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1 • About "QA: Will dual booting with another distribution slow down my computer? " (by LiuYan on 2018-12-24 04:02:07 GMT from China)
Keep in mind that if your disk is hard disk drive, it *could* be slower on the secondary OS (or accessing data which located in the inner tracks on disk platters)
2 • Pinebook's OS choices (by dave esktorp on 2018-12-24 04:41:16 GMT from United States)
I knew they were gonna make goofy OS choices. KDE Neon isn't bad but it's pretty far from the top of my list for that sort of hardware. The touchpad is like those on the crappy new logitech wireless keyboards (emulating a mouse, that is).
They should've used Alpine Linux. Obvious decision.
Still looks neat.
3 • @1 : about slow 2nd OS (by Mahmoud Slamah on 2018-12-24 06:28:47 GMT from Saudi Arabia)
Can you elaborate this point { it *could* be slower on the secondary OS } , you meaning if HDD it dependent on physical tracks i.e where data stored , supposed to be same situation for all OS's which uses same and/or different file systems , so need more info .
Thanks
4 • Reply to @3 (by LiuYan on 2018-12-24 08:08:54 GMT from China)
Hi, @Mahmoud Slamah
Yes, I do mean the speed/performance depend on the physical tracks where the data stored.
And it's not necessarily be the second or third OS which usually (but not always) occupy inner tracks that could cause them be slower, but accessing any data located in the inner tracks on disk platters will be a little bit slower than accessing outer tracks.
Sorry for my previous ambiguous expression.
5 • Pinebook Review (by Amar on 2018-12-24 08:24:42 GMT from India)
Thanks for the detailed review for the pinebook, and interesting notes on the results for different distros. While the concerns about hardware are valid, for the price point, it *could* make a good secondary or even tertiary laptop. ...
6 • MX init system (by a on 2018-12-24 10:59:15 GMT from France)
I find it strange and unfortunate that nowhere on the MX Linux web site, or in this announcement, is mentionned the fact that they use sysvinit. This is the only thing that would make me consider using MX Linux as opposed to a better known and better supported distro.
7 • Pinebook-*exactly* what I / we need. (by R. Cain on 2018-12-24 12:02:13 GMT from United States)
The candor and openness of the Pinebook's developers are refreshing in this day and age. From the pages of both (11.6" and 14") Pinebooks--
"We do not wish to discourage anyone... but if you’re looking for a device to replace your current work or school laptop, then perhaps it’s wise to look elsewhere."
There's a place for everything. Mr. Bodnar's in-depth review was also very refreshing, and pointed up the fact that the Pinebook, as it exists right now, is *exactly* what one family member--who needs a machine to ONLY read and send emails--needs. At $99.00, this is a no-brainer.
The only tough decision now--since discovering it after accessing Pinebook's website--is whether or not to get the 14" model (at $99.00 also), for better readabilty.
8 • MX Init System (by Jules on 2018-12-24 12:35:31 GMT from Netherlands)
@6 MX uses Sysvinit. MX works like a dream....https://mxlinux.org/wiki/help-files/mx-faqs
9 • Pinebook (by Jim on 2018-12-24 12:54:04 GMT from United States)
While I have no plans to buy or use a Pinebook, I am happy to see a low cost option for a Linux machine. Still waiting for a low cost Linux full-size Laptop of Desktop that competes with low cost Windows machines (all I can afford). As of now I buy refurbished laptops and install my choice of Linux based OS's.
While I keep my home directory on my root partition I don't think having a separate partition is that big a deal with the large size of hard drives these days.
10 • @10 (by Christian on 2018-12-24 13:01:16 GMT from Brazil)
Yes it shows systemd on the package list, however, above that list, there's a table that includes init software and it shows sysv.
11 • Pinebook (by dragonmouth on 2018-12-24 13:22:00 GMT from United States)
I am taking a wait-and-see approach to Pinebook. I would not be surprised that, in the process of smoothing out the rough edges, a price creep will occur. By the time Pinebooks become usable by average users, it will be cheaper to buy a refurbished laptop and install Linux on it.
12 • Pinebook (by Wine Curmudgeon on 2018-12-24 13:56:12 GMT from United States)
The netbook returns!!! The review brought back fond memories of my Asus eee 901. But the sound did work, and my eyes were a bit younger.
13 • home directory (by stillnoar on 2018-12-24 13:59:41 GMT from United States)
Like @10, I always keep /root and /home together. Reason, because when the time comes that I am ready for a new distro (or even upgrade), the /home is so full of chaff from use that it would need a fine tooth comb to go through it and freshen it up. Easier to just start fresh with the new OS. And as for dual(+) times - usually my dual boots are very different OSs, and change more frequently, so I don't want to cross contaminate anything. As a compromise, I do generally keep a 'data' partition to keep non OS related subjects to be made avaialable to any OS I unstall. Has worked for me.
14 • @7 (by Quan on 2018-12-24 14:04:04 GMT from United States)
Hi R. Cain,
One way to help decide which one to get is to visit a local store like Best Buy, and check oout the 11.6 model and see if it works for you.
I like the small size too, but my eyes are no longer young. Hence the suggestion.
15 • Pinebook sound on mainline kernels (by Pikolo on 2018-12-24 14:51:09 GMT from Poland)
Are there any updates on when sound on Pinebook will work on mainline kernels? Having the miniDP adapter work is nice, but sound is more important. Any links to this bug being tracked would be appreciated.
16 • 11 inch laptop (by Tim on 2018-12-24 16:33:04 GMT from United States)
I'd be interested in a Pinebook- I like the 11 inch laptop form factor.
Another great option in this size is a retired school chromebook like an HP 11 G3. They go for about 50 bucks and are intel based.
The excellent program Crouton lets you install various Linuxes in a chroot, and thereby giving it pretty much the functionality of any other Linux laptop. I've had good luck with Ubuntu 16.04 and the Xfce desktop. Debian Buster also was good.
The only thing that I don't love is that these don't have much internal memory. But they do have SD card slots, so that overcomes the problem well enough for me.
17 • Home/root partition (by Friar Tux on 2018-12-24 16:46:50 GMT from Canada)
I'm with comment 13 (stilnoar) on this one. I keep it all in the root partition and when I upgrade the OS (or switch OS's) I just transfer over my Documents, Pictures, Music, etc. folders. That way, as stillnoar said, you get rid of the 'chaff'. It's a way of housecleaning my laptop from time to time. Now if I could just do that with my actual house...
18 • Pinebook and dual booting (by cykodrone on 2018-12-24 16:53:27 GMT from Canada)
The Pinebook looks cool, and I actually want one, but it's so hard to trust anything from China now. Those who keep up with tech news will know what I am talking about. For those who don't know, KDE Neon is a fork of Kubuntu.
Dual booting is better with two separate drives, it's just so much cleaner and easier, and you can have two separate boot loaders, if one drive crashes, you are still good to go. People that boot a bare metal OS and then boot another in VM, obviously that would tax the system a little more.
19 • home and root partitions (by Christian on 2018-12-24 17:33:59 GMT from Brazil)
I keep the home and root on the same partition. However, I have a "Files" partition where I keep "Documents", "Pictures", "Downloads" etc. I create soft links to these folders on the actual home partition. This way, I keep all my files synced between my distros (I currently triple boot Peppermint, Neon and Fedora) and one install doesn't impact the other. I just have to make sure the partition is mounted during startup.
This way I can comfortably test new distros or move around the ones I already have, keeping all my files easily accessible.
20 • pinebook, neon #18 (by Marcus on 2018-12-24 17:41:54 GMT from France)
If you don't trust China you're not gonna do too well at getting much of anything, at least for a while. Just about every electronic gadget available is made there, including the big brands.
Neon is not a fork of Kubuntu. It's the latest KDE software on Ubuntu LTS.
21 • Pinebook .mp3 player (by Trihexagonal on 2018-12-24 18:00:05 GMT from Canada)
The Pinebook will never replace my Thinkpads but with a 11.6" footprint, a sizable SD card and a decent pair of lightweight headphones at $99 that would make a really nice .mp3 player IMO.
I use a Thinkpad X61 running FreeBSD for mine. It has a a similar footprint and does nothing but sit by my recliner and play music. I have a shot of it at the FreeBSD forums I just took a couple days ago.
22 • Some questions about the Pinebook? (by Dojnow on 2018-12-24 18:06:20 GMT from Bulgaria)
How many RAM is used by KDE Neon and the other tried distributions? Is it a reliable notebook as the warranty is only 30 days?! What is the battery life? Thanks to Ladislav Bodnar for the interesting Feature Story.
23 • MX-Linux DEFINITELY DOES NOT USE 'systemd'; but they make it hard to tell... (by R. Cain on 2018-12-24 18:53:42 GMT from United States)
@ #6
If you choose MX-Linux from DistroWatch's 'Page Hit Rankings (it's now #1 ), you'll find
"Init Software SysV"
in the information section.
*********************************************
It is mentioned on the website; it's just buried. Under “Support” on the MX home page, select “MX/antiX Wiki >
MX/antiX Technical Documentation Wiki > [" > " means "select"]
Technical Documentation AntiX FAQs >
MX Linux FAQS >
[ TOPIC] "What's the deal with MX and systemd? How come there are still systemd packages installed?...
[Answer] "Systemd is included by default but not enabled. For more information see the Users Manual Section 1.7 and the WIki article." [select "Wiki article" (hyperlink)]--
"...MX Linux ships with systemd present but disabled by default. The MX Linux team strongly urges users to remain with this configuration which uses sysvinit instead. This page simply provides information for those interested in the question....
"...Enabling systemd
When the GRUB screen is displayed on MX-17, click on Advanced options... and select to use systemd.
********************************************************************
Someone needs to tell the MX-Linux Organization that this is ridiculous; that they need to MAKE THEIR REJECTION OF 'systemd' A MAJOR POINT IN ADVANCING MX-LINUX.
24 • Two-partitions-or-one asks (by Flavio Roseiro Cavalcanti on 2018-12-24 19:28:14 GMT from Brazil)
I am using a 25 GiB partition for each distro's Root, and also a separate 25 GiB partition for each distro's Home.
I am doing so for 2 years now, and have installed about 20 or 25 distros.
I have noted that:
1) openSUSE would be better with a 50 GiB root partition, as officially recommended, because of its snapshots.
2) Slackware and Arch could have 30+ GiB root partitions, too.
3) Most of my 25 /home partitions are almost empty, because I have separate data partitions.
4) Just Mint /home partition is used for Timeshift backups ─ personal option of mine ─ and in this case, yes, /home could have more than 25 GiB.
25 • Some questions about the Pinebook? (by Dojnow on 2018-12-24 22:20:20 GMT from Bulgaria)
How many RAM is used by KDE Neon and the other tried distributions? Is it a reliable notebook as the warranty is only 30 days?! What is the battery life? Thanks to Ladislav Bodnar for the interesting Feature Story.
26 • Photoprint (by John O on 2018-12-24 23:31:48 GMT from United States)
I used MX linux until photoprint was broken (not able to be installed) . That issue still has not been fixed.
I really loved MX until that problem hit .
27 • Pinebook keyboard (by Glenn on 2018-12-24 23:58:33 GMT from New Zealand)
That keyboard looks like a cross between a UK keyboard layout, where it is normal to have the pipe symbol to the right of the left-shift key, and regular US keyboard where quote and pipe symbols are accessible on the right-hand side using right-shift. Being a regular user of both layouts I would just use the pipe key on the left but that's a horrible choice to require three-keys for quote marks. It's definitely off-putting.
That said I've just realised I'm currently using a UK wireless keyboard on a US based laptop and I haven't bothered switching the key mapping around as I don't really need the GBP pound symbol. It means the "@#|~\ keys are all up the wazoo but I almost never notice. I suppose you just get used to what you're using pretty quickly.
Apart from that, this sort of thing is exactly what I was looking for a few years ago as an additional tool for work. Don't care about performance or gaming - just wanted something LIGHT but with a proper OS, screen and keyboard. Perfect to pick up and take with me to plug into a router or switch in another building nearby. When you're also carrying tools, spare cables, power supplies, various adaptors, printouts, my regular workhorse laptop started feeling really too heavy if I just needed a simple RS232 terminal.
They'd stopped selling Netbooks by the time I wanted one lol.
28 • Pinebook: might consider buying it if I was constantly on the run (by Brenton Horne on 2018-12-25 01:18:17 GMT from Australia)
I have a tendency to favour large, bulky, but powerful PCs over small and lightweight laptops, but if I was on the run more I probably would get a small and lightweight PC, although I would probably favour those using x86-64, as there's more distros that support it. I would only favour it over a tablet or smartphone because I'm hoping the keyboard would be easier for me to use than one on a touchscreen. Of course, given this review and the fact it uses ARM I'd probably avoid the Pinebook like the plague and stick to laptops that may come with Windows pre-installed.
Btw KDE Plasma 5 (KP5) is not the heaviest DE anymore, that title has moved to GNOME/Unity, as KP5 is significantly lighter on RAM than its predecessor KDE Plasma 4 and GNOME. In my experience it tends to use ~ half that of GNOME. Despite this, on such weak hardware I'd probably stick to MATE, or even better i3. I must admit I kind of dislike LXDE and LXQt; LXDE is ugly by default (on vanilla distros like Arch) and difficult to make look anything better than ugly, LXQt is buggy, heavier than LXDE and was fairly non-customizable last time I used it.
29 • @26, MX and Photoprint (by The Grinch on 2018-12-25 01:21:54 GMT from United States)
Doubt your wish will be granted. Photoprint has not been maintained for a few years and has old dependencies. It was removed from Debian repos after Jessie (oldstable). MX is based on Stretch.
30 • Pinebook keyboard is a clinic in bad design (by CS on 2018-12-25 06:30:57 GMT from United States)
A keyboard where you have to do an awkward three-finger salute to type a quotation mark???
And a Linux-oriented system where you need to contort your fingers to type a pipe symbol?
WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?????
It would have been simple to look at a picture of the MacBook Air 11" keyboard to realize they didn't need to drop keys from the qwerty or asdf rows to wind up in this absurdly unusable situation. Mind blowing!
31 • Also... (by CS on 2018-12-25 06:40:01 GMT from United States)
"This disqualifies all computers built by the established manufacturers as they are extremely careful not to irritate the software giant by shipping Linux (quelle horreur!) on their machines. "
This is misinformation. As for laptops, The Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition ships with Ubuntu Linux pre-installed.
All established manufacturers also offer Linux pre-installed on their server gear and Microsoft doesn't give a toss. The truth is the market for Linux laptops is too small for most vendors to care.
32 • @30 (by Rob on 2018-12-25 06:43:28 GMT from France)
You gets what you pays for.
33 • Not a barrel of fine wine... (by R. Cain on 2018-12-25 09:16:30 GMT from United States)
@ 30
I'm glad somebody finally said this.
I'm surprised there hasn't been more comments. Every time I thought about this, I couldn't help but remember that old question-and-answer: "What do you get when you add a teacup of sewage to a barrel of fine wine? A barrel of sewage, of course."
The Pinebook group had to *WORK at* getting this aspect of the design this wrong and this bad; and that's what makes it so hard to understand. The Pine group had only to duplicate the keyboard design one of the better-selling laptops, or--better yet--after-market keyboards.They're trying to break into an over-crowded market to begin with, and then go and *design*--actually DESIGN, build, and write the firmware for-- a totally non-standard keyboard?! *Incredibly* stupid.
This is, otherwise, a really good piece of hardware (for comparison, one of my Linux notebooks has a *single-core* 1.2 GHz Atom CPU and 2GB of memory, and it works extremely well).
There are probably a *lot* of people who will not put up with the aggravation caused by this ridiculous design decision--even at $99.00.
Why'd you do this, Pinebook? How many have you not sold because of this?
34 • My unbranded ARM netbook from 2012 (by K.U. on 2018-12-25 13:35:46 GMT from Finland)
Linux capable ARM laptops have existed at least since 2012. I found mine at that year - and the one I bought was not the only choice back then. They were all Android devices but searches revealed that it was possible to Install a Linux distribution on them. I have now Q4OS installed on my device, and I am happy to report that it is a very good OS for my unbranded armhf device with Allwinner A10 processor and 1 GB memory.
Here is what I needed for succesful install:
- Q4OS image from Alex Goldcheid's images for Berryboot
- Berryboot A10 for Allwinner devices
- To get sound working I needed to follow the advice from the Linux SunXi website (just copy a config file from there).
35 • @33: (by dragonmouth on 2018-12-25 13:45:33 GMT from United States)
They were getting into a crowded market and did not want to compete on price alone. One way to stand out (maybe) in the market is to be different in some way. Pine group chose the keyboard. It has turned into a "WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?!" decision.
36 • on a pinebook.... (by tom joad on 2018-12-25 17:42:27 GMT from Israel)
As with many polls there is a category that I feel was left out. In this case...'I am a wait and see.' I like the concept as per the review. I see a lot of potential in the project down the road if. If the project stays together and continues to evolve. If they can hold a very low price point. If the machine proves to be readily usable on the road. If, if, if. We have seen many projects come and go over time. An exception is System 76. However at the price point of $100 I am guessing it will be difficult for Pinebook to stick around and hold that price point. Maybe, and hopefully, they can.
So at this point I am a wait and see while doing some research on the project.
37 • @13,17,19 Seperate home partition, tiny computers (by Ron on 2018-12-25 18:44:32 GMT from United States)
Merry Christmas all.
I totally agree with keeping my /home on the root partition.
Once, a long time ago I tried /home on a separate partition and at first it seemed to work well.
Then, later I realized that different distros and different apps like to muck around in your /home,
especially all those hidden . files. They have their own peculiarities that will make you sorry you ever thought about commingling /home and several distros.
What I do is not worry about overwriting /home. No, I have a portable USB drive I use to rsync my entire internal drive for backup - /home and all. I do not keep this drive in the same room as the computer. If heaven forbid a robber snatches my computer with files, I have the portable drive safely hidden elsewhere.
Tiny computers that cause eye strain and cramped muscles make as much sense as using a flashlight to read a book!
Ron
38 • pinebbok (by piece b2u on 2018-12-25 22:17:15 GMT from Australia)
The pinebook concept is great. But confining it to one board (pine64) is too limiting. It would be even better if it was designed to work with a variety of boards and PC sticks (some of which even have more than 2GB RAM). That way it would be like a lightweight netbook shell that you could carry around with you to plug-and-boot both arm and intel devices.
39 • mucky homes and tiny toys, @37 (by User3 on 2018-12-26 01:32:33 GMT from France)
You can avoid all the mucking around /home by assorted distros if you have a different user name for each.
The problem with the Pinebook is not size (You can have it at 14"), it's the price point. You can only do or get so much with bargain basement expectations. Then your final cost may not be so bargain basement after all. Ladislav didn't mention , but there may be shipping, and maybe customs. I see no miracle of engineering. I can get an off-brand x86 laptop with much better specs, with the Windows up-charge included for less than $200 USD, delivered. Ain't the Chinese wizards!!?? To The Pinebook guys credit, they do tell you it's not suited for all comers. For those interested, there are other Pinebook reviews out there. Google is your friend.
40 • mucky homes and tiny toys, @37 (by User3 on 2018-12-26 01:32:33 GMT from France)
You can avoid all the mucking around /home by assorted distros if you have a different user name for each.i
The problem with the Pinebook is not size (You can have it at 14"), it's the price point. You can only do or get so much with bargain basement expectations. Then your final cost may not be so bargain basement after all. Ladislav didn't mention , but there may be shipping, and maybe customs. I see no miracle of engineering. I can get an off-brand x86 laptop with much better specs, with the Windows up-charge included for less than $200 USD, delivered. Ain't the Chinese wizards!!?? To The Pinebook guys credit, they do tell you it's not suited for all comers. For those interested, there are other Pinebook reviews out there. Google is your friend.
41 • Pinebook (by massysett on 2018-12-26 04:01:49 GMT from United States)
Maybe someone would want this thing but it seems to me that a used Thinkpad is a much better deal: Intel chip so any distro will run on it, and a far superior keyboard. Used Thinkpads are easy to get—probably easier than the Pinebook.
42 • Lubuntu dropping 32-bit support (by Simon on 2018-12-26 05:34:04 GMT from Europe)
Anyone remember when Lubuntu announced they would switch to LXQt from LXDE? While it took them quite a while, they did just that. Then this year(?) they announced they wouldn't focus so much on supporting lower-end hardware.... Now they are dropping 32-bit support completely. Lubuntu just became what it never was meant to be; they stopped catering to the needs of the very audience they wanted to target. "To hell with the reason Lubuntu was created; we're going another way!"
What's next? Lubuntu switches to Gnome or some other unusable bloatware of a desktop? Dropping keyboard support?
Sad times.
43 • @42, Lubuntu (by Marcus on 2018-12-26 08:49:26 GMT from France)
Nostalgia might be nice sometimes. I have an iso of Lubuntu 10.04 somewhere. But I also recall this: "As support for the i386, i486, i586 chipsets (VIA C3, AMD K6, National Semiconductor and AMD Geode) has been dropped from both the kernel and GCC by Ubuntu from the 10.10 series onwards, you can choose this version for older hardware." As Mark Twain supposedly said: History may not repeat itself, but it often rhymes.
44 • Shame about the keyboard (by Null on 2018-12-26 12:59:38 GMT from United States)
I'd really love a no-blobs laptop like the Pinebook (without having to go the Thinkpad X200 route), but the keyboard kills it. I may just send them a $10 tip and hope for a future model.
45 • Elive (by maconulaff on 2018-12-26 16:33:40 GMT from United States)
Shame.....
Elive 3.0.3, an updated build of the project's desktop-oriented Linux distribution based on Debian 7 "Wheezy"
Wheezy left LTS in May 2018. Another update to an already out of date distro.
Really Elive - update to a current version of Debian and I would gladly take another look, but building it on an already dead version of Debian is almost negligent.
46 • home directory (by wramby on 2018-12-26 17:29:38 GMT from United States)
After many migrations of my home directory data (doc's, pdf's mp3's etc) to a NAS so I could try a new distro I figured out the process to mount my NAS share to a folder in my home directory and put the commands in a file on my NAS. I save all my data to that folder. Now whenever I install a new distro, I open that file, follow the commands and never have to go through the migration blues.
47 • The Pinebook, antiX v. 17.3, MX-Linux v. 17.1, and 'systemd'. (by R. Cain on 2018-12-27 04:43:21 GMT from United States)
@ #6
"I find it strange and unfortunate that nowhere on the MX Linux web site, or in this announcement, is mentionned the fact that they use sysvinit..."
DistroWatch, under 'Latest News and Updates' (home page) has just listed the release of antiX version 17.3. The development of antiX and MX-Linux are closely intertwined, both having their 'roots' in the original Mepis distribution.
In the antiX 'release announcements' (hyperlink in DW's 'new distro' announcement), antiX *explicitly* mentions "...no systemd..." at least seven times.
antiX (-"base"), at 680 MB download, would be a superb OS for the Pinebook. For that matter, so would 'antiX-full', at 1000 MB; and MX-Linux 17.1, at 1200 MB.
48 • PINEBOOK (by edccoolio on 2018-12-27 05:01:48 GMT from United States)
I voted that I wanted one, but frankly, I would only take it if it was close to free.
Three fingers to hit the "quotation button"?! I don't think so.
Added hassle on a Linux (yes, Linux) laptop to hit the pipe key?! Insult to injury.
On top of all of this is the seemingly unending supply of dirt cheap used laptops on the 'bay with far superior specs, upgradeability, and x86 instruction sets. Even a cheapo Core2Duo with SSD and 4GB RAM would be far superior to the Pinebook and still able to run "any" modern Linux distro or even Windows 10 if needed.
I'm rooting for them, I really am. However, I feel bad for the makers of Pinebook. In the final analysis this seems a complete dead-end.
Personally, I predict that 6 months after purchasing a Pinebook, it will be as if I threw $100 in the back of my closet, never to be seen again. Knowing this, I think I'll just keep the cash.
I hope that maybe the next version will correct some of the more glaring flaws.
49 • @47 - antiX and systemd (difference from MX) (by Hoos on 2018-12-27 05:11:18 GMT from Singapore)
"In the antiX 'release announcements' (hyperlink in DW's 'new distro' announcement), antiX *explicitly* mentions "...no systemd..." at least seven times. "
That's because antiX and MX take different approaches to not using systemd.
MX - sysV is used as the init; systemd is not enabled. However, MX is not systemd-packages-free. Some systemd packages are found in the distro, but they use a systemd-shim package to address programs that have a systemd dependency.
antiX - Uses sysV. Maintains its own nosystemd repo for certain packages, no usage of systemd-shim. Can be said to be systemd-packages-free.
Users therefore have a choice between the MX and antiX approach when it comes to not wanting to rely on systemd as the init manager in their system.
50 • The Trick to Shared Partitions & Multi-Booting (by M.Z. on 2018-12-27 22:55:45 GMT from United States)
@37
"...Then, later I realized that different distros and different apps like to muck around in your /home,
especially all those hidden . files."
Personally, I've take to running a /data partition linked to all my home folders on all the distros i multi-boot. I think #19 above did a similar thing with one named 'files', but my guess is that it is basically the same.
The basic process is laid out here:
https://www.linuxtoday.com/blog/2009/08/painless-linux.html
I just re-did it recently on an LMDE 3 install that has a nice new Btrfs partition for it's /root & timeshift to back up the core OS, while it & Mageia both connect to /data so I can get to all my music & other files from either. The biggest issue was making sure to go into the menu & install LMDE 3 via Calamares so I could get Timeshift to work properly with Btrfs. I really like how little space Btrfs takes up compared to rsync & the snapshots are so quick & easy it's not really even noticeable, at least compared to rsync.
Anyway, my multi-booting all works very well & no distro ever sees the hidden .dot files that set configurations from another.
51 • My experiences (by Joe N on 2018-12-28 07:57:27 GMT from Slovenia)
@Ladislav You missed the most polished OS, with spartan but highly effective XFCE, for Pinebook :) Since resources are not a luxury on this HW, this is very important! I could not wait to delete (nice but slow and bulky) KDE Neon and put https://www.armbian.com/pinebook-a64i
Only then it start to become really usable. I used 1st version of this Laptop for a month as a daily driver, with Armbian ofc, even my main laptop is latest Dell XPS 13 (with stock Debian) which represent an extreme comparison. Since most of my work is CLI/Term with light browsing, this doesn't make any problem. If you use this device for serious stuff is more than enough. Battery last. You certainly don't need all the junk and modernity that are implemented in latest mainstream linux distros.
52 • Think Penguin laptop 5 years still going strong (by James on 2018-12-28 10:06:54 GMT from New Zealand)
Just a quick note to say that my Think Penguin laptop (Core i7, 16GB RAM, 1920 res) still going strong after 5 years on a multiboot with Ubuntu, Fedora and Debian. They're based off a chinese company called Clevo but built to ensure that they run common linux distros.
Eventually I'll run this headless and add it into my home server network for file storage or some other purpose.
53 • MX systemd (by James Jamrs Morrison Morrison on 2018-12-28 21:44:23 GMT from United Kingdom)
I have enabled permanent systemd on my MX because when I use Vokoscreen, which always crashes the computer when I use sysvinit.
I really cannot see any advantage to sysvinit nor why everyone is getting in a flap about it!
54 • @53 systemd (by MikeOh Shark on 2018-12-29 00:11:30 GMT from Finland)
@53, it's not so much the boot that causes people to object to systemd. It's the way systemd keeps taking on more of the operating system functions and breaking things that work. For example, systemd-resolve takes over DNS and I don't know what broke the old way of changing the ioscheduler.
55 • A Vocal Minority (by M.Z. on 2018-12-29 01:17:30 GMT from United States)
@53
Don't get that started. It's like with the US NRA only getting 5% of voters as a member of their organization, but they are loud enough to have a veto on many single votes in the US congress.
The moral of the story is that a loud & energized minority that are strongly against something can suck all the energy out of what should be a sensible conversation which would otherwise be able to reach reasonable conclusions.
I can't see why people arn't happy that they have a choice of distros that have whatever init they want, but boy if you say it they bring a whole list of grievances & gripes about how it's not exactly their way & trot out a lot of arguments based on the slippery slope fallacy.
Poking that hornets nest only leads to a lot of meaningless & very angry buzzing.
56 • MX or antiX on a Pinebook? Not at the moment (by Steve Pusser on 2018-12-29 01:40:55 GMT from United States)
MX lead packager here..the trouble is that both distros' custom packages are for 32 and 64-bit x86 systems only. I've tried to set up armhf and arm64 cross compiling environments with pbuilder and QEMU on MX, and while that worked on a Jessie base, it seems to be broken (at least for me and a couple others that have tried) on a Stretch base.
A workaround would be to build those packages on the openSUSE build service for those Debian Stretch architectures, which does work, but I don't know anything about actually creating an arm64 distro without the actual hardware...and we'd need more help, since MX developers are all unpaid hobbyist volunteers.
57 • 'systemd' (by R. Cain on 2018-12-29 03:33:15 GMT from United States)
One of the problems with getting involved in the 'systemd' thingie is that one has to have been, if not involved from the start, then at least have been following along, and be *somewhat* aware of what has transpired.
Fortunately the internet provides a reliable 'paper trail', and it is strongly suggested that people who have strong feelings either way do some searching and reading to back up their opinions.
Some--but by NO means, all--suggested reading:
1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd
2) https://www.networkworld.com/article/2175826/software/linus-torvalds-suspends-key-linux-developer.html
3) http://www.ocsmag.com/2016/10/19/systemd-progress-through-complexity/
4) https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/ubuntu-no-reboot.html
5) https://plus.google.com/+TheodoreTso/posts/4W6rrMMvhWU :
(“...one of the reasons why this happens is because +Kay Sievers and +Lennart Poettering [creators of systemd] often have the same response style to criticisms as the +GNOME developers --- go away, you're clueless, we know better than you, and besides, we have commit privs and you don't, so go away...”)
6) https://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/04/05/torvalds_sievers_dust_up/
58 • /root & /home (by Someguy on 2018-12-29 08:35:37 GMT from United Kingdom)
No.37 has it in a nutshell. Separating these directories into separate partitions is a recipe for future chaos. Too many changes between versions, sometimes even 'point' upgrades. Don't do it - you will regret it. Only caveat: unless you have the consummate skills, dexterity and infinite patience of Jesse!
59 • Not sure why the caveat (by Marcos Pereira de Sousa on 2018-12-29 09:20:10 GMT from Brazil)
Sorry, but to me, the caveat only reinforce the "Don't do it" - Who has those qualities don't do silly things that never work. May be my english?
That advice is precious when the recipient is a noob.
60 • @58, root and home partitions (by Marcus on 2018-12-29 10:16:24 GMT from France)
I'm scratching my head in puzzlement. I've kept separate partitions since many years ago, and I don't see what chaos you are talking about. Any changes between versions will affect your system no matter where your home is. On the contrary, it's easier to recover from a borked system (as I have done quite a few times due to too much tinkering) with separate /home partition. Reformatting root and leaving home partition alone will get you back to the same settings you previously had. I don't know about you, but I spend a bit of time getting my desktops the way I like them. Installing applications after system reinstall usually takes little time, and everything comes back just as I left it. I have done this more times than I remember over the years with no ill effects and little need for patience.
Using the same partition for multiple systems is not a good idea if you repeat the same user name. Your feared .dot files will be all screwed up, to use a technical term.:) However, if you have different user names, each will be in it's own folder, and will not interfere with the others. (/home/alpha, /home/beta and so on. To remove a particular distro from the /home partition one simply deletes that folder after deleting or reinstalling on it's root partition. Other distros are untouched. Easy as pie.
61 • Pinebook(s) and ARM ditchers (by meanpt on 2018-12-29 18:46:43 GMT from Portugal)
More soon than later even all lappies and servers will work only with ARM or any other type of a RISC architecture. Most probably even intel will start shipping some kind of RISC processors as the world of computing is rapidly moving towards the mobility and the parallel processing paradigms but I guess it's too late now and the intel's implosion already started. So, for the sake of linux, its users and developers, all the distros and apps should be ported and/or compiled to these new architectures asap.
62 • Two OSs, one hard drive (by Jordan on 2018-12-29 19:42:16 GMT from United States)
Windows 10 alongside Manjaro 18 as an experiment. No slowdown but I don't like this set up much. I feel like my linux car has an overweight, smelly, selfish hitchhiker.
Probably kick him out at some point soon.
63 • 62 Two OSs (by Rupert on 2018-12-30 02:05:02 GMT from Canada)
Yeah. I know. I don't like Manjaro either.
64 • Question mark (by Gustavo on 2018-12-30 13:54:32 GMT from Brazil)
Doesn´t "RIGHT ALT+W" work as a question mark key? This is what I use on my compact keyboard and with most notebooks.
65 • The Pinebook. (by R. Cain on 2018-12-30 16:33:39 GMT from United States)
"There is a time and a place for everything"--anonymous.
I just purchased a name-brand laptop (on 'after-Christmas' sale) for $124.99: 32 GB eMMC; 4 GB RAM; great battery life; poor display; dual-core 1.6 GHz CPU; rational keyboard; Win10 (I'll return it if I can't remove Win10 and install Linux).
Sales like this are instructive for demonstrating exactly what the real cost of something is--or what you can get it for if you wait long enough.
Having done this, I *also* ordered (entered the 'queue' for) the Pinebook: a device which is much lighter; has an _outstanding_ battery life and ridiculously good display; and is to be used by a person who only uses it as a "smart terminal". Perhaps the keyboard 'problem' will have been resolved by the time I move to the front of the line.
*********************
@56 ("MX or antiX on a Pinebook? Not at the moment"); @49 ("antiX and systemd (difference from MX")--
Many thanks for the expert-class comments expanding on these important points,
66 • @61 Porting/Compiling Linux Distros to ARM (by Rev_Don on 2018-12-30 20:59:18 GMT from United States)
"So, for the sake of linux, its users and developers, all the distros and apps should be ported and/or compiled to these new architectures asap."
If you feel that strongly about that then you need to donate your time into making that happen. And while you are at it, donate some Arm based hardware to distro developers and software maintainers so that they can actually make that happen.
67 • #66 • @61 Porting/Compiling Linux Distros to ARM (by R. Cain on 2018-12-31 16:13:47 GMT from United States)
One can, and probably should, consider a monetary donation.
Most people don't have the skill sets to donate developmental help, although most all distributions are very vocal about needing help with translation into other languages. There are a lot of tangible ways to support Linux ("donating" $99 to Pinebook--and getting something you can/WILL use in return--seems like a "win-win" situation to me, and one that doesn't occur to a lot of people).
And you probably don't have the hardware to donate; if you did, and unless it were new, with all the new documentation and supporting hardware, a donation of hardware would not be of much benefit.
Send money. Linux depends on it.
68 • @67 (by Rev_Don on 2018-12-31 21:16:06 GMT from United States)
True enough. The main point is to donate what you have and are capable of if you believe in something.
69 • Desktop Linux & Donations (by M.Z. on 2018-12-31 22:40:55 GMT from United States)
@67
"Send money. Linux depends on it."
Utterly false, just look at the 2.9 Billion in US $ in revenue that was made by Red Hat in 20017, or as yourself how much money Google is generating off of Android (powered by Linux). The truth is that something of Linux will remain regardless of your donation, but there are huge caveats.
Certain desktop Linux projects are truly in need of donations & projects like Mint & PCLinuxOS that put Linux on your desktop & create a vibrant & competitive marketplace of Linux ideas are certainly in need of your support. We could all hang off the largess/GPL rules of open source companies like Red Hat & hope that incidental improvements in projects they support like Fedora & CentOS will give us a 'good enough' experience on the Linux desktop, or we can try to find ways to support the projects we care about.
Something of Linux will be there regardless of direct personal support, but it would be a far less rich desktop experience if projects like Mint do't get the resources needed to raise the bar & create something better with every release.
70 • SEND MONEY. LINUX DEPENDS ON IT. (by R. Cain on 2019-01-01 00:32:33 GMT from United States)
@69--
You started out by saying that my statement, “Send money. Linux depends on it” is, to quote you, **“Utterly false...”**.
And then, you proceed to reinforce, lend credibility to, and validate my premise with the following extensive verbiage---
”...something of Linux will remain regardless of your donation, **but there are huge caveats**...”
"...Certain desktop Linux projects are truly in need of donations [, and] projects...that put Linux on your desktop & create a vibrant & competitive marketplace of Linux ideas are certainly in need of your support...”
”...we can try to find ways to support the projects we care about...”
”...Something of Linux will be there regardless of direct personal support, but it would be a far less rich desktop experience if projects...do't get the resources needed to raise the bar & create something better with every release.”
I wholeheartedly agree with all the points you raise; they are *very good examples* of why one should “send money” in support of Linux (everyone knows that the inclusion of Red Hat and Google here is simply a ‘red herring’, possibly used only to justify the "Utterly false" statement). What I don’t understand is your opening salvo, followed by nothing but complete assent and agreement with my original premise. Perhaps a course in Aristotelian logic is indicated?
As Mark Twain said,
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.
71 • Please send money, please, please!!! (by Ephectic on 2019-01-01 01:21:32 GMT from France)
Judging by the common reaction on Linux users forums to anyone charging for software, and the usual disdain for those who make money selling it, the credo must be "To sell is evil. To beg is honorable." And kindly leave dead philosophers to lie quietly in their graves. Last week Friar Ockham. This week Aristotle. Who's next? Zorba? Friar Tuck?
72 • Linux, pay or not (by Jordan on 2019-01-01 18:28:49 GMT from United States)
Linux has its commercial distros. Has free in more than one definition of tree, as well.
What's the hassle about here? Do what you like, pay what you like. Leave the others be.
73 • Linux is Far Bigger Than its Desktop (by M.Z. on 2019-01-01 18:49:36 GMT from United States)
@70
"What I don’t understand..."
What's so mysterious about Linux being huge in servers & on mobile & tiny on the desktop? Linux will survive & thrive regardless of it's existence on the desktop.
The important part to desktop users is 1) don't kid yourself into thinking your desktop use is everything in the Linux world & 2) you have the opportunity that the GPL creates to leverage all the work done elsewhere into great community based projects that do great on the desktop, if you support them properly.
This means that "Linux could die without your support" is a shallow, alarmist, & poorly thought-out statement. On the other hand "Desktop Linux needs your support to go anywhere" is fairly true at most every level.
74 • Lightweight and midweight distros? (by Ben Myers on 2019-01-01 19:44:55 GMT from Canada)
Developers characterize their distros as lightweight or midweight or whatever. In talking about the "weight" of a distro, are we talking about the diestop management software and little else? Help me understand. What else in the spin of a distro contributes to its weightiness or lack of weight? Add a little helium, perhaps?
75 • #74 Lightweight and midweight distros? (by anticapitalista on 2019-01-01 22:03:29 GMT from Greece)
It's very easy really.
They refer to the CPU and RAM usage of the distro, not the size of the iso download.
Some distros boot to a gui desktop (Xfce) with c300MB RAM, CPU - 0.3%, while others boot to the same desktop using over 600 MB RAM and c10% CPU.
Also, some distros use much less RAM and CPU by using a different desktop environment or windows manger.
76 • @74 • Lightweight and midweight distros? (by Rev_Don on 2019-01-02 02:30:06 GMT from United States)
It also has as much to do with how the DE is configured as it does which DE is used. If the developer enables all of the bells and whistles and poorly optimizes it a distro can easily utilize three or more times as much memory and cpu cycles as one that doesn't. KDE for example can easily be configured to be one of the lightest DEs or one of the heaviest.
77 • Lightweight and midweight distros? (by R. Cain on 2019-01-02 23:24:49 GMT from United States)
@74 :
"What else in the spin of a distro contributes to its weightiness or lack of weight?"
DistroWatch's 'Opinions' talked about 'bloat' a short while ago. Usually, but not always, weightiness is due to the developer's piling on more and more 'features' in order to placate us users who demand a new distribution every six months--and in fear of being viewed as having an inferior product--or being an inferior developer--, compared to other distributions which, of course, are in the process of piling on more and more 'features', because they are afraid of...
Somewhat refreshingly, the Number One distribution in DistroWatch's Page Hit Rankings is one which does not follow the herd: MX-Linux. It is not only #1 on DistroWatch (1/2/2019), but has been chosen as the best overall Linux distribution of 2018, and has had, for a very long time, the best score of any Linux distribution in DW's Distro Review Ratings--9.4 from 510 reviews.
MX-Linux 17.1 (the version chosen as Best of the Year; version 18.0 was just announced in December), is a 1200 MB download, and is completely full-featured, as is MX-Linux 18.0. See--
https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/best-distro-2018.html
A truly light-weight distribution is antiX (#5 on DW), a close cousin of MX-Linux. antiX 17.2-full is a 950 MB download; antiX 17.2-base is a 620 MB download.
78 • Lubuntu 32/64 (by mchlbk on 2019-01-04 16:27:20 GMT from Denmark)
@42
Lubuntu 18.04 uses LXDE and runs on 32 bit and will be maintained for many years.
Of you have old 32-bit hardware you don't need a cutting edge OS anyway. Just stay with 18.04.
79 • @ 78 • Lubuntu 32/64 (by Ostro on 2019-01-05 17:06:33 GMT from Poland)
That's the last Lubuntu with LXDE, you'd see, the next Lubuntu being a bloated one.
80 • Pinebook keyboard (by Simon on 2019-01-06 03:06:53 GMT from New Zealand)
What a bizarre decision, to require multiple shift keys to type a symbol as common as the quotation mark! This alone is a deal-breaker for me: it would be a continually annoying distraction, significantly slowing down my work (which involves lots of quotation), so there's no way I'd buy this laptop. Presumably the laptop's designers have little interest in typing, but it's astonishing that they didn't ask touch typists to test it or offer feedback on the design, before committing to manufacture and sales. I'll keep an eye on future models: when they release one with a sane keyboard design I might be interested.
81 • Post # 78 (by Winchester on 2019-01-06 17:18:05 GMT from United States)
That is jumping aboard a sinking ship.
Maintained for less than 3 and a half more years,unless I am off there.
If you have 32-bit hardware,SliTAZ, OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, Gentoo, 4M Linux, Slackware,Void Linux or the beginner friendly Mageia are better options.
No announcements to end 32-bit support from the above distributions,as far as i am aware.
Just choose LXDE, MATE, XFCE, or simply a window manager.
Number of Comments: 81
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Status: Discontinued
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| TUXEDO |
TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite
Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
Learn more about our full service package and all benefits from buying at TUXEDO.
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| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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