 DistroWatch Weekly |
| Tip Jar |
If you've enjoyed this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly, please consider sending us a tip.
(Tips this week: 2, value: US$9.10) |
|
|
|
 bc1qxes3k2wq3uqzr074tkwwjmwfe63z70gwzfu4lx  lnurl1dp68gurn8ghj7ampd3kx2ar0veekzar0wd5xjtnrdakj7tnhv4kxctttdehhwm30d3h82unvwqhhxarpw3jkc7tzw4ex6cfexyfua2nr  86fA3qPTeQtNb2k1vLwEQaAp3XxkvvvXt69gSG5LGunXXikK9koPWZaRQgfFPBPWhMgXjPjccy9LA9xRFchPWQAnPvxh5Le paypal.me/distrowatchweekly • patreon.com/distrowatch |
|
| Extended Lifecycle Support by TuxCare |
|
|
| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • kwort (by vern on 2021-02-01 04:03:01 GMT from United States)
I had the exact experience trying to get kwort loading/running. I gave up.
I run both KDE and LXQT and really like QT.
2 • KIS only for some user (by Dhoni on 2021-02-01 04:03:53 GMT from Indonesia)
Dunno why people use this KIS distro, so far i only met 3 kind of linux user segment.
1. User who use linux for workstation, ex. me
2. User who use linux for server, ex. me
3. Old/young user who use linux first time, ex my kids or my parent..
So which user segment is this KIS distro trying to reach??
3 • Locales and KIS (by FNSpiderMan on 2021-02-01 05:15:50 GMT from United States)
Jesse, locales are set using LANG and various LC_* variables, which are not, as you might know, distro-specific. I have these in my /etc/profile:
export CHARSET=UTF-8
export LANG=en_US.UTF-8
export LC_COLLATE=C
(See chapters 7 and 8 of POSIX' Base Definitions -- https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/idx/xbd.html)
Now as for @2 and the general appeal of KIS distributions, I believe the segment is represented by hackers in the old, normal sense of the word (see the Wikipedia page on the term), by some hobbyists who might also be hackers by the definition, by people who like exploring something new, and maybe by some admins who prefer to maintain a no-frills distribution. I personally like simplicity in all things so I enjoy such a distribution myself. Which is probably another kind of people who use them.
4 • KIS distros (by Will on 2021-02-01 05:18:23 GMT from United States)
LFS is about the closest to a KIS distro that I have found useful (mostly for learning how things work). The idea of providing simplicity to the user and of making it simple and transparent to configure and administer sounds great, but I haven't seen any distros that fit the bill. I like Mint, but it's not transparent or easy to understand what it's doing.
Ideally, I'd like a distro that explains what it's doing when it's doing it. One example:
Enabling ssh server...
Click the button to enable sshd startup - system confirms your intention, then modifies some files and tells you about those modification, runs a command to start the service and tells you its starting, and returns to your control. While it's doing things, it keeps a log that is accessible later. It also tells you what you need to do to reverse the changes.
The way this usually works is you run a command to install ssh-server, or click a button to start it automatically, and then a bunch of changes are made to your system (maybe messages appear on your screen about what's happening, maybe not). No log is kept (unless you copy paste). And a bunch of magic takes place that isn't reversable.
5 • Qt (by pin on 2021-02-01 05:33:46 GMT from Sweden)
"All of this is to say, very little is changing with Qt."
Well, it actually does because, Qt pushed through a half-ready product missing a lot of functionality with the release of Qt-6.0. Qt-6.0 is far from production ready, leaving several open source projects with the following options; 5.12 (latest non-commercial LTS), 5.15 without fixes or updates (unless you pay for it) of, a half broken 6.0.
The question is, if when 6.2, the next LTS is released, what will be the state of the following development branch. In practice, they are handing out a non-usable product to the open source community and expect them to contribute fixes to a future commercial release that won't be possible to use without a license.
6 • KISS (by nsp0323 on 2021-02-01 05:53:38 GMT from Sweden)
Personally, I only use OS's that provide minimal install images without desktop environments appended, as I prefer to build my own.
So, I use Void (musl-libc build) and NetBSD, both running with just a window manager.
7 • @2 KIS not for you? (by James on 2021-02-01 06:32:09 GMT from Switzerland)
@2 4. Users who want to play with their linux distribution.
8 • KIS (by speedytux on 2021-02-01 07:30:26 GMT from France)
Keep It Simple distributions include the fabulous Archlinux that I use for 11 years now with great satisfaction. It doesn't mean fewer features. Mine is Arch+GNOME install on a powerful Thinkpad X1 Extreme, with the latest stable kernel, latest stable Gnome, latest stable Firefox, Chromium (or google-chrome if you prefer)...
9 • KIS(S) (by denk_mal on 2021-02-01 07:33:40 GMT from Germany)
I for my personal use prefer KIS distris for my server and docker container and non KIS distri for desktop mashines.
So for me it depends not on me, it depends on the use-case.
10 • KIS (by speedytux on 2021-02-01 07:34:22 GMT from France)
I forget to add a reference to the Arch wiki where KISS is explained. Following the links, you can understand the principles behind Arch. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_terminology#KISS
11 • KIS (by speedytux on 2021-02-01 07:52:14 GMT from France)
The main KIS user type is someone who wishes to keep full control of his system. For various reasons: study, security, fun.
12 • KIS (by Simon on 2021-02-01 08:26:47 GMT from New Zealand)
The difference between KIS and heavily automated distros is like the difference between a manual and an automatic transmission: the manual transmission's simplicity means it takes a bit longer to learn how to use it...but then you have (a) more control than you get from automation, and (b) a more robust, resilient mechanism that's also much easier to fix if something goes wrong. With a KIS OS you're going to invest a bit more time up front in setting things up the way you want them to be...but then they actually are the way you want them to be, and they stay that way. The increasingly Windows-like popular Linux desktops, full of complex automation, disempower users by placing them more and more in the hands of developers.
Make a system complex enough, and "FOSS" means very little because for all practical purposes the code might as well be closed source: if it's so complex you need teams of developers to change things for you, you're not really in control of your tech. KIS is part of the UNIX philosophy: a simple tool that "does one thing and does it well" is easy to debug, easy to hack on...just better to work with than the obscene do-everything monstrosities that the Windows world produces (and, ever since the Linux community became a community of mostly ex-Windows users, increasingly the Linux world is producing them too). So while distros like Slackware boot to their desktops in a second or two, parsing simple BASH scripts that anyone can read and understand, modern Windows-like distros chug away for twenty seconds or more, trudging through all the layers of horrible complexity that they need in order to do automatically all the things that their users don't know how to do for themselves.
KIS is actually what all Linux distros were in the beginning, when part of the way Linux empowered you was by enabling you to understanding your system and know what every bit of software was doing. That was back when the majority of Linux users had UNIX and/or computer science backgrounds, and the people using it from Windows desktop backgrounds were a minority. Now that ex-Windows users with their Windows-based expectations make up the majority of Linux users, KIS has become the minority approach. Folks prefer their desktops to think for them as much as possible...wow, look at all this stuff that's happening automatically without my doing anything...it's so great, it feels like good ol' Windows.
13 • New Distros (by Pete on 2021-02-01 09:17:52 GMT from United Kingdom)
Oh, two " new distros " this week both resembling Windows. Why! I do find that a lot of distros nowadays are becoming as bland as MS.
14 • @12 KIS analogy (by Jeff on 2021-02-01 09:48:36 GMT from United States)
I kind of see your point, but even though I prefer manual transmissions in vehicles to the point of all but refusing to drive automatic I do not run KIS distros.
For most people the car or truck is built for them, they are not doing the set-up themselves.
15 • new distros (by mechanic on 2021-02-01 10:01:34 GMT from United Kingdom)
These 'new' distros may resemble Windows for the very good reason that MSFT solved many design issues with solutions that worked for users. Not much point in reinventing wheels.
16 • KIS (by mechanic on 2021-02-01 10:16:10 GMT from United Kingdom)
@12 the trouble with 'simple' systems is that they connect to other simple systems, and each system may have different ideas. I've tried various simple distros (example:lxle) and they nearly always fail to address user cases in a simple way.
Any system should be able to:
- run as a virtual machine under Windows or BSD or Linux hosts;
- be able to print from the virtual machine;
- and share files with the host in a straightforward way
- play Youtube videos with good sound.
Very few do!
17 • KiS distro's (by denpes on 2021-02-01 10:41:55 GMT from Belgium)
In the last decade, the amount of complexity has increased quite a bit in linux distro's. Mostly to implement convenience for the users, and also because old principles are thrown away to quickly implement new functionality(snap, systemd,etc). Things also change quicker due to the huge participation of so many people/organizations.
There aren't many KIS distro's left. Most distro's jump on the latest bandwagon in the hope they are not left behind. I still consider debian/devuan pretty KIS, but Slackware is really sticking and holding on to the KIS principle. It's always an easy and quick installation, plus you know what to expect. That's probably why I like Slackware so much. It lacks some convenience if you change software/frameworks a lot. But it wins with simplicity under the hood.
18 • KIS (by FNSpiderMan on 2021-02-01 11:30:27 GMT from Germany)
@16 Simple in the way they are organized, it doesn't mean "noob-friendly", something which Ubuntu-based LXLE is. Ubuntu is in no way a KISS distribution. Back in the day you were supposed to build the kernel by yourself to make sure you include the drivers and the features you need while removing those you don't. So the use cases mentioned are up to the user and if the user can't address them, it's up to the user.
Like with KIS distributions, manual transmissions are rare these days.
19 • Kiss, what is it (by Hank on 2021-02-01 11:32:03 GMT from United States)
I consider antiX pretty much a KISS distro but with the luxury for those who want or need them
a plethora of tools created by devs and forum members. Very much the best of two worlds. Easy to understand and configure with text config files on one hand.
Other extreme is a one click customization script from a forum member PPC which transforms fluxbox desktop into something with a familiar look and feel for windows fugitives.
For ICEWM many tools and scripts are also available to ease setup and usage..
No systemD up to date applications on a rock solid base of debian buster. Lightning fast both live from persistent changes saving usb stick or installed to disk. One of the Best Of the Best.
20 • KIS OSs (by TheTKS on 2021-02-01 13:05:50 GMT from Canada)
I could say I use both, or probably more correctly a spectrum, and lean towards preferring KIS, but what I use depends on the job.
But “Is this distro/BSD KIS?” doesn’t have a binary answer.
Looking at ones I use:
TinyCore is KIS although I actually use CorePlus, with a Window Manager and wifi management, so that’s not quite as KIS as TinyCore.
The main two Puppies can be KIS, but they also have a lot of GUI tools to make things “easy” for the user but not necessarily “simple”.
OpenBSD with fvwm is KIS, but they’ve made it easy for the user of stable branch, rather than dead simple, to do OS updates, and not so long ago same for 3rd party package updates. Install KDE or Xfce and a huge pile of 3rd party packages on top of that - still KIS?
Slackware has a KIS way of administering it but a huge list of 3rd party packages by default, and I’m really liking KDE 5 Plasma on -current. So KIS or not?
Xubuntu and elementaryOS I would say are far from KIS. They are pretty easy to use.
So KIS is simple in concept but not necessarily simply implemented.
TKS
21 • KIS(S) (by Semiarticulae on 2021-02-01 15:14:33 GMT from United States)
After using Linux for well over 20 years, it seems to me that the majority of distributions are becoming the thing I once sought to replace. I won't profess that to be either good or bad. It's just a fact that distributions have become more complex over time. Who would have thought that could happen.
I prefer knowing what is going on. Thank goodness for the likes of Slackware, Void, LFS, etc... With complexity comes risk, and these KIS(S) distros help to mitigate that.
Now if only there was a KIS(S) version of the internet.
22 • KIs that I still use (by John on 2021-02-01 15:44:04 GMT from United States)
I still use 50MB DSL booting from CD as a cheap fast X windows terminal with multiple ssh windows open to multiple Linux machines.
Works great. Even so DSL is greatly overbloated!
Where is a Memory Stick version of Linux that just does X widows to a main Linux box?
That would be worthwhile news about a KIS Linux distribution.
John
23 • KISS! (by Nathan on 2021-02-01 16:01:02 GMT from United States)
Many chefs spoil the broth, and if Picasso and da Vinci tried to collaborate on a painting together, things would get ugly.
For those of us who see operating systems in a similar way, KISS is the way to go. A non-KISS distro presents you with a more-or-less completed work of art, with each update adding a dash of cumin or a dab of paint here or there, reinforcing the developers' vision of their artwork. KISS distros, on the other hand, provide a blank canvas and the supplies for you to craft your masterpiece. I love Arch for this reason, and have come to love Gentoo even more for the same reasons.
The Ubuntus of this world still serve a purpose, and I don't mean to go railing on them. There is no such thing as one distro to rule them all, and part of Linux's strength is that developers are at liberty to create distros tailored to specific tasks. Not every distro needs to run well as a VM or play video. Some should since that's a common use case, and othors should make for great servers, and I'm grateful that yet others exist that follow KISS, making no assumptions about how I want my system to behave.
24 • KIS (by bison on 2021-02-01 16:23:16 GMT from United States)
My favorite KIS distribution for daily use is AntiX. It's based on Debian, it's simple and fast (no systemd or desktop environment), and it comes with a codecs installer.
25 • KIS: beans, please - hold the rice (by Jay on 2021-02-01 17:22:54 GMT from Slovenia)
KIS is for people that want to do their own driving - and some of us are minimalists as well. For me, minimalism is about keeping only what one needs and/or loves.
That means custom-fitting my computing for system security and personal privacy (needs) and choosing only the WM and apps that maximize my productivity (loves).
Less is more. DEs and other cruft I'll never use are misfeatures.
26 • KIS vs KIC (by Otis on 2021-02-01 17:46:31 GMT from United States)
There is a lot in-between Keep It Simple and Keep It Complicated. A veritable range in steps of grey area to the great unknowns of code etc in the distro universe. My KIS is too complicated for some who might venture into my distro's innards and workings. My KIC is too simple for devs and others who really want to have a hand in the whole thing.
There was a time when it all was too complicated, so some of us kept following the Windows garbage truck. Then we learned and also watched as some of the same distros that seemed too much work to get going became easier.. then the afore mentioned range of distros from simple to not-so--simple began to come into view over the years.
27 • kis (by vasea on 2021-02-01 19:05:29 GMT from Moldova)
Define what kis exactly means,
because I use artix, specifically runit + xfce edition, and I think it is really simple to use,
it has a package manager which uses .tar.whatever files instead of specialized formats,
it uses a simple init system without magic,
and overall arch is a simple distro with a great wiki.
so because of that I voted that i use a KIS distro.
28 • @27 (by Simon on 2021-02-01 19:53:19 GMT from New Zealand)
It means "Keep It Simple". Simple means not complex: a system with three parts (e.g. a paintbrush, a pot of paint and a piece of paper) is simpler than a system with millions of parts (e.g. a robot holding a brush, paint and paper).
Where a lot of people get confused is that they imagine "simple" to mean "easy". This mistake probably comes from the fact that simple problems are usually (though not always) easier to solve than complex problems, so people say "oh, that's simple" and mean roughly "oh, that's easy".
With distros it is roughly the opposite: the simpler a distro is, the "harder" it seems to people who don't know how to use the simple tools available to them. The more complex automation a distro has layered on to make decisions for people who wouldn't know what to do otherwise, the "easier" it feels to those people. So KIS means "simple" like a paintbrush and paper is simple: it just sits there and you have to learn how to use it yourself...but it empowers you to do exactly what you want, once you've learnt how. Complex is more like a robot holding the brush and asking "what would you like me to paint for you?". Yes, it's "easy" in the sense that you get painting done without even knowing how to paint...but for someone who does know how to paint, it's just frustrating...you want to dismantle the robot and just grab the brush and get it done. It's also much less reliable and more error-prone: a brush has fewer bugs than a robot.
29 • Kwort (by Jyrki on 2021-02-01 20:05:51 GMT from Czechia)
had the same experience. Does it work at all for anyone?
30 • My version of KIS (by mikef90000 on 2021-02-01 21:56:07 GMT from United States)
is to install a lighter DE *without* a display (login) manager that starts X automatically.
I have Xfce installed on servers that, when needed, I start with 'startx'. With todays inexpensive storage the space occupied by a DE is trivial.
Many GUI front ended tools are far more productive and safer to me 'in sysadmin mode'.
31 • Buster Dog -- KIS (by Mick Wandlebury on 2021-02-01 22:44:15 GMT from United States)
I really like BusterDog Linux. My custom build has Slim for logins, Openbox, JWM, or i3 for
the wm, and XFCE for the desktop. The regular Debian repos are available, and there os no
systemd. Porteus-style squash filesystem modules can be mounted and de-activated on the
fly. See https://debiandog.github.io/doglinux/zz03busterdog.html if you want to build your own.
32 • KIS slackware (by JohnM on 2021-02-01 23:25:53 GMT from Canada)
I selected "I like them but do not run one", only because the term KIS seems to be morphing. Note. I use Slackware at home, RHEL at work.
So I consider Slackware to be the definition of KIS, once installed all settings remain as is until you change it yourself. But with RHEL, sometimes configs are updated with a patch, which occurred last week, which is why I still use Slackware.
But seems some "KIS" may include some automatic patching and config settings. So not quite sure what KIS is these days :)
33 • LxQt (by jonathing on 2021-02-02 01:34:00 GMT from Australia)
A swallowed the jaggared pill of Lubuntu / LXDE combining with Razor Qt to create LxQt but when the Right Click menu on the desktop, when usimg openbox as window manager, got taken away I stopped using it entirely.
Thanks for letting me whine..
34 • Keep it Simple, or Complicated: KIS, KIC. (by Greg Zeng on 2021-02-02 06:06:49 GMT from Australia)
Cognitive scientists find "evolution" to be interesting, from the Simple, towards the complicated. There are many examples on Linux, like in all evolutionary systems.
The first virtual computers were physical & continuous. Then alphanumerics were used in a digital approximation of "reality".
These early computers were slowly, bulky & limited in usefulness: numbers only. Then symbols and continuous variables allowed better use of these virtual intelligences to assist human intelligence. So finally graphics, sounds & other non-digital inputs could be used by these digital machines.
In Linux terms, this is shown by the historical existence on Arch (no graphics, no GUI), then many later display managers: "window managers", "display environments", and then the developments in Android that have yet to reach the bulk of the Linux communities: user-intelligence adjusting, etc.
The lead Linux system review was one KIS version of Linux. The evolution of the Linux system mirrors so much of other living systems: plants, animals, languages, music, fashion, engineering, etc.
As the overall environment changes, the basic "intelligence" needs to adapt to be more useful to the new situations. Microsoft Windows, like Canonical, needs to have LTS for those who are fearful of too much experimentation.
Younger risk takers are willing kill off the older ways, to put everything onto something very new, unusual & incompatible with older ways. When GNOME-2 was moving towards GNOME-3, this meant stopping the WIMP-desktop metaphor invented by Xerox.
Canonical's Unity & GNOME-3 are still demanding keyboard skills, trying to avoid the WIMP metaphor. Many traditionalists in Linux remember the days of "traditional loyalty", before GUI & WIMP were invented.
In evolutionary terms, the older Apple & Microsoft systems are like the dinosaurs, founded on the ready-to-run baby, after the egg shell is broken. Linux was similar to the first mammals, overwhelmed by the inflexible dinosaurs. The Linux mammal required so much baby-ing, so many births, re-incarnations & experiments. Linux, Apple's new systems & BSD share the first mammalian ancestor: Unix.
Linux alone has conquered the server, IoT, mobile & cloud worlds. Microsoft still is struggling to hold onto the desktop world, where Linux is a very poor third time Bronze Medal "winner".
Before Linux defeats Microsoft & Apple, it needs to tidy up its package managers, display environments and vertical integrations in the intelligence industries. Distrowatch & its readers are the main industry reporter ATM for the open source Linux industries.
The newest developments & hopes for Linux seems to be from the Open Source industries. This explains why the large financial contributors to "The Linux Foundation", etc are some of the privateers (Red Hat, Canonical, Red Hat, Samsung, IBM, Google, Huawei, etc).
Of special interest are those privateers which seem hostile to Open Source products like Linux: Apple & Nvidia. Does cooperation, theft, or hostility to innovation work better?
Similarly, amongst Linux users, does forking or rebelling the main trends produce better results, in the long run?
35 • News: Serious sudo vulnerability patched (by Velho Rabujento on 2021-02-02 10:52:48 GMT from Brazil)
sudo itself is a bug.
No way to fix it!
36 • KIS (by marco71 on 2021-02-02 11:13:28 GMT from Romania)
Fan of KISS here (Keep it Small and Simple) for ages :)
@17, very good point of view, totally agree!
I'm using Slackware & Devuan for almost everything, although some old, light openvz containers in use are running minimal Debian 7 and CentOS 6, that can be considered KIS...
For me, KIS(S) means no bloat (no systemd, snap, flatpak, gnome, kde, mono, etc) and I'd probably give a try to CRUX and Void
37 • KISS (by Fred on 2021-02-02 12:28:34 GMT from Brazil)
@12
"KIS is part of the UNIX philosophy: a simple tool that "does one thing and does it well" is easy to debug, easy to hack on..."
Slackware is a typical example of the UNIX philosophy. So fast, so simple, so smart. And look at how "intelligently" it manages dependencies...
Yes, Simon, KISS (Keep It Strictly Strange) is the way to go, isn't it? Things like MX Linux are "abomination". Even a little girl can use it with no difficulty.
I don't understand why people want an operating system that "just works". What's the reason for all that ease and completeness?
Oh my Gosh: MX Linux even got Wi-Fi firmware and a Web browser... Unbelievable!
38 • Keep it Simple? (by Dude on 2021-02-02 13:38:28 GMT from United States)
I like a simple intuitive graphical interface like MATE. Keep it simple by supporting MY WiFi adapter out of the box with no driver hassles. Keep it simple by making the whole distro fit on a bootable 2gb thumb drive. Synaptic and Apt are simple. This is why I stick with Linux Mint.
39 • Keep it simple stupid (by Mariano on 2021-02-02 18:02:33 GMT from Argentina)
From Wikipedia:
KISS
The acronym was reportedly coined by Kelly Johnson, lead engineer at the Lockheed Skunk Works (creators of the Lockheed U-2 and SR-71 Blackbird spy planes, among many others).
While popular usage has transcribed it for decades as "Keep it simple, stupid", Johnson transcribed it as "Keep it simple stupid" (no comma), and this reading is still used by many authors.
The principle is best exemplified by the story of Johnson handing a team of design engineers a handful of tools, with the challenge that the jet aircraft they were designing must be repairable by an average mechanic in the field under combat conditions with only these tools. Hence, the "stupid" refers to the relationship between the way things break and the sophistication available to repair them.
The acronym has been used by many in the U.S. military, especially the U.S. Navy and United States Air Force, and in the field of software development.
Variants
The principle most likely finds its origins in similar minimalist concepts, such as Occam's razor, Leonardo da Vinci's "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication", Shakespeare's "Brevity is the soul of wit"...
40 • KISS (by Cheker on 2021-02-02 18:35:21 GMT from Portugal)
Perhaps I'm looking at this wrong, but it seems that user friendliness and simplicity and inversely proportional. Being user friendly implies above all a nice visual design and some easily accessible buttons to configure/do things.
These "buttons" under the hood are just automation.
This automation is precisely what goes against the simplicity mentioned in the KISS principle, and that the distros the likes of Slack and Gentoo keep alive. You take this automation away, and the user is left to their own devices and has to figure things out...the system is now simpler, but the user has to know what they're doing.
The billion dollar question is how do you achieve a good balance between making a system acceptably easy to use, whilst not being a dependency/troubleshooting nightmare.
41 • KISS; @40--Ckeker (by R. Cain on 2021-02-02 22:10:27 GMT from United States)
No, you are definitely NOT looking at this wrong; the people who "...look at this wrong..." are those who think that "simplicity" and "elegance" are mutually exclusive; that you can NOT have both at the same time. One of THE simplest AND most elegant distributions *ever* was Linux Mint 13--"MAYA"--whose sophistication, at ≈ 900 MB, has never been equaled.
I don't understand the search for new distros which fulfill an artificial criterion (who is the arbiter of the 'simplicity' of a distribution?), while not even work properly, or universally...
"..."The Kwort distribution is available in one edition for 64-bit (x86_64) computers. The ISO file is a 1GB download...This brought my trial with Kwort to an early conclusion. “
“...The distribution [SulinOS] runs on 64-bit (x86_64) machines exclusively...the desktop editions vary...up to about 1.7GB...
...Unfortunately this left me with a distribution that included virtually no software, no working package manager to install new applications, and no documentation that would help me address these issues. This again brought my trial to an early end.”
What, exactly, is SO HARD about understanding that one of the simplest and most feature-complete distributions has occupied the #1 spot on DW now for a VERY long time: MX Linux. Its versions 17 and 18.1 were named the very best distros of 2018 and 2019, and contains one of the best Linux tools ever: MXTools. [Stick with v. 18.1/2/3 (<1400 MB); rev 19 is not near as elegant, or worthy].
And if you want something *really* small AND feature-complete, give MX Linux's stable-mate, antiX v. 17.4.1, a whirl; 32/64-bit, <1000 MB.
Oh, one more thing: no systemD on either of these.
42 • To KIS or not to KIS (by Simon Wainscott-Plaistowe on 2021-02-02 23:23:47 GMT from New Zealand)
Gone are my days of distro-hopping. I like my Linux workstations to "just work" so I can get on with the stuff I have to get done. To that end, Linux Mint works for me (either Cinnamon or XFCE, depending). IPFire is simple and does me well as firewall and basic fileserver. And for R&D and general experimentation, anything goes - simple or not, it's all good fun and learning.
43 • @41 R,Cain: (by dragonmouth on 2021-02-03 00:16:20 GMT from United States)
As one of my co-workers was wont to say "Elegance is for tailors."
44 • elegance, simple and complex, and relativity (by Titus_Groan on 2021-02-03 08:27:03 GMT from New Zealand)
there are two parts to the use of a computer, the OS and the user.
The computer (and OS) typically does nothing of and by itself, it cannot even plug in the power plug.
are you a simple user of a complex OS or a complex user of a simple OS?
A distro may look great, but if it doesnt work, *elegance* wont cut it.
simple test.
remove the file manager from any distro.
if you are now having difficulty, then it is a complex OS (relative to you) and you are a simple user.
If you are having no issues, then it is a KISS OS (relative to you) and you are confident and likely competent as well, in the use of your OS.
Didn't there used to be *Dumb Terminals* ?
There is elegance in the terminal, eye of the beholder and all that.
45 • KIS (by tad.generic on 2021-02-03 14:00:36 GMT from Canada)
Why less love for KIS? Because the vast majority want to USE technology, not MAINTAIN technology. Computers have long left the realm of the tinkerer geek.
Computers need to Just Work, so the PC needs to be as much akin to an appliance as possible. ChromeOS would be the closest thing to an appliance that isn't a tablet/phone OS - turn it on and use it. If a user has to spend time thinking about and mucking with what their apps run on, rather than using their apps, that's not going to endear them to your product.
Saw an analogy using transmissions. Go further and use cars. How many here know how to operate a Model-T? We live in a world where the vast majority of cars built today are very appliance-like where the average driver could operate most any consumer vehicle after finding the ignition - that's maturity and standardization, and in consumer technology that's a good thing.
Most people own cars in order to take them places with low effort and high convenience, not because they love cars and tinkering on cars. Most just pick a car based on style and colour, now what type of steel is used in the crankshaft or how many valves per cylinder it has.
Congratulations - Linux has come at last to a point where it can, in some cases, become an appliance. That's something to celebrate.
And that doesn't take anything away from those who love tuning carburetors, running gearboxes, or building their own engine - the hobbyist aspect will always be there.
46 • But what exactly do they mean by "simple"? (by Igor on 2021-02-03 14:43:10 GMT from Croatia)
Obviously not simplicity of use by a user who regards computing as nothing else but a tools to accomplish something else than computing itself. Pay attention, this is the future of personal computing using devices akin to the notebook personal computer, obviously the context of this thread. Kids with their mobiles do not care about PCs any more than about maths, and we, participants here, are very soon going to be sort of niche, much like HiFi or radio enthusiasts.
Is it then simplicity of the OS design? Because nothing in this regards beats primitive and dirty DOS of old. Compared to it, UNIX is as simple as quantum physics.
Is it simplicity of coding? What exactly is simple code? Is there a useful 20000 lines of C code that another coder can read and understand a prima vista without any knowledge of its coding tasks and circumstances? For, when people reverse engineer a software, they do not start at what they see at hex editor, but at the behaviour of the program.
From all that I read in this thread so far, a software system is considered simple if it is easy to grasp and manage to its administrator. Even though administrator is extremely important role, it is just one sort of user, and not the one that is the target.
I propose a thought experiment. Let us cut off networking, GUI, all peripherals but a keyboard, and redesign the hardware accordingly. We can get sort of primitive PC, as in the beginnings, basic interpreter being its sole user interface. This way, the OS design could be radically simplified.
This is my point: use case is the criterion of both simplicity and usability of just about anything. People are able and willing to accomplish more and more things by means of computing, and so it is going more and more complex. And we are not willing to employ a full timer to be able to achieve that. We want the toolbox to be personal like in personal computer. Simplicity in this regard is nowadays named usability. I agree, but pursuing the basic rationale of computing, to aid people doing many different things, where exactly is the place for simplification? I believe it is in detail, just like with good coding. No razor, no silver bullet.
47 • My experience running Kwort (by eco2geek on 2021-02-03 18:54:40 GMT from United States)
I downloaded the Kwort ISO, burned it on a blank DVD+R, and booted from it.
The options were to boot with or without KMS (rather than RMS), meaning Kernel Mode Setting, which has to do with setting display resolution and depth (see the Arch Wiki for more about that). In my case, it loaded the nouveau display driver when run with KMS.
The boot procedure looked everywhere for the root filesystem, and after a long time spent examining every other partition on my computer, it finally found it on the DVD (aka /dev/sr0). But it didn't run a graphical live desktop like I was expecting. Instead, it gave a synopsis of how to install Kwort, which looked pretty complicated, and then left me sitting at a root prompt in the console.
It didn't seem to have an installation program; rather, it was all expected to be done manually. There can't be too many Linux distributions like that nowadays. I don't have the spare computer or the patience to do that, so that ended my time with Kwort.
48 • Kwort trials (by barnabyh on 2021-02-03 21:46:57 GMT from Germany)
My experience just now was almost exactly like that of the previous commenter, no. 47.
After presssing one of the two entries it showed only a blinking underscore cursor on black screen. I had to hit enter a few times for it to boot. It then gave a synopsis with I think 7 options to install Kwort, only to tell me in the last line I had now installed Kwort and to reboot. Gave me a slight cramp but knew that couldn' t be the case. Reboot - other OS still fine.
Second option, without KMS, did not go past the blinking cursor even with hitting enter.
49 • KIS - Just an argument over English language? (by Hoos on 2021-02-04 09:59:34 GMT from Singapore)
To me, all this hooha ultimately comes down to a difference in interpretation of the English word "simple" by the 2 factions. They both object to how distro A can be called "simple" when their understanding of that word is different:
1. easy to understand and figure out how to use = in respect of interface, layout, leading to easy usability by even end users who aren't familiar with the innards of the hardware or software in question (example: "so simple even a kid could use it")
2. minimal base, as few moving/working parts as possible = providing the bare minimum that is required for something to work, and depending on the expertise and effort of the end user to add on whatever else he or she needs, so there are no extraneous parts or services or packages in there (example: "living a simple, decluttered life")
The thing is, the 2 meanings are pretty much polar opposites because meaning 1 requires more effort/input from the creators and less from the end user, and vice versa. But that is the English language.
My question: how is this concept of KIS - an English acronym - translated in other languages? I would assume it won't even be KIS in some languages that don't use the Latin alphabet. Even if they do, it might not be "S".
And I suspect there might be totally different words used for the 2 meanings above.
Would be curious to hear from people who use other languages.
50 • @49 - KIS (cont) (by Hoos on 2021-02-04 10:18:51 GMT from Singapore)
Sorry, just to clarify that my point is that if the 2 different meanings used different words, there wouldn't be such a push back from the "user-friendly/intuitive" camp when an Arch user (just an example) tells them that Arch follows the Keep It Simple concept.
It seems to me that the main objection is the word "simple". As in, "how can you even call Arch simple?"
51 • @49, @50 better language for KIS (by curious on 2021-02-04 10:38:22 GMT from Germany)
English provides other words than simple that can distinguish between the two cases.
How about KIP (keep it primitive) or KIM (keep it minimal) versus KIE (keep it easy)?
As for other languages, in German at least I can't recall an expression that is used as commonly as KIS or KISS.
52 • KIS/KIC doesn't matter (by Stefan on 2021-02-04 12:06:42 GMT from Brazil)
@51
"How about KIP (keep it primitive) or KIM (keep it minimal) versus KIE (keep it easy)?"
What about KISS (Keep It Simply STABLE)?
The problem with the vast majority of Linux/BSD distros is the insane quantity of bugs present in their software. Devs should make more testing before releasing them. Newer software is not necessarily better software. And it has nothing to do with the simplicity or complexity of a distro. KIS/KIC doesn't matter when instability is a show stopper.
53 • Once upon a time... (by Jeff on 2021-02-05 02:55:33 GMT from United States)
Way back in the beginning computers were sold as tools to automate tedious tasks, so that humans would not need to waste their valuable time doing them.
So many in the Linux/BSD/FOSS world seem to want to do those tedious tasks so that their computer does not need to.
54 • GUI - WIMP vs shifty-keystroke, etc (by Fossilizing Dinosaur on 2021-02-05 18:02:29 GMT from United States)
WIMP has its place - it allows getting started with new software quickly - but complex shift-and-keystroke combinations permit greater productivity with complex software, for when one has climbed a learning curve. Perhaps a multi-touch/gesture also delivers an advantage for certain tools?
KISS often means Keep It Short & Simple - Long Simple procedures are wearing.
I haven't seen any description of the advantages of systemd - for one-user-at-a time systems - that isn't a confused, rambling incoherence of buzzwords, but I suspect much of the distaste comes from contributing devs being "leveraged" to clean up someone else's huge ugly piles of code. (Like the kernel?)
Sometimes getting addicted to someone's money has consequences.
Number of Comments: 54
Display mode: DWW Only • Comments Only • Both DWW and Comments
| | |
| TUXEDO |
TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite
Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
Learn more about our full service package and all benefits from buying at TUXEDO.
|
| Archives |
| • Issue 1167 (2026-04-06): Origami Linux 2026.03, answering questions for Linux newcomers, Ubuntu MATE seeking new contributors, Ubuntu software centre is expanding Deb support, FreeBSD fixes forum exploit, openSUSE 15 Leap nears its end of life |
| • Issue 1166 (2026-03-30): NetBSD jails, publishing software for Linux, Ubuntu joins Rust Foundation, Canonical plans to trim GRUB features, Peppermint works on new utilities, PINE64 shows off open hardware capabilities |
| • Issue 1165 (2026-03-23): Argent Linux 1.5.3, disk space required by Linux, Manjaro team goes on strike, AlmaLinux improves NVIDIA driver support and builds RISC-V packages, systemd introduces age tracking |
| • Issue 1164 (2026-03-16): d77void, age verification laws and Linux, SUSE may be for sale, TrueNAS takes its build system private, Debian publishes updated Trixie media, MidnightBSD and System76 respond to age verification laws |
| • Issue 1163 (2026-03-09): KaOS 2026.02, TinyCore 17.0, NuTyX 26.02.2, Would one big collection of packages help?, Guix offers 64-bit Hurd options, Linux communities discuss age delcaration laws, Mint unveils new screensaver for Cinnamon, Redox ports new COSMIC features |
| • Issue 1162 (2026-03-02): AerynOS 2026.01, anti-virus and firewall tools, Manjaro fixes website certificate, Ubuntu splits firmware package, jails for NetBSD, extended support for some Linux kernel releases, Murena creating a map app |
| • Issue 1161 (2026-02-23): The Guix package manager, quick Q&As, Gentoo migrating its mirrors, Fedora considers more informative kernel panic screens, GhostBSD testing alternative X11 implementation, Asahi makes progress with Apple M3, NetBSD userland ported, FreeBSD improves web-based system management |
| • Issue 1160 (2026-02-16): Noid and AgarimOS, command line tips, KDE Linux introduces delta updates, Redox OS hits development milestone, Linux Mint develops a desktop-neutral account manager, sudo developer seeks sponsorship |
| • Issue 1159 (2026-02-09): Sharing files on a network, isolating processes on Linux, LFS to focus on systemd, openSUSE polishes atomic updates, NetBSD not likely to adopt Rust code, COSMIC roadmap |
| • Issue 1158 (2026-02-02): Manjaro 26.0, fastest filesystem, postmarketOS progress report, Xfce begins developing its own Wayland window manager, Bazzite founder interviewed |
| • Issue 1157 (2026-01-26): Setting up a home server, what happened to convergence, malicious software entering the Snap store, postmarketOS automates hardware tests, KDE's login manager works with systemd only |
| • Issue 1156 (2026-01-19): Chimera Linux's new installer, using the DistroWatch Torrent Corner, new package tools for Arch, Haiku improves EFI support, Redcore streamlines branches, Synex introduces install-time ZFS options |
| • Issue 1155 (2026-01-12): MenuetOS, CDE on Sparky, iDeal OS 2025.12.07, recommended flavour of BSD, Debian seeks new Data Protection Team, Ubuntu 25.04 nears its end of life, Google limits Android source code releases, Fedora plans to replace SDDM, Budgie migrates to Wayland |
| • Issue 1154 (2026-01-05): postmarketOS 25.06/25.12, switching to Linux and educational resources, FreeBSD improving laptop support, Unix v4 available for download, new X11 server in development, CachyOS team plans server edtion |
| • Issue 1153 (2025-12-22): Best projects of 2025, is software ever truly finished?, Firefox to adopt AI components, Asahi works on improving the install experience, Mageia presents plans for version 10 |
| • Issue 1152 (2025-12-15): OpenBSD 7.8, filtering websites, Jolla working on a Linux phone, Germany saves money with Linux, Ubuntu to package AMD tools, Fedora demonstrates AI troubleshooting, Haiku packages Go language |
| • Issue 1151 (2025-12-08): FreeBSD 15.0, fun command line tricks, Canonical presents plans for Ubutnu 26.04, SparkyLinux updates CDE packages, Redox OS gets modesetting driver |
| • Issue 1150 (2025-12-01): Gnoppix 25_10, exploring if distributions matter, openSUSE updates tumbleweed's boot loader, Fedora plans better handling of broken packages, Plasma to become Wayland-only, FreeBSD publishes status report |
| • Issue 1149 (2025-11-24): MX Linux 25, why are video drivers special, systemd experiments with musl, Debian Libre Live publishes new media, Xubuntu reviews website hack |
| • Issue 1148 (2025-11-17): Zorin OS 18, deleting a file with an unusual name, NetBSD experiments with sandboxing, postmarketOS unifies its documentation, OpenBSD refines upgrades, Canonical offers 15 years of support for Ubuntu |
| • Issue 1147 (2025-11-10): Fedora 43, the size and stability of the Linux kernel, Debian introducing Rust to APT, Redox ports web engine, Kubuntu website off-line, Mint creates new troubleshooting tools, FreeBSD improves reproducible builds, Flatpak development resumes |
| • Issue 1146 (2025-11-03): StartOS 0.4.0, testing piped commands, Ubuntu Unity seeks help, Canonical offers Ubuntu credentials, Red Hat partners with NVIDIA, SUSE to bundle AI agent with SLE 16 |
| • Issue 1145 (2025-10-27): Linux Mint 7 "LMDE", advice for new Linux users, AlmaLinux to offer Btrfs, KDE launches Plasma 6.5, Fedora accepts contributions written by AI, Ubuntu 25.10 fails to install automatic updates |
| • Issue 1144 (2025-10-20): Kubuntu 25.10, creating and restoring encrypted backups, Fedora team debates AI, FSF plans free software for phones, ReactOS addresses newer drivers, Xubuntu reacts to website attack |
| • Issue 1143 (2025-10-13): openSUSE 16.0 Leap, safest source for new applications, Redox introduces performance improvements, TrueNAS Connect available for testing, Flatpaks do not work on Ubuntu 25.10, Kamarada plans to switch its base, Solus enters new epoch, Frugalware discontinued |
| • Issue 1142 (2025-10-06): Linux Kamarada 15.6, managing ZIP files with SQLite, F-Droid warns of impact of Android lockdown, Alpine moves ahead with merged /usr, Cinnamon gets a redesigned application menu |
| • Issue 1141 (2025-09-29): KDE Linux and GNOME OS, finding mobile flavours of Linux, Murena to offer phones with kill switches, Redox OS running on a smartphone, Artix drops GNOME |
| • Issue 1140 (2025-09-22): NetBSD 10.1, avoiding AI services, AlmaLinux enables CRB repository, Haiku improves disk access performance, Mageia addresses service outage, GNOME 49 released, Linux introduces multikernel support |
| • Issue 1139 (2025-09-15): EasyOS 7.0, Linux and central authority, FreeBSD running Plasma 6 on Wayland, GNOME restores X11 support temporarily, openSUSE dropping BCacheFS in new kernels |
| • Issue 1138 (2025-09-08): Shebang 25.8, LibreELEC 12.2.0, Debian GNU/Hurd 2025, the importance of software updates, AerynOS introduces package sets, postmarketOS encourages patching upstream, openSUSE extends Leap support, Debian refreshes Trixie media |
| • Issue 1137 (2025-09-01): Tribblix 0m37, malware scanners flagging Linux ISO files, KDE introduces first-run setup wizard, CalyxOS plans update prior to infrastructure overhaul, FreeBSD publishes status report |
| • Issue 1136 (2025-08-25): CalyxOS 6.8.20, distros for running containers, Arch Linux website under attack,illumos Cafe launched, CachyOS creates web dashboard for repositories |
| • Issue 1135 (2025-08-18): Debian 13, Proton, WINE, Wayland, and Wayback, Debian GNU/Hurd 2025, KDE gets advanced Liquid Glass, Haiku improves authentication tools |
| • Issue 1134 (2025-08-11): Rhino Linux 2025.3, thoughts on malware in the AUR, Fedora brings hammered websites back on-line, NetBSD reveals features for version 11, Ubuntu swaps some command line tools for 25.10, AlmaLinux improves NVIDIA support |
| • Issue 1133 (2025-08-04): Expirion Linux 6.0, running Plasma on Linux Mint, finding distros which support X11, Debian addresses 22 year old bug, FreeBSD discusses potential issues with pkgbase, CDE ported to OpenBSD, Btrfs corruption bug hitting Fedora users, more malware found in Arch User Repository |
| • Issue 1132 (2025-07-28): deepin 25, wars in the open source community, proposal to have Fedora enable Flathub repository, FreeBSD plans desktop install option, Wayback gets its first release |
| • Issue 1131 (2025-07-21): HeliumOS 10.0, settling on one distro, Mint plans new releases, Arch discovers malware in AUR, Plasma Bigscreen returns, Clear Linux discontinued |
| • Issue 1130 (2025-07-14): openSUSE MicroOS and RefreshOS, sharing aliases between computers, Bazzite makes Bazaar its default Flatpak store, Alpine plans Wayback release, Wayland and X11 benchmarked, Red Hat offers additional developer licenses, openSUSE seeks feedback from ARM users, Ubuntu 24.10 reaches the end of its life |
| • Issue 1129 (2025-07-07): GLF OS Omnislash, the worst Linux distro, Alpine introduces Wayback, Fedora drops plans to stop i686 support, AlmaLinux builds EPEL repository for older CPUs, Ubuntu dropping existing RISC-V device support, Rhino partners with UBports, PCLinuxOS recovering from website outage |
| • Issue 1128 (2025-06-30): AxOS 25.06, AlmaLinux OS 10.0, transferring Flaptak bundles to off-line computers, Ubuntu to boost Intel graphics performance, Fedora considers dropping i686 packages, SDesk switches from SELinux to AppArmor |
| • Issue 1127 (2025-06-23): LastOSLinux 2025-05-25, most unique Linux distro, Haiku stabilises, KDE publishes Plasma 6.4, Arch splits Plasma packages, Slackware infrastructure migrating |
| • Issue 1126 (2025-06-16): SDesk 2025.05.06, renewed interest in Ubuntu Touch, a BASIC device running NetBSD, Ubuntu dropping X11 GNOME session, GNOME increases dependency on systemd, Google holding back Pixel source code, Nitrux changing its desktop, EFF turns 35 |
| • Issue 1125 (2025-06-09): RHEL 10, distributions likely to survive a decade, Murena partners with more hardware makers, GNOME tests its own distro on real hardware, Redox ports GTK and X11, Mint provides fingerprint authentication |
| • Issue 1124 (2025-06-02): Picking up a Pico, tips for protecting privacy, Rhino tests Plasma desktop, Arch installer supports snapshots, new features from UBports, Ubuntu tests monthly snapshots |
| • Issue 1123 (2025-05-26): CRUX 3.8, preventing a laptop from sleeping, FreeBSD improves laptop support, Fedora confirms GNOME X11 session being dropped, HardenedBSD introduces Rust in userland build, KDE developing a virtual machine manager |
| • Issue 1122 (2025-05-19): GoboLinux 017.01, RHEL 10.0 and Debian 12 updates, openSUSE retires YaST, running X11 apps on Wayland |
| • Issue 1121 (2025-05-12): Bluefin 41, custom file manager actions, openSUSE joins End of 10 while dropping Deepin desktop, Fedora offers tips for building atomic distros, Ubuntu considers replacing sudo with sudo-rs |
| • Issue 1120 (2025-05-05): CachyOS 250330, what it means when a distro breaks, Kali updates repository key, Trinity receives an update, UBports tests directory encryption, Gentoo faces losing key infrastructure |
| • Issue 1119 (2025-04-28): Ubuntu MATE 25.04, what is missing from Linux, CachyOS ships OCCT, Debian enters soft freeze, Fedora discusses removing X11 session from GNOME, Murena plans business services, NetBSD on a Wii |
| • Issue 1118 (2025-04-21): Fedora 42, strange characters in Vim, Nitrux introduces new package tools, Fedora extends reproducibility efforts, PINE64 updates multiple devices running Debian |
| • Issue 1117 (2025-04-14): Shebang 25.0, EndeavourOS 2025.03.19, running applications from other distros on the desktop, Debian gets APT upgrade, Mint introduces OEM options for LMDE, postmarketOS packages GNOME 48 and COSMIC, Redox testing USB support |
| • Issue 1116 (2025-04-07): The Sense HAT, Android and mobile operating systems, FreeBSD improves on laptops, openSUSE publishes many new updates, Fedora appoints new Project Leader, UBports testing VoLTE |
| • Full list of all issues |
| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
|
| Random Distribution | 
Flatcar Container Linux
Flatcar Container Linux is a container-optimized operating system based on Gentoo Linux. It is a minimal operating system image which includes only the tools needed to run containers and it supports all of the popular methods for running containers. The distribution ships an immutable filesystem and includes automatic atomic updates. Flatcar Container Linux runs on most cloud providers, virtualization platforms and bare metal servers.
Status: Active
|
| TUXEDO |
TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite
Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
Learn more about our full service package and all benefits from buying at TUXEDO.
|
| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
|
|
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
