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1 • The 'price' of Elementary (by dave on 2018-10-22 00:47:18 GMT from United States)
I don't have anything against a linux distribution making money, but I also understand why some people get salty about it certain styles of marketing. 'Pay What You Want' is a form of nagware/guiltware. Defaulting to $20 forces the typical downloader to change that to $0, so their internal anti-theft guilt programming is triggered. They're trying to make folks feel like they're stealing; taking the DOWN out of FREE downLOAD. Technically RHEL and SEL have no 'free' offerings, either. You go to Fedora and OpenSuse for that. Fedora's download page doesn't even contain the word 'donate'.
It would be difficult to find many 'free' distributions that rejected money. When we download Arch, Debian, Ubuntu, etc, without ever visiting the donation page, are we not Paying What We Want? It's insulting in 2018 to imply that we are not aware of the standard donation protocol. Even a donation leaderboard / high score list is way less trashy of a business model.
I think Elementary looks like a fine distribution for people who want a nearly-free Mac clone. That idea from the review-- that Elementary should partner with a linux computer dealer, is a better idea (to me) than Pay What You Want. System76 needs to Drop!_ThatOS of theirs.
2 • All Good (by Dhoni on 2018-10-22 01:20:18 GMT from Indonesia)
About elementary, their donation system is good. Some agree while other disagree, well that's life.. :D
I'm using Antergos for now, and i'm eager to move to juno. But that was not happening because when i tried running juno from flashdrive the display is flipped each couple second. Hmm i got no time to fix this and that kinda stuff, so ill pass juno and keep my existing antergos, at least for now.
BTW is there anyway to make KDE more friendly with low res monitor? im using 1360x768, and everything look huge on kde/plasma.
3 • Icon Theme in the Review (by Winchester on 2018-10-22 01:52:04 GMT from United States)
A matter of personal taste,but I much prefer an icon theme with a more unified look such as the "malys-uniblack" icon theme. Also,the "Shadow" icon themes as seen in the Peppermint OS 8 releases.
Elementary OS icons are too "cartoon-ish" for my preference.
4 • ARM powered workstation/laptop (by ravi on 2018-10-22 03:41:11 GMT from United States)
I had never seen a workstation grade ARM cpu which matches intel i9/threadripper in performance(those two are proper workstation cpus) . Most powerful ARM cpu matches low end i3 in laptops which are useful only for browsing and watching movie related stuff and not powerful enough for serious programming and video editing. People who are using ARM powered machines as their primary computer are casual users who don't need intel/ryzen fire power. Correct me if i am wrong.
5 • Making KDE work better on smaller screens... (by Bobbie Sellers on 2018-10-22 03:56:35 GMT from United States)
KDE System Settings
Appearance
Fonts Adjust all and pick the size you want to use.
then to
Icons near the bottom of the Window use
Configure Icon Sizes and you also get several choice
of theme on the same page as well as the chance
to Get New Themes or Install from File/
bliss
6 • ElementaryOS (by archi on 2018-10-22 04:13:09 GMT from Philippines)
EOS, is just another Apple wanna be, acting like its knows whats best and how OS is suppose to be used. Their business model is more suited to be partnered with a complete system, not a separate OS with guilt-imposing donate button right beside their download link.
7 • Elementary OS (by aguador on 2018-10-22 06:13:06 GMT from Bulgaria)
I think it good that users have ready access to donation pages -- and perhaps even a reminder at download time. For example, The Document Foundation offers up a donation page after download that I find a reasonable way to handle the donations issue. Having a donation set "up front" is a pain for those of us who simply like to download a distro and run it live to see how it feels.
That said, I have not even bothered to test Elementary since seeing an interview with one of the developers right after it adopted its donations policy and detected an arrogance that turned me off completely. More importantly, and not mentioned in the review, what is eOS doing to share revenue with Ubuntu? The developers would not have an OS were it not for the Ubuntu base.
In my case, having my hand held with a Mac-like interface is not something that interests me at all. That said, the comments that point to eOS as a good candidate for hardware sellers makes sense as the interface looks to be better than Ubuntu itself (the distro most frequently offered by hardware sellers), and will appeal to those who want a set look out of the box when buying new hardware. It also potentially offers a better option than the hardware folks spreading themselves too thin by worrying about OS customization. I don't think this would bother even those of us who prefer code bases other than Ubuntu's and replace pre-installed *buntus even as we support non-Windows hardware vendors.
8 • ElementaryOS (by tim on 2018-10-22 06:50:12 GMT from United States)
The users seem to be well-served, the developers seem to be consciencious, and their community/ecosystem seems to be much more content(?) happy compared to other distributions. They face an ongoing a chicken-and-egg problem, though, because the devs have single-mindedly invested so heavily in use of "vala" -- a relatively arcane language which is embraced by alarmingly few app developers. Even the offering of bounties "get paid for writing apps and adding features" has failed to yield a significant growth in the assortment of apps which are "native" to their desktop ecosystem.
I was blindsisded by System76' announcement of Pop_bAnG_uNdErScOre_OS. Really, I had expected or at least had hoped that they would align themselves with ElementaryOS or with LinuxMint, or with Deepin, or (at the time) Kubuntu or Yoonity.
Nope, I wouldn't expect ElementaryOS to tithe percent of any financial donations to upstream Ubuntu. Especially so, because I can't recall any requests/demands they've placed on Ubuntu.
9 • elementary OS (by hnk on 2018-10-22 08:13:29 GMT from United States)
While I don't actively use elementary OS, I have tried it and was in no pain whatsoever to download it.
I take no issue with having to explicitly state that I want to donate $0 and find it a great way to show people that a project like this needs funds to survive.
We see every few years that the donation system does not work unless you make sure people realize money is needed to keep development going. Just look at LWN or OpenSSL. They were in dire need of money, LWN already planning to close, and only a big bang (heartbleed in case of OpenSSL) actually got peoples attention and they started to give money.
I can understand that not everyone wants to wait until such a moment to actually receive the funding they need.
Lots of places I go to have a similar model: There is a set recommended entry price at the door, but it is only a guide to what the hosts need to cover their expenses. People can pay what they want, without guilt or shaming. Some pay less, some pay more. Why can't we do the same with software? Humble Bundle does it as well.
10 • Donations (by penguinx64 on 2018-10-22 09:06:36 GMT from United States)
I tend to avoid people who ask for money. Linux Mint has never nagged me for money, yet I've donated 18 times.
11 • @1 (by NieJaki on 2018-10-22 09:34:24 GMT from Greece)
"I think Elementary looks like a fine distribution for people who want a nearly-free Mac clone."
Why shou'd anyone wants Mac clone, when you can easily install Mac OS Mojave on your pc/laptop? There's a teenager in India, who shows you how to do it. Find out in the youtube.
12 • @11, clones and Hackintosh (by Angel on 2018-10-22 10:10:15 GMT from Philippines)
Ways to make a Hackintosh have been around for quite a few years, but there is a difference between free open-source and pirated software. It's like going in a candy store and getting free candy versus shoplifting a few pieces.
Many people like the looks and layout of the MacOS desktop. I prefer a top panel with a dock at the bottom, so I set up my Linux desktops that way, although I like to keep the menus on the applications' top bar rather than a universal set-up. Right now I have KDE-Plasma set up that way, but in no way does it look like Apple's. Most Linux desktops can be configured like that.
I tried Elementary's Pantheon desktop. I didn't care for it, but many people do, enough to put it near the top in DWs page-hit rankings. I like to configure my desktop just so. Others are happy to take it as is comes. As the saying went: different strokes for different folks. Just because it looks a certain way does not make Elementary a Mac clone. It's still GNU/Linux: free, not pirated.
13 • @12 pirated or not, clone or not (by Jakis on 2018-10-22 11:00:23 GMT from United States)
Elementary OS does everything to look like Mac OS, and that too is "pirating" the look. But it is not worthwhile to use. Trying to look the same doesn't bring in the value.
In the matter of Mac OS Mojave being installed in a PC/laptop, it is not exactly pirating, for you are refusing to pay for the hardware. You are not pirating the hardware. You just refuse to buy the hardware. You just use the OS that you download free.
I refuse to pay exorbitant price to buy the so called Linux laptops, but buy a much cheaper Windows laptop and dual boot Linux distros. Linux is sort of free, but you need hardware to run it. Mojave is also free, but you need proprietary hardware to run it. But, open-source devs have found out how to use that free OS on a normal Windows pc/laptop. And, you get the original, not the clone.
14 • init zombies (by cykodrone on 2018-10-22 11:34:59 GMT from Canada)
How fitting, zombies in my computer, just in time for Halloween. :D
15 • @13, pirating (by Angel on 2018-10-22 13:24:47 GMT from Philippines)
License:
The grants set forth in this License do not permit you to, and you agree not to,
install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-branded computer, or to enable others to do so.
https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOS1014.pdf
16 • ARM's (by meanpt on 2018-10-22 13:33:09 GMT from Portugal)
What's a "computer" these days? Is my Android's arm multicore, 1gb ram, samsung galaxy tablet 10.1, a computer? A phone it ain't, that's for sure 'cause I can't make phone calls with it. Can I have about 100 open tabs in chrome without crashing? Yes, they're there. Can I do the same in my (name the spin from 16.04 to 18.04)ubuntish 64 bits distro running in a hp 64 bits core-i3 with 4gb of ram? No.
17 • elementary OS and money (by Jesse on 2018-10-22 14:19:59 GMT from Canada)
@1: "Fedora's download page doesn't even contain the word 'donate'."
That is because historically (not sure if it still applies) the Fedora team saw it as more trouble than it was worth to accept donations. As one of the former project leaders pointed out, they get all the funding they need from Red Hat. Setting up donations from the public would possibly cost more than they received due to the extra accounting and legal work. When you have a multi-billion dollar company providing your funding, accepting public donations is not a priority.
@7: "More importantly, and not mentioned in the review, what is eOS doing to share revenue with Ubuntu? The developers would not have an OS were it not for the Ubuntu base."
Probably none. But that argument doesn't really go anywhere. How many of Canonical's millions get passed back into Debian? How much of Debian's donations fund the thousands of upstream projects they package? (The answer in both cases is little to none.) Downstream projects almost never sponsor their upstream sources.
Projects in these cases tend to share patches and ideas, but almost never money.
18 • I use XFCE, not Elementary OS (by mmphosis on 2018-10-22 15:14:26 GMT from Canada)
I used to be interested in Elementary OS because it was similar to Mac OS X which I still use on old PowerPC Macs. Rather than Elementary OS, instead I am using XFCE (Xubuntu) with my own UI preferences. A bar (panel) at the top of one of the monitors works like the Mac menu bar. The Ctrl and Alt keys I swap because the location of the Command key is pretty much etched into my brain.
/usr/bin/setxkbmap -option ctrl:swap_lalt_lctl
I use Autokey to make the keyboard in xfce4-terminal work like Terminal on the Mac. Similar to the Mac, I have the stoplight buttons to the left in window title bars: x close, - minimize, and + maximize sadly not zoom. Rather than an Apple menu, I have an Xubuntu menu that I use like a dock (application launcher,) kind of like the old Desk Accessories interface. I have the same icons on the far right of the panel just like Mac OS X, down to the the way the weekday and time are displayed on the Mac because you can configure pretty much everything, thank you Linux.
Clock options:
%a %-l:%M %p
I can't be bothered with the Mac-like menu items in the menu bar and leave things the "Windows" way with a menu bar in every window. I have a "Windows"-like task bar but at the top in the middle between the Xubuntu menu on the left and the bunch of "Mac"-like tray items on the right. I've stopped using a dock and now wish I could do the same in Mac OS X. I've discarded the Ubuntu Find (Spotlight) interface -- both for speed and no longer being annoyed by this interface. I turn off Spotlight on Mac OS X for the same reasons, but I know that for many people, this is the way they like to launch programs. Yes, I am stuck in past ways I used to do things, it's nice to move forward if you can. I am not used to the gesture of vertical scrolling being reversed, but I think that back in the 1980's had scrolling worked the way it does now on phones/tablets/games I would be used to it, and I seem to remember on some rarer GUIs in the 80s vertical scroll did work that way.
When I started using Ubuntu, I liked the "user" menu to the far right, and I now have this set up with Switch User, Log Out... | Restart, Shutdown which makes more sense to me than having Restart and Shutdown in the Apple menu or in the Windows Start menu -- or if you're an old Mac user like me, go into the Finder, select Shutdown from the Special menu and wait for the dialog box that looks like a bomb box that says it's now safe to turn the computer off -- that's the way it was, and we liked it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut3jqRlElOM
19 • @ 15 (by Pier on 2018-10-22 15:32:16 GMT from Germany)
Could be, but won't work in the EU. Google also got fined for ‘illegally tying’ Chrome and search apps to Android. There's no way for some company to make people buy their hardware in the EU. Btw, have you ever heard of a court case against using MacOS on a PC?
20 • Elementary looks a lot like Mac OS (by Ben Myers on 2018-10-22 17:08:50 GMT from Canada)
The layout of Elementary with Pantheon looks a lot like Mac OS.
21 • Lubuntu 18.10 (by Carlos Felipe Araujo on 2018-10-22 17:33:07 GMT from Brazil)
Lubuntu 18.10 iso is bigger than Xubuntu's. I think is totally unnecessary LibreOffice pre installed on a distro lightweight and Qt
22 • Just one more word on BSD (by Gerhard Goetzhaber on 2018-10-22 17:52:01 GMT from Austria)
It's because of my last week's report of some total frustrations I'd had with trying to install a variety of BSD flavours before: Meantime surprisingly, I got successful with that latest version 6.4 of OpenBSD on my self-built Ryzen system. So I also grabbed some deeper infos about the differences between the BSDs and all the reasons of their forking in the past. Consequently I can't do now but giving all folks interested in trying a BSD themselves a strong advice to start with OpenBSD or at least NetBSD! For in every case you will have to go through a hard process of learning, but at least a "pure" BSD may obviously promise you the better success ...
23 • Using ARM-powered computers (by fatmac on 2018-10-22 18:09:45 GMT from United Kingdom)
Up until a week or two ago, my main & secondary computers were Raspberry Pi 3B, running a stripped down version of Raspbian.
But I have just upgraded to an Intel based fanless/silent SBC as my main box, using a 12" XGA monitor, (my favourite size), & that runs AntiX, (as usual). :)
(I have also recently got myself both an 8" SVGA & an 11.6" WXGA monitors for use with my RPi3Bs.) :D
24 • AArch64 (by Juan on 2018-10-22 19:22:01 GMT from Panama)
I would love to have an AArch64 laptop as primary platform. But it NEEDS to have:
16GB RAM (my current laptop have 8GB)
8 or more cpu cores (my current laptop is a quad-core amd apu)
2 internal disks (which is what my current laptop has). They can be. 2 m.2, 2 mSata, 1 eMMC (must be 2TB or larger) and 1 m.2/mSata or 1 m.2/mSata and 1 2.5" sata.
FHD or higher display (My laptop has HD display)
webcam HD, microphone.
high-end wifi, bluetooth, wired.
standard uefi boot firmware (no weirdo propietary single-OS "bootloader" firmware) that uses gpt and can do multi-OS using normal grub2.
9 or 12 cell li-polymer battery.
AND ALL OF THIS IN AN ALL-WHITE OR COLORFUL CHASSIS (NO BLACK AT ALL).
Right now the pinebook doesn't cut it.
25 • piracy (by Tim on 2018-10-22 19:22:50 GMT from United States)
@11, 19
What @11 said is clearly piracy, and EU law isn't going to stop it from being such. Mojave isn't free- it's free if you've already bought a certain copy of OSX. If you download a copy and haven't bought it, that's stealing.
On a broader note, I can't understand why people would want a hacked copy of OSX. I understand why people buy Apple hardware- they offer high quality stuff that's well supported (until they EOL it) but what's the advantage of OSX? It's fine, but not great. The out of the box Ubuntu MATE or Cinnamon user experience is superior, in my opinion, and certainly superior on a system that wasn't designed with OSX in mind.
26 • "guilt?" (by Jordan on 2018-10-22 20:19:11 GMT from United States)
I have never felt such an emotion as "guilt" as I download linux software, no matter the presence or non-presence of a donate button or sales pitch etc.
Like most users I just use the distro and then at some point I'll find myself feeling damned good about what I got, as in a true reliable workstation or home OS.. then I'll feel compelled at that point to head to the distro's website and to find the PayPal or other payment link.
"Free" items that are needed will never be free as far as I'm concerned. And I don't are how they go about presenting that reality to us who use their offerings.
27 • ARM computers and more (by mikef90000 on 2018-10-22 22:17:51 GMT from United States)
The post by @18 shows why I stick with Xfce - it is easy to configure into almost any appearance and workflow that you can imagine.
I have not yet seen an ARM based computer that could serve as my desktop; even on Debian based systems many packages are not available in one of the ARM repos.
OTOH ARM processors work fine for my smartphone and Raspberry Pi; the latter is mainly used as a very low power, constant On media server running miniDLNA.
OT, if only our Linux devs would Finish working DLNA support for any (ANY) Client player. Even VLC doesn't talk DLNA ....
28 • Your Galaxy notepad isn't in the same league as a PC (by chowyunpat on 2018-10-23 01:17:19 GMT from United States)
@16
A Galaxy 10.1 is powerful for a mobile device, but it isn't in the same league as a full fledged PC as everything is scaled down, when Galaxy Note 10 can run any current PC game then I will change my opinion.
29 • ARM powered computers (by penguinx64 on 2018-10-23 01:44:31 GMT from Bahrain)
My only ARM powered computer is an old Samsung Chromebook with a 32 bit Exynos processor. It works great, but the proprietary hardware and OS prevent me from installing my choice of operating systems. It seems like most ARM device manufacturers try to prevent me from installing anything else besides the factory setup. I'd love to have a 13.3 inch laptop with an Octa Core ARM processor, 8gb of RAM and 128gb of storage running Linux Mint for under $500 with NO WinTel Inside, but that ain't gonna happen anytime soon.
30 • @ 19, piracy (by Angel on 2018-10-23 02:00:09 GMT from Philippines)
Apples and oranges, so to speak. You have it wrong. Google was fined for forcing (or bribing) hardware manufacturers to include its apps, and for not allowing them to fork what is essentially an open source OS. There is still precious little Google branded hardware. After the fact, the ruling has caused not much change if any. Google still rules the roost.
A company called Psystar began selling Mac clones some years ago. They were sued, not just by Apple, but by the developer who made the clones possible. The hack license stated that it should not be used commercially.
Tim (25) is right. Most people who use Apple's products do so for the organic, (sometimes orgasmic, I suspect) experience. I had an iMac G3 that I liked very much, also a MacBook that I din't like so much.The people who create the hacks do so mostly to show that they can.
I live in a part of the world where most software is pirated. It would be too costly and futile for makers to go after users. Only when substantial sales are made by commercial establishments do they bother, and then only where local governments are willing or able to enforce the license terms.
31 • I have a 7 inch tablet, should that count? (by BeGo on 2018-10-23 02:56:50 GMT from Indonesia)
Well, I use my tablet like everyone use a smartphone, so I have clicked unsure.
32 • @19, 30 etc (by Pier on 2018-10-23 07:47:42 GMT from Germany)
More the reasons to break into that "OS," when a company blackmails you to buy its hardware or else.
33 • lubuntu, xubuntu 18.10, (by saravanan on 2018-10-23 11:59:15 GMT from United States)
Lubuntu 18.10 - It seems lubuntu gaining more fat. Lxqt, screensaver, compton etc,.... good work. But moving apart from lightweight category. Due to less Internet data of mine... lubuntu network install got stuck in the middle. xubuntu-desktop(around 1200 packages to install by default), while lubuntu(lxqt)[ around 1400 packages to install by default]. So please be aware of it before installing lubuntu-desktop using network-install iso. Also Memory usage seems to be nearly same on both xubuntu and lubuntu. I think lubuntu-team will make it complete lightweight by 19.04 or 20.04. Xubuntu seems perfect-lightweight and complete desktop for older/newer computer.
34 • @32, blackmail (by Angel on 2018-10-23 12:18:45 GMT from Philippines)
Blackmail? Really? Is having that OS so necessary to anyone that they can't buy other hardware and buy and use something else? Seems to me since they spend the time and money and pay their employees to create and maintain that OS, they are perfectly entitled to put it only on hardware of their choosing. Do you really believe you are entitled to get free software by the very fact of your existence and wants? I want what they make, so therefore they have to give it to me, or else, and otherwise they are blackmailers? Gimme a break!
I choose not to spend that much money on hardware, so I use Linux, and Windows, happily. My life is none the lesser for it.
35 • @34 (by K on 2018-10-23 12:30:59 GMT from Netherlands)
"Do you really believe you are entitled to get free software by the very fact of your existence and wants?"
Just walk around Manila or any other city in your country and those, who sell those CDs/DVDs with those "counterfeit" software, whether they'd stop that, just because an American company is trying to make them pay exorbitant amounts of money?
Now, that this argument is going on, I'm going to install that OS on my PC to see how it works. I don't want any clones, when the original can be had.
36 • ARM PC's (by Roger Depa on 2018-10-23 12:46:58 GMT from Belgium)
I have two Via little ARM motherboards for testing running Android PC.
They are not really quick, opening more than the browser makes them slow.
The lay out is good makes that they fit in every computer case, they are not mini itx but smaller and have a regular IO shield.
37 • @33: (by dragonmouth on 2018-10-23 13:39:59 GMT from United States)
"It seems lubuntu gaining more fat"
That is called 'feature creep'. ALL software gains weight from version to version. The devs keep on adding features, whether they are needed or not. Making software more user-friendly also makes it gain weight. Linux distros used to fit on a CD. Now, many require almost a full DVD. Even though the various DEs gain weight, the relative size difference between them remains about the same. LXQT and XFCE are still lighter than KDE or GNOME.
38 • @38: Feature Creep (by saravanan on 2018-10-23 14:31:00 GMT from United States)
Anyone can name anything similar to feature creep. DEs gaining weight is not a problem.
Any one with more money - can buy better or best hardware and with better data internet package download any linux distribution of any size iso and install & use any DEs in-spite of weight.
39 • Eulas (by Kamm on 2018-10-23 15:05:55 GMT from Greece)
You cannot be prosecuted in the US for a violation of a contract. It is not a crime in any sense of the word. You can however be sued by the wronged party. You will not be arrested, charged with a crime, indicted or prosecuted for building a Hackintosh.
Legality in this case may also depend on where a person lives, since many countries uphold and interpret EULAs differently. Will Apple come after an individual for building a Hackintosh or installing OSX as a guest OS in VMware or Virtualbox for personal use? Most likely, not. Will they go after companies like Psystar for selling and profitting off of Apple's IP? Without a doubt, yes!
I'm pretty sure there are words and verbiage in the EULA mainly to prevent others from profitting from Apple products, but not necessarily to prevent hobbyists from tinkering.
Several companies have parodied this belief that users do not read the end-user-license agreements by adding unusual clauses, knowing that few users will ever read them. As an April Fool's Day joke, Gamestation added a clause stating that users who placed an order on April 1, 2010 agreed to irrevocably give their soul to the company, which 7,500 users agreed to. Although there was a checkbox to exempt out of the "immortal soul" clause, few users checked it and thus Gamestation concluded that 88% of their users did not read the agreement.
40 • @35 (by Angel on 2018-10-23 17:09:20 GMT from Philippines)
Haven't been to Manila in at least 6 years, except once to the airport. And since you are talking about CDs and DVDs, you must have been nowhere for just as long. Those days are long gone. Torrents, USB sticks and streaming arrived. No one told you? And it's cheap and easy to have a shop install what you need. There's not a CD or DVD to be found at my house, and most of the stores, legal or not, that used to sell them are closed. Also. the PC market here has been on a downward spiral for a while. I know. I was in the business. Seems that most people find a smartphone sufficient. In any case, it's not my job to tell anyone to stop pirating. You want to pirate, go right ahead, just try not to pretend that it's willingly offered for free.
Funny thing, but in the time of CDs or now, no one around here was or is hawking pirated MacOS. You'll probably find out why. I've tried a lot of things, including that, just to see. Linux is a lot easier and more pleasant.
41 • @ 40 (by Pier on 2018-10-23 21:37:14 GMT from Netherlands)
"...no one around here was or is hawking pirated MacOS."
There is no need to "hawk" the OS, you can buy it on a usb stick for about 10 Euro. And, it is the original OS, not anything pirated. Once the OS is downloaded, it can be given away, or sold on a usb stick. The price of a usb stick is more or less 10 Euro, so the OS is not priced. Hmm...
Tinkerers, who know how to install it on a laptop/pc gives away their packages free too. If you want to play with your machine is your problem. If you brick it, it is still your problem. It is very good thing that such tinkerers are around. Btw, not reading the EULA is not a crime.
42 • OpenBSD 6.4 - elementary Juno and paying for OSS (by TheTKS on 2018-10-24 01:20:44 GMT from Canada)
I installed OpenBSD 6.4 + XFCE and a few packages yesterday as the only OS on an old box. First impressions are that overall it's working as I expected, with some things left to configure (sound, haven't tried printing yet.) Looking forward to learning how it works over the next months or years.
I installed elementaryOS Juno today multi-boot on a new box. I like the way it works and looks so far, with some cool new features as the review pointed out.
One thing gone (as of Oct 23) that I liked in Loki was complete minimization available as a hot corner.
Jesse, thanks for the browser resource usage comparison, something that I'll be checking on my own system. About the Guest user, I had the same problem. Today I was able to fix it, but here's definitely a bug: when I set up a standard user right after installation, Guest showed as enabled with automatic log-in disabled. After I rebooted, like you I saw no Guest user on the sign-in screen (just admin and standard.) I signed in as admin user, looked in User Accounts to see Guest was disabled, so I re-enabled it and rebooted, after which Guest is showing up on the sign in screen.
As for the payment system, I don't see a problem. Yes, the request or "suggestion" for payment up front is blatant and in-your-face, but you have the option to enter $0 and download anyway, and I think it's a valid way to remind us that, if you want the open source software you like to stay around, you should pay what you can to support it. Can't afford to pay now, or want to try it out and pay only if you like it, or would rather contribute another way? Donate or help out some other way later. There are links for those options on another page. Can't afford to pay at all, or tried it and don't like? Then don't pay. Their way should make you pause and think about donating, but an emotional reaction to it seems a bit touchy to me.
TKS
43 • My 2 cents. (by win2linconvert on 2018-10-24 05:45:59 GMT from United States)
Let me start out by saying that, though it's been a while, I've tried elementary OS and... Didn't like it. Won't be using it. Wouldn't recommend it. That being said, for all those irritated by their request for donations... Please go to work tomorrow and inform your boss that from now on, he or she has the option of paying you, or not, for the work that you will be preforming from that point on. How will you re-act when they choose not. If you have the right to be paid for your labors, shouldn't others have the same right? Or at least the right to ask for a measly donation every once in a while? When they turn into the SS or the Gestapo and start forcing you to use their software and forcing you to donate, then your outrage will be warranted. Until then, take the advice of Bobby McFerrin and "Don't Worry, Be Happy".
P.S. Another great issue of D.W.W. Jesse. Keep up the good work.
44 • Donations & the open source lovers (by Pier on 2018-10-24 07:17:27 GMT from Netherlands)
When most "open source" lovers hear about donations get mad - how come these "free" distro makers ask money! This appears to be the main problem of the "open source" OSs.
On the other hand, the non open source OSs thrive in the world. The creators of that proprietary OS give chance to others to make money too, while keeping the users happy.
* Independent software developers who can maintain a staggering catalog of software that runs across a large number of machines running Windows, allowing those developers to make money.
* Hardware vendors who can buy a pre-built operating system for a wide variety of hardware that supports a staggering catalog of software and peripherals, allowing them to make money.
And, the users buy the hardware with the operating system, and don't have to worry how it works. They don't really care how much the included OS costs, as they know that they have to pay for everything they normally use.
Linux, on the other hand, continue to stay as the tinkerer's OS more and more. It is, of course, used in servers and in Android, ChromeOS, but there the companies employ paid workers to look after it and make sure those machines work.
45 • OSs... (by AJ on 2018-10-24 11:54:37 GMT from Greece)
Humans use the most efficient tool for the job. Humans are only animals on Earth that use tools. The efficiency of a tool to perform the job required is key here. Right now Apple only has 11% of the OS market, so until Apple starts selling cheap Macs or sell MacOS that can be officially installed in a laptop/pc, Windows would stay as the tool the majority of desktop users would use to get the work done.
Linux most probably can get most of the work done through its apps, but still stay as a tinkerer's OS. Android or ChromeOS, which is based on Linux doesn't really advertise the fact. Both of them give enough tools for people to develop apps, and those apps are galore.
People don’t care that much about operating systems - it’s the programs which most computer and mobile phone users care about.
We have enough Linux distros to play with, and most of us do that after work. Maybe, millions of us download and even install a Linux distro, but we don't really use it for day to day work, except few of us.
Marketing wise, all you see in shops, are Android, Apple iOs and MacOS and Windows hardware.
46 • Lubuntu and Elementary (by edcoolio on 2018-10-24 12:02:09 GMT from United States)
LUBUNTU @33, 37
Lubuntu has, unfortunately, become morbidly obese. For the longest time it was my go-to distro (as I have written here before) because of the light CPU and GPU usage after disabling various nonessential background services.
Now, Lubuntu has become more trouble that it is worth. It eats up about the same CPU and GPU cycles as its Ubuntu cousins while gobbling up drive space with garbage I will never use. Frankly, if that is the type of distro I was looking for, I would not have installed Lubuntu in the first place.
The new direction of Lubuntu IMHO is a massive swing and miss. Instead of making it lighter and faster, they made it heavier and slower. Goodbye Lubuntu.
I have my own opinions on replacing Lubuntu (Bodhi, Q4OS, etc), but I'd like to hear any suggestions on distros that have a good GUI with a proven very light load on CPU and GPU resources. I don't really care about RAM usage. I do care about functionality and updated software, so Puppy is out.
ELEMENTARY
This is an example of a distro that is somewhat of a pig, much like Lubuntu has become, but at least I get something out of it. It looks cute and is dirt simple for guests to use when visiting. Sure, it needs decent hardware to run, but for that purpose it is worth throwing it on my $70 Biostar A10-4655. Combined with 8GB and an SSD, it is more than fast enough. This spin is my go-to for this type of usage.
I would never use it as a daily driver. This is because if I use a fat OS, I need to get something out of it, like compatibility with games or other software. Otherwise, I just want an OS to be very light with a basic functionality GUI that gets out of my way.
47 • @45 AJ: (by dragonmouth on 2018-10-24 12:58:47 GMT from United States)
"Humans are only animals on Earth that use tools. "
Not even close. While it may not use computers or earth movers, there are quite a few animal species that use tools (ex. chimps and gorillas).
48 • @46 (by frisbee on 2018-10-24 13:05:17 GMT from Switzerland)
AntiX 17.1 is Debian based and it takes somewhere about 80 ~ 200 MB of RAM, fresh after the start. 80 ~ 200 because it depends if you use 32- or 64-bit version and if you make WiCd WLAN autostart or not.
Installing 17.1 leaves you without Pulseaudio, installing 17.2 installs Pulseaudio. Important to know if you don‘t want Pulseaudio installed on your machine. Also important to know is a drowback of missing Pulsaudio - Firefox needs Pulsaudio to play YouTube etc. Without it, you can still watch it but, it will open in Streamlight which comes preinstalled and preconfigured in AntiX.
If you are not fixed on Debian (by far the biggest SW repository), then Salix 14.2 XFCE is a great choice. It is Slackware based, probably the most stable OS out there and you get, same as with AntiX (== Debian), older SW versions but, proven and runing with no issues.
It has Live version too (so you can try it first + easiest and quickest install possible), HW recognition is up to date, SW installation very simmilar to Synaptic/Apt-Get (== Slapt-Get) and it‘s much quicker and much more responsive then Debian.
Only issues that you could have with Salix are if you need some SW that‘s not in repositories or you need „Multilib“ SW (mixed 32- and 64-bit doesn‘t work under Slackware out of the box).
AntiX and Salix are both systemd free if that bothers you.
49 • piracy (by Tim on 2018-10-24 15:01:52 GMT from United States)
@ 41
I'm not sure what the hangup here is... but that you can buy a copy on the black market for ten euros doesn't make you buying that copy legal.
OSX is not free, either in rights or cost. That it's a free download for Mac owners is irrelevant- they paid for the right to use it when they bought their earlier copy of OSX.
In rural areas near me there's often farmers who put out stacks of firewood for sale for $5 each. There's a cash box and the sign "honor system" next to it.
Can you come and steal the wood? Of course. Does that make the wood free? No. You're stealing. It's the same with OSX.
I'm not sure how else to explain it. And I also don't understand why you think a pirated hacked copy of an operating system running on hardware it wasn't intended for is somehow better than any Linux distro. Ubuntu is rock solid and is easy to find support for. It's far easier to use than a Hackintosh
50 • @1 (by Microlinux on 2018-10-24 21:06:22 GMT from France)
"Technically RHEL have no free offerings".
They do. It's called CentOS. Officially sponsored by Red Hat, and as good as the RealThing(tm).
Cheers from a CentOS user.
51 • @48 (by Jeff on 2018-10-24 22:06:13 GMT from United States)
Or you could install apulse which is PulseAudio emulation for ALSA, it is in the Debian repo for Buster.
There is also firefox-fuckpa, a build of Firefox without PulseAudio dependencies.
Or use a slightly earlier ESR version of Firefox.
The ESR versions still get security fixes.
52 • @ 49 (by Pier on 2018-10-25 06:41:56 GMT from United States)
Selling a copy of what you legally downloaded to another person is not illegal. Once, the OS is used by the owner of the hardware can pass it over to another person (for money or free) and the right owner of that OS loses the right stop the 1st person to give it away (or sell it) and the 2nd person to use it, at least in the EU.
You own the computer, so you use anything on it. Hacking is not a bad word.
53 • @51 (by frisbee on 2018-10-25 06:47:09 GMT from Switzerland)
Thanks Jeff, useful hint but, the point here was not to look for some workarounds but simply to explain the differences between two AntiX versions in their out-of-the-box state.
What I forgot to say is that updating 17.1 to 17.2 will not automatically install the Pulse Audio but one has to explicitly install it over Synaptic (which might be good or bad, depending on the user).
I mentioned it only because there are some users explicitly wanting or refusing the OS with or w/o systemd and Pulse Audio.
54 • No Hackintosh for me (by RJA on 2018-10-25 08:59:00 GMT from United States)
Well, @49, I would take Ubuntu over a Hackintosh as well, due to the existence of LTS versions. I also trust Debian, even with systemd, as much as some people hate systemd and think it's as bad, if not worse than Windows 10, SMH.
55 • hackintosch (by mes on 2018-10-25 10:02:46 GMT from Netherlands)
I tried osx in a virtualbox environment, just to see how osx works. I can imagine why there are so many happy apple users. It feels a bit like driving a car. You know that there is an engine and you trust that is works so you never open the hood (bonnet).
But I want easy access to the the engine Tthat is why I like linux. So I have removed the osx image from virtualbox and I do not miss it..
56 • @55 engines (by Jakis on 2018-10-25 13:41:45 GMT from United States)
How many car users look into the engine these days? People usually buy cars, not engines. I'd happily drive a car, rater than the engine.
Btw, in electric cars, there's no engine per se.
57 • Operating systems and the Web (by Jakis on 2018-10-26 08:54:40 GMT from United States)
The need for a specific operating system is losing its place nowadays, as most of us stay in the web all the time, not just browsing, but also working -- all kinds of apps can be found in the net and they are free. Any OS that can run a web browser correctly is OK. It is the time of the web, and maybe that's why Chromebook is having such a success, at least with the US students.
58 • Browser ..... Previous Post (by Winchester on 2018-10-26 11:30:46 GMT from United States)
" Any OS that can run a web browser correctly is OK. "
Well,it helps if current,latest security patched web browsers are in the repositories.
Or at least easily updated (see FireFox in SliTAZ) ..... without the multi-step process of downloading AND extracting an archive etc. .
It also helps if the OS is not riddled with security vulnerabilities.
Chromebook and Android ...... everything is roped into Google.
And some use non-internet based applications , obviously.
59 • chromebooks, arm, and linux (by Tim on 2018-10-26 12:32:51 GMT from United States)
@57
I agree with you nearly completely... I'm a teacher and the Chromebook enables my students to do an enormous amount of work.
The trouble is of course that without a data connection, the device loses a lot of its appeal. But luckily there is Crouton. This brings up my answer to the the week's poll: do you use an ARM computer. I also have one of the old Samsung Exynos Chromebooks like @29.
It's running the patched kernel from 2013 (like 3.16 I think) that Google released, but I've got Crouton installed so it runs a version of Debian Buster from like last May in a chroot. It's got XFCE, a video player, a lot of games like gnome-games, gnubg, xskat, LibreOffice and TuxPaint on it. It lets me give my kids something to do while travelling that doesn't require data.
I turned off the wifi and keep it off the internet because the last crouton update I did broke buster. I couldn't get stretch to run, but Ubuntu Trusty also worked with it. It's an EOL ex-school chromebook on its last legs, but crouton and the chroot made it a perfectly usable computer
60 • @ 59 (by Jakis on 2018-10-26 13:18:01 GMT from United States)
"I'm a teacher and the Chromebook enables my students to do an enormous amount of work."
Now, being a teacher, you know that the students use the web to do their work, their day to day schoolwork. Usually all of them are always connected to the web, so not a problem for them. Chromebook (based on Linux) had become a problem for Apple and MS.
Question arises why can't an inexpensive laptop with Linux distro installed be available for all in the world? Linux distro is completely cost free, but no inexpensive laptop had ever arrived. There are some Linux laptops out there, but they are much expensive than a Windows one. There are lot of Linux run appliances around, but that's not what we need, isn't it? We need an inexpensive Linux laptop, but that is not there( and maybe never will be).
61 • @48 why does firefox need pulseaudio? (by Bob from here on 2018-10-27 04:17:03 GMT from United States)
Installing 17.1 leaves you without Pulseaudio, installing 17.2 installs Pulseaudio. Important to know if you don‘t want Pulseaudio installed on your machine. Also important to know is a drowback of missing Pulsaudio - Firefox needs Pulsaudio to play YouTube etc. Without it, you can still watch it but, it will open in Streamlight which comes preinstalled and preconfigured in AntiX.
62 • antiX, firefox and pulseaudio (by anticapitalista on 2018-10-27 08:20:11 GMT from Greece)
Just to clarify.
antiX-17.1/antiX-17 shipped with older versions of firefox-esr that did not require pulseaudio to watch online video.
Just before antiX-17.2 was released, firefox-esr was upgraded to the 60 series upstream (Debian) which requires pulseaudio to work ootb. It can and does work with apulse (shipped with antiX), but it needs a change in the firefox-esr.desktop file. However, since firefox-esr is upgraded regularly, any change to the firefox-esr.desktop file to include apulse will get over written and users may think that firefox-esr is broken since it cannot now play online video.
That is why we decided to ship with our systemd-free version of pulseaudio.
If antiX-17.2 users prefer to use apulse and also, simple remove pulseaudio and pavucontrol and make the necessary edit to the firefox-esr.desktop file.
63 • @ anticapitalista (by Jakis on 2018-10-27 14:25:57 GMT from United States)
How about introducing an antiX branded inexpensive laptop? After all lot of usrs consider antiX to be excellent distro.
There is lot of energy put into creating distros and keeping them up to date -- continuous development, but no real laptop around.
64 • Arm cpus (by David on 2018-10-27 15:43:55 GMT from United States)
I am thankful for arm cpus,it would be a shame if intel and amd powered everything.
65 • @63 Jakis (by anticapitalista on 2018-10-27 17:29:27 GMT from Greece)
That is probably a very good idea - except I don't have the funds, time and to be honest, nor the inclination to get into the hardware 'business'.
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