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1 • Ubuntu drops 32-bits (by Guido on 2019-06-24 01:35:51 GMT from Philippines) |
What a sad day! Now it is a final decision. No 32 bit support any more. I must stuck with 18.04 LTS or switch to Debian 10.
2 • Testing Clear & Guix Linux operating systems (by Greg Zeng on 2019-06-24 02:09:03 GMT from Australia)
Thank you Jesse for doing what most of us would not do: test these two Linux systems, for hours & hours. Then have both of them FAIL. I tried to use GuixSD (0.14.0) on a new test site: Distrotest.net. ("Clear" is not offered there.) Guix was so slow & buggy, that I gave up. On Distrotest.net, we are only allowed 20 minutes, plus 7 for further testing. These Linux operating systems are not my idea of "fun".
3 • Cear, Guix and the blues (by Triburcio on 2019-06-24 03:47:27 GMT from United States)
Maybe it's because Linux has reached a level of maturity, but lately I'm finding new offerings to be mostly of little use, haphazard, even childish. Jesse's review speaks for itself. Then I look at new waiting list additions and find bluebuntu. Reminds me of those people who used to put fake Rolls-Royce grilles on their Volkswagen Beetles. Really| I'm inspired to create my own distro, and call it fuschiabuntu.
4 • @ #1--Oh! You haven't heard the good news about Ubuntu's other version? (by R. Cain on 2019-06-24 03:48:56 GMT from United States)
"Latest news from the Linux Mint blog"
"Monthly News – May 2019"
"Sun, 02 Jun 2019 14:27:10 +0000"
"Will multiarch support be dropped in 19.2, given the announcement that Ubuntu is dropping 32-bit compatibility libraries in 19.10? Or will it survive via the 18.04 base until the release of Linux Mint 20? I’m asking because this change threatens to kill a large section of my games library…"
[Answer from "Clem"]:
June 21, 2019 at 2:01 pm
"It’s a very good question but it’s a little bit soon for us to answer. **It definitely means there won’t be a 32-bit version of Mint 20**, but we’ll do everything we can to ship functional versions of steam, wine and popular 32-bit libs and applications. *I can’t answer this without first knowing whether Ubuntu will address these issues*, but I can confirm these are important to us and we’ll make sure they’re not overlooked."
No further comment.
5 • Ubuntu and 32-bit support (by Alburgheiro on 2019-06-24 04:30:46 GMT from Russia)
Apparently, Ubuntu 19.10 will still provide 32-bit support but the compatibility libraries will no longer be upgraded. Instead, they will be retrieved from the 18.04 repos. In summary, Steam and Wine should still work.
6 • Clearlinux fail (by Tamada on 2019-06-24 06:03:36 GMT from Belgium)
This is kind of bad from me, but I'm actually not sad that the guys at Clearlinux get the publicity they deserve for their weird technical choices. The way they handle boot sequence, with a dependency to EFI and late loading of microcode updates is not to every motherboard or bios setup liking.
I finally managed to make it boot but It was a costly and stressful experience (bios update, then fix broken mbr with a Windows installation disc, then choosing an exotic option in the boot sequence (UEFI boot of the usb stick -> what ??) ) Honestly, that's a first. I never had to do anything remotely similar for any other distro.
If they ever want to go mainstream, they really should not require such DIY expertise from end users. They must fix that and achieve a much more failsafe and universal boot sequence.
7 • Clear Linux (by julian on 2019-06-24 07:00:17 GMT from Greece)
You tried to review Intel's operating system on a non-Intel processor! That's clear-ly interesting!
8 • Clear Linux not starting (by Pikolo on 2019-06-24 08:08:12 GMT from United Kingdom)
Is there any chance you switched the test computer to boot with BIOS instead of UEFI? I heard Clear Linux can only boot on UEFI
9 • Operating Systems (by fa-flyingalone on 2019-06-24 08:53:16 GMT from Australia)
Have to agree with @2 and @3, How many of these Distros get tested on real machines
A lot of Distros won't work on my old laptop( Core 2 ) and the same Distros also don't work on a near new desktop box ( i7 Coffeelake)
What do they test on, Do they download the iso file just like us ,go through the steps to run a live dvd or usb then install os to make sure it works,
Maybe there should a checklist for an os because some of them don't seem to care or have the experience to be offering a Distro.
Go to that problematic Distro's forum and the amount of problems and stuff ups is shameful,
or it's dead.
some Distros are consistently just a waste of time.
The effort to get them to work if you've got the patience, no not me.
Work or go in the bin !
They offer only a bad experience (for Window users who want to move on)
with no thought about the damage they do to the Linux brand.
Ahh I feel better now, Thanks for reading.
10 • Using 32-bit Still? (by The Rest of US on 2019-06-24 10:34:52 GMT from United States)
While I am sure there are use cases for your particular needs, the luddite-linux crowds constantly whining when 32-bit support is dropped is a little much isn't it?
With the exception of the parts of the global which no other technology could reach, there is no real reason to run X86 anymore, the last PC I repaired that used that architecture I saw nearly 5 years ago and it was barely alive then.
Maybe its time we just move on and stop complaining?
11 • 32-bit (by OneMore on 2019-06-24 11:55:53 GMT from United States)
64bit iso: 1500 downloads
32bit iso: 350 downloads
It seems that 32bit is still useful for a lot of people.
12 • @10: (by dragonmouth on 2019-06-24 12:21:28 GMT from United States)
No, NOT The Rest of US, just YOU. Just because YOU don't like 32 bits and YOU don't use 32 bits, does NOT mean that nobody else should use 32 bits. Why don't YOU limit yourself to working on Win 10 machines and leave US to use whatever WE want.
13 • frivolous distros (by Jordan on 2019-06-24 12:39:59 GMT from United States)
@3 yes I agree. But I also try to see it as linux lovers/likers having a bit of fun with developing and being picked up by Distrowatch, or submitting to DW for the fun of it.
It's okay. Perhaps one of them will uncork a great one at some point. Many have been doing it with Debian, Arch, Slackware, and Gentoo for decades.
14 • 32-bit (by George on 2019-06-24 13:12:11 GMT from South Africa)
Clearly there are less people willing to support 32bit and the cost outway the benefit. If some people find 32bit so important then get some funding to convince companies like Ubuntu to support it or support the distros that still offer it for as long as they can. It is an old architecture and support will die out. It is not a valuable skill for anyone to use or keep up to date as the hardware is not being produced anymore.
15 • Clear Linux (by Angel on 2019-06-24 13:21:29 GMT from Philippines)
I know it's really not my business, but I think Clear Linux deserves another review from you or someone else using Intel hardware. It seems like one one of the most interesting distros out there, and I was curious, so I downloaded and installed it in VBox, and it was as simple as any Ubuntu or Debian, except that it takes a while longer. The installer downloaded another 1.7GB, so it doesn't really install from the ISO. I like it enough to consider it for one of my regular laptops.
The website has good documentation, including a list of supported hardware from Atoms to i7s, but it does not include AMD. There's also a tool to check compatibility beforehand. Just seems a pity that what seems like such a worthwhile distro gets dismissed out of hand due to incompatible hardware.
16 • RE: 32-bit (by Sauron on 2019-06-24 13:27:28 GMT from United Kingdom)
@14. You and some others are clearly missing the point here! This is not just about dropping a 32 bit version of Ubuntu, but dropping all 32 bit multi-lib support altogether! This means NO 32 bit software or games will install or run at all, in the case of games that is more than 99% of them, NO wine and NO steam either as most of the steam games use 32 bit libs even if they are 64 bit! It's a crazy idea.
And no, a simple recompile is not an option in most cases.
You enjoy using your new 64 bit only distro, and leave us others to enjoy our multi-lib OS that will run almost anything.
After all, it doesn't affect you in any way whatsoever, even if the 32 bit libs were there!
17 • RE: 32-bit (by George on 2019-06-24 14:43:42 GMT from South Africa)
@16. If no one is willing to support it then you won't have it. There are reasons for them dropping it and some may be financial, but that is their decision. The point is you and others who want 32bit can either try and get distros to keep it or support it yourself. There seems to be some demand for it but I guess for most distros it just does not make sense to keep it due to its age and cost of maintaining. If it affects you so much then do something about it, especially if there are other people willing to join in. I am not saying that is good that they are killing 32bit, that's just the decision they made and they feel that there seems to be no compelling reason to keep it.
18 • @10 my 32bit machines keep on trucking (by DaveT on 2019-06-24 14:47:22 GMT from United Kingdom)
Good hardware keeps on working. So I have 32bit machines still running, mainly using OpenBSD because they intend to support old stuff for a looong time! And then, the servers I use do not need 64bit processors and 16GB or RAM, 32bit and 1GB of RAM does exactly what I need thank you.
19 • RE: 32-bit (by Sauron on 2019-06-24 15:12:26 GMT from United Kingdom)
@17. You're still missing the point altogether. Ubuntu doesn't maintain it, Debian does and Ubuntu includes it from upstream. I wouldn't think Debian will be ditching it for a long time to come!
As for your support it yourself comment, I don't need to thankfully, I don't use Ubuntu. I've used Debian based distro's for several years. I am extremely thankful for the work done by the Debian devs.
If I was to change base, it most certainly wouldn't be to a Ubuntu one although as many others did, I used Ubuntu for a few years.
This action certainly removes Ubuntu as the starting distro of choice for newcomers as it has been, that's the point!
20 • Loss of multilib option (by RJA on 2019-06-24 15:53:06 GMT from United States)
@17, This is terrible news for people who want to run older games on Linux!
Even Windows 10 supports 32-bit, IIRC, despite Satya Nadella having a reputation for changing things just for the sake of change!
21 • Ubuntu 32-bit support (by David on 2019-06-24 16:18:30 GMT from United Kingdom)
I can understand Ubuntu dropping support for 32-bit hardware but not their dropping the compatibility libraries needed for Wine. Most people who've commented on that have concentrated on games, but there are also some of us who have proprietary productivity software for 32-bit Windows for which there is no available replacement. By coincidence, I heard today of some-one who dual boots Linux and DOS as he has proprietary DOS software that he still needs.
22 • 32 bit (by dragonmouth on 2019-06-24 16:40:31 GMT from United States)
The dropping of 32 bit support is a lemming-like, me-too reaction, similar to the stampede to replace every init system with systemd. Monkey see, monkey do. Somebody, somewhere, for some reason decided that 32 bit Linux is obsolete and useless, so everybody is jumping on the bandwagon. FYI, there are PRE-32 bit systems still being used successfully. They may be only supported in-house but they ARE in use.
Nobody is preventing you from using bleeding-edge 64 bit distros so return the favor and don't prevent those wishing to from using 32 bit obsolete and useless distros. Linux is about choice for all, not just for bleeding edge.
23 • Clear Linux (by Teresa e Junior on 2019-06-24 18:10:24 GMT from Brazil)
No surprise Clear Linux fails to boot on an AMD CPU. It is a distro optimized by Intel and for modern Intel hardware, hence its huge performance boost over other distros.
24 • Clear Linux and CPUs (by Jesse on 2019-06-24 19:12:43 GMT from Canada)
A few people have suggested that the Clear Linux review should be retried with an Intel CPU in case running it on an AMD processor was what caused the failure to boot.
As it happens, I did run the Clear Linux compatibility script on one of my Intel machines and it reported the Intel CPU was also not compatible with Clear Linux's optimizations.
While both processors are 64-bit and support UEFI booting, neither is compatible with Clear Linux. You can check your own CPU's compatibility with Clear Linux using their script: https://clearlinux.org/documentation/clear-linux/get-started/compatibility-check#compatibility-check
25 • @23 re: Clear Linux (by Rev_Don on 2019-06-24 19:14:12 GMT from United States)
Clear does list it's requirements on the site and Jesse's AMD A4 3420 does not meet the minimum requirements. Setting aside that it is an AMD processor it also lacks SSE4.1 or SSE4.2. It's quite possible that a previous release would run on his AMD A4 3420, but that doesn't mean that the latest version would, or should be able to. That's why they post minimum requirements
26 • 32 bit (by Titus_Groan on 2019-06-24 19:21:54 GMT from New Zealand)
If 32bit is important to YOU, just use a Distro that supports 32bit Libs.
ok, there may be a learning curve for YOU, which isnt a bad thing anyway.
different packager, syntax... etc
27 • Plenty of choices (by Who Dat on 2019-06-24 19:56:34 GMT from United States)
Does anyone else find it ironic that some are complaining about the right to have their choices not infringed upon, yet demanding people to not make their own choice about what software they want to support? Most fascinating.
28 • Clear Linux, performance, compatibility (by Angel on 2019-06-24 20:01:25 GMT from Philippines)
@23, While Clear Linux is doing some interesting things, but I don't see a huge, or even small performance boost. On the contrary, the Gnome and Plasma desktops use more resources than on neon or Ubuntu.
Compatibility: I have an i3 4th gen, an i5 5th gen and an i3 6th gen. All support UEFI and are compatible, However, since two of them are on legacy boot, I can only run Clear Linux on one. The others can run it in a container or VM.
29 • android apps on linux (by ricky on 2019-06-24 23:06:11 GMT from Netherlands)
Whilst the option to be able to run those on linux is useful, there isn't anything i would want to run. Mostly in part due to the fact that the playstore is full of spyware and software plagued with adverts.
Mostly the reason i rarely use the android phone i own. I can't think of one game or productivity app that doesn't have adverts, which might be useful over something already available on linux itself.
I suppose, i you are developing apps for android, it's nice to be able to run them on the desktop... but besides that i personally have no use for it.
30 • an ounce of prevention (by Angel on 2019-06-25 01:22:26 GMT from Philippines)
"Nobody is preventing you from using bleeding-edge 64 bit distros so return the favor and don't prevent those wishing to from using 32 bit obsolete and useless distros. Linux is about choice for all, not just for bleeding edge."
@22 and others: No one is preventing anyone from doing anything. Ubuntu, and other distros that may want to, simply will not be offering some choices. That does not prevent anyone from using something that does offer those choices, if available. No one has an innate right to demand their choice from others, whether they be corporations or individuals cooking up distros in their kitchens. There are hundreds of active Linux distros. Use one that offers your choice. A choice, not a right.
Complain about Ubuntu's decision if you must, it's allowed on this and other forums. It is also allowed for you to use ancient hardware if you wish. But if others agree with Ubuntu's choice and tell you so, that is also allowed.
31 • 32bit support (by Vern on 2019-06-25 01:28:32 GMT from United States)
Read this info regarding 32bit support for Steam, games, wine and such:
32 • download statistics (by tim on 2019-06-25 01:37:55 GMT from United States)
@11 Bear in mind that many other download channels exist (download mirrors, torrents)
Folks interested in 32-bit may gravitate toward using torrents, downloading in dribs n drabs across multiple sessions, as their (possibly intermittent) net connectivity permits.
True story: in recent memory, one of my torrent downloads (it was a large gaming-related archivefile) took 6 months to complete. I was quite tickled when it finally completed, surpised that it actually did eventually complete. In appreciation, or what's the right word, I continued seeding that file for an additional year. Ignored by the FirstWorld, we fend for ourselves, and each other, as best we can.
33 • @32 variety world (by Angel on 2019-06-25 02:11:45 GMT from Philippines)
"Ignored by the FirstWorld, we fend for ourselves, and each other, as best we can." You are in the US, tim? I feel for you. Here in the First World, I have pretty good internet at an affordable price.:) But seriously, I would think that Linux people who dabble with older stuff should be familiar with torrents, or at least SourceForge. Just here on DW, I can find a large variety of torrents if I need.
34 • Anbox (sse4..) (by zykoda on 2019-06-25 06:40:56 GMT from United Kingdom)
I had to upgrade my CPU from Phenom 2 X4 955 to FX8320 to make Anbox work at all, The problem was that sse4a, sse4_1 and sse4_2 "instructions" are required. With mint 18.3, post upgrade I found some working applications. Incidentally the upgrade was not primarily for anbox, but to support 8 threads via openmp using single precision C math functions. But a double whammy this time.
35 • Android Linux frustrations (by flybye on 2019-06-25 06:51:11 GMT from United Kingdom)
Tried a couple of Android-capable Linux distros (what happened to them?) but the experience wasn't good.
@9 Linux binned: like some others, you probly have to work twice as hard to get things working. We all feel for u. It's good to express your frustrations - as you say, it allows you to move on. Good luck on your journey, may the OS gods smile on u.
36 • 32bit (by OstroL on 2019-06-25 08:42:29 GMT from Poland)
It is on the way out. And, that's normal. It would be hard for the Linux distro developers to keep maintaining 32bit continuously, and with little resources they have now. The developer teams are becoming smaller and smaller these days. The big Linux companies had sold out or selling out their firms to other business entities. If the bottom line won't hold, they's close shop. So, in a way, its best they drop support for 32bit and concentrate on what they can. Maybe, the community can help on maintaining the 32bit software, if they plan to keep on gaming, or using any other 32bit apps. Anyway, 32bit is going away, so its best to get the divorce earlier, without the hurt.
37 • no Android on Linux (by MikeOh Shark on 2019-06-25 10:51:13 GMT from Austria)
I don't care if Android runs on my Linux. I would rather run Linux on Android.
Somehow, I don't think big G would let me run firejail and iptables on their Android and they would not let me get root easily so I will stick with a flip phone that just makes phone calls. ;)
38 • RE: 32-bit (by George on 2019-06-25 10:56:16 GMT from South Africa)
@19 Then support Debian, you have a choice. Ubuntu has made theirs.
@20 Yes it is bad news for the people who use it, so these people need to make their voices heard and support distros that still include it.
39 • 32 bit drama is a non issue now. (by Garon on 2019-06-25 12:04:32 GMT from United States)
To everyone that has an opinion on the 32 bit Ubuntu decision, they need to read the link that Vern supplied. It sits everything straight. Ubuntu users won't have to worry for a long time about losing WINE or Steam, or whatever. But know this, eventually it will happen, for all desktop distros. People will still find a way to run their old software. Look at the people still playing with 8 bit machines, so I'm sure someone in the future will support a 32 bit distro.
40 • Canonical's (32-bit) Snap trickery (by Dr. E.S. Ktorp on 2019-06-25 12:28:49 GMT from United States)
In Canonical's hellish endgame, all 32-bit dependencies will be contained within snap files.
41 • RE Post 36: 32bit (by curious on 2019-06-25 13:08:06 GMT from Germany)
Then goodbye Linux.
64bit Windows still runs 32bit software, and most Windows software even today uses 32bit installers - even if the software to be installed is 64bit. So that is not going away anytime soon.
Having an alternative to Windows is a good thing. And in many cases, Linux is that alternative and even does things better, at least up to now.
If Linux developers want to stop providing an alternative, that is fine for them. When that happens, I'm done.
42 • 32 bit (by Dave Postles on 2019-06-25 13:40:11 GMT from United Kingdom)
I think that there is a sufficient number of developers continuing with 32-bit, esp. composing Debian. I'm currently using AntiX on my ancient netbook. I take it as the most portable kit on my research trips.Until recently, I ran Slitaz on it. All I need for research trips are Writer and Base. If they discontinue support for 32-bit, I'll just not use it in a connected environment (and I don't do that much anyway).
43 • @ 37 Android on Linux? (by OstroL on 2019-06-25 15:09:19 GMT from Poland)
"I don't care if Android runs on my Linux. I would rather run Linux on Android."
The thing is, both Android OS and GNU OS runs the Linux kernel. What we generally call Linux is the GNU OS running the Linux kernel. So, the apps that run on GNU OS sort of doesn't run on the Android OS, and vice versa. So, it is a question between the two OSs, not of the Linux kernel.
I believe, there should be same respect for both OSs that run the Linux kernel.
44 • *All* 32-bit Packages? (by Spencer on 2019-06-25 16:34:07 GMT from United States)
From that discourse page, it sounds like with the exception of Snaps (which get an exemption, because, of course Snaps do...) the only way to do 32-bit compiled code is going to be containers and VMs that pull from older LTS releases moving forward?
Dropping the i386 core OS stuff I get, but why do the libraries go when they're still in use? They said Steam self-contains what it needs, but that has not been my experience. It is why my 74 *:i386 packages are installed on my amd64 Ubuntu, so unless something changed very recently you need some of those just to *launch* it, and at least a few more common ones for many games to run.
Microsoft essentially reviving x86 as an option on WoA, even if meant as a stopgap, feels like salt on the wound. The world seems to be moving away from the Intel-exclusive architecture set on computers, and getting an x86 application running looks to be a much easier target than an x86_64 application when you're on a foreign architecture. If we drop all the x86 binaries when they run natively on x86_64, then what's the plan when ARM64 computers become more mainstream?
Canonical seems to have *some* kind of capacity to gather statistics on package usage, maybe? Could it make an amd64-exclusive package (*not* a Snap) and encourage using it to upload anonymized (like, use a hash of a service tag or whatever so it's still unique to prevent duplicates) lists of the i386 packages installed on amd64 systems? I'm sure we don't need some 58,000 packages maintained in i386, but what if only 300 of them are actually in common use for stuff like Steam and WINE? Would *that* be worth the effort for folks who have good reason to avoid Snap?
45 • 32-bit Support (by 32accidents on 2019-06-25 18:48:16 GMT from United Kingdom)
Steampowerd reacted already yesterday ... in future, they ‘want to concentrate on another Distro‘.
ARM64 is named 64 because it‘ not ARM32. 😉
46 • 32bit (by Jessica on 2019-06-26 00:12:52 GMT from United States)
@10 && 14. It is one thing to make ISO's and it is another thing about packages. As for the funding they do get paid it is just that they embelze the money on sceams and stuff that does not help the distro. They don't even update there own repos and rely on the community. Just shows why open source and Communisum don't mix. Screw the UK and there distros. The best solution is for the users to ditch Ubuntu for LMDE 2020 instead. Even system76 called out there stupidity. Supporting 32bit packages is not the same or take up as much time as a distro or iso. This is a major reason that users STICK TO WINDOWS XP in 2019.
Hey FOSS devs you know what project does not doe this. FreeBSD and Haiku OS. Sure Haiku is not a flexible as Linux, but with its way of packaging your far better off. Hell even AROS is looking like a good investment.
@ 16 && 17 You both have good points. Here is the thing though. IF they don't fix it Ubuntu will die. No if's or buts it will die. No support for 32bit games or Wine will kill linux for any of the Windows soccer moms. Any progress to killing Windows for gaming dies and there goes many of the base includeing me. I hope Valve pick Debian or FreeBSD. The issue is Debian gets political and you may not want to deal with that. FreeBSD seems better for the long term. Also @17 they do get paid but they waste our money on failures on phones
@22 Yup but what do you expect when FOSS gets polticial. I want to be able to run Linux on every thing from my PC to my Dreamcast. Yet only NetBSD cares about old hardware. Not even Illmose cares any more. FreeBSD's support is a joke and I get why as most devs are complaining about Trump on Twitter instead of coding to make the PowerPC ports work by defult (come on FreeBSD devs). I know most are not like me or Bryian lunduke. He is the old linux world and popey and Chris from LAS are the woke left who are running the linux desktop with there bloated apps and Gnome 3 junk. I rather use my Apple 2 GS or AROS system. Amiga OS is good for a 16bit system even if it is closed source. At least I can use it with AROS now or the open source firmware for the ST line. Linux has to compete or die. Haiku just reached Beta 1 and unlike React OS it works well. All it needs is 3d support and you got the future of FOSS instead of the joke that linux is becoming for the desktop.
47 • Android on Linux? Maybe, but not by using Anbox (by Jeff on 2019-06-26 01:09:45 GMT from United States)
There are a few useful Android apps that I could myself see using on a Linux tablet or laptop, but Anbox is not the way I would use.
To install it requires both an Ubuntu PPA and a snap package, which eliminates any distro I am willing to run.
A while back there were other ways to install Android apps on Linux in development, wonder how those projects are going?
48 • Android Linux frustrations (by fa-flyingalone on 2019-06-26 03:02:07 GMT from Australia)
@35 It was not Linux (read again) binned only the distros that don't start up or cause endless amount of frustrations in getting them to work-hours turn into days, NOT Linux,
Those Distros don't Help (anyone new to Linux).
"Good luck on your journey, may the OS gods smile on u"
Thanks for the good wishes and yes they are smiling on me, Thank You.
49 • @44, 46: 32-bit packages, Microsoft (by Hoos on 2019-06-26 04:50:07 GMT from Singapore)
Microsoft couldn't have hoped for a more effective blow against a rival (ie Ubuntu, and maybe desktop Linux as whole since Ubuntu is the face of that to the non-tech public) if they had engineered it.... or did they?
I'm being facetious. I think.
50 • 32-bit packages, Ouch! (by anon on 2019-06-26 07:20:25 GMT from United States)
Thing is, even if Canonical were to backtrack, the damage is already done. Whatever progress was made wrt attracting more companies to support linux, is now gone. Nobody is going to want to support a platform that is willing to randomly make decisions that will effectively break your software and waste your time and money in the process.
I know that Canonical does not speak for all of linux, but their distro is the most highly recommended for newcomers, and it is often the first taste that people get when sampling linux. It is the most popular distro, and it has the largest public presence of any traditional distro. When Ubuntu does something, people often equate it with linux doing something. So, if Ubuntu stops supporting 32-bit libs, then in a lot people's eyes, *linux* has stopped supporting 32-bit libs. Those of us in the community know better, and we know that Ubuntu is only one distro and doesn't speak for all us. However, what about potential newcomers who are constantly told to use Ubuntu as a kneejerk reaction by the community? What about companies potentially exploring linux support for their products and looking for the largest linux user base? What about companies, such as Valve, that already support linux and will be forced to make drastic changes due to such a drastic decision?
The real kick in the teeth is not that one distro made an extremely questionable decision - it is the overall message that has been sent regarding the lack of trust, sound decision making, and foresight being displayed by the platform, real or imagined. It paints a really bad image of the entire community, not just Canonical.
51 • conspiracies and prognostications (by Cecil the Prophet on 2019-06-26 07:55:46 GMT from Greece)
"Snap trickery"- Who are they trying to trick with their "hellish" snaps? Let me in on the conspiracy, please.
"they do get paid but they waste our money on failures on phones" Not mine. In many years using Ubuntu and offspring, they have exactly $0 of my money. Hard to keep money gained by giving away something for free.
"Microsoft couldn't have hoped for a more effective blow against a rival" -What century are you in? Ubuntu is no more Microsoft's rival than my pet cat is mine. Ubuntu is available from the MS Store, and the LTS release can be downloaded from MS pre-configured for Hyper-v.
I'll go out on a short limb and predict that Ubuntu will be doing fine 2 years from now, evewn 3. I'll also predict that the usual complainers will still be complaining about the same, or something else. As Roseanne Roseannadanna used to say: There's always something.
52 • @50--Tremendous insight: what's wrong with Linux. You'd better listen... (by R. Cain on 2019-06-26 11:34:55 GMT from United States)
@50 --"...*Nobody is going to want to support a platform that is willing to randomly make decisions that will effectively break your software and waste your time and money in the process*..."
"...The Year of Linux is the year that you look at your distribution, compare to the year before, and you have that sense of stability, the knowledge that no matter what you do, you can rely on your operating system. Which is definitely not the case today. If anything, the issues are worsening and multiplying..."
"...I find the lack of consistency to be the public enemy no. 1 in the open-source world. In the long run, it will be the one deciding factor that will determine the success of Linux. Sure, applications, but if the operating system is not transparent, people will not choose it. They will seek simpler, possibly less glamorous, but ultimately more stable solutions,.."
53 • Dropping 32-bits, Conspiracies & a True Story (by not a fan-boy on 2019-06-26 12:01:50 GMT from Romania)
it is smart? - I don't think so, but I suppose there's not many guys out there who can do the work, so is not EFFICIENT to be maintained...
Ubuntu is a knights in shining armor! They didn't screw up, it's the evil MS empire doing...
I needed a drill, but didn't want to spend money, so I concocted a Franken-Drill from some spare parts I had laying around. Sure, is not as good as a professional-power-tool, but it cost nothing and can do the job.
(I think that now I'm a RIVAL of the professional-power-tool manufacturer, just as Linux Distributions are for MS...)
I use Linux, distributions & Android, just like, sometimes I use a knife instead of a screwdriver...
I'm not saying they are bad, just that are not that good, and too bloated with useless junk...
54 • Nut jobs. (by Garon on 2019-06-26 14:19:34 GMT from United States)
#51 got it right. A lot of people never post on Distrowatch unless it to complain about something, or to talk about how this is the death of the Linux distro. It's funny in a way because you can see that all over the world people are, shall we say, a little unhinged. Some here are even talking about how Microsoft is now doing everything right. lol People need to get a grip on reality.
55 • @51 (by Dr. E.S. Ktorp on 2019-06-26 14:24:41 GMT from United States)
"Who are they trying to trick..?"
56 • amazing, clear, succinct (by Jordan on 2019-06-26 14:24:46 GMT from United States)
You're going to get plagiarized, of course. Well, at least copy/pasted. ;o)
57 • Motivation (by Somewhat Reticent on 2019-06-26 14:38:07 GMT from United States)
@50 "… Nobody is going to want to support a platform that is willing to randomly make decisions that will effectively break your software and
waste take your time and money in the process. …" except, of course, those who profit from non-standard/proprietary hardware and software. Like business sponsors/customers, right?
Bounties for Freed OSSw, OTOH …
58 • Tremendous insight, death and trickery (by Cecil the Prophet on 2019-06-26 15:37:13 GMT from Greece)
In the thirteen-plus years I've been using Linux, I don't think a year has gone by without several articles with tremendous insight either announcing the death of desktop Linux or it's final triumph and the obliteration of the Redmond bugaboo. Yet Linux keeps plodding along and doing fine, and I'm enjoying it today as much or more than ever. I expect I'll be enjoying it for some years to come, and it will go on when I'm gone. Grow or perish is for those who are slaves to shareholders.
Seems I've been tricked, according to @51. Perhaps he's right. I get snappy about little things, and my foggy mind forgets that there are such things as Arch, Debian, PCLInuxOS, Solus, Mageia, MX, and hundreds more that can free me from Ubuntu's insidious grasp. So I go snapping along, oblivious.
When Microsoft labored and brought forth Windows 8, it could have been disastrous, because every PC sold would have that incomprehensible-to-most-users thing on the desktop. When Ubuntu moved on from Gnome 2, those who didn't like it moved on to other desktops. No need to panic, although some did, as now. I expect it will be the same with 32-bit and snaps, including the panic attacks.
59 • "Linux drops 32 bit" (by 64 bit since 2003 on 2019-06-26 18:19:09 GMT from United States)
What took so long? That effort and energy will be redirected to useful things now. MSFT's insistence on backward compatibility has made their stack more than a bit of a mess. You want that too?
Steam on Linux users affected? I'm sure both of them will be up in arms.
60 • @59 64 bit: (by dragonmouth on 2019-06-26 20:48:11 GMT from United States)
"That effort and energy will be redirected to useful things now. "
More re-spins of Ubuntu. :-)
61 • 'buntus.. 32 bit dropped.. etc.. (by Jordan on 2019-06-27 00:57:31 GMT from United States)
@the whole place :oD ... the arguments on both sides of the 32 bit support dwindling off debate are persuasive and compelling. I'd feel selfish if I adopted the stance of 32 bit not being needed any longer because I and most Linux users have 64 bit machines and use this or that app to help run 32 but games etc. So I am of the mind to call it slow evolution, as evolution of all types is.. so slow that the creatures of each period know very little to nothing of the changes in store, functionally. We know of it, of course, but how many of us really are affected to much of a degree at all? I think the 32 bit folks will survive/adapt as that's the way of the world, that's the way things are. No god needed.
The multitude of Ubuntu sock puppets out there began to make me come around to the understanding that it must be just about the easiest thing to jump into, as to developing a distro; thus the proliferation. I did wonder about repository upkeep, but then dropped that curiosity for the reason that I have never nor ever will run any 'buntu distro.
But I'm still glad they're doing it because the more in the Linux world the merrier as to exposure.
62 • @23, 24, 25: Clear Linux on AMD (by R O on 2019-06-27 03:12:54 GMT from United States)
I ran the Intel scipt for compatibility testing on my Dell Inspiron 7xxx notebook with an AMD Ryzen 5, and matching GPU, and the script declares the machine capable of running Clear Linux, so maybe I will give it a shot. ;-}
smpboot: CPU0: AMD Ryzen 5 2500U with Radeon Vega Mobile Gfx (family: 0x17, model: 0x11, stepping: 0x0)
Checking if host is capable of running Clear Linux* OS
SUCCESS: 64-bit CPU (lm)
SUCCESS: Supplemental Streaming SIMD Extensions 3 (ssse3)
SUCCESS: Streaming SIMD Extensions v4.1 (sse4_1)
SUCCESS: Streaming SIMD Extensions v4.2 (sse4_2)
SUCCESS: Advanced Encryption Standard instruction set (aes)
SUCCESS: Carry-less Multiplication extensions (pclmulqdq)
SUCCESS: EFI firmware
63 • The games developers would adhere to Ubuntu, anyway (by OstroL on 2019-06-27 10:06:37 GMT from Poland)
There's only two real OS platforms for game developers, Windows and Ubuntu, so te games developers would adhere in time. Sure, Android is there, but that's different story.
64 • @61, Sock puppetry (by Kermit on 2019-06-27 11:57:30 GMT from United Kingdom)
@ 61, Arch is also spawning a few, and Manjaro may end up being "sock puppet" master to Arch, as Ubuntu is to Debian. They don't get much play on the stats pages, but there are 20 active Arch-based distros on DW's list. Manjaro has several community editions, and Archman, based more directly on Arch, also has several editions. Not complaining. Just observing. I like Archman's Plasma edition, and their DDE is quite good for those who want to run it nearer the cutting edge now that Deepin has gone to Debian Stable.
65 • All the hair-pulling over 32-bit (by Style99 on 2019-06-27 13:36:05 GMT from United States)
This is pretty hilarious considering this is just a lot of shrieking over literally nothing. I guess the fanatics and Windows shills are getting desperate to try and drive people away from Ubuntu.
66 • 32 bit (by Lupus on 2019-06-27 14:48:09 GMT from Germany)
The amount of entitlement is hilarious. If You want 32 bit work for it.
They even include the perfect tool to be using old software, Snaps. Quit your whining
67 • @65: (by dragonmouth on 2019-06-27 15:32:42 GMT from United States)
" drive people away from Ubuntu."
You've hit the nail on the head! It's all a big, nefarious conspiracy to drive people away from Ubuntu. I think you'd better make sure your there is no leaks in your tin foil hat. Canonical is doing a bang up job of driving people away without any help..
68 • 32bit (by Jessica on 2019-06-27 17:33:11 GMT from United States)
Yup the future of Gaming is dead. Linux droping 32bit support kills gaming. Kills it dead and flat. Even if you could get steam working in a snap it would be a pain and so would app images. It could work like how the competitor Itch.io does it using an app.image or some thing. Sure they could say screw Ubuntu and push there users to use Debian or bring back Steam OS 3.0. That will kill gaming on Ubuntu and kill Ubuntu as a whole. @ 65 && 66 are examples of people who don't work in the real world. Your school is not going to dump there CAD software because it is 32bit that is just stupid and yes your stupid. 32bit compatibility is why gamers use Windows in the first place.
With Windows you can run both 32bit games and even 16bit games. You two guys are dumb. Who is going to remake old Games just so YOU can have a 64bit system? @65 are YOU going to pay AVGN to remake his whole game for 64bit! That is your solution as you are taking away our software that I paid for. In my mind you are stealing my games that I paid for so YOU and Ubuntu should cover ALL THE COSTS to make all the packages 64bit. Otherwise what Ubuntu is doing is what we in America call criminal FRAUD! You are stealing software that I paid for with MY cash and I want to use what I PAID FOR. The same for every Bank or plant that needs 32bit to funchtion. They should all sue Chanonicle for theft! There are still companies who order custom motherboards for ISA to use on there SCADA cotrolers like IRAN. There were many banks that still used OS/2 until 2011 when the last one switched over to Linux from Ecomestation. Not every one is like you. Linux is suppost to bring Open Source to EVERYONE! This is just proff why Dems should stay out of FOSS. Go back to screaching about Trump on Reddit you blue check mark fraud!
69 • 32 bit (by Josef on 2019-06-27 20:16:43 GMT from New Zealand)
Come January 2038, 32-bit will run into a small 'problem', right?
Just as you don't expect 16-bit or 8-bit support any more, 32-bit must inevitably join the parade of history. Scary thought - someday 64-bit will face this too. I wonder how many bits the bus will be wide at that point, or will we have moved to something so completely different that today's computers will be considered as early calculators are now?
70 • bits of confusion (by Triburcio on 2019-06-28 00:34:06 GMT from United States)
Is it the end of 32-bit? What is the cause? Is it a plot by Ubuntu to force snaps on the unwilling, as @40 says? Is it fanatics and Windows shills trying to drive us away from Ubuntu, as @65 claims? Or worse, is it Dems screaching about Trump on Reddit that are responsible, as per @68? Now I'm really confused.
71 • bits & bobs (by lilybits on 2019-06-28 04:01:19 GMT from Australia)
@70 Isn't it all just progress: faster, smaller, broader, bigger, newer::
* DDR4 RAM
* USB 3.0
* DP 2.0
And resources can only be applied to one or a few things at a time, so some things need to be left behind - like 8, 16, and probly 32bit.
72 • bits &bobs, @71 (by Triburcio on 2019-06-28 08:19:13 GMT from United States)
"faster, smaller, broader, bigger, newer::" Well, that's good to know, although it sounds like an American car commercial pre-Arab oil embargo: "Longer, lower, wider." So it's not a cabal of do-gooders making sure no one has any fun? Although it's not really a world-as-you-know ending crisis anyhow, like the iPhone notch.
73 • @69 January 2038 = the end of 32-bit (by too old to matter on 2019-06-28 12:27:54 GMT from France)
“Come January 2038, 32-bit will run into a small 'problem, right?”
That’s 18 years & 6 months from now, right?
Man, this Ubuntu guys are real thoughtful, they know what’s good for the user and want to spare them the pain, right?
I don’t really care about Ubuntu, because I don't use it. So what Ubuntu drops 32-bit? It will be just like when Ubuntu adopted “sistemd”, nobody else done it, right?
74 • resources (by Jordan on 2019-06-28 14:59:46 GMT from United States)
"And resources can only be applied to one or a few things at a time, so some things need to be left behind - like 8, 16, and probly 32bit."
Please describe these "resources," as applied to the notion of choices wrt 32/64 bit (and software that allows for 32 bit gaming etc on 64 bit machines).
75 • Steam should support more distros (by Dxvid on 2019-06-28 18:37:13 GMT from Sweden)
If Steam is going to stop supporting Ubuntu ONLY like they do for no good reason, this is pretty great as Steam/Valve might then open their eyes and realize there's plenty of other distros.
Because Steam had the stupid idea of only supporting Ubuntu, other distros had to circumvent problems caused by this poor choice and create and maintain this package:
Steam users on Ubuntu are free to switch to another distro, Ubuntu isn't the only one. I for example play games on OpenSUSE Leap in Steam with the official NVIDIA drivers without encountering any problems:
76 • former Clear Linux supporter (by TeNiRei on 2019-06-29 00:02:43 GMT from United States)
Clear Linux performance gains aren't worth the hassle of dealing with installation and maintenance, using the odd "bundle" system via "swupd". Not only does the system force you to use bundles by cutting off access to packages entirely, but the total number of system bundles is capped! Yes, because of the "stateless" OS, the devs have to manage bundles as a finite/fixed resource.
To make matters worse, due to this limit, devs are understandably very reluctant when evaluating requests for adding a package or repo. If a Flatpak exists for your requested package, you will be told to use it, whether its optimized for Intel or not. When the entire point of Clear Linux is optimized performance, this can make you go "huh?"
That is until you realize the point of Clear Linux is NOT performance. It is a infrastructure and container management OS first, and a desktop development platform way, way down the list.
Looking for a drop in replacement for Gentoo, Arch or Debian? Keep looking, Clear is not the answer.
Number of Comments: 76
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|• Issue 843 (2019-12-02): Obarun 2019.11.02, Bluestar 5.3.6, using special characters on the command line, Fedora plans to disable empty passwords, FreeBSD's quarterly status report|
|• Issue 842 (2019-11-25): SolydXK 10, System Adminstration Ethics book review, Debian continues init diversity debate, Google upstreaming Android kernel patches|
|• Issue 841 (2019-11-18): Emmabuntus DE3-1.00, changing keys in a keyboard layout, Debian phasing out Python 2 and voting on init diversity, Slackware gets unofficial updated live media|
|• Issue 840 (2019-11-11): Fedora 31, monitoring user activity, Fedora working to improve Python performance, FreeBSD gets faster networking|
|• Issue 839 (2019-11-04): MX 19, manipulating PDFs, Ubuntu plans features for 20.04, Fedora 29 nears EOL, Netrunner drops Manjaro-based edition|
|• Issue 838 (2019-10-28): Xubuntu 19.10, how init and service managers work together, DragonFly BSD provides emergency mode for HAMMER, Xfce team plans 4.16|
|• Issue 837 (2019-10-21): CentOS 8.0-1905, Trident finds a new base, Debian plans firewall changes, 15 years of Fedora, how to merge directories|
|• Issue 836 (2019-10-14): Archman 2019.09, Haiku improves ARM support, Project Trident shifting base OS, Unix turns 50|
|• Issue 835 (2019-10-07): Isotop, Mazon OS and, KduxOS, examples of using the find command, Mint's System Reports becomes proactive, Solus updates its desktops|
|• Issue 834 (2019-09-30): FreedomBox "Buster", CentOS gains a rolling release, Librem 5 phones shipping, Redcore updates its package manager|
|• Issue 833 (2019-09-23): Redcore Linux 1908, why Linux distros are free, Ubuntu making list of 32-bit software to keep, Richard M Stallman steps down from FSF leadership|
|• Issue 832 (2019-09-16): BlackWeb 1.2, checking for Wayland session and applications, Fedora to use nftables in firewalld, OpenBSD disables DoH in Firefox|
|• Issue 831 (2019-09-09): Adélie Linux 1.0 beta, using ffmpeg, awk and renice, Mint and elementary improvements, PureOS and Manjaro updates|
|• Issue 930 (2019-09-02): deepin 15.11, working with AppArmor profiles, elementary OS gets new greeter, exFAT support coming to Linux kernel|
|• Issue 829 (2019-08-26): EndeavourOS 2019.07.15, Drauger OS 7.4.1, finding the licenses of kernel modules, NetBSD gets Wayland application, GhostBSD changes base repo|
|• Issue 828 (2019-08-19): AcademiX 2.2, concerns with non-free firmware, UBports working on Unity8, Fedora unveils new EPEL channel, FreeBSD phasing out GCC|
|• Issue 827 (2019-08-12): Q4OS, finding files on the disk, Ubuntu works on ZFS, Haiku improves performance, OSDisc shutting down|
|• Issue 826 (2019-08-05): Quick looks at Resilient, PrimeOS, and BlueLight, flagship distros for desktops,Manjaro introduces new package manager|
|• Issue 825 (2019-07-29): Endless OS 3.6, UBports 16.04, gNewSense maintainer stepping down, Fedora developrs discuss optimizations, Project Trident launches stable branch|
|• Issue 824 (2019-07-22): Hexagon OS 1.0, Mageia publishes updated media, Fedora unveils Fedora CoreOS, managing disk usage with quotas|
|• Issue 823 (2019-07-15): Debian 10, finding 32-bit packages on a 64-bit system, Will Cooke discusses Ubuntu's desktop, IBM finalizes purchase of Red Hat|
|• Issue 822 (2019-07-08): Mageia 7, running development branches of distros, Mint team considers Snap, UBports to address Google account access|
|• Issue 821 (2019-07-01): OpenMandriva 4.0, Ubuntu's plan for 32-bit packages, Fedora Workstation improvements, DragonFly BSD's smaller kernel memory|
|• Issue 820 (2019-06-24): Clear Linux and Guix System 1.0.1, running Android applications using Anbox, Zorin partners with Star Labs, Red Hat explains networking bug, Ubuntu considers no longer updating 32-bit packages|
|• Issue 819 (2019-06-17): OS108 and Venom, renaming multiple files, checking live USB integrity, working with Fedora's Modularity, Ubuntu replacing Chromium package with snap|
|• Issue 818 (2019-06-10): openSUSE 15.1, improving boot times, FreeBSD's status report, DragonFly BSD reduces install media size|
|• Issue 817 (2019-06-03): Manjaro 18.0.4, Ubuntu Security Podcast, new Linux laptops from Dell and System76, Entroware Apollo|
|• Issue 816 (2019-05-27): Red Hat Enterprise Linux 8.0, creating firewall rules, Antergos shuts down, Matthew Miller answers questions about Fedora|
|• Issue 815 (2019-05-20): Sabayon 19.03, Clear Linux's developer features, Red Hat explains MDS flaws, an overview of mobile distro options|
|• Issue 814 (2019-05-13): Fedora 30, distributions publish Firefox fixes, CentOS publishes roadmap to 8.0, Debian plans to use Wayland by default|
|• Issue 813 (2019-05-06): ROSA R11, MX seeks help with systemd-shim, FreeBSD tests unified package management, interview with Gael Duval|
|• Issue 812 (2019-04-29): Ubuntu MATE 19.04, setting up a SOCKS web proxy, Scientific Linux discontinued, Red Hat takes over Java LTS support|
|• Issue 811 (2019-04-22): Alpine 3.9.2, rsync examples, Ubuntu working on ZFS support, Debian elects new Project Leader, Obarun releases S6 tools|
|• Issue 810 (2019-04-15): SolydXK 201902, Bedrock Linux 0.7.2, Fedora phasing out Python 2, NetBSD gets virtual machine monitor|
|• Issue 809 (2019-04-08): PCLinuxOS 2019.02, installing Falkon and problems with portable packages, Mint offers daily build previews, Ubuntu speeds up Snap packages|
|• Issue 808 (2019-04-01): Solus 4.0, security benefits and drawbacks to using a live distro, Gentoo gets GNOME ports working without systemd, Redox OS update|
|• Issue 807 (2019-03-25): Pardus 17.5, finding out which user changed a file, new Budgie features, a tool for browsing FreeBSD's sysctl values|
|• Issue 806 (2019-03-18): Kubuntu vs KDE neon, Nitrux's znx, notes on Debian's election, SUSE becomes an independent entity|
|• Issue 805 (2019-03-11): EasyOS 1.0, managing background services, Devuan team debates machine ID file, Ubuntu Studio works to remain an Ubuntu Community Edition|
|• Issue 804 (2019-03-04): Condres OS 19.02, securely erasing hard drives, new UBports devices coming in 2019, Devuan to host first conference|
|• Issue 803 (2019-02-25): Septor 2019, preventing windows from stealing focus, NetBSD and Nitrux experiment with virtual machines, pfSense upgrading to FreeBSD 12 base|
|• Issue 802 (2019-02-18): Slontoo 18.07.1, NetBSD tests newer compiler, Fedora packaging Deepin desktop, changes in Ubuntu Studio|
|• Issue 801 (2019-02-11): Project Trident 18.12, the meaning of status symbols in top, FreeBSD Foundation lists ongoing projects, Plasma Mobile team answers questions|
|• Issue 800 (2019-02-04): FreeNAS 11.2, using Ubuntu Studio software as an add-on, Nitrux developing znx, matching operating systems to file systems|
|• Issue 799 (2019-01-28): KaOS 2018.12, Linux Basics For Hackers, Debian 10 enters freeze, Ubuntu publishes new version for IoT devices|
|• Issue 798 (2019-01-21): Sculpt OS 18.09, picking a location for swap space, Solus team plans ahead, Fedora trying to get a better user count|
|• Issue 797 (2019-01-14): Reborn OS 2018.11.28, TinyPaw-Linux 1.3, dealing with processes which make the desktop unresponsive, Debian testing Secure Boot support|
|• Issue 796 (2019-01-07): FreeBSD 12.0, Peppermint releases ISO update, picking the best distro of 2018, roundtable interview with Debian, Fedora and elementary developers|
|• Issue 795 (2018-12-24): Running a Pinebook, interview with Bedrock founder, Alpine being ported to RISC-V, Librem 5 dev-kits shipped|
|• Issue 794 (2018-12-17): Void 20181111, avoiding software bloat, improvements to HAMMER2, getting application overview in GNOME Shell|
|• Issue 793 (2018-12-10): openSUSE Tumbleweed, finding non-free packages, Debian migrates to usrmerge, Hyperbola gets FSF approval|
|• Issue 792 (2018-1203): GhostBSD 18.10, when to use swap space, DragonFly BSD's wireless support, Fedora planning to pause development schedule|
|• Issue 791 (2018-11-26): Haiku R1 Beta1, default passwords on live media, Slax and Kodachi update their media, dual booting DragonFly BSD on EFI|
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