 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 838, 28 October 2019 |
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Welcome to this year's 43rd issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
Just before Ubuntu's October releases were launched we published a poll asking which of the distribution's community editions we should review. The winner was Xubuntu as many readers were curious about how the new Xfce desktop would perform. We have a first impressions review of Xubuntu 19.10, along with observations on Xfce 4.14 and the distribution's experimental support for ZFS on root in this week's Feature Story. After you read about Ubuntu's ZFS features we would like to hear your thoughts on the advanced filesystem in our Opinion Poll - is ZFS a feature you find useful? In our News section we talk about UBports gradually coming to new platforms and report on a new emergency mode for the HAMMER filesystem. The Xfce team is outlining plans for version 4.16 of their desktop and we share details below. We then talk about init software and service managers, and their overlapping jobs in this week's Questions and Answers column. Plus we are pleased to share the releases of the past week with you and list the torrents we are seeding. We wish you all a wonderful week and happy reading!
Content:
- Review: Xubuntu 19.10
- News: UBports posts status on porting to new platforms, DragonFly BSD offers emergency mode for HAMMER, Xfce team plans 4.16
- Questions and answers: Clarifying how init and service managers work together
- Torrent corner: Alpine, ArchBang, Archman, BSDRP, Clonezilla, ExTiX, GhostBSD, KDE neon, MX, PrimTux, Septor, SmartOS, Tails, Voyager
- Released last week: MX Linux 19, Tails 4.0, PrimTux 5
- Upcoming releases: Fedora 31
- Opinion poll: How do you feel about ZFS on root?
- Reader comments
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (16MB) and MP3 (12MB) formats.
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
Xubuntu 19.10
Xubuntu is an official community edition of Ubuntu and was winner of this season's poll where we asked readers which flavour of Ubuntu 19.10 we should review. People seemed most interested in Xubuntu's move from Xfce 4.12, which uses GTK2 libraries, to 4.14 which migrated to GTK3 libraries.
This version of Xubuntu offers just nine months of support through to July 2020. People who desire longer support cycles will want to stick with Xubuntu 18.04 or wait for Xubuntu 20.04 which will be released next April.
The project's release announcement offers some details as to what we can expect from the Xfce 4.14 desktop:
Xubuntu 19.10 features Xfce 4.14, released in August 2019 after nearly 4.5 years of development. Backed by GTK3 and other modern technologies, Xfce 4.14 includes many new features, improved HiDPI support, and the same great performance for which Xfce is known.
Xfce Screensaver replaces Light Locker for screen locking. The new screensaver is built on years of development from the GNOME and MATE Screensaver projects and is tightly integrated with Xfce. It also features significantly improved support for laptops."
This version of Xubuntu also introduces an experimental ZFS on root feature. While it has been possible to work with ZFS volumes on most Linux distributions for a few years now, most distributions do not provide an easy way to install the operating system on a ZFS storage volume. Since ZFS provides a number of useful features like on-line expansion to new devices, snapshots, metadata checksums, and transferring the filesystem across the network, it is nice to see this advanced filesystem get more attention on Ubuntu and its community editions.
Before I get into what it was like using Xubuntu, I would like to talk briefly about my very first impressions of other editions of Ubuntu 19.10. I downloaded each of the eight editions and used them just long enough to get a screenshot, package listing, and to confirm whether the edition worked with my hardware. The Ubuntu distribution itself did not do well. It was unable to boot without crashing or locking up in VirtualBox, and every time it booted on my laptop GNOME would immediately crash, returning me to the login screen. It took me four attempts to get logged into GNOME long enough to snap a screenshot as the desktop kept crashing shortly after I signed in.
Ubuntu MATE and Kubuntu performed better, but with a catch. Both distributions would boot to a blank screen, making it seem as though the operating system had failed to start. Using Ctrl+ALT+F7 would switch to the running desktop session, which was hidden for some reason at start-up. Ubuntu Kylin mostly worked well, but its desktop panel would crash if I resized the desktop. The other community editions booted and ran live environments without any immediate problems.
Now back to Xubuntu 19.10. The distribution is available for 64-bit (x86) machines exclusively. The download for Xubuntu is a 1.5GB ISO file. Booting from the media brings up a graphical window which asks if we wish to try or install Xubuntu. This window also displays a list of available languages we can select for our session. At the bottom of the window is a link to the project's release notes and clicking this link displays the requested page in the Firefox browser.
Taking the Try option loads the Xfce 4.14 desktop. Icons on the desktop launch the project's system installer and open the Thunar file manager. There is a thin panel at the top of the screen which holds the application menu, task switcher and system tray. At a glance there doesn't appear to be much difference between Xfce 4.12 and 4.14, the layout, style and tools are much the same. Most of the work between the two versions appears to have gone into migrating the code behind the scenes rather than changing the user experience.
Xubuntu 19.10 -- The Xubuntu Help documentation
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Installing
Xubuntu uses the Ubiquity installer which it shares with Ubuntu and most of the other Ubuntu community flavours. The installer begins by asking us to select our preferred language and it offers to show us a copy of the release notes. We are then given the option of downloading software updates during the installation and, if we like, to install third-party items such as media codecs and drivers. Disk partitioning comes next with three main categories of choices: guided installation, wipe the disk and use ZFS, or manual partitioning. The manual option is pleasantly straight forward and we can assign mount points to partitions with a few clicks. I decided to go back though and use ZFS during my trial. Partly because it is new and partly because I very much appreciate the array of features ZFS provides. ZFS as the operating system's main filesystem is labelled as experimental and not recommended for production systems yet, though it was set up properly in my tests.
The installer then asks us to pick our time zone from a map of the world. The last page asks us to make up a username and password while packages are copied to our drive. When the installer is finished it offers to restart the computer. My installs each went smoothly and fairly quickly.
Early impressions
Booting Xubuntu brings up a graphical login screen. Signing into our account loads the Xfce desktop again, decorated with a simple, blue background. Menus and the panel tend to be a soft grey and folders have a natural, "office folder yellow" colouring. When I first signed in there were no notifications or welcome screen. The distribution seems inclined to stay out of the way and let us get straight to work. One feature which encourages this straight-to-work approach is the Do Not Disturb button in the notification area. Toggling this button disables desktop notifications, though these tend to be rare anyway.
The desktop was pleasantly responsive and I didn't notice any problems or things requiring my attention so I dived straight into exploring what the operating system had to offer. The application menu has a two-pane layout with categories on the right and specific launchers on the left. There is a search bar at the top of the menu which helps us find specific programs.
Xubuntu 19.10 -- Experimenting with a dark theme
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Applications
Xubuntu ships with a fairly standard collection of popular open source applications. We are given the Firefox browser, LibreOffice, Thunderbird, the Transmission bittorrent software, and Pidgin messaging application. The Parole media player is included and can play both audio and video files. The Xfburn disc burning application is provided along with the GNU Image Manipulation Program, Atril document viewer, and a simple image viewer.
Xubuntu ships with the Thunar file manager, a local copy of the Xubuntu Help documentation, and a tool called Gigolo for connecting to remote network shares. Network Manager is included to help us get on-line. In the background we find the GNU Compiler Collection, the systemd init software, and version 5.3 of the Linux kernel.
Xubuntu 19.10 -- Running LibreOffice and GIMP
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When working from the command line, making a typo or trying to run a program which is not installed will cause a short message to be displayed telling us how to install the missing software. For example, if I try to run the Clang compiler before it is installed, the shell will ask me to first run "sudo apt install clang". This short message is helpful and does not introduce a noticeable delay in the shell's response to our command.
Software management
Xubuntu ships with a handful of tools for working with packages. The first is GNOME Software, a modern, graphical front-end to manipulating packages. GNOME Software is divided into three tabs - one for exploring available software, one for listing and removing installed applications, and one for displaying available updates.
When browsing for software we can type searches for keywords, we can browse through categories of desktop applications, or we can scroll through recommended items. Whichever method we use to find software, we can click on an item to bring up a full page description with a screenshot. Software can be added or removed with a click. The only issue I had with GNOME Software is it prompts for our password every time we queue a package for installation or removal. This can get tedious quickly, especially if we are removing multiple packages, each of which asks for confirmation, followed by a password prompt.
Xubuntu 19.10 -- Browsing packages with GNOME Software
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Another graphical tool is the update manager. When new packages are available the update manager will list them and, optionally, install them for us. It's a straight forward, no-frills experience.
People who wish to work with packages on the command line can use the APT collection of tools to work with individual packages. Xubuntu also ships with support for Snap packages. These can also be managed from the command line or, alternatively, we can work with Snap packages through GNOME Software. In fact, I could not (at a glance) tell whether new software I was installing via GNOME Software was a Snap package or a Deb package. The only indication I found that a package was a Deb or Snap was that Snap packages had a listed "channel" on their description page rather than just a version number. This means working with Snaps is a smooth experience, but it can be problematic from a resource management perspective because Snaps are a lot larger than Deb files (sometimes 20 times larger).
Hardware
I started off trying Xubuntu in a VirtualBox environment. The distribution ran smoothly and everything worked well. I was happy with how responsive Xfce was in the virtual machine. The only issue I ran into was sometimes the desktop would not automatically resize when the VirtualBox window changed size. It was still possible to manually change Xfce's resolution in the desktop's settings panel when the resolution did not change automatically.
When running Xubuntu on a workstation all my hardware was properly detected. The distribution ran smoothly and I encountered no serious problems or stability issues. When running on physical hardware I found that moving windows around the desktop sometimes lagged a little. Disabling the compositor fixed this issue. The problem only appeared when using the physical workstation and did not occur in the virtual environment.
The distribution is fairly light on resources. Xubuntu only required about 2.8GB of disk space for a fresh install. When running on a ZFS volume, the system used about 740MB of RAM when logged into Xfce, and this amount sometimes varied upward to 800MB. When running on a classic filesystem, such as ext4, Xubuntu uses less memory, about 360MB.
Using ZFS
Since ZFS as the root filesystem is one of the big (and experimental) features of this release I want to talk about it a bit. The user doesn't need to do anything when setting up ZFS. We just hand over control of our storage drive to the installer and it does the rest. Once we start using Xubuntu I found the system had a lot of ZFS mount points set up. The filesystem has been broken into a lot of little pieces and the layout seems designed for a server more than a desktop as several of the sub-volumes are in the /var directory and contain things like mail and logs. (Having rapidly changing content, like the /var directory, on a separate sub-volume makes managing snapshots easier on servers, but has little practical impact on desktop machines.) This makes using tools like df a little cluttered, but there is no practical side effect.
Xubuntu 19.10 -- Creating ZFS snapshots
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All the commonly used ZFS functions seem to work. I was able to create snapshots, restore files from snapshots, set user storage quotas. Compression is turned off by default, but we can enable it to reduce the amount of physical storage our files require and there was no noticeable performance penalty when I tried this.
I didn't notice much of a performance impact from using ZFS. In some cases I think write-intensive operations, such as installing packages, might have been a little slower, but otherwise ZFS offered approximately the same performance I would have expected from any distribution running on ext4. I really liked the ability to set up snapshots and, even more, the option of expanding storage space by just plugging in a new drive and adding it to the storage pool with a single zpool command. I am hoping future versions of the Ubuntu family also add boot environments, as openSUSE has with Btrfs snapshots, as that would make the operating system much more resilient against configuration problems and broken upgrades.
Conclusions
I feel I do not get to say this often enough: this distribution is boring in the best possible way. Even with new, experimental filesystem support and a complete shift in the libraries used to power the Xfce desktop, Xubuntu is beautifully stable, fast, and easy to navigate. The distribution shipped with defaults I found pleasant, the desktop was responsive, all of my hardware was detected, and even with ZFS enabled (with multiple features turned on) the distribution still used less memory than Ubuntu or Fedora Workstation on the same hardware.
Perhaps what I appreciated most about Xubuntu was that it did not distract me or get in the way at all. I did not see a notification or a pop-up or welcome screen during my trial. The distribution just installed and got out of my way so I could start working. And to further facilitate that, Xubuntu ships with a great collection of open source applications. There are enough to get most tasks accomplished without cluttering the menu. It's a fine line to walk and Xubuntu does it well.
I have some mixed feelings about Snap packages being enabled by default and seamlessly integrated with GNOME Software. For people who like to use Snaps and want quick access to them, this is great. If you prefer to use classic Deb packages over Snaps then the new approach may cause you to accidentally download the larger, portable package. I am fairly neutral on Snap, but I do prefer to install the smaller Deb package if it is available and GNOME Software does not seem to give preference to one over the other.
On the whole I am impressed with Xubuntu 19.10. I found myself wishing this was an LTS release as I would like to put this version on several computers, particular those of family members who run Linux on laptops. Xubuntu is providing a great balance between new features, stability, performance, and options and I highly recommend it for almost any desktop scenario.
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Hardware used in this review
My physical test equipment for this review was a desktop HP Pavilon p6 Series with the following specifications:
- Processor: Dual-core 2.8GHz AMD A4-3420 APU
- Storage: 500GB Hitachi hard drive
- Memory: 6GB of RAM
- Networking: Realtek RTL8111 wired network card, Ralink RT5390R PCIe Wireless card
- Display: AMD Radeon HD 6410D video card
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Visitor supplied rating
Xubuntu has a visitor supplied average rating of: 8/10 from 68 review(s).
Have you used Xubuntu? You can leave your own review of the project on our ratings page.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
UBports posts status on porting to new platforms, DragonFly BSD offers emergency mode for HAMMER, Xfce team plans 4.16
The UBports team has been working on supporting more platforms, including the PinePhone, the Librem 5, and the Raspberry Pi. While work on all platforms is going well and initial progress in getting the mobile operating system running on these devices has been successful, there are still challenges remaining. One of the hurdles UBports developers now face is the Librem 5 devkit and the final product use some different hardware components. "Unfortunately, hardware changes between the Librem 5 devkit and the final phone mean that we can't be certain that any of the fixes we make on the devkit will carry over to the final product. Purism informed us that we will be receiving Librem 5 devices sometime in 2020. Purism says they want to ship to backers who paid for the Librem 5 device first, prior to sending us devices for development. For those reasons, we can not commit to more development on the platform until we have a final device." Additional details can be found in a UBports blog post. People who are receiving Librem 5 phones now will be running a mobile version of PureOS with a GNOME-based interface.
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DragonFly BSD has introduced a new feature for HAMMER filesystems which will allow operations to occur, even in situations when there is not enough storage space to allow for the usual data protections. DragonFly BSD Digest explains: "As anyone who has been running HAMMER1 or HAMMER2 has noticed, snapshots and copy on write and infinite history can eat a lot of disk space, even if the actual file volume isn't changing much. There's now an emergency mode for HAMMER2, where disk operations can happen even if there isn't space for the normal history activity. It's dangerous, in that the normal protections against data loss if power is cut go away, and snapshots created while in this mode will be mangled. So definitely don't leave it on!"
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The Xfce team has recently finished their migration from using GTK2 libraries to the newer GTK3 libraries which power the GNOME and MATE desktops. The Xfce team has worked to keep their desktop experience unchanged while making this migration, but now that it has been completed, the developers are looking at ways to improve their desktop experience. Changes coming to Xfce are presented in this blog post: "In the 4.14 cycle we tried to do a 1:1 port of what used to be our GTK2 desktop environment, avoiding visual changes. In the 4.16 cycle we plan to harmonize the appearance of certain elements that either became inconsistent through the port or already were inconsistent before (e.g. toolbars or inline toolbars). We will also play with client-side decorations where we feel it makes sense (for instance replacing the so-called XfceTitledDialog, that is used for all settings dialogs with a HeaderBar version). Before anyone gets too excited (both positively or negatively): It is not planned to redesign more complex applications (like Thunar) with HeaderBars in 4.16. We will however try to keep the experience and looks consistent, which means gradually moving to client side decorations also with our applications (please note that client side decorations are not the same as HeaderBars!). Through this change e.g. 'dark modes' in applications will look good." Progress being made on Xfce 4.16 can be monitored through the project's roadmap.
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Clarifying how init and service managers work together
Curious-about-service-managers asks: Could you clarify how the different init system options work together and/or replace other init options and/or service managers? I got to thinking about this when reading your article about Adélie, where it said: "The distribution runs on version 4.14 of the Linux kernel and uses a combination of SysV init and OpenRC to start and manage services."
I was under the impression that OpenRC replaces SysV, but apparently I'm not understanding something. It must be that systemd includes both an init system and a service manager (systemctl?), whereas SysV is only for initializing the system and OpenRC is only for controlling services? Then I read a comment from a reader that said:
"Void uses runit, which I prefer over Alpine's SysV/OpenRC." So apparently runit also combines an init system and a service manager?
DistroWatch answers: I think the easiest way to approach this (often complex) topic is to first define what initialization (init) software is and what a service manager is. The init process is the first userland process that gets started on a Linux, BSD or other Unix/Unix-like operating system. It runs right after the kernel. Because init is the first process run, it is sometimes referred to as PID 1 (process ID 1).
The init process has a couple of core tasks:
- It gets the userland part of the operating system up and running. Different versions of init approach how this is done differently.
- It acts as the adoptive parent of processes which no longer have a running parent process.
- It helps shutdown or reboot the system.
Sometimes init implementations will do other things, but these are the core functions each version of init should have.
A service manager is a tool that starts and stops background processes. These processes are sometimes called services or daemons. A service manager typically needs to have some way to keep track of dependencies between services (making sure the network comes on-line before synchronizing the system clock with a remote server is a good example). Some service managers will also monitor background processes and restart them if they crash, restrict resource usage, and log actions.
What typically happens when a Linux distribution boots is its init software (whether that is runit, SysV init, systemd, or another implementation) does some minimal work to get things in order and then runs a program or script that acts as a service manager to bring all the necessary background services on-line. Then, when it is time to shutdown the system, the service manager will start telling background programs to terminate and, when it is done, init will take the system off-line.
Here is where it gets tricky. Most init implementations are not just one component, or one program. Most init implementations ship with multiple programs that assist in bringing the operating system on-line, monitoring processes, and shutting down the system. Because of this separation of specific tasks into multiple programs or scripts, it is often possible to mix an init process with a service manager from another project. For instance, most distributions which use OpenRC as their service manager run SysV init as the underlying PID 1. However, it does not need to be this way. The OpenRC project does include its own init program and can use it as a replacement for SysV init.
In a similar fashion, runit can be used as a complete init & service manager implementation, and I think Void does this. However, one could launch the runit service manager components from SysV init, if they wanted. Generally speaking, the init process does not care what it runs to manage services on the operating system. This allows administrators to experiment with different service managers.
As you correctly assumed, the systemd project also includes both init software and a service manager. If I remember correctly, systemd is unusual in that it merges the init software and service manager into one process. This may be viewed as a more streamlined approach, or more monolithic, depending on one's point of view. Services can be enabled, disabled, started, and stopped by the administrator through the systemctl program. The systemctl program is not the service manager itself, rather it provides the administrator with a way to inspect and manipulate processes handled by the service manager. On most distributions running SysV init software the tool for starting and stopping services is called service, and on distributions that use OpenRC as the service manager there are a few commands for handling services.
All of that is to say that a distribution's init and service manager are closely tied, but separate roles. It is possible to have a distribution that uses the same technology (SysV init, BusyBox, OpenRC, runit, systemd) for both roles. However, it is also possible to mix components from different projects so that SysV init or BusyBox gets things started and then hands service management over to OpenRC or runit.
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In the interest of disclosure, please note that I am an upstream maintainer for SysV init.
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Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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| Released Last Week |
Tails 4.0
The Amnesic Incognito Live System (Tails) is a Debian-based live DVD/USB with the goal of providing complete Internet anonymity for the user. The project has released a new version, Tails 4.0, which is the first version to be based on Debian 10 "Buster". "We are especially proud to present you Tails 4.0, the first version of Tails based on Debian 10 (Buster). It brings new versions of most of the software included in Tails and some important usability and performance improvements. Tails 4.0 introduces more changes than any other version since years. This release also fixes many security issues. You should upgrade as soon as possible. Major changes to included software: Replace KeePassX with KeePassXC, which is more actively developed. Update OnionShare from 0.9.2 to 1.3.2, which includes a lot of usability improvements. Update Tor Browser to 9.0: A gray border, called letter boxing, is now displayed around the content of web pages when you resize the window of Tor Browser. Letter boxing prevents websites from identifying your browser based on the size of its window. Letter boxing replaces the yellow warning that was displayed until now when maximizing Tor Browser. The onion icon has been removed from the top bar." Further details can be found in the project's release announcement.
MX Linux 19
The MX Linux team has published a new version of their Debian- and antiX-based distribution. The project's latest version, MX Linux 19, is based on Debian 10.1 "Buster" and features the Xfce 4.14 desktop along with the SysV init software. "We are pleased to offer MX-19 for your use. As usual, this ISO includes the latest updates from Debian 10.1 (Buster), antiX and MX repos. Xfce 4.14, GIMP 2.10.12, MESA 18.3.6, updated firmware, Latest debian 4.19 kernel, patched sudo info. Browser: Firefox 69; Video Player: VLC 3.0.8; Music Manager/Player: Clementine 1.3.1; E-mail client: Thunderbird 60.9.0; Office suite: LibreOffice 6.1.5 (plus security fixes); and more in the MX repositories. New and updated mx-apps: mx-installer (based on gazelle-installer) fixes pertaining to automount and partitioning. MX Date & Time, to make clock setting chores easier. formatusb, for formatting USB storage devices. mx-packageinstaller now displays version number for Flatpak applications. mx-packageinstaller now features libreoffice upgrades from Debian Backports (currently 6.3.X). mx-alerts package for sending emergency messages to users. mx-updater no longer requires a password to check for updates (still required for installation of updates). New wallpaper artwork (mx19-artwork package). New app: bash-config to help with theming your bash prompt and managing aliases." Further details can be found in the distribution's release announcement.
MX Linux 19 -- The welcome window and Xfce desktop's application menu
(full image size: 540kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
UBports 16.04 OTA-11
The UBports team has published an update to their mobile operating system. The new version, 16.04 OTA-11, features improved keyboard navigation, more fine-grained web browsing options, and push notifications no longer require that the user have an Ubuntu One account. "We were calling this a "small release" originally. Our plan was to cover the backlog of pull requests that weren't quite ready for OTA-10. It turns out, that made this 'small' update not small at all. Your keyboard, now smarter: Kugi has outdone himself this time. With this update you'll find a new way to edit text via the Ubuntu Touch on-screen keyboard: the Advanced Text Functions. Using this feature, you can move around your typed text, undo and redo actions, move around a text selection rectangle, and use the cut/copy/paste commands, all from the same overlay. To get started, press and hold the space bar! We are still unsure about the discoverability of this feature, so stay tuned for changes that will make it even easier to find and use! This update also adds the option of a Dvorak keyboard layout for the refined OSK user. The PR included fixes to allow multiple keyboard layouts to share the same correction dictionary and word overrides. Huge thanks, zoenb! Rounding off the updates to the keyboard are improvements to the Polish layout, removing some diacritics that are not used in the language." Additional information on this release can be found in the project's release announcement.
ExTiX 19.10
ExTiX is a desktop distribution based on Ubuntu. The project's latest release, ExTiX 19.10, is based on Ubuntu 19.10 and features the LXQt desktop. The project's release announcement states: "I have made a new version of ExTiX - The Ultimate Linux System. I call it ExTiX 19.10 LXQt Live DVD. The best thing with ExTiX 19.10 is that while running the system live (from DVD/USB) or from hard drive you can use Refracta Snapshot (pre-installed) to create your own live installable Ubuntu system. So easy that a ten year child can do it! One other very good thing with this version of ExTiX is that it is quite light. The ISO file is of only 1,200MB, which means that you can run the system super fast from RAM. When the boot process is ready you can eject the DVD or USB stick. Use Boot Alternative 2 or Advanced options -> Load to RAM. NVIDIA's proprietary graphics driver 430.50 is pre-installed in ExTiX 19.10. It will automatically be used if your computer has support for it. ExTiX 19.10 LXQt DVD 64-bit is based on Debian and Ubuntu 19.10. The original system includes the desktop environment GNOME. After removing GNOME I have installed LXQt 0.14.1. LXQt is the Qt port and the upcoming version of LXDE, the Lightweight Desktop Environment. It is the product of the merge between the LXDE-Qt and the Razor-qt projects: A lightweight, modular, blazing-fast and user-friendly desktop environment."
ExTiX 19.10 -- Running the LXQt desktop
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PrimTux 5
PrimTux is a lightweight distribution developed by a small team of school teachers and computer enthusiasts in the educational environment. The project's latest release is available in two editions with one based on Lubuntu for 64-bit machines and one on Debian for 32-bit machines. An English translation of the project's release announcement (in French) reads: "Here are the main new features: Student sessions are not installed by default. Teachers and parents can easily create the desired sessions through executable scripts from the welcome window. In the same way, it is possible to choose the launcher of applications sessions: HandyMenu or BNE (School Digital Office). Several adapted applications of click menus and developed in web technologies by the team are emerging. Whiskers menu in all sessions; the theme has been reviewed. Through the association Collective PrimTux, the team increases its initiatives to better recognize the distribution. Contacts with academic officials of the National Education." The live session is password protected and the admin password is "tuxprof".
Voyager Live 19.10
The Voyager Live team has published a new version of the project's Ubuntu-based distribution. The new version, Voyager Live 19.10, ships with GNOME 3.34 and version 5.3 of the Linux kernel. The new release provides nine months of support. An English translation of the project's release announcement (in French) reads: "Introducing Voyager GE 19.10, which continues the adventure with the GNOME Shell version 3.34 desktop by introducing new features. With the promise finally realized to have a light, fast, fluid and powerful GNOME environment. This version is based on the Linux 5.3 kernel and the Ubuntu Eoan Ermine distribution. The 19.10 release is an intermediate version with 9 months of update which prepares for the future version 20.04 LTS (long-term support) of 5 years which arrives every 2 years. The general idea of Voyager is to introduce GNOME Shell with pre-installed GNOME extensions and scripts grouped in an environment that optimize the system with a choice of necessary software. All with a redesigned ergonomics. Warning: Voyager 19.10 is just a variant of Ubuntu. The entire internal structure is left by default to avoid any security issues and packages and all updates come from official Ubuntu repositories."
GhostBSD 19.10
Eric Turgeon has announced the release of GhostBSD 19.10, the latest stable build of the project's desktop-oriented, rolling-release operating system based on TrueOS and featuring the MATE desktop environment: "I am happy to announce the availability of GhostBSD 19.10 with some improvement to the live ISO image and UEFI multiboot fix and improvement. GhostBSD 19.10 is a significant improvement over 19.09. Our latest ISO image contains improvements to our EFI multiboot installation process and our backend installer. GhostBSD 19.09 marked the last major change of GhostBSD. For current users of GhostBSD 19.09, there is no need to re-install to upgrade to GhostBSD 19.10. For new users, the GhostBSD 19.10 ISO image provides a simple, elegant installation process to get you going quickly. Changes since 19.09: UEFI multiboot installation for supported hardware; changed the ISO boot setup; removed netmount services. Issues fixed: bug #113 - update station issues; feature #119 - rewrite the code to build the live ISO image in order to fix the EFI issue caused by sysroot...." Here is the full release announcement with screenshots and upgrade instructions.
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 1,675
- Total data uploaded: 28.6TB
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) |
How do you feel about ZFS on root?
In our review of Xubuntu we talked about ZFS on root (installing the operating system on a ZFS storage volume) being introduced as an experimental feature. ZFS offers a lot of advantages over classic filesystems, such as snapshots, protection against bitrot, transparent compression, and on-line expansion to new devices. In the past we covered some common misunderstandings about ZFS.
We would like to know how you feel about ZFS. Do you plan to use it, or are you planning to stick with classic filesystems like ext4? We would like to hear your thoughts in the comments.
You can see the results of our previous poll on purchasing commercial support in last week's edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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How do you feel about ZFS on root?
| I am using ZFS on root and like it: | 107 (7%) |
| I am using ZFS on root and do not like it: | 7 (0%) |
| I am not using it yet but plan to try ZFS on root: | 287 (19%) |
| I am not using ZFS on root and have no plans to use it: | 644 (42%) |
| I am not using ZFS on root and am undecided: | 479 (31%) |
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| Website News (by Jesse Smith) |
DistroWatch database summary
* * * * *
This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 4 November 2019. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Article Search page. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
- Bruce Patterson (podcast)
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(Tips this week: 0, value: US$0.00) |
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Xfce (by must on 2019-10-28 00:31:34 GMT from France)
Nice review of Xubuntu Xfce.
Hope to see soon the Fedora Silverblue Review
2 • Xubuntu 18.10 (by Carlos Felipe on 2019-10-28 00:38:44 GMT from Brazil)
"I have some mixed feelings about Snap packages being enabled by default and seamlessly integrated with GNOME Software. For people who like to use Snaps and want quick access to them, this is great. If you prefer to use classic Deb packages over Snaps then the new approach may cause you to accidentally download the larger, portable package. I am fairly neutral on Snap, but I do prefer to install the smaller Deb package if it is available and GNOME Software does not seem to give preference to one over the other."
You took the words out of my mouth.
3 • This weeks edition (by EarlyBird on 2019-10-28 01:22:20 GMT from Canada)
While the review of Xubuntu featuring Xfce 4.12 and support for ZFS on root was certainly the main item of interest this week, also really appreciated the nice clear explanation about the workings of init and service managers.
Wonder if anyone has links to a tutorial, or maybe a presentation with complete visual layout of each of these systems with side-by-side comparison charts including typical scripts used in each system.
While on that topic, couple of files about init systems from the busybox site that were interesting:
init_vs_runsv.html
kill_it_with_fire.txt
4 • ZFS / Xubuntu (by Teresa e Junior on 2019-10-28 02:47:12 GMT from Brazil)
I have no plans to switch from ext4, at least on my legacy HDD, since performance is still the best on ext4 comparing to any other filesystem. Btrfs on LUKS was one of the worst things I ever did to my desktop.
Xubuntu has been unbeatable for me. Unfortunately, the latest Xfwm4 has an annoying bug that causes it to slowdown in a few days of use. It seems the problem is fixed on Git, I've compiled it and I'm currently testing.
5 • Xubuntu - no 32bit install options (by Andy Prough on 2019-10-28 03:59:32 GMT from United States)
From the review: "Now back to Xubuntu 19.10. The distribution is available for 64-bit (x86) machines exclusively."
I think that's just awful, just a truly horrible decision. The whole point of XFCE has been to provide a fairly lightweight desktop that can run well, even on older hardware.
Good thing MX and antiX havn't given up on the parts of humanity that the Ubuntu project no longer seems to care to connect to.
6 • @5 (by Jason Hsu on 2019-10-28 04:43:26 GMT from United States)
@5, Xubuntu dropped 32-bit support because Ubuntu did. I can't blame the Ubuntu team for dropping 32-bit support. Those old PCs that lack 64-bit support are over 10 years old and too slow for Ubuntu's high overhead. There's no point in supporting PCs that are too slow for Ubuntu-based distros.
It makes sense for MX Linux, antiX Linux, and other lightweight distros to still support 32-bit-only PCs. A significant percentage of the user base uses such old and slow PCs, and Debian still supports 32-bit systems. I believe that Debian will support 32-bit hardware for at least another decade. 10 years from now, 32-bit-only hardware will seem as old as Windows 95 era PCs seem now. (And how many people still use such old computers?)
7 • @6 - Ubuntu/Xubuntu 32-bit support (by Andy Prough on 2019-10-28 05:26:41 GMT from United States)
Here's a statement about Xubuntu's "target audience" from their original 2009 "Strategy Document" - "Xubuntu does not exclusively target users with low, modest, or high powered machines but instead targets the entire spectrum with a strong focus on enabling lower end machines. Xubuntu's extra responsiveness and speed, among other positive traits, can be appreciated by all users regardless of their hardware."
The document noted that the "profile" for an Xubuntu user would include those with as little as 192mb of RAM - allowing them to browse the web, play music, and edit documents.
To say that throwing away x86 support isn't an abdication of the project's original goals is to simply ignore the project's own history.
8 • Chromium & Snap (by Lupus on 2019-10-28 05:31:13 GMT from Germany)
If you want to install Chromium via apt it installs the Snap package using a transitional package. Why on earth can't they put through the Debian Chromium which might be a few versions behind???
9 • Using ZFS (by RJules3 on 2019-10-28 05:39:41 GMT from Germany)
The better is the enemy of the good. ZFS is a so much better file system it caused me to stick with Project Trident. The developers there offered a simple graphical user environment to utilize ZFS. One of my most favoured abilities of ZFS are boot environments. They are a well working tool to roll back your system to a working condition, if something went wrong with an installation, update, upgrade, or whatever. During this process you don't loose any data at all. With ZFS it is easy to set up a mirror of hard disks, giving you the opportunity to work incessantly during the failure of a hard disk. From my point of view it would be a kind of regression to turn back to any different file system.
10 • Xubuntu (by Manos on 2019-10-28 06:23:42 GMT from Greece)
One serious issue about Xubuntu is the black screen which appears after hibernation, instead of login screen and I haven't yet come across a workaround!
11 • I highly recommend it for almost any desktop scenario (by OstroL on 2019-10-28 06:35:42 GMT from Poland)
"I highly recommend it for almost any desktop scenario"
Its been a long time to see this line in a distro review! I am really glad to see that, as it tells us that there are still really good distros. It was also nice that Jessie didn't review Ubuntu for it is buggy at installation and at work.
Having had a look at snaps for sometime, it'd be best to uninstall the few default snaps that comes with the iso. They are much slower than the standard deb apps. I do hope that the Xubuntu devs had placed a disclaimer on those snap apps, so the user would know which ones are they. Why slow down a really fast distro unnecessarily?
I suspect that the volume of Ubuntu (Gnome) downloads are much less than in previous releases. After all, earlier Ubuntu-Gnome was the most unpopular flavour those days.
12 • Xubuntu (by Romane on 2019-10-28 06:47:54 GMT from Australia)
It was with interest I read todays review of Xubuntu.
Let me put some things in context from my perspective. I do not, nor have I ever liked, Ubuntu, and generally avoid it and anything to do with it as though it has the plague. Nothing to do with whether it is a good system or not. I simply do not like it. I have been running straight Debian (Testing) for a lot of years, and very happy.
But I was interested in this update to Xubuntu. XFCE has been my desktop-of-choice for quite some time, and the update from 4.12 to 4.14 overcame my dislike of Ubuntu sufficiently to download and test it.
Xubuntu impressed me. Very strongly impressed me. My impression coincides with those of Jesse in his review.
I appreciated the sane defaults that came with Xubuntu in the install. I appreciate the sane selection of working packages.
But... Snap, while it may be OK for many packages, is useless with the one application I consider essential to my daily grind - it fails to run properly. Very quickly I swapped out Snap for Flatpak, which version of this package runs perfectly.
Yet here again, Xubuntu impressed me. Once I had made the necessary changes to my system, removing snap and installing flatpak, the software management automatically updated to include flatpak as seamlessly as it had with snap before.
I even used the Xubuntu system (yes, I had installed to my rust-disk, as testing for my very old laptop, among other things) for a whole day, and can honestly same that Xubuntu is the one Distribution which, If I am to swap from Debian Testing, would be my choice. I don't care that not long term support - that side of "things" has never interested me.
It is good to see sensible developers doing sensible things.
13 • Lower End (by whoKnows on 2019-10-28 06:51:29 GMT from United Kingdom)
@7
"lower end machines" != "ancient junk"
Isn't something like Lenovo T61p (2008) a very, very low end nowadays?
It had 64-bit support already.
Isn't a brand new Celeron/Pentuim notebok (300 ~ 500 $} with 4 GB a lowest low end machine nowadys, even if it came on the market this year?
Does anybody really needs a Laptop/PC which is slower and less powerfull than a smartphone?
14 • Xubuntu/32-bits support (by Frederic on 2019-10-28 07:51:04 GMT from United States)
1. Good review of Xubuntu. Xubuntu really is a stable and boring distro, it just works. For sure one of my favorit distros.
2. @7: The computing world changes, project's original goals change, 32-bit machine are dying out, Ubuntu,Fedora etc. do not support 32-bits systems anymore, and for very good reasons I think. But if you have a 32-bits system, Debian is your friend.
15 • No.6 & 32bit (by Smurf on 2019-10-28 08:23:33 GMT from United Kingdom)
"...how many people still use such old computers?" Many, many folks across the globe who are not in the USA! Nuff said.
16 • @7 (by Teresa e Junior on 2019-10-28 08:39:10 GMT from Brazil)
Xubuntu simply has not the resources to maintain all 32 bits packages by themselves.
17 • ZFS for root (by Alexandru on 2019-10-28 08:43:32 GMT from Romania)
I used ZFS for root filesystem on Solaris / OpenIndiana and then for FreeBSD. Unfortunately, I just followed defaults for it and didn't use any of very velcome advanced filesystem management tools ZFS has to offer.
I can't manage to install OpenIndiana with FreeBSD as dual boot on the same disk, both using ZFS for their root, because the disk cannot use 2 ZFS partitions, both containing root fs (as soon as the second OS gets installed on separate ZFS volume, the first ceases to boot). Probably more in line of ZFS philosophy would be to use the same ZFS volume for both OpenIndiana and FreeBSD with separate subvolumes, but I never make it done. If somebody knows how to deal with ZFS multiboot on the same disk, please let me know in comments. Thank you.
18 • 32-bit (by Jo on 2019-10-28 09:54:42 GMT from United States)
@15 Sure. But how much percent worldwide and for how long?
19 • snap and his depencies (by denk_mal on 2019-10-28 11:16:30 GMT from Germany)
I don't like snap (to fat and ugly for me) so I took at first a look on the depencies and - surprise, surprise - the pulseaudio daemon need the libsnapd daemon.
Does anybody knows a common replacement for pulseaudio?
20 • Ubuntu Xfce 19.10 (by Rick on 2019-10-28 11:36:19 GMT from United States)
The last version of Ubuntu Xfce I tried to install (18.04) failed completely. Mint Xfce or MX Linux is a much better choice. Ubuntu's glory days are L-O-N-G gone!
21 • Pulseaudio (by Jo on 2019-10-28 11:37:03 GMT from United States)
Sure. Try ALSA (Advanced Linux Sound Architecture). Its very good and, in my opinion, better than PulseAudio.
22 • 32-bit Support Xubuntu (by Guido on 2019-10-28 11:56:19 GMT from Philippines)
If you need 32 bit support for your hardware, I can only recommend switching to MX Linux, which is based on Debian Buster. A very good substitute for Xubuntu!
23 • Xubuntu (by Luxie Tuxie on 2019-10-28 12:18:22 GMT from Canada)
Nice review.
I have used ZFS with Solaris while ago.
24 • Not revelent (by Garon on 2019-10-28 12:41:41 GMT from United States)
@20, This review was for 19.10 Rick. This has nothing to do with 18.04. so why even bring it up?
25 • Desperate with Xubuntu 19.10 (by Xubuntu Eoan Ermine on 2019-10-28 13:05:47 GMT from Singapore)
I was experiencing something better from Xubuntu 19.10, as it is the first Xubuntu release with Xfce 4.14.
I was even planning to migrate from current Linux Mint Xfce Edition if the experience was good enough.
Unfortunately, Xubuntu Eoan failed to make a positive impression for me.
Let's wait for the upcoming LTS release.
26 • ZFS (by Stan on 2019-10-28 13:29:54 GMT from United States)
I do not have ZFS on root and will not use it on root. I have a ZFS pool on 3 hard disks and I have Devuan 2.0.0 on disk # 1. I can replace or reinstall the operating system and import my zpool afterwards with no problems so I really don't see the advantage to having ZFS on root. I have had my zpool ever sense Jessie was released in Debian. I have had no problem with it. I have never used snapshots because the operating system is on a different drive. If I have a problem with the OS I just need to reinstall it and import the zpool. Very simple.
27 • @6 - How are we interpreting "lower end" hardware? (by Mr. Ware on 2019-10-28 14:25:48 GMT from United States)
Lower end hardware could mean a Walmart Acer with 4mb of RAM, with an old core-duo processor. but still being 64-bit. Curious though how they carefully chose their words. Lower end may still exclude 32-bit perhaps.
28 • @7 - How are we interpreting "lower end" hardware? (by Mr. Ware on 2019-10-28 14:32:09 GMT from United States)
@6 - please disregard...
Lower end hardware could mean a Walmart Acer with 4mb of RAM, with an old core-duo processor but still being 64-bit. Curious though how they carefully chose their words. Lower end may still exclude 32-bit perhaps.
29 • Xfce 4.14 (by TheTKS on 2019-10-28 15:04:41 GMT from Canada)
@10 “ One serious issue about Xubuntu is the black screen which appears after hibernation, instead of login screen and I haven't yet come across a workaround!”
You might want to try changing vblank options or disabling the compositor, if it’s an Xfce and not an Ubuntu problem.
For vblank, read the Xfce compositor manager notes (available online.) To turn off the compositor, go to Settings - Window Manager Tweaks - last tab, click off compositor (or similar steps - not at my computer with Xfce right now.)
With Xfce 4.14 on OpenBSD 6.6, I got both many screen freezes and blank screens a few times (which might just be a particular type of screen freeze) before figuring out that turning off the compositor fixed the problem for me and now it is working well, aside from a Catfish problem. Changing vblank options didn’t fix the problem for me. I found that other people have fixed screen freezes by turning off hardware acceleration in their xorg conf files, which also didn’t work for me.
Xubuntu 18.04 just works for me for what I need it to do. I’m not moving from LTS - I’ll wait for 20.04. I do hope they make it clearer and easier to manage deb vs snap versions of packages.
TKS
30 • @16 - Xubuntu - 32bit (by Andy Prough on 2019-10-28 15:12:46 GMT from United States)
> "Xubuntu simply has not the resources to maintain all 32 bits packages by themselves."
Fortunately they don't have to do it all by themselves since they are downstream from Debian, and Debian already maintains all the 32 bit packages.
31 • my recommended GNU Linux distro for a new commer, as of 2019 (by Ram on 2019-10-28 15:54:27 GMT from India)
The award goes to Ubuntu Studio 19.10 :)
Based on Xubuntu, includes all necessary apps a present day desktop/workstation user would need. Works out-of-box, stable, reliable, fast.
One thing I don't get clear, why the Ubuntu Studio & AV Linux use XFCE instead of Mate...!! Recently Mate has done a good improvement, looking for the 20.04 version of the Ubuntu Mate... :)
32 • RE:Clarify Init/Service Managers (by 2damncomon on 2019-10-28 18:30:04 GMT from United States)
Thank you for the article.
I like that you keep articles about this topic "non political".
I'd also like to say thanks for your work on SysV.
33 • xbuntu and older machines (by Gary on 2019-10-28 18:38:39 GMT from United States)
I have used a number of distros that use the Xfce desktop.Most of these are customized for the particular distro. My only real problem with any of them has been the slowdown of booting into or sluggishness of the system after a short time of use.
I fix/repair older desktop machines for family, friends. and neighbors. Now I find I get many more 64 bit systems than I used to. With the slower processor machines, Xfce and LXDE-QT desktops work best. For faster machines with more memory, the KDE desktop gives the end user more 'eye candy' they want. The Cinnamon desktop is usually the next most requested desktop they request. (I show an example of each desktop to the owner/user of the machine and let them choose)
IS there a work around or a distro that has the slowdown of XFCE fixed? I have used the Peach OSI distro for about a year and that annoying slow down is my only complaint with it.
34 • Mintstick doesn't work on Xubuntu (by Jeff TIncher on 2019-10-28 18:49:17 GMT from United States)
Mintstick doesn't work on Xubuntu
35 • @33 - XFCE slowdown (by Andy Prough on 2019-10-28 19:42:47 GMT from United States)
I've used XFCE on antiX for a couple months, and moved to XFCE on MX this past week and have not noticed any slowdown. One person said it happened on Xubuntu after a few days of use - do you know how long a period to wait to see it, and what are the main symptoms to look for?
36 • Xubuntu (by vern on 2019-10-28 19:47:30 GMT from United States)
My Xubuntu doesn't slow down at all. Its installed on a partition and not a virtual machine. Also my used memory is hovering around 399 mb. My Ubuntu is almost double that number.
37 • Lightweight DE comparisons are pointless! (by mikef90000 on 2019-10-28 20:15:37 GMT from United States)
Current web browsers like Firefox and Chrome use far more RAM and CPU cycles than many DEs, so much more of a reason for retiring your ancient 32 bit hardware.
Those of you whining about the plight of users in developing countries, well how about donating a five y/o refurbished desktop or laptop to the cause! It will also put less load on the probably less developed electrical grid.
38 • @37 - developing countries (by Andy Prough on 2019-10-28 20:34:53 GMT from United States)
> "Those of you whining about the plight of users in developing countries, well how about donating a five y/o refurbished desktop or laptop to the cause! It will also put less load on the probably less developed electrical grid."
There isn't a single word by anyone on this forum except you about developing countries. My experience in developing areas is that people are much more likely to be using android phones for computing and going online, rather than old PCs.
39 • @38, 37, developing countries (by Angel on 2019-10-28 21:00:47 GMT from Philippines)
In agreement with @38 Andy Prough. Having spent the bulk of my last 20 years in developing countries, I speak from experience, not hearsay. Android has nearly the lion's share of normal users, with a smattering of Apple mobile for the well-off. For those needing PCs, (usually for schools or business use) just about anything available at used shops is quite capable of running 64 bit. Sending old, obsolete units will just add to the disposal problem.
I run a 32 bit Windows 10 on a VM. Other than that, it's been quite awhile since I installed a 32 bit system for anyone.
40 • no screen freezes and blank screens with vanilla xfce (by sobolan on 2019-10-28 22:10:10 GMT from Moldova, Republic of)
xfce 4.14 on manjaro i3 edition, installed manually from arch repositories.
It runs smoothly and without any trouble for ~ 2 months.
So i think that the issues are distribution specific (either xubuntu or openbsd from comments)
the default xfce 4.14 works just fine for me.
41 • philosophical question about ZFS (by sobolan on 2019-10-28 22:13:01 GMT from Moldova, Republic of)
also I have a question:
is it possible to relicence OpenZFS to a more permissive licences.
For example Apache/Mozilla or some BSD.
So that it would be possible to include ZFS in linux kernel itself ?
42 • Lower-end hardware (by hacr on 2019-10-28 22:31:19 GMT from France)
For what it's worth, my desktop workstation has 2 GB memory and an Intel Core2 Duo (2,9GHz) CPU. Most of the software I use does pretty well on that machine (including GIMP), Firefox being a notable exception.
I use VLC to stream audio and video instead of the hilariously resource-intensive junk interfaces provided by most websites. That's how it's supposed to be, anyway. A web browser is not a media player. You'd think that should be apparent from the name.
Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any truly viable replacement for Firefox yet. I mean just for web browsing, i.e., navigating through hypertext documents with the occasional occurence of images. (Call me a conservative.)
43 • @42 Re: Firefox (by Rev_Don on 2019-10-28 23:03:20 GMT from United States)
I've never run into any problems using FireFox on Core2Duo systems. I do run Ublock Origin on them to block the ads though as I find the Ads are what make browsers active sluggish.
44 • @42 Re: Firefox (by Andy Prough on 2019-10-28 23:59:28 GMT from United States)
> "Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any truly viable replacement for Firefox yet. I mean just for web browsing, i.e., navigating through hypertext documents with the occasional occurence of images. (Call me a conservative.)"
Might try PaleMoon browser. Seems to work fairly well with lower resource systems. It was originally forked from Firefox 4.0, and has been maintained as a separate release since then.
45 • @30 / @33 (by Teresa e Junior on 2019-10-29 00:07:15 GMT from Brazil)
@30
> "Fortunately they don't have to do it all by themselves since they are downstream from Debian, and Debian already maintains all the 32 bit packages."
Not true, many many packages on Ubuntu are repackaged or don't exist at all on Debian.
@33
> IS there a work around or a distro that has the slowdown of XFCE fixed?
Never seen that at all, not even people complaining about that. Maybe your setup is unique.
46 • The best browser, EVER (by Stefan on 2019-10-29 01:46:45 GMT from Brazil)
@42:
Firefox running like a snail? Try the wonderful OTTER BROWSER. It's time to know this incredibly efficient and fully configurable Internet software. Much better than Pale Moon!
47 • @45 Debian 32-bit packages (by Andy Prough on 2019-10-29 02:13:25 GMT from United States)
> "Not true, many many packages on Ubuntu are repackaged or don't exist at all on Debian."
Some, but Debian does have the vast majority of the packages. MX and antiX handle it without a problem, and those are distros with far fewer developer resources than Ubuntu. Even Trisquel, which is based on Ubuntu, still packages a 32-bit version.
48 • Xubuntu (by Teresa e Junior on 2019-10-29 02:40:26 GMT from Brazil)
@47 Ubuntu developers != Xubuntu developers. Xubuntu has a small team, probably not bigger than MX Linux. And of course MX handles 32 bits packages without a problem, it is based on Debian...
49 • AVOID OTTER BROWSER -- WORST BROWSER EVER (by whoKnows on 2019-10-29 07:09:41 GMT from United Kingdom)
"I tested the 32-bit version of the browser under Windows 7. Retrieving web pages works, but much slower than for example Chrome or Firefox. Some limitations like YouTube playback etc."
https://borncity.com/win/2019/01/07/otter-browser-1-0-0-1/
"Unfortunately that works more bad than right. In the test, the "Otter Browser" went on pages with many pictures, but also on YouTube videos, relatively quickly in the knee. Much Javascript and HTML5 pages partly overwhelm the browser."
https://www.chip.de/downloads/Otter-Browser_82129132.html
50 • MX and Devuan (XFCE) (by Luxie Tuxie on 2019-10-29 08:07:50 GMT from Canada)
MX and Devuan (XFCE -xDebian), both work absolutely fine at least for myself.
51 • OTTER Browser (by Juitse on 2019-10-29 08:21:56 GMT from United States)
@49 Why worst?? This are the closing words of a review: "Otter Browser final is a stable modern browser with lots of integrated features and options. Is it ready for prime time? It is certainly possible to use the browser as the main driver but most users will probably use it as a secondary browser for the time being." (https://www.ghacks.net/2019/01/04/otter-web-browser-final-released/)
Otter is probably not the best browser but certainly not the worst. All web browsers use a lot of RAM because there is a lot of crap on the net. I use Firefox 70 as my primary browser on a 10 years old Duo Core 4GB RAM machine and it is working fine.
52 • Latest Chromium browser, if you need (by OstroL on 2019-10-29 09:17:33 GMT from Poland)
If you are interested in using the newest Chromium (without snap) try https://download-chromium.appspot.com. It is trunk, or sort of rolling. All you have to do is unarchive the file to your username folder and click on the chrome-wrapper file. If Nautilus wont allow running executive files, go to nautilus settings and enable run exe files. You won't have problems of running such files in Thunar or Dolphin.
You can change contents of your chromium folder every week or so, if you want the newest all the time. I'm using this "trunk" Chromium in many Linuxes (even in Clear Linux, Fedora Rawhide) and Windows 10. Never had a problem yet. In Windows 10, you don't need any extra codecs, but in Linuxes, you might need a few.
53 • Collection of software (by Tim on 2019-10-29 09:28:42 GMT from United States)
@47
The current release of Trisquel is based on Ubuntu 16.04, which Cannonical continues to support a 32 bit version of.
On a different note, I thought it interesting that Xubuntu 19.10 worked perfectly for the reviewer but Ubuntu and several other spins had serious problems. I think this underscores the importance of not thinking of any release as part of one's identity or philosophy but rather a collection of software that comes with an intent to support and put in a coherent package. For years, I've used the Debian family, which might mean Debian, Ubuntu MATE, Ubuntu, Mint, or LMDE. Pick which version of the apps you need, find a release that supports them, and keep trying different ones on your various hardware until each has something that works properly. Right now Debian Buster is my favorite on most hardware but I'm totally willing to admit that could be the software I choose and the hardware I have.
54 • ZFS on... off... root, doesn't matter, fantastic addition (by Will on 2019-10-29 13:39:09 GMT from United States)
Finally, ZFS is being added to the distros. I have been hanging onto my FreeBSD server for years, just because of its support for ZFS. When Ubuntu announce experimental support for ZFS on root, I immediately gave it a shot and other than a hiccup with mismatched capabilities, I was able to migrate in a few hours and it's been running smoothly ever since. Snapshots, ssh backups, painless import and export of media across instances. Being able to finally ditch useless, last era, FSes - makes we wanna weep for joy - well, maybe not, but it's pretty awesome. And for folks who are used to dealing with filesystems who haven't used ZFS before, you are in for a real treat. Try it, you'll like it.
55 • Browser options. (by Friar Tux on 2019-10-29 13:46:47 GMT from Canada)
I've been a fan of Firefox for years. I have noticed, lately, that the fox is getting a bit fat and slow. I've tried a few other browsers (Chrome, Chromium, Opera, Vivaldi, Pale Moon, Seamonkey) but wasn't happy with what I found. Then I tried Brave Browser. Love it. It took a few days of getting used to, but I like what it does and how it works. It comes in various package formats (I used the *.deb format) so it can be installed on any platform/distro.
56 • MX Linux 19 (by Bob on 2019-10-29 15:01:38 GMT from United States)
Nice to see MX Linux 19 released... hope they fixed the video card bug...
57 • Yeow...ouch....zfs.... (by tom joad on 2019-10-29 15:12:35 GMT from Switzerland)
Silly me.
I thought I would give ZFS a go to see what the fuss was about. So I fired up a brand new Ubuntu Mate to do the ZFS.
Wrong. I made mistake in not changing the drive in the partition screen to install the new OS. Operator error. I mistakenly installed MATE on my boot drive. Bad deal.
Word to the wise...Focus doing the install and make very sure you have back ups of everything...just in case. And DO NOT put ZFS on the boot drive!
58 • Firefox and Chrome (by Luxie Tuxie on 2019-10-29 16:58:29 GMT from Canada)
@ #55
"I've been a fan of Firefox for years. I have noticed, lately, that the fox is getting a bit fat and slow. "
It is equivalent to keep another sub-operating system(s) let's a kitten, running within the main operating system. Before you watch a *flix stream on Chrome, everybody is watching you on the tube. And, Firefox is heavy funded.
59 • Distro brewer(s) should charge (by Luxie Tuxie on 2019-10-29 17:10:08 GMT from Canada)
OpenSource Distro brewer(s) should charge per copy to Firefox and Chrome to be included in the distro(s). As in, Firefox is getting paid pay-per-click and pay-per-month to remove ads on youtube videos.
60 • Xfce... more (by TheTKS on 2019-10-29 19:50:30 GMT from Canada)
@40 I should clarify something.
Screen freezes (and a Catfish problem) only happened to me on Xfce after my update to 4.14 at the same time as my update to OpenBSD to 6.6.
Xfce documentation actually does suggest trying compositor off or different vblank options if certain problems show up after the update.
The simple fix to my screen freezes came down to a window manager setting change suggested in the Xfce docs - compositor off - and everything else I’ve run on OpenBSD 6.6 is working.
So rather than a “distro specific” problem, this seems to me some combination of default settings of new versions of the DE and the OS, and my specific (unchanged) hardware. And maybe nothing to do with the OS.
—-
Aside from this problem, I’ve seen good performance over the past 3 years from Xfce 4.12 and 4.14 with no slowing, over different OS’s and versions and hardware: two boxes and a Raspberry Pi, via Xubuntu 16.04 and 18.04, Slackware 14.2 and SlackwareARM -current, and OpenBSD from 6.2 & 6.3 in VMs and 6.4 through 6.6 dedicated installations on the boxes.
So aside from spending more time than I expected to fix a problem (learning about Xorg, Xfce and configurations in the process), I’m a happy Xfce user.
TKS
61 • Xubuntu's Changing Goals (by Edwin K. Torp on 2019-10-29 20:23:45 GMT from United States)
Xubuntu used to be about being 'lightweight' but then more and more people began drifting toward Xfce-- not because it was lightweight, but because it was not Gnome. It is for this reason that Xubuntu is now simply targeted at sane people and it is due to Xfce's attachment to Gtk that it, similar to LXQt, is now considered 'midweight' in the grand scheme of desktops.
I am a long time Xfce and Xubuntu user but finally doing away with the final vestiges of Ubuntu around here. (Using Xfce less too but that's the way things go) By 2020 I should be 100% rid of systemd (and pulseaudio) Farewell Xubuntu-- you were the all-around best *ubuntu.
F*%k Snaps
62 • Mystery of Indirect Dependancies. (by Luxie Tuxie on 2019-10-29 21:02:42 GMT from Canada)
Every single linux distro we try comes with jam-packed mysteries.
Hence, the mysteries of indirect-dependencies still remain unresolved.
63 • Would gladly use ZFS in the future (by Dxvid on 2019-10-29 22:34:14 GMT from Sweden)
I would gladly start using ZFS if it becomes standard on Linux servers and some big distro makes sure it's 100% stable together with each released kernel and patch. Then I will trust it to be stable enough. Each file system has a place to fill, if there was one file system that was perfect there wouldn't exist so many. ZFS has a role to play for sure, but until major distros make sure it's tested and implemented correctly I will primarily use the more common file system like XFS, EXT4 and BTRFS which have worked fine for me for years. ZFS has great features in theory, so I will gladly start using it in the future.
One thing that is important to know is that more advanced file systems will use more resources, ZFS and BTRFS both have very advanced functionality and will slightly increase CPU usage on normal machines, but if a machine does heavy file operations often, CPU usage can be considerably higher at times with both ZFS and BTRFS, and with ZFS RAM usage can get considerably higher.
Couldn't find perfect article about this but but the debian wiki explains a little about this here:
https://wiki.debian.org/Btrfs#Maintenance
If high performance and low usage of resources is more important than tons of advanced features like snapshots and CRC for files, then I would recommend people to use XFS. If the data is important to you or your workplace I recommend BTRFS which is well implemented on SUSE/OpenSUSE, or ZFS which is well implemented on FreeBSD, but I wouldn't use those file systems on distros who halfhearted kind of support them but not entirely, or at least read though all the limitations and recommendations for that distro. The important is to use the right file system for the right purpose and to dimension the machine for the advanced file systems if you use them on heavy load machines.
Using BTRFS on root is like coming to heaven if you've only used EXT4 before, "snapper rollback" is great if a package update created problems for you config or if NVIDIA publishes buggy proprietary drivers, looking at the diff if you made some configuration errors is helpful, having snapshots created every time you risk making mistakes is great so that you can easily revert them. I can imagine ZFS on root can be a similar experience if implemented correctly by the distro. I haven't used FreeBSD in production as I'm a Linux fan, but it's interesting to try it out for fun. Linux makes competitors being forced to cooperate for the greater good, which I like.
64 • Talking more about dependancies (by Luxie Tuxie on 2019-10-29 23:06:09 GMT from Canada)
XFCE or any other DE must be considered as a AUI - Application(s) User's Interface.
As there are other system components performing exactly same task
Why would XFCE core component xfwn should depend on DNS resolving library??? This is just only one out of many thousands, and the addition plug-in(s) for say text-editor(s) or any.
There are plethora of irrelevant - non-required dependencies mysteries with every single package.
65 • Dependancies (by Luxie Tuxie on 2019-10-29 23:18:09 GMT from Canada)
XFCE core gtk-3.0 engine depends on GLIB-2 GNOME library which in turn dependans on networking, dependencies marry-GO -round is very complex.
66 • Advising browsers based on Chrome/Chromium (bad idea!)... (by Marc V. on 2019-10-30 11:57:04 GMT from Netherlands)
@42:
Otter Browser? Well, another browser based on Chromium. The 10.643th variant on what is, in the end, Google. Well, keep on advising browsers based on Chrome/Chromium, and the whole internet is optimised for Google and the Blink engine. Just like it was when Internet Explorer took over the world wide web back in the early 2000's.
We should all support Firefox, as this is the only browser of importance that is NOT Chrome/Chromium based, and which don't have the Blink engine.
Advising browsers which are all forks and copies of Chromium/Chrome is a really BAD idea.
I still wonder why people, especially Linux people, abandoned Firefox in favor of a data slurping browser made and/or owned by Google. I've been using Firefox since day one (2004), and I was always very content with it. I really don't care if another browser is 0,00001 second faster in loading pages. It's the idea behind why you should use and support it. It's a matter of principle, and loading pages a fraction of a second faster is very trivial.
Even the open source enthousiastics give too much support on Google, browsers based on their product and their practices concerning privacy. If this continues like that, Google will be the only force on internet.
Please stop advising browsers based on Chrome/Chromium. Basically you advice the demise of Firefox in the end. A very bad and unwanted situation...
67 • @66 Marc V. (by dragonmouth on 2019-10-30 13:02:17 GMT from United States)
"I still wonder why people, especially Linux people, abandoned Firefox in favor of a data slurping browser made and/or owned by Google."
For 2 basic reasons.
1) Convenience. Google offers a bunch of other apps that are compatible with each other and the browser. FF does not. It is only a browser.
2) Tech press. It seems like every tech writer and pundit is of the opinion that Chrome/Chromium are The Greatest Thing Since Sliced Bread. They all sound like they were on Google payroll. These are the same people that make it sound like Ubuntu is the only Linux distro in existence.
"a data slurping browser made and/or owned by Google"
Have you looked into FF lately? FF is using Google's Safe Browsing which means that each site you visit is checked against a Google database and your visit to the site is recorded by Google. Go into 'about:config' and type in 'Google' on the search line. You will be surprised at how many times FF access Google's servers.
68 • @67 - Google links on Firefox (by Andy Prough on 2019-10-30 15:23:48 GMT from United States)
> "Have you looked into FF lately? FF is using Google's Safe Browsing which means that each site you visit is checked against a Google database and your visit to the site is recorded by Google. Go into 'about:config' and type in 'Google' on the search line. You will be surprised at how many times FF access Google's servers."
You can turn off safe browsing in preferences, so that shouldn't be a problem. If you want a Firefox-derivative browser that doesn't have those links by default you can use palemoon.
69 • Ubuntu and 32 Bit death (by Herol on 2019-10-30 16:11:16 GMT from Germany)
Having a number of older computers in daily usage which need 32 Bit software one of my last havens is AntiX, I moved thinking maybe I would miss a lot of convenience or find transition difficult.
My experience has been so good that I am in process of moving all our systems to AntiX and Ice WM which I had to setup once to my liking on 32 bit, a second time for 64 each time using the brilliant remaster tool to create a standard installation base.
Thanks Ubuntu, I have learnt that yet again another distro is miles ahead,
without the news about dropping 32 bit support I might have still been putting up with slow running, higher memory usage and dependency hell.
My oldest Pentium box is no longer feeling ancient and wheezy. Even running Libreoffice and browsing with Palemoon . I do have ad blocking hosts file and run from SSD which makes a massive difference.
70 • Web Browsers (by Luxie Tuxie on 2019-10-30 18:44:07 GMT from Canada)
@ #66, 67 and 68
Distro Brewers like MX, PCLOS, ANTIX and SLACKWARE put their time, efforts and resources (which in fact are limited) to brew a usable distro, Here on Jesse and his team work hard to keep this site up-to-date. And at the end, result is some else is collecting the data, selling the data, getting paid per click, and gets load full of money.
I would still suggest Firefox, Chrome or any web browser must be dropped out from distro unless and until Web Browser pay Distro Brewers per copy. If they gets full loads of money (Firefox and Gogole) they have to give-out to distro brewers per copy. All browser package must be available in their repo(s). Distro users must have a browser in the repo per their choice per say Firefox, Chrome, Otter, Palemoon, Maxthon etc.
By the way, palemoon is running chrome engine on back-end.
71 • @68: (by dragonmouth on 2019-10-30 18:45:30 GMT from United States)
Using Preferences to turn off Safe Browsing does not do a complete Job. One needs to go into 'about:config' and change some keys to totally turn off Safe Browsing.
I do use PaleMoon.
72 • Google links on Firefox (by Luxie Tuxie on 2019-10-30 18:56:23 GMT from Canada)
@ #67 and 68
Google successfully destroyed all independently developed web browsers having their own and unique engine. Others are forced to switch their engine to Chrome.
I am correcting your lines:
In a firefox, type about:config and hit enter in the browsing window, Go into 'about:config' and type in 'Google' on the search line. You will be surprised at how many times FF access Google's servers.
These lines justify the claim that Firefox is also well-funded.
73 • @70 - Palemoon (by Andy Prough on 2019-10-30 19:22:25 GMT from United States)
> "By the way, palemoon is running chrome engine on back-end."
Palemoon is not running a chrome engine - it uses its own fork of Mozilla's gecko engine, called Goanna.
74 • @73, Firefox funding (by Angel on 2019-10-31 10:41:58 GMT from Philippines)
If Firefox offers Google search as default, that is a source of funding. The lines in about:config are accessing Google services such as safe browsing, which are available to any browser developer at no charge. Nothing to do with funding.
75 • Chrome/Chromium vs. Firefox (by David on 2019-10-31 17:35:14 GMT from United States)
Browse at your own risk, whichever browser you choose to use -
"Review: Google Chrome has become surveillance software. It’s time to switch.
Our latest privacy experiment found Chrome ushered more than 11,000 tracker cookies into our browser — in a single week. Here’s why Firefox is better."
https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/06/21/google-chrome-has-become-surveillance-software-its-time-to-switch/
https://themindunleashed.com/2019/06/google-chrome-spy-software.html
https://news.slashdot.org/story/19/06/21/1922233/chrome-has-become-surveillance-software-its-time-to-switch
"Google Chrome API changes may disable most ad blockers"
The company says the changes are about page speed, security and user privacy; critics are more cynical about Google's motives."
https://martechtoday.com/google-chrome-api-changes-may-disable-most-ad-blockers-229971
JMHO
76 • XFCE (by willnay98 on 2019-10-31 19:30:59 GMT from United States)
I don't understand why they can't resolve screen tearing out of the box and add some modern features to Thunar.
77 • @75 Re: Chrome (by Rev_Don on 2019-10-31 21:25:26 GMT from United States)
"Google Chrome API changes may disable most ad blockers"
The company says the changes are about page speed, security and user privacy; critics are more cynical about Google's motives."
https://martechtoday.com/google-chrome-api-changes-may-disable-most-ad-blockers-229971 "
This is old and outdated by about 10 months. Google backtracked on disabling Ad Blockers MONTHS ago.
78 • Appreciation For Updated Information (by David on 2019-10-31 23:51:41 GMT from United States)
@77
Thanks for your update.
I found these more current links to Google's limited decision to backtrack on its plan -
"....While Google hasn't completely backtracked from its plans, it has made concessions amidst public outcry and legal threats."
"
https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/02/17/google-backtracks-on-chrome-ad-blocker-changes-after-public-outcry-and-legal-threats/
"Google partially backtracks on Chrome changes that would break ad blockers"
Benchmarks showed that most ad blockers don't make network requests much slower.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/02/google-partially-backtracks-on-chrome-changes-that-would-break-ad-blockers/
It's good to know that Google is under surveillance & scrutiny by testing & standards organizations.
JMHO
79 • @75 (by Teresa e Junior on 2019-11-01 14:56:37 GMT from Brazil)
@75
Chrome is not inserting any cookies into web pages, these are just misconceptions. What is happening here is that newer versions of Firefox try to block third-party tracking by default, which has always been possible with extensions in any browsers. It's not their fault at all, blame the websites.
80 • Chrome (by Andy Prough on 2019-11-01 15:41:02 GMT from United States)
Even if you need to use a chrome-based browser, there's ungoogled-chromium, Iridium, Brave browser, and maybe more that I'm not thinking of that attempt to avoid Chrome's privacy issues and attempt to make the chromium base more secure.
Number of Comments: 80
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NordisKnoppix
NordisKnoppix was a version of Klaus Knopper's Knoppix, supporting Nordic and Baltic languages, and maintained by Conrad Newton. Presently, the supported languages include Danish, Estonian, Finnish, Faroese, Icelandic, Latvian, Lithuanian, Northern sami, Norwegian bokmål, Norwegian nynorsk, Swedish and US English, to the extent that Debian packages for these languages are available, and that they fit on the CD. Aside from the Nordic/Baltic language components, NordisKnoppix was the same as standard Knoppix.
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