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1 • Gobo filesystem hierarchy (by vern on 2020-06-29 00:21:25 GMT from United States)
I have no preference, but I noticed that many of the Linux structure is now combinning "/usr/bin, /usr, /usr/sbin". I'm not sll that sure of why. Use to be I know where to look, now I find that I use locate or find command to find applications.
2 • Proposal to ship BTRFS as default in Fedora (by Newby on 2020-06-29 01:25:48 GMT from Canada)
Under the Fedora heading, the second proposal mentioned is to make BTRFS the default filesystem in Fedora. I seem to recall a previous (my memory may be faulty) discussion here about Fedora having dropped support for BTRFS because of incidents of fatal data loss/corruption. Also that SuSE had continued to main support and development. Another concern had been lack of a BTRFS recovery tool. Does anyone know what the present status is with BTRFS with respect to support, stability, recovery, and data integrity? Also, perhaps, the tradeoffs between BTRFS, and ZFS on Linux? Seem to also recall something about ZFS being the only filesystem able to deal with "bitrot". Should imagine when it comes to data integrity and recovery, these issues would be of concern to everyone if they value their data. Your hardware can be replaced, your data, well.....(hope you make backups).
3 • Gobo Linux file hierarchy (by Bobbie Sellers on 2020-06-29 02:51:10 GMT from United States)
Well it sounds like a good idea but if does not work to compile and install programs it will require further development to attain a state useful to novices and to people with a deeper knowledge of GNU/Linux, etc.
I think the modular directories should be able to expose their contents so that a file manager like Dolphin or Midnight Commander can penetrate to the textual guts of the system. This lets the novice learn and the ignorant simply use the machine with its modular organization.
Once they are doing that installation by compilation of source code or install by package managers might be more possible. Definitely for the novice use of a simple package manager like Synaptic would be essential.
IMO
bliss - who once had one grunch but the egg plant over there.
4 • I'd prefer another approach, I just don't know what it is. (by mmphosis on 2020-06-29 03:20:53 GMT from Canada)
• A database. Maybe. I've tried this and it is frought with peril.
• Maybe, a very sparse number of folders:
/home (or /Users) for data.
/systems for installed distros. I like my distros, definitely, and way more than 3.
/programs maybe, for common program and libraries
I like having a program (or system) and all it's resources (and dependencies) contained with a folder, but of course that could get unwieldy. I like the idea of GUIX, but sadly have stayed away from it. I imagine the approach I am thinking of would pretty much break $PATH. I've never liked having hard coded paths anyways, relative paths and indexes to programs is where I'd like to go.
5 • Gobo (by Linuxista on 2020-06-29 05:10:54 GMT from United States)
Gobo's idea may be alright in practice, though maybe the need for it was more relevant years ago when package management was more primitive and majority of users were recent immigrants from Windows. My problem with the approach is that it's so different from the rest of the linux ecosystem. If you start out on Gobo or use it for a long time, you're going to be lost on any other linux distro's filesystem. I'd rather have translatable skills.
6 • One app, one place (by Somewhat Reticent on 2020-06-29 06:06:47 GMT from United States)
Is this similar to NixOS, 0install, GUIX, … ?
7 • Mint (by Anis on 2020-06-29 06:46:21 GMT from Germany)
I love that Linux Mint decided not to use snap, I think it was a very wise decision from the Linux Mint team. Thanks a lot Mint.
8 • Filesystem layout (by Alexandru on 2020-06-29 07:17:50 GMT from Austria)
The layout of Unix filesystem shared with *BSD and Linux was designed the way it is now for a good reason. Different OS resources have different properties: - Some files are executable, others are not, - Some files should be read-only, other places should be writable, - Some files are small and stored in deep directory hierarchy, others are large and stored in a one-level directory hierarchy.
For all these options, different filesystem formatting and / or mounting options can be used: - Some partitions can be mounted to not allow execution of files they hold, - Some partitions can be mounted read-only and with no journal, - Some partitions can be formatted with smaller block size (uses less space for large connection of small files and deep directory hierarchy), others with larger block size (more suitable for large files in plain layout).
When standard filesystem layout is used, similar in purpose files, which have similar filesystem hints can be put together in separate partition formatted and mounted to take the advantage of these options. Namely, in *BSD land the suggested layout is to put /var, /tmp, /usr, and some other directories in separate partitions and prepare them specifically for the files they are going to hold.
Linux usually does not suggest to keep different partitions for different system directories, so there is no technical advantage to use Gobo like filesystem layout here. But this layout vanishes the potential advantages of using optimized formatting / mounting options for different kinds of files.
9 • BtrFS in Fedora by default (by Pikolo on 2020-06-29 08:45:41 GMT from United Kingdom)
Has Fedora seen the light? After RHEL dropped support for BtrFS, this is the last thing I would expect, but also a very pleasant surprise. Does it mean Stratis was abandoned, or is it just Fedora making decision independently of RedHat?
10 • Any difference from brew? (by chavellas on 2020-06-29 09:05:04 GMT from Greece)
What is the difference between GoboLinux's filesystem layout and brew (for Linux)? I do not see any. In addition to this, brew is multiplatform and can be installed on any Linux distribution, Windows, and Mac of course. I use it for a certain application, whose version is too old in my Ubuntu Linux system, and I find it an excellent alternative to snaps and flatpak. The downside is that it is very much like Windows's installation system, which, as far as I know, has been deemed ineffective and is going to change soon.
11 • GoboLinux desktop UI (by Aritz on 2020-06-29 09:19:00 GMT from Spain)
This is something pretty unrelated, but if the only visual cue in the volume icon indicating whether sound is muted is a reen/red color change, then that is probably not very accesible for people with deuteranopia/deuteranomaly, the most common color blindness phenotype...
If I were the developers, I'd make screenshots and run them through https://www.color-blindness.com/coblis-color-blindness-simulator/ to choose appropriate colors.
12 • BTRFS (by Igor on 2020-06-29 13:27:19 GMT from Croatia)
I am openSUSE user for quite a while, and BTRFS has saved my ass few times, while never causing me any inconvenience. So I always wonder why do other distros not offer it as a first choice.
13 • Compile errors (by Thomas on 2020-06-29 13:46:56 GMT from France)
What about looking for errors with strace, if available ? That could tell where the problem is located.
14 • File system (by Friar Tux on 2020-06-29 13:55:25 GMT from Canada)
I voted 'No Preference'. It really doesn't matter to me so long as the final iteration of the distro works without issues. I do have a couple of questions, though. Wouldn't this mean that you would have multiple copies of the same library file in multiple folders? This would add a huge amount of storage needs to the system. (In the present general format, do multiple apps that require the same library file, source it from a single folder (usr/lib for example)?)
15 • filesystem layout (by Sitwon on 2020-06-29 13:59:43 GMT from United States)
Package managers like Nix and Guix work similarly to Gobo. They install packages into their own subtrees and then make them available through symlinks and management of the environment variables.
Slax/Porteus also works similarly, in that packages or "modules" are distinct filesystem trees which are union-mounted together to form the "root" filesystem.
I have gotten my hands dirty with both of these approaches. I maintained a Porteus-based distro for about 3 years. At one point, I even hacked Slackware's pkgtools to work in a similar way to Nix/Guix for a toy distro I worked on.
Both approaches have a lot of merit and advantages over the default way most distros manage packages. However, there can be some minor challenges to overcome with each approach. If you're willing to work through those stumbling blocks, I believe the advantages are worth the effort. (Isolation, atomicity, optionally functional dependencies, ability to run conflicting versions concurrently, ease of development/administration, and more.)
I haven't looked too deeply at the implementation of snap/flatpack but based on their descriptions I believe they achieve a similar end result, just with a different implementation (design choices).
My personal prediction is that over the next decade we will continue moving further away from the traditional idea of the filesystem and closer toward the features of things like Object Storage (we can see ZFS and BTRFS as examples with features like spanning multiple block devices, snapshots, support for RAID-like parity, deduplication, etc.).
As those features become more commonplace, the disadvantages of segregated packages will melt away and the approach will look increasingly obvious until all package manager effectively operate in that way even if they weren't originally designed to.
16 • #3 a mix of both or probably a new way (by fonz on 2020-06-30 07:43:20 GMT from Indonesia)
would be nice, i feel the current system works just fine for the most part.
as long as its better than wandows im fine with it. so many things use electron/chromium its not even funny how thered be so many copies of it laying around. i honestly hate electron since the good old fashion way IMHO is much lighter. avast, vscode, steam, epicgames, gog, a whole bunch of other stuff and whatnot. a long time ago there was a \program files\common, shouldnt all that electron junk be trashed there instead of bloating up the system?
btrfs was nice when i play tested on opensuse tw a long time ago. it saved my desktop so many times in the past. havent touched it since im more interested with saving as much writes for my pocket os on my fd.
17 • Linux Mint 20 Xfce (by dude on 2020-06-30 08:52:23 GMT from United States)
I installed Linux Mint 20 Xfce on my laptop. I am very happy with the speed and simplicity of it. Works great! Kudos to the Linux Mint team!
18 • BTRFS (by Myrtle on 2020-06-30 13:40:38 GMT from United States)
@12 Could you explain how that file system saved you. I'm not being at all sarcastic, as I'd really like to learn the benefits of various file systems, BTRFS included.
19 • BTRFS (by Myrtle on 2020-06-30 13:47:18 GMT from United States)
Ughh.. I just found this:
"..Fedora 33 may ship with Btrfs as the default filesystem. This would allow users to make snapshots of their system prior to upgrades and expand storage across multiple disks with minimal effort"
..right here in DW Weekly News. So, the core of my question in @18 is very much answered. With apologies for the double post.
20 • Gobo -- the Unix/Linux Filesystem Hierarchy Standard (by Andy Figueroa on 2020-07-02 03:31:18 GMT from United States)
The Linux (and Unix) Filesystem Hierarchy Standard makes eminent sense, and is efficient. Gobo gives up sense and efficiency for easier to understand, which makes no sense. Users would do well to learn about the underlying standards for the systems. The following is a decent reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard
21 • "eminent sense" (by curious on 2020-07-02 08:49:00 GMT from Germany)
To me, large parts of the "Filesystem Hierarchy Standard" do *not* make sense. This is especially true for having distinctions between /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, /usr/sbin, /usr/local/bin, and /lib, /usr/lib, /usr/local/lib, as well as having /root (the root user's home) ouside of /home.
This only made sense in the 1970s, when hard drives were small and expensive, and fast hard drives were *very* expensive, so only the files that were needed quickly right at the start of the system would be put on the fastest drive.
Nowadays, these distinctions make no sense at all, and some people argue for putting more or less everything in /usr/local - which is absurd. Why not flatten the layout instead (so that what is in /usr/local gets moved to the / level instead), and get rid of the distinctions mentioned above, so all binaries are in /bin, and all libraries in /lib, and all homes (including /root) are in /home? At least, that is more logical.
22 • BTRFS and fs design (by Igor on 2020-07-02 13:02:32 GMT from Croatia)
@18 Kernel upgrade went wrong and OS doesn't boot. Even if there was an easy way do get your system back, you have to wait for the fix. OK, it is usually fast, but not as fast as the same day. So you reboot, and boot to the previous working version, go on working, and wait for the update. As if nothing happened, minor distraction. Or, you promptly need that program from GitHub that doesn't compile correctly with your distro, so you go on bungling dependencies until... well, you know. With BTRFS it goes without penalty, just reboot, step back, update and go on playing the Root Almighty. This really is the time machine, not just a means of doing it all manually. @20 And why does that program not compile with your distro, while it does with Ubuntu? In too many instances it is because developers of various distros do not interprete the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard uniformly. And this is, at least partly, because it is not as straightforward and unambiguous as a standard is supposed to be. What Gobo proposes may not be the most rational outline of filesystem, but certainly is a very simple one, eliminating the noise in the communication channel. It has been noted that many developers should be compulsory inoculated against most rational solutions that disregard communicational consequences.
23 • Gobo approach seems like a dead end to me (by CS on 2020-07-02 13:23:52 GMT from United States)
The Gobolinux team have described the feature but they haven't described the benefit. Maybe they think it's self evident?
It looks like they put a program and all(?) its dependencies in a subdirectory, similar to Mac's DMG files except without going through the trouble of making a virtual filesystem format.
This seems like a dead end compared to the more flexible flatpak, just like Solaris Zones were a dead end compared to Docker containers.
As for CentOS devs seeing the "light" of BTRFS, it's like that bright blue light you get from mishandling the "Demon Core", a few days later you drop dead. No BTRFS on my systems, I need all of my files thank you very much!
24 • Filesystems popos (by vern on 2020-07-03 02:06:45 GMT from United States)
Ever since I transition from EXT3 to EXT4 years ago, I never looked back(or forward). I read all the wondrous new and exciting filesystems. I've tried a few, but in the end, its still EXT4.
I've noticed of late the interest of Pop! OS. I have tried it, and if it weren't for the extended EFI partition I would use it. I do have it installed on a USB HD. I slightly different approach to Gnome.
25 • Btrfs,XFS, EXT4, F2FS, NILFS2 (by vern on 2020-07-03 19:10:10 GMT from United States)
Phoronix just did a test of the above filesystems. Yikes! EXT4 is not looking good. F2FS & NILFS2 crushed it!
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux-58-filesystems&num=1
Lots of EXT4 fans not convinced.
26 • EXT filesystems (by Gary W on 2020-07-03 23:31:40 GMT from Australia)
@24 but in the end, its still EXT4.
I'm still using EXT2 for SSDs and USB sticks. On the rare occasion they shut down dirty, it doesn't take much if any longer to fsck. Maybe one day I'll get around to researching how to turn off EXT4's journal. Of course I use EXT4 on terabyte drives...
27 • EXTs (by Cheker on 2020-07-04 14:21:23 GMT from Portugal)
@26 "I'm still using EXT2 for SSDs and USB sticks"
Why? Serious question. Any upside to using ext2 or ext3 when ext4 exists? Are those devices old?
28 • ftfs (by Myrtle on 2020-07-04 14:23:44 GMT from United States)
@25 I hope that post does not prompt any users to try to convert from ext4 to f2fs without doing a LOT of research.
Number of Comments: 28
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| • Issue 1156 (2026-01-19): Chimera Linux's new installer, using the DistroWatch Torrent Corner, new package tools for Arch, Haiku improves EFI support, Redcore streamlines branches, Synex introduces install-time ZFS options |
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| • Issue 1145 (2025-10-27): Linux Mint 7 "LMDE", advice for new Linux users, AlmaLinux to offer Btrfs, KDE launches Plasma 6.5, Fedora accepts contributions written by AI, Ubuntu 25.10 fails to install automatic updates |
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| • Issue 1143 (2025-10-13): openSUSE 16.0 Leap, safest source for new applications, Redox introduces performance improvements, TrueNAS Connect available for testing, Flatpaks do not work on Ubuntu 25.10, Kamarada plans to switch its base, Solus enters new epoch, Frugalware discontinued |
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| • Issue 1141 (2025-09-29): KDE Linux and GNOME OS, finding mobile flavours of Linux, Murena to offer phones with kill switches, Redox OS running on a smartphone, Artix drops GNOME |
| • Issue 1140 (2025-09-22): NetBSD 10.1, avoiding AI services, AlmaLinux enables CRB repository, Haiku improves disk access performance, Mageia addresses service outage, GNOME 49 released, Linux introduces multikernel support |
| • Issue 1139 (2025-09-15): EasyOS 7.0, Linux and central authority, FreeBSD running Plasma 6 on Wayland, GNOME restores X11 support temporarily, openSUSE dropping BCacheFS in new kernels |
| • Issue 1138 (2025-09-08): Shebang 25.8, LibreELEC 12.2.0, Debian GNU/Hurd 2025, the importance of software updates, AerynOS introduces package sets, postmarketOS encourages patching upstream, openSUSE extends Leap support, Debian refreshes Trixie media |
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| • Issue 1134 (2025-08-11): Rhino Linux 2025.3, thoughts on malware in the AUR, Fedora brings hammered websites back on-line, NetBSD reveals features for version 11, Ubuntu swaps some command line tools for 25.10, AlmaLinux improves NVIDIA support |
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| • Issue 1123 (2025-05-26): CRUX 3.8, preventing a laptop from sleeping, FreeBSD improves laptop support, Fedora confirms GNOME X11 session being dropped, HardenedBSD introduces Rust in userland build, KDE developing a virtual machine manager |
| • Issue 1122 (2025-05-19): GoboLinux 017.01, RHEL 10.0 and Debian 12 updates, openSUSE retires YaST, running X11 apps on Wayland |
| • Issue 1121 (2025-05-12): Bluefin 41, custom file manager actions, openSUSE joins End of 10 while dropping Deepin desktop, Fedora offers tips for building atomic distros, Ubuntu considers replacing sudo with sudo-rs |
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| • Issue 1119 (2025-04-28): Ubuntu MATE 25.04, what is missing from Linux, CachyOS ships OCCT, Debian enters soft freeze, Fedora discusses removing X11 session from GNOME, Murena plans business services, NetBSD on a Wii |
| • Issue 1118 (2025-04-21): Fedora 42, strange characters in Vim, Nitrux introduces new package tools, Fedora extends reproducibility efforts, PINE64 updates multiple devices running Debian |
| • Issue 1117 (2025-04-14): Shebang 25.0, EndeavourOS 2025.03.19, running applications from other distros on the desktop, Debian gets APT upgrade, Mint introduces OEM options for LMDE, postmarketOS packages GNOME 48 and COSMIC, Redox testing USB support |
| • Issue 1116 (2025-04-07): The Sense HAT, Android and mobile operating systems, FreeBSD improves on laptops, openSUSE publishes many new updates, Fedora appoints new Project Leader, UBports testing VoLTE |
| • Issue 1115 (2025-03-31): GrapheneOS 2025, the rise of portable package formats, MidnightBSD and openSUSE experiment with new package management features, Plank dock reborn, key infrastructure projects lose funding, postmarketOS to focus on reliability |
| • Issue 1114 (2025-03-24): Bazzite 41, checking which processes are writing to disk, Rocky unveils new Hardened branch, GNOME 48 released, generating images for the Raspberry Pi |
| • Issue 1113 (2025-03-17): MocaccinoOS 1.8.1, how to contribute to open source, Murena extends on-line installer, Garuda tests COSMIC edition, Ubuntu to replace coreutils with Rust alternatives, Chimera Linux drops RISC-V builds |
| • Issue 1112 (2025-03-10): Solus 4.7, distros which work with Secure Boot, UBports publishes bug fix, postmarketOS considers a new name, Debian running on Android |
| • Issue 1111 (2025-03-03): Orbitiny 0.01, the effect of Ubuntu Core Desktop, Gentoo offers disk images, elementary OS invites feature ideas, FreeBSD starts PinePhone Pro port, Mint warns of upcoming Firefox issue |
| • Issue 1110 (2025-02-24): iodeOS 6.0, learning to program, Arch retiring old repositories, openSUSE makes progress on reproducible builds, Fedora is getting more serious about open hardware, Tails changes its install instructions to offer better privacy, Murena's de-Googled tablet goes on sale |
| • Issue 1109 (2025-02-17): Rhino Linux 2025.1, MX Linux 23.5 with Xfce 4.20, replacing X.Org tools with Wayland tools, GhostBSD moving its base to FreeBSD -RELEASE, Redox stabilizes its ABI, UBports testing 24.04, Asahi changing its leadership, OBS in dispute with Fedora |
| • Issue 1108 (2025-02-10): Serpent OS 0.24.6, Aurora, sharing swap between distros, Peppermint tries Void base, GTK removinglegacy technologies, Red Hat plans more AI tools for Fedora, TrueNAS merges its editions |
| • Issue 1107 (2025-02-03): siduction 2024.1.0, timing tasks, Lomiri ported to postmarketOS, Alpine joins Open Collective, a new desktop for Linux called Orbitiny |
| • Issue 1106 (2025-01-27): Adelie Linux 1.0 Beta 6, Pop!_OS 24.04 Alpha 5, detecting whether a process is inside a virtual machine, drawing graphics to NetBSD terminal, Nix ported to FreeBSD, GhostBSD hosting desktop conference |
| • Issue 1105 (2025-01-20): CentOS 10 Stream, old Flatpak bundles in software centres, Haiku ports Iceweasel, Oracle shows off debugging tools, rsync vulnerability patched |
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Momonga Linux
Momonga Linux was a Japanese Linux distribution developed in a bazaar-style model by its developer community. The distribution's main features include secure default settings, strong support and usage of Ruby, easy handling and processing of electronic documents, packages for scientific and technical computations, an easily configurable installer, support for a large number of file systems, and selection of newest packages at the time of installation.
Status: Discontinued
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