 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 854, 24 February 2020 |
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Welcome to this year's 8th issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
In a world where many distributions share the same base, whether it is Debian, Arch, or Gentoo, it can feel as though some projects are quite similar. The Void distribution, on the other hand, throws off convention and offers a series of unusual or unique features, including a custom package manager, its own init software, and multiple C libraries. We explore the Void project in this week's Feature Story and report on how it works in practise. Void's many special features are also the subject of our Opinion Poll and we would like to hear which, if any, of Void's key points appeal to you. In our News section we talk about a new, web-based tool for finding software to install on Manjaro Linux and report on the Fedora distribution running on a PinePhone. Plus we share thoughts from the IPFire team on WireGuard, a VPN technology. Then we offer a follow-up Questions and Answers column which addresses queries our readers had about the /e/ mobile operating system. Plus we are pleased to share the releases of the past week and list the torrents we are seeding. We wish you all a wonderful week and happy reading!
Content:
- Review: Void 20191109
- News: Manjaro launches web-based software portal, Fedora runs on PinePhone, IPFire discusses WireGuard option
- Questions and answers: Answering questions about /e/ phone
- Released last week: Netrunner 20.01, Untangle NG Firewall 15.0
- Torrent corner: Bluestar, EasyOS, KDE neon, Live Raizo, Netrunner, PCLinuxOS, Untangle
- Opinion poll: Void's unusual features
- New distributions: releax os, GalliumOS
- Reader comments
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (15MB) and MP3 (11MB) formats.
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
Void 20191109
Void is a rolling release Linux distribution. The project offers a number of features which are uncommon in the Linux community, including a custom package manager (XBPS), two flavours of C library (the GNU C Library, glibc, and musl libc), and a custom init implementation called runit. If this were not enough to make the project interesting, the distribution can run on multiple architectures, including 32-bit (x86), 64-bit (x86_64), and several ARM boards, including the Raspberry Pi and BeagleBone.
Void is also the future base for Project Trident, which is migrating from TrueOS to Void, partially for more up to date hardware support. The Void project is available in a minimal, command line edition and six desktop editions: Enlightenment, Cinnamon, LXDE, LXQt, MATE, and Xfce. This, along with each edition being available in two C library flavours and multiple CPU architectures means the hardest part when getting started with Void is picking which option to download. I went with the 64-bit Xfce edition with the musl library. This edition was 757MB in size.
Booting from the live media brings up a menu asking if we would like to load the live desktop or transfer the operating system into RAM for improved performance and then load the live desktop. Either way, in short order the Xfce 4.14 desktop appears. The desktop's panel with an application menu, task switcher, and system tray appears across the top edge of the screen. A quick-launch panel appears centred along the bottom of the screen. Immediately after the desktop loads a pop-up message appears letting us know "Xfce PolicyKit Agent" has encountered an error. No further information is provided and all we can do is close this window. This PolicyKit error appears every time we sign in, both when running the live environment and when the operating system has been installed on the hard drive.
Void 20191109 -- The Xfce application menu and Thunar file manager
(full image size: 146kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
Sometimes while I was running the live session the screensaver would kick in and prompt me for a password when I came back to my desk. The password to unlock the system is "voidlinux" which is shared on the distribution's download page. I recommend looking over the project's website, especially the download page, as there are a lot of tips and important pieces of information offered there. For example, there is no launcher for the Void system installer in the application menu. The download page tells us we can launch the installer using the command "sudo void-installer" from a command line.
Installing
Running the Void system installer opens a series of text-based menus. While we can go through the installer's options in the order of our choosing, I found it straight forward to go through the list from top to bottom. We are asked to pick our keyboard's layout from a list. Then enable a network interface and, optionally, enable DHCP to automatically get an IP address. We are then asked if we would like to install software packages from a local source (the DVD or USB thumb drive) or over the network. The Void website warns us we should use the local install media as the source when setting up a desktop environment. Though a reason is not given, I accepted the advice.
We are then asked to make up a hostname for our computer and pick our timezone from a list of options. We can then make up a password for the root account and create a username and password for our regular user account. We are then asked to pick a location for the system's bootloader.
Next the installer launches the menu-driven cfdisk partition manager to help us organize the hard drive. After the partitioning tool exits we are asked to assign filesystems to available partitions. The installer offers to format partitions with Btrfs, ext2/3/4, f2fs, and XFS. I decided to go with Btrfs in the hope of working with snapshots to safeguard the distribution's rolling release nature. The menu for assigning filesystems does not update to show when an area of the disk has been marked to be formatted. This makes it look like partitions will not be formatted, but otherwise the installer was pretty straight forward to navigate. Once we are done, the installer copies its files to the hard drive and offers to reboot the system.
While Void's installer feels like a throwback to the 90s in its style and resembles the installers of BSDs and Slackware in its approach, it works quickly and experienced users should have no problem navigating its options.
Early impressions
My new copy of Void booted to a graphical login screen where I could sign into the Xfce 4.14 desktop. When running in VirtualBox the initial screen resolution was unusually low, but could be adjusted in the Xfce settings panel without requiring any extra modules to be installed. When running on my workstation, Xfce used my display's full resolution.
The Xfce desktop was, as usual, very responsive and tended to stay out of the way. The default theme is a bit bright (and bland) for my taste, but it is easy enough to customize the desktop's appearance through the settings panel. I also found the quick-launch bar at the bottom of the screen took up real estate without providing me much benefit and it was easy to remove this second panel by right-clicking on it and removing it from the desktop settings.
Void 20191109 -- The Xfce settings panel
(full image size: 139kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
There were a few issues with programs missing that the desktop expected to be available. For instance, the application menu has a launcher for a mail reader, but there is no e-mail client installed by default. In a similar vein, pressing the PrintScreen key caused an error as Xfce's screenshot tool could not be launched. In other words, the short-cut had been defined, but the screenshot utility was not installed. These missing pieces are easy to remedy, but give a rough early impression.
Hardware
I began by trying out Void in VirtualBox and, apart from starting with a low desktop resolution, the distribution appeared to be working well. The system was responsive and running smoothly. When I switched over to the desktop machine I found Void could not boot in UEFI mode and could only be started in Legacy BIOS mode. Whenever I tried to launch the distribution with UEFI enabled the system would reboot and send me back to the boot loader screen.
When run in BIOS mode, Void performed smoothly on my workstation and Xfce offered top-notch performance. However, when running on either virtual or real hardware there was one serious problem: Void could not produce sound. When attempting to play music or videos, the distribution was silent. No audio mixer is included with the desktop environment so I installed both PulseAudio and ALSA, along with volume mixing tools. While the mixers confirmed desktop applications, like VLC and Firefox, were producing audio, none was ever sent to the computer's speakers, regardless of the output device or volume settings.
Void is a relatively light distribution out of the box. The Xfce edition used just 2.5GB of disk space for a fresh install and consumed about 240MB of RAM. This puts it on the lower end of the scale compared with most desktop distributions I have used over the past year.
When I first started using Void I noticed I could not power off the computer from the login screen. I had to sign in and then shutdown the system from the application or user menus. Early on I was able shutdown or restart the operating system from within the desktop environment. However, after the first wave of package upgrades, I could no longer shutdown the system using Xfce's menu options which had become disabled. To power off or restart the machine I had to open a terminal and type the appropriate shutdown command manually.
Void 20191109 -- Exploring a dark theme and running Firefox
(full image size: 136kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
Applications
Void does not ship with many desktop applications. We are given the Firefox web browser, an image viewer and the Parole Media Player. The Thunar file manager is included along with a file renaming utility and the Xfce settings panel. These tools generally worked well, with the exception of Parole which would crash while trying to play a video and throw errors when playing audio files which indicate there is a problem with the player's backend not working. I swapped out Parole for VLC and found video files would display, but no media files would result in sound being produced.
Void does not ship with compilers or Java. At the time of writing this rolling release distribution ships with version 5.3 of the Linux kernel, though newer versions should regularly be made available. In the background the OpenSSH service runs, providing remote access. I was disappointed to discover Void's secure shell service allows remote root logins by default, a security concern that most other distributions disable out of the box.
One of Void's main claims to fame is its runit init software. The runit software is very simple, minimalist and light. It manages services a little differently than other init implementations and the details are well explained in the project's manual pages. It took me a little while to get used to how to start and stop services with runit, but once I got the hang of it I appreciated the flexibility. For instance, I like that the runit service manager will optionally either run a service just once, or start it and then monitor a service, restarting it if the service crashes.
Void 20191109 -- Exploring runit's features
(full image size: 136kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
I ran a few simple tests with runit on Void and compared it against SysV init running on MX Linux and systemd running on KaOS. These were crudely done tests, but I found it worth noting that SysV init and systemd booted and shutdown their operating systems in approximately the same amount of time. The runit implementation took half the time to boot Void and was faster shutting down. Its PID 1 process also used about 1% of the memory of SysV init, or less than half a per cent of systemd's memory usage. (These statistics are the same whether I was measuring virtual memory or resident memory).
Software management
Another of Void's special features is its XBPS package manager. While XBPS offers a lot of features, including mixing binary and source packages, I mostly focused on three main components: xbps-install for installing and upgrading packages, xbps-remove for deleting software, and xbps-query for finding packages in the repositories. There is no default graphical package manager for Void.
The XBPS utilities work well and very quickly, which is nice because Void's minimal nature meant I had to track down a lot of extra software. The syntax of the commands is sometimes a bit cryptic, but the tools worked and I encountered no problems while using them.
The first day of my trial there were about 200 updates, 400MB in size, waiting to be installed. Void does not notify the user when new packages become available, we are expected to check periodically.
One aspect of XBPS I appreciate is that we can find and install new repositories, such as community or non-free repositories, as though they were packages. For example, we can search for packages named "void-repo" and get a list of non-standard repositories the package manager recognizes. We can then install a repository package such as void-repo-nonfree to get access to software published under restrictive licenses.
Void 20191109 -- Adding new repositories with XBPS
(full image size: 142kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
Conclusions
Void is quite an unusual project with a wide range of interesting features, such as multiple C libraries, many editions, support for lots of ARM devices, its own package manager, and its own init software. If you ever find yourself thinking that Linux distributions all feel too similar, Void will likely cure you of that feeling.
Being unique brings its own set of challenges. It means there is a learning curve for newcomers as there is a new package manager, a new service manager, and new approaches to understand. Void looks and acts a lot like other Linux distributions on the surface, but when you start poking at the details all sorts of differences become visible.
While I like Void's minimalist, unusual, and super fast nature, there are some drawbacks. Having a desktop distribution which cannot produce sound or boot on UEFI computers is a hard sell and a combination of problems which made Void impractical for me to use or recommend. There were a number of other, smaller issues too, like the persistent PolicyKit error that appeared at each login and the inability to shutdown the computer through the graphical interface after the first wave of updates. In short, I think Void is exploring a lot of interesting ideas, but it feels as though the project is spread thin and some issues are definitely leaking through the cracks.
This is a project that has a design I greatly appreciate and would like to explore further, but the quirks in the interface and problems with things like audio mean that I will have to keep appreciating Void from afar. I do wish more projects considered runit seriously though, it is a gem of an init system, very light, easy to understand, and flexible. I would be happy to see it adopted elsewhere.
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Hardware used in this review
My physical test equipment for this review was a desktop HP Pavilon p6 Series with the following specifications:
- Processor: Dual-core 2.8GHz AMD A4-3420 APU
- Storage: 500GB Hitachi hard drive
- Memory: 6GB of RAM
- Networking: Realtek RTL8111 wired network card, Ralink RT5390R PCIe Wireless card
- Display: AMD Radeon HD 6410D video card
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Visitor supplied rating
Void has a visitor supplied average rating of: 9.1/10 from 217 review(s).
Have you used Void? You can leave your own review of the project on our ratings page.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
Manjaro launches web-based software portal, Fedora running on a PinePhone, IPFire discusses WireGuard option
The team behind Manjaro Linux have launched a new web portal for finding software that is available in their rolling release distribution. Manjaro users can make use of many different software repositories and packages, including Snap and Flatpak bundles. "You can find all our packages, Flatpak and Snaps at one website. In a future version we will enable also installation from web. " The web portal, Discover Software, provides quick access to all packages available to Manjaro users with a number of filters and search options.
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The PinePhone is an open hardware mobile device intended to be paired with Linux-based distributions, such as LineageOS and UBports. Nikhil Jha published a tweet in which the PinePhone is shown taking on a more mainstream distribution: Fedora running the GNOME desktop. The PinePhone is reportedly running Fedora with a custom build of version 5.6 of the Linux kernel. This porting attempt should pave the way for additional distributions to be ported to the mobile device.
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Usually we talk about distributions introducing new features and options, but sometimes a project avoids new changes or holds off on switching to new technologies and the reasons for those decisions can be just as interesting. The IPFire blog features a post which talks about the WireGuard VPN technology that was recently merged into the Linux kernel. While WireGuard offers some exciting possibilities, IPFire is currently not planning to use it to replace existing VPN options and the blog post explains why. "The latest thing that is getting a lot of attention is WireGuard - the new shooting star in terms of VPN. But is it as great as it sounds? I would like to discuss some thoughts, have a look at the implementation and tell you why WireGuard is not a solution that will replace IPsec or OpenVPN. In this article I would like to debunk the myths. It is a long read. If you are in need of a tea of coffee, now is the time to make it. Thanks to Peter for proof-reading my chaotic thoughts. I do not want to discredit the developers of WireGuard for their efforts or for their ideas. It is a working piece of technology, but I personally think that it is being presented as something entirely different - as a replacement for IPsec and OpenVPN which it simply is not."
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Answering questions about the /e/ phone
Last week I posted my initial thoughts on the /e/ operating system, an Android- and LineageOS-based platform that runs on a range of Android smart phones. Some of our readers had follow-up questions about the phone and my experiences with it. Below are their questions and my responses based on my ongoing experiences with the /e/ operating system running on a Samsung Galaxy S9.
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Question: Like many people, there are several smart phone apps that I am dependent on - such as my credit union and payment apps. To me the big challenge to any kind of open source phone is that unless they can provide access to the Play store, or provide an alternative for commerce based apps like Cube and banking apps, they are basically doomed from the start.
Answer: This is a big part of what /e/ tries to address. Since the operating system's base is Android, it can run all (or virtually all) Android applications, such as those used by your bank. Programs can either be downloaded from third-parties or you can request they be added to the /e/ software centre. In a pinch you can use a third-party software centre to download apps directly from the Play store. I have tested this and it works smoothly. Basically /e/ gives you access to all your Android applications without the requirement of having a Google account.
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Question: Nice review, but does it make phone calls? Receive texts? How is the sound quality? Is it compatible with all normal carriers?
Answer:
Yes, the /e/ phone makes calls and receives text. In this respect it works exactly like any other Android (or Android-based) phone. The /e/ operating system is basically Android with the Google bits removed, meaning calls, audio, texts, and such all work the same way as an Android phone.
When talking about alternative mobile operating systems I often encounter the question as to whether the new system is compatible with a carrier's network. Carrier and network compatibility is not a function of the operating system, it is a function of the phone's hardware. If the phone's hardware supports the frequencies your cell carrier uses then the phone will work to make calls, text, and use mobile data. In other words, if your phone connects to your carrier's network when running Android, it will also work when running /e/ or UBports. The operating system the phone is using makes no difference.
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Question: Please try F-Droid on the /e/ and see whether there are any conflicts or issues.
Answer: I did install the F-Droid software centre and installed a few applications through it. They all worked well and updates were delivered without any problems. Running F-Droid on /e/ was a positive experience for me and indistinguishable from running F-Droid on Android.
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Questions: 1. What about energy optimisation (eat battery)? 2. What about root access?
3. What about OS updates (major versions)? Can you update OS to analog Android version 9 and version 10?
Answers: 1. The /e/ platform consumes power at approximately the same rate as Android and can use the same battery saving options and apps. There might be a slight difference in favour of /e/ since it doesn't show ads and pop-ups as much as I tend to experience under Android. Otherwise their battery consumption (and options to reduce battery drain) are the same.
2. Root access is not enabled by default. However, you can turn on root access for applications through the Settings panel. In short, if you enable developer mode, then you can also enable root access.
3. No, you cannot update /e/ to Android 10. New updates do come out occasionally with security updates, but I have not encountered any way to jump ahead to newer versions of the platform.
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Finally, not a question, but some tips for using /e/ came from Sven:
- To establish a connection with your computer you must authorize the connection on the phone each time. This is an Android thing, not specific to /e/. After connecting the cable between phone and computer, swipe down from the top of the screen on the phone. Tap on "Android system - USB charging this device", then tap again on "Tap for more options", and finally pick the option "Transfer files". The phone will then be visible and accessible on your computer.
[Jesse's note: I confirmed this works. It is an awfully roundabout way to access a device that has been plugged in, but it does grant access to the phone's filesystem from the computer.]
- If you install the Nextcloud app you can access and, if you chose, synchronize the Documents folder, or any other folder of your choice.
[Jesse's note: This is true, though you should make sure you don't introduce conflicts between the existing sync options and the Nextcloud application.]
- Install the open-source Aurora app store (available from Apps) to get access to all apps from the Google Play store, but without needing a Google account. Almost but not all of them will work just fine on /e/. For example I use the Tangerine Bank, Kobo, Transit, and Communauto apps frequently without problems.
[Jesse's note: I used a different third-party tool to download and install apps from the Play store. However, I can confirm programs installed indirectly from the Play store work, essentially giving /e/ user's access to all Android apps.]
- I believe you can still use a Google calendar to do family coordination, by defining your Google credentials as an extra calendar in the Calendar app (which is a rebranded Etar), although I have not tried this myself.
[Jesse's note: I did try this and it works. This somewhat defeats the purpose of running /e/, as the point is to de-Google the Android experience. However, you can sync the Calendar app to your Google calendar if need be.]
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| Released Last Week |
Untangle NG Firewall 15.0
Fabio Angelosanto has announced the release of Untangle NG Firewall 15.0, a new version of the project's Debian-based firewall and network gateway designed for small to medium-sized enterprises. Some of the new features of this release are a "Threat Prevention App" and "Kidzsearch": "New Threat Prevention App analyzes web pages, web page associations, apps and files. It acts as a gatekeeper to determine what is or is not allowed, based on the assessed Threat Risk level. The technology even evaluates encrypted Internet traffic that today's threat actors can use to hide their malicious activities in, and that other types of security tools will not be able to see. Kidzsearch filtering for common search engines such as Google and Bing. This child-specific filter ensures that only age appropriate search results are returned to content-sensitive environments, such as schools and libraries. Flexibility for administrators to customize their NG Firewall email alerts. Administrators can format their alerts so that they can easily filter or flag them into the preferred email client application." Read the rest of the press release for further information.
Netrunner 20.01
Netrunner is a Debian-based desktop distribution with the latest version, Netrunner 20.01, based on Debian 10.3 "Buster". "Netrunner 20.01 ships with all the latest security updates provided by Debian and a polished Indigo Global Theme, making use of Kvantum theming engine. Firefox-ESR and Thunderbird were updated to the latest stable LTS (long term supported) versions, which get regular security updates provided by Debian security. Theming-wise, the switch to the Breeze Window decoration with its darker color increases the contrast and makes it easier to distinguish between active and inactive windows. The red colored cursor (RED-Theme) allows to quickly locate the cursor on the screen and has a retro vibe to it. As always we provide a uniquely drafted wallpaper, which fits the milestone of 10 years of Netrunner and the 20th version release." Further details and screenshots can be found in the distribution's release announcement. At this time a more minimal "Core" edition of Netrunner 20.01 is planned, though not yet available.
Netrunner 20.01 -- Running the Plasma desktop
(full image size: 654kB, resolution: 1280x720 pixels)
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 1,836
- Total data uploaded: 30.4TB
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) |
Void's unusual features
In this week's review of the Void distribution we touched on a number of unusual features the project offers. These include the runit init software, the XBPS software manager, the musl C library, and using the LibreSSL library in place of OpenSSL. These features combine to make Void one of the more distinct Linux distributions in terms of underlying features and components. Which, if any of these features, appeals to you most?
You can see the results of our previous poll on using an /e/ phone in last week's edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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Unusual Void features
| LibreSSL: | 60 (6%) |
| musl C library: | 110 (11%) |
| runit: | 419 (43%) |
| XBPS: | 69 (7%) |
| Other: | 20 (2%) |
| None of the above: | 302 (31%) |
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| Website News (by Jesse Smith) |
Distributions added to waiting list
- releax os. releax os is an independent Linux distribution featuring the Xfce desktop. Packages are installed from source code and separated into application-specific directories.
- GalliumOS. GalliumOS is a distribution built for ChromeOS devices which is based on Xubuntu.
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DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 2 March 2020. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Article Search page. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
- Bruce Patterson (podcast)
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| Extended Lifecycle Support by TuxCare |
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Void (by nanome on 2020-02-24 00:38:19 GMT from United Kingdom)
I have used Void Linux for many years. The sound issue is one I cannot crack, but am mostly pleased to not be interupted by noisy web sites [I run MX if i want to listen to music or podcasts]. I did not answer the opinion poll as I consider all of the features listed to be important.
To shutdown Void, logout from the desktop and move the mouse pointer to the bottom-right corner of the lxdm screen: Quit appears. Clicking on the Quit button shows Reboot or Shutdown as options. I know, not very friendly for first time users.
2 • GalliumOS (by greenpossum on 2020-02-24 01:38:03 GMT from Australia)
Not so long ago I had some fun trying out GalliumOS with a ChromeBox I picked out of e-waste. I logged the saga here: https://hackaday.io/project/169535-restoring-an-asus-chromebox-cn60
It worked fine, but eventually I pivoted to openSUSE, a mainstream Linux distro, because it supported the network interface out of the flash key, whereas I would have to get an extra driver for GalliumOS. To be fair this was because in GalliumOS the network interface driver was a DKMS module.
3 • Void (by name_is_mandatory on 2020-02-24 02:25:22 GMT from United States)
I ran it for a while, nice fast Linux. I also hope runit gets more adopted. Maybe by MX one day?!?
It is not for beginners, though. Since I'm relative beginner in Linux world, it was too much for me. Because of small dev team, not that many software is available. No problem, if you can package it on your own. I can't.
When I at some point ran into problem I couldn't fix, I moved on. But problem was this users lack of knowledge, not Void's. Void gets 10 from me. Hope they do well in the future.
4 • Artix Linux - The Runit Version (by David on 2020-02-24 03:24:09 GMT from United States)
I'm currently testing the Runit version of the Arch-based distro Artix Linux on my bare metal demo box.
It is pretty slick so far, except for a boot sequence issue that causes it to hang on start-up occasionally, which I think it may be related to the brevity of the HDD initialization time frame. I'm tinkering with a couple of BIOS settings in my effort to isolate & fix the problem on my PC. It may also be related to the fact that I dumped the initially installed Cinnamon DE, and replaced it with XFCE4. The solutions offered in the Artix Wiki are inconclusive, so my testing will continue.
The distro also offers OpenRC and S6 versions, but I prefer Runit because of the bloat-busting minimal number of lines of code required for it, vs. Systemd or the somewhat archaic OpenRC.
You'll find it at #84 on the DW/HPD ranking list - https://artixlinux.org/
JMHO
5 • Void (by Wellenjäger on 2020-02-24 03:34:56 GMT from Russia)
I use Void on my home PC for three months on a daily basis.
The LXQt edition (with glibc libraries) has no issues with sound, reboot or PolicyKit. Absolutely no complaints.
Void has become my favourite OS.
6 • Void (by Yuma Joe on 2020-02-24 03:35:53 GMT from United States)
The musl library is not the one that is most commonly used. That may cause some of your problems. Quote "There is no default graphical package manager for Void." This is a big deal to me. Also using the cfdisk partition manager instead of the more modern gparted can cause problems for new users. The last time I tested it I had sound, don't have a clue there. Wish them best of luck!
7 • Void Linux (by Saleem Khan Marwat on 2020-02-24 03:53:38 GMT from Pakistan)
Installed Void through chroot from my Arch Linux last night with Plasma, and it was like a breeze setting up system . Runit is very simple . As someone mentioned in comments about Artix with runit , will test install it from chroot as well. Runit is just very simple to manage.
8 • void (by pin on 2020-02-24 06:32:21 GMT from Sweden)
I've been using Void on top of musl-libC for 4 years without a break. Running AwesomeWM, booting in UEFI mode and have sound.
I don't have pulseaudio, just alsa. You should enable the alsa service, unlike systemd, runit does not enable services by default, THANKS FOR THAT!
Your issue with shutdown/reboot is also a service enabling away. But, this I don't care about, running on a window manager instead of a DE, I've just created a menu entry that executes 'sudo poweroff' or 'sudo reboot' without password by tweaking the sudoers file to allow this.
As for the poll, all the options are a reason to use Void.
9 • @4 - Artix (by Andy Prough on 2020-02-24 07:13:43 GMT from United States)
I am also a convert to Artix. It's unreal how well it runs and how much software is available. I thought Debian was the king of software, but Artix with the Arch and AUR repositories is in an entirely different league.
You said openRC is more archaic than run it, but I see that the openRC project began in 2007 whereas the runit project began 3 years earlier in 2004. Did you mean archaic in terms of age, or more in terms of structure or function? I'm trying the different versions. S6 seemed a bit unstable, but openRC seems to be the primary init system for Artix with the best stability and support. Let me know your thoughts if you have time.
I've also seen the occasional boot hang up. I figured the system may simply be too fast for bios on a regular basis. Boot times are typically in the range of 5 seconds on Artix with my had which is kind of crazy.
10 • Artix Boot & Re-Boot Hanging Issue (by David on 2020-02-24 08:02:25 GMT from United States)
@9
These are the BIOS settings that I'm testing to possibly resolve the boot/re-boot hanging issue in Artix Linux /Runit - YMMV, in accordance with your CPU/BIOS/motherboard generation.
(1) After entering Set-up, scroll over to Devices, and down to Hard Disk Pre-Delay, hit Enter. You can set the number of seconds for your drive initialization, which may not be given sufficient time by default after the Artix install. I have mine set at 6 seconds presently, but experiment with this setting.
(2) Experiment with Boot Priority in the Start settings, either UEFI or Legacy.
(3) Experiment with Quick Boot, either Enabled or Disabled.
My test box is a Lenovo /Intel i3-530 most of the time, though I'm testing on an i5-4590 as well. Their BIOS set-ups are different, and AMD CPU's are a completely different snarling, hairy beast that sends me screaming into the night.
My understanding of OpenRC is that it is a management layer that sits on top of, and integrates with Sysvinit, which is an "ancestor" init sytem with no process supervision. The OpenRC framework introduces additional complexity as it fills the system management gaps in the outdated Sysvinit functionality.
Runit was built from the ground up to simplify the init function with as few lines of code as are needed.
I read somewhere that SystemD represents One Million+ lines of code, in comparison to about 1,600 lines of code for Runit. Please, anyone, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of these points. I'm still near the bottom of the Linux learning curve .
JMHO
11 • Installing from the web (by SuperOscar on 2020-02-24 09:49:56 GMT from Finland)
From the Manjaro news: “In a future version we will enable also installation from web.” Well isn’t that nice. After all these years advocating the Linux model of a centralized repository instead of scouring-and-installing trash from the world wide web, we are now getting back to square one!
12 • void (by blargle on 2020-02-24 10:40:32 GMT from United States)
imagine reinventing several wheels just because it's popular to dislike systemd
13 • @12 (by pin on 2020-02-24 11:05:06 GMT from Sweden)
It ain't all about systemd and BTW is was systemd that reinvented the wheel, not the otherway.
UNIX doesn't need systemd.
14 • VOID (by m3city on 2020-02-24 11:12:37 GMT from Poland)
I have considered checking this distro. It says "Void is a general purpose operating system" on its homepage. But when I read that screenshot key is assigned, but it does not work, and there is a link for email app, but it's not even installed.... that is laughable.
15 • Manjaro (by m3city on 2020-02-24 11:17:20 GMT from Poland)
@11
It's not exactly the case (I guess web app store would be still pointing to sources lists, like ppa). BUT it was kind of funny to read about Gobolinux few days ago here on DW, which basicly turns clutter of linux system layout to MS Windows like structure <-- clean, readable, easy to access and modify.
16 • @12 Void (by Hoos on 2020-02-24 11:17:32 GMT from Singapore)
What wheels have been reinvented by Void? Have you actually tried Void?
I quite like it even though it's not for newcomers and requires some manual setup of services.
Surprisingly for a rolling distro, you can go literally months on end without updating, yet still carry out your next update quickly and trouble-free.
I installed an older iso image that came with cinnamon desktop, which was about 6-7 months out of date, and then proceeded to upgrade it. No issues despite the huge amount of updates. It's still ticking away nicely a few years later.
So once it's set up, it's quite easy to maintain.
17 • @10 OpenRC (by dxrobertson on 2020-02-24 11:23:08 GMT from United States)
"My understanding of OpenRC is that it is a management layer that sits on top of, and integrates with Sysvinit, which is an "ancestor" init sytem with no process supervision. The OpenRC framework introduces additional complexity as it fills the system management gaps in the outdated Sysvinit functionality."
It depends on the implementation. That is true in Debian/Devuan OpendRC; OpenRC has been modified for LSB support. It doesnt use openrc-init, uses initab, and uses sysvinit scripts.
Not so in Artix OpenRC. Its a full OpenRC implementation; uses openrc-init and OpenRC init scripts in /etc/init.d.
18 • @6: GUI frontend for Void package installation (by Uncle Slacky on 2020-02-24 12:26:51 GMT from United States)
Void does have octoxbps available in its repos - it's like octopkg for BSD: https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/tree/master/srcpkgs/octoxbps
19 • Void - package search, octoxbps (by Hoos on 2020-02-24 12:52:31 GMT from Singapore)
Void also has a useful web page where you can make package searches, even if you don't use a graphical frontend like octoxbps:
https://voidlinux.org/packages/
For run of the mill usage, I don't really find it lacking in packages.
20 • Void is the Best (by mcg on 2020-02-24 13:52:23 GMT from Finland)
Void Linux is all Linux user needs who knows what he wants and doing. One can find it difficult then use a distro which is windows like or study Linux and then come back to Void. Reviewer has forgotten to mention that Void Linux uses LibreSSL instead of OpenSSL. Long live Void! Thank you yo developers! Have a nice day!
21 • Poll options (by Friar Tux on 2020-02-24 13:58:24 GMT from Canada)
I picked the last one - "None of the above." as it doesn't really matter to me so long as the OS works flawlessly. That's about the only "preference" I have. I hate post-install fiddling to get an OS working. I hate having to "maintain" an OS to keep it working. That's why I prefer a general purpose OS with a good development team behind it (I use Linux Mint/Cinnamon). While Void, and similar projects are great, some of us just want to get our stuff done with as little fuss as possible. Note to systemd haters: seems to me that systemd is working great on a lot of OS's, more so than the other init systems. All the systemd-run OS's I've run seemed to do just fine. And, since I value experience more than opinion I'll stick with what I find works best.
22 • @10--There's only one VERY LARGE problem with *systemd* (by R. Cain on 2020-02-24 14:05:20 GMT from United States)
@ 10 --
According to "*The Register*" on 6 January, '20, SYSTEMD consisted of a paltry 1.3 MILLION LINES of code. And that was over longer than one month ago. It's probably up to 1.4 million lines, by now.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/01/06/linux_2020_kernel_systemd_code/
...and the question still gets asked, "Why don't you like 'systemd'?
Let me count the 1.3 (10⁶) ways...
23 • Artix Linux & OpenRC (by David on 2020-02-24 16:22:43 GMT from United States)
@17
Thanks for the enlightened clarification about the Artix OpenRC implementation. I'm going to download the ISO and install it on my demo PC this week-end. The Runit boot/re-boot hanging issue persists for me, despite all my BIOS setting-tweaking efforts. That stability conundrum makes me nervous about deploying Artix as my daily production driver, so I'll be testing the OpenRC version soon.
I keep hoping that the next relevant package or kernel update will solve the boot hang dilemma, but it hasn't happened yet.
@22
Here's an interesting link as well - "6 Best Linux init systems as of 2020" - https://www.slant.co/topics/4663/~linux-init-systems
Reading through the Pro's and Con's of SystemD taught me that SystemD "phones home " to Google DNS servers by default, which may or may not be of concern to any given user.
As much as I love pure, plain vanilla Arch, if I can ditch the insidious & expanding bloat of SystemD, I'll be working to make it so. I don't hate SystemD, but its system encroachment is a source of concern for a KISS advocate such as myself.
JMHO
24 • Void Linux (by Voiduser on 2020-02-24 16:42:46 GMT from United States)
Void doesn't use systemD because systemD is incompatible with musl libc. One of the goals of the project is to support glibc and musl libc on multiple architectures, so an init system that can build/link against musl had to be selected. A lot of anti-systemD people flock to Void because of runit - not realizing that Void was originally an early adopter of systemD.
Regardless, one key thing to keep in mind with Void is that package dependencies are kept to a minimum. This is to avoid the trap that Ubuntu, Arch and others fall into with an innocuous package dragging in dozens and dozens of soft dependencies. If you want a screen-shot tool for XFCE - install one.
25 • Artix + Runit hanging (by nanome on 2020-02-24 18:00:28 GMT from United Kingdom)
@10: I couldn't boot the Artix/Runit lxde ISO on my spare machine, but I will try to help with the [re]boot issue. First, the runit init scripts on Void are totally different from the G. Pape originals [smarden.org/runit], and so the Artix scripts probably are different again. However, the sh-scripts are in /etc/runit/{1,2,3}, so you might be able to work out where it is hanging provided you can get the init output to the terminal [try ctrl-alt-1?]. The Atrix forum appears lively, so you should ask a question there. There must be a way to boot Artix in terminal mode [or to install it without graphs. Beyond that, Arch linux was always a dead end for me..
26 • Void (by Cynic on 2020-02-24 18:31:45 GMT from Ghana)
I used void a few months..
Wasn't bad but ended up going back to Slackware after an update broke some software.. found out there was no way to "downgrade" to the last (stable) package. That is an issue in my mind.. updates may not be "forced" but once they're installed, that's it.
I'm also not sure how "general purpose" a system can be when having all the sound issues mentioned.
The community was also unwavering in their support of Voids lack of "package downgrades", almost to the point of being rude when calling it out as an issue. To me that indicates a serious lack of vision and flexibility. I doubt "server" would also fit under their definition of "general purpose".. as breaking it would not be easily undone die to its design.
27 • Void+Sound (by nanome on 2020-02-24 19:51:59 GMT from United Kingdom)
@26: I would briefly say that sound just started working on my Void machine! Nothing that I did, although I recently brought the XBPS packages up to date. I just have to press the "Sound Off" button to avoid hearing voices.
28 • Void (by Roger on 2020-02-24 20:06:32 GMT from Belgium)
The reason I like Linux is the stability it has, a thing that is severely lacking at windows 10.
No drastic changes, evolution and not messing around like MS is doing.
My choice is Debian based OS, Linux Mint Mate my main one and keeping an eye on Ubuntu Mate and other Debian based ones.
For that reason I will not in the near future test Void, just follow the news and maybe one day.
29 • Artix & Openrc, etc (by Martin on 2020-02-24 21:17:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
@10 Thanks for those tips, I will be saving your post as I have experienced difficulty booting occasionally with Artix -Openrc.
@23 Thanks for the link on init systems, it confirms my fear that Systemd is unnecessarily heavy on resources, which I strive to avoid. I can thoroughly recommend Artix btw, great distro and helpful community.
30 • LOC is a bad measure of poor design (by CS on 2020-02-24 23:31:58 GMT from United States)
You can't innovate without writing a few lines of code. How's that cgroups implemetation in init.d coming along? Not at all you say?
31 • 'runit' is fabulous (by Unknown on 2020-02-24 23:54:45 GMT from Brazil)
.
>> I do wish more projects considered runit seriously though, it is a gem of an init system, very light, easy to understand, and flexible. I would be happy to see it adopted elsewhere. <<
Years ago, I tried VOID and didn't like it because of some disappointing issues. But it's true that 'runit' impressed me a lot. Then I also think this great init system should really be adopted by other Linux developers, starting by Pat Volkerding.
The main systemd-free communities (Slackware, antiX, MX, Devuan, PCLinuxOS) can make it grow (not in size, I wish :) and strongly react against Mr. Poettering's evil empire. More than a million and three hundred code lines just to boot a distro is a little too much, isn't it?
.
32 • New definition for "FEW": one-million, three hundred thousand. (by R. Cain on 2020-02-25 02:00:53 GMT from United States)
@ 30 --
Absolutely implicit in what you're saying is that one can NOT innovate without writing AT LEAST one million, three-hundred-thousand lines of code, where 25,000 would be much more than adequate..
This is a technical forum; not a political venue--
Stating that "You can't innovate without writing A FEW LINES OF CODE..." is about as transparent and vacuous as you could get as far as TRYING to make your point, particularly when it has been pointed out, in no uncertain terms, that your "...few lines of code..." are ONLY 1,300,000. Try harder.
I'm curious: just exactly WHAT do you consider a "LARGE amount of code"?
33 • Artix Runit & OpenRC Boot Issues Unresolved (by David on 2020-02-25 02:10:50 GMT from United States)
@ 29
I made a slight error in the first tip.
In your Set-up menu, you should scroll over to Devices, then scroll down to ATA Drive, hit Enter to find the Hard Disk Pre-Delay settings in increments of three seconds each.
I wouldn't necessarily continue to be advising or promoting any of the steps that I've outlined, since as I said in @23, the problem still persists, and it's distressing to hear that you've had a similar malfunction with the Artix/OpenRC version. But I certainly wouldn't discourage your attempts to fix the problem with BIOS setting manipulation.
It would appear that there is fundamental a coding error in that exists in the Artix implementations of both init systems. It is not an uncommon complaint, as I've found the issue discussed in the Artix forums as far back as 2018, and my reading also suggests that it remains a largely unresolved malfunction.
I read that it most commonly affects older hardware, so it may be that my PC's are the source of the incompatibility issue. It's not a deal breaker, as I do have hopes that the problem will ultimately be resolved.
I do prefer the lean and mean Runit over the ballooning SystemD code bloat by a country mile, so I'll continue to work with it.
By the way, I've tried to install Void a couple of times, and it failed to boot on each attempt. I'll stick with the Arch branch of the Linux tree, which I've installed and run easily on thirteen year-old hardware.
JMHO
34 • Void Linux (by Otis on 2020-02-25 02:33:07 GMT from United States)
I love the approach! The choices. Reading about Void restores more of my faith in Linux all around. No, I have not tried it, but do have Trident on another machine as an experiment. This whole thing is very interesting to me.
35 • cgroups and init (by Jesse on 2020-02-25 02:49:22 GMT from Canada)
@30: "How's that cgroups implemetation in init.d coming along? Not at all you say?"
I'd like to point out two things with regards to this idea. The first is that cgroups can be handled in many cases by using shell commands, meaning the implementation has always been there. Whether people use it when they write their initscripts is another matter. So implementing cgroups in SysV init takes zero lines of code. It just takes a handful of lines in the respective start-up scripts in distros that want to use cgroups. In other words, it isn't handled upstream in init, it's handled by the distros/services which use init.
The second point I'd like to make is that things like cgroups is something that, for philosophical reasons, would not be added to classic init implementations (like sysvinit, runit, etc) because they follow the UNIX Philosophy of doing one thing well, being small, and having a specific focus. Things like cgroup management can be tacked on top of classic inits, in an add-on layer, but it would not be added to init itself as that would be considered (from their point of view) poor design.
In summary, nothing prevents distros from using cgroups with classic inits, it is just that the implementation needs to happen at a different layer. With systemd everything is "baked in" while with classic inits new features are added as optional add-on modules.
36 • Void - Frustration (by Michael on 2020-02-25 05:25:01 GMT from Australia)
I tried void with Cinnamon desktop and was impressed with it finding my wifi connection and my Epson wifi printer. It installed in 5 minutes and boots on an old Core-2 machine in 35 seconds. Now the frustration. I used the commands in the review for XBPS and they failed to work, The problem was no repositories were set up. To set up a repo you create a file in /etc/xbps.d but there is no text editor to write to a file, not even nano or vim. So I download nano in a .tar.gz format but there is no Archive manager to extract the file.
It seems you need to a second computer to do a lot of the work and then copy files over to the Void machine. Surely they should provide at least the basic tools to set up a repo so we can install some software. The only software included, apart from setup tools, is Firefox.
I also found the sound problem in Cinnamon but not the "Policy Kit" problem mentioned in the review.
37 • Li/e/s and half truths (by Another Del/e/ted Person on 2020-02-25 06:17:55 GMT from Austria)
Installing popular, play store apps on a "degoogled" device with microg just "re-googles" the device. Pretending otherwise is folly and false advertising.
38 • GalliumOS (by hotdiggettydog on 2020-02-25 06:45:11 GMT from Canada)
I'm surprised to see Gallium on the waiting list. It should have been listed long ago.
I'm using it on 2 chromebooks. Other distros will install and run but Gallium supports hardware specific to chromebooks. Sound on my machines only work properly with Gallium for example.
It's pretty much Xubuntu setup for chromebooks. They do a decent job.
39 • Isn't /e/ phone just LineageOS? (by Matt on 2020-02-25 06:47:57 GMT from United States)
I don't see how this /e/ phone OS is any different than installing LineageOS without the Gapps packages. That option has been around for years, back when LineageOS was called cyanogenmod. Living without the Google Play Store is difficult, and as soon as you have Google Play services running, Google owns your phone completely. Even without Gapps installed LineageOS includes a bunch of binary firmware code that is not open source.
If you really are hard core about privacy and fully open source, then you could use the Replicant OS that has all the closed source stuff removed. However, that probably means that your GPS, bluetooth, and cellular modem no longer work. If you really care about privacy, you simply cannot use a cellular phone today.
40 • @39 Avoid /e/ at all costs (by machete_Badger on 2020-02-25 07:52:43 GMT from South Africa)
Yes you're correct, in actuality this is more like the spin called microg LineageOS, which does exactly what /e/ set out to do but with better intentions and saner development.
I'm mostly disappointed that this rubbish is getting coverage on this site, when it should be avoid at all costs necessary, anyone can read up on the controversies here: https://ewwlo.xyz/evil.html
Just stick to Lineage with/without microG and you're all set.
41 • @14 (by Jimothy on 2020-02-25 11:07:37 GMT from United States)
" But when I read that screenshot key is assigned, but it does not work, and there is a link for email app, but it's not even installed.... that is laughable. "
Xfce's default config assigns those things. If you want them installed, install them.
42 • @36 (by Jimothy on 2020-02-25 11:11:23 GMT from United States)
Void ships with vim as the default text editor. You could have installed nano during the installation process. It also comes with the default Finland alpha repo installed and enabled. You most likely failed to properly set up and configure your network. You can edit your xbps.d config file in vim and configure your network properly to get access to the software repos. But to be clear, this is something you broke, not something the installation didn't provide you.
43 • Void Linux and Project Trident (by Barnabyh on 2020-02-25 16:39:49 GMT from United Kingdom)
^ The Google Translate extension in really handy to have installed right now if you're reading this in Chrome.
Apart from this, the only comment I have to make this week is that I have installed both Void and Trident in the last few days. Trident would be my preferred avenue to get Void onto my machines, it was immensely fast, less than three minutes to install, and worked. With Void something went wrong at the boot loader stage but I haven't had the time to look into and troubleshoot it. Just rough, early impressions. Will try again.
Have a good week all.
44 • void (by koolaid guzzler on 2020-02-25 17:03:30 GMT from United States)
Not a fan of void. Some of the earliest systemd pushers and the project is a mess. It's not a surprise though because of the people running it. They should call it systemdvoid because so many involved in the project seem to be systemdvoid of morality. I don't care if they don't use it anymore. They have OTHER problems I want to stay far away from.
45 • void and morality @45 (by nanome on 2020-02-25 19:21:05 GMT from United Kingdom)
@44: please do tell us all about void "morality" issues.
46 • distro choices (by Andre on 2020-02-25 22:36:39 GMT from New Zealand)
A distro needs simply to get a job done. I went through a stage of trying up to ten distros a month. Now I maybe glance at one or two out of curiosity - just in case something noteworthy has changed (usually not). My main production workflow machines are on: (i) Mint 19.3 cinnamon and (ii) Manjaro cinnamon. Hmm, I like that cinnamon desktop :) Two workhorse that try to melt their CPUs for science are on MX Linux, but that is flaky and I just converted one to Solus 4.1. Now it runs perfectly and laptop #2 is now due for its upgrade away from MX for which I'm considering KDE neon. And because each of us has different use cases and needs all these distros have a place. YMWVFM - your mileage will vary from mine, always.
47 • Init system (by Eric vidal on 2020-02-26 03:26:37 GMT from New Caledonia)
You want a complete different init system than systemd with the "same" features but only doing init and service management with no more than 30 thousand lines of code?
s6: https://skarnet.org/software/s6/
s6-rc: https://skarnet.org/software/s6-rc
66: http://web.obarun.org/software/66
This set of program provide:
- Init
- PID 1
- Supervisor
- Service management
Really fast, secure, reliable, works from 11 years now (not for 66 which is younger).
Bugs (if any) are considered and fixed quickly (no "not a bug" fallacious arguments).
Can be build with glibc or musl.
Works out of the box: Many POC was made on Funtoo, Void, Antix, Arch, Devuan, KISS linux,... (see thread: s6 and 66 does it works, does it boot https://forum.obarun.org/viewforum.php?id=10)
Provide feature like:
- Frontend service file declaration with a style like INI format (easy to understand and write)
- Nested supervision tree (classic user can deal with service)
- Instantiated service
- Automatic logger creation (each service have they own logger)
- Easy change of the service configuration file
- Concept of a tree web.obarun.org/software/66/66-tree.html (AFAIK this is the only init supervision system that provide this kind of option)
- Easy to see the state of a service even the associated log file (no binary, all log are readable by human)
- ...
One time you use it you will never come back on any other init system... or not...
Try it and you will see
48 • Void (by Andy Figueroa on 2020-02-26 05:15:55 GMT from United States)
I fail to see the attraction of another fairly unique Linux distribution supported by a small team of volunteers. I'm quite happy with Gentoo, OpenRC, and OpenSSL.
49 • alt init systems (by nanome on 2020-02-26 09:50:04 GMT from United Kingdom)
@47: why did you not include Runit in your list: 6k sloC, service managment, etc. Whllst only Void, Artix and Trident use it, it can be installed on other distros [I know, I installed it on Devuan at one time].
50 • runit (by anticapitalista on 2020-02-26 15:44:53 GMT from Greece)
@49
antiX also has a runit version.
http://iso.mxrepo.com/Downloads/Final/antiX-19/
51 • Many things brought up as responses to the poorly researched review (by Signoftheantigod on 2020-02-26 16:46:36 GMT from Greece)
1st, just yesterday I attended this friends neglected old 2core amd machine that I had set up 2 years ago. The system was cloned and used today without problems, she needed a home theater machine. It had void installed last logged in May2018 with linux4.16 on it. It booted fine and the desktop opened up like it was yesterday. I upgraded everything and rebooted, if anything changed it got faster. That was void-musl on AMD 2core. No efi, just bios.
2nd If there is any criticism in the review that holds water is the poor and sloppy live-image put together by less experienced team members. Not having an easy console based editor, other than vi, is a serious mistake (despite of the bitter negation by vi fanatics). If one looks at the void buildbot one can tell that the void team is enormous. Which brings a question to organization of all those people that contribute to void. There has never been any disclosure of how void works, apart from a group of friends that work in secret. A founder vanished, the project almost fell apart, it recovered and stood on its feet, then the phantom is back in unclear relation to the team. How can this unreliable entity regain control of a distribution when his own actions nearly killed it?
3rd The void project is very well documented, one of the best, this is where most of distributions are lacking. It doesn't deserve this. If one was to engage in a serious review of a distribution one needs to go a little deeper than a half hour quick glance. Arch-Linux, by comparison, is a tiny midget in comparison, even though Arch-based distros are very popular, clones and forks of the midget.
Show some respect, there are only a handful of true distributions based on Linux, and nearly all have been consumed by IBM's, google's, oracle's, HP's, facebook's commercial interests. Gentoo and Void are among the few that provide some little hope on linux, otherwise the open and free software is restricted to clunky BSD-land, which feels like 20yo linux.
Void deserves better than this, it may not be perfect, but it is as close as you get while resisting the proprietary invasion.
PS Utilizing a slap on the face of Void's maintainers and developers to advertise other distros is not really a good idea. Some of those advertised here have also received a similar slap in the face. Grow up and stop being cannibals.
52 • @49 and @51 (by Andy Prough on 2020-02-26 18:51:16 GMT from United States)
@49:
> antiX also has a runit version. http://iso.mxrepo.com/Downloads/Final/antiX-19/
I'm surprised you aren't promoting your latest work, anticapitalista. antiX 19.1 is also available with runit: http://iso.mxrepo.com/Downloads/Final/antiX-19.1/
@51:
> Arch-Linux, by comparison, is a tiny midget in comparison
This gave me a good laugh.
53 • re: Many things brought up as responses to the poorly researched review (by nanome on 2020-02-26 19:11:45 GMT from United Kingdom)
@51 "Signoftheantigod": your remarks on the Void linux project come on the back of lurid attacks by "koolaid guzzler" @44 on the morality of its previous leader [I will not include personal information here].
I was aware of the chaotic way in which the project emerged from the founders departure, but I was pleased to find the excellent paper by Michael Aldridge [michaelwashere.net/post/2018-11-28-enobdfl] which sets out the historical facts. It explains the difficulties faced by the individual creators of an international linux distribution when the central figures walk away.
A few years back, I wanted to contribute actual money to the Void project, but couldn't. It sounds like you have information about the return of the "phantom" to take control over Void linux: please tell us more.
I prefer writing about technology, but felt the need to express my concern over the tone of the comments here. [sorry Jesse].
54 • Void (by cykodrone on 2020-02-26 19:50:54 GMT from Germany)
@22 lol xD SystemD(epartmentOfBigBroSpyware), the second they gave systemd networking, was like fully extended arm, pinched nose holding a dirty diaper.
Void sounds pretty cool, actually, never tried it nbut intrigued. All the 'not friendly' whining doesn't scare me, tinkering is fun. Thanks for the nice review and screenshots.
55 • Void (by mmphosis on 2020-02-27 12:37:06 GMT from Canada)
Thanks Jesse. This is the review I've been waiting for.
As a result, I installed 64-bit Xfce edition with the musl library, and I am using Void now. This is my first time, successfully, using a rolling release Linux distribution. I do like to hold off on the bleeding edge, but there is a lot to like in rolling release: XFCE 4.14 with many nice little fixes and advantages over 4.12. I installed elogind and it has cleared up the Xfce PolicyKit Agent error, and as a result the Restart and Shutdown menu items are now enabled. Switch User is still disabled but I've had these issues before with XFCE, so seeing them in Void is nothing new.
Runit seems very lightweight and simple. I have no problem with systemd, but my PC needs all the help it can get in the speed department otherwise I would call it a day and use Linux Mint and stop all this futzing around with configuration. Void seems very fast, not just because of the init system, but musl and the slimmed down approach to the point of some things being broken/missing like sound. I installed alsa, pulse audio, pavucontrol to get sound and volume keys working. Parole crashed for me too, so I installed VLC.
Void has had some good results over in the PowerPC world of old PowerPC Macs and also for newer Talos machines. https://www.talospace.com/2020/01/bonuses-for-big-endian.html
I hope to make Void my "usual" distro. Thanks again for the feature story.
56 • Void (by Justin on 2020-02-27 15:57:55 GMT from United States)
My experience with Void has been different. I originally used Archbang OpenRC on an old netbook. I wanted all the speed I could get and found it booted faster than the systemd variant. Archbang was great until the Artix migration of Arch OpenRC. They dropped policykit support, and I couldn't make elogind work the way they expected. The last straw was mkinitcpio never being able to build a bootable image again.
So, I switched to Void running LXLE. I also chose the musl version for similar reasons to @55. I found Void to work all right, but either it or LXLE or both were just not as snappy as Archbang. I tried to optimize the boot time with runit and found that that is not a good idea. The init system is a simple shell script, but it lacks any smarts. I ended up making my own version to spawn processes together and then spent hours trying to figure out which can start together and which need to wait. On my machine, each shell script that launches takes an extra 1s of boot time. I don't use startx for that reason, and I started globbing all the init scripts together to save time.
Long story short, I moved on. I longed for the snappier days of Arch, so I tried making my own Arch spin using shell scripts to install and configure my version, essentially rebuilding Archbang. I realized with all that hacking that I wanted dependency resolution, which is one thing systemd offers, so I bit the bullet and went that direction. It generally works fine except for some issues systemd-logind has that prevents X from starting. I could file a bug report but I expect @47's "that's not a bug, don't use feature X with Y" response.
57 • runit (by Martin on 2020-02-27 19:33:49 GMT from United Kingdom)
@50 I didn't know that anti! I have been using AntiX for years and had never heard of the runit version, must pay more attention.....!
58 • reinventing the wheel (by Gary W on 2020-02-28 00:49:37 GMT from Australia)
@13 Indeed! It always seemed to me that systemd was/is a solution desperately in search of a problem. There may come a day when systemd is thought of as a problem rather than a solution. Continuing development of alternatives (other than sysvinit of course, which could be called "fully developed") leads one to think that there are people who already see systemd as a problem.
59 • Strip Initramfs for Boot Speed (by Embedded Systems Engineer on 2020-02-28 01:23:07 GMT from United States)
@56 Justin - That's not moving on, but circling aimlessly. Anyone so willing to hack boot for speed has one answer: strip initramfs. Compile a kernel with driver modules needed. Boot straight into it from your bootloader. This method works in any distro. Void is a good bet, as it's used in embedded systems this way.
Stripping has nada to do with init scripts. It's about kernels and GRUB and such. For init scripting, look into s6 and 66, available in Void repos. They handle complex dependencies, if you have any. Those dependencies are, like said kernel, precompiled. Coming from Arch, you could try Obarun, which ships s6+66 out of the box, leaving only initramfs stripping to accomplish.
60 • Boot Speeds (by Cynic on 2020-02-28 03:29:42 GMT from Ghana)
I am still trying to understand why there is such a concern with boot speeds.. especially on a system which shouldn't require daily boots to begin with.
As long as it doesn't take MS server startup times, it doesn't bother me.
What does matter to me:
1. Does it always boot or do random issues occur?
2. Is it fast once booted?
A fast boot into a slow system seems to give people the misconception that faster boot equates to faster "runtimes" in the OS.. this is a falicy.
My two cents..
61 • @ 60 Boot Speeds (by OstroL on 2020-02-28 08:51:52 GMT from Poland)
These days, boot speeds are a concern. Right now, Linux distros are somewhat slow at booting. I have a Windows 10 2 in 1 with Pentium N4200 @1.1GHz, which boots practically immediately. It is the same with Samsung Tab S5e. But, my Linux laptop with much faster processor takes some time to boot.
62 • @61 - Try Solus! (by Uncle Slacky on 2020-02-28 11:00:29 GMT from United States)
If you want fast booting, try Solus. The developers have done a lot of boot time optimisation work on it. It boots in a few seconds, even on my Pentium N5000 laptop (though it does have an SSD).
63 • @59, @60 (by Justin on 2020-02-28 15:23:46 GMT from India)
@60: "especially on a system which shouldn't require daily boots to begin with"
If that were the case, I might agree. I use the netbook sparingly for quick browsing where I need more than a phone and more portability than a desktop. If I can wait 10s instead of 30s, why shouldn't I? It fits my use case where I might use it once or twice a day and then not at all for a week.
@59: I don't know if it's "aimless" circling, but it is circling. :) At the time, I stripped initramfs and saved 0.5s. If I switched "startx" for "startx /usr/bin/openbox" I saved ~1s and embedding startx into my .bashrc saved another 1s (they were in the critical path where everything was waiting on them to complete). I used bootchart and now systemd-bootchart to measure timings. I could save another 2s if Xorg could stop blocking while waiting to discover my keyboard, but I'm not hacking Xorg. I took a lot of tips from the "boot Linux in 5 seconds" article, so I had goals and budgets. The netbook requires udev to boot because of the quirky emmc (I followed Arch's article). Without compiling my own code, which I thought about with Gentoo, I pushed it about as far as I could go.
The snappiness I referred to was overall perceived desktop speed, not boot time. I don't know a way to measure UI responsiveness quantitatively (if someone does, please comment next week). I felt Arch's openbox + tint2 was faster than Void's LXDE built on openbox.
I'll take a look at Obarun. I found it after I had put in the work. The complex dependencies really are from looking at bootchart and wanting my processor and I/O to max out during all phases of the boot. Again, refer to that booting in 5 seconds article. Having an idle processor waiting on a timeout is wasteful, so I'd rather have 20 processes like that trying to run and fill in all the gaps. That's why threading brings benefits even on single core CPUs.
64 • @62 (by OstroL on 2020-02-28 15:24:21 GMT from Poland)
Solus is also slow at booting, just like all other Linux distros. The thing is, it takes some time to start all services, before coming to the login screen. Android Tab must be always on to boot up so fast, just after tapping the screen and touching the fingerprint scanner. Windows 10 2 in 1 is not always on, but boots up quite fast, after pushing the start button and the fingerprint scanner. Don't know how Windows does it, but quite interesting. Maybe, the Linux distro devs should dual boot with Windows to find out how (instead of using Macbooks).
Solus' Budgie is stuck in 10.5.1, I suppose, since Ikey left, so not that interesting any more.
65 • @64 (by Cynic on 2020-02-28 16:48:33 GMT from Ghana)
Most likely you don't have full shutdown enabled. Windows 10 by default does not do a "traditional" shutdown, but rather makes it look like it did. This option must be disabled in order to mount the drive/partition outside of windows. When "coldbooting" windows 10, it is rarely faster than the average Linux.
In regards to shaving seconds off or a 10s vs 30s boot, I would have to ask if the 20 seconds really makes that much of a difference.. unless of course you're Elon Musk and just wasted a chunk of your 5 minute schedule segment :)
I still see no point in having a fast boot, especially if booting into a system which may be buggier or open apps slower.. I tend to worry more about the speed of what I'm doing rather than the 30s it took to boot..
66 • @64 - Win10 boot times (by Andy Prough on 2020-02-28 21:32:39 GMT from United States)
@65 is correct - Win10 "achieves fast boot times" (which aren't really all that fast) by not actually shutting down. In order to shut down, you need to tell it to shut down, watch it shut down, and then hold the power button for several seconds to get it to post and shut down again. At that point it is actually shut down.
The Artix distro with openRC or runit or S6 boots even faster than "fast-boot" Win10.
Number of Comments: 66
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P!tux Linux
P!tux Linux was an operating system of the Linux family, based on Slackware Linux distribution and on kernel 2.2.x. It can be installed both on an ext2 filesystem (on a dedicated partition) or on a DOS filesystem (as a loopback device). It can be installed from DOS, Linux, in umsdos mode or via FTP. Basic installation requires a 486 PC with 8 MB RAM and 105 MB minimum hard disk space. During the installation another 150 MB will be used.
Status: Discontinued
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