are handled. The release announcement mentions past versions of Solus relied on an older version of the Nautilus file manager to handle desktop icons, but desktop icons are now handled by Budgie rather than relying on a third-party solution.
Live media
Booting from the Solus media brings us directly to the Budgie desktop and the system plays a short audio clip to indicate it is ready to be used. A panel sits at the bottom of the display. The application menu sits to the left of the panel. A small collection of quick-launch buttons are placed just to the right of the menu. A system tray and logout button are located on the right side of the panel. On the desktop we find icons for opening the GNOME Files file manager and launching the system installer. The application menu uses a two-pane approach with categories on the left we can click on to explore and specific application launchers shown on the right. There is a search bar built into the menu to help us locate specific programs.
The Budgie desktop defaults to using a dark theme. Most panels and menus are black with white text. Highlighted items and folder icons are displayed in blue. The background is soft blue. All of this made Solus visually appealing to me right from the start.
Installing
Solus uses a graphical system installer which looks to be unique to this distribution. There is a list of steps the installer will take shown down the left side of the window and we can use this to track our progress. The rest of the window guides us through configuration steps.
We begin by picking our language from a list. The installer then offers to find our location in order to automatically guess some other key bits of information. We are then asked to confirm our keyboard layout and time zone. I found that when I accepted the location check my time zone was guessed correctly, but the keyboard layout was not. However, if I denied the location check the keyboard layout was correct while the time zone was not filled in.
We are next offered the options of guided or manual partitioning and it looks as though the guided option will take over the entire hard drive. The manual partitioning screen can only format existing partitions and assign them mount points. If a suitable partition is not available we need to exit the installer, arrange partitions using a tool such as GParted (which is included on the live media), and then re-launch the installer. The installer itself does not include manual partitioning options. This process works, though I found GParted appeared to lock up for a minute or two while it was applying its changes to the disk.
Assigning mount points in the Solus installer is not a clear process. We need to click on a partition, in a specific field, to assign a mount point. This is not explained for us and it is not clear that one part (though not another) of the partition entry is interactive.
Solus 4.2 -- Assigning mount points in the installer
(full image size: 528kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
After this screen we move on to making up a hostname for the computer and optionally installing a boot loader. Then we advance to creating a user account for ourselves. The installer can make multiple user accounts, the first of which is granted administrator access. Packages are then copied to the hard drive and, when it is finished, the installer offers to restart the computer.
Early impressions
My new copy of Solus booted quickly. The distribution brings up a graphical login page. Text is displayed in white on a light background which makes it difficult to read. I found when multiple user accounts existed they are all listed on the login screen. My account was always highlighted by default, but I could not select it. To sign in I had to select another user account then move back to mine before it would let me put in my password. I reboot rarely, but this was a speed bump every time I started the computer.
Signing in brought me back to the Budgie desktop. The file manager icons are still on the desktop, though the launcher for the installer is, naturally, gone. Shortly after signing into Budgie a notification appeared letting me know package updates were available. This pop-up includes a link we can click to open the software centre and display available updates.
Solus 4.2 -- Exploring the application menu while running Firefox
(full image size: 671kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
Software management
When I opened the software centre from the update notification the software manager showed me 11 available updates, 281MB in size. At first, trying to install these updates brought up a password prompt box. I was unable to click on the box, enter my password, or click the visible Cancel button. At this point I could not interact with the software centre's window either. I eventually closed the software centre and re-launched it. Then tried to apply the waiting updates again. This time the password prompt was responsive and the new packages were downloaded successfully.
The software centre has six tabs down the left side of the window. These are: Home which shows software categories we can browse; Updates, a page that just shows a list of available new packages we can install; Installed, a list of installed packages we can remove; Third-Party, non-free software from unofficial repositories such as Android Studio, Slack, and Skype; Search which helps us find software by name; and Settings where we can adjust the frequency of checks for updates and other options like whether we want to download screenshots when viewing information about applications.
Solus 4.2 -- Browsing the software centre
(full image size: 375kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
Searching for software worked well and browsing categories went smoothly. The software centre's interface was fairly responsive. New packages can be queued for installation with a single click. There were problems I kept running into though. Typically these issues came up when trying to install new applications, either from the official repositories or from the third-party collection. Often times when I tried to install a new package I would be prompted for my password, but the password box would not let me click on it or type my password. Closing the software centre and then relaunching it usually cleared the issue and the next time around the password box would work.
When I tried to install Spotify I ran into two errors. The first was the inactive password prompt and the second was an error indicating the desired package could not be fetched. This was followed by the software centre locking up and I had to kill its process. I also tried multiple times to install Slack, Falkon and VLC. The Slack process gave me the most trouble. Again the initial password prompt failed. After terminating the software centre and re-launching it, I tried again. This time I was not prompted for a password at all, the software centre just indicated Slack was being downloaded. This proceeded for a minute and then the software centre locked up and its process had to be killed from the command line because the window's close button did not respond.
I started keeping track after a while and found 75% of the time I tried to install software or updates, the software centre failed, unusually resulting in the interface locking up and requiring a trip to the command line to kill its process.
Should we wish to explore other forms of package management, Solus ships with both Snap and Flatpak frameworks. This gives us access to a wide range of portable packages. There are no Flatpak repositories enabled by default, but the default Snap repository from Canonical is available.
Hardware
I began testing Solus in a VirtualBox environment. Budgie performed fairly well, but was occasionally sluggish. I also found that Budgie's window manager process tended to spike in CPU usage occasionally, even when the desktop was calm. The desktop automatically resized dynamically to fit the VirtualBox window which was pleasantly convenient.
When I switched over to running Solus on my workstation the distribution ran quickly. I no longer ran into any sluggish behaviour (Budgie offered good responsiveness) and I no longer encountered CPU spikes, which I suspect were caused by software rendering when hardware capabilities were not directly available.
Solus worked well with my hardware and I found both the desktop and underlying operating system were pleasantly stable. Solus consumed 575MB of memory to log into Budgie, which is about average for mainstream Linux distributions. Its disk usage was also typical, about 6.1GB were required for the root partition.
Applications
Solus ships with a relatively conservative collection of applications. Looking through the application menu we can find Firefox, Thunderbird, and LibreOffice. There is a Calendar application, the HexChat IRC client, and an image viewer. The Rhythmbox audio player and GNOME MPV media player are included along with codecs to play popular media formats.
Solus 4.2 -- The desktop calendar and GNOME Files applications
(full image size: 74kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
There are also a large number of configuration tools for tweaking the desktop, power settings, setting up user accounts, and on-line services. These configuration modules are available both through the application menu and the desktop's settings panel. The Budgie settings panel appears to be GNOME's settings panel and, at a casual glance, there do not appear to be any Budgie-specific modifications or features.
The Solus Budgie edition uses the GNOME Files file manager, the systemd init software, and ships with version 5.10 of the Linux kernel. These, along with a few small tools, such as a system monitor and text editor, mean that the application menu remains uncluttered while basic desktop functionality is provided.
I went looking for a way to adjust where some launchers appear in the application menu. I also hoped to find a way to disable the need to click on a software category in order to see the launchers in that part of the menu. However, I was unable to find a way to customize the Budgie menu. I could, on the other hand, pin open applications to the quick-launch bar which made accessing commonly used programs faster.
Solus 4.2 -- The settings panel
(full image size: 425kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
One feature which performed inconsistently was the screenshot application. Sometimes if I pressed the Print Screen button on my keyboard I would hear the satisfying "shutter" sound and a new screenshot would appear in my Pictures directory. However, sometimes a "boop" error sound would be played and no image would be saved to the Pictures directory. Still other times no sound would play at all and no snapshot would be taken. I did not find any pattern as to when the shortcut key would work and when it did not. Launching the screenshot utility from the application menu and taking snapshots through the utility always worked.
Conclusions
In a lot of ways running Solus felt, to me, to be similar to running Artix Linux just before I started this review. The two projects have a number of things in common. They are both rolling releases, both use dark themes, both ship with a fairly small collection of software we can build on. I feel as though Artix places more focus on being lightweight with better performance while Solus places more emphasis on looking pretty and having features like a modern-looking notification area.
Solus 4.2 -- The applets and notifications panel
(full image size: 718kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
The Budgie desktop, which I usually don't use apart from when I am reviewing Solus, mostly worked well. I like its layout and style more than GNOME, but also appreciate that it imports a number of useful tools from the GNOME family (like the settings panel) which lend more functionality and polish to the Budgie experience.
Like Artix, Solus finds a good balance between offering just enough applications to get started without overly cluttering the application menu. There is enough functionality to get people started browsing the web, writing letters, and importing appointments into their calendar, without needing to wade through a massive collection of software.
On the whole, Solus performed fairly well for me and gave me the tools I wanted. The system was stable and, while not super fast, worked smoothly enough. There are two areas where I feel Solus could be improved. Performing manual partitioning could be a nicer experience. Even if the installer just had a button to launch GParted and restart the installer this would save the user from finding and launching GParted manually and then opening the installer again. After that, assigning mount points does not feel clear. I think an obvious drop-down menu or button would be better than making the user click along a highlighted bar looking for the spot that reacts. These are minor issues, but the installer is a big part of a person's first impressions.
The other area I felt needed improvement was the software centre. I had terrible luck with managing software. Downloads sometimes failed, the password prompt worked less than half the time, sometimes the centre would simply lock up mid-action and need to be closed. The layout and organization of the software centre is great, but a successful transaction rate of 25% is devastating to the user experience.
On the other hand, I do applaud the Solus team for trying to provide portable packages, such as Flatpak and Snap, along with popular third-party applications many users will want. New Linux users are often interested in running Spotify, Slack, and Skype so it's nice to see these readily available.
On the whole I think Solus is doing well. There are some key areas that can be polished, particularly software management and desktop performance, though otherwise the distribution offers a solid, useful, and attractive experience.
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Hardware used in this review
My physical test equipment for this review was a desktop HP Pavilon p6 Series with the following specifications:
- Processor: Dual-core 2.8GHz AMD A4-3420 APU
- Storage: 500GB Hitachi hard drive
- Memory: 6GB of RAM
- Networking: Realtek RTL8111 wired network card, Ralink RT5390R PCIe Wireless card
- Display: AMD Radeon HD 6410D video card
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Visitor supplied rating
Solus has a visitor supplied average rating of: 7.6/10 from 196 review(s).
Have you used Solus? You can leave your own review of the project on our ratings page.
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Miscellaneous News (by Ladislav Bodnar) |
Haiku polishes applications, Ubuntu to get Flutter applications, Rust coreutils running on Debian, Void warns about performance hits on newer kernels with default settings
The Haiku team have been hard at work, improving their operating system. The project's latest activity report mentions driver improvements, ongoing work to get Haiku running on ARM processors, and improvements to existing applications. "kerwizzy added a fullscreen mode and an option to save pictures to Mandelbrot. Jaidyn Ann fixed the DNS settings in Network preferences to disable some buttons when they would do nothing. mt fixed memory leaks in MediaPlayer and ProcessController, as well as other problems found by the clang static analyzer in various places in the kernel, the FreeBSD driver compatibility layer, and the filepanel command line tool. nephele switched the default search engine in WebPositive from Google to DuckDuckGo." The report also mentions improvements coming to Haiku running on EFI-enabled computers.
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The 9to5Linux site is reporting that Canonical, the company behind Ubuntu, is shifting its development efforts to use Google's Flutter toolkit to create desktop applications. "Now, the company behind Ubuntu is writing another page of history by targeting Flutter as the default UI (user interface) framework for building their own Ubuntu apps, which will work across a wide-range of hardware and configurations. Canonical already announced last month that they are re-writing their Ubuntu Installer for future Ubuntu releases in Flutter. This will allow Canonical to provide a consistent installer experience across the entire Ubuntu product portfolio." Further information on Canonical adopting Flutter can be found in the 9to5Linux article.
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The coreutils package contains a collection of basic commands which handle navigating directories, moving, removing, and copying files. These core programs make up the basis of most UNIX-like operating systems, including Linux distributions. There are different implementations of the coreutils package with one of the most popular being the GNU implementation which is written in C. Recently an effort has been made to reimplement the coreutils package in the Rust language which offers some memory protection benefits. The Rust coreutils package now runs on Debian. "Rust/coreutils is now available in Debian, good enough to boot a Debian with GNOME, install the top 1,000 packages, build Firefox, the Linux Kernel and LLVM/Clang. Even if I wrote more than 100 patches to achieve that, it will probably be a bumpy ride for many other use cases. It is also a terrific project to learn Rust." Additional information on the coreutils package written in Rust and how it works on Debian can be found in this blog post.
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In February the Void team reported they would be switching from the LibreSSL cryptography library to OpenSSL, which is more commonly used among Linux distributions. Following this news, the Void project undertook a massive rebuild of packages which rely on OpenSSL and also made some adjustments to kernel hardening. The new kernel changes can cause older computers to run more slowly and suffer from longer boot times. "As a consequence of these changes, Void's default kernel command-line now omits the slub_debug and page_poison options. There is a chance that your existing system still has the old options enabled. They still work in newer kernels, but have a performance impact more in line with init_on_free=1. On older hardware this can be quite noticeable. If you are running a kernel series older than 5.4, you can keep them (or add them) for extra security at the cost of performance; otherwise, you should remove them." Details on both changes can be found in the Void project's news post.
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Packet filters and legacy technology
Cleaning-out-the-cruft asks: According to Wikipedia, iptables
superseded ipchains; and the successor of iptables is nftables.
However, on CentOS we still find iptables 1.4.21 in
CentOS 7.8 and iptables 1.8.2 in CentOS 8.2. So why is iptables
still around in modern distribution releases?
DistroWatch answers: I have a few answers to this question. First, when talking specifically about CentOS 7.8, the reason iptables is still in use there is nftables requires version 3.13 of the Linux kernel. The CentOS 7.x series ships with Linux 3.10. This means nftables will not run on CentOS 7.8 and iptables would be the most modern tool in the packet filter series available.
But why does CentOS 8.x, which uses version 4.18 of the kernel, still include iptables? The main reason is probably that iptables still works perfectly well and has been around for two decades. Virtually every Linux system administrator who has been in the work force at some point since the year 2000 will be familiar with iptables, but nftables has only been around for about six years (or one major version of CentOS/RHEL).
This means there is a cost associated with upgrading and adopting the new technology. Administrators need to receive new training, old scripts and programs that used iptables would need to be updated to use the new nftables syntax, which is entirely different from the iptables syntax. Any organizations running multiple versions of enterprise-level distributions (such as CentOS and Debian) would need to write different tools and scripts to handle firewall rules on CentOS 7 and CentOS 8 if they wanted to use nftables whenever possible. That is a nightmare for administrators and a lot of duplication of work.
Basically, adopting nftables (especially in enterprise environments) will be a non-trivial amount of work and may require implementing multiple tools to do the work, along with re-training people. There is a cost involved in upgrading. On the other hand, what benefit does nftables provide over iptables? For most people there is almost no benefit to switching to nftables. Looking over the list of features nftables provides we can see some behind-the-scenes perks and philosophy changes, but from a practical point of view, administrators and end-users are almost never better off using nftables over iptables.
What it comes down to is there is little incentive to upgrade, but a notable cost to adopting nftables, at least in bigger organizations. On the other side of things, what is the benefit or cost to keeping iptables around and shipping it with systems which can also run nftables? The benefit to keeping iptables around is that people can migrate at their own pace, legacy tools work, and mixed-version environments continue to work smoothly. The cost to keeping iptables is a few kilobytes of storage space to keep the package on the hard drive, something almost nobody will notice.
In short, switching to nftables is (relatively) expensive with minimal benefit while keeping iptables available on the operating system costs almost nothing while providing several benefits, including a smoother transition to nftables in the future and it avoids breaking existing scripts.
The same argument applies in a lot of cases where one new, incompatible tool tries to replace an old one with an established ecosystem. The Python project is probably the best example of this. Python 2 became entrenched and, since Python 3 was not backward compatible and did not provide much benefit over Python 2, developers were very reluctant to switch. Many distributions kept both versions of Python in their repositories and supported both versions for over a decade (approximately 2008 to 2020) because developers saw few reasons to upgrade, but plenty of reasons to ignore the newer version. Upgrading even trivial Python projects to the new version of the language was more effort than was usually justifiable and this kept Python 2 around for five years after it was originally going to be discontinued.
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Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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Released Last Week |
Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 2,361
- Total data uploaded: 36.7TB
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Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
Summary of expected upcoming releases
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Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) |
Which packet filter do you use?
In our Questions and Answers column we talked about different approaches to setting up a network firewall. There are a number of tools on Linux distributions and the BSD flavours which can be used to filter network packets. On the Linux side the underlying filters are ipchains, iptables, and nftables. In the BSD communities there are a few different packet filters, including pf, ipfw, and ipf. Which of these do you use on your system?
You can see the results of our previous poll on writing custom shell scripts in last week's edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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Packet filters
I use ipchains: | 7 (1%) |
I use iptables: | 367 (34%) |
I use nftables: | 61 (6%) |
I use pf: | 70 (6%) |
I use ipfw: | 28 (3%) |
I use ipf: | 1 (0%) |
I use another open source firewall: | 104 (10%) |
I do not use Linux or BSD: | 16 (1%) |
I do not use a firewall: | 355 (33%) |
Other: | 69 (6%) |
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Website News |
New distributions added to database
Venom Linux
Venom Linux is an independently-developed, rolling-release distribution inspired by CRUX. It targets experienced Linux users. Venom uses runit as the main init system and BSD-like ports as software packages which are managed by a custom package management tool called scratchpkg (written in compliance with POSIX standards). The distribution offers a simple graphical desktop built around the Openbox window manager and a text-mode system installer.
Venom Linux -- Running the Openbox window manager
(full image size: 3.9MB, resolution: 2560x1600 pixels)
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DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 22 March 2021. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Article Search page. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
- Bruce Patterson (podcast)
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Tip Jar |
If you've enjoyed this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly, please consider sending us a tip. (Tips this week: 1, value: US$19.16) |
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Extended Lifecycle Support by TuxCare |
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Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • firewall (by DaveW on 2021-03-15 00:04:28 GMT from United States)
My daily driver is Linux Mint, where the default firewall is gufw, but I have never implemented it.
2 • iptables (by MikeOh Shark on 2021-03-15 00:12:52 GMT from Netherlands)
I use iptables partly because everytime I needed help, 99 per cent of the replies were examples with iptables. I looked into nftables and tried their conversion script but last I checked they did not have a suitable equivalent to ipsets. I have several ipsets and nftables is not nearly as clean as iptables for my uses.
Jesse nailed this one (as always). There is no compelling use case for most of us.
3 • Pf (by ThatChris on 2021-03-15 00:25:04 GMT from United States)
I used OpenBSD and pf.
4 • ufw and shorewall (by Anonymous on 2021-03-15 00:32:30 GMT from United States)
In the poll you didn't mention ufw/gufw, it's installed by default on Ubuntu. Now (g)ufw is a frontend to iptables. So maybe users of (g)ufw should select 'iptables' instead of 'other' :)
Also didn't see shorewall on the poll, it's PCLinuxOS's default firewall in their control center. Now if anyone runs shorewall I'm curious of your experience, what pros/cons does it have compared to other firewalls?
5 • Solus, GUI "Software Centers", and CLI's (by brad on 2021-03-15 00:50:55 GMT from United States)
Question - does Solus offer a CLI for software updating?
The reason I ask this question, is because (for me only?) I find GUI "Software Centers" on many distributions to be slow, buggy, and unreliable, whereas the CLI for these distributions work quickly, accurately, and without incident.
How do others feel?
6 • Solus (by anon on 2021-03-15 01:08:28 GMT from United States)
@5; I think that you can just "eopkg install" software from the command line. I haven't use Solus since 2016, so I could be wrong. I agree with you on using the CLI, though. Quick, reliable, and straight to the point with no fancy bells and whistles, and no unnecessary bugs or crashes.
7 • @6 - eopkg (by brad on 2021-03-15 01:48:20 GMT from United States)
Just checked - when you go to the "Help Center" in the Solus website, eopkg is the first option mentioned.
I still have trouble understanding why folks don't use the CLI more often.
8 • Solus and software management (by eco2geek on 2021-03-15 01:50:07 GMT from United States)
@5 - Yes, Solus has CLI tools for software management. If you look around on the Solus website, it's pretty easy to find out all about Solus' CLI package management tools. (Hint: look in the Help Center.) If you look around on Distrowatch, it's pretty easy to find a brief synopsis of Solus' (and many other distros') CLI package management tools, too. (Hint: Look in the Packages menu.)
I like Debian and Debian-based distros, so I don't have any experience with Solus. I started using Debian when Synaptic was the only graphical software manager available (it lacks a lot of the flash of software "stores" but offers more functionality), and a lot of people recommended using the command line, so that's what I still do - use a combination of Synaptic and the command line.
I'm sure Ubuntu's software store is fine, so is Mint's, and the ones developed by desktop environments (e.g. Plasma Discover, Gnome Software) are fine too, but I just never got into the habit of using them.
9 • shorewall (by Cranky on 2021-03-15 04:11:54 GMT from United States)
I think shorewall is available on most linux systems. My impression is its a really solid firewall. Although I have used it occasionally, I don't use it full time.
shorewall, I believe, is a front end to iptables. It has its own syntax, so you don't have to learn iptables to get a secure firewall by default. So its sort of a step away from iptables.
When I set up my firewall, I had the choice of learning shorewall (or several other front ends), or learning iptables directly. Since I had some learning to do either way, I chose the latter. Its "closer" to linux, if you will, and if I ever install a distro which does not have shorewall in the repos, I still have a firewall. Kinda like that thing where its good to learn emacs, but if you ever walk up to a system that doesn't have it, you better know vi.
10 • firewall (by nsp0323 on 2021-03-15 05:18:16 GMT from Sweden)
I use NetBSD and npf, so I voted other.
11 • FirewallD (by Microlinux on 2021-03-15 05:23:19 GMT from France)
I'm using FirewallD, which is the default on Oracle Linux. I voted other, but I was surprised not to find it in the list, since it's the default firewall system in RHEL and all its derivatives.
12 • Firewall (by kc1di on 2021-03-15 08:04:16 GMT from United States)
I use GUFW - surprised it was not in the list so voted other.
13 • @5 - Solus, updating by CLI (by Hoos on 2021-03-15 08:06:10 GMT from Singapore)
I have been clearing package caches and installing upgrades in Solus using eopkg for years:
sudo eopkg dc sudo eopkg up
I use the Software Centre only for one-off installs/removal of specific packages.
For third party apps, I start first with this page: https://getsol.us/articles/software/third-party/en/
which again provides CLI instructions.
I seem to remember that the 3rd party software portion of their Software Centre may not be working well.
14 • SoftwareCenter (by lupus on 2021-03-15 09:16:43 GMT from Germany)
The only "Software Centre" I completely trust is Synaptic. It never let me down, never locked up, reliably sailed the seas of dependency hell and is rock solid. Even Ubuntus and Mints Centers didn't work that reliably. As an on and off Arch user I must say the AUR is another beast entirely. I can see why people like the AUR, it's great. For the time coming I'm not to much into bleeding myself but when I decide to hop again I think it will be Arch again! ;)
15 • cli package manager (by Tim on 2021-03-15 10:15:26 GMT from United States)
@5 This is exactly how I think. Apt, dnf, even pacman, the syntax is pretty simple. I can’t think of a reason to use a software store, even on Mint or Ubuntu. A big ally in the apt world is the Debian package archive. Once you know the software you want a quick google search “ debian package” will give you a hit from that archive and now you know what to tell apt to install on any Debian derivative
16 • Firewall poll options (by Jesse on 2021-03-15 11:18:02 GMT from Canada)
A few people have asked why some firewall tools like ufw or firewalld aren't mentioned in the opinion poll on packet filters. This is because those aren't firewalls, they're just graphical front-ends to the tools mentioned in the poll.
It would be like if we ran a poll asking if your distro uses rpm, deb, or pacman and had people asking why we didn't include DNF, APT, or Pamac. The latter options are just graphical tools for managing the former.
17 • iptables/nftables and the “reinventing the wheel” mania (by Daniel on 2021-03-15 11:57:04 GMT from Brazil)
@2 your case brings a perfect scenario on why some things in the free/open source community undermines the outreach of distros.
Users suddenly face new but feature incomplete/buggy versions of other equivalent (old but reliable) software: nftables, wayland, systemd, and others have been sent to the wilds with such a number of bugs and without implementing many basic features, just to replace software that simply worked. Just because someone had a brilliant idea like “let’s retire old software instead of solving current bugs or implementing new features on working stuff”.
Mostly developers and die hard fans *may* be patient enough to keep dealing with this craze. Dedoimedo has many articles about this “reinventing the wheel” that should become a new manifesto for the community.
Those who still haven’t taken a look, do yourselves a favor and read his last article on wayland (“Let's talk about Wayland ... “) and related texts of his.
18 • @5 brad: (by dragonmouth on 2021-03-15 13:27:50 GMT from United States)
"I find GUI "Software Centers" on many distributions to be slow, buggy, and unreliable, whereas the CLI for these distributions work quickly, accurately, and without incident." It all depends what you are used to. For over 10 years I have been running Debian-based distros and Synaptic. In all that time Synaptic never had a burp or a hiccup. I find CLI package managers to be esoteric, byzantine and unintuitive. I suppose that if for those 10 years I had been using CLI exclusively, by now I'd be as comfortable and sanguine about it as you are. Even rocket science or neurosurgery are "simple" if you learned them. :-)
I do agree with you on the various "Software Centers". While presenting a pretty "modern" interface, they are slow, buggy and unreliable, while lacking the overall convenience of Synaptic.
19 • @5 brad: (by dragonmouth on 2021-03-15 13:27:50 GMT from United States)
"I find GUI "Software Centers" on many distributions to be slow, buggy, and unreliable, whereas the CLI for these distributions work quickly, accurately, and without incident." It all depends what you are used to. For over 10 years I have been running Debian-based distros and Synaptic. In all that time Synaptic never had a burp or a hiccup. I find CLI package managers to be esoteric, byzantine and unintuitive. I suppose that if for those 10 years I had been using CLI exclusively, by now I'd be as comfortable and sanguine about it as you are. Even rocket science or neurosurgery are "simple" if you learned them. :-)
I do agree with you on the various "Software Centers". While presenting a pretty "modern" interface, they are slow, buggy and unreliable, while lacking the overall convenience of Synaptic.
20 • Solus (by Ankleface Wroughlandmire on 2021-03-15 15:00:39 GMT from Ecuador)
Budgie actually has two settings/control centres: the one from Gnome that Jesse found, and another more limited one for settings specific to the Budgie desktop and its panels and applets.
Regarding Solus in general, I like a lot of things that they are doing on a technical level. But unfortunately one of their lead developers tends to be rude and passive-aggressive, which totally turns me off and ruins the experience. I just don't like dealing with people like that, especially if I need support for something as important as an issue with my operating system. If Solus were the only Linux distro available I would bite the bullet and use it, but fortunately there are other options.
21 • firewall (by Carson on 2021-03-15 15:28:34 GMT from Canada)
I have no idea what firewall I use. I use a mix of ubuntu and elementary, so I use whatever firewall they use if they even do.
22 • firewalls are only part of the solution (by nanome on 2021-03-15 17:44:02 GMT from United Kingdom)
I have used a firewall consisting of iptables rules [simple script] for over 25 years. The firewall built into many broadband routers is better than nothing. Alternatively, [g]ufw that comes with most distros is OK. The reason that I use a custom iptables firewall is that I want to limit unsolicited outgoing and incoming network traffic. Outgoing traffic is seldom restricted by a router or [g]ufw etc.
The most dangerous route into a computer is by the web browser running javascript. If a web site gets hacked, there is little way to protect against any rogue scripts that get inserted into web pages [other than browser extensions like UBlockOrigin, Noscript etc]. Modern web browsers should prevent this happening, but I am not sure they are very successful.
Running the web browser in a container or jail [eg Bubblewrap [bwrap], Firejail] can limit the damage rogue web sites can do.
Unfortunately, malware such as Spectre and Meltdown require measures implemented by the Linux kernel: a good reason to install security updates, even if you want your distro to have long-term stability [if it works, leave alone].
23 • Software centers (by Cheker on 2021-03-15 17:46:08 GMT from Portugal)
My experience with software centers in Linux has never been good, they're always either slow or flat out don't do anything. I usually stick to the CLI, and the farthest I go graphically is Synaptic or Octopi.
24 • CLI (by Tad G on 2021-03-15 18:15:44 GMT from Canada)
I think that the reason why I stuck with Debian derivatives for years was because no bright spark out there thought that maybe, just maybe, it would make sense to have a standard syntax for cli package installers. I only needed to remember apt stuff. How many different ways do you need to say Install this, refresh the database, remove that, search for something else, patch my system? "Yes", apparently....
25 • firewalls (by Mike C on 2021-03-15 20:14:52 GMT from United States)
The Uncomplicated Firewall (ufw) is a front end for iptables. gufw is the graphical front end for ufw. Therefore, I use iptables.
26 • gufw and distros (by smiler on 2021-03-15 21:15:51 GMT from New Zealand)
I enabled the firewall in Mint, gufw. Therefore after reading which option it actually is under the hood, I voted for iptables. So simple - click and forget. Warpinator asked to add entries which it did by itself - smooth. Also my browser, firefox, has noScript and uBlock in place. The internet has really become a hostile environment. Solus - great review. I ran it for a bit some years back, before Budgie became an official DE choice in Ubuntu. I still test new releases of it as its cute and well constructed, but darn slow on updates as they have their lone repo - unlike the bigger players that mirror around the planet. Ubuntu - here we go again with dubious choices. This time they're playing into Google's hands with the toolset. Methinks Mint may want to dust off that Debian direct plan again and make LMDE slicker as it always feels way behind the main distro.
27 • Firewall front-end software (by David Carter on 2021-03-16 00:45:56 GMT from United States)
FirewallD is front-end for other low-level software -- it can be a front-end for iptables or for nftables. Ditto ufw. gufw is a front-end for ufw., etc. Maybe the poll should have been about front-ends for firewall software...
28 • firewall used on EL8? (by Scott Dowdle on 2021-03-16 07:00:26 GMT from United States)
Here's some documentation for managing the firewall on RHEL 8: https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/8/html/securing_networks/using-and-configuring-firewalld_securing-networks
Please note that Red Hat has provided firewalld as a front-end for firewall management starting with RHEL7. firewalld acts as an abstraction layer on top of iptables and nftables... so they can easy change what is used underneath without the firewall-cmd interface having to change.
The documentation mentioned above make it clear that nftables is the preferred tool and that if you do want to use iptables, it actually uses an nf_tables kernel api instead of the legacy back end.
In summary, RHEL8 does use nftables... so the question was in error and the answer about it being so hard to switch in enterprise environments without little benefit really doesn't come into play. If you use the firewalld frontend, it really hasn't changed much even though the backend has changed between RHEL7 and RHEL8
29 • Solus (by mechanic on 2021-03-16 11:59:05 GMT from United Kingdom)
But what's the point? Is it better with guest-utilities? Can we print from a virtual Solus machine? Does it cater for people with visual disability (as well as Windows does)?
30 • Shorewall - FirewallD (by Moxero - Mageia on 2021-03-16 12:36:12 GMT from Germany)
I use Mageia Linux primarily both at home and work. I have also several servers built upon Mageia.
By default Mageia comes with Shorewall, which I find pretty good, even though IPv4 is basically supported by Mageia tools, one can easily manage to configure Shorewall6.
I personally tend to switch to FirewallD, which is also available in Mageia. I find FirewallD more intuitive and less complicated.
Now I am trying to use nftables, but as mentioned by others, still there are some issues especially with direct rules and libvirt. This is my personal experience.
31 • Use a real firewall (by Robert McConnell on 2021-03-16 13:29:03 GMT from United States)
Rather than using packet filters, which I don't believe is realistic, I have a real firewall between my home network and the cable modem. Basically a used dual-port PC running OPNsense, it creates a more effective barrier between the two dozen or so devices we have, and the rest of the world. That collection includes three NAS boxes, a Playstation, a Wii, three printers and several tablets, none of which are capable of running any sort of effective firewall. Just the thought of having to maintain filter rules on all of my servers and workstations gives me nightmares.
32 • Terminology matters (by mikef90000 on 2021-03-16 19:50:32 GMT from United States)
It is important to distinguish between GUI 'software managers' and GUI package managers. I agree that the former are often slow, buggy and hard to use for finding non-GUI programs and dependencies. OTOH I use synaptic often because GUIs can do some tasks better than command line utilities and vice versa - they are complimentary. The only comparible experience I have to synaptic is yumex, which always seemed slow and quirky. So far a vital reason to stay in the Debian/apt ecosystem.
33 • re: Use a real firewall (by nanome on 2021-03-16 20:15:46 GMT from United Kingdom)
@31: "Use a real firewall". OPNsense is a HardenedBSD "distro" that runs on a dedicated 2-port computer that sits between the Modem and the protected computers. It runs a Firewall [BSD flavour], amongst other things.
I guess that a spare single port computer with a USB-RJ11 adaptor could be used here. Would this intermediate computer run from a read-only device or partition? Otherwise, how would it be defended from malware and interference?
Still, I can see the attraction of this OPNsense type of defence in front of the Modem/Router.
34 • (G)UFW -> IPtables (by A.Luc on 2021-03-16 23:30:44 GMT from France)
I voted IPtables because Wikipedia explains UFW (thus GUFW) uses IPtables.
I use Ubuntu and actually duly configure my firewall settings through GUFW.
35 • (G)UFW -> IPtables (2) (by A.Luc on 2021-03-16 23:41:17 GMT from France)
I hadnot seen thoses previous comments (#4, #25...) that concur with the fact that UFW indeed relies on IPtables.
36 • Package management software (by A.Luc on 2021-03-17 00:09:59 GMT from France)
I depend on Synaptic mostly. Sometimes on APT or Aptitude when i work in a shell.
I rarely open GNOME Software because, on Ubuntu, Snap fatware is mixed with Deb package, and you have to be careful the package isnot a Snap fatware.
So far my policy is : let me not use snaps unless there is no Deb package for the piece of software i want. And everything i need comes through Deb package, except the mandatory stuff Ubuntu crapily migrated to Snap (a reason why i consider swapping to another Debian-based distro).
I also have a Manjaro box i use occasionnally, and consequently use Pamac and Pacman in the same conditions. But i havenot activated AUR, just default Manjaro repositories.
So far, Ubuntu updates for years (Ubuntu, then Ubuntu GNOME Remix -> Ubuntu) have proven more reliable than Manjaro's in 2 1/2 years time, which are yet good enough (considering i had nightmares with broken RedHat updates in the past and refuse to use a RPM-based system anymore).
Incidently : I swapped to the community Ubuntu GNOME Remix while Ubuntu shipped with Unity. I hated the way the Unity shell managed software categories and it was definitely too heavy on resources on my old 2001 Pentium 4 792MB laptop (the animation displayed one screen per second - seemingly Unity didnot use graphic acceleration on my old Radeon chipset). Some snear at GNOME 3 because it embed JavaScript, but at least it ressorts to graphic acceleration and was usable on this old machine (Firefox, was too much yet so i had also a more modern laptop...). When using GNOME 3, i always enable the Application Menu and Places Menu extensions, because i hate loosing time looking for an application in a single unclassified heap.
37 • Firewall (by john on 2021-03-17 01:13:01 GMT from Canada)
When I took the poll, I was a bit surprised the # 1 (barely) response is "No Firewall". I use a firewall on my systems even when I am behind a router. Since most people's routers are supplied by their ISP, I would nervous about not have one active.
38 • firewall (by haha on 2021-03-17 07:00:38 GMT from United States)
Lazy man's firewall is a 2900 baud modem.
39 • rust/coreutils (by haha on 2021-03-17 07:04:40 GMT from United States)
Whats advantage of writing coreutils in debian in rust vs say D lang? It'd be interesting to put up such a parallel project, see who comes out on top. Though ive got other things to do.
40 • Linux security (by whoKnows on 2021-03-17 08:39:33 GMT from Switzerland)
22 • firewalls are only part of the solution (by nanome from United Kingdom)
Unfortunately, malware such as Spectre and Meltdown require measures implemented by the Linux kernel: a good reason to install security updates, even if you want your distro to have long-term stability [if it works, leave alone].
“If you want your distro to have long-term [security and] stability”, you'll probably want to avoid Linux in the first place.
Security holes open for years, end user software written by hobbyists ...
Even the security in Linux depends on so much hated “big players” ... Google finds out the issue, which Microsoft is patching or Oracle rewriting ... kind of.
https://www.heise.de/news/GitHub-Report-Schwachstellen-in-Open-Source-bleiben-jahrelang-unentdeckt-4980891.html
https://www.heise.de/tipps-tricks/Ist-Open-Source-Software-wirklich-sicherer-3929357.html
41 • firewall (by hulondalo on 2021-03-17 10:18:05 GMT from Indonesia)
to firewall is better than to not firewall.
i had to block an entire google clouds ip block cause somebody persistently tried to spam me with their crypto scam and /etc/hosts just couldn't do it. using ad/script blocker is not an option cause i still need to allow ads. sorry google.
42 • solus (by nicu on 2021-03-17 18:19:00 GMT from Moldova)
Solus is a nice distro, but it reinvents a lot of things from scratch,
1st of all it has a crappy installer, why not just use calamares instead of creating an installer with a lot of functionality missing.
Installer hangs, it doesn't see existing HDD partitions every 2nd run, when you choose manual partitioning, Also it doesn't work with uefi secure mode, And it cannot format anything except EXT4.
So why bother updating it, if there is already calamares there.
2nd: its UI package manager hangs a lot too...., If you didn't update for a lot of time, command line is the only option.
43 • All different, but same ... (by whoKnows on 2021-03-17 18:38:43 GMT from Switzerland)
@42 • solus (by nicu from Moldova)
Kinda same stuff, wherever you look. Even if the Solus would be the first Linux ever that almost works, already EOPKG is a reason enough to let it rest in peace.
I don't really understand EXACTLY WHY everybody likes to bring something “all new AND broken” and let it out on the people ...
OpenMandriva LX 4.2 ...
Installation into VirtualBox went without a hitch, but it doesn't auto mount the shared folder.
The first thing that one gets to see on the desktop is the word “official” on the wallpaper, that does not align to anything. Worse, it's Win Vista style doesn't match the rest, which is “flat” design. Welcome page is hard-coded and doesn't scale properly.
The default theme uses too many transparencies and is easily switchable to several presets, all of which are either just wrong (Mac), even worse than that (Win10) or absolutely wrong (Ubuntu).
Bad default set of software (Falkon browser??), no replacement (Firefox in OM is still on 85.0.1!), broken updater (exactly one update since release, FF 3 versions behind!)...
Probably all fixable, but bother if one can get something (Mageia e.g.) that does it all better?
In summary: Perfectly broken in every detail ...
Number of Comments: 43
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