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1 • ZFS on Boot (by Will Senn on 2018-07-16 01:17:42 GMT from United States)
Uh-mazing how few people are doing boot on ZFS here. Far and away my favorite file system. I've been doing FreeBSD on ZFS for about 3 years. No issues, super easy backup/snapshot/restore/remirror/etc. If I could get the same setup on my Mint install, I wouldn't even pause for breath. While timeshift is cool, BTRFS isn't and boot on LFS isn't exactly painless either, otherwise, it might be a similar experience, but between EFI, Grub, and LFS getting a new system restored from timeshift on anything other than a default config is, mmm, ouch.
Fun stuff, thank for bringing it up on DistroWatch.
2 • @ "will probably deter Linux newcomers" (by OS2_user on 2018-07-16 01:47:07 GMT from United States)
That seems to be a key goal of many distros besides comments here. Hyperbola seems to be setting a new standard of deterrence.
Moving on... Today downloaded and installed the Mate version of PCLinux 2018.06. As always, it didn't present native resolution of my 1600x900 monitor -- which I keep because small, tack sharp, very low power, and I got it for $2 at the flea market, apparently nearly new (likely because too small). So, first, no, I'm not throwing it out to replace with one for the convenience of Linux distros rather than them doing it right: query the monitor for available resolutions, and offer the choice in a list. That monitor is a useful practical test, which nearly all distros fail. -- THIS time after hunting, found was able to "configure the X server" and get the resolution listed (believe was after selecting "other"), and then (after required reboot) have the system actually come up with the selected resolution. -- IF stays set, then the "Linux desktop" has now nearly caught up with Windows 2000 in one basic key function, though not nearly so convenient to set.
Anyhoo, that was actually after a repeat of the (Mate) desktop manager completely losing its main function of program start menu, just nothing would pop up except the useless right click choices. -- HOW can KDE and Mate versions fail exactly the same way? Is it ME? Bad attitude? But I never have such fundamental trouble with either Windows or OS/2! (By the way, those both have a watchdog in the desktop managers that re-generate the desktop.) -- HOWEVER, prior experience with PCLinux provided more hope, so I rebooted and continued. -- So far okay... Guess all for now.
3 • Hyperbola (by Ken on 2018-07-16 02:05:23 GMT from United States)
I was someone who gave Hyperbola a try, and I can explain why I thought it was the best choice for me (it wasn't, but I tried it).
My introduction to GNU/Linux was through Linux Mint. Later, being attracted to the Free Software philosophy, but liking the Ubunto-base I was using, I installed Trisquel and used it for a couple years. But Trisquel is extremely slow in upgrading. Trisquel 8, which is based on Ubuntu 16.04, just came out a few months ago--two YEARS after its base was released. Security updates were also slow in coming, so I decided to move to a different FSF-approved distro.
Though I was hesitant to try an Arch-based distro since I only had experience with Ubuntu-based ones, I learned how to manually install Parabola. I replaced Trisquel on both my desktop and my Libreboot laptop, and after a few mi-sstarts (what's learning Arch without a few mistakes along the way, right?) I got two fully functional Parabola installations going.
They ran well for a while, but eventually I hit the snag most Arch users hit -- updates broke my systems. I wasn't as good a troubleshooter back then, but I did manage to get things working again. I was happy with the way my systems worked--when they worked. When they didn't, it was a pain to get them working again. Since Parabola is bleeding edge, things are almost sure to go wrong eventually.
When I heard about Hyperbola, I thought this might be for me: Arch-based but much slower updates for better stability, completely Free Software, access to the AUR, non-systemd (can't hurt, right?). I tried it out, but found too many things missing I thought I would have, and the experience was buggy--some things just plain didn't work. I couldn't even get the OpenRC version at the time to install on my desktop.
After only a short time I switched my laptop back to Parabola, and haven't had any problems since. Wanting a little more stability on my desktop, just in case something breaks in Parabola and I need my other computer to sort it out, I currently have a custom Manjaro installation that is as Free as I can make it. Maybe I'll give Hyperbola a look again some day, but for now, it fails in providing the experience I'd hoped for.
4 • For comparison: system backup in OS/2. (by OS2_user on 2018-07-16 02:20:38 GMT from United States)
Requires only about 500M, and it's easiest if boot volume is a separate couple gigabytes, else you'd need to write a script listing just system and program directories. -- For last 5 years I've been using a 1G solid-state SATA that plugs into M/B. Religiously backup, but never needed.
So: 1) Make a bootable volume by using LVM on command line. 2) While the system is running normally XCOPY * (with switches) to it. -- In less than 5 minutes (xcopy is SLOW compared to normal copy) you're done, though hardware swaps are needed to actually use: will come up exactly same with whatever programs on the drive. Can easily restore any given files too.
5 • Tech & Texstar (by PC Doc on 2018-07-16 02:20:57 GMT from Australia)
The tech / hacker culture has brought us troubles like drive-bys, viruses, injections, exploits, back-doors, trojans, spying, etc. But one good thing is that it keeps us alert, on our toes, observing, checking, testing, and patching our PCs.
This is necessary in health too: being alert, observing, checking, and patching our bodies to early-detect problems like cancer. So a big thanks to the tech / hacker community - who inadvertently remind us of this necessary type of activity (and help us to live longer). Let's hope that Texstar gets a break with his checkups, and lives longer too.
6 • Hardware issues (by Jon Wright on 2018-07-16 03:49:43 GMT from Vietnam)
I'm a fan of low-resource distros and 50MB is notably low.
I'm sure it's possible to get a USB wifi dongle with Linux-friendly chipset for $5-10? If so any issues with non-supported drivers are simply moot? Constant dwelling on hardware issues in DW reviews becomes monotonous and oh-so predictable.
> "The distribution tries to be convenient for visually impaired users"
Linux Mint, please take note. This once-friendly distro is fast headed into hardcore-geek territory with its refusal to adhere to basic readability considerations. It's not as if I'm *that* old. (Typing this in grey-on-white, Mint19 XFCE.)
7 • File Systems and TAILS (by cykodrone on 2018-07-16 13:37:58 GMT from Canada)
I am old school, I will use tried and tested file systems, whatever is the default in my NON systemd installs.
If somebody doesn't make a systemd free TAILS soon, I just may just do it myself, I do not trust any RH written spyware to have root permissions to access my drives, especially encrypted drives. RH has many contracts with numerous gov agencies, you can call me a paranoid alarmist if you want, I'm OK with that.
8 • 50M (by John on 2018-07-16 13:47:01 GMT from United States)
Hi All,
Overbloat is here. I still use DSL. 50Meg and plenty overbloated.
John NH USA
9 • TAILS (by Jon Wright on 2018-07-16 13:48:35 GMT from Vietnam)
> "If somebody doesn't make a systemd free TAILS soon"
Heads, https://distrowatch.com/heads
10 • @9 Re Heads (by cykodrone on 2018-07-16 14:34:58 GMT from Canada)
Thank you, you made my day, nice to see there IS an alternative to TAILS. :)
11 • @6 about wifi dongle (by SA on 2018-07-16 17:03:39 GMT from France)
Hello, I found that wifi dongles sold as "compatible with Raspberry Pi" work well (for what I've seen) with Linux (not only with ARM scomputers)
I couldn't find other that worked and easy to buy, in my country.
12 • Freedom in Software & Distro Visions (by M.Z. on 2018-07-16 17:29:07 GMT from United States)
@2
'...setting a new standard of deterrence.'
It's a young distro without a desktop. That sort of complex OS has existed from the time that OSs were first created.
Why not accept the fact that people have different visions for the versions of Linux they create?
Newcomers to Linux who want an easy desktop are always welcome to try Linux Mint, PCLinuxOS, etc. & those that want to dig deep into the innards of an OS can try working the Linux From Scratch DIY manual. These projects all exist in a vast community of Linux & BSD flavors, and they are all free to target any users they want. If an adequate user base for the distro exists, then the distro will continue.
All the masses of users hungering for an operating system that makes them feel free deserve a distro that meets their needs, expectations & vision for the type of computing they want to do. That includes easy desktop distros, home firewall & NAS OSs, & complex systems for learning how an OS works. Why not encourage them to be free to follow their individual vision of freedom & happiness in computing?
13 • « audited » (by Donald Trump on 2018-07-16 20:06:51 GMT from France)
From the AUR malware part :
> These third-party items should be audited before being installed
I am not very advanced, someone can explain to me how « audited » ?
Thank you by advance.
14 • @2; @12 ... "will probably deter Linux newcomers" (by R. Cain on 2018-07-16 22:26:46 GMT from United States)
*How to Upgrade to Linux Mint 19* blog, 4 July, of Mint Linux with its almost six hundred complaints about Mint19 also "...will probably deter Linux newcomers". Some are about multiple, serious system-administrator-level problems; and most are obviously from previous users. Mint used to be the acknowledged "ease-of-installation" champion for the new Linux user, the "I'd give this to my grandmother" distro.
@12--"...Why not accept the fact that people have different visions for the versions of Linux they create...?"
The problem is that the vision changes, right in mid-stream, where you'd NEVER expect it to. Mint's creator used to be proud of his statement that he would not ship a version "...until it is ready..." (his words).
Times have_drastically_changed...
15 • @ « audited » (by Donald Trump on 2018-07-16 20:06:51 GMT from France) (by someguy on 2018-07-16 23:40:48 GMT from Australia)
Users need to inspect the PKGBUILD file to understand what it it will do to your system.
The issue is that a lot of people use AUR helpers that make skipping this step trivial, hence they easily get malware.
16 • "Will probably deter Linux newcomers"..... (by Az4x4 on 2018-07-17 01:46:42 GMT from United States)
@14... "will probably deter Linux newcomers" (by R. Cain on 2018-07-16 22:26:46 GMT from United States)
------------------------------------
"*.....Mint Linux with its almost six hundred complaints about Mint19 also '...will probably deter Linux newcomers'. Some are about multiple, serious system-administrator-level problems; and most are obviously from previous users. Mint used to be the acknowledged 'ease-of-installation' champion for the new Linux user, the "I'd give this to my grandmother" distro."
------------------------------------
That's one of the hazards]developing based on someone else's upstream work -- which after all is what distro developers do.
I'm one of the long time Mint users who pointed out the obvious, that this first release of Mint 19 falls short in certain areas, the most troubling in my case being that Wine 3.x won't display a working 'Wine' menu when it's installed, making using it more cumbersome and indirect than it should be. But this isn't a problem originating with Linux Mint, it's a problem originating with WineHQ that effects Ubuntu 18.04 and distros based on Ubuntu, including of course Linux Mint 19.
As far as overall ease of installation and use, Mint 19 is entirely up to par in most instances and does most things as flawlessly as ever. Once upstream issues like Wine not installing a working menu have been ironed out, the Mint 19.x series of releases will doubtless be as accomplished a desktop Linux OS as the Mint 18.x series has been -- far and away the best of the bunch with it comes to a Debian-Ubuntu based desktop operating system.
17 • @16 "Will probably deter Linux newcomers". (by pengxiun on 2018-07-17 03:09:33 GMT from New Zealand)
" That's one of the hazards]developing based on someone else's upstream work -- which after all is what distro developers do. "
ok.
Failed install while still connected to the net at grub install process.
"The 'grub-efi-amd64-signed package' failed to install into /target/."
"Fix" is to disconnect from the internet and re-run the install.
This is a current problem, that is carried over from previous releases.
Apparently, this is an "upstream" problem.
Then there are updates which bork the system. ie. virtual-box graphics driver, which, even if you are on real hardware without virtual-box installed, was installed as it is a dependency.
Again, response is to blame "upstream" and to advise the affected users to issue some terminal commands to revert the offending update
Pointing the finger of blame at "upstream" does not endear you to "upstream" and certainly gives the impression of a less than professional response, after all, you, The Mint Team, have declared "fit for purpose" by releasing your current Mint O/S and allowing any updates.
Mint mantra was "release when ready", obviously that has gone by the board, now it seems to be "Ubuntu released last month, lets get this thing outta here".
The reality is, these are Mint problems, as viewed by the user, not "upstream", and probably is part of the reason for Mints fall from #1 on Distrowatch DHR.
I note that Mint is now at best #2 for all meaningful periods.
Because of the above, I no longer recommend Mint or even Ubuntu derivatives.
18 • @9 Tails alternative (by aguador on 2018-07-17 05:50:27 GMT from Netherlands)
You made MY day: an TAILS alternative without GNOME!
19 • "will probably deter Linux newcomers" (by R. Cain on 2018-07-17 08:51:13 GMT from United States)
"...So yes, in many aspects, Tara works better than the competition. But the competition is awful...[with] Unnecessary, pointless [problems]. Even more so because we didn't have them in the past. These are regressions. Horrible, life- and will-sapping regressions..."
--dedoimedo, 'Linux Mint 19 Tara - Tara Cognita'
In the past, in the time before horrible life-sapping and will-sapping regressions, 'systemd' was not used. Now it is used by all of Tara and all of its competition.
20 • AUR and systemd (by Arghalhuas on 2018-07-17 12:58:59 GMT from Spain)
So, are Arch users expected to audit every package and its dependencies prior to installation...? Maybe also take a look to the sources?
The Arch issue illustrates the facts that systemd is not an init system and that it represents a security liability.
21 • Post # 2 : Monitors with Linux (by Winchester on 2018-07-17 14:41:51 GMT from United States)
Don't throw out the off-brand 1600x900 monitor from the flea market to "replace with one for the convenience of Linux distros".
I would recommend doing it simply for the sake of having a better monitor. One with a better resolution. Which would likely make your life easier regardless of any operating system that you choose.
Doesn't using a small monitor defeat half of the purpose of using a desktop computer in the first place???
Low power?? Maybe low but,if it is from a flea market and 1600x900 resolution,I am willing to bet that it uses a CCFL backlight ...... which are less energy efficient than the monitors out there now with various LED backlights ; OLED backlights etc. Available new for less than $ 90 at 1920x1080. Or available for less than that second hand. Some of them are also "sharp as a tack".
However,maybe you are right to say that Windows 2000 is easier to set-up for a 1600x900 low resolution monitor. If you want to use such an operating system for the convenience of a 1600x900 monitor,then don't let me stop you. It just doesn't seem rational,nor does it seem like a wise approach in my opinion.
22 • Hyberbola (by RJA on 2018-07-17 17:56:24 GMT from United States)
@2 ->" Hyperbola seems to be setting a new standard of deterrence." -> Sorry, I disagree, their release model reduces the chance of breakage and is a refuge from people who hate Windows 10.
While yes, their documentation is limited, strangely, seems to demand that I have a static IP, LOL.
23 • @20 AUR (by Ken on 2018-07-17 20:23:04 GMT from United States)
Yes. The AUR front page says in big bold letters: "DISCLAIMER: AUR packages are user produced content. Any use of the provided files is at your own risk." The wiki page for installing AUR packages says in a brightly colored text box: "Warning: Carefully check all files. Carefully check the PKGBUILD and any .install file for malicious commands. PKGBUILDs are bash scripts containing functions to be executed by makepkg: these functions can contain any valid commands or Bash syntax, so it is totally possible for a PKGBUILD to contain dangerous commands through malice or ignorance on the part of the author. Since makepkg uses fakeroot (and should never be run as root), there is some level of protection but you should never count on it. If in doubt, do not build the package and seek advice on the forums or mailing list."
Unlike a traditional distro repository that is locked, maintained by certain maintainers, and audited before packages are accepted, the AUR is an open repository where anyone in the community can upload PKGBUILDS for others to use. It is by its very nature more susceptible to malicious content. That's why Arch warns users that before building any package from the AUR they should either already trust the contributor or audit the code themselves.
24 • @23 (by someguy on 2018-07-18 00:53:34 GMT from Australia)
Exactly, this is also why Arch users get annoyed with Manjaro users. Manjaro comes with an AUR helper pre-installed and somewhat obfuscates the risks and the correct use of the AUR.
25 • "...will probably deter Linux newcomers" (by R. Cain on 2018-07-18 04:00:48 GMT from United States)
A *really* good read:
_OCS Magazine_, 10/19/2016--"Systemd – Progress Through Complexity”.
Some snippets for you---
“...The topic...today is to tell you a story of how I went about fixing a broken Fedora 24 system – powered by systemd of course, and why...[the end] was one of pain and defeat...”
“...This led me to a troubling realization that the documentation and general knowledge on Systemd are very rare. There just isn’t the abundance of tips and tricks like you could find on System V, which would help you almost immediately narrow down your problem and resolve it...The reason is quite simple though – Systemd is too complex for its own good and everyone forced to use it...”
”...my Fedora box remained unbootable, and I was forced to rebuild the installation. I do not recall a single case where I was unable to fix a Linux box when it was still powered by good ole [sysv]init. I had worked on some really bad issues, but I was always able to recover. With Systemd, I had to concede defeat. The notion of events and timeouts is just completely wrong...”
“...As far as Systemd is concerned, I *am* concerned, because it is a technology that does not correlate to knowledge or experience, and it poses a great risk to the prosperity of Linux...”
“...you might as well practice Linux installations, since they may be the answer to when Systemd goes bad, as I cannot foresee any easy, helpful way out of trouble. ..”
26 • @2 Monitor Issues (by Archdevil on 2018-07-18 06:04:16 GMT from Netherlands)
I have never had issues on my laptop, that uses a 1600x900 display. I believe the problem lies in the fact that your monitor has issues telling the OS which resolution it prefers. I had the same issues with a Belinea-monitor in the past. A colleague of mine wanted to use it running Windows 7, but we needed special drivers for it to be detected correctly. Same thing may be happening with your monitor.
27 • Slackware turns 25 (by linuxuser on 2018-07-18 07:12:17 GMT from Greece)
Happy 25th anniversary to the Slackware 1.00 release! Congratulations!
28 • @27 (by kc1di on 2018-07-18 12:31:47 GMT from United States)
++1 Happy 25th :)
29 • Hyperbola network troubleshooting docs (by curious on 2018-07-18 13:18:47 GMT from Germany)
In the review, Jesse notes that "In the document there is a link to show trouble-shooting steps for when networking does not operate as expected. The link doesn't work because it points to an on-line resource."
This reminds me of the old practical joke that is present in all BIOSes for when the keyboard is not connected:
"Keyboard error. Press F1 to continue."
Obviously, the way to trouble-shoot totally "libre" distros that must not have the drivers necessary for common wireless network hardware is to install a different distro that emphasises usability instead of FSF guidelines.
The alternative of blocking a USB port with unnecessary extra hardware is unappealing - one always needs at least one more USB port than is available ...
30 • @17 • @16 "Will probably deter Linux newcomers". (by pengxiun on 2018-07-17 (by Az4x4 on 2018-07-18 19:57:07 GMT from United States)
"That's one of the hazards of developing based on someone else's upstream work -- which after all is what distro developers do."
-------------------------------------------
ok.
Failed install while still connected to the net at grub install process.
"The 'grub-efi-amd64-signed package' failed to install into /target/."
"Fix" is to disconnect from the internet and re-run the install.
This is a current problem, that is carried over from previous releases.
Apparently, this is an "upstream" problem.
-------------------------------------------
.....Pointing the finger of blame at "upstream" does not endear you to "upstream" and certainly gives the impression of a less than professional response.....
The reality is, these are Mint problems, as viewed by the user, not 'upstream'
-------------------------------------------
Inexperienced users may indeed view any problem they run into with a given distro as somehow originating with that distro itself, demonstrating a deep misunderstanding of the process development teams go through in preparing their distro for general use.
Mint, for example, bases its work on Ubuntu's latest LTS release -- presently Ubuntu 18.04. Ubuntu in turn bases its development work on the latest Debian release. And both of these 'upstream' projects from which Mint draws incorporate not only in house developed bits, but bits from outside their control -- for example the Wine 3 issues that WineHQ has yet to address.
Do they work at mitigating regressions and bugs in putting their projects together? Of course they do. Are they successful 100% of the time? ..No way.
The good as well as the not so good flows downhill to projects like Linux Mint. And until they're 'fixed' upstream, downstream projects based on less than perfect upstream releases are affected just like their parent project is.
So, yeah, ..the easy thing to do, and many users do it, is to 'blame' downstream releases like Mint for upstream issues inherited from their parent projects.
Once Mint 19.2 and 19.3 are released we'll see the corrections necessary to move the Mint 19.x project forward in the near flawless manner multiple millions of users world wide have come to expect of Linux Mint.
In the meantime Linux Mint 18.3 remains the best of the best when it comes to a Debian/Ubuntu based desktop OS. And it'll be updated until 2021, giving those who wish to do so more than adequate time to make their move to Mint 19.x.
For those who wish to try something new, Manjaro Linux, based on Arch, is interesting to install and play with. There are some serious issues with it as well, but for the moment it's the most popular Arch based distro available and well worth a look..
Other than that, take your pick! Out of the hundreds of desktop distros available there's any number that might float your boat, so enjoy!!..
31 • systemd and mint (by edcoolio on 2018-07-19 09:22:27 GMT from United States)
Systemd? Honestly, I have never had a problem with it and my personal opinion is that accusations of "security issues" is way overblown. Big time.
It has been stable and has become ubiquitous. I'm cool with it.
As for Mint, my opinion is that it has turned into a trainwreck. A bloated distro, loaded with crapware, serious functional issues (we don't need no stinkin' WINE!) and a general air of Windows Wannabe Syndrome. What a shame, but they sure got the latest update out quickly!
A while back, my sisters small children needed a computer that was reliable and had an unbreakable OS, yet easy to use. Of course, loving Mint at the time, I slapped it on there. Recently, I removed Mint and installed MX 17.1.
Clean, fast, no massive bloat, no time-crap popups... oh yeah, no systemd either, only sysvinit. Kinda. Sorta. Systemd is on there for dependencies. See? I'm agnostic about the whole thing and the Linux Gods are smiling.
32 • Linux Mint still great (by Johannes on 2018-07-19 10:23:13 GMT from Germany)
@17 and @16
I also ran into the GRUB error while installing Mint 19 Tara and it cost me a few hours to find the solution (disconnect from the Internet!).
But still, Mint is a stable platform, usable in production. It can work for years on a machine, the updates are well tested, it is simply productive. And unfortunately, there are only a handful of those really stable distros. So apart of some details, I don't see reasons to spit on Linux Mint, as they are doing an excellent job.
33 • @31 • systemd and mint (by edcoolio on 2018-07-19 (by Az4x4 on 2018-07-19 17:48:03 GMT from United States)
"Systemd? Honestly, I have never had a problem with it and my personal opinion is that accusations of "security issues" is way overblown. Big time.
"It has been stable and has become ubiquitous. I'm cool with it."
---------------------------------------------
I'm with you regarding Systemd, sufficiently 'cool with it' not to get worked into a lather moaning about it's supposed issues.
----------------------------------------------
"As for Mint, my opinion is that it has turned into a trainwreck. A bloated distro, loaded with crapware, serious functional issues (we don't need no stinkin' WINE!) and a general air of Windows Wannabe Syndrome....."
----------------------------------------------
Gotta admit I too was disappointed with Mint 19 when I first installed it. Not sure I'd call it a 'train wreck', but this first 19 series release certainly felt like a sub-par release.
Some of that had to do with 'upstream' issues inherited from Ubuntu/Debian, and some boiled down to design decisions which hopefully will be revisited prior to 19.2 seeing the light of day.
This latest Mint release felt a bit like what we used to deal with back in the day when a new Windows release was what we waited for. Windows releases were always more a disappointment than we initially hoped for, once we had them installed and in use.
That sort of release disappointment is so out of character for Linux Mint that it's kind of hard to swallow. I honestly believe Clem and his team will iron these issues out and Mint 19.2 and 19.3 will again showcase the worlds most popular Ubuntu/Debian based desktop distro in its true light.
For what it's worth I'm running Linux Lite 4.0 in a Virtualbox and loving it. For new Linux users looking for a well designed easy to install and use desktop distro that'll do everything they have in mind, Linux Lite is tough to beat!..
34 • Linux Mint 19 (by jaws222 on 2018-07-19 18:29:54 GMT from United States)
I installed Mint 19 XFCE the day after it came out. it's fast and works as usual, except for the PlayonLinux/Office issue which is plaguing all Ubuntu derivatives. Once that gets figured out it will be perfect IMO.
35 • Systemd blows (init.d away) (by CS on 2018-07-19 19:06:35 GMT from United States)
I've never had a problem with systemd either.
Change my mind!
36 • #35 systemd (by vern on 2018-07-19 22:38:29 GMT from United States)
Their trying to change your mind, or convince themselves otherwise. I never had issue with systemd and I would miss its message uses. Why try and revive a dead "house" anyway. Just use systemd, journal and be on with it.
If you prefer the old init system, then just use. Stop trying to convince the rest of us to switch. It AIN'T going to happen.
37 • Upstream-- (by mchlbk on 2018-07-20 06:45:16 GMT from Denmark)
Blaming your issues on upstream is ridiculous.
The point of making a distro is to take something and make it better. If you don't make it better, your distro is a failure.
If it ain't broke - don't fix it. And if it ain't fixed - don't release it.
Simple.
38 • Tara & Trolls (by frisbee on 2018-07-20 11:48:24 GMT from Switzerland)
@ OS2_user: PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE stop trolling. You a source of „Fake News“ as long as their is OS/2, Windows or Distrowatch!
OS/2 is dead. Since 2006. It is obsolete and useless unless you use computers from 90‘s. Even succesor Ecomstation is as good as dead.
@ Winchester and others reading OS2_user posts: just ignore his posts. All he can do is praise the obsolete OS/2 and Windows. Never any valid arguments, just trolling. You can check Distrowatch archives.
@ pengxiun and all others: EVERY system has some HW issues, no matter is it Linux, Windows or even Mac (where everything is controlled and supposed to come from „one hand“).
You get yourself a brand new, shiny Asus ZenBook 13 UX331UAL and Windows 1803 does not install.
Check https://www.heise.de/ct/artikel/Notebook-Test-Asus-ZenBook-13-Wiegt-wenig-laeuft-lang-4108508.html if you don‘t believe. Just one of thousands examples.
@ Dedoimedo readers who take all he sais for granted: Once it was a source of interseting articles. More and more often getting a source of „Fake News“, desinformation and purly subjective views.
Mint 19 Tara is just fine. It has some inherited bugs and there is nothing to do about. Why? Because it’s Linux. There are GTK2 & 3, QT4 & 5, ... countless frameworks and applications mixed in there and only way to change it, is to get it all under a serious company (which will try to earn money with it and tell what is „right for you„) or, you rewrite it all on your own for your own distribution.
All important things work in Tara.
- Installs fine and HW recognition is as good as ever.
- Multimedia works out of the box (MP3 & MP4).
- Wine (3.0) over PlayOnLinux works.
- VirtualBox works just fine.
You don‘t like the default Theme? Get yourself another one or write yourself your own.
39 • @36 vern: (by dragonmouth on 2018-07-20 12:43:26 GMT from United States)
Why don't you take your own advice and quit trying to convince everybody that systemd is The Greatest Thing Since Sliced Bread. If you like it, use it. Let others use what they will.
40 • @38 Tara "just fine" (by curious on 2018-07-20 12:47:14 GMT from Germany)
Mint 19 Tara may be "just fine", especially compared to some of the more user-unfriendly distros out there.
But I think the reason for a lot of the complaints is that Mint used to be *better* than "just fine". Mint 17 was definitely excellent. The versions before 17 also were generally praised a lot. And Mint 18 was also very good, though I haven't seen any compelling improvement over 17 except for it being "newer".
Now, for version 19, you have to emphasize that "all important things work in Tara", as if that were something very special. It is not - it is in fact less than what Mint users have come to expect, which is why many people appear to be disappointed.
41 • Welcome to the DW asylum (by Willie Buck Merle on 2018-07-20 13:05:37 GMT from United States)
Well, the antiSystemDers can whine as much as they wish because the linux-desktop really ain't what linux is best at or used for the most. If you can install ANY desktop version without much fussing-about that is a VICTORY indeed... take it.
As far as security concerns the points are well-taken... BUT going all the way back to OS/2 or PowerPC chips for a solution to those problems? LOL! Get the rubber room ready. I better appreciate the steps FORWARD like patches instead of obsolete hw/sw.
Lastly, perhaps the poll on boot environments could use "I am using the bootCD PE environments for troubleshooting" cuz that's what first came to my thinking.
Peace,
wbm
42 • About "Opinion poll" (by Yuri on 2018-07-20 12:05:44 GMT from Russian Federation)
what do you mean "I am using boot environments with another file system"?
Please, examples.
43 • Boot environments (by Jesse on 2018-07-20 13:43:25 GMT from Canada)
@42: I think you could rig up other file systems which use snapshots to work with boot environments. HAMMER, for example.
44 • @ 40 (by frisbee on 2018-07-20 15:01:34 GMT from Switzerland)
What did you expect from Tara, except that it „just works“?
Mint 19 is just fine, same as 18, same as 17 ... All that worked before, still works exactly the same way and it even got some new feathures like Timeshift, which can even be used without some sucidal file formats like BTRFS.
It simply does what‘s made for — so, what exactly is missing or not working in Tara that was better under Qiana?
45 • Linux Mint (by R. Cain on 2018-07-20 18:35:36 GMT from United States)
I have confidence in the bright future of Linux Mint for one reason; one over-riding reason: Clement Lefebvre.
You can say what you will about all the negative comments which have appeared (see below) in Mint’s blogs centered around the introduction of Mint 19, but one fact is absolutely undeniable: THEY HAVE APPEARED, for the world to see. Based on the general tone of the comments, a superficial reading might lead one to the conclusion that the Mint organization needs to take a basic lesson in subterfuge, or at a minimum, investigate the merits of engaging in what is popularly, currently known as ‘fake news’.
It is my considered opinion that what IS happening is absolutely consistent with the personality, demonstrated hard-work ethic, and supremely good grace which has led Clement Lefebvre--essentially single-handedly, with ‘a few good men and women'--to create one of the best examples of what an outstanding Linux distribution can and should be. Two of the best of his works, among almost all others, are Mint 13 (Maya) and Mint 17.3--Quiana--the VERY best (the only distribution I know of to receive a 10/10 rating from ‘dedoimedo’).
Consider that, in total, there have appeared--by tolerable reckoning--almost 2700 comments to Linux Mint’s blogs relating to the releases (beta and final) of Mint 19, Tara, as well as Mint Linux 19 upgrade instructions--a goodly percentage being complaints. Interestingly, but not unsurprisingly, a lot of the complaints have been accompanied by accolades as well--even the (almost) multi-page diatribes.
When Mint’s web-site was hacked back in 2016, Clement Lefebvre’s response was to be as open and transparent as possible, sharing all details with the world; from as detailed as possible forensic analysis of the hack itself, to all aspects of Mint’s hardware and software solutions--including vendors and other solution-providers. M. Lefebvre also went to great pains to educate his existing and potential user-base in the strategies--some newly implemented--for protecting oneself against possible future similar actions by “bad actors”. It has been suggested that other distributions have experienced similar incidents, but none were nearly--if at all-- as forthcoming as M. Lefebvre. It would be very hard for most to exceed this level of dedication to the very people who depend on you; a very uncommon trait in today’s world.
My opinion is that this is Clement Lefebvre’s response to pressure, both external as well as internal, to succumb to that lunacy which now infects almost every Linux distribution nowadays: “...to hell with Quality Assurance and Validation Testing; we need a new version / point release NOW!”. It should quickly be added that there are (a very few) exceptions to this current, poisonous “churn’ mentality (it is well worth spending some--perhaps a LOT of-- time considering just exactly *why* these few exceptions seem to have most all the qualities which are considered desirable in a Linux distribution).
My belief--and that is all it is--is that what is happening with Mint is a momentary ‘bubble’ in the expansion of the Linux space-time universe; it is Lefebvre’s method of pointedly emphasizing *precisely* to all the ‘bigger, faster, newer, do-everything’ aficianados and proponents that you can’t have--even with relatively unlimited resources--"bigger, faster, better, do-everything” and be outstanding at the same time (does the word ‘Microsoft’ ring a bell?).
Linux MINT has already demonstrated many times and in a myriad of ways that it *can* be outstanding. Once M. Lefebvre has made his point, it will be again. In spades.
As we say in my part of the world, the only way to get some peoples’ attention is “...with a brick upside the head”. You may not be familiar with our / my colloquialisms, but I’m certain you understand. I think that Clement Lefebvre, while not being from anywhere near my part of the world, understands with laser sharpness, and absolutely.
Just wait for the results once the bubble stabilizes.
"You can (and should) slow down and learn how things work"-- Dru Lavigne
46 • the slow decline of Linuxmint (by for what it's worth on 2018-07-20 19:30:31 GMT from United Kingdom)
I latched onto Linuxmint when it first came out and thought I had found the best user friendly desktop distro available. It was easy, fast and stable running under the Gnome 2 desktop manager. I stuck with it till Mint 10 (which I still keep installed on a ageing laptop).
After Mint 10 it started to get increasingly bloated requiring ever greater resources just to keep up to the performance of past releases. Gnome 2's fork Mate is part of the problem. It has grown into a resource eating monster.
Of course, Linuxmint is not alone in this regard. There has been a serious decline in most Linux-based OS performance over the past decade. A bit like what happened to Windows 2 decades ago.
My preferred Desktop workhorse is now Debian-stable Sparky 4.x. Comparatively low on resource use but with all the power and speed to preform efficiently. Easy to install and configure any DE you want.
I still install and play with Linuxmint, but more out of nostalgia than anything else.
47 • Linux Mint 19 v2 isos now available.. (by Az4x4 on 2018-07-20 20:47:51 GMT from United States)
Linux Mint has posted Mint 19 version 2 ISOS for those who may be interested. Apparently some of the issues people have complained about have now been addressed..
https://ftp.heanet.ie/pub/linuxmint.com/stable/19/
48 • @36 systemd (by paoloschi on 2018-07-21 07:46:00 GMT from Italy)
> If you prefer the old init system, then just use.
but a detail escapes you: you are free to use systemd without any interference from any other init sw and instead (me) we, who would like to "just use other init", we find ourselves having to divincolate from a growing number of packages that still force us to install unwanted dependencies and various libraries belonging to systemd.
despite we are using a different init sw!
Was this little detail known to you?
Would you like to use systemd with the hassle of another sw init that forces you to install unnecessary sw and therefore "harmful"?
If your job was that of System Admin with the freedom to choose to only administer non-systemd installations (because you find that systemd complicates your daily tasks ...) ... nowadays you would be unemployed: systemd has propagated with the logic of the monopolist ...
Therefore, do not come and talk to us about freedom of choice or equal opportunities.
I just hope that you systemd fans are all under 20 years old: it would be more justifiable your current belief and possibly there will be enough time for you to realize how you let yourself be "eaten" your chance to control your lives...
49 • BTRFS : Post # 44 (by Winchester on 2018-07-21 13:20:26 GMT from United States)
BTRFS is perfectly stable in my experience. 20 months going strong. OpenSUSE Tumbleweed root / partition.
It was in its earlier days when there were problems. Seems to have been fixed.
50 • @49 (by frisbee on 2018-07-22 06:54:33 GMT from Switzerland)
It all comes to use case. It may be fine for home use. For me personaly and for the most of the companies out there, BTRFS is a no go.
„Files with a lot of random writes can become heavily fragmented (10000+ extents) causing thrashing on HDDs and excessive multi-second spikes of CPU load on systems with an SSD or large amount a RAM.
On servers and workstations this affects databases and virtual machine images.“
https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Gotchas
Many other week points you can find here:
https://rudd-o.com/linux-and-free-software/ways-in-which-zfs-is-better-than-btrfs
51 • ZFS File System (by R. Cain on 2018-07-22 09:27:37 GMT from United States)
@50--
Very good points, and two very good references. The 2nd one is recommended as 'required reading' for anyone who wants a good, painless introduction to ZFS.
"...the Project [PCBSD] started working on some interesting things, many of which take advantage of the ZFS filesystem....with Life Preserver it is trivial to schedule automated ZFS snapshots (think backup of your files) and to timeslide between previous versions of files...These snapshots can also be scheduled to be replicated (backed up) to another system. If...I want to recreate it, I simply boot a PC-BSD installation disk on another computer, connect to the backup system, and restore the selected backup.... PersonaCrypt for logging into an encrypted USB stick (so that I can securely travel with my important files)...switching to Tor mode for anonymous browsing...safely updating the operating system or packages without fear that the update will break existing software. Should an upgrade be problematic, I simply reboot...The backup, restore, and safe updates are features that I find necessary for my own desktop and which I miss when I’m not on a PCBSD system. In this day and age, why aren’t all filesystems and operating systems doing this?..."
"... We are now starting to see a lot of long-time Linux users who are looking for an alternative to systemd and who are curious about ZFS."
--Dru Lavigne, BSD Mag, 09/2015--
52 • Linux Mint and upstream (by Rolf H. on 2018-07-22 10:03:52 GMT from Norway)
I find it ironic that the Mint developers blame Ubuntu (upstream) for all that goes wrong, but does not acknowledge that Mint is 98% Ubuntu and most of what makes Mint good is the Ubuntu LTS base and the work Cannonical and the Ubuntu community does for them for free.
That said, of course, the Mint people do some excellent work with Cinnamon and creating a good desktop experience. Now that they have reversed their stance on kernel updates from Ubuntu and made a saner update tool (the old update tool made Linux Mint insecure by default for years and even warned users of choosing the only secure setting, which says something of the people developing Mint and their lack of understanding of security), Linux Mint might once again be recommended to new users coming from Windows that want a more Windowsish desktop experience.
I also don't get why Mint doesn't work towards becoming an official Ubuntu flavour with the Cinnamon desktop. Then they would benefit from all the Cannonical infrastructure and could cooperate with the other flavours on common problems and solutions when that makes sense, instead of constantly fighting the people that give them 98% of their distro for free. Maybe the egos in the Mint community are just too large to be a constructive part of the open source community?
53 • Post # 50 (by Winchester on 2018-07-22 14:05:04 GMT from United States)
Much of that info on BTRFS is not applicable to basic personal usage.
Such as " turn a copy of a filesystem that is stored in a file into a block device with the loopback driver...".
I don't think that I'll be attempting that. I can't think of a reason that I would need to.
And,since I am using BTRFS as only the root / partition,manual defragmentation of the /home partition is not applicable either.
Furthermore,the article in the second link was last updated four years ago. ZFS might be "better". I don't know. I have yet to try it. The information may still stand but,hasn't BTRFS been improved upon over the past four years?? It sure seems that way to me .... or it could be just a result of the basic purposes that I am using it for.
54 • Mint & Upstream Projects (by M.Z. on 2018-07-22 22:43:37 GMT from United States)
I think we all need to be able to acknowledge the reality of how Open Source & especially GPL software actually works & was intended to work. The whole infrastructure was built on sharing & dialog between developers & users of software, who would build on each others work, share, & collaborate as they see fit. Under the GPL, new Distros or software projects can of course simply take the software & fork it into something entirely new, but they can also join projects or simply collaborate as they see fit.
There is no obligation under the GPL to do anything beside make software source code available to others; however, cooperation upstream seems to be the preferred method of becoming a part of the GPL/Open Source community.
So what do we see from users who aren't a part of this collaborative process & see something go wrong? A bunch of silly blame games & attacks on community projects for not fixing problems created upstream at other projects with far more resources. The only Distro that could probably muster major resources to fix any issue in short order is probably Red Hat, & to a lesser extent SUSE & Canonical/Ubuntu might be able to come close to doing the same. I suppose that FreeBSD & some other projects might have enough corporate backing or other resources to fix issues quickly; however, that is very much the exception in the world of Linux & BSD distros rather than the rule.
I think Mint has always made it fairly clear that you should only upgrade when you're sure you want or need to, & that waiting a bit to see how things shake out is a good policy in the view of the Mint team. Mint has also been clear from the beginning that they are a community project built on the work of others, but following their own vision for what makes a great desktop OS that appeals to as many users as possible. The reality is that bugs happen in all software & Mint clearly can't solve all the problems with all the software they use on their own, but they do a good job of striving to fix their own issues & minimizing the issues users encounter by warning users to upgrade deliberately, providing excellent forms, & by creating mitigation tools like Mint Update or providing the recently introduced Timeshift integration. On the whole I think Mint is easily the best community based distro at handling these issues, though they are obviously not perfect, just as could be said of anyone else.
It's also worth noting that Mint has already done work to address some of the issues affecting version 19:
https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=showheadline&story=6457
@52
You seem to be making a lot of accusations without really knowing what the attitude of the Mint team is. They are very open about what their base system is & they even recommended Kubuntu for Mint KDE users. Also, hey look, they mention just what you said they didn't right here:
https://www.linuxmint.com/about.php
"*Based on Debian and Ubuntu, it provides about 30,000 packages and one of the best software managers."
Why make stuff up & try to attack a project trying to make a great desktop OS & that they give away?
I also don't get why anyone would make silly suggestions about ending the independence of a project like Mint that is already extremely successful in it own right. They seem to get far less wrong about the Linux Desktop than Ubuntu & if anything I, as a Mint user, would far rather see them base on Debian than be forced to merge with Ubuntu. That being said they seem to try to go out of their way to be nice to Ubuntu & even tried to downplay the fact that Ubuntu was completely shafting user privacy in their Unity desktop for a fairly long while. For as much as I like & respect most of the design decision in Mint & their general direction as a project, I have to say I thought Clement Lefebvre was far too nice to Ubuntu during that whole Unity privacy controversy.
Basically they are very far from the 'constantly fighting' stuff you seem to be making up. I also know for a fact that they have pushed code upstream to Gnome when they could fix bugs in both it & Cinnamon, so they seem to be a very good member of the open source community. Perhaps your ego as an Ubuntu fan is too big to acknowledge that others are doing better things with your beloved distro, but are also hitting some occasional bugs along they way?
Ubuntu has bugs just like Debian Linux, MS Windows, Apple Mac, ChromeOS & Android by Google, etc., & attacking someone for pointing that out does nothing positive for anyone. Such bugs will inevitably flow downstream & that is simply the nature of the world of Linux Distros. Acknowledging that is not an indictment of upstream projects like Ubuntu, or Debian for that matter, which is of course where 98% of Ubuntu comes from. Problems are inevitable, but solutions come to those that are willing & able to put in the work to fix them.
Number of Comments: 54
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