DistroWatch Weekly |
DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 783, 1 October 2018 |
Welcome to this year's 40th issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
Many members of the open source community run multiple operating systems on the same computer. This gives people the opportunity to try out multiple distributions running on physical hardware without giving up their previous operating system. This week, in our Questions and Answers column, we talk about how to set up a dual-boot environment with two very different operating systems: Ubuntu and FreeBSD. Our Opinion Poll also explores booting multiple operating systems and we would like to find out how many platforms you have on your computer. First though we explore the Quirky distribution, a sister project to Puppy Linux with some experimental ideas. We also discuss Canonical offering extended support for Ubuntu 14.04. Lubuntu switching from the LXDE desktop to running LXQt, and the Linux Mint team improving the Cinnamon desktop's performance. Plus we are pleased to share the releases of the past week and list the torrents we are seeding. We wish you all a fantastic week and happy reading!
Content:
- Review: Quirky 8.6
- News: Ubuntu plans extended support for 14.04, Linux Mint works on performance improvements, Lubuntu switches to LXQt
- Questions and answers: Dual booting Linux and FreeBSD
- Released last week: pfSense 2.4.4, KDE neon 20180925, Robolinux 10.1
- Torrent corner: 4MLinux, Archman, Bluestar, Haiku, HardenedBSD, Nitrux, pfSense, Robolinux, SmartOS
- Upcoming releases: UBports 16.04 OTA-5
- Opinion poll: Booting multiple operating systems
- Reader comments
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (14MB) and MP3 (10MB) formats.
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Feature Story (by Robert Rijkhoff) |
Quirky 8.6
Quirky is an offshoot of Puppy Linux. The live distro is maintained by Barry Kauler, who until 2013 was the lead developer of Puppy. The main difference between Quirky and Puppy is that Quirky is experimental - its aim is "to explore new ideas in Puppy's underlying infrastructure".
The official introduction to Quirky consists of a few short paragraphs on the developer's blog. The last paragraph acknowledges that the page "needs to be filled out a bit more" and refers people who want to find out more about the distro to the blog's Quirky tag. There is also a link to the Quirky docs which consists of a single page that reads: "coming soon".
As I was not that familiar with Puppy I read most of the blog posts with the Quirky tag. The blog posts are rather technical and aimed at people interested in the underlying technologies. If, like me, you would like an overview of how to use the distro on a day-to-day basis then you are out of luck.
Installation and first impressions
Installing Quirky is easy enough: you download the ISO, transfer it to a USB stick (or CD/DVD) and boot your computer from the USB. It is recommended that the USB is at least 8GB in size - that will give you enough space for the distro itself and to store data.

Quirky 8.6 -- Quirky's setup wizard
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On the first run you are presented with a "Quick Setup" wizard. You can use this to configure the locale, date, keyboard layout and screen resolution. Next, you are asked if you want to configure the network. There are two separate tools for this. I went with the recommended Simple Network Setup utility, which worked fine. It is worth noting that out of the box Ethernet won't work and that you may need to configure your network every time you boot Quirky (sometimes Quirky remembered the network settings but most times I needed to reconfigure the connection). On the bright side, I didn't have any issues with wireless Internet during my trial.

Quirky 8.6 -- Configuring the network
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Quirky uses the BusyBox init system and the desktop environment is JWM. The desktop features a single panel with a menu, quick launchers, workspace switchers, application launchers and a system tray.
At first sight the menu looks fairly organised but when you start looking inside the various categories you might get a little overwhelmed. Quirky comes with an awful lot of software pre-installed. Among the applications I don't usually see in Linux distros are a graphical application to search the whois database, an animated GIF generator and a personal wiki creator.

Quirky 8.6 -- Quirky's menu
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Another thing I noticed is the file system hierarchy. When I launched the file manager it opened the /file directory, which contained directories such as archive, downloads, media, and projects. As far as I can tell this is the home directory, although the set of default sub-directories is somewhat unusual.
The reason I am not quite sure about the purpose of the /file directory is that most applications will try to save files to the /root directory. In a way that makes sense, as you are logged in as the super user, but it made me wonder about the relation between the /file and /root directory. I then found that there is also a /home directory with two sub-directories: rover and zeus. An 'about' file in these directories explains that rover and zeus are "intended" as unprivileged users in a container and that they are used in EasyShare (an application for sharing files over a network). The file refers to "container ssh0" for more information but where to look for that container is not explained.

Quirky 8.6 -- Reading the documentation about "rover"
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It is also possible to run applications as the user spot. I found some documentation in /usr/share/doc that talked about spot and fido, which are simply non-root users. The documentation was from 2013 and talked about Puppy rather than Quirky, so my guess is that rover and zeus are Quirky-specific additions.
Applications
Quirky ships with a very large number of applications, many of which have the same function. For example, you get two clipboard managers, two checksum calculators, two batch file renamers and three screenshot utilities; under Business you will find four calculators and under Multimedia you will see applications such as Asunder audio CD ripper, CD player/ripper (pMusic), Pcdripper CD song ripper and pMusic -player -manager -grabber.

Quirky 8.6 -- Calculators galore
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Perhaps unsurprisingly, there is also an alternative application menu. If you find the main menu a little too cluttered you can click on the apps icon on the desktop to launch EasyApps, which effectively is an application menu in an application window. The layout is a lot less overwhelming than the main menu: under Business there is just one calculator and under Media you've got a single CD ripper. EasyApps also doesn't show the names of applications; instead it provides a generic name and description (such as "CD Ripper - Copy/Extract songs from CD"). Although it is awkward to have a separate window for a menu I did find it easier to use than the main menu. The same goes for the PupControl application, which avoids having to locate configuration options in the menu.

Quirky 8.6 -- The EasyApps and PupControl applications
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Among the more recognisable applications are the SeaMonkey web browser and e-mail client, ROX-Filer file manager, LibreOffice (version 5.1) and the Leafpad and Geany text editors. Generally speaking, these applications worked fine. Many of the less common applications, however, were buggy. Some were usable but a little annoying. For instance, the Figaro's Password Manager works just like other graphical password managers. It has one feature I was not familiar with though: for each entry you are supposed to define a "launcher". The launcher options are None, Web, ssh and Generic command. If you choose None for an entry (which is the default) you can't open the entry - Figaro will complain that the password's launcher is "undefined". I honestly haven't got a clue what the launchers are about and the only way I could view passwords was by selecting the 'Edit' option for an entry.
Other applications were simply unusable. For example, at first I was quite impressed by the pMusic Radio Streamer. The application obtains lots of radio streams from somewhere and lets you not only play streams but also record them. I was indeed able to start recording streams but there was no obvious way to stop recording. My best guess was that I needed to click the "Quit and Update db" button. That, however, resulted in an "Updating database, please wait" message and then an error: the directory to which the audio was saved (named "incomplete") had been deleted. The directory had indeed gone - but it wasn't me who had deleted it.

Quirky 8.6 -- Trying to stop recording an audio stream
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Meanwhile, the "Updating database" message stayed on the screen and the pMusic window had gone blank - the latter appears to happen when an application launches a new window, such as pMusic's "Radio Grabber" dialogue. The main pMusic window would not be redrawn, so I decided to try to kill it via the Pprocess process manager. The application sorts processes by their PID and clicking on the headers to change the sort order resulted in a "No action defined" error and searches for the process returned no results.

Quirky 8.6 -- Trying to kill pMusic
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Interestingly, one of the options shown when you right-click on an application's launcher is "Kill". Selecting that option closed the blank pMusic window but the audio continued to play. The only way to actually kill the application was via the command line. The "Updating database" message turned out to have its own PID and needed to be killed separately.
I encountered issues like these all the time. I don't mind that things like connecting to the Internet are a somewhat manual process. Quirky aims to provide a lightweight, live distro and that comes at a cost. However, I do dislike that few applications are actually usable and that the interface is, frankly, a mess. There is no reason why everything is so ugly and dysfunctional. JWM can look perfectly elegant and applications that are lightweight aren't necessarily broken.
Software management
Quirky is based on Ubuntu 16.04 but is quite different architecturally. I have already mentioned the file system structure. A more noticeable difference is the package manager. Quirky uses the graphical PETget package manager, which is quite a different beast than APT.

Quirky 8.6 -- The PETget package manager
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PETget's main window shows the software repositories - Quirky is pulling packages from the Ubuntu Xenial repositories and the pet-xerus and pet-noarch repositories - and packages are organised in categories. As with so many other Quirky applications, the interface is rather poor. The application shows a lot of information and I therefore maximised the window so that I wouldn't have to scroll from left to right to view the package names and descriptions. However, maximising the window causes the list with packages to shift to the right, leaving a huge amount of empty space to the left. To read package descriptions you still have to scroll horizontally.

Quirky 8.6 -- Examining dependencies
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More annoyingly, PETget also isn't very good at installing and removing software. The first package I tried to install was the Midori browser. PETget told me that Midori had three dependencies and invited me to "examine" them. The install dialogue showed that there were in fact five dependencies and offered to install the lot. Hitting the Install button resulted in lots of yellow blocks flickering on the screen, and then PETget got stuck. The install dialogue had disappeared but at the top of the screen I got a "please wait, installing" message that just sat there. The main PETget window had of course gone blank and had therefore become unusable.

Quirky 8.6 -- Trying to install the Midori browser
(full image size: 66kB, resolution: 1366x768 pixels)
I had exactly the same result with other graphical applications I tried to install. I did have more luck installing command line utilities. For instance, I was able to install the dnsutils package, which had seven dependencies. As before, the install process caused lots of flickering on the screen but PETget got the job done.
Removing software doesn't appear to be possible at all. The first hurdle is finding the name of the package to be removed. I wanted to remove a couple of the calculators but a search for "*calc*" in all repositories returned just one result: "galculator" (which is interesting as it is the only calculator whose name doesn't match the string "calc"). The package couldn't be removed - clicking on the result would offer to install the application. PETget does list installed packages in a separate pane and clicking on those items enables you to remove a package but the list always showed the same 20-odd packages, whatever I queried.
I thought it might be easier to manage software from the command line. I found that there is a petget command but it looks like the utility simply opens the graphical PETget package manager to either install (petget +package-name) or remove (petget -package-name) software. Running "petget --help" therefore didn't return any help text - instead it offered to remove the package '-help'. As an aside, running "man petget" triggered a Google search for "man petget site:linux.die.net". The search yielded no results.

Quirky 8.6 -- Exploring the petget command
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My final attempt was to remove galculator by running the command "petget -galculator". I was hardly surprised when PETget told me it couldn't find the package.
Installing Quirky to the hard drive
It is possible to install Quirky to the hard drive via the Quirky Universal Installer. You've got two options: you can do a "full" or "frugal" install. I first had a look at the frugal install which, as I understand it, installs everything in a single file. The installer only offered to write the file to the USB stick from which Quirky was running, which didn't seem all that useful - I wanted to install Quirky to a spare partition on my hard drive.

Quirky 8.6 -- The Quirky Universal Installer
(full image size: 910kB, resolution: 1366x768 pixels)
I got a bit further with the full install. I could point the installer at the ISO image I had downloaded and select the destination partition from a drop-down menu, and after a few minutes I got a confirmation message that the installation had finished.
The real challenge, though, comes after the installation has finished as the installer doesn't configure the GRUB bootloader. The confirmation message explains what text you can add to the menu.lst file if you are using the GRUB4DOS bootloader but doesn't have anything to say about GRUB. Running os-prober from within Fedora retrieved Quirky Linux and running "grub2-mkconfig" appeared to add it to the GRUB menu - but after rebooting my laptop I found Quirky wasn't there. As I had little desire to install Quirky anyway I decided that the installer must still be a work in progress.
Conclusions
Much as I wanted to like Quirky, I found very little to like. The distro is developed by one person who is clearly very interested in the underlying technologies of Puppy Linux (in particular the WoofQ build system). If that is what you are interested in then Quirky is fantastic distribution and reading blog posts tagged with Quirky will be fascinating. However, if you are a mere mortal looking for a live distro that looks elegant and is functional then Quirky will be a disappointment.
Of course, Quirky is marketed as an experimental distribution. It is a pet project that no doubt benefits the family of Puppy distributions. Still, a little bit of information about the unusual file system hierarchy, the PETget package manager and installing Quirky to a hard drive would go a long way to help potential users. Similarly, a little bit of quality control and usability testing would make running Quirky much less frustrating. The fact that there is no documentation, no bug tracker and no community forum is telling.
The one good thing I have to say about Quirky is that the distro was very responsive. It took just over ten seconds to get to the desktop and all applications launched instantly. Other than that Quirky is a distro to avoid.
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Hardware used for this review
I ran Quirky on various devices but mainly used a Lenovo G50-30 laptop with the following specifications:
- Processor: Intel Celeron CPU N2820, 2.13GHz
- Memory: 4GB of RAM
- Wireless network adaptor: Realtek Semiconductor RTL8723BE
- Wired network adaptor: Realtek Semiconductor RTL8111
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Visitor supplied rating
Quirky has a visitor supplied average rating of: N/A from 0 review(s).
Have you used Quirky? You can leave your own review of the project on our ratings page.
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Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
Ubuntu plans extended support for 14.04, Linux Mint works on performance improvements, Lubuntu switches to LXQt
Canonical has announced the company plans to provide extended, commercial support for users of Ubuntu 14.04 LTS once the distribution reaches the end of its normal, five year support term. This will allow businesses to continue running Ubuntu 14.04 past the scheduled April 2019 cut-off date for security updates. The extended support term, called Extended Security Maintenance (ESM), will start in 2019: "Ubuntu 14.04 LTS - ESM will become available once Ubuntu 14.04 reaches its End of Life on April 30, 2019. ESM is a feature available as part of Canonical's commercial support package: Ubuntu Advantage. ESM can also be purchased on a stand-alone basis." The length of the ESM and its cost were not included in the blog post.
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The Linux Mint team, having published new versions of both the project's Ubuntu- and Debian-based branches, have turned their attention to working on new features and performance improvements. Two areas which have received a lot of attention are the Cinnamon desktop and the Nemo file manager. The distribution's monthly newsletter reports: "The star of the month within the Cinnamon team is Jason Hicks. Last month we talked about VSYNC, input lag and performance improvements within the Muffin window manager. This is now a reality and it's all been merged in preparation for Muffin 4.0. Input lag was reduced on NVIDIA cards and the window manager feels more responsive when moving windows. You now also have the possibility to turn off VSYNC in the System Settings. This basically delegates VSYNC to your GPU driver (which needs to handle it otherwise you get screen tearing) and if that driver performs well, it can eliminate input lag and boost performance. Jason also ported a huge amount of upstream changes from the GNOME project: Similar to Mutter, Muffin now uses its own embedded version of COGL and Clutter, which received most of the patches applied to the one in GNOME. Many Mutter performance improvements were applied to Muffin. CJS received many commits from GNOME's GJS, including improvements to its garbage collection."
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The Lubuntu team has been planning a migration from using the LXDE desktop to running LXQt as the default desktop for a while now. With Lubuntu 18.10 now on the horizon, the developers have made the switch official. "This is the first Lubuntu milestone to be released with LXQt as the main desktop environment. The Lubuntu project, in 18.10 and successive releases, will no longer support the LXDE desktop environment or tools, and will instead focus on the LXQt desktop environment." Additional information on Lubuntu's 18.10 Beta release can be found in the project's announcement.
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Dual booting Linux and FreeBSD
Exploring-two-operating-systems asks: I think a good topic for your Q&A section would be dual-booting BSDs (if you need a specific one FreeBSD would likely be best) and Linux. It's not something that is well documented on-line and many Linux users are at least somewhat interested in trying out BSDs.
DistroWatch answers: Most of the process of setting up a dual boot environment is fairly straight forward. The only tricky part, in my experience, has been in the initial planning phase. When you want to dual boot it is important to plan out how many partitions you will need, how big they will be and what will be put on each one.
For instance, if I want to dual boot Ubuntu and FreeBSD I will need at least two disk partitions (one for each operating system). I may also want swap space, perhaps a separate /home partition for Ubuntu (FreeBSD will probably keep a separate /home mount point inside its own partition). I may then also want a separate data partition where I can dump files to be transferred between the two operating systems. In the end, I may end up with a need for anywhere from two to five partitions for these two operating systems.
However many partitions we end up needing (and I am going to do this example assuming we just need two partitions, for simplicity's sake) it is important to keep track of which operating system is on which partition. For example, if we plan to set up our disk with a partition for Ubuntu, one for swap, and one for FreeBSD (in that order), then it is important to remember Ubuntu is going to be on partition #1 and FreeBSD will be on #3.
In the following walk through, I am going to assume we are installing Ubuntu first on one dedicated partition and then installing FreeBSD on the remaining disk space. This is as simple as it gets, but the steps will be the same in more complex arrangements.
I recommend installing the Linux distribution (Ubuntu in my case) first. In my case I will assume Ubuntu is being put on the first partition and taking up roughly half the disk. The rest of the disk will remain unallocated space. This can be done through Ubuntu's installer by taking the manual partitioning option and making the first partition the root (/) partition. Any other unused partitions should be deleted at this time. The rest of the installation process can be handled normally.
Once Ubuntu has been installed then we can install FreeBSD. Once again, we can take our normal (default) settings all the way through the FreeBSD installer, with the exception of the partitioning section. When it comes to partitioning on FreeBSD there are a few options: automatically set up a UFS file system, automatically set up a ZFS volume, or manually partition the disk. At this point we should create a FreeBSD partition (called a slice) and then place a root (/) UFS-formatted file system inside the FreeBSD partition. This places FreeBSD, in this example, on partition #2.
When FreeBSD is finished installing we can restart the computer and we should be automatically booted into Ubuntu. This is normal. Next we need to adjust Ubuntu's GRUB boot loader to recognize the FreeBSD system so it appears as a boot option. This can be done by opening the /etc/grub.d/40_custom text file and adding the following text to the bottom of the file, leaving the rest of the text alone. The bottom of the 40_custom file should read:
menuentry "FreeBSD" {
insmod ufs2
set root=(hd0,2)
chainloader +1
}
In the above example, the 2 in "(hd0,2)" is in bold. This is the partition number where FreeBSD lives. If FreeBSD were on the third partition, we would replace the 2 with a 3. This is why it is important to keep track of how many partitions we have and which operating system is on each partition.
Next we need to make sure the boot menu is displayed when the computer is turned on. Otherwise the system will always default to launching Ubuntu without giving us a chance to choose a different operating system. We can do this by opening another text file, /etc/defaults/grub, and deleting the line which reads "GRUB_TIMEOUT_STYLE=hidden".
The final step is to run the following command from Ubuntu's command line:
sudo update-grub
When the command finishes, we should be able to restart the computer and select either Ubuntu or FreeBSD from the GRUB menu.
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Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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Released Last Week |
pfSense 2.4.4
Jim Pingle has announced the availability of pfSense 2.4.4. The new release of the pfSense operating system for routers and firewalls is based on FreeBSD 11.2 and offers several new features: "2.4.4 includes a number of significant new features: OS Upgrade - base Operating System upgraded to FreeBSD 11.2-RELEASE-p3. As a part of moving to FreeBSD 11.2, support is included for C3000-based hardware. PHP 7.2 - PHP upgraded to version 7.2, which required numerous changes to syntax throughout the source code and packages. Routed IPsec (VTI) - routed IPsec is now possible using using FreeBSD if_ipsec(4) Virtual Tunnel Interfaces (VTI). IPsec Speed Improvements - the new Asynchronous Cryptography option under the IPsec Advanced Settings tab can dramatically improve IPsec performance on multi-core hardware. Default Gateway Group - the default gateway may now be configured using a Gateway Group setup for failover, which replaces Default Gateway Switching. Limiter AQM/Queue Schedulers - limiters now include support for several Active Queue Management (AQM) methods and Queue Scheduler configurations such as FQ_CODEL." Further details can be found in the project's release announcement and in the release notes.
KDE neon 20180925
Jonathan Riddell has announced that the KDE neon distribution has been upgraded and re-based to Ubuntu's latest long-term support release, version 18.04 "Bionic Beaver". KDE neon is a desktop-focused Linux distribution that provides the very latest KDE Plasma desktop on top of Ubuntu's base system. The users of KDE neon are encouraged to upgrade to the latest version via Ubuntu's built-in upgrade utility. From the release announcement: "The KDE neon team is proud to announce the rebase of our packages onto Ubuntu 18.04 LTS 'Bionic Beaver. We encourage all users to upgrade now. The installable ISOs and Docker images have also been updated to run on 18.04. KDE neon is a project to deliver KDE's wonderful suite of software quickly. We use modern DevOps techniques to automatically build, QA and deploy our packages. We work directly with the KDE community rather than staying far away in a separate project. Our packages are built on the latest Ubuntu LTS edition and today we have moved to their new 18.04 release. This means our users can get newer drivers and third-party packages. There is an upgrade process from the previous 16.04 LTS base which we have spent the last few months writing and running QA on to ensure it runs smoothly."

KDE neon 20180925 -- Running the Plasma desktop
(full image size: 1.2MB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
Robolinux 10.1
The Robolinux team has published a new version of their Ubuntu-based distribution. The new release is Robolinux 10.1 and is based on Ubuntu 18.04, bringing many package updates and support through to 2023. The new version is available in Cinnamon, MATE, and Xfce editions. "Robolinux has released its three brand new Raptor Series 10 Operating systems: Cinnamon, MATE 3D and Xfce v10.1 LTS 2023 versions. The Robolinux Series 10 versions are built upon Ubuntu 18.04 which comes with the 4.15 Linux kernel and a plethora of enhancements and improvements such as driver support for the newest hardware. The Robolinux Cinnamon & MATE 3D & Xfce 10.1 versions have free built in Stealth VM, C Drive to VM plus our one click app installers and also provide our users with free expert tech support. Each version has our users favorite apps already installed such as the newest Firefox, Thunderbird, Virtualbox, GIMP, LibreOffice 5, Deluge torrent downloader, Open VPN, VLC, Banshee, Kazam screen recorder, Synaptic, GParted, Brasero DVD Burner plus a few very popular utilities. The built in optional one click app installers include: Tor Browser, Tor Chat, BleachBit, Wireshark, I2P, Clam AntiVirus, Steam, Opera, Google Earth Pro and Google Chrome." See the project's Downloads page for further details.
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 1,037
- Total data uploaded: 21.2TB
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Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
Summary of expected upcoming releases
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Opinion Poll |
Booting multiple operating systems
This week we talked about setting up a dual boot environment in our Questions and Answers column. We would like to find out how many operating systems our readers typically multi-boot on their main computer. Do you have just one dedicated operating system, two, three, a dozen? Let us know why you dual boot in the comments.
You can see the results of our previous poll on running operating systems which no longer receive security patches in last week's edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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Booting multiple operating systems
I boot just one OS: | 992 (39%) |
I boot 2 OSes: | 856 (34%) |
I boot 3-5 OSes: | 542 (21%) |
I boot 6-10 OSes: | 97 (4%) |
I boot more than 10 OSes: | 58 (2%) |
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DistroWatch.com News |
DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 8 October 2018. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Article Search page. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
- Bruce Patterson (podcast)
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Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • multiple OSes (by pengxuin on 2018-10-01 00:35:15 GMT from New Zealand)
50 something partitions across 5 HDD, with /efi and /boot partitions. Yes, sometimes I boot in MBR mode.
all systems are dual partition (/ and /home), with shared /data partitions.
different OSes have tools that make them unique, or at least, perform better, in the various OSes. Also need to keep up with the changing landscape of Linux OSes.
2 • Multi-boot (by brad on 2018-10-01 00:37:35 GMT from United States)
I currently can boot three - Manjaro, Windows 10, and LMDE. Manjaro is my main driver, but I have Win 10 so that I can keep as current as I can, and help friends, colleages, and family with Win 10 "issues". LMDE (Cinnamon), because Cinnamon was my main DE for a long time, and I still like it, and want to stay familiar with it, in case any of my Windows acquaintances want to give up, or try something new.
3 • mutli-boot (by mcellius on 2018-10-01 00:39:21 GMT from Netherlands)
The number of OSes I have installed varies. One is the primary one, the main one I use for most thinga, but I'm usually testing others, too. The number varies and from time to time; I wipe them off and install others.
My main OS is Ubuntu - right now 18.04 - and I also am running the 18.10 beta for testing. Just yesterday I wiped off Fedora 28 and ArchLinux, both of which I had been testing, and tomorrow I'll probably install a couple new ones for testing (I'm thinking of Manjaro and Makulu). So yesterday I was multi-booting four, today it's two, and tomorrow it'll probably be four again.
I do it because I'm curious and love to learn what they're all like, but I'm not really interested in switching from Ubuntu, which I really like. However, I've learned a lot and appreciate the differences, as well as the similarities and commonalities (they are all much more alike than different).
4 • Multi-bootin' (by Brenton Horne on 2018-10-01 00:52:17 GMT from Australia)
Thanks for answering my question about multi-booting. Turns out I found this out by experience already, but I'm still grateful and I'm sure plenty of others will benefit from your fine answer :). I answered the poll based on the assumption that different Linux distros count as separate operating systems. I used to boot around 10 different distros at once, but the PC I had set this up on had a hardware fault that made it unusable. I've set up my new and present PC with a 5-OS boot (with 3 being distros: Arch, Gentoo and Tumbleweed; 1 being Windows 10 and the final one being FreeBSD 11.2).
5 • Multi-boot (by Harry on 2018-10-01 00:52:46 GMT from United States)
I have 4 computers with multi OP's. My main computer has Linux Mint 19 and Linux Mint 17.3. Reason being Mint 19 won't run some programs I use, and Mint 17.3 will.Next one has Linux Mint 17.3 and win 10. I only use win 10 for Quicken and it does not connect to the internet, since Microsoft has a major problem with updates. One has win 7 and PCLOS. Win 7 is for the grandkids and great grandkids to play games on, and it too is not connected to the internet, as I don't trust windows.
6 • Wiki software in Quirky (by Billy Larlad on 2018-10-01 00:57:37 GMT from United States)
Could anyone tell me what is the "personal wiki creator" in Quirky Linux? I'm intrigued, but I would rather not download the ISO just to find the name of one piece of software.
7 • Quirky's wiki creator (by Jesse on 2018-10-01 01:01:12 GMT from Canada)
@6: I think the wiki creator mentioned in the review is Didiwiki, it is available in the repos of most major distributions. http://didiwiki.wikidot.com/
8 • multi-boot (by DaveW on 2018-10-01 01:03:40 GMT from United States)
My daily driver is Mint 18.3. Arch is my backup just in case anything goes really wrong with Mint. I still have a Mint 16 partition because it is the only one I've found that can print to my Canon LBP-6000 laser printer. I also normally have 5 or 6 distros online for testing purposes.
9 • multi-boot (by Dean on 2018-10-01 01:03:53 GMT from Canada)
I use a non-traditional dual boot
my tower has a Vantec NexStar SE dual 2.5" drive bay, so when I want Windows 10 to play on Steam, Fortnite or update my Tom Tom, I shut down swap drives out and restart. 30 seconds to be in the other OS.
SSD's of course for OS's, files on 3.5" conventional drives
currently running Mint 18.3 with MATE, from time to time I'll test drive a different OS from USB
10 • Multi-boot (by jaws222 on 2018-10-01 01:17:23 GMT from United States)
I have several PC's and laptops which I multi-boot from. I usually cut up a hard drive with 3 partitions - Ubuntu, Debian and Arch distros(ocassionally Slackware, Gentoo or SolusOS) and a swap partition. If I boot alongside Windows 7 or 10 I put it on a separate ssd and then chainload through grub.
11 • Multibooting (by jonathon on 2018-10-01 01:53:06 GMT from Australia)
Hello, my name is Jonathon and I am a 'Distrohopper' My MBR SSD 120GB disk has 5 root partitions, 3 primary, 2 logical along with home which is a shared with each directory relating to a distro (lili6, mx2, solb1, u3u) with soft links from my main or favourite distro for my regularly used data. Linux Lite 4.2 beta is the main one, for now, the rest are MX 17, Solus 3.999 Budgie, Ubuntu 18.10 beta and not sharing home at the moment Haiku R1 beta1 (all x86_64) I am still looking for somewhere to settle, a project to stick to, I thought I had it but then systemd complicated things, BSD requires more patience and genuine learning than my skull contents is willing to commit to, but I'll keep trying.
12 • Multiboot (by Earlybird on 2018-10-01 02:08:30 GMT from Canada)
On main computer, just have one OS installed, usually Slackware (or, if I'm in a hurry, Salix. Also like Anti-X). This is because most of the time, I just need to get work done. These distros are reliable, consistant, and handle workflow my way.
For anything else, use a second PC, where I can do a multiboot, or simply swap-out drives as the case may be. That way, can experiment without any risk to my main system. Sometimes the best way to learn is to experiment, observe what happens, and blow things away after. While there are options such a running a virtual instance, may not be enough memory or resources on my older hardware. This keeps main system for daily work, clear of problems. Also, have reached point where there is really nothing I ever need to do in Windows, and on Linux, can run a stripped down system with only the needed apps. Less apps, less risk, fewer needed updates, and fewer resources needed.
Re the Quirky test review this week, it IS supposed to be the experimental platform, with Puppy being the stable, trouble-free solution. Still grateful for the review. Have found Puppy belongs in the rescue basket along with things like Clonezilla, SystemRescue, etc. The review answered questions, and saved time, confirming if you just need to get work done, Quirky is not the answer.
13 • Multiple OSs (by TheTKS on 2018-10-01 02:09:04 GMT from Canada)
Multi-booting Win, Linuxes and BSD. On main computer: Win10, Ubuntu 18.04 (which will probably be switched to Xubuntu 18.04 - I’ve given GNOME DE a fair shot, just don’t like it), Slackware 14.2 and elementary 0.4.1 Loki. On 2nd computer: soon to be only OpenBSD 6.4, once it’s released (have had OBSD on VM and SD card on other computers), replacing Xubuntu 16.04.
Occasionally run Puppies Slacko and Xenial, and Tiny Core on the 2nd computer.
I’m trying out something else, with so many installed OSs, to see how it works out: keep online purchases to one OS, design and multimedia to another, and everything else to a 3rd.
Win10 gets used mostly... to update Win10.
TKS
14 • Forget about dual-boot... (by WantedToUseBSDButCant on 2018-10-01 02:23:43 GMT from Philippines)
Wanted to migrate to FreeBSD but i cant even get to mount my local partitions, including ntfs from either xfce or gnome's file managers
15 • Multiboot (by Sofia smith on 2018-10-01 02:49:27 GMT from United States)
Arch with kde + fedora with gnome + debian sid with cinnamon + w10. Arch linux for all purposes, others to try different things. W10 is useless.
16 • MultiBoot (by Mike on 2018-10-01 02:52:19 GMT from United States)
I use two Linux Systems. Mint Cinnamon and Zorin. Mint is my primary system, but there are two Windows games I use Crossover for in Zorin that will not boot up in Mint (or anything else I've tried). I play board and card games, and Linux really doesn't compare to the Hoyle Cards and Hoyle Board Games I've been playing for over ten years. Wine quit working on them a year ago, so it's probably their age that's the culprit, but I've not found anything that compares to them.
17 • Multi-boot 10+ operating systems, on one Notebook. (by Greg Zeng on 2018-10-01 03:21:19 GMT from Australia)
Good to see so many here are running 10+ operating systems, with multi-booting. It's so easy to do with Linux, that it should be standard.
My main system: Four versions of Windows, plus up to ten versions of Linux. Have done, ever since I had my 2013 Dell Notebook XPS-15. The motherboard's HDD is now 14 terabytes, but the old SSD is a Samsung terabyte EVO 840 SSD (m2). Since the HDD is slow, it only has one Windows partition, plus Data & Archive partitions. Having at least two physical drives, each with its own "Boot" partition is absolutely needed. These Boot partitions are so easily corrupted. The SSD has the other partitions. Except for the Linux boot partitions, all partitions are in the Microsoft NTFS-compressed format. The open-source NTFS is not used. All 14 operating systems are accessed easily & quickly with Linux's "grub-customizer", or its Linux equivalent. No virtualization is used at all. No CLI is used. Just standard Linux GUI.
The major advantage is speed, reliability & easy debugging. All 14 operating systems use the same backup, data & archive partitions. The backup partitions include online storage (small crtital data) and off-line (USB3 usually. Running & maintaining 14 separate operating systems is a boring & tedious pain. So generally I just keep two of these updated.
18 • MultiBoot (by Ted on 2018-10-01 04:18:42 GMT from Australia)
I use Linux and Windows but have them on separate drives, Use Grub to boot them. I don't trust windows on a drive with anything else.
19 • multi-bootin (by Phil on 2018-10-01 05:10:45 GMT from New Zealand)
When I started seriously shifting over to Linux (Ubuntu and soon Mint) about a decade ago, I dual-booted with XP. After a year or two I found I was booting into Mint over 90% of the time, only going 'back' for one or two applications that I had paid for which did not have workable equivalents in Linuxland (and still don't really). So about 7-8 years ago I took the deep dive, reinstalled 100% on Mint and never looked back. Wine and VMs handle my crazy exceptions (3D stereo photos and assembling panoramas - Hugin is great but far too technical and finicky for use by a creative).
The sheer number of desktop managers today is staggering! Back when you had KDE and Gnome. Now you have those, plus 20 or more! MATE from Gnome2, as is Cinnamon - both thanks to the Mint guys. I find Ubuntu MATE to be more flagship and stable than the 'main' Ubuntu! There's i3, Budgie, lxQt replacing Lxde (I get all those letters messed up every time), Xfce, JWM, etc. It could make for an interesting DistroWatch weekly to write up a short overview of all the available desktop managers and their pros and cons. When I test a distro/desktop combo one of the tests is the file manager - seems one per desktop manager! Amongst other criteria, one "deal-breaker" I look at is dual-pane mode: yes, or no.
20 • multi-booting (by pin on 2018-10-01 06:17:06 GMT from Sweden)
I use 3 different OS's but have them is 3 different laptops, so I voted singel boot ;) I don’t give a damn about DE's as I only use awesome wm on my systems.
21 • poly-boot (by zykoda on 2018-10-01 06:36:15 GMT from United Kingdom)
Applications may require specific OS. Application requirements make it easier to poly-boot rather than resolve mutual conflicts. Specific graphics driver can be required (eg for cuda). It is also the fastest and lowest resource method to boot live isos from hard drive using GRUB2. VMs can be useful.
22 • Multi-boot (by Ken on 2018-10-01 07:15:38 GMT from United States)
For a long time my desktop was dual boot between Windows 7/10 and then either Mint, Trisquel, Parabola, and now finally Manjaro. Just this year I finally jettisoned Windows, having no more need of it now that I can play LotRO and ESO in GNU/Linux with Wine and DXVK. For the first time in a decade, I'm single-boot only on both my desktop and laptop!
23 • Multi-Boot (by Sauron on 2018-10-01 07:42:49 GMT from United Kingdom)
I have several machines that multi-boot but all OS's are on their own hard drive, I use the the BIOS boot menu to choose which OS to boot from. This greatly simplifies things if a drive has to be swapped out due to failure or whatever, it also makes it a lot easier to add other OS's by just adding another drive.
24 • @ Rijkhoff Quirky review (by Pierre on 2018-10-01 07:53:55 GMT from United Kingdom)
"As I was not that familiar with Puppy I read most of the blog posts with the Quirky tag. The blog posts are rather technical and aimed at people interested in the underlying technologies. If, like me, you would like an overview of how to use the distro on a day-to-day basis then you are out of luck."
It would've been better to look in Puppy Linux forums a bit, before trying to review a distro that is not something like Fedora or Ubuntu. And, also use it for a while, Puppy and Quirky both.
"The distro is developed by one person who is clearly very interested in the underlying technologies of Puppy Linux (in particular the WoofQ build system)."
The above tells that Rijkhoff had never used Puppy before and doesn't know the long history of Puppy and Quirky. It would be better for the reviewer to learn about Barry Kauler and the history of that distro from 2003!
25 • Quirky & multi-boot. (by Sondar on 2018-10-01 08:14:18 GMT from United Kingdom)
Shame about the Quirky review. It helps if one has followed the Puppy story. Robert does say he's a neophyte in this connection and that can be a problem. However, there IS a Forum at http://murga-linux.com/puppy/index.php which has been running very effectively for over a decade and he will find many of the answers and explanations he needs therein. Never liked dual (duel?!)/multi-booting, not least because one loses everything when the technology fails, as it is destined to do after some MTBF factor. With the machinery so cheap, why not have one PC for each OS? Even better, use a caddy for PCs, or pluggable USB/SD/USB-SD adapters for each distro. Use another USB, etc for mobile data transport between OSes. Always a better solution depending on personal requirements.
26 • Multi-boot (by Luca on 2018-10-01 08:41:21 GMT from Italy)
I run Manjaro Linux as my daily driver. I've kept the original Windows 10 installation that came with my PC, and I seldom boot it, mainly to use Microsoft Publisher 2010 - it almost works under Wine, but unfortunately it crashes on font selection. Would this issue be fixed, I'd never need to boot Windows anymore.
27 • Multiboot (by Alexandru on 2018-10-01 09:39:54 GMT from Romania)
I have a configuration with 2 HDDs and 7 OSes. One HDD is used exclusively for OSes and another exclusively for user data (one partition for each user). The OSes are as follows: - Windows - OpenIndiana - FreeBSD - Debian Linux - OSX86 - Haiku - Android x86
It is more practically for my purposes to boot all them via GRUB2 installed stand-alone on separate partition (from SuperGrubDisk2) and install each OS without any bootloader. I manually adjust GRUB when necessary.
As for sharing the data partitions among the OSes, I found it tricky to choose the right filesystem to be easily accessible from each OS. So I added a NAS storage and configured NFS/SMB on it, which is auto-mounted on Unixes and is easy to access from other OSes. Unfortunately, the per-user data partitions are not implemented this way.
28 • dualboot (by mes on 2018-10-01 10:42:08 GMT from Netherlands)
I do not dualboot anymore. For me working with one os (now kubuntu) and several VM's works fine.
I do an extra disk with lite os installed that I can plug in in a caddy.. Just in case something bad happens with my main os. But that almost never happens.
29 • One de three oses (by avelinus on 2018-10-01 10:45:18 GMT from Portugal)
I run Fedora 29 Linux as my daily driver. I kept the original installation of Windows 10 that came with my PC, and I initialize, mainly to make my IRS, my tax return. I have Mageia 6 Os to prevent rescues. Mageia still maintains a root account to work with.
30 • Multi OS (by Marc on 2018-10-01 10:58:13 GMT from Australia)
I run proxmox to try different OS's, a laptop that dual boots win10 and ubuntu also a laptop, runs debian or I swap the hard drive for FreeBSD
31 • Ubuntu and FreeBSD (by Andre on 2018-10-01 11:32:53 GMT from Canada)
If you're going to dual-boot Ubuntu and FreeBSD, specifically, I'd recommend being adventurous and using ZFS on both. I had those particular systems co-habiting a shared zpool for a couple of years and it was awesome. I could easily boot into either OS and mingle with the files and datasets of the other.
On a different-but-related topic, I kind of wish UEFI implementations didn't suck so much (or the alternatives took off). Bootloader agnosticism is great for those interested in running multiple operating systems on one machine; but, man, is there a lot of jumping through hoops that still needs to be done to do so nowadays.
32 • Reply on #26 (multiboot) (by Marc Visscher on 2018-10-01 11:49:45 GMT from Netherlands)
You wrote you only boot on Windows 10 to use Microsoft Publisher 2010. Did you know that you can make projects with the same results (or better) with LibreOffice Draw?
33 • Multi-boot is a bit too expensive for me (by Clicktician on 2018-10-01 11:55:49 GMT from United States)
Providing financial support for the distro and apps I use is expensive enough. I simply cannot afford reasonable compensation for 5, 10, or 50 distros, especially ones I wouldn't use on a regular basis.
34 • Quirky review (by Kazano on 2018-10-01 11:57:09 GMT from United Kingdom)
A review by a complete noob on Puppy systems. The guy didn't know how Puppy Linux happened 15 years ago, and why Quirky happened later. Lot of bad reviews lately in Distrowatch!
35 • @ 27 OSX86 (by Linn on 2018-10-01 12:13:53 GMT from France)
Interesting how you put OSX86 in that hard disk. Could you let us know?
36 • Quirky review (by DaveT on 2018-10-01 12:26:30 GMT from United Kingdom)
To those whingeing about the Quirky review - It shouldn't be necessary to read through 15 years of history to get a distro up and running. It should 'just work', and if it doesn't, it's crap. End of. Some distros are 'big boys toys', most of the BSDs for example - ignore the docs at your peril! I gave up dual-booting many years ago. I run BSDs when I can, and devuan when linux plays nicer than BSD. Microsoft and Apple products are not permitted in my house.
37 • @24, 25 and 34 (Quirky review) (by Robert Rijkhoff on 2018-10-01 12:34:44 GMT from Netherlands)
I think the fact that there's a link to the (non-existing) documentation on the Quirky home page shows that it is quite common and desirable for Linux distros to provide a little bit of information for both new and existing users. You're correct that there's a link on the Quirky home page to the Puppy Linux forums. However, to me it doesn't seem all that useful to direct a new user to a forum of a related distro. The point I made was that - for new users - Quirky's documentation is as poor as it gets. And to be fair to Quirky I also pointed out that the distro describes itself as "experimental". I think that's a fair conclusion.
The fact that I don't know "the long history of Puppy and Quirky" is irrelevant (since when are only existing users to write reviews?). What is important is that issues I encountered are reproducible (my experience with the package manager, for instance) and that subjective opinions are clearly subjective (i.e. the interface). I do take the point that long-term / experienced users may easily overcome the issues I ran into. However, the review is targeted and potential users rather than existing power users.
38 • @34: (by dragonmouth on 2018-10-01 12:51:48 GMT from United States)
A distro review by someone who is thoroughly familiar with it is not of very much value. He may gloss over some problems or assume that everyone knows the work-arounds. OTOH, someone who is installing a distro for the first time will see any problems that other first timers will face. A good distro is one that can be installed and used without any problems out of the box by those unfamiliar with it. Quirky apparently is just that, quirky, and not a good distro for someone not familiar with its idiosyncrasies.
39 • Multiboot (by zhymm on 2018-10-01 12:57:03 GMT from United States)
Years ago when I was in furious distro-hop mode I would be set up to multiboot several OS's, initially Windows XP + various linux distro's I was "testing". Dropped Windows altogether in 2006 but kept the multiboot setup for several years as I "hopped" around.
Today, I just want something that works so I can "get things done" rather than experiment with several distributions. So, at the moment my main box runs Manjaro only. I do keep a separate box set up to "test" other OS's that catch my interest now and then (does that count as multiboot??). I chose the "one OS" option in the poll.
OMZ
40 • Multi-Boot (by jaws222 on 2018-10-01 14:44:25 GMT from United States)
WOW! i was told by someone that I had issues - an OS addiction. Glad to see there are others worse than me!
41 • Slots for 12 distros (by Flavio R. Cavalcanti on 2018-10-01 13:43:54 GMT from Brazil)
I have 12 "slots" (/, /home, Swap) in order to install up to 12 Linux distros without mutual interference ─ and also 3 data partitions + 2 data backups ─ among 3 HDDs + 1 SSD, all BIOS / MBR.
KDE Neon User Edition (still 16.04 LTS) Mageia Debian testing Kubuntu 16.04 LTS openSUSE Leap 15 PCLOS Mint 18 Slackware Arch Linux Fedora LMDE 3 Devuan 2
The most useful are the *buntu ones, as I have used them for 10 years ─ but nothing after Xenial 16.04 LTS worked fine, because of old hardware.
Main Grub is controlled by Mageia; and openSUSE has its own Grub for the case I could need to run a snapshot.
Fedora and LMDE 3 are trials and may be replaced, e.g., by OsGeoLive.
42 • Quirky review (by jol25 on 2018-10-01 13:44:18 GMT from Europe)
I don't know if Barry will give this review a look or drop a comment, anyway do not expect from this distro what is expectable from final users one. Let's quote Barry's blog: "Furthermore, Quirky and EasyOS are very much just hobbies. I'm not really interested whether they become mainline or widely-adopted distributions. So, I am not trying to develop them toward suitability for a wide user-base. On the otherhand, if a wider user-base find them useful, that's OK also. My interest is in the technology, just to play around with ideas, and have something usable for myself, and usable also for those involved in providing feedback and testing."
So considering this, results of the review are completely expected. A puppy should have been reviewed instead, which is much more end-user oriented.
Please compare what is comparable.
43 • Multi-booting (by Bobbie Sellers on 2018-10-01 14:15:11 GMT from United States)
Well not too long ago I used a old laptop to test multiple distros booting up to 5 differing OSes on the same 500 GB disk.
Some distros tended to take over the Grub2 and ignore the previously installed distributions. I used Super Grub Disk2 to get to my other distributions and then ran one to update the more generic Grub2 they used. That $100 machine has since died of old age(I presume).
My first Linux install was a dual-boot with XP® on a 30 GB hard disk. I have done several dual boots since then on Vista, Windows 7 and 8.1. If I ever have the chance to get a more modern computer I will probably do the same things again unless I can get it without Windows.
44 • Multi-Booting (by Bill S on 2018-10-01 15:38:00 GMT from United States)
Main distro is Mint Mate 19.1, I've been running it for over 7 days without needing a reboot, so for me it is very stable. In addition I have Cinnamon 19.1, Q4OS (it's just a cool trinity distro), Mint KDE 18.3 as a farewell to the last good KDE, and Windows 10 just to stay up on the empire. Thanks to Distrowatch which has helped me through my distro hopping days into a much more stable Linux life. ;-)
45 • Poll (by cykodrone on 2018-10-01 16:07:55 GMT from Canada)
I voted three or more, two machine installed and the occasional live privacy distro. Both drives have grub, both independently maintained and updated, I can never not boot my machine. :)
46 • Dual Booting (by Sananab on 2018-10-01 17:09:48 GMT from Canada)
I put that I boot one OS. I still have a Windows partition on this laptop, but I don't game much anymore, and Steam has more than enough Linux games to keep me busy, so I haven't actually booted into Windows in about a year and a half.
47 • Quirky review (by SM on 2018-10-01 17:15:20 GMT from Canada)
After reading some other opinions about the Quirky review I wanted to add to them. True, it would have been more useful to review a Puppy Linux version because Puppy is more ready for a daily use distro than the experimental Quirky. LXpup has been on the Distrowatch waiting list since 2012. Reviewing that would been have much better. I have been using some version of Puppy as my only daily OS for about for about 8 years. I currently have the Slacko (slackware 14.2 based) version 6.9.6.4 and the Debian 9 based version Dpup Stretch 7.5, so yes, I dual boot. Both versions I have added LXDE as the DE. I use 3 computers, all have some age to them (originally bought with WIN Vista installed), so having a distro light on resources is very important. That is where Puppy excels. Both Puppy distros boot up with memory usage around in the low 90's MB and and CPU usage 3% or less. To those that are more familiar with Puppy will know that many times installing a PET package works better than going through the repository in the Puppy Package Manager, e.g., Slackware or Ubuntu repositories. We should not hold the reviewer at fault for not being more familiar with Quirky since we can tell he is not familiar with Puppy either. Yes, Puppy may be a little different than some other distros in installing packages or removing built-in packages, but with no experience with Puppy his review on Quirky probably applies to someone that has only used some other main distro. I too am not that fond of Quirky when comparing to Puppy. Let me add that Puppy can run many Windows apps using WINE. My wife likes MS Office and some Win games which runs flawlessly. I have remastered several Puppy's over the years to my exact liking. Too bad LXpup has been on the waiting list for 6 years and Quirky was chosen to review instead.
48 • Quirky, Puppy and Relatives (by Emil on 2018-10-01 17:27:22 GMT from Austria)
I read the review of Quirky Linux with interest and nostalgic feelings, because Puppy Linux was my first working Linux experience. I don't use it any more, but I fondly remember the times when I was "dual booting" over ten different variants.
I think the review puts quirky in a nutshell from normal end user perspective, but it also reflects inadequate PR and communication of the Puppy Linux community as a whole. Since the time Barry Kauler stepped down from the helm of the project as its "benevolent dictator" a community project emerged and produced some very polished new Puppy Linux versions (aka puppies), but those people never made it into the limelight and new puppies rarly (never?) were announced here on distrowatch. Instead every version of Quirky (which is officially a private Barry Kauler experimental pet project) was announced here. No wonder Puppy Linux dropped from a top 10 ranking distro somewhere near Nirwana.
I think the Puppy Linux family still has its merrits, as simple distro and live system. The ideosyncratic language (all about dogs and animals) and some peculiar design decissions may be a burden, but I think reviews on the latest official puppy (XenialPup) and also on the most prominent offshot DebianDog (interesting blend of Debian live, Porteus and Puppy) would be informative to the broader linux community.
49 • Multi-booting (by Steve L on 2018-10-01 17:17:23 GMT from United States)
I voted for just one OS as I've never been comfortable with multi-booting setups. I've always found them to be too clumsy for my needs. So I (currently) boot a single OS on four different systems...
- win 7 on the newest quad core I built a couple of years ago
- pclinuxos on the older dual core I built several years ago
- tiny core linux on my 20 year old laptop
- freebsd on a raspberrry pi (as my home server)
Going a bit off topic... getting hooked up with UNIX in the early 90's and the ability to work with multiple systems from a single desktop (using xterm) was so much easier than rebooting every time I wanted to work with a different system. I believe that impacted my perception of multi-booting.
And going way off topic... then there was ease of connecting to systems scattered around the globe... so much cleaner. faster and easier using the command line instead of graphical remote interfaces (not that dual booting is practical over the network anyway). Though I did find X Window a bit better at remote than anything I've used with M$ windows, it's still clumsier (and clunkier) than a command line.
Just my personal opinion.
50 • @37 (by Bibik on 2018-10-01 17:43:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
"The fact that I don't know "the long history of Puppy and Quirky" is irrelevant"
Not exactly, for not knowing that "long history" brought you to your wrong conclusions. Puppy Linux is still going on, and by the community. Quirky, on the other hand is an experimental work by Barry Kauler, who had retired from Puppy Linux creation. At least that should've been known to the reviewer.
Quirky is not a mainstream distro, but a pet job by the "former" creator of Puppy Linux. So, its better, if you'd review a Puppy Linux "derivative" the next time, than reviewing something, you don't really understand. Also, have a look at Murga Forum.
51 • Quirky review (by Jesse on 2018-10-01 17:46:00 GMT from Canada)
@50: Not only did the reviewer know the points you brought up, those same points are stated in the opening paragraph.
52 • My poll option isn't listed. (by Sctt on 2018-10-01 17:47:31 GMT from United States)
I don't boot with any operating systems. Look it up, there is a new way to load OS' without booting.
53 • multi-boot multi-machine (by mmphosis on 2018-10-01 18:00:04 GMT from Dominican Republic)
The machine I type on used to have Win10 which was unbearable! It was so slow and plagued with those updates that run when you least want them too. I wiped off Win10, and have been running Xubuntu 16.04 only and it works like a charm.
Another machine, has lots of disk space, so I multi-boot Xubuntu and other distros that I try and then remove. It still has Win8 that I could boot into -- when we bought the machine the person at costco assured us that Win8 was the best and easiest and we wouldn't have any problems. Not.
PowerPC Macs: Mac OS X 10.5 or Mac OS X 10.4 or netboot a Mac OS X. I have an external drive with separate Mac partitions to boot various Mac OS X if I needed to. I am more interested in trying some PowerPC Linux distros on the old PowerPC Macs.
Phones and Tablet. All the phones and tablet seem to single boot a borked Google distro call Android that wants ALL of your data. Anyway to multi-boot a phone? Or even single boot a better OS?
54 • @ 51 (by Bibik on 2018-10-01 18:01:17 GMT from United Kingdom)
"As I was not that familiar with Puppy I read most of the blog posts with the Quirky tag."
First, the reviewer should try to use and understand a Puppy Linux derivative, before trying to review a Qiurky.
55 • Dual (Multiple) Booting (by John P on 2018-10-01 18:30:04 GMT from United Kingdom)
Started dual booting Windows XP with Mandrake Linux back in 2005. Had tried Mandrake, and was really impressed with it's professional looks and stability, but couldn't migrate totally from Windows as there was a specialist programme that I needed, and I couldn't at first get my dial-up modem to work under Mandrake. Once I'd sorted the modem problem, I installed Mandrake permanently and got rid of Windows - but ran it within Virtualbox. Eventually found a superior specialist programme (Musescore) - and now I only run GNU/Linux (Mint 18 XFCE with Compiz).
Have a spare computer which has 16 distros installed, and which I use for evaluation purposes. Currently all are deb based, but I usually have an Arch or RPM based distro as well. Currently I have XFCE, KDE, Cinnamon, MATE, Budgie, LXQt, LXDE and GNome desktops.
Recently tried to use a Windows computer, but gave up when it said "Let's set up Windows", and I thought "No, let's not bother!", and I wiped the drive and installed Xubuntu instead.
56 • Booting multiple operating systems (by fox on 2018-10-01 20:28:32 GMT from Canada)
I am a Mac user who switched to Linux about three years ago. I still use mostly Macs, and all of my computers are dual or multi-boot. On my office desktop (2015 iMac), I have Linux Mint 19 as my main OS, installed on the internal SSD, with MacOS Sierra on the internal HD, along with Ubuntu 18.04. On my home desktop (2011 iMac), I use Ubuntu 18.04 as my main OS, I have two other OSes installed on either the internal or external SSD, the others being MacOS High Sierra and openSUSE Leap 15 (the latter for testing only). I also have a Dell xps 13. On that one, Ubuntu 18.04 is my main OS, but I also have Windows 10, Pop_OS! and Arch (the latter two for testing). I enjoy trying out other OSes, but have mostly stuck with Ubuntu for regular work. Unfortunately, I occasionally need software that runs on the Mac OS or Windows, so I have to boot in them occasionally. My use of Mint came about when Ubuntu and most other distros wouldn't boot up on the high-res iMac without either "nomodeset" or a 5 minute boot-up time. Mint 18 was the sole exception, but kernel 4.15 or higher took care of that problem, and now I can boot up almost any modern distro on that iMac. But I got to like Mint cinnamon on decided to stick with it.
57 • Dual what now? (by CS on 2018-10-01 20:31:44 GMT from United States)
Booting your computer is like paying your taxes, it's best when you only need to do it once every year or so. Need a second OS? Put it on one of those 4 or 5 spare computers lying around.
Also I didn't read the Quirky review (with a name like that you know the developer is just wasting your time) but it was obvious the reviewer was trying awfully damn hard to like it. Reading the fanbase reaction I think "most toxic user community" has a strong contender.
58 • Multiple Operating Systems (by GreginNC on 2018-10-01 20:52:21 GMT from Canada)
I've multi-booted since I started using Linux around 2005 or 2006. Initially I would have 5 or 6 OSes on each of my 3 desktops and 3 on my laptop booted by chainloading from the Grub legacy from my anchor system. Nowadays I just boot Slackware on all my systems dual booted with Win7 for games. I also no longer chainload and instead have each on their own hard drive and use the computers boot menu to choose which hard drive to boot.
59 • Quirky, multi-boot (by mikef90000 on 2018-10-01 21:32:33 GMT from United States)
The Quirky review reminds me of why I don't use Puppy (its more well developed cousin). I don't care for anything without a decent package manager and other utilities to restore normality. Example - I could never find how to restore a Puppy desktop after mistakenly removing most of the icons.
Getting familiar with gparted and grub2 in a VM reduces the fear factor of installing multiboot. Besides a Gparted live stick, be sure to have one with Super Grub Disk 2 available in case the grub install gets borked (easy to do accidently).
Too bad Grub2 is still pretty brain dead about running Windows or DOS from a second disk - it was working for me years ago but recently WinXP absolutely would not run until I moved it to the first disk (sda). Same with FreeDOS. Sorry, I'm tired of playing with custom Grub scripts.
60 • Multiboot (by Ron on 2018-10-01 21:38:50 GMT from United States)
I gave Windows 10 the boot -- not "A" boot but THE boot. Booted it to nether land. It came with the notebook I bought at a good sale price; I'm really hacked that I must have paid something for the OS that came with it. The notebook was soooo slow with W10 that I considered it useless. Now I have one OS, MX-Linux, and love it. The machine is fast like it should be. I also have MX-Linux on one desktop and on one USB stick just because. I still have an old legacy Windows "Hardly remember the version I use it so seldom) installed on an old 32 bit desktop because my HP scanner has NO software for Linux. In case you wonder if I will ever buy another HP device, well, you take a guess! Now as far as that horrid UEFI that W/Intel cursed us with, shame, shame, shame.
61 • Dual booting or whatever (by Aleksy on 2018-10-01 21:46:51 GMT from United Kingdom)
I have one laptop only for Linux. It usually has 8-10 distros at a given time with usually a Debian/Ubuntu based distro to keep the grub going. Some non-deb distros are installed using chroot, not the distro's installer.
All other laptops, tablets, 2 in 1s have Windows 10 and the laptops usually have few Linux distros additionally. Lately, I am only testing Linux distros, sometimes creating my own live isos, which is a hobby. I don't use them for work any more. Some guy out here might get mad at me for saying that, but Linux distros had become somewhat boring these days, so my not using them for work any more. But, I test them. It is just like people, who use Linux distro in the evenings and in the weekends, after a week of using Windows at work. Only difference is that I say openly about it.
62 • @61 (by Ikkam on 2018-10-01 21:56:23 GMT from United Kingdom)
I can also openly admit that I use Windows 10 the whole week, and sometimes even on Saturdays for work, and play. I have few Linux distros dual booting in my laptop, which I use from time to time, mostly in the evening.
63 • multi boot (by jeffrydada on 2018-10-01 21:57:14 GMT from United States)
I usually have 1 main OS that I use for day to day tasks, email, web surfing, text editing you know, the basic things we use computers for daily. Currently on my laptop is Korora 28 community edition. I am testing Fedora 29 on a separate partition and file bug reports when I have time and find them. My desktop runs my recording studio which is currently AV linux, I have a partition to test Ubuntu Studio 18.10, and a partition to test the latest nightly build of Magiea that I also file bug reports on. Lastly I keep a current version of KDE NEON that is my media center It maintains my plex media server that my Fire TV's can connect to to watch movies and listen to music. Eventually I want to put this on a dedicated system so that when I'm recording or working with Magiea I don't shut down my media system. I've had as many as 5 OSes running on my desktop but Grub works better with 3. Laptop is an Acer V5 with 12 gb ram and 2 tb HDD. Desktop is an HP SFF with 16 gb ram and 16 TB storage with a Drobo running backup also with 16 tb of storage.
64 • Multi-booting vs VMs (by Me on 2018-10-01 22:18:42 GMT from United Kingdom)
I'm surprised (actually no I'm not, it's Distrowatch :) ) that so many people seem to have tons of OSes multibooting. Why do you need this? If you're just testing something out, why not just use VMs, which are easy enough to deploy? I prefer to reclaim the space once I'm done.
My work laptop runs Manjaro (with LUKS) and Windows 7 (with Veracrypt) which wasn't the easiest to set up. I use the latter when I absolutely need Windows, like when I turn up in a conference room and there's some crappy Windows app for connecting to the screen.
My main PC at home is for games and runs Windows 7 (still not found a reason to use anything more recent) and I also have an HDD with ESX 6.5 on it - I occasionally need it for work and it's the only machine I have with a decent amount of RAM (32 GB).
Everything else is single-boot - mostly Arch, apart from a Pi3 with OSMC. I do use RedHat, OEL and Suse for work stuff but always in VMs, which I snap, trash and build frequently.
65 • Untrained Puppy. (by Angel on 2018-10-01 22:23:10 GMT from Philippines)
"First, the reviewer should try to use and understand a Puppy Linux derivative, before trying to review a Qiurky."
Why? Perhaps better not to bother reviewing Puppies at all, and avoid all the barking.
66 • multi boot addendum (by jeffrydada on 2018-10-01 23:20:39 GMT from United States)
btw I use Windows 10 at work. I hate it. That's why my home is linux only. We want OSes that just work. M$ doesn't care about what we think or need an OS to do. My wife uses Mint and she is a pro photograher. My 13 year old daughter uses Voyager for home school and digital art work, she also provides feedback to the Voyager team, she dual boots her Lenovo lapto with IRO Linux hoping the developer can get out of the alpha stage..
67 • multiboot (by krell on 2018-10-01 23:33:17 GMT from Thailand)
Re 64
I would use VMs but my old laptop is a B960 cpu and does not upport the virtuliztion tech VT-_ something that is needed for virtua;box or Vmware. If I had an i3 all would be OK.
68 • Multiboot (by Robert on 2018-10-01 23:45:28 GMT from United States)
I used to be big on multibooting. At one point I had LFS, arch, opensuse, freebsd, openbsd, dragonfly bsd, and XP across 2 disks.
Then I started using virtual box for everything but one Linux install (variable) and a version of Windows.
Now I single boot Manjaro and run Win10 inKVM for games, and that's it.
69 • No multiboot (by Jay on 2018-10-02 00:28:44 GMT from Belgium)
I stopped ten years ago using multiboot. Now I am using docks to swap the HD's and or SSD's for another OS. Mainly I run Linux Mint 18.3 or 19 both Mate and test other OS. I have always extra HD's for spare OS when something go's wrong. Just pop them in and you are running again, solve the problem for when I have time.
70 • Quirky (by RJA on 2018-10-02 01:16:42 GMT from United States)
I'm stunned that the installer has zero option to install the boot loader, because, even though this is an experimental branch, I never had an issue like that, when Barry Kahler was running the show.
71 • @67 about earlier Core CPUs not having VT (by RJA on 2018-10-02 01:18:58 GMT from United States)
Intel, especially in the early Core days, decided that virtualization tech is a luxury!
While AMD had virtualization tech on pretty much every processor. This was particularly noticeable in the Core 2 era!
72 • @67 about earlier Core CPUs not having VT (by RJA on 2018-10-02 01:10:58 GMT from United States)
Intel, especially in the early Core days, decided that virtualization tech is a luxury!
While AMD had virtualization tech on pretty much every processor. This was particularly noticeable in the Core 2 era!
73 • Re: 42 Grub (by More Gee on 2018-10-02 02:04:22 GMT from United States)
Back in the day your boot loader would reside in a windows partition. first thing I would do is copy various versions of puppy/quirky to folders on the c: drive. I would then run the grub repair from a live CD and it would find all the puppy versions and make a grub menu. You just had to sometimes make sure the save file was saved to the right folder or they could get crossed up. This would also work if you installed a distro that would use grub 2 or did not detect that you had windows or puppy. If the grub 2 distro would not boot with grub I could set a menu option to go from grub 2 in MBR to grub installed on the windows partition.
74 • Quirky (by chalekorea on 2018-10-02 02:18:54 GMT from Philippines)
To all those that say the reviewer should be familiar with Puppy or one of it's distros before reviewing Quirky - Do Mint, LinuxLite or any of the other Ubuntu derivatives users need to know Ubuntu first?? NO NO NO. So don't use that as an excuse. I have used Puppy on a net book, works great. However, Puppy package management for someone that is use to 'apt' is like talking a foreign language. Same goes for 'rpm'. They all strive to do the same thing but do it differentially. You have to be 'multilingual' if want to understand all distros. That is for the Pros not those who want an easy to use distro for everyday use. And, in my opinion(everyone as one), DistroWatch reviews are an attempt to help us everyday users find a good distro and not waste our time with trash.
75 • Quirky (by 01101001b on 2018-10-02 03:18:36 GMT from Argentina)
@65 That's a blunt, stupid conclusion. Puppy Linux derivatives are masterpieces by their own right BUT quite different from "standard" distros... and Quirky is even farther. So it's little surprise they're not (and never will be) fully adopted. And for me, that is a relief, because loads of inept, weeping lazy users destroy any distro (look at Ubuntu, even Google ditched it).
I, like everybody else, have been trying for years different standard distros and derivatives, some of them now defunct. All of them great in their own way but I never was truly comfortable using any of them.
Finding Puppy was a miracle in itself. However, I understood inmediately that because it's SO different, it is not for everybody, although everybody is welcome.
I found LxPup and it was even better. Now I'm using Dpup and for me it's quasi-perfection. It has flaws, yes, and perhaps its use may be not crystal clear for everybody, but it fits my liking perfectly (in part largely due to the kind help of the Puppy community).
And Quirky? It has my respect because Barry Kauler did it (the same person who did an staggering work devising Puppy) but to the present, it is, so to speak, "too much", even for me (maybe I adopt it eventually, but that will be years into the future).
All in all, I agree that a fair review of Quirky demanded a better understanding of Puppy and it would have been a better move to review a more mature derivative as LxPup instead. But the review really spotted the impressions anyone not knowing previously Puppy would have in the first contact with (an *EXPERIMENTAL* distro, that is, still with issues, like) Quirky. ---- @74 "DistroWatch reviews are an attempt to help us everyday users find a good distro and *not waste our time with trash*."
Wrong. If that were really the point, DW would also prevent posting ignorant opinions like yours.
76 • Quirky (by chalekorea on 2018-10-02 03:35:40 GMT from Philippines)
Like I said, "And, in my opinion(everyone as one), DistroWatch reviews are an attempt to help us everyday users find a good distro and not waste our time with trash." But at least I didn't resort to name calling.
77 • Quirky (by 01101001b on 2018-10-02 04:26:26 GMT from Argentina)
@76 "DistroWatch reviews are an attempt to [...] not waste our time with **trash**." But at least I didn't resort to *name calling*."
Yeah, sure.
In honor of the truth, I sort of liked your opinion, even though I was not fully agreeing with it, but you spoilt it badly in that very last sentence.
Regarding the review, I see LinuxInsider did one too of the same version (8.6) and yet, conclusions were quite different.
78 • Quirky (by chalekorea on 2018-10-02 04:42:26 GMT from Philippines)
@77 instead of 'trash' maybe I should have said 'problematic distributions' so that I won't hurt others feelings.
Linux for All!! Not just the few.
79 • Quirky (by 01101001b on 2018-10-02 04:53:29 GMT from Argentina)
@78 All right, all right, you won. You made me laugh xD
You beat me by one second. I was writing that maybe I didn't quite catch what you had in mind when writing those words, so, I apologize. My bad :-)
80 • multiboot, I'm over it (by greenpossum on 2018-10-02 05:46:06 GMT from Australia)
Used to play around with distros years ago but I'm over that, wastes time in installation and updating. You end up chasing releases like a news addict. Thanks to repos there's scarcely any open source software that you can't get to run on the distro of your choice, compiling it in the last resort.
Using the computer for work, correspondence, coding, development, etc is what I'm interested in these days.
The other reason is my computer runs 24/7 doing jobs at various times.
I do have VMs for Windows, FreeDOS for software that only runs there. And one AntiX VM to mirror the OS on my netbook.
81 • @35 • @ 27 OSX86 (by Alexandru on 2018-10-02 06:06:32 GMT from Romania)
Nothing special about OSX86. Just find a version compatible with computer and install. I have to recognize, it is the oldest OS installed on my PC: Mac OS X 10.6.2 (AMD CPU, 32bit mode); all others are up-to-date. Additionally, I have a BIOS / MBR setup and OSX86 lives on logical partition.
82 • puppy and multi-boot (by edcoolio on 2018-10-02 07:11:21 GMT from United States)
Puppy is a great emergency distro, Quirky is a great distro for the creator. My only gripe about Puppy, as has been noted here, is software installation. The pet system tends to be a too messy for my tastes. Try to install the latest Chromium 32 bit using the enclosed installer. Nothing but hassle and old software. This being said, I still love Puppy.
@69 and others, Multi-boot:
I guess I'm like some here in that I use multiple drives. Storage is dirt cheap. Booting physically separate drives gives me piece of mind. For example, I have a computer that I allow visitors to use. Elementary is my go-to on this box for visitors because it looks pretty (not a big fan otherwise). Once my overnight guests have left, I swap it back for Windows (gaming) or for Lubuntu as my daily driver.
Sitting on the computer is a USB key with Tails for banking, etc.
I just find it easier, faster, and the chances of a screw-up by either installation software or family much lower.
I tried VM, but there seems to always be a catch for my particular non-work use. Like Aunt Martha rebooting the computer because "it makes it faster...".
83 • @75, Re: Masterpieces and blunt stupidity (by Angel on 2018-10-02 07:23:50 GMT from Philippines)
Masterpieces of what? Obfuscation? Arch (As well; as others) is not for lazy beginners, but it does offer proper documentation, and the applications tend to work, should you follow. It also doesn't claim to be a quick install and run. What's "experimental" about Quirky?" An experiment in misdirection?
And talking about blunt, stupid conclusions, how about your take on Ubuntu. I am running KDE-Neon (Ubuntu derivative) and enjoying it. It's anything but ruined, and Canonical seems to be doing fine without your approval. I know. I've become weepy and lazy in my old age, so I no longer play with such things as Gentoo, LFS, et al.
84 • @32 (multiboot to use MS Publisher) (by Luca on 2018-10-02 08:29:26 GMT from Italy)
Thanks, it would be nice to use Libreoffice Draw, but does it provide the functionality I expect from a DTP software? I'm thinking of:
- booklet management (I prepare a lot of A5 booklets, obtained by folding A4 pages) - master pages (left and right) - chaining text areas, so that overflowing text goes in the next area - syllabation
Also, I find that an area of improvement for Linux desktop is clipboard management, especially for vector drawings. In Windows it is very easy to cut and copy vector images between applications, thanks to the Windows Metafile de-facto standard. In Linux unfortunately even copying from Inkscape to LibreOffice is tricky. I think that Linux applications should support SVG data exchange using the clipboard.
85 • Not sure how to answer, (by BeGo on 2018-10-02 08:51:00 GMT from Indonesia)
I boot exclusively Bodhi Linux, but,
I keep several VMs, including Windows, for my works. :)
86 • @84 - Linux DTP (by Uncle Slacky on 2018-10-02 09:08:24 GMT from France)
Why not use Scribus, which is a "true" DTP application for Linux?
https://www.scribus.net/
87 • @86 (by Luca on 2018-10-02 09:10:48 GMT from Italy)
Yes, I've tried it several times, but simply I didn't feel it user-friendly enough...
88 • @87 DTP (by frisbee on 2018-10-02 10:16:02 GMT from Switzerland)
There are some other solutions too:
http://laidout.org/index.html http://www.pagestream.org/
Online: http://www.fatpaint.com/ https://www.canva.com/ https://www.lucidpress.com/
Maybe worth a look.
89 • @88 DTP (by Luca on 2018-10-02 10:26:50 GMT from Italy)
Thanks frisbee, I will test the desktop solutions you proposed. (I don't trust web-based solutions, they may disappear in any moment).
Another solid project I am following is sK1. It is a vector drawing program, so in the same category of Inkscape, but oriented to print publishing... so I hope that it will gain DTP features in the future (who knows...)
90 • @74 (by Bibik on 2018-10-02 10:44:59 GMT from United Kingdom)
"To all those that say the reviewer should be familiar with Puppy or one of it's distros before reviewing Quirky - Do Mint, LinuxLite or any of the other Ubuntu derivatives users need to know Ubuntu first?? NO NO NO."
Oh, it is YES, YES and YES.
Mint or Linux lite differs from Ubuntu by a wallpaper and some python scripts/apps. The base is the same.
Puppy Linux and Quirky differs from all other "mainstream" Linux distros, so one should use them for a while to understand them, not like shoot-and-click distros such as Ubuntu, Fedora etc.
91 • Quirky (by chalekorea on 2018-10-02 11:27:36 GMT from Philippines)
@90 If I were a newbe to linux and installed a fresh copy of Linux Mint on my system, are you suggesting that I first need to go a research or learn Ubuntu? Do I need to learn Debian before Ubuntu? Or if, god forbide, I were to buy a new computer with Windows 10 installed I should go learn XP and/or Windows 7 first?
I think not.
Yet, the common thread for Quirky supporters is that you don't understand Quirky because you don't know Puppy. Even a review that @77 referenced the reviewer states, "I am a long-time Puppy Linux fan. I've relied on it for years as a pocket Linux tool." And later, "That familiarity makes working with Quirky a comfy experience."
I'm not saying Puppy distributions are bad. As I stated, I use Puppy on a netbook and it works great. But if we as linux community wish to make new believers from the Windows population then we need offer distros that are easy to use out of the box because like it or not that is the power of Windows.
So Quirky is for the few who wish to play with an experimental distribution. Not for us everyday users!!
Linux for All!! Not just the few.
92 • @91 back again to the same old story (by Bibik on 2018-10-02 12:00:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
"But if we as linux community wish to make new believers from the Windows population then we need offer distros that are easy to use out of the box because like it or not that is the power of Windows."
The same old story again and again, when a simple thing is there to discuss. Windows!
Btw, to review something, you have to do a thorough background check. Otherwise, you are just misleading the crowd.
93 • @91 chalekorea: (by dragonmouth on 2018-10-02 12:15:56 GMT from United States)
"Or if, god forbide, I were to buy a new computer with Windows 10 installed I should go learn XP and/or Windows 7 first?" To really appreciate and like Windows, one must go through the entire Windows series, starting with Win 3.1. :-)
94 • windows (by chalekorea on 2018-10-02 12:22:49 GMT from Philippines)
@93 you forgot microsoft dos. Been there, done that. And even before when when it was ibm dos.
95 • @ 91 one OS mentality (by Pierre on 2018-10-02 13:01:54 GMT from United Kingdom)
"Or if, god forbide, I were to buy a new computer with Windows 10 installed I should go learn XP and/or Windows 7 first?"
Not all Linux distros are alike, and not like Windows backward compatible. There's Alpine, Crux, Gentoo etc. If you install Sabayon doesn't mean you know how to install and USE Gentoo. But, Mint or Linux Lite are just clones of Ubuntu. Neither Ubuntu or Fedora or Mageia is anywhere near Alpine or Crux or Puppy or Quirky. You can go on using Manjaro, but you'd not know how Arch works.
Linux distros are different than Windows, or even OSX, for Linux distros are not compatible with each other, and rarely backward compatible even with the same older distro. The packages in Arch, for example, cannot be installed in Gentoo, or Debian, or OpenSuse. This simple truth has to be understood, before trying to review a Linux distro.
96 • learning linux distros (by Jordan on 2018-10-02 14:28:44 GMT from United States)
@90, 91, 95 More and more who first try linux are not of the mind to truly "learn" the distro or its parent distros much at all. They heard it's fast and secure and above all not Windows, so they follow a few instructions and go from there.
I don't think they want to go too deep, just have it set up and then work and/or play with it.
97 • Alternatives to dual boot... (by dionicio on 2018-10-02 14:49:14 GMT from Mexico)
Unavoidable distros snooping around. Personal solution was to set a switch to give NOR energy to Windows And Linux, for the rest live exemplars are enough. Not even wanting to mess with virtualizers, at these times.
98 • Quirky and so on... (by Aleksy on 2018-10-02 15:05:47 GMT from United Kingdom)
I had just finished reading the Quirky "review" again, and couldn't stop laughing at the dilemma, the reviewer had put himself into.
Dictionary says; that quirky is an adjective, "having or characterized by peculiar or unexpected traits or aspects."
The synonyms being: eccentric, idiosyncratic, unconventional, unorthodox, unusual, off-centre, strange, bizarre, weird, peculiar, odd, freakish, outlandish, offbeat, out of the ordinary, Bohemian, alternative, zany.
Then, Barry Kauler also is saying in his blog, Quirky Linux is an experimental distribution, created by him after he retired from leading the Puppy Linux project. (A retired person's pet experimental distribution, which he is doing for himself, and for those, who want to experiment.) Quirky is similar to Puppy from the User Interface and applications point of view, but underneath has significant differences. Quirky is created with the woofQ build system, which forked from Woof2, the Puppy builder. Note, the current Puppy builder is Woof-CE. (One has to know these 3 builders to understand anything at all.)
Rijkhoff should've understood the dictionary word quirky, or what Barry himself had said. It is quirky, as it is experimental. Simple!
99 • Puppy Linux Installation Requires Custom Bootloader Entry (by Winchester on 2018-10-02 15:07:27 GMT from United States)
A "frugal" installation of Puppy Linux or one of its derivatives won't be correctly picked up by another Linux OS's os-prober. You need to add a "custom entry" to the GRUB in control of things like this :
menuentry "Puppy Linux Derivative" --class linux --class lxde --class slackware --class os --group group_/dev/sda7 { set root='(hd0,7)' search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root bg12n6e3-2b45-41d1-a407-98a3fb04a106 linux /vmlinuz root=UUID=bg12n6e3-2b45-41d1-a407-98a3fb04a106 video=1600x1200 xvideo=1600x1200 quiet initrd /initrd.gz }
Or,maybe a slightly more detailed custom entry may be required in some cases. Maybe the "frugal" installation was made into a sub-directory of the given partition. Puppy Linuxes can be installed into a sub-directory of the root partition of another GNU/Linux OS. In the following example,the sub-directory name will be LxPup. Here is a working GRUB bootloader custom entry example of that :
menuentry "Puppy Linux Derivative" --class linux --class lxde --class slackware --class os --group group_/dev/sda7 { set root='(hd0,7)' search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root bg12n6e3-2b45-41d1-a407-98a3fb04a106 linux /LxPup/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd pdev1=sda7 psubdir=/LxPup pupsfs=sda7:/LxPup/name_of_the_sfs_file.sfs initrd /LxPup/initrd.gz }
Just be careful with typographical / spacing errors.
I doubt that there is a problem with the installer. I have never had a problem with it .....although I have used it exclusively on BIOS machines. I just had to keep searching for the information on how to create the correct custom bootloader entry,so I figured that I would pass the info along.
100 • @Luca -- DTP (by frisbee on 2018-10-02 15:19:03 GMT from Switzerland)
Inkscape is a great application with 2 problems related to DTP.
The first one ist, it can work with color profiles but, it can't embed them in a PDF. The second one is, it can't handle multiple pages due to SVG restrictions.
So, if you can live without a colour management, you can still use Inkscape for DTP with little bit of improvising. You would have to make yourself 2 templates (left hand side and right hand side) and export them as a single PDF pages. Than, at the end, you simply put all the single pages together in some joiner/splitter like PDF Shuffler (PDF Mod, PDF Mix, PDF Sam ...).
If you mostly work with A5, than you even need only one template, since 2 x A5 pages have place on one (horizontal) A4 page.
In some repositories, you might still be able to find XARA. It's great for small documents in Windows but, the Linux version is realy very old and since at least a decade, deprecated.
Some older versions of Corel Draw were running very well under Wine. Not 100 % sure but, I think it was Corel Draw 11 (the last Mac / Windows version).
Was just an idea.
101 • Quirky Linux (by Barry Kauler on 2018-10-02 15:24:16 GMT from Australia)
Hi guys, I just read the review and comments. There are some reasonable assessments. My main interests are in the underlying technology, and some aspects of actually using Quirky are neglected.
For example, Pmusic. This is an app developed for Puppy Linux, and I have included it as-is. I haven't had time to test it thoroughly. This is the case for many of the applications.
Some assessments in the review are, I think, idiosyncratic. The reviewer's dislike of the menu structure, for example -- that is the same as Puppy Linux, and, well, I like it.
I don't understand the reviewer's problems with the Package Manager. Installing and uninstalling work. I have been using it for years without problems.
Anyway, I won't continue, debating point-by-point. There is a lot of reasonable criticism in the review, and I recognise that I do have a problem. I have migrated to a new experimental distribution, EasyOS, and I am stretched too thin to do proper justice to both Quirky and EasyOS. Therefore, Quirky is now deprecated, and there might not be any more releases before I close it down.
EasyOS is now my baby, and I must emphasise that this distro *really* is experimental. Though, I am attempting to give nice intro docs, something the reviewer criticized as lacking for Quirky. See: http://bkhome.org/easy
102 • What should an OS review do? Did the Quirky review accomplish that? (by TheTKS on 2018-10-02 16:06:50 GMT from United States)
Short version
Maybe reviews of OSs that aim to do (or are doing) something different from the mainstream, everyday desktop OSs could benefit from different approaches.
Long version
Robert, Jesse: first, I appreciate the reviews and the other work on DW that you do (for free, in your "spare" time, on a deadline.) Thanks to both of you! Please continue to look at both the most popular and the some of the most quirky (ha ha) OSs. For people who want sources that only or mostly cover the most popular OSs: there are already many out there. DW's mandate is broader.
For some context, I like and use Puppies, and I've looked at the websites of Quirky and EasyOS to get an idea what they're about, but never downloaded or used them.
About the Quirky review: the review covered a lot of ground and overall did so ok (for simple differences of opinion I had, I can't say it better than Barry Kauler did above), but it seemed to me Robert was unsure what kind of review he wanted to do, sometimes reviewing it for its usefulness as an everyday desktop OS and at other times for its stated purpose of "exploring new ideas for Puppy's underlying infrastructure."
The concluding section would have been stronger if it were separated into "Final Impressions" or "Discussion", and "Conclusions". "Much as I wanted to like Quirky, I found very little to like." Fair, but that would fit better under a category like "Impressions of Quirky as an Everyday Desktop OS" (yeah, that's long and cumbersome - I'm sure you can think of a better title.) "Other than that Quirky is a distro to avoid." By whom? That needs a qualifier like "... for someone looking for an everyday desktop OS". That is apparent if you read the whole review, but it should be right there, in the same sentence.
An OS that aims to do something very different from most but also tries to offer the look and function of a desktop OS is going to be hard to review. Here's a suggesion, if it's feasible: clearly separated parts to a review of one of these OSs: one part a review of how useful it could be as an everyday desktop OS (if that's its purpose), another on how well it accomplishes its explicitly stated unique purpose goal. A review of OSs like Quirky, NixOS, KolibriOS or Gobolinux, for example, could probably benefit from this approach.
Mint probably never needs that approach because it's aiming to be a mainstream desktop, and its unique features can be covered in a regular review.
An OS with a very specific aim (not an everyday desktop OS), if you review it, should be reviewed only on the basis of its specific aim (ex. pfSense or LibreElec.)
An OS in development but that aims to be a desktop OS someday (ex. MINIX or Haiku) would be best reviewed as you've done Haiku before - what's the project's status, how close are they to being a desktop OS...
If an OS doesn't clearly state it's purpose? Then it's fair to review it like it's trying to be mainstream.
TKS
103 • Puppy Linux (@101) (by Jason Hsu on 2018-10-02 16:23:35 GMT from United States)
Barry: Thanks for your great work on Puppy Linux, which was my favorite distro back in 2008-2009. I have since moved on to Debian derivatives, but I still regard Puppy Linux live CDs as great for rescue purposes (has a knack for getting data from dying drives) and for PCs well over 10 years old. In my opinion, every Windows user should keep a Puppy Linux CD handy for the inevitable day when Windows no longer boots up properly. When people on forums today ask about Linux distros for PCs from the pre-Vista era, Puppy Linux is one of my recommendations (along with antiX, SliTaz, and TinyCore).
104 • @101 (by Aleksy on 2018-10-02 17:03:05 GMT from United Kingdom)
Thanks, Barry for coming through and explaining what really is/was Quirky. And, thanks for the link to EasyOS. Experimental or not, I am going to try it, for I have fond memories of Puppy Linux.
I still have few Puppy distros, from you and from others. It was nice that other users were encouraged to create new Puppies, something the other "mainstream" ditros don't really encourage. For example, Mint becoming a competitor to Ubuntu, while using the same base. On the other hand, all Puppies added to the knowledge base.
Good luck!
105 • Multiboot (by Dave on 2018-10-02 17:31:30 GMT from United States)
I voted 3-5 because I have 3 installed distros: Ultimate Edition 5.1, Mint 19, and UE 5.8 (not working).
I did not include my many (7) boot from ISO choices. I have been doing these as experiments/tinkering. I may write an article on the challenges of ISO booting.
106 • It is actually a good thing this review happened (by Aleksy on 2018-10-02 19:16:39 GMT from United Kingdom)
It is actually a good thing this review happened. I was getting bored with Linux distros for sometime, and didn't know about EasyOS from Barry Kauler (#101). I was reading this, http://bkhome.org/easy/how-easy-works.html and this would also help the future reviewer of a Puppy Linux or EasyOS. I certainly enjoyed reading it!
EasyOS loads, more or less as a live system, the way the conventional live distro users would understand. The contents of that page might help the present reviewer to make a persistent distro from his live Fedora and carry it around. Maybe even make a "save" file for it.
107 • Puppy, @101 (by edcoolio on 2018-10-02 19:18:00 GMT from United States)
Firstly, I read your post with great interest and it is appreciated.
In my previous post, I tended to agree with Robert about one very important thing that seems to be a major issue with both Puppy and Quirky: The package manager.
Although I understand that you have had no issues with it, the truth of the matter is that it is the one major weakness of Puppy (and Quirky by extension). Assuming you can get it to work on a regular basis, the software available always seems very outdated. Refresh, reload, etc., makes no difference. Sometimes it works, but no icon is available and you need to create one. Sometimes it doesn't work, but creates an icon to nothing. Sometimes one needs to go hunting around for a package which is only available as a link in the forums. Sometimes the pet will work easily. Sometimes it is a nightmare to get it going, and sometimes it actually works smoothly. This includes TahrPup and XenialPup.
I really love the 32 bit version of Puppy on older computers, but the simple act of installing an updated version of Chromium always seems to turn into an extended project. Unfortunately, my computer without Chromium/Chrome will simply not be used.
In fact, I would actually select Puppy over Bodhi due to speed except for that one issue. Package management.
I bring this up not to complain... well OK, complain a little... but rather in the hope that EasyOS will have that issue solved. A perfectly functioning OS should have perfectly functioning base software from which to select that is quick and easy to install.
Regardless of my experiences, I really appreciate your time and work in all of this. There really is only one word to describe the creator of Puppy: Genius
108 • Good for everyone (by Aleksy on 2018-10-02 21:29:56 GMT from United Kingdom)
After reading the fist part (#107) read the 2nd part, http://bkhome.org/easy/how-easy-works-part-2.html
This is good for everyone, the geeks, the Linux lovers and the reviewers. And remember, in almost every respect that you can think of, EasyOS is different. This is the goodness of Linux!
109 • Multi-Boot (by v2 on 2018-10-02 21:34:34 GMT from United States)
Still kind of distro hoping, not by choice.. Had Kubuntu 14.04 for a long time but when 16.04 didn't work right I listened to the hype and took the plunge, moved to Manjaro as my main OS. That lasted a few months until a change of video cards which Manjaro did not handle at all well. Complete failure, couldn't even get to a text prompt. Back to a mostly Rock solid Debian base I ran.. I switched to Mint KDE. Which was discontinued a short while after my switch grrr. Went back to 14.04 Kubuntu until Kubuntu 18.04.1 was released. So far so good other than the taskbar sometimes quits updating apps that are open (weird). So now i am multi-booting Kubuntu 14.04, 18.04 and windows 7 (rarely). 18.04.x is really close to my next 'only' distro.
110 • Why Multiboot? (by SayWhatNow on 2018-10-02 22:40:46 GMT from United Kingdom)
Long ago I did multiboot windows/various linux flavours; I did have some issues removing Grub when I needed to move on or upgrade hardware - this may have been my incompetence as a user; now with Hds being so affordable I simply swap disks if I want to run a flavour of Linux. Windows is my daily driver, it does everything I need well and I'm tethered to the Visual basic language in Excel for a lot of my work. I've never investigated the basic language in LibreOffice so I may be doing that suite an injustice (but it isn't available in my corporate environment in any case) I see Linux as a backup in case MS decides to provide Win 10 as SAAS; whilst I love Mint 18 and have experimented with other well known distros, there is no killer reason for me to regularly boot or switch to Linux other than a dislike of corporate greed and control
111 • Multi booting a PC (by penguinx64 on 2018-10-03 03:13:46 GMT from Bahrain)
I used to multi boot Linux distros, but I could never get a multi boot with Ubuntu and Fedora to work. It seems to work ok with Ubuntu/Debian based distros. Multi booting runs into problems if you have to reinstall one of the OS's. Usually, you have to reinstall all of them. So now I use Virtualbox instead on a quad core laptop with 16gb of RAM. It's easier to delete the virtual machine and reinstall it, without affecting anything else. No problems with Fedora either. By the way, what's up with Ubuntu? It dropped to #5 in the Distrowatch Page Hit Rankings.
112 • Dual Boot Mx-Manjaro (by Smoke on 2018-10-03 03:53:13 GMT from Canada)
Question about dual/multi boot some_Linux vs Manjaro. I have already MX and Mint dual boot. How to install Manjaro on USB stick? - problem is gparted from installation for some reason can't see USB. I don't want fat partition on my ssd which is mandatory in Manjaro. Please help if anyone knows how to install Manjaro on USB.
113 • Multi-boot (by Howard Schabow on 2018-10-03 08:16:53 GMT from United States)
I have been dual booting, or multi booting for many years, since the late 1990's, using DOS/Windows and Linux. I never liked or trusted Windows sharing a hard drive with Linux, so I have always installed them on separate hard drives. Either using two or more hard drives in one computer, or using different computers for each operating system. I have preferred this method for the past 15+ years. Just gives me fewer problems.
Currently my old Dell laptop, a Latitude E6400 with an Intel Core 2 Duo T9550 running at 2.66 GHz, with 4 GB of RAM, has Slackware 14.2 (64 bit) installed by itself on the 250 GB hard drive.
For my main desktop system, I multi boot on my custom PC I built myself. Equipped with an Intel Xeon Processor X3450 (quad-core 2.66 GHz) on a SuperMicro brand motherboard with 32 GB of ECC RAM memory. I currently use 7 hard drives on that machine, using a mobile rack mount tray system. Each hard drive has it's own tray, I only use one hard drive at a time.
One hard drive has Windows 10, which mostly only gets used once a month on average, to update itself.
The remaining 6 hard drives, have one Linux distribution installed on each. I currently have installed:
Linux Lite 3.8 Devuan 2.0 MX 17.1 Linux Slackware 14.2 (with FreeDOS 1.2) Solus 3.0 Trisquel 8.0
Soon will be installing Slackware -current to replace the Trisquel.
This system, using mobile rack mount trays, has worked perfectly for me the past 15+ years. I have tried VM's (mostly VirtualBox), but I just don't like using VM's as much. It's only my personal preference, nothing technical on a quad-core machine with 32 GB of RAM.
114 • multi distro (by ro0t on 2018-10-03 09:25:30 GMT from Germany)
hi all I dont have multi-boot. never have it. Currently using linux mint 18. On Linux since 2005. First distro was Mandriva (rip). Don't have any reason to install win beside linux. wine can do what I need, and I dont need wine :D why anyone needs win? playing games ? is that all ? what can windows do and linux can't ? that allways bother me
;)
115 • Dual Booting (by Phillip Chandler on 2018-10-03 11:19:01 GMT from United Kingdom)
Two machines, laptop and desktop, both running Win 10 and Manjaro Plasma. One headless box running Ubuntu server (website backup and plex). All running just nicely.
116 • Multi-Boot / Well Known and Less Known (by Winchester on 2018-10-03 13:25:20 GMT from United States)
I have approximately a dozen installed to a 3 TB hard drive. They all work fine,except for Scientific Linux version not currently updating. That's regardless of how well known or not well known they are.
PCLinuxOS ( with a customized Trinity Desktop )
Alpine Linux ( XFCE )
SliTAZ ( OpenBox )
NetRunner Debian Version ( KDE Plasma 5 )
Void Linux ( XFCE )
Fedora 28 ( Cinnamon )
ROSA ( KDE 4 / Enlightenment )
Scientific Linux FermiLab ( Gnome 3 ) which is having problems to update
Solus OS ( Budgie )
OpenSUSE Tumbleweed ( LXQt )
Calculate Linux Desktop ( MATE / BlackBox / LXDE )
Shiba-Inu ( OpenBox )
LXPupSC ( LXDE )
RedCore Linux ( LXQt )
and Porteus on a USB stick plugged into the back of the tower.
Maybe too many. When the time eventually arrives for a new computer,I will probably stick to four or five distributions. It's good to have more than one in the event one fails which is rare if you pick good distributions (popular or less so).
The reason I do it is to be able to have a different look and feel available when I start my computer .... so that I don't get bored.
Really,the other main reason is to have a wider variety of software available.
I have the Netrunner Debian version for its wide variety of software such as "Wire Desktop Messenger" / "DropBox" ..... easy to set-up under Debian / "Etcher" USB .iso writer etc. .
When it comes time for browsing the web,I prefer something with more easily up-to-date web browsers ...... Solus OS , SliTAZ etc..
Nice that the Solus package manager installs up-to-date software,especially web browsers.
Void xbps is extremely fast and functional. It has never failed me. Also allows for compiling software from the source code.
When I need more security (for online shopping etc.) , then I use something like Alpine Linux Edge with its security hardened kernel.
Multimedia software : PClinuxOS usually.
Additionally,if a distribution dies off,it's really not a big deal. You just have the home partition or folder files and data backed-up. Delete the data on the partition and install some other distribution.
As far as post # 111 goes,and I feel like I posted this last year,Multi-Booting DOES NOT run into problems if you have to reinstall one of the OS's. You DO NOT have to reinstall all of them. That is the whole point of separate partitions.
If you are re-installing one GNU/Linux OS,just delete the data on that one partition. While making a new installation, DO NOT choose "Erase Entire Disk",choose advanced or custom set-up and point the installer just to the one desired empty partition. It helps greatly if you DO NOT re-format your SWAP partition so that it maintains the same UUID. A few such as Slackware family and maybe OpenSUSE automatically re-format the SWAP partition to a new UUID without asking. If you want to have those distributions ,installing them first makes life easier.
Maintain one GRUB bootloader in control of the computer and some custom bootloader entries are required in some cases for some distributions.
117 • dual boot (by Bill on 2018-10-03 13:37:52 GMT from United States)
I have Linux Mint and Windows 10 installed. Almost exclusively I use Mint. About the only time I use Windows is to update my Garmin. For some reason Garmin has decided to not support Linux, so at least once a year I have to go into Windows.
118 • Multiboot (by Quan on 2018-10-03 13:40:05 GMT from United States)
I used to multiboot on my PCs back in the days. At least 5 partitions with different Linux flavor. Back then, it didn't have much of a requirement of hardware.
Now I only dual-boot mostly.
Linux desktop was quite good back then. It's just got a whole lot better now. Much better. And it is still moving fast forward.
Love it!
119 • Shields Up (by RJA on 2018-10-03 15:52:14 GMT from United States)
If you get the dreaded "FAILED" message it doesn't necessarily mean an open port. GRC's Shields Up will yell "FAILED" just because of allowing ICMP, IIRC.
The only truly worrisome thing, would be a port that's mysteriously open, such as, *cough* -> the Technicolor DWA1230 router. I thought I saw port 22 open or the like! So Technicolor DWA1230 router users, could be more vulnerable to router malware!
120 • Multi-boot (by Arghalhuas on 2018-10-03 16:02:12 GMT from Spain)
On metal, I boot just one OS, for the rest I use VMs.
121 • Linux, Win10 and Garmin (by TheTKS on 2018-10-03 18:38:36 GMT from Canada)
@117 I don't even need Windows for my Garmins anymore, because Garmin doesn't support either of my units anymore.
A handheld hiking GPS I bought about 10 years ago lost support around 3-5 years ago, so I use it without loading geocaches or new maps onto it. It is otherwise still a great hiking GPS.
A car GPS that was supposed to have "lifetime" maps lost support only 3 years after I bought it. I know - it was naive of me not to understand that "lifetime maps" meant that the maps you've got when they cut off support are the only maps you're going to have for the rest of the lifetime of the GPS unit. Besides that, the traffic function has become less reliable.
I didn't buy used, or old inventory, or discontinued models. Both of these were regular sale items at a major chain store.
I can forgive Garmin for not supporting Linux (but I would still be grumpy about it), but not for abandoning my units not so long after I bought them. So goodbye, Garmin. I'm and looking for manufacturers that have a better record of supporting their units, and ideally with Linux support. Anyone have any recommendations?
Another question: does anyone know of a good source of software to connect your computer to orphaned Garmins, and get map updates or new maps for those units?
Thanks,
TKS
122 • multi boot survey (by Robert Solomon on 2018-10-03 19:18:25 GMT from United States)
Odd to have a multiboot survey with out asking about virtualization.
I used to multiboot windows and one or two Linuxes until about 2011. After that time I boot just Linux. Windows and anything else I am working on run as a KVM VM.
123 • Dual boot (by Keith Stoneman on 2018-10-04 02:24:45 GMT from United States)
I dual boot OpenBSD and Manjaro. OpenBSD is my main driver, but I keep a Linux distro available for a few things that are just simpler to do on Linux than OpenBSD. Earlier this year I tried to get every single one of the non-systemd distros to work, and I was really pretty happy with Artix -- until one of the updates broke booting. Manjaro has been pretty good. OpenBSD is gold, of course.
124 • no dual boot thanks! (by Gary W on 2018-10-04 03:36:57 GMT from Australia)
I don't like dual boot (actually I don't like booting at all).
My main computer has a secondary partition which usually has my previously-favoured distro, in case I should need to fall back or perform some recovery task (I can't remember the last time I needed this).
My second computer has another distro, and that other OS, for "resale value". I boot that about once a month, to apply updates as a favour to the purchaser (if any).
My subsequent computers have constantly varying configs, for testing and evaluation. They night or might not have alternate boots.
125 • dual boot (by Trihexagonal on 2018-10-04 04:29:35 GMT from United States)
I don't have a need or desire to dual boot or use a VM.
I have 8 laptops, currently 6 running FreeBSD and 2 OpenBSD. That covers it for me.
126 • garmin (by mes on 2018-10-04 07:04:31 GMT from Netherlands)
@121 My garmin 2720 (1976) died about 2 jears ago. I replaced the maps with openstreetmaps. Uploading the maps could be done with linux (I forgot how exactly) but is easier wit garmin's mapsoure in windows. Now I just use an old smartphone for navigating, Works ok.
127 • Garmin? Get Google Maps (by Bibik on 2018-10-04 09:47:52 GMT from France)
Who needs paid Gramin, when Google Maps are around?
128 • dual boot (by anticapitalista on 2018-10-04 10:43:53 GMT from Greece)
Both computers run antiX.
Desktop - antiX-sid is my main driver, but I have partitions running antiX-jessie, antiX-stretch and antiX-testing.
Laptop - daily driver is antiX-stretch 64 bit, but also running frugal instances of antiX-stretch 32 bit, antiX-jessie 32 and 64 bit, antiX-testing 32 and 64 bit and antiX-sid32 and 64 bit .
129 • dual boot (by Steamwinder on 2018-10-04 13:55:53 GMT from Canada)
All my machines use triple boot minimum. My main PC has Windows, Debian, Mint, Arch and PCLinux for 3 reasons; Linux gaming is a nightmare when using 2 monitors and an AMD video card, so the sole purpose of Windows is gaming. Second I program in assembly, and c++ as a hobby so I like having rolling and stable distros to test on. Third, one partition is used for distrohopping.
130 • Garmin & other GPSs @126 (by TheTKS on 2018-10-04 15:01:05 GMT from United States)
@126 Thanks, I will look into your suggestions. I'm especially interested in how to do it in Linux.
My car Garmin wasn't recognized by their own latest software, Garmin Express.
For my hiking GPS, the browser plugin to upload geocache info for that model isn't recognized by modern browsers (or something like that - it's been awhile since I tried.)
If I can't find a Linux way, maybe I'll go to a second-hand store for a $30, 12-year-old laptop, install Win XP and IE 8 on it, and use it only for that GPS until viruses make both unusable.
I just looked again at Garmin's website, and there's some new troubleshooting information since I was last on.
Garmin still only Win and Mac.
TKS
131 • @127 Why pay for a GPS unit? (by TheTKS on 2018-10-04 15:08:23 GMT from United States)
@127
Assuming you have a unit that the manufacturer still supports...
Car GPS - 1) Mobile data is not an option for some people 2) Screens: car GPS > phone. Tablet screens are big enough, but nobody in my family uses them (and other reasons car GPS > tablet.)
Hiking GPS - 1) Many more features for outdoors activities than I've ever found on a phone. 2) All of those features are usable in areas without a mobile signal.
Some drivers in my family only have phone & text. Here, a few months of one phone's mobile data would buy a good enough car GPS. Accessible and fast wifi is available enough that it's not worth paying for data. Going over your data limit is super pricey.
Prices of both phone plans and GPS units change, though, so some day, maybe phone > GPS for some of us.
You can preload maps on a phone or tablet, but I've yet to find an option as convenient as a GPS unit. Single update for a whole country or continent vs loading several tiles at several resolutions.
I would be happy to be corrected. Maybe my experience is out of date.
TKS
132 • @ 131 problem of living in the wrong part of the world (by Bibik on 2018-10-04 15:33:21 GMT from France)
It is a problem of living in the wrong part of the world. Here in Europe, the mobile providers are falling over each other to give you a cheaper service. In certain countries, unlimited "plan" costs about 8 USD/month. These days, they are offering 6 months free, if you sign for 2 years, which is the standard "plan". I can even walk in the forest with an Android phone with Google Maps. It'd point you to the nearest exit.
133 • @132 problem of being insular, or of responding flippantly => GPSs, Linux... (by TheTKS on 2018-10-04 19:09:22 GMT from United States)
@132 Bibik, maybe you're just trying have some fun with that seemingly out-of-touch statement, but I am trying to get something useful out of this thread.
I'll just answer you like this: since there are some parts of the world, where it seems you aren't, that either don't have mobile coverage or where mobile data is expensive, then some way of navigating that doesn't rely on mobile is helpful.
If I have to, I'll use mobileless and batteryless options like asking people for directions, paper maps, a compass, or the position of the sun or the north star, when and where applicable and available.
But it's handy to have a paid GPS unit, and not expensive if you can still update maps more than a couple of years after buying them.
And you might have a hard time believing this, but I've actually encountered *Europeans* while walking through spots in the world with no mobile signal :-)
As for living in the wrong part of the world: I like a lot about my part of the world (in Canada, despite my signature showing the US), but the monopoly-like mobile rates is not one of them. So my real problem is how to get rates like you guys have. Actually, like almost everywhere else in the world has.
So... back to recommendations on GPSs with longer support from their manufacturers, and ways to load new and updated maps from Linux, or ways to use a phone for navigation as conveniently as a GPS where there's no mobile.
Bibik? Anybody?
TKS
134 • GPS, android phone, Google maps etc (by Bibik on 2018-10-04 19:39:44 GMT from France)
I've lived in Canada, so I know of the high mobile/internet provider rates there. And considering the mobile data plans, it is still the wrong part of the world. Personally, I like Canada, and considering personal rights, freedom etc, Canada is the right part of the world. I had crossed the border down once, but wasn't feeling safe until I crossed back. (Distrowatch gives wrong signatures -- I too am not from France.)
135 • @134 GPS, mobile rates, and the wrong part of the world (by TheTKS on 2018-10-04 20:15:45 GMT from United States)
@134 "Canada is the right part of the world. I had crossed the border down once, but wasn't feeling safe until I crossed back."
Then, Bibik, you were in the wrong part of the US. I've been to some of those, too, but I've also been to some of the "right" parts of the US.
Many of my favourite don't have a mobile signal, and I've found my hiking GPS helpful to navigate around them :-)
TKS
136 • @135 the right parts... (by Ikkam on 2018-10-05 07:59:21 GMT from United Kingdom)
" Then, Bibik, you were in the wrong part of the US. I've been to some of those, too, but I've also been to some of the "right" parts of the US."
Probably the "right parts" are where you hike, meaning uninhabited areas of that country!
137 • garmin (by mes on 2018-10-05 15:00:29 GMT from Netherlands)
it is possible to upload free OSM maps and gpx-files to the garmin device. But in Linux that is not easy. I tried it several years ago. No great success but it did work.
For fully offline (no mobile data) navigation on the android smartphone there are many apps available. I name just a few: Here weGo (works good), Mapfactor (my choice for motorcycle trips with many waypoints), OsmAnd (good but complex) , Karta (relative new aap,nice but many adds). These all work with OpenStreet Maps and are free (with adds).
138 • dual boot (by RockyBrocky on 2018-10-05 23:07:52 GMT from France)
Dual booting 3-5 OSs here - Windows and several install only Linuxen. Live ones are burned to DVD for convenient distrohoppyness.
139 • Booting multiple OSes (by Steve on 2018-10-06 06:30:21 GMT from France)
I actually boot one Linux distro (Manjaro) on the hard drive, and two (one Debian based and one Arch based) on USB sticks (for rescue)
140 • The type of Linux distro users today... (by Ikkam on 2018-10-06 09:12:30 GMT from United Kingdom)
The first 3 distros in e Distrowatch hit rankings tell us, who the "new" Linux users are, the click-and-shoot type. Those, who want/need simple ready off the box distros, rather than I-like-to-look-in type users.
141 • Ranking (by Werner on 2018-10-07 21:02:10 GMT from Canada)
for me the # on the List makes no difference, what I want is a System that is stable and does the Job for me , checked out many but will stay with Debian, I know it works for me without lockups and crashes! may not be the newest but just works, what more can you want ?
Number of Comments: 141
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• Issue 1102 (2024-12-23): Best distros of 2024, changing a process name, Fedora to expand Btrfs support and releases Asahi Remix 41, openSUSE patches out security sandbox and donations from Bottles while ending support for Leap 15.5 |
• Issue 1101 (2024-12-16): GhostBSD 24.10.1, sending attachments from the command line, openSUSE shows off GPU assignment tool, UBports publishes security update, Murena launches its first tablet, Xfce 4.20 released |
• Issue 1100 (2024-12-09): Oreon 9.3, differences in speed, IPFire's new appliance, Fedora Asahi Remix gets new video drivers, openSUSE Leap Micro updated, Redox OS running Redox OS |
• Issue 1099 (2024-12-02): AnduinOS 1.0.1, measuring RAM usage, SUSE continues rebranding efforts, UBports prepares for next major version, Murena offering non-NFC phone |
• Issue 1098 (2024-11-25): Linux Lite 7.2, backing up specific folders, Murena and Fairphone partner in fair trade deal, Arch installer gets new text interface, Ubuntu security tool patched |
• Issue 1097 (2024-11-18): Chimera Linux vs Chimera OS, choosing between AlmaLinux and Debian, Fedora elevates KDE spin to an edition, Fedora previews new installer, KDE testing its own distro, Qubes-style isolation coming to FreeBSD |
• Issue 1096 (2024-11-11): Bazzite 40, Playtron OS Alpha 1, Tucana Linux 3.1, detecting Screen sessions, Redox imports COSMIC software centre, FreeBSD booting on the PinePhone Pro, LXQt supports Wayland window managers |
• Issue 1095 (2024-11-04): Fedora 41 Kinoite, transferring applications between computers, openSUSE Tumbleweed receives multiple upgrades, Ubuntu testing compiler optimizations, Mint partners with Framework |
• Issue 1094 (2024-10-28): DebLight OS 1, backing up crontab, AlmaLinux introduces Litten branch, openSUSE unveils refreshed look, Ubuntu turns 20 |
• Issue 1093 (2024-10-21): Kubuntu 24.10, atomic vs immutable distributions, Debian upgrading Perl packages, UBports adding VoLTE support, Android to gain native GNU/Linux application support |
• Issue 1092 (2024-10-14): FunOS 24.04.1, a home directory inside a file, work starts of openSUSE Leap 16.0, improvements in Haiku, KDE neon upgrades its base |
• Issue 1091 (2024-10-07): Redox OS 0.9.0, Unified package management vs universal package formats, Redox begins RISC-V port, Mint polishes interface, Qubes certifies new laptop |
• Issue 1090 (2024-09-30): Rhino Linux 2024.2, commercial distros with alternative desktops, Valve seeks to improve Wayland performance, HardenedBSD parterns with Protectli, Tails merges with Tor Project, Quantum Leap partners with the FreeBSD Foundation |
• Issue 1089 (2024-09-23): Expirion 6.0, openKylin 2.0, managing configuration files, the future of Linux development, fixing bugs in Haiku, Slackware packages dracut |
• Issue 1088 (2024-09-16): PorteuX 1.6, migrating from Windows 10 to which Linux distro, making NetBSD immutable, AlmaLinux offers hardware certification, Mint updates old APT tools |
• Issue 1087 (2024-09-09): COSMIC desktop, running cron jobs at variable times, UBports highlights new apps, HardenedBSD offers work around for FreeBSD change, Debian considers how to cull old packages, systemd ported to musl |
• Issue 1086 (2024-09-02): Vanilla OS 2, command line tips for simple tasks, FreeBSD receives investment from STF, openSUSE Tumbleweed update can break network connections, Debian refreshes media |
• Issue 1085 (2024-08-26): Nobara 40, OpenMandriva 24.07 "ROME", distros which include source code, FreeBSD publishes quarterly report, Microsoft updates breaks Linux in dual-boot environments |
• Issue 1084 (2024-08-19): Liya 2.0, dual boot with encryption, Haiku introduces performance improvements, Gentoo dropping IA-64, Redcore merges major upgrade |
• Issue 1083 (2024-08-12): TrueNAS 24.04.2 "SCALE", Linux distros for smartphones, Redox OS introduces web server, PipeWire exposes battery drain on Linux, Canonical updates kernel version policy |
• Issue 1082 (2024-08-05): Linux Mint 22, taking snapshots of UFS on FreeBSD, openSUSE updates Tumbleweed and Aeon, Debian creates Tiny QA Tasks, Manjaro testing immutable images |
• Issue 1081 (2024-07-29): SysLinuxOS 12.4, OpenBSD gain hardware acceleration, Slackware changes kernel naming, Mint publishes upgrade instructions |
• Issue 1080 (2024-07-22): Running GNU/Linux on Android with Andronix, protecting network services, Solus dropping AppArmor and Snap, openSUSE Aeon Desktop gaining full disk encryption, SUSE asks openSUSE to change its branding |
• Issue 1079 (2024-07-15): Ubuntu Core 24, hiding files on Linux, Fedora dropping X11 packages on Workstation, Red Hat phasing out GRUB, new OpenSSH vulnerability, FreeBSD speeds up release cycle, UBports testing new first-run wizard |
• Issue 1078 (2024-07-08): Changing init software, server machines running desktop environments, OpenSSH vulnerability patched, Peppermint launches new edition, HardenedBSD updates ports |
• Issue 1077 (2024-07-01): The Unity and Lomiri interfaces, different distros for different tasks, Ubuntu plans to run Wayland on NVIDIA cards, openSUSE updates Leap Micro, Debian releases refreshed media, UBports gaining contact synchronisation, FreeDOS celebrates its 30th anniversary |
• Issue 1076 (2024-06-24): openSUSE 15.6, what makes Linux unique, SUSE Liberty Linux to support CentOS Linux 7, SLE receives 19 years of support, openSUSE testing Leap Micro edition |
• Issue 1075 (2024-06-17): Redox OS, X11 and Wayland on the BSDs, AlmaLinux releases Pi build, Canonical announces RISC-V laptop with Ubuntu, key changes in systemd |
• Issue 1074 (2024-06-10): Endless OS 6.0.0, distros with init diversity, Mint to filter unverified Flatpaks, Debian adds systemd-boot options, Redox adopts COSMIC desktop, OpenSSH gains new security features |
• Issue 1073 (2024-06-03): LXQt 2.0.0, an overview of Linux desktop environments, Canonical partners with Milk-V, openSUSE introduces new features in Aeon Desktop, Fedora mirrors see rise in traffic, Wayland adds OpenBSD support |
• Issue 1072 (2024-05-27): Manjaro 24.0, comparing init software, OpenBSD ports Plasma 6, Arch community debates mirror requirements, ThinOS to upgrade its FreeBSD core |
• Issue 1071 (2024-05-20): Archcraft 2024.04.06, common command line mistakes, ReactOS imports WINE improvements, Haiku makes adjusting themes easier, NetBSD takes a stand against code generated by chatbots |
• Issue 1070 (2024-05-13): Damn Small Linux 2024, hiding kernel messages during boot, Red Hat offers AI edition, new web browser for UBports, Fedora Asahi Remix 40 released, Qubes extends support for version 4.1 |
• Issue 1069 (2024-05-06): Ubuntu 24.04, installing packages in alternative locations, systemd creates sudo alternative, Mint encourages XApps collaboration, FreeBSD publishes quarterly update |
• Issue 1068 (2024-04-29): Fedora 40, transforming one distro into another, Debian elects new Project Leader, Red Hat extends support cycle, Emmabuntus adds accessibility features, Canonical's new security features |
• Issue 1067 (2024-04-22): LocalSend for transferring files, detecting supported CPU architecure levels, new visual design for APT, Fedora and openSUSE working on reproducible builds, LXQt released, AlmaLinux re-adds hardware support |
• Issue 1066 (2024-04-15): Fun projects to do with the Raspberry Pi and PinePhone, installing new software on fixed-release distributions, improving GNOME Terminal performance, Mint testing new repository mirrors, Gentoo becomes a Software In the Public Interest project |
• Issue 1065 (2024-04-08): Dr.Parted Live 24.03, answering questions about the xz exploit, Linux Mint to ship HWE kernel, AlmaLinux patches flaw ahead of upstream Red Hat, Calculate changes release model |
• Issue 1064 (2024-04-01): NixOS 23.11, the status of Hurd, liblzma compromised upstream, FreeBSD Foundation focuses on improving wireless networking, Ubuntu Pro offers 12 years of support |
• Issue 1063 (2024-03-25): Redcore Linux 2401, how slowly can a rolling release update, Debian starts new Project Leader election, Red Hat creating new NVIDIA driver, Snap store hit with more malware |
• Issue 1062 (2024-03-18): KDE neon 20240304, changing file permissions, Canonical turns 20, Pop!_OS creates new software centre, openSUSE packages Plasma 6 |
• Issue 1061 (2024-03-11): Using a PinePhone as a workstation, restarting background services on a schedule, NixBSD ports Nix to FreeBSD, Fedora packaging COSMIC, postmarketOS to adopt systemd, Linux Mint replacing HexChat |
• Issue 1060 (2024-03-04): AV Linux MX-23.1, bootstrapping a network connection, key OpenBSD features, Qubes certifies new hardware, LXQt and Plasma migrate to Qt 6 |
• Issue 1059 (2024-02-26): Warp Terminal, navigating manual pages, malware found in the Snap store, Red Hat considering CPU requirement update, UBports organizes ongoing work |
• Issue 1058 (2024-02-19): Drauger OS 7.6, how much disk space to allocate, System76 prepares to launch COSMIC desktop, UBports changes its version scheme, TrueNAS to offer faster deduplication |
• Issue 1057 (2024-02-12): Adelie Linux 1.0 Beta, rolling release vs fixed for a smoother experience, Debian working on 2038 bug, elementary OS to split applications from base system updates, Fedora announces Atomic Desktops |
• Issue 1056 (2024-02-05): wattOS R13, the various write speeds of ISO writing tools, DSL returns, Mint faces Wayland challenges, HardenedBSD blocks foreign USB devices, Gentoo publishes new repository, Linux distros patch glibc flaw |
• Issue 1055 (2024-01-29): CNIX OS 231204, distributions patching packages the most, Gentoo team presents ongoing work, UBports introduces connectivity and battery improvements, interview with Haiku developer |
• Full list of all issues |
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Random Distribution | 
Freeduc-Sup
Freeduc-Sup was a French distribution based on Morphix. It was specially designed for use in schools and educational institutions. It also includes a book in French derived from an Linux administration training course.
Status: Discontinued
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Star Labs |

Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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