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1 • Wayland (by mcellius on 2019-09-16 00:56:12 GMT from United States) |
Unfortunately, not all apps run on Wayland yet. For example, gparted won't run on my system (Ubuntu 19.04 - the same with earlier versions) when running Wayland. I'd prefer to use Wayland because in general it feels that most things run a little faster on it, but until more things run on Wayland I'll stick with X-org. (Yes, more and more programs are running on Wayland all the time, but there are still key ones that do not.)
2 • wayland dealbreaker (by linuxista on 2019-09-16 02:56:26 GMT from United States)
Gnome on wayland is somewhat crashy, whereas Gnome on Xorg is rock solid. In any case, until wayland allows reassigning mouse buttons with libinput, I'm not even interested in trying.
3 • wayland error (by pierdolony on 2019-09-16 03:04:07 GMT from United States)
i open a terminal, "su - root", try to run gui app (ex: some filemanager) and it fails with error: "Cannot open display:"
anyone know why?
tried it on several distros running wayland, so its not distro specific
4 • @3: wayland error (by Titus_Groan on 2019-09-16 04:26:00 GMT from New Zealand)
likely the way that those "several distros" have set up their Wayland session.
Mageia is certainly able to run, for example: Dolphin, as root.
$ su -
root password: ********
5 • Wayland @1 (by pengxiun on 2019-09-16 04:43:15 GMT from New Zealand)
applications that require root privileges under wayland should request administrator / root password after you invoke them (from launcher or terminal command).
If they do not, then
a: raise a bug for your distribution,
b: change to a distribution that does.
6 • No Wayland - I use Nvidia (by morgan cox on 2019-09-16 09:44:06 GMT from United Kingdom)
As a Nvidia user my understanding is that Wayland in KDE with Nvidia is not usable at present.
Would like to start playing with it soon .
7 • X ...or Wayland (by OstroL on 2019-09-16 10:36:48 GMT from Poland)
They say old is gold, so still it is X.
Wayland doesn't have many followers, except one company, now sold to IBM. And, IBM has an old fashioned bureaucratic thinking. Doesn't bring in money, would go. Gnome is pretty buggy too, and with Wayland...well...
8 • X.Org (by Chris on 2019-09-16 12:29:36 GMT from United States)
It's X.Org for me, because I run Nvidia proprietary graphics. Besides, I've been running Linux with X.Org for 10 years and, if it ain't broke, and all that.
9 • X (by Tim on 2019-09-16 13:55:36 GMT from United States)
I'm still with X, for all the listed reasons Ostro and Chris said. I know it and it works great. I'll change when someone gives me as the end user a reason to.
10 • Ubuntu Wayland (by vern on 2019-09-16 15:05:53 GMT from United States)
Wayland on Ubuntu works flawlessly. I have never had an issue.
11 • Wayland compatibility (by Juan on 2019-09-16 18:39:00 GMT from Panama)
I'm on Xorg because Wayland can't support neither the Mac menu funtionality nor the compositor in my desktop environment (appmenu and compiz). Until those 2 become supported Wayland won't be usable for me.
12 • Wayland doesn't meet my needs (by Chris on 2019-09-17 02:28:18 GMT from United States)
Wayland on Fedora 30 is good enough now that I can use it for a while without noticing it's not Xorg, but only if I'm not doing much. If I try to do real work on it, I quickly trip over a bunch of little things that might be tolerable individually but which together are pretty annoying.
It starts with the fact that you can't remap the mouse buttons (I like the middle button to open menus and the right to paste and (in file managers) stand in for a double-click. For this, Wayland is doubly broken: Even in Fedora, which tries to simulate it, the time-saving select-and-click copy-paste doesn't work consistently. And remapping mouse buttons doesn't, either.
Likewise for various window manager features (in Gnome, at least; I hear it's worse on KDE).
Wayland's GUI performance seems about the same as Xorg's on my Intel based system.
13 • Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) (by nothanks on 2019-09-17 07:29:52 GMT from France)
Usually, in my opinion, the Polls ends up down in the drain.
Is that because the users are Grinches? Or because the devs chose to go against the flow?
14 • X.org vs Wayland (by Simon Plaistowe on 2019-09-17 08:25:59 GMT from New Zealand)
X.org all the way until such time as Wayland becomes mature enough to compete. Then I'll re-evaluate.
15 • Still in X11 land (by SuperOscar on 2019-09-17 12:18:17 GMT from Finland)
I recently bought a Radeon graphics card to replace my old Nvidia card so that I could at least try out Wayland sessions (in openSUSE Leap with KDE Plasma). No luck. After a couple of seconds, Wayland sessions just quietly log me out without even an error message.
This seems to be the current situation pretty much elsewhere, too. Sometimes Wayland might survive long enough for the user get annoyed with a bug or “feature”, but most often it just crashes.
16 • Wayland or Whyland? (by Nasoj on 2019-09-17 14:55:12 GMT from Mexico)
In my brief and traumatic experiences using Whyland, the results have always been predictably the same, either a) the application crashes such as when needing to SU and app like Gedit and it just refuses to open or b) the performance is lackluster and choppy on my older warhorse of a laptop. Wayland may be an improvement over Gnome, but that theoretical improvement is useless unless it translates into the real world, which still, it does not. So Wayland in my books is still Whyland until further evidence to the contrary.
17 • No Way Land (by Ark on 2019-09-18 09:16:13 GMT from France)
It's impossible to use wayland in a normal enterprise environment. Problems for remote desktop apps (like Teamviewer), problems with sudo apps (like Gparted) and just overall other minor problems that never happens in x.org. And as someone who's just interested in stability, what does wayland bring onto the table for that ? Nothing yet.
18 • Wayland.. (by OstroL on 2019-09-18 09:44:29 GMT from Poland)
Thoughts born in one person's mind cannot be moved to another person's mind. Most thoughts can be explained by word (or by code as in Linux), but not everything. Even though some people say, that anyone can be replaced, it cannot be done. The person goes, the thoughts also go. the others might continue, but the result is not the same. One example, Budgie desktop and Solus. Budgie is still stuck at 10.5, since the main developer left with his thoughts.
Same with Wayland, I suppose.
19 • Wayland (by Jordan on 2019-09-18 14:54:11 GMT from United States)
What will new users of Linux, or users who just don't care about cli etc, notice about a distro with Wayland as opposed to x.org etc? What's are the differences that the casual escapee from Windows will experience?
20 • Wayland Development (by M.Z. on 2019-09-18 19:53:08 GMT from United States)
"Wayland may be an improvement over Gnome..."
Maybe you just miss typed something there, but no Wayland was never meant to be a replacement for any one Desktop Environment, it lets all the DEs draw their various GUI programs in a better way. Gnome is just out front in implementing it, though I think they would be better off doing a lot of other things related to their basic DE design first, if they wanted an improvement in Gnome.
"What will new users of Linux,... notice about a distro with Wayland as opposed to x.org etc?"
Wayland development began as a response to the problems some folks noticed while working on the guts of the old X11 system. To my understanding they took the guts of the way X11 was being used, (which has to do with making Qt & Gtk draw most things), and turned it into a complete redesign that is supposed to simpler and more secure, while also being more reliable & accurate.
I think the only thing a user might notice, if they were observant, is that things should be crisper, faster, and more accurate once Wayland is working properly. It's still early days for Wayland, so things are probably not there yet, but it's in a state where it is starting to be used more & should see more rapid improvements.
Sadly the Linux user base can be both fickle & obstinate at once, all while being very opinionated at early release software. Sure plenty of us can be fickle distro hoppers that seek out the new & interesting, but just as many like to complain loudly about early software not working right. We even complain about the fact that things are going to change & we make sure to put it in a way that can discourage the devs who gifted us with this free & open software. I don't think we should be threatened by an an open, modifiable path to improvement that can be used in many projects.
I'm all X11 for now & I'm glad the option to stay that way will be around for some time to come, but I'm glad Wayland is there & I look forward to seeing how it progresses.
21 • @ 20 (by OstroL on 2019-09-18 20:56:33 GMT from Poland)
"I think the only thing a user might notice, if they were observant, is that things should be crisper, faster, and more accurate once Wayland is working properly. It's still early days for Wayland, so things are probably not there yet, but it's in a state where it is starting to be used more & should see more rapid improvements."
10 years is quite enough these days to come out with a highly advanced system. For example Android.
The problem with Wayland is "the early days" had never stopped being that way. And, the original thought maker had gone, doing something else. People, who think of something, come back after a while, even to the company that threw you away. Example Steve Jobs and iPod, iPad, iPhone.
People, who think the project won't go forward, goes away, leaving it and start something. Example, Budgie DE and Solus. The thought maker went away, and now trying to create games. Budgie DE was to become 11, but never grew from 10.5. The thought maker started many projects, and dropped them half way.
It is the same with Wayland!
22 • Discord on Wayland (by Michael on 2019-09-19 09:24:21 GMT from United States)
I found that when using discord on wayland I cannot use global hotkeys like I do on Xorg. I read it was designed this way for security (if I remember correctly). Bit too secure for my liking!
23 • Wayland or Whyland? Addendum (by Nasoj on 2019-09-20 15:57:10 GMT from Mexico)
@M.Z yes it was a typo. What I wrote was, "Wayland may be an improvement over Gnome..." however what I meant to write was; Wayland Gnome may be an improvement over Xorg Gnome.
On a sidenote, can the editor write or publish an article on how to optimize memory and processes in Gnome? I want to run a Gnome desktop but with only the bare minimal processes necessary so as to consume the least memory and cpu usage as possible. I'm sure other readers would like to know how to put Gnome on a diet also.
24 • Re: Wayland Development (by M.Z. on 2019-09-20 23:41:49 GMT from United States)
"The problem with Wayland is "the early days" had never stopped being that way."
Cynicism & prognostication are both fairly easy to come by, but it seems to me that Red Hat Enterprise Linux 8 including Wayland by default just created a massive incentive for the biggest Linux support company in the world to make sure Wayland works. Red Hat has thousands of employees, $ billions in assets, and release & QA processes that major businesses the world over seem to approve of.
I suppose that RHEL 8 could get treated like Windows Vista by businesses if there are enough serious issues; however, in the long run 'Wayland will never work' seems like a far worse prediction than 'rockets will never be cost effective to reuse' & there were some very serious experts predicting that not too many years ago.
Number of Comments: 24
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