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1 • Examining RAM consumption (by Vuk on 2018-11-05 00:26:00 GMT from Luxembourg)
There is great Python script called ps_mem (https://github.com/pixelb/ps_mem) that reports memory usage per application, it's in Arch official repos, but if you use other distros you will need to install it using Python package manger pip
2 • Steam and Proton (by john on 2018-11-05 00:28:02 GMT from Canada)
So glad to see Steam and Proton making such quick progress. I love linux and have been using it for years, so it's definitely nice to be able to fire up my big name games without having to switch to Winblows :-)
3 • Examining RAM consumption #2 (by Vuk on 2018-11-05 00:30:22 GMT from Luxembourg)
There is also tool for examining memory used by kernel: slabtop (part of procps-ng package on Arch).
sudo slabtop -s c
To show sorted by cache size
4 • 586 (by zim on 2018-11-05 00:30:31 GMT from United States)
regarding i586 support mentioned in this week's QnA, I checked the antiX forum and found this:
June 13, 2018 (dolphin_oracle replied) "unfortunately debian has dropped “586” architecture, when includes the K6-2 processor. You only option is to stick with jessie-based antiX 16"
5 • Architecture (by Jesse on 2018-11-05 01:03:35 GMT from Canada)
@4: You're right, modern versions of Debian (and its direct children) will not have support for i586 from Debian 9 onward. Thanks for bringing that up.
So the latest versions of Debian-based distributions will be limited to i686 and users with older processors are stuck on legacy releases if they want i586 compatibility.
6 • Solus (by hotdiggettydog on 2018-11-05 01:26:34 GMT from Asia/Pacific Region)
Sorry to hear about Solus troubles. Hopefully the Dev is ok and has not abandoned the project.
7 • Ikey Doherty, ibm-redhat (by saravanan on 2018-11-05 02:05:47 GMT from India)
Ikey Doherty:
You done so much contributions to solus. Let all be best for your(you and your family) future.
Ibm-redhat:
The truth is their `research works` as `partners` is going to continue as self-owned liable.
"shared vision or voice of one person( being recorded for someones purpose with no intentions of him in volunteering ) is always subject to market risk or even global risk".
8 • Red Hat (by Nathan on 2018-11-05 03:32:53 GMT from United States)
The positive is for IBM, which will have a stronger cloud presense with Red Hat fueling its *-as-a-service products. The negative is for us Linux users since Red Hat's contributions to the Linux desktop will likely wane. The consolation is that most of those contributions were to Gnome3, so whatever ;p
9 • F29, Doherty and IBM (by Brenton Horne on 2018-11-05 06:25:25 GMT from Australia)
Must admit I'm surprised F29 wasn't reviewed in this issue, but I suppose the latest release isn't too impressive, the most important change is probably modularity, and of course you's may need some more time to try it out before you're comfortable reviewing it. I'm actually typing this from a PC with Rawhide, Arch, Gentoo, Void and Tumbleweed installed on it, got to love the rollers!
I was surprised when Doherty wrote that letter; I would have thought he would have had enough warning that he'd soon have kids to focus on to say something to his other team members before disappearing from the net for almost two months. He gave many of us quite a fright by suddenly disappearing, especially since he did so after saying he felt sick (I actually thought he was dead, or at least gravely ill). I also thought he would have known about the need to focus on his kids back when he quit his job at Intel to focus on Solus. I suppose life is random, stuff happens and I'm sure he's doing his best.
Red Hat's acquisition by IBM is something I think has been blown out of proportion by so many Linux users. IBM's history, for the most part, shows that they love open-source, after all they've been contributing to the Linux kernel since before some of DistroWatch's readers were probably born (1998). CentOS and Fedora, while sponsored by Red Hat, I think could manage to go on independently of Red Hat, even if IBM decides to cut Red Hat's sponsorship of these projects, due to the massive communities behind them.
10 • 32bit stuff (by pengxuin on 2018-11-05 06:36:57 GMT from New Zealand)
Mageia certainly supports at least this aged processor:
$ lscpu
Architecture: i686
CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit
AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2400+
uname -r
4.14.70-desktop-2.mga6.
unfortunately, I do not have a i586 processor or earlier to confirm support.
sadly, it is more browsers and suchlike that no longer support 32bit hardware that are likely to speed their demise from desktop use.
11 • IBM-Redhat (by James on 2018-11-05 06:50:39 GMT from United States)
@9 - Yeah, Oracle loves open source too. They contribute to the kernel. Look how that turned out.
12 • Oracle (by Brenton Horne on 2018-11-05 07:19:48 GMT from Australia)
@11. Please educate me, how did that turn out? I honestly don't get what big negative thing happened. They contribute to open-source still, and they provide products that are first class like MySQL (even though many feared they would close source it, which is largely why MariaDB exists, and seems similar to this fear-mongering over Red Hat's acquisition), NetBeans (until they handed it to Apache, anyway), OpenJDK, Oracle Linux and ZFS. I suppose they stopped developing OpenSolaris, turning it into Solaris, although how that is such a bad thing is beyond me, it didn't seem all that important or popular. I've tried OpenIndiana, the closest open-source OS to OpenSolaris that is still maintained today, and it didn't exactly impress me.
In advance I'd like to say thank you for educating me with any follow up comments. :)
13 • Oracle, like I said before (by RJA on 2018-11-05 07:46:28 GMT from United States)
@12 and @11, I do understand how one of you are feeling, especially with Oracle's recent announcement threatening to ban people without a commercial license from even touching Java, period! The absurd license, is expected to go into effect in 2019 or 2020.
I wrote about that Java license again, because I had a typo. I felt like I was punched in the face or at least slapped in the face, because CHDK has a program written in Java, IIRC.
I wonder how many stuff will stop working, unless the software developers crack that whip?!
14 • Oracle (by James on 2018-11-05 08:10:44 GMT from United States)
@12 You seem already familiar with the myriad issues that arose in the open source community during the Oracle acquisition of Sun and enthusiastic about excusing them as mass hysteria, so there's no real sense in spoon feeding you just so you can sarcastically pretend that none of it ever happened. There's no arguing with apologists. Suffice to say there's very good reasons why ZFS on Linux, OpenIndiana, LibreOffice, MariaDB and Jenkins now exist. There's a reason why James Gosling, Tim Bray, and Bryan Cantrill all quit after the acquisition.
15 • @13 makes a great point (by Brenton Horne on 2018-11-05 08:22:01 GMT from Australia)
@14 @13 actually brought a point to my attention that does show me what significantly negative things Oracle have done. Making Java commercial is something that is serious enough for me to see your point. I was sincere in my request for education, @13 shows me a perfectly good reason to dislike Oracle. Thank you for showcasing what I like about the open-source community, they are quite informative to their fellow citizens, and I thank @13 for being a little more polite than @14; after all, I'm not your enemy mate.
16 • RH/IBM & Cloud (by Someguy on 2018-11-05 08:30:04 GMT from United Kingdom)
Regularly amazed how many folks don't realise that 'Cloud' means YOUR data, as well as apps, may be sitting on THEIR servers and all that entails! With all those last year's models of PCs being consigned to landfill, can only be indolence and/or ignorance preventing setting up personal server, especially as it can be sited remotely e.g. loft, garage, shed, w.h.y. still retaining full control.
17 • 32-bit: Q4OS, doesn't it support i386 and later? (by Brenton Horne on 2018-11-05 08:38:42 GMT from Australia)
Forgot to mention Q4OS, at least according to DistroWatch's entry (its website says 300 MHz is minimum processor requirements, I'm not sure what architecture that corresponds to), supports i386. Although as I've read Debian has dropped i386 as of release 9 this sounds like a temporary support situation.
18 • Big IT acquisitions (by jan on 2018-11-05 09:28:43 GMT from Poland)
I tend to keep a positive view of IBM's buying up of REDHAT, if only because IBM seems to be a rival to MSFT. But I would feel much better if actually REDHAT acquired IBM...
But, I installed Xbuntu 18.10 and started to review system settings and there we go - a nice Gnome/Redhat invention (probably government sponsored) - the magnificent GEOCLUE piece of s... which without asking your permission and without notification of any kind, sends out your exact location to anyone or any app that asks for it. Nice, very nice - so after all, good riddance, REDHAT, you are now, for better or worse, one of those who tell their (former) friends - sorry, guys, nothing personal, just business.
19 • AntiX i486 Kernel (by frisbee on 2018-11-05 09:33:55 GMT from Switzerland)
I've no idea where do you "specialists" get your informations from.
https://ibb.co/ehOs3L
http://antixlinux.com/4-17-4-kernels-available/
20 • IBM Red Hat (by Joe Blogger on 2018-11-05 12:08:25 GMT from United Kingdom)
I see it as a positive. When it comes to open source, IBM is one of those companies I believe truly backs it.
Which company kept Oracle in check when it came to Open Office and putting pressure on them to release it to the Apache Foundation?
Who is one of the Biggest contributers to the Apache Foundation? IBM.
IBM closing of Red Hat would damage them more than help them.
The way I see it is IBM needs Red Hat more than Red Hat needs IBM.
Not saying it can't happen, but I just don't see it likely IBM will just change their position now it as acquired Red Hat.
21 • Steam w/ Proton (by Johnatan on 2018-11-05 14:20:59 GMT from France)
I installed GTA III and GTA San Andreas on Steam Play on Linux, and the games run, except it's impossible to save.... No amount of reinstalling, restarting Steam or the machine helped. Also, no useful solution found online either.
It's useless. =(
22 • Proton (by Semiarticulate on 2018-11-05 14:58:06 GMT from United States)
It is impressive, just how quickly progress is being made on this project. I have but one system with one partition that hosts a Windows install for gaming. It is a thorn in my backside...a sliver in my mind...and I am about to eject it, uncerimoniously, from my OSS kingdom. Thank you, Valve!
23 • News > RH drop KDE (by Yuri on 2018-11-05 12:46:36 GMT from Russian Federation)
Hi.
Please explain, why RH has desided drop KDE?
And, it's mean drop KDE 4 or KDE as such?
24 • ghostbsd 18,10 (by s.ketelaar on 2018-11-05 15:33:35 GMT from Netherlands)
I was not able to get bluetooth working. Mij wifi did not function properly. I left this distro for these two reasons
25 • @23 (by frisbee on 2018-11-05 16:53:01 GMT from Switzerland)
Gnome3 is a problem, KDE Plasma is much bigger problem.
26 • Old hardware (by MisterB on 2018-11-05 17:02:38 GMT from Canada)
Maybe the best way to play around with older hardware is to use some old live distro from the early-mid 2000. Low ram need and legacy hardware support. But mileage may vary...
Check webpage like https://livecdlist.com/ to find some...
27 • re. GhostBSD & No.24 (by Sondar on 2018-11-05 18:26:47 GMT from United Kingdom)
The mainline GhostBSD runs in MATE 32bit and is fairly sound, but the Xfce is more suitable, especially for 32bit/older kit. However, although the 32bit Xfce version claims to be an 'installation' version at boot-up, it actually arrives in liveCD mode which is particularly convenient. As such the wifi can be set successfully. However, could not find how to set wi-fi after installation, without invoking all that nameserver nonsense from the CLI despite most folks now on DHCP. Hopefully just an oversight?
Notwithstanding, unless you've got an hour or two to spare installation of any GhostBSD version is somewhat protracted.
28 • 586 (by John McCue on 2018-11-05 23:56:59 GMT from Canada)
In regards to using OpenBSD/NetBSD on the 586, both will work fine, NetBSD seems to be a bit lighter. One thing that should have been mentioned, Both OpenBSD/NetBSD supports a 64 bit time_t on 32 bit machines, Linux no,
That means Net/Open will not have the 2038 issue on 32bit hardware
29 • @23 RH and KDE (by kc1di on 2018-11-06 11:22:31 GMT from United States)
People are panicking for no real reason here. I doubt many of you use RH 7 and KDE anyway.
All RH is saying is they will not offer support for KDE on their subscriptions after 2024. That could change but I doubt it. RH has long been a contributor to Gnome. KDE on their platform is not very popular in the business world.
KDE is it's own project and will continue and there is no reason someone using RH 7.x could not continue to use it, but they will not get support if it breaks. For that they are on their own.
As Far as is know right now Fedora KDE spin will still be available.
https://www.fudzilla.com/news/47522-red-hat-killing-off-kde
Don't get all out of sorts over this.
30 • @ 25 KDE Plasma is NOT a problem (by Jakis on 2018-11-06 11:28:34 GMT from Greece)
The Plasma desktop is getting better and better, together with Kwin eating less memory. Kwin had become just as snappy as Openbox. LXQT too is using parts of the Plasma DE.
31 • IBM and RedHat (by alex dumas on 2018-11-06 03:34:22 GMT from Australia)
I did some contracting for IBM in 2012, the notebook they issued me with came with Red Hat and LibreOffice (or was it OpenOffice?) installed. If I had wanted MS or MS Office (I didn't) I would have had to make a business case to get it. I think that augers well for this merger. I wonder what IBM will do with the appalling systemd?
32 • @30 KDE Plasma is NOT a problem (by Mike on 2018-11-06 14:33:36 GMT from Kenya)
I wholeheartedly agree with Jakis. KDE is getting better all the time, both in terms of resource use and ease-of-use!
33 • ghostbsd 18.10 live boot (by alotov on 2018-11-06 14:37:14 GMT from United States)
Wasnt able to get GSTBSD running in ether an old sony laptop or a more modern dell i7 laptop - graphic problems. Black screen on the dell and some error and backtrace on the sony -brilliant!!
34 • KDE (by Angel on 2018-11-06 14:46:52 GMT from Philippines)
I'll add my agreement. Switched to KDE a few months ago. Will be my desktop of choice for the foreseeable future.
35 • @30 KDE Plasma is not a problem, it' JUNK (by frisbee on 2018-11-06 14:54:05 GMT from Switzerland)
I hope we can agree at least on the following statements:
Average user is not a software developer and not a troubleshooter but, it's simply a USER (turns computer on, use it for whatever it's using it, turns computer off). User is USING, not developing and not repairing the OS, DE & SW.
For any kind of work on a computer, computer should simply do what it's made for (text application should write a text, backup application make recoverable backups etc.).
Right?
Simple task: open web browser and make a screenshot of the relevant part.
Plasma:
I created a new user account with imaginary user named "...el Lévy" on the latest Plasma to show you the following:
https://ibb.co/iomx5A
That ghost image showing a part of the start menu (bottom left) is not supposed to be there. The background is the relevant part which should show on that screenshot.
Gnome Shall / Wayland:
Same task one more time -- not more and not less but, taking a simple screenshot.
https://ibb.co/c3KH5A
I (== just a plain, simple, avarage user which needs a computer to make some job done) don't care why I can't make a screenshot. I'm not gonna fix the OS, I'm not gonna fix the DE nor I'm gonna rewrite some broken SW. I don't even care is it a SW, OS or DE -- I installed myself SOMETHING that offers me that SW in their own store. It's a developers job to make a product and test it before release, not mine to fix it afterwards.
I don't wanna borther with some JUNK, be it free or paid (Windows 7 & 10 Snipping Tool is also making that kind of ghost images over the screenshots! -- https://ibb.co/kdgmFA) as long as there are better working OS's with Cinnamon, XFCE and IceWM. See my list from last week.
I don't care why Firefox can't handle fonts properly, why Discover can't find SW that cmd can find, I don't care why RHEL suddenly looses it's partition and I don't care why SuSe auto updater kills the OS beyond a repair (BTRFS snapshots couln't recover it).
I care for my job to be done with least effort and I'm choosing and using a "known working".
Might be that Plasma ist getting better but, as of now, this very moment, "Gnome3 is a problem, KDE Plasma is much bigger problem."
36 • @35 (by Angel on 2018-11-06 17:29:48 GMT from Philippines)
I must be lucky, I guess. I use my PC to do stuff. Other than units I may be repairing or testing, any tinkering I do these days is limited to adjusting layouts, themes, sizes, colors, icons, etc. to my liking. In the time I used Gnome I had no problems with screenshots. I have had none with KDE-Plasma either, and even the Windows 10 snipping tool has been well-behaved. But thanks for the warnings, anyway.
37 • @35 (by RV on 2018-11-06 23:39:13 GMT from Romania)
You do realize you're not stating facts here, but mere opinions, right? Just because you found a bug in KDE doesn't mean anything. What's with the nastiness and the sense of entitlement? KDE is free and open source software that's being developed by people in their spare time with zero monetary incentive. Believe it or not, they don't owe you anything.
38 • @37 (by frisbee on 2018-11-07 10:00:51 GMT from Switzerland)
"You do realize you're not stating facts here..."
I am stating the fact that is not working properly. You can interpret it as 'opinion' but, it'll still not work better.
"Just because you found a bug in KDE doesn't mean anything."
If that would be the only bug ... YouTube-ers can maybe live with such bugs but, if screenshot taking is a big part of your job, then less so. It's individual.
"KDE is free and open source software that's being developed by people in their spare time with zero monetary incentive. Believe it or not, they don't owe you anything."
They don't need to owe me anything. I don't care if it's free or paid, as I don't care if an OS costs 0 (zero) or 200$ -- either it works or one takes something else that works -- so easy.
39 • @ 38 (by Lin on 2018-11-07 10:05:09 GMT from United States)
"They don't need to owe me anything. I don't care if it's free or paid, as I don't care if an OS costs 0 (zero) or 200$ -- either it works or one takes something else that works -- so easy."
The problem is you don't care.
We do care.
40 • @39 (by frisbee on 2018-11-07 11:46:56 GMT from Switzerland)
The fact that YOU (and some other "we"'s) take it only because it's free, interesets nobody and doesn't make it better so, please don't disscuss but, simply continue enjoying it.
You can also have a look what a guy WHICH LIKES KDE Plasma thinks of it:
http://www.ocsmag.com/2018/10/29/kde-apps-any-good/
41 • Post # 35 (by Winchester on 2018-11-07 12:30:45 GMT from United States)
I don't know which kind of FireFox that you are using but,my FireFox(es) handle fonts just fine.
Also,my OpenSUSE Tumbleweed installation is going fine other than a bad GRUB bootloader update. 64-bit version with LXQt.
The OpenSUSE OS still works fine,reached from another (less well known) Linux system's GRUB. I added a custom bootloader entry for OpenSUSE copied from SUSE's grub.cfg.
"zypper refresh" then "zypper update". Going strong for nearly 2 years.
Speaking of "losing a partition" , the only time that ever happened to me was with "known working" Linux Mint.
So,between that and a couple of other problems with the "known" Ubuntu family ..... I now avoid those in favor of other distributions which have worked better for me and my hardware. And many of those other distributions include faster received security patched software.
42 • @ 40 (by Pierre on 2018-11-07 12:50:41 GMT from United Kingdom)
I like Plasma desktop and I don't need to read what others sort of liking it. I am writing from a Plasma desktop.
Hint: if you don't like it, use some other desktop.
43 • @41 & @42 (by frisbee on 2018-11-07 14:10:53 GMT from Switzerland)
If you can't see it, doesn't mean that FireFox (60esr & 63) "handle fonts just fine".
Compare to Chrome (~imum). No need to say -- same fonts installed in all OS's.
https://ibb.co/eTmC8V
https://ibb.co/dfvuNq
https://ibb.co/idNKoV
https://ibb.co/jugtyV
https://ibb.co/kDK7QA
Depending on FF Version and OS Version, FireFox font rendering sucks more or less but, basically -- it's simply broke.
@42: As of your: "Hint: if you don't like it, use some other desktop." THANKS!!!
As I've already told you twice today ...
"... as long as there are better working OS's with Cinnamon, XFCE and IceWM."
"... either it works or one takes something else that works -- so easy."
... I am using KDE 'cause it's great.
Hint: Reading is more than simply recognizing the letters. ;)
44 • All Software Has Bugs... So What? (by M.Z. on 2018-11-07 20:20:16 GMT from United States)
How about we not troll against KDE? The simple fact of the matter is that all software has bugs, full stop, end of story. Raging against software for some bug or another doesn't prove your smarter than it's users, it just proves you do not know about the realities of software.
Take for instance how afraid smart software engineers & technically minded folks are of electronic voting:
https://www.xkcd.com/2030/
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/11/blockchain-based-elections-would-be-a-disaster-for-democracy/
No software is 100%, but good software teams mitigate bugs, and large numbers still exist. Hell just yesterday I was showing someone a workaround for a repeated failure in some basic ArcGIS scripting software that's been built in to that software for years. And FYI, ArcGIS is the world leader in GIS software with what I believe is something like 90% market share in GIS systems. Still, if you try to run something from ArcToolbox & experience repeated failures in ArcGIS Desktop, I recommend you rerun the exact same tool in ArcCatalog. I'd call that a weird & stupid bug, but I see stuff like that all the time is ArcGIS.
And lest you think 'how important is GIS, I've never really heard of that anyway', let me tell you that I've not only seen top US military & US government contractors using ArcGIS, & I know for a fact that at least some county emergency management centres in Florida are trying to use ArcGIS to enhance their 911 response systems & aid in emergency management operations. For all our problems down here we're hurricane central & we among the best in the world at emergency management, and we are still trying to use this buggy software for super important mission critical stuff in emergency management.
Frankly it's troubling when I think of how well aware everyone is of how buggy ArcGIS is if they use if for any serious length of time, and then I think of how this stuff still gets deployed in serious mission critical situations. To be clear, I think there are some very impressive aspects of ArcGIS & it's extremely powerful & useful software, but it's definitely got plenty of minor bugs & is used in very important situations. I wish there were a bug free open source alternative that could do everything ArcGIS does, but for whatever reason QGIS does seem widely used & everyone thinks ArcGIS is the best tool for the job.
That's the big bugly truth about a lot of technology, there are lots of bugs in most software & it still gets used in really important situations. There are bugs built into CPUs & cryptographic software & there are bus in critical Geographic Information Systems, & all Desktop Environments ever created.
I could care less about how many bugs you point out in software you don't like, if you don't present some systematic & objective study you're just spreading FUD. Indeed you may well be trying to shame someone for their openness about the realities of their bugs, while others have the same or worse situations & just don't let you see it. Take for example the explosion of stories entitled 'Florida Man Accused Of... [insert dumb action here]' after we passed all these sunshine laws. We forced all kinds of government information into the open in the name of good government, including arrest records. Now the whole world talks about us like we've got the worlds largest number of drunken idiots, when they really have nothing on us except the fact that we let them know what was really going on. Let's dig into the realities of the 'drunk & disorderly' arrest rates before acting like some place is the world centre of problems with stupid people.
By the same token, give me hard information about the rates of problems in alternate software solutions before you declare one to be 'Junk', or else I'll declare your opinion useless self serving FUD.
45 • @44 (by frisbee on 2018-11-07 22:57:42 GMT from Switzerland)
As for KDE and Gnome disaster, just read all of the related articles in the passt 5 or so years on dedoimedo.com and check how they developed. You could then easily do the same on a bunch of other sites too and you will find endless list of regressions and bugs that were not closed for many years. Progress seams to be a transparent Terminal background.
Hard informations you can also get yourself easily — use 10 years long different WM and DE in parallel, plus experience that you get throughout support of others and you‘ll see if mine or yours opinion is FUD. As said before, all of them have problems, but not all problems weight same.
As for „every SW has bugs“, I agree — something broken by design can‘t create something unbroken and since the people are writing it, the result, so buggy as it is, is actually much better then expected.
However, even if SW can never get completely bug free, it could be much better then it is. One calls it „evolution instead of revolution. One could invest 10 years in development and next 10 in testing of SW before release, but that way, it would be impossible to sell a new version every year. That this can happen, is another human failure.
I don‘t know if you still remember the food beeing thrown in See to keep the prices high while on the other side of the world, people are starving to death. Greed has no end and so, we‘ll never get a decent SW but at least, as long as there is still some „better“ and some „worse“ there‘s no reason to spend the time on „known not working“ ... except if it brings you money.
😉 🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂
46 • IBM & RHEL (by Gary W on 2018-11-08 02:53:09 GMT from Australia)
@31 IBM already said that Red Hat will be operated as an independent business unit. I'm sure systemd is near the bottom of their wishlist. I agree that systemd should be dumped, but that won't happen from IBM fiat. More likely a natural progression towards something new and better, or something old and better. So it's really up to us to endorse and use Devuan, antix, PCLinuxOS, or a BSD.
47 • @ 45 (by Pierre on 2018-11-08 08:16:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
"As for KDE and Gnome disaster, just read all of the related articles in the passt 5 or so years on dedoimedo.com..." blah, blah, blah...
How about we not trolling against DEs for Linux, eh? And, trying to link us to other websites? I like Plasma DE, period! You don't like Gnome or Plasma? Find another!
48 • @47 (by frisbee on 2018-11-08 09:22:46 GMT from Switzerland)
How about someone makes one really properly functional DE, so one doesn't have to notice all the quality issues (== trolling??) in the first place? ;)
And how about looking for other websites yourself? In the end, you have the problem -- I know what am I talking about and what I've said is the fact. If you don't trust me, look for more proofs yourself. ;)
https://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2015/10/some-thoughts-on-the-quality-of-plasma-5/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6mZGBEV7aY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um-OEl6b9N4
.......
.....
...
P.S. I never said that YOU shouldn't like KDE FOR YOURSELF and I never said that you should stop using it but, it'll generally not get any better just because you can live with all its problems. Period.
49 • @48 (by Angel on 2018-11-08 10:21:02 GMT from Philippines)
Not to try to rein in your tirade, but you are posting "evidence" in a blog from 2015. Around that time I was using Cinnamon, one of your faves. I remember the panel having to be restarted frequently, and some unknown app crashing with a cryptic message. This last was inherited from it's Gnome parent. I expect it's better by now. The videos you link to are also around 2 years old. In software, that's a long time.
You bitch about "greed" and good software costing much, but look at moneyed Microsoft's latest Windows offerings. Talk about bugs! Apple keeps it down by limiting hardware choice and third-party software on their OSes. Bugs, like that other smelly stuff, happen.
Just by the way, how does throwing out food on one side of the world contribute to people starving on the other side? Last I heard, food can grow on both sides. You planning to hire a fleet of canoes or a caravan of camels, or some such thing, to get the food transported?
There's a sane reason for keeping the price of food stable and profitable. If the farmers can't make a living, both sides off the world can starve. Here, rice farmers barely eke out a living, and only sometimes. As a result, in a country where rice is the main food staple, and which has the proper soil and climate, more and more rice needs to be imported.
Meanwhile I remain,
Happily using Plasma
50 • @49 (by frisbee on 2018-11-08 11:21:33 GMT from Switzerland)
Could you try to read first, please?
Above, @35: "I don't wanna borther with some junk, BE IT FREE OR PAID... as long as there are better working OS's..."
@48: "I never said that YOU shouldn't like KDE..."
Some bugs are just as old and still unresolved. Some got solved. Some new came in.
If I start writing a list of all the bugs, its gonna be uncorrect before I'm done writing it.
General impression and the fact that something is "unfinished" will stay.
By the way, the example https://ibb.co/iomx5A is pretty fresh.
The fact that Windows is not (or partially) free and its suboptimal is:
1. a proof that all that "agile SW developement" is a b...s..t
2. not excuse for others to produce missconcepts
You could go in a park, sit down beside a group of alcoholics and try to explain them the fact that they are alcoholics. They will refuse to understand it and see that fact, never mind how many valid arguments you bring them. The same applies to Apple, Gnome, KDE, Microsoft ... fanboys.
Happily not using Plasma
51 • @50 (by Angel on 2018-11-08 12:46:56 GMT from France)
Maybe you should check again about who is the fanboy, or maybe it's hateboy. I have used or tried: Gnome 2, XFCE, Mate, Gnome 3, Pantheon, Budgie, and others. I also use Windows 10, latest upgrade. Would use MacOS if needed except for the price and limitations. Linux is not my religion. It's Just a tool I use and I like. I would use just about anything that suits my purpose. I just happen to be using Plasma now, and I experience none of the bugs you keep harping on like some doomsday evangelist.
52 • @45 frisbee: (by dragonmouth on 2018-11-08 13:31:25 GMT from United States)
"even if SW can never get completely bug free, it could be much better then it is"
That is a truism. That statement makes a great for a great sound bit but is meaningless. Makes you sound like a personal injury lawyer claiming that his client would not have been injured IF THE PRODUCT WAS MADE BETTER THAN IT WAS.
FYI, anything and everything could be made better than it is. If you try hard enough, you can find faults and problems even with the most perfect of things. Many times the faults and problems are only a matter of opinion.
BTW - I'm sure that both the KDE and GNOME development teams could use your help in making their products better. Or are you one of those that just likes to bloviate?
53 • FireFox 63 : Good Font Rendering ( Regarding Post # 43) (by Winchester on 2018-11-08 14:11:20 GMT from United States)
https://ibb.co/ffp0DV
https://ibb.co/kDqe7q
Firefox 63 font rendering definitely not broken.
I don't have the fonts set as large as you do but,that could be adjusted and the difference is still clear.
The screenshot degrades it a little bit,at least with the screenshot utility installed in that particular distribution however,the rendering is obviously better.
Maybe it's the "known working" OS's that you're using or fonts.config ,fonts installed or some settings. I don't know but,I do know that I am not having that problem.
No high-end graphics card either. Just the generic Intel (integrated graphics,I believe) that came with my desktop 11 + years ago.
54 • @51 & 52 (by frisbee on 2018-11-08 14:13:48 GMT from Switzerland)
"Maybe you should check again about who is the fanboy, or maybe it's hateboy."
Fanboy will take a bad product and talk it to heavens -- so, not me.
Hateboy will make every product bad -- again, not me.
"Linux is not my religion. It's Just a tool I use and I like."
Exactly.
"I just happen to be using Plasma now ... that suits my purpose."
Exactly.
"... I experience none of the bugs ..."
If YOU can't see that something is broke, that's fine for YOU but, doesn't mean its not there.
Don't worry, be happy.
"even if SW can never get completely bug free, it could be much better then it is" --> "That statement makes a great for a great sound bit but is meaningless."
Its not meaningless, its a sign of total system failure, which alows unfinished products to be published based on "release dates", just for the sake of it. One product is done when its done -- when its working and when its well tested. If that happens to be truth on 2019.04 or 2345.12 doesn't matter. That's obviously not the case with "agile SW developement" and that is a failure of all who allow it -- users who accept the broken products are same as "guilty" as a greedy guys who demand it and as developers who do it to keep their jobs.
"Anything and everything could be made better than it is."
Exactly.
"If you try hard enough, you can find faults and problems even with the most perfect of things."
But ... what if you don't even try and the problems are all the time arround?
"Many times the faults and problems are only a matter of opinion."
Exactly.
Important to understand here is that a defect is a matter of opinion but, even if million users don't care for it and one single is noticing it at all -- the failure is still a failure and its there -- if it bothers you PERSONALLY or not.
Example screenshot from above: You dont need it? That's fine. You'll never even notice that the system is broke. You'll continue using it and you'll be perfectly happy. Thats fine ... for YOU. Less you know and see, the happier you are. Like allways but ...
Doesn't make the problem less of a problem for somebody else who noticed it and it happens to need it. Doesn't make the system good -- because others didn't notice its failures.
"I'm sure that both the KDE and GNOME development teams could use your help in making their products better."
Exactly.
"Or are you one of those that just likes to bloviate?"
Good that you put the question mark at the end since, you can't know that.
55 • @53 (by frisbee on 2018-11-08 17:17:00 GMT from Switzerland)
You post me:
https://ibb.co/kDqe7q
... and you say "Firefox 63 font rendering definitely not broken."???
1. If you don't have the fonts installed, they can't render so you can't compare
2. If you have the fonts installed, then they should show and they should
show PROPERLY -- something like this:
https://ibb.co/idNKoV
"I am not having that problem."
While you can't see it (the difference).
First compare your and mine SS in this post, then go back to post @43 and compare my screenshots one more time and if you still can't find at least one problem on each of them, PLEASE NEVER EVER GIVE ANY TECHNICAL COMMENT about your SW or HW!
56 • Love KDE (by Dxvid on 2018-11-08 21:34:41 GMT from Sweden)
I've used KDE since the nineties and have been a happy user for 2 decades. I've also used Gnome 2 & 3 and LXDE and like a lot of things about them. I've tested a few others too. I like the freedom of choice and I like the mentality that if you want something to improve you create bug reports and/or propose code that will solve the bug. I think trolling and bashing open source isn't gonna make the open source community any better. Most distros are free, the way you pay is by contributing code or creating bug reports. If you pay a license for SUSE or RedHat you do get major bugs fixed pretty quickly, but you still need to report the bug to them. If a bug also affects the server distro SLES, SUSE even fixes bugs quite rapidly for their free distro OpenSUSE as their build system can fix a bug for several distros at the same time with little extra effort.
If you want to test distros where KDE works well, I can recommend these two:
RPM: https://software.opensuse.org/distributions/leap
DEB: https://www.netrunner.com/download/
57 • @56 (by frisbee on 2018-11-08 23:15:03 GMT from Switzerland)
OpenSuSe 15 is my example for worst KDE experience ever. An not only that it’s buggy but, it has whole bunch of useless SW bundled.
Netrunner? How many times allready they changed their completely buggy base? Not one Netrunner worked properly in the past. Are they still rolling? Maui er least had some of Gnome elegance at the first sight.
What counts for me is — is my set of applications running and how?
BS is nothing else then application starter. It has to be able the applications that I choose. Where they run better, there they run better. So, no, KDE is a no go, Wayland is a no go and anything .rpm is a no go.
Bug reporting is story in itself. One should report but, reporting it doesn’t mean that anything will ever get fixed. However, I was discussing usability. This means, I need a working system and I don‘t need waiting on if it will get fixed. As I‘ve said, I‘m using what works better in my use cases.
58 • KDE experiences (by RJA on 2018-11-09 02:22:57 GMT from United States)
My worst KDE experience, IIRC, was Kubuntu Oneiric Ocelot, of 2011, where Muon was a crash fest!
59 • @57 (by Angel on 2018-11-09 02:46:29 GMT from Philippines)
"I need a working system and I don‘t need waiting on if it will get fixed. As I've said, I‘m using what works better in my use cases."
Then do so. That's what I (an others) do, but I don't go around trolling and badmouthing what I don't use.
60 • KDE & Trolling FUD (by M.Z. on 2018-11-09 23:15:19 GMT from United States)
So we basically have a lot of meaningless pointing around at bugs so they can be used as hearsay & circumstantial evidence that makes a fool feel good about them self while trolling others. Not worth paying attention to.
Here in the real world KDE & XFCE seem to be the most used DEs in Linux & both deserve recognition & support from users & the wider Linux community.
That's the only real downer about the Red Hat & KDE news. More work from Red Hat would keep KDE in better shape as a project & help keep it at the forefront of open desktops, which it clearly is no matter how you spin it.
On the other hand, no amount of additional work will make Gnome 3 palatable to most desktop users. I think it's an unfortunate case of KDE being N.I.H. (not invented here) & Gnome being good enough for the tiny Red Hat desktop sphere.
61 • No trolling nor FUD (by mcellius on 2018-11-09 23:49:00 GMT from United States)
@60 M.Z., I usually find your comments informative, and agree with you more often than not, but not in this case. The person accused of trolling and spreading FUD here is Frisbee, who clearly finds that KDE doesn't work for him (he doesn't like Gnome, either). Why would he not be allowed to state that? For him, KDE won't allow him to do his work, so he has - by his own statements - chosen to use other DEs. (Which, somewhat confusingly, others have defensively told he he should do.)
Isn't that what we all do? If any particular DE doesn't allow me, or you, or anyone else, to get their work done, won't we most likely switch to another? Of course! That's the intelligent and logical thing to do! But it also doesn't mean that we're never allowed to say why it is we can't use a particular DE.
By the way, aren't your ow anti-Gnome comments just so much more trolling and FUD, at least by the standards you're applying to Frisbee? Or is it only trolling and FUD when it appliess to things you like, but not when it applies to things you don't like?
For my own part, there are distros and DEs I like, and others I dislike. I've used many. But just because I read criticism of ones that I like and use doesn't make those comments trolling or FUD.
Frisbee sounds frustrated. He can't get KDE to work in the ways he needs, so he's moved to something else. Gnome appears not to work well for him, either, but he's still allowed to state the problems in KDE and Gnome. (I'm currently using Gnome3, by the way, but I'm not entirely pleased with it and think the developers are extremely out of touch with the needs of real users. Like Frisbee, when it becomes unusable to me I'll jump to another DE.)
62 • IBM? Hmm... (by azuvix on 2018-11-10 01:30:10 GMT from United States)
You know, I'm cautiously optimistic on this point. There are a lot of things that IBM has done historically that I respect. They didn't get their presence in industry by accident.
Provided they respect RedHat's vision, I don't see many downsides. That's a big "if", I know. But I'm not inclined to boo and hiss yet. I have even tried to be objective with Microsoft acquiring Github. Will that end in tears? Beats me. But I'm not demonizing anyone without a compelling, current example of bad conduct.
63 • @61 (by Angel on 2018-11-10 01:50:42 GMT from Philippines)
I'm 73 years old. In many years of troubleshooting, I learned not to try and reinvent the wheel. If I have issues with software, hardware, electronics, machinery, etc. that I can't easily resolve, I figure others may have had the same problem. So I go searching. Luckily, in the last years, Google, assorted forums, YouTube, and other internet resources have made life easier. Most times the answer is there. Sometimes I have to ask, and sometimes I just share the problem. But when I talk in the forums I don't start by calling the item junk, calling anyone who says they have no problems a fanboy, or by insulting their intelligence and ability to read. That would be trolling.
Frisbee has some problems with Plasma and Firefox. Fine. He has said so, not very nicely, but so it is. I have no problems. I have said so, as have some others. Is it necessary to keep harping on and on about the subject, and to be insulting to boot? I don't care if he is frustrated. His problem.
I had some issues with Plasma desktop crashing when I started using it. Mentioned it here and in other venues. Minor thing, on a particular setup. Took care of it. Other people might not continue using Plasma because of it. That's fine too.
I don't use Firefox much anymore, but I still have it. I went searching for font rendering complaints. Nothing much that's not quite old. Looked at websites that test fonts. Compared to Chrome. Saw nothing. OK, Frisbee is having problems. I don't doubt that, but when someone else says they aren't having any problems, I don't doubt that either. Anecdotal evidence is just that.
I updated several systems to Windows 10 1809. Since then, Microsoft has pulled the upgrade due to multiple major bugs. All of my updated systems are fine. Does that make me a fanboy? Even though I take all precautions, I have stopped updating any more for now. Do the bugs make Windows 10 junk? Well, given this is a Linux site, many will agree with that last. But I still like and use Windows, although I prefer using Linux most of the time.
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