 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 875, 20 July 2020 |
Welcome to this year's 29th issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
The Ubuntu distribution has proven to be a popular starting point for developers planning to create their own projects. Ubuntu serves as the base for over 50 distributions that re-spin, customize, or otherwise build upon Ubuntu packages. This week we begin with a look at a lightweight, newcomer-friendly distribution in the Ubuntu family called Linux Lite. Read on to find out how Linux Lite tries to make users' lives easier. In our News section we talk about ReactOS hiring a developer to work on key components of the operating system while the UBports team fixes Wi-Fi issues on the PinePhone. Plus we share highlights from the FreeBSD project's Quarterly Status Report and Debian's refreshed install media. Then we discuss which distributions have easy access to VeraCrypt encryption software in our Questions and Answers column. Recently there has been talk about commercial support options being made available for LibreOffice and we would like to hear your thoughts about that in our Opinion Poll. Would you be interested in a formally supported LibreOffice package for work or home? This week we are pleased to welcome the Linux Mint based HamoniKR distribution to our database and we have details on this project below. Plus we share details on recent releases and list the torrents we are seeding. We wish you all a wonderful week and happy reading!
Content:
- Review: Linux Lite 5.0
- News: ReactOS hires storage developer, UBports fixes Wi-Fi issues on PinePhone, FreeBSD publishes status report, Debian updates install media
- Questions and answers: Easy access to VeraCrypt packages
- Released last week: Univention Corporate Server 4.4-5, EndeavourOS 2020.07.15
- Torrent corner: Archman, Bluestar, EndeavourOS, KaOS, KDE neon, Linuxfx, Robolinux, Smoothwall, Univention, Volumio
- Opinion poll: Purchasing LibreOffice
- New additions: HamoniKR
- Reader comments
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (18MB) and MP3 (13MB) formats.
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
Linux Lite 5.0
Linux Lite is an Ubuntu-based desktop distribution featuring the Xfce desktop. The project includes several "Lite"-branded tools to make system maintenance easier. The project also provides a good deal of documentation that covers how to perform common tasks and customizations.
The distribution's latest release, Linux Lite 5.0, is based on Ubuntu 20.04 which is a long-term support release. The project provides one 64-bit (x86_64) edition. The new version includes UEFI and Secure Boot support along with an automatic integrity check of the live media:
UEFI is now supported out of the box. It is recommended that you disable Secure Boot even though it will work, it's just a huge hassle to have it enabled. See the new inbuilt Help Manual for ways to do this on the Start page.
No hidden telemetry: Integrity Check during live boot (an Ubuntu implementation) Ctrl+C cancels check.
There are a few other changes in this release, including swapping out the GUFW firewall tool for FireWallD, which is reportedly disabled by default. We are also treated to a new software update notification system which can be configured to check for new packages at set intervals and will let us know when new software fixes become available.
GUFW has been replaced by the highly configurable FireWallD (disabled by default).
New Updater notifier: Enabled by default to check for updates twice per day, and only notify when there are updates.
Live environment
Booting from the project's 1.3GB media brings up a menu which allows us to start a live desktop environment or immediately launch the system installer. Taking the live desktop option automatically starts an integrity check of the media, which we can skip. Then the distribution boots and launches the Xfce desktop. A welcome window appears on the desktop which features buttons we can click to open commonly used configuration tools. Most of these should only be used once the distribution has been installed so I will talk about them later. The welcome window also includes links to the distribution's on-line forum, manual, and information about working with UEFI & Secure Boot.
There was no button for launching the system installer in the welcome window, but there is an icon for the installer - along with the settings panel, documentation, and file manager - on the desktop. The Xfce panel is placed along the bottom of the screen with the application menu to the left and system tray on the right.
Linux Lite 5.0 -- The application menu
(full image size: 95kB, resolution: 1360x768 pixels)
Installing
Linux Lite uses the Ubiquity system installer, a graphical program it inherits from Ubuntu. The installer begins by asking us to select our preferred language from a list and it offers to show us the project's release notes. The link to open the release notes was broken and did not display any information. The following screens offer to download software updates and third-party codecs & drivers. We are then asked if we would like to manually partition the disk or have the installer handle the disk layout. The two automated options are to use a LVM volume or a ZFS volume which will take over the entire disk. As I had tried the ZFS option when exploring Ubuntu a few months ago I decided to do the same again in order to better compare the two distributions. The manual partitioning option, should we wish to use it, is pleasantly friendly while still providing a good deal of flexibility in working with partitions and filesystem types. We are then asked to pick our time zone from a map of the world and make up a username and password combination for ourselves.
Once the installer is finished it offers to restart the computer. When I instead chose to return to the live desktop a pop-up appeared indicating there were software updates available to be installed. This would have installed them to the live environment which would not have been useful to me, so I ignored the offer and continued exploring the live desktop.
Early impressions
My fresh copy of Linux Lite booted to a graphical login screen where I could sign into the Xfce 4.14 desktop. Once I had signed in the welcome window returned. Earlier I mentioned the welcome application lists a number of common tasks we may wish to perform shortly after installing the distribution. The buttons on the welcome window invite us to install updates, check for new hardware drivers, create a restore point, add language support, and switch desktop themes.
Linux Lite 5.0 -- The distribution's documentation
(full image size: 236kB, resolution: 1360x768 pixels)
The update button opens a minimal update tool which lets us know what software packages can be upgraded. This tool had very few features and worked well. Clicking the button for drivers opens the Software Sources tool to the Additional Drivers tab and offers to install third-party drivers if any are available for our hardware. In my case there were no alternative drivers offered and I moved on.
The button to create restore points opens the Timeshift application which can schedule backups of the operating system. Timeshift can make file copies using the rsync tool or Btrfs snapshots, if we have the advanced Btr filesystem installed. I had opted to use ZFS (instead of Btrfs) and, while ZFS also supports filesystem-level snapshots, Timeshift cannot work with ZFS at this time. As an alternative we can manually manage ZFS snapshots from the command line.
The language support button in the welcome window opened a tool which listed the languages installed on my system. A warning immediately popped-up and let me know language support was not properly installed for English and offered to correct this. Language packages were then downloaded onto my system.
The theme button in the welcome window simply allows us to toggle between Lite's dark and light themes. I did not notice much of a difference between the two options, other than the backgrounds of some windows switched between charcoal and white.
Some other features I noticed while poking around the desktop were that Xfce is set up to use two virtual workspaces by default. This can be useful for people who like to keep open many windows at a time, but I tend to find multiple workspaces confuse new users.
Linux Lite 5.0 -- The welcome window and Timeshift
(full image size: 176kB, resolution: 1360x768 pixels)
Something else I've been noticing lately, and this is not specific to Linux Lite, is that Xfce has a crowded logout menu. Choosing to sign out gives us seven options: logout, restart, shutdown, suspend, switch user, hibernate, and hybrid sleep. While there is nothing wrong with these options, I've shown this screen to some less technical users and they generally report recognizing four or five options, but are not familiar with the differences between suspend, hibernate, and hybrid sleep. All of which makes me wonder if distributions might better serve their users by trimming this menu a bit.
Included applications
Looking through the application menu I found most applications were listed with their icon and a brief description of the software. For example, Firefox is listed as Web Browser, Thunderbird as Mail Client, and the GNU Image Manipulation Program as Image Editor. However, not all programs are listed this way and a few show their official name in place of the description.
Digging through the menu I found LibreOffice, the Deja Dup backup utility, the Thunar file manager, and the Timeshift snapshot tool. The VLC media player was included along with codecs for playing popular audio and video formats. I also spotted an archive manager, text editor, and administration tools such as a firewall manager, package manager, and settings panel.
In the background we can find Java, the GNU Compiler Collection, and GNU command line tools. The systemd init software is installed for us. Version 5.4 of the Linux kernel made it all run from behind the scenes.
I found when working from the command line that if I typed the name of a program that was not yet installed, a message would appear in the terminal advising me of the APT command I could use to install the missing software. This happened fairly quickly and did not introduce much of a delay when running commands.
Earlier I mentioned the firewall service is disabled by default. What this means, from the user's point of view, is trying to open the firewall configuration tool pops up an error saying it cannot connect to the FireWallD service. There is no option to enable the firewall from within the graphical tool and, as far as I can tell, there is no service manager in the settings panel or in the application menu. This means to enable the firewall we need to make a trip to the command line to enable and start the firewall service using the systemctl utility. With that done, the graphical firewall tool can be launched and we can use it to configure the firewall.
Linux Lite 5.0 -- Configuring the firewall
(full image size: 146kB, resolution: 1360x768 pixels)
Personally, I'm not a fan of the firewall utility. It is complex and intended, it seems, to be used in multiple environments (called zones). The user is invited to configure the firewall for different zones, using a combination of interfaces, ports, service names, and other rules. Which is flexible and probably useful to some administrators. However, for home users or people in simple office environments it feels much more complex and not much more useful than the previous GUFW tool Lite used in the past. Personally I find GUFW to be much more simple without sacrificing useful functionality.
Hardware
I began by experimenting with Lite in a VirtualBox environment. The distribution ran fairly smoothly and I did not run into any serious problems. My one issue was that the desktop's resolution was limited to 800x600 pixels by default and would not dynamically resize with the VirtualBox window. I found Xfce's resolution could be adjusted through the settings panel.
Linux Lite 5.0 -- The settings panel
(full image size: 125kB, resolution: 1360x768 pixels)
When I switched over to running Lite on a laptop I found performance was good, the desktop ran smoothly and used my screen's full resolution. Networking and audio worked perfectly on the laptop and the system was stable. I was able to confirm the distribution would boot in UEFI mode as advertised.
I found that Lite would sometimes boot slowly once it was installed. This appeared to be triggered when there was a delay in bringing the network interfaces on-line. Though I did not find a cure for this issue, it was a minor detail and only slowed down my boot times by around ten seconds or so.
A fresh install of Linux Lite used about 3.5GB of disk space. When installed on ZFS the system used about 980MB of memory once I had signed into the Xfce desktop. When I was running on ext4 instead of ZFS the distribution consumed just 460MB of memory. The welcome window, which launched automatically when I first signed in, tended to use up an extra 60MB of memory, bringing the total RAM consumption up slightly.
Software management
People running Linux Lite have a few options for managing software packages. The Synaptic package manager, a classic, low-level package manager is included. It makes it possible to queue multiple packages to be installed, removed, or upgraded. Synaptic can also manage repositories. Synaptic's interface is geared toward lower level work rather than providing a friendly, modern application installer.
For people who want a more streamlined experience there is Lite Software. This program begins by asking if we would like to install or remove software. Taking the install option brings up a list of about 30 desktop applications we can install. These are mostly popular items like Redshift, Steam, and Skype. Each item is accompanied by a brief description. We can click one or more of these items to highlight them, then click a button to install the selected items. I found Lite Software, while it lists a small collection of packages, worked without any problems.
If we take the removal option when launching Lite Software then the program displays a list of applications it knows how to remove. It seems the software manager can only remove applications it also knows how to install. This means, for example, I could use Lite Software to remove the Steam package, but not LibreOffice.
There is an icon in the system tray which, when clicked, will give us the option of installing available software updates or changing the frequency in which we check for new updates. I like that Lite is flexible in how often these automated checks are performed. The update manager was a tool I used infrequently, but it worked each time without error.
Conclusions
One of the reasons I wanted to test Linux Lite 5.0 was to see how it would compare to Ubuntu 20.04. In particular I was curious to see if both distributions, installed with all the default settings (and on ZFS) would encounter similar problems or not. As it turned out, Lite ran smoothly and rarely gave me any issues, regardless of the test environment or filesystem being used.
In the past I have found Linux Lite to be a solid desktop distribution, the sort of project I tend to suggest Linux newcomers try, especially if they are on older hardware which might not be responsive when tasked to run the Cinnamon or GNOME desktops. The project's team does a nice job of communicating well and this tends to show itself in the documentation. There are often clear examples or screenshots in the project's release announcements and documentation. The welcome window presents common tasks we might want to use, and I feel the distribution does a fine job of walking the line between streamlining the user experience and providing enough options for more advanced users.
I like the distribution's hardware support, its documentation, its responsiveness, and its custom "Lite" tools. During my trial there was little for me to complain about as I was generally able to dive in and get work done with minimal fuss. I might prefer a friendly software manager with a wider range of applications, or a logout menu with fewer options, but these are tiny nit-picks.
Some of my few complaints or suggestions were with features which were mostly good, but could be improved just a little to make for a smoother user experience. For instance, the firewall service is disabled by default. This is certainly a valid default configuration for a lot of home users. However, when the user tries to launch the firewall tool, it exits with an error saying it cannot connect to the service. This seems like a great opportunity to give the user a choice - close the firewall tool or start the firewall service. This would save them a trip to the command line to enable and start the firewall, which is not something less experienced computer users will be comfortable doing.
Likewise, the Timeshift tool can be very useful, but it only works with rsync and Btrfs. It would be great to have this tool, or a similar one included, that would handle ZFS snapshots since ZFS is a new feature.
I'd like to note that I'm not necessarily suggesting the small Linux Lite team address these missing features, it's probably work that needs to be done upstream as the distribution's developer efforts are limited. In this case Lite is just the vehicle that displays these powerful tools and some areas where they could be improved. Still, I hope these are changes which will show up in a future version as little features like this can make the difference between a good user experience and a great one.
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Hardware used in this review
My physical test equipment for this review was a de-branded HP laptop with the following
specifications:
- Processor: Intel i3 2.5GHz CPU
- Display: Intel integrated video
- Storage: Western Digital 700GB hard drive
- Memory: 6GB of RAM
- Wired network device: Realtek RTL8101E/RTL8102E PCI Express Fast
- Wireless network device: Realtek RTL8188EE Wireless network card
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Visitor supplied rating
Linux Lite has a visitor supplied average rating of: 8/10 from 124 review(s).
Have you used Linux Lite? You can leave your own review of the project on our ratings page.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
ReactOS hires storage developer, UBports fixes Wi-Fi issues on PinePhone, FreeBSD publishes status report, Debian updates install media
The ReactOS team, which develops an open source, binary compatible alternative to Microsoft Windows, has hired a developer to tackle some key components of their operating system. In particular, how ReactOS handles storage media will be improved. "I am proud to announce that ReactOS Deutschland e.V. has hired Victor Perevertkin to work full-time on the ReactOS storage stack for the next 3 months. Victor has been a proven contributor to various ReactOS components since 2018. He already got deep into the kernel side of things when writing Btrfs boot sector code in his GSoC debut, later managed the integration of a new USB stack, and recently touched nearly all parts of ReactOS when preparing it for the major upgrade to a new compiler toolchain. During his contract with ReactOS Deutschland e.V., Victor will primarily work on the storage stack, a long neglected piece of ReactOS. He plans to finally turn scsiport into a Plug & Play aware driver and fix kernel Plug & Play bugs in the process, thereby improving USB storage support and compatibility to Windows storage drivers." Further information can be found in the project's announcement.
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The UBports team has been improving their mobile operating system, adding new features to the Contacts application, sorting out some issues with Wi-Fi on the PinePhone, and making upgrades work smoothly on the PineTab. "Pine64 devices got a Stable update on 4 July, remedying a Wi-Fi failure problem. It uses a hack involving power management, which is not ideal as it cuts a couple of hours off battery life. It is worth it though, as prior to this, there was a wait of 10 to 20 seconds every time you wanted to use Wi-Fi, which made the device almost unusable. Aeroplane mode has also been fixed, after a reboot. The PineTab now has a system update process built in so you don't have to use the installer every time." Additional information on improvements to the UBports operating system can be found in the project's blog post.
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The FreeBSD project has published a Quarterly Status Report which outlines work being done on FreeBSD over the past three months. Some of the highlights includes updated video drivers, encrypted NFS connections, and improvements to the Linux compatibility layer. Efforts have also been made to allow storage to be forcibly unmounted when a device is no longer accessible. "Commit -r361491 on May 25, 2020 enables a UFS file system to do a forcible unmount when the underlying media fails or becomes inaccessible. For example when a USB flash memory card hosting a UFS file system is unplugged. The rest of this report describes in more detail how forcible unmounts are done. Surprisingly, less than 500 lines of file system code were added or changed."
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The Debian project has announced the availability of new install media for Debian 9 "Stretch". The new media is not a new release of the distribution, but provides updated packages with bug fixes to cut down on the number of upgrades a new install of the distribution requires. This is expected to be the last media refresh for Debian 9. "The Debian project is pleased to announce the thirteenth (and final) update of its oldstable distribution Debian 9 (codename Stretch). This point release mainly adds corrections for security issues, along with a few adjustments for serious problems. Security advisories have already been published separately and are referenced where available. After this point release, Debian's Security and Release Teams will no longer be producing updates for Debian 9."
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Easy access to VeraCrypt packages
Looking-to-work-with-file-vaults asks: Have you run across some distros that have VeraCrypt pre-built? I'm not looking for distros with VeraCrypt pre-installed. I'm looking for it to be available in their repositories to install. I have an external hard drive that I want encrypted, but also runnable. I guess I could use LUKS. But will the distro run on an external drive through USB?
DistroWatch answers: Some distributions have VeraCrypt packages in their repositories. The Arch Linux distribution and its many children can access VeraCrypt in the Arch Community repository. The Gentoo project and its children have a port of VeraCrypt.
The VeraCrypt website lists download links for pre-built packages for the Debian, Ubuntu, openSUSE, and CentOS distributions. For anyone else feeling left out, the VeraCrypt site also offers generic builds that should run on most Linux distributions, a FreeBSD package, and the source code for people who need to build the software from scratch.
The original question did not mention which distribution was being used from an external USB drive, but almost all distributions can be installed to, and run from, removable media. Booting from removable media can be slower than using an internal hard drive, but assuming your computer supports booting from a USB-attached device (most do) then there should be no problem.
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Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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| Released Last Week |
Univention Corporate Server 4.4-5
Univention Corporate Server (UCS) is an enterprise-class distribution based on Debian GNU/Linux. The distribution's latest release introduces LDAP improvements and single sign-on features: "The release of version 4.4-5 of Univention Corporate Server (UCS) brings a series of technical innovations for the Single Sign-on of users to applications connected to UCS. There are also new functions for the UCS Self Service. Users can now register themselves at a UCS domain via the User Self Service and create a user account, assign a user name and password, and store further information. Performance improvements in the LDAP directory service have accelerated the replication of groups. And in preparation for UCS 5.0, which is scheduled for release at the end of this year, our development department has made more than 45 UCS packages compatible with Python 3. So when you upgrade to UCS 5.0, the corresponding code parts in UCS will run for both Python 2 and Python 3." Further information can be found in the project's release announcement and in the release notes.
EndeavourOS 2020.07.15
EndeavourOS is a rolling release Linux distribution based on Arch Linux. The project aims to be a spiritual successor to Antergos - providing an easy setup and pre-configured desktop environment on an Arch base. The distribution's latest snapshot introduces some package updates along with some new tools for cleaning up package management information and installing alternative kernels. "Package cleanup configuration - A handy tool to set the system to clean up the paccache history of installed packages and reduce it to the last three versions of each installed package after an update. This prevents your root partition from getting clogged up with packages you don't need. AKM - Arch Kernel Management lets you install the several kernel versions and their headers available in the Arch repository with a simple click. Not only does it install Linux kernels it also provides you info which version is in the stable and which one is in the testing repos and it also informs you which version Kernel.org is working on. AKM isn't installed by default, but this is easily done by clicking the button in our Welcome app." Further information can be found in the distribution's release announcement.
KaOS 2020.07
KaOS is a rolling release distribution that focuses on one desktop (KDE Plasma) and one toolkit (Qt). The distribution's latest snapshot provides a series of package updates, more configuration options, and additional firmware for wider hardware support. "You will find Plasma 5.19 on this ISO. Highlights of 5.19 include incorporation of a consistent design and header area for system tray applets as well as notifications, refreshed look of the media playback applet in the System Tray, System monitor widgets have all been rewritten from scratch and Sticky notes get several usability improvements and if you use Wayland, you will also appreciate the new option that lets you configure the mouse and touchpad scroll speed. Frameworks is at 5.72.0, Plasma at 5.19.3, and KDE Applications at 20.04.3. All built on Qt 5.15.0. For the installer Calamares, KaOS has started a move to using as many QML modules as possible. For the Welcome screen that means any text or needed info can now be shown as a QML file within the Calamares window, no need for pop-ups or external applications. The keyboard module is also rewritten in QML, which now gives a much clearer overview of possible keyboard models, languages and variants." Further details may be found in the project's release announcement.
KaOS 2020.07 -- Running the KDE Plasma desktop
(full image size: 840kB, resolution: 1600x900 pixels)
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 2,073
- Total data uploaded: 32.7TB
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) |
Purchasing LibreOffice
The Document Foundation is the organization behind LibreOffice, arguably the most widely used open source productivity suite. The Document Foundation recently began talking about providing a way for LibreOffice users to purchase support for the suite, while continuing to develop and maintain the entirely free LibreOffice applications people use today. Having an optional, commercial branch of LibreOffice could allow companies and individuals to purchase desired support options while opening up a revenue stream for The Document Foundation. We would like to know if you would be interested in purchasing LibreOffice, either for the support or as a way to fund future development?
You can see the results of our previous poll on using Btrfs in last week's edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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Would you purchase LibreOffice?
| Yes - for personal use: | 253 (13%) |
| Yes - for company/office use: | 422 (21%) |
| No: | 1013 (51%) |
| Unsure: | 309 (15%) |
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| Website News (by Jesse Smith) |
New projects added to database
HamoniKR
HamoniKR is a Korean Linux distribution based on Linux Mint's Ubuntu branch. It features the Cinnamon desktop environment. The distribution includes Korean localization and educational software to be used in schools.
HamoniKR 3.0 - running the Cinnamon desktop
(full image size: 984kB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
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DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 27 July 2020. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Article Search page. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
- Bruce Patterson (podcast)
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Linux Lite 5.0 (by Az4x4 on 2020-07-20 01:14:05 GMT from United States)
I've used Linux Lite in the past. Reading Jesse's review reminded me of all the good things that Linux Lite brings to the table. I'd still use it if it was possible to install a desktop environment other than Xfce. Nothing wrong with Xfce, don't get me wrong. Just that it's a long way down the list for my choice of DEs.
Originally I installed Mate using Synaptic. The installation went fine, Synaptic reported no problems. But when I rebooted and looked to select Mate at the login screen it was nowhere to be found. Turned out the developer makes it impossible to replace Xfce with any other DE. That narrow minded approach turned me away from Linux Lite and I've yet to go back. Too many other distros to choose from that don't impose artificial limits on what users are able to do with their desktops like Linux Lite does to mess with it any longer.
2 • Linux can be a circle (by Roy on 2020-07-20 01:21:02 GMT from United States)
When Ubuntu gave back to Debian it was Utnubu. When Android came from Linux kernel and now there is an OS trying to run Android on Linux. I just bought a Chromebook with the option to run Beta Linux. I remember when Chrome browser could be run on Linux.
3 • LibreOffice voted unsure (by zippitey on 2020-07-20 01:22:35 GMT from New Zealand)
On the one hand charging money would bring income, one the other hand it may push users who want everything always free (the majority, I'm guessing) towards 'lesser' office suites. Then you have the option the free vanilla and a paid premium version. But over time more and more standard features creep over the line to the paid-only one. It opens Pandora's Box. Maybe they can make more noise for donations and keep it free? Or follow the Ubuntu model with paid support for corporates.
4 • Pay for LibreOffice? (by DaveW on 2020-07-20 01:39:11 GMT from United States)
I have been making annual donations to The Document Foundation, so the answer would partly depend on how much they were charging. Would the fee be for maintenance only? Would it be for a premium version? What features would be restricted to the premium version?
Impossible to give a definite answer without knowing the exact terms.
5 • Linux Lite, @1 (by Iamgroot on 2020-07-20 02:54:17 GMT from United States)
Installing Mate on Lite is a simple procedure, just like any Ubuntu-based distro. Takes a few minutes and works fine:
https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-install-mate-desktop-on-ubuntu-20-04-focal-fossa-linux
That said, the Lite devs have taken pains to make XFCE usable and elegant so why install it to change desktops. Why not Ubuntu Mate, or Linux Mint, or any other that has Mate as default. Lite is just Ubuntu all dressed up, so what's the advantage?
6 • Paying for LibreOffice - yes! (by Eric Yeoh on 2020-07-20 02:57:17 GMT from Malaysia)
LO has been good to me all these years. The software and code might be free as in tea/beer/coffee/water - but the time and skills of the developers are not - so far, these costs have been borne by their respective companies - isn't it time for us as a community to grow up and understand that time and efforts should be rewarded - preferably through monetary means? Who's going to be doing things free all the time? There are bills to be paid and bellies to be filled!
7 • Do YOU contribute to LibreOffice? Why? (by R. Cain on 2020-07-20 03:07:35 GMT from United States)
"Companies toiling away the most on LibreOffice code complain ecosystem is 'beyond utterly broken' “
The Register, Thu 16 Jul 2020 // 09:26 UTC
https://www.theregister.com/2020/07/16/libreoffice_ecosystem_beyond_utterly_broken/
”...Michael Meeks, managing director at Cambridge-based Collabora...has set out the situation in...detail..."Words fail me to express how beyond-utterly-broken the existing TDF / desktop model is for the ecosystem around selling desktop LibreOffice," he wrote...
”...Meeks believes "LibreOffice is at serious risk," though the matter is complex. TDF has around €1.5m in the bank, Meeks said, but something that may surprise outsiders is that THE FOUNDATION CANNOT AND DOES NOT USE THAT MONEY TO EMPLOY DEVELOPERS...
”...Vignoli [TDF’s Italo Vignoli] confirmed that "TDF has a large cash reserve" but is constrained in how it uses it...”
********************************************
Make certain you read *all* of the 113 comments, not a few of which can be charitably characterized as pure outrage at feeling they have been duped into contributing to ‘The Document Foundation’, to find that these contributions go only to pay the salaries of the “managers” of TDF and maintenance of its slick web-site; and NOT, in any way, shape, or form TO OR FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF LIBREOFFICE.
8 • Pay?.. for LibreOffice?! (by dave the slave on 2020-07-20 03:37:02 GMT from United States)
Sorry but LibreOffice is bloat; one of the first preinstalled things I uninstall. I think maybe 2-3 times in the last 10 years have I run in to a situation where I 'needed' Writer to open a MS .doc file and even then, it wasn't really something I 'needed' to do.
I can understand why people get pressured in to using this sort of thing, but if you're going to live/work/play in a world dominated by MS Word and/or Excel, you should just roll over and install Windows and use that instead of some janky 'free' alternative.
Where I have on occasion, worked with some people who were natively using Gimp's .xcf and not Photoshop's .psd, I've never, ever, ever encountered someone who wanted to share native LibreOffice files, so in my experience, the *only* reason to have Writer installed is to work with the occasional MS Word .doc file and in those cases there are almost always formatting glitches.
Years ago, I tried to convert a friend to Linux and LibreOffice made a fool out of him when it came to collaborating with coworkers who were using .doc files. I would never recommend LibreOffice again after that and I certainly wouldn't recommend paying for it unless there was a gigantic sea change, in which one could expect a considerable percentage of people 'in the wild' to also be using LibreOffice. Until then, no way.. unless it's SUPER cheap.
Since they're currently getting $0 from 99% of users, it shouldn't be expensive, but as someone else already said: I would want more details on their business model before I gave a definite answer. If you've got an entire office setting mandated to using it, maybe that would be the lone acceptable 'paid' scenario.
If 'premium' LibreOffice is expecting to go toe-to-toe with MS Office, they will need a boatload of cash to stay afloat. If they are just trying to keep their heads above water, they should be modest with their 'premium' price and shoot for pity purchases. In that case, even people who rarely touch it might feel like buying it, just to help out. Again, to echo a previous comment; if they are hurting for cash, maybe they should just get pushier about donations, instead of jumping ship and burning the 'free' users. (because that's what will happen once there is a 'free' and 'premium' distinction)
Last year, I stumbled across my dad's old copy of Office 97. I installed Word and ran it with Wine, just to see how it would run and it generally performed 10x better than LibreOffice. Started instantly, felt more responsive, etc. Maybe what we really need is to bring back WordPerfect.
In my opinion, the world would be better off if people used unpretentious plain text, or learned to compile their work from plain text in to .pdf, than to continue monkeying with these ever-growing WYSIWYG menaces. LibreOffice keeps getting bigger and slower. Trying to chase or outmaneuver MS Office simply isn't a viable business in the real world.
9 • No play? No pay! (by the ber on 2020-07-20 04:11:27 GMT from Germany)
I happily use LibreOffice at home. It has a lot going for it, but the deal-killer is the non-compatibility with MS Office. True, you can open and edit WORD documents in WRITER, but forget about using Styles in your documents. Especially forget about sending an edited .docx document back to the office that sent you the original document created with WORD.
On the other hand, I would certainly donate some money if they would fix up the BASE component. But that part seems to be dead.
10 • LibreOffice (by Cor on 2020-07-20 04:44:37 GMT from United States)
I use the suite exclusively. I have introduced others to the benefits of LibreOffice and they all have switched. Why would anyone use an expensive and proprietary office suite, which isn't available for Linux? That doesn't make any sense.
11 • Pay? for Libreoffice? (by unixoid on 2020-07-20 05:54:17 GMT from Tajikistan)
Re: 8
I agree with you. Even though I am a hard core linux user, .doc compatibility
is essential if you are even doing something as simple as mailing a resume. Yes, using pdf format can help but still..
The thing is there is also Freeoffice, that other suite from China and
more recently I have discovered Onlyoffice.
Though not as featureful as Moffice, it seems to offer 100 percent compatibility with .docx files and can be installed as an Appimage. Download, chmod to make it executable and double click. It is the best alternative for those who dont want a clone but clearly an impostor.
To me this kind of thing removes one important barrier to Desktop Linux use in the real world. Unfortunately, it seems that only one obscure Spanish linux distro has adopted it.,
12 • Libreoffice Pay (by Hank on 2020-07-20 06:58:37 GMT from United Kingdom)
I would contribute more/pay for a Libreoffice which does not have the compatibility issues that have gotten me in trouble on several occasions. At present even the distinction Personal edition on LO 7 is going to make it far harder to introduce in schools and university environments. Sounds like a function reduced release for the poor. Compatibility does the rest, and yes I do appreciate MS puts as many stones in the way as possible but also that some other free to use office suits fare better than LO in respect to document exchange.
13 • LibreOffice (by Romane on 2020-07-20 08:20:19 GMT from Australia)
I answered 'unsure' to the survey. It depends if it fixes its underlying problems.
I have run LibreOffice for quite a number of years. My main requirement is to open a large (currently 166 pages, 1Mb and still growing) .docx file to make updates from the author into the HTML version. So far, it has proven suitable to my need, regardless it changing some formatting from Word to LibreOffice. Until...
My distro updated to LibreOffice 7 a week or so ago (Debian Testing). This update has completely broken the search capacity. In trying to locate items in an alphabetically sorted 166 page listing, the search functionality is essential. So far, have been able to work with it, but still frustrating. I suppose if I am going to run the development version, I should expect the odd bug or three :)
@11, thank you for the reference to OnlyOffice. The package is available via flatpak, and I will give it a try. If it suits my needs, great, it will replace LibreOffice. If not...
There is another suite which claims 100% compatibility with MS Word - do not remember the name. I did try it briefly, but it wanted to take up my entire screen. Could not be adjusted, so it was removed in less than 5 minutes. MS Word compatibility - dunno, it didn't survive on my machine long enough to find out.
Also tried OpenOffice - sorry, OpenOffice developers, good as it may be, LibreOffice still trumped.
14 • Pay for LibreOffice? (by OstroL on 2020-07-20 09:13:04 GMT from Poland)
I voted no. There was a time, I needed a word processor and a spreadsheet, and tried to use LibreOffice for that, trying hard to believe in the open-source idea. But, I had to clear lot of format problems, before sending the files to others, who used MS Office. And, when I get a file from them, I had to go through the same trouble. Today, of course, I don't need those apps every single day, (and sorry to say,) whatever I need can be done with MS Office online.
What the open source people should've done is to create something new, rather than running after MS Office, trying to catch up. It is different with WPS, or some other proprietary office suites, for they are trying to earn money offering a cheaper suite for Windows.
Running after, trying to catch up, but never over taking won't bring the desired results.
15 • Paying for LibreOffice (by Trevor on 2020-07-20 09:24:54 GMT from Canada)
I wouldn't mind paying for LibreOffice on a monthly basis, provided the developers make it worth my while to pay (ie:extra features, 100 % compatibility with Microsoft Word, all features enabled, etc). Maybe another option would be doing a scenario such as Fedora/Red Hat has right now. Corporate pays for their support (Red Hat), while the rest of us beta test new features to help the commercial version (Fedora).
16 • LibreOffice (by Roger on 2020-07-20 12:00:59 GMT from Belgium)
For years now I am supporting LibreOffice with donations, but I am not going to buy.
I prefer my method of support because it is on a voluntary basis what is to whole idea behind open standards and free software.
People know that I regularly post here and know that is the way I support and promote GNU/Linux and FSF.
When LibreOffice want a commercial basis as well I wish them good luck and all the best, maybe it's the way to go like Red Hat is doing.
The danger is that they are maybe swallowed up by ....? Like Red Hat was.
Is Canonical on the right track with there profile, only the future will point that out.
17 • Libre Office (by Tim on 2020-07-20 12:25:49 GMT from United States)
I voted No, because I am just a casual home user. However, I am all for the idea for people and businesses that need it.
18 • Two things that = no. (by Friar Tux on 2020-07-20 14:04:38 GMT from Canada)
Linux Lite... as others have said, if they would drop XFCE, I may consider it. But then, why? There are always other Ubuntu derivatives that have the DE of your choice.
With LibreOffice, I voted I would pay in a company/business scenario, but to qualify that, only if compatibility with Microsoft's office suite improved. HOWEVER, I do have to say, I rarely use LO even though it came default with my distro. Between Google, Dropbox, and/or Microsoft's online office suites I haven't needed LO on my system in a few years - and I do a lot of writing. Basically, I do most of my writing on my laptop (using Cherrytree) and then copy it over to whatever office suite I happen to feel like using online. It seems quicker that way, and less of a hassle. As for trying to send someone a document in THEIR MSOffice format, think again. I'm a cantankerous, 68 year old geezer, and I won't do your work for you. I'll send you that document in whatever format the particular office suite I'm using will save it in. OK, 'nuff said.
19 • Nobody seems to care about SoftMaker Office (by Ludditus on 2020-07-20 14:05:16 GMT from Germany)
After years of enthusiasm regarding Linux, I took it much lighter for 4-5 years; among others, I never bothered to comment on DWW (I've been banned in the past).
Now I can see people are still, sorry to say, relatively unsavvy and idealistically naive.
I never cared about the split OpenOffice / LibreOffice. To date, they're both pathetic failures, and bloated like hell. One must believe in the magic of open source and of ideologically pure licenses to use such craps.
SoftMaker Office is around since circa 2006; I guess in 2008 they made the version 2006 free, and then they keep offering a free older edition (so far their only versions are 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2016, 2018, 2021, and the free one is FreeOffice 2016).
There is NO OTHER office suite that is so snappy and with such a clean output and good MS Office compatibility than SoftMaker's.
I just tried both FreeOffice 2018 and the trial edition of SoftMaker Office 2021 (each as a simple .deb or .rpm, no AppImages, FlatPaks or Snaps) on Neptune 6.5 (which means Debian Stable), and everything is perfect.
Meanwhile, millions of ██████ are using LibreOffice, fighting with its idiosyncrasies and bloat. They even want to pay for it.
Wanna pay? There is SoftMaker Office for that.
Don't wanna pay? There's FreeOffice for that. Oh, not FLOSS? Only an █████ would prefer an ideologically pure product to one THAT WORKS, and works well.
20 • @19 Softmaker Office (by OstroL on 2020-07-20 14:59:52 GMT from Poland)
SoftMaker FreeOffice TextMaker cannot open MS Word files in the correct format and the fonts. And, tells the story of all "free" office suites. :)
21 • LibreOffice & Softmaker Office (by fox on 2020-07-20 15:30:52 GMT from Canada)
@19 - I would happily pay for LibreOffice, Softmaker Office, WPS Office or any office suite that runs native on Linux and provides 100% compatibility with Microsoft Office. None of them do, and which is closest seems to depend on the document you are reading with it. Unfortunately, I need that level of compatibility because I collaborate with others, mainly on word processing documents. I use LibreOffice for my own unshared documents; it certainly works well enough for that. But when it comes to collaboration, I use Microsoft Office 2010 running on Crossover Linux. This old edition of MS Office is inexpensive to buy, you get a legitimate license, and it runs perfectly on CrossOver, which I'm happy to pay for. Unfortunately, newer versions of MS Office do not run so well, but 2010 has all I need to collaborate on documents produced in newer versions of Word. I would still prefer to run one of office suites made for Linux and would gladly pay for it if it was compatible, and I constantly test new versions of these when they come out.
22 • Open Office (by David on 2020-07-20 15:31:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
I have a portrait-mode monitor which I bought specifically for word-processing. The latest LibreOffice seems to be designed to run on wide-screen monitors specifically bought for gaming. The result? I went back to OpenOffice. I might pay Apache for that, but not TDF for LibreOffice.
23 • @20 Softmaker compatibility (by Johns Twain on 2020-07-20 15:32:35 GMT from United States)
This straight from Softmaker web site:
"Skip the annoying import and export: SoftMaker Office uses the Microsoft formats DOCX, XLSX and PPTX as its default file formats."
24 • Office options (by John on 2020-07-20 15:37:13 GMT from Canada)
Hi - both WPS Office and OnlyOffice Desktop Editors work perfectly with MS Office file formats. Used both for years and will never go back to the problems of LibreOffice.
25 • @20 Softmaker Office (by Ludditus on 2020-07-20 15:40:05 GMT from Germany)
Sorry but, TextMaker can open most .doc et docx files with the correct formatting. When was the last time you tried it?
LibreOffice can make a mess out of a beeped-up WinWord document.
More often than not, the people who create the documents are the culprits. The INTELLIGENT way of creating a document is to define styles and apply them. Instead of setting in 3,000 places in the document "here I want this typeface," "here I want this size," "here I want bold italic," applying styles such as Heading1, Heading2, TextStandard, TextSmaller, TextBoldItalic allows you to change the styles across an entire document by making a single change. In real life, people select a string every single time and change its formatting. When they want to change it to something else, very often the respective text will carry an entire string of formatting (bold, not bold, italic, 16pt, 24 pt, actual_text, end-24pt, end-16pt, end-italic, end-not-bold, end-bold), instead of a unique style name. Then think of indentation and other paragraph spacing--this is what people ALWAYS make a mess with! With such messy documents created in WinWord or LibreOffice Writer, nobody can deal properly.
26 • Paying for Office (by curious on 2020-07-20 16:43:46 GMT from Germany)
Purely from the end user perspective: If I have to pay for the "full" Office experience, then I might as well get MS Office which ist the "industry standard".
27 • @ 25 (by OstroL on 2020-07-20 16:53:20 GMT from Poland)
"Sorry but, TextMaker can open most .doc et docx files with the correct formatting. When was the last time you tried it?"
Few minutes ago. :)
@23
Oh, sure, everyone advertises. :)
28 • This or that office/word, etc (by Otis on 2020-07-20 17:23:46 GMT from United States)
We tested a lot of them, two side by side and it became apparent to us that Libre and Microsoft are quite similar, with the obvious notable exception of price.
Support to us meant whether or not we'd need to contact techies about this or that hole in our understanding of the use of the software, and so was not needed, thus we felt it not necessary to make a purchase when there are free fully functional versions. This is our mantra about (most) distros, as well; we get to donate as much and as often as we see fit, no licenses to buy.
The other factor that is interesting and huge with some open source users, not us, is that you can modify the code to your needs if you see fit and know how; legally.
As we see it, it's a no-brainer on the choices out there as to "office" types of software.
29 • Linux Lite (by Rick on 2020-07-20 17:45:58 GMT from United States)
I agree with the first of today's comments. The LL creator/developer has a very narrow approach to desktops. It claims to be based on Debian/Ubuntu with DEB package management but installing any other desktop is discouraged and a no-no. You might as well just pick another distro with the Xfce desktop and then install any other desktop as needed. With MX Linux one has at least 5 other desktops to choose from to install in addition to the default Xfce. Linux Lite is a poor choice for people who desire freedom of choice.
30 • Unsure - LibreOffice (by Linux Revolution on 2020-07-20 18:11:35 GMT from United States)
I chose Unsure because of just that. Depends on support they would offer. The only drawback that I would see is the incentive to go the Nextcloud route. First let me state that asking for paid support is not an issue at all and should be an avenue to support DEVS. With that said, much like Nextcloud, hording any useful documentation and support tips, and putting them behind a paywall, would be borderline insidious. Or having support staff lurk in community forums and offer links to individuals seeking support to your paywall resolutions (again, like Nextcloud) would be a problem as well. Stay away from that type of model and I would no problem TDF offering paid support.
31 • LibreOffice (by Dan on 2020-07-20 18:26:48 GMT from Israel)
I don't understand why all of you understood it in this way. It says that the paid version of LO would be optional, and commercialization is different than making the software proprietary. As I understand it, the vote was on whether it's a good idea for TDF to make available a copy of LO identical to the one available at no cost, with standardized/consistent billing (instead of arbitrary choice of sum of money when donating) and commercial support. I usually only use freeware, but I voted "Yes - for personal use" since I know LO is developed for an idealistic goal, and would still be a libre office suite regardless of price.
32 • Libre Office (by user15 on 2020-07-20 18:33:53 GMT from Spain)
I like LIbreoffice (and I have set it to look like MsOffice -with the ribbon and the icon theme-), but despite the fact it has improved over the last years, it is not 100% compatible with MsOffice, and as long it is not 100% with the most popular formats, it not woth paying for it
If you need to edit a MsOffice file without any issues, and you don't want to change your Operating System nor paying for Ms Office, the only way is using Office online, in fact you can create a web app with Chromium to access easily to Office Online from the menu.
33 • @27 (by Corentin on 2020-07-20 19:16:08 GMT from Republic of Moldova)
Sorry, but I confirm what I was saying 25, it does it perfectly, including on Windows. I use it regularly.
34 • LibreOffice (by Rev_Don on 2020-07-20 21:59:12 GMT from United States)
I wonder how many people know the history and foundation of LibreOffice. It started in 1985 as StarWriter and only available as a PAID product. Sun bought them and released a free version for Personal use, but still required a business to purchase it. The free version eventually became OpenOffice and was forked into LibreOffice. So LibreOffice is essentially wanting to return to it's roots.
35 • LibreOffice (by M.Z. on 2020-07-20 23:04:34 GMT from United States)
I used LibreOffice throughout my college years & had no trouble a tall with simply exporting my documents to .pdf files 99% of the time. It also pumps out excellent resumes doing the same export method & was what I sent to get my current job. My problems have been very few & far between, though I suppose other may have issues related to needing to share documents far more often than I do, which has largely been uneventful most of the time I've had to do it.
I would be happy to do more to support LibreOffice, it just depends a bit on the model. It does seem as though the document foundation needs some better form of business plan that keeps some reliable revenue coming in, while also respecting home users & encouraging them to give what they can in a way that creates effective support. That being said tearing them down the way some here have seems not only counter productive, but also deeply misleading.
LibreOffice is a very solid product in me experience, and is only need of a better direction to fix internal problems.
36 • Rich text vs. plain text, WYSIWYG (by msi on 2020-07-20 23:26:35 GMT from Germany)
@8:
"In my opinion, the world would be better off if people used unpretentious plain text, or learned to compile their work from plain text in to .pdf, than to continue monkeying with these ever-growing WYSIWYG menaces."
Rich text and WYSIWYG are actually good things for "word processing."
The problem with "unpretentious plain text" is that it relies on hacks (in the form of additional characters) for fake formatting because, well, there are no actual formatting options. It's plain text. And those hacks are ugly and hurt readability because they introduce noise. Just compare _word_ and *word* for emphasis to italics and bold text.
Now, I could, of course, use some form of markup language. That might make the result of my writing look pretty, but it doesn't help me in the writing process – quite on the contrary. I don't want to write markup, or look at markup, i.e.: code, when I write an essay. That's just plain distracting. I want to look at rich text and be able to format and manage it as easily as possible so I can focus on the content of my work.
For example, I make extensive use of footnotes, comments, and color whenever I write longer, non-trivial texts. And using a WYSIWYG word processor is, as far as I'm concerned, the only sane "framework" (for want of a better word) for working that way.
37 • LibreOffice (by Newby on 2020-07-21 01:15:26 GMT from Canada)
For those who just need a basic linux word processor for personal use, and without the "bloat", check out "focuswriter" from https://gottcode.org/focuswriter.
Nice small package that focuses on doing one thing and doing it well.
At least you know any donations going to the author will be directly useful for maintaining the program, and not lost in some huge organization.
PLUS, it not only supports txt and rtf, but also odt formats.
This does bring up an interesting problem. The odt format is now a recognized "standard" format. As such, any program supporting the format should (presumably?) be able to exchange documents without loosing "formattng".
Supposedly then, the formatting problem lies more with the Microsoft docx format, and evolving changes with that. If it keeps changing, is it correct to be calling that format a "standard"?
It was actually Microsoft that released the rtf format. Being a "standard" format coming directly from Microsoft, you would expect some sort of consistency within their own range of products (rtf and docx), to be able to maintain formatting.
I am obviously not a programmer, but perhaps comments from @25 and @36 above, may provide some insight about the problem migrating data across different formats?
Aside from Focuswriter, there is also a nice program called Ted. It does not appear to support odt, but does support rtf and pdf.
For anyone interested, there was an older compact office suite called siag.
Personally, really liked WordPerfect 6.1 for DOS, and Quark Express 3.3. Sort of makes you wonder how much we've actually progressed over the years.
38 • @29, Linux Lite (by Iamgroot on 2020-07-21 04:13:48 GMT from United States)
I wish people would at least try something before disparaging it. I installed Mate on Linux Lite, just for the hell of it. Here are the steps:
sudo tasksel install ubuntu-mate-desktop
password
Enter
Wait for it to finish
Reboot and choose mate at login.
Same applies to other desktop environments available in Ubuntu repos. So unless you can just wish a desktop installed in MX and it just happens, how is it easier?
As earlier, I would advise anyone desiring a particular desktop to choose a distro where it is installed by default. Avoids duplication, menu and other clutter, and extra configuration.
39 • libreoffice (by unixoid on 2020-07-21 05:16:46 GMT from Tajikistan)
@25
Softmaker or the free textmaker is OK . It was about three years ago that someone sent me a complex .ppt presentation in MSoffice format. I didn't have
Moffice, on my computer and OnlyOffice was not released at that time
So I tried opening it with libreoffice, softmaker and WPS the office suite from Deepin linux., The only one that could open it correctly was WPS
As a teacher, we get stuff like this with complex formats and weird macros in MSoffice format all the time and we don't have time to muck around. If LO cant deal with this stuff it is useless in a business environment.. Might be fun to see
if comparability has improved though.
@37
I also miss the speed and responsiveness of WP.- too bad they never got around to making it Unicode compliant. However it does run OK in linux DOSbox.
40 • Nothing has changed--eleven years later, and still waiting... (by R. Cain on 2020-07-21 05:40:09 GMT from United States)
“LibreOffice 6.3 - Waiting For A Miracle"
https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/libreoffice-6-3-review.html
“...LibreOffice 6.3 is a powerful, rich office suite...But it is not enough. Simply isn't. Functionality is what matters, and if the program cannot satisfy the necessary needs, it's not really useful...you still don't get what you require.
And in this regard, LibreOffice 6.3 doesn't quite cut it...working with Office files is pretty much a no-go, the style management is inefficient, and the UI layouts are somewhat clunky...the momentum has slowed, and the great, amazing hope that was there when LibreOffice was born is just a thing of mildly apathetic momentum now. True, this ailment grips the entire open-source world, and Linux in particular, but it doesn't change the fact that the hope is slowly dwindling. All in all... a solution to all office problems, LibreOffice 6.3 ain't.”
41 • pay for libreoffice...? (by sweaty on 2020-07-21 09:03:54 GMT from Canada)
I dropped libreoffice for openoffice due to the bloat; even if the distro I install comes with libreoffice it gets replaced with openoffice...and I dont donate to openoffice either!
42 • @37 FocusWriter (by OstroL on 2020-07-21 09:29:56 GMT from Poland)
Thanks for the link to FocusWriter. It is created by the same person, who created the very useful WhiskerMenu.
43 • LibreOffice poll (by Pete on 2020-07-21 10:47:09 GMT from Poland)
I voted Yes - for personal use.
LibreOffice is fine, in some areas better than MS Office. One thing almost everyone is complaining about is compatibility with MS formats. Well, it is a different program with it's own formats, not a replacement for MS Office.
@35 I agree 100%
44 • LibreOffice compatibility again. (by fox on 2020-07-21 12:09:14 GMT from Canada)
My experience with MS Office alternatives was similar to that of @25, except that which of the three (LO, TextMaker, WPS) rendered an Office document most faithfully depended on the document. For simple, straight text documents, all three generally rendered them correctly, but add line numbering, tables and figures and this changes. LO never rendered documents with line numbering correctly; it always smooshed the numbers right against the text without any space between them. Vertical spacing was often a problem; a page in MS Office might have one less line in one or more of the others. For most people these are no big deal but for me, collaborating with other people and sending the document back and forth, this is a no-go. LO generally did as good or better with figures than the other two. But for most peoples' needs, either of the three would suffice.
45 • Libre Office (by dragonmouth on 2020-07-21 12:25:37 GMT from United States)
One, simple native Linux word processor nobody has mentioned is Abiword. It may not be a replacement for Word but for simple tasks it suffices.
The problem with Free and a Premium versions of LO is that slowly but surely the Free version will be eviscerated and emasculated by removing features in order to "encourage" users to move up to the Premium version. Eventually, Free version of LO will become something akin to KWrite and virtually useless.
46 • making libreoffice great again (by fonz on 2020-07-21 13:53:11 GMT from Indonesia)
i actually voted for nope. im not picky when it comes to office-ing, just send it via gulag drive/doc/whatev and hope for the best (im an architect btw, my uncles the contractor). with the way things are currently, most of our workers are getting used to the whole IOT (internet of things? seems fishy to me) and sending everything via gulag. hell, we even made a few deals via gulag hangout/chat/talk(?) as well. ironically im trying to avoid gulag in general, but yeah -_-
i do hope libreoffice does succeed, because a long time ago i heard about libreoffice online, guess its probably deadish now.
good news for those wanting to try opensuse, but wanting an easier time setting things out (media codecs, drivers ETC). geckolinux was recently revived. id recommend the static editions since tumbleweed was a hit and miss for me. debian sid and arch never gave me kernel panics before, but tumbleweed gave me 1 at least once a year.
47 • LibreOffice poll (by Alex on 2020-07-21 14:01:37 GMT from United States)
The current crop of commercial LibreOffice/LibreOffice Online offerings (e.g. Collabora, CIB, Kopano, IceWarp) seem primarily targeted at enterprises, small companies, and institutions. Most home users don't need that level of support (if any) or a "Still" version. Like RHEL or SLE, home users aren't really their target market, so I voted no. I wouldn't be opposed to donating to The Document Foundation, but I don't use LibreOffice. I have paid for things like CrossOver (in addition to donations to the Wine Development Fund) and Fluendo Codec Pack (back when Fluendo employed a lot of GStreamer developers).
48 • LibreOffice - vinyl in the era of streaming (by CS on 2020-07-21 15:32:27 GMT from United States)
LibreOffice is always the first thing I uninstall in a new Linux install -- I've got no interest in several multi hundred MB updates per year to something I wouldn't touch. People who say it's better than Office must be thinking of Office 2003, to which LO bears some resemblance.
Google Docs is more than good enough.
Heck even Office 365 sort of works these days.
Are these Libre? Free as in beer? Water? Mountain Dew? You know I can't find enough free time in my day to care, when it comes to this I have to get stuff done and fast.
LO is frozen in carbonite, a holdover from an earlier, darker day of computing before cloud ubiquity. Adding a few more widgets to their antiquated software delivery form factor isn't going to fix anything.
49 • LibreOffice vs OnlyOffice (by James H on 2020-07-21 21:18:47 GMT from New Zealand)
Has anyone tried OnlyOffice? How does it compare to LibreOffice? I'd be interested to hear what others had to say. Especially on compatibility with MS Word etc
50 • Abiword (by hotdiggettydog on 2020-07-21 21:52:56 GMT from Canada)
@45
As I was scrolling through the posts I was wondering why Abiword was not being mentioned, and then yours.
First thing I do is uninstall LO and install Abiword. It works fine for what I need as a home user.
51 • Libreoffice (by Andy Figueroa on 2020-07-21 22:11:57 GMT from United States)
I voted no, even though I use Libreoffice extensively in cross collaboration with Windows Microsoft Office users and except with regard to Power Point or those using Word to pull off a desktop publishing experience no formatting or compatibility issues. I have used Libreoffice since about 2000 when I first installed StarOffice from a German company when they made it free. Until Libreoffice, I used OpenOffice. I do deploy Libreoffice as the only office program at a small school, and they have used it happily under Linux since 2006. I'm amazed at the number of Libreoffice haters who have posted here.
52 • Libreoffice (by Andy Figueroa on 2020-07-21 22:16:29 GMT from United States)
Act 2. What I meant to write was that selling support is NOT the same thing as having commercial branch of LibreOffice. Selling support is a tried and true way for open source projects to raise money.
53 • Abiword and collaborative work. (by Friar Tux on 2020-07-21 23:39:35 GMT from Canada)
@45+@50 Regarding Abiword. I used to use Abiword, a while back, as it reminded me of an old Windows program I loved to use - the Atlantis word processor. Anyway, as of a couple of years ago, Abiword started acting up to the point that I had to drop it. The main issue, for me, was that the GUI appeared all scrunched up to the left, with a lot of the text overlapping the icons. Weird, to say the least. Also, I could not get rid of that stark, bright white background.
As for collaboration work with others on the same document, a few years back I was working with someone in Winnipeg (I'm in Regina) on a MSWord document. I can't remember the format but we collaborated through Google Drive and Docs and it all worked quite beautifully. When we were done we simply downloaded the final result - me to LibreOffice, my co-worker to MSOffice.
Also, I always set any word processor I use to save only in the RTF format as ALL word processors seem to be able to handle that without issue. I learned this early in my writing career. (This works especially well if you don't know the format the receiving program uses.)
54 • I chose "no" (by Andrew on 2020-07-22 04:06:59 GMT from Japan)
I think LibreOffice is great software for its intended function, but generally after a fresh Linux install it is software that I delete and replace with Abiword.
For the purposes of my system use, a full productivity suite such as LibreOffice is overkill and I just prefer a simple word processor instead.
55 • Paying for LibreOffice (by TheTKS on 2020-07-22 16:10:43 GMT from Canada)
I voted no to paying for LibreOffice, because while not necessarily against the idea, the poll doesn't make clear exactly what I would be asked to pay for. An interesting poll, but that's just a limitation of polls - they have to be brief.
I have supported through donations, because my wife and I get value out of LO for personal use. In fact, the suite (mostly Writer and Calc) is one of my most used applications.
I would like LO to stay available. Now, I'm not sure what those donations have been for, and I would like to hear that some of the money will start to go to developers, otherwise I will have to reconsider donating to the project.
TKS
56 • Compatibility of office suites (by TheTKS on 2020-07-22 16:15:32 GMT from Canada)
Compatibility of LO with MS Word (and others in the suite) is getting a lot of negative comments. It's not perfect, but good enough for my personal use. I haven't and wouldn't try it for work, since I'm at a dedicated MS shop.
But compatibility of MS Office with MS Office isn't perfect, either. Some old .doc files open up a mess in newer Office. I've tried in Office as old as 2010 or 2013 through up to date Office365. Excel has been even messier, to the point of some spreadsheets being non-functional for some users, both internal and customers.
There was a guy generating compatibility tables LO Writer version to MS Word version. He claimed very high compatibility between the corresponding versions on his list, increasingly worse as you moved away from those. I don't have the link handy, don't know if he still does this and publishes, but if anyone is interested I can try to find it. Otherwise, Google it if you want to try it.
TKS
57 • Light but capable, low-distraction word processors on Linux and Windows (by TheTKS on 2020-07-22 16:46:08 GMT from Canada)
At home on Linux and OpenBSD I use LO, Kate or Mousepad, depending on the need.
At work I only get to use Windows. I was looking for a single application lighter, faster and less distracting than MS Word, FLOSS if available, that could do this:
- Personal meeting note taking, end of day activity reports... light word processing
- A bit of formatting capability, inlcuding hypertext
- Configurable as I like it, more or less
- Minimize distraction
- Save in a common file format, preferably rtf, but doc would be ok
WordPad was closest stock application, but I found I have to fight it in some cases. Notepad is missing some capability. OneNote is a confusing jumble, slow to start, too feature rich, and I had to fight it even more than WordPad.
There were some good suggestions in earlier comments. I've installed FocusWriter, which looks the closest, along with a few others.
Too bad none quite does it. WordPad wins, or maybe loses the least badly.
Back to alternative word processors and compatibility for a bit.
Abiword I've found good as a standalone and lighter word processor, but compatibility with MS Word not as good as LO. There's no longer a supported Windows version, so I couldn't install it at work.
Calligra Words is another word processor not mentioned in earlier comments. Same comments as for Abiword. But it works differently enough from MS Word and LO Writer that I didn't want to have to get used to yet another set of actions to use it on Linux, and there's no Windows version.
TKS
58 • Libreoffice is essential (by Matt on 2020-07-22 20:01:01 GMT from United States)
For a lot of people, there is no getting around working with MS office files, and nothing beats Libreoffice for import/export conversion of these files. I have used it since the Staroffice days, and I donate to the Opendocument Foundation. Linux on the desktop would not be a viable alternative for many people without Libreoffice.
Libreoffice is bloated, but nothing beats it on Linux. Writing is a big part of my job. I use LaTex for a lot of publications. When a LaTex upgrade is pushed out, I have to download and install about 2 gigabytes of software. Even though LaTex is a text-based format, it is far more bloated than Libreoffice.
The future is probably some type of open source markup language that will handle complex formatting and make documents portable and intepretable by a number of different applications. I have used ReText for creating ReStructuredText documents, which is close to what I think the future will be. However, ReText won't help me when someone emails me some crappy docx file that I have to open and edit.
59 • Libre Office (by GWJMateo on 2020-07-23 04:36:47 GMT from United States)
All this discussion around Libre Office misses the fact that Google Docs, ZoHo, Pages/Numbers/Keynote and MS Office (a version of it at least) are all available via any Browser.
I don't currently have any Office Suite installed on either my Windows or Linux machines because other than the rare instance I need to modify a macro, there's simply no need to install one. The Browser versions work just fine, and the compatibility is better than Libre Office.
The whole "Office Suite" model is a relic of a prior age and has no place in the OS-less world we are increasingly living in.
60 • @59 "no place" (by curious on 2020-07-23 08:35:17 GMT from Germany)
So, because you embrace the always online, cloud based way of doing things, everyone has to follow that? I think not.
Some kind of Office software that works offline has its uses - except for those who always follow the newest fads.
Its fine if you have a certain way of doing things and like your work to be owned by some cloud entity. But I resent the attitude that everyone has to follow these models.
61 • Installed office applications as relic of a prior age (by TheTKS on 2020-07-23 15:03:12 GMT from Canada)
@59 if that's the way you want to and can operate, then be happy with that, although you should think about what @60 wrote.
To believe that everyone can and should operate that way shows an application of arrogance, stupidity and lack of imagination.
Take a few moments to think about what use cases there might be other than yours. Someone smart enough to write what you did, is smart enough to get out of themselves for long enough to come up with a few ideas. If you still can't mange to do that, Google it.
TKS
62 • Not-so-"Libre"-Office (by Sam on 2020-07-23 15:55:22 GMT from United States)
1. I've heard elsewhere that the majority of donations made to "support" LibreOffice actually end up in the coffers of the foundation that "supports" LibreOffice - with almost all development contributed by developers who work for other companies. So where would a "paid" revenue stream end up? Will the foundation use some of the money to hire some poorly-paid call center workers in Mumbai?
2. LibreOffice is a jumbled mess of bloat and a UI that takes a reasonably competent user hours to reconfigure in a way that is usable. Softmaker and other "Free" office suites have long ago figured out how to present a streamlined UI. I guess I'm saying I don't see the paid-for-value in a cruft-filled and clunky office suite.
3. MS Office compatibility - would this new revenue stream help LibreOffice at least not screw up the fonts and formatting of MS Office documents? I understand the challenges of , say, getting VBA-coded scripts in Excel sheets to play nicely with an opensource office suite, but in the year 2020 I should simply be able to open a .doc or .docx file and not have all the fonts turn to crap, and in the year 2020 I should not have an option to save a document in LibreOffice in .docx format only for whoever I send that document to open it up and see crap formatting.
63 • LibreOffice Size (by vern on 2020-07-23 16:35:21 GMT from United States)
I was curious about how much size LO uses. I ran this from my Kubuntu:
$ dpkg-query --show --showformat='${Installed-Size}\t${Package}\n' | sort -rh | head -25 | awk '{print $1/1024, $2}'
...
>> 122.267 libreoffice-core
...
>> 53.8262 libreoffice-common
...
>> 37.4385 libreoffice-writer
...
As you can see, it takes up over 200 MB of space. Google Drive here I come.
64 • LibreOffice (by Jesse on 2020-07-23 17:00:43 GMT from Canada)
@62: I think you may be misinformed about LibreOffice and how The Document Foundation operates, and LibreOffice's features.
1. Rather than following baseless rumours, why not read the Foundation's accounting pages which outline their spending? Theyre completely transparent about their income and expenses: https://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/financials/
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Ledgers
2. I disagree with your view on the interface. I find LibreOffice' user interface to be much more consistent and easier to use than most other suits. I much prefer it to MS-Office, Calligra, or WPS, mostly because I find it so easy to navigate.
3. I've been running Star/Open/LibreOffice for nearly 20 years. In that time I've run into two, maybe three documents that had trouble with MS-Office compatibility. That is about a tenth of the number of times I've run into compatibility issues between versions of MS-Office. In fact, I used to use OpenOffice to repair corrupted MS-Office documents when they had issues between versions. If you're seeing font issues it's more likely an issue with the fonts installed on the system, not an issue with reading the document format.
65 • @62 Sam: (by dragonmouth on 2020-07-23 21:20:25 GMT from United States)
"2. LibreOffice is a jumbled mess of bloat and a UI that takes a reasonably competent user hours to reconfigure in a way that is usable."
Thank you for the implied complement. I guess I must be a genius, I found the LO UI usable out of the box. If by "streamlined UI" you mean looking and working like MS Office, then that is your personal opinion. I prefer the LO UI to MS's by far, but that's just me.
66 • @49 • LibreOffice vs OnlyOffice and @63 • LibreOffice Size (by Rev_Don on 2020-07-23 21:30:59 GMT from United States)
OpenOffice used to be the defacto standard Open Source office suite until development and maintenance stalled out several years ago causing it to have numerous security issues. That's when LibreOffice stepped in and forked it to bring it back up to date security wise. To date openoffice is a pale remnant of what it used to be even after Apache finally got off their butts and started maintaining it again. While there are some people who prefer it over LibreOffice, anyone who needs more than simple documents will quickly find themselves disenchanted with how poor OO is today.
As for 63 • LibreOffice Size stating that LO takes up 200 megs of space on their hard drive. Sorry, but 200 megs out of 8 terrabytes is insignificant. I wouldn't even notice that. If you have to worry about 200 megs of hard drive space you have bigger issues that need to be attended to.
67 • Re: vinyl in the era of streaming (by msi on 2020-07-23 23:21:29 GMT from Germany)
@48:
I.
"LO is frozen in carbonite, a holdover from an earlier, darker day of computing before cloud ubiquity."
Mind you, "cloud ubiquity" plays a considerable role in making present-day computing "dark". Only thinking for a second about how the distribution model of "software as a service in the always-on Internet" compares to a mid-2000s Linux desktop in terms of users being able to have a say in how they (don't) want to do their computing is mind-boggling.
The usual counter-argument to that – with a Linux desktop back then you weren't able to do all those things we're able to do now – is flawed in two ways:
1. The argument against "cloud ubiquity" (which is an illusion, by the way) is not one about features. It's about the social cost of a computing model: near-total loss of users' control over how things are run on their personal machines(!). And it doesn't stop there.
2. The features "cloud ubiquity" offers are simply implied as universally good or "have-to-have".
II.
"LibreOffice - vinyl in the era of streaming"
So, what you're suggesting then, in terms of vinyl vs. streaming is, basically, that now that we have (the illusion of) the questionable opportunity to listen to any music anytime and anywhere as long as we opt in to the surveillance-capitalist way of running things, there's really no place for a way of consuming music that doesn't require that. Well, I really think there is.
II.
"Google Docs is more than good enough.
Heck even Office 365 sort of works these days.
Are these Libre? Free as in beer? Water? Mountain Dew? You know I can't find enough free time in my day to care, when it comes to this I have to get stuff done and fast."
And that is, of course, first and foremost an argument against a certain piece of free software that doesn't suit your particular need, and not, maybe, against how your boss runs things or, more generally speaking, the way things work "in the marketplace".
68 • Paying for LibreOffice (by Name Required on 2020-07-24 01:45:36 GMT from United States)
I voted no, mostly because I rarely come across a case where I need the LO. I rarely get sent .doc files anymore and switched to writing in LaTeX or (more commonly) groff years ago for the documents I produce myself, making Writer effectively worthless to me. Present is also not something I really use, and any presentations I need to make (pretty rare) I just do in beamer. The only LibreOffice Application I use that often is Calc, and I'd like to get away from it in favor of sc-im or something. It's not that Calc is inherently bad, but it feels bloated compared to how I usually operate. I'm thankful to LibreOffice for getting me through university, but I no longer really have a use for most of it.
69 • @64 (by Akoi on 2020-07-24 06:42:35 GMT from United States)
"I've been running Star/Open/LibreOffice for nearly 20 years. In that time I've run into two, maybe three documents that had trouble with MS-Office compatibility."
Well, there might have been not much MS documents overall for those 20 years. :)
70 • @8 +1 for using plain test (by Andreas on 2020-07-24 12:09:28 GMT from Austria)
@8 : Agreed. People should use plain text wherever feasible, and use "more" than that where strictly necessary. Markdown, restructuredtext, asciidoc (and the likes) are more than enough for a significant number of cases. You can convert most if not all of them to pdf, and once you have pandoc, you have more than enough conversion power.
Kids should learn basic markdown (and basic html) in school, converting markdown documents to pdf or odt, then the curious ones could learn the more advanced markup languages like asciidoc. It would be way more useful than learning any kind of "office suite" -- not just in itself, but because it positively affects your viewpoint and thinking.
71 • Linux Lite (by Joseph on 2020-07-24 13:25:58 GMT from Canada)
Used to use Linux Lite for a few years (I think it was version 4). Unlike with other distros, I couldn't get the Terminal launcher (the .desktop file) to launch the terminal with the desired geometry, even though the *exact same* method worked in several other distributions. (I checked multiple times, and the command I tried to use was correct.) There was a post reporting that particular issue on Linux Lite forums. Followed it for like half a year, it didn't get a single response. It wasn't easy to leave Linux Lite behind after that.
72 • Cloud stuff (by Cheker on 2020-07-24 14:04:14 GMT from Portugal)
Reminder that you don't own anything that's in the cloud and you have zero control over it.
73 • LIbreOffice (by Name Required on 2020-07-25 02:33:38 GMT from United States)
@72
I always like to tell people that the cloud doesn't exist. It's just someone else's computer. I am required to use Google drive for my job, but that is where it ends for me.
@70
I really wish I had learned something more useful than an office suite in school. It would have made things a lot easier when I finally ran into a wall and basically HAD to learn something else (in my case, LaTeX) just to get anything done. If you've ever tried to write a document longer than about 100 pages in any office suite with multiple pictures and diagrams, you know exactly what I mean. That being said, so many jobs require familiarity with Office that it becomes an chicken and egg problem. If schools don't teach Office, kids won't be ready for the work force, but if they do learn Office, nobody is willing to change.
74 • @73: (by dragonmouth on 2020-07-25 13:57:44 GMT from United States)
"I really wish I had learned something more useful than an office suite in school. "
How would you have known exactly what would be useful to you in the future? Hindsight is always 20/20.
"If schools don't teach Office"
If schools don't teach HTML, Java, or hundreds of other subjects, kids won't be ready for the work force. How does a school or a kid know what skills (s)he will need in real life? With people changing jobs every couple of years, they can't be relying on what they learned in school. They need to be able to learn new skills on the fly.
75 • If only … school … (by Somewhat Reticent on 2020-07-25 16:18:05 GMT from United States)
By using several spreadsheet apps, a school can teach the difference between the task and the tool - a valuable lesson.
…
A more valuable thing to teach is all ways to learn, and how each works for you.
76 • Schools (by Name Required on 2020-07-25 20:56:19 GMT from United States)
@74
I'm not implying that I should have known it to be useful. That wasn't the point of my post at all. The difference between Office and programming languages is that the former is in use in a much greater share of jobs. That's why the incentives lean more towards that side. Obviously programming classes should be (and are often) offered, but it is no where near on the same level of necessity. Of course students need to be able to learn on the fly, but they also need basic skills that they can use as something to build on. If you have nothing to compare a new skill to, it becomes much harder to adapt and learn. The point of learning something like Office is that when you have a new job and have to adapt to a great number of things, you can still at least have something you are fairly competent with, which can help with confidence and ultimately adapting and learning.
@75
This is more something I can agree with because you want to be able to generalize skills beyond a specific context. This makes what you learn in school more relevant, addressing the "Office problem." The problem with this solution has more to do with considerations of time and technical knowledge of the teacher in charge, who has probably also spent all of his or her life using Office. It really comes down to pushing for more technology training for teachers, which then turns into a question of money, which means nothing ever gets done.
77 • Learning Office in schools (by Friar Tux on 2020-07-25 23:43:37 GMT from Canada)
Schools taught what was, at the time, most used because of, as comment 76 said, money. Also, schools only gave a cursory course, to interest the student. I remember, way back in school, we had 'drivers ed'. EVERYBODY took drivers' ed. Yet, only a limited few actually took auto mechanics. By the same token, EVERYONE was taught 'word processing' but very few took coding (modern word, it was called 'computer programming, then). If my grandson isn't pulling my leg, he tells me that, today, they teach you how to learn to use an interface - not a specific GUI.
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| • Issue 1056 (2024-02-05): wattOS R13, the various write speeds of ISO writing tools, DSL returns, Mint faces Wayland challenges, HardenedBSD blocks foreign USB devices, Gentoo publishes new repository, Linux distros patch glibc flaw |
| • Issue 1055 (2024-01-29): CNIX OS 231204, distributions patching packages the most, Gentoo team presents ongoing work, UBports introduces connectivity and battery improvements, interview with Haiku developer |
| • Issue 1054 (2024-01-22): Solus 4.5, comparing dd and cp when writing ISO files, openSUSE plans new major Leap version, XeroLinux shutting down, HardenedBSD changes its build schedule |
| • Issue 1053 (2024-01-15): Linux AI voice assistants, some distributions running hotter than others, UBports talks about coming changes, Qubes certifies StarBook laptops, Asahi Linux improves energy savings |
| • Issue 1052 (2024-01-08): OpenMandriva Lx 5.0, keeping shell commands running when theterminal closes, Mint upgrades Edge kernel, Vanilla OS plans big changes, Canonical working to make Snap more cross-platform |
| • Issue 1051 (2024-01-01): Favourite distros of 2023, reloading shell settings, Asahi Linux releases Fedora remix, Gentoo offers binary packages, openSUSE provides full disk encryption |
| • Issue 1050 (2023-12-18): rlxos 2023.11, renaming files and opening terminal windows in specific directories, TrueNAS publishes ZFS fixes, Debian publishes delayed install media, Haiku polishes desktop experience |
| • Issue 1049 (2023-12-11): Lernstick 12, alternatives to WINE, openSUSE updates its branding, Mint unveils new features, Lubuntu team plans for 24.04 |
| • Issue 1048 (2023-12-04): openSUSE MicroOS, the transition from X11 to Wayland, Red Hat phasing out X11 packages, UBports making mobile development easier |
| • Issue 1047 (2023-11-27): GhostBSD 23.10.1, Why Linux uses swap when memory is free, Ubuntu Budgie may benefit from Wayland work in Xfce, early issues with FreeBSD 14.0 |
| • Issue 1046 (2023-11-20): Slackel 7.7 "Openbox", restricting CPU usage, Haiku improves font handling and software centre performance, Canonical launches MicroCloud |
| • Full list of all issues |
| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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| Random Distribution | 
Resala Linux
Resala Linux Project was a single-CD distribution based on Fedora Core. The main objective was to: (a) create an Arabic-ready distribution to make it easy for computer users to use Linux in the Arabic-speaking countries, and (b) to open the door for all developers to contribute to a regional distribution. Resala Project was supported by Linux-Egypt.org where it will be maintained as a standalone project to allow contributions from everywhere and by everyone who can contribute.
Status: Discontinued
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| TUXEDO |
TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite
Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
Learn more about our full service package and all benefits from buying at TUXEDO.
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| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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