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1 • Mageia Review (by fa-flyingalone on 2019-07-08 01:34:13 GMT from Australia) |
Good review of Mageia,
They do have a great community,
Taking the small steps forward with a new release is a positive move,
not overdoing the changes and stuffing up a wonderful Distro,smart,
overdoing password prompts hopefully will ease back in time,
Wish the Mageia team and community all the best,
All that hard work will and does pay off.
2 • Ubuntu Snapshot (by vern on 2019-07-08 01:38:33 GMT from United States)
"But failing to start around 50% of the time did not provide the level of reliability I had hoped for"
I have never had that kind of issue. I zsync every few days, and it never fails to boot up correctly.
I have had issue, but bootup is not one of them.
3 • 3-way test run: Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora (by Greg Zeng on 2019-07-08 01:47:01 GMT from Australia)
Very interesting comparison. The report seems to support the Phoronix benchtests of these products, especially with Ubuntu & Fedora. At the time of your testing, Fedora was running a beta version of the Linux kernel. About now (today), the final release of kernel 5.2 is available.
Both Fedora & Ubuntu were running GNOME, which is the heaviest & slowest of all the desktop environments (DE). GNOME is the only (?) DE which, like Canonical's Unity DE, refuses to allow the WIMP (Window, Icon, Mouse, Pointers) environment used by Apple & Microsoft.
Fedora Rawhide is also the most daring: using BTRFS & Wayland as well. Fedora affords this risk taking, being the experimental branch of Red Hat (RHEL). Whether this is the setup you used is not clear. One thing is clear: using raw testing versions of Linux is not recommended for those who want trouble-free operating systems. The final conclusion should be: use only the STABLE final release of the operating system, if you want to do other work, besides repairing faults in the operating system.
4 • Running development branches Debian Sid (by Dojnow on 2019-07-08 02:00:33 GMT from Bulgaria)
"Unfortunately, Debian does not provide install media for Sid" - This is not true, just use mini.iso, 48 MB for amd64: http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/stable/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso and you won't have to do "... and get to work converting my Testing system into Unstable."
"Simply changing the existing APT repository names in the /etc/apt/sources.list file will not work as it includes links to security updates which will not be valid URLs if we do a simple find and replace." - Unstable doesn't provide security updates, so just comment that line with #.
5 • Mageia review (by jeffrydada on 2019-07-08 02:51:32 GMT from United States)
I was a huge fan of Mandrake linux, I used versions 9 and 10 until I couldn't use them anymore. I was so disappointed when they closed up shop. Mandrake/Mandriva was the Ubuntu of Linux before Ubuntu. For me Mageia has carried the flag better than all other forks. ROSA is a close second to Mageia, they both take a long view of usability and stray from engaging in the cutting/bleeding edge game. If you are looking for stability and long term use then Mageia is your distro. I play with and use several Distros, but there is always a Mageia version running for day to day activites, intenet, word processing, audio and video entertainment. My preference is to download the "classic" installer that allows mo to install Cinnamon as my DE. Did I mention stable? Yea, this Distro is stable, solid as a rock. Thanks to the Mageia community for their hard work, many people doubted the potential longevity of a community driven fork of Mandrake and you guys have proven them wrong over and over again.
6 • Mageia 7 (by pengxuin on 2019-07-08 03:26:36 GMT from New Zealand)
quote: "There is no reason to do any configuration yet and we can simply close the welcome window and go through its steps after we install the distribution. "
if you had chosen to do any of the following in the Live session, (some from the welcome window):
set up Wifi network connection,
set up on-line repos,
added some applications,
set up a printer,
created some personal files (photos, music, video, text),
set up proprietary drivers for various hardware, (wifi / graphics),
and then chosen to install, these changes to the Live session would all have been transferred into your newly installed system.
Not many other distros do this.
This allows you to really check the system out before install, and then, after install, no need to recreate that which you did in the Live session.
quote: "It feels like an evolutionary step forward from past Mageia releases - a little more modern, a little more polished"
I think the above is quite Evolutionary.
It does set Mageia apart from most other distros.
7 • tree-style? (by tim on 2019-07-08 03:52:41 GMT from United States)
from the Mageia review: "The desktop's application menu uses a tree-style layout by default"
I cannot find a screenshot here or in websearch showing a tree menu. Thanks in advance if someone can point to an image or enlightening youtube video showing this feature.
8 • Re: "tree-style" application menu (by eco2geek on 2019-07-08 05:17:34 GMT from United States)
@7 - There's a screenshot of the application menu in the 3rd screenshot down from the top, the one captioned "Mageia 7 -- Browsing the application menu and managing background services".
By right-clicking on the button, you can select between the application menu style shown above, an application launcher similar to the one introduced in KDE 4, and a full-screen application launcher.
9 • Debian Sid (by Tran Older on 2019-07-08 05:26:12 GMT from Vietnam)
"Debian does not provide install media for Sid,..."
"Debian Sid may have had the longest and trickiest install process of the group,..."
Why don't you try Siduction, available with Cinnamon, Gnome, Mate, Plasma and XFCE desktops and Calamares installer, downloadable at https://mirror.math.princeton.edu/pub/siduction/iso/
10 • Mandriva and others. (by Bobbie Sellers on 2019-07-08 05:26:13 GMT from United States)
I voted for Mageia but I started with Mandriva 2006 and after 2011's unhappy version and the eventual failure of Mandriva as a company, I switched to PCLinux as Mageia 3 would not install on my Compaq notebook. That notebook went down the proverbial tubes and I ended up with a UEFI Windows Notebook.
At that time PCLinux could not install to a UEFI system without deleting the UEFI which I find a useful tool and I installed a Mageia 4.1 system which I was happy with for several years until that HP failed after about 4 years. By then PCLinux had gotten over its UEFI phobia and I installed it on my second(?) hand Dell E6420. I have been using it since then as it retains many of the features of the original Mandriva including the Computer Control Center. In addition in recent years the Mageia updates have been delayed by quite some months. The PCLinuxOS 64 is a "Rolling Release" which means the updates to the software show up often and usually work fine. A few years back I was flush with cash and wanted to donate to Mageia and this I found was quite difficult for US citizens to do. PCLinux on the other hand allowed me to set up a monthly donation so that I was helping fund my hobby. Otherwise I would be sending them both monthly donations. Because I like the CCC and its workings.
Open Mandriva sounds good but it seems to be a bit behind times perhaps due to lack of equipment for testing. Other developers claim Mandriva roots but if your present Linux is easy to install thank Gaël Duval who originated the Mandrake system from which our present Mageia and PCLinux are directly related. He is presently working on a independent cell phone running mostly Linux which is called /e/ formerly /eelo/.
11 • Running development branches Debian Sid (by Dulzamacis on 2019-07-08 07:15:57 GMT from Spain)
The correct link to mini.iso for Sid install is: http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/sid/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
12 • Debian Sid (by Serge Terryn on 2019-07-08 07:34:28 GMT from Belgium)
Easiest way to install Debian Sid.
Download the stable network installer.
Boot and install.
Coming to the section to choose desktop etc ... uncheck everything. Reboot.
After rebooting :
as root give follow commands:
sed -i 's/stable/sid/g' /etc/apt/sources.list
sed -i 's/main/main contrib non-free/g' /etc/apt/sources.list
apt upgrade and you are done.
As root run tasksel, install your desktop of choice.
Tip: if you want sudo to work out of the box, don't set a root passwd during install, just press enter, then de user you provide will have sudo rights.
13 • Mandriva | Mageia (by Romane on 2019-07-08 08:13:28 GMT from Australia)
Both these system have lived as multi-boot systems on my beastie. Of the two, I liked Mageia the best, but I attribute that to having had Mandriva installed for less time than Mageia, thus less time to properly "play with" and assess Mandriva's strengths and weaknesses in comparison.
Neither of these distro's satisfied me in terms of being an option for my own day-to-day use, but then, I was looking at them in terms of a possible alternative for my wife's computer - her computing needs are much easier than my own. I found that, if needed, either of these two distribution would be a good replacement system. They both look good, they both perform well, they both have all the software that my wife is accustomed to, they are both agile. If I was asked at any time, I would happily recommend either of these.
Developing a system, as the developers of any distribution will confirm, is an involved task. The phrase "horses for courses" most strongly applies in evaluating a system for day-to-day use. In the end, I have found, the developers all do a good job integrating all the niggles and paper-cuts in such a way that in many cases, a choice will come down to personal taste between distributions that perform all the tasks that we expect with no (or very little) niggles and paper-cuts.
14 • Development branches (by Gerhard Goetzhaber on 2019-07-08 11:12:22 GMT from Austria)
When working with unstable editions of what distro ever one should be an advanced Linux user. In that case, however, the adventurer will not just have some funny experience but be fairly able to trust in doing serious daily work, too. Me, for the most time (!!!) of a single development cycle I get lucky with Fedora's Rawhide while any Rawhide user should always be conscious about one or two periods coming along within every cycle towards some next edition (currently fc31) that will cause a new setup unavoidable because of just at those moments Fedora will do heavy structural jumps leaving the recent system configuration useless or even unrebootable. One more notice hereon: Always (!!!) just update by Dnf from commandline!
If you want to try Rawhide you should take use of doing an individual setup from "Everything" ISO thus having benefit of the ability to select your preferred desktop environment as well as any software group you want to get installed from beginning on. Me, I always choose Xfce or Plasma for I hate GNOME and I will always hate it for in my opinion GNOME is nothing but terrorism against users.
Ubuntu nightlies do work well, all right. However, Ubuntu's quite different from my preferred direction of Linux development.
That thing with Debian Sid clearly is that Sid is everything else than a contiguous distribution: Sid repos can just serve to try out some single pieces of software on a testing system! If you don't believe in then you may seek your fortune with Siduction as they've been bravely searching the impossible. May be you like it. Me, I think it's akin Jesus' path towards the Holy Cross : ) The very better proposal for all friends of an up-to-date Debian is starting with the all about recommendable Sparkylinux!!
15 • Debian Sid based distros (by OstroL on 2019-07-08 11:55:16 GMT from Poland)
VSIDO for one, https://vsido.org/template/index.html, Deepin for two. Very nicely done Debian Sid distros.
16 • Mageia update manager (by Simon on 2019-07-08 12:11:22 GMT from Switzerland)
I can confirm, the updata manager does not work for me too. It is a no-go bug for normal users. I hope they will solve the problem.
17 • Debian Sid based distros (by zcatav on 2019-07-08 12:34:19 GMT from Turkey)
What about Siduction?
18 • Shuttleworth Hyperbolic Time Chamber (by Dr. E.S. Ktorp on 2019-07-08 13:12:38 GMT from United States)
"..I was able to locate the distribution's daily ISO snapshot which, despite the name, appears to be updated about once a week.."
Canonical stretching the truth? I'm shocked-- SHOCKED, I say!
19 • More loss of choice (by Tim on 2019-07-08 13:57:00 GMT from United States)
I noticed two things in this issue that, to me, indicate further loss of user choice in supposedly open software:
1) The thing about being forced to use a Snap package for Chromium (if you want to use Chromium) in Ubuntu and probably other Ubuntu-based distros
2) Google requiring compliance with their "new standards" in order to use certain of their applications, such as calendaring. I'm not sure what platforms this will affect; it seemed to be talking about mobile phones.
This and other recent items are leading me to seriously wonder, how much longer will FOSS be free and open?
20 • Installing Sid (by Jesse on 2019-07-08 14:19:37 GMT from Canada)
A few people have pointed out that there is a mini, network install image for Debian Sid which could be used to set up the distribution without installing Testing first. Which is true. However, there are three problems with that approach:
1. Network installs often are not practical if the user has a slow or unreliable network connection and/or they plan to do multiple installs.
2. The Debian documentation (linked to in the article) directs users to install Testing and upgrade to Sid.
3. The user needs to know the net-install disc for Sid exists, and it's rarely referenced in the documentation. It's not on the main download page, or the Sid wiki page. It's only mentioned as an alternative option on the Installing Unstable page. You really need to dig for it, which means most people won't use it compared to the approach taken in the article.
21 • Open Source does not mean license to behave stupidly. (by CS on 2019-07-08 14:26:30 GMT from United States)
IPFire payment processor terminates them after discovering they were allowing automated verification of credit card details.
From the IPFire blog:
"To not go too much into detail, this seems to be a case of that our payment provider terminated our contract because of one simple reason: They do not know what an Open Source project is and how donations work."
Talk about delusional. Do they not have reCAPTCHA in Germany? If you're this inept just set up a Patreon account, they handle all of these basics.
22 • Deepin, SHTC (by Siducer on 2019-07-08 14:27:03 GMT from Greece)
@15, deepin in now based on Debian stable. @18, It's a biological wonder how some creatures can carry large quantities of venom without poisoning themselves.
23 • Ubuntu snapshots (by vern on 2019-07-08 16:53:32 GMT from United States)
Regarding Ubuntu snapshot. If you go to:
and check the date, you'll find it is updated almost daily.
I find weekend might be missing. Not always though.
Not sure what Jesse was seeing, but I have been zsync'ing for years and its usually daily updates.
24 • Mageia 7 (by pfbruce on 2019-07-08 16:58:16 GMT from United States)
Apparently Mageia 7 xfce 64 bit does not do Wine very well. I am thinking that the 64 bit stampede is leaving old programs (through wine) in the dust bin. Too bad. I waited over a year for Mageia 7 and find it not suitable to my needs. MX works.
25 • Mageia 7 (by eye_of_man on 2019-07-08 17:40:17 GMT from United States)
@24 FWIW, I installed wine on my new Mageia 7 64-bit install and was able to run the one 32-bit program I tested it with just fine. However, I did edit the media sources and enable the 32-bit entries before doing so.
26 • @22 Deepin (by OstroL on 2019-07-08 17:52:03 GMT from Poland)
Didn't look in their website for a long time, for everything worked and nothing much to ask about, Just upgraded my old Deepin based on Sid to whatever that's coming up. So, the upgraded Deepin would be based on Debian stable, or something in between. Let's wait for a while for results.
27 • Mageia Cauldron, and a note on net install (by aguador on 2019-07-08 18:29:03 GMT from Bulgaria)
I have been using Mageia since Mageia 3, first with KDE, now with Enlightenment, and it has been my main distro for most of that time. Given Jesse's tests of development versions, I wanted to note that since near the EOL of Mageia 5 I have been using Mageia Cauldron, the development version, on my main machine. Cauldron has been the raw cutting edge of the distro and historically not for the faint of heart, but Mageia packagers are very good, and perhaps more careful today than in the past as suggested by their own comments. As a result, only one (systemd) update in my time with Cauldron has "broken" my system -- and that was my fault for not being more careful.
While using Cauldron as your daily driver is not the recommended route, testing updates prior to install can be done very easy with simple commands to flag possible problems. Between testing updates before installation and being conscientious about making backups, the user who wants the latest software can use Mageia Cauldron as if the distro were a rolling release. The downside of doing so is that you become very impatient with distros, and sometimes with Mageia stable, for not having the latest versions of the software you use!
As an aside for those with a good *wired* internet connection considering installing Mageia, the network installation is quite easy. With a couple of initial steps the 50MB "iso" gets you to an online graphical tool that is a mirror image of the full-system graphical installer. The network installer has two advantages: 1) having direct access to WMs or DEs that do not fit on the classical media, and 2) the installation of a fully up-to-date system.
28 • Re: #11, The correct link to mini.iso (by Dojnow on 2019-07-08 19:04:57 GMT from Bulgaria)
No, my link is correct. The mini.iso installer in Stable permits a choice of Stable | Testing | Unstable branch.
29 • Mageia 7 Wine/Stesm (by kilgoretrout on 2019-07-08 20:04:36 GMT from United States)
I think the problem many appear to be having with wine/steam probably comes from failing to properly configure the appropriate 32 bit repos when running Mageia 7, 64-bit. That's not a knock on them or the reviewer because properly setting up the 32 bit repos using Control Center>"Configure media sources" is not as simple as it should be. When you open up the forgoing tool to enable your 32 bit repos, you are confronted with a repo list as long as your arm and, if you're not familiar with Mageia, you are likely to be confused by their naming scheme. These are ones I found I needed for wine and steam to install and run properly: Core 32 bit Release; Nonfree 32 bit Release; and Tainted 32 bit Release. Each one of those repos has a separate "Update" repo which must also be enabled. Since the repo list is so long, it's very easy to miss one of these needed 32 bit repos. I know this from my own experience.
Once these repos where properly set up, I had no further problems with wine. Using Codeweaver's Crossover product, I installed several 32 bit windows applications(Dvd Shrink, Jigsaws Galore, Paint Shop Pro, Picasa3 and a few others) all of which ran without a problem. I also was able to run Grim Fandango Remastered which requires the usual 32 bit gaming libraries. Finally, I installed Steam, which is in the Mageia repos, and it ran fine.
30 • 32-bit support on Mageia (by Jesse on 2019-07-08 20:21:23 GMT from Canada)
>> "I think the problem many appear to be having with wine/steam probably comes from failing to properly configure the appropriate 32 bit repos when running Mageia 7, 64-bit."
I think the issue goes deeper than that. After my trial I kept playing with Mageia a bit and something I discovered over the weekend was, even with all 32-bit repos enabled (not including Testing and Debug), I could not install any 32-bit packages. Items like WINE and ZSNES would show up in the software manager, but none of them would install successfully. There was always a missing file or broken link. Even trying to grab low-level packages that probably didn't have dependencies would fail.
I don't know if the repo information is out of date, or there is another 32-bit repo not listed I need, or something else is happening. But simply enabling all the 32-bit repos (core, non-free, tainted) and refreshing my package information was not enough to get WINE installed.
31 • @19 Tim: (by dragonmouth on 2019-07-08 20:29:26 GMT from United States)
"2) Google requiring compliance with their "new standards" in order to use certain of their applications"
While that may seem like a limitation of choices, you are now free to choose apps from sources other than Google. :-)
32 • 32 bit support (by kilgoretrout on 2019-07-08 20:53:50 GMT from United States)
Jesse, you may be right. When I installed Crossover, it installed OK but spit out a list of recommended and optional 32 bit libraries that were not automatically installed. I had to go through that list and manually install each individual library, almost all of which I was able to find and install using Mageia's package manager. That's not unusual, since Crossover does not officially support Mageia; I have to do exactly the same thing when I install Crossover on Arch.
Once I installed the optional and recommended packages, that's when my wine/steam problems were fixed. I also installed the release candidate and upgraded from there so that my account for our different experiences but I can't see how. Finally, I vaguely recall somewhere during the installation trying to exercise some option to enable the 32 bit repos. It didn't work which is what threw me at first. I couldn't find any of the 32 bit packages listed by Crossover. That's when I checked the repos and discovered 32 bit Core, Nonfree and Tainted where not enabled. Oddly, their corresponding Update 32 bit repos were enabled.
33 • Mageia and OpenMandriva (by Niyas C on 2019-07-09 04:21:51 GMT from Singapore)
Recently, I explored both Mageia 7.0 and OpenMandriva Lx4. I would say, both are decent distributions to use, though not the best.
I wonder, why they are developing two distributions as successor of Mandriva. Just for name sake or fame sake?
34 • Canonical, Chrome/Chromium Snaps, Linux community (by iThink on 2019-07-09 04:36:48 GMT from United Kingdom)
* “Me, Google, Emperor and God”
The real reason behind the Chrome/Chromium Snaps is Google, not Canonical itself!
How about barking at Google? I mean, there is not a single product from Google that is really needed with exception to Chrome/Chromium Developers Tools (which is only relevant for web developers).
Maybe you should (at least try) think first and shout second.
No matter what Canonical gives you, you're complaining.
You get the most sophisticated DE ever (Unity), which allows you to buy the applications straight out of the Start Menu and you bark at Canonical.
You get Chrome/Chromium Snaps (instead of no Chrome/Chromium at all) and you bark at Canonical.
You get ... and you bark at Canonical.
Don't like it? Don't use it!
But, shut your barking mouth and stop complaining.
You've absolutely no rights whatsoever to demand anything.
You got only right to be grateful for a gorgeous product for free.
Without Canonical, nobody would even know that there's such thing as 'Linux'.
What a brainless, ungrateful and poisonous community.
* (“I, Claudius”, Robert Graves)
35 • Ungrateful...? (by OstroL on 2019-07-09 06:50:51 GMT from Poland)
"How about barking at Google? I mean, there is not a single product from Google that is really needed with exception to Chrome/Chromium Developers Tools (which is only relevant for web developers)."
Stop barking at Google too! Google's products helps me (and for lot of us around the world) to live easily. Ah, btw those who bark don't bite.
36 • Can Chromium (by Siducer on 2019-07-09 07:52:28 GMT from United States)
@34, So, the old Google/Canonical conspiracy. Google must be getting careless, because Chrome is still available as a .deb for 19.10, from Google itself. How did they miss that?
@31 "you are now free to choose apps from sources other than Google" Since these are mobile apps, which apps are you referring to?
@19, -Some new proposed "standards" have to do with limiting mobile app permissions to the minimum needed. Better security, according to google. There are also limits placed on browser extensions, and this is where desktop users are affected. Ad blockers like uBlock Origin will have to adapt or stop working in Chrome or Chromium. Exceptions only for enterprise users. In turn, Chrome will include a built-in blocker for what it deems obnoxious ads. No tin foil hat needed for this. Google, in spite of what some believe, is not in the business of checking to see what you do when you surf at night in your ragged underwear. It is in the ad business, and ad blockers are not conducive to increased business. Other browsers based on Chromium (Opera, Edge, Vivaldi, and others) can of course add built-in blockers if they wish.
37 • Tommorow (by iThink on 2019-07-09 08:30:59 GMT from United Kingdom)
@ 35 by OstroL
"... those who bark don't bite." ... as long as they're still barking. ;)
Please start learning reading if you are to place some comments!
[I was not barking at Google but simply noticing the fact -- Web Browser, Mail, Maps, Translator, Online-Office ... everything you get by many others too and that means: "there is not a single product from Google that is really needed"]
@ 36 by Siducer
"... STILL available ..."
The point is that all big companies are concentrating on Linux containers, which is, by the way, also thruth for the Linux Distributions. That's the reason behind Debian (as example) moving some folders under /usr.
The sole thing is that the Flatpak and Snaps make 'the life easier' for many developers and are less time consuming (== cheaper).
The consequences we see already -- more and more new applications are becoming available only as a Snap or Flatpak. Many others stay in repositories on some older version and the newer versions one gets only as Flatpak or Snap.
I pesonally, also prefer the 'repository way' but, that's irrelevant. The world's moving forward with or without me.
38 • changes (by Jordan on 2019-07-09 14:30:20 GMT from United States)
@37 "The world's moving forward with or without me."
Forward? Isn't that what the debate is about? Whether it's really a forward move or not (systemd/snap/ etc)?
39 • Chromium snaps (by Barnabyh on 2019-07-09 15:18:32 GMT from United States)
Actually, having Chromium snaps does not seem such a bad idea, except when you're taking the purity view that it's not according to the Unix philosophy, but what in the GNU/Linux universe is these days?
On Debian 9 and LMDE3 the latest package is Chromium 73 which can not be upgraded any more in a stable distribution due to dependencies. Unfortunately Google has this habit of breaking compatibility and rapidly requiring new libraries and they never changed. Snap provided a way to upgrade to Chromium 75 with everything in one package, with the added bonus of localization (which I did not bother with before) and probably Widevine included as well.
What I mean to say is there is a good case for snaps (or flatpaks). This, an easy way to provide updates to packages with quickly changing dependency requirements, is exactly what many users demanded a few years ago in the comments here on this forum.
40 • Why fight progress? (by Garon on 2019-07-09 17:15:29 GMT from United States)
Of course snaps and flatpaks are a step forward, in the right direction. There are too many problems with missing dependencies in deb and rpm packages. It didn't use to be that way but things are progressing so fast that it's hard for developers to keep up. Repositories cannot be trusted anymore and broken packages are becoming more common. It's my belief that the only way someone can get what they want is to compile it themselves and that has it's own problems. It's going to be a while before snaps and flatpaks are perfected and accepted but that day is approaching faster then we thought. And that is progress.
41 • nightly or beta distros (by az on 2019-07-09 21:07:50 GMT from United States)
first time ever reading distrowatch weekly
wouldn't even think of using an unstable version by itself, (that is on a working desktop or laptop that i need to connect)
i would on a second sytem to satisfy my interest (curiosity)
started using linux 1 1/2 yrs ago; wouldn't go back to windows
42 • @40 you're sort of right but it's not retroactive... (by backwards on 2019-07-09 23:23:59 GMT from United States)
even if snaps flatpaks become great lot of time and effort was wasted
and i bet that grand plan flopps too, linux doesn't have the central control needed...
43 • Mageia review (by Tony on 2019-07-10 02:15:33 GMT from Bulgaria)
It's not that I don't like OpenMandriva, but it comparison to Mageia it has way less software to offer in it's repos. The main difference between the two is that OpenMandriva is KDE focused while Mageia is not, which is exactly what I am looking for. I want my Xfce, my windows managers and my Gnome apps. Thanks for the great reviews for both distos, clean and professional as always.
44 • Upgrade to Debian 10 went well (by eco2geek on 2019-07-10 05:29:49 GMT from United States)
I upgraded from Debian 9 to Debian 10 the other day. The tl;dr version: the upgrade went fine with almost no problems. Follow the upgrade instructions in the Release Notes:
The one thing I'm kicking myself for not doing is, there were two configuration screens (from "dpkg-reconfigure") at the start of the upgrade, that were network-related and esoteric, and I should have written them down for further investigation later. (One had to do with updating Samba's config file for use with WINS, and the other had to do with specifying the port I wanted to use with UPnP -- if I remember correctly.)
By "problems" I mean things like, after re-enabling the Virtualbox repo, it wouldn't let me install Virtualbox 5.2 due to missing libs, so I had to install v5.1. And for some reason Frozen Bubble won't run full screen. Fairly minor stuff.
Also, after googling for help, I found instructions on how to get plymouth working, something I gave up on with Debian 9. All in all, it's good stuff. For an amd64 KDE install, the new KDE Plasma version is 5.14.5 and the default kernel is 4.19.
45 • Re: "Without Canonical, nobody would even know that there's such thing as Linux" (by Daniel on 2019-07-10 07:47:57 GMT from United States)
I think there is a worthwhile point raised in 2013 blog post written by Adam Williamson (part of which I've quoted). It should be acknowledged that Williamson is an employee of Red Hat and prior to that worked for Mandriva, but I don't feel his post should be dismissed out of hand because of his professional associations.
Before I provide the quote, let me first state that, as noted, the blog post is six years old, but I feel the general premise put forth in that post still holds. In the post Williamson mentions the NetMarketShare figure for Linux being 1.13% in May 2010 (this isn't included in the part I quoted) and the Linux usage share provided by W3Schools being 5.3% in the middle of 2011. To provide some updated figures, Linux usage share for June 2019 is 2.07% (2.47% if including Chrome OS) as reported by NetMarketShare, and 5.8% (6.2% if including Chrome OS) for May 2019 as reported by W3Schools. These figures are based on web browser usage (segmented by underlying operating system). As the thrust of Williamson's post focuses on desktop Linux adoption, NetMarketShare and W3Schools can at least provide some data towards that end.
"What does w3schools say? Much the same.
Their earliest numbers are March 2003 – Linux 2.2%, Mac 1.8%, Windows all the rest. By the time the first Ubuntu release was just about to show up, September 2004, Linux was up to 3.1%, with growth over that 18 month period smooth: contrary to popular belief, Linux use was growing at a constant rate prior to Ubuntu’s emergence, according to these numbers. At that time, Mandrake was the most popular Linux distribution for ‘regular desktop use’, occupying the spot Ubuntu occupies now.
After the emergence of Ubuntu, the growth rate actually appears to decline quite a lot, from 2005 through 2008. The number at the end of 2004 is still 3.1%; by the end of 2007 it has reached only 3.3%. Growth picks up again a bit over 2008, 2009 and 2010: by the end of 2010, Linux use has hit 5.0%. Linux usage finally peaks at 5.3% in the middle of 2011."
The post can be read in its entirety at www.happyassassin.net/2013/03/07/some-sad-numbers-on-how-linux-desktop-adoption-is-going/, but I feel the provided quote adequately represents the gist of the post.
By all means, Ubuntu as a project deserves credit where credit is due. It has brought additional focus to the user experience, some Canonical employees and some Ubuntu volunteers have been assiduous in their promotion of Ubuntu, and Ubuntu devs and Canonical as a company have made positive code contributions. Precise figures aren't available, but it is not a stretch to assume that among most desktop as well as some non-desktop use cases Ubuntu likely has the greatest usage share of any Linux distribution.
But in terms of growth of Linux as a whole (particularly with regard to rate of growth as touched upon in Williamson's blog post), it is impossible to know for certain if Linux's growth has actually been accelerated by Ubuntu instead of the growth essentially being organic to Linux itself with Ubuntu being more so a beneficiary than a catalyst. My guess is some of both, but considerably more of the latter. If Ubuntu didn't exist, would desktop Linux usage share still be about where it was in 2004, or would it be closer to, if not roughly the same as, where it is now (2019)? This is unknowable, but I suspect desktop usage share would have continued to increase comparably without Ubuntu around.
I am fairly confident commercial, non-desktop deployments using Linux would be about the same without Ubuntu. Linux had already achieved significant mind share among commercial enterprises by 1999 (e.g. www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9904/02/linuxgrow.ent.idg/). VA Linux Systems, which provided hardware running Linux, had an absolutely crazy IPO in 1999 (www.wired.com/1999/12/va-linux-sets-ipo-record/), although the bottom fell out in short order. I think Linux would be just as relevant today for commercial, non-desktop use if Ubuntu hadn't existed. Whether consumer desktop and enterprise workstation growth would be roughly the same is another matter, but I suspect it mostly would be (particularly for workstations).
This is not to say that I wish Canonical had never existed. I am glad they do, and they have thus far proved to be more robust than some of the companies that have existed over the years (e.g. Mandriva SA, Progeny Linux Systems, the original Linspire Inc, etc).
46 • Debian 10 > AppArmor (by Yuri on 2019-07-10 08:00:04 GMT from Russia)
I see that in Debian 10 included (and enabled by default) AppArmor.
It means that all apps (> 50 000) - AppArmor-compatible?
And that about the 3rd party apps (not in official repositories)? I should be disable AppArmor for correctly work this (3rd party) apps?
47 • Mageia/OpenMandriva (by Chris on 2019-07-10 11:35:16 GMT from United States)
"I wonder, why they are developing two distributions as successor of Mandriva. Just for name sake or fame sake?"
They're actually completely separate projects. Prior to folding, the company that owned Mandriva let go of a number of their people who programmed and maintained the distribution. Those people forked Mandriva, copied its repositories and started to develop Mageia totally independently. OpenMandriva was a second fork that came about after Mandriva closed shop for good. It's run by the OpenMandriva Association.
So, both projects have the goal of continuing on with Mandriva in their own way, though totally independently from one another.
Personally, I've tried Mageia a number of times from version 1 through 5, I think. I usually run into an issue with it t that leads me to use other distributions. I've tried OpenMandriva once or twice, but I never seem to get anywhere with that one either. I think my problem is that Mandriva was one of the first Linux distributions I really fell in love with, about a decade ago, and neither fork quite captures that feel for me.
48 • AppArmor (by Jesse on 2019-07-10 15:04:53 GMT from Canada)
>> "I see that in Debian 10 included (and enabled by default) AppArmor.
It means that all apps (> 50 000) - AppArmor-compatible?"
Applications do not need to be made AppArmor compatible. Applications are not linked to AppArmor or modified in any way to be compatible with AppArmor.
All AppArmor does is provide the kernel with rules as to what resources a process can use, or is blocked from using. The application is not modified and, assuming it is running properly, is not affected by AppArmor rules. You will not need to disable AppArmor to run third-party applications.
49 • Ubuntu bad for LInux (by Jordan on 2019-07-10 16:27:32 GMT from United States)
My little theory is that the Ubuntu brains did not factor in any suspicion of association with Windows (perceived or real) as a sort of, "might as well just keep Windows" dynamic.
That decimal plus drop seems about right.. but what's sad is the lost growth potential for Linux.
50 • Ubuntu bad for Linux? (by Angel on 2019-07-10 17:32:29 GMT from Philippines)
@49, Ubuntu brains missed nothing. Linux runs in over half of Azure cloud instances. Guess which Linux is the most popular? In AWS, Linux percentage is quite higher. Guess which Linux is most popular there? Twenty-first century has been around for quite a while now, and still many people's brains are stuck in the twentieth..
51 • Snap Chromium (by Bob on 2019-07-10 18:15:16 GMT from United States)
With all the discussion about snapd and Chromium, I thought I would try it for myself rather than passing judgement without knowing about it first-hand.
I have Xubuntu 16.04 LTS 32bit on my laptop, and Chromium hasn't updated in the repository from 74 to 75, and it probably won't anytime soon.
I ran "sudo snap install chromium". After installation, I had to hunt down the launcher in my file system. I lauched it, checked the version number, 75-latest stable, but noticed something odd. The cursor reverted to a very basix x-cursor, not the current cursor theme I have on my system.
Then I googled "snapd chromium cursor" and found an abundance of posts and bug reports about this problem.
(INSERT FACE-PALM IMAGE HERE)
I'm not impressed. "THEY" want to force this method of installation on the end-user, but aren't making any effort to make sure it works properly.
In addition, there were some new snap folders in my home directory, and I'm not sure if those folders can be deleted.
In the end, I ran "sudo snap remove chromium" and cleaned out all the new snap folders.
Maybe, ten years from now, snap will be a good thing. In the mean time, I'll just keep running 74.
The end of mainstream 32bit Linux is on the horizon. That's OK. My next Xubuntu install will be 64bit, and I'll just have to install Google Chrome. I prefer Chromium, but the snap-crap version is not worth the headache.
- And just in case "THEY" decide to implement/FORCE snap on 64bit in the future , I've installed Manjaro xfce on a destop. It will be something of a learning curve going from a deb system to an arch system, but it could be I just might find a new favorite distro.
52 • @51 Bob: (by dragonmouth on 2019-07-10 20:00:57 GMT from United States)
SNAP is like all the other Canonical-developed projects (Mir, Unity, etc.). Only Ubuntu-based distro developers have any inclinations of using it. All other developers are avoiding Ubuntu projects.
53 • you may have missed the point (by Jordan on 2019-07-10 20:48:27 GMT from United States)
@50 Ubuntu brains missed the opportunity to get Linux past 2% ...
Why look at and be satisfied with 100% of a sliver of the pie when the rest of the pie is being eaten by Microsoft?
They seemed to have not factored in that association with Windows (maybe only perceived, but there none the less).
54 • @ 51 • Snap Chromium (by OstroL on 2019-07-11 07:24:32 GMT from Poland)
You have to understand that Snap Chromium is a work of individual developer, who had given Chromium PPAs before, and Chromium is not a default Ubuntu app. The individual developer can give what s/he wants, and whether you use it or not is your personal matter.
55 • @54 OstroL: (by dragonmouth on 2019-07-11 12:53:26 GMT from United States)
Chromium is not a Canonical product but SNAP is.
56 • Chromium Snap (by Flavio on 2019-07-11 19:22:02 GMT from Brazil)
Kubuntu 19.10 (development branch) replaced .deb package with .snap2 pagkage when upgraded Chromium from 74 to 75 last June, 13:
chromium-browser (74.0.3729.169-0ubuntu2) to 75.0.3770.80-0ubuntu1~snap2
I had a strange Mouse cursor and some problem with Theme, but also could'nt open / save files from / to other partitions. Ok, it is said to be more secure and there are ways to change this behaviors. But I did'nt like to have no more option of a .deb package. I didn't want to use .snap packages.
I have understand it is an essay, because Canonical doesn't want to do all packaging work for a few different Ubuntu versions.
Later, KDE Neon (still Bionic) upgraded to Chromium 75 without Snap, last June, 24:
chromium-browser (74.0.3729.169-0ubuntu0.18.04.1) to 75.0.3770.90-0ubuntu0.18.04.1
Arch is an option to run Chromium 75 without Snap, since June, 5:
Fedora is another option to run Chromium 75 without Snap, as I have seen last July, 5:
chromium --- x86_64 --- 75.0.3770.100-2.fc30
PCLinuxOS uses Chrome by default, and upgraded it to 75 last June, 5:
google-chrome-stable (74.0.3729.169-1pclos2019) to 75.0.3770.80-1pclos2019
57 • @ 55 (by OstroL on 2019-07-11 20:24:27 GMT from Poland)
I agree that snap is not a good app, not yet anyway. It is not an app for the desktop, even though some Ubuntu developers are trying to say. I believe that snap is made to be used in IoTs, which Cannonical is very keen about today. The desktop is not Cannonical's interest any more.
58 • 'The desktop is not Cannonical's interest any more.' (by Tortelvis on 2019-07-12 01:49:36 GMT from United States)
Right. None of the big corporate players in Linux -- Red Hat/IBM, Suse and Canonical -- give a rat's a$$ about the open source desktop. And it can be argued that things would be worse for end users if they did.
Meanwhile, the guy running the whole thing says just let Google do everything with its Chromebooks and Android phones. That will be an unsatisfactory answer for most Linux users.
IMO the open source desktop of the future will be KDE on top of some kind of Debian base. Given the progress of Plasma, that's not a bad place to be.
59 • Debian Sid Xfce based gaming distribution (by debiangamer on 2019-07-12 11:06:41 GMT from Finland)
Easiest way to install Debian Sid Xfce is to install this:
It is easy to create your own Debian Buster/Bullseye/Sid distribution with simple-cdd.
Host: optipc Kernel: 5.2.0 x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: Xfce 4.13.3
Distro: Debian GNU/Linux bullseye/sid
Type: Desktop Mobo: ASUSTeK model: PRIME B450M-K v: Rev X.0x
serial: UEFI [Legacy]: American Megatrends v: 1607
6-Core: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 type: MT MCP speed: 2637 MHz
Device-1: AMD Ellesmere [Radeon RX 470/480/570/570X/580/580X/590]
driver: amdgpu v: kernel
Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: amdgpu
renderer: Radeon RX 580 Series (POLARIS10 DRM 3.32.0 5.2.0 LLVM 9.0.0)
v: 4.5 Mesa 19.2.0-devel - padoka PPA
Number of Comments: 59
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