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1 • Archman (by Linuxista on 2020-12-21 00:17:40 GMT from United States)
Graphical frontends for pkg mgmt on Arch are unnecessary and counterproductive anyway.
2 • Where will you go now that ... (by LiuYan on 2020-12-21 01:24:45 GMT from China)
☑ CentOS Stream -- maybe, or maybe not
✅ Debian -- it meets my requirement: lots of packages in official repository
☐ FreeBSD -- the license is good, but it needs longer learning curve
☑ Oracle Linux -- maybe, or maybe not
...
3 • Package Management GUI, dependencies (by Fossilizing Dinosaur on 2020-12-21 01:57:28 GMT from United States)
Octopi and Pamac come to mind … quickly. Artix has those; doesn't Void too?
(@1 - OK, so you're no Steve Jobs.)
…
Re: "… a huge list of dependencies …" - were any of these marked "optional"?
Was it possible to avoid unnecessary (related) packages?
If an unnecessary package was selected for removal, did it try to yank needed packages as well?
4 • Archman (by Tech in San Diego on 2020-12-21 02:46:22 GMT from United States)
1) To UEFI or not to UEFI. I wish there was some standardization or auto-detect feature that we could all agree on.
2) Community vs. proprietary based repo's would help. I prefer the old reliable command line.
3) Virtualbox used to be my go-to app for testing distro's. Over the past year and a half, maybe longer, I have noticed that distro's running in VB have had performance issues and introduced challenges not related to the distro.
4) That "phaser" sound on boot wasn't a phaser. It was a subliminal message. :~)
Happy Holidays to All and may 2021 be better than 2020!
5 • Arch pkg mgmt (by WhoDon'tKnowSheet on 2020-12-21 03:04:44 GMT from Canada)
@1, "Graphical frontends for pkg mgmt on Arch are unnecessary and counterproductive anyway."
Many things are unnecessary: air conditioning, auto transmissions, soap, perfume, and so on, even Linux itself. But it's sure nice to have them if you want them. "Counterproductive" depends on who is doing the producing. In effect, you've disguised an opinion as a fact. You could have just said: "I don' like graphical frontends," which is your privilege.
As for Archman, seems it may be better not to rush things out the door. I've tried Archman before, and it was okay. These days I use pretty much the same system, but it's Manjaro, which hits the sweetspot between bleeding-edge and stability. Pamac works well, including "Categories", almost as well as Synaptic on Debian. Discover is not included.
6 • Archman & Others (by c00ter on 2020-12-21 03:18:54 GMT from United States)
Yet Another Easy Arch Installer. I trialed Archman a few months back. Most bring little to the table but themselves. There are a few exceptions, such as Garuda. I find the Calamares graphical installer limited in configurability. For a script that is superior to any Calamares install routine, I recommend Archfi. But superior to all is the way it is supposed to be, as recommended by Archlinux.
Regards to all. Stay safe and guard your data.
7 • using a gui to install arch and/or arch based distros (by Brad on 2020-12-21 03:45:08 GMT from United States)
Do people still brag about installing arch the command line way while having bamboo under their finger & toenails anymore? Just asking for a friend...
8 • @3 - Void (by Hoos on 2020-12-21 03:52:58 GMT from Singapore)
Void is not Arch-based and does not have pamac.
It does have octoxbps, which is the octopi variant that uses their package management backend, xbps.
9 • Where will you go now that CentOS Linux is being discontinued? (by Dan on 2020-12-21 07:43:00 GMT from Germany)
I have started to move to a mix of Debian and Ubuntu a few years back, as my developers are more happy with those system as it's closer to their dev machines.
I guess now it's time to kill the last few CentOS around and fully move them to Debian.
I can't say I am sad or I'll miss much honestly, Debian is amazing and Ubuntu give us the commercial support in the few systems we need it.
I wish APT had transactions as DNF/YUM, but using ansible with everything it's not a big deal.
10 • Archman (by Bob on 2020-12-21 07:50:09 GMT from United States)
I've been running Archman Xfce for some time now and am completely happy with it. Originally, on a spare hard drive, I installed four Arch xfce distros to compare each on a daily basis. Manjaro, Arco, Endeavour, and Archman. After 30 days, Archman was the winner for me. Manjaro, Arco, and Endeavour had problems throughout the month, whereas Archman presented no problems what-so-ever. (Your results may vary.)
11 • Manjaro and Pekwm (by Any on 2020-12-21 07:51:30 GMT from Spain)
Personally I prefer more conservative distros but the last week I tried Manjaro and I can say I liked it more than my previous attempts, but when I install prism I can not log in to it. As my daily driver I want a distro with KDE and no systemd. The last candidate is Q4OS. Or maybe I will try any BSD for that.
12 • And what about Oracle Linux? (by Microlinux on 2020-12-21 08:11:33 GMT from France)
If you want a free-as-in-beer RHEL clone, you have two options: Oracle Linux or Springdale/PUIAS. My company's currently moving its servers to OL, which is "CentOS done right". Here's a blog article about the subject:
https://blog.microlinux.fr/migration-centos-oracle-linux/
Currently Rocky Linux is not much more than a README file on Github and a handful of Slack (ew!) discussion channels.
Each version of OL is supported for a 10-year cycle. Ubuntu has five years of support. And Debian's support cycle (one year after subsequent release) is unusable for production servers.
13 • @11, KDE, systemd (by Justme on 2020-12-21 08:25:45 GMT from United States)
"I want a distro with KDE and no systemd. The last candidate is Q4OS."
Q4OS has systemd. You might try MX19 KDE, which is based on Debian minus systemd.
14 • Discover (by Alan on 2020-12-21 08:52:49 GMT from Croatia)
Just install packagekit-qt5 package and Discover will work just fine, logout and reload repositories data if needed and you're good to go.
15 • KDE NOSYSTEMD (by Hank on 2020-12-21 10:09:12 GMT from France)
You might try MX19 KDE, which is based on Debian minus systemd.
MX has systemD, you can boot without it being active..
16 • @11 KDE system of choice (by kc1di on 2020-12-21 10:30:52 GMT from United States)
I run MX-19 KDE, You have a choice of Systemd or not. a normal boot will boot in non systemd. It's good and solid and has the tools I need for daily work. Give it a try I think you'll like it.
17 • @11 KDE without systemD choice (by Pawan on 2020-12-21 11:53:33 GMT from India)
Devuan provides KDE and is most prominant Linux distribution without systemD (completely removes systemD, not only avoids it for init but also for service management, completely removed from OS) and it is one of the most stable and light weight too (no unwanted packages and high performance). I am using it on both laptop and desktop and very pleased with it. You can try.
18 • CentOS mode change of distribution (by Gerhard Goetzhaber on 2020-12-21 12:57:35 GMT from Austria)
My personal OS for everything what may be called daily work has become OpenSUSE Leap for a few years. By now, Leap has outdistanced CentOS as well as RHEL as it's kernel and actual software are a lot closer to the current ones but that way after all SUSE still prevents incompatibilities between proven hardware and your system as, however, may often surprisingly happen with many up2date distributions, e.g. dysfunction of printers whenever a modern distro (first and foremost Fedora) comes with a brand new version of CUPS and a downgrade of such deeply integrated libraries is completely illusive. I hate that!
Besides SUSE, I've still be using CentOS as a reserve, and for that I think Stream will be good enough, too. Ubuntu and Debian (or systems nearer to the pure Debian, respectively) may hardly reach the reliability of any dedicated EL (except Oracle which will always be a nogo for any true NERDs) ... ; )
19 • @Jesse on CentOS: (by dragonmouth on 2020-12-21 13:11:04 GMT from United States)
"There is no rush and I recommend waiting a bit for the dust to settle on the situation before leaping to an alternative. "
For private users there may be plenty of time to find an alternative. However, corporate IT departments are not like jet skis able to turn on a dime. They are more like supertankers or aircraft carriers that take miles to make a turn. By the time all the committees meet and come to some decision, by the time all the upper managers who don't know what the heck they are talking about expound their opinions and by the time the CentOS replacement is deployed, a year will be gone. For corporations, maybe it is not a time to PANIC, yet, but it is high time to start looking for the O/S that will replace CentOS.
20 • @13,16 and 17 (by Any on 2020-12-21 13:22:48 GMT from Spain)
Thank you all. MX is not my distro. I do not know what but something repels me every time I try it. Last night I downloaded Antix core, base and full editions but it does not seem (to me) the right distro for a modern PC with plenty of RAM. Devuan - I also gave it a try. But if only I had a Slackware with the lazy "apt install" ...
Now I am too lazy to slackbuild everything I need. I hope Patrick Volkerding will surpass the problems he has and he and his team release a new version soon. Something makes me beleive that they are preparing big changes and why not a more comfortable (read lazy) package manager.
21 • CentOS and Kwort page (by cykodrone on 2020-12-21 13:25:58 GMT from Germany)
Yawn, gee, yet another corp executing the 'swallow and kill' tactic. There's been an epidemic of this tactic in the IT/software world (and other industries) for decades, you're just now getting outraged? *facepalm*
Subscribing is enabling this behavior, so is making accounts on certain monopoly platforms and giving them your life's info for their NSA and consumer demographic predictive matrix algorithms.
Vote with your wallets/purses, and your privacy.
Dear DW, on your Kwort (its main distro) page, the (based on) CRUX link takes one to your 'based on' search. Isn't it supposed to take me to CRUX's DW distro page? Both CRUX and Kwort look like pretty cool roll up your sleeves and scrape some knuckles do-it-yourself bloatless back to basics sanity. :)
22 • What to use... (by Friar Tux on 2020-12-21 13:56:59 GMT from Canada)
I voted 'not using CentOS'. While I like the concept behind the (original) CentOS, I found it to have a lot of the same issues as Fedora. Too high maintenance for me. I picked the Debian, Ubuntu, Mint line which hasn't (yet) presented me with any issues. (Have been using now for five years. (Using Mint, that is.) Criminities, I sound like a druggy.)
@19 (dragonmouth) Love the analogies. And absolutely true. It will take a year or two for the big corps to change direction.
23 • @20 KDE without systemd (by Andy Prough on 2020-12-21 14:36:25 GMT from United States)
If you tried MX KDE version and didn't like it, you should try Artix, which is Arch without systemd. They have KDE versions available for download. With Artix, you've got to choose your init system - openrc, runit, or S6. I found the openrc version was the most stable and best supported.
Another one is PCLinuxOS - that will give you a nice Plasma desktop without systemd. PCLinuxOS has a big following - users love it and stick with it for many years.
24 • CentOS and search (by Jesse on 2020-12-21 14:57:32 GMT from Canada)
@19: "For private users there may be plenty of time to find an alternative. However, corporate IT departments are not like jet skis able to turn on a dime. "
Yes, that is because big corporate IT departments have built-in processes which prevent them from panicking and doing some knee-jerk reaction. They don't need to take my "don't panic, just wait" advice, because it's hardwired into their environment. The outcome is exactly the same (slow decision making, lots of evaluation, weighing pros and cons) but it's automatic with them while smaller groups and individuals don't have that fail-safe which is who my advice is directed at.
@21: "Dear DW, on your Kwort (its main distro) page, the (based on) CRUX link takes one to your 'based on' search. Isn't it supposed to take me to CRUX's DW distro page?"
No, the fields on each distro's information page have always been shortcuts to the Search page to help people find similar/related projects.
25 • MX Linus and systemd (by Chris Whelan on 2020-12-21 15:00:37 GMT from United Kingdom)
@13
Just to clarify, all versions of MX Linux use sysvinit to boot by default, but allow packages that need systemd present to work using systemd-shim.
In order to cover those situations where booting with systemd is mandated, such as running Snaps, there is a GRUB option to use systemd as the init.
26 • A few companies are already promoting their alternatives to CentOS with openSUSE (by chris on 2020-12-21 15:25:59 GMT from United Kingdom)
openSUSE ? then asking for support? good luck with some megalomaniacs - esp moderators of- their forum that behave like they own it.
27 • @26 openSUSE forum (by Andy Prough on 2020-12-21 15:54:43 GMT from United States)
> openSUSE ? then asking for support? good luck with some megalomaniacs - esp moderators of- their forum that behave like they own it.
My experience for many years with opensuse forums was quite the opposite - very helpful people. The SUSE engineers are frequent contributors, and I've seen them on many occasions purchase a piece of hardware to test it and try to help a user overcome a problem with it. It is one of the best forums for any distro I've ever seen, quite possibly the best.
28 • Archman (by Jérôme on 2020-12-21 16:32:58 GMT from France)
A distro with a national flag as a logo ? It's a no-go for me ! Keep nationalism out of GNU/Linux.
29 • CentOS (by David on 2020-12-21 17:10:18 GMT from United Kingdom)
I dropped CentOS a year ago when my hard drive died and I needed a new installation. At the time, Xfce was not yet ready for CentOS and the team were expressing frustration at the extent that Red Hat was getting tied to Gnome. A sad day: I've used the Red Hat family since Red Hat 9. I moved to PCLinuxOX — not an option I could vote for in your poll (no "other" category) — with some uncertainly over whether a rolling release would be stable. It is!
30 • "This looks like the vendor equivalent..." (by Ricardo on 2020-12-21 18:06:49 GMT from Argentina)
... of a cartoon character sawing off the tree branch they are sitting on."
Jesse, I couldn't have articulated it better.
I'm stealing that phrase :)
Cheers and happy holidays to everyone!
31 • @11 KDE and no systemd (by Ricardo on 2020-12-21 18:26:50 GMT from Argentina)
Yet another alternative would be the upcoming Slackware 15.0, of which you can try the development (-current) version easily thanks to AleinBOB's excellent liveslak project:
https://alien.slackbook.org/blog/slackware-live-edition/
https://docs.slackware.com/slackware:liveslak
I'm using it as my daily driver and, despite some churn from time to time, it's been a very stable experience.
Cheers!
32 • Poll Accuracy (by Dr. Dave on 2020-12-21 20:21:09 GMT from United States)
At the time I am writing this, the current poll indicates 34% of the respondents are currently using CentOS. Of course, I don't have a crystal ball sitting here, but this result seems highly dubious. Due to the recent news, maybe there are more 'irregular' readers from the CentOS tribe than usual and folks who administrate it professionally, but my guess is that people who don't even use CentOS are stuffing the vote to enhance the perception of their personal preferences. I realize it's just a DW poll, but it still made me raise an eyebrow-- though I suppose we should all be used to shady voting practices by now. :P
33 • CentOS (by aaro on 2020-12-21 21:25:53 GMT from Venezuela)
I think we are losing the prespective of the real centos sutation impact here. All this situation has an effect mainly at server/enterprise level. Not at a desktop level. Because the userbase using centos as a desktop is minimal. The spot is at the production server / enterprise level. Just think all major hosting companies that have used centos as the underlying platform for many years. All the institutions/business running their systems/servers on centos, that's the taget of the issue here. And of course, these servers need an stable, predictable and long time supported os.
Debian is what comes closer to that as centos dissapear, yet still is a great loss. I hope rocky linux gets all the support it needs to become the next centos and hope the leaders of this new project take some preventive actions to avoid another sale to Red Hat or any other corporation in the future to avoid the story to repeat in a few years.
34 • Did you try MX Linux or just Antix? (by Ted H in Minnesota on 2020-12-21 21:33:07 GMT from United States)
DW Commenter #20 (Any from Spain)- MX Linux and Antix are quite different animals. I like MX Linux and am not comfortable with Antix. Did you try Antix and not MX Linux? For me, MX Linux is like a comfortable old shoe, and "thinks"/does things the way I do, and pretty much like to do them. The only thing I don't like is that when one updates it is all-or-nothing - one cannot uncheck the updates one does not want!
Ted
35 • @34: (by dragonmouth on 2020-12-21 22:18:04 GMT from United States)
Are you using Synaptic to update/upgrade your software? Synaptic allows you to choose only the packages you want to update.
36 • CentOS and the Poll (by Otis on 2020-12-21 22:48:11 GMT from United States)
@32 CentOS currently gets over 500 hits per day here at DW. So.. the high percentage of current users being attracted to that poll seems other than "shady," to me.
37 • Distro for "Any" from Spain (by Somewhat Reticent on 2020-12-22 03:09:04 GMT from United States)
@11 - Have you tried Artix Linux? [See ArtixLinux.org ]
They offer many choices - init, DE, even some loaded images from the community.
38 • CentOS (by bucklemyjandals on 2020-12-22 04:08:08 GMT from New Zealand)
So I have not used CentOS, but understand it to be a freebie RHEL more for servers. Most of the distros we commonly know are GUI aimed at desktop use. So CentOS going away is RH/IBM trying to herd people towards paid support. Maybe they can offer a really cheap tier for non-profits and small businesses. Otherwise the alternatives list gets interesting, especially as these users would like something stable and reliable.
Don't know if MZ, OpenSUSE or Artix or others would fit the bill. Maybe. Much of the discussion seems fixated on systemd (again) instead of features that allow the work (of the business / oragnisation) to get done. The OS is a platform for the tools, no more.
39 • Centos (by David on 2020-12-22 04:29:46 GMT from United States)
I was using Centos 8.2 on an older, desktop home computer. When Centos dropped long term support on version 8, I was a little peeved, but not a whole lot, since it is free, anyway. Out of curiosity I installed Scientific Linux 7.9 on the same computer, and it works better that Centos 8. Then I tried installing SL 7.9 on my old laptop -- it even worked on that!
Previously, when I had tried to install Centos 8 on the laptop, an old Dell inspiron 1501, the graphics were garbage --the screen displayed kind of a color mosaic --and the keyboard/everthing else was locked up. I also tried Centos 7.9 on it and installation from minimal dvd produced a bunch of errors and then froze part way through.
I will stick with Scientific Linux 7 for now. In 2024 I will worry about which distro to migrate to. Note: Scientific Linux websites states that they are going to reconsider (in 1st quarter of 2021) whether they will produce a clone of rhel version 8. Previously, they stated that they would not.
40 • Scientific Linux (by Simon on 2020-12-22 05:36:53 GMT from New Zealand)
It's a pity this distro (Scientific, a RHEL clone developed by particle physicists for their labs) decided to shut up shop and tell all its users to migrate to CentOS. Some of them will be wishing they hadn't done that now, although I can see it made sense at the time as they were basically duplicating what CentOS was doing. As I recall it was a good free RHEL clone, though a little slower to do its rebuild of each RHEL source release than CentOS. I wondered if Scientific developers might be thinking of starting it up again, since they basically only stopped because CentOS was there (and it ain't any more): that's good news, David (#39), that they've said explicitly that they're considering it. Scientific would be my preferred RHEL clone (over e.g. Oracle) if they did resurrect it.
41 • Thank you everyone (by Any on 2020-12-22 08:30:05 GMT from Spain)
And I apologize for not expressing me in a more clear way. I know MX and Antix are different distros.
@31 Ricardo from Argentina, I wrote in an upper comment that now I am too lazy for using Slackware for my daily driver. Despite Slackware being my favourite distro I prefer another one with a package manager that does not make me work too much ( for everyday use) :) Anyway I almost always have Slackware on a partition.
@37 Thank you for your suggestion. I tried Artix last night and it looks promising.
One weird thing - I tried installing PekWM in Manjaro and Artix and inspite installing correctly it is not possible to log in PekWM. I will try with another Arch based distro to check if it has something to do.
42 • Arch the Arch way... this again? (by Ghost Sixtyseven on 2020-12-22 10:22:37 GMT from United Kingdom)
@6 'But superior to all is the way it is supposed to be, as recommended by Archlinux.'
Strange... for the first decade (nearly) of it's existence Arch Linux had a graphical installer in the form of the Arch Installer Framework. The command-line install only became 'the Arch way' a good while after Arch arrived.
43 • Archman (by OstroL on 2020-12-22 11:16:19 GMT from Poland)
Archman is good. Installs fast and you can get a pure Arch system with few tweaks. Only, it has a religious turn, the Archman icon and some wallpapers.
44 • "Lazy" Package Manager (by whoKnows on 2020-12-22 14:37:39 GMT from Switzerland)
@20 • @13,16 and 17 (by Any)
"Now I am too lazy to slackbuild everything I need. I hope Patrick Volkerding will surpass the problems he has and he and his team release a new version soon. Something makes me beleive that they are preparing big changes and why not a more comfortable (read lazy) package manager."
Why exactly?
Salix does excatly that.
"Linux for the lazy Slacker."
It has Gslapt - Slackware 'Synaptic'.
https://www.salixos.org/
45 • @ 27 Open Suse Forums (by OstroL on 2020-12-22 15:59:57 GMT from Poland)
I would agree with Andy Prough that OpenSuse Forum has the most helpful people. They'd go out of the way to help others.
46 • Salix (by Any on 2020-12-22 16:36:28 GMT from Spain)
@44 I used Salix from 2014 to 2016 or 2017. But the last release 14.2 is almost 4 or 5 years old. And I think somewhere in the recent years slapt, Gslapt and Sourcery started to give me problems or some of them were excluded from the distro or was it something with the repos? Also the 14.2 version of Salix lacks a KDE release while the previous versions had a KDE release. I do not know but I was under the impression that Salix started being a no go for me back then.
I have tried and used Slackel as well. It looks like AlienBob's work is the only viable way these days for a up to date Slackware.
Maybe I want something for the too lazy slacker :)
47 • Slackware (by whoKnows on 2020-12-22 17:05:00 GMT from Switzerland)
@46 • Salix (by Any)
"But the last release 14.2 is almost 4 or 5 years old."
Well ... as well as Slackware itself.
Kinda simple:
Salix is a better Slackware - one of the easiest installers ever, better package management, newer versions of some SW, but still 1:1 compatible.
Slackel is kinda "Salix testing" - they even do the things together.
If you have a problem with Salix, then it's a prob with Slack.
By the way, the latest Salix isn't 14.2, but 14.2.1.
48 • Scientific Linux (by R. Cain on 2020-12-22 17:35:14 GMT from United States)
Definitely going to Scientific Linux if it gets re-started.
49 • Why exactly?? (by whoKnows on 2020-12-22 18:14:20 GMT from Switzerland)
@48 • Scientific Linux (by R. Cain)
"Definitely going to Scientific Linux if it gets re-started."
What does prevents you to use Springdale?
It's Scientific + a better repository.
50 • Moving from Centos (by Ted on 2020-12-22 20:55:37 GMT from Australia)
Where I move to will depend on pihole support as my server was running that.
Unsure if they will add a new distro to support or I will just move to Fedora.
51 • Personal opinion only. (by R. Cain on 2020-12-22 21:07:24 GMT from United States)
@49--
"...What does prevents you to use Springdale?...
Personal opinion only.
Springdale may be, and probably is, a very fine distribution, but...
After all the years of using Linux, and experiencing first-hand the hobby mentality that has taken over (users AND distro developers) starting about six years ago, I prefer to use a distribution which has all the earmarks of (make absolutely certain that you read this as "...appears to be, to ME...") being developed AND MAINTAINED by a professional organization.
Simply start with the websites of each distribution. It's as easy as that.
52 • Springdale vs. CentOS (by whoKnows on 2020-12-23 05:39:01 GMT from Switzerland)
@51 • Personal opinion only. (by R. Cain)
"Personal opinion only. [...] After all the years of using Linux, and experiencing first-hand the hobby mentality that has taken over [...], I prefer to use a distribution which has all the earmarks of [...] being developed AND MAINTAINED by a professional organization."
Yeah, your answer is exactly what I expected it to be.
The thing with Springdale is as following: it's maintained by the very professional team of IT specialists at the Institute for Advanced Study (Princeton University) for the own needs. That's why there's no fancy website, RHEL Wiki, live ISOs and such.
They also maintain several other repositories for add-on packages (computing, unsupported [with audio/video codecs] ...).
With other words, if you're a professional who needs an RHEL clone, you'll be fine with it; if you're a hobbyist who needs a how-to on everything and anything, you can still use the knowledge base of RHEL/CentOS/Oracle ...
If you're 'small business' who needs a professional support, you'd get RHEL - unlike CentOS, Springdale is not a commercial distribution selling you support and schooling. Springdale is made by professional and for the professionals.
https://www.ias.edu/math/computing/Springdale-Linux
https://researchcomputing.princeton.edu/faq/what-is-a-cluster
53 • CentOS dependency (by whoKnows on 2020-12-23 05:52:27 GMT from Switzerland)
"Top companies that rely on CentOS Linux include Disney, GoDaddy, RackSpace, Toyota, and Verizon. Other important technology companies build products around CentOS. These include GE, Riverbed, F5, Juniper, and Fortinet. [...] Amazon Web Services (AWS) doesn't make a point of it, but the Amazon Linux AMI, which runs on the Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud (Amazon EC2), is also a CentOS-based RHEL clone."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/where-centos-linux-users-can-go-from-here/ar-BB1bX4Ts
"Facebook Linux was based originally on CentOS [...] the Facebook gets its stuff certified by Red Hat Labs [...] they run their own modified version of an operating system."
http://www.internetnews.com/blog/skerner/facebook-linux-CentOS.html
54 • Pamac (by Ankleface Wroughlandmire on 2020-12-23 13:34:19 GMT from Ecuador)
I very much support the development of friendly frontends for package managers, especially ones that interface directly and don't require the abominable PackageKit layer. But I wonder if Jesse's issue with excessive dependencies in Pamac was actually not specific to Archman. Recently I helped a friend install some simple program in Manjaro with Pamac, and it also pulled in a completely ridiculous amount of dependencies. Might be something to look into fixing.
55 • CentOS (by Paul Vandenberg on 2020-12-23 14:30:02 GMT from United States)
Red Hat lost me a long time ago. Fedora was too bleeding edge and then it became too GNOME centric. Not trying to bash GNOME. I get that people like it. Just not for me. I am quite happy with Debian now.
56 • Pamac, @54 (by JustSo on 2020-12-23 14:37:05 GMT from Singapore)
Over two years on Manjaro, and haven't encountered the problems mentioned with Pamac.
57 • Arch/KDE (by Otis on 2020-12-23 15:44:50 GMT from United States)
Interesting seeing the Arch/KDE (Plasma) portion of the conversation. Those two elements of the Linux Universe don't fully reconcile with me. I know I know we need (and have) lots of diversity in Linux/BSD.. I'm even seeing KDE stuff in FreeBSD's repos and thus in my go-to GhostBSD.
Why shouldn't we? I'm not asking that but yes I'm having trouble seeing those philosophies merge.. thinking XFCE/OpenBox as ideal and now yep I'm using Mate because Ghost spins around that.
Please understand my feelings/point having to do with the whole Linux/BSD lean toward more and more code, more and more.. just more. Ugh.. Windows does that. Are we finding out over the decades that Windows had it right, from the beginning, by loading loading loading and then updating the load with another load whether we liked it or not?
58 • ReddevilHat strikes again (by Sébastien on 2020-12-23 22:24:21 GMT from France)
6 years ago CentOS felt as a benefit merging RH. At that time (you can still read it on their webpages) it was supposed to be a major step for open source community. Well now it looks like it will benefit RH for sure at lower cost. At the end,the highest price has to be paid by the whole community and betrayed CentOS true believers in particular. I was rencently planning to move a couple Debian servers to CentOS (the 10 years support was really appealling to me), I am glad I did not switch yet. Still, I feel sincerely sorry for all CentOS users today. Switching a bunch of critical servers in prod in such a short time is not piece of cake. Thank you Redhat for the good time.
59 • CENTOS? As if I care. (by StanB on 2020-12-24 01:52:19 GMT from United States)
I can care less about the CENTOS shaft. I use my trusty & far more secure OpenBSD for servers, firewalls, routers, & built-in VPN.
60 • alternatives to CentOS (by Jim Pazarena on 2020-12-24 15:46:09 GMT from Canada)
I find it odd that there are few people suggesting FreeBSD . Correct , it's -not- a Linux derivative , but it's rock solid , and has a super community with plenty of forums for assistance .
61 • Where do I go now that CentOS Linux is gone? Check our list (by JoeFootball on 2020-12-24 17:13:12 GMT from United States)
A related article from Ars Technica ...
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/12/centos-linux-is-gone-but-its-refugees-have-alternatives/
62 • I know were we'll go (by Soccerman on 2020-12-25 02:47:27 GMT from El Salvador)
I was thinking of waiting for Rocky Linux, but history will be repeated, Debian is a Great option, but Systemd based distros becomes slower and slower with time(the windows way), therefore, going Devuan is the best idea.
63 • Times change (by pkwright on 2020-12-25 15:26:22 GMT from United States)
First off, as a new mobile modern age has pushed our desktop and server experience more the the cloud, the monetization of those moves has been on the horizon for those in the know.
Second, it's a shame, really many folks have helped red-hat continue as a (mostly reliable upstream enterprise class platform).
next, mom and pops or SOHO's will be fine because of their adaptability, it is very hard to invest your community effort into open source when IBM wants to lock us in again sorry IBM good try that includes you oracle.
Now, for others that have invested time and effort into the system it's kinda slap in the face, and Fork You, I agree with Jesse.
Finlay, focusing on a failing ecosystem is not many are willing to risk, some of us saw this coming and moved away from that platform. Usual we can adapt and move from some transitional changes, yet this is big and stability that runs 90% of our services needs to be addressed by those with balls to prevent what this move would accomplish.
Respectfully ==Paul
64 • "best idea" ... (by Otis on 2020-12-25 19:38:01 GMT from United States)
@62 dang it BSD takes care of all that anxiety about systemd and the other bloaty-with-time worries as far as I can tell. GhostBSD and a few others are spearheading a charge into the face of The Enemy, making BSD palatable for those of us steeped in Linux as the only alternative to we know who.
65 • @36 unrealistic poll (by Dr. Dave on 2020-12-29 21:32:11 GMT from United States)
"CentOS currently gets over 500 hits per day here at DW"
Alright, let's assume the daily hit count actually means something..
Currently the poll indicates that 41% of respondents are CentOS users.
As of today, CentOS reports 526 daily hits.
The total number of hits for the Top 100 is 40587.
That means CentOS receives 1.3% of the Top 100's daily hits; a far cry from 41%.
As a comparison, the #1 position, MX Linux, has 3397 daily hits.
That means CentOS gets about 15% the amount of daily hits that MX Linux receives.
Given the recent news, I would expect a slightly higher concentration of CentOS users to have visited the poll, but not 30x the apparent level of interest indicated by daily hits.
Not that any of this matters. Like I said-- it's just a casual DW poll. Even if it were an official vote to choose a successor for CentOS, I wouldn't really care, because I have no interest in RedHat's family tree.
66 • CentOS (by azzorcist on 2020-12-30 02:15:23 GMT from Indonesia)
So basicly:
Fedora is sid.
CentOS is testing.
and RHEL is stable.
Prove that Debian development is right.
67 • @12 • And what about Oracle Linux? (by Microlinux (by zcatav on 2020-12-30 06:24:35 GMT from Turkey)
Debian has LTS and ExtendedLTS support:
https://wiki.debian.org/LTS
https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Extended
68 • Byebye, CentOS... (by Hugo Santanna on 2020-12-30 13:53:45 GMT from Brazil)
My choice for a server?
☐ Fedora/CentOS Stream -- never, ever
☐ SLES/RHEL/Oracle Linux -- not for my taste
☑ Devuan -- it fulfils my needs: rock-solid stability
✅ OpenBSD -- a system like no other
...
By the way, I'm now migrating to the holy land of the BSDs (GhostBSD XFCE for desktop, OpenBSD for server). The only place where I still keep a Linux distro is a pendrive with the lightning-fast Porteus LXDE with a couple of additional modules.
And I wish a happy, wonderful, glorious 2021 for all of you who love the freedom of choice. To make the New Year a pleasant reality, keep protecting you and your families against the SARS-CoV-2. For God's sake, use mask permanently, avoid agglomeration, and TAKE THE VACCINE.
Remember the danger is out there, now more than ever...
69 • @ 65 Dr Dave´s number crunching (by Barnabyh on 2020-12-30 15:34:01 GMT from Germany)
Of course you´re right with your quick calculation. It is highly unlikely that 41% of Distrowatch readers are CentOS users, so the poll is swayed by people who have an interest in CentOS in the first place.
Happy New Year everybody.
70 • Stream is a blessing (by Ista on 2020-12-31 22:25:18 GMT from United States)
I understand the tight spot people who depended on CentOS are in, but really this is a blessing. Honestly what RHEL sells as "stability" is a euphemism for "old and busted". This move moves Centos to a position closer to that occupied by OpenSuse Leap; Enterprise foundation without software from the previous decade. That's a big upgrade in absolute terms, and the only thing you lost is RHEL compatibility.
Number of Comments: 70
Display mode: DWW Only • Comments Only • Both DWW and Comments
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| • Issue 1147 (2025-11-10): Fedora 43, the size and stability of the Linux kernel, Debian introducing Rust to APT, Redox ports web engine, Kubuntu website off-line, Mint creates new troubleshooting tools, FreeBSD improves reproducible builds, Flatpak development resumes |
| • Issue 1146 (2025-11-03): StartOS 0.4.0, testing piped commands, Ubuntu Unity seeks help, Canonical offers Ubuntu credentials, Red Hat partners with NVIDIA, SUSE to bundle AI agent with SLE 16 |
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| • Issue 1127 (2025-06-23): LastOSLinux 2025-05-25, most unique Linux distro, Haiku stabilises, KDE publishes Plasma 6.4, Arch splits Plasma packages, Slackware infrastructure migrating |
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| • Issue 1125 (2025-06-09): RHEL 10, distributions likely to survive a decade, Murena partners with more hardware makers, GNOME tests its own distro on real hardware, Redox ports GTK and X11, Mint provides fingerprint authentication |
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| • Issue 1122 (2025-05-19): GoboLinux 017.01, RHEL 10.0 and Debian 12 updates, openSUSE retires YaST, running X11 apps on Wayland |
| • Issue 1121 (2025-05-12): Bluefin 41, custom file manager actions, openSUSE joins End of 10 while dropping Deepin desktop, Fedora offers tips for building atomic distros, Ubuntu considers replacing sudo with sudo-rs |
| • Issue 1120 (2025-05-05): CachyOS 250330, what it means when a distro breaks, Kali updates repository key, Trinity receives an update, UBports tests directory encryption, Gentoo faces losing key infrastructure |
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| • Issue 1118 (2025-04-21): Fedora 42, strange characters in Vim, Nitrux introduces new package tools, Fedora extends reproducibility efforts, PINE64 updates multiple devices running Debian |
| • Issue 1117 (2025-04-14): Shebang 25.0, EndeavourOS 2025.03.19, running applications from other distros on the desktop, Debian gets APT upgrade, Mint introduces OEM options for LMDE, postmarketOS packages GNOME 48 and COSMIC, Redox testing USB support |
| • Issue 1116 (2025-04-07): The Sense HAT, Android and mobile operating systems, FreeBSD improves on laptops, openSUSE publishes many new updates, Fedora appoints new Project Leader, UBports testing VoLTE |
| • Issue 1115 (2025-03-31): GrapheneOS 2025, the rise of portable package formats, MidnightBSD and openSUSE experiment with new package management features, Plank dock reborn, key infrastructure projects lose funding, postmarketOS to focus on reliability |
| • Issue 1114 (2025-03-24): Bazzite 41, checking which processes are writing to disk, Rocky unveils new Hardened branch, GNOME 48 released, generating images for the Raspberry Pi |
| • Issue 1113 (2025-03-17): MocaccinoOS 1.8.1, how to contribute to open source, Murena extends on-line installer, Garuda tests COSMIC edition, Ubuntu to replace coreutils with Rust alternatives, Chimera Linux drops RISC-V builds |
| • Issue 1112 (2025-03-10): Solus 4.7, distros which work with Secure Boot, UBports publishes bug fix, postmarketOS considers a new name, Debian running on Android |
| • Issue 1111 (2025-03-03): Orbitiny 0.01, the effect of Ubuntu Core Desktop, Gentoo offers disk images, elementary OS invites feature ideas, FreeBSD starts PinePhone Pro port, Mint warns of upcoming Firefox issue |
| • Issue 1110 (2025-02-24): iodeOS 6.0, learning to program, Arch retiring old repositories, openSUSE makes progress on reproducible builds, Fedora is getting more serious about open hardware, Tails changes its install instructions to offer better privacy, Murena's de-Googled tablet goes on sale |
| • Issue 1109 (2025-02-17): Rhino Linux 2025.1, MX Linux 23.5 with Xfce 4.20, replacing X.Org tools with Wayland tools, GhostBSD moving its base to FreeBSD -RELEASE, Redox stabilizes its ABI, UBports testing 24.04, Asahi changing its leadership, OBS in dispute with Fedora |
| • Issue 1108 (2025-02-10): Serpent OS 0.24.6, Aurora, sharing swap between distros, Peppermint tries Void base, GTK removinglegacy technologies, Red Hat plans more AI tools for Fedora, TrueNAS merges its editions |
| • Issue 1107 (2025-02-03): siduction 2024.1.0, timing tasks, Lomiri ported to postmarketOS, Alpine joins Open Collective, a new desktop for Linux called Orbitiny |
| • Issue 1106 (2025-01-27): Adelie Linux 1.0 Beta 6, Pop!_OS 24.04 Alpha 5, detecting whether a process is inside a virtual machine, drawing graphics to NetBSD terminal, Nix ported to FreeBSD, GhostBSD hosting desktop conference |
| • Issue 1105 (2025-01-20): CentOS 10 Stream, old Flatpak bundles in software centres, Haiku ports Iceweasel, Oracle shows off debugging tools, rsync vulnerability patched |
| • Issue 1104 (2025-01-13): DAT Linux 2.0, Silly things to do with a minimal computer, Budgie prepares Wayland only releases, SteamOS coming to third-party devices, Murena upgrades its base |
| • Issue 1103 (2025-01-06): elementary OS 8.0, filtering ads with Pi-hole, Debian testing its installer, Pop!_OS faces delays, Ubuntu Studio upgrades not working, Absolute discontinued |
| • Issue 1102 (2024-12-23): Best distros of 2024, changing a process name, Fedora to expand Btrfs support and releases Asahi Remix 41, openSUSE patches out security sandbox and donations from Bottles while ending support for Leap 15.5 |
| • Issue 1101 (2024-12-16): GhostBSD 24.10.1, sending attachments from the command line, openSUSE shows off GPU assignment tool, UBports publishes security update, Murena launches its first tablet, Xfce 4.20 released |
| • Issue 1100 (2024-12-09): Oreon 9.3, differences in speed, IPFire's new appliance, Fedora Asahi Remix gets new video drivers, openSUSE Leap Micro updated, Redox OS running Redox OS |
| • Issue 1099 (2024-12-02): AnduinOS 1.0.1, measuring RAM usage, SUSE continues rebranding efforts, UBports prepares for next major version, Murena offering non-NFC phone |
| • Issue 1098 (2024-11-25): Linux Lite 7.2, backing up specific folders, Murena and Fairphone partner in fair trade deal, Arch installer gets new text interface, Ubuntu security tool patched |
| • Issue 1097 (2024-11-18): Chimera Linux vs Chimera OS, choosing between AlmaLinux and Debian, Fedora elevates KDE spin to an edition, Fedora previews new installer, KDE testing its own distro, Qubes-style isolation coming to FreeBSD |
| • Issue 1096 (2024-11-11): Bazzite 40, Playtron OS Alpha 1, Tucana Linux 3.1, detecting Screen sessions, Redox imports COSMIC software centre, FreeBSD booting on the PinePhone Pro, LXQt supports Wayland window managers |
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GrapheneOS
GrapheneOS is a privacy and security focused mobile OS for Google's Pixel line of devices with Android app compatibility developed as a non-profit open source project. It's focused on the research and development of privacy and security technology including substantial improvements to sandboxing, exploit mitigations and the permission model. The app sandbox and other security boundaries are fortified. It was founded in 2014 and was formerly known as CopperheadOS.
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