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1 • deeppin & init (by vern on 2020-10-05 00:17:41 GMT from United States)
I've installed deep a long while ago, and it took me a while to get it setup the way I want. I had little issues, but after a while I opted for Ubuntu in the end. I did really enjoy using deep, and may try it again.
As far as init goes, this should get a lot of response this week. It reminds me of politics & religion.
I use Ubuntu, so its Systemd, but Ironically I remove Snaps and NEVER use them.
2 • deepin (by vern on 2020-10-05 00:19:05 GMT from United States)
I meant deepin. By the way, I have tried the curreent version 20.
3 • deepin (by exploder on 2020-10-05 00:44:10 GMT from United States)
I tried deepin a while back, the developers do some nice work! The forum was very friendly also. Deepin does a great job with the look and feel and their custom apps are very good. Nice to see a review on this distro and the excellent progress it has made,
4 • runit (by Andy Prough on 2020-10-05 01:36:50 GMT from United States)
For anyone looking to try a distro with runit, I recommend the antiX runit version. It stays close enough to its Debian base that running the system is very simple for most users, and it has access to all of Debian's vast software along with its own amazing live usb tools. In terms of speed, it is a bit shocking the first time you watch it boot up or start up an otherwise slow program. Often, before I can get my fingers over the home row on the keyboard, antiX runit is already up and waiting for me like I'm the slow one.
5 • PID 1 and several options beyond systemd - some notes (by linuxer on 2020-10-05 02:00:24 GMT from Greece)
Artix Linux covers three main systemd-free init systems, OpenRC, Runit and s6.
Regarding Snaps, the distributions that truly need them, are Ubuntu itself, and the Ubuntu based ones.
For Artix Linux, just use AUR.
6 • Deepin theming (by Hoos on 2020-10-05 04:19:08 GMT from Singapore)
The revamped Deepin seems to have very limited theming options. It's either Light, Auto or Dark variations of their preinstalled theme.
The older Deepin versions permitted other themes to be applied.
That is one of the changes I did not welcome.
7 • Artix shows the pure speed of non systemd (by JJ on 2020-10-05 04:30:45 GMT from Japan)
I have been running Artix with KDE and OpenRC. It boots blindingly fast. This simpler init system is still leagues faster than systemd, but also systemd based systems tend to go and try to launch far too many other things in the background.
I've also tried Artix with runit and s6, and yes, faster.
FreeBSD also boots super fast.
I have no religious problem with systemd but I do frown upon its messiness and incompleteness. Simpler init systems are faster and lighter generally.
8 • DDE on a laptop. (by Tran Older on 2020-10-05 04:38:16 GMT from Vietnam)
On a Dell Latitude core i5, ranks could be as follows :
1. UbuntuDDE 20.4.1 (kernel 5.4, DDE 15.11). I removed apport, which was an Ubuntu issue. The DDE 15.11 Raven-style control panel is more handy on a laptop than that of DDE 20.
2. Garuda Deepin lite edition (kernel 5.8, DDE 20).
3. Archman Deepin (kernel 5.8, DDE 20) & DDE 20 installed on ArcoLinux (kernel 5.8).
Both Arch-based are faster than Garuda but Garuda provides an OOTB
experience for new users.
4. deepin 20 (kernel 5.7, DDE 20). App Store sill has broken Enlish.
5. DDE 20 installed on Manjaro 20.1 Openbox (kernel 5.8), by using sudo pacman -S deepin in xterm.
9 • Correction (by Tran Older on 2020-10-05 04:46:06 GMT from Vietnam)
App Store still has broken English.
10 • deepin (by Anon on 2020-10-05 04:48:12 GMT from Philippines)
Seeing the performance of the deepin distro and desktop improve over the years has been nice. I still remember the time when I tested it and it proved to be a resource hog - I'm really happy about the constant progress its devs are making. Now in 2020 I can confidently say the deepin desktop is a contender for the "lightweight" choices when it comes to running it on old/low spec hardware (which is all that I have). I also appreciate the Debian base of the distro; Debian has everything after all. Though the experience on Ubuntu DDE edition is also nice. Overall, it's a promising desktop and project, and I hope it gets even more support and popularity.
11 • Re: deepin (by eco2geek on 2020-10-05 06:13:48 GMT from United States)
If you're interested in running deepin live from the installation media, you should also change the locale to "en_US.UTF-8" (the locale on the default command line starts it in Chinese).
Personally I'm not a huge fan of deepin's home-grown applications (e.g. Music, File Manager, etc). Then again I'm pretty sure I could either get used to them or install others from the Debian repositories.
12 • Go Deep (by Mark on 2020-10-05 08:33:36 GMT from Canada)
I dont run the deepin desktop, but I use some of their custom apps, which are simple and useful. Deepin Images handles webp pics. Deepin Screenshot is a fav too.
13 • Deepin (by lupus on 2020-10-05 09:28:17 GMT from Germany)
I'm very disappointed that the raven style control panel seems to be gone for good. Deepin has been my favorite Desktop Environment for a long time and the control panel with quick access to everything was one reason besides the beauty. I think Budgie Desktop will be my fallback.
14 • Deepin 20 (by rich52 on 2020-10-05 12:50:16 GMT from United States)
I've tried Deepin 20 (Arch) version several times and liked how it performed and installed. Biggest problem was at times the software updates at times were incomplete and crashed my system so I gave up on it and went back to EndeavorOS cinnamon desktop. I did like the desktop interface and it was easy to navigate. For the most part it was smooth and worked rather well. I think once it has matured more with fewer bugs I may go back to it and attempt it again. It isn't as busy as KDE and it seems to offer more than Gnome desktop. My experience with it wasn't too bad and it's worth the attempt to use on a daily basis if it is kept up to date and bug free with the latest software versions.
15 • Desktop Environment (by voidpin on 2020-10-05 13:15:12 GMT from Sweden)
"One of the key components Linux users look at when selecting which distribution to run is the desktop environment."
Indeed, I always look for one that offers an option to install WITHOUT a desktop environment.
16 • DDE (by Ankleface Wroughlandmire on 2020-10-05 13:24:16 GMT from Ecuador)
I appreciate many aspects of the Deepin Desktop Environment (DDE), and I would like to run it. The problem is that I am an openSUSE user, and the dev that was trying to package DDE for openSUSE recently gave up out of frustration. He claims that the quality of the upstream code is extremely poor, and this makes it difficult to package for other non-Debian distros.
17 • Voted no (by Friar Tux on 2020-10-05 13:44:05 GMT from Canada)
I voted no Deepin. I was a KDE fan until a couple of years ago when KDE started glitching and bricking my machine. I tried the Cinnamon DE and fell in love with it (ironically, I hate the actual cinnamon taste/flavour). The Cinnamon DE seems to be in tune with how I work so it's a perfect fit. As for how great the Deepin DE looks. That's really a none issue as you can fiddle with any DE and make it look what you opine as great. I've stopped hunting for themes since I discover the Oomox Theme Builder. For me, after a bit of experimentation, it produces some really great looking themes.
I noticed some of the commenters, before me, write about the speed of certain distros. Being retired, and having lots of time to do nothing in, I was never really concerned about the speed of a distro - until I tried PCLinuxOS. I tried three flavours - KDE5, Trinity, and Mate. And... man... were... they... slow... Noticeably slow. Very noticeably slow. I learned something that day.
18 • KDE and using it versus Deepin (by Bobbie Sellers on 2020-10-05 15:17:48 GMT from United States)
I have used Deepin an older version running on hardware and in a virtual machine.
I use KDE with PCLinuxOS 64 2020.09 and in my virtual machine I run MX-19.2 with KDE.
I use used machines either refurbished or in good condition, simply because I cannot afford
the high specification machines which I prefer new.
You do not mention the specifications of your machine on which you found PCLinuxOS64 slow?
You may think that KDE is slow but it is by testing faster than most alternatives.
It takes up a bit more room on the fixed disk but less memory in use.
These are the specs of this machine: Dell E6540 with HD display
CPU: Quad Core Intel Core i7-4800MQ (-MT MCP-) speed/min/max: 1254/800/3700 MHz Kernel: 5.8.13-pclos1 x86_64 Up: 2d 8h 02m Mem: 6432.2/15927.8 MiB (40.4%) Storage: 4.09 TiB (28.1% used) Procs: 318 Shell: inxi: 3.1.04 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 06) and VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Mars XTX [Radeon HD 8790M] 500 GB spinning rust for the fixed disk.
I wonder if when you found your PCLinuxOS 64 attempts running slow if you bothered
to go to the PCLinux Forum to seek assistance. I wonder how long ago you tried out
KDE's Desktop Environment whether it was 3.9,x, 4.x.x or Plasma 5 updated.
<https://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php>.
bliss - C=64 to Amiga to Mandriva to PCLinuxOS 64 with a few diversions along the way.
19 • Deepin Popularity (by Bobbie Sellers on 2020-10-05 15:23:56 GMT from United States)
I wonder how many users from Asian nations are represented here?
I think that Deepin has been intended for Asian users along with Ubuntu Kylin.
Certainly I download it for the LUG so that if we have requests for a distribution
accommodating Asian languages there is an iso file at hand for support.
bliss-SF-LUG meeting via Jit.se meeting while Covid-19 controls out socialization
20 • PCLinuxOS and PID1 (by David on 2020-10-05 15:54:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
I too am surprised at some-one finding PCLinuxOS slow. I'm running it on an AMD A6, which is roughly comparable with an Intel i-3 and the performance is fine. Of course, I do have the Xfce desktop, which probably helps.
The use of System V init doesn't seem to slow the boot, which takes less than 10 seconds. As for the difference between that and systemd, I'd agree that few ordinary users would notice the difference. In the last 20 years, I've only twice had to fiddle with init — once with System V, once with systemd, and neither was rocket science.
One thing about systemd is that it is normally required to run Gnome (unless you add some special tools to emulate some of its features) — no great loss, I'd say..
21 • Deepin - what is its USP? (by curious on 2020-10-05 15:55:38 GMT from Germany)
Deepin / DDE looks nice and actually usable, now that they have optimized the performance and replaced the ugly phone-style fullscreen thing with a proper menu.
But what really distinguishes it from the other popular desktop environments? "Pretty" isn't really an argument - with the right theme, I am sure you could make KDE (or Cinnamon, or ...) look just like DDE. So why should anyone prefer Deepin?
@17 slow PCLinuxOS: You are lucky that you got it running at all. PCLOS is, in my experience, very picky about hardware. While I like its concept (slow-rolling, conservative, focus on ease-of-use), I was never able to boot it except in a VM, so I finally gave up on it in 2018.
22 • Review thought (by CS on 2020-10-05 16:26:39 GMT from United States)
"wireless networking functioned out of the box" -- well that's... good.
Jesse - wanted to throw out an idea -- these days I hardly go a working day without a Zoom or Webex video call, maybe others are finding themselves in the same state. I would be interested to know which distros do well or poorly at video conferencing. Anyone else?
23 • DDE on other distros (by harbl on 2020-10-05 18:05:31 GMT from Philippines)
This is more a word of caution that probably also applies to any other DE that is classified "below official support" on a rolling release distro. While I don't personally use DDE myself, I check the forums for official update notes regularly as I use Manjaro. I remember not too long ago when Manjaro updated one of the libraries (Qt iirc) and DDE users started reporting errors on their end. Long story short, DDE users had to roll back their systems and hold back from updates until DDE released updates that use the new libraries. I don't know how long the DDE users had to wait until the updates to DDE were available. The Manjaro team couldn't do much but tell them to roll back because Manjaro supports KDE officially while DDE was only a community release, so it made sense for them to prioritize KDE users. I use Cinnamon, which also falls outside of Manjaro's officially supported DEs, so this incident was a healthy dose of heads up to me.
24 • PcLinuxOS (by GreginNC on 2020-10-05 21:17:17 GMT from United States)
No idea why so many in the comments are talking about PcLinux but since they are here's my experience.
I've used PcLinux from the first release in 2007 until 2010, used Slackware from 2010 until it went into permanent beta a couple years back and have run PcLinux since that time.
In all the years I've used it I never had any issue with slow booting or it being "picky" about hardware, and I have installed it on dozens of different system myself and recommended it to others and never heard a complaint from any of them.
It does have its flaws like any other OS, but still is one of if not the most trouble free distros available.
25 • deepin 20 (by Gekxxx on 2020-10-06 03:20:05 GMT from Belgium)
I use D20 now. Really stable and support for UEFI is great. Only thing is the appstore often show apps which are not installable. One needs Flatpak. This is, once used too, a great distro. Recommended. Full support for Brother printers through Brother Printer Install Tool. Happy Deepin to all!
26 • @22 - distro for zoom, videoconferencing (by Andy Prough on 2020-10-06 05:26:41 GMT from United States)
@22 - "these days I hardly go a working day without a Zoom or Webex video call, maybe others are finding themselves in the same state. I would be interested to know which distros do well or poorly at video conferencing. Anyone else?"
MX is the best I've found with videoconferencing apps. They also make it easier to install them with special scripts in their MX Package Installer.
27 • PCLinuxOS (by pyjujiop on 2020-10-06 06:25:52 GMT from United States)
I've used it off and on for a decade, on all sorts of different hardware, and never once had any problems installing it or performance issues with it. The admin gets a little crotchety about people asking him to support very old machinery, but I've got it running on 10 year-old laptops with less problems than making Win10 run on them.
If you just want everything as easy as possible, then install plain-jane Ubuntu or Mint and be done with it. But three of the four computers here are running PCLOS.
28 • Zoom (by Dave Postles on 2020-10-06 12:52:14 GMT from United Kingdom)
I usually download it from the Zoom download site and install it with gdebi. I can find no way of running Zoom on BSD.
29 • Zoom (by whoKnows on 2020-10-06 16:10:10 GMT from Switzerland)
28 • Zoom (by Dave Postles)
"I can find no way of running Zoom on BSD."
https://www.davidschlachter.com/misc/freebsd-videoconferencing
https://zoom.us/download?os=linux
30 • Can o' worms... (by Friar Tux on 2020-10-06 21:40:44 GMT from Canada)
Hmmm, it appears I opened up a can o' worms. I commented on what worked slow for me. Period. I didn't disparage any distro. And yes, PCLOS was noticeably slow - and if THIS old geezer notices it, then it's slow. And as @27 (pyjujiop) suggested, I went back to Mint. Uh-tha-tha-tha-that's all folks. Move along, nothing to see here.
31 • Deepin' tracking? (by Jeff TIncher on 2020-10-06 23:37:34 GMT from United States)
In the past Deepin has had some press about China using Deepin to track user information and use it to hack. Was that ever the case?
32 • deepin (by Jesse on 2020-10-07 00:15:31 GMT from Canada)
@31: "In the past Deepin has had some press about China using Deepin to track user information and use it to hack. Was that ever the case?"
The short answer is no, there has never been any evidence to support this idea.
The longer answer is that virtually every operating system does something to leak data. Whether it's checking repositories for updates, sending search strings to on-line search engines, submitting hardware profiles, most web browsers identify their OS and can be fingerprinted, etc.
One person, for example, once claimed deepin's software manager had machine-specific information that could be used to track the user. However, this was basically due to the nature of queries being sent and does not appear to have been an effort to track users. In the past I think deepin shipped with Chrome which defaults to sending telemetry to Google, though they've switched default browsers now.
Neither of these is really specific to deepin (versus other Linux distributions) and none of it appears to be connected to the Chinese government. Unless someone comes up with some source code which shows unusual tracking features (beyond what other distros include) I'd say such claims are baseless.
33 • Zoom @28 (by Ex Zoomer on 2020-10-07 09:38:22 GMT from United States)
Open-source qtox and retroshare do video calls. They run on BSD and all other desktop platforms. Android qtox exists too; not yet iOS.
34 • Deepin tracking (by Otis on 2020-10-07 14:25:27 GMT from United States)
@31 Just assume that your activities and hardware are known and being tracked, as Jesse brings out in @32. By governments? I assume that, too and yes it does affect my social media posts, etc.
35 • Left out... (about tracking)... (by Otis on 2020-10-07 14:27:33 GMT from United States)
...We're on the internet, and everybody has access to the internet now, including governments.
36 • Debian+Cinnamon package issue sorted (by James on 2020-10-08 20:18:53 GMT from New Zealand)
Reading the news on Debian + Cinnamon made me spill tea on laptop screen and issue some fine upstanding words of the english language.
Anyway here's an update from package maintainer:
Update 2020-09-30: The post has created considerable movement, and a PR request by Fedora developers to rebase cjs onto more current gjs and libmozjs78 is being tested. I have uploaded packages of cinnamon and cjs to experimental based on these patches (400 files, about 50000 lines of code touched, not what I normally like to have in a debian patch) and would appreciate testing and feedback.
Updated blog post link below:
https://www.preining.info/blog/2020/09/cinnamon-for-debian-imminent-removal-from-testing/
I'll load it to my laptop and see how it goes.
37 • Deepin desktop (by dude on 2020-10-08 21:57:10 GMT from United States)
I never knew Deepin had a different desktop environment. I think it looks good and I'll have to give it a try. I'm always looking for alternatives to the Gnome3 desktop environment, without the horrible Activities Overlay. I'm currently using Xfce, because it seems to be the most well supported alternative.
38 • in to the deep end (by fonz on 2020-10-09 03:30:56 GMT from Indonesia)
very curious to see how deepin handles as the review says it sits idly at around ~400MB, and lots of people giving it good comments. currently im giving KDE (and later, maybe budgie) a spin and its at ~600MB on MX. much more feature packed than XFCE/LXQT, but they sit at ~400MB, KDE has really gone far in like a year. back then both NUMB3 and KDE5 were idling at +1GB. it feels like GTK is becoming more 'fisher pricey' while QT is adding more stuff (which i prefer).
rereading the march solus review, ive never successfully installed solus. i guess its just pickyer compared to other distros ive tried so far, and thats not straying to the BSD yet. any thoughts on budgie?
39 • Deepin Desktop (by brucef on 2020-10-09 07:43:15 GMT from Australia)
I have used both the Deepin OS as well as other distros using the Deepin Desktop (DDE) - but not the current version 20. It must be appreciated that there was considerable delay in introducing the current version and the previous OS and DDE were stagnant for an extended period. I found that the DDE on other distros often appeared to lack some features. There are two issues that detracted from the previous and current versions. It was suggested that the previous version was spyware, transmitting data via the package manager. This was probably never verified. However the current problem is a definite. Deepin OS is not subject to a GNU licence and has a very lengthy, and some would say a rather offensive EULA. Out of principle, I refuse to accept the terms of the EULA - which means that I can never install it.
40 • @39, deepin EULA (by Juan de la Cruz on 2020-10-09 10:12:03 GMT from Philippines)
No a big fan of deepin, but less of a fan of misinformation. deepin community edition is published under GPL3.
Deepin Technology grants to you a perpetual, worldwide, and non-exclusive license to the software pursuant to this EULA and “GNU General Public License” (Version 3). The software may contain the components compiled by third-party developers in accordance with the corresponding open source license Each software component is undera license located in its source code, which should be conformed to when using it.
https://www.deepin.org/en/2018/12/29/eula/
41 • Inits (by Cheker on 2020-10-09 11:40:08 GMT from Portugal)
Both of my daily drivers have systemd by default. I understand and respect the skepticism towards it, but I don't particularly care. Sometimes I look at other inits (recently OpenRC under Artix) when I feel like learning something, because most of what I know in terms of managing services is inevitably geared towards systemd. I feel it's good to know more than one init, in that sense.
42 • RAM (by missTell on 2020-10-09 13:31:55 GMT from Switzerland)
@ 38 • in to the deep end (by fonz)
If what “sits” around “where” is all that interests you, then you can save yourself from trying Solus.
https://ibb.co/Mshmkcf
However, if you want to correctly compare those “naked” numbers, then you also need some solid understanding of memory management (caching!) — “naked” numbers aren't wort much.
Normal values for ...
XFCE — 200 ~ 250 MB https://ibb.co/6JTqxpT and https://ibb.co/xfRJ5yQ
KDE — 400 ~ 450 MB https://ibb.co/r2VyKmF
There is also improved version of KDE Plasma, which uses approx. 200 MB (“Fly”, Astra Orel).
https://ibb.co/0Dc6Mxn
43 • Inits .... inits everywhere (by MrSchnappyMcFlappy on 2020-10-09 14:44:25 GMT from Mexico)
Not that my opinion matters in the slightest, but..... when it comes to inits I think we should be given the choice upon installation.
Just like with a NetInstall where we can choose the desktop we want, I think we should be given a choice which init we want. There is a strong anti-SystemD percentage of the Linux population but who don't use a non-SystemD distro because they are too complicated to install or just don't work properly. So the majority maybe begrudgingly, choose Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora when they would rather use something else.
MxLinux is the only distro I know that gives users a choice of Init. Why can't others implement the same feature?
44 • Init choice (by Jesse on 2020-10-09 14:54:03 GMT from Canada)
@43: "MxLinux is the only distro I know that gives users a choice of Init. Why can't others implement the same feature?"
The short answer is because almost no one thinks the issue is important enough to implement init choice at run time. Linux distributions are mostly made by volunteers and they work on issues that interest them. No one is volunteering to either work on or pay anyone to do this.
Another factor is the complexity. You can install any number of desktop environments on a distro and the system still works the same. The desktop is a layer on top of the OS. Init is a core component of the OS, it's at the very core of things, and it affects all the low level services. You don't only need to package init, you also need to package alternative services like elogind, make sure desktops work with the new init, write initscripts for each service. It's hundreds of hours of work in some cases. (And again, no one is paying for it.)
In addition, if you want to package a new desktop for a distro you can just install its packages and you're good to go. It doesn't affect your OS and you can install as many as you want without breaking anything (most of the time). With init you need to set up a separate install or VM for every init implementation you want to test/package or risk conflicts.
45 • Cinnamon (by mango on 2020-10-09 16:50:25 GMT from Philippines)
@36
I don't know why, but I also got interested in following this news. If you look at the bug report thread for this issue on github, Clem already joined the discussion and said they're gonna prioritize fixing this. It was actually an interesting read even if I know next to nothing about developing DE's or maintaining packages.
46 • Deepin and User Tracking (by dude on 2020-10-09 19:43:13 GMT from United States)
I don't think it matters which OS or graphical interface you use. They'll find some way to track you anyways. Android and Windows aren't "safe" either.
47 • Init choices and things (by Great Alexander the Barbarian on 2020-10-10 11:00:17 GMT from Germany)
Init choice on installation:
Artix has 3 on board, you can boot up an Artix-S6 image and install the same or runit or openrc. Edit your pacman.conf file and un(b)lock the core Arch repository and install Arch's default. That easy.
Void has s6 and a marvel of a service management system on repository but no service files yet (can be borrowed from another system), in parallel to its official void.
Obarun: is the display case for s6 at work for 6 years now, the first and for a long time the only publicly available distro running s6 super stably (like granite). Now also found in Adelie, Void, and Artix. Edit pacman.conf, remove the blocking of systemd and libs, and install it from arch repositories that are all enabled in obarun. Reboot ... See how your performance benchmarks drop with something "popular". Obarun's corrected software will run on systemd, systemd-only arch software will not run without obarun's corrections (as in closer to what the developer issued and not what Arch tied to systemd).
Antix: Has published a runit demonstration image, just to show how easy it is to do. On debian it is easy to "drop" to systemd, staying away from it is the art that Antix has demonstrated. MX is just a fluffy entry level linux user modification of Antix. The core in MX is antix, the desktop themes come from MX. In MX systemd being installed doesn't necesseraly means that it is active.
Spark linux: Basically arch and the minimalist sinit init system and its homegrown superminimalist service supervision called ssm. Other than this it is basically Arch and you are on your own on things that will not work without systemd present. In size if systemd is 10, s6 is 3, runit is 2.5, and sinit is 0.8. But, like Einstein said, about things being as simple as necessary, just not any simpler.
Can you run several init systems and or mixture of init and service supervisors/managers? Yes. Basically on all linux the kernel image is loaded and looks for /sbin/init or /usr/sbin/init, or /usr/bin/init ... and in some cases it is a binary, in some it is a 2 line script pointing to the init system, or can be a link to it. So you can have 3-4 init systems installed, and just switch the pointer to the one you want for next boot (also move/rename power functions as reboot,poweroff,halt,shutdown). As far as I know no init can displace or replace another on the fly. There is no real reason to anyway, it defeats the purpose. Once the init process is complete then come services and daemons. From as simple as a tty to as complicated as a bundle of services and modules. You can boot with sinit and then use runit to supervise services, You can boot runit and have 66 supervise services, you can boot s6 and have ssm (Spark's serv.mgmt) ... and so on.
98% of linux users choose not to have anything to do with this part of the system, they see a DM coming up, login and choose desktop. The fun and the art of linux comes in this core system that can be less than 1GB. Whatever else you load past that point is basically like things you shove in the trunk or the back seat of a car till its suspension collapses. Some people like and need a limo, some like a bicycle. But using a 4 axle heavy-haul tractor to drag a surfboard is a bit "eccentric"?
There is also minit, and other forks of daemontools.
Popularity: DW contradicts itself and its own readers. Was it one or two years ago it run a vote on init systems, and systemd didn't win? The top 4 competitors of systemd took 60% of the vote. So what is popular in the "market" and what is popular among DW readers, can be two separate things. So is DW reporting popularity based on its marketing agenda or its assessment of actual readers' choices. Tiny details like this can make a huge difference. If "media" keep reporting that choice Z is the most popular, even though it ranks 5th in sales, soon enough Z WILL BECOME most popular. If choice K is most popular but spends 0 on marketing, it will drop to the word of mouth about what is best, but will drop, despite of being best.
So, do we care about what is most popular or what is best? Do developers make software built on the assumption this platform is best, most popular, or makes more sense? You give too much credit to developers that craft desktop "toys".
48 • @47 Init choices.... (by Hoos on 2020-10-10 11:24:06 GMT from Singapore)
@47: "Antix: Has published a runit demonstration image, just to show how easy it is to do. On debian it is easy to "drop" to systemd, staying away from it is the art that Antix has demonstrated. MX is just a fluffy entry level linux user modification of Antix. The core in MX is antix, the desktop themes come from MX. In MX systemd being installed doesn't necesseraly means that it is active....
Can you run several init systems and or mixture of init and service supervisors/managers? Yes. Basically on all linux the kernel image is loaded and looks for /sbin/init or /usr/sbin/init, or /usr/bin/init ... and in some cases it is a binary, in some it is a 2 line script pointing to the init system, or can be a link to it. So you can have 3-4 init systems installed, and just switch the pointer to the one you want for next boot (also move/rename power functions as reboot,poweroff,halt,shutdown). As far as I know no init can displace or replace another on the fly......"
Although MX is based on antiX, there is a significant difference in the init part of things. antiX does not contain systemd packages and is thus truly systemd-free, Its normal init is sysV, but like you said, there is a runit iso version.
MX contains systemd packages but by default uses sysV init. However, without "...switch[ing] the pointer to the one you want for next boot (also move/rename power functions as reboot,poweroff,halt,shutdown)...." or editing any file or installing any further packages, the MX user can simply reboot and at the grub menu, choose the menu entry for booting into systemd.
This was possible only because pre-Debian Buster, Debian did have a system-shim package that allowed sysV and systemd to both exist on the system. Debian didn't update it for Buster, but MX did for its own repos.
49 • Init systems... (by Friar Tux on 2020-10-10 14:09:12 GMT from Canada)
I find all this banter about init systems interesting. I am, however, with Jesse on this one. It really doesn't matter to me what starts my machine so long as I get to the desktop to do what I need to do. I also find it interesting that the most disparaged init system is the most used. (Notice I didn't say popular.) Having said all that, I do believe one of the joys of running Linux is that you can fiddle and tweak under the hood to your heart's content. So if the init system drives you batty for whatever reason, then switch it out, re-muddle it, do what you think best with it. Or use a distro that uses the init you like best. I see this whole Linux thing like a warehouse full of auto parts. I can take any part from most any shelf and part it together with any other part I deem fit, to build myself a super-car. Or, I can take an existing car and re-muddle it to what I feel I like. This is Linux at it's best. Linux + opinions = variety.
50 • init flavors (by vern on 2020-10-10 14:52:13 GMT from United States)
@49 "I also find it interesting that the most disparaged init system is the most used"
That's because the minority speaks the loudest. The majority just use their system as is without further ado.
51 • minority/majority (by Otis on 2020-10-10 20:00:16 GMT from United States)
@49 @50 with regard to inits with that logic of "That's because the minority speaks the loudest. The majority just use their system as is without further ado" should we use it for Linux vs Windows?
52 • Tracking vs REALLY TRACKING (by Juan de la Cruz on 2020-10-11 01:37:11 GMT from Philippines)
I'd say Jesse is probably correct about deepin tracking. But deepin does have a commercial version which adheres to the laws and regulations of the PRC. Here's what that can mean:
There's a new Chinese browser (Tuber) which allows people on the mainland to access such nefarious content as YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, et al. Of course there's a catch. "Registration requires a Chinese phone number, which is tied to a person's real identity. The platform could suspend users' accounts and share their data "with the relevant authorities" if they "actively watch or share" content that breaches the constitution, endangers national security and sovereignty, spreads rumors, disrupts social orders or violates other local laws, according to the app's terms of service."
Some people here are bothered or worried about being tracked by Google, or even the NSA. Bah! Compared to the CCP, they are piddling amateurs.
Note: I am posting anonymously on a VPN in case. (Just kidding!)
Number of Comments: 52
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