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1 • web apps (by ddk on 2018-07-23 00:38:19 GMT from United States) |
WebApps pretty much worthless considering any web page can be tabbed. The idea is to mimic mobile apps, on a desktop feels out of place and really needs ad blocking (like almost everything else online) to be of any productive use.
2 • re: Types of security provided by different projects (by jsh on 2018-07-23 00:52:00 GMT from United States)
OpenBSD has additional security features that Mr. Smith did not put the effort into learning about.
Among these are periodic sanitizing of 1/2 the RAM, PLEDGE where an application cannot stray out of pledged resources and memory mapping.
3 • Web Apps (by John on 2018-07-23 00:55:34 GMT from United States)
An accountant friend of mine explained that she could not do taxes without doing it on-line. This was followed by the usual BS about 'the web is secure', etc.
A banker also tried to tell me the same thing....
I doubt anyone reading this believes that the web can or will ever be secure?
I am not sure why anyone [with a brain] would even ask the question?
John NH USA
4 • WebApps (by Pikolo on 2018-07-23 01:10:04 GMT from United Kingdom)
I honestly believe that the 56% of DW readers who answered "I don't use any webapps" must be using a different definition than mine. I find it so puzzling I suggest making the question "What is the difference between a website and a webapp" the next weeks poll.
My definition of a webapp would be something along the lines of "A website that I can use to create or edit information useful beyond that website".
1. Webmail is the obvious example - while I use an email client on my phone, on the desktop I tend to stick to a browser.
2. Online banking is another.
3. Social media is debatable, and I think it doesn't qualify as a webapp in the majority of cases. However, I'd say it does qualify when you organise a protest which then happens offline through it.
5 • WebApps (by DaveW on 2018-07-23 01:28:08 GMT from United States)
If sites like Gmail and IRS/Freefile, when accessed in a normal browser, count as webapps, then probably just about averybody with an internet connection uses multiple webapps. If, however, webapps are basically single-site browsers like those created by Ice, then my vote for not using webapps is correct.
6 • Nothing is 100% secure on the internet (by Brad on 2018-07-23 02:10:28 GMT from United States)
Everything that's out there, will stay out there for as long as the internet exists..
Nothing is 100% secure/safe/locked down.. you can just do your best to educate yourself on how to make yourself secure as possible..
The only 110% chance of being perfectly secure on the internet is unplugging your computer, turning it off, packing it up, and destroying it... lol
7 • Firejail (by Jon Wright on 2018-07-23 02:44:24 GMT from Vietnam)
Very interesting to read about Firejail. Sandboxing with a nice GUI - yeah! Running down the rabbit hole I also came across ParrotOS - includes Firejail, based on Debian, pretty bleeding edge (Linux 4.16, Mate 1.20), rapid release schedule. Moves to base off Devuan were afoot but they haven't got there yet.
8 • Peppermint (by hotdiggettydog on 2018-07-23 04:07:08 GMT from Asia/Pacific Region)
Web apps are a small part of Peppermint and I consider them a bonus for those who require them.
It does not take a lot of time to install your fave software . Personally, I would rather software be my choices. Pepper can be anything YOU want it to be.
The team behind this OS knows what they are doing. Their nemo, xfce, lxde combo is genius and delivers a solid, stable, and intuitive experience.
I love this OS.
9 • Web apps (by Brenton Horne on 2018-07-23 04:37:59 GMT from Australia)
The main web app I use, if it counts, is gmail. If Netflix also counts, I use that too, although frankly if it does I'd suspect YouTube would too. Recently, I've started using Authy (one for Google Chrome) to authenticate my logins to sites like Facebook and Twitter and the game, RuneScape. Most tasks not related to viewing/editing content on websites I do outside the browser.
Although web apps sound like the ideal way of making cross-platform applications. So long as the required browser is available, and it doesn't rely on anything outside browser, such applications should work.
10 • The real problem with web apps (by Style Nine on 2018-07-23 06:52:29 GMT from United States)
I find that web apps tend to consume and leak memory like there's no tomorrow. Compared to a traditional desktop app, memory handling is generally far worse in a web app.
11 • Webapps (by isndw on 2018-07-23 07:54:32 GMT from Austria)
Not every website has the ability to be a webapp. Websites that have webapp abilities have specific code for it. For example google use progressive web apps for that:
Google has already some of their services as progressive web apps, for example google maps:
Here the normal website:
And here the pwa version:
The pwa version can also be used as app for mobile phones.
Here is a directory progressive web apps:
12 • Webapps (by OstroL on 2018-07-23 07:59:49 GMT from Poland)
In this "webapps", you can't go back and forward, while in a tabbed web page you can do that. Webapps are practically useless these days. I have tested Pepeprmint. Btw, the creator of Peppermint has long gone from his creation.
In the question of online banking, the bank should give you a safe banking method, rather than you trying to make it safer. Some banks are pretty good at that, so you have to find one and change your bank to a safer one.
13 • Webapps (by isndw on 2018-07-23 08:04:45 GMT from Austria)
Here a very good example of a really good webapp is use to have access to my android phone:
14 • web apps (by Romane on 2018-07-23 08:12:43 GMT from Australia)
One - why would I trust something out on the web? Yeah, I know, lotsa people repeat the mantra: "the web is safe". Yeah, right! Plus, what happens to my data if the site itself goes out of business? Anyone says that won't or can't happen is living in some fairy-tale land. And hacking? Only a matter of time before a major major major breach occurs. Simply put - the web aint safe even for cruising, let alone data.
Two - why would I chew up my valuable bandwidth? Everything I need runs on my computer, and is available to me quickly and easily *without* costing me my bandwidth. I can back my data up to my own drives, and not rely on another somewhere "out there" to do the chore.
I have looked, yes. Not a single service that I have seen has the capacity nor the interface that I can get with my applications being local. Maybe one day, but I find the services available too restrictive in their interfaces.
15 • One – a few – most (by SuperOscar on 2018-07-23 09:29:48 GMT from Finland)
There should’ve been one more choice after “one” and “a few” webapps in use. I think I use two, if online banking is not taking into account: Google Docs/Sheets and Overleaf (a collaborative TeX writing app). Both are indispensable when you need to work together with someone on a document. Otherwise I consider web apps a waste of my time.
16 • Webapps (by aguador on 2018-07-23 11:15:29 GMT from Netherlands)
@5 makes a good point, and is precisely the reason I have skipped this survey. What is the definition of webapps? For me they would be so-called cloud-based applications like Adobe Acrobat or Zoho or similar office applications. To me the defining characteristic is that you are using a program on a machine other than your own to produce a personal document that has nothing to do with the service itself and may not be stored there. You use the apps to create a file whose data has nothing to do with the service provider. It is just providing a means to your end.
Should webmail count? Maybe, but even though the data may be stored on the provider's server, the data itself and its purposes have nothing to do with the service provider. Furthermore, is there a real difference in these days of IMAP between using the web interface or interacting via Evolution or Claws Mail?
Should on-line banking count? Probably not as the data involved are not just yours, but the bank's account of your money and activities. The data are shared and an integral part of the service, unlike the foregoing examples.
Given the vagary of what a webapp is, it would be good to repeat the survey providing the definition(s) of what is meant, and, perhaps, creating separate categories of webapps.
17 • Peppermint and Web Apps (by Chris on 2018-07-23 11:30:04 GMT from United States)
I'm a Peppermint user, have been for years. I'm not a web app user and, to be honest, I usually remove them and the Ice software to leave me with a pretty basic OS, ready for me to install whatever I want. I like this a lot, as I prefer an OS that's light on preinstalled software, so I get the software I want and not someone else's idea of what is ideal, software wise.
However, I recently found a use for web apps, or at least one SSB. I got tired of sites with auto play videos (not ads, just videos) so I disabled that function in Firefox. However, that made Pandora video not work, as I guess it only works with media auto play enabled. Obviously, I could have installed another browser for Pandora, but I didn't have to. Since I use Firefox, it saves the settings for each SSB independently. (Chrome and Chromium don't work this way) I was able to use the Ice program to create a SSB for Pandora with media auto play enabled by default, and still have it disabled in my main browser. You can't do that with tabs.
So, there's an example of a use for SSBs/web apps by a person who usually doesn't use or like them. That's the only one I have installed, by the way.
18 • Webapps (by isndw on 2018-07-23 12:29:37 GMT from Austria)
Here a comparition of the difference of a website and a webapp:
"A website is informational"
"A web application is interactive"
Here a other main point:
"Progressive Web Apps are user experiences that have the reach of the web, and are:
Reliable - Load instantly and never show the downasaur, even in uncertain network conditions.
Fast - Respond quickly to user interactions with silky smooth animations and no janky scrolling.
Engaging - Feel like a natural app on the device, with an immersive user experience."
So the client side of the webapp normaly is already installed on the computer and do not need to be loaded from the internet.
19 • Peppermint 9 OS (by R. Cain on 2018-07-23 12:32:31 GMT from United States)
From the Peppermint 9 OS review--
"...The default selection of software is pretty good, but I found the site-specific browser applications to be a little limiting. They worked well enough, but I found the choice of using web applications for all of the default games to be a little odd. If I am stuck off-line, I cannot even play a basic game of solitaire to pass the time, despite there being many different, non-web-based solitaire options to pick from. There are plenty of options available in Peppermint's software repositories, so it would have been nice to pick just one to include by default..."
I was starting to get interested; then I went back and re-read the review; two more times.
Certainly this does NOT mean that you cannot install stand-alone applications from Mint's or Ubuntu's repositories into Peppermint...or does it? Why is this presented as a negative, if the solution is so easy?...or is the solution not so easy?
20 • Web Apps vs Desktop Apps (by Kevin on 2018-07-23 13:32:29 GMT from United States)
I use web apps and/or desktop apps when there's no other choice. I prefer command line and/or ncurses based apps, aka Linux console apps. I use mutt for e-mail, vim for editing, etc.
21 • Theo? Is that you? (by CS on 2018-07-23 14:17:55 GMT from United States)
@2 "OpenBSD has additional security features that Mr. Smith did not put the effort into learning about."
Don't OpenBSD users (or is it user?) value the obscurity of that system as one of its key security benefits?
22 • WebApps and Security (by The OpenBSD User on 2018-07-23 17:18:31 GMT from United States)
Self-hosted Nextcloud is the only WebApp that I choose to use (other than those forced on me at work)
@21 "OpenBSD users (or is it user?)"
If it is indeed singular, then I am he. Anyone else making this claim is lying and probably uses some insecure spyware like a Microsoft, Google, or Apple product. They probably use email providers that harvest their data, too. Those hypocrites.
Sent from my iPhone
PS. Actually, in all seriousness, Distrowatch's comment function appears to be broken on Falkon (both Slackware and Gentoo), so I'm typing this in links. Anyone else experiencing this? Is it a qtwebengine issue?
23 • Peppermint OS (by Glenn Condrey on 2018-07-23 17:38:58 GMT from United States)
I myself use Peppermint. I have for years now.
I don't make a great use of the web app feature...but its nice to know it is there if I do in fact need it.
I was a Xandros refugee.....one of the very last users of Xandros 4.5
I kept it updated with more modern Debian applications without breaking the Xandros File Manager...no easy task in itself...let me tell you.
I found a linux distribution that I feel at home with for the first time in a long time.
My ONLY complaint...is that upgrading from Peppermint isn't as straight forward as upgrading from Ubuntu for instance.
Other than that..I want to thank the Peppermint team for all of their hard work on this distribution.
Its very polished...and easy enough for a intermediate user like me to use as an everyday OS.
24 • SUSE -> Gecko? ... s*****d ... DW comment function (by Somewhat Reticent on 2018-07-23 20:59:03 GMT from United States)
SUSE - gives me hope of more Gecko-Linux update releases.
(Any way to rank marketing's 'content' on number*fuzziness of buzzwords?)
Would s*****d have been so polarizing if it had been presented with humility and without the constant barrage of spaghetti-code full of expanding dependency-creep mandated by management anticipating world conquest?
@21 Looks like DW's comment works on Firefox ESR 52.9, but not version 26 ...
25 • Peppermint and Web Apps (by edcoolio on 2018-07-23 23:11:38 GMT from United States)
Let me start off by saying I really like Peppermint. They get extra credit from me just because they still have a solid 32 bit iso available. Unfortunately, I ran this on a 2.0ghz Pentium M with an SSD and 2GB ram and found that its parent, Lubuntu, is a hair faster. A hair faster on old equipment always wins in my universe. Anti-X and Bodhi also both winners in this race as Puppy seems limited.
After using it for a solid 4 months on the Pentium M and a 64bit version on an i5, I found myself bypassing all the "Web Apps" I had set-up. It is just flat out too slow compared to real applications.
I have come to the conclusion that I do not like Web Apps, if given a choice.
Essentially, I believe the local code and optimizations to be found in dedicated applications gives me an ease of use and speed that cannot be found in Web Apps.
A good piece of software will run everything locally at full speed, specifically designed for the task at hand. The only connection to the Internet is to update the raw data, everything else runs locally, leaving my bandwidth open for other purposes.
If given a choice, I do not like web apps. They tend to be much slower, clunky, and have formatting issues. Chrome is a browser trying to be all things to all people, but all people do not require all things... just some. So pick some things, write a good application for it, and I'll remain happy while saving bandwidth.
26 • OpenBSD (by Semiarticulate on 2018-07-24 00:23:27 GMT from United States)
While it is true that code correctness is a major focus for OpenBSD and that it goes a long way to improving security, I think it's important to mention that the project has also done a LOT of work in the way of mitigations; privilege separation, W^X, stack protector, ASLR and PIE to name a few.
27 • Web Apps and security... (by Bobbie Sellers on 2018-07-24 04:59:08 GMT from United States)
Web apps lets your information or your creation loose on the Internet...
As close to a Web app as I get is to go to the mail server and delete
the posts I have downloaded, using Firefox.
Your home computer is slightly more secure and you could separate
the content creation from the creating tool more easily. You could
even do a lot of good work with minimal internet contact and even
separate your creating device from your internet device.
The Internet is inherently insecure. That is because the creative
scientists and technologists who created it did not understand
the depths to which people can sink our of greed, jealousy and
envy not to mention the sexual aspects.
Which reminds me of a funny story about Bayer Pharms in Germany in
the 19th Century. They were trying to find uses for opium-derived drugs
and one of the products they developed was heroin. They thought it
would make a great cough medicine and they tried it out on themselves
and their families. They had no problems with addiction because they
focused on the cough suppressant action and led their families to
treat it in a detached scientific manner.
Well the rule is that the moral, hardworking scientists with their eyes
on the prize can seldom imagine the uses to which "normal" folks
will put the results of their efforts to benefit mankind and increase
28 • Calling back third parties. (by Foxy Foxx on 2018-07-25 23:36:18 GMT from Canada)
I use Linuxmint whith default browser Forefox 60.x.
When I start Firefox it just circling round-n-round and remained unavailable until it finishes calling back home to Daady Joe and Mom Akamai plus every single parties concerned. It still remained unclear how many parties will be called back using such web apps.
29 • Mint 19 - subject to 'twiddling' (by emarlow on 2018-07-26 02:25:36 GMT from United States)
Sometimes things that work just have to be fussed with; the Desktop for Mint 19 Cinnamon is now cursed with a Computer icon that is not user accessible. Can not move it, change nor renamed it.
Was this a much requested change...I doubt it -- just a bad idea.
30 • webapps (by buntublooms & sidgars on 2018-07-26 05:25:53 GMT from Australia)
WebOSs are also a useful concept and are supposed to provide security for use of their webapps. Although you don't hear much about them nowadays - they may have gone out of fashion.
But using webapps on their own - sounds risky security-wise.
31 • web apps and ham radio (by Roy on 2018-07-26 05:51:43 GMT from United States)
I generally just use the web browser but then I saw a YouTube video on Skywave Linux. It is Ubuntu based. But after watching the video off it web apps for Software Defined Radio for Global Online Listening I might change my mind.
32 • Peppermint (by mosomoso on 2018-07-26 07:31:05 GMT from United States)
Just a note of appreciation for Peppermint. I'm a slow non-techie who hasn't even bothered to find out about web apps. I've used Linux exclusively for years, mostly going with light desktops and Ubuntu derivatives like Lite, Mint, LXLE, Lubuntu etc though I've mucked around with Manjaro and the odd straight-from-Debian.
Peppermint is my fave, attractive, zippy and reliable. No problems with software because it's a matter of minutes to get the little I need. Vivaldi has won me over lately and that's not likely to come with any install. Dropbox is better if I just use the site rather than load stuff on with the app (or whatever I should call it). My VPN, Mullvad, works just fine.
We all do different things and work different ways, but I can recommend Peppermint from years of heavy personal use of several versions. It's just somehow...mmm...niftier.
33 • Silly FUD (by M.Z. on 2018-07-27 19:32:17 GMT from United States)
What kind of silly FUD is that? All you need to do in Mint is turn on tracking protection in Firefox & you have the most private browser there is, at least among the major options. The privacy/tracking defaults aren't any better or worse than any other major browser, but the privacy options in Firefox clearly are the best.
Also there are add-ons like Privacy Badger & uBlock Origin, just in case the best built in tracking protection available in a major browser isn't enough.
How about doing some homework before spreading misleading & malicious rumours? Everything I've ever seen says Firefox is the best option for privacy, unless you want to use something obscure & privacy focused like Tor browser, which is of course based on Firefox anyway.
34 • @ # 33 • Not A Silly FUD (by Foxy Foxx on 2018-07-28 12:30:38 GMT from Canada)
To avoid arguments back and forth I will reply ivery shortly.
I have a powerful watchdog to watch, monitor and register any programs micro behaviors.
35 • @ 29 • Mint 19 - subject to 'twiddling' (emarlow) (by frisbee on 2018-07-28 14:04:18 GMT from Switzerland)
"Sometimes things that work just have to be fussed with; the Desktop for Mint 19 Cinnamon is now cursed with a Computer icon that is not user accessible. Can not move it, change nor renamed it."
Computer icon on your Mint desktop?
You can easily add / remove it any time you desire.
36 • Credibility Issue (by M.Z. on 2018-07-29 05:15:04 GMT from United States)
And when a widely trusted source says something strange is happening by default and/or continuing to happen with tracking protection turned on, then I will take it seriously.
BTW, it is often worth checking out your add-ons, at least according to one of my most trusted sources:
37 • @ # 36 • Credibility ---> Credibiity? What is that? (by Foxxy Foxx on 2018-07-29 12:02:33 GMT from Canada)
Credibiity? What is that?
It is always better to face the reality and dance accordingly.
The "Boss" wanna plant a microphone in a mouth and GPS sensor in dutt of every living entity on this planet. Firefox is still just a fox as well that can not escape.
I appreciate your dependency, reliability and trust on add-ons so called Ultimate Privacy and toggled-switched security settings that simply toggle the switch from off-to-on just on the screen and do absolutely nothing.
Thanks for ArsTechnica informative link, I have read similar news on other website(s), according to recent research, The rate of infections in smart devices is very high in four-figures/minute.
We live in a world where "Seeing is believing-in". But negative of this remains unknown.
By the way I have settled on linuxmint and ubuntu latest versions for my surfing needs just to know them well as I am a newbie to couple of things like systemD. Just for hackers to be informed, I use without any security settings as well, you are well-come through OpenGate, as in OpenSource.
Number of Comments: 37
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|• Issue 790 (2018-11-19): NetBSD 8.0, Bash tips and short-cuts, Fedora's networking benchmarked with FreeBSD, Ubuntu 18.04 to get ten years of support|
|• Issue 789 (2018-11-12): Fedora 29 Workstation and Silverblue, Haiku recovering from server outage, Fedora turns 15, Debian publishes updated media|
|• Issue 788 (2018-11-05): Clu Linux Live 6.0, examining RAM consumpion, finding support for older CPUs, more Steam support for running Windows games on Linux, update from Solus team|
|• Full list of all issues|
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HandyLinux was a French distribution designed for novice Linux users. It was based on the latest stable version of Debian GNU/Linux and it uses the Xfce desktop environment. The main feature of the distribution was a custom start menu with applications and Internet bookmarks grouped in tabs. HandyLinux integrates the latest versions of the Chromium web browser, LibreOffice office suite, Skype conferencing and messaging client, VLC video player and other popular applications with the stable Debian base.