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1 • What about existing 32BIT LTS? (by Bob on 2019-07-01 01:23:42 GMT from United States) |
Will Ubuntu still support 32bit 16.04 LTS and 32bit 18.04 LTS with updates?
2 • 32-bit applications (by Thomas Mueller on 2019-07-01 01:47:59 GMT from United States)
I run mainly 64-bit OSes and applications but run NetBSD both 64-bit (amd64) and 32-bit (i386). I believe Linux amd64 has multilib capabiloty, able to run applications 64-bit and 32-bit. I wouldn't want a Linux distro to take away the ability to run 32-bit MS-Windows applications through Wine.
3 • 32-bit (by mcellius on 2019-07-01 01:52:00 GMT from United States)
Ubuntu's announcement on providing 32-bit support:
is quite good and helpful. They heard and listened to the uproar after the first announcement from a developer that they would stop including those 32-bit libraries, and that's good: it's important to listen to the community.
They also mentioned that they will work with Wine and with Steam to make sure that the necessary libraries are present. I don't think they understood, before the first announcement, how much controversy would arise, but they listened and have walked it back. That's what we hope a good community-drive distribution will do.
4 • @1, Re: 32Bit LTS 16.04 and 18.04 (by Rev_Don on 2019-07-01 02:17:32 GMT from United States)
Yes. They have made that abundantly clear. Jesse also points that out in the Q&A article, although a bit esoterically.
5 • 32bit (by codemasters on 2019-07-01 05:32:09 GMT from Australia)
Look on the upside. If Linux drops 32bit support, many ppl would probly contribute to alternative OSs, which are all 32bit compatible: reactos, redox, genode, minix, helen, menuet, kolibri, haiku, etc. Wine could also be ported to some of them (it's already being contributed to Reactos). So more OSs being developed means more to try on our computers and more fun :)
6 • 32bit (by Gerhard Goetzhaber on 2019-07-01 05:34:47 GMT from Austria)
Here and there, any average PC user will end up with the need of some proprietarily derived software based on 32bit libraries as in my case there is Canon's UFR2LT printer driver exclusively being able to fairly work my brave LBP-7100Cn colour laser requiring libxml2:i386, libstdc++6:i386, libc6-i386, lib32z1 and libjpeg62:i386 on Debian/Ubuntu, corresponding to i686 versions of libxml2 glibc, libgcc, libstdc++ on RH derived and (Open)SuSE.
Me, I left Ubuntu a lot of time ago for in my opinion Canonical have just been continuing turning more and more towards a wrong direction of development that's to be evenly called badly mutilizing Linux, in many a way! By this, today I've become quite happy with doing all my serious computing by going with OpenSuSE (mainly Leap with up2date kernel) and sometimes with Sparky (based on Debian Testing).
From time to time I still find myself sniffering into Fedora Rawhide, but also the way of this distro because of extremely focusing on Wayland and GNOME can never ever get mine ...
7 • 23 but (by ou_ryperd on 2019-07-01 07:00:25 GMT from South Africa)
Third world countries are still a large user base of 32bit desktops.
8 • 32bit Windows apps and Wine (by OstroL on 2019-07-01 07:53:40 GMT from Poland)
@2 "I wouldn't want a Linux distro to take away the ability to run 32-bit MS-Windows applications through Wine."
The question is why so much worry about Windows apps in Linux!
It should be Linux apps in Linux, not windows apps in Linux. By keeping this idea for such a long time that Windows apps must be run on Linux is only diluting Linux on the whole. Wine actually advertises Windows, not Linux.
The existence of Wine tries to prove that those Windows apps are much better than the Linux ones, and tells users in a way that, if there's no ability to run Windows apps on Linux, the Linux distros are not good enough. The existence of Wine is actually detrimental to Linux.
None of the other OSs, Windows, iOS, MacOS etc are interested in creating a way to run Linux apps on them, for it only dilutes that OS. (Except for WSL, but that's calculated and planned.) There are Window apps for Android, but MS has to create them themselves under Android's specs.
Running Windows apps on Linux through Wine is like running a Diesel vehicle with petrol. That kills the engine!
In the Linux world, Wine should not be advertised, for it in turn advertises Windows.
9 • OstroL you overlook a matter here (by MadmanRB on 2019-07-01 12:03:21 GMT from United States)
There is still a lot of windows software that is 32bit only and while its nice to use linux native apps there are some cases where its not viable.
For example what about accessibility apps? Linux does have them but there are some windows only accessibility apps that many favor over their linux counterparts.
And then we have games, yes i know that seems like a frivolous use of a computer but hey if people want to use their computer for gaming let them do so.
And this isnt just about "living in the past" either. A lot of printers have drivers that are 32bit only
skype is 32bit only
What about playonlinux?
Its not just wine and steam here
Brother printer drivers remain 32bit only, even in 2019.
10 • 32 bit: (by dragonmouth on 2019-07-01 13:00:36 GMT from United States)
I agree with OstroL. Why is there so much concern about Windows apps among the Linux community?! Instead of catering to the Windows crowd, Linux developers should put their efforts towards creating new or improving current applications so that the need for Wine and Windows is eliminated or at least severely reduced. The continual use of Wine and other emulators shows everybody that Linux developers are admitting that Linux programs are inferior to Windows ones.
On a different tack. Linux community loves to brag that revitalizing and extending the usefulness of computers that are no longer able to run Windows is one the major reasons for using Linux. Eliminating 32 bit libraries will consign millions of still perfectly useful PCs to the scrap heat, contributing to environmental pollution. It will also make liars out of Linux proponents.
11 • Nothing to worry about. (by Garon on 2019-07-01 13:04:51 GMT from United States)
As far as the 32-bit problem goes, I don't really see it as a problem. 32-bit will be phased out all over the world at some point in the future, (even in third world countries). I cannot see having problems with WINE as being harmful to the Linux ecosystem. Using a program that only supports Microsoft Windows seems a little hypocritical in my opinion. There is no more software freedom using WINE in Linux then there would be just using MS Windows. It's the same way with games and Steam. Another thing that also bothers me is that no pressure is being put on the developers of all this 32-bit software to rewrite it for 64-bit. All the pressure is being put on Linux distribution developers to find a solution. It seems a bit unfair. I'm sure there will be a solution to this 32-bit disturbance in the Linux Force. Change your distro, change your applications, or go back to using MS Windows and not worry about it (if you don't value freedom).
See how easy that was. : p
12 • Good point (by Garon on 2019-07-01 13:09:31 GMT from United States)
Good point about the hardware. I didn't think about the problems that could pose. what did you mean about, "It will also make liars out of Linux proponents". Thanks.
13 • @8 and @10: religion or tool? (by curious on 2019-07-01 13:15:48 GMT from Germany)
You both illustrate one extreme of the two ways of looking at an operating system:
Is it a belief system, something that must be defended against the heathens or non-believers and must be better than any other?
Or is it a tool, a means to an end, something to make your computer work and provide functionality?
I couldn't care less what my OS is called, as long as my computer does what I want and I can run the software I want - and I don't want the choice of OS to limit that more than absolutely necessary. That is why WINE and other compatibility layers or emulators are good and useful things.
Also, it is often not a question of whether a Linux app or a Windows app is "better", but simply what I, the owner and user of the computer, am used to and more productive with. Somebody else might choose a different app, which is perfectly fine, as long as they can run their favourite app on whatever OS is on their computer.
14 • Choice, Software Freedom and the real world (by Xymox on 2019-07-01 14:05:17 GMT from United States)
While I can understand some of the apprehension at catering to windows software in gnu/linux, I think the people are missing quite a bit of real world scenarios. I am talking about those of us who simply need to multitask and have extreme responsibility regarding our work. We are expected to maintain or use a host of gnu/linux specific software (which we can't really do on windows) yet also *NEED* to churn out polished and professional media content. Gimp is great for photo work but video editing can be quite lacking on the gnu side. Kdenlive might be great for a small school or family project but it does not cut it for freelancers that are under contractual obligation to continually churn highly polished video content (often with use of specific filters and plugins that dont have a gnu/linux counterpart).
It is very easy to take a firm stance and draw a line in the sand if one is only doing more casual work like web browsing (primarily) and less quantity of more intensive tasks (daily video, sometimes multiple videos per day), extensive audio remastering and the like. I won't even get started on things like DVD and Blu Ray authoring, but that is another arena gnu linux is lacking in. Are there options for that? Yes. Are they the types of options that organizations and businesses that shelled out thousands will necessarily be happy? Not really, and that is unfortunate. That being said, there are also certain software solutions that absolutely are best met via gnu linux.
The big concern for me here is that of primary host OS and related implications. I find it painfully ironic that in a general sub-movement of software freedom and philosophy, so many would resort to statist-tactics of control over others and cursory scenario examination. That may ultimately force freelancers, power users and high obligation users to endure the annoyance of stopping workflow to boot into win on a dual boot setup...or just use windows as a daily driver with a gnu linux OS in a virtual machine. Why is that not good for open and free software? Such users would essentially enter a bit of an insulated chamber, literally only using the virtual machine for a number subjective and specific tasks. They would be unlikely to use a wider variety of gnu linux software (e.g., music players or the gnu version of GIMP and similar software) if the host OS can run something natively faster (such as Win GIMP) Less potential for bug reports and overall usage within the gnu OS doesn't seem like the insulation will serve gnu linux overall; users will just have to go back to drawing lines in the sand again.
15 • 32-bit (by dogma on 2019-07-01 15:02:34 GMT from United States)
I have a backup laptop that’s 32-bit. If I had a reasonable way to put an LED backlight into it, I’d still use it somewhat regularly, as I like the keyboard, I like the 4:3 display, etc.
16 • 32-bit libraries in Wine (by Fox on 2019-07-01 15:43:41 GMT from United States)
@8 and @10. For those of us who collaborate with non-Linux users in the real world, access to Windows software can be necessary. I am one such person; I collaborate with other scientists on research publications. It would be nice to use LibreOffice, but it isn’t 100% compatible with MS Word. No Linux word processing app is. So I use MS Word (and PowerPoint for the same reason on Wine. (Crossover actually.) The version that runs best (2010) needs those 32-bit libraries. If I couldn’t use it directly on Linux, I would have to dual boot, and that would be quite often.
17 • I agree with @8 and @10 (by user on 2019-07-01 16:31:54 GMT from France)
The argument of those who want 32-bit maintained is that Linux users want the "freedom" to use Windows software without paying for Windows OS.
18 • Windows apps are better than Linux? (by user on 2019-07-01 16:39:23 GMT from France)
"Wine tries to prove that Windows apps are better than Linux ones"
@13, @14, @ 16
Are saying it very clearly in their comments/arguments!!!
19 • Never a religion (by Garon on 2019-07-01 16:49:12 GMT from United States)
I do believe that you took me wrong on several layers. There are several among our little cult that feel it is wrong to use closed source software at any time. Alas I am not one of them. I do a lot of PLC programing with robotics and automation. There is no other way to run this software without using MS Windows. Yes, computers are just tools. Tools for work and tools for pleasure. Even in Windows I have the 32-bit / 64-bit nightmare. Some of my automation and PLC software will not run under 64-bit. As with a lot of people I have to use what the company provides. Right now I have a 64-bit host and a 32-bit guest VM running on my company laptop. Does the IT department hate Linux? Of course not. It's what's on the servers. Still I ask the question, if people really need MS Windows programs badly for what they do, then why use Linux at all. Personally I do it for the enjoyment factor. Others do it for the kind of work they do. I also like the open source factor. To each his own, but don't tell the zealots that.
By the way, none of my work software will run under Crossover or WINE.
20 • Replacing Wine and in defense of games (by Bobbie Sellers on 2019-07-01 17:15:52 GMT from United States)
Well if you have to use Windows programs a way
to do that would be via a virtual machine if you
cannot get the 32 bit libraries you need to use
Wine, Dual-booting is its own problem.
Games may be the most important use of a
computer. They fill in otherwise useless time
and may help with keyboarding. The entertainment
value of a game may be very important to people
in stressful work.
21 • Running native apps on their own OSs (by OstroL on 2019-07-01 19:03:08 GMT from Poland)
I have a 32 bit Windows on a 64 bit device and 64 bit Windows on a 64 bit device, and they are not set to dual booting. I also have a 64 bit Windows on 64 bit device that multi boot with Linuxes and Phoenix OS (Android). And also a fully dedicated Linux only box that multi boot only Linuxes. I am not going to throw away Windows that came with any of the devices that I paid for, whether it was just a 10$ OEM Windows. So, if I badly need a special Windows app, they run natively on the Windows OS.
I don't use Wine/Crossover on principle. Never used them. I have nothing against Windows, so I use Windows apps without any grudge. And, I do that on Windows, not on something that secretly propagate Windows (Wine/Crossover). Today, we have a problem because of that. Linux can't go forward faster, because some "Windows apps on Linux" guys are demanding a slow down. Linux doesn't have to follow Windows, it can and should create its own paths. Let others follow (WSL for example).
If anyone wants to use Windows apps, then do it on Windows. Pay for the OS, OEM or not, just as you pay for the games. Don't use Windows apps on Linux through an emulator, (or non-emulator, or whatever). It is just a dirty hack, that's all. And, it propagate Windows. Help Linux grow, not Windows. A company at Redmond would look after it.
22 • Ubuntu's plan to drop 32-bit packages (by Flavio on 2019-07-01 19:36:22 GMT from Brazil)
I have dropped Windows 3 years ago, but I will not drop my workfiles from the last 30 years. So, I don't start any new work with any software other than Linux software, but I need to keep my old works. For this and other reasons, I started moving out from any dependency on Canonical, since 2017.
It is sad. Kubuntu was my "main" distro from 2009 to 2016. But I cannot stay dependant on corporative decisions which don't keep in mind its desktop users.
I was testing Kubuntu 19.10 (development branch), but recently it has forced me to replace chromium.deb package with chromium.snap2 package, and it is not what I want. I have never wanted to use Snap (like not all people wanted to use Unity, Mir, Upstart).
23 • What's on here - Linux or Windows? (by Gerhard Goetzhaber on 2019-07-01 20:07:30 GMT from Austria)
I'm wondering about that few guys making it a matter herein! Does Ostrol stand all alone?
Me, I'd been successful with having stepped over to Linux completely. It'd been a project that lasted years but was lastly a win over all:
O.k., there are cases of emergency as for instance you might have received a disk from your radiologist's containing some software requiring Windows and .NET while even missing image files declared in a way thet they can be opened under Unixoid systems as well. Such a situation may have you "legally" ask for Wine. However, most Linux users seen talking about seem to hold Linux as atoy only, living all besides the great possibilities the free OS would offer to them if they just experienced it.
Drivers to get periphery work (as I wrote in @6), o.k.! But just running more and more Windows apps under Linux?
If there will be too few serious Linux desktop users this might kill Linux some day, forcing us to seek our fortune with BSDs: Oh Lord, help us!
24 • Linux v Windows (by JediKnight on 2019-07-01 20:42:31 GMT from United Kingdom)
Most of us buy a desktop or laptop which boots to windows by default. Its installed on the HD or SSD and the ID to reinstall Windows s probably hard coded into your BIOS.
Given that large HDs are cheap these days the simplest solution to running Windows or Linux applications is to purchase a cheap HD and install Linux on that. I have several gigabit HDs purchased for around £34.
A simple screwdriver will allow swapping of Operating systems.
Thats what I use and it is a lot less hassle than dual booting which I've done in the past.
Why on earth would you kill performance of programmes you want to run by using an emulator?
Horses for courses.
25 • @24 JediKnight: (by dragonmouth on 2019-07-01 21:49:28 GMT from United States)
No need for a screwdriver to swap O/Ss. I use removable trays with a dock. Pull an O/S out and push another one in. I have HDs with Windows, various Linux and BSD distros. Each O/S runs natively on the system. No emulators, no containers, no VMs.
26 • Wine, Linux Desktop Market Share (by Kim on 2019-07-02 01:11:21 GMT from Austria)
Funny comments: "Wine promoting Windows ..."
On the other hand I can gladly acknowledge that a few Linux distros nowadays are stable enough to offer a viable desktop environment for general use. That is why I am using both OSes on a daily basis without being biased towards any of them.
27 • Debian (by Tim on 2019-07-02 01:39:18 GMT from United States)
I've had the same thoughts as you. Ubuntu MATE has been my go to Linux for years, but I've always seem it as a version of Debian that was quicker to get running. I'm not really interested in any major structural changes, so I started to switch back to pure Debian.
The buster rc2 had some install issues for me, but once I got through them it seems like an extremely rock solid version of Debian. It shares a kernel with my favorite Ubuntu MATE (4.19) so I'm not surprised. It has a good selection of software and I could see myself using it for it
28 • Continued (by Tim on 2019-07-02 01:40:29 GMT from United States)
Sorry, bad touch screen.
I could see myself using it for its 5 year life cycle.
29 • 32-bit reasons?, and dual boot (by Angel on 2019-07-02 03:31:46 GMT from Philippines)
I'm sure many people use 32-bit software, judging by the survey results. Ubuntu has relented and clarified. No matter what, 32-bit will be available for some years. Good for those who need it. But some of the reasons given make me scratch my head.
Wine: Great if you want to run old versions of MS Office and things of that sort, but CAD/CAM and video editing? Be serious! When I want to use Windows software, I use Windows.
Third World: Ever hear of the smartphone? My Filipina wife has a laptop, touch-screen and all, which she very seldom uses. I've had the SSD out of it for 2 weeks now, and she has not asked about it. Family in the hinterlands have no PCs. They use smartphones, as she does. The only locals around here who own a laptop are an old couple next door; (yes, a 32-bit netbook,) but you would have to pry their Windows 7 out of their cold dead hands. Students buying PCs for school use, new or used, will get 64-bit. Maybe you'll find some 32-bit PCs at some schools, businesses and government offices, but none are asking for Linux so they can run their software on wine. Linux saves? Not really, just about all software in the 3rd worlds and most of Asia just "fell off the truck."
@24 -Dual-boot harder than pulling swapping drives? I can reboot, switch and be back in less than 2 minutes, hitting a few keys. How is that harder? I do have an SSD in the DVD player bay of one laptop. I can hit F12 when starting and boot from there, but no screwdrivers needed.
30 • Re: Ubuntu's plan to drop 32-bit packages (by Daniel on 2019-07-02 06:04:40 GMT from United States)
A potential problem with a PPA using Launchpad was outlined in www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2019-June/147991.html, but as the headache has been delayed until after Ubuntu 20.04, it's not an immediate issue.
The idea of 32-bit application support in Ubuntu being dependent on frozen 20.04 libraries seems unappealing the further time progresses beyond 2020; certainly for those who use the most recent version of 32-bit Wine, the same general pitfall as mentioned regarding 18.04 packages in the post @ discourse.ubuntu.com/t/intel-32bit-packages-on-ubuntu-from-19-10-onwards/11263/121 will in time exist for 20.04 packages. For 32-bit proprietary software that is no longer developed, frozen 32-bit libraries (in sandboxed containers) won't really matter.
I don't expect Wine to be significantly redesigned in a way that allows 64-bit Wine to run 32-bit Windows programs. I'm not going to finger-wag at people for using Wine, nor am I going to outright admonish a distribution for discontinuing 32-bit package builds. Different people have different wants and priorities. I will say that the quality of communication prior to the June 18 Ubuntu announcement was lacking, but I am glad Ubuntu devs ended up extending the time frame due to the pushback they received.
Assuming Ubuntu does freeze select 32-bit packages after 20.04 (while having dropped others), for those Ubuntu users that in the years after 2020 feel they need newer versions of those packages than Ubuntu 20.04 provides, I would question the point of anyone creating a containerized 32-bit runtime environment based on another distro (e.g. Debian, etc) for use on Ubuntu instead of just switching to another distro altogether.
31 • 32 v 64 bit OS (by zykoda on 2019-07-02 06:37:10 GMT from United Kingdom)
When 32bit precision is sufficient for an application running the code on a 64bit multicore CPU or GPU with CUDA, openmp or openacc directives can yield significant performance gains over similar 64bit code. At present the gcc compiler collection lags behind the Portland Group compilers of which the community edition is freely available and released twice annually.
32 • cost (by anticapitalista on 2019-07-02 08:19:36 GMT from Greece)
@24 - Not everyone lives in a country where hardware is 'cheap'. For some (many?) £34 is a months income.
33 • 32 bit (by Jim on 2019-07-02 10:22:46 GMT from United States)
Ubuntu can do what they want. They are under no obligation to anyone. I can do the same, and quit using Ubuntu anytime I want.
34 • 32-bit (by Chris on 2019-07-02 12:28:38 GMT from United States)
I run 64-bit Linux but I'm a gamer, so I obviously run 32-bit games on a 64-bit OS. I have over 100 Linux compatible games in my Steam library, and close to that in my GOG library. Even some of the GOG games require 32-bit libs to be installed to run the game. If Canonical wants to take away my ability to run those games on Ubuntu or any OS based on Ubuntu, I'll switch to another OS. I've been using Ubuntu-based operating systems for about 10 years, but I'm not married to them. That's the great thing about Linux, there are plenty of options out there.
An example of a Linux distribution that only has a 64-bit .iso but still maintains 32-bit packages is Solus OS. I have that installed on an Alienware Steam Machine, and it works great for playing my Steam games. GOG games work great on it too. So, no sweat Canonical, it's been a fun ride, but I'll drop you before I'll drop my games.
35 • 32-bit (by Sanjay on 2019-07-02 12:43:16 GMT from India)
I am using 64 bit OS (kubuntu 18.04) for android development and for Web Development that still need some of 32 bit library so untill we don't have any substitute and Canonical remove, then I have to move to Manjaro or OpenSUSE ....
36 • Ubuntu's plan to drop 32-bit packages (by Flavio on 2019-07-02 15:11:08 GMT from Brazil)
@27 I have been trying Debian (5, 6, 8...) KDE since 2009 but sadly I have never achieved to make it work so fine as Kubuntu, Mint KDE or KDE Neon. I have a Debian Testing for 3 years, now (Jessie > Stretch > Buster), and it has never broken. Just, doesn't work so fine, to me.
So I have been trying other distros. ─ Mageia, openSUSE, PCLinuxOS, Arch, Slackware are fine, and I think I will stay with them.
I will keep KDE Neon (Bionic) and Mint 18 KDE (Xenial), too, while possible.
37 • @32, Cost (by Angel on 2019-07-02 15:15:24 GMT from Philippines)
"For some (many?) £34 is a months income" .Quite a few people around here earning not much more than that, but I assure you, at that income level people have much more pressing concerns than the cost of hardware.
38 • @ 34 (by akoy on 2019-07-02 20:37:54 GMT from United Kingdom)
"So, no sweat Canonical, it's been a fun ride, but I'll drop you before I'll drop my games."
Do you pay the same amount of money to Ubuntu that you pay for games?
39 • Windows 32-bit software (by Dave Postles on 2019-07-02 21:16:22 GMT from United Kingdom)
I inherited a Compaq box from my wife who wanted something more current. It ran Windows 7 64-bit. It refused to install MapInfo 4, Minitab 14, and Ucinet 6, all 32-bit. These run fine in Wine on Linux. Perhaps I'm missing something.
40 • buster (by Tim on 2019-07-03 00:21:19 GMT from United States)
Your experience is similar to mine, except i use MATE instead of KDE. I've bounced between Debian Stable, Debian Testing, LMDE, Mint, Ubuntu, and now for 3 years, I've been very happy with Ubuntu MATE.
It's only been for the past several days, but running the MATE desktop Debian Buster seems to be one of the best I've used.
It's not an easy setup, and there were definitely issues to sort out. To be fair I was using an rc2 installer and not a release. But the reward has been a system running as well as my favorite Ubuntu MATE (18.10) and I'm really excited about the idea that I could get 5 years out of the install. This is definitely the best Debian stable (compared to its peers) that I've used since 6 or 7.
41 • 39 Windows 32-bit (by Angel on 2019-07-03 06:20:13 GMT from Philippines)
Backward compatibility is not perfect. Nothing to do with 32 or 64-bit. WIndows does have its dependencies. Newer versions of Minitab run on 32 or 64-bit Win 7 and 10. MapInfo 4 is quite old (1995?) so probably nothing doing there. The other two are not as old, so they may run in 7 incompatibility mode if you haven't tried it. No guarantee. Wine, on the other hand, can't run most newer 32-bit software. It's still lost somewhere in XP SP2 or 3.
42 • Re 39 Windows 32-bit (by mini on 2019-07-03 10:42:55 GMT from France)
@ 39 "Windows 7 64-bit. It refused to install MapInfo 4, Minitab 14, and Ucinet 6, all 32-bit." >>> "Perhaps I'm missing something."
As Angel from Philippines already says, use compatibility mode.
(Right Click on program's shortcut, .exe file, or installation file - Click on Properties - Click on the Compatibility tab - Check the box: Run this program in compatibility mode for - Click on the drop down menu arrow and select Windows XP)
Have you even bother to do a search for "run in compatibility mode"?
43 • cost (by anticapitalista on 2019-07-03 11:37:20 GMT from Greece)
@37 - "Quite a few people around here earning not much more than that, but I assure you, at that income level people have much more pressing concerns than the cost of hardware."
That was exactly my point.
44 • @43 cost (by Angel on 2019-07-03 11:52:59 GMT from Philippines)
"That was exactly my point." Then I am missing something. @24's post was about dual-booting versus buying an HDD. I'll expand. People at that income level are not worrying about whether hardware is cheap, or about Linux, Windows, dual-booting, or even computing as a whole. They would be more concerned about the price of a kilo of rice.
45 • @43, dual vs hdd affordability (by Angel on 2019-07-03 13:10:44 GMT from Philippines)
I don't mean to seem too contrary. I appreciate very much the work you do in MX an AntiX. With that said, it's just that something about your argument strikes me as wrong. Whether someone else somewhere can or cannot afford to do what @24 does has no bearing on whether he should or should not do it. And when you bring up bare subsistence earnings, it reminds me too much of the old maternal custom of admonishing their young ones to eat all their food because there were children starving in China. The one is irrelevant to the other. What @ 24 does I find inefficient, but if he wants to the time and money, they are his time and money, and whether someone else can afford it has no relevance.
46 • Windows 32-bit software (by Dave Postles on 2019-07-03 13:58:55 GMT from United Kingdom)
@42 Nope, I didn't bother because I am not a Windows user. I haven't used Windows since 2005 (when I was compelled my my employer).
47 • cost (by anticapitalista on 2019-07-03 15:10:32 GMT from Greece)
@44,45 - Post 24 says "Given that large HDs are cheap these days the simplest solution to running Windows or Linux applications is to purchase a cheap HD and install Linux on that. I have several gigabit HDs purchased for around £34."
I answered that £34 is not cheap so this option is not a 'universal' one. My post was simply to point out that what some see as a cheap, simple solution is not the case to others.
48 • Re, Re 39 Windows 32-bit (by mini on 2019-07-03 17:17:04 GMT from United Kingdom)
@46 Big surprise! It's obvious that you didn't know how to use Windows and didn't bother to look for a solution, that's why I wonder why do you say that "Windows 7 64-bit refused to install" soft that "run fine in Wine on Linux."
I'm not looking for a fight, just that is annoying to see people complaining about any OS when they are to lazy to even look for a solution.
49 • back to 32bits (Linux) (by Titus_Groan on 2019-07-03 19:16:42 GMT from New Zealand)
Canonical, as a Business, is making decisions, as a Business.
That it affects "downstream" distros is a side issue.
That those "downstream" distros have chosen to take a shortcut with their distro and choose to ride on the work of and make use of a business product should not be surprised, that a business decision made by "upstream" may be unpopular with their users.
There are choices for such "distros",
Either give up 32bit support when Ubuntu does, or become a real "distro" and maintain all the libraries, both 32 and 64bit, that Ubuntu formally did.
If 32bit support is REQUIRED by a user, then those users will have to locate a distro that still meets their hardware/software needs.
Some users may have a learning curve ahead.
I would be starting to look now, if I was affected.
50 • @46, WIne, Windows (by Angel on 2019-07-04 01:34:24 GMT from Philippines)
You are the reverse side of those who say Linux sucks and that's why they've never used it.
51 • @ 48, 50 (by OstroL on 2019-07-04 08:51:37 GMT from Poland)
Linux doesn't suck, and actually the Windows users don't say that, for they don't use Linux and don't care, mostly don't care.. Linux, actually is very good, even excellent. It doesn't have to run any Windows apps for that matter. Linux runs excellent Linux apps, quite enough for a normal user to live with, without yearning for another OS and its apps.
If anyone wants to run another OS platforms apps, get that OS or get a device that runs that OS. There's no sin in using many OSs and many different devices. Don't use emulators, for this is not the '90s. And, emulators are...well, emulates, but never good enough, always running after never catching up. The OEM Windows 10 is about $10, so not much and the laptop comes fully configured. Disks are larger, so you can have quite a lot of Linuxes (@20GB per one).
52 • @ 51 That's what we're saying (by mini on 2019-07-04 10:06:33 GMT from United Kingdom)
"Linux doesn't suck, and actually the Windows users don't say that, for they don't use Linux"
Windows doesn't suck either, actually, but (some) "Linux users" say that, even though they don't use Windows. (see @39 and @46)
I use whatever works best, probably like Angel, you and others do. Now, I'm on Linux Mint; I play 32-bit old games on a machine running Windows XP (with no internet connection); I have over 200 silly old Games on floppy disks, and play them on a machine with a Z80 CPU and CPM operating system.
I don't expect to run my games on others OS, I'm not complaining and I'm not blaming any OS because I don't know (or bother to find out) how it works.
53 • @ 52 (by OstroL on 2019-07-04 10:23:40 GMT from Poland)
"Windows doesn't suck either, actually, but (some) "Linux users" say that, even though they don't use Windows."
Oh, they are simply misguided people, living in a well (frog).
54 • I'll use what I like, thank you very much (by curious on 2019-07-04 14:13:52 GMT from Germany)
@8, 21, 51
Please stop telling me what software to use or not to use. As I have already stated, emulators and compatibility layers are good and useful things.
Especially for running old Windows apps, Linux with WINE can in some cases be BETTER than Windows 10, so I will most definitely try to use that. And that does not mean that I want to make any operating system grow or shrink.
Whether I have (or get) a device to run any other OS is not relevant.
"This is not the 90s" is certainly not an argument. On the contrary, in the 90s, computing power was much lower, so emulation would often not work. This isn't the 2050s either.
55 • Dangers of Emulators & "Compatibilty Layers" (by Dr. E.S. Ktorp on 2019-07-04 15:01:47 GMT from United States)
Anyone claiming that emulators are not a threat should read about OS/2. DOS programs ran so well, there was no incentive for anyone to write native OS/2 programs. You will note that nobody uses OS/2 anymore.
56 • Dangers of Emulators & "Compatibilty Layers" (by Angel on 2019-07-05 10:00:37 GMT from Philippines)
The commercial failure of OS/2 is a tad more complex than you make it look.
Today there are ways other than emulators to run non-native software. So are they also dangerous? When or if I need to install and old Windows software in Linux, I fire up an XP VM. It uses little memory, integrates quite well, and I need not worry whether it's gold, silver, or will sink like lead. I don't see VMs as a danger, and the only danger I see from Wine is to XP. If and when Wine progresses, it may be a different thing.
Number of Comments: 56
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