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1 • Warpinator (by brad on 2020-07-06 00:29:31 GMT from United States)
Well, at least I got a better explanation of Warpinator here than from the LM developers - seems as though you need two computers, both running Warpinator, in order for files to be shared.
Excuse my ignorance, but how is this very much different from client/server models? Sure, it's "easier to set up", but I'm disappointed - Clem and crew made it seem like magic!
: - )
2 • Re Zenwalk (by Newby on 2020-07-06 00:40:22 GMT from Canada)
For anyone attempting to download the Zenwalk iso, note the following:
The header on this page mentions 15.0-200701
The release announcement on this page links to 150-milestone-2020-07-02
The latest, and probably the one you actually want at this date is 2020-07-03
By the time you read this, it could change again, but Zenwalk tends to be one of the more stable distros, and chances are that last one should be relevant for a little while.
Anyway, check the available releases before downloading.
For anyone considering looking at this, Zenwalk is based on Slackware, but focuses on the desktop.
Package selections have tended to be conservative and useful, rather than bleeding edge, and throwing in the kitchen sink. For anyone wanting a stable general-purpose desktop to just get some work done, this is a good choice.
Other Slack based distros would include Salix and Absolute.
Slackel might be Slackware based (haven't tried that one).
Think Vector might have been slack based at one point; might be "dormant" now?
3 • Re: Slackware-based distros (by eco2geek on 2020-07-06 01:07:30 GMT from United States)
@2 - Vector was _always_ based on Slackware AFAIK. Yes, it's dormant. The last release was in August, 2017.
Yes, Slackel is Slackware-based.
(See that "Type Distribution Name" box at the top of the page? Typing "Vector" and "Slackel" in there and pressing "Go" will give you this information - and more - about those distros. It's very handy when researching Linux distros.)
4 • encrypted home (by MikeOh Shark on 2020-07-06 01:17:39 GMT from Germany)
I have a laptop and it is portable, hence the simple precaution of encrypting it.
I am curious what other laptop users do if they don't encrypt /home at minimum.
5 • encryption (by vern on 2020-07-06 01:20:41 GMT from United States)
I do not use storage encryption, nor will I ever, hopefully. When systemd-home comes around, I hope I can avoid its encryption of home.
Jesse's experience of encryption and Debian's inexcusable reason for dropping it. They should have known people would be still using it. What if those folks didn't have the expertise as Jesse has.
6 • Encryption for sensitive information only, not for whole partition or whole disk (by LiuYan on 2020-07-06 02:07:25 GMT from China)
I actually DO use whole partition/disk encryption, but not on a real disk.
I created a normal file, then treat this file a whole disk, and build an encrypted file system on it. Currently I use LUKS encryption.
7 • Encryption? No No No (by dhoni on 2020-07-06 02:28:13 GMT from Indonesia)
As i distro hopping alot on linux, encryption is pain in the A55....
8 • Encryption (by DaveW on 2020-07-06 02:37:37 GMT from United States)
I created a partition for my sensitive information, and encrypted that partition with VeraCrypt. Made a backup by copying the partition. Keep the backup current by mounting both partitions, then sync with rsync. Works for me.
9 • Mint 20 Encrypted /home (by shaky on 2020-07-06 02:46:03 GMT from Canada)
“but may not unmount properly when logging out of the system due to a regression between the ecryptfs software and systemd.”
Once again systemd causing more issues than it is worth. What a joke. Hope after doing away with snap they will ditch systemd next!
10 • I must have a prodigious quantity of mind; it takes me as much as a week... (by Welch B on 2020-07-06 03:06:17 GMT from France)
Here: Dual-booting Qubes and Debian Sid with Encrypted SSD
I followed: https://micahflee.com/2014/04/dual-booting-qubes-and-ubuntu-with-encrypted-disks/
11 • Encryption (by TheTKS on 2020-07-06 03:18:39 GMT from Canada)
Voted whole disk encryption, but in fact I do that with some of my installed OSs and no encryption with others.
I have also used file vaults.
Veracrypt sounds like something I should look into, as I have been thinking about encrypting other installed OS /home or at least data partitions.
TKS
12 • encfs for encryption (by tsultana on 2020-07-06 03:48:33 GMT from United States)
I still use encfs fuse encryption with paranoia settings on my important folder. With Sirikali as the UI it is convenient and only open when I need it.
13 • Timeshift (by Julian on 2020-07-06 05:36:40 GMT from Greece)
"given that Btrfs is needed to take full advantage of the Timeshift tool"
I use Timeshift with a standard ext4 partition and everything works fine. I do not see any need for Btrfs.
14 • Subject (mandatory) (by Name (mandatory) on 2020-07-06 06:30:23 GMT from United States)
OnionShare is superior to Warpinator.
15 • onionshare (by manda tory on 2020-07-06 06:43:07 GMT from New Zealand)
@14 - onionshare seems like a military grade solution designed for global networking, where warpinator is within your home wifi/LAN.
I had set up some testing when Mint 20 beta arrived and was quite impressed. Of course for now its limited to Mint to Mint. Something like the Arches (Manjaro) may have it in the AUR - I have not checked. Warpinator (for simplicity and security) only works locally, to the extent that with my home wifi, which is split into two IDs, Warpinator will work on only one leg, not even acroos the two. In many ways i really like this as the chances of it getting hijacked from outside are practically nil. Unlike a global open tool running on an agency intereset attracting platform like onion nodes... called onionshare.
Onionshare certainly has its place as the intro story on their website describes.
My 10c, YMMV.
16 • warpinator (by peer on 2020-07-06 08:26:53 GMT from Netherlands)
I use ssh for transferring files from pc to pc/smartphone on my network.
Why shouldI use warpinator???
17 • @15 - Warpinator for Arch (Manjaro) (by brad on 2020-07-06 09:38:01 GMT from United States)
Looked for it in Manjaro and AUR - not there (yet?)
Still, for home use, I find a USB key and SneakerNet suffices...
18 • Re Zenwalk (by Hyperion on 2020-07-06 09:49:57 GMT from France)
@2 : indeed there have been some confusion with ISO images, sorry for that : the milestone release is the "3a". Download URLs have been fixed on Distrowatch (thanks Jesse), and a new torrent has been posted on https://linuxtracker.org (fcadf507f53372fe2ce24c44934dda3f6dbae2d1)
19 • disk encryption (by Arnheld on 2020-07-06 10:16:57 GMT from Poland)
Nearly full-disk encryption (excluding /boot), including swap. (LVM on LUKS).
+ Tomb (https://www.dyne.org/software/tomb/) for other secure stuff.
20 • Disk encryption (by Francesco Turco on 2020-07-06 10:53:14 GMT from Italy)
I encrypt all partitions on my disks with LUKS.
The only exception is the /boot partition.
21 • Encrypted Home Directory (by Tony C on 2020-07-06 11:09:51 GMT from Australia)
I changed from Open Suse to Mint some months ago because I couldn't update Open Suse beyond version 42 without doing away with my encrypted home directory. The capability of an encrypted home directory was the prime consideration when I came to selecting another distro and its easy to do with Mint.
22 • snaps and flatpaks (by auctex on 2020-07-06 12:41:45 GMT from Spain)
I really don't get why praising flatpaks and demonizing snaps and everything from Canonical, for that matter. I also don't get why mint is biting the hand that feeds them. I don't understand the reference in the review to people not wanting to install snaps, I would find that hard to believe. If anything, the amount of available software in the Ubuntu store is something great, and it's great that Canonical makes it available in all major distributions. I think this is all about the big guy, Red Hat, bullying the small guy, Canonical.
23 • encryption of storage (by Otis on 2020-07-06 13:30:44 GMT from United States)
Tried once for the heck of it. As a choice during install of a distro the name of which I have long forgotten. Something bad happened. I don't know what but I do remember using a disc with another distro on it to walk away from the bad one and never looked back.
No need for much secrecy here; I don't use my computer to bank or buy or look at illegal things, so as far as I'm concerned anybody who wants to see my files is welcome. Don't argue with me, I'm happy being open and free with my computer and not doing stupid things to attract scammers or perverts or whatever.
24 • Timeshift (by Jesse on 2020-07-06 14:01:53 GMT from Canada)
>> "given that Btrfs is needed to take full advantage of the Timeshift tool"
>> "I use Timeshift with a standard ext4 partition and everything works fine. I do not see any need for Btrfs."
If you're using ext4 with Timeshift then you're not getting snapshots, you're using rsync to make copies of data. This is incredibly slow and cumbersome. It also means you are using at least twice as much disk space.
With Btrfs snapshots happen instantly, you can store dozens of snapshots while using hardly any disk space, and your snapshots can span multiple storage volumes.
25 • Timeshift w/ rsync (by Ankleface Wroughlandmire on 2020-07-06 14:04:54 GMT from Ecuador)
Doesn't Timeshift w/ rsync still dedupe the files in the snapshots?
26 • Timeshift (by Jesse on 2020-07-06 14:24:12 GMT from Canada)
>> "Doesn't Timeshift w/ rsync still dedupe the files in the snapshots?"
Not exactly. Timeshift shares common files between multiple rsync snapshots using hard links, but that only helps when you have multiple snapshots. You'll still end up using at least double the disk space of your original data to create the first rsync snapshot.
If you were to try using deduplication or hard links on the first snapshot to avoid using as much space then you'd really only have one copy of the file on an ext4 system and any changes to the file could not be restored/reverted.
27 • Snap, Flatpak, and encryption. (by Friar Tux on 2020-07-06 14:26:17 GMT from Canada)
I voted 'No Encryption'. It is fraught with way too many issues. Anyone that wants to steal my laptop will first have to log in. (Good Luck with that.) Also, I don't actually use my laptop for anything 'questionable' so even IF I was at the library and IF I left it on, and IF someone nicked it...
As for the whole Flatpak/Snap kerfuffle, I use AppImage. It has a much smaller footprint and works quite nicely. (Not sure why Flatpak or Snap are even a thing considering AppImage has been around awhile. Must be a Linux thing - have two or three wheels invented, just in case. (Take a peek here for a comparison >> https://linuxhint.com/snap_vs_flatpak_vs_appimage/)
Finally, regarding Warpinator, while I think it's a great idea, it's still too early and primitive. Right now, it's just as easy to use a USB key to transfer files within my home. (Actually, the six laptops in my home all have Bluetooth built in and can find each other quite nicely. Works great for large folder transfers.)
28 • *mind boggles* (by CS on 2020-07-06 14:29:11 GMT from United States)
70% of voters don't encrypt their data? The overhead is barely noticeable on modern hardware so the benefits far outweigh the costs.
29 • encryption? (by Jeff on 2020-07-06 14:38:23 GMT from United States)
This is why I don't bother:
https://xkcd.com/538/
30 • Encryption (by user15 on 2020-07-06 14:43:15 GMT from Spain)
@27. If someone steals or access to your PC, he won't need to log in to access to your files, he will just need a linux live USB and start a llive session. This person will access to all your files.
In my opinion encrypting, at least, your home directory is a must. Specially if you are using a laptop. The only problem (in case you encrypt your home directory) is that it will take a bit longer (a few seconds) to boot your system... That is a fair price to pay in order to keep your info safe.
31 • Home encryption (by Tim on 2020-07-06 14:49:57 GMT from United States)
I do not use encrypted storage. My systems are always at home (very slight pun), so I have no reason to. However, I used to work in the financial industry, and our notebooks were required to use encryption. Mostly, this just caused tons of problems. I only recall one incident over many years where encryption helped - an employee's notebook was stolen in an airport. Possibly, that was worth it for all the problems it caused for users and the support time it took to help them. (Of course, in a financial corporation, most of the users are not especially technically savvy.)
32 • qweborf instead of Warpinator (by Ram on 2020-07-06 14:54:38 GMT from India)
+
Well, for Mint user-base, Warpinator is a good initiative.
For me weborf or it's Qt based interface is ok if using Ubuntu based distro,
for others there are other similar on-demand micro web servers available like python inbuilt web server etc.
It's useful for not only file sharing but also webpage testing in micro scale.
Presently it also support port & interface selection, LAN/WAN restriction, authentication by username-password, SSL, WebDAV, although I haven't tested all of these features yet.
+
33 • @26 (by Ankleface Wroughlandmire on 2020-07-06 15:03:52 GMT from Ecuador)
> You'll still end up using at least double the disk space of your original data to create the first rsync snapshot.
Ah, right, of course. Thanks for the clarification.
34 • saving encryptfs home folder files (by dolphin oracle on 2020-07-06 15:23:35 GMT from United States)
That is a very useful set of instructions for salvaging encyrptfs folders, thanks!
35 • Mint 20 and encryption (by hotdiggettydog on 2020-07-06 15:41:10 GMT from Canada)
Loving Mint 20 cinnamin. Hidpi and fractional scaling work a charm on my high resolution Dell laptop. I have not used Mint for a few years and am quite impressed with this new release.
I use Veracrypt containers for most of my encryption needs. I can store them, move them to other machines, and access them with veracrypt most anywhere. Veracrypt is reliable and trustworthy.
I found Cryptkeeper very handy but abandoned it when found unsafe. Not sure if it was ever fixed.
36 • What's wrong with LM code names? (by MK on 2020-07-06 16:22:35 GMT from Israel)
I don't really care about LM. One reason is, IMHO, a distro with kernel updates is better then without. Another, the code names. Women names. No offense, but why would I ever use something named Ulyana or Tessa or Sonya? Add a few more, like Aisha and Fatma, and it starts to resemble a harem. No, thank you.
It might be a French thing, as every time another Gloria or Barbara is released, I am reminded of the battle of Bien Diem Phu in Northen Vietnam in 1954. The French had strongholds named ... Anne-Marie, Beatrice, Claudine, Dominique, Eliane, Gabrielle, Hugguette and Isabelle. You can look it up and find out what happened.
37 • Swapfiles and BtrFS (by Pikolo on 2020-07-06 16:32:35 GMT from United Kingdom)
Swapfiles work on BtrFS, but they need to be mounted on a subolvume that doesn't use snapshots. It's disappointing Linux Mint doesn't set this up by default, but if you want quick snapshots and a swapfile, look at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Btrfs#Swap_file
38 • Encyption (by Friar Tux on 2020-07-06 17:47:30 GMT from Canada)
@30 (user15) I'll have to disagree. Encryption, as I mentioned in my comment, is fraught with too many issues to make it worth my time. To me, even the time Jesse spent dealing with his encryption issues would make me scrap it. I see it worthwhile in a big corporation as mentioned by @31 (Tim), but not for 'home' use.
@36 (MK) Interesting opinion. Me, I'm Canadian and like the 'women's names'. Do you also not like Siri, Cortana, or Alexa? I wonder if it's a cultural thing. I knew someone a few years ago the didn't like certain names, either, and it was a cultural issue. Something about certain sounds being a bad omen. Interesting.
39 • Encryption (by Cheker on 2020-07-06 21:21:06 GMT from Portugal)
I use encrypted containers for what matters. Encrypting the whole disk sounds like something I would've done...after buying the computers. But now they all have at least two OS and I don't feel like it, what's not in containers isn't that important in the grand scheme of things.
40 • @36, LM code names (by Angel on 2020-07-07 02:44:56 GMT from Philippines)
I understand that people like or dislike certain distros, but the reasons given make me scratch my head sometimes.
Kernels: I run kernels from 4.12 to 5.7 and could not tell the difference unless I ask. (uname -r) Unless it improves driver or software performance on your hardware, it makes little or no difference what kernel, as long as security updates are current. Linux Mint runs the same kernels as Ubuntu LTS, (5.4) You may or may not update kernels as you wish. If you want more, you can install from the Ubuntu mainline PPA directly or with a tool called "Mainline."
As far as naming, female names seem a lot more pleasant than things like Avaricious Aardvark or Petulant Platypus. MX19 is Patito Feo (Ugly Duckling) but that is self-deprecating and it does fit. The weird names don't keep me away from Ubuntu, not the women's names from Mint. I refer to them as Mint 20 or Ubuntu 20.04 in any case. If you feel the male gender is slighted, maybe you should suggest the alternate. Maybe: Marsha, John.
You must be really older generation to be reminded a 66-year-old battle. And by the way, the name is Dien Vien (or Bien) Phu. French are welcome there today as long as they bring money, unless they are named Jacques and Brigitte. :)
41 • encryption (by Lurker on 2020-07-07 07:07:22 GMT from Philippines)
I don't encrypt anything on my laptop (main device used). I frequently hop from distro to distro and reinstall my OS for one reason or another. I used to encrypt, but doing so once cost me all my personal files after a kernel upgrade because the system somehow botched the key file(?) and my passphrase wasn't taken. Had to do a quick reformat of the drive and use a tedious undelete utility to recover things. Never again. Encryption is necessary for other people and it works for them, but not for me.
42 • encryption and backup (by peer on 2020-07-07 09:05:40 GMT from Netherlands)
How do I backup an encrypted home directory???
43 • @42 (by denPes on 2020-07-07 11:10:41 GMT from Belgium)
"How do I backup an encrypted home directory???"
Depends what encryption you use. But if you use luks encryption, which has been the standard on linux for a while, it is pretty easy to backup.
basically with luks encryption the system will open your encrypted partition during the boot process, when it asks you for the password. After it is opened, it is no longer encrypted for the user. In other words, you can just backup it as you would normally do with any directory.
Most negative comments here on encryption, like comment #38, are either because they have used stuff like encfs, which imo sucks, or because they have never setup luks encryption manually, and therefore it feels like some blackbox to them. While the process is very simple and transparant. Pretty much all distro's support luks, so therefore opening the container from another distro is not a problem.
Without encryption, losing your laptop or pc (due to theft or or other reason) could a big problem. With encryption you would only lose your hardware. So encryption of at least /home is a no-brainer for me.
44 • Frequent Backups Are Important (by Neo's cat on 2020-07-07 12:24:56 GMT from Ukraine)
@ 41:
> I used to encrypt, but doing so once cost me all my personal files after a kernel upgrade because the system somehow botched the key file(?) and my passphrase wasn't taken.
This is a great example of why, if you value your data, encrypted or not, you perform frequent *backups*. You can't blame encryption on this one, mate.
45 • Encfs & luks (by Friar Tux on 2020-07-07 18:20:27 GMT from Canada)
@43 (denPes) Actually, I've used neither encfs nor luks, nor any other encryption software. I research all the stuff that goes on my computer BEFORE I load it on. Both the good AND the bad. If I think the bad out-weighs the good, I don't use it. This has saved me a lot of headaches that I see others having.
46 • @38 FriarTux: (by dragonmouth on 2020-07-07 20:54:14 GMT from United States)
"Do you also not like Siri, Cortana, or Alexa? "
I have no objections to the names but I do have objections to the applications. :-)
47 • encryption (by dragonmouth on 2020-07-07 21:08:31 GMT from United States)
@28:
"The overhead is barely noticeable on modern hardware"
The day to day overhead may be "barely noticeable". However, when you have to recover a borked encrypted partition or disk, the overhead becomes very noticeable all of a sudden.
@30:
"In my opinion encrypting, at least, your home directory is a must"
Only if you keep the plans for the next uprising or for a suitcase nuclear device on it. :-)
Anybody/everybody is welcome to the garbage that I keep in my /home.
48 • Linux Mint 20 (by Roger on 2020-07-07 22:13:11 GMT from Belgium)
Linux Mint 20 Mate, works like I expected simply good like always when using Mint Mate.
The only problem I had was on one PC the driver for Realtek network.
Circumvented that by placing a Intel PCI network card and ready, the correct driver will come and I do not bother myself with it now.
Maybe I simply leave that card in there, all the other PC and laptop work fine.
Using Mint now for eleven years on a lot of PC and laptop, I think I installed it more than a thousand times in that time.
49 • Encryption (by Joe Blogs on 2020-07-08 01:57:07 GMT from New Zealand)
I generally don't encrypt my home directory or drive. Mostly because I just haven't felt the need for it. Which means I haven't really investigated using luks (which is what I would use if I was to encrypt my drive or home directory)
50 • @48 Linux Mint 20 (by Titus_Groan on 2020-07-08 02:03:26 GMT from New Zealand)
unless you have 90 units on the network, installing LM 1000x over eleven years is not a record I would be envious of.
I doubt I re-installed Win95 that many times, but enough times to remember a Microsoft Win95 product key to this day.
I much prefer install x1, and thats it.
(I have maybe a dozen computers on Linux, and my daily driver laptop install was in 2014)
on-line upgrades have yet to fail, but you do need take the necessary precautions.
re: feature story:
again, it seems like Linux Mint over promised and under delivered.
swap failure on BTRFS is something that should have been picked up in pre-release testing.
Guest session not working, again, should have been picked up.
virtual box performance, both speed and screen sizing, should have been addressed.
Not surprisingly, as it seems that LM is still seeming to behave like "Ubuntu released 2 month ago, lets get this thing out the door" .
51 • Encryption, no and yes. (by Angel on 2020-07-08 02:16:11 GMT from Philippines)
No, I don't encrypt home or hard disk. I'm not much of a ratpack, and I am meticulous about keeping sensitive or important data in external storage or in the cloud. All that resides in my home partitions is temporary and harmless.
On the other hand, after many years running a PC service business, I've seen enough of other people's computers, and most would probably benefit from some privacy measures, even if not to protect trade/political secrets and such. Not talking black helicopters here, just maybe avoiding having videos of user and girlfriend on FaceBook or PornHub, or even divorce court. Also, in these days of ubiquitous social media, it may not do to have something written or said and forgotten be displayed online for all to see. People lose jobs and/or reputations often over such things.
Of course, if one is giving technicians access, encrypting hard drive or home partitions won't help any, so maybe better to have other directories or partitions with their own keys or passwords.
52 • LM 20 (by Rick on 2020-07-08 12:03:45 GMT from United States)
It is hard to believe after all these years that Mint does not have a failsafe method for upgrading from one major release to the next without having to do a fresh install. Ubuntu has had something like that for years. Why doesn't Mint? Like Titus Groan stated above, the last install he did was in 2014. You should only have to install Mint once and then all other installs should be automatic upgrades without having to start all over from scratch. It's very time consuming. A fresh install with all my needed data files and programs takes me at least 4 hours. I think Mint is in a rut and is digging its grave deeper and deeper!
53 • Upgrading LM (by Friar Tux on 2020-07-08 13:30:16 GMT from Canada)
@52 (Rick) But they DO have the upgrading from one major release to the next... I switched from LM 17 to LM 18 and then, later, to LM 19 using the Update Manager. It presented no issues or glitches and I was able to just carry on as usual. You can read all about it on the Linux Mint website.
54 • Linux Mint Upgrade Process (by Rick on 2020-07-08 16:15:43 GMT from United States)
To: Friar Tux - Your reply was not clear. You can't upgrade from LM 17.0 to 18.0 or LM 18.0 to LM 19.0, etc. in one step. You have to go from LM 17.0 to 17.1 to 17.2 to 17.3 before you can upgrade to LM 18.0. The same goes for LM 18 to LM 19 and LM 19 to LM 20. It is a 4-step process each time. That's why a rolling release distro is your best bet. You install it once and you're done.
55 • Disk encryption (by Wally on 2020-07-08 17:09:45 GMT from United States)
I use both file containers (for flash drives) and some whole-disk encryption. I can't think of any /home filesystem encryption that I use.
I use VeraCrypt for the flash drives, but LUKS2 for the whole-disk on the laptops.
56 • @40 LM code names (by MK on 2020-07-08 19:02:16 GMT from Israel)
Thank you for the correction, I did mess up the name a bit.
You don't have to be old to know history. Sometimes I am reminded of the battle of Asculum or Thermopylae, which are much older, and unrelated to female names or to LM.
57 • Encryption (by Andy Figueroa on 2020-07-08 19:35:53 GMT from United States)
I selected in the poll that "I do not use storage encryption" but that's not totally true. I selectively encrypt files that contain private information.
58 • Mint Upgrade (by Friar Tux on 2020-07-08 19:40:19 GMT from Canada)
@54 (Rick) You're right, of course. I just rounded out the numbers for brevity. But each time an new release comes out, I wait about a month or so to ensure most of the bugs have been dealt with, and then I simply upgrade using the Update Manager. It works just like having a rolling release. Best of both worlds.
59 • @Rick re. LM 20 (by Barnabyh on 2020-07-08 21:44:05 GMT from Czechia)
You shouldn't have to do a fresh install, why would you? I upgraded LMDE 3 to 4 without any hassle, but it pays to follow the instructions.
If you insist reinstalling is better, create a separate home partition next time so you don't have to restore data, then you only need to reinstall your system.
Export a list of installed packages from Synaptic as well as additional sources before you do that and import into Synaptic in the new install, apply, all remaining packages will be installed. Doesn't take four hours.
60 • The Advantages of Kernel Updates (by David on 2020-07-09 08:13:50 GMT from United States)
@40
Re: Your comment -
" Kernels: I run kernels from 4.12 to 5.7 and could not tell the difference unless I ask. (uname -r) Unless it improves driver or software performance on your hardware, it makes little or no difference what kernel, as long as security updates are current."
Kernel updates relate to more than just security & performance optimizations, and since you are running v. 4.12 on some of your boxes, this article may be of interest, if code/system bloat is an issue that concerns you -
" Linux kernel 4.18: Better security, leaner code"
"The latest version of the Linux kernel cleans out nearly 100K lines of code, adds file encryption and the Berkeley Packet Filter, plus makes a nod to gamers and mobile devices."
Code Cleanup
"For one thing, the 4.18 kernel has brought about the surprising removal of nearly 100,000 lines of outdated code. That's a lot of code! Does this mean that any of your favorite features may have been ripped out? That is not very likely. This code cleanup does means that a lot of code deadwood has been carefully expunged from the kernel along with one significant chunk. As a result, the new kernel should take up less memory, run a little more efficiently and be less vulnerable to attacks that might have taken advantage of the neglected sections of older code. This change also leaves the remaining code somewhat cleaner and easier to manage."
https://www.networkworld.com/article/3299457/linux-kernel-418-better-security-leaner-code.html
If a kernel update installs security updates, performance optimizations, and deletes outdated/insecure code that reduces system bloat, then I personally consider that to be working to my advantage.
JMHO
61 • Rolling release (by Amg on 2020-07-09 08:29:51 GMT from France)
@54
"54 • Linux Mint Upgrade Process (by Rick on 2020-07-08 16:15:43 GMT from United States)"
"You have to go from LM 17.0 to 17.1 to 17.2 to 17.3 before you can upgrade to LM 18.0. The same goes for LM 18 to LM 19 and LM 19 to LM 20. It is a 4-step process each time."
Install - update - update - .... upgrade to next - update - update... upgrade to next ...... and so on
You can consider this to be rolling release :)
62 • Linux Mint Upgrade (by whatEver on 2020-07-09 10:57:49 GMT from Switzerland)
As much as I know, there is upgrade and "upgrade".
Going from 18.0 to 18.1, 18.2 and 18.3 (point release XX.0 - XX.3) might be easy, however, going from 17.X to 18.X, to 19.X and 20.X (major release) is a huge problem in Mint.
It might work if you don't have many external repositories and even then, it'll be kinda gambling. 17, 18 and 19 use different init's and different display managers...
It's much easier to save those few hundreds of MB of data and make a clean install, which is done in less than an hour (depending on your HW - it might be even done in a couple of minutes), then doing upgrade from one to another major release, that'll take many hours and usually be more or less broken at the end.
https://itsfoss.com/upgrade-linux-mint-version/
https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.com/p/upgrade-mint.html
https://www.linuxtechi.com/how-to-upgrade-to-linux-mint-20-ulyana/
63 • kernels (by vern on 2020-07-09 13:25:04 GMT from United States)
#40, #60: Sometimes people want the latest release because, well, its the latest :)
Not just kernels, but almost every program. I read the changelog and on most, little to almost nothing of value is of interest to me.
Security is for me is the reason to upgrade. Also bug fixes come in a close second.
I'm going to check up on kernel 4.18 to see what's in store. Thanks
I do agree that without (uname -r) , I wouldn't know what I was running.
64 • @60, Kernel updates (by Angel on 2020-07-09 14:13:58 GMT from Philippines)
"If a kernel update installs and deletes outdated/insecure code that reduces system bloat, then I personally consider that to be working to my advantage."
Bloat: You're kidding! 4.18 had over 1 million more lines of code than 4.12. Out of 25.xx million, 100,000 is not even a drop in the bucket. The 5.7 kernel has around 27.8 million lines.
https://i.redd.it/f5dj3resjvw11.png
"security updates, performance optimizations" Just words, unless they translate to to something measurable for the user. If they do, why not? I set up KDE to my liking, and it always ends up looking the same. I can replace the Manjaro (5.6) I'm running with Kubuntu (5.4), or Devuan (4.19) and they'd all look and behave pretty much the same, to the point that on the desktop it would be quite difficult to tell which distro, never mind what kernel.
I threw 4.12 out there as a low end. Actually, I don't have 4.12 running. I think OpenSuse 15 was the last. I do have 4.19, and a server running Centos 7 still on kernel 3.10, and I do have a VM with Lubuntu 10.04 (2.16 I believe) for auld lang syne. I don't have "boxes." I have a laptop and a desktop, with a server for videos and such. A few systems on SSDs, but most are on VMs. More of a hobby than anything else.
But the original argument was about Mint. I worked on expats PCs here, and suggested dual-booting to most, so if they borked their Windows, they could still get their internet fix. I preferred Mint because I could install an LTS, spend a few minutes showing, and not hear from them for years.
65 • Main Objective - Removal of Obsolete Code (by David on 2020-07-09 16:55:18 GMT from United States)
@64
I used the term "boxes" as a generic euphemism indicating PC's/ laptops /servers. I apologize if you found my terminology to be offensive.
The kernel code "bloat," for me anyway, is secondary to the removal of obsolete, insecure, buggy and superfluous code. I believe I have read that subsequent kernel updates have deleted even more lines of outdated code, but I couldn't find a more recent article during my search.
Be that as it may, the conversation veered towards the kernel itself, so I inserted my comment. I made no mention of Mint because I haven't used it in many years, and have no current personal interest in Mint, though I had no problems with it when I ran it on my "boxes."
I run Arch exclusively, so I know at all times which current kernel version I'm running during any given update cycle, uname -r notwithstanding.
I fully respect your right to run any kernel version / distro / DE that you wish to, on any device that you select to operate.
JMHO
66 • Distro Dissimilarity Identification (by David on 2020-07-09 19:44:24 GMT from United States)
@64
I forgot to mention this issue that you brought up in your commentary -
You stated the following -
"I can replace the Manjaro (5.6) I'm running with Kubuntu (5.4), or Devuan (4.19) and they'd all look and behave pretty much the same, to the point that on the desktop it would be quite difficult to tell which distro, never mind what kernel."
A user would be able to detect an operational difference between distros by the terminal command terminology.
A terminal command such as sudo -k pacman-key --refresh will run successfully in a Manjaro terminal, but would surely generate an error in either a Devuan or Kubuntu terminal, correct ?
JMHO
67 • @65,66 Kernels and such (by Angel on 2020-07-09 20:29:40 GMT from Philippines)
I'm so glad you respect my right to run any kernel I wish on any hardware I wish. Is it only Arch users that feel entitled to patronize? I've installed Arch, run Arch, been there, done that. Right now I prefer Manjaro, which in my view has not only made Arch bearable, but pleasurable as well. They look like they may be the next Ubuntu, and I wish them luck. But yes, I do know what kernel I'm running.
All beside the point, which was that if it doesn't make a difference in your hardware, it makes no difference what kernel you are running, and the kernels provided by distros, including Mint, will probably be fine, even if not the latest and bestest. This applies to the majority of users. Example: I own another laptop, now on loan to a relative. Prior to the 5.x kernels, the touchpad and WiFi drivers had to be compiled. No-brainer, use a 5.+ kernel to make life easier. If you want native exFAT support, use 5.4+. I'm sure there are advantages in using later kernels for particular uses. On the other hand: I learned to like KDE with KDE neon, since it was based on Ubuntu 16.04. By using Ukuu (now Mainline), I kept up with the latest kernels (now 5.7.8) just for kicks. The system ran just the same with the original kernel as with the latest. No difference.
"A user would be able to detect an operational difference between distros by the terminal command terminology." Perhaps I needed to further explain that I meant using the desktop GUI. Even then, I suppose one can bring up the "Info" app on KDE and find out. But that would be picking at nits.
68 • A One-Person Argument (by David on 2020-07-09 22:16:53 GMT from United States)
@67
What you characterize as entitlement and patronization was my obviously mistaken & misplaced attempt to politely convey respect for your, and to any other given Linux user's choices.
You choose to be gratuitously argumentative, so please continue to be happy with Manjaro, and I'll leave it at that.
One last suggestion - you may want to evaluate EndeavourOS - I'm running it on a test machine, and I prefer it to Manjaro.
JMHO
69 • Snaps & Kernels (by M.Z. on 2020-07-10 20:09:53 GMT from United States)
@22
All that Snap stuff has been discussed here before. Canonical chose to lock down the format more than anything else in Linux & it bothers those of us who care about having a truly open system. Please don't make up enemies & try to tun the biggest & most powerful name in desktop Linux into some poor little victim when they were the ones who created Snap & decided to make it far more locked down than the alternatives.
@36
I have had plenty of Ubuntu related kernel updates make a system kernel panic/become unusable, and I've had similar issues in Mageia & PCLinuxOS. Creating options for safer more controlled kernel updates made perfect sense; however, it's all completely moot given how much has with backups & system updates in the past few years. It felt like I had LMDE 3 + BTRFS snapshots to prevent stability issues forever, though it was never needed. In fact it feels like it's been so long I can hardly believe anyone was so clueless as to attack kernel updates. At any rate LMDE 4 updated kernels on my laptop with zero intervention from within Mint.
Also, disparaging code names? Really? The Ubuntu ones are a bit silly, but not as silly as hyperventilating about code names. I was rather amused by the kernel 'Linux 3.11 for work-groups' & Fedora 'Spherical Cow', but it didn't make me go out of my way to use either of them any more than alliteration makes me avoid Ubuntu.
70 • Mint 20 (by Rick on 2020-07-12 11:51:28 GMT from United States)
You said: "All in all, Linux Mint 20 is a solid operating system."
Dedoimedo says: "On its own Ulyana Xfce get 6/10."
A rating of 6/10 is definitely NOT a solid operating sysem. I tend to believe Dedoimedo.
71 • @70 Rick: (by dragonmouth on 2020-07-12 13:28:12 GMT from United States)
"A rating of 6/10 is definitely NOT a solid operating sysem. I tend to believe Dedoimedo. "
Each user's experience with a distro is unique as evidenced by the responses to DW reviews. No opinions is any more valid or invalid than any other.
Invariably, whenever Jesse find problems with a distro, there are posts to the effect of "You don't know what you are talking about! Distro XYZ is the greatest thing since sliced bread." Conversely, whenever Jesse likes or praises a distro, there are posts to the effect of "You don't know what you're talking about. Distro ABC is the worst I've ever tried."
I am not saying Dedoimedo, or any other reviewer, is right or that he is wrong in his review(s). What we the users need to do is to read the reviews, try the distro(s) and form our own opinions about them.
When you don't like what someone says, don't say he is crazy or stupid. Ask him/her why they are saying what they are saying.
Number of Comments: 71
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