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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Shocked (by Linuxista on 2020-05-25 00:59:18 GMT from United States)
Shocked to see 40% don't use aliases. Can't imagine running linux without them. Look into it, people. Aliases are awesome.
2 • Aliases (by Arthur on 2020-05-25 01:14:02 GMT from Australia)
I really should use aliases more. I'm aware they exist, I just don't use the terminal a whole lot.
3 • Pop (by Andy Prough on 2020-05-25 01:18:46 GMT from United States)
Gnome, systemd, full screen menu, no minimize or maximize buttons - not really much to write home about. "Performance bordering on snappy"? I can do so much better than bordering on snappy. This one is a hard pass for me.
4 • Pop!_OS (by RJA on 2020-05-25 01:19:50 GMT from United States)
@Jesse, looking good, minus it ballooning to 1.1 GB, when you didn't even open anything else! It would have been better, if it stayed at 860 MB. It does look likely that I'm going to try the Pop!_OS distro.
-RJA
5 • Pop! (by DaveW on 2020-05-25 01:40:59 GMT from United States)
I won't use Pop!_OS because I really don't like the Gnome DE. Just my personal hangup.
6 • Alias (by Bob on 2020-05-25 01:41:52 GMT from United States)
I just created this alias on my laptop to check my connection integrity. A lot simpler now.
alias st='speedtest-cli'
Thanks, Jessie.
7 • aliases (by Verndog on 2020-05-25 02:07:37 GMT from United States)
I use aliases all the time. My aliases resides in ".bash_aliases", and I have special prompt and things inside ".bashrc". Also inside bashrc is the reference to the other alias file, as such:
# Alias definitions.
# You may want to put all your additions into a separate file like
# ~/.bash_aliases, instead of adding them here directly.
# See /usr/share/doc/bash-doc/examples in the bash-doc package.
if [ -f ~/.bash_aliases ]; then
. ~/.bash_aliases
fi
I created some extensive and creative ways to use aliases. Glad you mentioned it this week. My favorite terminal execution.
Its been a long while since I looked inside my ".bashrc". The programable completion I totally forgot about and use a lot.
8 • pop and openbsd (by matt on 2020-05-25 04:01:11 GMT from United States)
Pop OS is getting a lot more publicity, as is system76. They're doing some interesting things, such as removing intels ME, iirc. Only thing about system76's hardware is that it's out of my price range. Pop is potentially a great first distro, and is usually talked about as a great gaming distro; that probably accounts for some of the popularity. I probably won't be using it any time soon, as I prefer debian.
OpenBSD 6.7 just got released. Have been running it in a vm recently. I found it really easy to install, and it's actually pretty straightforward to set it up for desktop usage. Definitely worth checking out for anyone who is looking for something different.
9 • non-GNOME DE with pop (by Laubster on 2020-05-25 04:19:01 GMT from United States)
@5, System76 has a page with simple commands to change to different desktop environments; do a web search for "popos change desktop". The last time I tried pop, I switched it to plasma, and it seemed to run OK. YMMV.
10 • My favorite alias (by randomly generated entity on 2020-05-25 04:21:05 GMT from United States)
One of the first things I do on any distro, after installing mc of course (if necessary, unfortunately it almost always is...) is create this alias:
mc='. /usr/lib/mc/mc-wrapper.sh' (on some distros - I wanna say Fedora? - it's in /usr/libexec/mc... if memory serves)
the purpose of which is to make this fine file manager exit into whatever directory you're currently in. It can be quite convenient at times.
Other than that I don't really use aliases too often. I should do more with 'em I imagine...
11 • Pop OS! (by OstroL on 2020-05-25 08:19:31 GMT from Poland)
Pop Os had done something, the Ubuntu cannot do. It must be because, Pop OS has a dedicated developer(s) for its distro, whereas Ubuntu "team is losing developers. It appears that the Ubuntu "team" is doing the "developing" for the sake of doing it, for the paycheck, but mostly paying attention to Ubuntu Mate.
"One of Pop's new features is tiled windows." Really a nice feature. Once, you get used to it, hard to stop using it. :)
12 • Tweaking Gnome shell (by eco2geek on 2020-05-25 08:51:45 GMT from United States)
@3 -- "full screen menu, no minimize or maximize buttons"
You can easily add a traditional application menu via a shell extension. You can easily add minimize and maximize buttons using Gnome Tweaks. In fact, if you're willing to put in the time to tweak the UI, you can make Gnome shell so that you rarely if ever have to use the application overview window or the icon picker.
But it still is Gnome, and, since it's based on Ubuntu, it uses systemd.
13 • @11, Pop_OS (by thesceptic on 2020-05-25 10:50:27 GMT from United States)
It could also be that it's a whole lot easier to take something someone else put together and add a few mods than to put the whole thing together in the first place. If there were no Pop_OS, Ubuntu would go on as usual. I there were no Ubuntu, Pop_OS would not be popping anywhere until they find something else to base themselves on.
BTW: The Pop extension is available for Gnome 3.36, in other distros, including Ubuntu. Ain't open source great?
14 • Pop_OS vs Ubuntu review. (by thesceptic on 2020-05-25 11:51:24 GMT from United States)
I follow and enjoy the DW reviews, but this time I have a bone to pick. In Jesse's comparison of Pop_OS and Ubuntu it isn't noted that they were tested on different hardware with Pop getting the better shot. Also, in several reviews I've read and in my own experience, the bad time Jesse had with Ubuntu is apparently an outlier. I ran Ubuntu 20.04 since the daily builds were available, and installed the final release in a VM and bare metal. If anything, my experience is opposite. Not that Pop misbehaved, but that Ubuntu behaved better.
Lest I be dismissed as a fanboi or cultist, here are photos of Ubuntu and Pop VMs running side by side on the same machine, with Ubuntu using about 300MB less memory than Pop at idle. I don't doubt that Jesse has problems with Ubuntu, but a fair comparison should be on the same hardware.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/164785504@N08/with/49933394118/
15 • @ 13 (by OstroL on 2020-05-25 12:34:55 GMT from Poland)
Pop OS is made from scratch, only using the Ubuntu repos for base, using bootstrap (Debian way) and their own extensions -- additional tweaks. Then, Pop uses vanilla gnome, and you can add any extension you want. The Pop people have to keep on their toes, for they create real hardware. :)
16 • @1 Linuxista: (by dragonmouth on 2020-05-25 12:50:10 GMT from United States)
Nothing to be shocked about. When one does not use CLI, there is no need for aliases.
17 • aliases (by wally on 2020-05-25 13:35:51 GMT from United States)
At the moment I have 18 terminals open and active. Would be lost w/o aliases, standard and custom. And lets not forget functions also.
It save a lot of typing.
18 • @15, Pop (by thesceptic on 2020-05-25 13:49:31 GMT from United States)
System 76 was talking and planning on starting to build their own last January, , as far as I know, their laptops are still made by Clevo in China. With the current situation, many plans have gone awry.
Hereis the sources.list and list.d. Try commenting out the Ubuntu repos and see what you are left with:
# deb cdrom:[Pop_OS 20.04 _Focal Fossa_ - Release amd64 (20200429)]/ focal main restricted
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ focal multiverse universe restricted main
deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ focal main restricted universe multiverse
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ focal-security multiverse universe restricted main
deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ focal-security main restricted universe multive!
rse
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ focal-updates multiverse universe restricted main
deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ focal-updates main restricted universe multiverse
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ focal-backports multiverse universe restricted main
deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ focal-backports main restricted universe multiverse
deb http://apt.pop-os.org/proprietary/ focal main
# deb-src http://apt.pop-os.org/proprietary/ focal main
deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/system76/pop/ubuntu/ focal main
deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/system76/p!
op/ubuntu/ focal main
19 • Pop vs Ubuntu (by Jesse on 2020-05-25 14:00:39 GMT from Canada)
@14: "In Jesse's comparison of Pop_OS and Ubuntu it isn't noted that they were tested on different hardware with Pop getting the better shot."
This is 100% false. As I pointed out in the review, I tested Pop!_OS and Ubuntu on the exact same hardware. I did this intentionally to make sure one was not given an unfair advantage over the other. Any differences come from the software as the hardware (and the VM specifications, where applicable) are identical for both reviews.
20 • Cli & aliases (by Friar Tux on 2020-05-25 14:03:14 GMT from Canada)
I have to agree with @16 (dragonmouth) on this one. I strongly believe that in this day and age, we can do without CLI. That's not to say we should eliminate it. I can see by the comments, here, that it has tons of fans. It's just that I prefer the point and click method of working (oh, and the keyboard shortcut method thrown in for good measure). In MY perfect world, I'd love to see most computers/laptops run by an A.I. that would use natural language, where I can putter away in my woodshop and still work on my laptop, verbally, from across the room. At present, that's a no go, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. (The Mycroft AI project is getting close.)
21 • Aliases (by CS on 2020-05-25 14:21:40 GMT from United States)
Aliases, personally I don't use them. I do have a bunch of my own utility scripts which might reduce my need for them.
I am glad that it's been a long time since I've installed a distro that had the pre-set alias ls=ls --color. Maybe it's just the distro I use but what an obnoxious thing to do. There was no options for "delete obnoxious default aliases" but these were always among the first things to go.
Oh and @14 Your posts prove something, that's for sure. Maybe not what you were going for, but something.
22 • Alias (by bison on 2020-05-25 15:37:52 GMT from United States)
My favorite alias:
alias grep='grep --color=auto --exclude-dir=*'
--exclude-dir=* suppresses all the " grep: /usr/include/...: Is a directory" messages.
23 • Sparky, Redcore, @21 (by El Pendejo on 2020-05-25 15:51:51 GMT from Spain)
Sparky can be fit with snappy Gnome. Redcore look beautiful.
@21, May be posts prove you cannot accept all in the internet, not even DW.
24 • Custom and Disro-supplied Aliases (Ubuntu Cinnamon Remix 20.04 & Windows 10) (by Roy on 2020-05-25 16:56:26 GMT from United States)
So I am trying to repair an old BLU 8 inch phablet. Thanks to the Ubuntu LivePatch enabled in the Ubuntu Cinnamon Remix 20.04 I was still able to get back into the operating system with the phablet hooked up but in Fallback mode. I was given the option to log into a none working phablet in the UEFI on my computer though. Don't let anybody tell you that Linux doesn't have a sense of humor. Windows 10 found the Qualcomm processor in the BLU phablet and updated it. If it wasn't written in Chinese on the Phablet I might not have screwed it up in the first place. Maybe and maybe not. LOL I would love to route the device but that is beyond me. I put the Phablet on my Vizio Costar USB instead of my PC and the red light is on. I am not sure if the CoStar reads Chinese. But the Qualcomm processor doesn't show in my UEFI now.
25 • aliases (by msi on 2020-05-25 19:47:50 GMT from Germany)
When defining aliases, it's a good idea to avoid masking standard commands. So, if I was going to define an alias for 'ls -l', that would be 'll', and the one for 'ls -a' would surely be 'la'. This way, you still have standard 'ls' available and won't need to mess around with 'unalias', 'command' etc. whenever you suddenly don't want a detailed list or want to hide dotfiles for a change.
As someone has mentioned above, it does make sense to keep aliases in a separate file. I'd use '~/.sh_aliases' and then keep the alias definitions in that file POSIX-ly correct (which they should be anyway, unless you're doing something crazy). This way, I can easily source the aliases file in the startup files of other shells as well, should I want that.
Last but not least, let's hear the Bash Reference Manual on aliases: "For almost every purpose, shell functions are preferred over aliases." (https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/html_node/Aliases.html#Aliases)
Have a nice day.
26 • Command line aliases (by penguin386 on 2020-05-25 20:46:39 GMT from United States)
I don't use command line aliases. I've used them in the past and they are very handy. But now, I'm studying for the CompTIA Linux+ certification exam, and I need to practice using the actual commands on the command line, because my homegrown aliases won't be available on the exam.
27 • aliases (by Andy on 2020-05-25 20:49:18 GMT from Poland)
I wonder how many people who use the command line regularly have selected "I don't use aliases", as most (if not all) distros set a few default ones, like 'alias ls="ls --color=auto"'
28 • Alias (by Cheker on 2020-05-25 21:50:36 GMT from Portugal)
I don't use aliases because I didn't know about 'em till now. Then again, I rely a lot on shell history, so the aliases I would end up using would be on those maintenance commands that I just bring up with the history and by pressing up as it is.
29 • Pop OS (by penguin386 on 2020-05-25 22:32:56 GMT from United States)
I agree with DaveW, because I don't like the Gnome DE either. I tried Pop OS in a VM and Gnome was a no go. I really hate the "Activities" feature of Gnome 3. That's why I'm sticking with Mint and the Cinnamon DE instead.
30 • aliases (by dolphin oracle on 2020-05-26 02:00:25 GMT from United States)
I've used la and ll for ls -a and ls -l respectively for so long I forgot they were aliases!
31 • Pop *#?!&@&#!*@ OS (by Ankleface Wroughlandmire on 2020-05-26 02:26:28 GMT from Ecuador)
Interesting take on Pop OS by Jesse. I also find it interesting that two distros can be so similar and yet so different. Apart from the random characters in its name ;-P the main turnoff for me is actually the Pop theme. To each his own, but unlike Jesse I greatly prefer Ubuntu's Yaru theme over Pop's. Ubuntu 20.04 is an incredibly elegant and professional looking OS that I dare say rivals Mac OS in its default presentation. Pop on the other hand exudes a gamer / script kiddy ethos that doesn't agree with me. And Ubuntu's tweaks and extensions provide the only Gnome experience that I would consider to be even remotely usable. But I still prefer Cinnamon and Plasma on openSUSE for my needs.
32 • distro aliases (by Matt on 2020-05-26 07:01:12 GMT from United States)
A number of distributions have aliases listed in the default user .bashrc file. If you open that file with a text editor, you will find many potentially useful aliases commented out. All you have to do is uncomment them to use them.
33 • Aliases? (by copper on 2020-05-26 07:21:58 GMT from Finland)
Why would I use aliases? The need for them is a major disadvantage if you are trying to move from Windows. CLI became unnecessary when Windows replaced DOS, remember?
34 • @31 (by OstroL on 2020-05-26 07:25:11 GMT from Poland)
"but unlike Jesse I greatly prefer Ubuntu's Yaru theme over Pop's."
A theme is a theme, which might make a distro look nice, depending on the taste of the person, but it doesn't make the distro better. You can always change the theme.
Ubuntu should've stayed Unity.
35 • Pop OS v Ubuntu (by Joseph on 2020-05-26 10:41:27 GMT from United Kingdom)
Recently it seems that Ubuntu have focused on the server side and forgotten the actual desktop...their original supporters, I guess making a profit comes first. The Ubuntu desktop as is...well it is sluggish and loads slowly and needs a lot of fixing after installation, at least in my experience. I wanted to like the Ubuntu LTS 20.04 but.. However the other spins like Pop OS tune the performance noticeably much better, I wish I was not critical, as I have loved Ubuntu over all the years since the earliest Warty Warthog, I can't now remember before that name, but now it just seems to lack some polish...I hope they don't give up on the desktop users who supported them from the beginning. Just my feelings, so don't get too upset by these comments please.
Thanks to all who work on these amazing distros!!
36 • Pop OS comment (by dude on 2020-05-26 11:13:24 GMT from United States)
The gnome Activities Overview screen reminds me of the infamous UAC screen introduced in Windows Vista. It covers the entire screen with a darkened transparent overlay, preventing me from accessing the desktop. But that's not the fault of Pop OS, since it's based on Ubuntu. I'd like to see some alternative Pop OS 'Spins' with different desktop environments. How about an LXDE spin? I recently tried the Fedora LXDE spin and I really liked the speed, simplicity and lack of the Activities Overview. In fact, Fedora offers spins with a choice of 7 different desktop environments besides gnome.
37 • LXDE (by anticapitalista on 2020-05-26 12:04:09 GMT from Greece)
@36 - Is lxde still actively developed?
38 • "active development" (by curious on 2020-05-26 12:17:19 GMT from Germany)
@37 If LXDE is no longer actively developed, doesn't that mean that no new bugs or regressions will be introduced? Finally, a stable environment that just continues doing what it should do ...
39 • haiku and ufs (by kolea on 2020-05-26 12:21:05 GMT from Republic of Moldova)
this is a good news that haiku will have support for bsd & linux file systems,
it will be possible to dual boot it with unix systems.
40 • Prefer to avoid Aliases (by Luke on 2020-05-26 12:25:46 GMT from United States)
I do tend to set up a few on my home and work computers (and I answered the poll accordingly), but do note that relying too heavily on aliases can become problematic if you frequently need to log in to a lot of different remote boxes. I'm not currently in devops or a sysadmin but I believe this is a fairly common viewpoint in those professions.
41 • LXDE (by anticapitalista on 2020-05-26 13:07:01 GMT from Greece)
@ Perhaps, but that wasn't my question.
42 • Just how a person looks at things. (by Garon on 2020-05-26 14:40:06 GMT from United States)
@34, Totally agree.
@38, also doesn't that mean there would be no improvements as needed?
43 • @37 - LXDE development (by Uncle Slacky on 2020-05-26 15:16:46 GMT from France)
I'm not sure if development has been frozen, but https://github.com/lxde doesn't look too lively - since April 1st, only lxterminal has been modified.
44 • LXDE, bugs, and Pop (by Cynic on 2020-05-26 16:13:23 GMT from Ghana)
@38..
That would only be true if you kept the rest of your OS at a snapshot without ever updating other things which LXDE would depend on. In addition, it also assumes that the developers of LXDE did not use any functions or libraries etc which will -ever- be deprecated. You're more likely to end up with more bugs than less as the base will change without the UI adapting.
In theory, if you were to recompile LXDE from source up against new libraries and such, it may continue to work for a while.. but if any major versions are released which mess with it you'd be out of luck.
Best to stick with XFCE.. stable, maintained, easy to customize.
In regards to Pop_OS:
Meh. As long as Gnome still requires systemd I'm not interested. I'm also not sure what they'd be doing to Ubuntu to somehow make it "faster".. but "fast" when using more than 1gb RAM on idle is almost a joke. It used to be that you could reliably use a Linux distro on systems with only 1GB of RAM and still have space left. Obviously Pop and similar distros have left that idea far behind.
Too much assumption coming out of developers now..
45 • go distros for XFCE or MATE or Cinnamon (by opinion-about-DEs on 2020-05-26 17:47:54 GMT from Hungary)
XFCE, XFCE, XFCE!
XFCE is so underrated! Not only GNOME and KDE exist.
And if GNOME-like thing: MATE is waaay better, the old-style GNOME is so much friendlier! If modernish DE go for Cinnamon.
And ICEwm is still living for low-resource PCs...
[ FuguIta is now on OpenBSD 6.7 :) ]
46 • Huh?!? Activities Overview vs. UAC prompt (by eco2geek on 2020-05-26 19:31:34 GMT from United States)
@36 said:
> The gnome Activities Overview screen reminds me of the infamous UAC
> screen introduced in Windows Vista. ... But that's not the fault of Pop OS,
> since it's based on Ubuntu.
Huh?!? The two have completely different purposes.
The UAC screen in Windows is asking you to confirm whether you want to give an application permission to make changes to your system. It's analogous to an application asking for an administrative password in Linux.
The Activities Overview screen (which is a part of Gnome, so any distro using Gnome as its DE will have it) does quite a few things, including showing you running application windows, allowing you to control virtual desktops, and allowing you to search for applications.
Your saying the two are similar is....quite odd.
47 • aliases "core" (by Marcos Pereira de Sousa on 2020-05-26 18:16:42 GMT from Brazil)
I think this is the core of commandliners' .bash_aliases
(some distros already adopt some):
1 alias l='ls -CN'
2 alias la='ls -AN'
3 alias lb='lsblk -fmo+rm,ro'
4 alias le='zless -NR '
5 alias ll='ls -lhN'
6 alias ls='ls --color=auto '
7 alias lla='ls -lhAN'
8 alias llt='ls -tlhN'
9 alias llat='ls -tlhAN'
Thanks! Great work DW.
48 • Ugly, bloated stuff (by Eudyptula minor on 2020-05-27 02:25:52 GMT from Australia)
@31, Agreed. I think of Pop_OS as Ubuntu's ugly fat offspring, but others may disagree. Ugly, and uses more resources. The new Simplicity alpha has an even uglier default background, but at least it's very slim and speedy.
@34, One is attracted to things that please the eye. (Apple knows.) That includes cars, houses, and even life partners. Distro desktops too. Yes, you can change it. You can also repaint you car, remodel your houses, or buy some attractive clothes for your girl/boyfriend. Okay, you win.
@34 again. If Ubuntu should have stayed with something else, it would have been Gnome 2. Look what a few developers have done for Mate. Imagine!
@36, I wonder if anyone has done a time and motion study on the Gnome way vs category menus. Should be interesting, and perhaps surprising.
Distrowatch keepers: You have Simplicity as Devuan-based. It's Based on Busterdog (Debian). No systemd thanks to the antiX and MX devs. Desktop is changing back to XFCE on the 20.7 release.
49 • To all complainers here ... (by whoKnows on 2020-05-27 12:03:47 GMT from Switzerland)
Fedora 32 vs. KDE Neon User Edition (2020 Mai 27th)
Classic (Default settings):
Gnome
https://ibb.co/zHnFYcy
KDE
https://ibb.co/phdRgmG
Modern (Default settings):
Gnome
https://ibb.co/GH9cF9H
KDE
https://ibb.co/QkKy75g
Ressources usage:
Gnome
https://ibb.co/ZmQnYP3
KDE
https://ibb.co/JHMmWZZ
I really can't understand all this crying against Gnome, resources usage, systemd, 32-bit and such.
God thanks, the developers give a sh*t what the lost in time think about.
If you don't have a PC with 1 GB of RAM, maybe you should get yourself a new PC. If it can't run 64-bit, then you needed one 15 years ago. If you can't switch the default layout, maybe you should start learning and stop complaining. If you have a problem with systemd, maybe it's time to recognize that you a left behind the times ...
50 • @ anticapitalista (by whoKnows on 2020-05-27 12:42:01 GMT from Switzerland)
https://forum.lxde.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37491
LXDE DE is as dead as something can be.
I doubt there will ever be a GTK3 LXDE.
51 • @49 Bad design remains bad if you have a fast PC (by curious on 2020-05-27 13:05:08 GMT from Germany)
A shiny user interface with a horrible workflow is reason enough to complain - nothing to do with "lost in time".
My PC is plenty fast enough, thank you. But that's it: it is a PC with a wiiiiide screen with plenty of space and a precise means of control (mouse & keyboard) - not some tiny dumbsmartphone. The desktop environment and its workflow should take that into account.
Of course, desktop environments can be adjusted. But some (guess which) make that very difficult. As user, I should not have to make as much effort as @12 describes in order to get a working environment with a sensible workflow. A desktop environment that is not adjustable enough is broken by design, and therefore it is perfectly legitimate to criticize that such a bad desktop environment is chosen as default by some distro, especially if that distro claims to be "user friendly".
Concerning systemd, I "a" not left behind the times, since I use it (NOT by choice, but because my favourite distros changed to systemd). But I see no advantage - no distro performs *better* because of systemd. The good ones just don't perform much worse than before.
52 • @ curious: Not curious enough to check the login screen? (by whoKnows on 2020-05-27 15:29:57 GMT from Switzerland)
"But that's it: it is a PC with a wiiiiide screen with plenty of space and a precise means of control (mouse & keyboard) - not some tiny dumbsmartphone. ... Of course, desktop environments can be adjusted. But some (guess which) make that very difficult."
If you're unable to switch from “modern” to “classic” look on login screen, you shouldn't be using PC at all.
And by the way, as you still didn't notice, there are a plenty of wide screen touchscreen laptops (“360”) around nowadays and I wouldn't want to use them without “dumbsmartphone”'d interface. ;)
"But I see no advantage - no distro performs *better* because of systemd."
Seeing the difference needs knowledge — do we expect it where switching the interface on login screen is already too much?
* Fedora 32 - bottom right corner - modern / classic / Wayland ;)
53 • systemd/gnome/modern/classic/etc (by Otis on 2020-05-27 19:57:07 GMT from United States)
Once again we have systemd naysayers characterized as "behind the times" and/or "complainers," etc. It did take over most distros, even the "legacy" ones that many distro devs start with when coming up with their spinoffs ("siblings," "forks," et al).
I didn't like seeing it happen but it did and it's not going away. I prefer other inits for more than one reason not the least of which has to do with that advertised as curing fragmentation so let it be a stamped out virus for all systems and distros. It flies in the face of linux very soul, as far as some of us are concerned.
The log corruption thing doesn't get much airing, but it's there as well.
Meanwhile, its proliferation seems to have more to do with how the cookie-cutter nature of the beast is easier on developer time, so ..here we are.
54 • DEs & Such (by M.Z. on 2020-05-27 22:48:31 GMT from United States)
On the Pop_OS! front, well I for one like a fair amount of the System76 hardware I read about even if it's on the pricey side; however, I'm not a fan of Gnome 3 & don't really get why they choose to go with vanilla gnome over Ubuntu style Gnome. It's arguably a more annoying default configuration for most potential users, given the apparent shift of most former Gnome users to XFCE, KDE & Cinnamon. I'm not sure about the sluggishness of Ubuntu 20.04, but it sure seems fairly buggy & crash prone compared to my other laptop distros (Mageia 7 KDE & LMDE 4). Part of it may just be that the laptop is old, but early release Ubuntu 20.04 seems to choke up & freeze a fair bit. I had a bit higher expectations for the most widely used distro & was finally getting over how bad Unity used to be for privacy.
@whoKnows
My take on the Gnome 3 thing as someone who has never liked it: they created a fairly strange DE & have given fairly meagre customization options compared to other Linux DEs. From what I know the shell extensions that are meant to provide customization are known to break & no mode allows true customization of the panels. Plus to get any of the added functionality that comes standard with most Linux DEs you have to hunt down the 'tweak tools' & shell extensions. Adding extra steps to get to basic functionality makes me say 'why bother?' when friendlier options exist.
It's worth noting to me that after Ubuntu 20.04 crashed for like the third time in 2 days & I gave up on adapting to the Ubuntu way & went to LMDE 4 I got a giddy relieved feeling & said to myself 'ahh freedom' within a minute or two. I think the vast majority of potential users just don't like the idea of changing their habits to move to the Gnome 3 paradigm & feel stifled when they try. It feels very far from the flexible 'do what you want with it' way things are allowed to be done easily in Cinnamon, KDE, & XFCE.
At any rate there is noting in Gnome 3 that couldn't be fixed fairly easily if the project adopted some of the customization flexibility built into Cinnamon. Let me drag the panels where ever I want & have normal window buttons as a default integrated component of the DE & I'm a lot happier. They could include default layouts like 'Cinnamon' 'Unity' 'Gnome2' & 'Gnome3' if they wanted, but let us modify easily afterwards if we want. They could easily change the things I don't like about Gome 3, but they seem to want to build a new paradigm & create a new way of computing, which includes a degree of annoyance that makes me want to skip any consideration of their way.
Keep in mind that if you like Gnome 3 that's fine by me, I just don't think that Gnome 3 makers want it to be liked by most potential users - they are more concerned about their design vision than what most potential users think.
@46
"Your saying the two are similar is....quite odd. "
Reading the comment, it's clearly concerned about how UAC originally covered the entire screen with a darkened overlay like how Gnome activities does. The intent of both seems to be to totally shift focus by transforming the desktop & I could see how it could be jarring/annoying to some, though it's not among the issues I had with Vista or Gnome 3.
55 • Sick Gnomes and yet more sytemD (by Cousin IT on 2020-05-28 00:35:34 GMT from United States)
Love a systemD food fight! I have two distros with and two without, and I make sure I keep them apart for dear of cross-contamination, or even fratricide, God forbid. Anyhow, today I learned Linux has a soul, so if systemD kills it, it will go to digital heaven. That's reassuring.
The people hating on Gnome remind me of an old joke told by the townsfolk back home back when: Cars used to have a starter button on the floor. You pushed down with your foot. Seems this old coot traded in his vehicle, and was complaining about the difficulty of starting the new one. He had to take off one shoe and sock, and then wangle his foot up to the dashboard just so he could push the starter button. If you're trying to use Gnome by running your mouse pointer around the screen like crazy, you're pushing the button on the dashboard with your foot. If you want the classic button on the floor, use something else. There's plenty out there, and you may be able to avoid systemD contamination as a bonus.
56 • Gnome 3 (by whoKnows on 2020-05-28 08:24:36 GMT from Switzerland)
@ M.Z.
“Keep in mind that if you like Gnome 3 that's fine by me ...”
I couldn't care less for the DE. DE is not a problem, but the people who are using it and their expectations are.
Speaking about the customization possibilities of Gnome 3, brings us to the point, the “heart of a problem”.
1. Developers can't make it right for everybody, no matter how hard they try.
Once this is not working, the other time that. Until it get's fixed. Then crying starts again. Default design is dark instead of light. Default design! If you don't like it, flip the switch and you're done! The start menu is “Smartphonelike”. Choose another one on login screen!
Then when everything works, it'll be the icons on the taskbar that are not properly designed, aligned or scaled or some similar “peanut”. When it gets solved, it's gonna be the distances between those icons ... just read Dedoimedo articles to see how sick one mind can become over time.
Different people, different ideas of “right” or “wrong”s, but the thing is, basic changes like light/dark, classic/modern start menu layouts and such are coming preconfigured (at least in Fedora/RedHAT and OpenSUSE) and everybody should be able to change it in a couple of seconds, which brings us to ...
2. Users have to adapt themselves to their OS/DE and not the other way round.
Mac comes with “Dumbsmartphone” design for many years already and I never heard of one singe Mac user ever complaining about the start menu design. There is also no way to change it from the defaults.
Windows comes with some sort of classic menu and a tablet mode. One can switch between them at any time too. But, there's no way to change the icon sets, spaces between the icons and such. Just as is the case with Mac.
Gnome which also comes with both design preconfigured, thankfully took the same approach to it like Apple & Microsoft — basic changes are preconfigured and can be done easily “with a flip” and the rest is well hidden because ...
The wast majority of people are working with their computers (which is a “tool” and NOT a “toy”), not working on their computers. I have never in my life met a customer or a friend that asked me to exchange those MacWin icons yet. Gnome understood that less is often more. Make it easy to use, not easy to customize.
3. The only users stubbornly rejecting Gnome 3 are those "suck in time".
There are more and more “all in one” designs — thin and lightweight “2 in 1”, “3 in 1”, “360”s ... they need those “Dumbsmartphone” designs, or they become a paperweight. Those who are complaining are usually still using some “2007 jewel” because “it still works”. Why not. But the world still goes forward, no matter how loud some (minority) cry.
4. Resources usage is higher than it was, but is absolutely acceptable.
As you could see it on my screenshots above, both Gnome and KDE are using about 500-600 MB RAM which shouldn't be a problem for any PC built in last 15 years or so.
All of those modern interfaces are written with “1001 script” and they all feel laggy when compared to old once, no matter if Gnome, KDE, Mac or Windows. Just like one “flashy” Angular/JQuery website feels laggy compared to a well done classic HTML. Take it or leave it if it's not for you — but don't complain constantly.
Do I care what DE you use on your computer? No. Should you care what I use on mine? No. Should we like or dislike the same? No. Should we discuss it and complain all time, again and again? No.
The sole point is — don't be so egoistic and complain about some DE based on your own taste or use cases, but try to understand that there are other users and another use cases out there too.
Gnome does its job very well — it's efficient, it's simple, it's modern and it's beautiful. Well done.
57 • @52 Stop insulting my intelligence already! (by curious on 2020-05-28 08:30:21 GMT from Germany)
Of course anyone can enable the so-called "classical" interface on Gnome 3. But it is still Gnome 3 - inferior and uncustomizable and therefore a bad interface - and it looks ugly as well. Please stop pretending that somebody who is not satisfied by that experience is stupid.
58 • Taste vs. use case (by whoKnows on 2020-05-28 09:21:46 GMT from Switzerland)
@ curious
"... it is still Gnome 3 - inferior and uncustomizable and therefore a bad interface - and it looks ugly as well. Please stop pretending that somebody who is not satisfied by that experience is stupid."
Test case:
Some “360” 13'3'' laptop in “tent-mode” has to be used via touch-screen.
Aren't you curios to find out, how many people except you would reject Gnome 3?
“Looks” are the matter of personal taste, or should I rather say, the lack of it? Usability is however the exact opposite and it has nothing to do with personal taste.
Gnome 3 is the exact opposite of “bad interface”. Ask yourself why every important Linux Distro adopted exactly Gnome 3. Some people can think, and not only about themselves.
Are you going in the beer shop, buying a Budweiser, find out that it tastes like p*ss and then go to the forums and complain about, just because you didn't like it? Don't like it — don't buy it next again, but don't bitch about it. Some might like it — as proved by its sales.
You are allowed to be dissatisfied and also to keep it for yourself.
59 • Gnome 3 (by OstroL on 2020-05-28 09:47:43 GMT from Poland)
Well, what would be Gnome 3 without one 3rd party app, Gnome Tweaks Tool? Nothing!
No one would ever use it.
60 • Usability Study of GNOME (by whoKnows on 2020-05-28 09:52:00 GMT from Switzerland)
https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/usability-gnome
https://fossforce.com/2016/03/usability-study-gnome/
http://www.freedos.org/jhall/opensource-usability/opensource-usability.pdf (Page 20)
Seems pretty green, even if there's always place for further improvements.
No DE is perfect or the most suitable for every task and for every user.
However, the people from Gnome 3 at least make some research.
61 • Can't customize Gnome myth, @52 and others (by Cousin IT on 2020-05-28 10:07:59 GMT from United States)
I don't have a dog in this hunt, (KDE boy myself,) but I hate to let a good fight go to waste.
These screenshots were taken in the space of less than 15 minutes on the same desktop, all while I was installing Devuan on another computer. Kept me entertained.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/164785504@N08/with/49944606176/
62 • Gnome 3 by OstroL (by whoKnows on 2020-05-28 10:11:34 GMT from Switzerland)
"Well, what would be Gnome 3 without one 3rd party app, Gnome Tweaks Tool? Nothing!"
Yup, exactly the way it should be.
Normal users spend time working and not on customizing.
All others who's only work is customizing use extensions and tweak-tools, or they write their own ones — exactly the same way as you would customize your Mac & Windows.
The basic difference between the Gnome and KDE is, that KDE comes with all those tools and extensions already integrated whereas Gnome lets the user adds them, just like Apple and Microsoft do.
63 • @58 Why don't you tolerate criticism? (by curious on 2020-05-28 12:03:56 GMT from Germany)
You like Gnome 3 - everyone understands that now. But you must accept that not everybody likes it. And you could be decent enough to accept that I am allowed to be dissatisfied and I am also allowed to make that known. I am in no way obliged to "keep it for myself".
You are of course allowed to ignore me - but stop telling me to swallow anything the Gnome developers want.
Usability *is* obviously personal. Gnome 3 just does not work for me. And that many Linux distros "adopted" it does not change that at all. Most of these distros probably just adopted Gnome 3 because its predecessor was the "standard".
And stop insinuating that I or others want to spend a lot of time customizing. I don't. I just want to have a desktop that fits my use case. If I must customize for that, I expect to be able to do that - once, and quickly, so that I can then get on with my work, instead of being constantly annoyed by sombody else's idea of how things should be done.
64 • Take it or let it be ... (by whoKnows on 2020-05-28 12:35:17 GMT from Switzerland)
There's a nice Swiss-German saying that fits extraordinarily well in Gnome 3 discussion: “Buur frisst, was Buur kennt”.
Better don't bother to make them try curry. Buureschüblig will do. That's all they know, and it's all they want to know.
Criticism ain't necessary.
Critique is.
65 • Gnome 3 fracas (by randomly generated entity on 2020-05-28 17:33:04 GMT from United States)
I see that a bit of a melee has broken out over Gnome 3. All I can add is agreement with those that bemoan the default lack of customization options. And even with tweaks or tweak-tool or extensions or whatever it's called this week, there's way more chance of something breaking with updates than with any other DE. Extensions are nice, and make Gnome much more usable for me, but they're essentially the AUR of the Gnome world. Anyone (apparently, judging by the quality/frivolousness of some) can and does get 'em added.
I understand that there are lots of folks that enjoy the Gnome 3 way, and that's fine. I wish they would stop with things like "anyone who actually uses their PC for work rather than customizing is fine with Gnome!" We're not. I do all my real work in KDE, because that desktop paradigm is most comfortable. For me. Not for you? Use Gnome. Be happy. Stop sniping.
I dare say that the non-Gnome lovers outnumber those that do (love it) though, based mostly on experience showing Linux to Windows refugees. Most computer users come from that place - that's just a fact, so it seems logical. Perhaps that changes now that we all inhabit a smartphone-infested post-apocalyptic hellscape.
66 • Gnome 3 (by Titus_Groan on 2020-05-28 20:14:31 GMT from New Zealand)
I must be one of those that use a computer as a tool, not a toy.
My only change to the distro defaults, is to change the wallpaper, or add a needed application or 2, if I make any change at all.
Some systems run KDE/Plasma, some Gnome, others Mate, Cinnamon, Xfce, LXDE or Enlightenment.
each to their own.
67 • Finnix 'documentation' (by mikef90000 on 2020-05-28 20:18:55 GMT from United States)
The distro use case sounded relevant, but I could not find any description of the toolset or how to use it on the web site. The iso booted to a command line, now what?
What am I missing?
68 • Gnome 3 Critique (by M.Z. on 2020-05-28 22:54:09 GMT from United States)
@56i
"Gnome which also comes with both design preconfigured, thankfully took the same approach to it like Apple & Microsoft..."
I actually see that as a significant problem.
@58
"Ask yourself why every important Linux Distro adopted exactly Gnome 3."
Well that actually brings up the other significant portion of my personal critique of Gnome 3. Why exactly do so many of the major Distros gravitate to it? To me the answer is fairly clear, it's all about the institutional momentum that Gnome had built up back in the Gnome 2 days when it had a fairly reasonable design. Now they have both a fairly odd design that goes against normal desktop paradigms & one that goes against the Linux customization paradigm as well.
Add all the factors together & we have a DE that won through shear weight of momentum & is a major face of the Linux desktop that is doing things very different & against the grain of both Linux & general PC usage & it looks to me like it reflects poorly on Linux as a whole.
To extend an example metaphor, I'd look to the US aerospace industry & the rockets that lunch near me. One principle case of locking yourself into one way of doing things would be Boeing, who has been locked for many years into a cost plus contracting way of looking at space launch. Now if you dig a bit into the budget numbers & delays going on with Boeing in their SLS moon rocket & smaller commercial crew program, you will see a very expensive boondoggle that is sucking down space funds while acting as though it should be the main face of the US space launch industry, because it was the trusted innovative face of American aerospace in the past.
As part of the back story to Boeing, it took over a smaller firm that my father actually worked at when Boeing was still a highly respected engineering firm & then it got a bunch of new managers that were stuck in a cost plus & monetization way of thinking. Although my father actually liked working for the smaller McDonnell Douglas firm, he told me he was proud when the US government ended their contract & caused the shut down of the local factory. They were more concerned with increasing their cost & driving up total profits than doing anything efficiently. According to several major news sources this way of thinking not only doomed McDonnell, it took over Boeing after they bought the company out. In a similar way I feel the Gnome 3 paradigm has taken over the Gnome project in the modern era & they keep winning over Distros they same way Boeing kept winning contracts, personal networking effects & sheer institutional momentum.
To me Gnome 3 being the face of so many distros is akin to the boondoggle that is SLS being the whole face of the US launch industry & effectively blotting out every thing that more innovative firms like SpaceX do. To my understanding most people who know a little about Linux think Debian, Fedora, & Ubuntu if they think about desktop Linux at all. If they go with they defaults, then they are bound to end up with Gnome 3 & if they are anything like what I think average users are, I think they will be left with a very bad impression if they try out the default version of any of the major distros. To me this institutional momentum that carries Gnome 3 is collectively shooting the Linux desktop in the foot.
To be fair I think a majority of likely Linux converts will do their homework & find something that works for them; however, I worry about the edge cases of folks that don't dig enough & end up writing off Linux because of a bad Gnome 3 experience. I think this could be solved by making a selection of desktops a far more clear option at all the major Distros, or even by Gnome meeting other DEs a bit more in the middle as I mentioned above. If Gnome 3 seemed like it were default by something other than sheer institutional momentum it would be a different story to me. Likewise if it were just an option & not default I think Gnome 3 would actually be a truly good thing for Linux as a whole. That being said, Gnome 3 as the default on so many prominent distros while going against the desktop grain & doing some things against the Linux grain is, to me, a major potential drag on the whole of desktop Linux.
Sorry if you disagree, but that's my take on Gnome 3, both why its big, & why its kinda bad for Linux.
69 • @68 (by randomly generated entity on 2020-05-29 00:10:35 GMT from United States)
Wow, that was extremely well stated. I could not possibly agree more with what you've expressed here.
If Linux on the desktop (if there's a future for "the desktop") is ever going to be a thing that more than a small percentage of people use, then Gnome stands in the way. If only Ubuntu had opted for KDE instead of Unity way back when...
70 • @62 Gnome (by mandog on 2020-05-29 08:20:15 GMT from United Kingdom)
62 • Gnome 3 by OstroL (by whoKnows on 2020-05-28 10:11:34 GMT from Switzerland)
"Well, what would be Gnome 3 without one 3rd party app, Gnome Tweaks Tool? Nothing!"
Really i would research before making comments Tweak-tool is a Gnome App.
You probably rave about Plasmoids and widgets for KDE they are the same as Gnome Extensions 3rd party apps to make KDE usable. Mate, Cinnamon, also do the same thing on a limited scale.
71 • Off-topic Part 1 (by whoKnows on 2020-05-29 09:25:30 GMT from Switzerland)
@ M.Z.
Thanks for the nice writing.
First the easy part: Why most Linux distributions are adopting Gnome 3?
Because they think of their users and of the future.
I can't speak of every single individual on this planet, but at least about those couple of thousands with which I've dealt with in the past ± 30 years.
They all don't care for the OS. OS is just an “Application starter”. They use computers for work, and they rarely need more than 3 ~ 5 applications, usually less. Customization is mainly reduced to changing the wallpaper or some “folders before files” option and such.
Example “Journalist”: Opens the writing applications, full screen view. Opens web browser, either full screen or 50 % web browser / 50 % text editor or some note taking application. If they make photos too, then some photo management application with basic editing functions will be used, also full screen. And that's it. No need to mini/maximize anything ever, no need for the start menu either — these few applications get opened, each on its own desktop and when the job is done, the lid gets closed. When they need to work again, the lid gets opened and all they need is already there. Restarting the applications is needed only if some update makes reboot unavoidable.
And the future ... Hardware is deciding which DE is better in long-term use, not the (recycling) users of yesterday. The HW development in a moment heads towards thinner/lighter/touchscreen, as in my example with “360 devices in tent-mode” above. Except the Gnome 3 and Plasma, no other DE/WM can manage it in a satisfactory way. Gnome 3 has the advantage of being more user-friendly and because there's no way around GTK3 applications.
Unity tried, but it was killed by the shortsighted users and it's no wonder that Canonical gave up. Just imagine how great it would be if you could simply open your start menu and click on “buy” MS Office or Photoshop, without even having to open the “Store”! But ... most Linux users are recyclers who never paid a coffee to some developer.
The only way for Linux Desktop to succeed would be if somebody like Microsoft buys Linux and makes it preinstalled OS on 95 % of all devices. That would have a nice side effect that people would also get all the applications they need, because every company would make the applications for the worldwide most used system.
However, that would result in “MicroLin” and would make it replacement for the Windows, which nobody needs. We already have the Windows and it can run any application worth starting, so why bother?
That's why “The Day of Linux Desktop” is even much less probable than “The Day of the Tentacle”.
Linux will stay what it is — Server and periphery OS and is fine so.
Linux today is made by the big companies and for the big companies. Without Apple, IBM, Microsoft ... They are the ones who are paying the development because they need it for themselves — their own servers run it and that's what you get if you rent-a-cloud-server.
72 • Off-topic 2nd part (by whoKnows on 2020-05-29 09:59:22 GMT from Switzerland)
The rest of the answer is more complicated and I could easily write a couple of hundreds of pages book, but it basically comes down to your very nice management example.
It's solely the people and their selfishness and greed who are responsible for all failures and ironically, for the success too.
Boeing's managers ... Do you know why the communism (not to be mixed up with socialism!) is completely impossible and will never happen? Because of the selfishness and greed. The reason for the failure of communism and the success of capitalism is the selfishness and greed of its “users”. The only thing that moves the world forward is the selfishness and greed. Boeing's managers. They want more money. They invest in development. Development makes new products. New products make more money. The communism can't become a success because of the selfishness and greed of individuals that make the system. If you take the list of the 10 richest people of the capitalist world and put them in an imaginary communist world, they would again be the 10 richest/most powerful people, just disguised under some under name.
Yep, “concerned with increasing their cost & driving up total profits” ... money makes the world go round ... the selfishness and greed makes the world go round. For good, as well as for bad.
73 • @ 2 (by OstroL on 2020-05-29 10:01:49 GMT from Poland)
"The basic difference between the Gnome and KDE is, that KDE comes with all those tools and extensions already integrated whereas Gnome lets the user adds them, just like Apple and Microsoft do."
The thing is, without the Gnome Tweak Tool, you can't configure/manipulate them. So, without such a "settings" tool, Gnome is nothing. The vanilla Gnome is pretty ugly, and has too many click actions.
(Btw, not discussing KDE or Apple or Microsoft.)
74 • Gnome and other dirty words (by Cousin IT on 2020-05-29 10:19:58 GMT from United States)
@68 "Why exactly do so many of the major Distros gravitate to it?" Let's say I'm the IT guy setting up 50, 60,100 seats for my company. Say the users will be running a few apps. Ten? Twelve? That would be a lot. So I bring them to the Gnome desktop. Here's how: Hit the "Windows" key. On the left panel, click on LibreOffice Writer. That's it. Need to switch between apps? NO sweat. Hit the "Windows" key. Click on your app and it will come to the front and focus. Need two apps maximized? No problem. Hit the "Windows" key. Click on the bottom desktop shown on the right. Same again. Open your app. Back and forth same way. Not enough room for all your apps on the dock? As you go, when you hit the "Windows" key, all your frequently used apps will be front and center, very hard to miss.
How is this so difficult? How is this any more difficult than clicking the Start Menu, mousing to the category "Office," Find LibreOffice Writer, or any of the other things one does in KDE, or XFCE, or. . . Do I want my users to be re-configuring the desktop? Why? These are users at workstations., not playstations. Corporate users are not geeks, and If they were, they would already know what to do. I believe the problem you and most others have with Gnome is that it does not behave or look like Windows, where you came from. Old dogs, new tricks.
@68, "Now they have both a fairly odd design that goes against normal desktop paradigms & one that goes against the Linux customization paradigm as well." Go back and look at my post (@61) where I linked photos of customized Gnome, three different desktop configurations in less than 15 minutes. I can customize a Gnome desktop in about the same time it takes to do my KDEs, of this XFCE I'm working on. You say that Gnome is "odd". By odd I think you mean different. Yes, it is. So what?
@69 "Gnome stands in the way. If only Ubuntu had opted for KDE instead of Unity way back when... " So Linux would have done better as Windows Jr.? Perhaps! I just did my spiel on how easy it is to access and use apps in Gnome, but here's the problem. Those apps showing on the dock, or the menu, or wherever, are not what the majority of people need or want. That's what holds Linux back.
By the way, the KDE of those days was pretty much a sh*t show, in my humble opinion.
I was just doing something with XFCE which worked best if I installed Compiz, and it brought memories. Back when Compiz first came out, the Linux forums were full of people claiming the superiority of the Linux desktop because they could spin cubes and do wobbly windows with much fewer resources. (Computer resources that is, not the time and effort spent on baubles.) The year of the Linux desktop couldn't be far, or so they thought. Well, you still can't spin cubes or wobble windows on Windows or Mac. I wonder why?
@63, "instead of being constantly annoyed by somebody else's idea of how things should be done" You seem to be annoyed just at the idea that someone else thinks things should or could be done differently. Now that is annoying as hell, but no one's forcing me to read your cry of pain. No one's force feeding you Gnome either. For what it's worth, Gnome is not my desktop of choice, not because I hate it, but because I prefer something else.
The good news is that the Year of the Linux Desktop will soon be here, available to the majority of PC users. It will be on Windows 10. Gui Linux will soon run on Windows without any hacking. And to be nice, Microsoft will be making their Edge browser available for Linux. Ain't that a kick in the you-know-whats?
75 • “Focus on the Essential” (F. A. Porsche) (by whoKnows on 2020-05-29 10:33:11 GMT from Switzerland)
@ OstroL
Gnome 3 is based on “focus on the essential” (F. A. Porsche)
The main purpose of an operating system is starting applications (== tool to work with) and not to tweak it (== toy to work on). Gnome 3 has almost all needed settings for efficient work included (font-tweeking is missing — might be necessary in some rare situations).
Since the user has to adopt himself to the system and not the other way round, the user has to learn how to use his/her system.
Too many action clicks is not the best argument since the user could use keyboard shortcuts to accomplish it under “modern look” and it doesn't have any more action clicks if “classic” is used.
That is exactly the point why I ever started Gnome 3 trolling topic — some people complain about too many click actions, but at the same time, they reject using “classic” that comes preconfigured and selectable from the login screen.
76 • Bash (by Francesco Turco on 2020-05-29 11:14:54 GMT from Italy)
I didn't know about the "command" shell builtin. Thanks for the tip!
Basically, I redefined the "rm" command with a bash function that warns me to use "trash-put" instead. But sometimes I need to skip the trashcan. In those cases, I can run "command rm".
77 • More on the Gnome debate... (by randomly generated entity on 2020-05-29 19:23:22 GMT from United States)
Dedoimedo, with whom I don't often agree, weighs in (again) on the Gnome desktop in his latest review, that of Fedora 32. His criteria for what makes a good or bad distro is up for debate, as are his opinions at large, but I figured I'd offer up a somewhat respected tech reviewer's two cents on the subject.
To sum up, no, not everyone (I'm being extra generous here) wants or needs to adapt to the Gnome way, which is significantly different from what the vast majority of computer users have ever experienced. Not even those that use their computers for "work". And furthermore, the Gnome paradigm alienates potential new users, yet it's the de facto face of Linux.
@74 When Unity arrived in 2010, KDE was at 4.4, which was much improved from the admittedly not ready for prime time earlier releases in the 4 series. Compared to what Gnome and Unity were at that point in time? KDE 4.4 was rock solid...
78 • @77, Gnome (by Cousin IT on 2020-05-30 01:35:07 GMT from United States)
@77, Gnome alienates potential "old" new users simply because they are used to something else and are not amenable to change. For those who are, Gnome is as or easier to use than the other desktops. For those who, like me, tinker, it is quite configurable. The big guys like Red Hat, SUSE and Ubuntu are going after the enterprise workstations and servers. It works for them. For the home user there is so much choice. I don't see what the carping is all about.
Linux usage in the wild has been steady for many years, regardless of what Gnome or others do. It's not going to shoot up suddenly because Ubuntu and Fedora change desktops. to paraphrase the despised Mr. Ballmer: Applications! Applications! Applications!. Funny, because Linux has become the darling of developers, and it is now offered in Windows.
I began using Mint in 2006 with the Barbara version of 2006. It used Gnome 2, which was rock solid. Still is. (Mate) I chose Mint over Ubuntu because my situation require WiFi and Mint included ndiswrapper, so I could copy and paste the XP driver. Ubuntu did not so it was catch-22, you had to be connected to connect. Ran with mint until the end of Gnome 2. KDE 3 was too gadgety and gaudy for me, although PCLOS itself was excellent. I seriously looked at KDE 5 after they made the plasmoid-widget thing usable. I like what it has become, and I use it now. Unity was, like Windows 8, a failed attempt at convergence.
I only use Gnome distros occasionally, but I have taken the time to learn it, and I frankly don't see what all the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth is about. This old dog enjoys learning new tricks.
79 • @78 (by randomly generated entity on 2020-05-30 02:44:30 GMT from United States)
I too use Gnome occasionally (I have lots of distros installed, 5 of 'em - Ubuntu, Fedora, CentOS, Solus and Void, using Gnome), and am able to bend it to my will using dash to dock and a few other extensions. But I find nautilus to be extremely limited compared to dolphin, a pattern that holds true with most of the Gnome vs. KDE app comparisons. So, something as basic and necessary to getting actual work done - file management - is easier/more comprehensive using the KDE app. Even most Gnome fans would agree that dolphin beats nautilus.
Also, painting anyone who finds the tablet-y goodness of Gnome lacking as sticks in the mud is just not fair. It's fine that you and lots of others have embraced Gnome, and trained yourselves to be efficient therein. But again, why should a refugee from Windows have to deal with something so completely unfamiliar? Not saying Linux should cater to such folks, just that it's strange to have arrived at a place where such a bizarre UI is so often the first one the potential new user will likely encounter.
I'm not expecting or even hoping for the "year of Linux on the desktop" or anything like that anymore, but it would be nice if non-geeky people looking to use their computers after years of comfort with Windows 7, then seeing what a train wreck Windows 10 is in so many ways, could more easily encounter a Linux that wasn't so different from what they're used to. Us Linux folks can and will tinker with whatever DE and make it work, but these new folks shouldn't be expected to, not at first anyway.
I don't hate Gnome. It's quite attractive actually, and I don't have any issues with people who find it to be everything they've ever dreamed of in a UI. There's room in Linux for everyone, right? My main point is simply that the big, consumer/Joe Schmoe-facing distros (basically Ubuntu) would be a whole lot more likely to ensnare new users if they went with Plasma, Cinnamon, or even Xfce rather than Gnome.
Oh, and just as a final, neither here nor there kinda thing that illustrates KDE vs. Gnome app quality, if only in a largely frivolous and unnecessary way. Compare kpat to aisleriot... The latter looks and feels like something from the Windows 3.1 era.
80 • @77 (by Andy Prough on 2020-05-30 03:19:51 GMT from United States)
> Dedoimedo, with whom I don't often agree, weighs in (again) on the Gnome desktop in his latest review, that of Fedora 32. His criteria for what makes a good or bad distro is up for debate, as are his opinions at large, but I figured I'd offer up a somewhat respected tech reviewer's two cents on the subject.
Yeah, he called it a tidal wave of regressions and problems. Very bad review.
81 • @79 Train wrecks? (by Cousin IT on 2020-05-30 03:32:13 GMT from United States)
@79, For KDE, first thing I do is install Nemo and Pluma, or Thunar and Mousepad. Same with Gnome, although Gedit is not bad. For some things, neither Nautilus nor Dolphin suffice. Again, most users will be fine with Nautilus or Dolphin. You and I are not normal users. You say you have 5 distros with a DE you don't even like. Is that normal? I have several distros, and a bunch of VMs. I really only need one or two. Is that normal?
It seems to be a common habit to justify one's choices by belittling others'. What train wreck? I use Windows 10 daily, and it is an excellent OS. If you are counting on refugees, they'll be scarce. For my needs, there are many things better done on Windows. I dual-boot on a laptop. On both desktop and laptop, I keep a Windows 10 VM fired up when running Linux. Works great. Rock-steady.
82 • @79, Applications (by Cousin IT on 2020-05-30 03:35:57 GMT from United States)
@79, Was not comparing Gnome and KDE apps. I was talking about the availability of apps in Linux vs Windows. (or Mac)
83 • @81 (by randomly generated entity on 2020-05-30 08:03:46 GMT from United States)
I suspect that you're in the minority with your opinion on file managers and text editors in Linux. Most Linux users I've interacted with, and informal polling on LQ, etc. favor dolphin, though I often resort to mc for root stuff. I've never really asked people about basic text editors, but kate is quite powerful and intuituve, with UI elements consistent with the KDE aesthetic. As for Windows 10? All I can say is to each their own. Enjoy it...between reboots anyway. Have you installed that latest 3GB+ update yet?
As for software in general, I'm lucky enough to be able to do everything I need to earn a living (the small part of it that requires a PC) with Linux tools. No need for Photoshop or Office or any other proprietary stuff. I'd probably be doing VM's if I truly needed those. But you're right, lots of stuff is only available for Windows (or Mac I guess). I hope that changes.
Yes, we're both Distrowatch readers/commenters, which makes us weirdos to begin with. I happen to enjoy staying informed of what's what in the Linux world by keeping 19 distros installed, updated, and running smoothly, with all the forum reading and googling that requires. Call it an addiction! I've had less healthy ones...
84 • @83, normal users (by Cousin IT on 2020-05-30 09:21:49 GMT from United States)
I've installed a a few of more distros for average Joe/Joan. LXD or XFCE were favorites of mine for the purpose. Here's how it might go: Here's the bottom panel. Look at these icons. Here's you browser. Here's a second browser in case you have problems. Here's your movie player. Here's your photo app. Here's your torrent downloader. Here's Skype, or whatever messenger. Here's an editor in case you want to write and save something. Here's the place where you keep all your stuff. Click on the icon and you'll see folders to keep your torrents and movies, your pics, your documents, your downloads. Double-click on them and they will open. When you see this little thing come up, click on it and update. Enter your password when asked and hit 'enter'. Go in peace son/daughter. Check with me in a few months." Not once did anyone express a preference for Dolphin over Nautilus.
I reboot my PCs on a regular basis. Have no need to keep them running. The windows "3 gig" upgrade is a bit less than you get from Arch in that time. It downloads in the background, with low priority, and asks when it can be installed. Then it does take up a bit of time to get done. In my case I download the ISO and keep it on a USB stick, because I still do a few installs and upgrades here and there.
85 • Gnome 3 vs. Windows 7 (by whoKnows on 2020-05-30 09:55:31 GMT from Switzerland)
dedoimedo is ... not any good measurement on how the things should be done. His reviews are having some very good points on the one side, but also some completely ridiculous ones on the other. And sometimes he just negates the physics ...
Once he was complaining about missing “folders before files” function in Gnome, which is one check mark in settings. When he got a mail explaining to him that its there, cheap excuses came like “yes, but if I move X to Y, than one can't see the Z”. Well ... don't move anything anywhere in the first place and if, put the check mark first and then move it and it'll work. NO — if it ain't his way — it's broke.
Font contrast and ergonomics ... yes, he's right that distros often bring bad font contrast, but if you deal professionally with design, you'll also notice the problem. It depends on your screen.
75 % black on 10 % white is friendlier to the eyes on high-quality, 1:3000 VA or IPS panel contrast ratio, whereas you need 100–0 % on a low-quality TN panel. No way developer can make it right.
Or his “battery usage testing” ... never mind. :) :) :)
Some other things, like language locales are regularly a reason to complain which is wrong, since it's a matter of personal preferences. Nobody I know and me included would use OS without a localization.
By the way, I wonder what does he installs for his grandma ... Bosnian, Croatian or Serbian? I doubt that the old lady speaks “English International”. ;)
“To sum up, no, not everyone (I'm being extra generous here) wants or needs to adapt to the Gnome way ...”
Not everyone wants — is legit. Nobody forces you to use anything. Don't adopt — don't use — don't complain.
And yes — everybody MUST learn and adapt him/herself to the product that he/she is using.
Driving caterpillar, truck, van or racing car ... anyone will bring you from your house door to the bakery and you'll get the bread at the end, but “the experience” is gonna be pretty different and you'll have to learn and adapt to the differences. You'll change the direction with those levers or with wheels, change the gears manually via levers or electronically via switches on the backside of the steering wheel and eventually get differential lever to flip over... You understand, I hope.
User always has to adapt on what it is using. Be it GNOME or cooking pan/pot ... short handle, long handle, one handle, two handles ... You can't handle them all exactly the same way and you can't expect them to adapt themselves to you, nor you can expect somebody produces them the way you wanna use them.
Speaking about “Windows 7 users”, are we talking about a bunch of retards or about intelligent people? Namely, Gnome 3 DEFAULT start menu (and XFCE) is more efficient than KDE or Windows 7 — it takes fewer clicks to find the application.
Windows 7 vs. XFCE Whisker vs. Gnome 3 Classic
https://ibb.co/LkRffFw
https://ibb.co/t4sMwjK
https://ibb.co/ZxNYpYy
https://ibb.co/31v8KQG
https://ibb.co/1QBqJTs
86 • still prefer the good old boys (by fonz on 2020-05-30 10:33:00 GMT from Indonesia)
i dont really mind about GUI stuff, but what really bugs me is that 'modern' is too simplified for me. i prefer a chaotic menu bar, because most of them have handy hints about shortcuts. kind of drives me crazy when i have to watch over someone using a browser like they would on a dumbsmartdumbphonedumb (lul). hamburger bars (or whatever theyre called) are often too simple or clunky imho. most DEs often have built in hotkey managers, so im fine with anything really.
i usually like to ask, 'why not invest some time to remember some shortcuts? most of them work everywhere'. some reply with 'not worth it'. until after i show them what remembering ~10ish shortcuts could do. they way i see it, people just learning how to use computers are mainly coming from phones, with no desire to adapt...
87 • dedoimedo (by whoKnows on 2020-05-30 12:13:40 GMT from Switzerland)
What I personally think of dedoimedo's reviews is easily shown in 3 screenshots:
dedoimedo on Fedora 32:
“Samba sharing — not at all! First, I thought this was because I used hostname rather than IP address. But then, that didn't work either. I was trying to connect to a Windows 10 host, so there should be no issues with Samba protocol versions or anything. Even so, I tried to change both the mix/max client and server version in the /etc/samba/smb.conf file, but nothing helped. Similarly, my Samba printer wasn't detected.”
Nope, no hacks necessary. You can see my full (default) file on the SS.
https://ibb.co/w4Pbtg1
https://ibb.co/djMX4cj
https://ibb.co/MVrTJq3
Maybe it wouldn't be bad if he calls somebody to fix his network or shows him “how to”. Yes, connecting is not as easy as in Windows and it takes some basic networking knowledge, but it works flawlessly since years.
Speaking about “flawlessly”, there was a samba bug once before.
https://ask.fedoraproject.org/t/unable-to-mount-samba-share-on-fedora-31-which-fedora-30-windows-has-no-problem-with/4077
My Canon NW printer showed up immediately upon install, without me doing anything.
88 • Linux is not Windows (by dragonmouth on 2020-05-30 12:30:23 GMT from United States)
Regarding all these "Which distro or DE is more Windows-like?" - who cares. You don't hear Windows refugees to OS/X whining that OS/X is not more like Windows and that it must be made more so. Fruitco would just give them the middle digit in response. Linux is not Windows. It's an entirely different O/S. If you go into a catatonic shock when you are deprived of Windows' look & feel and functionality, keep using Windows because Linux is not for you.
As far as the DEs go, there are over 70 of them for Linux. None of them are universally best or universally worst. If you are thoroughly familiar with a DE, you like it and it works for you, great, use it to your heart's content. But don't be calling those that use other DEs backward, stupid, sticks in the mud. Other DEs work for other people. Who died and made you the Final Arbiter of all things Linux?!
89 • Not like Windows (by Friar Tux on 2020-05-30 13:38:03 GMT from Canada)
@88 (dragonmouth) Sorry, I have to disagree the this one. The very fact that Linux Mint/Cinnamon was 'just like Windows' was what helped The Wife and me to switch to Linux. We were both in the middle of something important (work-wise) when Windows bricked our laptops (about half a day apart - mine first). I had fiddled with various Linux distros and Mint seemed the most stable. I switched us both to Mint/Cinnamon and we were able to go right back to work because everything was exactly where we needed it to be and worked how we needed it to work (lost time:- about two hours). AND we haven't had even the slightest issue in four whole years. (By the way, this is coming from an old Windows fanboy.)
90 • @ #88 (by Tiny Tint-II on 2020-05-30 18:15:21 GMT from Canada)
In a 100% accord to your statement
"If you go into a catatonic shock when you are deprived of Windows' look & feel and functionality, keep using Windows because Linux is not for you.
As far as the DEs go, there are over 70 of them for Linux. None of them are universally best or universally worst. If you are thoroughly familiar with a DE, you like it and it works for you, great, use it to your heart's content. But don't be calling those that use other DEs backward, stupid, sticks in the mud. Other DEs work for other people. Who died and made you the Final Arbiter of all things Linux?! "
I only prefer The power of tint, to be more precisely tin2.
I would like to repeat dragonmouth's statements:
1. If you go into a catatonic shock when you are deprived of Windows' look & feel and functionality, keep using Windows because Linux is not for you.
2. If you are thoroughly familiar with a DE, you like it and it works for you, great, use it to your heart's content. But don't be calling those that use other DEs backward, stupid, sticks in the mud.
Just one more time,
I only prefer The power of tint, to be more precisely tin2.
91 • Other Thoughts (by M.Z. on 2020-05-30 21:57:07 GMT from United States)
@71
"OS is just an “Application starter”"
I'd argue that the OS, and more specifically the DE is very much an all purpose 'application manager' & a space for both work & even play if you are talking PC rather than office workstation. It's worth noting that if you just want to get work done & are moving onto a vanilla version of Gnome you will have a major degree of learning curve that will hinder productivity.
@71" They use computers for work, and they rarely need more than 3 ~ 5 applications, usually less"
That is not at all the case with me & my coworkers doing geographic mapping work. For my part I feel my professional productivity could potentially go up if I had the same degree of settings control & window management options in Windows 10 (both remote & local copies), as I do in KDE & to a lesser extent Cinnamon. I'm always transferring data back & forth between applications, and I always have a minimum of about 7 applications open so I can stay updated on multiple channels, find work orders, examine prints, & map out stuff from the prints. And those 7 applications are just in my remote desktop, not on my local OS that doesn't have access to the proper applications & remote geodata.
@74
"...I can customize a Gnome desktop in about the same time it takes to do my KDEs..."
Yes I likely could as well if I wanted to train myself in the Gnome way, but that doesn't help the 'just dive in' edge case I mentioned above. If you know you know, but if you don't Gnome 3 could be an ugly place to land on as the default of so many big name Distros.
@72
"The only thing that moves the world forward is the selfishness and greed."
That is off topic indeed, but I'll bite. looking at the just successful SpaceX launch is an indicator to me that that is not always the case. I think Boeing went from being a great engineering firm to what it is today because money mangers took over the firm & took an attitude very much like what you describe. It's the old US libertarian 'greed is good' mantra that makes quarterly profit decisions over long term vision & bigger accomplishments. This is juxtaposed to SpaceX where very technically competent & driven people have come together based on a vision of cost effective space travel & technological progress. They both provided needed competition to Boeing, but they also did it in a very cost effective manner because they tried to do things the right & efficient way. Part of the hope there is to get future opportunities for other space travel related contracts & not just to milk the one chance you see directly in front of you. This is because doing things a better way will open up more doors in the long run. I think personal initiative & fair profit can be a part of a better vision of capitalism than the one you described, but it involves looking past old thinking & quarterly dividends and thinking about big picture things like community & progress.
And more on topic, the Boeing thing to me was a bit more about the connects that Gnome has with big name Distros. To me it seems reminiscent of the way Boeing SLS contracting is being done. It's all about preexisting connections & lobbying. I know there is less of a profit motive & more of a vision thing driving Gnome, but the way they remain relevant to me looks very much like the same kind of momentum & connection type things keeping Boeing at the centre of so many big things.
92 • @91 (by Simon the Magician on 2020-05-30 23:48:58 GMT from United States)
"That is not at all the case with me & my coworkers doing geographic mapping work." Then you and your coworkers can and probably would choose something else. It's that simple. That does not negate Gnome as being suitable for the enterprise. Google the fallacy of composition.
93 • On Thoughts ... (by whoKnows on 2020-05-31 07:07:45 GMT from Switzerland)
@ M.Z.
As of our Off-topic topic, we are both right. The difference is only that you concentrate on much shorter time fragment. The whole process is a (very) long-term process which sneaks in very, very slowly and also, people that are involved in that process change, evolve over time. They come and go and the new once replace them, until they themselves get replaced ... some a “better”, some a “worse” ... But, the very basic motivation is here to stay and it didn't change since the old Egypt. It all evolves and it all repeats in circles.
In your example, less efficient structures (which were once before more efficient) got replaced with more efficient once, which will become inefficient over time and again get replaced with a more efficient once at some future point.
As of “arguing” about nuances in terminology “Application starter” or “Application Manager” — it's irrelevant (and BTW, it comes to the same). The point is — people think forward and not backward. If you study graphic arts, your lecturer will say: “Over the next 2 years, you'll learn on how to master the Adobe Graphics Suite ...”. Another one will lecture you the MS Office Suite, the next one... One day, you'll get your certificate and a job in advertising agency and you'll become a part of a team. You'll be asked to provide a .indd file on which other people will work too. It doesn't help anything that one could make the layout with Scribus or Publisher if InDesign is requested. That's what you needed to pass your exams, that's what you need in a collaborative work ... Gaming is sometimes also work and not just fun. Some people earn a lot of money with it, but then they must play, if they feel like doing it or not, because it's their work. And that all brings us to “forward thinking”. The huge majority thinks in a way: X has to be done and for that, I need tool Y. Y runs on Z. Nobody sane starts with: I'll install SomeLin and then I'll see which application A, B, or C is a better replacement for D. It doesn't matter if the GIMP is better than Photoshop or if it's a good replacement — you'll get judged on your knowledge of Photoshop and it is what everybody else you're working with will be using. If you are a home user, like the most people here on Distrowatch, than you can afford yourself “backward thinking” and searching for the replacements just to be able to get your favorite OS usable, however that's not the normal case. No matter how, the fact stays that it's the application one needs, what decides on which OS will/can be installed.
And as of Gnome, I think everything important has already been said. User needs to learn his/her tools, not everybody is able or willing to do so and not all the people have the same kind of needs and do their work in the same way. Considering the latest HW development trends (“360” devices), it's simply plain wrong to judge the efficiency of a DE solely on mouse/keyboard usage and it's always very wrong judging it the selfish “dedoimedo way” — I'm using it that way and nobody else is using it different — it must be so 'cause it's better. As I already explained above, it doesn't help anything if Cinnamon is “better” than Gnome 3 when using mouse and keyboard if I'm using it with a pen.
After all said, I just hope that those who are quick on judging, criticizing, crying, trolling ... about something, about anything, will start thinking different in the future, thinking about some things before they write and not only take a “I do it that way — the rest is wrong” selfish approach/viewpoint, since there are always many other factors as well as needs of others to be taken into the considerations/judgements. Nobody forces anybody to use anything — take it or leave it — but don't always only complain about it.
Thanks for the nice conversation and enjoy using whatever works best for you!
94 • Re: Other Thoughts (by M.Z. on 2020-05-31 23:26:08 GMT from United States)
@92
"That does not negate Gnome as being suitable for the enterprise."
Indeed, & Gnome 3 on RHEL might just be the only Linux combo I've seen in the wild for use in an office. On the other hand the insistence I remember Red Hat had with their devs supporting Gnome Classic mode & the drive to have common systems while still needing to support more complex use cases indicate to me that Gnome may well not be the best DE for wide enterprise deployment, especially in default form.
@93
"They come and go and the new once replace them, until they themselves get replaced ..."
Thant could lead to a rather depressing circle. I prefer to hope we can learn from the mistakes of the past & create new & better solutions in the future. The key is to be mindful of the problems with human nature as we construct such solutions.
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| • Issue 1083 (2024-08-12): TrueNAS 24.04.2 "SCALE", Linux distros for smartphones, Redox OS introduces web server, PipeWire exposes battery drain on Linux, Canonical updates kernel version policy |
| • Issue 1082 (2024-08-05): Linux Mint 22, taking snapshots of UFS on FreeBSD, openSUSE updates Tumbleweed and Aeon, Debian creates Tiny QA Tasks, Manjaro testing immutable images |
| • Issue 1081 (2024-07-29): SysLinuxOS 12.4, OpenBSD gain hardware acceleration, Slackware changes kernel naming, Mint publishes upgrade instructions |
| • Issue 1080 (2024-07-22): Running GNU/Linux on Android with Andronix, protecting network services, Solus dropping AppArmor and Snap, openSUSE Aeon Desktop gaining full disk encryption, SUSE asks openSUSE to change its branding |
| • Issue 1079 (2024-07-15): Ubuntu Core 24, hiding files on Linux, Fedora dropping X11 packages on Workstation, Red Hat phasing out GRUB, new OpenSSH vulnerability, FreeBSD speeds up release cycle, UBports testing new first-run wizard |
| • Issue 1078 (2024-07-08): Changing init software, server machines running desktop environments, OpenSSH vulnerability patched, Peppermint launches new edition, HardenedBSD updates ports |
| • Issue 1077 (2024-07-01): The Unity and Lomiri interfaces, different distros for different tasks, Ubuntu plans to run Wayland on NVIDIA cards, openSUSE updates Leap Micro, Debian releases refreshed media, UBports gaining contact synchronisation, FreeDOS celebrates its 30th anniversary |
| • Issue 1076 (2024-06-24): openSUSE 15.6, what makes Linux unique, SUSE Liberty Linux to support CentOS Linux 7, SLE receives 19 years of support, openSUSE testing Leap Micro edition |
| • Issue 1075 (2024-06-17): Redox OS, X11 and Wayland on the BSDs, AlmaLinux releases Pi build, Canonical announces RISC-V laptop with Ubuntu, key changes in systemd |
| • Issue 1074 (2024-06-10): Endless OS 6.0.0, distros with init diversity, Mint to filter unverified Flatpaks, Debian adds systemd-boot options, Redox adopts COSMIC desktop, OpenSSH gains new security features |
| • Issue 1073 (2024-06-03): LXQt 2.0.0, an overview of Linux desktop environments, Canonical partners with Milk-V, openSUSE introduces new features in Aeon Desktop, Fedora mirrors see rise in traffic, Wayland adds OpenBSD support |
| • Issue 1072 (2024-05-27): Manjaro 24.0, comparing init software, OpenBSD ports Plasma 6, Arch community debates mirror requirements, ThinOS to upgrade its FreeBSD core |
| • Issue 1071 (2024-05-20): Archcraft 2024.04.06, common command line mistakes, ReactOS imports WINE improvements, Haiku makes adjusting themes easier, NetBSD takes a stand against code generated by chatbots |
| • Issue 1070 (2024-05-13): Damn Small Linux 2024, hiding kernel messages during boot, Red Hat offers AI edition, new web browser for UBports, Fedora Asahi Remix 40 released, Qubes extends support for version 4.1 |
| • Full list of all issues |
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| Random Distribution | 
TrueNAS
TrueNAS CORE (previously known as FreeNAS) is a free and Open Source Network-Attached Storage (NAS) operating system that supports file, block and object storage. TrueNAS CORE is FreeBSD based and is a community-supported branch of the TrueNAS project, sponsored by iXsystems. It also has a commercial branch called TrueNAS Enterprise and a free and HyperConverged storage solution called TrueNAS SCALE. The TrueNAS SCALE branch is based on the Debian Linux distribution.
Status: Active
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TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite
Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
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| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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