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1 • Poll (by DaveW on 2018-05-28 00:58:32 GMT from United States) |
In general, I have no problem with a vendor customized distro, so I voted no preference. However, I really don't like Gnome on a desktop computer. So that particular combo gets a thumbs down.
2 • OEMs Shipping computers with Linux preinstalled (poll) (by TuxRaider on 2018-05-28 01:09:43 GMT from United States)
i have no preference, they can roll their own custom distro if they want or ship a pre-made distro such as that listed right here on distrowatch, either way is fine with but i am really happy to see any Linux being shipped on an OEM PC, at least that gives people a choice other than MS_Windows, which is still a monopoly on IBM compatible PCs (which the government continues to ignore) and i wont be happy about that until i can walk in to any store selling computers and be able to pick any OEM Laptop or PC and choose my Linux distro of choice and the people at the store have several distros to choose from on DVD or thumbdrive, since i am spending hundreds or possibly over a thousand dollars on a Laptop or PC i should be given that choice during the purchase
3 • OEM Customized Linux Install (by Rev_Don on 2018-05-28 01:36:54 GMT from United States)
I have no problem with an OEM Customized Linux install, as long as it's done well. The problem is that most of the time they do a poor job of it, like the way Pop!_OS handles uninstalling any of the default apps. OEM's need to limit their customizations to drivers and optimizations pertaining to the hardware and leave the software packages separate from the desktop package.
4 • poll (by Tim Dowd on 2018-05-28 01:51:52 GMT from United States)
I voted I'd rather see a generic distro, but my vote should be taken with a grain of salt as most of my computers are surplussed junk that I enjoy keeping out of the eWaste stream. I'm not buying the kind of high end machine that this market is about, so I really should defer to the companies in terms of what their customers want.
The reason for my vote though, is that I think there are a number of distros now (Ubuntu MATE, Mint, Manjaro, Xubuntu) that out of the box are nearly perfect. I just would rather see their branding not diluted so that the public knows that these are good choices for machines other than just OEM.
But this is the great thing about open source: if this works for these companies and helps them sell machines and GNU/Linux, who am I to judge?
5 • Haiku (by Vern on 2018-05-28 02:02:30 GMT from United States)
I read a lot recently of Haiku. Mainly because it is/as inspired from BeOS. It would have been interesting had Apple taken that route.
Also, I was interested in BeOS and so were a lot of others, but developers leaving for whatever reason, left it flat. Still an interesting OS.
6 • Modicia (by Rebecca on 2018-05-28 02:30:59 GMT from New Zealand)
I've just downloaded Modicia... and after an hour in a Fusion VM, I hope they improve the installer - as in 'make it work'.....
7 • Poll - Generic OS? (by Dude on 2018-05-28 02:31:50 GMT from Bahrain)
I prefer a generic OS. I don't want to deal with proprietary driver hassles. I want my audio, video and wifi to work every time out of the box when I install the OS of my choice. An example of this is the Beebox mini PC that only supports Windows. I returned my Beebox when I found out Linux Mint was not supported.
8 • Pop! and @2 (by Angel on 2018-05-28 02:32:58 GMT from Philippines)
Installed Pop!_Os. Worked very well dual-booting with Windows 10. I like their theme and icons, although I think they may want to talk to a good graphics designer (or at least a good photographer) about their default background. I still prefer Ubuntu's version of Gnome, so I uninstalled, reinstalled Ubuntu, and got the Pop theme and icons from the PPA.
@2 Good God! There are 310 active distributions listed in Distrowatch, and many of them have multiple versions and DEs. Do you really expect computer retailers to keep that many on hand for your perusing pleasure? Think what it would do to the cost of a PC, for one. I live in the Philippines, where I can purchase just about any PC without an OS. An 8g USB key costs about 4 or 5 USD, and it takes me less than and hour to download and install most distros. Still, I generally buy with Windows already installed. Price difference is not much if any, and in my experience, branded PCs with Linux tend to cost more, not less. I use Windows, but even if not, Windows 10 can be wiped and reinstalled at any time in the life of the PC. Can make a difference should I want to dispose of the unit in future by selling or donating. Most people do nothing but Windows.
9 • Poll : custom distro,,, (by Rebecca on 2018-05-28 02:36:21 GMT from New Zealand)
My preference would be no OS of any kind - because we all prefer our own little tweaks to linux... and having to deal with a possibly unknown distro to bring it up to spec - it's easier by far to just slap in a Mint disk or an OpenSUSE disk... and get on with it!
Having seen what dealers are like when it comes to computers... even what they can recognise as a cimputer.... I have no faith that an OEM could come up with something that would be acceptable; I'd rather have $10-20 off the sales price!
10 • @8 Re Linux Distros in Stores (by Rev_Don on 2018-05-28 02:39:34 GMT from United States)
You need to read post #2 again. He does NOT say EVERY Distro. He says "the people at the store have several distros to choose from on DVD or thumbdrive".
11 • Reader Ratings (of each individual distribution) (by R. Cain on 2018-05-28 02:46:36 GMT from United States)
When I discovered the 'Reader Ratings' a while back, it seemed as though this was the answer to the "echo chamber" of self-congratulatory praise which most all distributions' 'forums' have degenerated into. It hasn't taken long to realize that the fanboys and girls know how to game the system, and will pad the venue with "10-ratings" after an objective lower rating review appears which points out shortcomings and cracks in the distribution which have been occurring for a long time, and getting worse; and which are, furthermore, common knowledge. That's what's so maddening--an objective comment followed by a whole lot of 'tenners' similar to, "It's great..."; "It's wonderful..."; "Never had any problems..."; "My grandma loves it..."; "I recommend this distro to ANYbody...". You get the idea (you probably got it way before this was posted).
It'd be nice if you could arrive at a scheme to deal with this problem without sacrificing civility, though that would be a Herculean challenge, I'm sure. Probably best to let the system be gamed, although some sort of a 'disclaimer message' to readers that any ratings which are obviously only the commenters' personal feelings should not be taken too seriously.
12 • Poll -- OEM Customizing Distro (by Andy Figueroa on 2018-05-28 02:53:48 GMT from United States)
As usual, the poll is worded such that I find no choice satisfactory. I do have a preference, and that is to let OEMs do whatever they please. Free Open Source software is about having the freedom of choice.
13 • POP! OS (by Andy Figueroa on 2018-05-28 03:06:12 GMT from United States)
Wow, both ugly and dysfunctional at the same time. I don't see anybody wanting that as their main desktop OS. But, since they are innovative, I think they should contribute their innovations to some established distro upstream.
14 • Custom distro on OEM machines (by argent on 2018-05-28 03:37:57 GMT from United States)
Never heard of System76 or Pop, it's a no-go with me.
Would steer clear of any deal like this, just an empty drive suits me.
Now we are all dumb for using Linux!
15 • Poll--Customized Linux Distribution by the Hardware OEM. (by R. Cain on 2018-05-28 03:54:03 GMT from United States)
It's time to grow up, boys and girls, and pull on your big-boy/girl pants,
Just who do you think is paying the tab for Pop!_OS? You think maybe System76 developed this and is GIVING it to you, for like FREE? Grow up, and fast,
This type thinking is exactly why the state of Linux is in a shambles; everybody just KNOWS that 'free software' means that nobody ever pays. Anything. And that anybody, including System76, can absolutely develop one dynamite distribution, And to Hell with all that QA and validation testing nonsense. What do you expect from a one-, two-, or at most a three-person development team. And you expect them to keep at it forever, right? For free, right?
The data is right here on DistroWatch, folks. There are 888 distributions in The Database; 524 discontinued distributions. Why do you think this is? Simple. No money for quality.
The only way to stop stop the 'System76 Nonsense' is to vote with your feet: let System76 know that you're not stupid, and that you absolutely KNOW how they plan on being compensated for yet one MORE Linux distribution which all the statistics--you know, that very pesky Mathematics of Large Numbers?--say is doomed to failure.
Recent history says that System76 knows how to make very good, dynamite hardware.
Much more ancient history says they will absolutely fail at making a very good Linux distribution.
I'll install my own Linux from amongst the top ten on DistroWatch, thanks very much.
16 • He, who pays the piper... (by Thom on 2018-05-28 04:01:55 GMT from Sweden)
One of the real turn-off when buying any form of computing device, be it a PC or a smart phone, is the pre-sale choice made by the vendor, who also sticks a sundry collection of crapware in their products that are useless, annoying, unwanted, and, worst of all, next to impossible to get rid off.
One of the good things about the BSD/Linux ecosystem is the freedom of choice and control in the hands of users rather than manufacturers or vendors.
The temptation to do a deal to preinstall and bake in a piece of shoddy software could be hard to resist and offering the paying customer a choice of OS/distro could be a way to prevent the creeping crapware itch and revive that old virtue of giving customers what they want.
17 • @#10 (by Angel on 2018-05-28 04:04:15 GMT from Philippines)
I did read it: "i wont be happy about that until i can walk in to any store selling computers and be able to pick any OEM Laptop or PC and choose my Linux distro of choice"
18 • re #11 (by x on 2018-05-28 04:20:27 GMT from United States)
I never read any reviews in the top rating categories for any product. Most of them are from people with a vested interest or just want attention. The lowest ratings are usually from those who do not know how to correctly use an item or who just want to trash something because they have nothing better to do.
The most honest reviews seem to be in the middle. I am able to make a more informed decision based on these and am more satisfied with the result. It is always about making concessions based on what is available vs the ideal.
19 • Pop Os (by lupus on 2018-05-28 05:27:15 GMT from Germany)
System 76 is well known for beeing a high priced top tier vendor of linux based computer systems. Not knowing them says mor about you than you´ll like to admit.
For me they should just offer a ppa. or other kind of means to get the drivers for the hardware they identified as working solidly for them and us in the Linux Realm.
Making a whole Distro with repositories and updates and whatnot is a tedious job for professionals that you have to pay one way or the other.
Using Linux the last couple of years taught me how to get along with older Hardware and I strongly believe most of the Linux enthusiasts enjoy the same view..... we're cheap.
All in all I don't see much use for another Vendor based Linux Distro. Cut the crap, do only the necessary minimum. Be prepared that once we'll maybe get our governments to use Data Secure Linux instead of Microsoft Data leak hellhole, then might be the time, but till then it's a waste of good money and intentions.
20 • opinion poll (by denk_mal on 2018-05-28 06:37:56 GMT from Germany)
I prefer a pre-installed oem distro even when I am using my own choice of distro because this will give a good base for hardware related problems.
Or to say it in other words; It the hardware is working in the oem distro but not on my choice I will have to search for the problem/solution but if the hardware fails on the oem distro then I have a change that the oem/community will help me.
21 • Reviews (by Hait on 2018-05-28 07:27:21 GMT from Germany)
I do not want a user experience decided by an oem, if i wanted that i could stay with windows. Something like buntu with gnome would send me straight out of the shop.
Reading reviews more or less reflects the views of an internal distro watch review reviewer. Write an honest review on a distro including bundled software,it might never get published, compare the reviews to forums and experience, read back away, you will find cut and paste 10 star reviews, same style in reviews of many distros. Statements like never had an issue in two years abound where honest reviewers had broken systems after updates. Reflected in forums but as my daughter tells me a number of critical reviews out of her school classs were never published.
22 • System76 etc... (by OstroL on 2018-05-28 08:06:48 GMT from Poland)
14" System76 is $1,118 with 8GB Ram, 120GB SSD and i7.
A 15" HP i7-7500U, 6GB Ram DDR4, 1TB hard disk with Windows 10 can be bought for the equivalent of $540 in my country. http://allegro.pl/laptop-hp-15-i7-fhd-6gb-1tb-r7-m440-windows-10-i7272729284.html?
How many Linuxes can I add to it, keeping Windows10 also? As the Linux distro is supposed to free, then how come the Linux laptop is so expensive?
23 • #15 (by denpes on 2018-05-28 08:10:05 GMT from Belgium)
No reason to be so preachy to the crowd. Most people know that the tab is paid by the customer. And that's how it should be. I can't afford their hardware, but I'm glad that there are companies like System76. At least you know for sure that their hardware is fully compatible with the linux kernel. And they are one of the gears that keep that market alive. It's fine that they create something to try to stand out. It's your choice to use it or not.
Now I have no preference what distro OEM's put on their hardware, only that they put a Linux distro on it. That way you are sure that all the hardware works with what's in the linux kernel. And then you can keep that install, or pick your own distro.
24 • Linux pre-installed is useless (by Kim on 2018-05-28 08:32:54 GMT from Austria)
Since Linux desktop market share hovers around 2% it is not worthwhile for most vendors to offer a Linux alternative. Preinstalled Windows is cheap enough, one can delete it without remorse. If parts of KDE tend to "close unexpectedly" and Gnome feels terrible the user can always go back to Windows without problems. Also, for people who value their time Linux might be a bit costly. Just my thoughts ... written on a Linux system ;-)
25 • System76 etc... ... ... (by Dude on 2018-05-28 08:35:25 GMT from United States)
I agree with #22. Why are Linux laptops so darned expensive? All of them cost more than a Windows laptop, and most of them cost more than a MacBook Air. I'd love to see a 13.3 Linux Laptop with a Core i3, 4gb of RAM and a 128gb SSD for $500. And of course easy RAM and SSD upgradeable (not soldered to the motherboard). Why, oh why, do Linux laptops have to cost over $1000???
26 • @#8 about 2 (by TuxRaider (me the author of #2 on 2018-05-28 08:47:52 GMT from United States)
they have high speed internet, they can download any distro available and put it on a DVD or thumbdrive in a few minutes, if i can do it in my home they can do it at their store
27 • Re: #22 (by silent on 2018-05-28 08:51:44 GMT from Hungary)
Comparing notebooks is not only about CPU power and storage capacity. The chassis can be made of plastics, aluminum alloy, magnesium alloy, carbon fiber, etc. A keyboard for IT professionals is not the same as a keyboard for home multimedia, or office. Reliability requirements can be quite different. Battery capacity and lifetime is also important. Some people are also willing to pay more fore a nice, thin design, especially if they travel a lot. HDD's are just heavier, slower, noisier than SDD's, use more electric power, therefore generate more heat, they are also more sensitive to mechanical shocks. It is up to you to decide what you need and how much you are willing to pay for it.
28 • Clevo and Sagar laptops... (by Kazan on 2018-05-28 09:09:54 GMT from United Kingdom)
System76 buys in bulk Clevo or Sager laptops. Unit price for an individual is bit higher, but around $800.
https://www.sagernotebook.com/Notebook-NP3141.html - $849
Interesting how much System76 prices its PopOS added to a laptop costing around $400 (bulk buying price)?
29 • None for me, thanks (by Trihexagonal on 2018-05-28 09:32:27 GMT from United States)
When I purchase a computer it can come without a HDD and be alright with me, much less one with someone else's idea of an Operating System pre-installed.
30 • Opinion poll @1 (by kc1di on 2018-05-28 10:44:44 GMT from United States)
I Agree with the first poster, voted no preference but have tried pop and just don't like gnome on it at all
cinnamon or kde would have been a better choice. IMHO.
Don't know why so many stick with gnome -- Think it's a heard mentality and Red Hat drives it some what with there RHEL Which is very gnome centric.
31 • OEM distro (by MikeOh Shark on 2018-05-28 11:32:38 GMT from Germany)
I think it highly unlikely that I would want to stick with an OEM version of a distro over the awesome choices which we find on Distrowatch. Of course, it is good to know that the hardware works and is supported by the OEM.
I would prefer to see the OEM provide a live Linux with persistence on a flash drive. Then even Windows users could know they have an emergency boot option and can set it up with their email and favorites so they can get online after the malware infection or Windows Update.
32 • @#26 (by Angel on 2018-05-28 11:41:07 GMT from Philippines)
Let me see: You want stores to keep a supply of several PCs and laptops, with no OS installed, just on the off-chance that you may walk in and demand a particular Linux distro on a particular laptop. Or maybe you want them to wipe Windows from any computer you may like and install your Linux for you, therefore voiding the warranty. Time is money, and the time involved in the downloading, burning and installing will be added to the cost. Never mind the expense of keeping a bunch of laptops and USB key around to please the minute percentage of demanding Linux users like you. Right!
Yes, God is a myth, and so is the year, month, week or even hour of the Linux desktop.
33 • shambles (by Tim Dowd on 2018-05-28 11:58:59 GMT from United States)
In what way is the state of Linux a "shambles?" It's honestly the best experience one can have with a consumer grade computer at this point.
With commodity amd64 hardware, I've had exactly 1 issue on default installs of Ubuntu MATE or Mint since 2015 and that is that some wifi cards don't have good Linux support. The fix is pretty simple - buy a 15 dollar dongle that's known to work with Linux and you're off and running.
Everything else is polished, fast, and exactly what I want, because there's tons of choice. Walk into a big electronics store and buy their cheapest 15 inch laptop. It will run (out of the box) pretty slow with Windows 10. Pick the desktop you like, find a distro that's known to support it well, install it, and you've got a cheap computer that performs about as well as a laptop costing a thousand dollars more. You've also got desktop programs like Gimp, LibreOffice, Shotwell, and Kodi which rival anything else out there.
We keep descending into fights in these forums because of things like people not liking one desktop. That's fine. There's no less than 7 major desktops out there with at least one distro that polishes them up great. That's not chaos- it's choice. We talk so much more at this point about which desktops suck than we do about which desktops we love and that's the wrong way of thinking about things.
34 • @15 I agree... (by brad on 2018-05-28 12:46:54 GMT from United States)
I really like the hardware specs of system76! And if PoP OS works on it, then most likely any established linux will work on it.. that takes the guess work (not that there's much these days) about hardware compatibility... so I'd get a system76 system and throw Arch Linux on it!
35 • @34 I'm on my 2nd System76 (by Clicktician on 2018-05-28 13:57:16 GMT from United States)
One reason I buy System76 gear is that they honor the warranty and support the hardware no matter what operating system I install on it. Try getting that from HP.
How hard is it to nuke an operating system and install something of your choice? We're all used to it. Having the box come with no operating system is of no advantage to me. I'm going to do exactly the same "partition and format" operations regardless of what's already on it. What I really want is for the vendor to stand behind the product no matter what software I install.
36 • @Andy Figueroa 12: (by dragonmouth on 2018-05-28 14:27:38 GMT from United States)
"Free Open Source software is about having the freedom of choice."
That choice is MINE to make, not the OEM's. OEMs should stick to providing hardware and leave the choice of software to the users. I can see providing pre-installed O/S for clueless Windows users but Linux users are capable of installing their own O/S and other software. After all, the vast majority of them installed Linux when they switched from Windows.
37 • OS tailored to hdw (by Jordan on 2018-05-28 14:04:28 GMT from United States)
We do that as we install our preferred distro. But the idea of having that done by the makers of a machine is appealing.
I voted that I'd rather purchase a computer with no OS at all on it, although I've never done that. Windows was on every computer I've ever purchased.
38 • @32 Angel: (by dragonmouth on 2018-05-28 15:01:13 GMT from United States)
I went to the local mom and pop to buy a laptop. I asked that they replace Windows with Linux. They were perfectly willing to do it for a fee. But their aim is a happy and satisfied customer, unlike the big box and chain stores whose only aim is to sell as many units as possible.
You assume that just because someone is using Linux, (s)he would want that kind of replacement done for free. We Linux users may be cheap but we are not freeloaders.
Computer stores do not need to keep a bunch of USB sticks. If someone requests that Linux be installed on the PC they are purchasing, the store can download it just as you and I would. So what if the warranty would be voided? It is not the store's problem but the customer's. You're just inventing straw man arguments.
39 • Choice of distro to review this week (by Brenton Horne on 2018-05-28 15:26:18 GMT from Australia)
I'm surprised that arguably the most important distro release of the past week, openSUSE Leap 15.0, wasn't reviewed in this week's DistroWatch. Pop!_OS is just another Ubuntu derivative tbh, nothing really impressive about it but openSUSE is an independent distro and Leap 15.0 has a few new innovative features. I'm guessing next week's DistroWatch will review Leap 15.0.
40 • openSUSE (by Jesse on 2018-05-28 15:46:47 GMT from Canada)
@39: >> "I'm surprised that arguably the most important distro release of the past week, openSUSE Leap 15.0, wasn't reviewed in this week's DistroWatch. "
openSUSE 15 was released approximately two days before this weekly was published. That is not enough time to properly evaluate a distribution, its changes and features. All the useful information I could have told you in that amount of time was "It installs in multiple environments and the live disc works."
>> "I'm guessing next week's DistroWatch will review Leap 15.0. "
41 • @17 Re: I did read it (by Rev_Don on 2018-05-28 16:09:41 GMT from United States)
You need to read ALL of the original post. It's the next section of that very sentence that places it all in context.
42 • POPos (and Lindows) are already flat fizz (by Willie Buck Merle on 2018-05-28 16:24:07 GMT from United States)
linux-for-desktop is 98% dinky distros and 2% useful/worthwhile endeavors. Far too many game the setup here on DW ratings, jez sayin FOSS fanboyz.
43 • OEM's load loading custom Distros on their hardware... (by tom joad on 2018-05-28 16:52:44 GMT from Netherlands)
It makes little difference to me much but I would prefer something Linux generic like Ubuntu or Mint. I voted that way too. Having a plain Jane distro loaded would clearly demonstrate the hardware will run Linux.
Over the years I have only bought one computer with Linux on it. It was a System76 too. The other computers I bought were windows machines that I careful researched before the buy.
I have used Pop_os on my HP Envy but Pop had an odd quirk to it so I moved on.
44 • Vendors using custom Distros (by George on 2018-05-28 17:25:41 GMT from United States)
Over the years I have purchased boxes with Linux installed, and also a couple commercial Linux OSes. All of these products worked well - better than my proprietary experiences. e.g. Libranet and its forum provided helpful solutions tailored to my problem. Commercial Open Source has saved me a bit of money and lots of time/effort.
However, half of these vendors are no longer operating. So I would not pretend to know what the best course is for a vendor like System 76 (and for its clients).
My basic personal preference is for fewer but more polished, more feature-packed, better supported distros. I'd like to see System 76 "use a generic distro", perhaps working directly with an established developer to implement a feature that clients request. However, regardless of my druthers, the best course for System 76 and its client base may be the "custom distro option" that it has taken.
Most likely this issue should be decided on a case-by-case basis, and not by applying some general preference to all cases.
45 • System 76 laptops & Pop!_OS (by fox on 2018-05-28 17:40:46 GMT from Canada)
@22, you are talking about apples and oranges when comparing a System 76 laptop to the HP you referred to. The System 76 is an ultrabook with a high speed SSD, not a heavy computer with a 5400 rpm drive (albeit 1 TB). I think that what System 76 is offering is comparable or maybe slightly more expensive than comparable ultrabooks, but you know it's going to work with Linux without a lot of the compromises one makes installing Linux on a Windows laptop.
Personally, I like Pop!_OS, enough that I installed it on two of my computers (just to play with it) and also, I like the theme enough (though not the default desktop picture) to install that in my Ubuntu partitions on those computers. Pop has nice design touches and several of their programs are, in my opinion, as good as or better than the Ubuntu equivalents. Also, I found that their 17.10 to 18.04 upgrade worked well. I'm glad they developed this and made it available to folks who have non-System 76 computers. I'm sure their distro will improve with time.
46 • System 76 and @#38 (by Angel on 2018-05-28 18:20:10 GMT from Philippines)
I don't know what all the fuss is about System 76. They offer a product for sale. If enough people find it of value so that the company can make a profit, they will succeed. They would like to make money, so what is wrong with that? If the opposite is true, they will fail. I don't need it, so I won't buy it. Others may want it and buy it. My opinion on the matter is only relevant to my actions. Others may. differ.
@#38, don't tell me about straw men. If I ran a computer store, I might do the same as your mom and pop's, as long as the customer will sign a release absolving the store of responsibility. But that's not what the OP wants. He wants to walk into ANY store, choose ANY computer, and have ANY distro he wants installed.
47 • Pop_OS! (by Sam on 2018-05-28 19:44:08 GMT from United States)
Good Lawd. Am I the only one here who thinks the folks at System76 should focus more on getting better battery life out of their kinda pricey computers and less on customizing Ubuntu?
48 • Pre-installed Pop (by Roy on 2018-05-28 20:25:09 GMT from United States)
I like building my computers from scratch. But if I was going to buy a whole computer I would like the idea of knowing it worked. So I opted for for the pre-installed Linux since I like distrohopping.
49 • @46 the problem... (by OstroL on 2018-05-28 22:26:07 GMT from Poland)
System76 buys Clevo and Sagar laptops for about $400 apiece, someone posted. The thing is, no one knows the brands Clevo or Sagar. Even, if they have i7 and 500 SSD, no one I know would buy that with even Windows 10 on it at $500. Its a no-name laptop. Those companies would produce a laptop with your name even. So, how much is Pop OS? Another $500?
50 • Pop! OS... (by Marc Visscher on 2018-05-28 22:28:54 GMT from Netherlands)
Very funny, because Pop! OS is exactly what GNOME 3 does to it's users: leave no choice than what THEY have in mind for an OS. It's ridiculous to see that if you install something else than the base software given in Pop! OS, that the whole theme uninstalls itself. I know why they do it, but come on... just develop a good theme so that every program in the Pop! OS theme looks uniform in looks style.
Pop! OS, GNOME 3... are they really part of the Linux ecosystem? Linux stands for choice, and that's exactly what's missing in both projects. In other words: they are both not for me.
51 • Pre-installed Linux systems (by Bobbie Sellers on 2018-05-28 23:18:51 GMT from United States)
Well I can scarcely afford a used computer these days.
When I was buying new stuff it had Windows installed
and that Windows partition quickly was reduced to as
small as I could get it then the Linux OS of my choice
went on .
Present notebook is a Dell E6520 and the 700 Gigabyte
hard drive in it is from the last new computer, I bought,
an HP had a 4 core AMD and Windoze 8.1, That
Windows is still on the drive but it is dead as the Dell
cannot run it. Perfectly fine waste of hard disk space and
if I feel richer some day may get the Dell verision of 8.1
to just have a working copy at hand to complain about.
My favorite Linuxes went on the old HP, Mageia and
PCLinuxOS64. Currently running KDE Plasma 5 which
gives me plenty to whine about, but it still
lets me compose my Virtual Desktop as I like it.
Last week I downloaded the latest CentOS Live KDE
and it had version Plasma 4.15.8 and I nearly moved to it.
52 • Opinion Poll - OEMs and custom distros install. (by Ralph on 2018-05-29 00:13:24 GMT from United States)
I think that OEM's should follow generic distros or have no OS pre-installed. Custom pre-installed distros negate one of the fundamental learning processes of Linux. DYI will most surely die and ops will only 'look' for some script to do the work for them, learning points earned 0. I came to Linux know I would get a blank slate every time I Installed a new distro.
Now I do believe a distro can offer flavors, like Ubuntu and others do. They seem to be in the correct position to do so. Following user request to do so.
For me its never been about the speed of getting my system up and running as fast as possible but the knowledge of what exactly has been added to the bare disto to have what I want and nothing more. BTW, I am an old guy whos first computer was a Comodore PET with 8K of RAM. So from the get go I have been very aware of whats loaded into memory and Windows TSR crap drove me to Linux. The best drive I've ever been on!
53 • @#50, choice (by Angel on 2018-05-29 00:30:57 GMT from Philippines)
I love it when people claim Linux is all about choice, but if someone dares to offer a choice they don't like, they want to ban them from the "Linux ecosystem," whatever that is. Must be some quasi-official Linux cult from which one can get excommunicated.
In just about all surveys I've read asking about the best loved distro, (not in Distrowatch) Arch usually comes out on top. Now go on the Arch forums and try telling them that Arch should do things your way, and you will get a choice: Go use something else. That, my friend, is choice. You don't like Pop!_OS? (Wish they'd come out with an easier to type name.:)) Use something else. You want to keep the theme? It's freely available on a PPA, so I have no idea what you are complaining about. I am using it right now on Ubuntu, because I like it, my choice. But you seem to think that choice is about anyone offering anything Linux allowing you to do whatever you want with it, with no effort whatsoever on your part. Maybe you should go try Arch, then you can do what you want with it, as long as you put in the time, the learning and the effort. You will surely learn about choice.
54 • Opinion Poll (by Fantomas on 2018-05-29 00:33:44 GMT from France)
I prefer to have no OS pre-installed. Thank you very much. And no System76, for me. Thank you very much. (Its the Price)
55 • poll (by figosdev on 2018-05-29 02:38:19 GMT from United States)
"no preference" was closest to how i feel, but it depends.
custom distro option: i have nothing against a vendor creating a distro, olpc is the best example in my opinion
use a generic distro: for most vendors this is probably better, in theory
no OS pre-installed: it certainly ensures choice, doesnt it?
i love distros, but people are so "distrocentric" when its really about "the software." if the team or the players become too much more important than the game being played. i love when its about "the love of the game," when its about the software, not the brand or the culture of each distro. i mean even that "local culture" is fine if its opt-in, but how many subcultures really deliver on that level of freedom? who is going to tell me how i should be using ubuntu? but it happens all the time.
56 • Pre-installed distros from hardware vendors (by Ben Myers on 2018-05-29 04:54:22 GMT from United States)
Pre-installed is fine. Vendor "customization" of a distro may be fine or maybe not so fine. I take no issue with a vendor-specific screen when the system boots up. And I have no problem with other bits and pieces and bitmaps proudly identifying the vendor. But vendors have to make up their minds whether they want to be in the hardware business or the software business.
So what business are the Pop!_Os people in? Selling hardware with Linux pre-installed or peddling their own unique distro plus hardware. Pre-installation is added value, especially for the people who cannot do it themselves or do not have the time to do it. As always, I have to wonder whether the other unique elements of Pop!_Os (like other distros) are worth the time, effort and money to develop them, or if these are simply an attempt to set the distro apart from others.
I talking about Pop!Os here simply because it was reviewed this week. The same questions apply to other distros.
57 • Pre-installed OS (by JIm on 2018-05-29 10:22:44 GMT from United States)
I am with Ostrol and Dude. I would love to by a Linux laptop but I am not spending that kind of money. I have bought refurbished computers, with no OS or a sketchy version of Windows which I wipe, and then install a Linux OS. I get more bang for my buck and have had as good of luck with these as with new compuiters.
Another problem with Linux computers is the life of the pre-installed OS. Why is Dell offering their new Precision Mobile Workstation with Ubuntu 16.04 LTS when 18.04 is out and available? Why buy a computer that has very limited time left on the pre-installed OS?
58 • System76 vs Pinebook vs HP Pavilion vs Chromebook (by Tech in Warner Springs on 2018-05-29 11:19:50 GMT from United States)
I just ordered a 14″ PINEBOOK LINUX LAPTOP w/o the OS for $99.99. Now, I fully understand that you get what you pay for, but it does come with some respectable specs. It reminds me of a Pi on steroids. At any rate It will be an interesting little project and at $100 dollars it's worth a try. I'd be interested in sharing my review of the unit if anyone is interested. Here is the URL if you want to take a closer look at the unit. https://www.pine64.org/?product=pinebook
As far as the rest of the hardware I have listed in my subject line, I have tried them all but I keep coming back to the old trusty HP Pavilion line of laptops. The last one I purchased from Amazon was under $400 bucks and while it was a dog trying to run Windows 10, its perfect for Linux. For those who are skeptical I have included the specs for that unit as well.
2017 Newest HP Silver 17.3" Pavilion 17-g121wm Laptop PC with an AMD A10-8700P Quad Core Processor, 8GB Memory, 1TB Hard Drive and Windows 10 Home. Sold by: MobileMonster at $390.00.
Compared to System76 and the latest craze in Chromebooks, I find it difficult to justify the price for one of these units. It's like a status symbol, "look man, I just bought this cool iPhone and it only cost $1,200 bucks and it matches my iWatch!, and the best part is, with the money I had left over I purchased this cool Chromebook".
For the life of me I don't understand why anyone would purchase an under performing and expensive piece of hardware, it's just beyond belief.
If I get enough interests in the Pine-Nuts Laptop from the DistroWatch regulars, I will write a review of the unit and share my findings with the group.
All the Best!
Tech in Warner Springs
PS My current Pavilion is running MX Linux 17 w/37 VM's installed of which I have 3-5 running at once to power my telescopes.I even have a copy of Windows XP, Vista, Windows 7 and 10 just for nostalgia's sake.
59 • @50 Angel: (by dragonmouth on 2018-05-29 12:52:41 GMT from United States)
The kind of choice you are talking about is the arrogant "My way or the highway" choice Microsoft gives people which many Linux distro developers seem to have adopted. Nowadays, to get any meaningful choice in Linux, one must get into a DIY distro such as Gentoo, Linux From Scratch or Source Mage.
60 • System76 vs Pinebook vs,,, (by R.Cain on 2018-05-29 13:27:40 GMT from United States)
'Flabbergasted' is the only word which is applicable here,
A Linux computer for 99 DOLLARS ? !
You say, "...you get what you pay for...", and, in the main, you're right; but I just now searched on "pinebook linux laptop" and was blown away by the great reviews this machine is getting in reviews as late as early 2018, and in the same reviews with other machines (not AGAINST other machines, but WITH other 'low-cost' machines; like $250 and more).
I don't have time to pursue this further, but when I get back, I'm definitely ordering one of these for my wife (and for me to play with), who needs a new e-mail checker (only) to replace an old netbook. One of my first projects will be to see if installing AntiX will be a performance-enhancer; it definitely should be.
"... I'd be interested in sharing my review of the unit if anyone is interested...". By all means. Please.
My only complaint? The $89, 11.6" unit is no longer available. This would have fit nicely into my briefcase. I know: 'bitch, bitch, bitch..."
61 • Pop OS review: what is missing (by curious on 2018-05-29 14:50:13 GMT from Germany)
With "systemd-boot", it would be very interesting to find out how multi-boot friendly it is, i.e. whether it can actually replace Grub without causing trouble with other installed operating systems (especially those that don't have systemd).
The other really important aspect that was not tested: installing a useful desktop environment (i.e. not Gnoem3 or Unity).
62 • oem distro (by eznix on 2018-05-29 17:16:42 GMT from United States)
If I ever bought a new system I would like to see system retailers install a generic, vanilla, Debian or Fedora install on the system so I can be assured most any Linux I choose to use will work out of the box on my purchased system. I am going to wipe and install what I want anyhow, so why waste my time with OEM customized distros - a grand waste of time for the retailer and no proof that special drivers and setups are not needed on their hardware.
I buy only used desktop systems, never laptops, and I like my systems about 3-5 years behind the times. I do not use Windows or Mac ever, I could not care less about them. Since I buy used desktops, I usually get a Windows license if I want it.
63 • small linux computer (by Tim Dowd on 2018-05-29 17:52:31 GMT from United States)
If you want a small cheap 11inch computer running Linux, I'd recommend a second-hand ARM chromebook from a few years back. It's not too hard to put a linux environment into a chroot using the program Crouton.
It's a little tricky and I know some people won't trust using the Chrome kernel, but it's been an awesome thing and cost me 40 bucks. I've had good luck using Debian Buster in the chroot running XFCE.
64 • Custom distro actually great for custom solution though (by BeGo on 2018-05-30 03:01:00 GMT from Indonesia)
That because the vendors could specialized their laptop according to the target segment, for example,
Uberstudent inspired laptop and OS for students. :)
65 • New-Linux-Distribution-Development by a hardware vendor. (by R. Cain on 2018-05-30 03:15:41 GMT from United States)
"... Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out.” --Prof. W. Kotschnig, 1940.
1. Users of Linux, particularly those who have no problem using another tool when that's appropriate, are probably as good an example of an extremely open-minded group of people as one can find.
2. It seems that paying--and a lot, at that--for a Linux distribution which has no track record and nothing to recommend it, from a source which has no track at writing a Linux operating system constitutes not any semblance of open-mindedness but, rather, having one's brains fall out.
3. If one feels an uncontrollable urge to spend several hundred dollars on an operating system, demonstrate your level of seriousness by contributing that amount to any one--or several--of the very good distributions on DistroWatch; you just may ensure the survival of one which deserves to survive.
Strictly a personal opinion; nothing more.
66 • @50 (by desktop on 2018-05-30 04:38:55 GMT from Portugal)
If it makes sense that 90+ in 100 desktop users believe Linux isn't good enough, then, to say Linux desktop a, b, c, isn't good enough, is common sense :)
67 • Pop, no-OS or Linux-preinstalled machines (by Hoos on 2018-05-30 05:43:45 GMT from Singapore)
What harm is there having an aspirational Linux machine? It's another choice, innit?
If it's not for the majority of users, that's fine, but perhaps there are people who want to run Linux on something nice that didn't originally hold a Windows OS?
As for whether or not a hardware seller should also "dabble" in making a bespoke distribution, I guess the question is whether it's executed well. I can't really comment on how well Pop OS works. But looks-wise I can see it fitting the hipster vibe of their marketing for their Galago Pro ultrabook.
I've think it's good that Linux-only hardware sellers exist. I wish them all the luck. It can't be easy going up against sellers of Windows machines who might be able to sell at lower prices due to discounts or cash incentives given by Microsoft to sellers to preinstall Windows on their machines.
It's better than not even having that choice in the market.
Of course I also wish that brand name manufacturers more readily offered a no OS choice with their machines.
So I think the best scenario is for shops to offer also to install one of a few selected (ie, more well known) distros on no OS machines. But I won't criticise Linux-computer sellers trying to find their own distinctive niche in the market.
68 • Use Linux (by Wakeup on 2018-05-30 06:48:53 GMT from Germany)
90+ in 100 desktop users believe Linux isn't good enough, then I think they have never used it.
Of more than 70 installations only one went back to windows for a while, the user complained something was wrong because his computer had become so slow. It was mining some crypto but not for him.
His desktop is now XFCE.
I have to use win on occasion for the simple reason that workshop car diagnostic will only run on that, answer is an ancient notebook used for no other purpose, connect to the internet and a few hours later our internal data is somewhere else. If the shop burns down maybe I can ask for my data back from the blue screen champs.
69 • User ratings of distros (by Jordan on 2018-05-30 10:44:12 GMT from United States)
@11 Yes. I think you're right. Similar to the PHR, there are fans of distros who come to just promote the distro. I've done it with "fly by" visits here for the sole purpose of clicking my favorite two distros. But the user rating of the distro I'm using or testing I take more seriously and do assign the number of stars to it that I feel is truly appropriate in my opinion.
But yes I do wonder about some of those 5 star ratings in there, especially for distros that reviewed here badly, or on other sites badly.
70 • Pop! OS... (reaction to #53) (by Marc Visscher on 2018-05-30 12:36:16 GMT from Netherlands)
You're funny dude! Linux IS what choice is all about, in every way possible. Maybe it's okay for you that a software programmer of FREE (you know RMS's meaning of that word, don't you?) software builds in restricitions so that it behaves as commercial or proprietary software. That's not the experience I prefer. If software feels or behave like that, I might as well stay on Windows.
Pop! OS and GNOME 3 are all about making restrictions to the user and take away the user's experience in a way the user see fit best to themself. It behaves more and more like Android. And therefore I don't use, want it or even support it. And that's exacly what I do: walk around it with a wide angle. I don't buy Pop! OS (but still respect System76 for selling at least Linux hardware!) and I'll never use GNOME 3. And concerned the latter: what's the use of being "minimal", while GNOME 3 only runs on heavy specs machines? A lightweight desktop environment does exactly the same, but better and with a lot lower footprint.
To me Xfce, MATE and KDE are the most flexible desktop environments of all, and they fit into what Linux should be: free to make the choice YOU want how you want to use it and/or behaves (within the boundaries of what it's capable of course). And to me Xfce is the champion in this Top 3. I can make Xfce look exactly like Gnome 2/MATE, KDE, GNOME 3, Unity and even Windows and MacOS. That's flexibility, my friend.
You like GNOME 3? You like Pop! OS with all the restrictions that comes along with it? Fine! Good for you. It's just a matter of taste. Like it should be.
And for your information: I'm using Linux, BSD, Windows (for work), MacOS (occasionally, for music production) and even sometimes Unix on a very old SPARC-machine. Linux and BSD are my OS'es of choice since 2003, and I've played around with every major distro and even a lot more since then. So yes, I do use Arch too. Along with Xubuntu, Linux Mint, Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, OpenSuSE Tumbleweed and Fedora on multiple machines in multiboot. But all these distro's respect me to make my own choices how I use it.
Again, what I said is not a flame to System76. I still respect their effort to put Linux hardware into the market, and I give them big credit for that. The only thing I criticize is that their OS is behaving a bit too much like a commercial product. The same criticism is for the underlying OS of Pop! OS, GNOME 3. Is this a "today's trend" by the way? If so, I'll hope this trend will be over soon.
If I decide to buy a System76 laptop, the first thing I do is get rid of the OS pre-installed and replace it with something which suits me better. At least that's still a choice nobody can take away from me. ;-)
71 • @68,50 (by desktop on 2018-05-30 13:46:38 GMT from Portugal)
"90+ in 100 desktop users believe Linux isn't good enough, then I think they have never used it." Same goes for Linux users of desktop K, who never used desktop x,y,z. Of course...
72 • @71 etc (by Kazan on 2018-05-30 15:44:28 GMT from United Kingdom)
"90+ in 100 desktop users believe Linux isn't good enough, then I think they have never used it."
It is the same for those who had not used Windows 10...they have not used it.
73 • Reaction to #71 and #72 (by Marc Visscher on 2018-05-30 19:49:51 GMT from Netherlands)
Since my first experience with Linux back in 2003 I've used lots of desktop environments. Since 2003 KDE 2, 3, 4 and 5, Xfce 3 and 4 up til version 4.12. Further I've used GNOME 2 and 3, but since version 3.18 GNOME totally lost me as an user. I've used (and in some cases still use: Unity, MATE, LXDE, LXQt, Enlightement, Moksha, Lumina (on BSD) Budgie (also too much GNOME 3 for me), Cinnamon (maybe the best implementation of GNOME 3 and not so bad at all at this moment), IceWM, Fluxbox, Openbox, i3WM, JVM, TWM, Trinity (continuation of KDE 3), Equinox (looks like Windows 95/98/2000), Project Looking Glass on Solaris (Sun Microsystems), CDE on Unix and on Debian, Windows from 3.0 'til Windows 10, MacOS(X) and a couple of desktops I probably forgot to mention.
So... I did use enough desktops to compare them with each other. GNOME 3 is not even in my top 20 anymore. ;-)
74 • @67 What he/she said (by TheTKS on 2018-05-31 00:08:08 GMT from United States)
My sentiments exactly, except Hoos probably wrote it better than I would have.
And I would have used Canadian spelling and idiom...
75 • Gathering system information using "dmesg" (by jg on 2018-05-31 07:26:07 GMT from United States)
You can gather hardware system information using "dmesg|more" at the command prompt. "dmesg" is piped with "more" so you can scroll page by page through the all of the hardware information collected when Linux boots.
76 • Windows 10 (by Jordan on 2018-06-01 11:57:24 GMT from United States)
@72 baloney (bologna if you're a purist). Moving from Windows to linux distros is an ongoing dynamic that begun in the early/mid 90s and continues through Windows 10.
77 • @76 (by OstroL on 2018-06-01 13:22:02 GMT from Poland)
>>Moving from Windows to linux distros is an ongoing dynamic that begun in the early/mid 90s and continues through Windows 10.<<
Users move around, but that doesn't mean Linux is becoming better than Windows. It had become better by keeping one OS and upgrading every few months. 1 OS, not 500. Its always easy to look after 1 OS, than fighting over a lot. In our Linux world, it looks like a car with different size tires in all four wheels.
Linux is doing well in Android, for it is One OS, owned by one company, and given free to anyone, who can install it on a device. It uses an old kernel too. and, millions people use Android, without knowing it is Linux. That company, carefully forgets to say that Android is Linux, and by doing so pushed Windows mobile out of the market, and kicks at Apple.
All Windows users have One OS, while we here have different ones, and we fight each other. The devs too, even though they don't openly say so. A divided society doesn't grow.
78 • OEM Distro (by CS on 2018-06-01 14:17:28 GMT from United States)
Anything but raw "ship it as soon as it builds" Ubuntu please.
It's reassuring to know that someone has put in an effort to ensure the OS won't burn out your BIOS (like Ubuntu) or randomly freeze every 24-48 hours (like Ubuntu "LTS" releases on every machine I've managed to try it on), and that the wireless adapter actually works out-of-the-box rather than relying on you to download it from some random person's dropbox account. These kinds of compatibility certifications serve a valuable purpose.
79 • not fair (by Tim Dowd on 2018-06-01 16:17:32 GMT from United States)
You're criticizing Ubuntu for stuff that happens on every OS.
In the decade I've been using Linux, I've come to the realization that the vast majority of problems I encounter (on any distro and any release) have something to do with the specific combination of release and computer I'm trying to use. Think of how many different versions of drivers get written, updated, frozen, compiled in different ways, given different default behavior, etc. It's amazing that any OS works as well as it does given all of the machines it runs on. And sometimes there are problems. Even Apple has problems with iOS updates and it builds both the machine and the operating system. The measure of an OS's strength is not being free from such bugs but how quickly they're fixed.
You can test software until the cows come home, but until it's in the wild, bugs for very specific hardware problems aren't going to show themselves. 17.10 was not an LTS release, it wasn't going to have a huge number of users installing it, and the bug only affected very specific computers. So it took some time to get discovered. After it was, it was promptly taken care of (initially by pulling all 17.10 images until they could be fixed) and a way of fixing the bios was released once they figured it out. On my non Lenovo laptop I went through the entire 17.10 life cycle with no significant issues.
Some adapters have bad Linux support. That's not Ubuntu's fault, or even Linux's fault, but the manufacturer who doesn't supply a good FOSS driver's fault The problem is no worse on Ubuntu than any other distro. Just get a $12 wifi dongle and forget about the useless adapter.
In the context of a builder selling a Linux laptop, presumably they would not be shipping a wifi adapter without Linux support. So what you're talking about is a non issue.
80 • Opinion Poll--Custom Linux Development, and Vendor Installation. (by R. Cain on 2018-06-01 16:23:18 GMT from United States)
As of 1 June, 2018, only 12 % of poll respondents say, "I prefer the custom distro option."
Notice what the respondents are implicitly ALSO saying: "i prefer SOME custom distro option," Not phrasing the question this way is a case of 'biasing the poll' (a less charitable characterization is "poisoning the well.")
Here's another case of 'biasing the poll' (or 'leading the respondent', most prevalent in political polls)--
[From the poll description]: "...Having a custom distribution like this lets the OEM better control the user experience, tailoring the desktop and drivers to match their hardware..."
1. WHAT?! This sounds as if it came straight out of Microsoft's play-book, and it did. Microsoft was the first entity to burn the phrase "user experience" into the collective conscious and subconscious with non-stop, massively blatant overuse.
2. This is specifically what I DON'T want from a distribution; if an OEM "...control[s] the...desktop and drivers to match their hardware"..., does it not logically follow that that same hardware will be less than general-purpose enough for a user to install ANY OTHER DISTRIBUTION on?
Ever hear of Microsoft's attempt to convince all of us of the desirability of those all-encompassing universal panaceas--which are, arguably, one of the worst things to ever happen to easy Linux adoption--called UEFI and Secure Boot, System76? DistroWatch?
Same exact thing with "...lets the OEM better control the user experience...".
Not on my watch.
81 • @77 Ostrol: (by dragonmouth on 2018-06-01 19:29:28 GMT from United States)
You have the right industry but the wrong analogy. Linux is precisely like the auto industry. Numerous manufacturers, each with numerous models. They all fight each other for a slice of the pie but, overall, they are doing quite well. In your opinion, should we have only one car maker with only one model so we can have "unity" in the car industry?
82 • Linux OS Choices (by Dude on 2018-06-02 02:55:11 GMT from Bahrain)
There are hundreds of Linux distros. The only ones that matter for Linux certifications are Debian and Red Hat, and possibly OpenSuSE. Of course Ubuntu can be used for study instead of Debian, and Fedora or CentOS instead of Red Hat. I plan to take the LPIC Level 1 Linux certification soon. So, I run Debian and Fedora virtual machines with VirtualBox to study. Wish me luck!
83 • @81 (by OstroL on 2018-06-02 06:23:00 GMT from Poland)
Not sure, whether we should have one OS in Linux. Android is such an OS, which actually troubles Linux. Android is not Linux friendly. But, being only OS in that section, it has gained the market, beat MS, Apple and everyone else.
Its nice to have many distros, just play with them, but that way, Linux won't take the market from either MS or Apple. Maybe someday, someone would come with another Android-like desktop Linux and take the market. But, with the infighting that might never happen.
84 • #77 OstrolL (by George on 2018-06-02 19:12:31 GMT from United States)
Important truth in your post. Certain detail needs work, or perhaps it's my interpretation. +1 for the guts to say it here, and saying it well.
"better" is such a subjective concept. I must admit that it has been a while since I've been asked to save data from a Windows desktop PC that stopped booting. But Windows users have done plenty of complaining after Windows 7, and have pretty much rejected some MS products.
Of course Windows is not One OS in the sense that all versions are interchangable. At any point in time there are several supported versions that have their own capabilities and limitations. MS does offer some choice, but MS makes sure that choices don't interfere with success.
It's been pretty well established that developers will fight each other. Not unique to Linux. The bummer is the extent and depth of the failure to cooperate in the Linux desktop realm. If *success* is defined in terms of providing open source software to the great bulk of desktop users, the factions here can't cooperate enough to succeed even when MS makes mistakes.
85 • Linux-on-Desktop SIMPLIFIED for devs & fanboys (by Willie Buck Merle on 2018-06-02 19:42:55 GMT from United States)
Actually not much to do with the way a DE looks or anything, ur not even there yet don't worry. The hurdle is completely HW. Eliminate these four replies:
~ The Driver doesn't work... yet
~ The Driver is crippled, forever.
~ There is to be no Driver.
~ There actually IS a Driver, now figure out how to install it yourself with one of these 17 buggy package managers.
And majority OS adoption will follow. Most people who actually use computers want capability over creed.
86 • Ubuntu fail! or Why Pop! OS is a good proposition (by cuvtixo on 2018-06-02 23:44:23 GMT from United States)
System76 computers used to come with Ubuntu, but Canonical has made several bad decisions, including Unity, and poor support of Nvidia video. And it effects most Ubuntu derivatives, too. I'm having issues with Mint and Nvidia, and trying out Pop! for this reason. It sounds nice to give maximum "choices," but is it really so restrictive when you can install another linux distro for free alongside Pop! or reinstall Pop! for free? Not to mention VirtualBox? Chromebooks are much more difficult to install linux on (Gallium tries, Crouton really doesn't cut it), yet are popular and successful enough to make critics sound a little silly. The ideologues come out of the woodwork on linux polls like this, but as a practical matter, real choice is when the customer can use their PC out of the box, with major software like VLC pre-installed, OR install their own (plug for OSDisc here), or even "roll their own." So users have a choice of NOT figuring out what Windows alternative to install or try to build upon. This is what Ubuntu attempted to be, the easy default choice, and in System76's specific case, has failed to follow through. And the person who says Windows is a single unified OS is delusional. Wasn't true when DOS, Win9x, and NT were simultaneously in use, and still today, now Windows that 10 is radically, but stealthily, different from Win7,8, and 8.1 in ownership and privacy rights. "One OS" is the fantasy they sell, not the actual situation. #86. here is quite correct, and that's why Pop! is good and preferring "no OS' is a silly bragging point and not a reasonable option for PC sellers. Finally #82., you're forgetting Kali. Offensive Security Ltd. is quite deliberately pursuing a strategy of being a certification platform for Computer security/"ethical hackers". Which I'm afraid makes for counterproductive decisions. Kali on WSL on Win10? C'mon.
87 • One OS or not... (by OstroL on 2018-06-03 07:33:11 GMT from Poland)
For the users, it is a One OS. I know people, who still use XP, even Vista, and don't want to change to the newer release, for what they want works. They have old Office that works, and newer web browsers can be installed. And, talking about Office, that's the success MS achieved, not really the OS. People all over the world needs Office. That was what MS marketed all the time.
88 • @83 Ostrol: (by dragonmouth on 2018-06-03 14:10:05 GMT from United States)
"Linux won't take the market from either MS or Apple"
WHO decreed that Linux MUST take the market from MS or Apple??? SUSE, Red Hat, even Canonical are doing quite well without owning the market.
Why are you so insistent the there must be ONLY one Linux? Who is going to be in charge of it? Who is going to control its development? Windows has always been controlled by one entity. Where has that gotten us? Having one Linux is like having one automobile manufacturer. Out of competition comes progress. If there was no Apple and Linux, MS would still be selling Win 95 or ME. Monopoly stifles innovation. As General George Patton was wont to say "If everybody is thinking the same way, then nobody is thinking." If everybody is using the same O/S, then there is no incentive to improve it.
While I am against ONE AND ONLY Linux that you are advocating, I would like to see a reduction in the number of "me too" copycat distros. Why do we need 50 or 75 Ubuntu-based distros which differ from each other only minimally? Now people are starting to churn out Arch knock offs. Arch may be a great distro but do we need as many versions as there are for Ubuntu? There comes a point of diminishing returns when nothing new is being added. Only the old pieces being re-arranged.
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|• Issue 1040 (2023-10-09): CROWZ 5.0, changing the location of default directories, Linux Mint updates its Edge edition, Murena crowdfunding new privacy phone, Debian publishes new install media|
|• Issue 1039 (2023-10-02): Zenwalk Current, finding the duration of media files, Peppermint OS tries out new edition, COSMIC gains new features, Canonical reports on security incident in Snap store|
|• Issue 1038 (2023-09-25): Mageia 9, trouble-shooting launchers, running desktop Linux in the cloud, New documentation for Nix, Linux phasing out ReiserFS, GNU celebrates 40 years|
|• Issue 1037 (2023-09-18): Bodhi Linux 7.0.0, finding specific distros and unified package managemnt, Zevenet replaced by two new forks, openSUSE introduces Slowroll branch, Fedora considering dropping Plasma X11 session|
|• Issue 1036 (2023-09-11): SDesk 2023.08.12, hiding command line passwords, openSUSE shares contributor survery results, Ubuntu plans seamless disk encryption, GNOME 45 to break extension compatibility|
|• Issue 1035 (2023-09-04): Debian GNU/Hurd 2023, PCLinuxOS 2023.07, do home users need a firewall, AlmaLinux introduces new repositories, Rocky Linux commits to RHEL compatibility, NetBSD machine runs unattended for nine years, Armbian runs wallpaper contest|
|• Issue 1034 (2023-08-28): Void 20230628, types of memory usage, FreeBSD receives port of Linux NVIDIA driver, Fedora plans improved theme handling for Qt applications, Canonical's plans for Ubuntu|
|• Issue 1033 (2023-08-21): MiniOS 20230606, system user accounts, how Red Hat clones are moving forward, Haiku improves WINE performance, Debian turns 30|
|• Issue 1032 (2023-08-14): MX Linux 23, positioning new windows on the desktop, Linux Containers adopts LXD fork, Oracle, SUSE, and CIQ form OpenELA|
|• Issue 1031 (2023-08-07): Peppermint OS 2023-07-01, preventing a file from being changed, Asahi Linux partners with Fedora, Linux Mint plans new releases|
|• Issue 1030 (2023-07-31): Solus 4.4, Linux Mint 21.2, Debian introduces RISC-V support, Ubuntu patches custom kernel bugs, FreeBSD imports OpenSSL 3|
|• Issue 1029 (2023-07-24): Running Murena on the Fairphone 4, Flatpak vs Snap sandboxing technologies, Redox OS plans to borrow Linux drivers to expand hardware support, Debian updates Bookworm media|
|• Issue 1028 (2023-07-17): KDE Connect; Oracle, SUSE, and AlmaLinux repsond to Red Hat's source code policy change, KaOS issues media fix, Slackware turns 30; security and immutable distributions|
|• Issue 1027 (2023-07-10): Crystal Linux 2023-03-16, StartOS (embassyOS 0.3.4.2), changing options on a mounted filesystem, Murena launches Fairphone 4 in North America, Fedora debates telemetry for desktop team|
|• Issue 1026 (2023-07-03): Kumander Linux 1.0, Red Hat changing its approach to sharing source code, TrueNAS offers SMB Multichannel, Zorin OS introduces upgrade utility|
|• Issue 1025 (2023-06-26): KaOS with Plasma 6, information which can leak from desktop environments, Red Hat closes door on sharing RHEL source code, SUSE introduces new security features|
|• Issue 1024 (2023-06-19): Debian 12, a safer way to use dd, Debian releases GNU/Hurd 2023, Ubuntu 22.10 nears its end of life, FreeBSD turns 30|
|• Issue 1023 (2023-06-12): openSUSE 15.5 Leap, the differences between independent distributions, openSUSE lengthens Leap life, Murena offers new phone for North America|
|• Issue 1022 (2023-06-05): GetFreeOS 2023.05.01, Slint 15.0-3, Liya N4Si, cleaning up crowded directories, Ubuntu plans Snap-based variant, Red Hat dropping LireOffice RPM packages|
|• Issue 1021 (2023-05-29): rlxos GNU/Linux, colours in command line output, an overview of Void's unique features, how to use awk, Microsoft publishes a Linux distro|
|• Issue 1020 (2023-05-22): UBports 20.04, finding another machine's IP address, finding distros with a specific kernel, Debian prepares for Bookworm|
|• Issue 1019 (2023-05-15): Rhino Linux (Beta), checking which applications reply on a package, NethServer reborn, System76 improving application responsiveness|
|• Issue 1018 (2023-05-08): Fedora 38, finding relevant manual pages, merging audio files, Fedora plans new immutable edition, Mint works to fix Secure Boot issues|
|• Issue 1017 (2023-05-01): Xubuntu 23.04, Debian elects Project Leaders and updates media, systemd to speed up restarts, Guix System offering ground-up source builds, where package managers install files|
|• Issue 1016 (2023-04-24): Qubes OS 4.1.2, tracking bandwidth usage, Solus resuming development, FreeBSD publishes status report, KaOS offers preview of Plasma 6|
|• Issue 1015 (2023-04-17): Manjaro Linux 22.0, Trisquel GNU/Linux 11.0, Arch Linux powering PINE64 tablets, Ubuntu offering live patching on HWE kernels, gaining compression on ex4|
|• Issue 1014 (2023-04-10): Quick looks at carbonOS, LibreELEC, and Kodi, Mint polishes themes, Fedora rolls out more encryption plans, elementary OS improves sideloading experience|
|• Issue 1013 (2023-04-03): Alpine Linux 3.17.2, printing manual pages, Ubuntu Cinnamon becomes official flavour, Endeavour OS plans for new installer, HardenedBSD plans for outage|
|• Issue 1012 (2023-03-27): siduction 22.1.1, protecting privacy from proprietary applications, GNOME team shares new features, Canonical updates Ubuntu 20.04, politics and the Linux kernel|
|• Issue 1011 (2023-03-20): Serpent OS, Security Onion 2.3, Gentoo Live, replacing the scp utility, openSUSE sees surge in downloads, Debian runs elction with one candidate|
|• Issue 1010 (2023-03-13): blendOS 2023.01.26, keeping track of which files a package installs, improved network widget coming to elementary OS, Vanilla OS changes its base distro|
|• Issue 1009 (2023-03-06): Nemo Mobile and the PinePhone, matching the performance of one distro on another, Linux Mint adds performance boosts and security, custom Ubuntu and Debian builds through Cubic|
|• Issue 1008 (2023-02-27): elementary OS 7.0, the benefits of boot environments, Purism offers lapdock for Librem 5, Ubuntu community flavours directed to drop Flatpak support for Snap|
|• Issue 1007 (2023-02-20): helloSystem 0.8.0, underrated distributions, Solus team working to repair their website, SUSE testing Micro edition, Canonical publishes real-time edition of Ubuntu 22.04|
|• Issue 1006 (2023-02-13): Playing music with UBports on a PinePhone, quick command line and shell scripting questions, Fedora expands third-party software support, Vanilla OS adds Nix package support|
|• Issue 1005 (2023-02-06): NuTyX 22.12.0 running CDE, user identification numbers, Pop!_OS shares COSMIC progress, Mint makes keyboard and mouse options more accessible|
|• Issue 1004 (2023-01-30): OpenMandriva ROME, checking the health of a disk, Debian adopting OpenSnitch, FreeBSD publishes status report|
|• Issue 1003 (2023-01-23): risiOS 37, mixing package types, Fedora seeks installer feedback, Sparky offers easier persistence with USB writer|
|• Issue 1002 (2023-01-16): Vanilla OS 22.10, Nobara Project 37, verifying torrent downloads, Haiku improvements, HAMMER2 being ports to NetBSD|
|• Issue 1001 (2023-01-09): Arch Linux, Ubuntu tests new system installer, porting KDE software to OpenBSD, verifying files copied properly|
|• Issue 1000 (2023-01-02): Our favourite projects of all time, Fedora trying out unified kernel images and trying to speed up shutdowns, Slackware tests new kernel, detecting what is taking up disk space|
|• Issue 999 (2022-12-19): Favourite distributions of 2022, Fedora plans Budgie spin, UBports releasing security patches for 16.04, Haiku working on new ports|
|• Issue 998 (2022-12-12): OpenBSD 7.2, Asahi Linux enages video hardware acceleration on Apple ARM computers, Manjaro drops proprietary codecs from Mesa package|
|• Issue 997 (2022-12-05): CachyOS 221023 and AgarimOS, working with filenames which contain special characters, elementary OS team fixes delta updates, new features coming to Xfce|
|• Issue 996 (2022-11-28): Void 20221001, remotely shutting down a machine, complex aliases, Fedora tests new web-based installer, Refox OS running on real hardware|
|• Issue 995 (2022-11-21): Fedora 37, swap files vs swap partitions, Unity running on Arch, UBports seeks testers, Murena adds support for more devices|
|• Issue 994 (2022-11-14): Redcore Linux 2201, changing the terminal font size, Fedora plans Phosh spin, openSUSE publishes on-line manual pages, disabling Snap auto-updates|
|• Issue 993 (2022-11-07): Static Linux, working with just a kernel, Mint streamlines Flatpak management, updates coming to elementary OS|
|• Full list of all issues|
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View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.