 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 850, 27 January 2020 |
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Welcome to this year's 4th issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
There are many reasons to use a live operating system running from a USB thumb drive or DVD. It is portable, allowing the user to take their operating system with them. A live system is handy if we need to recover data from a broken operating system too. Perhaps most significantly, a live system can be used to test performance and hardware compatibility before we commit to installing an operating system permanently. This week we begin with a look at a FreeBSD-based operating system meant to be run from a DVD or thumb drive. The live system is called FuryBSD and we discuss how it performs in our Feature Story. We also discuss live operating systems and their performance compared to locally installed systems in our Questions and Answers column. In our News section we talk about Fedora's new Fedora CoreOS edition and Ubuntu dropping their Amazon launcher from the default install. Plus we link to Kubuntu's new official laptop provided by Tuxedo Computers. We would like to hear how you feel about distributions partnering with hardware retailers in our Opinion Poll. Is it helpful to you to have a distribution bundled with a new computer? Plus we are pleased to share the releases of the past week and list the torrents we are seeding. We wish you all a fantastic week and happy reading!
Content:
- Review: FuryBSD 12.0
- News: Fedora presents Fedora CoreOS, Kubuntu unveils official laptop, Ubuntu dropping Amazon launcher
- Questions and answers: Live distro versus installed distro performance
- Released last week: GhostBSD 20.01, Solus 4.1, Lakka 2.3.2
- Torrent corner: Bluestar, EasyOS, Fatdog64, GhostBSD, GParted Live, KDE neon, Lakka, Live Raizo, Parabola, Q4OS, Qubes OS, Robolinux, Solus, Volumio
- Opinion poll: Purchasing an official distro computer
- Reader comments
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (15MB) and MP3 (12MB) formats.
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
FuryBSD 12.0
FuryBSD is the most recent addition to the DistroWatch database and provides a live desktop operating system based on FreeBSD. FuryBSD is not entirely different in its goals from NomadBSD, which we discussed recently. I wanted to take this FreeBSD-based project for a test drive and see how it compares to NomadBSD and other desktop-oriented projects in the FreeBSD family.
FuryBSD supplies hybrid ISO/USB images which can be used to run a live desktop. There are two desktop editions currently, both for 64-bit (x86_64) machines: Xfce and KDE Plasma. The Xfce edition is 1.4GB in size and is the flavour I downloaded. The KDE Plasma edition is about 3.0GB in size.
Booting from the live media brings up the Xfce 4.14 desktop environment. Along the bottom of the screen is a panel which holds the application menu, task switcher and system tray. Icons on the desktop open the Thunar file manager, launch the system installer, and provide quick access to a Getting Started document. There are two more icons for accessing X.Org configuration options and showing system information. The Getting Started document is a quick reference text file containing command line instructions for setting up networking and installing video drivers. The System Information icon opens the Firefox web browser and displays a locally generated page which contains general information about our computer and its resource usage.
FuryBSD 12.0 -- The live Xfce desktop
(full image size: 1.2MB, resolution: 1366x768 pixels)
Installing
Launching the system installer opens a window that displays a series of text-based menus and prompts. The first screen asks us to make up a hostname for our computer. We are then shown a series of ZFS options. We can choose which disk to take over for the filesystem, along with RAID options, whether to enabling encryption, and we can set the size of swap space. This screen is not at all beginner friendly and is likely to confuse anyone not accustomed to working with ZFS, but the options all seem to work as I would hope. The installer asks if we are sure we want to wipe and take over the disks we selected and then copies its files to the hard drive.
Once the files have copied we are asked to make up a password for the root account. We can then add a new user account. We are advised to add at least one user to the wheel group. This recommendation is not explained, but it is so our user can perform administration actions. We are then asked to pick our time zone from a menu and then the system restarts.
While the installer worked well enough, something that gave me a little trouble was the screensaver came on while the operating system was being set up and locked the desktop. I did not know what the password was and it took a little trial-and-error before I came up with "furybsd" as the password. I later found the default passwords are on the project's GitHub page for the live media.
Early impressions
My fresh install of FuryBSD booted to a graphical login screen. From there I could sign into my account, which brings up the Xfce desktop. The installed version of Xfce is the same as the live version, with a few minor changes. Most of the desktop icons have been removed with just the file manager launchers remaining. The Getting Started and System Information icons have been removed. Otherwise the experience is virtually identical to the live media.
FuryBSD uses a theme that is mostly grey and white with creamy yellow folder icons. The application menu launchers tend to have neutral icons, neither particularly bright and detailed or minimal.
FuryBSD 12.0 -- The Xfce application menu
(full image size: 924kB, resolution: 1366x768 pixels)
Hardware
I tried running FuryBSD on my laptop and in a VirtualBox machine. In both test environments, the operating system ran quickly and the Xfce desktop performed smoothly. When running in VirtualBox, at first FuryBSD could not integrate the mouse pointer or use my system's full screen resolution. Once VirtualBox guest modules had been installed from the FreeBSD package repositories mouse integration worked, but I still could not get the desktop to use a higher screen resolution.
When running on my laptop, FuryBSD was able to make use of my wired network connection, but could not detect my wireless card. I used the Getting Started tips file, but the listed tools did not help. I also found applications were unable to play sound in either test environment. I will touch on this again later, but FuryBSD was entirely silent during my trial, regardless of how I adjusted the volume controls.
The operating system is fairly lean for a desktop system and requires just 2GB of disk space. Memory usage was about average, with the operating system consuming 330MB of Active memory and 290MB of Wired memory.
Applications
FuryBSD requires a smaller than normal amount of disk space because it ships with few desktop applications. We are given Firefox, the Thunar file manager, the Xfce terminal, the Xfce settings panel, and a bulk file renaming tool. The application menu contains a launcher for an e-mail client, but no e-mail application is installed. Behind the scenes we find the FreeBSD 12.0 userland tools, manual pages, and the Clang compiler.
For anything else we will need to turn to the package manager. FuryBSD does not ship with a graphical software manager, instead we can use the pkg command line package manager to install, upgrade, and remove software. We could also use FreeBSD's collection of ports if we wish to compile source packages and add customizations.
FuryBSD 12.0 -- Information on using the package manager
(full image size: 489kB, resolution: 1366x768 pixels)
The Firefox browser worked well for the most part. I had no trouble visiting most websites. However, I could not get YouTube videos to play. Videos would load, but refuse to start. I also had trouble with local multimedia. I installed the VLC and mpv players. Both media players would show video, but were unable to produce sound, for either video or audio files.
Both the sudo and doas privilege escalation tools are installed. I found sudo is not configured and needs to be set up manually. The doas tool is set up to grant root access (with a password) to anyone in the wheel group. Some specific commands can also be run by wheel members without a password, such as the service command for managing background services and the ifconfig utility for managing network connections.
FuryBSD 12.0 -- The settings panel
(full image size: 477kB, resolution: 1366x768 pixels)
Conclusions
I don't feel as though I have a lot to say about FuryBSD as the operating system is quite minimal for a desktop system. The project mostly does what it sets out to do - providing a way to run a live desktop version of FreeBSD and make it possible to quickly install a FreeBSD-based operating system. On the positive side of things, it mostly works well, has some quick-reference documentation, uses FreeBSD's solid core as its base, and has a pretty vanilla, yet functional, version of Xfce.
I did have a few complaints. FuryBSD is very minimal, meaning beyond testing hardware and browsing the web, there is not a lot we can do with the live environment. The installer, while functional, is likely to scare away anyone besides people already comfortable with FreeBSD and ZFS. I also found sound was not working on my test systems.
While FuryBSD basically succeeds in fulfilling its mission, I was less enthusiastic about using it than I was when I tried NomadBSD last month. NomadBSD has a more polished desktop, more included applications, sound worked out of the box, the desktop resolution could be adjusted in VirtualBox, and it used less RAM. These two projects have a lot of overlap and, while they approach some things differently, I feel NomadBSD is currently the stronger choice for most users while FuryBSD will probably mostly appeal to people who want a more minimal default collection of software.
* * * * *
Hardware used in this review
My physical test equipment for this review was a de-branded HP laptop with the following
specifications:
- Processor: Intel i3 2.5GHz CPU
- Display: Intel integrated video
- Storage: Western Digital 700GB hard drive
- Memory: 6GB of RAM
- Wired network device: Realtek RTL8101E/RTL8102E PCI Express Fast
- Wireless network device: Realtek RTL8188EE Wireless network card
* * * * *
Visitor supplied rating
FuryBSD has a visitor supplied average rating of: N/A from 0 review(s).
Have you used FuryBSD? You can leave your own review of the project on our ratings page.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
Fedora presents Fedora CoreOS, Kubuntu unveils official laptop, Ubuntu dropping Amazon launcher
The Fedora team have announced that the Fedora CoreOS platform is now available for general public use. Fedora CoreOS is a minimal platform intended to run containers and is considered the successor to Fedora Atomic Host and CoreOS's Container Linux. "The Fedora CoreOS team is pleased to announce that Fedora CoreOS is now available for general use. Here are some more details about this exciting delivery. Fedora CoreOS is a new Fedora Edition built specifically for running containerized workloads securely and at scale. It's the successor to both Fedora Atomic Host and CoreOS Container Linux and is part of our effort to explore new ways of assembling and updating an OS. Fedora CoreOS combines the provisioning tools and automatic update model of Container Linux with the packaging technology, OCI support, and SELinux security of Atomic Host."
The Fedora Magazine post goes on to note that this means CoreOS's Container Linux, which was purchased by Red Hat about two years ago, will soon reach the end of its supported life. "CoreOS Container Linux will be maintained for a few more months, and then will be declared end-of-life. We'll announce the exact end-of-life date later this month."
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The Kubuntu team has announced the availability of an official Kubuntu laptop. The laptop is a joint venture with Tuxedo Computers and the new device is being called the Kubuntu Focus Laptop. "The Kubuntu Council, MindShareManagement Inc, and Tuxedo Computers proudly announce the officially authorized Kubuntu Focus Laptop. The target audience are power users and developers who seek performance and compatibility with Linux deployment environments. It comes pre-loaded and pre-updated with the latest, professionally vetted software for web development, deep learning, Steam games, video editing, image editing, and dozens of additional supported software packages. This laptop is the result of months of focused industrial design. We took one hardware configuration meticulously tuned it to ensure everything works out of the box" A post on the Kubuntu website offers further details and specifications.
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According to an article on FOSS Bytes, the Ubuntu distribution will no longer be shipping with a launcher for the Amazon store by default. Canonical's relationship with Amazon has often been the source of controversy over the past eight years and the distribution has gradually been pulling back from including Amazon search results and Amazon links bundled with the operating system. "Does the Amazon web app also give you a hard time on Ubuntu? If yes, then it's time to cheer for you as the much-awaited Ubuntu 20.04 Focal Fossa has finally removed the pre-installed Amazon web launcher from the dock. The article points to a change on Launchpad which seems to indicate the removal of the Amazon launcher.
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Live distro versus installed distro performance
Buyer-beware asks: Live distros always seem to work great off of a DVD. However, I struggle to figure out why they no longer work as fast or as smooth whenever I decide to actually install an updated distro.
A perfect example is the Ubuntu family. Lubuntu and Xubuntu have the same or better response times. Kubuntu takes forever no matter what I try to do.
How do I find out what settings are used that allow a live version of a Linux distro to work great when I test it on my hardware versus when I install it? Do you know of an optimization checklist that might help?
DistroWatch answers: I find this situation interesting as, typically, I get the same desktop performance from a live distro as an installed one. If anything, running a distribution from a hard drive is usually faster than running it from a DVD due to the better drive speed. I would generally consider it strange to find a distribution that runs slower after it has been installed than when it is running from a DVD.
When there is a performance difference when running from one medium or another there are some things we can check. The first one I usually look at is the video driver. In the Ubuntu family of distributions you can go into the Software & Updates tool from the application menu and look under the Additional Drivers tab. This will give you access to third-party drivers which may offer better desktop performance. Typically the third-party drivers will only help if you are using a 3-D desktop like GNOME or Cinnamon. It is less likely to help when running Lubuntu, Xubuntu or Kubuntu as these desktops do not require 3-D driver support to functional smoothly.
Another thing to look at is whether desktop visual effects are enabled. This tends to make a big difference on distributions that run the KDE Plasma desktop (such as Kubuntu). If you go into the System Settings panel and look at the desktop effects settings, you will likely find most of them enabled. Turning off visual effects can speed up the desktop. On many modern desktops you should also check the compositor settings. I often find turning off compositing (or tuning it to prefer performance over visual polish) can make a big difference. Each desktop handles this differently, so check your desktop environment's documentation or your distribution's documentation for steps on how to do this.
A third option is to look at background services, such as file indexing. Generally file indexing should be disabled on a live disc, but will be running in the background on a freshly installed distribution. Many distributions run a service like locate which indexes all the files on the hard drive. Some desktops, including KDE Plasma, can also create an index of files and this can slow down the interface. Check your desktop's settings to see if it is setting up a search index or file index. If so, disabling this service can help. Similarly, if your computer is running a background job to index files for locate, then disabling this service or making it run at a lower priority can help. You can check if one of these index services is running using your distribution's system monitor.
Finally, one more thing you can do is wait. If you are noticing the performance difference right away and not using the distribution for very long before deciding it is too slow, then it is possible some background services are running when you first sign in and will stop later. For instance, your system may be checking for software updates when you first install the operating system and will sort itself out in a few minutes. If so, the slower performance will be temporary and only happen when you first login to your account. If slow performance continues beyond a few minutes then it is probably due to one of the above scenarios.
* * * * *
Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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| Released Last Week |
GParted Live 1.1.0-1
Curtis Gedak has announced the release of GParted Live 1.1.0-1, the latest stable version of the project's Debian-based CD/USB image with a collection of disk management and data rescue utilities: "The GParted team is pleased to announce a new stable release of GParted Live. This release includes GParted 1.1.0, updated packages and other improvements. Items of note include: fix error when moving locked LUKS-encrypted partition; switch to faster minfo and mdir to read FAT16/32 usage; calculate JFS size accurately; recognise ATARAID members and detect their busy status; based on the Debian 'Sid' repository as of 2020-01-21; Linux kernel updated to 5.4.13; fix an issue about makeboot.sh which failed to run. Note that the default boot options did not display an X Desktop on old Acer Aspire laptops. The workaround is to select Other modes of GParted Live and choose GParted Live (Safe graphics setting, vga-normal). Note also that a problem on a test computer with GParted stuck displaying 'Scanning all devices...' turned out to be an mdadm command waiting forever for a floppy_read_block." Read the full release announcement for more details.
GhostBSD 20.01
GhostBSD is a user-friendly desktop operating system based on TrueOS (which is, in turn, based on FreeBSD's development branch). The project's latest release, GhostBSD 20.01, introduces some fixes to the installer and ships with version 1.22.2 of the MATE desktop environment. A community edition featuring the Xfce desktop is also available. "I am happy to announce the availability of GhostBSD 20.01 with some improvements made to the installer, mainly improvements to the way the installer UI deals with custom partitions involving GTP and UEFI. Also, some system and software has been updated. GhostBSD 20.01 ISO has some minor improvements over 19.10. It provides an up to date ISO with the latest packages and system updates for new installation with a simple installation process to get you going quickly. For current installation, no need to re-install. What has changed since 19.10: System got updated to 12.1-STABLE. MATE is now at 1.22.2. Added a warning when an incorrect password is used in Software Station. Fix the UI installer limitation with GPT and UEFI." Further information can be found in the project's release announcement.
Lakka 2.3.2
The Lakka development team has announced the release of Lakka 2.3.2, a lightweight Linux distribution (based on LibreELEC) which promises to transform a small computer into a full-blown game console. The new release comes with an updated RetroArch user interface: "The Lakka team wishes everyone a happy new year as it welcomes 2020 with a new update and a new tier-based releases system. This new Lakka update, version 2.3.2, contains RetroArch 1.8.4 (was 1.7.2), some new cores and a handful of core updates. This new version of RetroArch adds some welcome features - the most interesting is the manual content scanner. You read it right - no database is required any more to build your playlists. Whether it's because the database is missing or your platform has little memory to handle big scans, you now have the choice to do a manual scan to build playlists on your Lakka box. This new scanning method simply takes all files ending with a known extension in a folder and adds them to the playlist for that system." Read the rest of the release announcement for further details. At present, the new Lakka release is available for generic x86_64 computers and Raspberry Pi boards.
Solus 4.1
Solus is a Linux distribution built from scratch. It uses a forked version of the PiSi package manager, maintained as "eopkg" within Solus, and a custom desktop environment called "Budgie", developed in-house. The project's latest release is Solus 4.1 which offers many updates and should provide a faster install process thanks to using a different format for compression: "Solus 4.1 is the first ISO release to feature the use of Zstandard(zstd) compression for the SquashFS images. Compared to the XZ compressed ISOs from previous releases, the ztsd compressed size is a little bit larger. But as a result, the decompression times are significantly improved (3-4x), leading to a much faster installation process than ever previously achieved. In most cases, you can expect to spend more time filling out the questions in the installation wizard than it will actually take to copy everything to disk. We hope you are just as surprised as we were at just how fast this process has become." The project's release announcement offers further details.
Solus 4.1 -- Running the Budgie desktop
(full image size: 1.2MB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 1,792
- Total data uploaded: 29.9TB
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) |
Purchasing an official distro computer
There are a handful of Linux distributions (and some flavours of BSD) which are partnered with hardware sellers to provide customers with official desktop, laptop and NAS devices. The Linux Mint distribution promotes the MintBox series of computers, for example, and in our News section we talked about the new Kubuntu Focus Laptop. Buying a laptop that is endorsed by the distribution should, in theory at least, provide a smooth experience with hardware that has been tested with the distribution's configuration and drivers.
We would like to hear how many of our readers have purchased one of these official, distribution-endorsed computers. Was it a good experience or the same as you would expect from any off-the-shelf computer? Let us know about your experiences in the comments.
You can see the results of our previous poll on whether init software plays a role in choosing your distribution in last week's edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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Purchasing official distribution computers
| I have purchased an official distro PC and liked it: | 89 (5%) |
| I have purchased an official distro PC and disliked it: | 8 (0%) |
| I have not purchased an official distro PC and plan to later: | 360 (21%) |
| I have not and have no plans to purchase an official distro PC: | 1220 (73%) |
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| Website News (by Jesse Smith) |
DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 3 February 2020. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Article Search page. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
- Bruce Patterson (podcast)
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • official distro computer (by DaveW on 2020-01-27 00:52:06 GMT from United States)
While I have no plans to buy one, the next time my laptop needs replacing, I will take a serious look at what is available at that time.
2 • Live vs installed (by Friar Tux on 2020-01-27 00:58:31 GMT from Canada)
I usually find the performance speeds between the two, too close to even both with. What I have found, though, is that the live version usually seems to find my wi fi quite nicely, while the installed version needs after-install fiddling to get it to even acknowledge that wi fi exists. (Though, I must say most 'buntus and derivatives seem to not have any issues here.)
As for the vote... I think I would vote 'none of the above'. I simply purchase any new PC I happen to like and wipe the main drive and install a Linux distro. (Yup, I know, the Windows tax. I see it as a 'convenience' cost.) If I could find a reasonably priced Linux PC that caught my eye, I would probably purchase it. And by reasonably priced I don't mean any of the present Linux offerings - way out of MY price range. (Note to DW: perchance, could we start a page listing Linux PC's and prices? And maybe a price/feature comparison?)
3 • live vs installed (by Otis on 2020-01-27 01:17:35 GMT from United States)
Of course the installed is faster, more responsive, etc.
As to buying a linux machine, sounds intriguing. But, I lament the possibility of deciding to install another disro over the oem, distro hopper that I am.. so, I'd better keep this laptop for that. ;)
4 • Kubuntu Linux Focus Laptop is launched. (by Kenny Bontu on 2020-01-27 01:57:02 GMT from Canada)
Kubuntu Linux Focus Laptop
Specs:
OS: Kubuntu 18.04 (KDE Plasma)
CPU: Core i7-9750H 6c/12t 4.5GHz Turbo
GPU: 6GB GTX-2060
RAM: 32GB Dual Channel DDR4 2666 RAM
Storage: 1TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe
Display: 16.1” matte 1080p IPS
Keyboard: LED backlit, 3-4mm travel
Chassis: Metal and plastic, 0.78”
Broad suite of curated apps pre-loaded
Two year warranty
User expandable SDD, NVMe, and RAM
Estimated $2,399 ($900 less than MBP)
It looks appealing and promising.
5 • "Official Distro PC"s are a VERY niche--and expensive--product. (by R. Cain on 2020-01-27 02:09:18 GMT from United States)
Your "Opinion Poll" is at 72% early on for the "No intention to buy...." crowd. I predict this is about the way it will work out at week's end, simply because "Official Linux PC"s are *expensive*.
Why the high price for "Official Linux PC"s?
The problem, of course, with an "Official Linux PC" 'making it'--in any appreciable volume, for any manufacturer--is the same problem which keeps Linux off of "the desktop": there are simply too many different Linux distributions. No way a manufacturer is going to roll the "Which OS Should I Decide On" dice so that he can offer (due ONLY to high volume sales) a low-cost Linux computer. It simply can't be done.
[Oh, you're offering a 4G / 64 G 14" laptop running Mint? Too bad. I don't like Mint. It uses systemd.]
ONE, and ONLY ONE operating system is the reason you see $150 (at Christmas-time) to $200 (now) 4GB RAM / 64GB eMMC Win10 and Chromebook computers, both 11.6" and 14"displays.
Now you know...
6 • Just for browsing (by Kenny Bontu on 2020-01-27 02:58:50 GMT from Canada)
VOID Linux
Log in as anon/root, password voidlinux
The void-live 820MB packed with only just with firefox and other Bell Plan-9's peanuts, but, of course without anything else like calculator, text-editor etc... no extra-goodies just the browser, as in XBPS package manager (of course did NOT work in the live image I've tried.) is just more than enough to surf the web.
Only problem I have ever faced with the "VOID" was my hardware(s) only likes very a-few distro(s). Even latest Debian, Buntu Family and antiX with broadcomm-sta build into kernel with 0conf was not not responsive enough.
7 • offical distro-computer (by zephyr on 2020-01-27 07:45:49 GMT from United States)
Wouldn't want one with systemd, might be interested if new PC's and laptops sold w/OUT an operating system with a savings passed on to the consumer!
8 • Official Distro PC (by Reinaldo on 2020-01-27 07:58:00 GMT from Venezuela)
Why does the description and concept remind me of a Mac? I mean, a pc fine tuned to run only ONE system....where is the freedom there? Why not PCs that have hardware proven to work with Linux (any or at least most of the distros) and let the end user choose?
I take any PC or laptop, try my favorite 2 or 3 distros live cd to check compatibility, and then wipe windows and install....boom, I have my Linux PC
9 • Kubuntu Focus Laptop (by michal on 2020-01-27 08:07:05 GMT from Poland)
It's expensive because it has "premium" components. Choosing intel and nvidia while they could go with cheaper, much less power hungry, and more open(source)-minded AMD? That's not a gaming laptop but a power-user/creator one, and in such case AMD has simply a better offer (more core & thread at lower power requirements). I get that people who designed it decided to have a premium specs just to show off, and surely there might be guys who will buy it. But I might buy a powerfull Lenovo laptop for lower price and happily run any distro (from serious ones, not the garage band of three types). There should be at least a hint, that a more mainstream, cheaper laptop is on the horizon, for the masses, with a price tag that surely wont match prices of anything you can buy off the shelf, but close enough to consider. Due to this arguments I dont see anything reasonabe from few laptops and desktops "designed" for linux that you could have bought till now. Maybe except ultra cheap and weak ones from Pine and Olimex - but these are a less lower league naturally.
So, who would consider buying a mainstream notebook for 500$, with reasonable specs, endorsed by Ubuntu? Thus perfectly usable on broad selection of tick a like distros based on it?
10 • @ #7 and @ #8 (by Kenny Bontu on 2020-01-27 08:26:14 GMT from Canada)
@ # 7
Days are not too far, I hope.
I still remember how I assembled first pc from parts.
But, reality is far.
As long as toys are floating around they think they are in control, when I look at my dump-garbage-bin, I guess, I am in control.
A way far, a way way far, down the road on either direction of travel, either left or right the only thing that exits at the end is big "NULL". The rest is the mess (un-sortable-heavy-tangled) we create before we rest in peace.
@ # 8 Official Distro PC
Why does the description and concept remind me of a Mac? -> Nice one!
Once Linus said Linux does not follow any rules. Neither have any official specs apart from POSIX or LSB. In fact, posix and lsb do not need to followed if you are brewing your own, gpl does not restrict you from that one too.
Any arbitrary script(s) or binary(s) can jack-up the system from any directory locally or remotely. As long as I can surf with the penguin, I would be just more than happy with that.
Which distro(s) that anyone would like to consider as a official one, sysV or systemd, redhat, opensuse, oracle, debian, slackware, arch, or anything else. Every distro I walked through was unique in some sort, which of course was different from the rest with it's own pros and cons.
11 • Purchasing an official distro computer (by zcatav on 2020-01-27 08:30:40 GMT from Turkey)
I have purchased an official Pop!_OS Laptop and liked it.
12 • Solving the problems which do not exist. (by Kenny Bontu on 2020-01-27 08:50:30 GMT from Canada)
I guess MZ was the "one" who said that Developers are busy (I would say, too busy in the box) solving the problem(s) which does not exist in the last DW.
Further more, Developers are really really too busy in a box to open a glass-window land to look out-side. Where as out-side (out-side the box) is naturally more beautiful with a breath of fresh-air, and nice breeze.
By the way I found Mandrake/Mandriva (oldies) on some linux-mirrors, and really felt like my-own, coz it still runs like a charm and smooth no-more virtual helicoptering, just a silent performer.
13 • Linux laptops (by Martin on 2020-01-27 08:57:17 GMT from United Kingdom)
Here in the UK we have a latop manufacturer that is willing to supply without an OS and you can then install whichever Linux flavour you wish. I bought one 5 years ago and had very little difficulty in installing AntiX on it, and was very happy with it.
You can configure their laptops with a range of options and prices start at £199 inc vat without Windows on it. They also have an active forum to help with any issues you come across.
It would be very useful id DW could possibly list manufacturers of Linux laptops as someone else has already requested. Thank you DW anyway for an excellent website.
14 • @ 13 (by Martin on 2020-01-27 09:00:38 GMT from United Kingdom)
Sorry, I forgot to post a link: www.pcspecialist.co.uk
15 • Is it helpful to you to have a distribution bundled with a new computer? (by Someguy on 2020-01-27 09:05:37 GMT from United Kingdom)
A new desktop PC can be assembled to personal spec. with a little 'electrical' screwdriver in <30mins, possibly by the proverbial six-year old and at half the cost. Nothing inside the main box runs at more than 12V, so is 'safe', {but leave PSU repairs to consummate experts, as per the label!} ipso facto, a self-assembled machine will always perform to expectations. Furthermore, when the HD, PSU, memory, etc. need replacing or upgrading - it's quick and easy. Inertia, or worse, ignorance, is a terrible situation and invariably leads to possibly unmerited £/$/e expenditure, not to mention possible rip-off, delay and worry. A steel desktop PC case is never obsolete so should never go to landfill, just repair or swap the internals. As for laptops, very long and painful experience suggests these are invariably troublesome, a waste of time, effort and £/$/e, especially as a mobile phone can perform at least as many tasks if not more, eg like making phone calls and taking good photographs!
16 • installing packages to Void Linux \Live (by nanome on 2020-01-27 09:12:15 GMT from United Kingdom)
@6: it is formally possible to install Packages to the Live version of Void Linux [albeit temporarily]; I just tried it with "xbps-install -S rsync"; however, in my case there was only 100mb left on the memory-mapped system drive. There doesn't seem to be a way to increase the balance between memory for filesystem and memory for the system-proper.
17 • Official distro PC (by Chris Whelan on 2020-01-27 09:34:25 GMT from United Kingdom)
I voted that I have purchased one on the basis that I recently received my Pinebook Pro.
Nice hardware, but the OS has some way to go.
18 • @ # 16 (by Kenny Bontu on 2020-01-27 09:35:57 GMT from Canada)
@ # 16
"I just tried it with "xbps-install -S rsync";
- XBPS or any package-manger is "not really" required to install anything, I could survive without any package-manager(s). I have managed to install the packages I wanted to install. XBPS failed to show-up any available repo(s), I had to download manually and install it manually.
" however, in my case there was only 100mb left on the memory-mapped system drive."
- Under the hood, in the woods, they have followed the KNOPPIX trail, ext3f ilesystem is squashfs-ed as live - file system so it gets mounted twice in two different partitions. Because of this fact, it eats-up double RAM leaving very less RAM available in user-land.
@ 13 • Linux laptops
In UK, cheap ARM-CPU based PC or laptops might be available by now.
In China, I have came across one, a-few really.
19 • Pinebook Pro (by OstroL on 2020-01-27 09:37:23 GMT from Poland)
One day, I might buy a Pinebook Pro or one that would come after. https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/
I don't need "high" specs...
20 • Running live (by Chris Whelan on 2020-01-27 09:45:01 GMT from United Kingdom)
Running live from USB 3 is often as fast as installed, but a lot depends on the USB stick used. Testing the speed differences from even well-regarded makers recently was revealing! The write speed can vary by a factor of 10.
IME DVD drives get slower at reading as they age, so that is also a factor.
MX Linux, which adopts live-with-persistence enhancement from sister distro antiX, is perfectly usable from USB 3 as an everyday driver, and lots of users do that.
21 • 16 • installing packages to Void Linux (by Kenny Bontu on 2020-01-27 09:55:23 GMT from Canada)
however, in my case there was only 100mb left on the memory-mapped system drive.
You can re-master VOID easy, with just single filesystem squashfsED, if you like it.
I have tried KDE and MATE, both. It is fast. I like it.
I like the developers initiative of live-system just with a browser.
22 • USB 3 is faster, of course. (by Kenny Bontu on 2020-01-27 10:15:06 GMT from Canada)
@ # 20 • Running live
"Running live from USB 3 is often as fast as installed, but a lot depends on the USB stick used. "
-Of course, Yes.
USB 3 is faster, and, USB 4 which is even more faster, is already-out in South-East Asia by now.
I still prefer CD/DVD over USB persistence because of:
1) I am a distro-hopper. It is damn easy to toss-a-dvd into garbage bin if I do not like it.
2) If I like any distro(s) I usually keep it for a while. In my set-up nothing is permanent.
In reality I do not store anything. Anything on Internet stays only on in tenet.
I can get it back from the Internet. Even if I do not, in some cases, I do not mind.
I use it for a while to get the taste and enjoyment, and finally I delete it.
3) It is damn easy and cheap to pass CD/DVD on to someone for the distro(s) I like, until I
try another one and like it. At lease have made few Windows users to start using Linux.
23 • Linux laptop? (by Jeff on 2020-01-27 10:20:26 GMT from United States)
I am one of the many who voted no as I am not usually interested in the distros that do this, even if they did not have an official laptop.
What I usually do is buy a used laptop for $150 to $400, these days you can get good specs for that price range if you don't absolutely need the latest hardware or have the must buy new fetish. I do avoid makers with a WiFi card BIOS whitelist, so no Lenovo or Dell or HP or Toshiba.
Swap in an SSD, max out the RAM, put in a newer WiFi card; then put the USB in the slot and go.
Good performance for what I do, costs a lot less, keeps electronics out of landfills....
24 • Pinebook Pro Linux (by Kenny Bontu on 2020-01-27 10:34:08 GMT from Canada)
From the link posted:
14″ PINEBOOK Pro LINUX LAPTOP (ANSI, US Keyboard) – Out-Of-Stock, estimated pre-order reopen in end of February 2020
$199.99
CPU: 64-Bit Dual-Core ARM 1.8GHz Cortex A72 and Quad-Core ARM 1.4GHz Cortex A53
GPU: Quad-Core MALI T-860
RAM: 4 GB LPDDR4 Dual Channel System DRAM Memory
Flash: 64 GB eMMC 5.0
Wireless: WiFi 802.11AC + Bluetooth 5.0
One USB 3.0 and one USB 2.0 Type-A Host Ports
USB 3.0 Type-C ports with alt-mode display out (DP 1.2) and 15W 5V 3A charge.
MicroSD Card Slot: 1
Headphone Jack: 1
Microphone: Built-in
Keyboard: Full Size ANSI(US) type Keyboard
Touch-pad: Large Multi-Touch Touchpad
Power: Input: 100~240V, Output: 5V3A
Battery: Lithium Polymer Battery (10000mAH)
Display: 14.1″ IPS LCD (1920 x 1080)
Front Camera: 2.0 Megapixels
Power Supply included
Dimension: 329mm x 220mm x 12mm (WxDxH)
Weight: 1.26 kg (2.78 lbs)
Warranty: 30 days
It seems like 6-cores running.
Very impressive.
@ # 23 Linux Laptop
What I usually do is buy a used laptop for $150 to $400.
-Good laptops re-furbished are available under CDN $200 as well here locally.
" you don't absolutely need the latest hardware or have the must buy new fetish."
-Windows-10 user was surprised against just 100GB Windows-10 Installation and updates, when when I passed a linux live-dvd to someone last time.
25 • @20,21: Antix/MX Live Persistence (by nanome on 2020-01-27 10:55:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
@20,21: thanks for highlighting the persistence capabilities of AntiX/MX. Ultimately, the problem with that approach for "everyday" work is that it eats away at the memory available for running applications.
I think there is a need for linux systems to support booting into "readonly root" mode, where the root file system is mounted readonly, but where those directories that must be writable to boot/init the system are mounted using the kernel overlayfs mechanism. I have done this with Devuan/sinit in the past and will implement it on Void/runit [nearly there]. The latter only needs about 50 lines inserted into the runit init scripts and the use of "roroot" in the GRUB kernel parameters. However, the complication comes with installing new packages, and I will look to see how Antix manage that activity.
26 • Dell Linux Laptop (by Julian Cardich on 2020-01-27 10:56:58 GMT from Greece)
I bought recently a DELL laptop with Linux (Ubuntu) preinstalled. Here are the specs:
Dell Inspiron 3593
CPU i7 1065G7
15.6'' IPS Full HD
RAM 16 GB DDR4
Nvidia GeForce MX230 2GB
SSD 256 GB
It was 715 euros (about $790), not bad.
Everything worked out of the box. I had only to install the dash to dock gnome extension and replace the wallpaper. It's very nice, I love it and I'd recommend it to everyone.
27 • Offial Linux laptop (by JIm on 2020-01-27 11:26:51 GMT from United States)
I agree with Jeff. Being neither a developer or gamer, I do not need the power of most Linux laptops, and I am unwilling to pay the cost of what I do not need. Pinebooks look promising, but every review I read say they have a way to go. Seeing I want a decent laptop for a bargain price, refurbished laptops have worked well for me. I try to get ones without and OS, but don't mind reformatting the hard drive if they do, from what I have seen I doubt the OS is an official copy of Windows anyway. I realize this is not for everyone, but it has worked out well for me. Until a moderately priced, decent hardware Linux laptop comes along, I will be sticking to this method.
28 • BSD installers - no thanks! (by curious on 2020-01-27 11:38:12 GMT from Germany)
I note that the review says, among other things: "We can choose which disk to to take over for the filesystem". This is typical of BSD, and highly impractical for testing.
Until BSD systems can be installed easily in a partition, alongside other operating systems on the same disk, I will not touch them outside of a virtual machine.
Linux has had this capability for more than a decade now. I really don't understand why it is impossible in BSD-land.
29 • @ # 25 (by Kenny Bontu on 2020-01-27 11:41:34 GMT from Canada)
There is a thin line between AntiX(sysVinit), VOID(runit) and MX, Devuan.
Gentoo(openRC) and Slackware might have non-systemd derivatives too.
non-systemd users have many choices. Even Devuan has many good derivatives.
systemd-or-non-systemd does not really matter much for my needs. Anything that works out-of-the-box without helicoptering is just fine. I have absolutely no preferences of non-systemd over systemd.
Some of the latest buntus and it's derivatives entered into kernel panic can can not boot the system either. Antix,MX, Void, and Devuan worked. Somehow last version of antix started helicoptering made feel like a helicopter-pilot rather than surfing smoothly on the surf board.
30 • Why, exactly, CAN"T major manufacturers produce a low-cost "Linux machine"? (by R. Cain on 2020-01-27 13:05:05 GMT from United States)
Of COURSE--the answer--and question--is SO obvious:
Since a major manufacturer’s “decision to produce” is driven by the prospect of high-volume sales, what is THE reason that MAJOR laptop manufacturers (Dell; H-P; Acer, Asus; Lenovo; et. al.) ---which *do* produce low-cost Win10 and Chromebook machines--DO NOT PRODUCE a very similar product *which has no operating system installed*; and which would, by default, be an “agnostic” Linux machine?
This such a “no-brainer" that there’s simply got to be some other dynamic at work in this particular scenario.
Are there some artificial restrictions in place similar to what was imposed on the manufacturers of netbooks several years ago by Microsoft and / or Intel to try and discourage the design and production of the netbook-class machine (I forget who, but it is / was a fact): “...if you produce a laptop with a screen size of less than [“number” VERY transparently chosen to exclude 11.6 inches, and smaller], then we won’t sell you our product.”
Wouldn’t the offering of an 11.6“ or 14“ machine with 4GB of RAM and a 64 GB “SSD” (really an eMMC, in most cases), with no operating system installed, guarantee the major manufacturers a high-volume path to hardware sales, via the Linux community, which is extremely desirous of such an effort? What, or who, is stopping them?
[Please don’t start a flame war because your favorite vendor got left out, here. And, please, don’t go and start defending the vendor(s) with statements like “...the final machine might not work because Linux has problems with...”. PUH-LEEZE! How many years have you lived with vendors who happily take your money while at the same time telling you that they assume NO responsibility for their product’s being able to work, under *any* set of circumstances? Can you say ‘Microsoft’, boys and girls?
You get the idea and intent of this post. If not, simply buy a Chromebook. It should work very well for you except for...]
31 • Linux preinstalled (by Morton on 2020-01-27 13:16:16 GMT from Germany)
I bought Dell Inspiron laptop with preinstalled Ubuntu several years ago. I chose it because at the time the price was a little less then for the same model with Windows. Also I was curious in the customization implemented in distribution by Dell. Almost immediately I resized partitions, installed Linux Mint and alternated some time between the two until only Mint left. It worth to mention, that after upgrading the original factory version to the next Ubuntu LTS, OS stability was not great.
Re opinion poll, notwithstanding of my reply to it ('no plans') and my experience, if there is such a possibility, I always recommend to others to buy hardware with preinstalled Linux.
32 • @ 30 Low cost Linux laptops (by OstroL on 2020-01-27 14:22:36 GMT from Poland)
You see, someone (like you) should buy these 11.6“ or 14“ machine with 4GB of RAM and a 64 GB “SSD” (really an eMMC, in most cases) in bulk without an OS and ten install a Linux distro and sell them. There might be a little or no profit, but you would be doing a service to the mankind.
Only, you'd have to create the drivers.
I have one like that, a 13" 2 in 1, but there aren't any drivers for Linux at all. But, the thing is so nice to work with, less than a 1kg in weight and has a touchscreen. The battery stays for more than 10hrs with the so-called other OS. It also has a very much better fingerprint scanner than Samsung and also a precision touchpad. Paid just 185USD for it.
One day, of course, I'll buy a Pinebook Pro for it is ARM.
33 • Live vs. Demo vs. Installed (by Walrus on 2020-01-27 14:32:44 GMT from France)
> If anything, running a distribution from a hard drive is usually
> faster than running it from a DVD due to the better drive speed.
I think there's always been some confusion about what should be considered a "Live Distro" and most major distributions are guilty of misnaming their ISOs as "live" while in reality they are merely demos or show cases that must be installed on a HDD to work properly. And, as Jesse says, they are indeed quite useless for everyday work as they keep swapping bits in and out of RAM which makes them very slow.
As I see it, only distributions that load entirely into RAM should be called "Live Distro". The performance of such distros is very snappy and inherently faster than that of installed distros.
34 • Live vs Installed (by Sitwon on 2020-01-27 15:17:19 GMT from United States)
As Walrus points out, Live distros generally run off a compressed filesystem that may be partially or entirely loaded into RAM.
Even if you don't copy the entire filesystem into RAM at boot, because the filesystem is a compressed read-only image (SquashFS) there is less actual data to read off the disk compared to a system that is installed to a read-write filesystem. Reading the extra bits of the uncompressed version may well be slower, even on relatively fast disk, than decompressing in memory. (Hence why GCC recommends optimizing for size-on-disk to achieve the best binary performance.)
SquashFS is able to achieve some amazing performance because it is read-only. They way that "Live" distros handle persistence is generally to union-mount another (AUFS2) a read-write filesystem (sometimes a loop mounted file) on top of the SquashFS root filesystem. Over time, as the read-write layer gets hit more and more often, the performance advantage will fade or even reverse.
35 • Linux Notebook (by Hadrian on 2020-01-27 15:25:04 GMT from Netherlands)
Something that seems to be sorely lacking these days is a mid-range laptop. It seems I can either choose a Pinebook, which is nice but not good enough for heavier workloads; or a notebook that's basically overpowered for what I want to do with it. This is not just a problem with linux-based notebooks but a wider problem. I wish we could buy a nice 500-600 euro notebook with guaranteed linux compatibility though.
36 • Reading comprehension is a very real problem in our society. (by R. Cain on 2020-01-27 15:27:47 GMT from United States)
@ 32 --
"...Only, you'd have to create the drivers..."
"...One day, of course, I'll buy a Pinebook Pro for it is ARM..."
1) I've never had to "...create the drivers..." for any Linux distribution I've installed on a machine which had a blank hard drive, ready for a new OS, and NO ONE ELSE HAS, EITHER. You really need to get someone to help you do this...
2)...and you WON"T have to "...create the drivers..." for the Pinebook Pro? [I know the answer to this and am certain that most readers here do also; but very apparently--and for some reason--you are totally obfuscating the issue].
"...You get the idea and intent of this post..." (from #30)
Obviously not.
"Reading comprehension is a big problem in open-source"
https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linux-reading-comprehension.html
37 • Solus installation and Linux Laptop (by Tuxfan on 2020-01-27 15:46:47 GMT from Canada)
I confirm Solus installation is very fast. It took me 3 minutes 40 seconds to install the budgie system from a usb key on an SSD disk. Also I found Solus very good in use. Not too much useless stock to add. I understand why Solus is in the top 10 here. Congratulations to the developer team who took over the founder's work.
For laptop Linux purchase!? Well in my case I always look in the used one. I have 2 (14.15.6 inch screen) 8 year old Lenovo professional laptops i7 intel (original value 1600,2000) that I paid under $200 each one. Linux, BSD and Solaris are all hardware compatible.
It's the same for the desktop. My main desktop consists of used hardware from A to Z. Original value of more than 1500$ for less than 350$. I have 5 desktops paid an average of 50 to 100$ with excellent quadcore amd hardware, FX amd, i7 intel etc... 1 for my daughter + 14 inch Laptop. 1 for my wife and the rest for me because I enjoy testing Linux, BSD, Solaris on multiple diffirent hardware with defferent use desktop, server and nas
best regard
38 • poll (by steveo314 on 2020-01-27 16:15:42 GMT from United States)
I don't need to pay $1500 to have Debian on a laptop. I can buy a $250 job from W** M*** and sell the Windows key for a couple bucks and wipe the drive and install Debian.
39 • offical distro-computer (by zephyr on 2020-01-27 16:39:56 GMT from United States)
@10, Built my first 15 years ago and have since with all my rigs, repair and rebuild my laptops too!
Only way to go for me, cheaper and get what I want!
40 • Official distro computer (by David on 2020-01-27 16:48:01 GMT from United Kingdom)
With installation so easy, why pay some-one to do it? In the UK there are firms that will sell you a bare-metal computer, with a range of components available. I've just got a desktop with an AMD processor, no video card, and SSD. It recognised a bootable USB and installed PCLinuxOS in minutes.
41 • BSD intallers (by spice on 2020-01-27 16:48:06 GMT from Sweden)
@28 This is so not true.
Anyway, why would I want to dual-boot my machine with a systemd OS?!
Enough said, BSD gets the whole drive.
42 • @ 36 Reading comprehension is a very real problem in our society... (by OstroL on 2020-01-27 17:06:23 GMT from Poland)
Absolutely! The reading comprehension is a very real problem in our society, even if one lives in the US.
If you want to install Linux distro in certain laptops, 2 in 1s, tablets, you have to create the necessary drivers, for Linux to run correctly. You can do that yourself or pay someone to do so.
Pinebook Pro, my friend has all the necessary drivers to run Linux on Arm.
43 • distro PC (by AndOneMillionDollars on 2020-01-27 18:01:59 GMT from New Zealand)
Some of the specs in the past have been a joke, but some of the recent offerings are quite decently specced. Mintbox3 Pro for example. But its fine if you are in the US or EU. For the asking price, plus shipping, plus a big whopping bill from Customs, plus the resulting delays from shipping and Customs in particular... you can go and buy no less than three equivalent machines, bring them home, bludgeon the W10 abomination to death and install the distro of your choice (which can change if you distro hop).
This week's distro review of a BSD. I have always had a "problem" with BSD having the devil mascot. I will not run any BSD or Apple (reskinned, proprietary branded BSD).
44 • Linux machines. (by hotdiggettydog on 2020-01-27 18:04:40 GMT from Canada)
I'm looking hard at dedicated linux laptops. Not that I need one. I've spent 20 years installing linux on this and that. I soon learned to pay attention to hardware. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed the journey for the most part but interest is fading and I don't want to fiddle around much anymore.
I was excited to find cheap chromebooks a few years ago. Bought his/hers Acer. Nothing exotic for hardware and they already run a linux derived OS. They have been a total PITA. I won't go the chromebook route again. I had better sucess converting windows laptops to linux.
45 • Linux laptop // BSDs (by Cheker on 2020-01-27 18:30:15 GMT from Portugal)
I'll refrain from voting this time because while I feel like I probably will buy something akin to a Pinebook one of these days, it's not a plan or a priority. Just a floating idea. My 10 year old laptop that came with Win 7 and dual boots it and Q4OS is literally being held together by duct tape and I feel like its replacement will probably have similar specs, if not weaker.
I hope Fury and Nomad continue to thrive. BSD desperately needs good, user-friendly workstations. Nothing against FreeBSD, but you can't expect the average user to look at it for more than 5 seconds and not give up.
46 • BSD's (by voidpin on 2020-01-27 19:13:26 GMT from Sweden)
@45
The only thing I need is an usb-stick and 15min, in order to set-up a fully functional laptop with my prefered OS, NetBSD. If you want, you can! Of course the first time it took me much longer then that... patience and determination. If you want, you can!
47 • linux laptop (by pengxuin on 2020-01-27 19:45:29 GMT from New Zealand)
probably would not purchase new a dedicated Linux laptop.
Using a variety of brands (Acer, Asus, HP, Toshiba, all used), all have been Install and Go with Linux - no faffing around with drivers for wifi, video, sound or touchpads.
Upgraded some Chromebooks to Linux as well, again no issues with drivers.
maybe I have been lucky as I have yet to meet a unit with the bios OS locked to Windows.
Would I consider an Android tablet to convert - maybe, if I am feeling suitably motivated.
Given that they are essentially media consumption devices (I cant see Avatar2 being created using one), basic touch screen drivers, sound, wifi, and video drivers are likely already available in the kernel, all that is needed is supported screen rotation (both display and touchscreen).
Maybe I will go looking for a distro that supports Arm devices...hmmm
48 • It's Almost Like... (by Matt E on 2020-01-27 20:35:42 GMT from United States)
...Microsoft subsidizes laptops or at least nearly gives away the OS. Failing that conspiracy, there are so many models and price points with Windows PCs. There are so many used corporate enterprise machines, which are better quality than new cheap machines.
49 • Manufacturer Refurbished PC's (by David on 2020-01-27 20:59:24 GMT from United States)
@48
I agree with you 100%.
I have not purchased or owned a brand new PC or laptop in at least two decades. I always purchase my PC's either "Open-Box New," "Seller Refurbished," or "Manufacturer Refurbished." They usually come with at least a 30-day warranty, and I've never had one fail me so far.
You can find them with big, brand new, blank hard drives, loaded with RAM, and CPU's from Haswells on up through to more current CPU generations dirt cheap on eBay.
Buy one cheap, load it with the distro of your choice, and save yourself some real cash.
JMHO
50 • Running a distro from live media vs. running from a hard drive (by eco2geek on 2020-01-27 21:09:58 GMT from United States)
It makes no sense to say, as "Buyer-beware" does, that
> Live distros always seem to work great off of a DVD. However, I struggle
> to figure out why they no longer work as fast or as smooth whenever I
> decide to actually install an updated distro.
Not only does a DVD drive have a slower spin rate than a HDD does (and way slower than a SSD), but the live images are typically compressed. In other words, it also takes time to decompress an application when running from a DVD
If you're finding that distros in general run slower on your PC from HDD or SSD than they do from a DVD drive, then I'd question whether something's wrong or misconfigured with your computer.
Something that can slow down a distro when running from a hard drive: distros often run checks on hard disk partitions when booting up (with fsck) after a set number of boots. With Ubuntu-based distros, this process is displayed on the Plymouth (boot splash) screen.
51 • buying old / used / refurb (by mandatory on 2020-01-27 21:33:25 GMT from New Zealand)
@47 - are we competing over the same resources at Cash Converters? :)
I do the same. Mostly with success, but have had a couple of duds and hardware failing after a time. Current main rig is an HP i7 that is now in its 11th year and going strong. Toshiba, Sony and MSI have better cooling than Samsung (very bad). Stay the zark away from Gigabyte (dud hardware throughout, motherboard, ports) and the older HP (dv6 - overheating). Have not tried a Chromebook conversion yet. From what I have read you can't fully kick out Android but run in some sort of parasite symbiosis mode - could be wrong. If I find one for $100 or less, I might give it a go, toss it if it fails.
52 • Installing FreeBSD to a partition (by genelovesdistrowatch on 2020-01-27 21:47:01 GMT from United States)
@28 FreeBSD install to a Partition
I recently saw a readers comment on the 01-27-2020 DistroWatch website
regarding installing FreeBSD to a partition rather than using the whole
disk. I was having the same problem for what seemed like years. I tried
every option possible while installing and never could get the installer
to install to a single partition. Then about 6 months ago I was finally
able to find the right options to make it work.
I'm not a power user or a GURU. I just surf the web looking at different
articles and look at videos on YouTube. Here's what I did to get FreeBSD
to install to a single partition instead of using the whole disk.
Insert your install media and boot the machine.
The first install screen that comes up is the 'Stall or Shell' screen.
Select 'Shell' to format your partition and hit enter.
At the prompt enter '#newfs -U -O2 /dev/ada0px'. This formats the partition
with the UFS filesystem. Enter 'exit' to exit. Now select 'install'.
The next 3 screens are different preferences for your install.
***** This is where you are able to select a partition to install in. *****
Partitioning screen --- Select 'Auto UFS' and hit OK.
Next Partitioning screen --- Select your disk and hit OK.
Partition screen --- Select partition and hit enter.
Warning screen comes up --- Select editor.
Partition Editor screen --- Use down arrow to select partition to install
to. Use the left arrow to bump over to the 'Modify' option. Hit enter.
Edit Partition screen --- Use the Tab key and the down arrow to get to the
'mountpoint' line. Enter /. Select and hit OK. Select and hit 'Finish' option.
Conformation screen --- Hit 'Commit' option.
Warning screen --- Preexisting filesystem exists. Select and hit 'Yes'.
Installing to your selected partition will now begin.
I found the following web sites to help finish installing FreeBSD.
A couple are old but still helpful.
http://georgesfocant.blogspot.com/2014/06/procedure-for-installing-kde-4-and-kdm.html
http://daemon-notes.com/articles/desktop/kde/install
https://wiki.freebsd.org/Graphics#Hardware_Support
53 • Makining sure we stay focused... (by R. Cain on 2020-01-28 02:45:01 GMT from United States)
@ 17 --
"I voted that I have purchased one on the basis that I recently received my Pinebook Pro.
Nice hardware, but the OS has some way to go."
*******************************************************
The Pinebook Pro doesn't fit the intent of this Distrowatch article; it is not, nor was it intended by Pine Microcomputer, to be an "Official Distribution Computer". It is meant to be a low-cost, high-quality ARM-based Linux computer which will run any Linux distro which has been ported to it--and quite a few have been. But...
One needs to be extremely careful. Not only is this [@ 17] a very good and succinct appraisal of the Pinebook Pro, but the PBP was not designed to be optimized for a specific OS.; and the 7000+ posts in the PBP 'Forums' would seem to indicate that Pine has quite a way to go before the PBP--from a software AND hardware standpoint--is "ready for prime time".
Pine Microcomputer has done a LOT of outstanding work thus far. When they get finished, we ALL will have an outstanding, low-cost Linux laptop computer { https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/ } from a group of VERY dedicated people. We owe them our support and thanks for their extreme hard work and dedication.
Simply read the "PINE64 > Pinebook Pro" Forum at
https://forum.pine64.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=111 , and again--
https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/
54 • "Official Distribution Computers" vs. general-Linux-distro computers. (by R. Cain on 2020-01-28 02:49:23 GMT from United States)
@ 17 --
"I voted that I have purchased one on the basis that I recently received my Pinebook Pro.
Nice hardware, but the OS has some way to go."
*******************************************************
The Pinebook Pro doesn't fit the intent of this Distrowatch article; it is not, nor was it intended by Pine Microcomputer, to be an "Official Distribution Computer". It is meant to be a low-cost, high-quality ARM-based Linux computer which will run any Linux distro which has been ported to it--and quite a few have been. But...
One needs to be extremely careful. Not only is this [@ 17] a very good and succinct appraisal of the Pinebook Pro, but the PBP was not designed to be optimized for a specific OS.; and the 7000+ posts in the PBP 'Forums' would seem to indicate that Pine has quite a way to go before the PBP--from a software AND hardware standpoint--is "ready for prime time".
Pine Microcomputer has done a LOT of outstanding work thus far. When they get finished, we ALL will have an outstanding, low-cost Linux laptop computer { https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/ } from a group of VERY dedicated people. We owe them our support and thanks for their extreme hard work and dedication.
Simply read the "PINE64 > Pinebook Pro" Forum at
https://forum.pine64.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=111 , and again--
https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/
55 • Dedicated Linux laptop - no thanks. (by CS on 2020-01-28 02:55:05 GMT from United States)
Installing Linux on a Windows laptop or Macbook is barely a hassle. I'm skeptical that Clevo (this is who actually makes the laptops) will ever have the volume to deliver great value relative to the name brands. They certainly lack the customizability as most of these Linux laptop vanity projects only choose 1 or 2 models. Will they honor your warranty in 1.9 years? I'm not willing to find out.
56 • @25 - MX/antiX live USB systems (by Hoos on 2020-01-28 04:09:11 GMT from Singapore)
"... However, the complication comes with installing new packages, and I will look to see how Antix manage that activity."
The best place to start (to answer your questions, including those on RAM usage) is this link:
https://antixlinux.com/the-most-extensive-live-usb-on-the-planet/
The antiX live system has no problems with installing new packages or removing existing ones. Once you have set up your live USB system the way you want, you can remaster the live USB, clone it, create an iso snapshot of your customised live USB, etc.
57 • Old laptop (by Any on 2020-01-28 07:29:34 GMT from Spain)
Once waiting for a colleague I entered in a second hand shop (mentioned above) and saw a HP Elitebook 8440p for 75 euros without a charger and with battery problems. and in overall good conditions. At the next day when I went with a universal power adapter to test the notebook they made an additional discount and I bought it for only 63 euros. When at home I discovered an old HP charger that was the same as the Elitebook's and tried the battery - 1h 40min. Not bad for a 9 years old laptop. I put in an EVO SSD and installed KDE Neon. The best PC purchase I've ever made. A real bargain. Typing this post right now on it.
58 • Kubuntu focus (by Sanjay Kolkata INDIA on 2020-01-28 07:36:10 GMT from India)
I am highly pleased with Kubuntu focus specification in simple terms its a monster laptop, here is my kubuntu specification
Kubuntu 18.04 LTS (dual boot with Mint 19.3 cinnamon)
i3 5th generation
12GB RAM DDR3 1600mhz
1TB Hardisk (Thinking to buy 240GB SSD)
3 usb 3 port and 1 one usb 2
59 • Linux on laptops (by zcatav on 2020-01-28 10:01:15 GMT from Turkey)
Linux on laptops: Ubuntu 19.10 on the HP Dragonfly Elite G1
The good
Everything just works, right out of the box, on a sufficiently recent Linux distro (we used Ubuntu 19.10)
USB-C charging
Included active stylus, with precise, fine control
Just as fast as you'd expect an 8th-gen i7, 16GB, M.2 SSD laptop to be
Serious battery life
Light weight, sleek, and sexy
The bad
Very modern kernel version needed for Wi-Fi drivers—getting an LTS release running would be more effort
The ugly
The Dragonfly Elite is not an OEM Linux laptop—and buying a Windows laptop contributes to stats that keep Windows dominant in manufacturers' minds
60 • Refurbished computers (by Howard S. on 2020-01-28 15:42:32 GMT from United States)
Personally, I would probably not purchase a new Linux preinstalled computer, because they are too expensive for my needs. For my basic needs, I can build myself a desktop computer, or purchase a refurbished desktop or laptop computer.
I have been building and repairing computers since 1997, and I have been using Linux since 1999. So I have a good 20 years experience with both, using Linux, and building desktop computers. I also prefer using desktop computers, more then laptops. I hardly ever turn on my laptop, just rarely. I use my desktop computer everyday instead.
I have some experience in repairing laptops, but desktops are much easier to repair.
Sure, In the past 23 years, I have built myself a couple of new desktops. But I often will just upgrade an existing computer case, I already own. Instead of building a completely brand new computer. I usually look for bargains in the used market, to upgrade my machine.
And sometimes I will just purchase a refurbished computer, like this Dell desktop I'm typing this from. I love to purchase a used computer for $50 to $200, that was originally sold for $750 or higher when new. I don't need a brand new computer, because I have basic needs.
61 • Windows vs Linux popularity stats (by Otis on 2020-01-28 16:44:54 GMT from United States)
@59 Insightful:
"..buying a Windows laptop contributes to stats that keep Windows dominant in manufacturers' minds."
Makes us wonder just how many windows machines are purchased either for the sole purpose of covering the oem os with linux or coming to the conclusion that it must be done (for various reasons).
Impossible to determine accurately, but an interesting notion to contemplate, imo.
62 • Pinebook Pro / Live ISOs run from RAM (by Artemis3 on 2020-01-28 17:08:27 GMT from Venezuela)
Actually I'm interested in the Pinebook pro, i guess that counts as official distro laptop. But for the vanilla x86 type, whatever i get will end with my favorite non-systemd distro: Artix. If it is for another person, MX Linux it is.
Official distro laptop might have the advantage that at least there is a distro out there that works perfectly fine with it. I'm guessing Pop?OS (whatever system76 uses). But you often find cheaper laptops with windows pre-installed, in that case i just wipe it out usually pre-checking the components of the laptop to make sure there are no annoying hardware present.
Live distro versus installed distro performance
Jesse missed the actual reason: Running from ram. Many live ISOs run entirely from ram once loaded, that is why, even if they take longer to boot when using optical media. Or just where do you think packages get installed when running a live iso without persistence?
63 • Official Distribution Computers (by Kazlu on 2020-01-28 18:02:43 GMT from France)
I have never bought any, although I bought a computer with Ubuntu in the past.
I do ot plan to, because I only buy refurbished or second hand computers when needed, placing an ecological logic above software freedom in my criterion. I try to do both of course, especially in my choice of brands. However, should my distro of choice, or a close parent, endorsed refurbished computers sales, I would certainly consider it when the need arises.
Same logic for smartphones by the way: I buy refurbished smarphones (usually former high end, common smartphones, a few years old) and install LineageOS on them, rather than buying Librem of Fairphone.
64 • "Official Distribution" computers (by Simon Plaistowe on 2020-01-28 22:15:46 GMT from New Zealand)
Factory-installed Linux might be a great thing for introducing "the masses" to a better OS alternative, but for me Linux is about choice & freedom. I prefer to roll my own, choosing an appropriate distro to suit each machine's hardware specs & intended purpose. That said, usually I choose Linux Mint XFCE for desktop/laptop machines.
65 • live vs installed (by Andy Figueroa on 2020-01-28 22:25:18 GMT from United States)
Never heard of or experienced a live usb or dvd being faster than installed. The concept itself is nutty. If someone says this, look elsewhere for a problem with the user's experience.
66 • @65 (by Cynic on 2020-01-28 22:42:43 GMT from Ghana)
See post #62...
It is not "nutty", it is 100% feasible.
If a system runs entirely from RAM when live, its performance will of course be faster than an install to disk which will need to read from disk into RAM before actually "launching" whatever it may be.
67 • Just a second thought. (by Tony Tinkerelli on 2020-01-28 22:43:43 GMT from Canada)
Just sharing my views while reading other people's posts.
Hardware manufacturer like pine should take initiative to develop laptop, desktop, server, and mobile-phones without any pre-installed OS. Without extra freebies of tons of sensors that end-users hardly use.
Users can install any open-source GNU/Linux OS. User who can not flash-a-rom should pay to someone who can flash it for them.
68 • New vs refurbished laptops (by mikef90000 on 2020-01-28 23:50:31 GMT from United States)
I don't have a need for (b)leeding edge performance. Recently I looked for and bought a system with a 'trackpoint' (Lenovo Thinkpad only at this time), 'fast enough' processor (core i5) and 'large enough' screen (almost nothing larger than 14"). Linux Mint installed cleanly on the six-ish y/o Lenovo T430, no missing drivers noted so far.
OTOH the MS certified refurb outfit played games with the hardware - shipped memory config was not found in the Lenovo catalog but that was cheap and easy to upgrade.
69 • RAM distros (by virthug on 2020-01-29 04:05:39 GMT from Australia)
small distros loaded into RAM are very useful. Fast to boot, and you get a fresh malware-free install every time. They're better than the hassle of having to clear browsing data, running virus scanners, using cleaners, or creating VMs, etc.
70 • Kubuntu Focus laptop (by Simon on 2020-01-29 05:52:21 GMT from New Zealand)
Assuming it actually works as advertised, well done kfocus team for paying so much careful attention to detail and producing such an excellent, well-tuned pairing of OS and hardware. Personally I don't see the point in putting that much effort into fine-tuning software to run on a crappy slow laptop, so well done, too, for choosing a satisfying and reasonably high-end system. Yes, any of us can buy a cheap laptop and tinker with a generic distro until we're happy with it: nobody has taken that option away. Well done kfocus team for providing another option, for users who want to be able to buy a great Linux experience out of the box.
71 • PINE LINUX PHONE – “BraveHeart” (by Tony Tinkerelli on 2020-01-29 10:21:59 GMT from Canada)
PINEPHONE – “BraveHeart” Limited Edition Linux SmartPhone for early adopters
$149.99
PLATFORM:
OS: Various open source mainline Linux or BSD mobile OSes
Chipset: Allwinner A64
CPU: 64-bit Quad-core 1.2 GHz ARM Cortex A-53
GPU: MALI-400
MEMORY:
Internal Flash Memory: 16GB eMMC
System Memory: 2GB LPDDR3 SDRAM
Expansion: micro SD Card support SDHC and SDXC, up to 2TB
CAMERA:
Main Camera: Single 5MP, 1/4″, LED Flash
Selfie Camera: Single 2MP, f/2.8, 1/5″
SOUND:
Loudspeaker: Yes, mono
3.5mm jack with mic: Yes, stereo
COMMUNICATION:
Worldwide, Global LTE bands
LTE-FDD: B1/ B2/ B3/ B4/ B5/ B7/ B8/ B12/ B13/ B18/ B19/ B20/ B25/ B26/ B28
LTE-TDD: B38/ B39/ B40/ B41
WCDMA: B1/ B2/ B4/ B5/ B6/ B8/ B19
GSM: 850/900/1800/1900MHz
WLAN: Wi-Fi 802.11 b/g/n, single-band, hotspot
Bluetooth: 4.0, A2DP
GPS: Yes, with A-GPS, GLONASS
Note:
The “BraveHeart” Limited Edition PinePhones are aimed solely for developer and early adopter. More specifically, only intend for these units to find their way into the hands of users with extensive Linux experience and an interest in Linux-on-phone.
72 • MintBox3 Basic (by Roger on 2020-01-31 10:53:15 GMT from Belgium)
I recently asked info for the Linux MintBox3 Basic about availability in Belgium. The price with import duty is around 200 to 300 euro more. That makes it a bit expensive, so I need a think of it is worth the money. Sure it is very good made but even than.
73 • Official Distro PCs (by R. Cain on 2020-01-31 14:55:59 GMT from United States)
From the Opinion Poll at 14:44 UTC (approx); on Friday, 31 January 2020:
"I have not and have no plans to purchase an official distro PC: 1126 (73%)"
*************************************************************************************
@ 5-- (...on 2020-01-27 02:09:18 GMT from United States)(Monday)--
"Your "Opinion Poll" is at 72% early on for the "No intention to buy...." crowd. I predict this is about the way it will work out at week's end, simply because "Official Linux PC"s are *expensive*..."
Number of Comments: 73
Display mode: DWW Only • Comments Only • Both DWW and Comments
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