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1 • Wayland (by mcellius on 2019-09-16 00:56:12 GMT from United States)
Unfortunately, not all apps run on Wayland yet. For example, gparted won't run on my system (Ubuntu 19.04 - the same with earlier versions) when running Wayland. I'd prefer to use Wayland because in general it feels that most things run a little faster on it, but until more things run on Wayland I'll stick with X-org. (Yes, more and more programs are running on Wayland all the time, but there are still key ones that do not.)
2 • wayland dealbreaker (by linuxista on 2019-09-16 02:56:26 GMT from United States)
Gnome on wayland is somewhat crashy, whereas Gnome on Xorg is rock solid. In any case, until wayland allows reassigning mouse buttons with libinput, I'm not even interested in trying.
3 • wayland error (by pierdolony on 2019-09-16 03:04:07 GMT from United States)
i open a terminal, "su - root", try to run gui app (ex: some filemanager) and it fails with error: "Cannot open display:"
anyone know why?
tried it on several distros running wayland, so its not distro specific
4 • @3: wayland error (by Titus_Groan on 2019-09-16 04:26:00 GMT from New Zealand)
likely the way that those "several distros" have set up their Wayland session.
Mageia is certainly able to run, for example: Dolphin, as root.
$ su - root password: ******** # dolphin
5 • Wayland @1 (by pengxiun on 2019-09-16 04:43:15 GMT from New Zealand)
applications that require root privileges under wayland should request administrator / root password after you invoke them (from launcher or terminal command). If they do not, then a: raise a bug for your distribution, b: change to a distribution that does.
6 • No Wayland - I use Nvidia (by morgan cox on 2019-09-16 09:44:06 GMT from United Kingdom)
As a Nvidia user my understanding is that Wayland in KDE with Nvidia is not usable at present.
Would like to start playing with it soon .
7 • X ...or Wayland (by OstroL on 2019-09-16 10:36:48 GMT from Poland)
They say old is gold, so still it is X. Wayland doesn't have many followers, except one company, now sold to IBM. And, IBM has an old fashioned bureaucratic thinking. Doesn't bring in money, would go. Gnome is pretty buggy too, and with Wayland...well...
8 • X.Org (by Chris on 2019-09-16 12:29:36 GMT from United States)
It's X.Org for me, because I run Nvidia proprietary graphics. Besides, I've been running Linux with X.Org for 10 years and, if it ain't broke, and all that.
9 • X (by Tim on 2019-09-16 13:55:36 GMT from United States)
I'm still with X, for all the listed reasons Ostro and Chris said. I know it and it works great. I'll change when someone gives me as the end user a reason to.
10 • Ubuntu Wayland (by vern on 2019-09-16 15:05:53 GMT from United States)
Wayland on Ubuntu works flawlessly. I have never had an issue.
11 • Wayland compatibility (by Juan on 2019-09-16 18:39:00 GMT from Panama)
I'm on Xorg because Wayland can't support neither the Mac menu funtionality nor the compositor in my desktop environment (appmenu and compiz). Until those 2 become supported Wayland won't be usable for me.
12 • Wayland doesn't meet my needs (by Chris on 2019-09-17 02:28:18 GMT from United States)
Wayland on Fedora 30 is good enough now that I can use it for a while without noticing it's not Xorg, but only if I'm not doing much. If I try to do real work on it, I quickly trip over a bunch of little things that might be tolerable individually but which together are pretty annoying.
It starts with the fact that you can't remap the mouse buttons (I like the middle button to open menus and the right to paste and (in file managers) stand in for a double-click. For this, Wayland is doubly broken: Even in Fedora, which tries to simulate it, the time-saving select-and-click copy-paste doesn't work consistently. And remapping mouse buttons doesn't, either.
Likewise for various window manager features (in Gnome, at least; I hear it's worse on KDE).
Wayland's GUI performance seems about the same as Xorg's on my Intel based system.
13 • Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) (by nothanks on 2019-09-17 07:29:52 GMT from France)
Usually, in my opinion, the Polls ends up down in the drain. Is that because the users are Grinches? Or because the devs chose to go against the flow?
14 • X.org vs Wayland (by Simon Plaistowe on 2019-09-17 08:25:59 GMT from New Zealand)
X.org all the way until such time as Wayland becomes mature enough to compete. Then I'll re-evaluate.
15 • Still in X11 land (by SuperOscar on 2019-09-17 12:18:17 GMT from Finland)
I recently bought a Radeon graphics card to replace my old Nvidia card so that I could at least try out Wayland sessions (in openSUSE Leap with KDE Plasma). No luck. After a couple of seconds, Wayland sessions just quietly log me out without even an error message.
This seems to be the current situation pretty much elsewhere, too. Sometimes Wayland might survive long enough for the user get annoyed with a bug or “feature”, but most often it just crashes.
16 • Wayland or Whyland? (by Nasoj on 2019-09-17 14:55:12 GMT from Mexico)
In my brief and traumatic experiences using Whyland, the results have always been predictably the same, either a) the application crashes such as when needing to SU and app like Gedit and it just refuses to open or b) the performance is lackluster and choppy on my older warhorse of a laptop. Wayland may be an improvement over Gnome, but that theoretical improvement is useless unless it translates into the real world, which still, it does not. So Wayland in my books is still Whyland until further evidence to the contrary.
17 • No Way Land (by Ark on 2019-09-18 09:16:13 GMT from France)
It's impossible to use wayland in a normal enterprise environment. Problems for remote desktop apps (like Teamviewer), problems with sudo apps (like Gparted) and just overall other minor problems that never happens in x.org. And as someone who's just interested in stability, what does wayland bring onto the table for that ? Nothing yet.
18 • Wayland.. (by OstroL on 2019-09-18 09:44:29 GMT from Poland)
Thoughts born in one person's mind cannot be moved to another person's mind. Most thoughts can be explained by word (or by code as in Linux), but not everything. Even though some people say, that anyone can be replaced, it cannot be done. The person goes, the thoughts also go. the others might continue, but the result is not the same. One example, Budgie desktop and Solus. Budgie is still stuck at 10.5, since the main developer left with his thoughts.
Same with Wayland, I suppose.
19 • Wayland (by Jordan on 2019-09-18 14:54:11 GMT from United States)
What will new users of Linux, or users who just don't care about cli etc, notice about a distro with Wayland as opposed to x.org etc? What's are the differences that the casual escapee from Windows will experience?
20 • Wayland Development (by M.Z. on 2019-09-18 19:53:08 GMT from United States)
@16 "Wayland may be an improvement over Gnome..."
Maybe you just miss typed something there, but no Wayland was never meant to be a replacement for any one Desktop Environment, it lets all the DEs draw their various GUI programs in a better way. Gnome is just out front in implementing it, though I think they would be better off doing a lot of other things related to their basic DE design first, if they wanted an improvement in Gnome.
@19 "What will new users of Linux,... notice about a distro with Wayland as opposed to x.org etc?"
Wayland development began as a response to the problems some folks noticed while working on the guts of the old X11 system. To my understanding they took the guts of the way X11 was being used, (which has to do with making Qt & Gtk draw most things), and turned it into a complete redesign that is supposed to simpler and more secure, while also being more reliable & accurate.
I think the only thing a user might notice, if they were observant, is that things should be crisper, faster, and more accurate once Wayland is working properly. It's still early days for Wayland, so things are probably not there yet, but it's in a state where it is starting to be used more & should see more rapid improvements.
Sadly the Linux user base can be both fickle & obstinate at once, all while being very opinionated at early release software. Sure plenty of us can be fickle distro hoppers that seek out the new & interesting, but just as many like to complain loudly about early software not working right. We even complain about the fact that things are going to change & we make sure to put it in a way that can discourage the devs who gifted us with this free & open software. I don't think we should be threatened by an an open, modifiable path to improvement that can be used in many projects.
I'm all X11 for now & I'm glad the option to stay that way will be around for some time to come, but I'm glad Wayland is there & I look forward to seeing how it progresses.
21 • @ 20 (by OstroL on 2019-09-18 20:56:33 GMT from Poland)
"I think the only thing a user might notice, if they were observant, is that things should be crisper, faster, and more accurate once Wayland is working properly. It's still early days for Wayland, so things are probably not there yet, but it's in a state where it is starting to be used more & should see more rapid improvements."
10 years is quite enough these days to come out with a highly advanced system. For example Android.
The problem with Wayland is "the early days" had never stopped being that way. And, the original thought maker had gone, doing something else. People, who think of something, come back after a while, even to the company that threw you away. Example Steve Jobs and iPod, iPad, iPhone.
People, who think the project won't go forward, goes away, leaving it and start something. Example, Budgie DE and Solus. The thought maker went away, and now trying to create games. Budgie DE was to become 11, but never grew from 10.5. The thought maker started many projects, and dropped them half way.
It is the same with Wayland!
22 • Discord on Wayland (by Michael on 2019-09-19 09:24:21 GMT from United States)
I found that when using discord on wayland I cannot use global hotkeys like I do on Xorg. I read it was designed this way for security (if I remember correctly). Bit too secure for my liking!
23 • Wayland or Whyland? Addendum (by Nasoj on 2019-09-20 15:57:10 GMT from Mexico)
@M.Z yes it was a typo. What I wrote was, "Wayland may be an improvement over Gnome..." however what I meant to write was; Wayland Gnome may be an improvement over Xorg Gnome.
On a sidenote, can the editor write or publish an article on how to optimize memory and processes in Gnome? I want to run a Gnome desktop but with only the bare minimal processes necessary so as to consume the least memory and cpu usage as possible. I'm sure other readers would like to know how to put Gnome on a diet also.
24 • Re: Wayland Development (by M.Z. on 2019-09-20 23:41:49 GMT from United States)
@21 "The problem with Wayland is "the early days" had never stopped being that way."
Cynicism & prognostication are both fairly easy to come by, but it seems to me that Red Hat Enterprise Linux 8 including Wayland by default just created a massive incentive for the biggest Linux support company in the world to make sure Wayland works. Red Hat has thousands of employees, $ billions in assets, and release & QA processes that major businesses the world over seem to approve of.
I suppose that RHEL 8 could get treated like Windows Vista by businesses if there are enough serious issues; however, in the long run 'Wayland will never work' seems like a far worse prediction than 'rockets will never be cost effective to reuse' & there were some very serious experts predicting that not too many years ago.
Number of Comments: 24
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• Issue 1095 (2024-11-04): Fedora 41 Kinoite, transferring applications between computers, openSUSE Tumbleweed receives multiple upgrades, Ubuntu testing compiler optimizations, Mint partners with Framework |
• Issue 1094 (2024-10-28): DebLight OS 1, backing up crontab, AlmaLinux introduces Litten branch, openSUSE unveils refreshed look, Ubuntu turns 20 |
• Issue 1093 (2024-10-21): Kubuntu 24.10, atomic vs immutable distributions, Debian upgrading Perl packages, UBports adding VoLTE support, Android to gain native GNU/Linux application support |
• Issue 1092 (2024-10-14): FunOS 24.04.1, a home directory inside a file, work starts of openSUSE Leap 16.0, improvements in Haiku, KDE neon upgrades its base |
• Issue 1091 (2024-10-07): Redox OS 0.9.0, Unified package management vs universal package formats, Redox begins RISC-V port, Mint polishes interface, Qubes certifies new laptop |
• Issue 1090 (2024-09-30): Rhino Linux 2024.2, commercial distros with alternative desktops, Valve seeks to improve Wayland performance, HardenedBSD parterns with Protectli, Tails merges with Tor Project, Quantum Leap partners with the FreeBSD Foundation |
• Issue 1089 (2024-09-23): Expirion 6.0, openKylin 2.0, managing configuration files, the future of Linux development, fixing bugs in Haiku, Slackware packages dracut |
• Issue 1088 (2024-09-16): PorteuX 1.6, migrating from Windows 10 to which Linux distro, making NetBSD immutable, AlmaLinux offers hardware certification, Mint updates old APT tools |
• Issue 1087 (2024-09-09): COSMIC desktop, running cron jobs at variable times, UBports highlights new apps, HardenedBSD offers work around for FreeBSD change, Debian considers how to cull old packages, systemd ported to musl |
• Issue 1086 (2024-09-02): Vanilla OS 2, command line tips for simple tasks, FreeBSD receives investment from STF, openSUSE Tumbleweed update can break network connections, Debian refreshes media |
• Issue 1085 (2024-08-26): Nobara 40, OpenMandriva 24.07 "ROME", distros which include source code, FreeBSD publishes quarterly report, Microsoft updates breaks Linux in dual-boot environments |
• Issue 1084 (2024-08-19): Liya 2.0, dual boot with encryption, Haiku introduces performance improvements, Gentoo dropping IA-64, Redcore merges major upgrade |
• Issue 1083 (2024-08-12): TrueNAS 24.04.2 "SCALE", Linux distros for smartphones, Redox OS introduces web server, PipeWire exposes battery drain on Linux, Canonical updates kernel version policy |
• Issue 1082 (2024-08-05): Linux Mint 22, taking snapshots of UFS on FreeBSD, openSUSE updates Tumbleweed and Aeon, Debian creates Tiny QA Tasks, Manjaro testing immutable images |
• Issue 1081 (2024-07-29): SysLinuxOS 12.4, OpenBSD gain hardware acceleration, Slackware changes kernel naming, Mint publishes upgrade instructions |
• Issue 1080 (2024-07-22): Running GNU/Linux on Android with Andronix, protecting network services, Solus dropping AppArmor and Snap, openSUSE Aeon Desktop gaining full disk encryption, SUSE asks openSUSE to change its branding |
• Issue 1079 (2024-07-15): Ubuntu Core 24, hiding files on Linux, Fedora dropping X11 packages on Workstation, Red Hat phasing out GRUB, new OpenSSH vulnerability, FreeBSD speeds up release cycle, UBports testing new first-run wizard |
• Issue 1078 (2024-07-08): Changing init software, server machines running desktop environments, OpenSSH vulnerability patched, Peppermint launches new edition, HardenedBSD updates ports |
• Issue 1077 (2024-07-01): The Unity and Lomiri interfaces, different distros for different tasks, Ubuntu plans to run Wayland on NVIDIA cards, openSUSE updates Leap Micro, Debian releases refreshed media, UBports gaining contact synchronisation, FreeDOS celebrates its 30th anniversary |
• Issue 1076 (2024-06-24): openSUSE 15.6, what makes Linux unique, SUSE Liberty Linux to support CentOS Linux 7, SLE receives 19 years of support, openSUSE testing Leap Micro edition |
• Issue 1075 (2024-06-17): Redox OS, X11 and Wayland on the BSDs, AlmaLinux releases Pi build, Canonical announces RISC-V laptop with Ubuntu, key changes in systemd |
• Issue 1074 (2024-06-10): Endless OS 6.0.0, distros with init diversity, Mint to filter unverified Flatpaks, Debian adds systemd-boot options, Redox adopts COSMIC desktop, OpenSSH gains new security features |
• Issue 1073 (2024-06-03): LXQt 2.0.0, an overview of Linux desktop environments, Canonical partners with Milk-V, openSUSE introduces new features in Aeon Desktop, Fedora mirrors see rise in traffic, Wayland adds OpenBSD support |
• Issue 1072 (2024-05-27): Manjaro 24.0, comparing init software, OpenBSD ports Plasma 6, Arch community debates mirror requirements, ThinOS to upgrade its FreeBSD core |
• Issue 1071 (2024-05-20): Archcraft 2024.04.06, common command line mistakes, ReactOS imports WINE improvements, Haiku makes adjusting themes easier, NetBSD takes a stand against code generated by chatbots |
• Issue 1070 (2024-05-13): Damn Small Linux 2024, hiding kernel messages during boot, Red Hat offers AI edition, new web browser for UBports, Fedora Asahi Remix 40 released, Qubes extends support for version 4.1 |
• Issue 1069 (2024-05-06): Ubuntu 24.04, installing packages in alternative locations, systemd creates sudo alternative, Mint encourages XApps collaboration, FreeBSD publishes quarterly update |
• Issue 1068 (2024-04-29): Fedora 40, transforming one distro into another, Debian elects new Project Leader, Red Hat extends support cycle, Emmabuntus adds accessibility features, Canonical's new security features |
• Issue 1067 (2024-04-22): LocalSend for transferring files, detecting supported CPU architecure levels, new visual design for APT, Fedora and openSUSE working on reproducible builds, LXQt released, AlmaLinux re-adds hardware support |
• Issue 1066 (2024-04-15): Fun projects to do with the Raspberry Pi and PinePhone, installing new software on fixed-release distributions, improving GNOME Terminal performance, Mint testing new repository mirrors, Gentoo becomes a Software In the Public Interest project |
• Issue 1065 (2024-04-08): Dr.Parted Live 24.03, answering questions about the xz exploit, Linux Mint to ship HWE kernel, AlmaLinux patches flaw ahead of upstream Red Hat, Calculate changes release model |
• Issue 1064 (2024-04-01): NixOS 23.11, the status of Hurd, liblzma compromised upstream, FreeBSD Foundation focuses on improving wireless networking, Ubuntu Pro offers 12 years of support |
• Issue 1063 (2024-03-25): Redcore Linux 2401, how slowly can a rolling release update, Debian starts new Project Leader election, Red Hat creating new NVIDIA driver, Snap store hit with more malware |
• Issue 1062 (2024-03-18): KDE neon 20240304, changing file permissions, Canonical turns 20, Pop!_OS creates new software centre, openSUSE packages Plasma 6 |
• Issue 1061 (2024-03-11): Using a PinePhone as a workstation, restarting background services on a schedule, NixBSD ports Nix to FreeBSD, Fedora packaging COSMIC, postmarketOS to adopt systemd, Linux Mint replacing HexChat |
• Issue 1060 (2024-03-04): AV Linux MX-23.1, bootstrapping a network connection, key OpenBSD features, Qubes certifies new hardware, LXQt and Plasma migrate to Qt 6 |
• Issue 1059 (2024-02-26): Warp Terminal, navigating manual pages, malware found in the Snap store, Red Hat considering CPU requirement update, UBports organizes ongoing work |
• Issue 1058 (2024-02-19): Drauger OS 7.6, how much disk space to allocate, System76 prepares to launch COSMIC desktop, UBports changes its version scheme, TrueNAS to offer faster deduplication |
• Issue 1057 (2024-02-12): Adelie Linux 1.0 Beta, rolling release vs fixed for a smoother experience, Debian working on 2038 bug, elementary OS to split applications from base system updates, Fedora announces Atomic Desktops |
• Issue 1056 (2024-02-05): wattOS R13, the various write speeds of ISO writing tools, DSL returns, Mint faces Wayland challenges, HardenedBSD blocks foreign USB devices, Gentoo publishes new repository, Linux distros patch glibc flaw |
• Issue 1055 (2024-01-29): CNIX OS 231204, distributions patching packages the most, Gentoo team presents ongoing work, UBports introduces connectivity and battery improvements, interview with Haiku developer |
• Issue 1054 (2024-01-22): Solus 4.5, comparing dd and cp when writing ISO files, openSUSE plans new major Leap version, XeroLinux shutting down, HardenedBSD changes its build schedule |
• Issue 1053 (2024-01-15): Linux AI voice assistants, some distributions running hotter than others, UBports talks about coming changes, Qubes certifies StarBook laptops, Asahi Linux improves energy savings |
• Issue 1052 (2024-01-08): OpenMandriva Lx 5.0, keeping shell commands running when theterminal closes, Mint upgrades Edge kernel, Vanilla OS plans big changes, Canonical working to make Snap more cross-platform |
• Issue 1051 (2024-01-01): Favourite distros of 2023, reloading shell settings, Asahi Linux releases Fedora remix, Gentoo offers binary packages, openSUSE provides full disk encryption |
• Issue 1050 (2023-12-18): rlxos 2023.11, renaming files and opening terminal windows in specific directories, TrueNAS publishes ZFS fixes, Debian publishes delayed install media, Haiku polishes desktop experience |
• Issue 1049 (2023-12-11): Lernstick 12, alternatives to WINE, openSUSE updates its branding, Mint unveils new features, Lubuntu team plans for 24.04 |
• Issue 1048 (2023-12-04): openSUSE MicroOS, the transition from X11 to Wayland, Red Hat phasing out X11 packages, UBports making mobile development easier |
• Issue 1047 (2023-11-27): GhostBSD 23.10.1, Why Linux uses swap when memory is free, Ubuntu Budgie may benefit from Wayland work in Xfce, early issues with FreeBSD 14.0 |
• Issue 1046 (2023-11-20): Slackel 7.7 "Openbox", restricting CPU usage, Haiku improves font handling and software centre performance, Canonical launches MicroCloud |
• Issue 1045 (2023-11-13): Fedora 39, how to trust software packages, ReactOS booting with UEFI, elementary OS plans to default to Wayland, Mir gaining ability to split work across video cards |
• Issue 1044 (2023-11-06): Porteus 5.01, disabling IPv6, applications unique to a Linux distro, Linux merges bcachefs, OpenELA makes source packages available |
• Issue 1043 (2023-10-30): Murena Two with privacy switches, where old files go when packages are updated, UBports on Volla phones, Mint testing Cinnamon on Wayland, Peppermint releases ARM build |
• Issue 1042 (2023-10-23): Ubuntu Cinnamon compared with Linux Mint, extending battery life on Linux, Debian resumes /usr merge, Canonical publishes fixed install media |
• Issue 1041 (2023-10-16): FydeOS 17.0, Dr.Parted 23.09, changing UIDs, Fedora partners with Slimbook, GNOME phasing out X11 sessions, Ubuntu revokes 23.10 install media |
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Finnix
Finnix is a small, self-contained, bootable Linux CD distribution for system administrators, based on Debian. It can be used to mount and manipulate hard drives and partitions, monitor networks, rebuild boot records, install other operating systems, and much more.
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