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1 • STAR (by Andy Prough on 2020-04-27 01:09:19 GMT from United States)
This is a very interesting distro, I had not heard of it before, thanks for the review! Sounds a lot like antiX in that it has lightweight window managers and is non-systemd.
I tried BunsenLabs recently and really liked it, but its use of systemd seems counter to its goal to be a minimal distro without bloat. STAR should fill that role nicely.
2 • Kid friendly distro (by Tim on 2020-04-27 01:50:38 GMT from United States)
I know of one kid friendly distro, which is called Lliurex. It is produced by the Valencia, Spain school system and the infantil version is worth a look to see what kid friendly programs there are.
On any Linux distro, GCompris and Tux Paint have been must haves for my kids
3 • Only base Ubuntu 20.04 will have 5-year LTS? (by R O on 2020-04-27 02:57:36 GMT from United States)
What's with all the other DE's only having 3-year support? How about if one gets the base version, then "add on" one of the other DE's? We used be able to do that a few versions back, as I recall, not so?
4 • 64 vs 32 bit at home, and 32 bit distros (by TheTKS on 2020-04-27 02:58:55 GMT from Canada)
64 bit on all home desktops and laptops since 2007.
I don't use i#86 CPUs on my computers (something I use in my house might), but since the article comments on one of the OSs I use, I got curious and decided to check the websites for the rest I use at least occasionally (except Xubuntu), in case I'm ever asked to help somebody with older hardware.
OpenBSD: references i386 on their Hardware Platforms page, but clicking through shows
"Supported hardware: Processors - All CPUs compatible with the Intel 80486 or better, with Intel-compatible hardware floating point support should work."
Slackware: oldest supported versions packages available back to i486, per my update notification emails.
Puppies: even though the disros which two main Puppy distros (currently available on their download page) are compatible with are Slackware 14.1 (Slacko 6.3.2) and Ubuntu 14.04 (Tahrpup), it looks like these are i686.
From puppylinux.com Supported Architecture page:
"Puppy will not (likely) run on an old 486, or even an old PI. A PII will struggle with a modern Puppy. Some later PIII and Athlon machines should cope... Since around 2009 Puppy’s kernels have been compiled with Pentium Pro support making the operating system “i686”. Most software is compiled i686 as well."
TinyCore: didn't find an answer
TKS
5 • 32-bit vs 64-bit CPUs (by Wedge009 on 2020-04-27 03:13:14 GMT from Australia)
I think part of the collective confusion about i386, etc, terminology is that Intel's CPU code names diverged from the marketing names. i386 may also be treated as being synonymous with 32-bit x86-based processors because it was the first to introduce IA-32 instructions.
If I understand it correctly (and I could be wrong):
i386 --> Intel 80386
i486 --> Intel 80486
i586 --> Intel P5 (Pentium)
i686 --> Intel P6 (Pentium Pro/II/III)
Netburst-based Pentium 4s were mostly 32-bit x86-based processors as well, 64-bit instructions were only introduced in the last generation. I recall Intel's first 64-bit processor attempt was IA-64, or the now-defunct Itanium. They eventually followed AMD's lead in adding 64-bit extensions to existing x86 instructions.
As for the poll, I still have working 32-bit only as well as the 64-bit generation of Pentium 4s, as well as the 32-bit only K7-based Athlon XPs from AMD. But I rarely use them any more (and older CPUs are probably dead, or lack working supporting hardware) - the oldest CPU I am still actively running right now is a Penryn-based Intel Core 2, and I'm considering replacing that one soon (it's over 12 years old and so probably deserves retirement).
I recently retired K10-based AMD Phenom IIs despite still being otherwise-viable processors for my needs, mainly because of the lack of AVX instructions (the Core 2 lacks AVX too, but it's in a laptop rather than a desktop).
For the related topic of whether or not it's worth supporting older CPUs, I think there is some worth, but of course it's hard to justify support for them when the cost-to-benefit ratio increases beyond what developers are willing to commit to. Also it may sometimes be the case that the willingness to support is there but the hardware being available for testing is not.
6 • 32 bit Tiny Core (by 32 bit Tiny Core on 2020-04-27 03:21:40 GMT from Singapore)
@4
According to Tiny Core's FAQ (http://www.tinycorelinux.net/faq.html#req),
"The minimum cpu is i486DX (486 with a math processor)."
7 • 80386 and below - ELKS (by Andy Prough on 2020-04-27 05:52:45 GMT from United States)
80386 is actually one of the most recent chips that ELKS will not on, from my understanding. ELKS stands for embedded Linux kernel subset. They have a GitHub page where you can get the code, and there are some YouTube videos of it running on 80286 and 8086 type processors.
8 • There's always Gentoo... (by Door on 2020-04-27 06:09:39 GMT from United States)
Don't take my word for it, someone actually went and did it: https://yeokhengmeng.com/2018/01/make-the-486-great-again/
He cheated a bit. The CPU is actually an AMD 5x86, which is a 486-architecture core internally and fits in a 486 socket, but is about the fastest possible thing you can use and still say "i486" with a straight face. He also had 64MB of RAM, an absolutely ungodly amount by the standards of the early 90s, and used a compactflash card on an adapter instead of a period-appropriate hard drive. He also did the compiling on a modern machine.
It still takes more than ten minutes to boot, for all that. If you were willing to put (a lot...) more time into it, you could probably tune it further by hacking more things out of the kernel config and USE flags. Given the memory pressure, I bet for at least some software you'd come out ahead telling GCC to optimize for code size rather than execution speed, especially if you were using an original hard disk.
The oldest machine I have in running order is actually an 80286. No Linux ever ran on that, it was 386+ from the very beginning. I have various 32-bit CPUs sitting in an old parts box, but no working motherboards for any of them. =(
9 • 32-bit or 64-bit CPUs (by Nicola on 2020-04-27 06:36:29 GMT from Italy)
All my PCs have 64bit CPU while my father's one is 32bit, it's a Pentium4: for his needs is perfect and using Slackware-current updated up to yesterday.
10 • Oldest pc (by Steph on 2020-04-27 09:14:36 GMT from France)
My oldest PC is a 64 bit i3 with windows 7.
The processor was released in 2010.
11 • Ubuntu “mini.iso” Minimal Install .ISO for 20.04 LTS (HTTPS) (by Bob Wiley on 2020-04-27 09:19:54 GMT from Canada)
= Ubuntu “mini.iso” Minimal Install .ISO for 20.04 LTS (HTTPS)
With this week’s release of the new version of Ubuntu Linux, there’s been a change in location for the “mini.iso” file. Rather than copy/paste the solution here, please see the following paste on Pastebin: https://pastebin.com/hhSasirL
12 • Oldest PC (by Daniel on 2020-04-27 09:33:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
My oldest PC is a Dell Inspiron 640m, built in 2006. It has an Intel T2300 "Yonah" (32 bit).
I don't use it much these days but I have maxed out the RAM and it runs 64-bit Arch without any problems.
13 • Old kit (by Someguy on 2020-04-27 09:49:09 GMT from United Kingdom)
Thanks partly to the DoJ/EU and WIntel standoffs, 64bit machines will generally run 32bit code - folks tend to forget! Got loadsa old boards/ machines back to 486s and a collection of 8088/8086/286-up cpu's probably still functional, plus several built machines with i586/i686, some early Athlon/Sempron 64bit as well as very early mini laptops. Not many in daily use now! Also got one only Amstrad tape drive and one Amstrad disc machines complete with S/W in the loft, amongst the cobwebs.
14 • Google API Keys (by rkyrk on 2020-04-27 11:04:25 GMT from United States)
Since many of the distributions have eliminated the API keys in Chromium, people like myself that require these in Chromium to do our jobs have had to move on. My solution killed two birds with one stone. Installed Devuan and got rid of systemd and now can just download and install native Chrome.
15 • 286 (by pfbruce on 2020-04-27 11:53:11 GMT from United States)
8 -"The oldest machine I have in running order is actually an 80286. No Linux ever ran on that, it was 386+ from the very beginning."
Really! I swear my first distro was Slackware (0.8 or 0.9) on a seond hand 286 with single speed CD drive that also was a sound card (emulating Soundblaster). But, then, maybe I mis remember.
16 • old 32 bit (by wally``` on 2020-04-27 11:53:36 GMT from United States)
Still regularly use a 2005 Toshiba laptop i686.
Runs Debian Buster, Ubunbu Mate, and Linux Mint DE3.
But my main desktop is newish 64 bit.
17 • Star review Connman (by Chris Whelan on 2020-04-27 12:14:11 GMT from United Kingdom)
The reason Connman is used I suspect is because the almost obligatory Network Manager needs systemd support. That's why antiX has to use Connman, whereas MX Linux can use Network Manager.
I agree that Connman does things a bit differently, but once you understand those differences it is easy to use.
18 • PowerPC (by Paolo on 2020-04-27 12:17:56 GMT from Italy)
Running Ubuntu MATE 16.04 on a superb iMac G4 PowerPC 7455 v3.3 1.25 GHz (2003) ... my favourite desktop computer of all times...
19 • 32 bit OS (by Friar Tux on 2020-04-27 13:57:00 GMT from Canada)
I voted none 'All my PC's are 64-bit.' I do have one older PC that appears to be able to run anything bit-wise. As for finding older OS's just go to archiveos.org and click on the Linux sub-heading. I've tried quite a few from there and most seem to work just fine.
As for kid-friendly Linux distros, go over to the sugar-on-a-stick website. I think you may find that helpful. I haven't actually, personally, tried it out, but I hear good things about it. (My kids are in their 40's and my grandkids are in their 20's so you get the picture.)
20 • NetworkManager needs systemd? (by nanome on 2020-04-27 15:34:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
@17 Void Linux + XFCE4 runs NetworkManager but has no element of systemd. Unless there are two different packages with the same name. Having said that, I would prefer an alternative which didn't enable WIFI on boot, and had to be disabled manually [prefer wired networks].
21 • 32-bit hardware (by David on 2020-04-27 15:47:09 GMT from United Kingdom)
My desktop is a 64-bit AMD, but I still have an i686 laptop for taking out and for use in emergencies — an real IBM Thinkpad with a Pentium M, coming up to its 17th birthday!
22 • AntiX & MX Linux (by Martin on 2020-04-27 17:03:54 GMT from United Kingdom)
@17 AntiX and MX Linux are systemd free, so there must be another reason for that.
23 • @17 - Network manager does not need systemd (by Andy Prough on 2020-04-27 17:46:36 GMT from United States)
> The reason Connman is used I suspect is because the almost obligatory Network Manager needs systemd support.
Last I checked, Artix with openRC was using Network Manager just fine on the KDE desktop, no systemd on it.
24 • @22: (by dragonmouth on 2020-04-27 18:11:56 GMT from United States)
MX Linux has a systemd stub which cannot be uninstalled without wrecking the system.
25 • Old kit/New kit (by Mannix on 2020-04-27 18:23:02 GMT from Luxembourg)
I mainly run an Athlon II X2 64 bit (MX Linux as main OS with various flavours installed on a separate SSD as alternatives e.g. Solus 4.1, Manjaro, Mint XFCE, often based on good reviews from DW).
I have an i5 Intel laptop (Windows) for occasional use and Raspberry Pi 4B and 3B+ just for fun; however I have a P4 which I built back in the early noughties and which I've failed to get a Linux flavour to run at speed (it only has 2 Gb memory - the max that the P4 Asus mb will support). Looking at Jesse's advice this week I may have to try a BSD flavour which is new territory to me
26 • Running GNU/Linux on very old CPUs. (by Tuxedoar on 2020-04-27 18:32:05 GMT from Argentina)
Even though most of my PCs are, relatively modern, 64bit machines, I still own an old still working Netbook, with an i386 quite old Atom processor. I've been running Debian on it, since always. Recently, just for fun, I updgraded Debian to its version 9!.
Browsing the web with such an old hardware, is increasingly challenging and inconvenient. Even if you use an adequate lightweight browser (such as NetSurf), many modern web pages render horribly on many of these browsers, which makes reading from them, pretty uncomfortable!. Not to mention the reduced or lack of certain functionality with limited JavaScript support or abscence of it!. Yet, for things like light programming, plain text writing, some network troubleshooting or remote connections with SSH, I find my Netbook still useful!.
Speaking of lightweight software, I use LXDE (thank you devs!! :) ) on all of my PCs, regardless how powerful they are!!. I love it!!. In my case,, the same applies to Debian :) !!.
Cheers.-
27 • I made a mistake. (by Tuxedoar on 2020-04-27 19:06:14 GMT from Argentina)
I made a mistake on #26. The Atom processor of the Netbook I mentioned earlier, is an i686 processor, certainly not an i386!.
Sorry!.
28 • old pc (by arda on 2020-04-27 19:07:33 GMT from Turkey)
Using old PCs is my main point into linux universe. Puppy 2.14 is best for older machines i use it on my pentium 2 and 3s.
29 • old pc and lubuntu (by arda on 2020-04-27 19:09:06 GMT from Turkey)
Btw i forgot to say that i think lxqt on lubuntu is nonsense. Lxde was really good for old computers and computers cope with lxqt should work ubuntu mate or linux mate better.
30 • Oldest computer is... (by Steve on 2020-04-27 19:36:37 GMT from United States)
...a Sony laptop with a 386 in it. I could get a hard drive with more storage into it but I'm limited to 256MB of memory. It came with win98 SE installed, though that only lasted so long. I had Fedora installed for a bit, back with it was still a reputable OS. But it got bloated and started that ridiculous update cycle so I switched to Tiny Core, which is what it's still running. It ain't fancy, but it does what I need it to do.
I have plenty of higher powered boxes for the stuff that requires more. And I voted "a combination of above" as I have a mix of assorted intel and amd processors and one arm processor in the bunch.
31 • Older CPUs (by Rev_Don on 2020-04-27 19:56:09 GMT from United States)
While I selected that all of my PCs are 64 bit, I do have a couple of older 32bit only computers around here that are basically retro or parts computers. None of them are used regularly (or at all).
32 • @22, 24 (by Hoos on 2020-04-27 19:58:23 GMT from Singapore)
MX is not intended to be free of systemd packages.
MX boots by default into sysV init, but gives users the option to boot into systemd init if they wish.
So it is not intended for the user to remove the systemd-shim package that makes it possible for both inits to exist on the same system. @24 is right that if you try removing them, you can make a mess of your system.
If the user's wish is to be completely free of systemd packages, use sister distro antiX or other non-systemd distros.
33 • 32 bit CPU and SSE2 (by Beta on 2020-04-27 20:09:47 GMT from Germany)
in 32 bit CPUs is also big difference for Linux Distros if you have SSE2 CPU or SSE1 CPU like Amd Athlon XP CPU .
for AMD Athlon XP CPU 32 bit is good Debian 9 and 10
and problems with AGP GPUs from Nvidia and AMD .
34 • Deprecation of mini.iso (by mikef90000 on 2020-04-27 20:12:19 GMT from United States)
Apparently the unsupervised child-devs have decided that the mini iso was only used for server installs - not true! I've used it for creating custom desktop installs that do not contain the unwanted Canonical defaults / cruft.
Does anyone have further details behind this change? The pastebin link shows that the mini iso is not in the standard mirror tree, or I may be wrong. Grrrr.
35 • Running an older CPU than i686 (by Terry on 2020-04-27 20:30:49 GMT from United States)
My first computer was a IBM 286 model. Those days, if you had a computer you were high as a mountain.
It had very little memory RAM and Windows 1.0 and 2.0 were the only software you could run on it except for DOS 1.0, 2.0, 3.0
Linux was popular then. I did not even here about Linux until Windows OS/2 came out. Those were the days computing was really fun. Sound cards, Video cards, Hard drives are all manually configured and separate pieces of equipment. Not like today where everything mostly is built;t into the system board.
36 • @35 • Running an older CPU than i686 (by Terry Rosinski on 2020-04-27 20:34:28 GMT from United States)
My first PC was IBM 286 bought back in 1998
37 • Kid friendly distros (by Friar Tux on 2020-04-27 20:35:02 GMT from Canada)
Re @19... I forgot to mention Emmabuntus. It is quite child friendly (once set up by an adult, of course,) and it's easy to use. It's used in schools around the world. You can easily get it here at DW or at the Emmabuntus website. By the way, HandyLinux and DoudouLinux are both discontinued. Ubermix, Suger On A Stick (SoaS), and Emmabuntus are still going strong and are the best.
38 • antiX - connman v network-manager (by anticapitalista on 2020-04-27 20:40:13 GMT from Greece)
Due to the great work done by the Debian init-diversity team, it is now possible to run network-manager on antiX (buster, testing and sid) without any (lib)systemd(0) with a simple apt install. Remember antiX sticks to the Debian repos and along with Knoppix, we are probably the only Debian based distros not running systemd at all (no shim like MX uses) and in the case of antiX - no libsystemd either. This was not the case with the previous Debian stable release (stretch) where antiX had to provide its own de-systemd version of network-manager (which seemed to work ok).
Connman was chosen for antiX because 1) when we chose it it had no (lib)systemd(0) dependencies and more importantly for us 2) it is lighter on RAM than network-manager
39 • @36 Running an older CPU than i686 (by Terry on 2020-04-27 20:41:27 GMT from United States)
Sorry PC bought back in 1991-Just got married and shared our 1st pc together. It only had floppy to floppy drives and hard drive to speak of. Had IBM DOS 3.0 and I loaded Windows 2.0 on it. It took a long time to load and took lots of floppy disk to install as well. The good old days.
40 • Chromium? Who cares? (by CS on 2020-04-27 20:46:53 GMT from United States)
I run Firefox because I'm fairly convinced Mozilla Corporation is too incompetent to spy on me.
41 • popcnt CPU (by beta on 2020-04-27 21:30:59 GMT from Germany)
it would be funny when all new Linux distros would be compiled only for minimal 64 bit SSE 4.2 CPU popcnt. like most fast computer chess engines
42 • Network connection managers (by barnabyh on 2020-04-27 21:33:31 GMT from United Kingdom)
Our options are quite limited when it comes to anything more than connecting. There's also Wicd and Frisbee. The first one has not been actively developed for years (that was already the case when I stopped using it in 2014 or so) and such is not adding functionality, probably by design as the developers think it does what it's supposed to do and is complete, the other was only really used in Puppy as far as I know where it worked really well.
Both do not support more complicated setups like system wide proxy, ssh and the various VPN connections. Which is ok if you get custom software from your VPN provider but not if you want to connect to your own or your company server. In this case I don't know of any better solution than to use NM with the respective plugins. I'ld say there is a niche here, unless of course we take the stance that NM is 'good enough' and covers all our needs thanks to the geat work done by the init-diversity team and antiX as described in #38. Not a fan of reinventing the wheel either but something more independent may be good.
What do people think of Frisbee (in general)?
43 • Pentium Pro Anyone? (by Ben Myers on 2020-04-27 21:44:57 GMT from United States)
Well, it's not a machine per se, but a collection of boards looking for a chassis. I have an Intel VS440 motherboard with 200MHz Pentium Pro and 1GB (!!) of memory consisting of 4x256MB 72-pin SIMMs salvaged from a long-gone Intergraph system. I can and have set up the board with a decent PCI graphics card, a SoundBlaster card and a 10/100 Intel Ethernet card.
I have not run Linux on this collection, but I have successfully booted from a USB stick and run HiRens stripped down Windows 10 x64. If you want to see slow, you have to see it load web pages.
Maybe it's time to boot it up with a modern Linux distro.
44 • Knoppix runs well on 32bit x86 netbook with KDE Plasma 5 (by Elcaset on 2020-04-27 23:01:23 GMT from United States)
The oldest x86 computer I'm running currently is a netbook with a 32bit x86 Atom cpu. It's maxed out at only 2GB RAM. The current version of Knoppix runs surprisingly well even with KDE Plasma 5. It's also the only distro I've gotten my old & newish laser printers to work with. I'm very impressed with Knoppix.
45 • 32-bit with Devuan (by Trox on 2020-04-27 23:58:11 GMT from Norway)
Devuan works fine on both my 32-bit and 64-bit pc's. And both have installed Xfce and Trinity (TDE).
I use for the most Trinity, a lightweight Kde desktop. Trinity Desktop Manager (TDM) is exelent.
Use the Debian instructions, wget and install trinity-keyring.deb, add to sources.list, apt-get update,
and then search "trinity" to have all applications in Synaptic.
Xfe and Dolphin-Trinity file-managers, Firefox and Midori browsers
46 • 32-bit CPUs (by brokeass on 2020-04-28 00:02:32 GMT from United States)
My home server for years was a Pentium III running custom kernel and ubuntu 6.06 packages. It was used primarily to run VMWare Server with a Windows ME guest running a commercial fax program that allowed my wife to send/receive faxes remotely (it's a Dell desktop w/ a serial port). The original 6Gb HDD just died last year after being powered on continuously for over a decade.
I'm writing this on a Pentium M laptop running Debian 9 (my general web browsing rig). My old netbook (Atom) is running Ubuntu 10, and I used it exclusively as my online banking computer (using the last Firefox w/ GTK2 support) until this year when chase.com became unusable (CPU can no longer handle the scripting).
47 • U'bu 20.04 74MB mini.iso (by Somewhat Reticent on 2020-04-28 00:20:32 GMT from United States)
There may be an applicable explanation here
https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/server-installer-plans-for-20-04-lts/13631
of how U'bu devs hope to simplify their work;
the mini.iso popular with so many distro devs is available (under "legacy")
as noted (on reddit's Ubuntu discussion area)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/g2itbj/tried_to_find_miniiso_for_ubuntu_2004_beta_and/
which refers to
http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/focal/main/installer-amd64/current/legacy-images/netboot/
which yields
mini.iso = 20.04 with 5.4.0-26-generic kernel
Hope that helps!
48 • Distro for Kids offline (by Aamir Shahzad on 2020-04-28 00:42:53 GMT from Pakistan)
EGOS, old, not updated but still usable for kids offline.
"EGOS. EGOS is a Linux distribution based on Linux Mint featuring the Xfce desktop environment. The distribution is intended to be used by children and has an unusual installation process which requires the use of Systemback to install the project's 6GB download image."
"This distro is specially made for children. It's Linux Mint based (Xfce). Many software pre installed, so it size is about 6 GB (installed system size about 13 GB). That's why we can't provide it's ISO. It's suitable for creating 8 GB live USB."
https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20170925#waiting
49 • 64bit vs 32bit (by cykodrone on 2020-04-28 01:15:45 GMT from Germany)
While I applaud some hardware not winding up in a landfill, older machines are not very environment friendly, the power used per clock cycle is insane. That being said, there's still the issue of most usable software (not OS, software) being 64bit these days. So just out of curiosity, what would you use an old clunker for? File server? Space heater (kidding)? Headless IP spoofing firewall?
50 • @37 Sugar (by Titus_Groan on 2020-04-28 06:47:16 GMT from New Zealand)
further reading : https://sugarlabs.org/
Sugar DE is available from some Distro repos, so you could just login to the Sugar DE if you share the computer with a young person
51 • @40: (by dragonmouth on 2020-04-28 11:57:53 GMT from United States)
Mozilla may be too incompetent to spy on us but it farms that task out to Google who perform that task quite adequately. Go into about:config and search for "Google" and "Safe Browsing" and you will see how many hooks into Google there are in Firefox.Luckily, most, if not all, of those hooks can be disabled.
52 • @45 - Devuan with TDE == EXE Linux (by Uncle Slacky on 2020-04-28 12:29:06 GMT from France)
You could just use EXE GNU/Linux, it's already done most of the work for you! http://exegnulinux.net/
53 • Running an older CPU than i686 (by Roger on 2020-04-28 14:14:12 GMT from Belgium)
Running an older CPU than i686, which is what I do and the other members of our Linuxworkgroup.
So I voted some combination of the above, because for me it is important that hardware go's a long way.
For that reason I like what Emmabunüs is doing, a very worthwhile initiative.
In our work-group we do the same and get second hand computers and/or laptop and put Linux on them.
Here at my place I run around 25 PC with Linux and 10 laptop, only one laptop was bought new.
Two of the PC where bought new and came in 2007 with Vista and now still work running Linux Mint Mate which is my preferred Distro as for most members.
So yes older CPU are still capable.
54 • STAR (by sananab on 2020-04-28 17:02:07 GMT from Canada)
Star is definitely the next distro I'll be trying. Crunchbang is my favourite distro of all time, but Bunsenlabs didn't do much for me. I've also had some pretty annoying issues with both SystemD and PulseAudio this month, and I'm seriously thinking about moving away from Poettering and enjoying computing like I used to.
55 • Re: 26 • Running GNU/Linux on very old CPUs. (by Bill Lee on 2020-04-28 18:17:06 GMT from Canada)
re: 26 • Running GNU/Linux on very old CPUs.
So the netbook renders web pages horribly.
Try using Lynx, the text browser software, with the Blynx setting (numbers each link for "blind" users) and zoom away,
Most web pages show well and you can zoom around a page much more easily.
56 • Does distinguishing i386, i486, i586 and i686 matter nowadays? (by RoestVrijStaal on 2020-04-28 23:47:57 GMT from Netherlands)
I wonder if the distros who still actively support 32-bit x86 CPUs do specific things to advertise that they support a specific i*86 generation.
As far as I've checked, the distros who support 32-bit x86 come with ONE iso targeting 32-bit x86 CPU. No specific i386, i486, i586 and i686 flavors.
Why does DistroWatch still distinguish those, and not provide x86_32 as catch-all? Compare x86_64, which is a catch-all for AMD64 and EM64T.
57 • @15 SB CD-ROM (by Semiarticulate on 2020-04-29 20:41:42 GMT from United States)
You remember correctly. I had that Sound Blaster sound card. It came with a proprietary IDE interface that allowed for running a 1x CD-ROM. Was pretty hi-tech at the time. It was years later before my friends had CD-ROM drives.
58 • Kid's Linux (by Tim on 2020-04-30 02:03:11 GMT from United States)
I decided to look back and into this topic because it had been a number of years since I last looked and my kids definitely need some new stuff to do.
I tried installing the Sugar DE on Mint 19.3, and it just crashed. So I downloaded it as the new live image built on Fedora and ran it in a VM. It seemed like it was really meant for classroom use on netbooks- it didn't seem to be the kid's customized general purpose distro that would keep my kids interested.
So I tried Lliurex Infantil again. Honestly, it's great. I'd love my kids to be exposed to something like this in school. It's a normal Linux desktop (KDE for the 2019 image, MATE for the 2016 image, GNOME classic for the 2015 image) full of open source games and educational programs. I'm really impressed that they could curate a collection of software that a kid could play with for hours. I wish other school systems did this.
One bad thing: at least in the US, I can't get either of the newer images to install. They work live, but their installer has a bad mirror. That said, one can play with them live, find the software your kid likes, and just install it on a normal distro. I did get the 15.05 image to install in a VM, though, and that's what my kid is currently playing with.
59 • Firefox spying (by Jim on 2020-04-30 10:23:04 GMT from United States)
AskVG
[Tip] Disable Telemetry and Data Collection in Mozilla Firefox Web Browser
https://www.askvg.com/tip-disable-telemetry-and-data-collection-in-mozilla-firefox-quantum/
60 • @59 no "telemetry" (by curious on 2020-04-30 10:56:46 GMT from Germany)
Or use a browser that doesn't try this kind of spying in the first place, for example Pale Moon.
61 • @60: (by dragonmouth on 2020-04-30 13:39:42 GMT from United States)
Pale Moon is good but one cannot use many of the security/privacy add-ons that one can use with Firefox. And no, the functionality of those add-ons is not built into Pale Moon.
62 • 32bit OS and ... (by OstroL on 2020-04-30 19:04:45 GMT from Poland)
I don't really have any 32bit computers, but I have a 32bit OS running on a 64bit machine as it has only 2GB RAM. It is a '2 in 1' that runs 32bit Windows 10.
If we consider the "smartphone" as a computer, then I have 32bit machine, a Nexus 6 running 32bit Android 9.
63 • Firefox (by M.Z. on 2020-04-30 21:46:17 GMT from United States)
I'm sure Firefox isn't perfect, as nothing really is, but it is still the best major browser for privacy by a wide margin. The one that's definitively untrustworthy is Google Chrome & people eat that garbage up so much they made it the number 1 browser by a fair margin. It even seems to be threatening a return to the days of browser mono-culture like there was when IE had over 90% market share. That I actually find threatening, especially given what Google generally does to your privacy. It might be nice if Firefox leaned on them a little less, but could swear I've heard complaints about things like the crash reporter existing in Firefox. Let them try to fix the freaking bugs for crying out loud, and try and focus on serious problems.
It's worth remembering that not only does Mozilla have a clear policy set out on data collection for Firefox, but they tell you how to turn that stuff off if you want:
"Telemetry measures and collects non-personal information..."
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Telemetry
And:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1197144
64 • Firefox Security Settings Suggestions (by David on 2020-05-01 03:27:38 GMT from United States)
@40 @51 @59 @60
I'd suggest reviewing these links to harden Firefox security within about:config -
https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/firefox-hardening-guide/
https://restoreprivacy.com/firefox-privacy/
The two sites cross-reference each other, and offer a few settings that one or the other do not include.
I use Chromium as well. I went into chrome://flags and disabled every setting that references Google, WebGL, WebRTC, peer-to-peer, Omnibox and many others. I also disable all the "experimental" settings. If you web search possible settings to disable, you'd be surprised how many of them you can safely disable without getting hammered by any negative performance reduction. If the changes don't work for you, just hit the "Reset all to default" settings button, and start over again until you get closer to the security level that you're comfortable with.
For example, there's a setting in Chromium called "Freeze User-Agent request header" that locks you into one user agent, thus making you easier to track. I disabled that setting, and installed a user agent spoofer extension as well.
Lastly, take a look at a Firefox & Chromium extension called Trace, which features multiple customizable security settings that work with both browsers.
JMHO
65 • (by on 2020-05-01 09:53:29 GMT from United States)
60 • @59 no "telemetry"
61 • @60: (by dragonmouth
Pale Moon is good but one cannot use many of the security/privacy add-ons that one can use with Firefox. And no, the functionality of those add-ons is not built into Pale Moon.
I agree with dragonmouth on this one. I had used Palemoon for years, but the lack of addons and poor performance pushed me back to Firefox. I still keep it installed on my desktop, but seldom use it anymore. I also dual boot Parrot for privacy and security and us anon surf and the tor browser for somethings, but it does not really work as my everyday OS.
66 • Palemoon (by cykodrone on 2020-05-01 11:28:18 GMT from Italy)
I also got forced back to Firefox, but only for generic, spammy sites (that refuse to work properly in TB, or use too much TOR bandwidth). I use TB to fly under the radar, and shred the unpacked folder of the self executable regularly (and thoroughly go through the privacy settings, to disable anything that's even remotely snoopy, each time). What perplexes me is, most distros have little to no support for Palemoon in their repos, I've even had to add a custom repo just to get it, or install it from a hunted down, downloaded package (even a package conversion to native once). I find this odd, from the FOSS/privacy community. Same community that drank the Kool-Aid and adopted RH's spywared, and are now prisoners, slaves to it.
67 • Old Computers (by coolio on 2020-05-01 19:19:52 GMT from United States)
My oldest computers are laptops with Pentium M running at 2.0 ghz and 2GB of RAM. I used to run Lubuntu, but with the DE change, it's become bloated and useless.
I've gone back and forth between a bunch of distros, trying to get the best performance out of the old laptops. WIndows XP performs really well and is decent with the taokaizen Chrome version which runs on 32 bit with security updates.
As for Linux, I want to keep a nice GUI that is really light on the GPU and CPU. Not too worried about RAM. It seems like every review focuses on RAM instead of CPU and GPU usage.
I've tried Puppy, but the lack of easy install and hassle to get an updated 32 bit browser is not worth it.
I've tried Lubuntu, and it was my go-to, until they turned it into a resource hog and plans to drop 32 bit support. It's too bad, because I would run Lubuntu on new equipment and the old Pentium M laptops so that I had matching software. No more.
I've tried Peppermint, LXDE, and a bunch of other "light" distros. They all just don't cut it.
I'm still trying to see what the big deal is about AntiX. It's light, but for whatever reason, it's just slow. Maybe in the quest to kill SystemD, it has painted itself into a corner. It simply is not quick enough for such a stripped down distro.
CONCLUSION:
The best distro for these old systems, by far, is Bodhi. I keep searching out for something quicker and nicer, but there isn't. It's fast, stable, and I can run whatever software on a supported 32bit OS. Chromium runs great on it. It doesn't have a bunch of extra software crap on it. It comes clean, I strip down the few things that I don't need, and load up the things I do need.
There is a seller on eBay (drowsyparrot) that sells tested IDE laptop SSD drives. These things are great! I put one of these in, then max the RAM to 2GB, put in 2.0 ghz CPU, and I have a useful computer when I add XP or Bodhi. Great for old school computing.
Just my 2 cents.
68 • @old computers (by anticapitalista on 2020-05-01 20:11:54 GMT from Greece)
@67 - nice! You didn't say which version of Bodhi?
69 • @67 Review RAM (by cykodrone on 2020-05-01 20:48:09 GMT from Sweden)
I have to agree, full RAM is good, the more there is up in the RAM, the faster the OS and programs are. When a machine has to constantly harass the drive, it's actually slower. So called 'lite' distros should be also be praised for the least amount of junk (frivolous processes, little or never used, start on demand is good) running after a fresh boot, and sitting idle at the desktop, whatever overhead is left (cpu, gpu, and yes, even ram), is for the user to get things done, or play. I used to use wattOS on older hardware, was fun to play with, sadly, it looks dormant. https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=wattos
70 • @67 - Light distros (by Uncle Slacky on 2020-05-01 21:48:06 GMT from France)
Bodhi is a good choice - I used it for a long time on my Asus EEE 701 netbook. You might also want to check out Slitaz, Q4OS Trinity or EXE GNU/Linux or even MX Linux (which now offers Fluxbox if XFCE is too slow).
71 • Privacy & Browser Choice (by M.Z. on 2020-05-01 22:31:47 GMT from United States)
@ cykodrone
If you want a great grab bag of browser option in the default repos of a Distro you should probably check out PCLinuxOS (I think they had Palemoon along with a lot of others).
Also, the only time I heard of a legit case that someone was spreading spyware via open source _This_ is the community that forced Shuttleworth the get rid of the Unity 'lens' sending user data back up to the mothership at Canonical. Real problems can be handled, pernicious init FUD not so much, but you do have a real choice & it's more likely to stay around if you support the Distros that provide the choices you want than if you make baseless attacks on others.
72 • Pentium Pro (by Norbi on 2020-05-02 12:27:47 GMT from Switzerland)
Running a second hand Dell Laptop from the late 90's 350 Mhz PPro, 256 MB RAM with Q4OS,
All my other machines are 64-bit (Pi 3, Odroid N2, 2 x Intel i7, Atom x5 w AMD64 microcode)
73 • Bodhi, and old PCs (by Angel on 2020-05-03 02:05:27 GMT from Philippines)
@ 68, For 32bit computers, the legacy version of Bodhi with non-pae kernel. As to your comment in @38, BusterDog runs without systemD, borrowing from antiX to do so. Then there would be Simplicity, which is based on BusterDog.
For anyone running really old machines, maybe they should consider really old Linux:
https://soft.lafibre.info/
74 • Privacy and Browser Choice @71 (by Basil Fernie on 2020-05-03 13:16:42 GMT from South Africa)
The current MXLinux (simple) Package Installer shows 11 browsers, including Palemoon. I don't much like Firefox, especially with its regular large updates that download automatically.
After Microsoft's Inherently Evil browser (well, not the browser but the business strategy) suffocated Netscape Navigator, I turned to Opera, which in those days (32-bit, OS/2) incorporated an e-mail facility which worked exceptionally well for me. After Microsoft's Win32s denial suffocated OS/2, I wandered around in the Window (7, mainly) wilderness for a bit until Linux (SuSE initially, then Lubuntu) and I had reached some working agreement, and eventually revisited Opera which had become 64-bit and, IIRC, had comtinued to implement the emailer in the versions for Windows but denied it to Unix users. Don't understand the strategic thinking, it was never going to dislodge Outlook for all those MS users, but could possibly have reached quite a prominent position amongst Linuxers. (No, I am not a doctrinaire FOSSer). Rather like LibreOffice, really.
Opera has historically tended to be a bit ahead of the competition technically, and I've appreciated that.
75 • @74, browsers (by Angel on 2020-05-03 13:56:11 GMT from Philippines)
The Opera that was is not the Opera that is. It is owned by the Golden Brick Capital Private Equity Fund which just by its name one can tell it's in China. The browser now uses the Chromium engine, so much for innovation. Lately its begun to pop up suggestions about features and such, which then involves a search to find way to disable those. It does offer a limited "VPN." (proxy) The one feature I keep it around for is the personal news page, which I find useful.
Firefox doesn't update automatically, unless you set your distro up to do that. In Windows, it's automatic by default, but can be easily changed. Updates are no bigger than others.
Number of Comments: 75
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