 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 886, 5 October 2020 |
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Welcome to this year's 40th issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
One of the key components Linux users look at when selecting which distribution to run is the desktop environment. Some like the sleek simplicity of GNOME, others the flexibility of KDE Plasma, while others like the minimalism of LXDE. Another intriguing desktop choice is Deepin, a desktop interface that tries to offer an attractive interface with a familiar layout, and some custom utilities. This week we begin with a look at the deepin distribution and talk about its custom Deepin Desktop Environment. What do you think of the Deepin desktop, is it something you would like to run on your computers? Let us know if you are a Deepin Desktop Environment user in our Opinion Poll. In our News section we discuss the challenges in keeping the Cinnamon desktop packages in Debian's repositories along with efforts to port Wayland-based interfaces to the NetBSD operating system. Plus we report on plans to compress Fedora's kernel firmware in order to save disk space and talk about SolydXK's leadership change. We also report on Linux Mint building its own Chromium package and new work going into the UBports installer, including the ability to support multiple operating systems on Volla mobile devices. Then, in our Questions and Answers column we explore what makes one implementation of the init software more appealing than another. Plus we are pleased to share the releases of the past week and list the torrents we are seeding. We wish you all a wonderful week and happy reading!
Content:
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
deepin 20
deepin is a Debian-based distribution which develops and ships its own desktop interface and several desktop applications. The Deepin Desktop Environment is often praised for its appearance and the way it offers easy access to configuration options. The custom applications tend to be geared toward being simple and easy to navigate.
(I would like to say up front that, in an effort to avoid confusion, I will be referring to the distribution as a whole as "deepin" while the desktop interface will be "Deepin" or "Deepin desktop" in this review.)
The deepin 20 release announcement mentioned several new features and improvements to the distribution. Some of the highlights include changes to notifications, along with the ability to adjust (on a per application basis) which programs can display notifications, whether notifications appear on the lock screen, and if a sound should accompany notices.
The distribution offers multiple kernels with the 5.4 kernel being the default and 5.7 being available as an alternative. The distribution now includes a Device Manager utility to browse hardware information. Support for fingerprint recognition has also been added.
deepin 20 -- Getting a list of recent notifications
(full image size: 795kB, resolution: 1360x768 pixels)
deepin now ships with a new application called Draw for simple drawing and image editing. There is a joint screen video and image capture tool and the Cheese webcam utility is included now by default.
Adding to the list of new features, the App Store can now install software updates and there is a User Feedback tool for reporting issues. Rounding out the list we find there is a voice recording app for note taking and a font manager utility. I will touch on these later. Meanwhile, details on these features can be found in the release notes.
deepin is available for 64-bit (x86_64) machines exclusively. Its ISO file is a 2.6GB Download. By default, booting from this media launches us straight into the system installer.
Installing
deepin uses a graphical installer which walks us through just a few steps. We are asked to select our preferred language and to accept the project's license agreement. Then we are asked if the installer should take over the whole disk or set up a partition on the disk. It seems as though the partitioning options are limited and I could only find a way to add one partition for the operating system. There may be a way to add other filesystems for users' home directories and swap, but if so it was not immediately clear. The installer then quickly copies its packages to the hard drive and restarts the computer.
When the computer boots into our installed copy of deepin a graphical wizard walks us through some initial configuration steps. These include picking our keyboard layout, selecting our time zone from a map, and making up a username and password. We are also given the option of customizing the network settings. The wizard then reports it is "tuning" the system and, a few minutes later we are presented with a login page.
I feel it worth mentioning there is a button on the login screen which will display a virtual (on-screen) keyboard. I think this is a nice accessibility option.
It also seems worth mentioning that while the default behaviour of the live media is to immediately launch the system installer, deepin does include a live desktop mode. To get to the live desktop though we need to edit a boot menu option and remove the "live-installer" parameter from the boot flags. This is not a friendly approach to providing a live mode, but it does work, allowing people to test drive the distribution prior to installing it.
deepin 20 -- Running Firefox and the Album picture viewer
(full image size: 617kB, resolution: 1360x768 pixels)
Early impressions
When we sign into the Deepin desktop we are asked which style of desktop we want (Effect mode or Normal mode). We are advised the Effect mode offers a "delicate" experience while Normal provides better performance.
When Deepin loads it displays a panel across the bottom of the screen. The application menu sits to the left, then we see some quick-launch buttons, the task switcher, and then the system tray to the right. The first time I signed into Deepin a welcome window opened and asked a few customization questions. We are asked if we want to run the desktop in Fashion Mode or Efficiency Mode. Then whether we want Normal or Effect mode (this question appears to be a repeat of the earlier prompt). We can then choose one of four icon themes to decorate the desktop.
We are shown previews of the various desktop modes deepin offers and, while there are small differences, the overall appearance and layout of the desktop does not appear to change much.
Something I noticed early on while using the desktop is the Settings icon launches a classic settings panel in its own window. From here we can browse modules of configuration options. Past versions of the distribution had a sidebar that opened to the right of the desktop where we could scroll through available settings. While I liked the sidebar approach, the GNOME-like settings panel will probably be more familiar to most users.
Hardware
When I experimented with running deepin on my laptop the distribution ran very well. Desktop performance was good, wireless networking functioned out of the box. Audio worked and my media keys were recognized. All in all, I had no complaints when running deepin on the laptop.
When I switched over to running deepin in VirtualBox, the experience was mostly good. The guest desktop would not dynamically resize, but I could change Deepin's resolution through the settings panel. Desktop responsiveness was okay - neither good nor bad, about average. This is actually good news. In the past when I have run deepin in a virtual machine, desktop performance tended to be poor (sometimes quite poor). The Deepin desktop is noticeably faster in deepin 20.
The distribution is fairly light on memory, using 360MB when signed into the desktop. The operating system consumed 6.4GB of space which is an improvement over past versions. When I reviewed deepin two years ago the system required 350MB of RAM and 9GB of disk space, not including swap space. So memory usage has remained about level while disk consumption has dropped a few gigabytes.
Applications
The deepin project ships a mixture of popular open source applications alongside some custom programs. Firefox and Thunderbird are included, along with the LibreOffice suite of productivity applications. The Cheese webcam utility is installed for us too. Many other applications, including the Music, Movie, and Screen Capture tools all appear to be custom creations. I found deepin shipped with media codecs and was able to play all the audio and video files I threw at it without any problems. Likewise there is a picture viewer called Album and a simple drawing program appropriately called Draw. The file manager also appears to be a custom utility. There is also a voice notes taking program and a launcher for providing user feedback.
deepin 20 -- The application menu
(full image size: 862kB, resolution: 1360x768 pixels)
I appreciate that the application menu includes short-cuts to common folders in our home directory. The menu uses a sort of hybrid approach, using a combination of tree-style navigation with layers. It took me a little while to get used to the approach, but I grew to like it. I also like that the application menu automatically places recently used (presumably favourite) programs near the top of the menu for easy access later.
deepin ships with manual pages and the GNU Compiler Collection. It uses systemd for its init software. There are a few versions of the Linux kernel we can use. My installation ran version 5.4, but 4.19 and 5.7 were available in the repositories.
deepin includes a settings panel which resembles the GNOME two-pane settings panel. Categories of settings are listed down the left side of the window and settings in the given category are shown on the right. The two-pane approach makes navigation quicker than jumping into and out of each module. I also like how clean and uncluttered the Deepin settings panel is. I found it was fairly easy to navigate without too many options on each screen. The panel does a nice job of giving us quick access to theme, mouse, synchronization, and audio controls.
deepin 20 -- Changing themes in the settings panel
(full image size: 524kB, resolution: 1360x768 pixels)
I especially enjoyed the notification settings where we can enable Do Not Disturb mode as well as adjust the sound and notices from each application. Another tool that is included, but I did not have a chance to test, is Deepin ID. This tool reportedly gives us access to cloud sync features for files, browser settings, and App Store data. However, Deepin ID is only available to residents of mainland China.
Another module of the settings panel offers to check for software updates. When I used it the panel reported getting new updates had failed. It is not clear from the message if the check for new packages failed or downloading new updates failed. In any case there are other software updating tools we can use.
Software management
The primary approach to working with software packages on deepin is to use the App Store software manager. App Store begins by displaying a selection of featured items (or "Hot Apps"). Down the left side of the App Store window we find categories we can browse such as Office, Video, Music, Chat, System, and Updates. To the right side of the window we find a list of top-ranked applications. There is also a search bar allowing us to locate items by name.
When we click on a program's name or icon a full page description of the software is provided along with screenshots. We can then click a button to install the software or, if the application is already on our system, the Install button turns into a button that will launch the application.
deepin 20 -- Installing a program through App Store
(full image size: 533kB, resolution: 1360x768 pixels)
I feel it worth noting that with most applications both the names and descriptions are displayed in English. The user interface, on my system, was also displayed in English. However, there are a handful of programs where either the name or the description is presented in Chinese. I suspect these are mostly young packages that have not benefited from translation efforts yet.
For the most part App Store worked well for me. It was quick to respond, fairly easy to navigate, and showed steady progress updates while it was working. However, I ran into a few problems or limitations while using it. The first issue was I could not find a way to remove installed software. Buttons were offered for installing and updating software, but not removing existing programs.
Most programs installed cleanly, but a few (such as VLC) did not, due to missing dependencies. I believe this is linked to my third issue which was App Store was unable to download software updates. When I looked into this further I found that when running the APT command line tools, I would get "404" errors when accessing one of the distribution's repositories. This appeared to be due to a missing "Release" file on the server, which was causing the package manager to have trouble updating its information. I suspect this issue will be fixed by the time this review appears.
New and interesting features
Earlier I mentioned deepin 20 includes a few new features and applications. The User Feedback tool, as it turns out, is a launcher which opens a web browser and presents us with the deepin user forums. Here we can sign up for an account and leave comments or suggestions.
When I opened the Device Manager I had expected to discover a way to install alternative hardware drivers. The utility did provide organized information on hardware and existing drivers, however it does not appear to offer access to alternative drivers.
deepin 20 -- Browsing Driver Manager
(full image size: 357kB, resolution: 1360x768 pixels)
There is a new Font Manager which can add, browse, and see samples of fonts on the system. We can also "favourite" specific fonts, though I'm not sure what effect marking a font as a favourite has. Should we wish to adjust which fonts are used on the interface and their size, we can visit another tool in the settings panel.
The Draw program offers a simple image editing experience somewhat similar to Tux Paint. It does not have many features at the moment, but is quite easy to get started using as its interface is straight forward.
I did not get around to testing the voice note-taking software. It is an interesting idea and one I could see handy for people on the go or who prefer not to type. However, I cannot comment at the moment as to how well it works.
Conclusions
deepin is a distribution which does a lot of things differently from other, more mainstream projects, but in my opinion it is doing a lot of things well. deepin runs on the popular Debian base, which is a common choice, but the interface, tools, and options layered on top of the Debian core are unusual.
The custom deepin installer, for example, is very streamlined and easy to use, especially if we want to take over the entire disk for the operating system. The Deepin desktop is, in a word, beautiful. A lot of care appears to have gone into making Deepin look attractive and consistent. I like that custom deepin applications can alternate seamlessly between using the system theme, a light theme, or a dark theme, independent of other applications. Despite putting effort into looking nice and offering some eye candy, Deepin runs faster and smoother now than it has in the past.
The distribution ships with some common, popular tools, though it augments these with its own programs. Most of the deepin applications, such as Draw, the audio player, and video player appear to be designed with simplicity in mind. The interfaces are streamlined, generally with large icons that are easy to find. Most of the time this approach of doing a few things well as opposed to offering many options in one program appeals to me.
There were some issues with package management during my trail. These all appear to be rooted in the missing "Release" file on one of the repository servers. It will probably be corrected soon. Apart from this issue, which mostly just blocked updates, I really liked App Store. Its interface and performance were otherwise solid.
deepin strikes me as being a good, general purpose desktop operating system. It is easy to install, looks nice, has a friendly settings panel, and the App Store is easy to navigate. I also appreciate that the Deepin desktop allows us to switch between a more attractive visual layout and a more efficient layout for better performance. The ease of switching between themes and managing notifications also feels pleasantly flexible.
All in all, despite a few minor issues, deepin provided a pleasant experience for me. The custom applications and Deepin desktop mean some things work a bit differently than on other popular distributions/desktop combinations. However, I found I liked deepin's approach to most things. The desktop was attractive, faster than it was in the past, and worked well with my hardware.
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Hardware used in this review
My physical test equipment for this review was a de-branded HP laptop with the following
specifications:
- Processor: Intel i3 2.5GHz CPU
- Display: Intel integrated video
- Storage: Western Digital 700GB hard drive
- Memory: 6GB of RAM
- Wired network device: Realtek RTL8101E/RTL8102E PCI Express Fast
- Wireless network device: Realtek RTL8188EE Wireless network card
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Visitor supplied rating
deepin has a visitor supplied average rating of: 8.1/10 from 146 review(s).
Have you used deepin? You can leave your own review of the project on our ratings page.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
Maintaining Cinnamon on Debian, NetBSD's Wayland progress, Fedora to compress firmware, SolydXK's leadership is changing, UBports installer to support third-party operating systems on Volla phones, Linux Mint to package Chromium browser
Norbert Preining has published a blog post in which he talks about maintaining the Cinnamon desktop package for Debian and challenges faced with maintaining complex packages. In particular, he points out Debian's Cinnamon package depends on other packages, some of which are either outdated or being removed from Debian. If these packages are not kept up to date, then they will be removed from Debian's repositories, which will in turn result in Cinnamon being dropped from Debian. "Currently, Cinnamon's cjs package depends on mozjs52, which also is probably going to be orphaned soon. This will precipitate a lot of changes, not the least being Cinnamon being removed from Debian/Testing."
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The Wayland display protocol has been gaining popularity with some Linux distributions, though it has not made many inroads into the BSD communities. One NetBSD developer, Nia Alarie, has posted an overview of the work that has gone into running a Wayland implementation on NetBSD and explains why X11 will continue to be the default for a while. "In a Wayland system, the 'compositor' (display server) is responsible for managing displays, input, and window management. Generally, this means a lot of OS-specific code is contained there. Wayland does not define protocols for features X11 users expect, like screenshots, screen locking, or window management. Either you implement these inside the compositor (lots of work that has to be redone), or you define your own protocol extension. The Wayland 'reference implementation' is a small set of libraries that can be used to build a compositor or a client application. These libraries currently have hard dependencies on Linux kernel APIs like epoll." The blog post offers further details and a list of work still left to do to bring Wayland to NetBSD.
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Fedora 33 is still on the horizon, but some developers are already looking ahead to how the next version of the distribution can be improved. One of the proposed changes suggests compressing Linux firmware to reduce the amount of disk space required. "Since the Linux 5.3 kernel there has been support for loading firmware from xz compressed firmware. The upstream linux-firmware repository is now over 900Mb, not including other kernel firmware that are in Fedora but come from other sources. By compressing the firmware with "xz -C crc32", the only option currently supported in the kernel, we can reduce the ondisk size of the firmware by almost half."
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The SolydXK distribution is going through a leadership transition. The small, Debian-based project will be transferring to two new leaders while founder Arjen will be stepping back into a more background/supportive role. Arjen explains in a blog post: "More than seven years ago I started SolydXK. Just a year earlier I hardly knew anything about Linux. It has been a steep learning curve and I met some interesting people on the way. Now, I feel it is time to take a step back and focus on the things I want to spend more time on. This does not mean that SolydXK is going to stop! The two people I most relied on in the past years volunteered to take over the project. You might know them from the forums as ilu and grizzler. I will stay and maintain the SolydXK packages and help out whenever there is some programming and debugging needed." The post also mentions the project's website will be off-line for a while on October 10, 2020 as the infrastructure is moved to a new host.
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The UBports developers have been improving the project's system installer which largely automates the process of getting UBports onto new devices. Along with a number of bug fixes and improvements there are plans to support installing third-party operating systems on the upcoming Volla phones. The project's newsletter explains: "Jan has been working on the installer and has responded to and updated 200 issues. Changes in UBports installer 4.20 include improved handling of OEM unlocking, device recognition and error handling. Encrypted partitions issues will now be identified. In addition, some more device specific issues have been addressed. There are also some bug fixes and background libraries have been updated. Quite soon there will be more improvements. The intention is that some packages will download and unpack on the systems. This should also include the download of packages from external sources, not maintained by us. We will also introduce ADB side load. In a collaborative project with Volla, we will arrange that all of the OS options available for Volla phones - Sailfish, UT and Volla OS itself - will be available through the installer."
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The latest version of Linux Mint ships without a package in its repositories for the Chromium web browser. This is because Mint's upstream distribution, Ubuntu has done away with a traditional Chromium package in favour of providing Chromium through a Snap package. The Linux Mint team is now planning to build and distribute their own Chromium package using a traditional Deb package. "We're happy to confirm we will be packaging Chromium going forward and providing updates through the official repositories. We noticed significant delays between official releases and the versions available in almost all Linux distributions. For this reason we set up our own packaging and we're building directly from upstream. Some of the patches from Debian and Ubuntu were also imported." Further details on this change, along with information on a bug that hit Linux Mint 19 last month can be found in the distribution's newsletter.
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Selecting an init implementation
Picking-a-preferred-PID1 asks: Some distributions support multiple init software. Is there a guide as to which one is best in certain situations? Why would I pick one init over another?
DistroWatch answers: An operating system's init process (sometimes called PID1) is the first program the kernel runs when starting the system. The init software typically has three main responsibilities: getting the system up and running, including launching background services; collecting any abandoned zombie processes; and initiating shutdown procedures when it is time to turn off (or restart) the computer.
There are a handful of open source init implementations. The most widely used is systemd, which is relatively new and is installed on about 75% of modern Linux distributions. The SysV (System V) init software is probably the oldest implementation of init still widely in use and tends to be run by conservative distributions such as Slackware Linux, Devuan, and PCLinuxOS. OpenRC takes a dependency- and configuration-focused approach to service management and seems to be gaining more wide-spread use outside of its home at Gentoo. The runit software is a small, cross-platform init that is mostly commonly associated with Void, though it runs on several other platforms. While it has not yet see much adoption, the s6 init software is also gaining attention due to its minimal approach and portability.
As to why you might want to use one init over another, to be honest, in most cases the differences between the various init implementations tends to be philosophical rather than practical. Most distributions ship with one init system only and get by just fine with it because, for most people (or at least most people who are not system administrators), one init will function about as well as another. At least so far as each init will start the system, reap zombie processes, and shutdown the computer, and will probably do so transparently from the end-user's point of view.
That being said, there are a few practical aspects to consider. For instance, if you want your background services to make use of Linux control groups or you want to run Snap packages, then you will want to run systemd. As far as I know, it is the only init platform which can natively use control groups and it is a dependency of the Snap package framework.
From the point of view of speed, I have rarely seen any init software outperform runit. The distributions using runit I have tried have typically booted in half the time of their closest competitors. The runit software is incredibly light and fast, using very little memory and it gets the system up and running in a hurry.
In my (biased) opinion as the current maintainer of SysV init, I would say it is probably designed to be the most flexible and transparent of the init systems. One can set up SysV init to be a launch point for just about any service manager, shell script, or executable. Most distributions set it up to run shell scripts and this makes the boot and shutdown process easy for administrators to read, understand, and edit.
The OpenRC project is interesting to me because it seems to be pleasantly flexible and generally growing. I rarely use OpenRC, but there always seems to be a neat feature or configuration option to be discovered. I also like that it is cross-platform and I tend to use it more on FreeBSD-based systems than Linux distributions.
I have not had good luck with s6 and have never used it successfully, but it seems to be developed with an eye toward both performance and portability, two features that I believe will appeal to a lot of people.
Those are, in my opinion, the practical considerations to keep in mind. Philosophically, there are some ideas we can consider too. For instance, both runit and s6 seem to be trying to stay as lightweight and portable as possible. They seem to be sticking as close to the "do one thing and do it well" rule popular among UNIX programmers. On the other end of the spectrum, systemd aims to leverage every advantage and feature it can from the modern Linux kernel. The systemd project does a lot of interesting things and contains many additional tools to provide not just init software, but also a whole layer of low-level tools. This means distributions running systemd have access to a lot of tools and features, but with the side-effect of the software being a lot heavier.
The OpenRC software seems to be taking a middle ground, offering quite a few features and options, while also trying to stay relatively lean. Meanwhile the SysV init software mostly aims to stay small, stable, and reliable. It has changed little over the past twenty years and aims to avoid introducing any big changes or issues.
In short, most of the time you are probably fine running your distribution's default init software. From a practical point of view, it shouldn't make much impact to your computing experience. However, there are differences when we dig down into the various init options and, when a distribution offers more than one init, hopefully the above overview will give you an idea of which one suits your situation best.
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Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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| Released Last Week |
Enso OS 0.4
Enso OS is a Linux distribution based on Xubuntu. Enso features the Xfce desktop with Gala, imported from elementary OS, as the default window manager. The latest release features a new note-taking application called Pinny along with a dark theme. Several improvements have been made to the software manager as well: "Apphive generally features in our releases as being an application manager it's integral to an operating system, helping users to search for / install and remove various applications on the system. This release is not different as Apphive has once again been given a bit of a face lift and some additional features The ability to star favourite applications has been around since the last release but has somewhat sat in the background, this has now become more of a drive for the applications listed on the home screen, using their popularity to display the most starred applications to other users while also displaying how many stars each application has received." Further details can be found in the project's release announcement.
Enso OS 0.4 -- Running the Xfce/Gala desktop
(full image size: 1.0MB, resolution: 1360x768 pixels)
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 2,161
- Total data uploaded: 34.0TB
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) |
Running the Deepin Desktop Environment
One of the key features of the deepin distribution is its custom Deepin Desktop Environment. The desktop offers an attractive, modern interface with a good deal of flexibility when it comes to adjusting the system for performance or visual effects. The Deepin environment has been ported to some other distributions, though it is rarely used as the default desktop by other projects. This week we would like to hear if you use to the Deepin desktop. Let us know what you think of the Deepin interface in the comments.
You can see the results of our previous poll on whether you would install Linuxfx for friends or family in last week's edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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Do you run the Deepin desktop?
| Yes - on the deepin distro: | 91 (6%) |
| Yes - on another distro: | 81 (5%) |
| No: | 1340 (89%) |
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| Website News |
DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 12 October 2020. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Article Search page. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
- Bruce Patterson (podcast)
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • deeppin & init (by vern on 2020-10-05 00:17:41 GMT from United States)
I've installed deep a long while ago, and it took me a while to get it setup the way I want. I had little issues, but after a while I opted for Ubuntu in the end. I did really enjoy using deep, and may try it again.
As far as init goes, this should get a lot of response this week. It reminds me of politics & religion.
I use Ubuntu, so its Systemd, but Ironically I remove Snaps and NEVER use them.
2 • deepin (by vern on 2020-10-05 00:19:05 GMT from United States)
I meant deepin. By the way, I have tried the curreent version 20.
3 • deepin (by exploder on 2020-10-05 00:44:10 GMT from United States)
I tried deepin a while back, the developers do some nice work! The forum was very friendly also. Deepin does a great job with the look and feel and their custom apps are very good. Nice to see a review on this distro and the excellent progress it has made,
4 • runit (by Andy Prough on 2020-10-05 01:36:50 GMT from United States)
For anyone looking to try a distro with runit, I recommend the antiX runit version. It stays close enough to its Debian base that running the system is very simple for most users, and it has access to all of Debian's vast software along with its own amazing live usb tools. In terms of speed, it is a bit shocking the first time you watch it boot up or start up an otherwise slow program. Often, before I can get my fingers over the home row on the keyboard, antiX runit is already up and waiting for me like I'm the slow one.
5 • PID 1 and several options beyond systemd - some notes (by linuxer on 2020-10-05 02:00:24 GMT from Greece)
Artix Linux covers three main systemd-free init systems, OpenRC, Runit and s6.
Regarding Snaps, the distributions that truly need them, are Ubuntu itself, and the Ubuntu based ones.
For Artix Linux, just use AUR.
6 • Deepin theming (by Hoos on 2020-10-05 04:19:08 GMT from Singapore)
The revamped Deepin seems to have very limited theming options. It's either Light, Auto or Dark variations of their preinstalled theme.
The older Deepin versions permitted other themes to be applied.
That is one of the changes I did not welcome.
7 • Artix shows the pure speed of non systemd (by JJ on 2020-10-05 04:30:45 GMT from Japan)
I have been running Artix with KDE and OpenRC. It boots blindingly fast. This simpler init system is still leagues faster than systemd, but also systemd based systems tend to go and try to launch far too many other things in the background.
I've also tried Artix with runit and s6, and yes, faster.
FreeBSD also boots super fast.
I have no religious problem with systemd but I do frown upon its messiness and incompleteness. Simpler init systems are faster and lighter generally.
8 • DDE on a laptop. (by Tran Older on 2020-10-05 04:38:16 GMT from Vietnam)
On a Dell Latitude core i5, ranks could be as follows :
1. UbuntuDDE 20.4.1 (kernel 5.4, DDE 15.11). I removed apport, which was an Ubuntu issue. The DDE 15.11 Raven-style control panel is more handy on a laptop than that of DDE 20.
2. Garuda Deepin lite edition (kernel 5.8, DDE 20).
3. Archman Deepin (kernel 5.8, DDE 20) & DDE 20 installed on ArcoLinux (kernel 5.8).
Both Arch-based are faster than Garuda but Garuda provides an OOTB
experience for new users.
4. deepin 20 (kernel 5.7, DDE 20). App Store sill has broken Enlish.
5. DDE 20 installed on Manjaro 20.1 Openbox (kernel 5.8), by using sudo pacman -S deepin in xterm.
9 • Correction (by Tran Older on 2020-10-05 04:46:06 GMT from Vietnam)
App Store still has broken English.
10 • deepin (by Anon on 2020-10-05 04:48:12 GMT from Philippines)
Seeing the performance of the deepin distro and desktop improve over the years has been nice. I still remember the time when I tested it and it proved to be a resource hog - I'm really happy about the constant progress its devs are making. Now in 2020 I can confidently say the deepin desktop is a contender for the "lightweight" choices when it comes to running it on old/low spec hardware (which is all that I have). I also appreciate the Debian base of the distro; Debian has everything after all. Though the experience on Ubuntu DDE edition is also nice. Overall, it's a promising desktop and project, and I hope it gets even more support and popularity.
11 • Re: deepin (by eco2geek on 2020-10-05 06:13:48 GMT from United States)
If you're interested in running deepin live from the installation media, you should also change the locale to "en_US.UTF-8" (the locale on the default command line starts it in Chinese).
Personally I'm not a huge fan of deepin's home-grown applications (e.g. Music, File Manager, etc). Then again I'm pretty sure I could either get used to them or install others from the Debian repositories.
12 • Go Deep (by Mark on 2020-10-05 08:33:36 GMT from Canada)
I dont run the deepin desktop, but I use some of their custom apps, which are simple and useful. Deepin Images handles webp pics. Deepin Screenshot is a fav too.
13 • Deepin (by lupus on 2020-10-05 09:28:17 GMT from Germany)
I'm very disappointed that the raven style control panel seems to be gone for good. Deepin has been my favorite Desktop Environment for a long time and the control panel with quick access to everything was one reason besides the beauty. I think Budgie Desktop will be my fallback.
14 • Deepin 20 (by rich52 on 2020-10-05 12:50:16 GMT from United States)
I've tried Deepin 20 (Arch) version several times and liked how it performed and installed. Biggest problem was at times the software updates at times were incomplete and crashed my system so I gave up on it and went back to EndeavorOS cinnamon desktop. I did like the desktop interface and it was easy to navigate. For the most part it was smooth and worked rather well. I think once it has matured more with fewer bugs I may go back to it and attempt it again. It isn't as busy as KDE and it seems to offer more than Gnome desktop. My experience with it wasn't too bad and it's worth the attempt to use on a daily basis if it is kept up to date and bug free with the latest software versions.
15 • Desktop Environment (by voidpin on 2020-10-05 13:15:12 GMT from Sweden)
"One of the key components Linux users look at when selecting which distribution to run is the desktop environment."
Indeed, I always look for one that offers an option to install WITHOUT a desktop environment.
16 • DDE (by Ankleface Wroughlandmire on 2020-10-05 13:24:16 GMT from Ecuador)
I appreciate many aspects of the Deepin Desktop Environment (DDE), and I would like to run it. The problem is that I am an openSUSE user, and the dev that was trying to package DDE for openSUSE recently gave up out of frustration. He claims that the quality of the upstream code is extremely poor, and this makes it difficult to package for other non-Debian distros.
17 • Voted no (by Friar Tux on 2020-10-05 13:44:05 GMT from Canada)
I voted no Deepin. I was a KDE fan until a couple of years ago when KDE started glitching and bricking my machine. I tried the Cinnamon DE and fell in love with it (ironically, I hate the actual cinnamon taste/flavour). The Cinnamon DE seems to be in tune with how I work so it's a perfect fit. As for how great the Deepin DE looks. That's really a none issue as you can fiddle with any DE and make it look what you opine as great. I've stopped hunting for themes since I discover the Oomox Theme Builder. For me, after a bit of experimentation, it produces some really great looking themes.
I noticed some of the commenters, before me, write about the speed of certain distros. Being retired, and having lots of time to do nothing in, I was never really concerned about the speed of a distro - until I tried PCLinuxOS. I tried three flavours - KDE5, Trinity, and Mate. And... man... were... they... slow... Noticeably slow. Very noticeably slow. I learned something that day.
18 • KDE and using it versus Deepin (by Bobbie Sellers on 2020-10-05 15:17:48 GMT from United States)
I have used Deepin an older version running on hardware and in a virtual machine.
I use KDE with PCLinuxOS 64 2020.09 and in my virtual machine I run MX-19.2 with KDE.
I use used machines either refurbished or in good condition, simply because I cannot afford
the high specification machines which I prefer new.
You do not mention the specifications of your machine on which you found PCLinuxOS64 slow?
You may think that KDE is slow but it is by testing faster than most alternatives.
It takes up a bit more room on the fixed disk but less memory in use.
These are the specs of this machine: Dell E6540 with HD display
CPU: Quad Core Intel Core i7-4800MQ (-MT MCP-) speed/min/max: 1254/800/3700 MHz Kernel: 5.8.13-pclos1 x86_64 Up: 2d 8h 02m Mem: 6432.2/15927.8 MiB (40.4%) Storage: 4.09 TiB (28.1% used) Procs: 318 Shell: inxi: 3.1.04 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 06) and VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Mars XTX [Radeon HD 8790M] 500 GB spinning rust for the fixed disk.
I wonder if when you found your PCLinuxOS 64 attempts running slow if you bothered
to go to the PCLinux Forum to seek assistance. I wonder how long ago you tried out
KDE's Desktop Environment whether it was 3.9,x, 4.x.x or Plasma 5 updated.
<https://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php>.
bliss - C=64 to Amiga to Mandriva to PCLinuxOS 64 with a few diversions along the way.
19 • Deepin Popularity (by Bobbie Sellers on 2020-10-05 15:23:56 GMT from United States)
I wonder how many users from Asian nations are represented here?
I think that Deepin has been intended for Asian users along with Ubuntu Kylin.
Certainly I download it for the LUG so that if we have requests for a distribution
accommodating Asian languages there is an iso file at hand for support.
bliss-SF-LUG meeting via Jit.se meeting while Covid-19 controls out socialization
20 • PCLinuxOS and PID1 (by David on 2020-10-05 15:54:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
I too am surprised at some-one finding PCLinuxOS slow. I'm running it on an AMD A6, which is roughly comparable with an Intel i-3 and the performance is fine. Of course, I do have the Xfce desktop, which probably helps.
The use of System V init doesn't seem to slow the boot, which takes less than 10 seconds. As for the difference between that and systemd, I'd agree that few ordinary users would notice the difference. In the last 20 years, I've only twice had to fiddle with init — once with System V, once with systemd, and neither was rocket science.
One thing about systemd is that it is normally required to run Gnome (unless you add some special tools to emulate some of its features) — no great loss, I'd say..
21 • Deepin - what is its USP? (by curious on 2020-10-05 15:55:38 GMT from Germany)
Deepin / DDE looks nice and actually usable, now that they have optimized the performance and replaced the ugly phone-style fullscreen thing with a proper menu.
But what really distinguishes it from the other popular desktop environments? "Pretty" isn't really an argument - with the right theme, I am sure you could make KDE (or Cinnamon, or ...) look just like DDE. So why should anyone prefer Deepin?
@17 slow PCLinuxOS: You are lucky that you got it running at all. PCLOS is, in my experience, very picky about hardware. While I like its concept (slow-rolling, conservative, focus on ease-of-use), I was never able to boot it except in a VM, so I finally gave up on it in 2018.
22 • Review thought (by CS on 2020-10-05 16:26:39 GMT from United States)
"wireless networking functioned out of the box" -- well that's... good.
Jesse - wanted to throw out an idea -- these days I hardly go a working day without a Zoom or Webex video call, maybe others are finding themselves in the same state. I would be interested to know which distros do well or poorly at video conferencing. Anyone else?
23 • DDE on other distros (by harbl on 2020-10-05 18:05:31 GMT from Philippines)
This is more a word of caution that probably also applies to any other DE that is classified "below official support" on a rolling release distro. While I don't personally use DDE myself, I check the forums for official update notes regularly as I use Manjaro. I remember not too long ago when Manjaro updated one of the libraries (Qt iirc) and DDE users started reporting errors on their end. Long story short, DDE users had to roll back their systems and hold back from updates until DDE released updates that use the new libraries. I don't know how long the DDE users had to wait until the updates to DDE were available. The Manjaro team couldn't do much but tell them to roll back because Manjaro supports KDE officially while DDE was only a community release, so it made sense for them to prioritize KDE users. I use Cinnamon, which also falls outside of Manjaro's officially supported DEs, so this incident was a healthy dose of heads up to me.
24 • PcLinuxOS (by GreginNC on 2020-10-05 21:17:17 GMT from United States)
No idea why so many in the comments are talking about PcLinux but since they are here's my experience.
I've used PcLinux from the first release in 2007 until 2010, used Slackware from 2010 until it went into permanent beta a couple years back and have run PcLinux since that time.
In all the years I've used it I never had any issue with slow booting or it being "picky" about hardware, and I have installed it on dozens of different system myself and recommended it to others and never heard a complaint from any of them.
It does have its flaws like any other OS, but still is one of if not the most trouble free distros available.
25 • deepin 20 (by Gekxxx on 2020-10-06 03:20:05 GMT from Belgium)
I use D20 now. Really stable and support for UEFI is great. Only thing is the appstore often show apps which are not installable. One needs Flatpak. This is, once used too, a great distro. Recommended. Full support for Brother printers through Brother Printer Install Tool. Happy Deepin to all!
26 • @22 - distro for zoom, videoconferencing (by Andy Prough on 2020-10-06 05:26:41 GMT from United States)
@22 - "these days I hardly go a working day without a Zoom or Webex video call, maybe others are finding themselves in the same state. I would be interested to know which distros do well or poorly at video conferencing. Anyone else?"
MX is the best I've found with videoconferencing apps. They also make it easier to install them with special scripts in their MX Package Installer.
27 • PCLinuxOS (by pyjujiop on 2020-10-06 06:25:52 GMT from United States)
I've used it off and on for a decade, on all sorts of different hardware, and never once had any problems installing it or performance issues with it. The admin gets a little crotchety about people asking him to support very old machinery, but I've got it running on 10 year-old laptops with less problems than making Win10 run on them.
If you just want everything as easy as possible, then install plain-jane Ubuntu or Mint and be done with it. But three of the four computers here are running PCLOS.
28 • Zoom (by Dave Postles on 2020-10-06 12:52:14 GMT from United Kingdom)
I usually download it from the Zoom download site and install it with gdebi. I can find no way of running Zoom on BSD.
29 • Zoom (by whoKnows on 2020-10-06 16:10:10 GMT from Switzerland)
28 • Zoom (by Dave Postles)
"I can find no way of running Zoom on BSD."
https://www.davidschlachter.com/misc/freebsd-videoconferencing
https://zoom.us/download?os=linux
30 • Can o' worms... (by Friar Tux on 2020-10-06 21:40:44 GMT from Canada)
Hmmm, it appears I opened up a can o' worms. I commented on what worked slow for me. Period. I didn't disparage any distro. And yes, PCLOS was noticeably slow - and if THIS old geezer notices it, then it's slow. And as @27 (pyjujiop) suggested, I went back to Mint. Uh-tha-tha-tha-that's all folks. Move along, nothing to see here.
31 • Deepin' tracking? (by Jeff TIncher on 2020-10-06 23:37:34 GMT from United States)
In the past Deepin has had some press about China using Deepin to track user information and use it to hack. Was that ever the case?
32 • deepin (by Jesse on 2020-10-07 00:15:31 GMT from Canada)
@31: "In the past Deepin has had some press about China using Deepin to track user information and use it to hack. Was that ever the case?"
The short answer is no, there has never been any evidence to support this idea.
The longer answer is that virtually every operating system does something to leak data. Whether it's checking repositories for updates, sending search strings to on-line search engines, submitting hardware profiles, most web browsers identify their OS and can be fingerprinted, etc.
One person, for example, once claimed deepin's software manager had machine-specific information that could be used to track the user. However, this was basically due to the nature of queries being sent and does not appear to have been an effort to track users. In the past I think deepin shipped with Chrome which defaults to sending telemetry to Google, though they've switched default browsers now.
Neither of these is really specific to deepin (versus other Linux distributions) and none of it appears to be connected to the Chinese government. Unless someone comes up with some source code which shows unusual tracking features (beyond what other distros include) I'd say such claims are baseless.
33 • Zoom @28 (by Ex Zoomer on 2020-10-07 09:38:22 GMT from United States)
Open-source qtox and retroshare do video calls. They run on BSD and all other desktop platforms. Android qtox exists too; not yet iOS.
34 • Deepin tracking (by Otis on 2020-10-07 14:25:27 GMT from United States)
@31 Just assume that your activities and hardware are known and being tracked, as Jesse brings out in @32. By governments? I assume that, too and yes it does affect my social media posts, etc.
35 • Left out... (about tracking)... (by Otis on 2020-10-07 14:27:33 GMT from United States)
...We're on the internet, and everybody has access to the internet now, including governments.
36 • Debian+Cinnamon package issue sorted (by James on 2020-10-08 20:18:53 GMT from New Zealand)
Reading the news on Debian + Cinnamon made me spill tea on laptop screen and issue some fine upstanding words of the english language.
Anyway here's an update from package maintainer:
Update 2020-09-30: The post has created considerable movement, and a PR request by Fedora developers to rebase cjs onto more current gjs and libmozjs78 is being tested. I have uploaded packages of cinnamon and cjs to experimental based on these patches (400 files, about 50000 lines of code touched, not what I normally like to have in a debian patch) and would appreciate testing and feedback.
Updated blog post link below:
https://www.preining.info/blog/2020/09/cinnamon-for-debian-imminent-removal-from-testing/
I'll load it to my laptop and see how it goes.
37 • Deepin desktop (by dude on 2020-10-08 21:57:10 GMT from United States)
I never knew Deepin had a different desktop environment. I think it looks good and I'll have to give it a try. I'm always looking for alternatives to the Gnome3 desktop environment, without the horrible Activities Overlay. I'm currently using Xfce, because it seems to be the most well supported alternative.
38 • in to the deep end (by fonz on 2020-10-09 03:30:56 GMT from Indonesia)
very curious to see how deepin handles as the review says it sits idly at around ~400MB, and lots of people giving it good comments. currently im giving KDE (and later, maybe budgie) a spin and its at ~600MB on MX. much more feature packed than XFCE/LXQT, but they sit at ~400MB, KDE has really gone far in like a year. back then both NUMB3 and KDE5 were idling at +1GB. it feels like GTK is becoming more 'fisher pricey' while QT is adding more stuff (which i prefer).
rereading the march solus review, ive never successfully installed solus. i guess its just pickyer compared to other distros ive tried so far, and thats not straying to the BSD yet. any thoughts on budgie?
39 • Deepin Desktop (by brucef on 2020-10-09 07:43:15 GMT from Australia)
I have used both the Deepin OS as well as other distros using the Deepin Desktop (DDE) - but not the current version 20. It must be appreciated that there was considerable delay in introducing the current version and the previous OS and DDE were stagnant for an extended period. I found that the DDE on other distros often appeared to lack some features. There are two issues that detracted from the previous and current versions. It was suggested that the previous version was spyware, transmitting data via the package manager. This was probably never verified. However the current problem is a definite. Deepin OS is not subject to a GNU licence and has a very lengthy, and some would say a rather offensive EULA. Out of principle, I refuse to accept the terms of the EULA - which means that I can never install it.
40 • @39, deepin EULA (by Juan de la Cruz on 2020-10-09 10:12:03 GMT from Philippines)
No a big fan of deepin, but less of a fan of misinformation. deepin community edition is published under GPL3.
Deepin Technology grants to you a perpetual, worldwide, and non-exclusive license to the software pursuant to this EULA and “GNU General Public License” (Version 3). The software may contain the components compiled by third-party developers in accordance with the corresponding open source license Each software component is undera license located in its source code, which should be conformed to when using it.
https://www.deepin.org/en/2018/12/29/eula/
41 • Inits (by Cheker on 2020-10-09 11:40:08 GMT from Portugal)
Both of my daily drivers have systemd by default. I understand and respect the skepticism towards it, but I don't particularly care. Sometimes I look at other inits (recently OpenRC under Artix) when I feel like learning something, because most of what I know in terms of managing services is inevitably geared towards systemd. I feel it's good to know more than one init, in that sense.
42 • RAM (by missTell on 2020-10-09 13:31:55 GMT from Switzerland)
@ 38 • in to the deep end (by fonz)
If what “sits” around “where” is all that interests you, then you can save yourself from trying Solus.
https://ibb.co/Mshmkcf
However, if you want to correctly compare those “naked” numbers, then you also need some solid understanding of memory management (caching!) — “naked” numbers aren't wort much.
Normal values for ...
XFCE — 200 ~ 250 MB https://ibb.co/6JTqxpT and https://ibb.co/xfRJ5yQ
KDE — 400 ~ 450 MB https://ibb.co/r2VyKmF
There is also improved version of KDE Plasma, which uses approx. 200 MB (“Fly”, Astra Orel).
https://ibb.co/0Dc6Mxn
43 • Inits .... inits everywhere (by MrSchnappyMcFlappy on 2020-10-09 14:44:25 GMT from Mexico)
Not that my opinion matters in the slightest, but..... when it comes to inits I think we should be given the choice upon installation.
Just like with a NetInstall where we can choose the desktop we want, I think we should be given a choice which init we want. There is a strong anti-SystemD percentage of the Linux population but who don't use a non-SystemD distro because they are too complicated to install or just don't work properly. So the majority maybe begrudgingly, choose Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora when they would rather use something else.
MxLinux is the only distro I know that gives users a choice of Init. Why can't others implement the same feature?
44 • Init choice (by Jesse on 2020-10-09 14:54:03 GMT from Canada)
@43: "MxLinux is the only distro I know that gives users a choice of Init. Why can't others implement the same feature?"
The short answer is because almost no one thinks the issue is important enough to implement init choice at run time. Linux distributions are mostly made by volunteers and they work on issues that interest them. No one is volunteering to either work on or pay anyone to do this.
Another factor is the complexity. You can install any number of desktop environments on a distro and the system still works the same. The desktop is a layer on top of the OS. Init is a core component of the OS, it's at the very core of things, and it affects all the low level services. You don't only need to package init, you also need to package alternative services like elogind, make sure desktops work with the new init, write initscripts for each service. It's hundreds of hours of work in some cases. (And again, no one is paying for it.)
In addition, if you want to package a new desktop for a distro you can just install its packages and you're good to go. It doesn't affect your OS and you can install as many as you want without breaking anything (most of the time). With init you need to set up a separate install or VM for every init implementation you want to test/package or risk conflicts.
45 • Cinnamon (by mango on 2020-10-09 16:50:25 GMT from Philippines)
@36
I don't know why, but I also got interested in following this news. If you look at the bug report thread for this issue on github, Clem already joined the discussion and said they're gonna prioritize fixing this. It was actually an interesting read even if I know next to nothing about developing DE's or maintaining packages.
46 • Deepin and User Tracking (by dude on 2020-10-09 19:43:13 GMT from United States)
I don't think it matters which OS or graphical interface you use. They'll find some way to track you anyways. Android and Windows aren't "safe" either.
47 • Init choices and things (by Great Alexander the Barbarian on 2020-10-10 11:00:17 GMT from Germany)
Init choice on installation:
Artix has 3 on board, you can boot up an Artix-S6 image and install the same or runit or openrc. Edit your pacman.conf file and un(b)lock the core Arch repository and install Arch's default. That easy.
Void has s6 and a marvel of a service management system on repository but no service files yet (can be borrowed from another system), in parallel to its official void.
Obarun: is the display case for s6 at work for 6 years now, the first and for a long time the only publicly available distro running s6 super stably (like granite). Now also found in Adelie, Void, and Artix. Edit pacman.conf, remove the blocking of systemd and libs, and install it from arch repositories that are all enabled in obarun. Reboot ... See how your performance benchmarks drop with something "popular". Obarun's corrected software will run on systemd, systemd-only arch software will not run without obarun's corrections (as in closer to what the developer issued and not what Arch tied to systemd).
Antix: Has published a runit demonstration image, just to show how easy it is to do. On debian it is easy to "drop" to systemd, staying away from it is the art that Antix has demonstrated. MX is just a fluffy entry level linux user modification of Antix. The core in MX is antix, the desktop themes come from MX. In MX systemd being installed doesn't necesseraly means that it is active.
Spark linux: Basically arch and the minimalist sinit init system and its homegrown superminimalist service supervision called ssm. Other than this it is basically Arch and you are on your own on things that will not work without systemd present. In size if systemd is 10, s6 is 3, runit is 2.5, and sinit is 0.8. But, like Einstein said, about things being as simple as necessary, just not any simpler.
Can you run several init systems and or mixture of init and service supervisors/managers? Yes. Basically on all linux the kernel image is loaded and looks for /sbin/init or /usr/sbin/init, or /usr/bin/init ... and in some cases it is a binary, in some it is a 2 line script pointing to the init system, or can be a link to it. So you can have 3-4 init systems installed, and just switch the pointer to the one you want for next boot (also move/rename power functions as reboot,poweroff,halt,shutdown). As far as I know no init can displace or replace another on the fly. There is no real reason to anyway, it defeats the purpose. Once the init process is complete then come services and daemons. From as simple as a tty to as complicated as a bundle of services and modules. You can boot with sinit and then use runit to supervise services, You can boot runit and have 66 supervise services, you can boot s6 and have ssm (Spark's serv.mgmt) ... and so on.
98% of linux users choose not to have anything to do with this part of the system, they see a DM coming up, login and choose desktop. The fun and the art of linux comes in this core system that can be less than 1GB. Whatever else you load past that point is basically like things you shove in the trunk or the back seat of a car till its suspension collapses. Some people like and need a limo, some like a bicycle. But using a 4 axle heavy-haul tractor to drag a surfboard is a bit "eccentric"?
There is also minit, and other forks of daemontools.
Popularity: DW contradicts itself and its own readers. Was it one or two years ago it run a vote on init systems, and systemd didn't win? The top 4 competitors of systemd took 60% of the vote. So what is popular in the "market" and what is popular among DW readers, can be two separate things. So is DW reporting popularity based on its marketing agenda or its assessment of actual readers' choices. Tiny details like this can make a huge difference. If "media" keep reporting that choice Z is the most popular, even though it ranks 5th in sales, soon enough Z WILL BECOME most popular. If choice K is most popular but spends 0 on marketing, it will drop to the word of mouth about what is best, but will drop, despite of being best.
So, do we care about what is most popular or what is best? Do developers make software built on the assumption this platform is best, most popular, or makes more sense? You give too much credit to developers that craft desktop "toys".
48 • @47 Init choices.... (by Hoos on 2020-10-10 11:24:06 GMT from Singapore)
@47: "Antix: Has published a runit demonstration image, just to show how easy it is to do. On debian it is easy to "drop" to systemd, staying away from it is the art that Antix has demonstrated. MX is just a fluffy entry level linux user modification of Antix. The core in MX is antix, the desktop themes come from MX. In MX systemd being installed doesn't necesseraly means that it is active....
Can you run several init systems and or mixture of init and service supervisors/managers? Yes. Basically on all linux the kernel image is loaded and looks for /sbin/init or /usr/sbin/init, or /usr/bin/init ... and in some cases it is a binary, in some it is a 2 line script pointing to the init system, or can be a link to it. So you can have 3-4 init systems installed, and just switch the pointer to the one you want for next boot (also move/rename power functions as reboot,poweroff,halt,shutdown). As far as I know no init can displace or replace another on the fly......"
Although MX is based on antiX, there is a significant difference in the init part of things. antiX does not contain systemd packages and is thus truly systemd-free, Its normal init is sysV, but like you said, there is a runit iso version.
MX contains systemd packages but by default uses sysV init. However, without "...switch[ing] the pointer to the one you want for next boot (also move/rename power functions as reboot,poweroff,halt,shutdown)...." or editing any file or installing any further packages, the MX user can simply reboot and at the grub menu, choose the menu entry for booting into systemd.
This was possible only because pre-Debian Buster, Debian did have a system-shim package that allowed sysV and systemd to both exist on the system. Debian didn't update it for Buster, but MX did for its own repos.
49 • Init systems... (by Friar Tux on 2020-10-10 14:09:12 GMT from Canada)
I find all this banter about init systems interesting. I am, however, with Jesse on this one. It really doesn't matter to me what starts my machine so long as I get to the desktop to do what I need to do. I also find it interesting that the most disparaged init system is the most used. (Notice I didn't say popular.) Having said all that, I do believe one of the joys of running Linux is that you can fiddle and tweak under the hood to your heart's content. So if the init system drives you batty for whatever reason, then switch it out, re-muddle it, do what you think best with it. Or use a distro that uses the init you like best. I see this whole Linux thing like a warehouse full of auto parts. I can take any part from most any shelf and part it together with any other part I deem fit, to build myself a super-car. Or, I can take an existing car and re-muddle it to what I feel I like. This is Linux at it's best. Linux + opinions = variety.
50 • init flavors (by vern on 2020-10-10 14:52:13 GMT from United States)
@49 "I also find it interesting that the most disparaged init system is the most used"
That's because the minority speaks the loudest. The majority just use their system as is without further ado.
51 • minority/majority (by Otis on 2020-10-10 20:00:16 GMT from United States)
@49 @50 with regard to inits with that logic of "That's because the minority speaks the loudest. The majority just use their system as is without further ado" should we use it for Linux vs Windows?
52 • Tracking vs REALLY TRACKING (by Juan de la Cruz on 2020-10-11 01:37:11 GMT from Philippines)
I'd say Jesse is probably correct about deepin tracking. But deepin does have a commercial version which adheres to the laws and regulations of the PRC. Here's what that can mean:
There's a new Chinese browser (Tuber) which allows people on the mainland to access such nefarious content as YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, et al. Of course there's a catch. "Registration requires a Chinese phone number, which is tied to a person's real identity. The platform could suspend users' accounts and share their data "with the relevant authorities" if they "actively watch or share" content that breaches the constitution, endangers national security and sovereignty, spreads rumors, disrupts social orders or violates other local laws, according to the app's terms of service."
Some people here are bothered or worried about being tracked by Google, or even the NSA. Bah! Compared to the CCP, they are piddling amateurs.
Note: I am posting anonymously on a VPN in case. (Just kidding!)
Number of Comments: 52
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| • Issue 1159 (2026-02-09): Sharing files on a network, isolating processes on Linux, LFS to focus on systemd, openSUSE polishes atomic updates, NetBSD not likely to adopt Rust code, COSMIC roadmap |
| • Issue 1158 (2026-02-02): Manjaro 26.0, fastest filesystem, postmarketOS progress report, Xfce begins developing its own Wayland window manager, Bazzite founder interviewed |
| • Issue 1157 (2026-01-26): Setting up a home server, what happened to convergence, malicious software entering the Snap store, postmarketOS automates hardware tests, KDE's login manager works with systemd only |
| • Issue 1156 (2026-01-19): Chimera Linux's new installer, using the DistroWatch Torrent Corner, new package tools for Arch, Haiku improves EFI support, Redcore streamlines branches, Synex introduces install-time ZFS options |
| • Issue 1155 (2026-01-12): MenuetOS, CDE on Sparky, iDeal OS 2025.12.07, recommended flavour of BSD, Debian seeks new Data Protection Team, Ubuntu 25.04 nears its end of life, Google limits Android source code releases, Fedora plans to replace SDDM, Budgie migrates to Wayland |
| • Issue 1154 (2026-01-05): postmarketOS 25.06/25.12, switching to Linux and educational resources, FreeBSD improving laptop support, Unix v4 available for download, new X11 server in development, CachyOS team plans server edtion |
| • Issue 1153 (2025-12-22): Best projects of 2025, is software ever truly finished?, Firefox to adopt AI components, Asahi works on improving the install experience, Mageia presents plans for version 10 |
| • Issue 1152 (2025-12-15): OpenBSD 7.8, filtering websites, Jolla working on a Linux phone, Germany saves money with Linux, Ubuntu to package AMD tools, Fedora demonstrates AI troubleshooting, Haiku packages Go language |
| • Issue 1151 (2025-12-08): FreeBSD 15.0, fun command line tricks, Canonical presents plans for Ubutnu 26.04, SparkyLinux updates CDE packages, Redox OS gets modesetting driver |
| • Issue 1150 (2025-12-01): Gnoppix 25_10, exploring if distributions matter, openSUSE updates tumbleweed's boot loader, Fedora plans better handling of broken packages, Plasma to become Wayland-only, FreeBSD publishes status report |
| • Issue 1149 (2025-11-24): MX Linux 25, why are video drivers special, systemd experiments with musl, Debian Libre Live publishes new media, Xubuntu reviews website hack |
| • Issue 1148 (2025-11-17): Zorin OS 18, deleting a file with an unusual name, NetBSD experiments with sandboxing, postmarketOS unifies its documentation, OpenBSD refines upgrades, Canonical offers 15 years of support for Ubuntu |
| • Issue 1147 (2025-11-10): Fedora 43, the size and stability of the Linux kernel, Debian introducing Rust to APT, Redox ports web engine, Kubuntu website off-line, Mint creates new troubleshooting tools, FreeBSD improves reproducible builds, Flatpak development resumes |
| • Issue 1146 (2025-11-03): StartOS 0.4.0, testing piped commands, Ubuntu Unity seeks help, Canonical offers Ubuntu credentials, Red Hat partners with NVIDIA, SUSE to bundle AI agent with SLE 16 |
| • Issue 1145 (2025-10-27): Linux Mint 7 "LMDE", advice for new Linux users, AlmaLinux to offer Btrfs, KDE launches Plasma 6.5, Fedora accepts contributions written by AI, Ubuntu 25.10 fails to install automatic updates |
| • Issue 1144 (2025-10-20): Kubuntu 25.10, creating and restoring encrypted backups, Fedora team debates AI, FSF plans free software for phones, ReactOS addresses newer drivers, Xubuntu reacts to website attack |
| • Issue 1143 (2025-10-13): openSUSE 16.0 Leap, safest source for new applications, Redox introduces performance improvements, TrueNAS Connect available for testing, Flatpaks do not work on Ubuntu 25.10, Kamarada plans to switch its base, Solus enters new epoch, Frugalware discontinued |
| • Issue 1142 (2025-10-06): Linux Kamarada 15.6, managing ZIP files with SQLite, F-Droid warns of impact of Android lockdown, Alpine moves ahead with merged /usr, Cinnamon gets a redesigned application menu |
| • Issue 1141 (2025-09-29): KDE Linux and GNOME OS, finding mobile flavours of Linux, Murena to offer phones with kill switches, Redox OS running on a smartphone, Artix drops GNOME |
| • Issue 1140 (2025-09-22): NetBSD 10.1, avoiding AI services, AlmaLinux enables CRB repository, Haiku improves disk access performance, Mageia addresses service outage, GNOME 49 released, Linux introduces multikernel support |
| • Issue 1139 (2025-09-15): EasyOS 7.0, Linux and central authority, FreeBSD running Plasma 6 on Wayland, GNOME restores X11 support temporarily, openSUSE dropping BCacheFS in new kernels |
| • Issue 1138 (2025-09-08): Shebang 25.8, LibreELEC 12.2.0, Debian GNU/Hurd 2025, the importance of software updates, AerynOS introduces package sets, postmarketOS encourages patching upstream, openSUSE extends Leap support, Debian refreshes Trixie media |
| • Issue 1137 (2025-09-01): Tribblix 0m37, malware scanners flagging Linux ISO files, KDE introduces first-run setup wizard, CalyxOS plans update prior to infrastructure overhaul, FreeBSD publishes status report |
| • Issue 1136 (2025-08-25): CalyxOS 6.8.20, distros for running containers, Arch Linux website under attack,illumos Cafe launched, CachyOS creates web dashboard for repositories |
| • Issue 1135 (2025-08-18): Debian 13, Proton, WINE, Wayland, and Wayback, Debian GNU/Hurd 2025, KDE gets advanced Liquid Glass, Haiku improves authentication tools |
| • Issue 1134 (2025-08-11): Rhino Linux 2025.3, thoughts on malware in the AUR, Fedora brings hammered websites back on-line, NetBSD reveals features for version 11, Ubuntu swaps some command line tools for 25.10, AlmaLinux improves NVIDIA support |
| • Issue 1133 (2025-08-04): Expirion Linux 6.0, running Plasma on Linux Mint, finding distros which support X11, Debian addresses 22 year old bug, FreeBSD discusses potential issues with pkgbase, CDE ported to OpenBSD, Btrfs corruption bug hitting Fedora users, more malware found in Arch User Repository |
| • Issue 1132 (2025-07-28): deepin 25, wars in the open source community, proposal to have Fedora enable Flathub repository, FreeBSD plans desktop install option, Wayback gets its first release |
| • Issue 1131 (2025-07-21): HeliumOS 10.0, settling on one distro, Mint plans new releases, Arch discovers malware in AUR, Plasma Bigscreen returns, Clear Linux discontinued |
| • Issue 1130 (2025-07-14): openSUSE MicroOS and RefreshOS, sharing aliases between computers, Bazzite makes Bazaar its default Flatpak store, Alpine plans Wayback release, Wayland and X11 benchmarked, Red Hat offers additional developer licenses, openSUSE seeks feedback from ARM users, Ubuntu 24.10 reaches the end of its life |
| • Issue 1129 (2025-07-07): GLF OS Omnislash, the worst Linux distro, Alpine introduces Wayback, Fedora drops plans to stop i686 support, AlmaLinux builds EPEL repository for older CPUs, Ubuntu dropping existing RISC-V device support, Rhino partners with UBports, PCLinuxOS recovering from website outage |
| • Issue 1128 (2025-06-30): AxOS 25.06, AlmaLinux OS 10.0, transferring Flaptak bundles to off-line computers, Ubuntu to boost Intel graphics performance, Fedora considers dropping i686 packages, SDesk switches from SELinux to AppArmor |
| • Issue 1127 (2025-06-23): LastOSLinux 2025-05-25, most unique Linux distro, Haiku stabilises, KDE publishes Plasma 6.4, Arch splits Plasma packages, Slackware infrastructure migrating |
| • Issue 1126 (2025-06-16): SDesk 2025.05.06, renewed interest in Ubuntu Touch, a BASIC device running NetBSD, Ubuntu dropping X11 GNOME session, GNOME increases dependency on systemd, Google holding back Pixel source code, Nitrux changing its desktop, EFF turns 35 |
| • Issue 1125 (2025-06-09): RHEL 10, distributions likely to survive a decade, Murena partners with more hardware makers, GNOME tests its own distro on real hardware, Redox ports GTK and X11, Mint provides fingerprint authentication |
| • Issue 1124 (2025-06-02): Picking up a Pico, tips for protecting privacy, Rhino tests Plasma desktop, Arch installer supports snapshots, new features from UBports, Ubuntu tests monthly snapshots |
| • Issue 1123 (2025-05-26): CRUX 3.8, preventing a laptop from sleeping, FreeBSD improves laptop support, Fedora confirms GNOME X11 session being dropped, HardenedBSD introduces Rust in userland build, KDE developing a virtual machine manager |
| • Issue 1122 (2025-05-19): GoboLinux 017.01, RHEL 10.0 and Debian 12 updates, openSUSE retires YaST, running X11 apps on Wayland |
| • Issue 1121 (2025-05-12): Bluefin 41, custom file manager actions, openSUSE joins End of 10 while dropping Deepin desktop, Fedora offers tips for building atomic distros, Ubuntu considers replacing sudo with sudo-rs |
| • Issue 1120 (2025-05-05): CachyOS 250330, what it means when a distro breaks, Kali updates repository key, Trinity receives an update, UBports tests directory encryption, Gentoo faces losing key infrastructure |
| • Issue 1119 (2025-04-28): Ubuntu MATE 25.04, what is missing from Linux, CachyOS ships OCCT, Debian enters soft freeze, Fedora discusses removing X11 session from GNOME, Murena plans business services, NetBSD on a Wii |
| • Issue 1118 (2025-04-21): Fedora 42, strange characters in Vim, Nitrux introduces new package tools, Fedora extends reproducibility efforts, PINE64 updates multiple devices running Debian |
| • Issue 1117 (2025-04-14): Shebang 25.0, EndeavourOS 2025.03.19, running applications from other distros on the desktop, Debian gets APT upgrade, Mint introduces OEM options for LMDE, postmarketOS packages GNOME 48 and COSMIC, Redox testing USB support |
| • Issue 1116 (2025-04-07): The Sense HAT, Android and mobile operating systems, FreeBSD improves on laptops, openSUSE publishes many new updates, Fedora appoints new Project Leader, UBports testing VoLTE |
| • Issue 1115 (2025-03-31): GrapheneOS 2025, the rise of portable package formats, MidnightBSD and openSUSE experiment with new package management features, Plank dock reborn, key infrastructure projects lose funding, postmarketOS to focus on reliability |
| • Issue 1114 (2025-03-24): Bazzite 41, checking which processes are writing to disk, Rocky unveils new Hardened branch, GNOME 48 released, generating images for the Raspberry Pi |
| • Issue 1113 (2025-03-17): MocaccinoOS 1.8.1, how to contribute to open source, Murena extends on-line installer, Garuda tests COSMIC edition, Ubuntu to replace coreutils with Rust alternatives, Chimera Linux drops RISC-V builds |
| • Issue 1112 (2025-03-10): Solus 4.7, distros which work with Secure Boot, UBports publishes bug fix, postmarketOS considers a new name, Debian running on Android |
| • Issue 1111 (2025-03-03): Orbitiny 0.01, the effect of Ubuntu Core Desktop, Gentoo offers disk images, elementary OS invites feature ideas, FreeBSD starts PinePhone Pro port, Mint warns of upcoming Firefox issue |
| • Issue 1110 (2025-02-24): iodeOS 6.0, learning to program, Arch retiring old repositories, openSUSE makes progress on reproducible builds, Fedora is getting more serious about open hardware, Tails changes its install instructions to offer better privacy, Murena's de-Googled tablet goes on sale |
| • Issue 1109 (2025-02-17): Rhino Linux 2025.1, MX Linux 23.5 with Xfce 4.20, replacing X.Org tools with Wayland tools, GhostBSD moving its base to FreeBSD -RELEASE, Redox stabilizes its ABI, UBports testing 24.04, Asahi changing its leadership, OBS in dispute with Fedora |
| • Issue 1108 (2025-02-10): Serpent OS 0.24.6, Aurora, sharing swap between distros, Peppermint tries Void base, GTK removinglegacy technologies, Red Hat plans more AI tools for Fedora, TrueNAS merges its editions |
| • Full list of all issues |
| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
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| Random Distribution | 
Clear Linux
Clear Linux was a minimal distribution primarily designed with performance and cloud use-cases in mind. The operating system upgrades as a whole rather than using individual packages. Extra software can be added to the system (along with associated dependencies) using pre-compiled bundles which can be accessed through the distribution's swupd software manager.
Status: Discontinued
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| TUXEDO |
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| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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