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1 • Static vs dynamic (by Technosaurus on 2020-08-10 01:55:52 GMT from United States)
First, some libraries are just plain bad at static builds (gnu-libc, x11, glib, gtk, most c++ libs) but many have alternatives such as musl-libc, tinyx11, etc...
If you use link time optimization (or similar), the size difference in the binaries is often negligible (and sometimes smaller than the shared binary)
Since the system doesn't need to load up additional shared libraries, the initial start time of static builds is often much quicker.
Static builds can work on different distros regardless of what packages are installed.
Dynamic library updates don't break static binaries (important for system repair tools).
Updates to static binaries are only necessary iff it uses the library code that required a CVE.
The updates for static builds could take advantage of binary diff tools to minimize network traffic - it's usually pretty minimal if the build systems don't change.
Anecdote:
Back when I was working on Puppy Linux (4.x timeframe), we used a hybrid method in the main iso where any library that was only used once was built in statically, but that was based on iso size constraints - static builds of single use libs reduced the iso size by 10-20%.
2 • Dynamic linking & static linking (by Friar Tux on 2020-08-10 01:58:22 GMT from Canada)
Isn't that the whole idea behind Flatpak, Snaps, and/or AppImages? And don't developers benefit in that it reduces the amount of work needed to satisfy the various distros? I've come to the point where I'm really not worried about duplication of libraries on my system, thanks to the amount of memory most laptops come with now-a-days. (This may be from my Windows years as Windows installs each app/program into its own folder WITH all the libraries needed. There was plenty of duplicating there.)
3 • Grub update issue (by Bin on 2020-08-10 04:22:22 GMT from United Kingdom)
Running Debian SparkyLinux 5.12 with unattended upgrades.
Normally UA handles grub updates - this time it didn't.
Dumped out at grub rescue prompt
Used rescatux to correct grub and all well. grub is now on the exception list along with xserver.
4 • Static vs dynamic linking (by Alexandru on 2020-08-10 07:37:14 GMT from Austria)
First of all, congrats for insightful article.
Static linking and dynamic linking both have their use cases.
1. Size. Static linking only gets those bits of a library which are actually used, dynamic linking always provides whole library. On the other hand, dynamic linking takes the storage space only once, while static linking takes space as many times as many different programs use that library.
2. Loading time. Statically linked programs usually load faster than dynamically linking ones except the case when the dynamic library is already loaded into memory by some other application that links against it. In this case new dynamically linked application (whose size is smaller than that of statically linked one) is loaded faster.
3. Uniformity. The same application which is statically linked to different versions of the same library, or different libraries that export the same symbols, may look or behave differently. And this is counter-intuitive. Additionally static linking creates problems with the size of updates and shortness of time they are available.
In conclusion:
- Static linking use cases:
1. The library is small
2. The library is used by few programs
- Dynamic linking use case are all the rest.
5 • Static vs dynamic linking (by Robert_M on 2020-08-10 09:17:35 GMT from Canada)
Historically, dynamic linking was used over static linking in order to reduce the memory and disk space footprint on a system.
When I started my career in computers, a 10 megabyte Winchester disk drive was several thousand dollars and memory was $1 per word. This was for unix based systems. I had a university professor who said that times were great as he remembered memory being $1 per bit. People of my generation actually remember real "core" memory.
It was not unusual to have systems with 1-2 K of memory and 20-40 mbytes of storage. We were memory constrained at the time. A system with 4gig of storage was a large system.
Dynamic linking reduced the need for expensive upgrades but came at a cost. When I worked for an R&D firm that had several thousand unix boxes, it would take about 6 months to a year to ensure that all applications were converted over to work with a new release. A very painful process.
This was at the time when tcp/ip networks were fairly new and the internet was a collection of statically connected sites. We initially had two diskless workstations configured to a single disk based system to reduce deployment costs.
Times were different back then. Today, with current memory and storage prices , it makes sense to come full circle and look static linking to take advantage of its simplicity. As an end user, I am constantly upgrading and I think of my systems as a collection of packages and not libraries. I feel that anything that makes a package self-contained is a good thing.
I am having a blast working with raspberry pi s that have the same power and storage of $30k workstation in the past for sub $100.
My apologies for the long rant, but to understand where we are, we need to understand where we've come from. Context is everything.
Now back to lurking.....
6 • Zentyal (by Bernard Fuller on 2020-08-10 09:28:17 GMT from United Kingdom)
I tried Zentyal in the past and never felt comfortable with it. I seem to remember that one server distribution I tried didn't include a Mail Server, was it this one??
I've been using ClearOS now for several years. If you get the chance, or have the energy, I'd be interested to hear what you make of that. Apart from their forum, I sometimes feel I'm working in a vacuum with it.
Some other independent view would be interesting.
7 • Static vs Dynamic Linking (by Newby on 2020-08-10 10:12:50 GMT from Canada)
@5 Enjoyed reading about your experience with "period era" hardware. Brought back painful memories of trying to input data on a Data General computer with 4K of core memory, via 8 toggle switches on the front panel.
For a more "excruciating" experience, there was inputting data into an IBM mainframe via punch cards. It could be a while before you got the results and found out if you were successful or not, and then try and remember what you were trying to do so you could "troubleshoot". And that was assuming the mechanics were aligned properly so the cards didn't "jam up".
And who could forget the joys of waiting ages for a cassette tape program to finish loading a simple game on a Commodore or Atari system (as well as Apple, Sinclair/Timex, BBC "Micro", etc.)
At the very end of your history lesson about "linking", you intrigued as with a reference about "lurking". Would be rather interesting if you could expound upon that. So many nefarious possibilities inferred by that last line..... :)
8 • LMDE (by OstroL on 2020-08-10 10:23:44 GMT from Poland)
>> LMDE is small but that’s not particularly relevant. It doesn’t get point-releases, it’s not promoted or given the same exposure, and its purpose isn’t to compete with Linux Mint or to attract new users. It’s developed as a plan B in case we need to switch package base one day. It could be seen as a costly investment but it’s strategically important to our project. It tells us exactly how much we rely on Ubuntu, how well we can do without it, and how much work would be involved if we had to stop using it.
9 • grub update issue (by CatInAHat on 2020-08-10 11:14:55 GMT from Australia)
on 'extra' OS, MX with grub on root Partition: update used grub-install (as a tui) to ask which location to update/install grub - eh? chose my current location of course... next boot gave me grub rescue prompt :P had to use SystemRescueCd to boot OS, repaired grub with MX Boot Repair tool
primary OS, MX with grub on mbr: same process, reboot = fine...
secondary OS, Artix, no issue...
10 • Static linking (by bison on 2020-08-10 14:14:33 GMT from United States)
One class of programs that would benefit from static linking are games.
I like to play older versions of SuperTuxKart (before they changed the game physics), but these will not run on modern Linux systems because they depend on obsolete shared libraries, which cannot be installed because they conflict with other libraries on the system.
I keep a copy of Ubuntu 14.04 around just for games.
11 • Static vs Dynamic (by Nathan on 2020-08-10 14:15:11 GMT from United States)
Static vs dynamic to me is a question of how I want abandonware to fail. As a prolific author of abandonware myself, it always has bugged me how android apps that I released never to update again would benefit from security patches if only I re-compiled them against updated libraries (of course, fixing breakages along the way). Sure they continue working (mostly), but they quickly become vulnerable to attacks because of the vulnerable libraries that are baked in. Same applies to my flatpak apps.
On the other hand, whenever I attempt to launch my dynamically-linked abandonware after a year or so of not touching it, I find that it errors out and I have to fix a few broken library calls first.
In the end, for me it boils down to security. If I want to be forced to have good security, dynamic linking is better. If I just want to run the program, never mind that it exposes me to an ever-expanding list of vulnerabilities, then static linking allows me that luxury. Unfortunately for me, I'm both lazy and a security minded person, so I live in constant guilt and worry about my statically-linked programs betraying me. ;)
12 • Linking, and file hash algorithms (by RJA on 2020-08-10 14:31:09 GMT from United States)
Well, over at the PaleMoon community, using the system libraries instead of libraries that are bundled with the package is a big no-no, because of outdated/wrong library versions.
Well, looks like Microsoft made the move to SHA-2 and considers even SHA-1 a risk.
SHA-1 has been considered a risk for a while, but has been tolerable.
So, I was horrified to see MD5! (Including Zentyal)
-RJA
13 • linking in programs (by Myrtle on 2020-08-10 15:07:03 GMT from United States)
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1993390/static-linking-vs-dynamic-linking
That page said it well and ended it well with a lot of "it depends" in answer to questions about performance.
Test test test is the takeaway, and in an environment as close to the real world working conditions as possible.
14 • Dynamically linked programs (by Tim on 2020-08-10 15:13:51 GMT from United States)
Jesse, that is an excellent paragraph about the benefits of dynamically linked programs. I have known that for many years (I started using UNIX in the early 80s), but it is great to get such a clear summary. Thank you.
FWIW, for the same reasons, I will avoid Flatpaks and Snaps for as long as possible. If they back me into a corner, I will switch to BSD.
15 • Linux Mint LMDE (by barnabyh on 2020-08-10 16:55:44 GMT from Germany)
Shame only 1% of Mint users run LMDE. It's exceptionally polished and runs really well without as much overhead, it could easily be the main edition. No idea what it is supposedly missing when compared to the Ubuntu Mint. Ok, I only used that one briefly about 11 years ago. Perhaps the hardware driver assistant I read about but how many people actually need that? Most is well supported ootb and adding the nVidia driver is not that hard.
Synaptic shows me 60010 packages available so it can't be availability of packages either.
Hope they don't discontinue it, it's the only Mint I would even consider. Running well for 16 months here incl. the upgrade.
16 • Linux Mint (by narly on 2020-08-10 18:48:53 GMT from United States)
I recently updated from Linux Mint 19 to 20. I wanted to wipe my hard drives and start over again from scratch. I also wanted to switch to the Xfce desktop. I gave up on MATE because it started to get buggy. Cinnamon is OK, but I like the speed and simplicity of Xfce better now. I did try LMDE4, but had intermittant wifi problems with my laptop. Now I'm happily running Linux Mint 20 Xfce on both my laptop and desktop.
17 • Linux Mint (by yrotadnam on 2020-08-10 20:59:06 GMT from New Zealand)
@8,@15 - I see LMDE as no more than an insurance policy by Mint. Rather unpolished in its current state, but important as Canonical could be bought or become unpredictable.
@17 - Cinnamon is good though I see some crashes and hangups. MATE is again in my experience more stable, has wobbly windows, but is a bit dated. I have tried Xfce but find it lacking after Cinnamon's powerhouse of ease-of-use, particularly things like file managers are where many DE's fall down. KDE have improved much over time, but Mint dropped KDE. You can add it, but its 4.1 which is ancient and rubbish compared to the new 5.8 or whatever you would get with Manjaro.
my 10c, YMMV
18 • Mint KDE, @17 (by WhatMeWorry on 2020-08-11 01:03:39 GMT from United States)
"You can add it, but its 4.1"
You can easily add KDE to Mint 20 by enabling Kubuntu backports, and it runs well. Currently it's 5.18.5. (Manjaro is on 5.19.3) Question is, why? If staying in the Ubuntu family, there's Kubuntu; and there's neon, which has the latest. I ran Mint for many years. Had many advantages for me, but in the last few years, the differences between Mint and others have become minor. I just choose a distro that offers the desktop I want.
19 • @18-- Mint. (by R. Cain on 2020-08-11 23:30:04 GMT from United States)
"...Question is, why?...in the last few years, the differences between Mint and others have become minor..."
It's been a very long time since there was any compelling reason to consider using Mint.
20 • LMDE (by other Tim on 2020-08-12 00:20:36 GMT from United States)
I need to push back a little on this idea that LMDE is just a backup plan for Mint and that it's unpolished.
I happily used LMDE 2 for years. There was nothing unpolished about it. The only reason newer LMDEs don't interest me is that I use MATE.
LMDE is a nice option because it's simple to set up a system with it, and by enabling Debian backports you can have relatively fresh packages on a very stable base for many years. There have been many times I've been wishing for a "Ubuntu Backports" but that role is taken by PPAs and sometimes its hard to see who you can trust.
Debian and LMDE are not unpolished. If you take the time to gain even basic knowledge of APT, it's more intuitive and much faster than any of these software stores that people think they need. I use all members of the Debian family (including Ubuntu and Mint) but I think it's been more than six years since I bothered opening a software store. My copies of Ubuntu or Mint are managed the same way my copies of Debian are.
21 • LMDE, @20 (by WhatMeWorry on 2020-08-12 09:32:41 GMT from United States)
"I need to push back a little on this idea that LMDE is just a backup plan for Mint" You'd be pushing back against the Mint devs, since they are the ones saying that. As for being unpolished, it seems OK to me, but I'm not a regular user.
"relatively fresh packages" Debian backports are usually taken from "testing", so "fresh" is definitely relative. Ubuntu does have backports, usually enabled by default.
I don't use the app stores much either, but "basic knowledge of APT" is no substitute for Synaptic. (And vice versa.)
22 • In the last few years... (by Friar Tux on 2020-08-12 13:36:10 GMT from Canada)
@19 (R Cain) "...in the last few years, the differences between Mint and others have become minor..." Some of us see that as a good thing. So long as those others work as well and as problem-free as Mint has worked (for me). Also, it's to be expected. With the number of distros out there, and each one 'improving' with each version, it stands to reason they will soon all meld together. While I like having the choice of hundreds of distros, I can foresee a time when they will all meld into one 'super-distro'. The other route is that we will end up with five or six different versions of Linux and/or BSD, with hundreds of distros in each version. But then, that's freedom for you. (It reminds me of the auto industry. While it only takes four wheels and a motor to get you from point A to point B, still, look how many, many models of vehicles we have come up with.)
23 • Grub Boot(black)hole (by cykodrone on 2020-08-12 19:16:31 GMT from France)
No, my humble dual distro lappy was not affected (Devuan grub), but I must say, that's embarrassing, I bet some faces were as red as RH's logo, eek. :/
24 • @20--"Backup Plan" (by R. Cain on 2020-08-13 13:02:15 GMT from United States)
"I need to push back a little on this idea that LMDE is just a backup plan for Mint..."; "...I happily used LMDE 2 for years..." [this last lends *no* credibility to the commenter's objection; it is NOT ABOUT you, folks]
One needs to be aware of history, to not fall victim to the "Facebook Syndrome" of 'putting it out there' without doing any thinking OR research, before rushing to "...push back..."; to wit--
Clement Lefebvre *HIMSELF* said a few years ago, in one of Mint's blogs or forums, that yes, indeed, the entire, SOLE purpose of developing LMDE was as an insurance policy" against any untoward circumstances which might occur if Mint were absolutely, only tied and committed to Ubuntu.
Push back all you like, folks. Know what you're talking about when you do.
25 • Lmde (by Tim on 2020-08-14 02:07:27 GMT from United States)
I know exactly what I'm talking about: that LMDE is a good distro that gave me a problem free two years.
Clem and Mint are super clear why they make LMDE. My argument is not with them- it's with those voices here dismissing LMDE as unpolished and not worth anything other than this backup plan. If you like Cinnamon and know how to use apt, this might be the distro for you.
26 • LMDE & Mint (by M.Z. on 2020-08-14 20:12:36 GMT from United States)
I've had a lot of good years with LMDE, and it has seemed fairly solid all around to me. It's got plenty of good polish & is very stable, while offering the friendly & easy sort of desktop computing users expect out of Mint. If you use any sort of general PC desktop like KDE/Windows then LMDE could be an excellent distro for you.
The only thing LMDE sort of lacks for me now is the level BTRFS + Timeshift integration in the update manager in LMDE 4 verses LMDE 3. In the previous release I could use Calamares to more easily setup partitions as BTRFS & get the whole thing up & running & doing daily snapshots. There was no need to ever use my daily or weekly BTRFS snaps shots in LMDE 3 give how rock solid stable it was, but that level of stability + a back up plan in a dirt simple desktop distro was very compelling to me. I gave up on additional trouble shooting of getting LMDE4 on BTRFS to load via my Grub customizer in Mageia, though it may well work as well in the main edition as it did for me in LMDE 3.
I could wax poetic about how quickly Mint integrated flatpak into their nice & easy software manager, how long they offered BTRFS + Timeshift before Ubuntu started playing with experimental ZFS support, or how they continue to consistently improve their easy to use set of desktop options. Regardless of all that or how many more details could be given, Mint is one of if not the biggest community based Linux distros & one of the most widely used distros as well, and given how good an alternative it is for windows I can see many compelling reasons why.
27 • Mint (by Friar Tux on 2020-08-14 22:32:28 GMT from Canada)
@26 (MZ) I agree 100%. In fact, Mint is so trouble-free (four years for me) that the joke in my family is that I have to play with other distros to keep my Linux skills up to par. Clem and gang have got one rock solid OS there (LMDE included). Plus, if you don't care for the default polish, you can easily change that. Just hope over to pling.org have have fun. (I'm interpreting polish as the visuals. I could be wrong here.)
28 • SOHO server distros (by Ankleface Wroughlandmire on 2020-08-14 23:16:37 GMT from Ecuador)
Zentyal looks quite underwhelming. If you have hardware that supports it I'd always recommend TrueNAS as the first option. Or if you prefer something Linux-based and/or have less-common or even extremely uncommon hardware, then OpenMediaVault is your solution. It's Debian-based, and can be installed directly as a distro on most normal hardware. But if you have something more arcane you can install it on top of a regular Debian install. Proof in point, I found a site that let me install Debian on an old Lacie NAS with an armv5 processor, and now it runs OpenMediaVault just fine.
29 • "...trouble free.." (by Otis on 2020-08-15 12:16:00 GMT from United States)
@27 I agree but about MX, not Mint. Same thing except it's been only two years (or there abouts) for me. And minus the systemd.
Number of Comments: 29
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| • Issue 1039 (2023-10-02): Zenwalk Current, finding the duration of media files, Peppermint OS tries out new edition, COSMIC gains new features, Canonical reports on security incident in Snap store |
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| • Issue 1001 (2023-01-09): Arch Linux, Ubuntu tests new system installer, porting KDE software to OpenBSD, verifying files copied properly |
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| • Issue 999 (2022-12-19): Favourite distributions of 2022, Fedora plans Budgie spin, UBports releasing security patches for 16.04, Haiku working on new ports |
| • Issue 998 (2022-12-12): OpenBSD 7.2, Asahi Linux enages video hardware acceleration on Apple ARM computers, Manjaro drops proprietary codecs from Mesa package |
| • Issue 997 (2022-12-05): CachyOS 221023 and AgarimOS, working with filenames which contain special characters, elementary OS team fixes delta updates, new features coming to Xfce |
| • Issue 996 (2022-11-28): Void 20221001, remotely shutting down a machine, complex aliases, Fedora tests new web-based installer, Refox OS running on real hardware |
| • Issue 995 (2022-11-21): Fedora 37, swap files vs swap partitions, Unity running on Arch, UBports seeks testers, Murena adds support for more devices |
| • Issue 994 (2022-11-14): Redcore Linux 2201, changing the terminal font size, Fedora plans Phosh spin, openSUSE publishes on-line manual pages, disabling Snap auto-updates |
| • Issue 993 (2022-11-07): Static Linux, working with just a kernel, Mint streamlines Flatpak management, updates coming to elementary OS |
| • Issue 992 (2022-10-31): Lubuntu 22.10, setting permissions on home directories, Linux may drop i486, Fedora delays next version for OpenSSL bug |
| • Issue 991 (2022-10-24): XeroLinux 2022.09, learning who ran sudo, exploring firewall tools, Rolling Rhino Remix gets a fresh start, Fedora plans to revamp live media |
| • Issue 990 (2022-10-17): ravynOS 0.4.0, Lion Linux 3.0, accessing low numbered network ports, Pop!_OS makes progress on COSMIC, Murena launches new phone |
| • Issue 989 (2022-10-10): Ubuntu Unity, kernel bug causes issues with Intel cards, Canonical offers free Ubuntu Pro subscriptions, customizing the command line prompt |
| • Issue 988 (2022-10-03): SpiralLinux 11.220628, finding distros for older equipment and other purposes, SUSE begins releasing ALP prototypes, Debian votes on non-free firmware in installer |
| • Issue 987 (2022-09-26): openSUSE's MicroOS, converting people to using Linux, pfSense updates base system and PHP, Python 2 dropped from Arch |
| • Full list of all issues |
| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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| Shells.com |
Your own personal Linux computer in the cloud, available on any device. Supported operating systems include Android, Debian, Fedora, KDE neon, Kubuntu, Linux Mint, Manjaro and Ubuntu, ready in minutes.
Starting at US$4.95 per month, 7-day money-back guarantee
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| Random Distribution | 
Toutou Linux
Toutou Linux was an open-source Linux operating system based on the tiny, yet powerful and popular Puppy Linux distribution, specially designed to be compatible with old hardware. The system uses the lightweight Openbox as its default window manager and LXPanel as its main taskbar. It features various customisation options. Toutou Linux uses OCI, a custom-built application that automates the installation, a first-boot assistant for configuring several aspects of the desktop, and Opera as the default web browser. Toutou Linux was distributed as a single live CD image supporting the 32-bit architecture only. Its default language was French, but other languages can be added.
Status: Discontinued
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| TUXEDO |
TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite
Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
Learn more about our full service package and all benefits from buying at TUXEDO.
|
| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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