 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 785, 15 October 2018 |
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Welcome to this year's 42nd issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
Our readers tend to be curious people, investigating new technologies and discovering new ways of doing things. Keeping that inquisitiveness in mind, this week we explore a variety of technologies, talking about reasons to try flavours of BSD and porting an operating system between computers in our Questions and Answers column. We also take quick looks at two Linux distributions this week. First, we talk about Reborn OS, an Antergos-based project with several special features, and then review Nitrux which focuses on using portable packages on a custom desktop environment. Our Feature Story has more details on these two ambitious distributions. In our News section we discuss feren OS experimenting with an edition featuring the KDE Plasma desktop, a Linux patch which may offer great power savings across multiple CPU architectures, and we talk about the benefits of Linux-based firmware. This week our Opinion Poll touches on Linux user groups (LUGs) and asks if any of our readers are members of these computer clubs. Plus we are pleased to share details of last week's releases and provide a list of the torrents we are seeding. We wish you all a fantastic week and happy reading!
Content:
- Review: Reborn OS 2018.09.09 and Nitrux 1.0.15
- News: feren OS experiments with Plasma edition, Linux kernel patch may offer 20% power savings, Linux-based firmware
- Questions and answers: Reasons to try BSD, swapping hard drives
- Released last week: Proxmox 5.1 "Mail Gateway", UBports 16.04 OTA-5, MidnightBSD 1.0
- Torrent corner: ArcoLinux, Clonezilla, KaOS, Kodachi, MakuluLinux, MidnightBSD, Obarun, Omarine, OSMC, Raspbian, Robolinux, SmartOS
- Upcoming releases: Ubuntu 18.10, FreeBSD-12.0-BETA1
- Opinion poll: Linux user groups (LUGs)
- Reader comments
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (22MB) and MP3 (16MB) formats.
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
Reborn OS 2018.09.09
This month I spent some time digging through the waiting list and trimming projects that have not survived the harsh and demanding growing period of their first year of existence. Among them I found a project which seemed simple on the surface, an Antergos-based distribution offering even more install-time options than its parent. What caught my attention was the specific list of extra options: 15 desktop environments to choose from, able to run Android apps through the Anbox compatibility software, optional Flatpak support, and the Mycroft desktop assistant. All of this on a rolling release base provided by Arch Linux.
The distribution is called Reborn OS and I downloaded what was, at the time, the latest build. Reborn is available as a 64-bit build only. The ISO I downloaded was 1.5GB in size and, booting from this ISO brought up the Budgie desktop environment. At the top of the desktop is a panel with the application menu, a couple of quick-launch buttons and a system tray. The Budgie desktop seemed to respond well once it finished loading and I was eager to get started.
Installing
Reborn automatically launches the Cnchi graphical installer, a component it borrows from Antergos. The installer lets us know it requires a network connection to download the latest available packages. The installer also insists we have at least 8GB of free disk space for the operating system. I had both of these and so proceeded.
Cnchi walks us through selecting our language, location and time zone. We are then given a chance to select what kind of user interface we want. There are a lot of options, ranging from KDE, GNOME, i3 and a console only setup. We can also install Budgie, along with other popular desktops and something called Windows Interface, which looks like it might be GNOME with Zorin's Windows 7 style theme. Unfortunately we can only select one desktop to install. I decided to go with Budgie, since it seemed to be the distribution's default.
We are then asked to select which optional features we would like. There is a long list of items we can toggle to enable or disable, including the Chrome web browser, Bluetooth support, Firefox, Dropbox, Flash, LibreOffice, Mycroft, Redshift, WINE, VLC and WPS Office. The Anbox software for compatibility with Android apps was mentioned on the website, but not listed as an optional feature in the installer. We are then given the chance to manually select package mirrors or have the installer do it for us. Taking the automatic mirror selection takes a few minutes during which the installer appears to lock up.
Disk partitioning comes next and we can choose automated or manual partitioning. I noticed the ZFS storage volume option was disabled in Reborn's version of Cnchi, otherwise the options are the same as on Antergos. The last step is to create a username and password for ourselves.
Here the installer failed, reporting it had run into error zero, which the Reborn website says is a common problem that happens when a package cannot be found or downloaded. There is a manual workaround suggested, but the problem is the workaround assumes the installer is failing to download a specific package. In my case the installer was failing before that, while apparently trying to download a manifest of available packages. To make matters worse, the installer exits when it encounters error zero, forcing the user to go through the entire configuration process again.
I went through the installer a few more times, after confirming I had a working and stable Internet connection. Each time the installer failed with the same error and quit, whether I used automatic mirror selection or manually picked mirrors myself. Since Reborn could not install, even after multiple reboots and trying different package selections, I gave up and moved onto another project.
Update: After writing this review I corresponded with one of the Reborn OS developers about the installer bug. They believe the issue has been corrected, but I have not yet had a chance to confirm whether their fix works.
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Nitrux 1.0.15
Since Reborn OS had left me with some spare time in my week, I decided to follow-up on a request to review Nitrux. I previously reviewed Nitrux just over a year ago and, from what I have been told, the project has made some significant progress since then. I wanted to see if the reports of an improved Nitrux were true and so downloaded the latest release. The distribution is described as follows:
Nitrux is a Linux distribution based on Ubuntu suitable for laptops and desktop computers. Nitrux provides all the benefits of the Ubuntu operating system combined with a focus on portable, redistributable application formats like AppImages.
While based on Ubuntu, Nitrux trims down the list of applications installed by default. Only a small collection of desktop software is included. The distribution uses a customized version of the KDE Plasma 5 desktop, called Nomad. The download for Nitrux was 1.5GB in size and I found the distribution is available for 64-bit computers only.
Nitrux 1.0.15 -- The Nomad Menu
(full image size: 225kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
Booting from the project's live media brings up the Nomad desktop. A panel at the top of the screen holds the application menu and system tray. A single icon on the desktop launches the system installer. A dock at the bottom of the display provides quick-launch buttons for commonly accessed applications and also doubles as the desktop's task switcher. My initial impression was the desktop, with its brightly coloured wallpaper, was working and I immediately opened the system installer.
Installing
Unlike its parent distribution, Nitrux does not use the Ubiquity installer. Instead Nitrux uses the Calamares installer. Calamares is quite easy to navigate and makes selecting our time zone, keyboard layout and making up a username/password combination straight forward. We can opt to have the installer set up disk partitions for us (which will result in a ext4 partition for the operating system and a small swap partition), or we can manually set up file systems. The manual partitioning option is quite easy to navigate. The installer then copies its files to our local hard drive, completing its work quickly.
While the installer was working, my screen locked and asked me for a password to get back to the desktop. The password for the live environment is blank. Something else I noticed at the end of the process was, when we reboot the computer, Nitrux will appear to lock-up when powering off the system. I found out the operating system had not crashed, it had merely paused and (I suspect) displayed a message asking for the install media to be removed, but if there was a message it was displayed as white text on a white background, making it invisible and the system seem unresponsive. Pressing Enter got things moving again and the computer restarted.
Hardware
My freshly installed copy of Nitrux booted to a graphical login screen where I could sign into the Nomad desktop. When running in a VirtualBox test environment, the login screen was unusually slow to respond to input, but performed quickly when run on my desktop computer. In a similar fashion, the Nomad desktop proved to be slightly sluggish to respond in VirtualBox, but ran smoothly on physical hardware. I was pleased to find the desktop automatically resized itself to match my host computer's screen resolution when run from a virtual environment.
Nitrux took up about 4.4GB of disk space for a fresh install and consumed about 510MB of RAM when logged into the Nomad desktop. All in all, the resource usage and performance of Nitrux running Nomad appears to be about the same for me as running most Linux distributions with the Plasma desktop.
Early impressions
Once I got signed in and started looking around the Nomad desktop, a few key characteristics popped out. One is that the application menu, located in the top-left corner of the screen, presents launchers in a small grid. The menu, which is a custom widget called Nomad Menu, is divided into two pages, one for favourite/popular items and one for all installed applications. I tried swapping out the Nomad menu for a classic tree-style menu and not only did the alternative menu not appear, but the Nomad Menu button disappeared too. This left me temporarily without an application menu until I tracked down a solution.
Another feature of Nomad is the dock at the bottom of the screen. To avoid taking up too much space, the dock gets hidden behind application windows. However, if the mouse pointer gets close to where the dock is, it pops-up, hiding the content behind it. I found this a frustrating arrangement as it meant I couldn't, at a glance, see which windows were open, but it also meant that if I was working on something near the bottom of a window it would get covered by the dock.
Nomad uses a global menu bar at the top of the screen. This means our application windows do not have their own menus, whichever window is active displays its menu in the top panel. Some people like this, some don't, and I fall into the latter group. I tried to remove the global menu to restore in-window menus, but the steps to do this in Plasma do not work in Nomad. I then tried to remove the default panel and replace it with a custom Plasma panel of my design, but found it is not possible to remove the Nomad panel. Going into the panel settings and trying to remove it does nothing. I could create as many new panels as I wanted and arrange them as I liked, but never remove the default one. I couldn't find a way to move the default panel either though moving new panels I created was straight forward.
Nitrux 1.0.15 -- Using the global menu bar
(full image size: 323kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
Settings
Since I am talking about adjusting settings and widgets I think it is worth talking about the desktop settings panel. Nomad appears to use a nearly unaltered copy of the Plasma System Settings panel. This gives us access to a wide range of themes, looks, window behaviours and the chance to adjust visual effects. I think a few minor items dealing with themes and the KWin window manager were missing, or maybe Nomad is just using an older version of the Plasma settings panel. The controls which were present all worked well for me.
Nomad Software Centre
Of all the features in Nitrux, I feel the Nomad Software Centre probably deserves the most attention. Nitrux makes a point of being geared toward portable software packages, AppImages in particular, and the Software Centre reflects this. The software manager displays available AppImage packages in a grid, listing just their name and a truncated version number. There are no descriptions or icons associated with the packages and we cannot get more information about them by clicking on them. The packages are shown in alphabetical order with no method, so far as I could find, for sorting them into categories. We can search for packages based on their name, but otherwise we are left with a long list of packages with short names like "jaxx" or "xchat" without context.
Each package has a "Get" button associated with it and clicking "Get" appears to do nothing for a minute or so, and then the button changes to say "Remove". New applications do not appear in our application menu and are not added to our path and I began to wonder if the items I had selected were downloaded at all.
Nitrux 1.0.15 -- The Nomad Software Centre
(full image size: 265kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
After some digging around, I found AppImage programs can be located in one of two places. In our home directory there are two folders, Applications and bin. The former holds programs added to the system at install time, as far as I can tell, and the bin directory holds programs installed from the Nomad Software Centre. Neither of these locations was a part of my user's path, which meant I had to open a terminal and explicitly run the newly installed items using their full path name.
As far as I could tell, there does not appear to be any method in place to upgrade packages. Perhaps this happens automatically in the background, but I could find no method for checking on potential AppImage updates and downloading them.
For me, installing large, portable versions of packages which are (for the most part) already available in Ubuntu's repository and which will not be added to my menu or path seems like a big step backwards. I probably would have overlooked the inconvenience of this approach had there been another software centre, like GNOME Software or Discover, on the system, but to deal with Ubuntu's underlying packages we need to use the APT command line tools.
The one aspect of working with portable packages I did like was AppImage packages did not integrate with the Nomad desktop. Basically this means that any program we install via AppImages cannot use Nomad's global menu bar and instead has its own, in-window menu. There is a touch of irony in that AppImages not working with the Nomad desktop provided me with programs which presented themselves in the manner I wanted.
Applications
Nitrux ships with a minimal collection of software. In the application menu we find the Chromium web browser, the VLC media player, the Babe music player and the qpdfviewer document viewer. Media codecs are included for playing videos and music. The Dolphin file manager is included along with the Kate text editor and a calculator. In the background I found the GNU Compiler Collection, the systemd init software and version 4.18.5 of the Linux kernel. The included software worked well and I had no problems with the default applications.
Conclusions
I went into my experiment with Nitrux optimistic that the reports I had been given that the distribution had changed and improved would prove to be true. To the developers' credit, Nitrux has matured over the past year. The last time I tried Nitrux it failed to work with my desktop computer, even though its parent (Ubuntu) ran smoothly on the same equipment. Now Nitrux runs well on my workstation, so hardware support has improved. In the past I questioned the wisdom of swapping out Ubuntu's friendly Ubiquity installer for an alternative. While Nitrux still uses a different installer (Calamares), I have to say Calamares is just about on par with Ubiquity these days so the choice to use an alternative did not have any negative side effects for me.
Previously, when I tried Nitrux I did not like the default audio player. I think the Babe audio player has come along nicely. While it might not be my first choice for a music player, it gets the job done and worked much better for me during this trial.
I did run into some design choices that frustrated me. The first being that Nomad seems to be basically the Plasma desktop with some hard-wired choices made for us. I like the Plasma desktop and greatly appreciate its flexibility. To run into fixed features I didn't want (such as the global menu bar I couldn't remove) in a Plasma-based environment somewhat soured me to the experience. This is all the more unfortunate because some of Nomad's style and approach I liked, but being unable to tweak it to better suit my workflow left me wanting to swap out Nomad for plain KDE Plasma.
My biggest issue with Nitrux though is the software manager. Instead of having a rich and easy to browse software manager like GNOME Software or mintInstall (or a powerful package manager like Synaptic) the distribution uses a custom software manager that only works on AppImages. This not only limits easy access to Ubuntu's massive package repositories, it also makes searching for packages harder. There are some other possible side effects too. For instance, AppImages are a mixed bag when it comes to security updates. Ubuntu's main repositories get regular security fixes, but AppImages may or may not depending on the specific package's maintainer and there isn't much the user can do about that. Another concern I had was that each AppImage is installed in the user's home directory, not a central location. This means on computers with multiple users we may end up with the same AppImage installed multiple times as each user gets their own copy. AppImages are relatively large so it may become a storage issue as well as a security concern.
Finally, AppImages are not added to the application menu so the user needs to be able to find and manually run their newly installed programs and this seems like a lot of unnecessary fiddling about when most software managers add new programs to the menu for us.
To be fair, I like AppImages, I use them sometimes myself. But I feel they work best when used sparingly as an add-on to the distribution's default repository, not as a replacement. It's helpful to have an AppImage when we need a newer version of a package than what is in the repositories, or a program that hasn't been added to our distribution, but it is not a convenient method for doing day-to-day software management.
While Nitrux does some things well - it is easy to install, desktop performance is good, the default layout is nice and fairly clean - after a few days I was reminded of something I wrote about the distribution last year. "This style of approach seems to be repeated throughout the distribution: replacing working utilities (music player, system installer, software manager, application menu) with alternatives that do not function as well as the ones provided by the parent distribution."
I believe the same description applies today. By the end of the week I wanted to replace Nomad with the more flexible Plasma, replace the software manager with Ubuntu's GNOME Software, replace the dock with a classic task switcher. All the customizations and special features Nitrux introduces I wanted to undo to get back to a more mainstream, arguably more convenient set of tools.
It's not that Nitrux introduces poor ideas, but that it replaces existing good tools with its new ideas which haven't matured to the same levels as the items being replaced. I would probably like the new software manager if it were an add-on alongside another package manager, like Discover. I might enjoy the Nomad menu and panel if I could customize it as I can any other Plasma widget without my application menu vanishing. In short, I think Nitrux's custom tools make good additions to the Ubuntu base, but not good replacements for more mainstream utilities.
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Hardware used in this review
My physical test equipment for this review was a desktop HP Pavilon p6 Series with the following specifications:
- Processor: Dual-core 2.8GHz AMD A4-3420 APU
- Storage: 500GB Hitachi hard drive
- Memory: 6GB of RAM
- Networking: Realtek RTL8111 wired network card
- Display: AMD Radeon HD 6410D video card
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Visitor supplied rating
Nitrux has a visitor supplied average rating of: 4.1/10 from 22 review(s).
Have you used Nitrux? You can leave your own review of the project on our ratings page.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
feren OS experiments with Plasma edition, Linux kernel patch may offer 20% power savings, Linux-based firmware
The feren OS project has previously released editions featuring the Cinnamon, MATE and Xfce desktop environments. This past week the project announced an experimental spin featuring KDE Plasma and based on Ubuntu's 18.10 Beta release. "Another new build for experimental ISO of feren OS is now available, showing the early workings of what feren OS could be like with the KDE desktop environment. Note that what you see in the ISO is nowhere near the finished product, with a lot of change planned over time, some of which will potentially make the experience as a whole feel different, and all the ISO is right now is the accumulation of the default settings and experience for KDE being put in the OS. This means that the ISO is nowhere near the final product still." More details on this experimental spin can be found on the project's blog.
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Next, we are happy to share some good news for all Linux users. Developer Rafael Wysocki recently gave a talk in which he discussed what a computer's CPU is doing when the operating system is idle. As it happens, a lot goes on in the background to try to make CPUs energy efficient when the operating system has no tasks to perform. Wysocki made some adjustments to the way Linux handles idle periods on all CPUs and came up with a way to greatly improve energy saving. "As Wysocki put it, this new scheme predicts short idles less often than the old scheme did, but it is right about them being short more often. In response to a question from the audience, Wysocki said that the work is architecture-independent. Intel CPUs will benefit from it particularly, because they have a comparatively large array of idle states from which the governor may select, giving the governor the best chance of doing well if it predicts correctly; but ARM CPUs, for example, will also benefit." The LWN article suggests the new approach could improve power saving on CPUs running Linux by about 20%. This, in turn, means Linux machines with Wysocki's improvements should run cooler.
Another victory for open source enthusiasts was mentioned in It's FOSS. The It's FOSS article talks about a project called LinuxBoot which provides an open source alternative for proprietary UEFI firmware. The LinuxBoot firmware gives administrators the ability to update or customize their systems without waiting on a vendor to release updates. The open source firmware can also be audited for security purposes and can offer significant improvements in boot times: "Here are some of the major advantages of LinuxBoot over UEFI: Significantly faster startup - it can boot up server boards in less than twenty seconds, versus multiple minutes on UEFI. Significantly more flexible - LinuxBoot can make use of any devices, filesystems and protocols that Linux supports. Potentially more secure - Linux device drivers and filesystems have significantly more scrutiny than through UEFI." Further details can be found on the LinuxBoot website.
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Reasons to try BSD, swapping hard drives
Looking-to-try-something-new asks: I have been using Linux since a few years, currently on Arch, and have heard about BSD. Is there anything that BSD does better that would make a Linux user like me want to use it instead?
DistroWatch answers: One of the tricky aspects of comparing Linux distributions with the various BSDs is the amount of diversity in each community. There are hundreds of Linux distributions and around two dozen BSD variants that I am aware of. Given the range of styles, goals and communities of each project, it is hard to speak in generalizations. For instance, I could say that most of the BSDs are not geared toward desktop usage, but there are key exceptions like GhostBSD and TrueOS which specifically target desktop systems.
Since you are running Arch Linux I will try to do my best to compare it against the big names in the BSD community: FreeBSD, OpenBSD, DragonFly BSD and NetBSD. I think one feature you will appreciate about the BSDs, coming from Arch, is the level of documentation. Both Arch and most of the BSDs are famous for having detailed, correct documentation on just about every subject.
Like Arch, the mainstream BSDs typically do not set up a desktop environment (or many services) by default. Coming from Arch, you will likely be at home with the typically minimum BSD base operating system. Likewise, if you have used Arch's AUR to install community-supplied software, you will probably feel at home with the BSD style of package management. The BSDs separate most applications into a third-party repository where you can install software from binary packages or source code.
Putting aside the similarities you are likely to run into, let's look at some reasons you might want to switch. The mainstream BSDs tend to be more conservative in introducing changes to the core system. If you have ever felt that Arch was changing too quickly for your taste, the BSDs will seem calm and conservative in comparison. The BSDs usually have a slow moving core system with up to date end-user applications.
The BSDs are developed as a whole operating system, while GNU/Linux distributions are collections of components from separately maintained projects. This means the programs in a core BSD system tend to work well together and not break during upgrades as they are all developed and tested together. In a similar fashion, the documentation tends to be well organized and consistent.
The FreeBSD operating system, and its children, have built in ZFS support which can be very useful for large collections of data, network storage systems and taking snapshots of the operating system for safe keeping.
There are just two things I can think of which may make you want to stay on Arch and not try a flavour of BSD. The first is application support. Most Linux software will work on the BSDs, but some components, particularly closed source applications, will not. If you run Steam or Chrome, then the BSDs are probably not a good fit for you.
Hardware is another area where I often run into problems with the BSDs. The BSDs tend to lag a little behind Linux in getting hardware drivers, so if you're using exotic hardware or a very new computer then the BSDs may not support your equipment yet.
My suggestion is to try a couple of the BSDs in a virtual machine and see what you like about them. That way you can become familiar with their way of doing things before you take the plunge. You may also want to start with a newcomer-friendly flavour of BSD such as GhostBSD. It ships with a pre-configured desktop and graphical package management to help ease you into the experience.
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Moving-hard-drives-between-computers asks: I have a computer with Fedora installed on the 250GB hard drive. If I take this drive and place it into a new computer, will I be able to boot it up without issues?
DistroWatch answers: You can probably take the hard drive out of the old computer and place it into the new machine and boot from it. Once you have made the migration you may need to make a few minor adjustments. For example, you may find you need to re-configure your wireless network connection if the operating system assigns a different name to the new computer's network card. Likewise, you may find yourself changing your screen resolution if the new computer has a different sized screen.
While migrating a hard drive from one computer to another will usually work, there are some potential hurdles you should be aware of. The two computers should have the same CPU architecture. For example if your old computer was a 64-bit x86 system, then the new computer should also be a 64-bit x86 system. If the new computer is running an ARM processor then your operating system will not boot.
Likewise, if your old computer had two hard drives and had the boot loader on another disk, putting your distribution's hard drive into the new computer would not work because the boot loader would be missing.
These rare cases aside, swapping your disk out of one computer and into another should not be a problem when running Linux. The kernel and most low level components are pretty forgiving when the system's hardware changes.
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Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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| Released Last Week |
Proxmox 5.1 "Mail Gateway"
Proxmox is a commercial company which offers specialized products based on Debian. The company recently launched Proxmox Mail Gateway version 5.1 based on Debian 9 "Stretch". "Proxmox Mail Gateway 5.1 comes with Debian security updates, new features, bug fixes, and GUI improvements: The new Transport Layer Security (TLS) policy provides certificate-based authentication and encrypted sessions. Users can now set a different TLS policy per destination domain, in case they need to prevent e-mail delivery without encryption, or to work around a broken STARTTLS ESMTP implementation. Configuration of the TLS policy can be done via GUI. TLS is also possible on internal SMTP port/traffic. The updated user management now allows a new help desk role enabling help desk staff to access the quarantine. Proxmox Mail Gateway 5.1 supports SMTPUTF8. This will fix the problem with some non delivered Google mails. Smarthost ports: Editing and showing smarthost port is possible. On the web-based user interface, the Proxmox developers improved the Spam Quarantine section adding keyboard shortcuts (for Whitelist, Blacklist, Deliver, and Delete), allowing contextual menus with right click, and enabling multiselection of emails. Graphs and reports on the GUI have been optimized in Proxmox Mail Gateway 5.1." Further information can be found in the company's press release.
UBports 16.04 OTA-5
The UBports project maintains a community-developed continuation of Canonical's Ubuntu Touch operating system for mobile devices. The UBports team has published a new update, based on Ubuntu 16.04. The new release, UBports OTA-5, includes several bug and stability improvements. The update also features a new web browser. "The old Oxide web engine 'Browser' app is being replaced by our new QtWebEngine browser, Morph (formerly known as browser-ng). 'Morphing' the browser to QtWebEngine means that the code will have upstream benefits from the Qt company, and it uses a more recent version of the Chromium engine as its base. This should resolve a number of browser issues, and make use of new scaling features. Morph Browser takes advantage of Qt Automatic Scaling, so that the websites you visit look the way that they are supposed to no matter what form factor you are using." Further details can be found in the project's release announcement. A list of supported devices and installation instructions can be found on the project's Devices page.
MidnightBSD 1.0
Lucas Holt has announced the availability of MidnightBSD 1.0, a new stable release of the project's FreeBSD-derived operating system with a goal to create an easy-to-use desktop environment with graphical ports management and system configuration: "I'm happy to announce the availability of MidnightBSD 1.0 for amd64 and i386. Over the years, many ambitious goals were set for our 1.0 release. As it approached, it was clear we wouldn't be able to accomplish all of them. This release is more of a natural progression rather than a groundbreaking event. It includes many updates to the base system, improvements to the package manager, an updated compiler and tools. Of particular note, you can now boot off of ZFS and use NVME SSDs and some AMD Radeon graphics cards support acceleration. AMD Ryzen support has greatly improved in this release. We also have added bhyve from FreeBSD. The single largest removal of functionality was the sensors framework. We found that there were some locking issues that couldn't easily be addressed without some major work. Sudo was removed from the base system and replaced with doas(1) from OpenBSD." See the release announcement and release notes for further information.
KaOS 2018.10
KaOS is a rolling release, desktop Linux distribution that features the latest version of the KDE desktop environment. The project's newest snapshot, KaOS 2018.10, features KDE Plasma 5.14.0 and offers improvements to Croeso, a welcome screen that helps customize the operating system when the user first logs in. "Plasma 5.14.0 was announced just a few days ago and is already included in this ISO. Highlights of this version include a new Display Configuration widget for screen management which is useful for presentations, the Audio Volume widget now has a built-in speaker test feature moved from Phonon settings, Plasma now warns on logout when other users are logged in, fixed non-centered task switchers on Wayland and the Kickoff application menu now switches tabs instantly on hover. A new Glibc 2.27/GCC 7.3.1 based toolchain is among the many changes to the base of the system. Updates to Boost, ICU, x265, Protobuf, Net-SNMP, Qt required the rebuild of a large percentage of the KaOS repositories." The release announcement mentions that Qt4 has been dropped from the KaOS repositories.
KaOS 2018.10 -- The welcome window and Plasma application menu
(full image size: 436kB, resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 1,063
- Total data uploaded: 21.5TB
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Opinion Poll |
Linux user groups (LUGs)
In the early days of GNU/Linux distributions it was common for Linux users to gather together on a regular basis to swap tips, help newcomers install a distribution, and share media with people who had slower Internet connections. These gatherings were called Linux User Groups (or LUGs). These days many people have high speed Internet connections and can download their own install media, Linux distributions have become easier to install, and tutorials are easier to find on-line. LUGs have gradually become less popular as a result of these changes and we are curious to know if any of our readers are still attending LUG meetings.
You can see the results of our previous poll on region-specific distributions in last week's edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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Linux user groups (LUGs)
| I currently attend LUG meetings: | 97 (6%) |
| I previously went to LUGs but do not anymore: | 211 (14%) |
| I have never attended a LUG meeting: | 1202 (80%) |
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| DistroWatch.com News |
DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 22 October 2018. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Article Search page. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
- Bruce Patterson (podcast)
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Poll (by Rev_Don on 2018-10-15 00:27:23 GMT from United States)
Once again this weeks poll is incomplete making it misleading for many of us. I used to attend LUG meetings for several years when there was one local to me. I don't attend now as the nearest on is a 2 1/2 drive each way making it impractical. The one that was within a reasonable distance closed several years ago. If there was one local to me I would definitely attend, but there isn't so I can't.
2 • LUGs (by TheTKS on 2018-10-15 01:27:56 GMT from Canada)
Haven’t yet, thinking about it. I think there’s one in the next town over. I have learned a lot on DW, on fora, through searches... yet sometimes it would be nice to be able to talk ideas over with someone, or to get help with something. And since I’ve gotten so much help from others, I would like to start giving back - still a noob, but have gotten to a point where, every once in awhile, a noobier noob than I am asks about something that I can help with, even if it’s just to send them somewhere that they can find an answer.
TKS
3 • LUG (by DaveW on 2018-10-15 01:57:48 GMT from United States)
I attended one LUG meeting several years ago. One reason I have never been back is that the meeting location changed, and is no longer convenient. Another reason is that the internet has been able to answer all questions I have had recently.
4 • Of LUG's and learning Linux... (by tom joad on 2018-10-15 02:53:14 GMT from United States)
I never, ever been to a LUG meeting. I don't know where they are held locally, if there is one close by or do I have any interest in starting one. I think, personally, that most folks learn better faster on our own. I do.
The analogy I would use is if I get the car stuck I do what I have to do to get the car unstuck. I don't really need or want a 'committee' to shoot the breeze about what I should do or shouldn't do.
Joining anything is just not me.
However, if beer, brats and some football are included in the meetings...well, sign me up!!!
5 • LUGs (by Brenton Horne on 2018-10-15 03:08:32 GMT from Australia)
I haven't attended a LUG meeting, although I am a member of the local LUG (http://tlug.dnho.net/), because there are no meetings in my city any more. There's simply too few LUG members to justify regular meetings.
6 • LUGs (by Bruce "the Podcaster" Patterson on 2018-10-15 03:08:57 GMT from United States)
LUG's can be great if you are in one. There are some online, I would even hit up the folks at the podnutz podcast. Door to Door Geek may have some suggestions. If you're in the Boston area you can check out BLU (Boston Linux Unix) blu.org Monster B has many listings worth checking out. Of course starting one could work too. As was mentioned in an earlier post, it can also be about talking about things linux/unix/etc.
As for Monster B - https://monsterb.github.io/ Lots of useful linux links to communities.
7 • LUGs (by Gary on 2018-10-15 04:40:33 GMT from United States)
Taught myself through trial and error how to build a computer. Then installing operating systems. Had been installing multi distros on external hard drives since 2005? It would have been nice if there had been a LUG around. Most questions I may have had then were mostly solved by forums and books (Real books) from a real library!
8 • BSDs (by SuperOscar on 2018-10-15 06:54:37 GMT from Finland)
One thing not often mentioned re BSDs is the lack of (or difficulties getting decent) Unicode support. As soon as you’ve installed BSD, you once again vividly recall all the character coding troubles you had in the 1980s and 1990s. Filenames with funny and unexpected characters; file contents that can hardly be read; and so on. I wonder how hard it’d be for them to fully convert to Unicode as the Linuxes have done ages ago?
9 • LUGs (by Alain on 2018-10-15 07:40:02 GMT from Belgium)
I have my own LUG meeting once a month. As in Belgium, English is not spoken so well by older people, many need a LUG to have their questions answered. Google Translate does not always do a good job translating.
10 • LUGs (by Ikkam on 2018-10-15 08:00:16 GMT from United Kingdom)
I think LUGs are the dying type nowadays.
11 • LUGs (by John P on 2018-10-15 08:22:11 GMT from United Kingdom)
When I was working, I never had the chance to attend my local LUG, and now I'm retired and could go, my LUG has joined with another one and has it's meeting there which is three hours away. Had it still been local, I would definitely have been to at least one, and would probably have become a regular participant - it's always good to meet like-minded people, and to exchange tips, tricks and ideas.
12 • Linux user Group (by John on 2018-10-15 09:04:47 GMT from United States)
One would expect a publication such as this to give a list of such groups or at least a link to such a list. Example - got a grub problem where do I go for help.
13 • BSD flavours (by Someguy on 2018-10-15 10:01:33 GMT from United Kingdom)
Dipped into many BSDs over the years, but usually pulled up short by their arcane commands, structure, etc. Thinking the new v1.0 of MidnightBSD might meet Jesse's DT usage, ran it up in liveCD mode. OK, well the login could be guessed, {looked it up on the InterWeb using a rational machine} but there's no point for live running not to list it at boot up! Typed 'startx' at the prompt - nada. Again using a decent Linux machine, checked their website to discover, DT doesn't run on the liveCD mode. What's the point?! Came to the same conclusion about BSD as a decade ago - run by a bunch of geeks for their own gratification. It was like this initially with Linux, though. Academics are entitled to talk amongst themselves for the greater wisdom of the world, but they need to try harder - a lot harder - to break out into the real world that ordinary folks, even extraordinary folks with higher degrees in e.g. philosophy perhaps, inhabit. Now that really does require higher intellect!
Oh! I didn't mention the login? root ....
14 • Shoulda done it! (by PatH on 2018-10-15 10:03:27 GMT from United States)
Back around the turn of the century there was a LUG in my area posted in the newspaper and I was always thinking about attending while I was experimenting with RedHat, SUSE and Mandrake but I never got around to it because I was so consumed with Windows and DOS problems. :)
15 • The beauty of it (by Pierre on 2018-10-15 10:18:21 GMT from France)
"...but I never got around to it because I was so consumed with Windows and DOS problems."
The beauty of it is that, when one couldn't or wouldn't find time to go to a LUG or do something with Linux related stuff, one would always blame Windows!
16 • LUGs (by Fox on 2018-10-15 10:47:34 GMT from Canada)
We have a LUG in our small city (Peterborough, Ontario, Canada), and while I wouldn't say it's thriving right now, it is hanging on. Formal meetings are monthly and one or two presentations are made at these meetings; typical attendance is 8-10. We had also been having weekly get-togethers at a coffee shop (Tim Horton's for those that know it), but that has been less regular recently. We also have a website that attracts lots of views outside of our LUG.
I joined the LUG just to get together with like-minded Linux users. While I do ask for and give advice to other members, I participate more to hear about Linux and open-source-related topics that I wouldn't necessarily look into on my own.
17 • Lugs (by Marc on 2018-10-15 11:30:20 GMT from Australia)
I have always wanted to attend a LUG meeting but never been able to
work until recently has been rotating shifts meaning i never knew what shift i was working, but now I will be looking for any unix groups
18 • BSDs (by PunkRockDocs on 2018-10-15 11:42:10 GMT from United States)
I've tried to install various flavors of BSDs in the past decade. Although I don't count myself as technically proficient, I've been using Linux at home as my primary system for 14 years. And yet, with probably half of these installation attempts on half a dozen computers I get the same obnoxious loud beep. Midnight BSD 1.0 had the same beep on my system and it stopped only when I powered the machine off. None of the installations have been useful. The best I ever got was a command line with no internet.
I know there are many talented and skilled BSD developers but I just don't see a reason to bother trying to install any longer.
19 • BSDs (by qweo on 2018-10-15 12:10:03 GMT from Russian Federation)
WRT Unicode support, things had markedly improved lately. FreeBSD had UTF-8 console support for some time now, you can have it in NetBSD since version 6 via mlterm, and OpenBSD finally fixed that annoying XTerm default that got in the way, and, I, think, they fixed ksh too, though, strangely for an OS that picked en_US.UTF-8 as the one true locale, OpenBSD's vi is still a loss with multibyte characters :-( nvi from OpenBSD's ports, which is mostly the same, handles Unicode just fine though.
No idea about Dragonfly (one reason to look at it again - project's goals and the way they meet them are outstanding, and the speed with which they rolled Meltdown fixes is telling... A shame it's not portable at all, in contrast to other BSDs!
For those looking for something exotic to play with, there's RetroBSD, a modern 2.11(!)BSD descendant targetting microcontrollers. It's not your general-purpose OS I suppose, but rather a demonstration of viability of old codebases for new tech, and an exciting one by me!
20 • our local LUG (by MikeOh Shark on 2018-10-15 12:31:54 GMT from Romania)
I used to go to LUG meetings when they were at our local library and on the way home from work. They moved to another library at day of the week and are less convenient for me but more convenient for the commuter crowd.
I liked our LUG. The moderator seemed to know everything and was incredibly helpful. Sometimes we had almost two dozen atendees and other times only the moderator and myself. He used a projector and demonstrated software, had multiple versions set up in Virtual Box, and frequently arranged to have guests. We even had some well known guests that people here would recognize and this in our small town. They managed to get some publishers to have book giveaways as door prizes. One lady who taught herself to be an expert brought cookies. It was the friendliest group of people and quite diverse.
I think I will go to the next meeting even though it has been a few years. Their website shows the same moderator attends.
21 • Reborn OS (by Joe85365 on 2018-10-15 13:06:26 GMT from United States)
I downloaded the newest Reborn OS ISO (Reborn-OS-2018.10.01-x86_64) and installed in VirtualBox. Quote "The installer lets us know it requires a network connection to download the latest available packages." If you don't have a high speed network connection, be prepared to wait. I got no error messages, but it took all night to install. 8+ hours. My first time looking at flatpack...don't expect to ever use it. Since I use Xfce and don't need anything new or exciting, this is probably not the distro for me. But it does seem stable and quick once it is installed.
22 • @12 Re: List of LUG's (by Rev_Don on 2018-10-15 13:51:44 GMT from United States)
Google, Duck Duck Go, or your favorite search engine is your friend. http://lugslist.com/
I do agree that it does seem odd that DistroWatch doesn't have an easy to find link to a LUG List.
23 • @22 luglist (by Ikkam on 2018-10-15 15:07:38 GMT from United Kingdom)
Most of them are dead, even in the UK. Some in the US are still meeting, which is good. But, I believe this is a dying category.
24 • LUGs (by Don Knowles on 2018-10-15 15:12:16 GMT from Australia)
I'm in a LUG in Central Queensland (Australia) that 3 of us started, which is the only LUG between Brisbane and Townsville, a distance of over 1300 km (800 miles) by road. As one of the organisers, I've had queries from people in towns 300 km away.
If you are in Australia, there is always Linux Australia (linux.org.au) which has both lists of LUGs, and mailing lists for questions.
25 • @ 24 (by Pierre on 2018-10-15 15:44:07 GMT from France)
I know of 2 Linux distros made in Australia, Puppy Linux and now defunct OZ Unity. Are there any other distros made in Australia?
26 • User Groups (by Garon on 2018-10-15 15:57:59 GMT from United States)
In the eighty's I was a member of a computer users group. At that time we had all kinds of different operating systems running on different type computers. We had Ms-dos machines, Tandy CoCos, Apple IIs, Commdores, home brewed systems, and many different types of peripherals. also we had a lot of good people. Those times were really exciting and everything was new. Really I had more fun back then, but in a way Linux renewed my interest and showed me I could enjoy myself again.
27 • LUGS (by zephyr on 2018-10-15 15:58:17 GMT from United States)
Highly recommend anyone seeking the more serious side of Linux as a user or developer to locate and join a LUG (Linux Users Group).
Although time is plentiful, and opportunity abound have yet to attend a meeting myself, that will soon change. Joined OKC Lugnuts a while back, about 500 members and seem to meet at random places in and around OU, Norman OK.
Really a great way of meeting other Linux users in a personal and professional environment and yet in a friendly atmosphere. The meetings vary in topic and often designed for particular users or interest. Sometimes it is just a social invite involving introduction with food and drink!
Appreciate DW bringing this topic forward, with excellent respondence!
28 • Death of LUGs (by Chuck Adams on 2018-10-15 16:02:54 GMT from United States)
I agree, the survey question lacks some important details. The local Phoenix LUG
died due to loss of meeting place. LUGs are most likely having problems finding
resources for places to meet on a regular basis, lack of instructors and individuals
willing to devote time for teaching the newbies. Distrowatch could help by adding
a section for LUG information, those wanting to start or find a local group and existing group info.
Survival of a group meeting depends upon having a meeting monthly or bi-weekly
without any changes to time and meeting place. You make one change and you
lose some people every time. Survival usually depends upon one person devoting
a part of their busy life to the life of the group. IMHO. I see a group that has
two 30 min sessions, one beginner and one advanced, and then a period of help
for installations and problem solving for question and answers for attendees for survival.
Location near a restaurant for meet and greet afterwards helps. Do typical linux
admins and users socialize well in any format?
29 • Oz distros (by zephyr on 2018-10-15 16:18:33 GMT from United States)
@ 25 Pierre: Yes, STAR! Ozitraveller from the Melbourne Australia area.
Can be found here...https://sourceforge.net/projects/linnix/?source=directory
and here https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=star
cheers
zephyr
30 • Phoenix AZ LUG (by Chuck Adams on 2018-10-15 16:19:32 GMT from United States)
My bad. There is a group in East Phoenix, but I live in the far NW area and a long distance
through traffic for me. There used to be a West Phoenix group years ago.
31 • LUGs (by Jesse on 2018-10-15 17:07:12 GMT from Canada)
@12, @22: I don't think the idea of linking to LUGs has come up before, it's a bit outside our scope. But it does make sense to make LUG indexes easier to locate.. I'm adding links to LUGs on our FAQ page, Glossary and Related Resources menu.
32 • BSDs (by pin on 2018-10-15 17:38:01 GMT from Sweden)
I'm running NetBSD 8.0 with awesome wm and everything works. No issues with fonts, never had problems with booting, internet works through wired connection, but that's just because I have a wifi card that's not supported. Although, this card doesn't work with Ubuntu either. I love the simplicity of this system. Ok, it's not "plug and play" but it's not rocket science either.
33 • BozemanLUG (by Scott Dowdle on 2018-10-15 17:49:18 GMT from United States)
Just wanted to mention that the BozemanLUG (Bozeman, Montana) continues to meet once a month and has done so since sometime in 1998. I started attending meetings regularly in 2005. Yes, we only have a small handful of regulars who show up... but we enjoy getting together. Sometimes we have formalized topics / presentations but other times we do not... and just chew the fat on what's new in the Linux community as well as our own.
I was also affiliated with the BillingsLUG (Billings, Montana) and attended my first meeting in 1998. The group existed for many years but has not had any regular meetings for a few years now. During the history of the BillingsLUG (formerly called the Yellowstone Valley LUG), we had a number of "InstallFests" which the question declares as the primary purpose of a LUG. Not so.
There are still a number of LUGs around the country.
34 • Links to LUGs (by R.Cain on 2018-10-15 17:53:36 GMT from United States)
@31:
"... I'm adding links to LUGs on our FAQ page..."
Not to put TOO fine a point on this, but you are MUCH too late on this one. I was surprised that you even proposed this topic as a matter for discussion; it is absolutely not timely.
I' m very certain that it did NOT escape your attention, in the comments here, that LUGs are DYING, not prospering and thriving--nor even stagnant, for that matter.
Save your energies--and print space--for a more relevant and revealing topic--such as "Why are the two, previously unchallenged DistroWatch #1 distros, Mint and Ubuntu--NOW #4 and #6, respectively, in the 7-day rankings?"
You may be surprised to find that the answer as to the 'why' of the death of LUGs lies in the answer to this last question.
“Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.” ― Winston S. Churchill
35 • locating Linux User Groups & Meeting places (by Bobbie Sellers on 2018-10-15 17:57:47 GMT from United States)
This does not need a list on the Distrowatch site.
Just type into the search window, your area and Linux User Group.
most have web pages.
SF-LUG meets at coffee shops with WiFi internet connections.
Usually these shops are out of the downtown area.
BayLUG meets at a Chinese restaurant near the finacial district
in downtown SF.
Some LUGs may meet in Maker Spaces. In the old days
in the Amiga Users Group we met in public libraries with
rooms to spare, the UC hospital, a uneeded school room,
But such places are harder to find these days.
But the coffee shop is glad of even my business twice
a month and the other users are a bonus.
bliss
sf-lug mailing list is at sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
<http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug>
Information about SF-LUG is at
36 • LUGs & BSD (by Steve L on 2018-10-15 18:17:42 GMT from United States)
Never been to a LUG meeting... nor any other user group since the CP/M days. I was a member of a CP/M Users Group in Washington DC back in the day, but that's the only one I ever participated in. Good times and a great group!
One other, very important, reason for using BSD is no systemd virus infecting your OS.
Plus, it's a very stable and solid OS with a good pedigree and a level of maturity that compares favorably against many of the Linux distro's. But then I may be a bit biased since I started out with exposure to BSD on mini computers and Solaris on workstations (hopped up desktops of the day) and SUN servers.
I was extremely glad to see BSD make it's way to modern desktop and server environments. SUN never really pulled that trick off, at least not very successfully from what I experienced.
37 • not a LUG but helpful (by Laura on 2018-10-15 20:10:10 GMT from United Kingdom)
There is not a formal LUG as such, but here in Tucson, AZ, USA there is an active Linux SIG associated with the Tucson Computer Society. The TCS has a web page (aztcs.org) which may be of help to anyone local who is looking for Linux help.
38 • BSD's (by ricky on 2018-10-15 21:12:28 GMT from Netherlands)
The BSD's are fantastic. I dabbled in them several years back before settling on Slackware.
I ended up choosing Slackware as my daily driver for several reasons relating to how BSD distro's function. Mostly because of the familiar rc.d style init system (this was important when systemd plagued the other Linux distros).
This is init done right, and Slackware is no exception when mentioning the BSD's (even though it is a Linux). When i hear BSD i immediately think of Slackware, which i'm sure others can agree on why that is.
I was most fond of FreeBSD around 2009-2011, which i ran during that period of the desktop for typical general use, including gaming. I was a big fan of SauerBraten: Cube2, and Red Eclipse at the time, which ironically outperformed any Linux distro in terms of frame per second in those games on FreeBSD (when using the nvidia blob drivers).
For me, the one thing that shifted me back to Linux, namely Slackware. Is because of Steam, i've always liked playing games and couldn't let Valve's push for Linux be ignored by myself. I hear that PlayOnBSD now supports Steam pretty well, and along with Steamplay, you can apparently get many AAA Windows titles now running on FreeBSD perfectly fine.
I may have to revisit FreeBSB... although i've fallen in love with Slackware even since then, that might be hard to do!
I think the comparison to Arch, when being "familiar" to BSD would have been the case in 2011. But with the advent of systemd... and Arch no longer using any kind of BSD style config or init... well, that's a dated comparison. In my opinion, Slackware, Gentoo and Crux, are the only Linux distros that can be compared to any of the BSD's these days.
39 • Nitrux, LUGs (by mikef90000 on 2018-10-15 23:03:23 GMT from United States)
I've enjoyed LUGs in the past but many people have touched on their decline - it's very hard to find convenient, functional meeting locations. Don't want to drive a long way in traffic. Most free sites don't have facilities like projectors or even a quiet room.
I like appimages, but Nitrix has managed to make them look bad. Store them in /bin, really - what are they smoking? After some thought and actual use, /opt works well for me.
- A fundamental problem is the lack of a defacto repository, meta-repository or equivalent; downloading appimages from random websites is so ............ Windows like :-(. OTOH Flatpak specific repos seem very slow, and Snaps have to be vetted by Canonical (?).
- Many packagers neglect to include automatic .desktop file creation so they appear in a menu (oops).
These package alternatives are still a work in progress ....
40 • BSD's (by Jessey Lawson on 2018-10-15 23:45:26 GMT from United States)
The first BSD I used was PC-BSD 9.1 on my new laptop. At first it did not work with 9.0. Then it turned to hell by 9.1. The issue is that it would only boot 1/3 of the time and even then it would take 3 days to install. No I am not kidding it took three full days! I had no internet and the screen was not at the right resolution and as a noob at linux I had no way to fix it. What is funny is Solaris 10 did work out of the box just with out wifi support. i would try PC-BSD 10 on it. The resualts were similar the only diffrence was that it took only and hour then to install and the screen was usable.
As for the others I tried MidnightBSD back when you had to use the terminal and install the gui manualy. I think that was back in .50. Mangaro did not have a GUI back then ether. I tested them both on my Vista computer. I like FreeBSD, but I hate all the dam compiling. Aftter doing that with OSX 10.10 I have had enough bullshit. That is why I like distros like GhostBSD/Trident. I was using DebianBSD 8 in a vm for a while but now that has been axed. I don't care though. I found out that Ubuntu and Debian have legacy repos. If there is one for DebianBSD 8 I will use that on this laptop once I get a new one.
FreeBSD is the only choice for my PowerPC Mac Mini G4. I hate that you have to compile a custom image do to the PS3 port that died. You can't run another os on the PS3 do to the hardware design so what was the point after sony removed the feature.
As for the closed source apps and gameing as long as you have a nvida card your good. Just build your self a Windows 7 gaming pc and stream the games accross the network using midnight-streaming. Takes care of the mess and you fell like it is native too. I hate that they are moving it to a chrome app. NOT EVERYONE LIKES CHROME.
41 • Oz Distros (by whatteaux on 2018-10-16 00:14:31 GMT from Australia)
@25 I believe Korora is also an Australian distro? Probably named after Korora Bay, a lovely spot just north of Coffs Harbour.
42 • @18 BSD - exactly like my own experience: No chance! (by Gerhard Goetzhaber on 2018-10-16 00:32:15 GMT from Austria)
At least on recent desktop hardware: Just because of BSDs been made a theme herein I tried installing two of them (the recent versions of MidnightBSD and FreeBSD) again yesterday and got the same disastrous results as so many times before. Both my workstations are powered by Ryzen CPUs on B350 chipsets. Not even one boot process came to finishing!
I think that for any fluent usage of a graphical desktop including the whole variety of commonly required i/o functions the huge advance of Linux before BSDs cannot be caught up any more. So I don't see any sense to try it again - as more as I'm perfectly happy with OpenSuSE Leap which has proven to easily get modified with recent kernels as well as with numerous most modern software due to all my needs. Linux is hundreds of miles in front. Sorry!
43 • Maybe Linux is not that popular now... (by Ikkam on 2018-10-16 07:21:30 GMT from United Kingdom)
That lack of interest in LUGs might also show that there might be lack of interest in Linux these days. Before anyone start shouting at me, I find most of the Linux related web sites are either dying or stagnant these days. This may also happened because of the success of Android and practically cheap Windows 10. (OEM is about $10, I hear.)
44 • @Jesse | Portable Apps (by frisbee on 2018-10-16 08:03:44 GMT from Switzerland)
If there would be an OS based on portable versions of packages only, it would be the ultimate fail.
The real advantage (== sense) of portable apps is to be able to get a version that's not in the repositories of your distributuion, to get a paralell instalation with older and newer app versions same time or not to screw your Gnome environement with 1GB of KDE dependencies (or other way round).
That also includes updating - portable app should NOT be automaticaly updated by no means, otherways I might just install the latest version. No auto-update is exactly the feature that allows me to use a 10+ years old version which worked better than the most recent one!
Basically, the main idea of installing the portable SW is NOT TO INTEGRATE (== mess up) with a system. Otherways, you should install a SW, not use a portable versions.
Adding the starter to start menu is different from one DE to the next. Some DE do it, some don't.
Example MINT LINUX: I created a folder named "bin" in my Home folder, downloaded AppImage (Etcher) and put it in "bin", made package executable, double clicked it and it poped up. A starter was added to the Start Menu automagically.
In your example with Nomad, you can add (== create) an entry for the global Start Menu, either over Menu Editor or manually writing "application_name.desktop" file an putting it under ~/.local/share/applications (for 1 user only) or, under /usr/share/applications (global).
Design of those portable versions will not fit in the rest of your DE design since it should be some kind of fail-safe, meaning, it brings it's own icon set.
Users of Windows know it since decades. Every portable app brings its own design, names and logic an does not integrate with a system at all - it doesn't show up in Start Menu, it doesn't show options on the right click in system (no "open with" for example), it doesn't autostart ... and that is perfectly well so.
45 • Reborn OS / Cnchi (by anti-cnchi on 2018-10-16 09:23:27 GMT from Philippines)
Cnchi has been a pain i the **** way of installing arch, it breaks so often.
i find if i do or some people insist using cnchi for whatever reason is to do the following before hand:
- update cnchi (if one is available)
- manually update both antergos-mirrorlist and mirrorlist (for arch repos)
- do not select to rank/sort mirrors when running the cnchi
- do no select so much stuff during install (i often times only select base or just the DE i need) as this
- pray that for some reasons, cnchi will not fetch from a slow mirror (which still happens despite ranking you mirrorlist by speed), or it will stop installing or will just waste your time by going though the install completely only to fail.
46 • BSD's (by alotov on 2018-10-16 09:28:21 GMT from United States)
I repeatedly installed Freebsd, until I got it right - or rightish! It does support UTF, but as far as linux filesystems go will only support ext2/ext3, although it does have a fusefs for accessing ext4. Being able to access drives that had been formatted in ext2/ext3 was a big isssue for myself. Turned out it was all about the correct permissions - Freebsd is finicky in this regard. Create a user on both linux and Freebsd with the same username is not enough for FreeBSD, the id number also needs to be the same - discovered this by accident and was not covered in any of the famous detailed bsd documentation. Its a good fallback system should the slackware developers lose their mind, as the ghome developers lost their collective minds.
47 • popularity of LUGs (by MikeOh Shark on 2018-10-16 11:39:30 GMT from France)
@43, I think other reasons are responsible for the decreased popularity of LUGs. Finding a good meeting place with a projector and publicising it are part.
Another reason is that there are many people who use a distro (such as Tails, Clonezilla, SystemRescue) for a specific purpose but go back to Windows for other uses. They are content to let developers do the hard work.
Even now, I know people who have strange things going on with UEFI that make it scary to use Linux. I can't be more specific because I have no experience with it yet. I am still using a 9 year old computer and it works well and fast in Linux. :)
48 • Linux popularity and LUGs (by Jordan on 2018-10-16 16:44:25 GMT from United States)
@43 I agree. It's almost impossible to find out, though, as to what percentage of computer users have some distro of Linux, or perhaps BSD, as an alternate, let alone their primary operating system.
Googling that does not help much.. the data is ridiculous. This article is fairly recent and states 1.8% of computers in the world run Linux:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-many-linux-users-are-there-anyway/
So.. LUGs would not be in demand much.
49 • Linux users (by Jesse on 2018-10-16 16:53:14 GMT from Canada)
@48: I'd like to point out that the 1.8% number applies to desktop computers, not all computers. Probably over 40% of the world's web servers, for example, run Linux.
I'd also like to point out that 1.8% of desktop computers is probably over 50 million computers. That's more than the entirely population of my home country.
LUGs were highly popular back in the late 1990s - early 2000s when the number of Linux users was 1/10th that number.
There are several reasons LUGs aren't as popular as they used to be, but the number of Linux users is not one of them.
50 • Users vs Servers and the 1.8% figure (by Jordan on 2018-10-16 19:11:40 GMT from United States)
That 50 million estimate as to users may be unintentionally inflated, as the data yielding the 1.8% is gathered by server hits, meaning some bloke in Adelaide who uses Windows or a Mac might have messed with his Antergos install for a while then went back to work on his work machine.
The data gathered for Windows and Mac users, as well as Android and iOS, is gathered from sales.
51 • unintentionally inflated (by MikeOh Shark on 2018-10-17 01:27:38 GMT from Ukraine)
@50, consider also that those desktop users bought computers that likely came with Windows. My own computer came with Windows but I only boot into it every 3 months, run Windows Update, and then reboot into Linux. Once back in Linux, I suspend to RAM instead of shutting off and rarely boot into Windows. Note the sales data show me as a Windows user but it's maybe an hour every 3 months and daily use in Linux.
I have always doubted the desktop Linux figures. I think they are too low.
I have my dad using Firefox, Thunderbird, LibreOffice, and VLC. Eventually, I will likely even have him using Linux. It will look familiar.
52 • Portable packages os (by Tim on 2018-10-17 18:02:12 GMT from United Kingdom)
Re 44. Isn't Endless os built from flatpaks?
Seems a worthwhile project
53 • @51 "I have always doubted the desktop Linux figures. I think they are too low." (by Linuxer on 2018-10-17 19:29:07 GMT from Germany)
But they're supported by the most recent numbers from browser headers.
54 • Cnchi (by JC on 2018-10-17 22:16:38 GMT from United States)
"Here the installer failed"
Yep. Sounds like Antergos alright.
55 • @52 Worthwhile project | Portable packages (by frisbee on 2018-10-18 06:32:27 GMT from Switzerland)
"Seems a worthwhile project."
Actually seems more like "one more unneeded" or "Seems NOT a worthwhile project."
It seems like, what you call a "worthwhile" is more of a "customized" distribution.
The whole thing about a "worthwhile project" is pretty easy. There is maybe a dozen "worthwhile" projects (Arch, Debian, Gentoo, RHEL, Slackware, SuSe ...) and half a dozen of "half-worthwhile" (AntiX/MX, Mint, Salix ...) once out of some 3000 out there and the rest is "lost resources".
Unique selling point is one of the things that make it worthwhile, something like Mageia tools for example.
Let's take a look at RHEL: RHEL is a worthwhile project. Then we have its clones. CentOS, Rosa Enterprise Linux (not free), Scientific, Springdale ... Now, one of them is worthwhile, namely CentOS. Since RHEL is basically free but, not available unless you compile it on your own, there is CentOS who's doing it for you. Springdale or Scientific? Not worthwhile since all they do is recompile RHEL, same like CentOS and then add a couple of tools for their own (CERN, Fermi Labs, Princeton) needs. The very same could be achieved by adding those tools to CentOS. The energy lost could be invested in developing a set of tools like Mageia tools, for example.
Or Ubuntu and Mint. Ubuntu is a worthwhile project which brought a Linux to masses and developed great Unity DE (it's still great even if you don't like it or use it like me) Mint is not a worthwhile project. Mint is the example for half-worthwhile project since they created Cinnamon DE, but as it's based on Debian or Ubuntu, it should actually become an official Debian and Ubuntu "flavor" (or "spice").
Or Arch and its clones ... Arch is definitely a worthwhile project. Antergos, Manjaro ... are not. There should be an arch-do-it-yourself-and-make-yourself-some-work-if-you-have-no-life.iso (Arch itself) and an arch-made-with-love-and-just-working.iso (Manjaro).
Putting the synergies together would produce a better Linux and everybody would profit. Diversity is not always the advantage and, by the way, it doesn't get lost - everybody can still take a basic Distro, add X and its own set of tools and make itself a very personal, own and "diversified" distribution.
Taking a basic OS and adding some customized DE, adding some apps to it and putting it on a website for download, does not automatically make it becoming worthwhile.
Here some sane reading (among many, many others) about the topic:
https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linux-fragmentation-sum-egos.html
https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linux-perfect-desktop-formula.html
56 • LUGs, past involvement (by G.Wolfe on 2018-10-18 08:10:15 GMT from United States)
I was a regular attendee, even a founder, of various computer user groups (since 1981.) There is still an active LUG in my area, but I don't drive anymore so access to meetings is an issue.
Another problem is that the topics the LUG is covering are getting more technical and more enterprise oriented; thus less relevant to me in retirement and home use.
57 • linux user numbers (by MikeOh Shark on 2018-10-18 11:50:59 GMT from Switzerland)
@53, browser headers aren't sufficient to determine number of Linux users.
Tor in Linux shows Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0, many privacy oriented Linux users spoof their headers so as not to stand out, and some users spoof their headers because there are still some sites that don't work well if they get a correct header.
The above may not be sufficient to prove there are many more Linux users than counted but perhaps the Linux users are not hitting the counter/stat sites as often for other reasons.
58 • @54 (by jaws222 on 2018-10-18 13:32:03 GMT from United States)
True, that installer is a pain, but once you get it installed Antergos runs beautifully. It would be nice if they looked into something other than Cinchi.
59 • useful (by Tim on 2018-10-18 18:41:34 GMT from United States)
@55
I think you are missing the point of the word "distribution" in "linux distribution."
I agree that there is something special and valuable about the base distributions- they do the heavy work of compiling packages and maintaining repositories. That doesn't make the others worthless.
Every distribution is a selection of software designed to work together. From the init system to the package manager to the desktop environment to logging to specific applications, there are a zillion choices a distro maintainer can make about what is included.
No one runs "Debian" or "Ubuntu" or "Arch." Every user runs a subset of packages that are available in that ecosystem, most of which are installed by default and some that people chose. But the vast majority of packages available aren't chosen.
The maintainers of the base distro make a choice of what packages to include by default. For many users that choice is acceptable and matches their needs. But for other users, different defaults would have been better or preferable. There are many valid systems that can be thrown together from software in the Debian repos.
You can make the claim that Manjaro is just Arch tweaked to work a certain way, or Mint is just Ubuntu tweaked a certain way, and that anyone could do it. But the point is that not everyone has to any more. A lot of people really like Manjaro and Mint because the software they include by default matches their needs. That means that people without the skills to customize Arch or Debian can still benefit from Arch and Debian. It means that the Arch and Debian repositories are being used in a different, but still useful way.
That has value. It helps people quite a bit. Even those of us who know Linux pretty well benefit from seeing a specialized distro. When I was setting up computers for my classroom, I looked at Lliurex, a distribution the education department in Valencia, Spain put together for their schools. The computers at this point are back to running Debian, but without Lliurex I would have never known the breadth of software available for a classroom computer. It really helped me.
60 • Worthwhile, @55, 59 (by Angel on 2018-10-19 01:59:15 GMT from Philippines)
Worthwhile is not an intrinsic quality. It is relative. It needs a qualifier: worthwhile to whom?
Back in '06 I was in Bogotá on business. Had a MacBook and a Windows laptop and needed both. XP quit and would not reinstall, so I turned to Linux. Ubuntu was best known, so I tried that. Problem was, my only internet connection was a corporate WiFi in the building across the street. To connect my laptop I needed ndiswrapper, and to install ndiswrapper I needed to connect. In came PCLinuxOS and Linux Mint. Both included ndiswrapper with a little GUI program to get it done. PCLinuxOS caused my HDD to stutter, so that left Linux Mint. Worked like a charm, the only worthwhile one. By what Clem chose to include, he made my life easier. I have since tried and used many distros, but Mint has always run in at least one of my PCs.
This is not the corporate world, streamlined to minimize effort and maximize profit. This is for the most part people with other jobs, doing what the want and love, and to them it is worthwhile. Maybe they will be successful, and maybe someone like me or you may find worth in their projects, or maybe not and the project will die. Yes, with all this duplication and "waste" desktop Linux will never beat Windows, or Mac, or whoever the next bugaboo is. So what?
61 • Worthwhile - Post # 55 (by Winchester on 2018-10-19 12:32:12 GMT from United States)
Four out of your six "worthwhile" distributions employ systemd.
Any distribution using a good init system other than systemd automatically vaults that distribution into a contender for being a "worthwhile" distribution in my view.
Of those,some don't function as desired and some DO function as desired.
I do use some systemd distributions (multi-boot about a dozen GNU/Linux systems as I posted in prior weeks) but,for anything sensitive,I boot into a non-systemd distribution.
From there,I ask myself,what are the security implementations,which software is available. Gentoo is great but,more work than some others. Slackware similarly takes more work than some other alternatives. Slackware has a lot of old but,stable and well tested software available. Slackware Current is not the most stable solution ever.
So,other non-systemd distributions besides Gentoo and Slackware are "worthwhile" in my opinion.
As post # 60 stated,it is relative and subjective I suppose.
Also,it is well "worthwhile" to use up-to-date software - obviously including web browsers in many or most cases.
62 • I currently lead LUG meetings (by Roger Depa on 2018-10-19 23:06:41 GMT from Belgium)
In our computer club I currently lead LUG meetings every month two to three times.
Most people that come to join our work-group are fed up by MS and W10.
They want an OS that's simply works and that they can update when they have the time and is not pushed down there throat.
Linux is getting more and more momentum and I slash W10 down for the rubbish it is.
Not that I am not using MS but only Win 2000 Pro Sp 4 and Win 7 Pro 64, that's only two computers on they more than fifty I own.
Tux rules at my place.
63 • About "worthwhile" (by frisbee on 2018-10-20 14:08:52 GMT from Switzerland)
Well, so simple it's not. Of course, you can make "worthwhile" dependable on your personal needs or preferences if you want but, in itself "worthwhile" is not relative at all.
Are the planes or trains worthwhile even if you never ever traveled anywhere by them? ;)
However, the main point here is still "the lost resources" thing.
Let's say we have 3000 Linux distributions and hardly a handful of them works partially.
Let's say, we have 10 developers per distribution in average.
I imagine that there would be some slightly better chance on getting one single, fully functional distribution if 30'000 developers would join and work together on it and I'm 100% sure that it would be much better standing against the competition than now when it's developed by 10 or, even only 1 person.
64 • @63 (by Angel on 2018-10-20 15:18:42 GMT from Philippines)
Planes and trains are worthwhile to those who use or benefit from them. If no one traveled by them, there would be no reason at all for their existence. There are already OSes where thousands of developers work together and as directed. They are called Windows, MacOS, ChromeOS. Do we really need another?
65 • Worthwhile @63, 64 (by Jakis on 2018-10-20 19:29:46 GMT from United States)
Trains and planes are used extensively in the world, so their existence is more than worthwhile. Likewise, the OSs that are extensively used by people are worthwhile to people, whereas the other OSs/distros that have to fight fr existence is not that worthwhile, maybe to try out/play with and so on. It is very hard believe that any other OS/distro would take the place of Windows, MacOS and ChromeOS ever.
Number of Comments: 65
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