 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 882, 7 September 2020 |
Welcome to this year's 36th issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
Nix is a portable package manager with a rapidly growing repository of software that compliments its many powerful features. Using Nix we can configure an operating system, install portable packages, enjoy atomic updates, and navigate snapshots of installed packages. The NixOS distribution showcases Nix and some of its powerful system administration features. We explore NixOS in our Feature Story this week and look at some of its commonly used features. Have you run Nix, either as part of NixOS or on another distribution? Let us know about it in our Opinion Poll. In our News section we discuss the Manjaro distribution coming to the low-cost PinePhone as the Fedora distribution becomes available on Lenovo laptops. Plus the Linux Mint team is making its Warpinator file sharing tool available as a Flatpak and we link to details below. Then we discuss the philosophy and structure of Linux distributions and why these aspects of many projects are difficult to quantify in our Questions and Answers column. We are also pleased to share the new releases of the past week and list the torrents we are seeding. We wish you all a terrific week and happy reading!
Content:
- Review: NixOS 20.03
- News: Manjaro running on a PinePhone, Fedora coming to Lenovo laptops, Mint publishes Warpinator as a Flatpak
- Questions and answers: Distribution members, donations, and governance structure
- Released last week: Q4OS 3.12, EasyOS 2.4.1, Garuda Linux 200831
- Torrent corner: Arch Linux, CloudReady, EasyOS, Endless OS, Garuda Linux, IPFire, Nitrux, Q4OS, RebornOS, SparkyLinux, Ubuntu DesktopPack
- Opinion poll: Using the Nix package manager
- Reader comments
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (15MB) and MP3 (12MB) formats.
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
NixOS 20.03
NixOS is a Linux distribution with a special approach to package and configuration management. NixOS is built on top of the Nix package manager which is declarative and makes upgrading systems reliable by way of atomic updates and package snapshots. Nix also provides the ability to roll forwards and backwards through package snapshots, which it calls generations, allowing the administrator to rollback changes or move forward through available versions. Since package transactions are atomic this means upgrades and installations will not break the operating system if a crash or power failure occurs. The administrator can simply revert back to the original snapshot of the installed packages.
Nix can use declarative configuration, meaning we can use the same system configuration file on multiple machines to have them all set up the same way without needing to use disk cloning.
There are over 60,000 packages in the Nix repository. Since Nix can be installed on most Linux distributions, this provides a great repository of software to any distribution where we care to install the Nix package manager.
Back in 2017 I talked about running Nix on Debian. Back then the Nix repository had just 12,860 packages. The repository has grown but the tips on installing and running Nix have remained the same.
There are two editions of NixOS. The first is the Graphical edition which is a 64-bit (x86_64) build and features the KDE Plasma desktop. The Graphical edition is a 1.2GB download. The other edition provides a minimal, command line interface. The smaller edition is available in 32-bit and 64-bit builds and its ISO is approximately 550MB in size.
The latest version of NixOS includes mostly package updates, bringing KDE Plasma and GNOME up to date with their stable upstream versions. ZFS now performs automatic trimming on appropriate storage devices. Meanwhile the Nix package manager recognizes a wider range of services and programs we can enable.
Live media
I decided to try the Graphical edition of NixOS. Booting from the media brings up a menu where we are invited to start the live Plasma desktop with one of three options: normal boot, failsafe mode, or running the distribution from RAM. Selecting any of these options loads the KDE Plasma desktop. A panel holding the application menu, task switcher, and system tray sits at the bottom of the screen. Icons on the desktop launch GParted, open the Konsole virtual terminal, and open the NixOS manual. The manual is a locally stored web page that opens in Firefox. The manual is especially helpful and covers tips on using and installing the operating system. Since NixOS does not have a system installer in the usual sense, I recommend reading the manual to learn how to get started with the operating system.
NixOS 20.03 -- Reading the NixOS manual in Firefox
(full image size: 215kB, resolution: 1366x768 pixels)
Installing
When it comes to installing NixOS the manual points out a few things we need to do up front. For example, we need to have a working Internet connection. We also need to set aside at least one disk partition and format it. These steps are not handled for us, but NixOS includes networking tools and the GParted partition editor to help us.
Once we have the necessary partition, we need to mount it under the /mnt directory and edit the Nix configuration file. This file explains to Nix how to set up the operating system, it's like a recipe. Luckily for us, the file is mostly filled in with good default values. There are also a lot of optional features listed in the file in comments. This allows us to simply edit the existing lines to enable some common services and set up a user account.
Once we have edited the Nix file we run an install script which sets up the operating system, based on the rules outlined in the file. We are also asked to make up a password for the root account. At this point the system is all ready to go and we can reboot to give our local copy of NixOS a try.
Early impressions
Launching my fresh copy of NixOS brought up a graphical login screen. By default the login screen assumes we want to sign in as the first non-root user. However, at this point I hadn't had a chance to set a password on the account and could not sign in as my regular user. We can switch to a console or click a button at the bottom of the screen to login as root and set the user's password.
NixOS 20.03 -- The Plasma desktop and application menu
(full image size: 492kB, resolution: 1366x768 pixels)
Once I signed in as my regular user a KDE Plasma session started. The interface features a light theme with a panel at the bottom of the screen, as it was in the live session. The desktop icons for GParted, Konsole, and the manual are gone. The manual is still installed, we just need to browse the application menu to find it. Also missing is the Firefox web browser. Firefox is present in the live session, but is not included in the installed version of NixOS meaning we cannot open the manual to read it in a browser. We can add a web browser later using the Nix package manager and I will talk about Nix later.
Hardware
I began testing NixOS in VirtualBox and found the system generally worked well. Desktop performance was good and the system was stable. Loading programs and launching the Plasma desktop was slower than average, but the desktop was otherwise responsive. While running in VirtualBox, the Plasma desktop would not resize automatically when I changed the dimensions of its window. However, I could change the desktop's resolution from the System Settings panel. (To be more precise, I could not resize the Plasma desktop at all using VirtualBox's default video settings. I had to switch from VMSVGA to the VBoxVGA controller in my host's settings to be able to resize the desktop.)
When I tried running NixOS on my laptop, the distribution performed well. Programs loaded quickly, my full screen resolution was used, and wireless networking was recognized.
NixOS 20.03 -- Exploring the settings panel with a dark theme
(full image size: 424kB, resolution: 1366x768 pixels)
A fresh install of NixOS is relatively light, using about 370MB of memory when signed into the Plasma desktop. A new install consumed about 4.1GB of disk space. Most of the time, NixOS did not use much CPU though some package management actions used more CPU and disk I/O and could slow down the desktop.
Applications
A fresh install of NixOS with a default configuration includes very few desktop applications. Apart from the Konsole virtual terminal, the KDE Help documentation, and the System Settings desktop configuration panel, there isn't much to be found.
There is no compiler, no web browser, no office suite. In the background we find the usual collection of GNU command line utilities and manual pages. The systemd software is installed and provides the distribution's init program. A fresh install runs on version 5.4 of the Linux kernel.
While running NixOS I noticed that typing the name of a command into the terminal that has not yet been installed causes a message to appear telling us what Nix command we need to run in order to install the missing program. This happens quickly and did not cause much disruption to my workflow.
Early on I found that any time I tried to connect to a new wireless network the system would prompt me for a wallet password. This is an annoying feature and it meant I sometimes had to try to connect multiple times to a new network before the system would accept my wi-fi password without corresponding wallet password.
Nix
While it is possible to use NixOS as a day-to-day operating system, it largely exists as a platform to show off the powerful Nix package manager. For the most part, using Nix feels like using most other command line package managers. We can run "nix-env -i <package name>" to install new software, "nix-env -e <package name>" to remove an item. The "nix-env -u" command updates software and "nix-env -qa <pattern>" searches for software. While the commands we run look familiar and produce similar results to the equivalent APT and pacman actions, Nix does several things differently.
NixOS 20.03 -- Installing new software and browsing package generations
(full image size: 216kB, resolution: 1366x768 pixels)
For instance, Nix installs are atomic, meaning that if the power cuts out partway through an upgrade, nothing bad happens to your packages or the package database. We can just restart the computer and begin the process anew. Another intriguing feature is Nix creates snapshots of its packages. These snapshots are called generations and each time we install, remove, or upgrade software, Nix effectively takes a snapshot of the software we have installed. We can then move almost instantly between package snapshots. In practice, this means we can rollback any change that breaks the system or introduces a bug by running "nix-env --rollback".
We can also move forward into newer snapshots. This is especially handy if we want to test two versions of the same software. We can run the application, rollback to a previous version, then instantly move ahead to a newer snapshot to test the new version again. We can see a list of available snapshots by running "nix-env --list-generations".
One concern some people have about Nix is that these generations will use up extra disk space. However, the extra space is pretty minimal, at least in the short term. The extra space is not even noticeable after a few weeks of installing updates. For those concerned about disk space though we can discard old generations to free up space.
Another nice feature of Nix is that it handles the configuration of the operating system, not just packages. This, combined with Nix's reproducible builds, means we can take the configuration (recipe) file from one computer and use it to install NixOS on another computer. We should end up with identical operating systems on each machine.
In short, Nix is an amazing package manager. These features, along with the ability to run along side other package managers on other distributions, make it a very attractive tool. It does have a few problems though. I found Nix was sometime slow compared to other mainstream package managers and it does not show much progress information. This sometimes makes it look like the nix-env command has stopped working. In fact, it took me a while once to realize the desktop had locked up and stopped responding once when Nix was installing software updates. However, these small issues aside, Nix is quite powerful and useful, especially for people who need extra reliability or who want to be able to quickly rollback software changes.
Conclusions
The NixOS distribution, on its own, does not particularly stand out. Apart from the fact it has a very minimal, and very memory-friendly KDE Plasma session, the distribution (from a practical point of view) does not do much to attract users. NixOS mostly functions as a platform to show off Nix and demonstrate how a distribution can be shaped, managed, and even replicated through its package manager.
The Nix repository has grown by leaps, adding tens of thousands of new packages in the past three years. These packages are reproducible, are installed and upgraded atomically, and can be rolled back (or forward) almost instantly. The Nix approach to keeping software transactions safe while making it easy for us to switch between installed versions of programs makes it very attractive.
In recent years some filesystems, like Btrfs and ZFS, have also added snapshots at the filesystem level, rather than the package manager level. This, to my mind, takes a bite out of one of Nix's main selling features. However, Nix can work with any Linux filesystem, avoiding the overhead of advanced filesystems, and works independently of the distribution (and any other installed package manager). This makes Nix a very attractive way to gain access to more software and provides a way to experiment with new packages with minimal risk. Whether you try NixOS or not, I highly recommend installing and trying Nix, especially if you keep up to date with cutting edge packages and want to protect your system from regressions due to upgrades.
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Hardware used in this review
My physical test equipment for this review was a de-branded HP laptop with the following
specifications:
- Processor: Intel i3 2.5GHz CPU
- Display: Intel integrated video
- Storage: Western Digital 700GB hard drive
- Memory: 6GB of RAM
- Wired network device: Realtek RTL8101E/RTL8102E PCI Express Fast
- Wireless network device: Realtek RTL8188EE Wireless network card
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Visitor supplied rating
NixOS has a visitor supplied average rating of: 9.1/10 from 73 review(s).
Have you used NixOS? You can leave your own review of the project on our ratings page.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
Manjaro running on a PinePhone, Fedora coming to Lenovo laptops, Mint publishes Warpinator as a Flatpak
The PinePhone has been capturing a lot of attention as an affordable device which can run such open source operating systems as UBports. The device's open nature also makes it an attractive platform for other Linux distributions, including Manjaro Linux. An announcement by PINE64, the organization behind the PinePhone, reports: "I am thrilled to announce that the next Community Edition (CE) of the PinePhone will feature Manjaro. For those of you who do not know, Manjaro is an Arch-based Linux operating system designed with user-friendliness in mind. But Manjaro is more than just an operating system, it is also a large and vibrant community of contributors and end-users, which I highly encourage you to join. Manjaro has offered support for PINE64 devices since the very beginning - with high-quality OS builds now available for nearly all our SBCs and devices - and the PinePhone is no exception in this regard." According to the PINE64 post it will be possible to pre-order PinePhones running Manjaro in September.
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Back in April we reported that Lenovo had plans to ship new laptops with the Fedora distribution. Christian Schaller has reported that Lenovo laptops with Fedora pre-installed are now available. "This weekend the X1 Carbon with Fedora Workstation went live in North America on Lenovo's webstore. This is a big milestone for us and for Lenovo as its the first time Fedora ships pre-installed on a laptop from a major vendor and its the first time the worlds largest laptop maker ships premium laptops with Linux directly to consumers. Currently only the X1 Carbon is available, but more models is on the way and more geographies will get added too soon. As a sidenote, the X1 Carbon and more has actually been available from Lenovo for a couple of months now, it is just the web sales that went online now. So if you are a IT department buying Lenovo laptops in bulk, be aware that you can already buy the X1 Carbon and the P1 for instance through the direct to business sales channel."
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The Linux Mint team has published their monthly newsletter which outlines progress the distribution's developers have made in addressing bugs and backporting fixes. The team has been working on the Warpinator peer-to-peer file sharing tool which is now available as a Flatpak to make it accessible to people running other Linux distributions. "We're happy to announce that Warpinator, the network transfer tool which shipped with Linux Mint 20 and was ported to LMDE 4, is now available to all users of Linux as a Flatpak. If you are using Linux Mint 19.x or Linux Mint 18.x open the Software Manager and search for 'Warpinator'. If you are using a different Linux distribution head over to Flathub."
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Distribution members, donations, and governance structure
Auditing-the-organization asks: When picking a Linux distro, a person can look at package management (eg, Deb, RPM, pacman, etc), package philosophy (eg, fixed, long-term release, rolling, etc), how long it has been active, security, community support, documentation, and general philosophy, but the one thing that doesn't standout is their organizational structure, by-laws, and how they are funded.
Debian comes to mind as an exception. It states it is a non-profit (Software in the Public Interest, a non-profit organization that holds assets in trust for Debian), lists its charter, officers, and meeting minutes.
How do distributions generally organize for income purposes and tax purposes? How does a community-based Linux distribution organize? A distribution is usually the work of many people, it would seem odd that the money would go into a personal account. It would also be helpful to know how they are funded (corporate backed, donations). I was wondering, with all your knowledge on the different distributions, if you could shed some light on this issue.
I know this stuff isn't as fun as the technical, but it is kind of important. Perhaps there could be an additional criteria at the top of the distro's description with: number of team members, organizational structure, funding, backers.
DistroWatch answers: One of the nice things about collecting technical information about a distribution, apart from it being fun, is that technical information on a project tends to be static. A distribution that uses pacman as it package manager and has a rolling release approach is unlikely to change those aspects of the project from one year to the next. We can pretty much look up which package manager a project uses and its release philosophy and that information is unlikely to need updating on a regular basis.
Another nice thing about gathering and listing technical information is it tends to be easy to verify. Anyone can download a new release and confirm which version of the Linux kernel it runs, or what its package manager is, or which init software the distribution is using. The information is easily accessible, objective, and verifiable.
Most Linux distributions, with a handful of key exceptions, are less clear about organizational structure, funding, and the number of members they have. Often times which category a project would fit into as far as funding goes is a matter of philosophy or point of view rather than a clearly defined answer. Information on a distribution's members and organization structure is also rarely published and, if it is available, tends to be updated quickly as people join and leave the project.
Linux distributions typically are not run like companies with a specific number of employees who each have defined roles. The number of people involved in a project and how they handle things - like code commits, funding, payments, filing taxes, and decision making - are often in flux and do not follow a formally defined set of rules.
A lot of community projects are essentially one person (or a small number of people) who publish code, accept "fly-by" contributions from community members, and may accept donations privately. They typically don't have any published guidelines or by-laws on how decisions are made, who is involved, or where any funding goes. There are exceptions to this rule; bigger organizations such as Red Hat, Debian, and SUSE are better about publishing information on the number of employees they have and their financial status. Though even then, this information can change rapidly with cutbacks, new hires or a flood of volunteers.
Perhaps the one criteria suggested that is usually easy to discover and which remains fixed is a distribution's funding model. We can usually find out how a project gets its money because this will be relatively clear on the website. Projects usually either ask for funds, offer support contracts, or charge money for their products. As a result we have sometimes been asked if we could divide distributions into Commercial and Community/Free categories. However, there is a complication to this approach: many projects could be both, or take another (less expected) approach.
Take Ubuntu for example. It is commercially backed by Canonical, which sells support, suggesting it is a commercial product. However, Ubuntu can be downloaded for free without restrictions, making it more of a community/free project. Fedora falls into much the same curious middle ground. Red Hat Enterprise Linux would seem to be pleasantly clear in that it is a commercial product, however there is an edition of RHEL which is available free of charge. Other distributions may not accept donations or sell products, but have private affiliate deals to bundle software or use search links to drive income. These deals are often not talked about publicly on the distribution's website and very few distributions publish financial information (such as income, expenses, backers, and funds in reserve).
This is why we tend to focus on the technical aspects of a distribution, the verifiable, objective aspects as much as possible. The philosophy, governance, and funding tend to be difficult to verify, are often changing, and are open to interpretation. Those aspects are certainly important to a lot of community members, but distributions very rarely publish this information.
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Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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| Released Last Week |
Q4OS 3.12
A new version of Q4OS, a Debian-based desktop Linux distribution offering a choice of a classic-style user interface (Trinity or TDE, a fork of KDE 4) or the modern KDE Plasma desktop, has been released: "An update to Q4OS 3 'Centaurus' LTS has been released. The new 3.12 series receives the recent Debian 'Buster' 10.5 update, critical security and bug fixes, and several specific Q4OS enhancements. We've been working on visual Plasma themes - the Debonaire theme is now available directly in Plasma-based live media, and other new themes are available for installation from the repositories. Automatic detection of NVIDIA hardware and dedicated installer has been fixed. In addition to the above, Q4OS 3.12 brings other enhancements, such as the Firefox 80 installer, supplemented desktop profiles and a cumulative upgrade covering all changes from the previous stable Q4OS 3 'Centaurus' release. Current users only need to perform a regular update to get all the new features. Anyone can download installation media images from the Downloads section of the Q4OS website." See the release announcement and the changelog for further details.
EasyOS 2.4.1
EasyOS is an experimental Linux distribution which uses many of the technologies and package formats pioneered by Puppy Linux. EasyOS continues to improve its container technology, security features, and update its Debian-based packages. The project's release announcement offers the highlights of EasyOS 2.4.1: "EasyOS 2.4.1 has significant and exciting new features since version 2.3. This includes enhancements to 'lockdown in RAM' as an alternative security strategy to containers, tools and strategies for debugging bootup in the initrd, automatic version update via an 'update' icon on the desktop, and choice of settings to retain when erase the session. There are many package changes, including built from Debian 10.5 DEBs and kernel bump to 5.4.59. Updated applications include SeaMonkey, Pupradio, fftag, ffplay-GTK, Pmcputemp and EasyDD. New apps include MATE Calc and iotop. Many infrastructure improvements and fixes -- too many to list, see the release notes." The release notes offer greater detail.
Garuda Linux 200831
Version 200831 of Garuda Linux, an Arch-based desktop Linux distribution with a graphical installer and system management tools, and available in several popular desktop flavours, has been released: "Garuda Linux release 200831 - this is an ISO image refresh released today. Changelog: Garuda Welcome app - added a toggle for easy switching to HiDPI mode, added a toggle to switch GDM to Wayland, added a toggle to enable systemwide ad-blocking via AdGuard DNS, added a toggle for enabling and disabling the guest account; Garuda Network Assistant app - added WiFi restart button, added Bluetooth restart button, detect if NetworkManager or Connman are running if they are installed and not running; Garuda-zsh-config - switched to Powerlevel10k theme (including the patched font).... It also includes some software updates, including some major version upgrades for Linux-zen 5.8.5, Mesa 20.1.6, NVIDIA 450.66, Firefox 80, LibreOffice 7.0.0." Read the rest of the release announcement for more details.
Garuda Linux 200831 -- Garuda's welcome window
(full image size: 2.2MB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
Linux From Scratch 10.0
Linux From Scratch (LFS) is a project that provides you with the steps necessary to build your own custom Linux system. The project has announced a new version of its instructional handbook, Linux From Scratch 10.0, along with additional steps to create a more feature-rich distribution called Beyond Linux From Scratch (BLFS). The release announcement reads: "The Linux From Scratch community announces the release of LFS Version 10.0. This version of the book has undergone a major reorganization. It uses enhanced cross-compilation techniques and an environment isolated from the host system to build tools for the final system. This reduces both the chance for changing the the host system and the potential of the host system influencing the LFS build process. Major package updates include toolchain versions glibc-2.32, gccc-10.2.0, and binutils-2.35. In total, 37 packages were updated since the last release. The Linux kernel has also been updated to version 5.8.3." The main LFS volume uses SysV init while there is an alternative version which uses systemd.
Ubuntu DesktopPack 20.04
Mark Bezrukov has announced the release of Ubuntu DesktopPack, a comprehensive set of Ubuntu remixes created by Ukraine's UALinux. The project's latest version comes in 13 different flavours, including two new ones - one with the Deepin desktop and the other using GNOME with a Windows 10-like theme. From the release announcement: "The Ubuntu*Pack 20.04 distribution kit is available, presented in the form of 13 independent systems with various interfaces: original Ubuntu, plus Budgie, Cinnamon, GNOME, GNOME Classic, GNOME Flashback, KDE, LXqt, MATE, Unity, Xfce, DDE (Deepin desktop) and a Windows 10-style interface. The distributions are based on the Ubuntu 20.04 LTS operating system. The main differences between our distributions and the original Ubuntu is the already implemented official updates, various graphical interfaces, multimedia and additional drivers and programs that are absent in Ubuntu."
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 2,128
- Total data uploaded: 33.6TB
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) |
Using the Nix package manager
In this week's review of NixOS we talked about the Nix package manager. Nix offers a lot of advanced system configuration features, allowing for package snapshots, atomic updates, and managing system configuration. Nix is capable of either managing the operating system, as it does with NixOS, or acting as a second package manager for another distribution. We would like to hear if you use Nix, either as the primary or secondary package manager.
You can see the results of our previous poll on running Fedora on a Btrfs volume in last week's edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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Do you use the Nix package manager?
| I use Nix on NixOS: | 39 (3%) |
| I use Nix on another distro: | 38 (3%) |
| I do not use Nix: | 1191 (94%) |
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| Website News |
DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 14 September 2020. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Article Search page. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
- Bruce Patterson (podcast)
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Nix package manager (by tuxUser on 2020-09-07 01:47:39 GMT from Canada)
Sometimes I wonder why developers put so much energy into developing a tool that at the end, practically nobody use it or implemented it on major distribution.
There is too much skill and energy lost in the free software world. The Nix package manager is one of them in my opinion...
Probably your survey will prove my point...
Anyway, good luck to the Nix team in their project...
2 • @1 - Nix popularity (by Andy Prough on 2020-09-07 02:59:16 GMT from United States)
I think Nix isn't really targeting desktop use near as much as they are probably targeting server room use, since their atomic updates and versioning rollbacks and roll-forwards and their automated procedures are going to be most useful in those environments. I notice that there are several companies supporting the use of Nix, so I would assume that their customers are server/cloud providers. The fact that it will work on the desktop is a bonus for the rest of us.
3 • nixos (by dave on 2020-09-07 07:00:31 GMT from Australia)
I'm not sure about using nix package manager on other distributions, I guess it might help if packages aren't available in your preferred distro.
But I love the idea of NixOS, your OS is disposable and is basically a config file. Using this to deploy machines en masse, I wonder if it can be used as a kind of "Group Policy" of sorts for linux machines? It is a little bit of a learning curve but I think it's a great idea!
4 • nixos (by benson on 2020-09-07 07:14:09 GMT from Slovakia)
colleague of mine 's been using the NixOS distro on his production/work laptop, quite an exception, but he had just good things to say about it, enjoying it very much.
5 • Nix (by Jim on 2020-09-07 07:33:03 GMT from United States)
With the Void/xbps schism and xtraeme's threats of relicensing xbps recently I've been considering moving to Nix or Guix for more long-term stability. Interesting review.
6 • nixos rollback (by Gerald on 2020-09-07 08:26:53 GMT from Austria)
The advantage from the nixos rollback methode over a filesystem snapshot rollback is that you can rollback nixos even if the bootloader is broken after an update. You can boot from an nixos installer usb stick and rollback:
https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/61718
Systems with filesystem snapshots like btrfs, zfs cannot be rolled back if the bootloader is broken.
7 • Distribution governance (by Guido on 2020-09-07 09:22:36 GMT from Philippines)
A good example is Manjaro.
It is since last year technically a company "GmbH" according to German law.
Company Type: limited partnership with a limited liability company as general partner
Managing board: Philip Müller & Bernhard Landauer
But they also ask for donations. The community has a lot of influence.
More under:
https://www.manjaro.org/imprint/
8 • NIX @5 (by nanome on 2020-09-07 09:35:25 GMT from United Kingdom)
@5: The thing about moving to a different package manager is that you need a repository of packages built with it. In the cases of Nix and Guix, the only choices are NixOS and GuixSD. If there were a repository + package manager paring that was both viable and portable, switching what remains of a distro would be possible if hard work.
I am not sure that xtraeme's threats to relicence Void/xbps would adversly affect its current GPL licence. I can understand xstraeme's anger [it's complicated], but maybe Jesse can help us out with the legal issues?
9 • Package managers (by James on 2020-09-07 10:01:32 GMT from United States)
I think many of us, like myself, get somewhat locked into the first package manager we use when coming to Linux. For me that is apt and Synaptic. I always look for Debian based Distros that use them, with the on exception I have used PC Linux, because though it uses .rpm and not .deb files it uses Synaptic.
10 • Lenovo/Fedora (by pfbruce on 2020-09-07 11:44:34 GMT from United States)
I hope dnfdragora works on Lenovo, It does not on either my Dell or my HP.
Fedora seems to fix broken stuff with the next release. So,I anticipate dragora will be functional again this fall.
Fedora also has a new booting scheme. I lost it on the HP (I boot with OpenSUSE now) and have not found a way to restore it.
Maybe Lenovo will encourage Fedora to fix things in a timely manner.
And please do not scold me for not reporting bugs to Fedora. I have tried in the past and found the process remarkably difficult (i.e. I am not a programmer).
11 • 10 Continued (by pfbruce on 2020-09-07 12:14:35 GMT from United States)
I just installed an update for OpenSUSE. It fixed grub, so now I cannot boot at all. I used super grub to get into MX. I will see what I can rescue from there. It may be time to re-install some stuff. Or go back to Slackware.
12 • @1 tuxUser: (by dragonmouth on 2020-09-07 12:34:05 GMT from United States)
It is because of Linux's "freedom"philosophy. Anybody and everybody is allowed to re-invent the wheel. In fact, they are encouraged to do so. If one or two apps to perform the same task are good, ten are much better. That is why the DW database contains 634 dormant or discontinued distributions, many of the one-hit wonders. That is the Waiting List contains 165 distributions, quite a number of them being there for more than 5 years without any activity. How many of the 277 active distributions are truly unique and how many are just duplicates with just cosmetic differences?
13 • @6 and system config (by Daniel on 2020-09-07 13:47:29 GMT from Brazil)
@6 fully agree. When I was reading that was the first thing that came to my mind and in my opinion is a better approach than filesystem-level snapshot. I’m positively curious about the same tool handling system configuration. Nix seems quite promising, I’m planning to try it soon
14 • Lock down critical items (by Somewhat Reticent on 2020-09-07 13:57:39 GMT from United States)
@10, @11 If you don't lock the bootloader down, any update can break it.
I avoid letting an OS change it - prevents a lot of grief.
Grub2win is one friend, for those who also boot W'##. rEFInd is another.
It may also help to lock down your kernel.
…
@12 Unique? All of them. "just cosmetic"? None. Each contributed to the community. Freedom is vital.
…
@6 Robust is better, yes, thank you.
…
@8 "The thing about moving to a different package manager is that you need a repository of packages built with it."
Really? Then there would be no motivation to add it to another OS. Think.
15 • A bit of everything... (by Friar Tux on 2020-09-07 14:06:24 GMT from Canada)
Regarding the question of the info availability of how a distro's company/community is run... really, is it any of my business? I buy a car to get me from point A to point B. I really don't care how the automakers run their companies - other than if they treat their workers humanely. I use Linux Mint as my main distro. How Clement Lefebvre, or his team, run their organization, is really none of my business. IF they choose to allow me to see how they run things and where they allocate the donated funds - bonus. If they choose not to - fine. It is their organization, their choice. I use Mint because it's stable and works and gets me from point A to point B. I have tried SUSE/openSUSE, many times, and it doesn't get me anywhere. So I don't use it. And still, it isn't any of my business how SUSE runs their show.
@9 (James) Also, some of us test out package managers and pick the one/ones we like best. I find the Apt/Synaptic combo works nicely for me (with gdebi thrown in for good measure). Though for the amount one uses a package manager once all the needed apps are installed, I won't let that stop me from picking a distro with another type of package manager. Again, for me it comes down to will it get me from point A to point B.
16 • NIX? (by nanome on 2020-09-07 14:54:28 GMT from United Kingdom)
@14. Thanks, I have thought about how to rid myself of the dependence on all of the cruddy distros that are out there. However, I do not have the resources or skills to do anything about it. The closest I got was exploring pkgsrc [as a broad repo + tools] joined with a simple, modern init system. Instead, I grit my teeth and use stock Void Linux and get on with life.
17 • Nix and diversity (by tuxUser on 2020-09-07 15:02:47 GMT from Canada)
@2 thank you for the precisions. From this point of view, indeed it becomes relevant and smart.
I've been using linux since the 90's, first under Slackware. I know that diversity is encouraged in the free software world but it must be stay pertinent, right? We've had all these Ubuntu derivatives which in the end are either gone or totally useless. How does changing a wallpaper, icons and adding some software add value to free software? In my book absolutely nothing!
For 2,3 years we have been witnessing this bad Theater story also on ArchLinux with a lot of derivatives that brings nothing.
I think here that Distrowatch should not encourage this many fake project with a big donate button on their respective websites. I know that this discussion has often taken place here so far from me wanting to relaunch it...
Finally, I can't wait to see Slackware 15 for maybe Christmas, a nice gift for 2021!
18 • Nix and diversity (by igor on 2020-09-07 16:53:37 GMT from Croatia)
@1, @17 tuxUser: I have installed NixOS on several laptops and desktop PCs, it's just very convenient to have your system configuration, services, service configurations, applications and application configurations in one place, giving you the same experience when you switch to a new machine or use multiple machines. How have you kept your Slackware installation consistent over 30+ years, without manually configuring it each time on a new machine?
19 • @11 Same by me (by Gerald on 2020-09-07 21:15:13 GMT from Austria)
@11 Same situation by me: OpenSuse with snapper snapshots ... so called bulletproof. An update damaged grub and there is no way any more to rollback. If you cannot access the snapshots through a rescue system without grub this method is useless.
I think the nixos method os better, i want to try.
The only way with filesystem snapshot which are accessible through a live system is to install your system in a manual way:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160312061355/http://blog.kourim.net//installing-debian-on-btrfs-subvolume
I tried it in a virtual environment and it is working.
20 • all these derivatives... (by yrotadnam on 2020-09-07 21:25:03 GMT from New Zealand)
I agree with the general opinion here that there are way too many "fluff" projects out there. But people are free to try, which is the Linux Way. The sad bit being all this genius effort that is lost to actually advancing - Linux could progress faster if these efforts were focussed on what matters. I guess many of these niche distros or homebrews are scratching a very particular itch.
Then you have government level efforts, like the UALinux that just released their Ubuntu 20 bundle. Very interesting. I went to see what the Gnome Win-like was: just Gnome (which I dislike) plus all the Wine-ready bits -ok. All for bleeding edge LibreOffice 7 and Ubuntu 20 foundation, but then Python 2 as default (an "rc1" edition to boot) and not even flatpak access to Warpinator (Mint's new shiny toy - most useful!). But I can see this working in many environments - stable, batteries mostly included.
It seems even some of the big names falter - Fedora as I read above :( and I agree reporting faults is far to convoluted. I don't want to be forced to sign up for GitX or YBug and have yet another account out there that is rarely used.
21 • NixOs and derivates (by StockholmMan on 2020-09-07 22:53:48 GMT from Sweden)
@1-17-20
I agree with tuxuser and yrotadnam
I don't know NixOS and I don't think I'll try it. Manjaro gives me everything I need. Very stable since last 3 years...
22 • @too many distros, too little time (by WhatMeWorry on 2020-09-08 01:48:39 GMT from United States)
Most people who whinge about distro proliferation appear to me as:
King-wannabes- If I were the king of this forest, there would nothing but fruit bearing trees, and only of the kind I like.
Authoritarians-by proxy- Someone should do something! Distrowatch, maybe, or a distro police. We've got to get organized! Someone has to decide how many is too many. Not me, of course, but someone.
Zero-sum-gamers- There are only so many slices to this pie, and every time someone takes even a little bit, that leaves less for the rest of us. Those $2 in monthly donations some little useless distro takes in should go to something I approve of, or at least starving children. And that useless dev should spend his/her time doing something useful, as defined by me.
Me? I'm a wastrel. I only need one distro, but I use four, plus some others I keep around for kicks. I know, I could let someone else have some, but I'm just plain greedy.
There is a system, controlled by no one, in which pretty much everything gets thrown at the wall. A little bit sticks. Most doesn't. It's called evolution. I like it.
23 • i've been loving nixos over past 3 months (by Laubster on 2020-09-08 02:02:14 GMT from United States)
I fine-tuned a nixos setup over a few weeks on my personal laptop, and later installed the os into the family laptop; that process was incredibly easy: copy the /etc/nixos/configuration.nix , and one command & a reboot later, things are perfectly synced. Very pleased. My biggest annoyance is that I have to keep the system updated frequently (every week or so) to avoid updating too much at once, which would exceed my tight disk capacity.
24 • But Laubster, I did that, too. (by Friar Tux on 2020-09-08 03:20:17 GMT from Canada)
@23 (Laubster) I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I did the same thing with Linux Mint. Yeah, I copied a different set of file but, in the end, I got the same result. In fact, that's why I have 'backup and restore'. It's pretty close to being automated. I fined-tuned my OS to my liking, backed everything up. When I screwed up my OS beyond recovery, I simply reinstalled it, and restored all my stuff (including the apps and programs I had). It took about half an hour and all was back to normal.
As for the deluge of distros out there, That is the beauty of Linux. Do I thing of some as inferior to others? Nope. This is Linux. Everyone can share their work with others - even NixOS. Do I think we need to reduce the amount of distros out there? Nope, again. Time and energy (or lack there of) will do that - as @22 called it - it's evolution. Just keep cranking 'em out, folks, but have fun doing it!!
25 • fake distro (by Mavik on 2020-09-08 04:02:36 GMT from France)
@22
Your argumentation is not appropriate. Sorry!
Changing a wallpaper theme and icons is not a distribution in itself. It's nothing at all!
And I'm one of those who think there's too much of that... If people in their free time do it, there's no problem with that. . Everyone is free... But I don't think the XYZbuntu or ABCArch should be here.
26 • Re: NixOS review (by Jan Tojnar on 2020-09-08 05:32:30 GMT from Czechia)
@Jesse Smith Thanks for the review.
I find it more useful to think of NixOS as a set of tools for building your own distribution, rather than a standard distribution. So if you add `pkgs.firefox` to the `environment.systemPackages` in the `configuration.nix` file generated by `nixos-generate-config`, your installed distro will contain Firefox. But maybe the comments in the generated config should more closely match the ISO.
Regarding choosing the user password, you can also set it declaratively (example of my config https://github.com/jtojnar/nixfiles/blob/8cfefe2a1b583bb5cacb8eb2ff64f0a9c3acaf04/hosts/theo/configuration.nix#L461-L479) but I think the documentation is at fault here. Opened an issue about it https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/97422.
We recently switched from VBoxVGA to VMSVGA precisely to make resizing work with VirtualBox 6.1+ (relevant pull request https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/86473), are you running an older VirtualBox version by chance?
27 • To Many Distrubutions? (by James on 2020-09-08 09:39:42 GMT from United States)
Does anyone want one monolithic Linux distribution? How about two competing Linux distributions? What is the correct number of Linux Distributions? 5? 10? 100? If you believe Linux is choice, why criticize the number of choices?
28 • Too Many Distros (by kc1di on 2020-09-08 10:16:18 GMT from United States)
I for one don't think there are too many. It is true that some duplicate work is being done, but that will only improve the pool of packages available over time the ones that don't work are weeded out or fixed. The Beauty of Linux is that your free to take what someone has done and build upon it. So you have what you need/want. If you take away that freedom you loose innovation. And the Community will be the looser. If you don't like what someone has done with a Distro you are free to ignore it. But every Distro is someones joy or they would not have taken the time to do it in the first place. So keep them coming. Or help improve what is missing in the Distro of your choice and enjoy the process instead of complaining about it. As for the newbie that feels overwhelmed by the choices because the OS they are coming from does not offer choice that one of the prices of admittance and eventual happiness.
29 • Too Many Distros (by grraf on 2020-09-08 11:28:34 GMT from Romania)
Only one downside to it: chaos&confusion among newcomers leading most of them to quit/draw some false conclusions about the entire linux ecosystem as a whole based upon the distro they landed on...
I give myself as an example here: first contact was after a PTSD inducing experience with M$'s Vista i landed onto the popular(back then anyways) Ubuntu and boy was i a disappointed badger bugs&instability galore fresh installs for every new version(6month cycle if i properly recall) was the recommended upgrade method... almost gave up till i decided to give debian a try as i heard plenty of users say its the superior choice and i'm glad i did as it allowed me step away from all the shiny GUI's and actually learn smth for a change...
Took me about 3whole years of distro hoping till i was actually 'home' Arch linux : fast&always up to date having pacman as a sane&clean syntax package manager and free from the curse endless PPA imports to keep what i need up to date...
So what did the presence of so many distros to chose from did for me personally:
1)almost made me gave up early on(the most popular choices aren't always the best ones to cover yr particular needs&preferences and the more GUI rich and friendly a distro is the less u tend learn and the more trapped u are by yr lack of knowledge to alter anything to suit you)
2)Wasted some 3 years of my time with hopping&hoping that the next popular distro i try is closer to what i need instead of focusing my eforts on learning how to build exactly what i want...hence Arch with its vast documentation covering all/most of yr choices for each step and guiding you to build exactly what you need.
Long story short the plethora of distro choices amounts to nothing for an experienced user(he knows in reality hes only locking at about 4distros and their endless derivatives) as hes well aware of hes own needs and can reliably discern the value of a distro based on hes specific needs.... but the poor newbs good luck&god bless their in for a bumpy ride.
30 • @22 (by eM on 2020-09-08 12:06:43 GMT from Poland)
It's an invitation to flame war. I don't agree at all with your statements.
I would prefer one single linux distro even if it was paired with things I strongly dislike: based on non-rolling Ubuntu/Fedora with Gnome desktop and bloated with multiple apps I never use like LibreOffice & GIMP.
One distro would mean that every problem solved by one guy on the other side of the planet would probably solve it for me. Great trade off. Right now I can't use solutions from other distros. Linux community cries about lack of support from hardware manufacturers - poor quality drivers or no drivers at all. There are not enough quality games and quality software. I mean prioprietary software like Adobe Photoshop etc. Almost no PCs or laptops are sold with linux preinstalled. This is a huge issue because nowadays people are not used to install operating system.
One single distro is something that could really make linux become top operating system but we all know it's never gonna happen. Multiple distros most of the time just mean they do same things over and over again. How many packet managers are needed? How many desktop environments? How many distros with random choice of their own favorite packet manager, desktop environment with or without systemd and a different wallpaper? From my point of view it's a waste of time. End result? I'm a part time linux user as long as it doesn't change.
31 • @28: (by dragonmouth on 2020-09-08 12:16:34 GMT from United States)
" If you take away that freedom you loose innovation."
That is a red herring. People can make the same innovations while working on an existing distro as they can working on the 198th re-write of Ubuntu. In fact, when contributing to an existing project they can concentrate on their bit of innovation 100% of the time instead of wasting their energy on trying to build a distro around that innovation. Apple and Microsoft innovate even though everybody is working on the same overall project. Besides, making cosmetic changes and rearranging the apps mix to create a new distro is no more creative/innovative than mixing the various ingredients in a buffet is creating a new gourmet dish.
32 • Nix questions (by Ankleface Wroughlandmire on 2020-09-08 12:55:55 GMT from Ecuador)
Hi there, thanks to Jesse for the interesting writeup on Nix, I think I'll be giving it a try soon. And a few questions:
Does Nix handle application config files in ~/.config and elsewhere? This would be especially important for going back and forth between different application versions with apps that require the config file version to match the application version. Firefox for example recently has become extremely picky and doesn't allow using a profile from a newer version on an older version.
Also, when run on a different distro, how does Nix handle things like services, systemd integration, and desktop environments that require root level integration with the login manager and the X session?
Thanks a lot!
33 • Nix (by CS on 2020-09-08 15:19:56 GMT from United States)
From my read of https://nixos.org/ (the Examples section, specifically), using Nix as a desktop replacement doesn't seem to be the main point. Build a LAMP stack AMI with a couple of files/commands seems more up their alley.
I personally would be interested in more investigation of these sorts of things. It would also help with a lot of these "why do we need 500 almost-identical Linux desktop things?"
34 • @33 (by azuvix on 2020-09-08 16:10:30 GMT from United States)
Well, yes, I would say that server use is a focus for NixOS. It's a bit less work to use it that way, at least.
But with the advent of home-manager for managing user-specific stuff and the fact that a large number of window managers and desktop environments are packaged and work, it's no slouch on the desktop, either.
In fact, I recently took my laptop config and re-created it on a desktop PC in record time doing it the NixOS way. That's definitely a strength, knowing that my environment can be captured and work anywhere I am, provided the hardware is compatible.
I think Nix, even if it's not the final word, is the way forward in IT. Declarative configuration, reproducible builds, and a functional approach that scales up to entire systems are all so good as to be hard to ignore.
35 • Nix (by Robert on 2020-09-08 17:44:50 GMT from United States)
I always thought package managers were the sort of commodity thing that you'd expect to be unified across distros, like they've (mostly) settled on grub, pulseaudio, and systemd.
I've not used it, but Nix sounds like it would be a good candidate if it got the adoption. As a side channel to existing package managers though, it just seems redundant.
36 • Nix (cont) (by Robert on 2020-09-08 17:52:56 GMT from United States)
Forgot to mention- regarding the talk of Nix as a server oriented configuration tool, would this idea put it in the same space as orchestration tools like Ansible or Puppet? If so, does it have any particular advantages that would let it carve a niche for itself?
Seriously asking. I know next to nothing about that area, but on the surface there seems like a lot of overlap.
37 • NixOS (by cflow on 2020-09-08 19:39:48 GMT from United States)
NixOS is fascinating to me, but I've never tried it out, as I'm so comfortable with the convenience of a modern Linux distro. I'd rather use an OS for all the apps and security it provides and allows, rather than go though heavy maintenance over it all. And given NixOS is still hesitant on having a clear graphical installer and a polished default experience for desktops, it's still in 'tinker mode' for the fans who like that sort of thing.
If I were to have that sort of time, I'd try to do Linux From Scratch, and see if I could add the Nix Package Manager on top of it. It would be a fun project for education, and it would be interesting to make something very user friendly and low maintenance with that technology - Even if I were the only one who'd be using it.
38 • Nix on other Distros (by Sitwon on 2020-09-08 19:47:39 GMT from United States)
I have been using Nix on other distros for years. I have thought about moving completely to NixOS, but haven't made the effort yet.
Just Nix by itself on other distros can offer a number of advantages.
1) You can install the same version of the same software across systems running different base distributions.
2) You can pick which version of the software you want to install (to an extent).
3) You can install packages without superuser permissions.
4) Nix sometimes has newer versions than what's available in the base distro's repos (particularly for conservative or LTS distros).
5) Nix is more efficient with disk space than Snaps or Flatpacks (it uses CAS to deduplicate dependencies).
That said, it's not perfect for every situation. For instance, I wouldn't recommend trying to install docker from Nix onto anything other than NixOS.
Also, I don't think filesystem snapshots invalidate Nix's benefits at all. Nix allows you to rollback a generation or an individual package. That's a lot more granularity than rolling back the entire system volume.
Speaking of which, I especially appreciate being able to pin a package to an older version (eg, for compatibility with another tool), but still get updates/patches for the package that don't bump it's version number.
I know that some other package managers have some overlapping features, but those package managers generally only really work on distros that were built around them.
39 • Beautiful Chaos (by M.Z. on 2020-09-08 23:23:33 GMT from United States)
I'd like to welcome the noobs & control lovers to the reality that is 'free as in speech' software. People say it all the time - 'too many Distros', which is of course tantamount to saying you have too much right to create any GPL software you want. Well guess what? It was intended to be that way & will continue to be that way whether you like it or not. Doing what you want with it as long as it stays GPL is exactly what free & open software is all about.
Now of course there are those that say 'but you could all pull together', but guess what? Everyone has different priorities & visions. It's not a job for everyone, it's a passion for many & a number are passionate because they can do as they please & try to execute their vision. You can cry 'it's always just wall paper' as much as you want, but many of the current major projects started as little more than that & evolved due to the passion & persistence of their creators. New small time distros will either satisfy the itch of those that created them & disappear, or they will grow & evolve into something bigger. And of course, there is absolutely no guarantee that you could get any of the small distro creators passionate enough to contribute to the vision of someone else & if they were made to contribute they may well move on faster than their fly by night distros disappear.
It may be better for the Linux ecosystem as a whole if more tied volunteer work with current projects, but many of those you complain about started out at other projects and/or will volunteer after trying their own thing. Regardless of whether that happens, making a distro is something that someone tried on their time & took nothing from you, so you really have nothing to complain about. That is unless of course you are so authoritarian that you would prevent anyone from having unauthorized hobbies like 'never learn Klingon, restore a classic car, or waste time making abstract art'. I may watch a decent amount of Star Trek, but the car restoration thing is the only one of those three that I would be interested in, and despite my dislike for abstract art I find the idea of forcing people to never waste time on it kinda creepy. Likewise telling people to never make their own Linux distro is dumb & creepy.
If you want everyone to march to the singular drumbeat of the vision of someone else your welcome to use close source stuff like MS or Mac. Personally I like freedom & the beautiful chaos that is Linux suits me just fine.
40 • @25, 30, 31 OmniLinux (by WhatMeWorry on 2020-09-09 01:05:06 GMT from United States)
I see that some keep wishing for a top-down hierarchy to rule Linux, but would still expect to have a say in how it's run. Hah! Go tell MS or Apple how they should do their "distros" and see what they say. Desktop Linux is for the most part people working on what they please, and sometimes sharing their work in case others find it useful. You like it enough? Donate if you want. No overarching hierarchies.
@31, Sure, lots of creative people in corporate OSes, and well-paid for their skills too. And when their creative concepts go against corporate, those concepts go in the circular file. (Things like NixOS for example.) Are you willing or able to pay skilled creative people to create your Linux? No? Then you really have nothing to say.
Yes, you do lose creativity in the corporate world. It's why corporate Linux keeps community editions. It's why MS and others support Linux, and in the case of Windows, incorporate it in their OS. It's not because they are altruistic, it's because they get creativity on the cheap.
@30. One single distro huh? You like monopolies, I see. Remember Windows 8? When that egg was laid, users either put up with it or went back to the old, sometimes paying extra for the privilege. No thanks. So Desktop Linux will not become the top (I include "Desktop" because in other forms, Linux is already tops.) The purpose of Linux is not to be tops. There is no universal purpose. Just people doing their own thing. Which doesn't prohibit you or anyone else to create and fund a distro with what best practices you deem, and bring it to the top. As I said: It's not a zero-sum game.
@25, But I don't think the XYZbuntu or ABCArch should be here." If by here you mean the Distrowatch pages, it's up to those who own and publish it. There are lots of distros I have no use for, but I'm not irked or diminished by their existence, and neither is Linux..
41 • Nix (by Somewhat Reticent on 2020-09-09 02:12:35 GMT from United States)
Does Nix enable using different versions of a package at the same time?
…
Can it be applied to packages from other distros' repositories? (á la urpmi, zypper)?
…
How does using Nix compare to using Guix?
…
… or Bedrock Linux?
42 • NixOS config examples (by Niko Z. on 2020-09-09 10:35:57 GMT from Indonesia)
@22
Thank you for sharing the complete configuration file.
Are there any complete examples for KDE or Fluxbox?
43 • NIX/LFS (by 2damncommon on 2020-09-09 17:09:27 GMT from United States)
I thought NIX would be useful on LFS. Couldn't find enough documentation at the time.
44 • NixOs (by Max on 2020-09-09 17:30:11 GMT from Canada)
I tested NixOs for a while in a virtualbox last years. After a few months, I didn't see any advantage over another completely stable like Debian... Nix and geared towards people who like to configure their system manually. I can do it but I have more time for it ...
At the end, the operating system is not just a package manager.
Those who say it has too much distribution, I think also say that it can have 10,000 linux distribution with a wallaper and an icons pack with 3 more multimedia applications on top Ubuntu and/or Arch and call it BizBuntu or BozzArch. It must remain a personal personalization. There is no gain to put or add this in the distrowatch repository which is a more serious site than that! Well, I hope...
45 • Distro or Mod (by Dr. Dave on 2020-09-10 03:17:37 GMT from United States)
Sometimes you will even see the word 'Remix' flung about.. however I think the word 'Mod' (modification) describes many of these so-called distros that contain only or mostly cosmetic changes. A distribution should have its own repository, presumably to offer significant (non-cosmetic) packages not available upstream and/or should offer at least 1 desktop (or window manager, etc) not available or preconfigured upstream. If the differences from upstream are purely cosmetic-- even if they're significantly polishing a desktop that is available upstream, it should simply be considered a mod/remix.
These are just semantics, but I have said this before.. there are too many people who seek to make a distro, not because they have something significant to offer to a prospective userbase, but because they yearn to have control of something in their lives. I'm not saying people shouldn't make and share their own distros, but many people have done a disservice by glomming on to the 'Linux for Humans' sloganeering, only to disappear like a thief in the night. Luckily most of them disappoint nobody, because the never had any more than a handful of users.
I wish many of these distro-commander hopefuls would put their energy toward collaboration, instead of declaring themselves the leader of nothing, without really doing anything. Stop trying to be Rambo and learn to work with likeminded people toward something more meaningful. A distribution needs to be more than a goofy name, a logo and a blog.
46 • Linux diversity (by dragonmouth on 2020-09-10 13:33:39 GMT from United States)
Linux community is like the United Nations. Everybody ostensibly is working towards common goals but in reality each member has their own agenda and refuses to cooperate with others.
47 • Distro or mod @45 (by pengxuin on 2020-09-11 00:11:26 GMT from New Zealand)
"A distribution should have its own repository".
could not agree more.
all the background stuff that supports the distro is piled onto the parent and expected to be supported at the parents cost.
If, for example, Ubuntu went tits-up, how many *re-spins* would survive the resulting fallout?
48 • Too many... (by Friar Tux on 2020-09-12 14:47:20 GMT from Canada)
I'm curious... those folks claiming that there are way too many distros, do they also want to eliminate similar looking font families? Bitstream, DejaVu, Liberation, Nimbus, and Noto are just a few that come to mind, but if you check, you will find these to be almost exact copies of each other with the differences being so minor as to be mostly invisible. The same is true for most icon themes. Most are just copies of each other with slight variations is tint or tone. And, this is also true for most GUI themes. They appear to vary only in slight tint or tone. (The 'dark' ones being the worst offenders in that they are simply variations of that ugly dark grey.)
I don't believe you can eliminate any of the above - distros included. There are almost nine billion people on this planet. That means nine billion different opinions of how things should be. Even if some agreed on major things, minor details will differ. Hence, a plethora of similar looking distros/themes/ideas, with minor differences in detail that only some will notice and appreciate. Linux ain't broke so don't try fixin' it.
49 • @48 Friar Tux (by dragonmouth on 2020-09-13 00:12:27 GMT from United States)
" Linux ain't broke so don't try fixin' it. "
That's like saying that since I'm not dead at 600, 700, 800 pounds, I can go on eating food because I can and it is available.
Linux may not be broken but most distros are carrying a lot of excess baggage and they are continuing to get bigger.
Unless I am a professional ransom note writer, I will not need 150 fonts installed by default. It's enough that they are available for download after the distro is installed.
Why do some distros install language packs for every language and dialect spoken/written on this planet? There are even some distros that install a Klingon language pack. Libre Office does it right. It installs one language as a default and offers others for download.
Why do distro developers insist on installing drivers for dozens of printers, sound and video cards and network cards? Then make it impossible to uninstall most of those drivers without wrecking the system?
I try to keep my Installs lean by uninstalling as many packages as I am allowed to that I will never use. Among the dozens of distros I have tried, I have yet to come across one that I don't uninstall at least 70 packages and freeing up at least 100 Megabytes of space. I have run across distros from which I uninstalled over 1 gigabyte worth of packages I wasn't going to use. And those were not PCLinuxOS Full Monty or the Ultimate Edition.
Correction: I have not been able to uninstall any packages from Ubuntu-based distros because each and every package is tied to the Ubuntu-minimal and/or other system packages.
50 • Ahhh, point proven (by Friar Tux on 2020-09-13 13:28:29 GMT from Canada)
You just proved the whole point, here. Now go out and start a distro that has only the bare minimum of language packs, themes, fonts, etc., installed and share it with the rest of us as there are others that feel as you do and would most likely use it if available.
51 • omit the (by dinosaur on 2020-09-13 17:09:27 GMT from Norway)
The reason for craming in as much as possible is to ease the support burden spesially for people transitioning from Windows or Mac around the world.
If you have been around in Linux/GNU world for a while should by now know that several options are available for minimal base-installs and have been around for a loong time.
So if you find yourself uninstalling most uneeded packages every day, I would claim you are doing it wrong. Take the time starting in the other end, it's also a good learning opportunity with a good dash frustration in between.
Yes, there are many packages with silly dependencies which could have been optional.
Again this is done to save time and support, but
also here, We have the option to packaged them ourself without, ... for the time being;
at least that's the road I choose. Peace!
52 • @ 49, @51 (by caveman on 2020-09-13 18:19:03 GMT from United States)
@49 -would be better if more devs will work toghether on less distros- doesn't mean -should be less distros-
@51 "The reason for craming in as much as possible is to ease the support burden spesially for people transitioning from Windows or Mac around the world."
Please, stop beveling that Windows and Mac users around the world:
1. are stupid.
2. think about switching to Linux.
3. If they do, won't be able to us it. (The ones who heard and tried Linux, don't use it because Linux is not that good as YOU think. Someone willing to mess around with it, can make Win10 work way better and way faster than any distro out there, trust me.)
53 • @ #49 dragonmouth (by Mee Nee Mew on 2020-09-13 18:40:31 GMT from Canada)
@ #49 dragonmouth
"Correction: I have not been able to uninstall any packages from Ubuntu-based distros because each and every package is tied to the Ubuntu-minimal and/or other system packages."
As said by #51 dinosaur, If you have been around in Linux/GNU world for a while should by now know that several options are available for minimal base-installs and have been around for a loong time.
-2nd approach would be look in synaptic for Ubuntu-minimal for installed files. Use dpkg-repack --generate Ubuntu-minimal, Modify the contents, rebuild Ubuntu-minimal.deb with dpkg -b and re-install - over-install.
-3rd approach Once your set of packages requirement is absolutely clear, get all the packages you want, then dismental Ubuntu distro to the raw ingredients, and re-build the CD.
-4th aproach, sticking to Grand-Parent Debian is suggested with 3rd approach.
PS: Just broke the ice to help someone to who already helped, I am a seldom visitor.
Number of Comments: 53
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MilaX
MilaX was a small-size live-CD distribution which runs completely off a CD or a USB storage device. It was based on OpenSolaris Nevada and includes its basic features. It originally started as an experiment to see how much OpenSolaris software could fit on a mini-CD, but it eventually became a full-fledged OpenSolaris distribution. It was also possible to use MilaX as a rescue CD. It can be installed on storage media with a small capacity, including bootable business cards, USB flash drives, memory cards, and Zip drives. MilaX was free to use, modify and distribute.
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